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Kittygalore
December 12th 06, 06:13 PM
Hello! I've observed 2 weird behaviors on the part of 2 of my 3 cats
recently and have been researching seizures on the Net to compare and
contrast. Just wondering if anybody else has seen similar:
1. My 15 year old cat with chronic renal failure jumped up on my desk
yesterday while I was working. Then she stood there, looking dazed,
unresponsive to her name, one paw held in the air as if reaching for
something; she took a stumbling step sideways and lifted the other paw;
turned and did this again. I thought she was dying and took her into my
arms. In a minute or two she was clearly back to normal. She takes
medicine for hyperthyroidism, Calcitriol too, and also I give her sub-Q
fluids twice a week. I thought perhaps dehydration or weird blood
levels, momentarily, of medications might just have made her woozy, or
do cats have petit mal seizures like some small kids do?
2. Twice in her year-long life, one of my two young cats has been
observed to paw at her face while yowling and twisting sideways,
clearly distressed; this lasted less than 30 seconds each time. The
first time it happened when the hem of my bathrobe brushed against her
face; the second time it was when she was leaping at the fringe of a
blanket next to me as I sat on the couch. I thought perhaps each time
that she got a thread in her mouth or something and was full of angst
about removing it--but it was odd looking, not like other cats I've
seen trying to get something off the face.

Neither cat's episodes involved the all-out strangeness of any seizures
I've seen described on the Net or in my books. Thoughts? All cats are
due in soon for their check-ups so of course I"ll ask the vet, too!
Thanks.

December 12th 06, 09:30 PM
"Kittygalore" > wrote:

>Hello! I've observed 2 weird behaviors on the part of 2 of my 3 cats
>recently and have been researching seizures on the Net to compare and
>contrast. Just wondering if anybody else has seen similar:
>1. My 15 year old cat with chronic renal failure jumped up on my desk
>yesterday while I was working. Then she stood there, looking dazed,
>unresponsive to her name, one paw held in the air as if reaching for
>something; she took a stumbling step sideways and lifted the other paw;
>turned and did this again. I thought she was dying and took her into my
>arms. In a minute or two she was clearly back to normal. She takes
>medicine for hyperthyroidism, Calcitriol too, and also I give her sub-Q
>fluids twice a week. I thought perhaps dehydration or weird blood
>levels, momentarily, of medications might just have made her woozy, or
>do cats have petit mal seizures like some small kids do?
>2. Twice in her year-long life, one of my two young cats has been
>observed to paw at her face while yowling and twisting sideways,
>clearly distressed; this lasted less than 30 seconds each time. The
>first time it happened when the hem of my bathrobe brushed against her
>face; the second time it was when she was leaping at the fringe of a
>blanket next to me as I sat on the couch. I thought perhaps each time
>that she got a thread in her mouth or something and was full of angst
>about removing it--but it was odd looking, not like other cats I've
>seen trying to get something off the face.
>
>Neither cat's episodes involved the all-out strangeness of any seizures
>I've seen described on the Net or in my books. Thoughts? All cats are
>due in soon for their check-ups so of course I"ll ask the vet, too!
>Thanks.


My 6yr old just had a probable seizure last week. One minute he was
just standing there and then he starting pawing his face and then
started circling with his left front leg sagging and his head fallen
down to the outside. He did this twice and fell down. When I tried to
approach him he tried to get away with clearly no ability to use his
left leg. I scooped him up and immediately went to the vet.

After a quick appraisal we then had wait our turn for about 20
minutes. When we got in the examining room I guess about an hour had
passed since the episode and he seemed OK.

After a full physical and blood panel it was determined it wasn't a
stroke and apparently seizures don't leave any tell tales.

He also has done the pawing at the face showing some distress in the
past so I guess our cats have something in common with whatever this
is.

