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Penny
February 2nd 07, 05:58 PM
I am trying to find out if there is an alternative to declawing my cat. I have a 2 year old son who loves our cat and our dog. All three of them play together. The other day the three of them were in a pile on the floor and our cat, Juliet, scratched my son's ear, enough to make him bleed. Juliet also bit his ear. It was swelling so fast and bleeding, so I rushed him to the doctor. The doctor said that cats carry a deadly disease in their claws and I needed to be very cautious when they play together. So, my problem is that I do not want to get rid of my cat and I have heard awful things about declawing. My son's health is my first priority. I can prevent Juliet from hurting him by having her declawed. So my question is, can I protect my son's health and not hurt Juliet?

Wendy
February 2nd 07, 07:26 PM
Yes you can protect your son's health. Monitor the interaction between your
child and the animals and teach him how to behave around them. The child
didn't know any better but was apparently hurting the cat while wrestling
and Juliet protected herself because nobody else would. It's not the cat's
fault that your son got hurt but yours. Small children should NEVER be left
unattended around animals. They don't realize when they are hurting the
animal and you can't expect your pets not to defend themselves.

Sometimes even normal interaction with a cat can result in a minor scratch.
To help avoid them you can take your cat to a groomer and have soft paws
applied or do it yourself at home. They are soft rubber caps that fit over
your cat's claws. http://www.softpaws.com/

I can't believe you even considered declawing the cat. Please re-home it
first.

W



"Penny" > wrote in message
...
>
> I am trying to find out if there is an alternative to declawing my cat.
> I have a 2 year old son who loves our cat and our dog. All three of
> them play together. The other day the three of them were in a pile on
> the floor and our cat, Juliet, scratched my son's ear, enough to make
> him bleed. Juliet also bit his ear. It was swelling so fast and
> bleeding, so I rushed him to the doctor. The doctor said that cats
> carry a deadly disease in their claws and I needed to be very cautious
> when they play together. So, my problem is that I do not want to get
> rid of my cat and I have heard awful things about declawing. My son's
> health is my first priority. I can prevent Juliet from hurting him by
> having her declawed. So my question is, can I protect my son's health
> and not hurt Juliet?
>
>
>
>
> --
> Penny

cybercat
February 2nd 07, 07:33 PM
"Penny" > wrote in message
...
>
> I am trying to find out if there is an alternative to declawing my cat.
> I have a 2 year old son who loves our cat and our dog. All three of
> them play together. The other day the three of them were in a pile on
> the floor and our cat, Juliet, scratched my son's ear, enough to make
> him bleed. Juliet also bit his ear. It was swelling so fast and
> bleeding, so I rushed him to the doctor. The doctor said that cats
> carry a deadly disease in their claws and I needed to be very cautious
> when they play together. So, my problem is that I do not want to get
> rid of my cat and I have heard awful things about declawing. My son's
> health is my first priority. I can prevent Juliet from hurting him by
> having her declawed. So my question is, can I protect my son's health
> and not hurt Juliet?

Yes, and very easily. Get these:

http://tinyurl.com/2plh69


for $5, and when you have a friend with you, one of you roll kitty up
in an old towel with one paw sticking out and just snip the tips of
kitty's claws. Once a month will do it.

Also, any time kitty puts her claws out when playing clap and
say "NO" loudly.

Don't play with her with your hands, use a feather-on-a-string
kind of thing.

Your doctor, by the way, was wildly exaggerating.

Your son will learn so much from interacting with kitty every day.
You can teach him a lifetime of goodness via Juliet.

Don't teach him it is okay to mutilate an animal for your
convenience.

(Plus, I declawed my first cat and she wound up becoming a
biter--and she never trusted me after that. It changed everything.)

How about some pics of Julia? ;)



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Lynne
February 2nd 07, 07:34 PM
on Fri, 02 Feb 2007 18:26:54 GMT, "Wendy" > wrote:

> Yes you can protect your son's health. Monitor the interaction between
> your child and the animals and teach him how to behave around them.
> The child didn't know any better but was apparently hurting the cat
> while wrestling and Juliet protected herself because nobody else
> would. It's not the cat's fault that your son got hurt but yours.
> Small children should NEVER be left unattended around animals. They
> don't realize when they are hurting the animal and you can't expect
> your pets not to defend themselves.
>
> Sometimes even normal interaction with a cat can result in a minor
> scratch. To help avoid them you can take your cat to a groomer and
> have soft paws applied or do it yourself at home. They are soft rubber
> caps that fit over your cat's claws. http://www.softpaws.com/
>
> I can't believe you even considered declawing the cat. Please re-home
> it first.

I agree 100% with everything here.

--
Lynne

Lynne
February 2nd 07, 07:34 PM
on Fri, 02 Feb 2007 18:34:09 GMT, Lynne >
wrote:

> I agree 100% with everything here.

I should also add that I had cats before I had babies and declawing them
never crossed my mind. We never had problems because I always supervised
my children.

