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Stick Waver
January 26th 07, 02:22 PM
Please show your outrage re the following sickening example of cruelty
by contacting PETA and the ASPCA at and


http://youtube.com/watch?v=15bwhVxw-Bg


Remember to include the above URL for this video.

Lynne
January 26th 07, 02:36 PM
on Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:22:18 GMT, Stick Waver > wrote:

> Please show your outrage re the following sickening example of cruelty
> by contacting PETA and the ASPCA at and
>
>
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=15bwhVxw-Bg
>
>
> Remember to include the above URL for this video.

uh, PETA is NOT a proponent of pets. If they had their way, no one would
have pet cats, dogs or anything. Their name, People for the Ethical
Treatment of Animals is a misnomer and they have a pretty ugly history. Do
some research.

--
Lynne

RobZip
January 26th 07, 02:46 PM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> on Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:22:18 GMT, Stick Waver > wrote:
>
>> Please show your outrage re the following sickening example of cruelty
>> by contacting PETA and the ASPCA at and
>>
>>
>>
>> http://youtube.com/watch?v=15bwhVxw-Bg
>>
>>
>> Remember to include the above URL for this video.
>
> uh, PETA is NOT a proponent of pets. If they had their way, no one would
> have pet cats, dogs or anything. Their name, People for the Ethical
> Treatment of Animals is a misnomer and they have a pretty ugly history.
> Do
> some research.
>
> --
> Lynne

True enough and sad that they own the name. PETA, while having a few - note
that , FEW - good points in their crusade for animals, is overshadowed by a
crackpot, lunatic fringe element within their ranks that totally alienates
most normal folks who come in contact with them.

Stick Waver
January 26th 07, 03:13 PM
RobZip wrote:

> "Lynne" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>on Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:22:18 GMT, Stick Waver > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Please show your outrage re the following sickening example of cruelty
>>>by contacting PETA and the ASPCA at and

>>>
>>>
>>>http://youtube.com/watch?v=15bwhVxw-Bg
>>>
>>>
>>>Remember to include the above URL for this video.
>>
>>uh, PETA is NOT a proponent of pets. If they had their way, no one would
>>have pet cats, dogs or anything. Their name, People for the Ethical
>>Treatment of Animals is a misnomer and they have a pretty ugly history.
>>Do
>>some research.
>>
>>--
>>Lynne
>
>
> True enough and sad that they own the name. PETA, while having a few - note
> that , FEW - good points in their crusade for animals, is overshadowed by a
> crackpot, lunatic fringe element within their ranks that totally alienates
> most normal folks who come in contact with them.
>
>

I understand that, but if they can help in this instance, what's the
harm in asking?

sheelagh
January 26th 07, 05:38 PM
On Jan 26, 2:36 pm, Lynne > wrote:
> on Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:22:18 GMT, Stick Waver > wrote:
>
> > Please show your outrage re the following sickening example of cruelty
> > by contacting PETA and the ASPCA at and
> >
>
> >http://youtube.com/watch?v=15bwhVxw-Bg
>
> > Remember to include the above URL for this video.uh, PETA is NOT a proponent of pets. If they had their way, no one would
> have pet cats, dogs or anything. Their name, People for the Ethical
> Treatment of Animals is a misnomer and they have a pretty ugly history. Do
> some research.

Forgive my ignorance, but what does misnomer mean Lynne?
S;o)

Stick Waver
January 26th 07, 05:50 PM
On Jan 26, 11:38 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On Jan 26, 2:36 pm, Lynne > wrote:
>
> > on Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:22:18 GMT, Stick Waver > wrote:
>
> > > Please show your outrage re the following sickening example of cruelty
> > > by contacting PETA and the ASPCA at and
> > >
>
> > >http://youtube.com/watch?v=15bwhVxw-Bg
>
> > > Remember to include the above URL for this video.uh, PETA is NOT a proponent of pets. If they had their way, no one would
> > have pet cats, dogs or anything. Their name, People for the Ethical
> > Treatment of Animals is a misnomer and they have a pretty ugly history. Do
> > some research.Forgive my ignorance, but what does misnomer mean Lynne?

Only those who don't ask questions are ignorant :-)

Misnomer means mis-named.

Theodore
January 26th 07, 07:01 PM
On Jan 26, 8:22 am, Stick Waver > wrote:
> Please show your outrage re the following sickening example of cruelty
> by contacting PETA and the ASPCA at and
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=15bwhVxw-Bg
>
> Remember to include the above URL for this video.

You can clearly read the web address www.petspausa.com on the front of
the machine. Probably best to voice your outrage to them first, and
give them a chance to respond. The person posting the video did say
they stopped the process early. The people in the store could probably
use some training. They should be making sure they're dealing with one
of those rare cats who doesn't mind water before they put him in.

The website shows plenty of pictures of dogs in the thing, but no cats.
They do mention cats in one part of the description.

RobZip
January 26th 07, 07:11 PM
"Stick Waver" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> True enough and sad that they own the name. PETA, while having a few -
>> note that , FEW - good points in their crusade for animals, is
>> overshadowed by a crackpot, lunatic fringe element within their ranks
>> that totally alienates most normal folks who come in contact with them.
>
> I understand that, but if they can help in this instance, what's the harm
> in asking?