-mhd

cybercat
December 12th 06, 10:09 PM
"Kittygalore" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hello! I've observed 2 weird behaviors on the part of 2 of my 3 cats
> recently and have been researching seizures on the Net to compare and
> contrast. Just wondering if anybody else has seen similar:
> 1. My 15 year old cat with chronic renal failure jumped up on my desk
> yesterday while I was working. Then she stood there, looking dazed,
> unresponsive to her name, one paw held in the air as if reaching for
> something; she took a stumbling step sideways and lifted the other paw;
> turned and did this again. I thought she was dying and took her into my
> arms. In a minute or two she was clearly back to normal. She takes
> medicine for hyperthyroidism, Calcitriol too, and also I give her sub-Q
> fluids twice a week. I thought perhaps dehydration or weird blood
> levels, momentarily, of medications might just have made her woozy

Shortly after we began treating our cat for hypethyroid that had gone
undiagnosed for a while, she began having scary little fits kind of like
this. What she did was kind of list to one side and begin crawling in
a circle, and she would not respond to her name.

My vet said "maybe she is having little fainting spells." He thought
she had arrythmia because, as you probably know, hyperT causes
a very fast heart rate, that, over time may cause the heart to become
unstable. He suggested putting her on Propanolol--a beta blocker--
to stabilize her heart rate.

As long as we keep her on this, she has NO fits. I tried to take
her off it once and she immediately had one. I really think you
ought to bring this up to your vet. You too, h+ch. The vet who
treated her is Dr. Stephen Driscoll at Six Forks Animal Hospital
in Raleigh, NC. (919.847-5854

We also had an ultrasound of her heart to make sure there was
no structural damage. The theory is, she had an elevated heart
rate long enough for it to cause an unstable heart rate. She was
10 when diagnosed with hyperT, 11 when she started having fits,
and she is 12 now.

It was our fault that she was undiagnosed for so long. We took her
for shots and such, but missed the signs of hyperT--yowling, being
hyper vigilant--because we thought it was just her very funny
personality. (Plus, she was obese and hyperT cats are usually
skinny. The vet once noted her fast heart rate but because she
was so fat (not our fault! We did not do that to her!) he thought
she just had white coat anxiety.

December 13th 06, 12:59 AM
"cybercat" > wrote:

>Shortly after we began treating our cat for hypethyroid that had gone
>undiagnosed for a while, she began having scary little fits kind of
>like this. What she did was kind of list to one side and begin
>crawling in a circle, and she would not respond to her name

>My vet said "maybe she is having little fainting spells." He thought
>she had arrythmia because, as you probably know, hyperT causes
>a very fast heart rate, that, over time may cause the heart to become
>unstable. He suggested putting her on Propanolol--a beta blocker--
>to stabilize her heart rate.
>
>As long as we keep her on this, she has NO fits. I tried to take
>her off it once and she immediately had one. I really think you
>ought to bring this up to your vet. You too, h+ch. The vet who
>treated her is Dr. Stephen Driscoll at Six Forks Animal Hospital
>in Raleigh, NC. (919.847-5854

Sounds like we all have the same thing going on - at least the way it
manifests itself.

One hour after the spell, Gus who even though was scared ****less by
being at a vet, had a normal heart rate and according to the vet a
normal *sounding* heart. He spent a lot of time moving the stethoscope
around and listening to his heart. All the blood tests came back ok
except for a pre-existing higher than normal ALT.

I'll run what you said by my vet but I'll imagine he'll fall back on
his observation that the heart seemed normal.

Do you remember if she crawled her circles in the direction of the
listing side or away? My vet thought was important to know.

-mhd

2fingah
December 13th 06, 01:03 AM
wrote:

> After a full physical and blood panel it was determined it wasn't a
> stroke and apparently seizures don't leave any tell tales.

how much did this set you back?

about seizures, I think you can reverse engineer it...
alot of excitement can trigger a seizure

an elongated period of something new and taxing

whatever it is...

after everything settles down... then comes the seizure

the body waits... the body enduces... the body endures
it's growth, it's expansion, control, or reaching

you could further look for a slightly smarter more alert cat

cybercat
December 13th 06, 01:09 AM
> wrote
> Sounds like we all have the same thing going on - at least the way it
> manifests itself.
>
> One hour after the spell, Gus who even though was scared ****less by
> being at a vet, had a normal heart rate and according to the vet a
> normal *sounding* heart. He spent a lot of time moving the stethoscope
> around and listening to his heart. All the blood tests came back ok
> except for a pre-existing higher than normal ALT.

