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sheelagh
February 19th 07, 08:58 PM
We were so excited @ the birth of what we thought was our final litter
as breeders, & I was delighted when Blue~Belle had four wonderful
little white mice. She had an easy birth & all was well(2nd Feb 07).
Shortly after then, Lilly became very ill, & had to be taken to the
clinic on the spot, where she was diagnosed with Pyometra..which was a
tale in itself. As I posted at the time, I thought that it was
possible that Lilly has cat flu, but when I asked my [email protected] that time,
she assured me that it couldn't be, because all of our cats were
vaccinated against Flu....
It was not until we got Lilly out of the first surgery & in to the
second surgery, that I got someone willing to me..The new vet took a
full panel of bloods & did a few other tests & confirmed that we did
indeed have a rampant case of mutant flu.5 other cases had been
diagnosed recently in our local are, & out of those 5, only 2cats had
made it through to the other side, &Are still with us to tell the
tale.

This would explain some of the drooling that Lilly was suffering & the
bacterial infection that she contracted after catching flu.
Lilly had a strain of calicivirus which lead to Pneumonia in her
instance.
Once we got her home, I isolated her because I knew in my gut that we
were fighting more than Pyometra here, because Biffy, her ex mate also
started sniffling whilst she was @ the clinic, then the green/yellow
eye secretions started, high temperature and bubbling nose too. I
asked the vet to look at him too, & she did. He was injected with
amoxi & given oral Marobycil @10mg daily . I was also supplied with
spare courses of antibiotics to treat any further cats that contracted
the flu too.
Lilly suffered the worst case, then Biffy was a very close second,
Tazy got the next dose but didn't seem over distressed by it, then
Belle(mummy) got it too. She didn;'t seem to be suffering too much
with it, but I was advised to give her the [email protected] 10mg daily to
help out if the kittens contracted it.
Both Lucy(fur!) & Ringo don't seem affected at all, Tiggy didn't
suffer from it at all either.
As soon as Lilly did get home, I isolated her from all of the other
cats, then started isolating the other cats from each other too. It
would seem that it was like shutting the gate after the horse has
bolted though. The incubation period was well over, & I think that
both mother & kittens were exposed to the flue well before Lilly even
went into the clinic.
Despite isolating them all, & trying to observe clinical cleanliness,
it made no difference at all.
As soon as they started displaying symptoms, & we tried to treat
them, it was looking trying to hold back an enormous tidal wave...It
was impossible..all of the kittens were showing upper respiritory
congestion, one after another, hour by hour...I tried to kid myself
that we might be able to save a few of them, but in reality, it was a
lost cause.
At two weeks old, we were just getting to know who was who & love them
for whom they were too. To watch them race downhill so fast was like
watching the light in their little souls wink out..terrible to observe
& a crying shame to all who were touched by their lives. They were
wonderful babes & loved beyond measure.
Their Poor mother is devastated as we are, but there is nothing I can
do to lessen her grief:o(
We are obviously devastated too, & I can tell you the sorrow that we
feel right now..guilt included for not realising sooner too...
The only consolation to this sad story is that we have still got all
of our adult cats, but it doesn't damped the heat of that loss...only
time will help that one.....
My only other consolation is that now that they have crossed the
Rainbow Bridge, that they suffer no longer & will be with Jasper, who
crossed it last November. He will guide them all to the place where
there is plenty & purrs of peace that envelope them all.
Good Bye Cornelius Fudge, White eye, Nose Blaze, Mittzi the mitted
too, we loved you all & wish you purrs of affection in your new home.
Sheelagh
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Haemorrhagic fever and high mortality associated with feline
calicivirus (FCV) infection

Feline calicivirus (FCV) is one of the cat flu viruses which most
commonly causes signs of upper respiratory tract

disease such as sneezing, nasal discharge, mouth ulceration and
conjunctivitis. Several outbreaks of severe disease associated with
FCV have recently been reported in the USA. In these outbreaks,
swelling of the head and paws was noted as well as other signs
including flu signs, jaundice and bleeding from the nose and the
bowel. Up to half of the affected cats died as a result of this
infection which was caused by a particularly severe strain of FCV.
Both adult cats and kittens were affected by this infection and many
of the cats were vaccinated for FCV suggesting that the vaccines for
this disease are not completely protective for this strain. So far, no
confirmed reports of similar outbreaks have been seen outside the USA
although one unconfirmed report suggested that this strain may also
exist in the UK.

The Veterinary Record, August 2002
did indeed have a rampant case of mutant

cindys
February 19th 07, 09:17 PM
Sheelagh, I was thinking about Belle's kittens this morning and
wondering how they were doing. I was hoping that no news was good
news, but this is terrible news. I am so sorry. Once upon a time, a
mother bird built a nest in the exhaust of our fan. Not realizing
there was a nest of newly hatched baby birds in there, we turned the
fan on at some point. It frightened the mother away. Then, one by one,
her babies got hungry and started looking for her and fell out of the
nest and broke their necks. My husband euthanized two of them (because
their necks were broken, but they were still alive). We tried to save
the others but it was of no use. We thought we had succeeded, but they
were all dead in the morning. It was so depressing. So, I can only
imagine how sad you feel over the loss of Belle's kittens with whom
you had bonded and had a relationship and loved. Thank you for posting
the information about the flu, BTW. It may help to save someone else's
cats. And stop beating yourself up for not reacting sooner. You of all
people know that kittens are unfortunately very fragile. Purrs for you
and Belle.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.


>On Feb 19, 3:58 pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> We were so excited @ the birth of what we thought was our final litter
> as breeders, & I was delighted when Blue~Belle had four wonderful
> little white mice. She had an easy birth & all was well(2nd Feb 07).
> Shortly after then, Lilly became very ill, & had to be taken to the
> clinic on the spot, where she was diagnosed with Pyometra..which was a
> tale in itself. As I posted at the time, I thought that it was
> possible that Lilly has cat flu, but when I asked my [email protected] that time,
> she assured me that it couldn't be, because all of our cats were
> vaccinated against Flu....
> It was not until we got Lilly out of the first surgery & in to the
> second surgery, that I got someone willing to me..The new vet took a
> full panel of bloods & did a few other tests & confirmed that we did
> indeed have a rampant case of mutant flu.5 other cases had been
> diagnosed recently in our local are, & out of those 5, only 2cats had
> made it through to the other side, &Are still with us to tell the
> tale.
>
> This would explain some of the drooling that Lilly was suffering & the
> bacterial infection that she contracted after catching flu.
> Lilly had a strain of calicivirus which lead to Pneumonia in her
> instance.
> Once we got her home, I isolated her because I knew in my gut that we
> were fighting more than Pyometra here, because Biffy, her ex mate also
> started sniffling whilst she was @ the clinic, then the green/yellow
> eye secretions started, high temperature and bubbling nose too. I
> asked the vet to look at him too, & she did. He was injected with
> amoxi & given oral Marobycil @10mg daily . I was also supplied with
> spare courses of antibiotics to treat any further cats that contracted
> the flu too.
> Lilly suffered the worst case, then Biffy was a very close second,
> Tazy got the next dose but didn't seem over distressed by it, then
> Belle(mummy) got it too. She didn;'t seem to be suffering too much
> with it, but I was advised to give her the [email protected] 10mg daily to
> help out if the kittens contracted it.
> Both Lucy(fur!) & Ringo don't seem affected at all, Tiggy didn't
> suffer from it at all either.
> As soon as Lilly did get home, I isolated her from all of the other
> cats, then started isolating the other cats from each other too. It
> would seem that it was like shutting the gate after the horse has
> bolted though. The incubation period was well over, & I think that
> both mother & kittens were exposed to the flue well before Lilly even
> went into the clinic.
> Despite isolating them all, & trying to observe clinical cleanliness,
> it made no difference at all.
> As soon as they started displaying symptoms, & we tried to treat
> them, it was looking trying to hold back an enormous tidal wave...It
> was impossible..all of the kittens were showing upper respiritory
> congestion, one after another, hour by hour...I tried to kid myself
> that we might be able to save a few of them, but in reality, it was a
> lost cause.
> At two weeks old, we were just getting to know who was who & love them
> for whom they were too. To watch them race downhill so fast was like
> watching the light in their little souls wink out..terrible to observe
> & a crying shame to all who were touched by their lives. They were
> wonderful babes & loved beyond measure.
> Their Poor mother is devastated as we are, but there is nothing I can
> do to lessen her grief:o(
> We are obviously devastated too, & I can tell you the sorrow that we
> feel right now..guilt included for not realising sooner too...
> The only consolation to this sad story is that we have still got all
> of our adult cats, but it doesn't damped the heat of that loss...only
> time will help that one.....
> My only other consolation is that now that they have crossed the
> Rainbow Bridge, that they suffer no longer & will be with Jasper, who
> crossed it last November. He will guide them all to the place where
> there is plenty & purrs of peace that envelope them all.
> Good Bye Cornelius Fudge, White eye, Nose Blaze, Mittzi the mitted
> too, we loved you all & wish you purrs of affection in your new home.
> Sheelagh
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*----------------------
> Haemorrhagic fever and high mortality associated with feline
> calicivirus (FCV) infection
>
> Feline calicivirus (FCV) is one of the cat flu viruses which most
> commonly causes signs of upper respiratory tract
>
> disease such as sneezing, nasal discharge, mouth ulceration and
> conjunctivitis. Several outbreaks of severe disease associated with
> FCV have recently been reported in the USA. In these outbreaks,
> swelling of the head and paws was noted as well as other signs
> including flu signs, jaundice and bleeding from the nose and the
> bowel. Up to half of the affected cats died as a result of this
> infection which was caused by a particularly severe strain of FCV.
> Both adult cats and kittens were affected by this infection and many
> of the cats were vaccinated for FCV suggesting that the vaccines for
> this disease are not completely protective for this strain. So far, no
> confirmed reports of similar outbreaks have been seen outside the USA
> although one unconfirmed report suggested that this strain may also
> exist in the UK.
>
> The Veterinary Record, August 2002
> did indeed have a rampant case of mutant

Lynne
February 19th 07, 10:02 PM
on Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:58:53 GMT, "sheelagh"
> wrote:

> Their Poor mother is devastated as we are, but there is nothing I can
> do to lessen her grief:o(
> We are obviously devastated too, & I can tell you the sorrow that we
> feel right now..guilt included for not realising sooner too...
> The only consolation to this sad story is that we have still got all
> of our adult cats, but it doesn't damped the heat of that loss...only
> time will help that one.....

Oh, Sheelagh... I'm deeply sorry and terribly sad to hear this news.

Please, whatever else you do, just please don't add guilt on top of the
deep sorrow you are already suffering. You have done a wonderful job
caring for your cats, including those kittens.

You have my deepest sympathy... and quite a lot of my tears, too.

--
Lynne

Annie Wxill
February 19th 07, 10:06 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
oups.com...
.. ...>
....> Good Bye Cornelius Fudge, White eye, Nose Blaze, Mittzi the mitted
> too, we loved you all & wish you purrs of affection in your new home.
> Sheelagh
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sheelagh,

Deepest condolences on your loss.

You did what you could to save them.

Annie

Wendy
February 20th 07, 12:39 AM
So sorry to hear about your kittens.