Certainly no harm..... Have at it, you'll see what they're all about if you
speak to the right person about how much you love your captive animals (
pets).

bookie
January 26th 07, 07:22 PM
On 26 Jan, 14:22, Stick Waver > wrote:
> Please show your outrage re the following sickening example of cruelty
> by contacting PETA and the ASPCA at and
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=15bwhVxw-Bg
>
> Remember to include the above URL for this video.

is this the hideous one of the poor cat being traumatised out of it's
brain? I agree that something needs to be done about this as it does
seem to me to be animal cruelty to distress an animal that much, i
mgiht try to send some thing to the manufacturers.

not sure someone from outside the US of A can report something to their
version of the RSPCA (is that what the ASPCA is?), thankfully along
with declawing this hideous machine is not in my country and i very
much doubt it will ever arrive (we ain't too bothered about mucky pups
this side of the pond you know, we liek our animals earthy)

bookie

IBen Getiner
January 26th 07, 08:39 PM
Stick Waver wrote:
> Please show your outrage re the following sickening example of cruelty
> by contacting PETA and the ASPCA at and
>
>
> http://youtube.com/watc99h?v=15bwhVxw-Bg
>
>
> Remember to include the above URL for this video.


But It's got a 4-1/2 star rating! You're in the ****ing minority.
I see no problem with it. It's people like YOU who have the problem.
Always out to stifle other people's freedom of expression... And all
because you're governed by your illogical and ever-changing
feeeeeeelings..


LOL....!!

IBen

Lynne
January 26th 07, 10:11 PM
on Fri, 26 Jan 2007 19:11:08 GMT, "RobZip" <no > wrote:

> Certainly no harm..... Have at it, you'll see what they're all about
> if you speak to the right person about how much you love your captive
> animals ( pets).

Yep, yep.

http://petakillsanimals.com/index.cfm

--
Lynne

bookie
January 27th 07, 12:18 AM
On 26 Jan, 20:39, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
> Stick Waver wrote:
> > Please show your outrage re the following sickening example of cruelty
> > by contacting PETA and the ASPCA at and
>
> >http://youtube.com/watc99h?v=15bwhVxw-Bg
>
> > Remember to include the above URL for this video.But It's got a 4-1/2 star rating! You're in the ****ing minority.
> I see no problem with it. It's people like YOU who have the problem.
> Always out to stifle other people's freedom of expression... And all
> because you're governed by your illogical and ever-changing
> feeeeeeelings..
>
> LOL....!!
>
> IBen
oh just **** off you ****

IBen Getiner
January 27th 07, 12:21 AM
On Jan 26, 2:11*pm, "RobZip" <no > wrote:
> "Stick Waver" > wrote in m...
>
>
>
> >> True enough and sad that they own the name. PETA, while having a few -
> >> note that , FEW - good points in their crusade for animals, is
> >> overshadowed by a crackpot, lunatic fringe element within their ranks
> >> that totally alienates most normal folks who come in contact with them.
>
> > I understand that, but if they can help in this instance, what's the harm
> > in asking?Certainly no harm..... Have at it, you'll see what they're all about if you
> speak to the right person about how much you love your captive animals (
> pets).


"Captive animals"... LOL...!! My best friend told me back twenty years
ago that the SPCA's real agenda was to do away with all forms of
private pet ownership. I told her she was crazy, but it looks like she
was right.
I want you to tell me how the animal will survive in the wild
(especially after being de-clawed)? Not mention, many of our pets
wouldn't even be here if it were not for the demand for ownership. They
were ****ing BRED to be owned. Stupid moronic SOBs...

Speak out against any and all animal rights groups. Do whatever you can
against them. It's the best thing you kan do for the future of private
pet ownership..


IBen Getiner

bookie
January 27th 07, 12:24 AM
On 26 Jan, 22:11, Lynne > wrote:
> on Fri, 26 Jan 2007 19:11:08 GMT, "RobZip" <no > wrote:
>
> > Certainly no harm..... Have at it, you'll see what they're all about
> > if you speak to the right person about how much you love your captive
> > animals ( pets).Yep, yep.
>
> http://petakillsanimals.com/index.cfm
>
> --
> Lynne

I am being a bit dumb possibly, but why are they taking in and killing
people's animals? what is the reasoning behind that? i thought they
were just anti-fur myself , but then i don't know much abut them, they
are not that vocal in the UK as far as i know

bookie

Lynne
January 27th 07, 03:55 AM
on Sat, 27 Jan 2007 00:21:28 GMT, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:

> "Captive animals"... LOL...!! My best friend told me back twenty years
> ago that the SPCA's real agenda was to do away with all forms of
> private pet ownership. I told her she was crazy, but it looks like she
> was right.
> I want you to tell me how the animal will survive in the wild
> (especially after being de-clawed)? Not mention, many of our pets
> wouldn't even be here if it were not for the demand for ownership. They
> were ****ing BRED to be owned. Stupid moronic SOBs...
>
> Speak out against any and all animal rights groups. Do whatever you can
> against them. It's the best thing you kan do for the future of private
> pet ownership..

