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DBlondeCat
December 18th 06, 11:32 PM
Hey all, I am fairly new here, so this is my first question:

My cat will not cover her "business" in the litter box and worse will
kick poo out of the box from time to time. Any hints on how to get her
to keep her poo in the box and covered??? Thanks for anything you can
provide...and HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

Michelle

cindys
December 18th 06, 11:37 PM
"DBlondeCat" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hey all, I am fairly new here, so this is my first question:
>
> My cat will not cover her "business" in the litter box and worse will
> kick poo out of the box from time to time. Any hints on how to get her
> to keep her poo in the box and covered??? Thanks for anything you can
> provide...and HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
-----------
Get a covered/hooded litter box. It's more expensive than an open box but
well worth the money (IMHO). The cat still won't cover her "business", but
the litter will stay in the box, and you won't have to see her "business"
except when you're cleaning the box.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

cybercat
December 18th 06, 11:38 PM
"DBlondeCat" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hey all, I am fairly new here, so this is my first question:
>
> My cat will not cover her "business" in the litter box and worse will
> kick poo out of the box from time to time. Any hints on how to get her
> to keep her poo in the box and covered??? Thanks for anything you can
> provide...and HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
>

Go to Petsmart and get a bigger, deeper box, the kind they sell for dogs. I
has a lower side for easy entrance.

Is your cat declawed? That is often the case when cats won't cover their
mess.

I trained my cat to cover it by finding her whenever she laid a stinky one,
and gently carrying her to the box, puttingg her in and covering it with her
paws while praising her.

Some say, just scoop it. But give training her a try.

Lynne
December 18th 06, 11:42 PM
on Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:37:53 GMT, "cindys" >
wrote:

> Get a covered/hooded litter box. It's more expensive than an open box
> but well worth the money (IMHO). The cat still won't cover her
> "business", but the litter will stay in the box, and you won't have to
> see her "business" except when you're cleaning the box.

I have to disagree with this advice. Covered cat boxes can create
problems. Some cats will not use them, and for good reason: the REEK under
those hoods. The litter pan needs air circulation to remain tolerable to a
cat, no matter how dilligent you are about scooping.

My suggestion is to get a box with higher sides, and when you find poop
that isn't covered, simply scoop it out.

--
Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

cybercat
December 18th 06, 11:51 PM
"cindys" > wrote in message
...
>
> "DBlondeCat" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> Hey all, I am fairly new here, so this is my first question:
>>
>> My cat will not cover her "business" in the litter box and worse will
>> kick poo out of the box from time to time. Any hints on how to get her
>> to keep her poo in the box and covered??? Thanks for anything you can
>> provide...and HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
> -----------
> Get a covered/hooded litter box. It's more expensive than an open box but
> well worth the money (IMHO). The cat still won't cover her "business", but
> the litter will stay in the box, and you won't have to see her "business"
> except when you're cleaning the box.
> Best regards,

No way. It is way to easy to forget to scoop when the box is covered. When
we had a problem with our cat pooping outside the box, uncovering the box
cured her. And helped us keep a cleaner box.

cindys
December 19th 06, 12:51 AM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> on Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:37:53 GMT, "cindys" >
> wrote:
>
>> Get a covered/hooded litter box. It's more expensive than an open box
>> but well worth the money (IMHO). The cat still won't cover her
>> "business", but the litter will stay in the box, and you won't have to
>> see her "business" except when you're cleaning the box.
>
> I have to disagree with this advice. Covered cat boxes can create
> problems. Some cats will not use them, and for good reason: the REEK
> under
> those hoods. The litter pan needs air circulation to remain tolerable to
> a
> cat, no matter how dilligent you are about scooping.
-------
What can I say? I have a total of five cats and six litterboxes, three are
covered, three are open. My cats use all of them just the same.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.



>
> My suggestion is to get a box with higher sides, and when you find poop
> that isn't covered, simply scoop it out.
>
> --
> Lynne
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

cybercat
December 19th 06, 12:55 AM
"cindys" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Lynne" > wrote in message
> m...
>> on Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:37:53 GMT, "cindys" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Get a covered/hooded litter box. It's more expensive than an open box
>>> but well worth the money (IMHO). The cat still won't cover her
>>> "business", but the litter will stay in the box, and you won't have to
>>> see her "business" except when you're cleaning the box.
>>
>> I have to disagree with this advice. Covered cat boxes can create
>> problems. Some cats will not use them, and for good reason: the REEK
>> under
>> those hoods. The litter pan needs air circulation to remain tolerable to
>> a
>> cat, no matter how dilligent you are about scooping.
> -------
> What can I say? I have a total of five cats and six litterboxes, three are
> covered, three are open. My cats use all of them just the same.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
>

So why would you say that the covered box is a solution for cats that
don't cover their mess?

