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lyngiven
March 23rd 07, 10:48 AM
I would appreciate advice on what would be the best diet for my 13
year old cat. She has been fed on Hill's Science Plan for several
years but I don't think this is enough anymore. Dispite having had
her teeth 'cleaned' recently by the vet I think she not able to chew
the biscuits easily. Is it OK to supplement with very small helpings
of softer food?

LG

cindys
March 23rd 07, 12:12 PM
"lyngiven" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I would appreciate advice on what would be the best diet for my 13
> year old cat. She has been fed on Hill's Science Plan for several
> years but I don't think this is enough anymore. Dispite having had
> her teeth 'cleaned' recently by the vet I think she not able to chew
> the biscuits easily. Is it OK to supplement with very small helpings
> of softer food?
--------
I think everyone on this group will agree that a premium brand of canned
food is a much better diet for any cat of any age than dry food. I always
fed my cats dry food only. In the last year or so, I have been feeding them
canned every day (although I still leave out bowls of dry food for
self-feeding throughout the day). What a difference!Their fur is nicer,
their poops aren't so little and dry, they vomit less, and they just seem
healthier overall. Canned food is good for their kidneys too. One of my
senior cats (16 years old) has just been diagnosed with chronic renal
failure. I read an article which speculated that an all-dry food diet can
contribute to the development of this disease. I don't know if that's true
or not, but I wish I had fed all of my cats canned food from the beginning.
Also, I have seen other people on this newsgroup refer to Hills Science Diet
as "garbage." I don't know if it is or isn't, but I do know there are better
quality dry foods on the market as well.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Lis
March 23rd 07, 01:55 PM
On Mar 23, 8:12 am, "cindys" > wrote:
> "lyngiven" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...>I would appreciate advice on what would be the best diet for my 13
> > year old cat. She has been fed on Hill's Science Plan for several
> > years but I don't think this is enough anymore. Dispite having had
> > her teeth 'cleaned' recently by the vet I think she not able to chew
> > the biscuits easily. Is it OK to supplement with very small helpings
> > of softer food?
>
> --------
> I think everyone on this group will agree that a premium brand of canned
> food is a much better diet for any cat of any age than dry food. I always
> fed my cats dry food only. In the last year or so, I have been feeding them
> canned every day (although I still leave out bowls of dry food for
> self-feeding throughout the day). What a difference!Their fur is nicer,
> their poops aren't so little and dry, they vomit less, and they just seem
> healthier overall. Canned food is good for their kidneys too. One of my
> senior cats (16 years old) has just been diagnosed with chronic renal
> failure. I read an article which speculated that an all-dry food diet can
> contribute to the development of this disease. I don't know if that's true
> or not, but I wish I had fed all of my cats canned food from the beginning.
> Also, I have seen other people on this newsgroup refer to Hills Science Diet
> as "garbage." I don't know if it is or isn't, but I do know there are better
> quality dry foods on the market as well.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.

Small, firm poops are a sign that there's little waste in your cat's
food; larger, softer poops are a result of lower-quality food with
more filler that simply passes through your cat. Canned food is to a
great degree formulated to appeal to the cats' humans who do the
shopping, contains more filler, is higher-calorie, and is not as good
for their teeth as chewing kibble. BUT, that doesn't mean that there
are never reasons to switch to a canned diet, and in the OP's case,
where the cat is having difficulty chewing kibble, and may need more
calories, it's certainly something I'd try--at least supplementing
with canned food, if not completely switching. Right now, though, I'd
probably be paranoid and go with Blue Buffalo Spa Select, or some
other really high-end food from a smaller company, rather than
anything from any of the big guys.

Most cats that live long enough eventually experience some degree of
renal failure. That your cat, at SIXTEEN, has done so, is not a sign
that you've not been feeding her a good diet--on the contrary, she's
obviously been well cared for to reach this age. And Science Diet is
hardly "garbage", but yes, there are better premium foods out there,
especially if you can afford to pay a bit more.