People confuse Animal Rights with Animal Welfare, and PETA, HSUS and SPCA
count on that. <spit>

--
Lynne

sheelagh
January 27th 07, 02:37 PM
On Jan 26, 5:50 pm, "Stick Waver" > wrote:
> On Jan 26, 11:38 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > On Jan 26, 2:36 pm, Lynne > wrote:
>
> > > on Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:22:18 GMT, Stick Waver > wrote:
>
> > > > Please show your outrage re the following sickening example of cruelty
> > > > by contacting PETA and the ASPCA at and
> > > >
>
> > > >http://youtube.com/watch?v=15bwhVxw-Bg
>
> > > > Remember to include the above URL for this video.uh, PETA is NOT a proponent of pets. If they had their way, no one would
> > > have pet cats, dogs or anything. Their name, People for the Ethical
> > > Treatment of Animals is a misnomer and they have a pretty ugly history. Do
> > > some research.Forgive my ignorance, but what does misnomer mean Lynne?Only those who don't ask questions are ignorant :-)
>
> Misnomer means mis-named.
Thank you.It help's to understand.
S:o)

bookie
January 27th 07, 07:59 PM
On 27 Jan, 03:55, Lynne > wrote:
> on Sat, 27 Jan 2007 00:21:28 GMT, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > "Captive animals"... LOL...!! My best friend told me back twenty years
> > ago that the SPCA's real agenda was to do away with all forms of
> > private pet ownership. I told her she was crazy, but it looks like she
> > was right.
> > I want you to tell me how the animal will survive in the wild
> > (especially after being de-clawed)? Not mention, many of our pets
> > wouldn't even be here if it were not for the demand for ownership. They
> > were ****ing BRED to be owned. Stupid moronic SOBs...
>
> > Speak out against any and all animal rights groups. Do whatever you can
> > against them. It's the best thing you kan do for the future of private
> > pet ownership..People confuse Animal Rights with Animal Welfare, and PETA, HSUS and SPCA
> count on that. <spit>
>
apart from PETA i have not heard of the others you mention, what do
the initials stadn for and what do they actually do? what is your
equivalent of the RSPCA (royal society for prevention of cruelty to
animals, looks after animal welfare inthis country whether it be pets,
livestock, anything, sadly underfunded charity which does excellent
work but often has it's hands tied as to prosecuting nasty animal
abusers)?

bookie

chatnoir
January 28th 07, 05:39 AM
On Jan 26, 5:21 pm, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
> On Jan 26, 2:11?pm, "RobZip" <no > wrote:
>
> > "Stick Waver" > wrote in m...
>
> > >> True enough and sad that they own the name. PETA, while having a few -
> > >> note that , FEW - good points in their crusade for animals, is
> > >> overshadowed by a crackpot, lunatic fringe element within their ranks
> > >> that totally alienates most normal folks who come in contact with them.
>
> > > I understand that, but if they can help in this instance, what's the harm
> > > in asking?Certainly no harm..... Have at it, you'll see what they're all about if you
> > speak to the right person about how much you love your captive animals (
> > pets)."Captive animals"... LOL...!! My best friend told me back twenty years
> ago that the SPCA's real agenda was to do away with all forms of
> private pet ownership. I told her she was crazy, but it looks like she
> was right.
> I want you to tell me how the animal will survive in the wild
> (especially after being de-clawed)? Not mention, many of our pets
> wouldn't even be here if it were not for the demand for ownership. They
> were ****ing BRED to be owned. Stupid moronic SOBs...
>
> Speak out against any and all animal rights groups. Do whatever you can
> against them. It's the best thing you kan do for the future of private
> pet ownership..
>
> IBen Getiner


It can go deeper than that! A friend of mine knew some AR
individuals! They would have preferred to see elephants go extinct
than to have them hunted for any reason!

IBen Getiner
January 29th 07, 02:14 AM
On Jan 28, 12:39�am, "chatnoir" > wrote:
> On Jan 26, 5:21 pm, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 26, 2:11?pm, "RobZip" <no > wrote:
>
> > > "Stick Waver" > wrote in m...
>
> > > >> True enough and sad that they own the name. PETA, while having a few -
> > > >> note that , FEW - good points in their crusade for animals, is
> > > >> overshadowed by a crackpot, lunatic fringe element within their ranks
> > > >> that totally alienates most normal folks who come in contact with them.
>
> > > > I understand that, but if they can help in this instance, what's the harm
> > > > in asking?Certainly no harm..... Have at it, you'll see what they're all about if you
> > > speak to the right person about how much you love your captive animals (
> > > pets)."Captive animals"... LOL...!! My best friend told me back twenty years
> > ago that the SPCA's real agenda was to do away with all forms of
> > private pet ownership. I told her she was crazy, but it looks like she
> > was right.
> > I want you to tell me how the animal will survive in the wild
> > (especially after being de-clawed)? Not mention, many of our pets
> > wouldn't even be here if it were not for the demand for ownership. They
> > were ****ing BRED to be owned. Stupid moronic SOBs...
>
> > Speak out against any and all animal rights groups. Do whatever you can
> > against them. It's the best thing you kan do for the future of private
> > pet ownership..
>
> >IBen GetinerIt can go deeper than that! *A friend of mine knew some AR
> individuals! *They would have preferred to see elephants go extinct
> than to have them hunted for any reason!- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

Kooks. Mentally ill people. So hung up on their feeeeeelings that they
forget that they also have a brain.
Only a mentally ill or mentally imbalanced individual does what you
just said. These are the same types of defectives who insisted that
the already-overcrowded lifeboats return to the sea of drowning masses
at the Titanic disaster.
These people are CRAZY. We have a name for people like this....
LIBERALS. Remember this when you VOTE. You're not just voting a
Republican out... You're also voting a mentally ill liberal KOOK IN.
And one of THEM can do far more damage in four years than TEN
Republican administrations... Hell, it takes us that long just to
purge a four year liberal stain out of the flag.