--
Lynne

cindys
February 2nd 07, 08:02 PM
"Wendy" > wrote in message
. ..
> Yes you can protect your son's health. Monitor the interaction between
> your child and the animals and teach him how to behave around them. The
> child didn't know any better but was apparently hurting the cat while
> wrestling and Juliet protected herself because nobody else would. It's not
> the cat's fault that your son got hurt but yours. Small children should
> NEVER be left unattended around animals. They don't realize when they are
> hurting the animal and you can't expect your pets not to defend
> themselves.
>
> Sometimes even normal interaction with a cat can result in a minor
> scratch. To help avoid them you can take your cat to a groomer and have
> soft paws applied or do it yourself at home. They are soft rubber caps
> that fit over your cat's claws. http://www.softpaws.com/
>
> I can't believe you even considered declawing the cat. Please re-home it
> first.
----------------
I can vouch for Softpaws. They worked great for my cat. When my son was
beginning to crawl, he crawled over to Alex who was perched on a chair. A
swipe of the paw, and my son had a scratch on his face. The way somebody
explained this to me was as follows: (I don't know if this is true or not,
but it sounded plausible). The cat sees another creature who is about his
size and on all fours (just like the cat), but the cat knows the creature is
not his kind, and the child is staring at the cat, eyeball to eyeball, so
the cat lets the child know who's in charge. I was told that once my son
could walk, I would not have this problem, and it was absolutely true. In
the meantime, we clipped Alex's claws and got Softpaws. They are soft
flexible rubber caps that are glued over the cats claws. They generally
don't fall off and only need to be replaced when the cat's claws grow out.
They worked great, and we didn't need to use them for very long.

FTR, I also agree 100% that children don't have any business wrestling with
animals. Children need to be taught how to behave around animals. When Daisy
first arrived as a foster (she is now one of my permanent cats), my son (who
was about 8 years old by then) came up to me crying, saying that Daisy had
scratched his face. I told him that if she scratched his face, he must have
been in her face, and that he had only himself to blame. Animals generally
need to be protected from children, not the other way around. You can't
fault an animal for defending himself/herself.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Rene S.
February 2nd 07, 09:04 PM
I agree with the advice that's been given here. If Softpaws don't work
for you, keeping Juliet's claws trimmed regularly will help. (Your vet
can show you how far to clip.)

The doctor was probably referring to something called "cat scratch
disease:" http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/infections/bacterial_viral/cat_scratch.html
I understand this disease is relatively rare. It's a cat bite that's
more of a danger, as a cat's mouth naturally harbors lots of bacteria.
Always wash a scratch or bite with soap and water and apply Neosporin,
and keep a close eye on the wounds.

cybercat
February 2nd 07, 09:08 PM
Penny" > wrote in message
...
>
> I am trying to find out if there is an alternative to declawing my cat.
> I have a 2 year old son who loves our cat and our dog. All three of
> them play together. The other day the three of them were in a pile on
> the floor and our cat, Juliet, scratched my son's ear, enough to make
> him bleed. Juliet also bit his ear. It was swelling so fast and
> bleeding, so I rushed him to the doctor. The doctor said that cats
> carry a deadly disease in their claws and I needed to be very cautious
> when they play together. So, my problem is that I do not want to get
> rid of my cat and I have heard awful things about declawing. My son's
> health is my first priority. I can prevent Juliet from hurting him by
> having her declawed. So my question is, can I protect my son's health
> and not hurt Juliet?

Yes, and very easily. Get these:

http://tinyurl.com/2plh69


for $5, and when you have a friend with you, one of you roll kitty up
in an old towel with one paw sticking out and just snip the tips of
kitty's claws. Once a month will do it.

Also, any time kitty puts her claws out when playing clap and
say "NO" loudly.

Don't play with her with your hands, use a feather-on-a-string
kind of thing.

Your doctor, by the way, was wildly exaggerating.

Your son will learn so much from interacting with kitty every day.
You can teach him a lifetime of goodness via Juliet.

Don't teach him it is okay to mutilate an animal for your
convenience.

(Plus, I declawed my first cat and she wound up becoming a
biter--and she never trusted me after that. It changed everything.)

How about some pics of Julia? ;)




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

bookie
February 2nd 07, 11:37 PM
On 2 Feb, 16:58, Penny > wrote:
> I am trying to find out if there is an alternative to declawing my cat.
> I have a 2 year old son who loves our cat and our dog. All three of
> them play together. The other day the three of them were in a pile on
> the floor and our cat, Juliet, scratched my son's ear, enough to make
> him bleed. Juliet also bit his ear. It was swelling so fast and
> bleeding, so I rushed him to the doctor. The doctor said that cats
> carry a deadly disease in their claws and I needed to be very cautious
> when they play together. So, my problem is that I do not want to get
> rid of my cat and I have heard awful things about declawing. My son's
> health is my first priority. I can prevent Juliet from hurting him by
> having her declawed. So my question is, can I protect my son's health
> and not hurt Juliet?
>
> --
i agree with everything said by the other posters about not leaving
little kids with animals, kids as young as 2 don't really understand
that a cat is not a plaything and is not a toy to be pulled about and
annoyed, so either you need to be there to supervise him with her and
stop him annoying her OR just let him learn the hard way that if he
does pull her about she will scratch him when he gets too rough with
her and scares her.

Remember that to your cat your son is a huge animal much bigger than
herself, very threatening by his size, and he probably doesnt' know
his own strength or that other animals/people can feel pain and upset
just like he can (no I am not saying he is thick or a retard or
anything, simple child psychology states that toddlers do not develop
a theory of mind, which is what is required to feel empathy for others
suffering, until the age of 4 years, if at all). Therefore little
lessons like 'when you pull the cats tail she will turn around and
scratch you' are very valuable and probably more so to a small child
who learns more by experience than from being told. Through these
little lessons he will earn respect for your beautiful cat and to be
gentle with her and that she is a princess who deserves respect and to
be worshipped (as all cats do of course).

and don't worry about her scratching your son, this doctor was
scaremongering, throughout my life I have been scratched and bitten by
many dogs, cats, even a terrapin at one point, stung by bees, wasps,
mosquitoes, etc. All it has done is made me more hardy, and in my
former years gave me a respect for animals that they are not toys but
free thinking creatures who deserve to not have their personal space
invaded by some marauding child (even if said child just wanted to
cuddle the big doggy in the park). The likelihood that your son has
caught somethign from a simple cat scratch is extremely low, don't
worry about it, if anything it will have exposed him to some good old
fashioned germs and built up his immune system, something which isn't
happening with a lot of kids these days who are being wrapped up in
cotton woll too much by their molly-coddling parents.