Lis

cindys
March 23rd 07, 03:05 PM
"Lis" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Mar 23, 8:12 am, "cindys" > wrote:
>> "lyngiven" > wrote in message
>>
>> oups.com...>I would
>> appreciate advice on what would be the best diet for my 13
>> > year old cat. She has been fed on Hill's Science Plan for several
>> > years but I don't think this is enough anymore. Dispite having had
>> > her teeth 'cleaned' recently by the vet I think she not able to chew
>> > the biscuits easily. Is it OK to supplement with very small helpings
>> > of softer food?
>>
>> --------
>> I think everyone on this group will agree that a premium brand of canned
>> food is a much better diet for any cat of any age than dry food. I always
>> fed my cats dry food only. In the last year or so, I have been feeding
>> them
>> canned every day (although I still leave out bowls of dry food for
>> self-feeding throughout the day). What a difference!Their fur is nicer,
>> their poops aren't so little and dry, they vomit less, and they just seem
>> healthier overall. Canned food is good for their kidneys too. One of my
>> senior cats (16 years old) has just been diagnosed with chronic renal
>> failure. I read an article which speculated that an all-dry food diet can
>> contribute to the development of this disease. I don't know if that's
>> true
>> or not, but I wish I had fed all of my cats canned food from the
>> beginning.
>> Also, I have seen other people on this newsgroup refer to Hills Science
>> Diet
>> as "garbage." I don't know if it is or isn't, but I do know there are
>> better
>> quality dry foods on the market as well.
>> Best regards,
>> ---Cindy S.
>
> Small, firm poops are a sign that there's little waste in your cat's
> food; larger, softer poops are a result of lower-quality food with
> more filler that simply passes through your cat. Canned food is to a
> great degree formulated to appeal to the cats' humans who do the
> shopping, contains more filler, is higher-calorie, and is not as good
> for their teeth as chewing kibble.

All of these years, I was a firm believer in a dry food only diet. My reason
was that I thought it would spare the cats' teeth. All I know is that
Bullwinkle still ended up with periodontal disease despite my keeping up
with his dentals and Amanda (at age 6) also has bad teeth. Alex, at age 16,
has never needed a dental until now. Even at that it's questionable, but
considering his age and CRF and cardiomyopathy, I'm not going to risk it. My
point is that, regarding a cat's teeth, I think there is a certain genetic
predisposition that comes into play, and it's not so simple as to say that
limiting their diet to dry food will automatically assure good teeth.

With respect to the canned food being higher calorie, that may be true, but
the calories in the dry food are mostly from carbohydrate. Alex (the same
16-year-old cat with the CRF and cardiomyopathy) was actually *cured* of
diabetes with the use of Lantus (glargine) insulin and a switch to a canned
food/Purina OM dry food diet. He is no longer on the insulin and his blood
glucoses (which I check about once a month) are consistently in the 80 to 90
range and have been for nearly a year. Alex (and Bullwinkle) have both lost
weight on the canned food/OM diet. This weight loss may be due in part to
aging or illness, but I was previously feeding them Iams Weight Control and
no canned food.

>BUT, that doesn't mean that there
> are never reasons to switch to a canned diet, and in the OP's case,
> where the cat is having difficulty chewing kibble, and may need more
> calories, it's certainly something I'd try--at least supplementing
> with canned food, if not completely switching. Right now, though, I'd
> probably be paranoid and go with Blue Buffalo Spa Select, or some
> other really high-end food from a smaller company, rather than
> anything from any of the big guys.
>
> Most cats that live long enough eventually experience some degree of
> renal failure. That your cat, at SIXTEEN, has done so, is not a sign
> that you've not been feeding her a good diet--on the contrary, she's
> obviously been well cared for to reach this age.

I wasn't saying that I had necessarily been feeding him a bad diet. I was
just saying that I had read a CRF website where someone was speculating
about the causes of renal disease, and one opinion was that an all-dry food
diet might be a contributor. All I know is that last year, after Alex was
diagnosed with diabetes, my veterinarian encouraged me to switch to a part
canned food diet because it contained a lot of water, which would increase
his fluid intake, stating cats generally don't drink an equivalent of that
amount. She said the additional moisture content would help with kidney
function. I know this is an opinion held by many people, not just my
veterinarian. Is it true? Don't know. But it's not as if my vet is employed
by a cat food company. I do acknowledge that there are differences of
opinion on this point, however.