IBen Getiner

hantayo
February 2nd 07, 07:28 PM
"IBen Getiner" > wrote:

"Captive animals"... LOL...!! My best friend told me back twenty years
ago that the SPCA's real agenda was to do away with all forms of
private pet ownership. I told her she was crazy, but it looks like she
was right.
I want you to tell me how the animal will survive in the wild
(especially after being de-clawed)? Not mention, many of our pets
wouldn't even be here if it were not for the demand for ownership. They
were ****ing BRED to be owned. Stupid moronic SOBs...

Speak out against any and all animal rights groups. Do whatever you can
against them. It's the best thing you kan do for the future of private
pet ownership..
IBen Getiner


If it was up to me - there are plenty of people that should *not* be
allowed to have any critters - period. :-( I'm totally against using any
animals in labs, too.
Kathy & Toma girl in spirit...>^.,.^<

Lynne
February 2nd 07, 07:37 PM
on Fri, 02 Feb 2007 19:28:42 GMT, "hantayo" > wrote:

> I'm totally against using any
> animals in labs, too.

I'm not. I'm firmly against treating them inhumanely and I'm against
uneccessary cosmetics and hair care products testing, but testing
pharmaceuticals on humans just isn't possible. So what would you propose
we do to develop life saving medications and treatments? My son wouldn't
be alive if it weren't for animal testing.

--
Lynne

hantayo
February 2nd 07, 08:05 PM
"hantayo" > wrote:
>
>> I'm totally against using any
>> animals in labs, too.
>

"Lynne" > wrote:
> I'm not. I'm firmly against treating them inhumanely and I'm against
> uneccessary cosmetics and hair care products testing, but testing
> pharmaceuticals on humans just isn't possible. So what would you propose
> we do to develop life saving medications and treatments? My son wouldn't
> be alive if it weren't for animal testing.
>
> Lynne

Hi Lynne,
There are other ways & why can't they use humans? I happen to have
Multiple Sclerosis & I'm still against using our fellow animals in labs. I
guess that I was born without that belief that humans are more important
than all other life. Sorry - it's just me.
Kathy & Toma girl in spirit. >^.,.^<


Toma girl's dedication web page:
http://showcase.netins.net/web/motherearthfathersky/toma8k.html
"All that moves is sacred - only by understanding this can you realize the
rhythm of the earth - thereby know how to place your feet...
http://showcase.netins.net/web/motherearthfathersky/

Lynne
February 2nd 07, 08:18 PM
on Fri, 02 Feb 2007 20:05:40 GMT, "hantayo" >
wrote:

> There are other ways & why can't they use humans? I happen to have
> Multiple Sclerosis & I'm still against using our fellow animals in
> labs. I guess that I was born without that belief that humans are more
> important than all other life. Sorry - it's just me.

Well unless you truly value and protect all forms of life, including
insects and spiders, I'd call bull**** on that. Are you a vegan? Do you
own anything made of animal products? Do you feed your cats a strict
vegan diet? (If the answer to that last one is yes, I'd say you really
shouldn't have cats, by the way, because you are doing them a
disservice...)

I love animals far more than the average person, but I am a proponent of
humane medical testing on animals and always will be. Let me stress
_medical_ and _humane_, for clarification. It's foolish to think we can
develop life saving medicines and treatments without it. Testing on
humans does occur, but only at the proper stage of development of the
product. Do you propose we risk killing people to do early testing of
new drugs? People already die during clinical trials, imagine what would
happen if they were the first test subjects? Imagine the lawsuits and
the resulting cost of medicines! Or, wait, do you propose we don't test
drugs at all?? To suggest either approach is quite naive.

If you take any medications for your MS, they were tested on animals. By
using them, you are benefiting from something you are against. Again,
foolish. Also, hypocritical.

--
Lynne

hantayo
February 2nd 07, 08:50 PM
"hantayo" >
> wrote:
>
>> There are other ways & why can't they use humans? I happen to have
>> Multiple Sclerosis & I'm still against using our fellow animals in
>> labs. I guess that I was born without that belief that humans are more
>> important than all other life. Sorry - it's just me.
>

"Lynne" > wrote:
> Well unless you truly value and protect all forms of life, including
> insects and spiders, I'd call bull**** on that. Are you a vegan? Do you
> own anything made of animal products? Do you feed your cats a strict
> vegan diet? (If the answer to that last one is yes, I'd say you really
> shouldn't have cats, by the way, because you are doing them a
> disservice...)


I don't know why you are so ****ed at me. Yes - I do have things that were
made from animal products. And - *NO* - I don't feed my cats a vegan diet.
The way I live my life is to try to leave as small of a footprint as I can.
I gave up beef & pork 10 yrs ago & the only meat that I eat sometimes would
be some fish. I'm not perfect but, at least I know that.