Please remember that Juliet would not scratch anyone out of spite or
just to be mean or malicious, cats only scratch or bite to try to
defend themselves when they are scared or feel threatened. Your son
may not have been doing anything he thought was threatening but again
think about how much bigger he is than her and how he must appear to
her and how his behaviour which may only be 'playing' in his mind may
feel like a threat from a larger animal to her.

lastly DO NOT GET YOUR CAT DECLAWED save your money and your cat from
a lifetime of misery and just teach your son to leave the cat alone
and back off when she displays certain 'warning signals' that she has
had enough of his 'play' eg tail swishing, ears flat back, growling.
It will much better for everyone in the long term.

cheers Bookie

-L.
February 3rd 07, 07:44 AM
Penny wrote:
> I am trying to find out if there is an alternative to declawing my cat.
> I have a 2 year old son who loves our cat and our dog. All three of
> them play together. The other day the three of them were in a pile on
> the floor and our cat, Juliet, scratched my son's ear, enough to make
> him bleed. Juliet also bit his ear. It was swelling so fast and
> bleeding, so I rushed him to the doctor. The doctor said that cats
> carry a deadly disease in their claws and I needed to be very cautious
> when they play together. So, my problem is that I do not want to get
> rid of my cat and I have heard awful things about declawing. My son's
> health is my first priority. I can prevent Juliet from hurting him by
> having her declawed. So my question is, can I protect my son's health
> and not hurt Juliet?

WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!
WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!
WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!
WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!
WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!
WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!

That's my head on my desk.

It's been fun guys, it really has. I simply cannot take any more of
these completely assinine posts. Have a good life - I love you all.
You know where to find me, if you want to. :)
xoxo,
-L.

Rhonda
February 3rd 07, 09:36 AM
-L, take a break, take a Usenet vacation, then come back when you're
refreshed.

People need advice, people need YOUR advice, because there are vets out
there telling them their cats are going to kill their kids.

See ya soon,

Rhonda

-L. wrote:
>
> It's been fun guys, it really has. I simply cannot take any more of
> these completely assinine posts. Have a good life - I love you all.
> You know where to find me, if you want to. :)
> xoxo,
> -L.
>

bookie
February 3rd 07, 09:25 PM
On 3 Feb, 08:36, Rhonda > wrote:
> -L, take a break, take a Usenet vacation, then come back when you're
> refreshed.
>
> People need advice, people need YOUR advice, because there are vets out
> there telling them their cats are going to kill their kids.
>
> See ya soon,
>
> Rhonda
>
>
>
> -L. wrote:
>
> > It's been fun guys, it really has. I simply cannot take any more of
> > these completely assinine posts. Have a good life - I love you all.
> > You know where to find me, if you want to. :)
> > xoxo,
> > -L.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

i do find i some times feel the same as -L, just fed up of supposedly
intelligent people (well they are using a computer so they do have the
basics of a brain) coming out with stuff which indicates so strongly
that they no common sense whatsoever. how many kids through the ages
have been scratched by cats or other animals? millions! and how many
have died of some horrible disease because of it? probably about 1 or
2, and those probably had some freaky immune system problem anyway.

I just soooooo get bored of these ****s who are overprotective of
either their nauseating children or their furniture and use this as a
good excuse to mutilate and inflict harm on their cats, and I often
find it very hard to keep patiently explaining to these cretins that
declawing is BAD and the consequences for everyone involved (cat and
human) are NOT NICE. It is just like repeating yourself to a bunch of
imbeciles and retards, and it does sap my energy after a while, i get
very bored of it.

I really feel that sometimes I agree with -L's sentiments and I
empathise with her frustrations, now I am off to eat a whole big jar
of white chocolate spread straight out of the jar with a spoon, and
then i am going to climb in the bottom of my bedroom cupboard and have
a cuddle with jessie, and possibly a snooze too while the choccy
spread clogs up my arteries.

bookie

---MIKE---
February 3rd 07, 11:53 PM
bookie, If you are going to binge on chocolate, at least make it dark
chocolate. White is very high in bad fats.


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44 15' N - Elevation 1580')

bookie
February 4th 07, 02:01 AM
On 3 Feb, 22:53, (---MIKE---) wrote:
> bookie, If you are going to binge on chocolate, at least make it dark
> chocolate. White is very high in bad fats.
>
> ---MIKE--->>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>

I know, I have read lots of newpaper reports stating that in fact
plain choc is good for you in moderation and helps protect your heart
because of some things which are in it (flavonoids? dont; know). Thing
is I have a really sweet tooth like that and I just love the pure
sugaryness of white chocolate and I am not keen onthe bitterness of
plain chocolate or the rancid aftertaste you sometimes get in cheapo
dark chocolate.

I only ever buy dark chocolate to bake with, never to eat, I am a true
MilkyBar kid and I like it creamy and white, milk chocolate is ok too,
but not plain; too hard and bitter.

I will probably die young (ish) because of it, especially considering
the high instance of dangerously high cholesterol levels on my mums
side, but at least I will be happy. And don't worry I will make
adequate provision for my cat before I do pop my clogs.

bookie

cindys
February 4th 07, 03:55 PM
"bookie" > wrote in message
ps.com...