>And Science Diet is
> hardly "garbage", but yes, there are better premium foods out there,
> especially if you can afford to pay a bit more.

As I said, I was reiterating an opinion expressed by other posters on this
group. I don't have an opinion about it one way or the other.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
>
> Lis
>

Patty
March 23rd 07, 04:20 PM
On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 11:05:41 -0400, cindys wrote:

> All of these years, I was a firm believer in a dry food only diet. My reason
> was that I thought it would spare the cats' teeth. All I know is that
> Bullwinkle still ended up with periodontal disease despite my keeping up
> with his dentals and Amanda (at age 6) also has bad teeth. Alex, at age 16,
> has never needed a dental until now. Even at that it's questionable, but
> considering his age and CRF and cardiomyopathy, I'm not going to risk it. My
> point is that, regarding a cat's teeth, I think there is a certain genetic
> predisposition that comes into play, and it's not so simple as to say that
> limiting their diet to dry food will automatically assure good teeth.

I can also comment on this. My one cat, Rusty, always preferred dry food.
Grady, on the other hand, mostly only ate canned food. Grady lived to be
nearly 16 and never once needed his teeth cleaned. Rusty has needed his
teeth cleaned regularly since he got older. And, he's lost a number of his
teeth due to age (some cats tend to do this, I've been told). Grady died
with a full mouth of teeth. So, it appears that the type of food made no
difference in the condition of their teeth as they aged. At least not in
our case.

Rusty is very early stage CRF, his BUN and creatinine numbers are just over
the normal line. He's been this way for a year or two now. He just turned
16 and recently had to have some dental work done, he'd broken a tooth and
the vet thought it was beginning to abscess so what was left of it needed
to be removed and the rest of his teeth needed to be cleaned. He came
through the surgery just fine and is doing very well.

I agree on the genetic disposition of cats' teeth. At least that appears
to be the case for my boys.

> With respect to the canned food being higher calorie, that may be true, but
> the calories in the dry food are mostly from carbohydrate. Alex (the same
> 16-year-old cat with the CRF and cardiomyopathy) was actually *cured* of
> diabetes with the use of Lantus (glargine) insulin and a switch to a canned
> food/Purina OM dry food diet. He is no longer on the insulin and his blood
> glucoses (which I check about once a month) are consistently in the 80 to 90
> range and have been for nearly a year. Alex (and Bullwinkle) have both lost
> weight on the canned food/OM diet. This weight loss may be due in part to
> aging or illness, but I was previously feeding them Iams Weight Control and
> no canned food.

When Grady got sick, he was eating ravenously (nearly two 6oz cans of food
per day) and still losing weight drastically. I asked the vet where all
the food was going, she told me that a large portion of canned food is
water, the rest ended up in the litter box since he was no longer digesting
his food properly.

Patty

Rene S.
March 23rd 07, 08:23 PM
> --------
> I think everyone on this group will agree that a premium brand of canned
> food is a much better diet for any cat of any age than dry food. I always
> fed my cats dry food only. In the last year or so, I have been feeding them
> canned every day (although I still leave out bowls of dry food for
> self-feeding throughout the day). What a difference!Their fur is nicer,
> their poops aren't so little and dry, they vomit less, and they just seem
> healthier overall. Canned food is good for their kidneys too. One of my
> senior cats (16 years old) has just been diagnosed with chronic renal
> failure. I read an article which speculated that an all-dry food diet can
> contribute to the development of this disease. I don't know if that's true
> or not, but I wish I had fed all of my cats canned food from the beginning.

Canned food is a great idea for your senior kitty. I too used dry but
have long switched to canned/raw and the difference is amazing. Better
fur and fewer hairballs. There are several good brands out there, but
if possible, it's best to use a brand that does not contain grains.
Cats actually have no dietary requirement for carbohydrates, and the
grains are only filler.

