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Chris
December 14th 06, 09:17 AM
Is there a way to determine the correct weight for a cat?

This is a large long-haired cat, taken over as a stray.
The hair is so long that you can't get near enough to its body to see if
you can feel its ribs.

With humans you can use BMI - but is there a cat equivalent?

It weighs 6.1 kg - but has enormous paws - which makes me think it
probably should be big.

Is there a reliable way of knowing for certain?
--
Chris

December 14th 06, 12:30 PM
Your vet should be able to tell you. My guy is approx 9lbs and the vet
said he is a bit overweight. I can feel his spine, but not his ribs.

Good Luck

Danielle

On Dec 14, 4:17 am, Chris ]> wrote:
> Is there a way to determine the correct weight for a cat?
>
> This is a large long-haired cat, taken over as a stray.
> The hair is so long that you can't get near enough to its body to see if
> you can feel its ribs.
>
> With humans you can use BMI - but is there a cat equivalent?
>
> It weighs 6.1 kg - but has enormous paws - which makes me think it
> probably should be big.
>
> Is there a reliable way of knowing for certain?
> --
> Chris

Phil P.
December 14th 06, 12:47 PM
"Chris" ]> wrote in message
]...
> Is there a way to determine the correct weight for a cat?
>
> This is a large long-haired cat, taken over as a stray.
> The hair is so long that you can't get near enough to its body to see if
> you can feel its ribs.
>
> With humans you can use BMI - but is there a cat equivalent?
>
> It weighs 6.1 kg - but has enormous paws - which makes me think it
> probably should be big.
>
> Is there a reliable way of knowing for certain?

See if this helps:

http://maxshouse.com/nutrition/Body_Scoring_System-Chart.jpg

Phil

sheelagh
December 14th 06, 01:54 PM
Phil P. wrote:

>
> See if this helps:
>
> http://maxshouse.com/nutrition/Body_Scoring_System-Chart.jpg
>
> Phil
Thanks Phil. Someone asked me the same question a few days, so I found
it very interesting.You are full of information you know!
S.

cybercat
December 14th 06, 04:48 PM
"Chris" ]> wrote in message
]...
> Is there a way to determine the correct weight for a cat?
>
> This is a large long-haired cat, taken over as a stray.
> The hair is so long that you can't get near enough to its body to see if
> you can feel its ribs.
>
> With humans you can use BMI - but is there a cat equivalent?
>
> It weighs 6.1 kg - but has enormous paws - which makes me think it
> probably should be big.
>
> Is there a reliable way of knowing for certain?
> --

Ask your vet to be sure. Also, to make sure he is not too thin,
when you pet his back, you should be able to feel his backbone
but not the individual vertebrae.

Lynne
December 14th 06, 05:41 PM
on Thu, 14 Dec 2006 16:48:25 GMT, "cybercat" > wrote:

> Ask your vet to be sure. Also, to make sure he is not too thin,
> when you pet his back, you should be able to feel his backbone
> but not the individual vertebrae.

Levi is WAY too skinny, despite eating like a pig (and definitely being
parasite free). I can SEE his vertibrae. Otherwise he looks great - very
bright eyes, soft, silky fur, tons of energy. Idiot vet had nothing to say
about it, good or bad. Levi hasn't seen the new vet, yet, but will in
early January.

He is about 5 months old, and I don't recall any of my other 3 males being
this thin ever. Is this a symptom of having FHV??

--
Lynne

cybercat
December 14th 06, 05:45 PM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
. 97.142...
> on Thu, 14 Dec 2006 16:48:25 GMT, "cybercat" > wrote:
>
>> Ask your vet to be sure. Also, to make sure he is not too thin,
>> when you pet his back, you should be able to feel his backbone
>> but not the individual vertebrae.
>
> Levi is WAY too skinny, despite eating like a pig (and definitely being
> parasite free). I can SEE his vertibrae. Otherwise he looks great - very
> bright eyes, soft, silky fur, tons of energy. Idiot vet had nothing to
> say
> about it, good or bad. Levi hasn't seen the new vet, yet, but will in
> early January.
>
> He is about 5 months old, and I don't recall any of my other 3 males being
> this thin ever. Is this a symptom of having FHV??
>
> --

Oh, God, Lynne, I don't know, but don't even think that about Levi.
What exactly did Idiot Vet do?