cindys
December 19th 06, 12:56 AM
"cindys" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Lynne" > wrote in message
> m...
>> on Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:37:53 GMT, "cindys" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Get a covered/hooded litter box. It's more expensive than an open box
>>> but well worth the money (IMHO). The cat still won't cover her
>>> "business", but the litter will stay in the box, and you won't have to
>>> see her "business" except when you're cleaning the box.
>>
>> I have to disagree with this advice. Covered cat boxes can create
>> problems. Some cats will not use them, and for good reason: the REEK
>> under
>> those hoods. The litter pan needs air circulation to remain tolerable to
>> a
>> cat, no matter how dilligent you are about scooping.
> -------
> What can I say? I have a total of five cats and six litterboxes, three are
> covered, three are open. My cats use all of them just the same.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
------------
But in all fairness, since I started using the litter with absorbant
crystals, it's made a huge difference. I would estimate it's cut down on the
litterbox odor by 90% (and I obviously scoop frequently).
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

cindys
December 19th 06, 01:13 AM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "cindys" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Lynne" > wrote in message
>> m...
>>> on Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:37:53 GMT, "cindys" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Get a covered/hooded litter box. It's more expensive than an open box
>>>> but well worth the money (IMHO). The cat still won't cover her
>>>> "business", but the litter will stay in the box, and you won't have to
>>>> see her "business" except when you're cleaning the box.
>>>
>>> I have to disagree with this advice. Covered cat boxes can create
>>> problems. Some cats will not use them, and for good reason: the REEK
>>> under
>>> those hoods. The litter pan needs air circulation to remain tolerable
>>> to a
>>> cat, no matter how dilligent you are about scooping.
>> -------
>> What can I say? I have a total of five cats and six litterboxes, three
>> are covered, three are open. My cats use all of them just the same.
>> Best regards,
>> ---Cindy S.
>>
>
> So why would you say that the covered box is a solution for cats that
> don't cover their mess?
--------
I was saying it was a solution for the litter being kicked out of the box.
If the cat is not inclined to cover her mess, I don't think the hood will
change that.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

cybercat
December 19th 06, 01:22 AM
"cindys" > wrote
> I was saying it was a solution for the litter being kicked out of the box.
> If the cat is not inclined to cover her mess, I don't think the hood will
> change that.
>

Gotcha. :) I still think a deeper box is better.

Wendy
December 19th 06, 11:40 AM
http://www.tiny.cc/bodVm

I've seen one very similar to this in the store. It has very high sides
while still having a low entryway which will accommodate young kittens and
older cats who might not be able to handle a higher entry.

http://www.tiny.cc/jcJyZ

This is the one I use for my own cats. The sides are high enough that if
the cat objects to the hood, it can be removed still leaving you with a
rather high sided box. We scoop every day around here and have 4 boxes for
my three so they never object to the odor in the box because there isn't
one. Well, let me restate that. There isn't any stench in the box except
after Diego uses it - he doesn't bury reliably. With three other boxes
available they can always find a clean one. Mine like the hood on - lets
them do their business in peace.

Neither will help kitty bury but will contain the scatter.

W

"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> on Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:37:53 GMT, "cindys" >
> wrote:
>
>> Get a covered/hooded litter box. It's more expensive than an open box
>> but well worth the money (IMHO). The cat still won't cover her
>> "business", but the litter will stay in the box, and you won't have to
>> see her "business" except when you're cleaning the box.
>
> I have to disagree with this advice. Covered cat boxes can create
> problems. Some cats will not use them, and for good reason: the REEK
> under
> those hoods. The litter pan needs air circulation to remain tolerable to
> a
> cat, no matter how dilligent you are about scooping.
>
> My suggestion is to get a box with higher sides, and when you find poop
> that isn't covered, simply scoop it out.
>
> --
> Lynne
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

Rene S.
December 19th 06, 04:22 PM
Lynne wrote:
> on Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:37:53 GMT, "cindys" >
> wrote:
>
> > Get a covered/hooded litter box. It's more expensive than an open box
> > but well worth the money (IMHO). The cat still won't cover her
> > "business", but the litter will stay in the box, and you won't have to
> > see her "business" except when you're cleaning the box.
>
> I have to disagree with this advice. Covered cat boxes can create
> problems. Some cats will not use them, and for good reason: the REEK under
> those hoods. The litter pan needs air circulation to remain tolerable to a
> cat, no matter how dilligent you are about scooping.
>
> My suggestion is to get a box with higher sides, and when you find poop
> that isn't covered, simply scoop it out.
>
> --
> Lynne

I agree with Lynne. The covered boxes are also a pain to clean and keep
clean.

You can buy a Rubbermaid or similar brand storage container and cut one
of the sides down for an entrance. Or try a larger box in general (I
use under-the-bed storage containers as litterboxes. Much larger than
regular litterboxes and only cost $5.)

Rene

Lynne
December 19th 06, 06:28 PM
on Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:51:54 GMT, "cindys" >
wrote:

> What can I say? I have a total of five cats and six litterboxes, three
> are covered, three are open. My cats use all of them just the same.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.

Your cats may use them, but I dare you to stick your whole head under the
hood of one of those covered boxes and leave it in there for 2-3 minutes.

My Rudy will go in a **** filled box that my mother forgot to clean when I
was out of town for a week becuase she forgot I have multiple boxes. Does
that mean it's pleasant for him?