>
> I just soooooo get bored of these ****s who are overprotective of
> either their nauseating children or their furniture and use this as a
> good excuse to mutilate and inflict harm on their cats, and I often
> find it very hard to keep patiently explaining to these cretins that
> declawing is BAD and the consequences for everyone involved (cat and
> human) are NOT NICE. It is just like repeating yourself to a bunch of
> imbeciles and retards, and it does sap my energy after a while, i get
> very bored of it.
-----------
Please remember that a lot of well-meaning people really don't get it, and
from the OP's perspective, why wouldn't she believe what her vet said? He's
supposedly the animal expert, isn't he?? I understand your frustration (I
feel it too), but you can attract a lot more flies with honey than with
vinegar. Calling someone a cretin, an imbecile, or a retard is not going to
enamor the person to you or make her want to listen to what you (or the rest
of us) have to say. After all, she did come to this newsgroup *hoping to
find an alternative to the declaw*. Many years ago, I was in her shoes. The
cat rescue group could have called me a cretin too, but instead they just
told me to get the SoftPaws, which I did, and they worked. Now, I'm always
crusading against declawing, but back then, I didn't understand how it
worked, and didn't realize it was so horrible until someone explained it to
me. The last thing we want is for this women to go off and say "those people
on that cat group seem so rude and nasty, unlike my veterinarian who seems
so nice and kind." Once you start calling people names, they close their
ears and run the other way and then they are convinced the veterinarian is
right, and they try to find someone who will reassure them that declawing is
a good idea. We are so much farther ahead if we try to calmly explain to her
where her veterinarian's advice is in error (he probably makes a lot of
money doing declaws), and suggest other ways she can handle the situation,
rather than calling her an idiot and saying her children are nauseating.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

bookie
February 4th 07, 04:40 PM
On 4 Feb, 14:55, "cindys" > wrote:
> "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> ps.com...
>
>
>
> > I just soooooo get bored of these ****s who are overprotective of
> > either their nauseating children or their furniture and use this as a
> > good excuse to mutilate and inflict harm on their cats, and I often
> > find it very hard to keep patiently explaining to these cretins that
> > declawing is BAD and the consequences for everyone involved (cat and
> > human) are NOT NICE. It is just like repeating yourself to a bunch of
> > imbeciles and retards, and it does sap my energy after a while, i get
> > very bored of it.
>
> -----------
> Please remember that a lot of well-meaning people really don't get it, and
> from the OP's perspective, why wouldn't she believe what her vet said? He's
> supposedly the animal expert, isn't he?? I understand your frustration (I
> feel it too), but you can attract a lot more flies with honey than with
> vinegar. Calling someone a cretin, an imbecile, or a retard is not going to
> enamor the person to you or make her want to listen to what you (or the rest
> of us) have to say. After all, she did come to this newsgroup *hoping to
> find an alternative to the declaw*. Many years ago, I was in her shoes. The
> cat rescue group could have called me a cretin too, but instead they just
> told me to get the SoftPaws, which I did, and they worked. Now, I'm always
> crusading against declawing, but back then, I didn't understand how it
> worked, and didn't realize it was so horrible until someone explained it to
> me. The last thing we want is for this women to go off and say "those people
> on that cat group seem so rude and nasty, unlike my veterinarian who seems
> so nice and kind." Once you start calling people names, they close their
> ears and run the other way and then they are convinced the veterinarian is
> right, and they try to find someone who will reassure them that declawing is
> a good idea. We are so much farther ahead if we try to calmly explain to her
> where her veterinarian's advice is in error (he probably makes a lot of
> money doing declaws), and suggest other ways she can handle the situation,
> rather than calling her an idiot and saying her children are nauseating.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.

i was just thinkign out loud, and as i said before i get really tired
of having to tip toe around, i dont' have much patience in my old age
you know.

I thought it was her doctor, the one she took her son to, which was
doing the scaremongering and telling her her son was going to die of
some deadly and highly infectious disease passed on by cat scratches?
maybe I didn't read the post propoerly (too busy seeing red) but i
didn't mention of a vet tryign to sell highly expensive declawing
surgery.
if vet try to push expensive surgery which involved unnecessary
mutilation of an animal I would call that unethical and contact
whatever professional body vets are a member of in your country.

bookie

Wendy
February 4th 07, 05:02 PM
"cindys" > wrote in message
...
>
> "bookie" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
>
>>
>> I just soooooo get bored of these ****s who are overprotective of
>> either their nauseating children or their furniture and use this as a
>> good excuse to mutilate and inflict harm on their cats, and I often
>> find it very hard to keep patiently explaining to these cretins that
>> declawing is BAD and the consequences for everyone involved (cat and
>> human) are NOT NICE. It is just like repeating yourself to a bunch of
>> imbeciles and retards, and it does sap my energy after a while, i get
>> very bored of it.
> -----------
> Please remember that a lot of well-meaning people really don't get it, and
> from the OP's perspective, why wouldn't she believe what her vet said?
> He's supposedly the animal expert, isn't he?? I understand your
> frustration (I feel it too), but you can attract a lot more flies with
> honey than with vinegar. Calling someone a cretin, an imbecile, or a
> retard is not going to enamor the person to you or make her want to listen
> to what you (or the rest of us) have to say. After all, she did come to
> this newsgroup *hoping to find an alternative to the declaw*. Many years
> ago, I was in her shoes. The cat rescue group could have called me a
> cretin too, but instead they just told me to get the SoftPaws, which I
> did, and they worked. Now, I'm always crusading against declawing, but
> back then, I didn't understand how it worked, and didn't realize it was so
> horrible until someone explained it to me. The last thing we want is for
> this women to go off and say "those people on that cat group seem so rude
> and nasty, unlike my veterinarian who seems so nice and kind." Once you
> start calling people names, they close their ears and run the other way
> and then they are convinced the veterinarian is right, and they try to
> find someone who will reassure them that declawing is a good idea. We are
> so much farther ahead if we try to calmly explain to her where her
> veterinarian's advice is in error (he probably makes a lot of money doing
> declaws), and suggest other ways she can handle the situation, rather than
> calling her an idiot and saying her children are nauseating.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
>