Lynne
December 14th 06, 06:13 PM
on Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:45:47 GMT, "cybercat" > wrote:

> Oh, God, Lynne, I don't know, but don't even think that about Levi.
> What exactly did Idiot Vet do?

Well Levi does have FHV. Idiot vet just wanted to dose him with constant
rounds of antibiotics, which is *never* a good idea. Levi's outbreaks come
frequently, but also pass frequently and with no sign of infection in
months. So unless and until that changes, he is only getting L-lysine
supplements (and lots of suckling, hehe). Idiot vet agreed that Levi is
underweight, but said that since he is growing, looks so good (other than
being so thin) and has beyond normal energy, not to worry. I am not
worrying, except of course when I think about it...

--
Lynne

cybercat
December 14th 06, 06:23 PM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
. 97.142...
> on Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:45:47 GMT, "cybercat" > wrote:
>
>> Oh, God, Lynne, I don't know, but don't even think that about Levi.
>> What exactly did Idiot Vet do?
>
> Well Levi does have FHV.

Ohh, I had missed that for some reason. Poor baby.

Lynne
December 14th 06, 07:04 PM
I posted this in another thread, but thought I'd repost with the new
subject. Does FHV cause cats to be underweight?

on Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:41:23 GMT, Lynne >
wrote:

> Levi is WAY too skinny, despite eating like a pig (and definitely
> being parasite free). I can SEE his vertibrae. Otherwise he looks
> great - very bright eyes, soft, silky fur, tons of energy. Idiot vet
> had nothing to say about it, good or bad. Levi hasn't seen the new
> vet, yet, but will in early January.
>
> He is about 5 months old, and I don't recall any of my other 3 males
> being this thin ever. Is this a symptom of having FHV??

--
Lynne

Cheryl
December 15th 06, 01:37 AM
On Thu 14 Dec 2006 12:41:23p, Lynne wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
. 97.142>:

> He is about 5 months old, and I don't recall any of my other 3
> males being this thin ever. Is this a symptom of having FHV??

In and of itself, I'd say no. But if he often has URI symptoms
and can't smell, he won't eat as much as he should. I had that
problem with my Scarlett in her first 6 months or so. She came
from a litter (her brother included, who I took in with her) that
were all sickly early on. She couldn't be safely spayed because
she just couldn't get healthy until she was close to 5 months old.
I'm used to them being able to be neutered at 8 weeks, or 2
pounds. At 5 months she was still only about 4 lbs, but still
having recurring URIs.

Here's a picture of her very skinny, and she was nearly 5 months
old. This was just after her spay surgery (which resulted in
complications, though it isn't positive that her complications
were a direct result of FHV). She's a healthy happy fit 2-1/2
year old now, and a far cry from this skinny minnie. She's about
9 lbs, but very long.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/shambondow/album/576460762371497983/photo/294928803989682442/52

(I hope that works - Yahoo changed my pages to their new format
finally)

--
Cheryl

Lynne
December 15th 06, 01:53 AM
on Fri, 15 Dec 2006 01:37:07 GMT, Cheryl >
wrote:

> In and of itself, I'd say no. But if he often has URI symptoms
> and can't smell, he won't eat as much as he should. I had that
> problem with my Scarlett in her first 6 months or so. She came
> from a litter (her brother included, who I took in with her) that
> were all sickly early on.

Ah, the smell thing makes sense. He has frequent nasal congestion (I
affectionately call him Mr. SnotRocket sometimes).

> She couldn't be safely spayed because
> she just couldn't get healthy until she was close to 5 months old.
> I'm used to them being able to be neutered at 8 weeks, or 2
> pounds. At 5 months she was still only about 4 lbs, but still
> having recurring URIs.

Levi should be spayed in January (I do my boys at 6 months), but I'm
nervous for him because of the FHV. I am going to talk to the vet about
putting him on antibiotics a few days prior to the surgery and leaving
him on for a 2 week course.