Lis
March 23rd 07, 09:30 PM
On Mar 23, 11:05 am, "cindys" > wrote:
> "Lis" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 23, 8:12 am, "cindys" > wrote:
> >> "lyngiven" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...>Iwould
> >> appreciate advice on what would be the best diet for my 13
> >> > year old cat. She has been fed on Hill's Science Plan for several
> >> > years but I don't think this is enough anymore. Dispite having had
> >> > her teeth 'cleaned' recently by the vet I think she not able to chew
> >> > the biscuits easily. Is it OK to supplement with very small helpings
> >> > of softer food?
>
> >> --------
> >> I think everyone on this group will agree that a premium brand of canned
> >> food is a much better diet for any cat of any age than dry food. I always
> >> fed my cats dry food only. In the last year or so, I have been feeding
> >> them
> >> canned every day (although I still leave out bowls of dry food for
> >> self-feeding throughout the day). What a difference!Their fur is nicer,
> >> their poops aren't so little and dry, they vomit less, and they just seem
> >> healthier overall. Canned food is good for their kidneys too. One of my
> >> senior cats (16 years old) has just been diagnosed with chronic renal
> >> failure. I read an article which speculated that an all-dry food diet can
> >> contribute to the development of this disease. I don't know if that's
> >> true
> >> or not, but I wish I had fed all of my cats canned food from the
> >> beginning.
> >> Also, I have seen other people on this newsgroup refer to Hills Science
> >> Diet
> >> as "garbage." I don't know if it is or isn't, but I do know there are
> >> better
> >> quality dry foods on the market as well.
> >> Best regards,
> >> ---Cindy S.
>
> > Small, firm poops are a sign that there's little waste in your cat's
> > food; larger, softer poops are a result of lower-quality food with
> > more filler that simply passes through your cat. Canned food is to a
> > great degree formulated to appeal to the cats' humans who do the
> > shopping, contains more filler, is higher-calorie, and is not as good
> > for their teeth as chewing kibble.
>
> All of these years, I was a firm believer in a dry food only diet. My reason
> was that I thought it would spare the cats' teeth. All I know is that
> Bullwinkle still ended up with periodontal disease despite my keeping up
> with his dentals and Amanda (at age 6) also has bad teeth. Alex, at age 16,
> has never needed a dental until now. Even at that it's questionable, but
> considering his age and CRF and cardiomyopathy, I'm not going to risk it. My
> point is that, regarding a cat's teeth, I think there is a certain genetic
> predisposition that comes into play, and it's not so simple as to say that
> limiting their diet to dry food will automatically assure good teeth.

Good thing I didn't say that, then, isn't it.

> With respect to the canned food being higher calorie, that may be true, but
> the calories in the dry food are mostly from carbohydrate. Alex (the same
> 16-year-old cat with the CRF and cardiomyopathy) was actually *cured* of
> diabetes with the use of Lantus (glargine) insulin and a switch to a canned
> food/Purina OM dry food diet. He is no longer on the insulin and his blood
> glucoses (which I check about once a month) are consistently in the 80 to 90
> range and have been for nearly a year. Alex (and Bullwinkle) have both lost
> weight on the canned food/OM diet. This weight loss may be due in part to
> aging or illness, but I was previously feeding them Iams Weight Control and
> no canned food.

Um, yah, it might.

Not sure how you think that contradicts what I said, and yet it reads
as if it's supposed to be one.