Boo also has a normal sounding heart and a normal looking heart,
according to the ultrasound. And, though she was fat, she showed
no signs of heart disease. With abnormal heart rhythms, it appears
that the cat has to be having the episode for the vet to hear it. In
other words, though her heart rate was 300bpm before being
treated with Tapazole, it had never sounded irregular. She began
having the fits after the hyperT was corrected. And to this day,
nobody has ever heard an abnormal heart rate in this cat. (I
bought a stethoscope, to make sure her hr stays at about 160-180.
I have to be QUICK though because this cat begins to purr when
you touch her!) However--it has to be arrythmia/fibrillation, because
once on the propanolol, she has never had another episode.

> I'll run what you said by my vet but I'll imagine he'll fall back on
> his observation that the heart seemed normal.

Well, if Gus keeps having fits, you might press your vet into letting
you try it. Those fits terrify me. And, just like your Gus, Boo is
perfectly normal after.

> Do you remember if she crawled her circles in the direction of the
> listing side or away? My vet thought was important to know.
>

She crawled in the direction of the listing side. Did he say why this is
important?



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Lynne
December 13th 06, 01:44 AM
on Wed, 13 Dec 2006 01:09:26 GMT, "cybercat" > wrote:

> once on the propanolol, she has never had another episode.
>

actually, Propanolol has been shown to act as an anticonvulsant in certain
types of seizures in rats, so that might explain it.

--
Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

December 13th 06, 05:50 AM
"cybercat" > wrote:

>Boo also has a normal sounding heart and a normal looking heart,
>according to the ultrasound. And, though she was fat, she showed
>no signs of heart disease. With abnormal heart rhythms, it appears
>that the cat has to be having the episode for the vet to hear it. In
>other words, though her heart rate was 300bpm before being
>treated with Tapazole,

What was her heart rate when she had the Seizure? Gus was 170.

>it had never sounded irregular. She began
>having the fits after the hyperT was corrected. And to this day,
>nobody has ever heard an abnormal heart rate in this cat. (I
>bought a stethoscope, to make sure her hr stays at about 160-180.
>I have to be QUICK though because this cat begins to purr when
>you touch her!) However--it has to be arrythmia/fibrillation, because
>once on the propanolol, she has never had another episode.
>
>> I'll run what you said by my vet but I'll imagine he'll fall back on
>> his observation that the heart seemed normal.
>
>Well, if Gus keeps having fits, you might press your vet into letting
>you try it. Those fits terrify me. And, just like your Gus, Boo is
>perfectly normal after.

So far only one that I have observed but if another one happens I'll
definitely look into the arrhythmia/fibrillation problem.

>> Do you remember if she crawled her circles in the direction of the
>> listing side or away? My vet thought was important to know.

>She crawled in the direction of the listing side. Did he say why this is
>important?

Would you believe even though I was very curious about that, I let him
finish without interrupting him and then he left the room to take the
blood samples. Kicked myself for forgetting and forgot again when he
called in the morning to fax the blood test results.

BTW, Gus went the opposite direction which looked really weird from a
balance perspective. It looked like he was really fighting it.

-mhd

December 13th 06, 06:05 AM
"2fingah" > wrote:

>
wrote:
>
>> After a full physical and blood panel it was determined it wasn't a
>> stroke and apparently seizures don't leave any tell tales.
>
>how much did this set you back?

$58 for the examination
$138 for the blood panel
11.76 taxes
207.76 total.
>
>about seizures, I think you can reverse engineer it...
>alot of excitement can trigger a seizure
>an elongated period of something new and taxing
>whatever it is...
>after everything settles down... then comes the seizure

Gus has a flat on the floor scratching box which is corrugated
cardboard in a cardboard frame where he always has a major happy dance
when his dinner is being prepared (opening a can). It was right after
that he had his seizure so yeah excitement may be a factor.