For the record then - de-clawing isn't the removal of just the claw. It is
the amputation of the last bone and attached claw on each toe that is done.
It is like removing the tips of one's fingers at the last knuckle - 10
amputations for a front de-claw and 18 if the back are done also. Then kitty
is expected to be able to walk on them and dig in the litter box like a good
kitty.

It is not possible to just remove just the claw. It is too integrated with
the bone to successfully do so.

W

sheelagh
February 4th 07, 05:20 PM
On 4 Feb, 16:02, "Wendy" > wrote:
> "cindys" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "bookie" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
>
> >> I just soooooo get bored of these ****s who are overprotective of
> >> either their nauseating children or their furniture and use this as a
> >> good excuse to mutilate and inflict harm on their cats, and I often
> >> find it very hard to keep patiently explaining to these cretins that
> >> declawing is BAD and the consequences for everyone involved (cat and
> >> human) are NOT NICE. It is just like repeating yourself to a bunch of
> >> imbeciles and retards, and it does sap my energy after a while, i get
> >> very bored of it.
> > -----------
> > Please remember that a lot of well-meaning people really don't get it, and
> > from the OP's perspective, why wouldn't she believe what her vet said?
> > He's supposedly the animal expert, isn't he?? I understand your
> > frustration (I feel it too), but you can attract a lot more flies with
> > honey than with vinegar. Calling someone a cretin, an imbecile, or a
> > retard is not going to enamor the person to you or make her want to listen
> > to what you (or the rest of us) have to say. After all, she did come to
> > this newsgroup *hoping to find an alternative to the declaw*. Many years
> > ago, I was in her shoes. The cat rescue group could have called me a
> > cretin too, but instead they just told me to get the SoftPaws, which I
> > did, and they worked. Now, I'm always crusading against declawing, but
> > back then, I didn't understand how it worked, and didn't realize it was so
> > horrible until someone explained it to me. The last thing we want is for
> > this women to go off and say "those people on that cat group seem so rude
> > and nasty, unlike my veterinarian who seems so nice and kind." Once you
> > start calling people names, they close their ears and run the other way
> > and then they are convinced the veterinarian is right, and they try to
> > find someone who will reassure them that declawing is a good idea. We are
> > so much farther ahead if we try to calmly explain to her where her
> > veterinarian's advice is in error (he probably makes a lot of money doing
> > declaws), and suggest other ways she can handle the situation, rather than
> > calling her an idiot and saying her children are nauseating.
> > Best regards,
> > ---Cindy S.
>
> For the record then - de-clawing isn't the removal of just the claw. It is
> the amputation of the last bone and attached claw on each toe that is done.
> It is like removing the tips of one's fingers at the last knuckle - 10
> amputations for a front de-claw and 18 if the back are done also. Then kitty
> is expected to be able to walk on them and dig in the litter box like a good
> kitty.
>
> It is not possible to just remove just the claw. It is too integrated with
> the bone to successfully do so.
>
> W- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Because declawing isn't a normal practise over on this side of the
pond, it is not something that we generally think about I suppose.

I am glad that you brought up for debate though, because like all
things, you never look into things...until it affects you personally.

Reading your post Wendy, is utterly horrifying.
I have been watching this post occasionally rather than commenting,
because I don't know very much about it.
I had no idea that it was more like an amputation!!!
That is horribly shocking....
I find it hard to believe that people willingly put their cats through
this "knowing" what they are doing?????
That is terrible!
Does everyone do this as routine to their cats?
Horrifying is an understatement actually..I feel physically sick
actually..
However, knowledge, is power...If I ever meet anyone that is
contemplating what you are explaining, I will be sure to send them to
a site where it explains in as graphic detail as possible, that they
intend to do to their cat...YUK!
S;o(

cindys
February 4th 07, 06:20 PM
"bookie" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On 4 Feb, 14:55, "cindys" > wrote:
>> "bookie" > wrote in message
>>
>> ps.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > I just soooooo get bored of these ****s who are overprotective of
>> > either their nauseating children or their furniture and use this as a
>> > good excuse to mutilate and inflict harm on their cats, and I often
>> > find it very hard to keep patiently explaining to these cretins that
>> > declawing is BAD and the consequences for everyone involved (cat and
>> > human) are NOT NICE. It is just like repeating yourself to a bunch of
>> > imbeciles and retards, and it does sap my energy after a while, i get
>> > very bored of it.
>>
>> -----------
>> Please remember that a lot of well-meaning people really don't get it,
>> and
>> from the OP's perspective, why wouldn't she believe what her vet said?
>> He's
>> supposedly the animal expert, isn't he?? I understand your frustration (I
>> feel it too), but you can attract a lot more flies with honey than with
>> vinegar. Calling someone a cretin, an imbecile, or a retard is not going
>> to
>> enamor the person to you or make her want to listen to what you (or the
>> rest
>> of us) have to say. After all, she did come to this newsgroup *hoping to
>> find an alternative to the declaw*. Many years ago, I was in her shoes.
>> The
>> cat rescue group could have called me a cretin too, but instead they just
>> told me to get the SoftPaws, which I did, and they worked. Now, I'm
>> always
>> crusading against declawing, but back then, I didn't understand how it
>> worked, and didn't realize it was so horrible until someone explained it
>> to
>> me. The last thing we want is for this women to go off and say "those
>> people
>> on that cat group seem so rude and nasty, unlike my veterinarian who
>> seems
>> so nice and kind." Once you start calling people names, they close their
>> ears and run the other way and then they are convinced the veterinarian
>> is
>> right, and they try to find someone who will reassure them that declawing
>> is
>> a good idea. We are so much farther ahead if we try to calmly explain to
>> her
>> where her veterinarian's advice is in error (he probably makes a lot of
>> money doing declaws), and suggest other ways she can handle the
>> situation,
>> rather than calling her an idiot and saying her children are nauseating.
>> Best regards,
>> ---Cindy S.
>
> i was just thinkign out loud, and as i said before i get really tired
> of having to tip toe around, i dont' have much patience in my old age
> you know.