--
Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

The Ranger
December 19th 06, 06:40 PM
DBlondeCat > wrote in message
ups.com...
> My cat will not cover her "business" in the litter box and
> worse will kick poo out of the box from time to time.
> Any hints on how to get her to keep her poo in the box
> and covered??? Thanks for anything you can provide...

We've been using the enclosed litter boxes for Da Boyz since
bringing them home in 1992.

I disagree with the poster that said enclosed boxes reek. They don't
reek anymore than an open bin. If they take on a life of their own,
there are other issues involved (more frequent scooping, getting a
new box, or investing in better litter.) I will only use Tidy Cat
litter for multiple cats now; it's reduced Da Boyz' need to mark
outside their litter boxes.

The Ranger

Lynne
December 19th 06, 06:44 PM
on Tue, 19 Dec 2006 18:44:56 GMT, "The Ranger" >
wrote:

> And that's all that matters... The cats are using them.

Many cats will also eat crappy cat food that will likely cause long term
problems, but because they are eating it, does that make it okay to feed it
to them?

--
Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

The Ranger
December 19th 06, 06:44 PM
Lynne > wrote in message
m...
> > I have a total of five cats and six litterboxes, three
> > are covered, three are open. My cats use all of them
> > just the same.
> >
> Your cats may use them, [..]

And that's all that matters... The cats are using them.

The Ranger

The Ranger
December 19th 06, 06:51 PM
Lynne > wrote in message
...
> on Tue, 19 Dec 2006 18:44:56 GMT, "The Ranger"
> wrote:

> > And that's all that matters... The cats are using them.
> >
> Many cats will also eat crappy cat food that will likely
> cause long term problems, but because they are eating
> it, does that make it okay to feed it to them?

Non sequitor. Or do you always lead with such hysterics?

The Ranger

Lynne
December 19th 06, 06:53 PM
on Tue, 19 Dec 2006 18:51:04 GMT, "The Ranger" >
wrote:

> Non sequitor. Or do you always lead with such hysterics?

and just where are the hysterics? Projection much?

I think the analogy is valid.

--
Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

The Ranger
December 19th 06, 07:21 PM
Lynne > wrote in message
...
> on Tue, 19 Dec 2006 18:51:04 GMT, "The Ranger"
> wrote:
>
> > Non sequitor. Or do you always lead with such hysterics?
> >
> and just where are the hysterics? Projection much?
>
> I think the analogy is valid.

It's not a valid analogy. An enclosed litter box does not lead to
long-term health issues unless (caveat) there are other issues at
work, in which case it's not the enclosed box that's the problem.

The Ranger

Lynne
December 19th 06, 07:42 PM
on Tue, 19 Dec 2006 19:21:30 GMT, "The Ranger" >
wrote:

> It's not a valid analogy. An enclosed litter box does not lead to
> long-term health issues unless (caveat) there are other issues at
> work, in which case it's not the enclosed box that's the problem.

I didn't intend to imply that a covered litter box causes long term
health issues, but I can see why you might think so. My analogy was
example of convenience for the human = something which is not good for
the kitty.

So (cheap dry food or covered litter box) can lead to problems for kitty
(health risks from the food, or off the top of my head:
1 - a covered pan holding in odors may force your cat to hold his breath
while he potties
2 - if you can't watch him use the box, you won't see him strain to pee
or find bloody poop
3 - cat's have an instinctual need for escape potential while doing their
duty, which is eliminated with a hooded box--the escape potential, not
the need for it)

1 and 3 above can lead to the cat deciding NOT to use a covered litter
box. Even if a cat continues using a covered litter pan, I think it's
****ty (literally) for a person to make them.

--
Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

The Ranger
December 19th 06, 08:50 PM
Lynne > wrote in message
m...
> on Tue, 19 Dec 2006 19:21:30 GMT, "The Ranger"
> wrote:
>
> > It's not a valid analogy. An enclosed litter box does not lead
to
> > long-term health issues unless (caveat) there are other issues
at
> > work, in which case it's not the enclosed box that's the
problem.
>
> I didn't intend to imply that a covered litter box causes long
term
> health issues, but I can see why you might think so. My analogy
> was example of convenience for the human = something which
> is not good for the kitty.

Convenience (a covered litter box) for the human does equal
something good (solid benefits) for the cat (privacy, clean turf to
mark)

> So (cheap dry food or covered litter box) can lead to
> problems for kitty

Non sequitor. Equating cheap food to a covered litter box is the
cliched apple-n-orange comparison; there is no similarities nor
forcing your byzantine logic to fit the situation won't make it any
more true.

> (health risks from the food, or off the top of my head:
> 1 - a covered pan holding in odors may force your cat
> to hold his breath while he potties

You've witnessed a cat holding his breath while he takes a break?
Even when one of Da Boyz was constipated, he wasn't holding his
breath to let go a log.

> 2 - if you can't watch him use the box, you won't see
> him strain to pee or find bloody poop

You don't need to "see" him to know those issues are occuring. Those
are the "other issues" I mentioned prior, the most significant being
neglect.

> 3 - cat's have an instinctual need for escape potential
> while doing their duty, which is eliminated with a hooded
> box--the escape potential, not the need for it)

The things one learns on Usenet...