W


"sheelagh" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> We were so excited @ the birth of what we thought was our final litter
> as breeders, & I was delighted when Blue~Belle had four wonderful
> little white mice. She had an easy birth & all was well(2nd Feb 07).
> Shortly after then, Lilly became very ill, & had to be taken to the
> clinic on the spot, where she was diagnosed with Pyometra..which was a
> tale in itself. As I posted at the time, I thought that it was
> possible that Lilly has cat flu, but when I asked my [email protected] that time,
> she assured me that it couldn't be, because all of our cats were
> vaccinated against Flu....
> It was not until we got Lilly out of the first surgery & in to the
> second surgery, that I got someone willing to me..The new vet took a
> full panel of bloods & did a few other tests & confirmed that we did
> indeed have a rampant case of mutant flu.5 other cases had been
> diagnosed recently in our local are, & out of those 5, only 2cats had
> made it through to the other side, &Are still with us to tell the
> tale.
>
> This would explain some of the drooling that Lilly was suffering & the
> bacterial infection that she contracted after catching flu.
> Lilly had a strain of calicivirus which lead to Pneumonia in her
> instance.
> Once we got her home, I isolated her because I knew in my gut that we
> were fighting more than Pyometra here, because Biffy, her ex mate also
> started sniffling whilst she was @ the clinic, then the green/yellow
> eye secretions started, high temperature and bubbling nose too. I
> asked the vet to look at him too, & she did. He was injected with
> amoxi & given oral Marobycil @10mg daily . I was also supplied with
> spare courses of antibiotics to treat any further cats that contracted
> the flu too.
> Lilly suffered the worst case, then Biffy was a very close second,
> Tazy got the next dose but didn't seem over distressed by it, then
> Belle(mummy) got it too. She didn;'t seem to be suffering too much
> with it, but I was advised to give her the [email protected] 10mg daily to
> help out if the kittens contracted it.
> Both Lucy(fur!) & Ringo don't seem affected at all, Tiggy didn't
> suffer from it at all either.
> As soon as Lilly did get home, I isolated her from all of the other
> cats, then started isolating the other cats from each other too. It
> would seem that it was like shutting the gate after the horse has
> bolted though. The incubation period was well over, & I think that
> both mother & kittens were exposed to the flue well before Lilly even
> went into the clinic.
> Despite isolating them all, & trying to observe clinical cleanliness,
> it made no difference at all.
> As soon as they started displaying symptoms, & we tried to treat
> them, it was looking trying to hold back an enormous tidal wave...It
> was impossible..all of the kittens were showing upper respiritory
> congestion, one after another, hour by hour...I tried to kid myself
> that we might be able to save a few of them, but in reality, it was a
> lost cause.
> At two weeks old, we were just getting to know who was who & love them
> for whom they were too. To watch them race downhill so fast was like
> watching the light in their little souls wink out..terrible to observe
> & a crying shame to all who were touched by their lives. They were
> wonderful babes & loved beyond measure.
> Their Poor mother is devastated as we are, but there is nothing I can
> do to lessen her grief:o(
> We are obviously devastated too, & I can tell you the sorrow that we
> feel right now..guilt included for not realising sooner too...
> The only consolation to this sad story is that we have still got all
> of our adult cats, but it doesn't damped the heat of that loss...only
> time will help that one.....
> My only other consolation is that now that they have crossed the
> Rainbow Bridge, that they suffer no longer & will be with Jasper, who
> crossed it last November. He will guide them all to the place where
> there is plenty & purrs of peace that envelope them all.
> Good Bye Cornelius Fudge, White eye, Nose Blaze, Mittzi the mitted
> too, we loved you all & wish you purrs of affection in your new home.
> Sheelagh
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Haemorrhagic fever and high mortality associated with feline
> calicivirus (FCV) infection
>
> Feline calicivirus (FCV) is one of the cat flu viruses which most
> commonly causes signs of upper respiratory tract
>
> disease such as sneezing, nasal discharge, mouth ulceration and
> conjunctivitis. Several outbreaks of severe disease associated with
> FCV have recently been reported in the USA. In these outbreaks,
> swelling of the head and paws was noted as well as other signs
> including flu signs, jaundice and bleeding from the nose and the
> bowel. Up to half of the affected cats died as a result of this
> infection which was caused by a particularly severe strain of FCV.
> Both adult cats and kittens were affected by this infection and many
> of the cats were vaccinated for FCV suggesting that the vaccines for
> this disease are not completely protective for this strain. So far, no
> confirmed reports of similar outbreaks have been seen outside the USA
> although one unconfirmed report suggested that this strain may also
> exist in the UK.
>
> The Veterinary Record, August 2002
> did indeed have a rampant case of mutant
>

22brix
February 20th 07, 12:46 AM
Oh Sheelagh,

I'm so very sorry. What a horrible, horrible loss. You've already been
through so much already with Jasper last fall and then Lilly. You are a
fabulous cat mom.

You're in my thoughts and my kitties send purrs and head butts your way.

Bonnie

"sheelagh" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> We were so excited @ the birth of what we thought was our final litter
> as breeders, & I was delighted when Blue~Belle had four wonderful
> little white mice. She had an easy birth & all was well(2nd Feb 07).
> Shortly after then, Lilly became very ill, & had to be taken to the
> clinic on the spot, where she was diagnosed with Pyometra..which was a
> tale in itself. As I posted at the time, I thought that it was
> possible that Lilly has cat flu, but when I asked my [email protected] that time,
> she assured me that it couldn't be, because all of our cats were
> vaccinated against Flu....
> It was not until we got Lilly out of the first surgery & in to the
> second surgery, that I got someone willing to me..The new vet took a
> full panel of bloods & did a few other tests & confirmed that we did
> indeed have a rampant case of mutant flu.5 other cases had been
> diagnosed recently in our local are, & out of those 5, only 2cats had
> made it through to the other side, &Are still with us to tell the
> tale.
>
> This would explain some of the drooling that Lilly was suffering & the
> bacterial infection that she contracted after catching flu.
> Lilly had a strain of calicivirus which lead to Pneumonia in her
> instance.
> Once we got her home, I isolated her because I knew in my gut that we
> were fighting more than Pyometra here, because Biffy, her ex mate also
> started sniffling whilst she was @ the clinic, then the green/yellow
> eye secretions started, high temperature and bubbling nose too. I
> asked the vet to look at him too, & she did. He was injected with
> amoxi & given oral Marobycil @10mg daily . I was also supplied with
> spare courses of antibiotics to treat any further cats that contracted
> the flu too.
> Lilly suffered the worst case, then Biffy was a very close second,
> Tazy got the next dose but didn't seem over distressed by it, then
> Belle(mummy) got it too. She didn;'t seem to be suffering too much
> with it, but I was advised to give her the [email protected] 10mg daily to
> help out if the kittens contracted it.
> Both Lucy(fur!) & Ringo don't seem affected at all, Tiggy didn't
> suffer from it at all either.
> As soon as Lilly did get home, I isolated her from all of the other
> cats, then started isolating the other cats from each other too. It
> would seem that it was like shutting the gate after the horse has
> bolted though. The incubation period was well over, & I think that
> both mother & kittens were exposed to the flue well before Lilly even
> went into the clinic.
> Despite isolating them all, & trying to observe clinical cleanliness,
> it made no difference at all.
> As soon as they started displaying symptoms, & we tried to treat
> them, it was looking trying to hold back an enormous tidal wave...It
> was impossible..all of the kittens were showing upper respiritory
> congestion, one after another, hour by hour...I tried to kid myself
> that we might be able to save a few of them, but in reality, it was a
> lost cause.
> At two weeks old, we were just getting to know who was who & love them
> for whom they were too. To watch them race downhill so fast was like
> watching the light in their little souls wink out..terrible to observe
> & a crying shame to all who were touched by their lives. They were
> wonderful babes & loved beyond measure.
> Their Poor mother is devastated as we are, but there is nothing I can
> do to lessen her grief:o(
> We are obviously devastated too, & I can tell you the sorrow that we
> feel right now..guilt included for not realising sooner too...
> The only consolation to this sad story is that we have still got all
> of our adult cats, but it doesn't damped the heat of that loss...only
> time will help that one.....
> My only other consolation is that now that they have crossed the
> Rainbow Bridge, that they suffer no longer & will be with Jasper, who
> crossed it last November. He will guide them all to the place where
> there is plenty & purrs of peace that envelope them all.
> Good Bye Cornelius Fudge, White eye, Nose Blaze, Mittzi the mitted
> too, we loved you all & wish you purrs of affection in your new home.
> Sheelagh
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Haemorrhagic fever and high mortality associated with feline
> calicivirus (FCV) infection
>
> Feline calicivirus (FCV) is one of the cat flu viruses which most
> commonly causes signs of upper respiratory tract
>
> disease such as sneezing, nasal discharge, mouth ulceration and
> conjunctivitis. Several outbreaks of severe disease associated with
> FCV have recently been reported in the USA. In these outbreaks,
> swelling of the head and paws was noted as well as other signs
> including flu signs, jaundice and bleeding from the nose and the
> bowel. Up to half of the affected cats died as a result of this
> infection which was caused by a particularly severe strain of FCV.
> Both adult cats and kittens were affected by this infection and many
> of the cats were vaccinated for FCV suggesting that the vaccines for
> this disease are not completely protective for this strain. So far, no
> confirmed reports of similar outbreaks have been seen outside the USA
> although one unconfirmed report suggested that this strain may also
> exist in the UK.
>
> The Veterinary Record, August 2002
> did indeed have a rampant case of mutant
>

Rhonda
February 20th 07, 02:53 AM
Oh shoot, how horrible. You've had just too much to bear recently.

I'm sorry about the kittens. My condolences to Belle, too.

Sounds like you are lucky that everyone else made it.

Rhonda

sheelagh wrote:
> We were so excited @ the birth of what we thought was our final litter
> as breeders, & I was delighted when Blue~Belle had four wonderful
> little white mice. She had an easy birth & all was well(2nd Feb 07).
> Shortly after then, Lilly became very ill, & had to be taken to the
> clinic on the spot, where she was diagnosed with Pyometra..which was a
> tale in itself. As I posted at the time, I thought that it was
> possible that Lilly has cat flu, but when I asked my [email protected] that time,
> she assured me that it couldn't be, because all of our cats were
> vaccinated against Flu....
> It was not until we got Lilly out of the first surgery & in to the
> second surgery, that I got someone willing to me..The new vet took a
> full panel of bloods & did a few other tests & confirmed that we did
> indeed have a rampant case of mutant flu.5 other cases had been
> diagnosed recently in our local are, & out of those 5, only 2cats had
> made it through to the other side, &Are still with us to tell the
> tale.
>
> This would explain some of the drooling that Lilly was suffering & the
> bacterial infection that she contracted after catching flu.
> Lilly had a strain of calicivirus which lead to Pneumonia in her
> instance.
> Once we got her home, I isolated her because I knew in my gut that we
> were fighting more than Pyometra here, because Biffy, her ex mate also
> started sniffling whilst she was @ the clinic, then the green/yellow
> eye secretions started, high temperature and bubbling nose too. I
> asked the vet to look at him too, & she did. He was injected with
> amoxi & given oral Marobycil @10mg daily . I was also supplied with
> spare courses of antibiotics to treat any further cats that contracted
> the flu too.
> Lilly suffered the worst case, then Biffy was a very close second,
> Tazy got the next dose but didn't seem over distressed by it, then
> Belle(mummy) got it too. She didn;'t seem to be suffering too much
> with it, but I was advised to give her the [email protected] 10mg daily to
> help out if the kittens contracted it.
> Both Lucy(fur!) & Ringo don't seem affected at all, Tiggy didn't
> suffer from it at all either.
> As soon as Lilly did get home, I isolated her from all of the other
> cats, then started isolating the other cats from each other too. It
> would seem that it was like shutting the gate after the horse has
> bolted though. The incubation period was well over, & I think that
> both mother & kittens were exposed to the flue well before Lilly even
> went into the clinic.
> Despite isolating them all, & trying to observe clinical cleanliness,
> it made no difference at all.
> As soon as they started displaying symptoms, & we tried to treat
> them, it was looking trying to hold back an enormous tidal wave...It
> was impossible..all of the kittens were showing upper respiritory
> congestion, one after another, hour by hour...I tried to kid myself
> that we might be able to save a few of them, but in reality, it was a
> lost cause.
> At two weeks old, we were just getting to know who was who & love them
> for whom they were too. To watch them race downhill so fast was like
> watching the light in their little souls wink out..terrible to observe
> & a crying shame to all who were touched by their lives. They were
> wonderful babes & loved beyond measure.
> Their Poor mother is devastated as we are, but there is nothing I can
> do to lessen her grief:o(
> We are obviously devastated too, & I can tell you the sorrow that we
> feel right now..guilt included for not realising sooner too...
> The only consolation to this sad story is that we have still got all
> of our adult cats, but it doesn't damped the heat of that loss...only
> time will help that one.....
> My only other consolation is that now that they have crossed the
> Rainbow Bridge, that they suffer no longer & will be with Jasper, who
> crossed it last November. He will guide them all to the place where
> there is plenty & purrs of peace that envelope them all.
> Good Bye Cornelius Fudge, White eye, Nose Blaze, Mittzi the mitted
> too, we loved you all & wish you purrs of affection in your new home.
> Sheelagh
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Haemorrhagic fever and high mortality associated with feline
> calicivirus (FCV) infection
>
> Feline calicivirus (FCV) is one of the cat flu viruses which most
> commonly causes signs of upper respiratory tract
>
> disease such as sneezing, nasal discharge, mouth ulceration and
> conjunctivitis. Several outbreaks of severe disease associated with
> FCV have recently been reported in the USA. In these outbreaks,
> swelling of the head and paws was noted as well as other signs
> including flu signs, jaundice and bleeding from the nose and the
> bowel. Up to half of the affected cats died as a result of this
> infection which was caused by a particularly severe strain of FCV.
> Both adult cats and kittens were affected by this infection and many
> of the cats were vaccinated for FCV suggesting that the vaccines for
> this disease are not completely protective for this strain. So far, no
> confirmed reports of similar outbreaks have been seen outside the USA
> although one unconfirmed report suggested that this strain may also
> exist in the UK.
>
> The Veterinary Record, August 2002
> did indeed have a rampant case of mutant
>