I understand. I feel exactly the same way you do. Unfortunately, I have a
tendency to come on strong with other people, and I always see it backfire.
I was absolutely begging with one of my extended family members not to have
her cat declawed (the third cat they had had declawed), but she did it
anyway. I was crying. And wasn't even as if she had the *excuse* that the
cat had scratched either her child or the furniture. For her, as for many
people, it is simply part of the package of adopting a new cat. Veterinarian
sometimes give a discount if the declaw is done along with the spay or
neuter (because the animal only requires anesthesia once).

>
> I thought it was her doctor, the one she took her son to, which was
> doing the scaremongering and telling her her son was going to die of
> some deadly and highly infectious disease passed on by cat scratches?
> maybe I didn't read the post propoerly (too busy seeing red)

You're right. I misread.

>but i
> didn't mention of a vet tryign to sell highly expensive declawing
> surgery.

That was my speculation.

> if vet try to push expensive surgery which involved unnecessary
> mutilation of an animal I would call that unethical and contact
> whatever professional body vets are a member of in your country.

While I've never known a vet to *push* the procedure, a lot of them don't
discourage it either. I have never had a vet suggest it to me, but I can
tell you from personal experience that many years ago when I inquired about
it and asked the vet wasn't it horribly cruel? I was reassured that it was
really no big deal. I would like to think that the mentality is different
now, but in the USA, plenty of veterinarians do declaws. Personally, I would
like to see the whole thing outlawed across the board nationally.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Wendy
February 4th 07, 08:35 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On 4 Feb, 16:02, "Wendy" > wrote:
>> "cindys" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>> For the record then - de-clawing isn't the removal of just the claw. It
>> is
>> the amputation of the last bone and attached claw on each toe that is
>> done.
>> It is like removing the tips of one's fingers at the last knuckle - 10
>> amputations for a front de-claw and 18 if the back are done also. Then
>> kitty
>> is expected to be able to walk on them and dig in the litter box like a
>> good
>> kitty.
>>
>> It is not possible to just remove just the claw. It is too integrated
>> with
>> the bone to successfully do so.
>>
>> W- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Because declawing isn't a normal practise over on this side of the
> pond, it is not something that we generally think about I suppose.
>
> I am glad that you brought up for debate though, because like all
> things, you never look into things...until it affects you personally.
>
> Reading your post Wendy, is utterly horrifying.
> I have been watching this post occasionally rather than commenting,
> because I don't know very much about it.
> I had no idea that it was more like an amputation!!!
> That is horribly shocking....
> I find it hard to believe that people willingly put their cats through
> this "knowing" what they are doing?????
> That is terrible!
> Does everyone do this as routine to their cats?
> Horrifying is an understatement actually..I feel physically sick
> actually..
> However, knowledge, is power...If I ever meet anyone that is
> contemplating what you are explaining, I will be sure to send them to
> a site where it explains in as graphic detail as possible, that they
> intend to do to their cat...YUK!
> S;o(
>

No everyone doesn't do this as routine <shudder> although I have heard of
some vets more interested in their pocketbook then ethics presenting it as
so. Some people have no idea what this procedure entails and others know
full well and do it anyway.

Apparently there are physicians who are adding to the problem too. I guess I
shouldn't be surprised. I recently was bitten (my fault ... stupidity) by a
cat I had just trapped from a feral colony. She got me between the knuckles
(index finger and middle finger). She also must have connected with bone
because she knocked out one of her lower canine teeth (fortunately a baby
tooth). The hand swelled pretty badly so I ended up at the doctor. He
prescribed antibiotics and then said that I either needed to get rabies
shots or take the cat to be tested ..... then. As testing a cat for rabies
involves killing the cat I chose the shots. When the doctor heard of my
decision later he was horrified and his comment was he would have killed the
cat in a heartbeat rather than get the shots. They're only shots for
goodness sake - nothing like the horror stories I had heard when I was a kid
and he should have known that. I will give him a hard time about it next
time I see him.

W

Lynne
February 4th 07, 11:27 PM
on Sun, 04 Feb 2007 19:35:30 GMT, "Wendy" > wrote:

> When the doctor heard of my
> decision later he was horrified and his comment was he would have
> killed the cat in a heartbeat rather than get the shots. They're only
> shots for goodness sake - nothing like the horror stories I had heard
> when I was a kid and he should have known that. I will give him a hard
> time about it next time I see him.

That disgusts me. Good for you for doing the right thing! Rabies shots
*used* to be a nightmare for people, but that is simply not the case
anymore.