Even if you're standing in front of the hatch, the cat has figured
out a way of getting past you. It's not an issue.

> 1 and 3 above can lead to the cat deciding NOT to
> use a covered litter box.

And proper training will help it make a better choice. A cat is as
dedicated to routine as any mammel; moreso than many humans.

> Even if a cat continues using a covered litter pan, I
> think it's ****ty (literally) for a person to make them.

It's better than any alternatives.

The Ranger

Lynne
December 19th 06, 10:53 PM
on Tue, 19 Dec 2006 20:50:57 GMT, "The Ranger" >
wrote:

> Convenience (a covered litter box) for the human does equal
> something good (solid benefits) for the cat (privacy, clean turf to
> mark)

I can only assume you haven't read much about cat behavior. I didn't make
any of this stuff up. <shrug>

I will allow that there are some shy cats who prefer having a covered box,
however, those who use covered litter boxes should clean them far more
often than they probably are. How much do you like using porta potties?
Same difference.

--
Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

Phil P.
December 19th 06, 11:01 PM
"cindys" > wrote in message
...
> -------
> What can I say? I have a total of five cats and six litterboxes, three are
> covered, three are open. My cats use all of them just the same.

The most serious problem with covered litter boxes is you can't see if the
cat is straining to poop or pee. This can be life-threatening for a male
cat with a urinary tract obstruction.

Phil P.
December 19th 06, 11:01 PM
"DBlondeCat" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hey all, I am fairly new here, so this is my first question:
>
> My cat will not cover her "business" in the litter box
and worse will
> kick poo out of the box from time to time. Any hints on how to get her
> to keep her poo in the box and covered??? Thanks for anything you can
> provide...and HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
>
> Michelle

Try one of these boxes


http://maxshouse.com/Environmental_Enrichment/litterbox-rubbermaid-high.jpg

http://maxshouse.com/Environmental_Enrichment/second_nature_litterboxes_dogs.jpg (Standard)

Phil P.
December 19th 06, 11:09 PM
"The Ranger" > wrote in message
...
> Lynne > wrote in message
> ...
> > on Tue, 19 Dec 2006 18:51:04 GMT, "The Ranger"
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Non sequitor. Or do you always lead with such hysterics?
> > >
> > and just where are the hysterics? Projection much?
> >
> > I think the analogy is valid.
>
> It's not a valid analogy. An enclosed litter box does not lead to
> long-term health issues unless (caveat) there are other issues at
> work,

If the cat has a partial or complete urinary tract obstruction and strains
to pee you won't see it with a cover litter box-- until you find the cat
dead in the litter box from oliguric acute renal failure.

That's not hysterics, my friend- that's reality.

The Ranger
December 20th 06, 12:26 AM
Phil P. > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> "The Ranger" > wrote in message
...
> > Lynne > wrote in message
...
> > > on Tue, 19 Dec 2006 18:51:04 GMT, "The Ranger"
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Non sequitor. Or do you always lead with such hysterics?
> > > >
> > > and just where are the hysterics? Projection much?
> > >
> > > I think the analogy is valid.
> >
> > It's not a valid analogy. An enclosed litter box does not lead
to
> > long-term health issues unless (caveat) there are other issues
at
> > work,
>
> If the cat has a partial or complete urinary tract obstruction and
strains
> to pee you won't see it with a cover litter box-- until you find
the cat
> dead in the litter box from oliguric acute renal failure.
>
> That's not hysterics, my friend- that's reality.

As I've said in other posts, that's an extreme with "other
issues" -- neglect being the main component. It is a pet-owner's
directly stated responsibility to be able to pick up on issues (and
the owner does not have to have a vet's background to see there are
'problems') that will affect his/her pet's well-being. A pet owner,
from child to adult, does not need to physically _view_ their pet
straining. i.e.: The pet will no longer being using the litter box,
for one. The pet will no longer wish to be held/petted. The pet will
"hide" and be lethargic.

Taking the tone-and-pitch that the extreme should be viewed as the
norm is hysterics and not reality.

The Ranger

Phil P.
December 20th 06, 01:09 AM
"The Ranger" > wrote in message
...
> Phil P. > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > "The Ranger" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > Lynne > wrote in message
> ...
> > > > on Tue, 19 Dec 2006 18:51:04 GMT, "The Ranger"
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Non sequitor. Or do you always lead with such hysterics?
> > > > >
> > > > and just where are the hysterics? Projection much?
> > > >
> > > > I think the analogy is valid.
> > >
> > > It's not a valid analogy. An enclosed litter box does not lead
> to
> > > long-term health issues unless (caveat) there are other issues
> at
> > > work,
> >
> > If the cat has a partial or complete urinary tract obstruction and
> strains
> > to pee you won't see it with a cover litter box-- until you find
> the cat
> > dead in the litter box from oliguric acute renal failure.
> >
> > That's not hysterics, my friend- that's reality.
>
> As I've said in other posts, that's an extreme with "other
> issues" -- neglect being the main component.