> >BUT, that doesn't mean that there
> > are never reasons to switch to a canned diet, and in the OP's case,
> > where the cat is having difficulty chewing kibble, and may need more
> > calories, it's certainly something I'd try--at least supplementing
> > with canned food, if not completely switching. Right now, though, I'd
> > probably be paranoid and go with Blue Buffalo Spa Select, or some
> > other really high-end food from a smaller company, rather than
> > anything from any of the big guys.
>
> > Most cats that live long enough eventually experience some degree of
> > renal failure. That your cat, at SIXTEEN, has done so, is not a sign
> > that you've not been feeding her a good diet--on the contrary, she's
> > obviously been well cared for to reach this age.
>
> I wasn't saying that I had necessarily been feeding him a bad diet. I was
> just saying that I had read a CRF website where someone was speculating
> about the causes of renal disease, and one opinion was that an all-dry food
> diet might be a contributor. All I know is that last year, after Alex was
> diagnosed with diabetes, my veterinarian encouraged me to switch to a part
> canned food diet because it contained a lot of water, which would increase
> his fluid intake, stating cats generally don't drink an equivalent of that
> amount. She said the additional moisture content would help with kidney
> function. I know this is an opinion held by many people, not just my
> veterinarian. Is it true? Don't know. But it's not as if my vet is employed
> by a cat food company. I do acknowledge that there are differences of
> opinion on this point, however.

"Someone." "Speculated."

Heck, it might even have been a knowledgable person who had solid
evidence and arguments for the idea. Who knows? Not me, not from what
you've said. "A CRF website" isn't even enough of a reference for me
to go take a look for myself.

Just because someone puts up a website, or posts something on a
website someone else put up, doesn't mean they necessarily know what
they're talking about. Doesn't mean they don't, either. That's why
references matter.

As for what your vet said about your cat--she's talking about a
particular cat and that cat's medical condition. Details matter, too,
and there ARE certainly circumstances where canned food is better. An
older cat, who's having difficulty chewing kibble, or not taking in
enough calories, or not taking in enough fluid, are all pretty obvious
ones.

<snip>

Lis

22brix
March 23rd 07, 10:12 PM
"Lis" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Mar 23, 11:05 am, "cindys" > wrote:
>> "Lis" > wrote in message
>>
>> ups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Mar 23, 8:12 am, "cindys" > wrote:
>> >> "lyngiven" > wrote in message
>>
>> oups.com...>Iwould
>> >> appreciate advice on what would be the best diet for my 13
>> >> > year old cat. She has been fed on Hill's Science Plan for several
>> >> > years but I don't think this is enough anymore. Dispite having had
>> >> > her teeth 'cleaned' recently by the vet I think she not able to chew
>> >> > the biscuits easily. Is it OK to supplement with very small helpings
>> >> > of softer food?
>>
>> >> --------
>> >> I think everyone on this group will agree that a premium brand of
>> >> canned
>> >> food is a much better diet for any cat of any age than dry food. I
>> >> always
>> >> fed my cats dry food only. In the last year or so, I have been feeding
>> >> them
>> >> canned every day (although I still leave out bowls of dry food for
>> >> self-feeding throughout the day). What a difference!Their fur is
>> >> nicer,
>> >> their poops aren't so little and dry, they vomit less, and they just
>> >> seem
>> >> healthier overall. Canned food is good for their kidneys too. One of
>> >> my
>> >> senior cats (16 years old) has just been diagnosed with chronic renal
>> >> failure. I read an article which speculated that an all-dry food diet
>> >> can
>> >> contribute to the development of this disease. I don't know if that's
>> >> true
>> >> or not, but I wish I had fed all of my cats canned food from the
>> >> beginning.
>> >> Also, I have seen other people on this newsgroup refer to Hills
>> >> Science
>> >> Diet
>> >> as "garbage." I don't know if it is or isn't, but I do know there are
>> >> better
>> >> quality dry foods on the market as well.
>> >> Best regards,
>> >> ---Cindy S.
>>
>> > Small, firm poops are a sign that there's little waste in your cat's
>> > food; larger, softer poops are a result of lower-quality food with
>> > more filler that simply passes through your cat. Canned food is to a
>> > great degree formulated to appeal to the cats' humans who do the
>> > shopping, contains more filler, is higher-calorie, and is not as good
>> > for their teeth as chewing kibble.

Small firm poops can also be a sign of constipation.

Where are your references regarding the caloric value of canned food? Or
for that matter, that dry kibble is better than wet for teeth?