Matthew
February 20th 07, 05:10 AM
<TEARS>
I am so sorry

"sheelagh" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> We were so excited @ the birth of what we thought was our final litter
> as breeders, & I was delighted when Blue~Belle had four wonderful
> little white mice. She had an easy birth & all was well(2nd Feb 07).
> Shortly after then, Lilly became very ill, & had to be taken to the
> clinic on the spot, where she was diagnosed with Pyometra..which was a
> tale in itself. As I posted at the time, I thought that it was
> possible that Lilly has cat flu, but when I asked my [email protected] that time,
> she assured me that it couldn't be, because all of our cats were
> vaccinated against Flu....
> It was not until we got Lilly out of the first surgery & in to the
> second surgery, that I got someone willing to me..The new vet took a
> full panel of bloods & did a few other tests & confirmed that we did
> indeed have a rampant case of mutant flu.5 other cases had been
> diagnosed recently in our local are, & out of those 5, only 2cats had
> made it through to the other side, &Are still with us to tell the
> tale.
>
> This would explain some of the drooling that Lilly was suffering & the
> bacterial infection that she contracted after catching flu.
> Lilly had a strain of calicivirus which lead to Pneumonia in her
> instance.
> Once we got her home, I isolated her because I knew in my gut that we
> were fighting more than Pyometra here, because Biffy, her ex mate also
> started sniffling whilst she was @ the clinic, then the green/yellow
> eye secretions started, high temperature and bubbling nose too. I
> asked the vet to look at him too, & she did. He was injected with
> amoxi & given oral Marobycil @10mg daily . I was also supplied with
> spare courses of antibiotics to treat any further cats that contracted
> the flu too.
> Lilly suffered the worst case, then Biffy was a very close second,
> Tazy got the next dose but didn't seem over distressed by it, then
> Belle(mummy) got it too. She didn;'t seem to be suffering too much
> with it, but I was advised to give her the [email protected] 10mg daily to
> help out if the kittens contracted it.
> Both Lucy(fur!) & Ringo don't seem affected at all, Tiggy didn't
> suffer from it at all either.
> As soon as Lilly did get home, I isolated her from all of the other
> cats, then started isolating the other cats from each other too. It
> would seem that it was like shutting the gate after the horse has
> bolted though. The incubation period was well over, & I think that
> both mother & kittens were exposed to the flue well before Lilly even
> went into the clinic.
> Despite isolating them all, & trying to observe clinical cleanliness,
> it made no difference at all.
> As soon as they started displaying symptoms, & we tried to treat
> them, it was looking trying to hold back an enormous tidal wave...It
> was impossible..all of the kittens were showing upper respiritory
> congestion, one after another, hour by hour...I tried to kid myself
> that we might be able to save a few of them, but in reality, it was a
> lost cause.
> At two weeks old, we were just getting to know who was who & love them
> for whom they were too. To watch them race downhill so fast was like
> watching the light in their little souls wink out..terrible to observe
> & a crying shame to all who were touched by their lives. They were
> wonderful babes & loved beyond measure.
> Their Poor mother is devastated as we are, but there is nothing I can
> do to lessen her grief:o(
> We are obviously devastated too, & I can tell you the sorrow that we
> feel right now..guilt included for not realising sooner too...
> The only consolation to this sad story is that we have still got all
> of our adult cats, but it doesn't damped the heat of that loss...only
> time will help that one.....
> My only other consolation is that now that they have crossed the
> Rainbow Bridge, that they suffer no longer & will be with Jasper, who
> crossed it last November. He will guide them all to the place where
> there is plenty & purrs of peace that envelope them all.
> Good Bye Cornelius Fudge, White eye, Nose Blaze, Mittzi the mitted
> too, we loved you all & wish you purrs of affection in your new home.
> Sheelagh
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Haemorrhagic fever and high mortality associated with feline
> calicivirus (FCV) infection
>
> Feline calicivirus (FCV) is one of the cat flu viruses which most
> commonly causes signs of upper respiratory tract
>
> disease such as sneezing, nasal discharge, mouth ulceration and
> conjunctivitis. Several outbreaks of severe disease associated with
> FCV have recently been reported in the USA. In these outbreaks,
> swelling of the head and paws was noted as well as other signs
> including flu signs, jaundice and bleeding from the nose and the
> bowel. Up to half of the affected cats died as a result of this
> infection which was caused by a particularly severe strain of FCV.
> Both adult cats and kittens were affected by this infection and many
> of the cats were vaccinated for FCV suggesting that the vaccines for
> this disease are not completely protective for this strain. So far, no
> confirmed reports of similar outbreaks have been seen outside the USA
> although one unconfirmed report suggested that this strain may also
> exist in the UK.
>
> The Veterinary Record, August 2002
> did indeed have a rampant case of mutant
>

bookie
February 20th 07, 05:53 AM
On 19 Feb, 20:58, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> We were so excited @ the birth of what we thought was our final litter
> as breeders, & I was delighted when Blue~Belle had four wonderful
> little white mice. She had an easy birth & all was well(2nd Feb 07).
> Shortly after then, Lilly became very ill, & had to be taken to the
> clinic on the spot, where she was diagnosed with Pyometra..which was a
> tale in itself. As I posted at the time, I thought that it was
> possible that Lilly has cat flu, but when I asked my [email protected] that time,
> she assured me that it couldn't be, because all of our cats were
> vaccinated against Flu....
> It was not until we got Lilly out of the first surgery & in to the
> second surgery, that I got someone willing to me..The new vet took a
> full panel of bloods & did a few other tests & confirmed that we did
> indeed have a rampant case of mutant flu.5 other cases had been
> diagnosed recently in our local are, & out of those 5, only 2cats had
> made it through to the other side, &Are still with us to tell the
> tale.
>
> This would explain some of the drooling that Lilly was suffering & the
> bacterial infection that she contracted after catching flu.
> Lilly had a strain of calicivirus which lead to Pneumonia in her
> instance.
> Once we got her home, I isolated her because I knew in my gut that we
> were fighting more than Pyometra here, because Biffy, her ex mate also
> started sniffling whilst she was @ the clinic, then the green/yellow
> eye secretions started, high temperature and bubbling nose too. I
> asked the vet to look at him too, & she did. He was injected with
> amoxi & given oral Marobycil @10mg daily . I was also supplied with
> spare courses of antibiotics to treat any further cats that contracted
> the flu too.
> Lilly suffered the worst case, then Biffy was a very close second,
> Tazy got the next dose but didn't seem over distressed by it, then
> Belle(mummy) got it too. She didn;'t seem to be suffering too much
> with it, but I was advised to give her the [email protected] 10mg daily to
> help out if the kittens contracted it.
> Both Lucy(fur!) & Ringo don't seem affected at all, Tiggy didn't
> suffer from it at all either.
> As soon as Lilly did get home, I isolated her from all of the other
> cats, then started isolating the other cats from each other too. It
> would seem that it was like shutting the gate after the horse has
> bolted though. The incubation period was well over, & I think that
> both mother & kittens were exposed to the flue well before Lilly even
> went into the clinic.
> Despite isolating them all, & trying to observe clinical cleanliness,
> it made no difference at all.
> As soon as they started displaying symptoms, & we tried to treat
> them, it was looking trying to hold back an enormous tidal wave...It
> was impossible..all of the kittens were showing upper respiritory
> congestion, one after another, hour by hour...I tried to kid myself
> that we might be able to save a few of them, but in reality, it was a
> lost cause.
> At two weeks old, we were just getting to know who was who & love them
> for whom they were too. To watch them race downhill so fast was like
> watching the light in their little souls wink out..terrible to observe
> & a crying shame to all who were touched by their lives. They were
> wonderful babes & loved beyond measure.
> Their Poor mother is devastated as we are, but there is nothing I can
> do to lessen her grief:o(
> We are obviously devastated too, & I can tell you the sorrow that we
> feel right now..guilt included for not realising sooner too...
> The only consolation to this sad story is that we have still got all
> of our adult cats, but it doesn't damped the heat of that loss...only
> time will help that one.....
> My only other consolation is that now that they have crossed the
> Rainbow Bridge, that they suffer no longer & will be with Jasper, who
> crossed it last November. He will guide them all to the place where
> there is plenty & purrs of peace that envelope them all.
> Good Bye Cornelius Fudge, White eye, Nose Blaze, Mittzi the mitted
> too, we loved you all & wish you purrs of affection in your new home.
> Sheelagh
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*----------------------
> Haemorrhagic fever and high mortality associated with feline
> calicivirus (FCV) infection
>
> Feline calicivirus (FCV) is one of the cat flu viruses which most
> commonly causes signs of upper respiratory tract
>
> disease such as sneezing, nasal discharge, mouth ulceration and
> conjunctivitis. Several outbreaks of severe disease associated with
> FCV have recently been reported in the USA. In these outbreaks,
> swelling of the head and paws was noted as well as other signs
> including flu signs, jaundice and bleeding from the nose and the
> bowel. Up to half of the affected cats died as a result of this
> infection which was caused by a particularly severe strain of FCV.
> Both adult cats and kittens were affected by this infection and many
> of the cats were vaccinated for FCV suggesting that the vaccines for
> this disease are not completely protective for this strain. So far, no
> confirmed reports of similar outbreaks have been seen outside the USA
> although one unconfirmed report suggested that this strain may also
> exist in the UK.
>
> The Veterinary Record, August 2002
> did indeed have a rampant case of mutant

those poor kittens, you have my deepest sympathies, i was wondering
why you hadn;t posted in a while with updates on Lilly.
rest assured that all 4 are free from discomfort and pain now over the
rainbow bridge.