>
> I love animals far more than the average person, but I am a proponent of
> humane medical testing on animals and always will be. Let me stress
> _medical_ and _humane_, for clarification. It's foolish to think we can
> develop life saving medicines and treatments without it. Testing on
> humans does occur, but only at the proper stage of development of the
> product. Do you propose we risk killing people to do early testing of
> new drugs? People already die during clinical trials, imagine what would
> happen if they were the first test subjects? Imagine the lawsuits and
> the resulting cost of medicines! Or, wait, do you propose we don't test
> drugs at all?? To suggest either approach is quite naive.
>
> If you take any medications for your MS, they were tested on animals. By
> using them, you are benefiting from something you are against. Again,
> foolish. Also, hypocritical.
>

No - I don't take any meds for my M.S. - I'm P.P (Primary Progressive) &
the drugs that are used anymore are not recommended for P.P. type. Besides I
don't have any health care - I'm not poor enough for help in this country. I
think calling me a hypocrite isn't very nice but, that's fine if that's how
you feel toward me. Have a nice day....
Kathy & Toma girl in spirit. >^.,.^<


> --
> Lynne

cybercat
February 2nd 07, 08:54 PM
"hantayo" > wrote:
> There are other ways & why can't they use humans? I happen to have
> Multiple Sclerosis & I'm still against using our fellow animals in labs. I
> guess that I was born without that belief that humans are more important
> than all other life. Sorry - it's just me.

Have you volunteered for drug studies yet?



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

hantayo
February 2nd 07, 09:13 PM
>
> "hantayo" > wrote:
>> There are other ways & why can't they use humans? I happen to have
>> Multiple Sclerosis & I'm still against using our fellow animals in labs.
>> I guess that I was born without that belief that humans are more
>> important than all other life. Sorry - it's just me.
>

"cybercat" > wrote:
> Have you volunteered for drug studies yet?
>
>
No. My situation doesn't lend itself to doing that. And if all of you
people need to pick on someone, in order to feel good about yourself, maybe
you should find someone else. If you don't know I just lost the best friend
I've ever had - my 15 yr 4 month old Toma girl - & I don't need this
****..........Kathy

cybercat
February 2nd 07, 09:19 PM
"hantayo" > wrote in message
...
>
>>
>> "hantayo" > wrote:
>>> There are other ways & why can't they use humans? I happen to have
>>> Multiple Sclerosis & I'm still against using our fellow animals in labs.
>>> I guess that I was born without that belief that humans are more
>>> important than all other life. Sorry - it's just me.
>>
>
> "cybercat" > wrote:
>> Have you volunteered for drug studies yet?
>>
>>
> No. My situation doesn't lend itself to doing that. And if all of you
> people need to pick on someone, in order to feel good about yourself,
> maybe you should find someone else. If you don't know I just lost the best
> friend I've ever had - my 15 yr 4 month old Toma girl - & I don't need
> this ****..........Kathy
>

Hey, I just asked a simple question.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Lynne
February 2nd 07, 09:21 PM
on Fri, 02 Feb 2007 20:50:55 GMT, "hantayo" >
wrote:

> I don't know why you are so ****ed at me. Yes - I do have things that
> were
> made from animal products. And - *NO* - I don't feed my cats a vegan
> diet. The way I live my life is to try to leave as small of a
> footprint as I can. I gave up beef & pork 10 yrs ago & the only meat
> that I eat sometimes would be some fish. I'm not perfect but, at least
> I know that.

I'm not ****ed, and I'm definitely not perfect either! You are reading
emotion into my posts that simply isn't there. I think you are naive and
foolish about this issue, but I'm not suggesting you are naive and foolish
in general. I don't know anything about you, except that you are an animal
lover. I respect that, and I understand why you would feel the way that
you do about animal testing, but I don't believe you have thought about all
aspects of the issue. I noticed that you didn't respond to my questions
about what you would suggest other than testing drugs on animals. You see,
I really can't think of any feasible alternatives. Maybe one day, but
that day is not here yet.

--
Lynne

Lynne
February 2nd 07, 09:34 PM
on Fri, 02 Feb 2007 21:13:28 GMT, "hantayo" >
wrote:

> No. My situation doesn't lend itself to doing that. And if all of you
> people need to pick on someone, in order to feel good about yourself,
> maybe you should find someone else. If you don't know I just lost the
> best friend I've ever had - my 15 yr 4 month old Toma girl - & I don't
> need this ****.

No one is picking on you. If it seems that way, it is not intentional.
I think Cybercat asks a valid question. People who speak out against
animal testing usually mean well but don't have a full understanding of
the reality of it all. You threw out a statement in a discussion group.
It is being discussed now.

Abolishing medical testing on animals is just not possible. At least not
in anyway I am aware of. OTOH, abolishing the testing of cosmetics, etc.
is something that should have been done a long time ago, IMO.

All that aside, if you need medication that you are not getting, you
could possibly get them by volunteering for clinical trials. These are
the last step before FDA approval and release to the public, and because
of animal (and other) testing, it is generally very safe--but not always
(nothing is, really). If you qualify, you would get the added bonus of
having free medical care by a physician, related to the study, and your
travel expenses would be paid. If you find you are suffering more than
you should, you might consider looking into it.