>>
>> All of these years, I was a firm believer in a dry food only diet. My
>> reason
>> was that I thought it would spare the cats' teeth. All I know is that
>> Bullwinkle still ended up with periodontal disease despite my keeping up
>> with his dentals and Amanda (at age 6) also has bad teeth. Alex, at age
>> 16,
>> has never needed a dental until now. Even at that it's questionable, but
>> considering his age and CRF and cardiomyopathy, I'm not going to risk it.
>> My
>> point is that, regarding a cat's teeth, I think there is a certain
>> genetic
>> predisposition that comes into play, and it's not so simple as to say
>> that
>> limiting their diet to dry food will automatically assure good teeth.
>
> Good thing I didn't say that, then, isn't it.
>
>> With respect to the canned food being higher calorie, that may be true,
>> but
>> the calories in the dry food are mostly from carbohydrate. Alex (the same
>> 16-year-old cat with the CRF and cardiomyopathy) was actually *cured* of
>> diabetes with the use of Lantus (glargine) insulin and a switch to a
>> canned
>> food/Purina OM dry food diet. He is no longer on the insulin and his
>> blood
>> glucoses (which I check about once a month) are consistently in the 80 to
>> 90
>> range and have been for nearly a year. Alex (and Bullwinkle) have both
>> lost
>> weight on the canned food/OM diet. This weight loss may be due in part to
>> aging or illness, but I was previously feeding them Iams Weight Control
>> and
>> no canned food.
>
> Um, yah, it might.
>
> Not sure how you think that contradicts what I said, and yet it reads
> as if it's supposed to be one.


>> >BUT, that doesn't mean that there
>> > are never reasons to switch to a canned diet, and in the OP's case,
>> > where the cat is having difficulty chewing kibble, and may need more
>> > calories, it's certainly something I'd try--at least supplementing
>> > with canned food, if not completely switching. Right now, though, I'd
>> > probably be paranoid and go with Blue Buffalo Spa Select, or some
>> > other really high-end food from a smaller company, rather than
>> > anything from any of the big guys.
>>
>> > Most cats that live long enough eventually experience some degree of
>> > renal failure. That your cat, at SIXTEEN, has done so, is not a sign
>> > that you've not been feeding her a good diet--on the contrary, she's
>> > obviously been well cared for to reach this age.
>>
>> I wasn't saying that I had necessarily been feeding him a bad diet. I was
>> just saying that I had read a CRF website where someone was speculating
>> about the causes of renal disease, and one opinion was that an all-dry
>> food
>> diet might be a contributor. All I know is that last year, after Alex was
>> diagnosed with diabetes, my veterinarian encouraged me to switch to a
>> part
>> canned food diet because it contained a lot of water, which would
>> increase
>> his fluid intake, stating cats generally don't drink an equivalent of
>> that
>> amount. She said the additional moisture content would help with kidney
>> function. I know this is an opinion held by many people, not just my
>> veterinarian. Is it true? Don't know. But it's not as if my vet is
>> employed
>> by a cat food company. I do acknowledge that there are differences of
>> opinion on this point, however.
>
> "Someone." "Speculated."
>
> Heck, it might even have been a knowledgable person who had solid
> evidence and arguments for the idea. Who knows? Not me, not from what
> you've said. "A CRF website" isn't even enough of a reference for me
> to go take a look for myself.
>
> Just because someone puts up a website, or posts something on a
> website someone else put up, doesn't mean they necessarily know what
> they're talking about. Doesn't mean they don't, either. That's why
> references matter.



And your references are??? You sound pretty sure of yourself and yet
you've not given us any references either. From reading Cindy's post, she's
just sharing her experience she's had with her cats.

>
> As for what your vet said about your cat--she's talking about a
> particular cat and that cat's medical condition. Details matter, too,
> and there ARE certainly circumstances where canned food is better. An
> older cat, who's having difficulty chewing kibble, or not taking in
> enough calories, or not taking in enough fluid, are all pretty obvious
> ones.

Agreed

>
> <snip>
>
> Lis
>

cindys
March 23rd 07, 10:41 PM
I'm sorry you apparently took my post as some sort of a personal attack. It
wasn't intended that way. It is normal on Usenet for people to have
differences of opinion. Not everyone is going to agree all of the time.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.