another example of poor practise displayed by your ex-vet in not doing
blood tests and considering the possibilty of a mutant strain of flu
in the area, please tell me you will go ahead with the report to the
rcvs now? she should have thought about it, it does not take a genius
to do that, after all the human flu virus, in fact any virus can
quickly mutate into something which is resistant to standard drugs and
which animals are not protected against and that is why old people and
others at risk have to go to get a new flu jab every year.

how is lilly doing now? is she feeling any better, any more photos?

very sad, Bookie

sheelagh
February 20th 07, 04:09 PM
On 20 Feb, 05:53, "bookie" > wrote:
> On 19 Feb, 20:58, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > We were so excited @ the birth of what we thought was our final litter
> > as breeders, & I was delighted when Blue~Belle had four wonderful
> > little white mice. She had an easy birth & all was well(2nd Feb 07).
> > Shortly after then, Lilly became very ill, & had to be taken to the
> > clinic on the spot, where she was diagnosed with Pyometra..which was a
> > tale in itself. As I posted at the time, I thought that it was
> > possible that Lilly has cat flu, but when I asked my [email protected] that time,
> > she assured me that it couldn't be, because all of our cats were
> > vaccinated against Flu....
> > It was not until we got Lilly out of the first surgery & in to the
> > second surgery, that I got someone willing to me..The new vet took a
> > full panel of bloods & did a few other tests & confirmed that we did
> > indeed have a rampant case of mutant flu.5 other cases had been
> > diagnosed recently in our local are, & out of those 5, only 2cats had
> > made it through to the other side, &Are still with us to tell the
> > tale.
>
> > This would explain some of the drooling that Lilly was suffering & the
> > bacterial infection that she contracted after catching flu.
> > Lilly had a strain of calicivirus which lead to Pneumonia in her
> > instance.
> > Once we got her home, I isolated her because I knew in my gut that we
> > were fighting more than Pyometra here, because Biffy, her ex mate also
> > started sniffling whilst she was @ the clinic, then the green/yellow
> > eye secretions started, high temperature and bubbling nose too. I
> > asked the vet to look at him too, & she did. He was injected with
> > amoxi & given oral Marobycil @10mg daily . I was also supplied with
> > spare courses of antibiotics to treat any further cats that contracted
> > the flu too.
> > Lilly suffered the worst case, then Biffy was a very close second,
> > Tazy got the next dose but didn't seem over distressed by it, then
> > Belle(mummy) got it too. She didn;'t seem to be suffering too much
> > with it, but I was advised to give her the [email protected] 10mg daily to
> > help out if the kittens contracted it.
> > Both Lucy(fur!) & Ringo don't seem affected at all, Tiggy didn't
> > suffer from it at all either.
> > As soon as Lilly did get home, I isolated her from all of the other
> > cats, then started isolating the other cats from each other too. It
> > would seem that it was like shutting the gate after the horse has
> > bolted though. The incubation period was well over, & I think that
> > both mother & kittens were exposed to the flue well before Lilly even
> > went into the clinic.
> > Despite isolating them all, & trying to observe clinical cleanliness,
> > it made no difference at all.
> > As soon as they started displaying symptoms, & we tried to treat
> > them, it was looking trying to hold back an enormous tidal wave...It
> > was impossible..all of the kittens were showing upper respiritory
> > congestion, one after another, hour by hour...I tried to kid myself
> > that we might be able to save a few of them, but in reality, it was a
> > lost cause.
> > At two weeks old, we were just getting to know who was who & love them
> > for whom they were too. To watch them race downhill so fast was like
> > watching the light in their little souls wink out..terrible to observe
> > & a crying shame to all who were touched by their lives. They were
> > wonderful babes & loved beyond measure.
> > Their Poor mother is devastated as we are, but there is nothing I can
> > do to lessen her grief:o(
> > We are obviously devastated too, & I can tell you the sorrow that we
> > feel right now..guilt included for not realising sooner too...
> > The only consolation to this sad story is that we have still got all
> > of our adult cats, but it doesn't damped the heat of that loss...only
> > time will help that one.....
> > My only other consolation is that now that they have crossed the
> > Rainbow Bridge, that they suffer no longer & will be with Jasper, who
> > crossed it last November. He will guide them all to the place where
> > there is plenty & purrs of peace that envelope them all.
> > Good Bye Cornelius Fudge, White eye, Nose Blaze, Mittzi the mitted
> > too, we loved you all & wish you purrs of affection in your new home.
> > Sheelagh
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------**----------------------
> > Haemorrhagic fever and high mortality associated with feline
> > calicivirus (FCV) infection
>
> > Feline calicivirus (FCV) is one of the cat flu viruses which most
> > commonly causes signs of upper respiratory tract
>
> > disease such as sneezing, nasal discharge, mouth ulceration and
> > conjunctivitis. Several outbreaks of severe disease associated with
> > FCV have recently been reported in the USA. In these outbreaks,
> > swelling of the head and paws was noted as well as other signs
> > including flu signs, jaundice and bleeding from the nose and the
> > bowel. Up to half of the affected cats died as a result of this
> > infection which was caused by a particularly severe strain of FCV.
> > Both adult cats and kittens were affected by this infection and many
> > of the cats were vaccinated for FCV suggesting that the vaccines for
> > this disease are not completely protective for this strain. So far, no
> > confirmed reports of similar outbreaks have been seen outside the USA
> > although one unconfirmed report suggested that this strain may also
> > exist in the UK.
>
> > The Veterinary Record, August 2002
> > did indeed have a rampant case of mutant
>
> those poor kittens, you have my deepest sympathies, i was wondering
> why you hadn;t posted in a while with updates on Lilly.
> rest assured that all 4 are free from discomfort and pain now over the
> rainbow bridge.
>
> another example of poor practise displayed by your ex-vet in not doing
> blood tests and considering the possibility of a mutant strain of flu
> in the area, please tell me you will go ahead with the report to the
> rcvs now? she should have thought about it, it does not take a genius
> to do that, after all the human flu virus, in fact any virus can
> quickly mutate into something which is resistant to standard drugs and
> which animals are not protected against and that is why old people and
> others at risk have to go to get a new flu jab every year.
>
> how is lilly doing now? is she feeling any better, any more photos?
>
> very sad, Bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

It was a terribly sad process to go through. Depressing, moral sapping
really. It was terribly hard to watch each one die & it didn't matter
how hard we tried to keep them alive, there was *nothing* we could do
to stop it happening.
Fading kittens.

I hoped when it started that even if we could save a couple then it
would have been worth all of the hard work, but when they all did, it
was simply heartbreaking. I would still try as we hard as we did again
if it were to happen all over again, because you have to try, don't
you?

One thing that has happened since the death of the last kitten, Belle
seems to have swung into full call again....?
Is this a normal thing? I have never lost a little of kittens like
this, so I have nothing to compare it to?
It doesn't matter if she does call, she won't get pregnant because she
is isolated, but I noticed her calling this morning & the but neither
boy is shouting back to her because we have no more tom's, The males
have all been done!
Belle is even using the lordosis stance, so best to get her done asap
I think...In a way it must be terribly cruel for her. I am sure it
must have affected her in some way?

Whilst putting all of the cats out into isolation, we had a bit of a
surprise
some while ago, I posted asking whether it would be appropriate to
allow Tiggy to mate because I thought she was calling (baring in mind
we have only had her since last October, & she has never called before
then..)..& everyone told me not to bother...So I took her away from
all of the males & penned her. I thought I had caught her right at the
start of her call, but it looks like she was already got at before I
separated her.
I don't think that she would have many kittens, but it is not the
point...
I have been corresponding with someone who has been advising me on how
to help myself through this terrible run of events, since Lilly was
taken in to clinic,& they have advised me to have the litter aborted.
I contacted my vet this morning who has advised me to take her down
for consultation, before agreeing to.
If I am perfectly honest with myself & all of you too, I am in two
minds as to what to do about this latest fiasco.
Part of me wants to take her down & insist on the kittens being
aborted,& Tiggy spayed, so that I don't have to go through this
situation ever again...
But the other half of me is telling me, take advice from the vet who
is dealing with her, & if he thinks that it is likely to have a decent
outcome, allow her to have them, & have her spayed straight afterwards
as soon as we can.
The situation is entirely of my own making, & I feel guilty for it
happening at all(OTOH I have never seen her in season before so had no
guidelines on what to expect of her &when either..;o(
We have done a complete house clean today & a complete spray with
Sporal D, in case of any fungal spores left, I have autoclaved all of
the animal equipment, & boiled all of their laundry too, then sprayed
it with sporal D for good measure. & when i say house cleaned, I mean
clinical!!
I am in two minds...can I go through this again?
Would I go through this again?
Or, do I allow my final queen to have her small litter? It does seem
rather appropriate and timely to find out now that she is pregnant,
now?
Any thoughts?
And thank you all for the purrs....they are so comforting
I can only say that I am pleased that they suffered no longer than
they had to, & that they are safe on the other side of the Bridge now
S;o)