That's not an extreme. It happens all the time. Neglect has nothing to do
with it. A well cared for cat can develop a urinary tract obstruction
suddenly. The only warning, before the situation becomes critical, is
straining to urinate. You can't see your cat strain through a covered
litter box.

Observing your cat's litter box behavior is an essential part of your cat's
general health care. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either ignorant or
too stupid to be entrusted with a cat's life.

Lynne
December 20th 06, 01:21 AM
on Wed, 20 Dec 2006 01:09:03 GMT, "Phil P." > wrote:

> Observing your cat's litter box behavior is an essential part of your
> cat's general health care. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either
> ignorant or too stupid to be entrusted with a cat's life.

Amen. Additionally, problems with stool may not be evident when it's not
very fresh. Blood will dry to a brown color and can go unnoticed.
Parasites will dry and shrivel up and be less visible. Taking a look at
your kitty's fresh poo as well as watching him urinate and deficate are
important for their proper care. Not every time, but certainly on a very
regular basis.

The same is true for dogs.

--
Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

The Ranger
December 20th 06, 01:24 AM
Phil P. > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> That's not an extreme. It happens all the time.

Wow. "All the time" is a pretty big brush there Phil.

> Neglect has nothing to do with it. A well cared for cat
> can develop a urinary tract obstruction suddenly.

And the owner of a well cared for cat will be noticing the
differences in both the cat's behaviors and routines. Both will be
observable alerting the pet owner of that well-cared-for-cat to
something going terribly wrong.

> The only warning, before the situation becomes critical, is
> straining to urinate.

The cat doesn't use the litter box, either, during this time. It
doesn't matter how convenien his litter box is, either. The urge to
urinate pushes past his need to go to the litter box and any wall,
carpet spot, or door will do. Again, it's observable behavior
differences.

> You can't see your cat strain through a covered
> litter box.

You do not _need_ to see them in this box.

> Observing your cat's litter box behavior is an essential part
> of your cat's general health care.

Direct observation is not essential for a feline health.

>Anyone who tells you otherwise is either ignorant or
> too stupid to be entrusted with a cat's life.

We will agree to disagree since you are incapable of continued
reasoning and are now taking this too personally.

The Ranger

Phil P.
December 20th 06, 01:46 AM
"The Ranger" > wrote in message
...
> Phil P. > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > That's not an extreme. It happens all the time.
>
> Wow. "All the time" is a pretty big brush there Phil.


My canvas is just a little bigger than yours. I deal with more than just
one cat and more than just one vet. Urinary tract obstructions are more
common than you might think.

>
> > Neglect has nothing to do with it. A well cared for cat
> > can develop a urinary tract obstruction suddenly.
>
> And the owner of a well cared for cat will be noticing the
> differences in both the cat's behaviors and routines. Both will be
> observable alerting the pet owner of that well-cared-for-cat to
> something going terribly wrong.

As I said, the only warning, before the situation becomes critical, is
straining to urinate.

> > The only warning, before the situation becomes critical, is
> > straining to urinate.
>
> The cat doesn't use the litter box, either, during this time. It
> doesn't matter how convenien his litter box is, either. The urge to
> urinate pushes past his need to go to the litter box and any wall,
> carpet spot, or door will do. Again, it's observable behavior
> differences.


As I said, the only warning, before the situation becomes critical, is
straining to urinate. Have you ever had a cat that developed a urinary
tract obstruction? Other changes in behavior usually don't develop until the
cat is completely blocked and damage to the bladder and/or urethra has
already occurred.


>
> > You can't see your cat strain through a covered
> > litter box.
>
> You do not _need_ to see them in this box.


Maybe you don't, but people who'd rather catch early warning signs of
problems do.



>
> > Observing your cat's litter box behavior is an essential part
> > of your cat's general health care.
>
> Direct observation is not essential for a feline health.

You have a lot to learn about cats. I hope you don't learn too late.


>
> >Anyone who tells you otherwise is either ignorant or
> > too stupid to be entrusted with a cat's life.
>
> We will agree to disagree since you are incapable of continued
> reasoning and are now taking this too personally.


Yeah, I generally take bad advice that could be potentially dangerous to
cats very personally.

Phil P.
December 20th 06, 01:50 AM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> on Wed, 20 Dec 2006 01:09:03 GMT, "Phil P." > wrote:
>
> > Observing your cat's litter box behavior is an essential part of your
> > cat's general health care. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either
> > ignorant or too stupid to be entrusted with a cat's life.
>
> Amen. Additionally, problems with stool may not be evident when it's not
> very fresh. Blood will dry to a brown color and can go unnoticed.
> Parasites will dry and shrivel up and be less visible. Taking a look at
> your kitty's fresh poo as well as watching him urinate and deficate are
> important for their proper care. Not every time, but certainly on a very
> regular basis.

Absotively. People with male cats should *see* their cats urinate at least
once a day.

Lynne
December 20th 06, 02:04 AM
on Wed, 20 Dec 2006 01:50:07 GMT, "Phil P." > wrote:

> Absotively. People with male cats should *see* their cats urinate at
> least once a day.

it's a ritual with my little Levi. He follows me everywhere when I'm home
(currently he's asleep on my shoulder). When I go into the bathroom, he
goes, too, and uses the box right next to the toilet. Rudy doesn't like
for me to watch him go, but I peek unobtrusively to make sure all is well.