> Here's a picture of her very skinny, and she was nearly 5 months
> old. This was just after her spay surgery (which resulted in
> complications, though it isn't positive that her complications
> were a direct result of FHV). She's a healthy happy fit 2-1/2
> year old now, and a far cry from this skinny minnie. She's about
> 9 lbs, but very long.
>
> http://new.photos.yahoo.com/shambondow/album/576460762371497983/photo/2
> 94928803989682442/52
>
> (I hope that works - Yahoo changed my pages to their new format
> finally)

It worked. I love her markings! Levi is even skinnier for his size in
comparison. His little hip bones stick out, and it makes my heart ache
sometimes. He LOVES his wet food and also has dry out all the time (both
are kitten foods). His energy levels are VERY high and he seems to be
eating enough. I'll be discussing this with his new vet to see if he
thinks there is anything else I need to do.

Thanks for posting, I'm glad to hear your girl is at a good weight and
healthy. Perhaps Levi will do just as well eventually. I love this
little guy so much he just has to!

--
Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

Lynne
December 15th 06, 02:09 AM
on Fri, 15 Dec 2006 01:37:07 GMT, Cheryl >
wrote:

> (I hope that works - Yahoo changed my pages to their new format
> finally)

I'm looking at all of your pictures right now - I'm audibly oohing and
aahing aver all the sweet kitten pics!!

--
Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

Cheryl
December 15th 06, 02:12 AM
On Thu 14 Dec 2006 08:53:18p, Lynne wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
m>:

> Thanks for posting, I'm glad to hear your girl is at a good
> weight and healthy. Perhaps Levi will do just as well
> eventually. I love this little guy so much he just has to!

I have to say it was very difficult with her when she was sickly.
It took daily hand feedings to get enough food into her (you'd
never know it now; she LOVES to eat now. But back then, we had
daily sessions of her sitting on my lap and me with a bowl of
either watered down mushed up kitten food or baby food (she liked
the chicken or ham best) and I'd feed it to her on a spoon. About
socialization, her and her brother were from the same litter, grew
up in my house from 9 wks on, but she adjusted better to people
than he did. I attribute that to the constant handling. Her brother
got over the FHV earlier, and didn't require the constant babying
that she did. Either it shows in their personalities, or every cat
is that different, even from the same litter. He's actually very
skittish to this day. Even with me sometimes, if I move too fast.
When I have company in the house, they never see him. Just like my
former feral, Bonnie. Scarlett and Shamrock are very social.

--
Cheryl

Lynne
December 15th 06, 02:33 AM
on Fri, 15 Dec 2006 02:12:42 GMT, Cheryl >
wrote:

> I have to say it was very difficult with her when she was sickly.
> It took daily hand feedings to get enough food into her (you'd
> never know it now; she LOVES to eat now. But back then, we had
> daily sessions of her sitting on my lap and me with a bowl of
> either watered down mushed up kitten food or baby food (she liked
> the chicken or ham best) and I'd feed it to her on a spoon. About
> socialization, her and her brother were from the same litter, grew
> up in my house from 9 wks on, but she adjusted better to people
> than he did. I attribute that to the constant handling. Her brother
> got over the FHV earlier, and didn't require the constant babying
> that she did. Either it shows in their personalities, or every cat
> is that different, even from the same litter. He's actually very
> skittish to this day. Even with me sometimes, if I move too fast.
> When I have company in the house, they never see him. Just like my
> former feral, Bonnie. Scarlett and Shamrock are very social.
>

I feel like I was 'there' while Rhett and Scarlett were growing up! I
just went through all of your photos - very fun. I am quite certain I
could adore Shamrock, by the way.

I'm not sure if there is a 'nature vs. nurture' debate when it comes to
kitties, but I am a firm believer that it's all nurture in a cat that is
of sound mind and body. (I have met more than a few tortie kittens that
were insane and there wasn't enough nurture in the world to make them
friendly...) I think you did what you had to in order to bring Scarlett
along, and clearly you did a good job. Rhett looks very happy with his
life, too, so I wouldn't worry about that. As long as all the kitties
are getting along, it's all good.

--
Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

Cheryl
December 15th 06, 03:11 AM
On Thu 14 Dec 2006 09:33:10p, Lynne wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
m>:

> I feel like I was 'there' while Rhett and Scarlett were growing
> up! I just went through all of your photos - very fun. I am
> quite certain I could adore Shamrock, by the way.
>
I just went through the slideshow after posting that link, and I
smiled some much needed smiles watching them grow up again. :)
I'm glad you enjoyed them.