sheelagh
February 20th 07, 04:38 PM
On 19 Feb, 21:17, "cindys" > wrote:
> Sheelagh, I was thinking about Belle's kittens this morning and
> wondering how they were doing. I was hoping that no news was good
> news, but this is terrible news. I am so sorry. Once upon a time, a
> mother bird built a nest in the exhaust of our fan. Not realizing
> there was a nest of newly hatched baby birds in there, we turned the
> fan on at some point. It frightened the mother away. Then, one by one,
> her babies got hungry and started looking for her and fell out of the
> nest and broke their necks. My husband euthanized two of them (because
> their necks were broken, but they were still alive). We tried to save
> the others but it was of no use. We thought we had succeeded, but they
> were all dead in the morning. It was so depressing. So, I can only
> imagine how sad you feel over the loss of Belle's kittens with whom
> you had bonded and had a relationship and loved. Thank you for posting
> the information about the flu, BTW. It may help to save someone else's
> cats. And stop beating yourself up for not reacting sooner. You of all
> people know that kittens are unfortunately very fragile. Purrs for you
> and Belle.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
>
>
>
> >On Feb 19, 3:58 pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> > We were so excited @ the birth of what we thought was our final litter
> > as breeders, & I was delighted when Blue~Belle had four wonderful
> > little white mice. She had an easy birth & all was well(2nd Feb 07).
> > Shortly after then, Lilly became very ill, & had to be taken to the
> > clinic on the spot, where she was diagnosed with Pyometra..which was a
> > tale in itself. As I posted at the time, I thought that it was
> > possible that Lilly has cat flu, but when I asked my [email protected] that time,
> > she assured me that it couldn't be, because all of our cats were
> > vaccinated against Flu....
> > It was not until we got Lilly out of the first surgery & in to the
> > second surgery, that I got someone willing to me..The new vet took a
> > full panel of bloods & did a few other tests & confirmed that we did
> > indeed have a rampant case of mutant flu.5 other cases had been
> > diagnosed recently in our local are, & out of those 5, only 2cats had
> > made it through to the other side, &Are still with us to tell the
> > tale.
>
> > This would explain some of the drooling that Lilly was suffering & the
> > bacterial infection that she contracted after catching flu.
> > Lilly had a strain of calicivirus which lead to Pneumonia in her
> > instance.
> > Once we got her home, I isolated her because I knew in my gut that we
> > were fighting more than Pyometra here, because Biffy, her ex mate also
> > started sniffling whilst she was @ the clinic, then the green/yellow
> > eye secretions started, high temperature and bubbling nose too. I
> > asked the vet to look at him too, & she did. He was injected with
> > amoxi & given oral Marobycil @10mg daily . I was also supplied with
> > spare courses of antibiotics to treat any further cats that contracted
> > the flu too.
> > Lilly suffered the worst case, then Biffy was a very close second,
> > Tazy got the next dose but didn't seem over distressed by it, then
> > Belle(mummy) got it too. She didn;'t seem to be suffering too much
> > with it, but I was advised to give her the [email protected] 10mg daily to
> > help out if the kittens contracted it.
> > Both Lucy(fur!) & Ringo don't seem affected at all, Tiggy didn't
> > suffer from it at all either.
> > As soon as Lilly did get home, I isolated her from all of the other
> > cats, then started isolating the other cats from each other too. It
> > would seem that it was like shutting the gate after the horse has
> > bolted though. The incubation period was well over, & I think that
> > both mother & kittens were exposed to the flue well before Lilly even
> > went into the clinic.
> > Despite isolating them all, & trying to observe clinical cleanliness,
> > it made no difference at all.
> > As soon as they started displaying symptoms, & we tried to treat
> > them, it was looking trying to hold back an enormous tidal wave...It
> > was impossible..all of the kittens were showing upper respiritory
> > congestion, one after another, hour by hour...I tried to kid myself
> > that we might be able to save a few of them, but in reality, it was a
> > lost cause.
> > At two weeks old, we were just getting to know who was who & love them
> > for whom they were too. To watch them race downhill so fast was like
> > watching the light in their little souls wink out..terrible to observe
> > & a crying shame to all who were touched by their lives. They were
> > wonderful babes & loved beyond measure.
> > Their Poor mother is devastated as we are, but there is nothing I can
> > do to lessen her grief:o(
> > We are obviously devastated too, & I can tell you the sorrow that we
> > feel right now..guilt included for not realising sooner too...
> > The only consolation to this sad story is that we have still got all
> > of our adult cats, but it doesn't damped the heat of that loss...only
> > time will help that one.....
> > My only other consolation is that now that they have crossed the
> > Rainbow Bridge, that they suffer no longer & will be with Jasper, who
> > crossed it last November. He will guide them all to the place where
> > there is plenty & purrs of peace that envelope them all.
> > Good Bye Cornelius Fudge, White eye, Nose Blaze, Mittzi the mitted
> > too, we loved you all & wish you purrs of affection in your new home.
> > Sheelagh
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------**----------------------
> > Haemorrhagic fever and high mortality associated with feline
> > calicivirus (FCV) infection
>
> > Feline calicivirus (FCV) is one of the cat flu viruses which most
> > commonly causes signs of upper respiratory tract
>
> > disease such as sneezing, nasal discharge, mouth ulceration and
> > conjunctivitis. Several outbreaks of severe disease associated with
> > FCV have recently been reported in the USA. In these outbreaks,
> > swelling of the head and paws was noted as well as other signs
> > including flu signs, jaundice and bleeding from the nose and the
> > bowel. Up to half of the affected cats died as a result of this
> > infection which was caused by a particularly severe strain of FCV.
> > Both adult cats and kittens were affected by this infection and many
> > of the cats were vaccinated for FCV suggesting that the vaccines for
> > this disease are not completely protective for this strain. So far, no
> > confirmed reports of similar outbreaks have been seen outside the USA
> > although one unconfirmed report suggested that this strain may also
> > exist in the UK.
>
> > The Veterinary Record, August 2002
> > did indeed have a rampant case of mutant- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Stories like these are so honest, & they touch my heart, because they
make me realise that we are all human after all is said & done!!
Thank you Cindy..guilt is such an unproductive feeling, sin't it?
S;o)

sheelagh
February 20th 07, 04:55 PM
On 20 Feb, 02:53, Rhonda > wrote:
> Oh shoot, how horrible. You've had just too much to bear recently.
>
> I'm sorry about the kittens. My condolences to Belle, too.
>
> Sounds like you are lucky that everyone else made it.
>
> Rhonda
>
>
>
> sheelagh wrote:
> > We were so excited @ the birth of what we thought was our final litter
> > as breeders, & I was delighted when Blue~Belle had four wonderful
> > little white mice. She had an easy birth & all was well(2nd Feb 07).
> > Shortly after then, Lilly became very ill, & had to be taken to the
> > clinic on the spot, where she was diagnosed with Pyometra..which was a
> > tale in itself. As I posted at the time, I thought that it was
> > possible that Lilly has cat flu, but when I asked my [email protected] that time,
> > she assured me that it couldn't be, because all of our cats were
> > vaccinated against Flu....
> > It was not until we got Lilly out of the first surgery & in to the
> > second surgery, that I got someone willing to me..The new vet took a
> > full panel of bloods & did a few other tests & confirmed that we did
> > indeed have a rampant case of mutant flu.5 other cases had been
> > diagnosed recently in our local are, & out of those 5, only 2cats had
> > made it through to the other side, &Are still with us to tell the
> > tale.
>
> > This would explain some of the drooling that Lilly was suffering & the
> > bacterial infection that she contracted after catching flu.
> > Lilly had a strain of calicivirus which lead to Pneumonia in her
> > instance.
> > Once we got her home, I isolated her because I knew in my gut that we
> > were fighting more than Pyometra here, because Biffy, her ex mate also
> > started sniffling whilst she was @ the clinic, then the green/yellow
> > eye secretions started, high temperature and bubbling nose too. I
> > asked the vet to look at him too, & she did. He was injected with
> > amoxi & given oral Marobycil @10mg daily . I was also supplied with
> > spare courses of antibiotics to treat any further cats that contracted
> > the flu too.
> > Lilly suffered the worst case, then Biffy was a very close second,
> > Tazy got the next dose but didn't seem over distressed by it, then
> > Belle(mummy) got it too. She didn;'t seem to be suffering too much
> > with it, but I was advised to give her the [email protected] 10mg daily to
> > help out if the kittens contracted it.
> > Both Lucy(fur!) & Ringo don't seem affected at all, Tiggy didn't
> > suffer from it at all either.
> > As soon as Lilly did get home, I isolated her from all of the other
> > cats, then started isolating the other cats from each other too. It
> > would seem that it was like shutting the gate after the horse has
> > bolted though. The incubation period was well over, & I think that
> > both mother & kittens were exposed to the flue well before Lilly even
> > went into the clinic.
> > Despite isolating them all, & trying to observe clinical cleanliness,
> > it made no difference at all.
> > As soon as they started displaying symptoms, & we tried to treat
> > them, it was looking trying to hold back an enormous tidal wave...It
> > was impossible..all of the kittens were showing upper respiritory
> > congestion, one after another, hour by hour...I tried to kid myself
> > that we might be able to save a few of them, but in reality, it was a
> > lost cause.
> > At two weeks old, we were just getting to know who was who & love them
> > for whom they were too. To watch them race downhill so fast was like
> > watching the light in their little souls wink out..terrible to observe
> > & a crying shame to all who were touched by their lives. They were
> > wonderful babes & loved beyond measure.
> > Their Poor mother is devastated as we are, but there is nothing I can
> > do to lessen her grief:o(
> > We are obviously devastated too, & I can tell you the sorrow that we
> > feel right now..guilt included for not realising sooner too...
> > The only consolation to this sad story is that we have still got all
> > of our adult cats, but it doesn't damped the heat of that loss...only
> > time will help that one.....
> > My only other consolation is that now that they have crossed the
> > Rainbow Bridge, that they suffer no longer & will be with Jasper, who
> > crossed it last November. He will guide them all to the place where
> > there is plenty & purrs of peace that envelope them all.
> > Good Bye Cornelius Fudge, White eye, Nose Blaze, Mittzi the mitted
> > too, we loved you all & wish you purrs of affection in your new home.
> > Sheelagh
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*----------------------
> > Haemorrhagic fever and high mortality associated with feline
> > calicivirus (FCV) infection
>
> > Feline calicivirus (FCV) is one of the cat flu viruses which most
> > commonly causes signs of upper respiratory tract
>
> > disease such as sneezing, nasal discharge, mouth ulceration and
> > conjunctivitis. Several outbreaks of severe disease associated with
> > FCV have recently been reported in the USA. In these outbreaks,
> > swelling of the head and paws was noted as well as other signs
> > including flu signs, jaundice and bleeding from the nose and the
> > bowel. Up to half of the affected cats died as a result of this
> > infection which was caused by a particularly severe strain of FCV.
> > Both adult cats and kittens were affected by this infection and many
> > of the cats were vaccinated for FCV suggesting that the vaccines for
> > this disease are not completely protective for this strain. So far, no
> > confirmed reports of similar outbreaks have been seen outside the USA
> > although one unconfirmed report suggested that this strain may also
> > exist in the UK.
>
> > The Veterinary Record, August 2002
> > did indeed have a rampant case of mutant- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

This is very true, I am more than grateful that all of the adults were
spared. When you feel down, there is always something good to come out
of a terrible situation, & you hit it right on the head...there have
been times when I thought that we were going to loose Lilly too. But
we didn't, for that I couldn't be more grateful. she has been with us
since 12 weeks old, & she became my baby!! ( A little bit like Lynne
and Levis with the lip sucking comforter)- Lilly normally sits around
my shoulders. No matter that she is far too big & fat to do it
anymore, never mind the fact that she weighs a ton either, when she
wants shoulders, there is nothing to be done but to accept it..but she
loves it so much that it is worth the neck ache,lol!!
Biffy is fine again & still peeing up anything that doesn't walk off(&
some things that do too actually! I had hoped that neutering him might
slow that habit down, but it is not the case unfortunately)...
Tazy is far different. you can bring him indoors and you would never
know that he used to be a stud cat...he just wants loooove & tummy
tickles all day every day pleaseeeeeee,lol!
Tiggy has always been a gentle little soul, & Lucy(fur!), very aptly
named because she really is a ring leading little devil...& Ringo who
has time for anyone who wishes to preen him & give him snuggles...But
they are all sulking about being outside in the pens..
I can't say that I blame them when they know that there is an indoors
to be enjoyed with soft beds & slaves to attend them, of course!
]S;o)

mlbriggs
February 20th 07, 10:39 PM
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:58:53 -0800, sheelagh wrote:

> We were so excited @ the birth of what we thought was our final litter
> as breeders, & I was delighted when Blue~Belle had four wonderful
> little white mice. She had an easy birth & all was well(2nd Feb 07).
> Shortly after then, Lilly became very ill, & had to be taken to the
> clinic on the spot, where she was diagnosed with Pyometra..which was a
> tale in itself. As I posted at the time, I thought that it was
> possible that Lilly has cat flu, but when I asked my [email protected] that time,
> she assured me that it couldn't be, because all of our cats were
> vaccinated against Flu....
> It was not until we got Lilly out of the first surgery & in to the
> second surgery, that I got someone willing to me..The new vet took a
> full panel of bloods & did a few other tests & confirmed that we did
> indeed have a rampant case of mutant flu.5 other cases had been
> diagnosed recently in our local are, & out of those 5, only 2cats had
> made it through to the other side, &Are still with us to tell the
> tale.
>
> This would explain some of the drooling that Lilly was suffering & the
> bacterial infection that she contracted after catching flu.
> Lilly had a strain of calicivirus which lead to Pneumonia in her
> instance.
> Once we got her home, I isolated her because I knew in my gut that we
> were fighting more than Pyometra here, because Biffy, her ex mate also
> started sniffling whilst she was @ the clinic, then the green/yellow
> eye secretions started, high temperature and bubbling nose too. I
> asked the vet to look at him too, & she did. He was injected with
> amoxi & given oral Marobycil @10mg daily . I was also supplied with
> spare courses of antibiotics to treat any further cats that contracted
> the flu too.
> Lilly suffered the worst case, then Biffy was a very close second,
> Tazy got the next dose but didn't seem over distressed by it, then
> Belle(mummy) got it too. She didn;'t seem to be suffering too much
> with it, but I was advised to give her the [email protected] 10mg daily to
> help out if the kittens contracted it.
> Both Lucy(fur!) & Ringo don't seem affected at all, Tiggy didn't
> suffer from it at all either.
> As soon as Lilly did get home, I isolated her from all of the other
> cats, then started isolating the other cats from each other too. It
> would seem that it was like shutting the gate after the horse has
> bolted though. The incubation period was well over, & I think that
> both mother & kittens were exposed to the flue well before Lilly even
> went into the clinic.
> Despite isolating them all, & trying to observe clinical cleanliness,
> it made no difference at all.
> As soon as they started displaying symptoms, & we tried to treat
> them, it was looking trying to hold back an enormous tidal wave...It
> was impossible..all of the kittens were showing upper respiritory
> congestion, one after another, hour by hour...I tried to kid myself
> that we might be able to save a few of them, but in reality, it was a
> lost cause.
> At two weeks old, we were just getting to know who was who & love them
> for whom they were too. To watch them race downhill so fast was like
> watching the light in their little souls wink out..terrible to observe
> & a crying shame to all who were touched by their lives. They were
> wonderful babes & loved beyond measure.
> Their Poor mother is devastated as we are, but there is nothing I can
> do to lessen her grief:o(
> We are obviously devastated too, & I can tell you the sorrow that we
> feel right now..guilt included for not realising sooner too...
> The only consolation to this sad story is that we have still got all
> of our adult cats, but it doesn't damped the heat of that loss...only
> time will help that one.....
> My only other consolation is that now that they have crossed the
> Rainbow Bridge, that they suffer no longer & will be with Jasper, who
> crossed it last November. He will guide them all to the place where
> there is plenty & purrs of peace that envelope them all.
> Good Bye Cornelius Fudge, White eye, Nose Blaze, Mittzi the mitted
> too, we loved you all & wish you purrs of affection in your new home.
> Sheelagh
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Haemorrhagic fever and high mortality associated with feline
> calicivirus (FCV) infection
>
> Feline calicivirus (FCV) is one of the cat flu viruses which most
> commonly causes signs of upper respiratory tract
>
> disease such as sneezing, nasal discharge, mouth ulceration and
> conjunctivitis. Several outbreaks of severe disease associated with
> FCV have recently been reported in the USA. In these outbreaks,
> swelling of the head and paws was noted as well as other signs
> including flu signs, jaundice and bleeding from the nose and the
> bowel. Up to half of the affected cats died as a result of this
> infection which was caused by a particularly severe strain of FCV.
> Both adult cats and kittens were affected by this infection and many
> of the cats were vaccinated for FCV suggesting that the vaccines for
> this disease are not completely protective for this strain. So far, no
> confirmed reports of similar outbreaks have been seen outside the USA
> although one unconfirmed report suggested that this strain may also
> exist in the UK.
>
> The Veterinary Record, August 2002
> did indeed have a rampant case of mutant


"...Rise up little Angels. It's hard to let you go..." MLB

Lynne
February 20th 07, 10:49 PM
on Tue, 20 Feb 2007 16:09:55 GMT, "sheelagh"
> wrote:

> Or, do I allow my final queen to have her small litter? It does seem
> rather appropr

Sheelagh, my opinion on this probably won't be very popular on this
newsgroup, but were I in your shoes, I would let Tiggy have this litter.
You have endured an awful lot of heartbreak and I think a litter of kittens
would be very healing for you. You deserve one final litter in my opinion.
I'm sure your vet bills could use the relief of the proceeds from selling
them, too.

There will of course always be the risk of losing them, so I think you
should asses that risk. If it is minimal, let her have them and enjoy them
fully.

--
Lynne

cindys
February 20th 07, 11:18 PM
On Feb 20, 5:49 pm, Lynne > wrote:
> on Tue, 20 Feb 2007 16:09:55 GMT, "sheelagh"
>
> > wrote:
> > Or, do I allow my final queen to have her small litter? It does seem
> > rather appropr
>
> Sheelagh, my opinion on this probably won't be very popular on this
> newsgroup, but were I in your shoes, I would let Tiggy have this litter.
> You have endured an awful lot of heartbreak and I think a litter of kittens
> would be very healing for you. You deserve one final litter in my opinion.
> I'm sure your vet bills could use the relief of the proceeds from selling
> them, too.
>
> There will of course always be the risk of losing them, so I think you
> should asses that risk. If it is minimal, let her have them and enjoy them
> fully.
------------
I agree with you Lynne. (I'm sure my opinion won't be very popular on
this group either). I think Tiggy should have her litter and for the
same reasons you have cited. I guess I generally don't believe that
professional breeders are responsible for the overabundance of
unwanted cats.

Most people who have their hearts set on a purebreed and are willing
to pay hundreds of dollars for it are generally not the ones who are
going to look to the local humane society if a breeder goes out of
business. Someone who wants a purebreed will simply find another
breeder. The real problem IMHO is with irresponsible people who fail
to spay/neuter domestic cats and allow them to breed at random.These
are the cats who are filling up the shelters and being euthanized.
Just for example, when Molly, my Abyssinian died (before anyone gets
all bent out of shape, she was a stray, as I've noted previously in
this forum), as a point of curiosity, I checked the internet to see
how many Abyssinian breeders there were. The current average price of
an Abyssinian kitten is around $600 in the USA. The closest breeder to
my location is a several hours' drive, but the next closest one is
around 300 miles away. The approximate wait for a kitten is a full
year. Most breeders, nationwide, have zero Abyssinian kittens
currently available. The number of Abyssinian kittens available in
any given year, nationwide, is quite small. I don't think anyone could
reasonably argue that these handful of breeders are somehow
responsible for the overpopulation of cats in the USA.

The problem is with irresponsible people who do not spay and neuter
domestic cats and then these cats end up in shelters or as "free
kittens." I would be willing to bet that the one rescue organization
for which I volunteer sees more pregnant domestics in a single year
than all the breeders of Abyssinian cats across the USA put together.
Maybe I'm exaggerating a tad, but I'm trying to make a point.
Additionally, I promise you that if I had made up my mind to adopt
another Abyssinian, I would have spent the money and sat on the
waiting list for the year. I would not have proceeded down to the
local shelter and picked out a domestic instead. People who want a
certain breed, want a certain breed.

At any rate, I think Tiggy should have her litter, and I don't think
Sheelagh should feel guilty at all.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

bookie
February 20th 07, 11:29 PM
On 20 Feb, 23:18, "cindys" > wrote:
> On Feb 20, 5:49 pm, Lynne > wrote:
>
>
>
> > on Tue, 20 Feb 2007 16:09:55 GMT, "sheelagh"
>
> > > wrote:
> > > Or, do I allow my final queen to have her small litter? It does seem
> > > rather appropr
>
> > Sheelagh, my opinion on this probably won't be very popular on this
> > newsgroup, but were I in your shoes, I would let Tiggy have this litter.
> > You have endured an awful lot of heartbreak and I think a litter of kittens
> > would be very healing for you. You deserve one final litter in my opinion.
> > I'm sure your vet bills could use the relief of the proceeds from selling
> > them, too.
>
> > There will of course always be the risk of losing them, so I think you
> > should asses that risk. If it is minimal, let her have them and enjoy them
> > fully.
>
> ------------
> I agree with you Lynne. (I'm sure my opinion won't be very popular on
> this group either). I think Tiggy should have her litter and for the
> same reasons you have cited. I guess I generally don't believe that
> professional breeders are responsible for the overabundance of
> unwanted cats.
>
> Most people who have their hearts set on a purebreed and are willing
> to pay hundreds of dollars for it are generally not the ones who are
> going to look to the local humane society if a breeder goes out of
> business. Someone who wants a purebreed will simply find another
> breeder. The real problem IMHO is with irresponsible people who fail
> to spay/neuter domestic cats and allow them to breed at random.These
> are the cats who are filling up the shelters and being euthanized.
> Just for example, when Molly, my Abyssinian died (before anyone gets
> all bent out of shape, she was a stray, as I've noted previously in
> this forum), as a point of curiosity, I checked the internet to see
> how many Abyssinian breeders there were. The current average price of
> an Abyssinian kitten is around $600 in the USA. The closest breeder to
> my location is a several hours' drive, but the next closest one is
> around 300 miles away. The approximate wait for a kitten is a full
> year. Most breeders, nationwide, have zero Abyssinian kittens
> currently available. The number of Abyssinian kittens available in
> any given year, nationwide, is quite small. I don't think anyone could
> reasonably argue that these handful of breeders are somehow
> responsible for the overpopulation of cats in the USA.
>
> The problem is with irresponsible people who do not spay and neuter
> domestic cats and then these cats end up in shelters or as "free
> kittens." I would be willing to bet that the one rescue organization
> for which I volunteer sees more pregnant domestics in a single year
> than all the breeders of Abyssinian cats across the USA put together.
> Maybe I'm exaggerating a tad, but I'm trying to make a point.
> Additionally, I promise you that if I had made up my mind to adopt
> another Abyssinian, I would have spent the money and sat on the
> waiting list for the year. I would not have proceeded down to the
> local shelter and picked out a domestic instead. People who want a
> certain breed, want a certain breed.
>
> At any rate, I think Tiggy should have her litter, and I don't think
> Sheelagh should feel guilty at all.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

yes , sheelagh, let the cat have the kittens, do not get them aborted,
give them a chance to live, see it is a a gift from god to make up
for all the awful things which have happened recently, then have her
'done'.
the kittens are here now as far as i am concerned and should be
allowed to live.

also you will be denying people lots of cute kitten pictures to go
gooey over after they are born if you abort them and that is just not
fair

as the others have said it is not as though you are an irresponsible
who will just let her cats breed constantly and not look after the
kittens and let them run wild without proper care, you are in a
different category altogether so dont; worry about it.

best of luck, bookie

paws2 via CatKB.com
February 21st 07, 02:00 AM
sheelagh wrote:

...text snipped...

>It was a terribly sad process to go through. Depressing, moral sapping
>really. It was terribly hard to watch each one die & it didn't matter
>how hard we tried to keep them alive, there was *nothing* we could do
>to stop it happening.
>Fading kittens.


sheelagh, I am very sorry, but sadly not surprised to hear about yet more
tragic events involving your cats. URIs in catteries/multi-cat households can
be very hard on adult cats, let alone queens and newborns.
>

>I hoped when it started that even if we could save a couple then it
>would have been worth all of the hard work, but when they all did, it
>was simply heartbreaking. I would still try as we hard as we did again
>if it were to happen all over again, because you have to try, don't
>you?

You have to do everything possible to not let this happen again, but by the
sounds of it, it may already be too late. This makes it all the more tragic.

...text snipped...

>
>Whilst putting all of the cats out into isolation, we had a bit of a
>surprise
>some while ago, I posted asking whether it would be appropriate to
>allow Tiggy to mate because I thought she was calling (baring in mind
>we have only had her since last October, & she has never called before
>then..)..& everyone told me not to bother...So I took her away from
>all of the males & penned her. I thought I had caught her right at the
>start of her call, but it looks like she was already got at before I
>separated her.
>I don't think that she would have many kittens, but it is not the
>point...
>I have been corresponding with someone who has been advising me on how
>to help myself through this terrible run of events, since Lilly was
>taken in to clinic,& they have advised me to have the litter aborted.
>I contacted my vet this morning who has advised me to take her down
>for consultation, before agreeing to.
>If I am perfectly honest with myself & all of you too, I am in two
>minds as to what to do about this latest fiasco.
>Part of me wants to take her down & insist on the kittens being
>aborted,& Tiggy spayed, so that I don't have to go through this
>situation ever again...
> But the other half of me is telling me, take advice from the vet who
>is dealing with her, & if he thinks that it is likely to have a decent
>outcome, allow her to have them, & have her spayed straight afterwards
>as soon as we can.