--
Lynne

hantayo
February 2nd 07, 09:49 PM
"hantayo" >
> wrote:
>
>> I don't know why you are so ****ed at me. Yes - I do have things that
>> were
>> made from animal products. And - *NO* - I don't feed my cats a vegan
>> diet. The way I live my life is to try to leave as small of a
>> footprint as I can. I gave up beef & pork 10 yrs ago & the only meat
>> that I eat sometimes would be some fish. I'm not perfect but, at least
>> I know that.
>


"Lynne" > wrote:
> I'm not ****ed, and I'm definitely not perfect either! You are reading
> emotion into my posts that simply isn't there. I think you are naive and
> foolish about this issue, but I'm not suggesting you are naive and foolish
> in general. I don't know anything about you, except that you are an
> animal
> lover. I respect that, and I understand why you would feel the way that
> you do about animal testing, but I don't believe you have thought about
> all
> aspects of the issue. I noticed that you didn't respond to my questions
> about what you would suggest other than testing drugs on animals. You
> see,
> I really can't think of any feasible alternatives. Maybe one day, but
> that day is not here yet.
>
> Lynne

I've heard that computer models are one way to go. And all I've done is to
think of things from every angle I can. One thing I'm not is naive &/or
foolish - seriously. I'm certainly old enough to have seen & been through
some life changing experiences.
Kathy

Lynne
February 2nd 07, 09:53 PM
on Fri, 02 Feb 2007 21:49:29 GMT, "hantayo" > wrote:

> I've heard that computer models are one way to go.

Riiiiiiiight.

--
Lynne

hantayo
February 2nd 07, 10:21 PM
"hantayo" >
> wrote:
>
>> No. My situation doesn't lend itself to doing that. And if all of you
>> people need to pick on someone, in order to feel good about yourself,
>> maybe you should find someone else. If you don't know I just lost the
>> best friend I've ever had - my 15 yr 4 month old Toma girl - & I don't
>> need this ****.
>

"Lynne" > wrote:
> No one is picking on you. If it seems that way, it is not intentional.
> I think Cybercat asks a valid question. People who speak out against
> animal testing usually mean well but don't have a full understanding of
> the reality of it all. You threw out a statement in a discussion group.
> It is being discussed now.
>


Well - I'm feeling picked on & one reason is because I'm trying to learn
how to live without Toma beside me. She was always there for me & now she
isn't there. So now every time some thing happens it's the first time that I
am going through it without Toma. If anybody out there has or is going
through that - they'll understand what I'm talking about. I use to put my
face in her fur & kiss her little head & now I don't know what to do. We've
been together ever since she was born on Aug. 31, 1991.
Anyway - I'm basically home bound & I live out in the middle of no where -
miles from where they would be running any clinical trials. I don't go
anywhere. Plus - like I said people that are P.P. are basically a lost
cause. It's just the way it goes.
Kathy


> Abolishing medical testing on animals is just not possible. At least not
> in anyway I am aware of. OTOH, abolishing the testing of cosmetics, etc.
> is something that should have been done a long time ago, IMO.
>
> All that aside, if you need medication that you are not getting, you
> could possibly get them by volunteering for clinical trials. These are
> the last step before FDA approval and release to the public, and because
> of animal (and other) testing, it is generally very safe--but not always
> (nothing is, really). If you qualify, you would get the added bonus of
> having free medical care by a physician, related to the study, and your
> travel expenses would be paid. If you find you are suffering more than
> you should, you might consider looking into it.
>
> --
> Lynne

AZ Nomad
February 2nd 07, 11:53 PM
On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:22:18 -0600, Stick Waver > wrote:


>Please show your outrage re the following sickening example of cruelty
>by contacting PETA and the ASPCA at and


>http://youtube.com/watch?v=15bwhVxw-Bg


>Remember to include the above URL for this video.

Don't bother with the PETA. They don't give a **** about animals;
they simply froth with hatred against mankind.

cybercat
February 3rd 07, 12:42 AM
"hantayo" > wrote
>
> Well - I'm feeling picked on & one reason is because I'm trying to learn
> how to live without Toma beside me. She was always there for me & now she
> isn't there. So now every time some thing happens it's the first time that
> I am going through it without Toma. If anybody out there has or is going
> through that - they'll understand what I'm talking about. I use to put my
> face in her fur & kiss her little head & now I don't know what to do.
> We've been together ever since she was born on Aug. 31, 1991.

I really do know how you feel. My 20-year old died in 2001. I still
grieve for her.

Two months after she died, I went to a shelter and adopted a young
adult cat. Maybe when you are ready, you could let another little
sweetie into your life. So many need the kind of love you have to give.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

IBen Getiner
February 3rd 07, 01:33 AM
On Feb 2, 2:28�pm, "hantayo" > wrote:
> "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> "Captive animals"... LOL...!! My best friend told me back twenty years
> ago that the SPCA's real agenda was to do away with all forms of
> private pet ownership. I told her she was crazy, but it looks like she
> was right.
> I want you to tell me how the animal will survive in the wild
> (especially after being de-clawed)? Not mention, many of our pets
> wouldn't even be here if it were not for the demand for ownership. They
> were ****ing BRED to be owned. Stupid moronic SOBs...
>
> Speak out against any and all animal rights groups. Do whatever you can
> against them. It's the best thing you kan do for the future of private
> pet ownership..IBen Getiner
>
> *If it was up to me - there are plenty of people that should *not* be
> allowed to have any critters - period. :-( *

I think the same thing about some people having children. If I could,
I would see to it that these 'some people' would never again breed.
But the funny thing is, it would be people like you who would be the
first ones up to try and shoot down any laws like that.