-mhd

cybercat
December 13th 06, 03:51 PM
> wrote in message
...
> "cybercat" > wrote:
>
> What was her heart rate when she had the Seizure? Gus was 170.

It was about 180 just after. She had her last one when she was
waiting to be fed, so she was excited, lol. (She SINGS to me while
I open the can. Next thing I know, she is not responding to her name
and circling slowly, little tiny steps, listing to one side. Now that I
really think about it, I am just not sure which side she crawled
towards.
>
>>
>>Well, if Gus keeps having fits, you might press your vet into letting
>>you try it. Those fits terrify me. And, just like your Gus, Boo is
>>perfectly normal after.
>
> So far only one that I have observed but if another one happens I'll
> definitely look into the arrhythmia/fibrillation problem.

Maybe you are right and my vet is wrong, and what Boo had was
a little seizure. (She has had four total that we have seen.) Lynne
said that propanolol acts as an anti-seizure medicine, too. All I
know is that is stops the fits.
>
>>She crawled in the direction of the listing side. Did he say why this is
>>important?
>
> Would you believe even though I was very curious about that, I let him
> finish without interrupting him and then he left the room to take the
> blood samples. Kicked myself for forgetting and forgot again when he
> called in the morning to fax the blood test results.

I do stuff like that all the time. Maybe next time you can ask him, or we
can find somethign online.

>
> BTW, Gus went the opposite direction which looked really weird from a
> balance perspective. It looked like he was really fighting it.
>

Poor boy. I really thought Boo was a goner, it just looks like something
major is wrong. But she has never seemed healthier than now, having
been on Tapazole and propanolol for a year and having lost about 9
pounds, too!

Good luck with Gus. Please share whatever you find out and I will too.
Thanks.

Lynne
December 13th 06, 04:01 PM
on Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:51:02 GMT, "cybercat" > wrote:

> Lynne
> said that propanolol acts as an anti-seizure medicine, too. All I
> know is that is stops the fits.

I don't think it's labeled for that use (yet, and I might be wrong--I
haven't looked into it for a year or so), but it's definitely being
investigated and has been shown consistently in studies to act as an
anticonvulsant. So that's a bonus for your kitty! Your vet may not be
aware, but there is plenty of documentation in the medical literature about
it.

What you are both describing can't be attributed to heart arrythmias.
Definitely sounds like siezures, and even if the vet doesn't observe them,
they still need to be addressed. Though in your case, Cybercat, don't
change a thing now! Just be aware of potential drug interactions with the
Propanolol and other medications. There are quite a few. I would leave
her on the Propanolol and find a different drug that isn't contraindicated
with Propanolol for any future problems she might have.

I am not a vet, so discuss this with yours! /end disclaimer

--
Lynne

cybercat
December 13th 06, 04:35 PM
"Lynne" > wrote
>
> I don't think it's labeled for that use (yet, and I might be wrong--I
> haven't looked into it for a year or so), but it's definitely being
> investigated and has been shown consistently in studies to act as an
> anticonvulsant. So that's a bonus for your kitty! Your vet may not be
> aware, but there is plenty of documentation in the medical literature
> about
> it.
>
> What you are both describing can't be attributed to heart arrythmias.
> Definitely sounds like siezures, and even if the vet doesn't observe them,
> they still need to be addressed. Though in your case, Cybercat, don't
> change a thing now! Just be aware of potential drug interactions with the
> Propanolol and other medications. There are quite a few. I would leave
> her on the Propanolol and find a different drug that isn't contraindicated
> with Propanolol for any future problems she might have.
>
> I am not a vet, so discuss this with yours! /end disclaimer
>
> --

Thanks, Lynne.