The only consideration in this instance should be the cats and their health
and best interests, not what you would like or what would make you feel good
or less guilty. You are considering letting a pregnant cat in a highly
infectious household (incubation time and time prior to cleaning and
disinfection must be factored in) with cats that are now possible carriers
carry kittens to term that may well be or become infected.

From your posts, it does not sound as though you have had Tiggy checked
either for stage of pregnancy, state of health, development of the kittens,
etc., so the decision may end up being made for you if it is too late in
good conscience to abort the pregnancy. If this is still an early-term
pregnancy, terminating would be in the best interests of Tiggy and kittens to
avoid potential tragedy (infected kittens). You also have to consider that
you still have ill cats on your hands and continuing cleanliness protocols to
follow. This is a large task even for very knowledgeable rescuers with a lot
of help.


>The situation is entirely of my own making, & I feel guilty for it
>happening at all(OTOH I have never seen her in season before so had no
>guidelines on what to expect of her &when either..;o(


Immersing yourself in guilt helps no one at this point. Learn from this and
do what is right for your cats, irrespective of what you would like. You may
not have much choice at this point (Tiggy must be thorougly checked by a vet),
but the health and well-being of all of your cats must be the primary
consideration.

I hope that further heartbreak and misery will be avoided.


>We have done a complete house clean today & a complete spray with
>Sporal D, in case of any fungal spores left, I have autoclaved all of
>the animal equipment, & boiled all of their laundry too, then sprayed
>it with sporal D for good measure. & when i say house cleaned, I mean
>clinical!!
>I am in two minds...can I go through this again?
>Would I go through this again?
>Or, do I allow my final queen to have her small litter? It does seem
>rather appropriate and timely to find out now that she is pregnant,
>now?
>Any thoughts?
>And thank you all for the purrs....they are so comforting
>I can only say that I am pleased that they suffered no longer than
>they had to, & that they are safe on the other side of the Bridge now
>S;o)

--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200702/1

cybercat
February 21st 07, 02:27 AM
"paws2 via CatKB.com" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> The only consideration in this instance should be the cats and their
> health and best interests, not what you would like or what would make you
> feel
> good or less guilty. You are considering letting a pregnant cat in a
> highly
> infectious household (incubation time and time prior to cleaning and
> disinfection must be factored in) with cats that are now possible carriers
> carry kittens to term that may well be or become infected.
>
> From your posts, it does not sound as though you have had Tiggy checked
> either for stage of pregnancy, state of health, development of the
> kittens, etc., so the decision may end up being made for you if it is too
> late in
> good conscience to abort the pregnancy. If this is still an early-term
> pregnancy, terminating would be in the best interests of Tiggy and kittens
> to avoid potential tragedy (infected kittens). You also have to consider
> that
> you still have ill cats on your hands and continuing cleanliness protocols
> to follow. This is a large task even for very knowledgeable rescuers with
> a
> lot of help.
>
>
> Immersing yourself in guilt helps no one at this point. Learn from this
> and do what is right for your cats, irrespective of what you would like.
> You
> may not have much choice at this point (Tiggy must be thorougly checked
> by a
> vet), but the health and well-being of all of your cats must be the
> primary
> consideration.
>
> I hope that further heartbreak and misery will be avoided.
>

I concur and I really hope Sheelagh will take your advice. If she doesn't, I
can see more heartbreak coming.

Cheryl
February 21st 07, 02:52 AM
On Mon 19 Feb 2007 03:58:53p, sheelagh wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
oups.com>:

> My only other consolation is that now that they have crossed the
> Rainbow Bridge, that they suffer no longer & will be with
> Jasper, who crossed it last November. He will guide them all to
> the place where there is plenty & purrs of peace that envelope
> them all. Good Bye Cornelius Fudge, White eye, Nose Blaze,
> Mittzi the mitted too, we loved you all & wish you purrs of
> affection in your new home.
>

I'm so sorry they were all lost. You did everything you could.
These viruses are so hard on the littlest ones.

I read your other post about another pregnant cat, and I will
probably have the unpopular reply after reading the others, but I
wouldn't try to let them come into the world. My reason is based on
the sickness that just passed through your (ex)cattery and some of
those viruses can last for a very very long time outside of the
living host. Unless you can be sure that you've killed all of it, I
wouldn't subject kittens to the environment. :(


--
Cheryl

Cheryl
February 21st 07, 02:56 AM
On Tue 20 Feb 2007 09:00:13p, paws2 via CatKB.com wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav <news:[email protected]>:

> The only consideration in this instance should be the cats and
> their health and best interests, not what you would like or what
> would make you feel good or less guilty. You are considering
> letting a pregnant cat in a highly infectious household
> (incubation time and time prior to cleaning and disinfection
> must be factored in) with cats that are now possible carriers
> carry kittens to term that may well be or become infected.

Just read this, after I posted a likely unpopular reply. I so agree.
Sheelah, I'm sorry.

--
Cheryl

bookie
February 21st 07, 02:16 PM
On 21 Feb, 02:56, Cheryl > wrote:
> On Tue 20 Feb 2007 09:00:13p, paws2 via CatKB.com wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav <news:[email protected]>:
>
> > The only consideration in this instance should be the cats and
> > their health and best interests, not what you would like or what
> > would make you feel good or less guilty. You are considering
> > letting a pregnant cat in a highly infectious household
> > (incubation time and time prior to cleaning and disinfection
> > must be factored in) with cats that are now possible carriers
> > carry kittens to term that may well be or become infected.
>
> Just read this, after I posted a likely unpopular reply. I so agree.
> Sheelah, I'm sorry.
>
> --
> Cheryl

is there no way the pregnant cat can stay with someone else for a
while and be isolated from the others completely? maybe i am a bit
gormless but i thoght that that was what was going to be happening
anyway otherwise I would not have suggested she has the kittens
bookie

Mommy of 2 via CatKB.com
February 21st 07, 02:33 PM
sheelagh wrote:
>We were so excited @ the birth of what we thought was our final litter
>as breeders, & I was delighted when Blue~Belle had four wonderful
>little white mice. She had an easy birth & all was well(2nd Feb 07).
>Shortly after then, Lilly became very ill, & had to be taken to the
>clinic on the spot, where she was diagnosed with Pyometra..which was a
>tale in itself. As I posted at the time, I thought that it was
>possible that Lilly has cat flu, but when I asked my [email protected] that time,
>she assured me that it couldn't be, because all of our cats were
>vaccinated against Flu....
>It was not until we got Lilly out of the first surgery & in to the
>second surgery, that I got someone willing to me..The new vet took a
>full panel of bloods & did a few other tests & confirmed that we did
>indeed have a rampant case of mutant flu.5 other cases had been
>diagnosed recently in our local are, & out of those 5, only 2cats had
>made it through to the other side, &Are still with us to tell the
>tale.
>
>This would explain some of the drooling that Lilly was suffering & the
>bacterial infection that she contracted after catching flu.
>Lilly had a strain of calicivirus which lead to Pneumonia in her
>instance.
>Once we got her home, I isolated her because I knew in my gut that we
>were fighting more than Pyometra here, because Biffy, her ex mate also
>started sniffling whilst she was @ the clinic, then the green/yellow
>eye secretions started, high temperature and bubbling nose too. I
>asked the vet to look at him too, & she did. He was injected with
>amoxi & given oral Marobycil @10mg daily . I was also supplied with
>spare courses of antibiotics to treat any further cats that contracted
>the flu too.
>Lilly suffered the worst case, then Biffy was a very close second,
>Tazy got the next dose but didn't seem over distressed by it, then
>Belle(mummy) got it too. She didn;'t seem to be suffering too much
>with it, but I was advised to give her the [email protected] 10mg daily to
>help out if the kittens contracted it.
>Both Lucy(fur!) & Ringo don't seem affected at all, Tiggy didn't
>suffer from it at all either.
>As soon as Lilly did get home, I isolated her from all of the other
>cats, then started isolating the other cats from each other too. It
>would seem that it was like shutting the gate after the horse has
>bolted though. The incubation period was well over, & I think that
>both mother & kittens were exposed to the flue well before Lilly even
>went into the clinic.
>Despite isolating them all, & trying to observe clinical cleanliness,
>it made no difference at all.
> As soon as they started displaying symptoms, & we tried to treat
>them, it was looking trying to hold back an enormous tidal wave...It
>was impossible..all of the kittens were showing upper respiritory
>congestion, one after another, hour by hour...I tried to kid myself
>that we might be able to save a few of them, but in reality, it was a
>lost cause.
>At two weeks old, we were just getting to know who was who & love them
>for whom they were too. To watch them race downhill so fast was like
>watching the light in their little souls wink out..terrible to observe
>& a crying shame to all who were touched by their lives. They were
>wonderful babes & loved beyond measure.
>Their Poor mother is devastated as we are, but there is nothing I can
>do to lessen her grief:o(
>We are obviously devastated too, & I can tell you the sorrow that we
>feel right now..guilt included for not realising sooner too...
>The only consolation to this sad story is that we have still got all
>of our adult cats, but it doesn't damped the heat of that loss...only
>time will help that one.....
>My only other consolation is that now that they have crossed the
>Rainbow Bridge, that they suffer no longer & will be with Jasper, who
>crossed it last November. He will guide them all to the place where
>there is plenty & purrs of peace that envelope them all.
>Good Bye Cornelius Fudge, White eye, Nose Blaze, Mittzi the mitted
>too, we loved you all & wish you purrs of affection in your new home.
>Sheelagh
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Haemorrhagic fever and high mortality associated with feline
>calicivirus (FCV) infection
>
>Feline calicivirus (FCV) is one of the cat flu viruses which most
>commonly causes signs of upper respiratory tract
>
>disease such as sneezing, nasal discharge, mouth ulceration and
>conjunctivitis. Several outbreaks of severe disease associated with
>FCV have recently been reported in the USA. In these outbreaks,
>swelling of the head and paws was noted as well as other signs
>including flu signs, jaundice and bleeding from the nose and the
>bowel. Up to half of the affected cats died as a result of this
>infection which was caused by a particularly severe strain of FCV.
>Both adult cats and kittens were affected by this infection and many
>of the cats were vaccinated for FCV suggesting that the vaccines for
>this disease are not completely protective for this strain. So far, no
>confirmed reports of similar outbreaks have been seen outside the USA
>although one unconfirmed report suggested that this strain may also
>exist in the UK.
>
>The Veterinary Record, August 2002
> did indeed have a rampant case of mutant


My heart goes out to you.....

--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200702/1

sheelagh
February 22nd 07, 01:26 AM
someone who has been advising me on how
to help myself through this terrible run of events, since Lilly was
taken in to clinic,& they have advised me to have the litter aborted.
I contacted my vet this morning who has advised me to take her down
for consultation, before agreeing to.