I wouldn't patronize that doctor again, and I'd be sure to tell him exactly
why.

My family doctor is a huge animal lover, and in fact recommended we get a
dog for my son one year when he was very, very sick and unable to attend
school--even though he was allergic. He instructed me on all the ways to
minimize the allergy problem, and they were very effective. It was a great
decision for all of us, and we haven't been without a dog since.

--
Lynne

22brix
February 5th 07, 02:19 AM
"Wendy" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> On 4 Feb, 16:02, "Wendy" > wrote:
>>> "cindys" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> For the record then - de-clawing isn't the removal of just the claw. It
>>> is
>>> the amputation of the last bone and attached claw on each toe that is
>>> done.
>>> It is like removing the tips of one's fingers at the last knuckle - 10
>>> amputations for a front de-claw and 18 if the back are done also. Then
>>> kitty
>>> is expected to be able to walk on them and dig in the litter box like a
>>> good
>>> kitty.
>>>
>>> It is not possible to just remove just the claw. It is too integrated
>>> with
>>> the bone to successfully do so.
>>>
>>> W- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Because declawing isn't a normal practise over on this side of the
>> pond, it is not something that we generally think about I suppose.
>>
>> I am glad that you brought up for debate though, because like all
>> things, you never look into things...until it affects you personally.
>>
>> Reading your post Wendy, is utterly horrifying.
>> I have been watching this post occasionally rather than commenting,
>> because I don't know very much about it.
>> I had no idea that it was more like an amputation!!!
>> That is horribly shocking....
>> I find it hard to believe that people willingly put their cats through
>> this "knowing" what they are doing?????
>> That is terrible!
>> Does everyone do this as routine to their cats?
>> Horrifying is an understatement actually..I feel physically sick
>> actually..
>> However, knowledge, is power...If I ever meet anyone that is
>> contemplating what you are explaining, I will be sure to send them to
>> a site where it explains in as graphic detail as possible, that they
>> intend to do to their cat...YUK!
>> S;o(
>>
>
> No everyone doesn't do this as routine <shudder> although I have heard of
> some vets more interested in their pocketbook then ethics presenting it as
> so. Some people have no idea what this procedure entails and others know
> full well and do it anyway.
>
> Apparently there are physicians who are adding to the problem too. I guess
> I shouldn't be surprised. I recently was bitten (my fault ... stupidity)
> by a cat I had just trapped from a feral colony. She got me between the
> knuckles (index finger and middle finger). She also must have connected
> with bone because she knocked out one of her lower canine teeth
> (fortunately a baby tooth). The hand swelled pretty badly so I ended up at
> the doctor. He prescribed antibiotics and then said that I either needed
> to get rabies shots or take the cat to be tested ..... then. As testing a
> cat for rabies involves killing the cat I chose the shots. When the doctor
> heard of my decision later he was horrified and his comment was he would
> have killed the cat in a heartbeat rather than get the shots. They're only
> shots for goodness sake - nothing like the horror stories I had heard when
> I was a kid and he should have known that. I will give him a hard time
> about it next time I see him.
>
> W


Unfortunately when it comes to rabies the animal usually loses. I do rabies
testing for our county public health department and we see so many animals
euthanized for really stupid reasons because there "may" have been an
exposure. One of the saddest was a Saint Bernard who had slobbered on
someone--the poor beast was euthanized and tested for rabies. I'd like to
see a St. Bernard that doesn't slobber. Rabies is a real risk in much if
not most of the US (lucky Brits!) and there are times when testing is
warranted. It is a horrible disease, painful and invariably fatal but so
many times testing seems needless. People panic, the shots are expensive
(and a lot of people hate shots!) and many people don't want to pay for
their animals to be quarantined for several weeks.

In the lab, we (the microbiologists) are vaccinated against rabies and that
might be a good idea for those who work extensively with feral animals,
including cats. Unfortunately many of the cats we end up testing for rabies
are cats that are injured or being rescued that bite their would-be
rescuers. Also, many people don't keep up on the rabies vaccines.

People can get cat-scratch disease by cat scratches and by biting, so
declawing ain't going to help and in healthy people it's not that serious.
(It can be a real problem for people that are immunocompromised.) On the
other hand, cat bites can be very serious, especially if the bite is deep.
A couple of years ago one of the county animal control officers ended up
spending several weeks in the hospital on IV antibiotics due to a deep cat
bite to the bone.

Just my 2 cents

Bonnie

Wendy
February 5th 07, 12:11 PM
"22brix" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Wendy" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>> On 4 Feb, 16:02, "Wendy" > wrote:
>>>> "cindys" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>

>
>
> Unfortunately when it comes to rabies the animal usually loses. I do
> rabies testing for our county public health department and we see so many
> animals euthanized for really stupid reasons because there "may" have been
> an exposure. One of the saddest was a Saint Bernard who had slobbered on
> someone--the poor beast was euthanized and tested for rabies. I'd like to
> see a St. Bernard that doesn't slobber. Rabies is a real risk in much if
> not most of the US (lucky Brits!) and there are times when testing is
> warranted. It is a horrible disease, painful and invariably fatal but so
> many times testing seems needless. People panic, the shots are expensive
> (and a lot of people hate shots!) and many people don't want to pay for
> their animals to be quarantined for several weeks.
>
> In the lab, we (the microbiologists) are vaccinated against rabies and
> that might be a good idea for those who work extensively with feral
> animals, including cats. Unfortunately many of the cats we end up testing
> for rabies are cats that are injured or being rescued that bite their
> would-be rescuers. Also, many people don't keep up on the rabies
> vaccines.
>
> People can get cat-scratch disease by cat scratches and by biting, so
> declawing ain't going to help and in healthy people it's not that serious.
> (It can be a real problem for people that are immunocompromised.) On the
> other hand, cat bites can be very serious, especially if the bite is deep.
> A couple of years ago one of the county animal control officers ended up
> spending several weeks in the hospital on IV antibiotics due to a deep cat
> bite to the bone.
>
> Just my 2 cents
>
> Bonnie
>
>
I asked if the series of shots I just got would protect me if I got bitten
again and they said I'd have to get the series all over again if that
happened. What type of shot do they give to you and how often do you need to
get the vaccination?