I used to use covered litter boxes, but I have a very sensitive nose and
found that no matter how often I scooped and cleaned them (and that has
always been *very* often), the smell under the hood is intolerable to me.
I can only imagine how it must be for cats.

--
Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

The Ranger
December 20th 06, 04:19 AM
Phil P. > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
[snip]
> > > The only warning, before the situation becomes critical, is
> > > straining to urinate.
> >
> > The cat doesn't use the litter box, either, during this time. It
> > doesn't matter how convenien his litter box is, either. The
> > urge to urinate pushes past his need to go to the litter box
> > and any wall, carpet spot, or door will do. Again, it's
> > observable behavior differences.
>
>
> As I said, the only warning, before the situation becomes
> critical, is straining to urinate. Have you ever had a cat
> that developed a urinary tract obstruction?

Yes; twice. _Both_ times the one broke his routines and his urge to
urinate was predominent. It was a stressful time but he managed to
overcome the problems.

> Other changes in behavior usually don't develop until the
> cat is completely blocked and damage to the bladder
> and/or urethra has already occurred.

I must either be very observant or have cats ahead of the learning
curve. You are right that my experiences are limited, thankfully, to
non-hard luck cases.

> > We will agree to disagree since you are incapable of continued
> > reasoning and are now taking this too personally.
> >
> Yeah, I generally take bad advice that could be potentially
> dangerous to cats very personally.

Right. Wildly shooting from your hip like that, Wyatt, you might
actually hit the target next time. Using your feral experiences for
the general population do not make accurate reporting of good
advice, either.

The Ranger

Phil P.
December 20th 06, 05:50 AM
"The Ranger" > wrote in message
...
> Phil P. > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> [snip]

> > As I said, the only warning, before the situation becomes
> > critical, is straining to urinate. Have you ever had a cat
> > that developed a urinary tract obstruction?
>
> Yes; twice. _Both_ times the one broke his routines and his urge to
> urinate was predominent. It was a stressful time but he managed to
> overcome the problems.


He managed to overcome the problems-- twice?? Amazing cat. Did you morph
into a penile catheter to relieve him or did he just pop the plug out all by
himself? Most cats with UTOs need to be catheterized, Mighty Morph. Care to
revise your story?


> > >
> > Yeah, I generally take bad advice that could be potentially
> > dangerous to cats very personally.
>
> Right. Wildly shooting from your hip like that, Wyatt, you might
> actually hit the target next time.


At least I know what I'm aiming at, Mighty Morph. You can't even see the
target and shot yourself in the foot. Maybe the target is a tad too high for
you.



Using your feral experiences for
> the general population do not make accurate reporting of good
> advice, either.

Nothing gets past your lightening-quick perception, does it Lightspeed?
Perhaps you should look a little further to see where most of my experience
comes from.

The Ranger
December 20th 06, 03:52 PM
Phil P. > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> "The Ranger" > wrote in message
...
> > Phil P. > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> > [snip]
>
> > > As I said, the only warning, before the situation becomes
> > > critical, is straining to urinate. Have you ever had a cat
> > > that developed a urinary tract obstruction?
> >
> > Yes; twice. _Both_ times the one broke his routines and his urge
to
> > urinate was predominent. It was a stressful time but he managed
to
> > overcome the problems.
>
>
> He managed to overcome the problems-- twice?? Amazing cat.

Yes, he is. His nickname is the $6M Boy.

> Did you morph into a penile catheter to relieve him or did he
> just pop the plug out all by himself? Most cats with UTOs
> need to be catheterized, Mighty Morph. Care to revise your
> story?

Nope. Both visits were long-term stays at the vet made possible by a
generous donation by AMEX - Don't leave home without it.

> Perhaps you should look a little further to see where most of
> my experience comes from.

Hard-luck cases and feral captures? Continue stomping your feet,
nashing your teeth, and tearing at your chest; it's enjoyable to see
you froth all over the screen.

The Ranger
==
Please don't take this the wrong way, but you really really are a
stupid, inane, vapid and petty little piece of excrement.
- TeaLady, AFU

---MIKE---
December 20th 06, 05:48 PM
Ranger, arguing with Phil P is equivalent to being a troll. He DOES
know what he is talking about. Give it up.


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44 15' N - Elevation 1580')

The Ranger
December 20th 06, 06:49 PM
---MIKE--- > wrote in message
...
> Ranger, arguing with Phil P is equivalent to being a troll. He
> DOES now what he is talking about. Give it up.

Understood. I actually agree with a majority of what Phil posts and
have been enjoying his posts since first stumbling upon rpch+b.

I do not think his inflated opinions are accurate regarding covered
litter boxes nor his lackwit's stance that anyone using them is an
ignorant idiot nor too stupid to be trusted with a cat's life.

Since that puts me into "troll" status... Filter my address and be
done with it. It's been essentially the same for 14 years.