> I'm totally against using any
> animals in labs, too.
> Kathy & Toma girl in spirit...>^.,.^<

Why? Are you saying that hundreds of millions of humans should suffer
needlessly just to save a few animals? You must not hold yourself as a
member of the human race in very high esteem (that or you're a ****ing
nut). You are far more valuable than a hundred animals. Not to me
personally but to those who love you... You're obviously young. Your
idealistic immaturity shines thru loud and clear. Just wait till you
have kids and one of them has an agonizing and wasting disease. One
that will surely bring a early end to their youthful days. And then in
the midst of your initial sorrow, you learn that there is a treatment
available. One that can restore some sense of normalcy to their lives.
And you wouldn't take it simply because we used animals to discover
it? And then you'd deny that to someone else's kid? You got your
priorities all wrong. But don't worry... Life will straighten all that
out for you, yes indeed...! Give it time. The one thing that you have
plenty of. Now.


IBen

IBen Getiner
February 3rd 07, 01:34 AM
On Feb 2, 2:28�pm, "hantayo" > wrote:
> "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> "Captive animals"... LOL...!! My best friend told me back twenty years
> ago that the SPCA's real agenda was to do away with all forms of
> private pet ownership. I told her she was crazy, but it looks like she
> was right.
> I want you to tell me how the animal will survive in the wild
> (especially after being de-clawed)? Not mention, many of our pets
> wouldn't even be here if it were not for the demand for ownership. They
> were ****ing BRED to be owned. Stupid moronic SOBs...
>
> Speak out against any and all animal rights groups. Do whatever you can
> against them. It's the best thing you kan do for the future of private
> pet ownership..IBen Getiner
>
> *If it was up to me - there are plenty of people that should *not* be
> allowed to have any critters - period. :-( *

I think the same thing about some people having children. If I could,
I would see to it that these 'some people' would never again breed.
But the funny thing is, it would be people like you who would be the
first ones up to try and shoot down any laws like that.

> I'm totally against using any
> animals in labs, too.
> Kathy & Toma girl in spirit...>^.,.^<

Why? Are you saying that hundreds of millions of humans should suffer
needlessly just to save a few animals? You must not hold yourself as a
member of the human race in very high esteem (that or you're a ****ing
nut). You are far more valuable than a hundred animals. Not to me
personally but to those who love you... You're obviously young. Your
idealistic immaturity shines thru loud and clear. Just wait till you
have kids and one of them has an agonizing and wasting disease. One
that will surely bring a early end to their youthful days. And then in
the midst of your initial sorrow, you learn that there is a treatment
available. One that can restore some sense of normalcy to their lives.
And you wouldn't take it simply because we used animals to discover
it? And then you'd deny that to someone else's kid? You got your
priorities all wrong. But don't worry... Life will straighten all that
out for you, yes indeed...! Give it time. Time... the one thing that
you have plenty of. For now.


IBen Getiner

IBen Getiner
February 3rd 07, 01:38 AM
On Feb 2, 2:37�pm, Lynne > wrote:
> on Fri, 02 Feb 2007 19:28:42 GMT, "hantayo" > wrote:
>
> > I'm totally against using any
> > animals in labs, too.

<snip>

> but testing
> pharmaceuticals on humans just isn't possible. *So what would you propose
> we do to develop life saving medications and treatments? *My son wouldn't
> be alive if it weren't for animal testing.
>
> --
> Lynne

She proposes to not think about that.


IBen Getiner

hantayo
February 3rd 07, 03:31 AM
> "hantayo" > wrote
>>
>> Well - I'm feeling picked on & one reason is because I'm trying to learn
>> how to live without Toma beside me. She was always there for me & now she
>> isn't there. So now every time some thing happens it's the first time
>> that I am going through it without Toma. If anybody out there has or is
>> going through that - they'll understand what I'm talking about. I use to
>> put my face in her fur & kiss her little head & now I don't know what to
>> do. We've been together ever since she was born on Aug. 31, 1991.
>

"cybercat" > wrote:
> I really do know how you feel. My 20-year old died in 2001. I still
> grieve for her.
>
> Two months after she died, I went to a shelter and adopted a young
> adult cat. Maybe when you are ready, you could let another little
> sweetie into your life. So many need the kind of love you have to give.
>
>
Sorry about biting your head off - I'm just having a devil of a day. I'm
sorry that you lost your 20 yr old - it's so hard. :-( CRF is a horrible
disease & it seems to be way too common anymore.
We do have other cats but, they are outside cats. Toma didn't want any
other critters living inside & since she was my house cat we did it her way.
I've been working on trying to see if one of them would be willing to learn
to use a litter box. Time will tell.
Kathy & Toma girl in spirit. >^.,.^<

Stick Waver
February 3rd 07, 03:19 PM
AZ Nomad wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:22:18 -0600, Stick Waver > wrote:
>
>
>
>>Please show your outrage re the following sickening example of cruelty
>>by contacting PETA and the ASPCA at and
>
>
>
>>http://youtube.com/watch?v=15bwhVxw-Bg
>
>
>
>>Remember to include the above URL for this video.
>
>
> Don't bother with the PETA. They don't give a **** about animals;
> they simply froth with hatred against mankind.