December 13th 06, 05:17 PM
"cybercat" > wrote:

>It was about 180 just after. She had her last one when she was
>waiting to be fed, so she was excited, lol. (She SINGS to me while
>I open the can. Next thing I know, she is not responding to her name
>and circling slowly, little tiny steps, listing to one side.

LOL, Gus is just like that. Gus has a scratching box which sits flat
on the floor made of corrugated cardboard in a cardboard frame. He
always has a major happy dance when his dinner is being prepared
(opening a can). Gets his front shoulders really working like he was
digging to China. It was right after that he had his seizure as well.

-mhd

cybercat
December 13th 06, 10:21 PM
> wrote in message
...
> "cybercat" > wrote:
>
>>It was about 180 just after. She had her last one when she was
>>waiting to be fed, so she was excited, lol. (She SINGS to me while
>>I open the can. Next thing I know, she is not responding to her name
>>and circling slowly, little tiny steps, listing to one side.
>
> LOL, Gus is just like that. Gus has a scratching box which sits flat
> on the floor made of corrugated cardboard in a cardboard frame. He
> always has a major happy dance when his dinner is being prepared
> (opening a can). Gets his front shoulders really working like he was
> digging to China.
>

So cute. :) Have you tried the Alpine Scratcher? Gracie used to use the
flat ones, but likes this one so much better. When I am not where I can
get refills I buy the regular flat scratcher and attach it to the slanted
Alpine
Scratcher, and she likes this even better because it is wider. She has two,
in our bedroom. She is more OCD than cats normally are (and they all
seem to be to one degree or another) so has these routines. When I stir
she immediately rises from where ever she is, "says hello" with some
chirps, then does what your Gus does first to one scratcher and then
to the other. When my husband stirs, she hides, but that is only because
she is playing hard to get, the little coquette. She must act like he is the
Big Bad Wolf before she swoons into submission and allows him to
dissolve her reservations in a petting fest. :)

>It was right after that he had his seizure as well.

Hmm. It does seem that excitement does it. Does Gus have any other
conditions?

Ryan Robbins
December 13th 06, 10:32 PM
"Kittygalore" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hello! I've observed 2 weird behaviors on the part of 2 of my 3 cats
> recently and have been researching seizures on the Net to compare and
> contrast. Just wondering if anybody else has seen similar:
> 1. My 15 year old cat with chronic renal failure jumped up on my desk
> yesterday while I was working. Then she stood there, looking dazed,
> unresponsive to her name, one paw held in the air as if reaching for
> something; she took a stumbling step sideways and lifted the other paw;
> turned and did this again. I thought she was dying and took her into my
> arms. In a minute or two she was clearly back to normal. She takes
> medicine for hyperthyroidism, Calcitriol too, and also I give her sub-Q
> fluids twice a week. I thought perhaps dehydration or weird blood
> levels, momentarily, of medications might just have made her woozy, or
> do cats have petit mal seizures like some small kids do?

This sounds like a seizure. My Sara, who was diagnosed with kidney failure
last November, died in April. A month before she died she had a seizure
after we came in from a walk outside. She got to the top of the stairs and
just stopped in her tracks. I said her name a couple of times and nudged her
forward a bit, and she wavered and then fell down with a glassy look in her
eyes. She then peed. I thought she was dying right there. I held her and
talked to her. About a minute later, I picked her up and she walked into the
apartment as though nothing had happened and drank her water had some
treats. My vet said Sara probably had no memory of the seizure.

Around that time, Sara began to develop anemia, so that may have played a
role.

2fingah
December 14th 06, 04:01 AM
wrote:

> LOL, Gus is just like that. Gus has a scratching box which sits flat
> on the floor made of corrugated cardboard in a cardboard frame. He
> always has a major happy dance when his dinner is being prepared
> (opening a can). Gets his front shoulders really working like he was
> digging to China. It was right after that he had his seizure as well.
>
> -mhd

and Gus is 6 years old
no history of seizures

you've probably told if he's on meds or not...

odd really.. that's not old
is he real spoiled, is he muscular.. or is he of the tender sort

my cats don't dance for food, they wrestle the can with me