The Ranger

The Ranger
December 20th 06, 07:58 PM
Phil P. > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> "The Ranger" > wrote in message
...
> > > As I said, the only warning, before the situation becomes
> > > critical, is straining to urinate. Have you ever had a cat
> > > that developed a urinary tract obstruction?

There seems to be some professionals that disagree with you, Phil,
on warning signs. From veterinarypartner.com:
"Feline lower urinary tract disease, or FLUTD, is the term that
describes the following group of clinical signs:
* bloody urine
* straining to urinate (can easily be mistaken for straining to
defecate)
* urinating in unusual places
* urinary blockage (almost exclusively a male cat problem)
* licking the urinary opening (usually due to pain)"

From wikipedia:
"Symptoms"
"Symptoms of the disease include prolonged squatting and straining
during attempts to urinate, frequent trips to the litterbox or a
reluctance to leave the area, small amounts of urine voided in each
attempt, blood in the urine, howling, crying, or other
vocalizations. Male cats may suffer complete blockage of the
urethra, leading to painful bladder distension as the organ fills
with urine. Kidney failure and uremia will follow within hours. A
male cat may protrude its penis. The cat may seek seclusion, stop
eating and drinking, begin to vomit, and become lethargic and
eventually comatose as toxins accumulate in the bloodstream. This is
a veterinary emergency which will lead to death if not treated."

> > Yes; twice. _Both_ times the one broke his routines and
> > his urge to urinate was predominent. It was a stressful time
> > but he managed to overcome the problems.
> >
> He managed to overcome the problems-- twice?? Amazing cat.

My Boy yowled and squatted to pee in every place _but_ the box both
times we had to treat him for this disease. During the first
incident, he hid (in our walkin closet behind boxes) and was more
lethargic than I knew was normal. I lifted him from the floor of my
closet for the trip to our vet; I knew his stomach area was too hard
but didn't know it was a telling sign. When I touched it, his
lethargy dissolved into a Hellion's spit and claw; something that
had NEVER happened with him prior.

It's not a silent killer that comes upon an unaware owner...

He was six with the first occurance and had a relapse when he was
eight.

The Ranger
--
"Everyone is subject to the laws of Darwinism whether or not they
believe in them, agree with them, or accept them. There is no
trial, no jury, no argument, and no appeal."
-- Anonymous

Phil P.
December 20th 06, 10:30 PM
"The Ranger" > wrote in message
...
> Phil P. > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > "The Ranger" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > Phil P. > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > > [snip]
> >
> > > > As I said, the only warning, before the situation becomes
> > > > critical, is straining to urinate. Have you ever had a cat
> > > > that developed a urinary tract obstruction?
> > >
> > > Yes; twice. _Both_ times the one broke his routines and his urge
> to
> > > urinate was predominent. It was a stressful time but he managed
> to
> > > overcome the problems.
> >
> >
> > He managed to overcome the problems-- twice?? Amazing cat.
>
> Yes, he is. His nickname is the $6M Boy.


Wow! $6K to relieve 2 obstructions? LOL! I don't think so-- even with
surgical removal and a P.U.-- Your vet must really take you for a fool, too.


>
> > Did you morph into a penile catheter to relieve him or did he
> > just pop the plug out all by himself? Most cats with UTOs
> > need to be catheterized, Mighty Morph. Care to revise your
> > story?
>
> Nope. Both visits were long-term stays at the vet made possible by a
> generous donation by AMEX - Don't leave home without it.


Both visits? Most reasonably intelligent owners would have stopped using a
covered litter box after the first obstruction so they could monitor their
cats' litter box behavior much more closely for early signs of straining
and/or dribbling. As I said- 3 times- by the time the cat exhibits general
behavior changes or appears sick, permenant damage to the urethra or
bladder may be already occurring.


>
> > Perhaps you should look a little further to see where most of
> > my experience comes from.
>
> Hard-luck cases and feral captures?

If you call working with dumped and surrendered cats with special needs
"hard-luck" cases- you're correct, for a change. Most of my work is with
shelter cats and cats surrendered to vets by their owners who
couldn't/wouldn't treat the cats. I also work with ferals- just a little
more intensely this time of year. The more ferals we TNR the fewer kittens
we'll have to try to find homes for next kitten season.


Continue stomping your feet,
> nashing your teeth, and tearing at your chest; it's enjoyable to see
> you froth all over the screen.

Actually, I always have a good time making low-involvement owners like you
squirm trying to explain how their cats' problem wasn't their fault. lol

Phil P.
December 20th 06, 10:32 PM
"The Ranger" > wrote in message
...
> Phil P. > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > "The Ranger" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > > As I said, the only warning, before the situation becomes
> > > > critical, is straining to urinate. Have you ever had a cat
> > > > that developed a urinary tract obstruction?
>
> There seems to be some professionals that disagree with you, Phil,
> on warning signs.

I don't see any disagreements-- even though you're using outdated and
incorrect terms.