W

22brix
February 5th 07, 04:17 PM
"Wendy" > wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>
> I asked if the series of shots I just got would protect me if I got bitten
> again and they said I'd have to get the series all over again if that
> happened. What type of shot do they give to you and how often do you need
> to get the vaccination?
>
> W
>
If you were bitten you probably got immunoglobulin which is sort of a
passive immunity--as opposed to a vaccine. What I got is an actual vaccine
so I'm actively making antibodies to rabies. Our rabies titers are checked
periodically and if the titer is low we then get re-vaccinated. I think in
20 some years of rabies testing I've been re-vaccinated once. If I were to
be bitten, I would then be given immunoglobulin but not as many shots as
someone who had not been vaccinated.

HTH, Bonnie

Pijewlchio
February 5th 07, 04:57 PM
"22brix" > wrote in message
...

> What I got is an actual vaccine
> so I'm actively making antibodies to rabies.
> HTH, Bonnie

I should go back and put you comments in context.
What do you mean you are actively making antibodies?

You talking about an antibody someone gave someone you know
or YOU work in a lab with a white coat?

Thanks...

22brix
February 6th 07, 02:50 AM
"Pijewlchio" > wrote in message
...
>
> "22brix" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> What I got is an actual vaccine
>> so I'm actively making antibodies to rabies.
>> HTH, Bonnie
>
> I should go back and put you comments in context.
> What do you mean you are actively making antibodies?
>
> You talking about an antibody someone gave someone you know
> or YOU work in a lab with a white coat?
>
> Thanks...
>
>
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. When you're given a rabies vaccine your body
starts making antibodies against rabies.

I work in a lab with a white coat but am not involved in making
antibodies--I am a microbiologist working in Public Health.

Pijewlchio
February 6th 07, 04:48 AM
"22brix" > wrote in message
...

> I'm sorry I wasn't clear. When you're given a rabies vaccine your body
> starts making antibodies against rabies.

At first I understood it like you meant it, but then I second guessed your
meaning.

> I work in a lab with a white coat but am not involved in making
> antibodies--I am a microbiologist working in Public Health.

Well then here's wishing you good success with your works.

22brix
February 6th 07, 05:48 AM
"Pijewlchio" > wrote in message
...
>
> "22brix" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> I'm sorry I wasn't clear. When you're given a rabies vaccine your body
>> starts making antibodies against rabies.
>
> At first I understood it like you meant it, but then I second guessed your
> meaning.

Well I was half asleep when I wrote it! I'm not a morning person!

>> I work in a lab with a white coat but am not involved in making
>> antibodies--I am a microbiologist working in Public Health.
>
> Well then here's wishing you good success with your works.

Thank you--actually it's pretty enjoyable most of the time!

Bonnie
>

22brix
February 6th 07, 06:08 AM
"Wendy" > wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>
> I asked if the series of shots I just got would protect me if I got bitten
> again and they said I'd have to get the series all over again if that
> happened. What type of shot do they give to you and how often do you need
> to get the vaccination?
>
> W
>

Hi Wendy,

This link to CDC addresses rabies protocol better than I can.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/rabies/prevention&control/preventi.htm

Bonnie

smile2530
February 7th 07, 05:37 AM
On Feb 2, 12:26 pm, "Wendy" > wrote:
> Yes you can protect your son's health. Monitor the interaction between your
> child and the animals and teach him how to behave around them. The child
> didn't know any better but was apparently hurting the cat while wrestling
> and Juliet protected herself because nobody else would. It's not the cat's
> fault that your son got hurt but yours. Small children should NEVER be left
> unattended around animals. They don't realize when they are hurting the
> animal and you can't expect your pets not to defend themselves.
>
> Sometimes even normal interaction with a cat can result in a minor scratch.
> To help avoid them you can take your cat to a groomer and have soft paws
> applied or do it yourself at home. They are soft rubber caps that fit over
> your cat's claws.http://www.softpaws.com/
>
> I can't believe you even considered declawing the cat. Please re-home it
> first.
>
> W
>
> "Penny" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > I am trying to find out if there is an alternative to declawing my cat.
> > I have a 2 year old son who loves our cat and our dog. All three of
> > them play together. The other day the three of them were in a pile on
> > the floor and our cat, Juliet, scratched my son's ear, enough to make
> > him bleed. Juliet also bit his ear. It was swelling so fast and
> > bleeding, so I rushed him to the doctor. The doctor said that cats
> > carry a deadly disease in their claws and I needed to be very cautious
> > when they play together. So, my problem is that I do not want to get
> > rid of my cat and I have heard awful things about declawing. My son's
> > health is my first priority. I can prevent Juliet from hurting him by
> > having her declawed. So my question is, can I protect my son's health
> > and not hurt Juliet?
>
> > --
> > Penny- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I totally agree with the soft paws! They are not that hard to put on
and your furniture is protected. I am against the declawing of cats.
I belive that we need to get the word out on alternative ways such as
Soft Paws!!

Christa