> I'm not sure if there is a 'nature vs. nurture' debate when it
> comes to kitties, but I am a firm believer that it's all nurture
> in a cat that is of sound mind and body. (I have met more than
> a few tortie kittens that were insane and there wasn't enough
> nurture in the world to make them friendly...) I think you did
> what you had to in order to bring Scarlett along, and clearly
> you did a good job. Rhett looks very happy with his life, too,
> so I wouldn't worry about that. As long as all the kitties are
> getting along, it's all good.

Thank you for that. I think something can be engrained in their
genetics with cats, because some cats will just never be cuddly
people friendly cats no matter what. I just thought it was
interesting to see completely different purrsonalities among
littermates. As for everyone getting along, LOL! Shamrock is a
headcase. I think he has a few tightly wrapped wires, though he is
a lovable boy. He is on clomicalm for behavior "modification". I
think it is directly related to his allergy issues, or maybe was
in the beginning. He was so miserable itching so much. He used to
attack me, and I was seriously afraid of him at times. I've been
around cats in a lot of situations; normal everyday housecats,
rescue cats, feral cats ... but something about Shamrock isn't
quite right. It got to where he wouldn't let me walk past him
without climbing my legs. I was seriously afraid sometimes, and
he inflicted serious damage, especially in the summer. Now he
limits his "attacks" to a bite on my leg here and there when I am
too close, or when I get in the shower. He also has a strange
hatred of Bonnie ever since the kittens came to us, even though
she gets along great with them, too. There were days he wouldn't
allow her to come out from under the bed in my room.

More pics, including Bonnie's socialization
http://community.webshots.com/user/csellner

--
Cheryl

IBen Getiner
December 17th 06, 06:21 AM
Chris wrote:
> Is there a way to determine the correct weight for a cat?
>

Go into bathroom. Get on scale. Note weight read-out. Get off scale. Go
find kat. Pick up kat. Go to bathroom. Get on scale with kat. Note
weight read-out. Get off scale. Take little read-out number and
subtract it from big read-out number. Left-over number is weight of
kat. Hope this helps..

Oh, by the way... put kat down now..


IBen Getiner

Chris
December 18th 06, 09:17 AM
In article m>, IBen
Getiner > writes
>Chris wrote:
>> Is there a way to determine the correct weight for a cat?

>Go into bathroom. Get on scale. Note weight read-out. Get off scale. Go
>find kat. Pick up kat. Go to bathroom. Get on scale with kat. Note
>weight read-out. Get off scale. Take little read-out number and
>subtract it from big read-out number. Left-over number is weight of
>kat. Hope this helps..

That's what I do to answer the question "What is an accurate estimate of
the weight of this cat?"

The question I'm interested in is "What weight should this cat ideally
be, in order to be fit and healthy?"

That is not so easy to answer.
A Maine Coon can weigh twenty pounds.
This cat is a mixture.
And so furry you can't really get close enough to feel his ribs
properly.
--
Chris

Rene S.
December 18th 06, 10:09 PM
Lynne wrote:
> on Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:45:47 GMT, "cybercat" > wrote:
>
> > Oh, God, Lynne, I don't know, but don't even think that about Levi.
> > What exactly did Idiot Vet do?
>
> Well Levi does have FHV. Idiot vet just wanted to dose him with constant
> rounds of antibiotics, which is *never* a good idea. Levi's outbreaks come
> frequently, but also pass frequently and with no sign of infection in
> months. So unless and until that changes, he is only getting L-lysine
> supplements (and lots of suckling, hehe). Idiot vet agreed that Levi is
> underweight, but said that since he is growing, looks so good (other than
> being so thin) and has beyond normal energy, not to worry. I am not
> worrying, except of course when I think about it...
>
> --
> Lynne

How much Lysine are you giving him? He should be getting no less than
250 mg/twice a day if it's as bad and chronic as you say. Cats like
this generally are put on a more-or-less permanent schedule of Lysine
supplementation. I know of cats like this, and the only way to minimize
outbreaks and keep them healthy is to continue giving the Lysine
throughout their lifetime.

With all the antibiotics, he could have a serious imbalance of good gut
bacteria. This could interfere with digestion. The best product i've
heard of to get a cat back in balance is Primadopholis Junior:
http://www.hilife-vitamins.com/nature-s-way-3367406870.html

The reason this product is superior is because it is enteric coated, so
the capsule doesn't break open until its in the intestine, where it
needs to be. The capsules are also very small and ideal as a once-a-day
dose for cats.