From veterinarypartner.com:
> "Feline lower urinary tract disease, or FLUTD, is the term that
> describes the following group of clinical signs:
> * bloody urine
> * straining to urinate (can easily be mistaken for straining to
> defecate)
> * urinating in unusual places
> * urinary blockage (almost exclusively a male cat problem)
> * licking the urinary opening (usually due to pain)"


FLUTD and FUS are general outdated terms that usually apply to Feline
Interstitial Cystits. Urolithiasis, Urinary Tract Obstruction or Urethral
Obstruction are the specific terms used to distinguish an UTO from FIC. The
clinical signs of "FLUTD/FUS and FIC and UTO are almost identical.

>
> From wikipedia:
> "Symptoms"
> "Symptoms of the disease include prolonged squatting and straining
> during attempts to urinate, frequent trips to the litterbox or a
> reluctance to leave the area, small amounts of urine voided in each
> attempt, blood in the urine, howling, crying, or other
> vocalizations.

These are symptoms of Feline Interstitial Cystits, formerly known as FUS and
FLUTD. The symptoms FIC and UTO are almost identical- except for the
obstruction. Google my old posts on Feline Interstitial Cystits to learn how
FIC produces the same symptoms as a UTO- but without the obstruction.


Male cats may suffer complete blockage of the
> urethra, leading to painful bladder distension as the organ fills
> with urine. Kidney failure and uremia will follow within hours. A
> male cat may protrude its penis. The cat may seek seclusion, stop
> eating and drinking, begin to vomit, and become lethargic and
> eventually comatose as toxins accumulate in the bloodstream. This is
> a veterinary emergency which will lead to death if not treated."

Yes! Abostively! I agree completely. These are all symptoms that develop
*later* in the course of the disease.


>
> > > Yes; twice. _Both_ times the one broke his routines and
> > > his urge to urinate was predominent. It was a stressful time
> > > but he managed to overcome the problems.
> > >
> > He managed to overcome the problems-- twice?? Amazing cat.
>
> My Boy yowled and squatted to pee in every place _but_ the box both
> times we had to treat him for this disease. During the first
> incident, he hid (in our walkin closet behind boxes) and was more
> lethargic than I knew was normal. I lifted him from the floor of my
> closet for the trip to our vet; I knew his stomach area was too hard
> but didn't know it was a telling sign. When I touched it, his
> lethargy dissolved into a Hellion's spit and claw; something that
> had NEVER happened with him prior.
>
> It's not a silent killer that comes upon an unaware owner...


Zoom! Your completely missing the point. All the symptoms you've mentioned
occur *later* in the course of the condition- *after* the obstruction is
well established and urine and uremic toxins begin to accumulate and the
bladder becomes overdistended.

The *early* warning signs begin with difficulty urinating and passing small
amounts of urine-- the *early* symptoms you can't see with a covered litter
box. That's my point. *Early* detection and intervention are *crucial* in
preventing irreversible destruction of the kidneys, bladder and urethra.


>
> He was six with the first occurance and had a relapse when he was
> eight.

And you're probably still using a covered litter box... I hope you have at
least the sense to feed him a canned diet. If he reblocked, his urethra may
have permanent damage- from the obstruction itself or from catherization.
So, you should monitor his litter box behavior *very* closely for *early*
warning signs and not wait until he develops overt symptoms.

Darth Breather
December 21st 06, 02:13 AM
Lynne wrote:


> So (cheap dry food or covered litter box) can lead to problems for kitty
> (health risks from the food, or off the top of my head:
> 1 - a covered pan holding in odors may force your cat to hold his breath
> while he potties
> 2 - if you can't watch him use the box, you won't see him strain to pee
> or find bloody poop
> 3 - cat's have an instinctual need for escape potential while doing their
> duty, which is eliminated with a hooded box--the escape potential, not
> the need for it)
>
> 1 and 3 above can lead to the cat deciding NOT to use a covered litter
> box. Even if a cat continues using a covered litter pan, I think it's
> ****ty (literally) for a person to make them.

Our cat preffered a covrd pan. She dont like being wached. It had a
charcole filtr in the hood an it dint stink. we scoopped every day
somtimes twice.

Wendy
December 22nd 06, 01:11 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Lynne" > wrote in message
> m...
>> on Wed, 20 Dec 2006 01:09:03 GMT, "Phil P." > wrote:
>>
>> > Observing your cat's litter box behavior is an essential part of your
>> > cat's general health care. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either
>> > ignorant or too stupid to be entrusted with a cat's life.
>>
>> Amen. Additionally, problems with stool may not be evident when it's not
>> very fresh. Blood will dry to a brown color and can go unnoticed.
>> Parasites will dry and shrivel up and be less visible. Taking a look at
>> your kitty's fresh poo as well as watching him urinate and deficate are
>> important for their proper care. Not every time, but certainly on a very
>> regular basis.
>
> Absotively. People with male cats should *see* their cats urinate at least
> once a day.
>
>

I guess I should be shot at sunrise then. I never watch my guys go unless I
just happen to be there when they are doing their business. The litter boxes
are all in the laundry room which isn't somewhere I hang with any
regularity. I am aware, however, of how often they make trips in there to
use the boxes as they don't tend to go in there for any other reason and do
check the size and content of the clumps that get scooped.

W