"Lis" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Mar 23, 11:05 am, "cindys" > wrote:
>> "Lis" > wrote in message
>>
>> ups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Mar 23, 8:12 am, "cindys" > wrote:
>> >> "lyngiven" > wrote in message
>>
>> oups.com...>Iwould
>> >> appreciate advice on what would be the best diet for my 13
>> >> > year old cat. She has been fed on Hill's Science Plan for several
>> >> > years but I don't think this is enough anymore. Dispite having had
>> >> > her teeth 'cleaned' recently by the vet I think she not able to chew
>> >> > the biscuits easily. Is it OK to supplement with very small helpings
>> >> > of softer food?
>>
>> >> --------
>> >> I think everyone on this group will agree that a premium brand of
>> >> canned
>> >> food is a much better diet for any cat of any age than dry food. I
>> >> always
>> >> fed my cats dry food only. In the last year or so, I have been feeding
>> >> them
>> >> canned every day (although I still leave out bowls of dry food for
>> >> self-feeding throughout the day). What a difference!Their fur is
>> >> nicer,
>> >> their poops aren't so little and dry, they vomit less, and they just
>> >> seem
>> >> healthier overall. Canned food is good for their kidneys too. One of
>> >> my
>> >> senior cats (16 years old) has just been diagnosed with chronic renal
>> >> failure. I read an article which speculated that an all-dry food diet
>> >> can
>> >> contribute to the development of this disease. I don't know if that's
>> >> true
>> >> or not, but I wish I had fed all of my cats canned food from the
>> >> beginning.
>> >> Also, I have seen other people on this newsgroup refer to Hills
>> >> Science
>> >> Diet
>> >> as "garbage." I don't know if it is or isn't, but I do know there are
>> >> better
>> >> quality dry foods on the market as well.
>> >> Best regards,
>> >> ---Cindy S.
>>
>> > Small, firm poops are a sign that there's little waste in your cat's
>> > food; larger, softer poops are a result of lower-quality food with
>> > more filler that simply passes through your cat. Canned food is to a
>> > great degree formulated to appeal to the cats' humans who do the
>> > shopping, contains more filler, is higher-calorie, and is not as good
>> > for their teeth as chewing kibble.
>>
>> All of these years, I was a firm believer in a dry food only diet. My
>> reason
>> was that I thought it would spare the cats' teeth. All I know is that
>> Bullwinkle still ended up with periodontal disease despite my keeping up
>> with his dentals and Amanda (at age 6) also has bad teeth. Alex, at age
>> 16,
>> has never needed a dental until now. Even at that it's questionable, but
>> considering his age and CRF and cardiomyopathy, I'm not going to risk it.
>> My
>> point is that, regarding a cat's teeth, I think there is a certain
>> genetic
>> predisposition that comes into play, and it's not so simple as to say
>> that
>> limiting their diet to dry food will automatically assure good teeth.
>
> Good thing I didn't say that, then, isn't it.
>
>> With respect to the canned food being higher calorie, that may be true,
>> but
>> the calories in the dry food are mostly from carbohydrate. Alex (the same
>> 16-year-old cat with the CRF and cardiomyopathy) was actually *cured* of
>> diabetes with the use of Lantus (glargine) insulin and a switch to a
>> canned
>> food/Purina OM dry food diet. He is no longer on the insulin and his
>> blood
>> glucoses (which I check about once a month) are consistently in the 80 to
>> 90
>> range and have been for nearly a year. Alex (and Bullwinkle) have both
>> lost
>> weight on the canned food/OM diet. This weight loss may be due in part to
>> aging or illness, but I was previously feeding them Iams Weight Control
>> and
>> no canned food.
>
> Um, yah, it might.
>
> Not sure how you think that contradicts what I said, and yet it reads
> as if it's supposed to be one.
>
>> >BUT, that doesn't mean that there
>> > are never reasons to switch to a canned diet, and in the OP's case,
>> > where the cat is having difficulty chewing kibble, and may need more
>> > calories, it's certainly something I'd try--at least supplementing
>> > with canned food, if not completely switching. Right now, though, I'd
>> > probably be paranoid and go with Blue Buffalo Spa Select, or some
>> > other really high-end food from a smaller company, rather than
>> > anything from any of the big guys.
>>
>> > Most cats that live long enough eventually experience some degree of
>> > renal failure. That your cat, at SIXTEEN, has done so, is not a sign
>> > that you've not been feeding her a good diet--on the contrary, she's
>> > obviously been well cared for to reach this age.
>>
>> I wasn't saying that I had necessarily been feeding him a bad diet. I was
>> just saying that I had read a CRF website where someone was speculating
>> about the causes of renal disease, and one opinion was that an all-dry
>> food
>> diet might be a contributor. All I know is that last year, after Alex was
>> diagnosed with diabetes, my veterinarian encouraged me to switch to a
>> part
>> canned food diet because it contained a lot of water, which would
>> increase
>> his fluid intake, stating cats generally don't drink an equivalent of
>> that
>> amount. She said the additional moisture content would help with kidney
>> function. I know this is an opinion held by many people, not just my
>> veterinarian. Is it true? Don't know. But it's not as if my vet is
>> employed
>> by a cat food company. I do acknowledge that there are differences of
>> opinion on this point, however.
>
> "Someone." "Speculated."
>
> Heck, it might even have been a knowledgable person who had solid
> evidence and arguments for the idea. Who knows? Not me, not from what
> you've said. "A CRF website" isn't even enough of a reference for me
> to go take a look for myself.
>
> Just because someone puts up a website, or posts something on a
> website someone else put up, doesn't mean they necessarily know what
> they're talking about. Doesn't mean they don't, either. That's why
> references matter.
>
> As for what your vet said about your cat--she's talking about a
> particular cat and that cat's medical condition. Details matter, too,
> and there ARE certainly circumstances where canned food is better. An
> older cat, who's having difficulty chewing kibble, or not taking in
> enough calories, or not taking in enough fluid, are all pretty obvious
> ones.
>
> <snip>
>
> Lis
>