I used to think that, too. That everything PETA had a political agenda
attached to it. But this response seemed genuine and helpful:


<< Thank you for contacting PETA about the animal cruelty video you
found on YouTube.com.

We share your concern about this important issue; we have received
many complaints about this video. The information has been forwarded
to the appropriate staffers in our Domestic Animal and Wildlife Rescue
& Information (DAWR&I) Department for their review.

We also recommend you voice your concern by filing a complaint at
http://www.ic3.gov, a Web-based reporting center developed by the FBI
to combat Internet fraud and other forms of internet crime, being sure
to stress the influence that this video may have on additional cases
of cruelty. To learn more about actions you can take in response to
Web sites depicting cruelty to animals, see
http://www.PETA.org/actioncenter/onlinecruelty.asp.

For more information about how you can help animals, please visit
PETAs Web site http://www.PETA.org/actioncenter.

Thanks again for bringing this issue to our attention and for all you
do to help animals!

Sincerely,

Elizabeth Collins
Senior Correspondent
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals >>

AZ Nomad
February 3rd 07, 03:47 PM
On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 09:19:10 -0600, Stick Waver > wrote:


>AZ Nomad wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:22:18 -0600, Stick Waver > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Please show your outrage re the following sickening example of cruelty
>>>by contacting PETA and the ASPCA at and
>>
>>
>>
>>>http://youtube.com/watch?v=15bwhVxw-Bg
>>
>>
>>
>>>Remember to include the above URL for this video.
>>
>>
>> Don't bother with the PETA. They don't give a **** about animals;
>> they simply froth with hatred against mankind.

>I used to think that, too. That everything PETA had a political agenda
>attached to it. But this response seemed genuine and helpful:


><< Thank you for contacting PETA about the animal cruelty video you
>found on YouTube.com.

I just don't trust the extremists. I wouldn't put it past them to be
staging the cruelty just to garner some support.

Lynne
February 3rd 07, 06:29 PM
on Sat, 03 Feb 2007 15:47:21 GMT, AZ Nomad >
wrote:

> I just don't trust the extremists. I wouldn't put it past them to be
> staging the cruelty just to garner some support.

There is no reason to suspect them in this case, but it is definitely
PETA's MO. They are generally a hell of a lot more cruel when they stage
animal abuse. <spit>

--
Lynne

IBen Getiner
February 6th 07, 10:09 AM
On Feb 3, 10:19�am, Stick Waver > wrote:
> AZ Nomad wrote:
> > On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:22:18 -0600, Stick Waver > wrote:
>
> >>Please show your outrage re the following sickening example of cruelty
> >>by contacting PETA and the ASPCA at *and
>
> >>http://youtube.com/watch?v=15bwhVxw-Bg
>
> >>Remember to include the above URL for this video.
>
> > Don't bother with the PETA. *They don't give a **** about animals;
> > they simply froth with hatred against mankind. *
>
> I used to think that, too. That everything PETA had a political agenda
> attached to it. But this response seemed genuine and helpful:
>

Yes, as I'm sure the Communists first appeared to be. ****ing
moron.... The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Use your
brain, if you have one.


> << Thank you for contacting PETA about the animal cruelty video you
> found on YouTube.com.
>
> We share your concern about this important issue; we have received
> many complaints about this video. The information has been forwarded
> to the appropriate staffers in our Domestic Animal and Wildlife Rescue
> & Information (DAWR&I) Department for their review.
>
> We also

<snip mind-rot>

> do to help animals!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Elizabeth Collins
> Senior Correspondent
> People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals >>- Hide quoted text -
>

IOW: Mentally ill, morally displaced KOOK....

IBen Getiner

IBen Getiner
February 6th 07, 10:22 AM
On Feb 3, 1:29�pm, Lynne > wrote:
> on Sat, 03 Feb 2007 15:47:21 GMT, AZ Nomad >
> wrote:
>
> > I just don't trust the extremists. *I wouldn't put it past them to be
> > staging the cruelty just to garner some support.
>
> There is no reason to suspect them in this case, but it is definitely
> PETA's MO. *They are generally a hell of a lot more cruel when they stage
> animal abuse. *<spit>
>
> --
> Lynne

They're into mind control. They understand the power of mind control,
especially when coupled with the vehicle of total mass-media support.
Something that they wish for desperately, but thankfully as of this
writing do not yet have. It's 'save the whales' today. A cause that
most of sheep in this country went right down the primrose path with.
But tomorrow it'll be... 'the law says you have to be a vegetarian
because animals are people too'. You'd better watch where your step
falls when lending any, and I do mean ANY support to these people.
They're not crazy. They're evil. And they want more... MUCH more.


IBen Getiner