Also, it sounds like you boys needs a lot of calories and a highly
digestible food. You might want to consider getting him on Innova Evo
(canned) or even a raw diet. I'm not a fan of dry food, and when you
have issues like this, it's best to avoid grains and feed a
high-quality and highly digestible diet. If you're interested in trying
raw, here's a link to Nature's Variety, which is what I use:
www.naturesvariety.com

if you have questions, feel free to email me.

Rene

Lynne
December 19th 06, 12:50 AM
on Mon, 18 Dec 2006 22:09:44 GMT, "Rene S." >
wrote:

> How much Lysine are you giving him? He should be getting no less than
> 250 mg/twice a day if it's as bad and chronic as you say. Cats like
> this generally are put on a more-or-less permanent schedule of Lysine
> supplementation. I know of cats like this, and the only way to
> minimize outbreaks and keep them healthy is to continue giving the
> Lysine throughout their lifetime.

He's on 250 mg twice per day and I plan on keeping him on it forever. My
vet has been less than helpful on this subject (said, "you can use
[Lysine] if you want") so I've been flying on my own. We have a new vet
Levi will be seeing in January. The litmus test will be his advice on
keeping Levi healthy.

> With all the antibiotics, he could have a serious imbalance of good
> gut bacteria. This could interfere with digestion. The best product
> i've heard of to get a cat back in balance is Primadopholis Junior:
> http://www.hilife-vitamins.com/nature-s-way-3367406870.html

I've managed to keep Levi on very few rounds of antibiotics. I have a
standing Rx at the pharmacy I can fill for him whenever I feel it is
neccessary, but I haven't in almost 2 months now. I had a dog who was
over treated with antibiotics and developed serious health problems as a
result (complicated by his other conditions, long story). So I am very
conservative with using them.

> The reason this product is superior is because it is enteric coated,
> so the capsule doesn't break open until its in the intestine, where it
> needs to be. The capsules are also very small and ideal as a
> once-a-day dose for cats.

This is great information for future reference. Thank you.

> Also, it sounds like you boys needs a lot of calories and a highly
> digestible food. You might want to consider getting him on Innova Evo
> (canned) or even a raw diet. I'm not a fan of dry food, and when you
> have issues like this, it's best to avoid grains and feed a
> high-quality and highly digestible diet. If you're interested in
> trying raw, here's a link to Nature's Variety, which is what I use:
> www.naturesvariety.com

I was looking at Innova Evo and the mfg states it is a supplement to
feeding raw. Can I feed Evo as his only food? He definitely needs more
calories. Right now he is eating Nutro chicken & liver (wet) kitten food
3 times a day, but also has access to dry if he ever wants any.

> if you have questions, feel free to email me.
>
> Rene

I'll copy this to your email, too. Thank you, Rene!


--
Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

IBen Getiner
December 19th 06, 04:49 AM
Chris wrote:
> In article m>, IBen
> Getiner > writes
> >Chris wrote:
> >> Is there a way to determine the correct weight for a cat?
>
> >Go into bathroom. Get on scale. Note weight read-out. Get off scale. Go
> >find kat. Pick up kat. Go to bathroom. Get on scale with kat. Note
> >weight read-out. Get off scale. Take little read-out number and
> >subtract it from big read-out number. Left-over number is weight of
> >kat. Hope this helps..
>
> That's what I do to answer the question "What is an accurate estimate of
> the weight of this cat?"
>
> The question I'm interested in is "What weight should this cat ideally
> be, in order to be fit and healthy?"
>
> That is not so easy to answer.

Oh... I see. You should have made that clear from the start. I'd say to
use a ratio and proportion formula. Use human weights and measurements
and then just ratio them down. After all... both species are mammals,
you know.


> A Maine Coon can weigh twenty pounds.

The average black male here hovers at around 185. Nothing but muscles,
scars, more scars on top of those scars, and usually a
more-than-adequate impregnation tool. No brain, though.

> This cat is a mixture.
> And so furry you can't really get close enough to feel his ribs
> properly.
> --

Wet him down, Kris. That's the ticket.

IBen Getiner

Rene S.
December 19th 06, 01:49 PM
> > if you have questions, feel free to email me.
> >
> > Rene
>
> I'll copy this to your email, too. Thank you, Rene!
>
>
> --
> Lynne
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

Lynne,

I got your email, and will respond to you directly.

Rene