> >I hoped when it started that even if we could save a couple then it
> >would have been worth all of the hard work, but when they all did, it
> >was simply heartbreaking. I would still try as we hard as we did again
> >if it were to happen all over again, because you have to try, don't
> >you?
>
> You have to do everything possible to not let this happen again, but by the
> sounds of it, it may already be too late. This makes it all the more tragic.
>
> ..text snipped...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Whilst putting all of the cats out into isolation, we had a bit of a
> >surprise
> >some while ago, I posted asking whether it would be appropriate to
> >allow Tiggy to mate because I thought she was calling (baring in mind
> >we have only had her since last October, & she has never called before
> >then..)..& everyone told me not to bother...So I took her away from
> >all of the males & penned her. I thought I had caught her right at the
> >start of her call, but it looks like she was already got at before I
> >separated her.
> >I don't think that she would have many kittens, but it is not the

> >Part of me wants to take her down & insist on the kittens being
> >aborted,& Tiggy spayed, so that I don't have to go through this
> >situation ever again...
> > But the other half of me is telling me, take advice from the vet who
> >is dealing with her, & if he thinks that it is likely to have a decent
> >outcome, allow her to have them, & have her spayed straight afterwards
> >as soon as we can.
>
> The only consideration in this instance should be the cats and their health
> and best interests, not what you would like or what would make you feel good
> or less guilty. You are considering letting a pregnant cat in a highly
> infectious household (incubation time and time prior to cleaning and
> disinfection must be factored in) with cats that are now possible carriers
> carry kittens to term that may well be or become infected.
>
> From your posts, it does not sound as though you have had Tiggy checked
> either for stage of pregnancy, state of health, development of the kittens,
> etc., so the decision may end up being made for you if it is too late in
> good conscience to abort the pregnancy. If this is still an early-term
> pregnancy, terminating would be in the best interests of Tiggy and kittens to
> avoid potential tragedy (infected kittens). You also have to consider that
> you still have ill cats on your hands and continuing cleanliness protocols to
> follow. This is a large task even for very knowledgeable rescuers with a lot
> of help.
>
> >The situation is entirely of my own making, & I feel guilty for it
> >happening at all(OTOH I have never seen her in season before so had no
> >guidelines on what to expect of her &when either..;o(
>
> Immersing yourself in guilt helps no one at this point. Learn from this and
> do what is right for your cats, irrespective of what you would like. You may
> not have much choice at this point (Tiggy must be thoroughly checked by a vet),
> but the health and well-being of all of your cats must be the primary
> consideration.
>
> I hope that further heartbreak and misery will be avoided.
>
> >We have done a complete house clean today & a complete spray with
> >Sporal D, in case of any fungal spores left, I have autoclaved all of
> >the animal equipment, & boiled all of their laundry too, then sprayed
> >it with sporal D for good measure. & when i say house cleaned, I mean
> >clinical!!
> >I am in two minds...can I go through this again?
> >Would I go through this again?
> >Or, do I allow my final queen to have her small litter? It does seem
> >rather appropriate and timely to find out now that she is pregnant,
> >now?
> >Any thoughts?
> >And thank you all for the purrs....they are so comforting
> >I can only say that I am pleased that they suffered no longer than
> >they had to, & that they are safe on the other side of the Bridge now
> >S;o)
>
> --
> Message posted via CatKB.comhttp://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200702/1- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You beat me to it.....I'd laugh if it wasn't so tragic........

I took a break from the screen today up until 10mins ago. I am glad
that I did, there are several issues that I would like to tell you/
talk to you about if that's ok?

I haven't had time to go through what I posted, when, & exactly what
it said, but in this instance it is rather important. On reflection,
when I posted about these kittens, I gave completely the opposite
advice to that which I was offered.


>on how
> >to help myself through this terrible run of events, since Lilly was
> >taken in to clinic,& they have advised me to have the litter aborted.
> >I contacted my vet this morning who has advised me to take her down
> >for consultation, before agreeing to.
> >If I am perfectly honest with myself & all of you too, I am in two
> >minds as to what to do about this latest fiasco.


Then if you go back & read my posting, you will see that the poster
had given me conscience instructions, & @ no stage did they mention
the words *abort kittens*...

I *chose to see* the words, in my LACK OF OBJECTIVTY here....

In fact the advice was in the following words...reading them back to
myself makes me feel shameful & I am very sorry for misunderstanding
what the advice truely was...

You will see as you read on, that the advice was to go to the vets
asap, for the sake of the kittens, not what I would like to see in the
hope that a chance miracle might happen in between times!!!!!!

I can't believe that me of all people chose to be blinkered about
this.."Miss Objectivity of 70-07"...?

But the harsh reality is that I lost sight here, & I can't thank
everyone enough for being here to point out what needed to be
said......

>After reading part of your post, I am not certain you understood me
>completely and I want to clarify that when I wrote "have Tiggy
>examined and spayed" that is exactly what I meant. An examination by
>your vet would determine how far along she is, her and the kittens'
>health status, and at what stage the kittens are. I would never
>advise to abort viable kittens. My concern centres around the
>rampant infection in your environment, how Tiggy and kittens are
>affected, and your lack of objectivity in this because of the
>circumstances. The longer you delay having Tiggy seen, the less
>options you will have, and the more potential harm.
>
>Hope this makes what I meant clearer.

Yes... It has now.

It couldn't be clearer if you stamped it on my forehead.
I am more than Embarrassed,. Mortified, but most of all grateful...
I needed to hear this & I am so glad that someone has been kind enough
to point out the obvious, & to do it with all haste too.

All, of my objectivity went out the window whilst the self pity was
walking in the door & telling me how sorry it was that we have been
through hell. Well.... I realise that, but the point is, did I realise
what I was doing? Wallowing in all that self pity??
Of course not!

I was too busy thinking about have we cleared up the flu enough, will
someone have Tiggy for us. Someone with a house with no other animals.
I know that the Cpl have foster homes for pregnant mums and kittens,
because I do it for other people...

My mind was filled with , how Pregnant is she?,Can I do this.. All
questions were mostly to do with Can I, will I ,or am I up to it.
There was no debate about the wisdom of whether or not it would be
best Best for the kittens?
Best for Tiggy...?
Rampant Flu..!!?
Viable?
All of these things were right at the back of my mind, and as soon as
I read the passage I have posted for you to compare with, It makes me
realise just how deluded I had made myself.

Self Pity is never a pretty thing, but the truth is plain to see.

I find it amazing that I allowed myself to become so blind to the fact
that I was not putting either the kittens or Tiggy ahead of everything
else.

I pride myself on my objectivity, so you will understand that I am
shocked, yet grateful that someone had the gumption to point out my
blind spot.
I won't have the answer to any of the questions until I do get her
down to the vet clinic...FAST TOO..!
I can only hope that you are right & that I have a choice to make,
rather than a rod to bare.

I might be facing the same thing all over, but OTOH, I might be able
to avert a disaster instead.

Frankly, I don't think I could go through loosing another litter.
In answer to Bookies Q:Yes, I think I do know someone who would be
willing to take on Tiggy & the kitties IF It is deemed appropriate or
necessary by the vet.

It could be wonderful news, or it might be dreadful.
As soon as I have any news to tell you, I will post.

thanks to all for ideas, but most of all for challenging my view &
questioning my objectivity, because I can assure you that I wasn't
seeing it from the right point of view at all, & miss reading the
situation, preferring not to see the reality of the situation.
I LOST SIGHT BECAUSE I AM EMOTIONALLY INVOLVED......:o(

Well, we will know what ever they can tell us tomorrow by evening
here. I was going to take her today, but the car wouldn't start. Paul
has fixed it though. It was something to do with the starter motor
(huge hammer helps it work ,lol, truely!!)....

I can see hat needs to be done, for whom, & why. Mother & kittens come
first, I take advice and do what is best for Tiggy & her babes.
She has had no antenatal care, & I calculate that she is around 5weeks
pregnant.

Sheelagh x (Kudle yur kat;o)

Thanks everyone...

cybercat
February 22nd 07, 01:57 AM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> someone who has been advising me on how
> to help myself through this terrible run of events, since Lilly was
> taken in to clinic,& they have advised me to have the litter aborted.
> I contacted my vet this morning who has advised me to take her down
> for consultation, before agreeing to.
>

Good move, Sheelagh. And, don't be hard on yourself. You are,
at the very least, interested in doing the right thing--a far cry better
than many people, who are only interested in justifying whatever
selfish thing they want to do. Sound familiar? We have a mutual
friend like this. Take care. I hope Tigger is okay.

Lynne
February 22nd 07, 02:16 AM
on Thu, 22 Feb 2007 01:57:15 GMT, "cybercat" > wrote:

> Good move, Sheelagh. And, don't be hard on yourself. You are,
> at the very least, interested in doing the right thing

Sheelagh, after reading replies that came after mine, I changed my mind on
what I thought you should do but opted to stay out of it. I had no idea
the flu would still be so risky to those kittens. I am glad you are going
to make the right decision, as hard as it is.

--
Lynne

sheelagh
February 22nd 07, 02:30 AM
On 22 Feb, 01:57, "cybercat" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ps.com...
>
> > someone who has been advising me on how
> > to help myself through this terrible run of events, since Lilly was
> > taken in to clinic,& they have advised me to have the litter aborted.
> > I contacted my vet this morning who has advised me to take her down
> > for consultation, before agreeing to.
>
> Good move, Sheelagh. And, don't be hard on yourself. You are,
> at the very least, interested in doing the right thing--a far cry better
> than many people, who are only interested in justifying whatever
> selfish thing they want to do. Sound familiar? We have a mutual
> friend like this. Take care. I hope Tigger is okay.

I have to do what is Best for Tiggy, not my selfish self.
I feel amazed that I, of all people didn't see it objectively.
I suppose the point is, that I have now.
It's good to know that people care enough to make you see light when
they have to, too :o)

I will make sure that we do what is best for Tiggy, as you rightly
pointed out Lynne, I don't think that I took on board just how serious
it was either ...
In fact I am quite shocked If I'm entirely honest...
Thanks for the support though. I look forward to letting you know what
that might be when I cam as soon as I can too..
S;o)

cybercat
February 22nd 07, 02:46 AM
"sheelagh" > wrote
>
> I have to do what is Best for Tiggy, not my selfish self.
> I feel amazed that I, of all people didn't see it objectively.
> I suppose the point is, that I have now.

There's a learning curve with everything. Don't feel bad.

> It's good to know that people care enough to make you see light when
> they have to, too :o)

Again, you have the character to face your mistakes, or misthoughts,
however you want to put it. EVERYONE engages in bad thinking
or selfish thinking, or simple wrongheadedness. Those of us who
care more about doing the right thing than stroking our egos will
at least learn. You should feel good about yourself.





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Lynne
February 22nd 07, 03:16 AM
on Thu, 22 Feb 2007 02:30:09 GMT, "sheelagh"
> wrote:

> I feel amazed that I, of all people didn't see it objectively.
> I suppose the point is, that I have now.

Sheelagh, given the enormous stress and grief you have been experiencing,
you shouldn't be so amazed that your objectivity was shaken. Give yourself
a break, woman! I think you are doing just fine.

--
Lynne

sheelagh
February 22nd 07, 03:27 AM
On 22 Feb, 03:16, Lynne > wrote:
> on Thu, 22 Feb 2007 02:30:09 GMT, "sheelagh"
>
> > wrote:
> > I feel amazed that I, of all people didn't see it objectively.
> > I suppose the point is, that I have now.
>
> Sheelagh, given the enormous stress and grief you have been experiencing,
> you shouldn't be so amazed that your objectivity was shaken. Give yourself
> a break, woman! I think you are doing just fine.
>
> --
> Lynne

Thanx lol;o)
It's a bit embarrassing really...
Oh well, better my pride than their lives, hey..?
I will feel a lot better when I have got an idea of what I am facing,
I think?!!
S;o)

cindys
February 22nd 07, 01:10 PM
On Feb 21, 9:16 pm, Lynne > wrote:
> on Thu, 22 Feb 2007 01:57:15 GMT, "cybercat" > wrote:
>
> > Good move, Sheelagh. And, don't be hard on yourself. You are,
> > at the very least, interested in doing the right thing
>
> Sheelagh, after reading replies that came after mine, I changed my mind on
> what I thought you should do but opted to stay out of it. I had no idea
> the flu would still be so risky to those kittens.
----------
I also agree with the others. When I responded, I wasn't thinking that
the flu was still lurking. I was seeing this as a simple question of
whether or not to bring more kittens into the world (as is obvious
from my original response). If it's a question of the health of the
cats and there is a likelihood that the same fate may befall Tiggy's
litter as befell Belle's litter, then maybe it's not a good idea. I
know you will keep us updated and make the right decision whatever
that may be.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.