Phil P.
March 25th 07, 11:35 AM
"Lis" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>

Canned food is to a
> great degree formulated to appeal to the cats' humans

Actually, canned food is formulated to resemble the cat's natural diet.
Cats have adapted to obtain most of their water from their diet. that's why
canned food contains ~75% moisture. Cats fed canned food can meet almost
their entire water requirement from their food- as in nature- and need to
drink only very little. Cats fed dry food have a lower total water intake
and water turnover, Dry food was developed for owner convenience and
economy.


who do the
> shopping, contains more filler, is higher-calorie,


Dry food on average has a higher caloric density than canned food, but most
of those calories are useless carbohydrates- for which cats have no dietary
need.


and is not as good
> for their teeth as chewing kibble.

First of all, cats don't chew food- they can't. Their condyloid process is
bar-shaped and only allows their jaw to move vertically. Their condyloid
process is shaped like a bar to prevent lateral movement while the cat is
holding struggling
prey. Without lateral and rotary movement, cats *can't* chew.

http://maxshouse.com/anatomy/mandible__right__medial_view.jpg

Their teeth and jaws are designed to rip and cut in a shearing manner. Cats
don't have first premolars or lower first or second
premolars; the molars consist of a *single* upper and lower tooth on each
side. So, cats have no teeth to grind food (masticate).

When the cat closes her mouth the upper and lower carnassial teeth
slide across each other producing a scissor-like cutting action, not a
chewing action. So there's no dental benefit of eating dry food.

The *only* dry foods that have some dental benefit are special dental diets
that have large nuggets into which cats can sink their teeth. The nuggets
must also be hard but not brittle so they don't shatter when the cats bites
into them. Most dry foods are swallowed whole or shatter when bitten
producing little to no dental benefit- which clearly don't offset the risks-
especially for male cats.

See "Dry Food vs Canned Food. Which is really better?" @
http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm