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krazy
March 23rd 07, 04:14 PM
According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the
recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they would
have more on the evening news.



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Lisa
March 23rd 07, 05:11 PM
On Mar 23, 12:14 pm, (krazy) wrote:
> According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the
> recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they would
> have more on the evening news.
>
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> Reply to news groups for all to see please.
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> ={ >}=
> ************************************************** ***


I think some of those pet food execs are going to be eating pet food
themselves. Sue on, sue on, pet lovers!

-L.
March 23rd 07, 05:22 PM
krazy wrote:
> According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the
> recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they would
> have more on the evening news.
>

Rat poison found in now-recalled pet food ALBANY, N.Y. - Rat poison
has been found in pet food blamed for the deaths of at least 16 cats
and dogs, a spokeswoman for the State Department of Agriculture and
Markets said Friday.

Spokeswoman Jessica Chittenden would not identify the chemical or its
source beyond saying it was a rodent poison.
ABC News reported it was aminopterin that may have been on imported
wheat used in the pet food. Aminopterin is used to kill rats in some
countries but is not registered for that use in the United States,
according to the Environmental Protection Agency. The chemical, also a
cancer drug, is highly toxic in high doses.

Officials from the agriculture department and Cornell University's
Animal Health Diagnostic Center would not immediately confirm the ABC
report but scheduled a news conference Friday afternoon to release
laboratory findings from tests on the pet food.
The Food and Drug Administration has said the investigation was
focusing on wheat gluten in the food. Wheat gluten itself would not
cause kidney failure, but the common ingredient could have been
contaminated by heavy metals or mold toxins, the FDA said.

State and FBI officials said they knew of no criminal investigations
in the case.
The pet deaths led to a recall of 60 million cans and pouches of pet
food produced by Menu Foods and sold throughout North America under 95
brand names. There have been several reports of kidney failure in pets
that ate the recalled brands, and the company has confirmed the deaths
of 15 cats and one dog.

Menu Foods last week recalled "cuts and gravy" style dog and cat food.
The recall sparked concern among pet owners across North America. It
includes food sold under store brands carried by Wal-Mart, Kroger,
Safeway and other large retailers, as well as private labels such as
Iams, Nutro and Eukanuba.
Menu Foods is majority owned by Menu Foods Income Fund of
Streetsville. The company also makes foods for zoo cats, but those
products are unaffected by the recall.

The company's chief executive and president said Menu Foods delayed
announcing the recall until it could confirm that the animals had
eaten its product before dying. Two earlier complaints from consumers
whose cats had died involved animals that lived outside or had access
to a garage, which left open the possibility they had been poisoned by
something other than contaminated food, he said.
Menu Foods planned a media teleconference for later Friday, a
spokesman said.

A spokesman for New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo said he was not
aware of any criminal investigation involving the tainted food. FBI
spokesman Paul Holstein in Albany said Friday he was not aware of any
FBI involvement in the case.
"I don't know where we'll go from here," he said.

A complete list of the recalled products along with product codes,
descriptions and production dates was posted online by Menu Foods. The
company also designated two phone numbers that pet owners could call
for information: (866) 463-6738 and (866) 895-2708.
---
-L.

Kittie Kat
March 23rd 07, 06:34 PM
On Mar 23, 12:11 pm, "Lisa" > wrote:
> On Mar 23, 12:14 pm, (krazy) wrote:
>
>
>
> > According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the
> > recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they would
> > have more on the evening news.
>
> > --
> > X-Signature: Default
> > ************************************************** ***
> > E-mail address altered to foil spam.
> > Reply to news groups for all to see please.
> > _
> > / )
> > (\__/) ( (
> > ) ( ) )
> > ={ }= / /
> > ) `-------/ /
> > ( /
> > \ |
> > ,'\ , ,'
> > `-'\ ,---\ | \
> > _) ) `. \ /
> > (__/ ) )
> > (_/
>
> > (\__/)
> > )oo(
> > ={ >}=
> > ************************************************** ***
>
> I think some of those pet food execs are going to be eating pet food
> themselves. Sue on, sue on, pet lovers!

Bravo.

Fred
March 24th 07, 02:18 AM
krazy wrote:

>
>
> According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the
> recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they
> would have more on the evening news.
>
>
On the CBC evening news here in Canada, (and I don't want to start a
knee-jerk reaction here), they said the wheat gluten was sourced in China.
Now depending on your political orientation you will blame the Chinese or
suspect that someone contaminated the food to discredit the Chinese. We
may never know, but it's interesting how the layers are coming off the
onion as more and more info comes to light. Did they not mention the China
connection in the States? It was on the 9:00 o'clock news, Eastern time,
here in "Catnada."

--
Regards, Fred

Celticbeard
March 24th 07, 03:15 AM
Buried a 14 year old tabby in December 06 from a sudden and rapid
kidney failure. She ate Iams and Fancy feast and I noticed she seemed
to dislike the gravy style food and we bought it a couple of times by
mistake and expectde her to eat it anyway.

Got the vet bills and grave in the yard to prove it. They say it
started as early as December but I strongly suspect it was almost
certainly in the food chain as early as October or November and my
last tabby Rosie went out fast because she was not a strong or young
kitten anymore.

They a full of poop if they are trying to say they have no clue. They
have lots of clues but they want to sift through them and spin it in
the best possible light for themselves. When we look at the salaries
of execs in this country and then for them to allow something like
this to happen, they deserve proper penalties to offset the huge
rewards they normally enjoy.

Now I have to worry that my new cat was given any of the leftover food
because I never suspected premium IAMS would be on the cat killer
list.

Divinorumus
March 24th 07, 09:04 AM
> When we look at the salaries of execs in this country

Here are their names:

Robert W. Luba: Chairman and Trustee of the Fund, Chairman of Menu
Foods GenPar Limited
Alexander R. Aird: Trustee of the Fund, Director of Menu Foods GenPar
Limited
Serge K. Darkazanli: Trustee of the Fund, Director of Menu Foods
GenPar Limited
Eric A. Demirian: Trustee of the Fund, Director of Menu Foods GenPar
Limited
Thomas A Di Giacomo: Trustee of the Fund, Director of Menu Foods
GenPar Limited
Stephen A. Bearg: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Margaret A. Bras: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Robert W. Bras: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Douglas F. Haslam: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Fraser D. Latta: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Douglas N. Lunau: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Donald G. Watt: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Paul K. Henderson: President, Chief Executive Officer and Director of
Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Mark A. Wiens: Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer of
Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Dr. Richard G. Shields Jr.: Executive Vice President - Technical
Services of Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Randall C. Copeland: Executive Vice President - Sales and Marketing of
Menu Foods GenPar Limited
William F. Grant: Executive Vice President - Corporate Purchasing and
Logistics of Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Christopher J. Mifflin: Executive Vice President - Operations of Menu
Foods GenPar Limited

All of these people, including those brands that were reselling this
crap as their own (i.e. IAMS, Science Diet, etc.), should be made to
EAT a pouch or two of what they are hawking every day if they think it
is so safe. *******S! They should feel lucky that, so far, my two
cats are okay (because I'm an eye for an eye kind of guy!!!)
*******S!

I'm sure we'll have the name of more heads soon.

Barnabas Collins
March 24th 07, 05:07 PM
On 23 Mar 2007 20:15:25 -0700, "Celticbeard" >
wrote:

>Buried a 14 year old tabby in December 06 from a sudden and rapid
>kidney failure. She ate Iams and Fancy feast and I noticed she seemed
>to dislike the gravy style food and we bought it a couple of times by
>mistake and expectde her to eat it anyway.
>
>Got the vet bills and grave in the yard to prove it. They say it
>started as early as December but I strongly suspect it was almost
>certainly in the food chain as early as October or November and my
>last tabby Rosie went out fast because she was not a strong or young
>kitten anymore.
>
>They a full of poop if they are trying to say they have no clue. They
>have lots of clues but they want to sift through them and spin it in
>the best possible light for themselves. When we look at the salaries
>of execs in this country and then for them to allow something like
>this to happen, they deserve proper penalties to offset the huge
>rewards they normally enjoy.
>
>Now I have to worry that my new cat was given any of the leftover food
>because I never suspected premium IAMS would be on the cat killer
>list.

Before you come down too hard on Iams beer in mind this stretched
across NINETY+ brands. Iams plus 89 other brands at least.

Before you blame IAMS the ultimate responsibility is the supplier in
China. Menu foods may have been a victim of choosing the wrong
supplier. (Bear in mind too sometimes these ingredients are only
availalbe from two mfg. so if one mfg. is down for whatever reason
the only other option is this one company in China.

So before you blame IAMS remember the other 89 brands that
also used this ingredient incuding Science Diet, Purina,
and many others.

As far as whether you're cat was victim of this, i'd start with
your vet. Maybe you're vet could shed light on whether you could
prove a connection?

It may be somewhat pricey to check it out but for peace of mind
you might want to pursue it further. I know if it were my cat
i'd feel obligated to pursue it further.

Barnabas Collins
March 24th 07, 05:15 PM
On 24 Mar 2007 02:04:03 -0700, "Divinorumus" >
wrote:
>All of these people, including those brands that were reselling this
>crap as their own (i.e. IAMS, Science Diet, etc.), should be made to
>EAT a pouch or two of what they are hawking every day if they think it
>is so safe. *******S! They should feel lucky that, so far, my two
>cats are okay (because I'm an eye for an eye kind of guy!!!)
>*******S!
>
>I'm sure we'll have the name of more heads soon.
>
One thing i'm wondering after the 90+ brands of moist food are
removed the shelves is there anything left?

(I'm fortunate that all my cats only do dry food. My oldest has
never tolerated moist food.)

But i'd want further details before blaming IAMS/science diet/
purina and the other 87 brands. After all it comes down
to a question of who knew what when.

(I'd add that is probably sheer luck that New York officials
stumbled on what the ingredient was.)

Lisa
March 24th 07, 08:22 PM
On Mar 23, 1:22 pm, "-L." > wrote:
> krazy wrote:
> > According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the
> > recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they would
> > have more on the evening news.
>
> Rat poison found in now-recalled pet food ALBANY, N.Y. - Rat poison
> has been found in pet food blamed for the deaths of at least 16 cats
> and dogs, a spokeswoman for the State Department of Agriculture and
> Markets said Friday.
>
> Spokeswoman Jessica Chittenden would not identify the chemical or its
> source beyond saying it was a rodent poison.
> ABC News reported it was aminopterin that may have been on imported
> wheat used in the pet food. Aminopterin is used to kill rats in some
> countries but is not registered for that use in the United States,
> according to the Environmental Protection Agency. The chemical, also a
> cancer drug, is highly toxic in high doses.

The US is importing an increasing amount of food from abroad,
especially from places with much lower safety standards, like Chile
and Mexico. I think people ought to rethink this dangerous policy.

Your life and your loved ones lives are at stake.

Lisa

Cory
March 24th 07, 09:00 PM
On Mar 24, 11:07 am, Barnabas Collins >
wrote:
<snip...>
> Before you come down too hard on Iams beer in mind this stretched
> across NINETY+ brands. Iams plus 89 other brands at least.
>
> Before you blame IAMS the ultimate responsibility is the supplier in
> China. Menu foods may have been a victim of choosing the wrong
> supplier.

MY personal problem with Menu Foods is that they SAT on their info.
for, some reports have said, as many as two weeks before they
announced any kind of a problem with their food. To me, that's
inexcuseable. You can want to track down the source of the problem
all you want and make sure it's not something else before you release
ALL the information to the public about the contaminated food, but at
least tell your damn consumers that there IS a problem in the first
place. The fact that MF didn't do even THAT much is garbage, plain
and simple.

Also, according to published news reports, Menu Foods learned of the
problem after something like 9 cats got sick and died during routine
taste testing.

Er... 'scuse me, but wouldn't a frickin' red flag go up after the
first ONE OR TWO deaths (certainly by the THIRD one, I would
think!)???

There are a lot of angry pet owners across North America right now,
and there should be. We have a right to be angry.

Menu Foods messed up and didn't handle this recall right from start to
finish.

Do I feel bad that they may have gotten the screws put to 'em by a
faulty supplier? Sure, I do. However, when you sit on something of
THIS magnitude for weeks and let pets die before you go public with
ANY sort of information about a potential problem, then YOU are just
as culpable in my book as the supplier of the defective product is.

--- Cory

Andy
March 24th 07, 11:50 PM
Barnabas Collins wrote:

>>
> One thing i'm wondering after the 90+ brands of moist food are
> removed the shelves is there anything left?

The soft food shelves at our local Safeway are better than half empty.

>
> (I'm fortunate that all my cats only do dry food. My oldest has
> never tolerated moist food.)

I had to wean both mine off of soft food because it was causing
obesity problems for my young tom. They have occasional kitchen snacks.

And glad I did ;\

My girlfriend may not have been as fortunate...

>
> But i'd want further details before blaming IAMS/science diet/
> purina and the other 87 brands. After all it comes down
> to a question of who knew what when.

Where it originated.

>
> (I'd add that is probably sheer luck that New York officials
> stumbled on what the ingredient was.)
>

I read that it was one of the two centers set up for bioterrorism
testing that found it. If so, kudos.

It's frustrating not knowing what's going on...

A
--
"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are
fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives
up but with life itself."
- Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

"The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its
thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools," Thucydides.

Barnabas Collins
March 25th 07, 12:22 AM
On 24 Mar 2007 14:00:27 -0700, "Cory" > wrote:
>MY personal problem with Menu Foods is that they SAT on their info.
>for, some reports have said, as many as two weeks before they
>announced any kind of a problem with their food.
Maybe they had no idea what was causing the problem?
>Do I feel bad that they may have gotten the screws put to 'em by a
>faulty supplier? Sure, I do. However, when you sit on something of
>THIS magnitude for weeks and let pets die before you go public with
>ANY sort of information about a potential problem, then YOU are just
>as culpable in my book as the supplier of the defective product is.
Do we know for a fact this happened?

Granby
March 25th 07, 12:25 AM
My question still remains, where is the Quality control all these brands
advertise, especially the more expensive ones, that is so important to
them? Even after two cats died a blind man could see there was a problem,
just ask us!
"Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
...
> Barnabas Collins wrote:
>
>>>
>> One thing i'm wondering after the 90+ brands of moist food are removed
>> the shelves is there anything left?
>
> The soft food shelves at our local Safeway are better than half empty.
>
>>
>> (I'm fortunate that all my cats only do dry food. My oldest has
>> never tolerated moist food.)
>
> I had to wean both mine off of soft food because it was causing obesity
> problems for my young tom. They have occasional kitchen snacks.
>
> And glad I did ;\
>
> My girlfriend may not have been as fortunate...
>
>>
>> But i'd want further details before blaming IAMS/science diet/
>> purina and the other 87 brands. After all it comes down
>> to a question of who knew what when.
>
> Where it originated.
>
>>
>> (I'd add that is probably sheer luck that New York officials
>> stumbled on what the ingredient was.)
>>
>
> I read that it was one of the two centers set up for bioterrorism testing
> that found it. If so, kudos.
>
> It's frustrating not knowing what's going on...
>
> A
> --
> "It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are
> fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up
> but with life itself."
> - Declaration of Arbroath, 1320
>
> "The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its
> thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools," Thucydides.

Barnabas Collins
March 25th 07, 02:48 AM
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:50:45 -0600, Andy <[email protected]> wrote:

>Barnabas Collins wrote:
>
>>>
>> One thing i'm wondering after the 90+ brands of moist food are
>> removed the shelves is there anything left?
>
> The soft food shelves at our local Safeway are better than half empty.
But after you remove the 90+ brands of moist food is there any moist
food left?

>
>>
>> (I'm fortunate that all my cats only do dry food. My oldest has
>> never tolerated moist food.)
>
> I had to wean both mine off of soft food because it was causing
>obesity problems for my young tom. They have occasional kitchen snacks.
Maybe the kitchen snacks are contributing to the obesity?

Barnabas Collins
March 25th 07, 02:54 AM
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 19:25:02 -0500, "Granby" > wrote:

>My question still remains, where is the Quality control all these brands
>advertise, especially the more expensive ones, that is so important to
>them? Even after two cats died a blind man could see there was a problem,
>just ask us!
I don't want to be in a position to defend menu but you've never
worked in retail have you? The problem could be anywhere in a
long chain. From the factory to the warehouse, the entire
distribution system, the retail warehouses, the retailer, etc.
The problem (if there is one could stretch anywhere along the
chain. Remember the Tylenol scare? That occurred on the shelf
at the store.

Andy
March 25th 07, 03:43 AM
Granby wrote:
> My question still remains, where is the Quality control all these brands
> advertise, especially the more expensive ones, that is so important to
> them? Even after two cats died a blind man could see there was a problem,
> just ask us!

Yup, that's the Real Question, regardless of whether or not aminopterin
is the ultimate cause. They still let something slip by them that
shouldn't have.

I've been wondering for a couple hours, if MF goes under the weight of
the pressure they are going to face, and have to cease operations, what
are all the big brand names going to do?

This isn't bad grain, this is a human produced specific poison.

A
--
"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are
fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives
up but with life itself."
- Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

"The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its
thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools," Thucydides.

Andy
March 25th 07, 03:50 AM
Barnabas Collins wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 19:25:02 -0500, "Granby" > wrote:
>
>> My question still remains, where is the Quality control all these brands
>> advertise, especially the more expensive ones, that is so important to
>> them? Even after two cats died a blind man could see there was a problem,
>> just ask us!
> I don't want to be in a position to defend menu but you've never
> worked in retail have you? The problem could be anywhere in a
> long chain.

No, it couldn't. It's too widespread. It has to originate from a
single source somewhere inside or upstream of the plants it was
manufactured in, not on the retail distribution end. Otherwise we would
see a very skewed distribution by region.

A
--
"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are
fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives
up but with life itself."
- Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

"The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its
thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools," Thucydides.

Granby
March 25th 07, 03:52 AM
One should never assume anything. Yes, as a matter of fact I am in retail.
I have to watch code dates, product condition, source of product etc. I
quarantee you if even one of my customers dropped dead after eating anything
from my jobsite, it wouldn't take two weeks for the word to get out.
Second, how can you say IF IT HAPPENED? One of the producers admits that
nine cats died just from normal taste testing.
"Barnabas Collins" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 19:25:02 -0500, "Granby" > wrote:
>
>>My question still remains, where is the Quality control all these brands
>>advertise, especially the more expensive ones, that is so important to
>>them? Even after two cats died a blind man could see there was a problem,
>>just ask us!
> I don't want to be in a position to defend menu but you've never
> worked in retail have you? The problem could be anywhere in a
> long chain. From the factory to the warehouse, the entire
> distribution system, the retail warehouses, the retailer, etc.
> The problem (if there is one could stretch anywhere along the
> chain. Remember the Tylenol scare? That occurred on the shelf
> at the store.

Andy
March 25th 07, 04:03 AM
Barnabas Collins wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:50:45 -0600, Andy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Barnabas Collins wrote:
>>
>>> One thing i'm wondering after the 90+ brands of moist food are
>>> removed the shelves is there anything left?
>> The soft food shelves at our local Safeway are better than half empty.
> But after you remove the 90+ brands of moist food is there any moist
> food left?

Sorry, I wasn't clear - the soft cat food shelves are half empty.

>
>>> (I'm fortunate that all my cats only do dry food. My oldest has
>>> never tolerated moist food.)
>> I had to wean both mine off of soft food because it was causing
>> obesity problems for my young tom. They have occasional kitchen snacks.
> Maybe the kitchen snacks are contributing to the obesity?
>

It was two years ago and the problem is solved already, but thanks for
your input. Two months after I began taking them off commercial soft
food for snacks and substituted homemade kitchen morsels my tom had lost
4 lbs; and now he's as healthy as I could wish. Still overweight, but
not dangerously so.

Please note that I *never* overfed; it was the content of the feed
that was causing the problem. Specifically, for Bandit (the tom) too
much grain products in his diet - and it was my vets recommendation to
cut them out. My older female seems to tolerate such just fine, but
Bandit did not.


A
--
"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are
fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives
up but with life itself."
- Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

"The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its
thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools," Thucydides.

Andy
March 25th 07, 07:09 AM
Barnabas Collins wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 20:50:14 -0600, Andy <[email protected]> wrote:
>> No, it couldn't. It's too widespread. It has to originate from a
>> single source somewhere inside or upstream of the plants it was
>> manufactured in, not on the retail distribution end. Otherwise we would
>> see a very skewed distribution by region.
> You do realize someone could taint the product on store shelves in
> by flying to each city and doing at the retail level?
>
> That has occurred before.

I realize that, and yes, I was around.

This is happening on a different scale, the way it's spread is
entirely different. It's not some lone nutcase on the retail side. It
*has* to be factory or upstream. Not even a battalion of nutcases could
fly from city to city and produce the distribution of cases.

If you've been surfing the web news this week you should see the
patterns.

A

--
"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are
fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives
up but with life itself."
- Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

"The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its
thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools," Thucydides.

Andy
March 25th 07, 07:14 AM
Barnabas Collins wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 20:43:49 -0600, Andy <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I've been wondering for a couple hours, if MF goes under the weight of
>> the pressure they are going to face, and have to cease operations, what
>> are all the big brand names going to do?
> I'd point out the same thing happened to Tylenol and they survived.

You missed my point.

If MF shuts down, the big brands will be scrambling for someone to
manufacture their products. (Be best if they did it themselves, but that
means they'd have to spend real money on factories. And R&D, and stuff.
Sigh )


>
>
>> This isn't bad grain, this is a human produced specific poison.

> from China.....

Now, now. The anti-chink group is that --> way ;\

A
--
"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are
fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives
up but with life itself."
- Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

"The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its
thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools," Thucydides.

William Graham
March 25th 07, 07:18 AM
"Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
...
> Barnabas Collins wrote:
>> On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 20:50:14 -0600, Andy <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> No, it couldn't. It's too widespread. It has to originate from a single
>>> source somewhere inside or upstream of the plants it was manufactured
>>> in, not on the retail distribution end. Otherwise we would see a very
>>> skewed distribution by region.
>> You do realize someone could taint the product on store shelves in by
>> flying to each city and doing at the retail level?
>>
>> That has occurred before.
>
> I realize that, and yes, I was around.
>
> This is happening on a different scale, the way it's spread is entirely
> different. It's not some lone nutcase on the retail side. It *has* to be
> factory or upstream. Not even a battalion of nutcases could fly from city
> to city and produce the distribution of cases.
>
> If you've been surfing the web news this week you should see the
> patterns.

I wonder if we get the gluten from China, or just the wheat, and then we
make the gluten here.....It strikes me that we should be sending wheat to
china, and not getting wheat from China.....Doesn't the US make more wheat
than like, everybody?
My guess is that we send the wheat to China, and they turn it into
gluten (whatever that is) and then send it back....I know we do this with
olives and olive oil. Most olives are grown in California. We then ship them
to Italy, where they make the olive oil, and then send it back to us in
fancy bottles labeled, "Italian Olive Oil". (In Italian, of course)
But if we grow the wheat here, then why would the Chinese contaminate it
with rat poison? One would think that we would contaminate it with the rat
poison if anybody is going to do so at all......Do the rats wait until it is
on Chinese soil before they eat it?
Sorry.....Just musing......

Barnabas Collins
March 25th 07, 07:38 AM
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 20:50:14 -0600, Andy <[email protected]> wrote:
> No, it couldn't. It's too widespread. It has to originate from a
>single source somewhere inside or upstream of the plants it was
>manufactured in, not on the retail distribution end. Otherwise we would
>see a very skewed distribution by region.
You weren't around for the Tylenol scare were you? Something like
this could have put in any where along the line, as Tylenol and
other companies have found out the hard way. That is why they
have the caps they do on many products.

If you want to extort money from a corporation tainting a product
is one place to start. A number of cases have occurred over the
years.

Too many corporations have learned that lesson the hard way.

Barnabas Collins
March 25th 07, 07:40 AM
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 20:50:14 -0600, Andy <[email protected]> wrote:
> No, it couldn't. It's too widespread. It has to originate from a
>single source somewhere inside or upstream of the plants it was
>manufactured in, not on the retail distribution end. Otherwise we would
>see a very skewed distribution by region.
You do realize someone could taint the product on store shelves in
by flying to each city and doing at the retail level?

That has occurred before.

Barnabas Collins
March 25th 07, 07:46 AM
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 21:52:19 -0500, "Granby" > wrote:

>One should never assume anything. Yes, as a matter of fact I am in retail.
>I have to watch code dates, product condition, source of product etc. I
>quarantee you if even one of my customers dropped dead after eating anything
>from my jobsite, it wouldn't take two weeks for the word to get out.
>Second, how can you say IF IT HAPPENED? One of the producers admits that
>nine cats died just from normal taste testing.

But the question is who knew what and when did they know it?

Bear in mind there is a long chain of events that occur from
the mfg. to store shelves.

I'd also add that Menu foods is in Canada subject to Canadian law.
And the supplier is in China subject to China law. There are many
questions to answer before convicting them.

This may well have been mishandled but someone needs to prove that
in a court of law.

Barnabas Collins
March 25th 07, 07:49 AM
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 20:43:49 -0600, Andy <[email protected]> wrote:
> I've been wondering for a couple hours, if MF goes under the weight of
>the pressure they are going to face, and have to cease operations, what
>are all the big brand names going to do?
I'd point out the same thing happened to Tylenol and they survived.


>This isn't bad grain, this is a human produced specific poison.
from China.....

Upscale
March 25th 07, 08:54 AM
"Barnabas Collins" > wrote in message
>
> (I'm fortunate that all my cats only do dry food. My oldest has
> never tolerated moist food.)

Yes, I'm lucky in that regard too. I feed my cat the Iams multicat dry cat
chow and that's all she will eat. Of course, that doesn't prevent her from
inspecting every bit of food that I eat, but I can live with that. :)

Upscale
March 25th 07, 09:00 AM
"Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> This is happening on a different scale, the way it's spread is
> entirely different. It's not some lone nutcase on the retail side. It
> *has* to be factory or upstream. Not even a battalion of nutcases could
> fly from city to city and produce the distribution of cases.

I might have missed them, but I haven't seen any specific reports on where
the (reported so far) poisoning cases have occurred. But, as more of them
come in, they should/will eventually point to one location of contamination.
That is assuming as you say, that this wasn't caused by a lone nutcase.

Upscale
March 25th 07, 09:09 AM
"Granby" > wrote in message
...
> One should never assume anything. Yes, as a matter of fact I am in
retail.
> I have to watch code dates, product condition, source of product etc. I
> quarantee you if even one of my customers dropped dead after eating
anything
> from my jobsite, it wouldn't take two weeks for the word to get out.

Sorry, but that's too easy a statement to make. Nobody in higher management
(and that would include you if you were at that level) is going to
immediately drop the drop the hammer on making some kind of accusation just
on the basis of a suspicion. And that's all you'd have in the beginning. You
might immediately start an investigation of some kind, but you as higher
management would know that making a flat out statement about the dangers of
a product can destroy an entire company very quickly. And, it wouldn't be
the first time that someone had become a whistle blower, been wrong with
their accusations and completely destroyed an honest ethical company.

Andy
March 25th 07, 09:11 AM
Upscale wrote:
> "Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> This is happening on a different scale, the way it's spread is
>> entirely different. It's not some lone nutcase on the retail side. It
>> *has* to be factory or upstream. Not even a battalion of nutcases could
>> fly from city to city and produce the distribution of cases.
>
> I might have missed them, but I haven't seen any specific reports on where
> the (reported so far) poisoning cases have occurred. But, as more of them
> come in, they should/will eventually point to one location of contamination.
> That is assuming as you say, that this wasn't caused by a lone nutcase.
>
>

I haven't seen any official reports on the distribution either, it's
mostly just my feeling after reading hundreds of articles this week. The
reported cases are very widespread, sometimes with cities very near each
other having vastly differing case loads. That says to me that the
distribution of the toxin was at least at the factory level or above.

Google "pet food recall" sometime and sort the results by case dates,
then look thru them and note the cases by city; you might see the
patterns that way. Lots of stuff to sort thru and much repetition - no
doubt someone with better skills and tools is already looking at this
already, but to me it seems obvious *shrug*

We wait and we see... and we hope, eh? If it was a retail level lone
nutcase the reports should die down relatively quickly after the recall.

A
--
"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are
fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives
up but with life itself."
- Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

"The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its
thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools," Thucydides.

Upscale
March 25th 07, 09:12 AM
"Barnabas Collins" > wrote in message
> I'd point out the same thing happened to Tylenol and they survived.

And it did usher in a new era of safety measures for the entire drug and
food industry. It's highly likely this current pet food fiasco will do the
same thing. There's just too much big business money involved for them not
to.

Upscale
March 25th 07, 09:19 AM
"Lisa" > wrote in message
>
> The US is importing an increasing amount of food from abroad,
> especially from places with much lower safety standards, like Chile
> and Mexico. I think people ought to rethink this dangerous policy.
>
> Your life and your loved ones lives are at stake.

What is the alternative? Manufacturing sufficient food on the North American
continent for the North American public is probably impossible within a
realistic time frame and if it was possible, it would probably more than
triple the cost of what we pay now for food. Do you really think the general
public would sit still for that? The truth is that we're too greedy and
selfish of a society deny ourselves the luxuries with have.

Barnabas Collins
March 25th 07, 05:06 PM
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 00:09:15 -0600, Andy <[email protected]> wrote:
> This is happening on a different scale, the way it's spread is
>entirely different. It's not some lone nutcase on the retail side. It
>*has* to be factory or upstream. Not even a battalion of nutcases could
>fly from city to city and produce the distribution of cases.
And you know this how? You fly to 60 different cities, put it
in the warehouse level or in the truck level and you've
accomplished the same thing.

> If you've been surfing the web news this week you should see the
>patterns.
And here is a news flash for you: if you want to extort money
from a corporation it's very easy to fly to xxxxxxx cities, get
a bunch of friends to sabotoge procucts, etc.

The distibution chain is very long, from the factory to ulitmate
destination of your cats food dish there is alot of stops along the
way where the food can be tampered with.

Never underestimate the extent an extortionist will go to
extort money from a multi billion dollar corporation.

Oh and bear in mind there have been cases where a guy contaminates
a product at the retail level in a plot to kill his wife.

I want more evidence before I condemn Menu foods in this thing.

Barnabas Collins
March 25th 07, 05:11 PM
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 23:18:18 -0700, "William Graham"
> wrote:

>I wonder if we get the gluten from China, or just the wheat, and then we
>make the gluten here.....It strikes me that we should be sending wheat to
>china, and not getting wheat from China.....Doesn't the US make more wheat
>than like, everybody?
Could this be a case where they don't want US wheat?

Bear in mind there are people in countries who would
rather starve then eat food from the US....they're too
scared of the aditives that are put into the food.

Additives they are convinced are not safe.

Barnabas Collins
March 25th 07, 05:16 PM
>> One should never assume anything. Yes, as a matter of fact I am in
>retail.
>> I have to watch code dates, product condition, source of product etc. I
>> quarantee you if even one of my customers dropped dead after eating
>anything
>> from my jobsite, it wouldn't take two weeks for the word to get out.
Bear in mind a number of the kidny failures could have occurred as far
back as last December.

It's now March 25, 2007. That is a good example of how long it took
for the news to come out.

Barnabas Collins
March 25th 07, 05:19 PM
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 03:09:54 -0500, "Upscale" >
wrote:

> You
>might immediately start an investigation of some kind, but you as higher
>management would know that making a flat out statement about the dangers of
>a product can destroy an entire company very quickly.
Yeah like it destroyed Tylenol.

Some of these cats may have died back in December or earlier.
Yet it didn't come to light until his month.

What did Menu know and when did they know it?

Barnabas Collins
March 25th 07, 05:25 PM
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 03:12:48 -0500, "Upscale" >
wrote:

>
>"Barnabas Collins" > wrote in message
>> I'd point out the same thing happened to Tylenol and they survived.
>
>And it did usher in a new era of safety measures for the entire drug and
>food industry. It's highly likely this current pet food fiasco will do the
>same thing. There's just too much big business money involved for them not
>to.
>
It also ushered in a rash of product contamination cases, some even in
sealed containers.

Bear in mind there are products that have several seals
on the package and the bad guys have still been
able to contaminate them.

Bear in mind this moist food is already in sealed cans or sealed
pouches.

Snarf
March 25th 07, 05:56 PM
http://www.menufoods.com/recall/product_cat.html

Hey
March 25th 07, 06:42 PM
"Socialist Piece of **** Upscale" > wrote
in message the following Communist propaganda:
>
> What is the alternative? Manufacturing sufficient food on the North
> American
> continent for the North American public is probably impossible within a
> realistic time frame and if it was possible, it would probably more than
> triple the cost of what we pay now for food. Do you really think the
> general
> public would sit still for that? The truth is that we're too greedy and
> selfish of a society deny ourselves the luxuries with have.


If you hate your country that much, the simple truth is you
should pack up your Commie-loving ass and move it to
some third world country where you can sleep on a dirt
floor and **** in a hole in the ground.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

William Graham
March 25th 07, 08:45 PM
"Barnabas Collins" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 23:18:18 -0700, "William Graham"
> > wrote:
>
>>I wonder if we get the gluten from China, or just the wheat, and then we
>>make the gluten here.....It strikes me that we should be sending wheat to
>>china, and not getting wheat from China.....Doesn't the US make more wheat
>>than like, everybody?
> Could this be a case where they don't want US wheat?
>
> Bear in mind there are people in countries who would
> rather starve then eat food from the US....they're too
> scared of the aditives that are put into the food.
>
> Additives they are convinced are not safe.
>
That could be, but we are talking about a commercial product here....And one
consumed by animals at that. I doubt if petty anti-American sentiments would
interfere in anyone's prospects of making money......

William Graham
March 25th 07, 08:55 PM
"Barnabas Collins" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 03:12:48 -0500, "Upscale" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Barnabas Collins" > wrote in message
>>> I'd point out the same thing happened to Tylenol and they survived.
>>
>>And it did usher in a new era of safety measures for the entire drug and
>>food industry. It's highly likely this current pet food fiasco will do the
>>same thing. There's just too much big business money involved for them not
>>to.
>>
> It also ushered in a rash of product contamination cases, some even in
> sealed containers.
>
> Bear in mind there are products that have several seals
> on the package and the bad guys have still been
> able to contaminate them.
>
> Bear in mind this moist food is already in sealed cans or sealed
> pouches.

Yes, and this is precisely why the contamination didn't happen anywhere in
the distribution system, or at the retail level. It had to take place either
in the factory, or before that, at the ingredient level. I think they
already know that it was in the wheat gluten that they get from China....

William Graham
March 25th 07, 08:58 PM
"Upscale" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Barnabas Collins" > wrote in message
>>
>> (I'm fortunate that all my cats only do dry food. My oldest has
>> never tolerated moist food.)
>
> Yes, I'm lucky in that regard too. I feed my cat the Iams multicat dry cat
> chow and that's all she will eat. Of course, that doesn't prevent her from
> inspecting every bit of food that I eat, but I can live with that. :)
>
>
I wonder why they don't put "wheat gluten" in dry cat food? Or, if they do,
why doesn't it come from China too? Or, if it does, why isn't it
contaminated too? Or, if it is, why doesn't it make cats sick too? Or, if it
does, why don't they know it too? Or, if they do, why haven't they told us
about it?

William Graham
March 25th 07, 09:04 PM
"Upscale" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Lisa" > wrote in message
>>
>> The US is importing an increasing amount of food from abroad,
>> especially from places with much lower safety standards, like Chile
>> and Mexico. I think people ought to rethink this dangerous policy.
>>
>> Your life and your loved ones lives are at stake.
>
> What is the alternative? Manufacturing sufficient food on the North
> American
> continent for the North American public is probably impossible within a
> realistic time frame and if it was possible, it would probably more than
> triple the cost of what we pay now for food. Do you really think the
> general
> public would sit still for that? The truth is that we're too greedy and
> selfish of a society deny ourselves the luxuries with have.
>
You may be speaking about the luxury to kill ourselves......I like foreign
food as much as the next person....I eat cheese from France and Denmark,
olive oil from Italy, caviar imported from Iran, and a host of other foreign
stuff. But I also pay my government a hell of a lot in taxes to police all
that stuff and make sure it doesn't contain rat poison. Obviously, my
government carries out this duty like they do everything else.....NOT!!

22brix
March 25th 07, 09:33 PM
"William Graham" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Upscale" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Barnabas Collins" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> (I'm fortunate that all my cats only do dry food. My oldest has
>>> never tolerated moist food.)
>>
>> Yes, I'm lucky in that regard too. I feed my cat the Iams multicat dry
>> cat
>> chow and that's all she will eat. Of course, that doesn't prevent her
>> from
>> inspecting every bit of food that I eat, but I can live with that. :)
>>
>>
> I wonder why they don't put "wheat gluten" in dry cat food? Or, if they
> do, why doesn't it come from China too? Or, if it does, why isn't it
> contaminated too? Or, if it is, why doesn't it make cats sick too? Or, if
> it does, why don't they know it too? Or, if they do, why haven't they told
> us about it?
>
I believe Menu Foods only makes wet food. I have several different types of
pet food in the house--dry and canned/pouched, none of them on the recall
list. I've read a lot of labels in the past several days and in looking at
what I have, none of the canned products have wheat gluten (or any wheat
product, for that matter). Most of the dry food I have does contain wheat
gluten--it's hard to know what to feed them!

William Graham
March 25th 07, 10:03 PM
"22brix" > wrote in message
...
>
> "William Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Upscale" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Barnabas Collins" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> (I'm fortunate that all my cats only do dry food. My oldest has
>>>> never tolerated moist food.)
>>>
>>> Yes, I'm lucky in that regard too. I feed my cat the Iams multicat dry
>>> cat
>>> chow and that's all she will eat. Of course, that doesn't prevent her
>>> from
>>> inspecting every bit of food that I eat, but I can live with that. :)
>>>
>>>
>> I wonder why they don't put "wheat gluten" in dry cat food? Or, if they
>> do, why doesn't it come from China too? Or, if it does, why isn't it
>> contaminated too? Or, if it is, why doesn't it make cats sick too? Or, if
>> it does, why don't they know it too? Or, if they do, why haven't they
>> told us about it?
>>
> I believe Menu Foods only makes wet food. I have several different types
> of pet food in the house--dry and canned/pouched, none of them on the
> recall list. I've read a lot of labels in the past several days and in
> looking at what I have, none of the canned products have wheat gluten (or
> any wheat product, for that matter). Most of the dry food I have does
> contain wheat gluten--it's hard to know what to feed them!
>
>
Yes. - I have been feeding them roasted whole body chickens....I can get
them on sale for 69 cents a pound, and I take them home and cook them, and
then cut them up for the cats. I also feed them canned people tuna fish. The
problem is, they are outside cats, and I haven't any control over what the
neighbors feed them....So, I am watching them closely for signs that they
are sick......

Hey
March 25th 07, 10:05 PM
"Barnabas Collins" > wrote in message:
> Bear in mind there are people in countries who would
> rather starve then eat food from the US....they're too
> scared of the aditives that are put into the food.
> Additives they are convinced are not safe.



Bear in mind I could give a rat's ass what some foreign
asshole thinks of USA food. Let them eat the contaminated
**** that is grown in their own country.

William Graham
March 25th 07, 10:11 PM
"Hey" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Barnabas Collins" > wrote in message:
>> Bear in mind there are people in countries who would
>> rather starve then eat food from the US....they're too
>> scared of the aditives that are put into the food.
>> Additives they are convinced are not safe.
>
>
>
> Bear in mind I could give a rat's ass what some foreign
> asshole thinks of USA food. Let them eat the contaminated
> **** that is grown in their own country.
>
Yeah, and they've got a hell of a nerve complaining. The wheat, corn,
alfalfa, and soya beans we grow in our Midwest has been feeding all the cows
and people in this world for like a hundred years now.....If they didn't
like it, they would have starved to death a long time ago. I wish they
had....The old saying, "No good deed goes unpunished" is just as true today
as it was 100 years ago.......

William Graham
March 25th 07, 10:13 PM
"William Graham" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Hey" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Barnabas Collins" > wrote in message:
>>> Bear in mind there are people in countries who would
>>> rather starve then eat food from the US....they're too
>>> scared of the aditives that are put into the food.
>>> Additives they are convinced are not safe.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bear in mind I could give a rat's ass what some foreign
>> asshole thinks of USA food. Let them eat the contaminated
>> **** that is grown in their own country.
>>
> Yeah, and they've got a hell of a nerve complaining. The wheat, corn,
> alfalfa, and soya beans we grow in our Midwest has been feeding all the
> cows and people in this world for like a hundred years now.....If they
> didn't like it, they would have starved to death a long time ago. I wish
> they had....The old saying, "No good deed goes unpunished" is just as true
> today as it was 100 years ago.......
>
The least they should have to do is say a prayer for President Bush before
every meal....:^)

Nicolaas Hawkins
March 26th 07, 01:35 AM
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:58:34 -0700, William Graham >
wrote in >:

> "Upscale" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Barnabas Collins" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> (I'm fortunate that all my cats only do dry food. My oldest has
>>> never tolerated moist food.)
>>
>> Yes, I'm lucky in that regard too. I feed my cat the Iams multicat dry cat
>> chow and that's all she will eat. Of course, that doesn't prevent her from
>> inspecting every bit of food that I eat, but I can live with that. :)
>>
>>
> I wonder why they don't put "wheat gluten" in dry cat food? Or, if they do,
> why doesn't it come from China too? Or, if it does, why isn't it
> contaminated too? Or, if it is, why doesn't it make cats sick too? Or, if it
> does, why don't they know it too? Or, if they do, why haven't they told us
> about it?

Ever wondered why wondering doesn't cost money? You'd be in the
poor-house if it did.

William Graham
March 26th 07, 01:52 AM
"Nicolaas Hawkins" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:58:34 -0700, William Graham >
> wrote in >:
>
>> "Upscale" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Barnabas Collins" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> (I'm fortunate that all my cats only do dry food. My oldest has
>>>> never tolerated moist food.)
>>>
>>> Yes, I'm lucky in that regard too. I feed my cat the Iams multicat dry
>>> cat
>>> chow and that's all she will eat. Of course, that doesn't prevent her
>>> from
>>> inspecting every bit of food that I eat, but I can live with that. :)
>>>
>>>
>> I wonder why they don't put "wheat gluten" in dry cat food? Or, if they
>> do,
>> why doesn't it come from China too? Or, if it does, why isn't it
>> contaminated too? Or, if it is, why doesn't it make cats sick too? Or, if
>> it
>> does, why don't they know it too? Or, if they do, why haven't they told
>> us
>> about it?
>
> Ever wondered why wondering doesn't cost money? You'd be in the
> poor-house if it did.

I really only wonder one thing....Why am I the only one who asks these
questions?....Is the rest of the world really that stupid?

Sjouke Burry
March 26th 07, 02:15 AM
William Graham wrote:
> "Nicolaas Hawkins" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:58:34 -0700, William Graham >
>> wrote in >:
>>
>>> "Upscale" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Barnabas Collins" > wrote in message
>>>>> (I'm fortunate that all my cats only do dry food. My oldest has
>>>>> never tolerated moist food.)
>>>> Yes, I'm lucky in that regard too. I feed my cat the Iams multicat dry
>>>> cat
>>>> chow and that's all she will eat. Of course, that doesn't prevent her
>>>> from
>>>> inspecting every bit of food that I eat, but I can live with that. :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I wonder why they don't put "wheat gluten" in dry cat food? Or, if they
>>> do,
>>> why doesn't it come from China too? Or, if it does, why isn't it
>>> contaminated too? Or, if it is, why doesn't it make cats sick too? Or, if
>>> it
>>> does, why don't they know it too? Or, if they do, why haven't they told
>>> us
>>> about it?
>> Ever wondered why wondering doesn't cost money? You'd be in the
>> poor-house if it did.
>
> I really only wonder one thing....Why am I the only one who asks these
> questions?....Is the rest of the world really that stupid?
>
>
Yep!!!!

Barnabas Collins
March 26th 07, 05:37 AM
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:55:10 -0700, "William Graham"
> wrote:
>> Bear in mind this moist food is already in sealed cans or sealed
>> pouches.
>
>Yes, and this is precisely why the contamination didn't happen anywhere in
>the distribution system, or at the retail level. It had to take place either
>in the factory, or before that, at the ingredient level. I think they
>already know that it was in the wheat gluten that they get from China....
>
Bear in mind a number of the product contamination cases occurred with
stuff on the shelves at the store or after the product left the
factory. There are even cases where they put in the contamination
after even with the seals.

William Graham
March 26th 07, 06:19 AM
"Barnabas Collins" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:55:10 -0700, "William Graham"
> > wrote:
>>> Bear in mind this moist food is already in sealed cans or sealed
>>> pouches.
>>
>>Yes, and this is precisely why the contamination didn't happen anywhere in
>>the distribution system, or at the retail level. It had to take place
>>either
>>in the factory, or before that, at the ingredient level. I think they
>>already know that it was in the wheat gluten that they get from China....
>>
> Bear in mind a number of the product contamination cases occurred with
> stuff on the shelves at the store or after the product left the
> factory. There are even cases where they put in the contamination
> after even with the seals.
>
Yes, but those were isolated cases, done on a much smaller scale. - In one
case, as I remember, some guy poisoned his wife's pills, and put another
bottle or two of poisoned pills on the drugstore shelf in order to cover up
his crime. (so it would look like his wife was just unlucky in her purchase,
rather than unlucky in her choice of husbands....:^)
It would be much harder to poison hundreds of sealed cans of cat food
after they had already hit the shelves......It would be much easier to just
go out shooting cats at random. (some people do that, too)

buglady
March 26th 07, 03:39 PM
"William Graham" > wrote in message
. ..
..I eat cheese from France and Denmark,
> olive oil from Italy,

.........might be from CA olives shipped to Italy. Haven't checked this out,
but it seems more and more raw materials are sent out and come back
finished.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

Cory
March 26th 07, 11:46 PM
On Mar 23, 10:14 am, (krazy) wrote:
> According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the
> recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they would
> have more on the evening news.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/us/20petfood.html?_r=1&ref=us&oref=slogin

or http://tinyurl.com/288lgd

>From the article...

"The company, Menu Foods of Streetsville, Ontario, started testing its
product on 40 to 50 animals on Feb. 27, one week after it began
hearing from owners who said the food had made their pets ill, said
Stephen F. Sundlof, director of the agency's Center for Veterinary
Medicine."


Uh... 'scuse me... but why in the frick would a company START OR
CONTINUE testing its tainted product on 40-50 animals AFTER it got
wind that there was a problem with the food???

Do tests ON THE FOOD in the frickin' laboratory!!! DON'T USE LIVE
CATS AND DOGS AS GUINEA PIGS!!!

Cheese'nRice...

--- Cory

Kitty
March 27th 07, 01:05 AM
"Cory" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Mar 23, 10:14 am, (krazy) wrote:
>> According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the
>> recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they
>> would
>> have more on the evening news.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/us/20petfood.html?_r=1&ref=us&oref=slogin
>
> or http://tinyurl.com/288lgd
>
>>From the article...
>
> "The company, Menu Foods of Streetsville, Ontario, started testing its
> product on 40 to 50 animals on Feb. 27, one week after it began
> hearing from owners who said the food had made their pets ill, said
> Stephen F. Sundlof, director of the agency's Center for Veterinary
> Medicine."
>
>
> Uh... 'scuse me... but why in the frick would a company START OR
> CONTINUE testing its tainted product on 40-50 animals AFTER it got
> wind that there was a problem with the food???
>
> Do tests ON THE FOOD in the frickin' laboratory!!! DON'T USE LIVE
> CATS AND DOGS AS GUINEA PIGS!!!
>
> Cheese'nRice...
>
> --- Cory
>


According to FDA & GMP rules, tests are done on all Class C raw materials
incoming. They either "fudged" the testing or the test itself is inadequate
to detect problems.That scares the hell out of me. I think this discussion
needs to progress to helping each other to come up with food recipes to make
for our pets ourselves!

kitty

Andy
March 27th 07, 02:06 AM
William Graham wrote:
> "Barnabas Collins" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:55:10 -0700, "William Graham"
>> > wrote:
>>>> Bear in mind this moist food is already in sealed cans or sealed
>>>> pouches.
>>> Yes, and this is precisely why the contamination didn't happen anywhere in
>>> the distribution system, or at the retail level. It had to take place
>>> either
>>> in the factory, or before that, at the ingredient level. I think they
>>> already know that it was in the wheat gluten that they get from China....
>>>
>> Bear in mind a number of the product contamination cases occurred with
>> stuff on the shelves at the store or after the product left the
>> factory. There are even cases where they put in the contamination
>> after even with the seals.
>>
> Yes, but those were isolated cases, done on a much smaller scale. - In one
> case, as I remember, some guy poisoned his wife's pills, and put another
> bottle or two of poisoned pills on the drugstore shelf in order to cover up
> his crime. (so it would look like his wife was just unlucky in her purchase,
> rather than unlucky in her choice of husbands....:^)
> It would be much harder to poison hundreds of sealed cans of cat food
> after they had already hit the shelves......It would be much easier to just
> go out shooting cats at random. (some people do that, too)
>
>


Yup.

If it's one can in a thousand of the recalled products, that's 60,000
cans. If it's one can in a hundred that 600,000 cans. If it's two out of
three cans (as the NY team found) it's forty MILLION cans... all
estimates spread all over at least two countries...

Don't they teach the salesman math problem in HS anymore? *g*

(William, I'm glad someone else here understands what I was talking
about. )

--> Mr. Collins; please understand that I am not trolling, nor am I
trying to fix blame on anyone, least of all Menu Foods. I'm merely
posting information and a few guesses as to what's going on. Lighten up.
You sound like an industry troll.


A

--
"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are
fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives
up but with life itself."
- Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

"The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its
thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools," Thucydides.

Andy
March 27th 07, 02:28 AM
Kitty wrote:
> "Cory" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> On Mar 23, 10:14 am, (krazy) wrote:
>>> According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the
>>> recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they
>>> would
>>> have more on the evening news.
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/us/20petfood.html?_r=1&ref=us&oref=slogin
>>
>> or http://tinyurl.com/288lgd
>>
>> >From the article...
>>
>> "The company, Menu Foods of Streetsville, Ontario, started testing its
>> product on 40 to 50 animals on Feb. 27, one week after it began
>> hearing from owners who said the food had made their pets ill, said
>> Stephen F. Sundlof, director of the agency's Center for Veterinary
>> Medicine."
>>
>>
>> Uh... 'scuse me... but why in the frick would a company START OR
>> CONTINUE testing its tainted product on 40-50 animals AFTER it got
>> wind that there was a problem with the food???
>>
>> Do tests ON THE FOOD in the frickin' laboratory!!! DON'T USE LIVE
>> CATS AND DOGS AS GUINEA PIGS!!!
>>
>> Cheese'nRice...
>>
>> --- Cory
>>
>
>
> According to FDA & GMP rules, tests are done on all Class C raw materials
> incoming. They either "fudged" the testing or the test itself is inadequate
> to detect problems.That scares the hell out of me. I think this discussion
> needs to progress to helping each other to come up with food recipes to make
> for our pets ourselves!
>
> kitty
>
>

google "human grade pet food recipes" or "organic pet food recipes"
and read on, read on. There's a mountain of info out there. :)

Agreed about the discussion. But it's usenet, you know ;(

If you really want to get into some serious discussion, I'd recommend
vetcetera or petconnection.

The fact that they test for toxicity on living animals bothers me,
too; I mean, we don't do that with humans, now, do we? ;) but until
there are laws in place... and we shouldn't need more of those. :\


A

--
"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are
fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives
up but with life itself."
- Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

"The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its
thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools," Thucydides.

Cory
March 27th 07, 05:39 AM
On Mar 26, 6:05 pm, "Kitty" > wrote:
> "Cory" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 23, 10:14 am, (krazy) wrote:
> >> According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the
> >> recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they
> >> would
> >> have more on the evening news.
>
> >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/us/20petfood.html?_r=1&ref=us&oref=...
>
> > orhttp://tinyurl.com/288lgd
>
> >>From the article...
>
> > "The company, Menu Foods of Streetsville, Ontario, started testing its
> > product on 40 to 50 animals on Feb. 27, one week after it began
> > hearing from owners who said the food had made their pets ill, said
> > Stephen F. Sundlof, director of the agency's Center for Veterinary
> > Medicine."
>
> > Uh... 'scuse me... but why in the frick would a company START OR
> > CONTINUE testing its tainted product on 40-50 animals AFTER it got
> > wind that there was a problem with the food???
>
> > Do tests ON THE FOOD in the frickin' laboratory!!! DON'T USE LIVE
> > CATS AND DOGS AS GUINEA PIGS!!!
>
> > Cheese'nRice...
>
> > --- Cory
>
> According to FDA & GMP rules, tests are done on all Class C raw materials
> incoming. They either "fudged" the testing or the test itself is inadequate
> to detect problems.That scares the hell out of me. I think this discussion
> needs to progress to helping each other to come up with food recipes to make
> for our pets ourselves!
>
> kitty

I don't know about you, but I have a feeling that the FDA and GMP
rules are going to be tweaked a little bit before this is all over.

However... yes, maybe it is time for pet lovers to start making their
own pet food.

--- Cory

Barnabas Collins
March 27th 07, 08:46 PM
On 26 Mar 2007 15:46:46 -0700, "Cory" > wrote:
>Uh... 'scuse me... but why in the frick would a company START OR
>CONTINUE testing its tainted product on 40-50 animals AFTER it got
>wind that there was a problem with the food???
Because testing it in the laboratory could take many years to
do, like looking for a needle in a haystack.

If you started testing it today in a lab maybe you'd find the
offending agent in 40+ years.

Take a look at the cat food can in your house. 60+ ingredients
times millions of cans means you're talking alot of years to find
the offending agent.

>Do tests ON THE FOOD in the frickin' laboratory!!! DON'T USE LIVE
>CATS AND DOGS AS GUINEA PIGS!!!
Maybe you should get a job in the pet food field since you seem to
think you can find the offending cause in a matter of minutes.

Here in the real world you're talking alot of years.

It's pure **** luck that NY state found it was Rat Poison.
99 times out of a hundred it would take many years longer
to find the culprit.

Go to the store look at all the brands of food, look at the
ingredients in each can, multiply it by 100 cans per store
by 500 stores in a given state by 50 states plus 189
countries around the world and you're talking many long
years and very long odds at finding the culprit.

Barnabas Collins
March 27th 07, 08:49 PM
On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 20:05:08 -0400, "Kitty" >
wrote:
>According to FDA & GMP rules, tests are done on all Class C raw materials
>incoming. They either "fudged" the testing or the test itself is inadequate
>to detect problems.That scares the hell out of me. I think this discussion
>needs to progress to helping each other to come up with food recipes to make
>for our pets ourselves!
>
>kitty
>
Bear in mind Menu foods is in Canada, operating under Canadian law.
They bought ingredients from a company in China opertating under
Chinese law.

Barnabas Collins
March 27th 07, 08:53 PM
On 26 Mar 2007 21:39:38 -0700, "Cory" > wrote:
>However... yes, maybe it is time for pet lovers to start making their
>own pet food.
Bear in mind the condition of human food. Look at things like
the amount of human food with E. Coli, the amount of **** and other
stuff that can be legally in our food supply. And before you go
on about organic food i'd point out no matter good the organic food
is it's contaminated by the crap in the air.

Hey
March 27th 07, 10:14 PM
"Barnabas Collins" > wrote in message
...
> Bear in mind the condition of human food. Look at things like
> the amount of human food with E. Coli, the amount of **** and other
> stuff that can be legally in our food supply. And before you go
> on about organic food i'd point out no matter good the organic food
> is it's contaminated by the crap in the air.


Speaking of '****,' the Germans have been fertilizing their
farming fields with human ****, since anyone can recall
and then some. Didn't seem to stop them from almost taking
over the world in the 1940s. "Honey Wagons" are a common
sight on the roads in German farm country. The U.S. military
used to warn American military personnel (and probably still
do) stationed in German not to eat local grown produce. Virtually
all GIs ignored that warning, preferring to eat fresh locally grown
produce, and I never knew of a single person getting sick.

William Graham
March 29th 07, 01:49 AM
"buglady" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> "William Graham" > wrote in message
> . ..
> .I eat cheese from France and Denmark,
>> olive oil from Italy,
>
> ........might be from CA olives shipped to Italy. Haven't checked this
> out,
> but it seems more and more raw materials are sent out and come back
> finished.
>
> buglady
> take out the dog before replying
>
>
Yes, and California presses are just as good as Italian presses.....I'm sure
French Brie is better cheese than Petaluma brie, but after shipping it all
the way from France, it's all dried out, so the local brie is better after
all.....(and a lot cheaper, too)

Upscale
March 29th 07, 05:54 AM
"William Graham" > wrote in message
> >
> Yes, and California presses are just as good as Italian presses.....I'm
sure
> French Brie is better cheese than Petaluma brie, but after shipping it all
> the way from France, it's all dried out, so the local brie is better after
> all.....(and a lot cheaper, too)

You're just full of all sorts of misinformation aren't you? Most cheeses are
aged before consumption so that destroys your comment about drying out
during the shipping process. Cheaper? Probably, but taste is a matter of
perspective, something that you appear to know nothing about.

Cheese, cats, whatever, you *do* rant and whatever you talk about, your mind
is made up before you open your mouth. Quite the slanted little world you
live in there Graham.

Cory
March 30th 07, 09:29 PM
On Mar 23, 10:14 am, (krazy) wrote:
> According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the
> recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they would
> have more on the evening news.

NOW the media reports that it WASN'T rat poison that was found in the
contaminated food. It was a chemical used to make plastics.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17870750/

I seriously do not know WHAT to think anymore. Are they trying to
gaslight us or WTH??

--- Cory

The Porter Cats
March 30th 07, 10:46 PM
I also am irritated by the fact that PETA today is complaining about
chromium in Iams food, and their press release (a) seems to try to make that
seem like part of the Menu recall and (b) seems to try to make it look like
Iam knowingly contaminated food (with rat poison and with chromium). The FDA
determined that the Iams diet foods had too much chromium, and I don't
appreciate the fact that PETA is further confusing the issue at a time when
things are very confusing.

I don't know who I am the most @#$%& irritated with at this point.

Julie

"Cory" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Mar 23, 10:14 am, (krazy) wrote:
>> According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the
>> recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they
>> would
>> have more on the evening news.
>
> NOW the media reports that it WASN'T rat poison that was found in the
> contaminated food. It was a chemical used to make plastics.
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17870750/
>
> I seriously do not know WHAT to think anymore. Are they trying to
> gaslight us or WTH??
>
> --- Cory
>

William Graham
March 31st 07, 12:22 AM
"Upscale" > wrote in message
...
>
> "William Graham" > wrote in message
>> >
>> Yes, and California presses are just as good as Italian presses.....I'm
> sure
>> French Brie is better cheese than Petaluma brie, but after shipping it
>> all
>> the way from France, it's all dried out, so the local brie is better
>> after
>> all.....(and a lot cheaper, too)
>
> You're just full of all sorts of misinformation aren't you? Most cheeses
> are
> aged before consumption so that destroys your comment about drying out
> during the shipping process. Cheaper? Probably, but taste is a matter of
> perspective, something that you appear to know nothing about.
>
> Cheese, cats, whatever, you *do* rant and whatever you talk about, your
> mind
> is made up before you open your mouth. Quite the slanted little world you
> live in there Graham.
>
>
Sorry, but that doesn't apply to brie, which is best while it's soft and
moist....I am 71, and have been eating fine cheeses all of my life, and I
have been to Europe and had fresh French brie, as well as the California
brie.....It doesn't improve with age, regardless of where it's from. -
Neither does Gorgonzola, which is my favorite cheese.....Best fresh and
moist from the factory, (where it's aged under the right conditions.)

William Graham
March 31st 07, 12:30 AM
"Upscale" > wrote in message
...
>
Cheese, cats, whatever, you *do* rant and whatever you talk about, your mind
> is made up before you open your mouth. Quite the slanted little world you
> live in there Graham.
>
>
And who the hell are you, "Upscale?" - Your creditability is shot before you
get off the ground, because you post under an assumed pseudonym, and e-mail
address.....Usenet is full of idiots like you who hide their true identities
and then bitch about others who are open and true about what they know and
how they know it....I am: William E. Graham, of 237 Turnage Street, NW,
Salem, Oregon, and I am 71 years old, a graduate in mathematics of the
University of Santa Clara in California, and I worked as an Engineer for 30
years for Stanford University. Everything I say on usenet (or anywhere
else) is something I have learned from education and/or experience. Whenever
I am unsure of something, I preface it with, "Well, I don't know for sure,
but...."

William Graham
March 31st 07, 12:35 AM
"Cory" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Mar 23, 10:14 am, (krazy) wrote:
>> According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the
>> recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they
>> would
>> have more on the evening news.
>
> NOW the media reports that it WASN'T rat poison that was found in the
> contaminated food. It was a chemical used to make plastics.
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17870750/
>
> I seriously do not know WHAT to think anymore. Are they trying to
> gaslight us or WTH??
>
> --- Cory
>
Until they get all sorted out, the best thing you can do is to feed your
cats human food....I recommend chopped, roasted whole chickens....You can
find them on sale for about 69 cents a pound, so that makes them as cheap as
cat food, and you can be pretty sure they aren't contaminated with
poison.....Let's put it this way, you can eat some of it yourself, so if it
doesn't make you sick, it won't make your cats sick. And, if there is some
supplement that your cat needs, (as was suggested to me by someone else on
this list) then buy that substance from your local vet and add it to the
food. (but make sure it doesn't come from M.F. or from China.)

Upscale
March 31st 07, 02:48 AM
"William Graham" > wrote in message
> And who the hell are you, "Upscale?" - Your creditability is shot before
you
> get off the ground, because you post under an assumed pseudonym, and
e-mail
> address.....Usenet is full of idiots like you who hide their true
identities

Yes, you did assume didn't you? I haven't hidden a damned thing. If you were
half as intelligent as you portray yourself to be, you'd have done a simple
search on my email address. You'd have easily been able to verify that my
email address is a full true working one, (the only one I have) as well as
what my name is, not that it would make any difference in what I've said to
you.

> University of Santa Clara in California, and I worked as an Engineer for
30
> years for Stanford University. Everything I say on usenet (or anywhere
> else) is something I have learned from education and/or experience.

Considering how you've laid out your credentials, can we also assume you
forgot to mention your doctorate in veterinary practice and a Cordon Bleu
education in the cooking arts, specializing in cheeses?

To put this thread on topic, you've spent 90% of your time in this newgroup
ranting about the contaminated pet food, what should have been done and
summarily declared judgement on how Menu Food's management should have
executed. All of it without a shred of verifiable fact to back yourself up.
The truth is still emerging and has yet to be fully discerned, yet you
bluster on like what you what you have to say is unalterable fact.

If that's not you ranting, then I don't know what is.

Cory
March 31st 07, 07:50 AM
On Mar 30, 10:09 pm, John Ross Mc Master >
wrote:
<snip...>
> Hoomin note: You set your followup to alt.cats so it got crossposted
> anyways.

No offense intended to Fred at all, but it needs to be cross-posted.
The way I see it, we're all cat-lovers who are in this thing
together. We need to be able to put aside the petty bickering about
meowchat (you know who you are) for a while so that we can ALL get
the best, most recent information that is out there ASAP, for the sake
of our furkids!

JM2CW...

And by the way... "Hill's Pet Nutrition recalled its Prescription Diet
m/d Feline dry cat food." <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17870750/>

--- Cory

William Graham
March 31st 07, 08:02 AM
"Upscale" > wrote in message
...
>
> "William Graham" > wrote in message
>> And who the hell are you, "Upscale?" - Your creditability is shot before
> you
>> get off the ground, because you post under an assumed pseudonym, and
> e-mail
>> address.....Usenet is full of idiots like you who hide their true
> identities
>
> Yes, you did assume didn't you? I haven't hidden a damned thing. If you
> were
> half as intelligent as you portray yourself to be, you'd have done a
> simple
> search on my email address. You'd have easily been able to verify that my
> email address is a full true working one,

.....But you're still an illogical idiot.......


(the only one I have) as well as
> what my name is, not that it would make any difference in what I've said
> to
> you.
>
>> University of Santa Clara in California, and I worked as an Engineer for
> 30
>> years for Stanford University. Everything I say on usenet (or anywhere
>> else) is something I have learned from education and/or experience.
>
> Considering how you've laid out your credentials, can we also assume you
> forgot to mention your doctorate in veterinary practice and a Cordon Bleu
> education in the cooking arts, specializing in cheeses?

Nope....I've just been eating them for 50 years or more.....

>
> To put this thread on topic, you've spent 90% of your time in this
> newgroup
> ranting about the contaminated pet food,

More like 10%......I've been in the newsgroup only about 3 months.

what should have been done and
> summarily declared judgement on how Menu Food's management should have
> executed. All of it without a shred of verifiable fact to back yourself
> up.

Well, a bunch of dead cats is evidence of something, isn't it?



> The truth is still emerging and has yet to be fully discerned, yet you
> bluster on like what you what you have to say is unalterable fact.

I've made no claims of "unalteraqble fact", as you could easily verify had
you read my posts......


>
> If that's not you ranting, then I don't know what is.
>
>
The operable phrase here is, "I don't know".

William Graham
March 31st 07, 09:15 AM
"Upscale" > wrote in message
news:1f1c8$460e151c$cef88bc5>

Yes, by now everybody has realized fully that you don't know.
>
>
Speak for yourself, "Upscale". You are not at all qualified to speak for
"everybody"........

Upscale
March 31st 07, 10:00 AM
"William Graham" > wrote in message
>
> Well, a bunch of dead cats is evidence of something, isn't it?
> The operable phrase here is, "I don't know".

Yes, by now everybody has realized fully that you don't know.

Cory
March 31st 07, 01:35 PM
On Mar 31, 2:15 am, "William Graham" > wrote:
> "Upscale" > wrote in message
>
> news:1f1c8$460e151c$cef88bc5>
>
> Yes, by now everybody has realized fully that you don't know.
>
> Speak for yourself, "Upscale". You are not at all qualified to speak for
> "everybody"........

You two want to take this juvenile garbage to somewhere more
appropriate... say... your nearest sandbox, please??

--- Cory

Tanada
March 31st 07, 02:06 PM
"Cory" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> You two want to take this juvenile garbage to somewhere more
> appropriate... say... your nearest sandbox, please??
>

Thank you Cory. I'm ready to add these two to a growing killfile.

Pam S. who'd like to read about cats

Ernie
March 31st 07, 02:46 PM
"Cory" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> You two want to take this juvenile garbage to somewhere more
> appropriate... say... your nearest sandbox, please??



Hit the road Cory-the-Asswipe. Disputes are
part & parcel of Usenet. If you don't like what you see,
don't let the door hit you in the ass.

Ernie
March 31st 07, 02:51 PM
"Tanada" > wrote in message
rthlink.net...
>
> Thank you Cory. I'm ready to add these two to a growing killfile.
>
> Pam S. who'd like to read about cats



Same for you, Tanada-the-Fruit. Instead of whining and
****ing your pants, if you don't like what you see, then
do what you said and shut the **** up! Disagreements are,
and always have been, part of the Usenet culture.

Don't let the door hit your ass either on the way out!

Nan
March 31st 07, 05:16 PM
On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 09:51:11 -0400, "Ernie" >
wrote:

>
>"Tanada" > wrote in message
rthlink.net...
>>
>> Thank you Cory. I'm ready to add these two to a growing killfile.
>>
>> Pam S. who'd like to read about cats
>
>
>
>Same for you, Tanada-the-Fruit. Instead of whining and
>****ing your pants, if you don't like what you see, then
>do what you said and shut the **** up! Disagreements are,
>and always have been, part of the Usenet culture.
>
>Don't let the door hit your ass either on the way out!
>
>
>
>
PLONK
--
Hugs and Purrs,

Nan and the Furkids

Ernie[_2_]
March 31st 07, 06:55 PM
**** YOU TOO


"Nan" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 09:51:11 -0400, "Ernie" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Tanada" > wrote in message
rthlink.net...
>>>
>>> Thank you Cory. I'm ready to add these two to a growing killfile.
>>>
>>> Pam S. who'd like to read about cats
>>
>>
>>
>>Same for you, Tanada-the-Fruit. Instead of whining and
>>****ing your pants, if you don't like what you see, then
>>do what you said and shut the **** up! Disagreements are,
>>and always have been, part of the Usenet culture.
>>
>>Don't let the door hit your ass either on the way out!
>>
>>
>>
>>
> PLONK
> --
> Hugs and Purrs,
>
> Nan and the Furkids

William Graham
March 31st 07, 09:24 PM
"Cory" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Mar 31, 2:15 am, "William Graham" > wrote:
>> "Upscale" > wrote in message
>>
>> news:1f1c8$460e151c$cef88bc5>
>>
>> Yes, by now everybody has realized fully that you don't know.
>>
>> Speak for yourself, "Upscale". You are not at all qualified to speak for
>> "everybody"........
>
> You two want to take this juvenile garbage to somewhere more
> appropriate... say... your nearest sandbox, please??
>
> --- Cory
>
Tell it to "upscale" here is the first insulting message he sent me.....

Cheese, cats, whatever, you *do* rant and whatever you talk about, your
> mind
> is made up before you open your mouth. Quite the slanted little world you
> live in there Graham.
>

This, simply because I commented that domestic brie was better than the
French, just because it's fresher.......It seems that some people can't
express their disagreement without insulting someone else.........

William Graham
March 31st 07, 09:26 PM
"Tanada" > wrote in message
rthlink.net...
>
> "Cory" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>>
>> You two want to take this juvenile garbage to somewhere more
>> appropriate... say... your nearest sandbox, please??
>>
>
> Thank you Cory. I'm ready to add these two to a growing killfile.
>
> Pam S. who'd like to read about cats
>
Ditto my message to Cory above......

Fred
April 1st 07, 12:33 AM
Cory wrote:

> On Mar 30, 10:09 pm, John Ross Mc Master >
> wrote:
> <snip...>
>> Hoomin note: You set your followup to alt.cats so it got crossposted
>> anyways.
>
> No offense intended to Fred at all, but it needs to be cross-posted.
> The way I see it, we're all cat-lovers who are in this thing
> together. We need to be able to put aside the petty bickering about
> meowchat (you know who you are) for a while so that we can ALL get
> the best, most recent information that is out there ASAP, for the sake
> of our furkids!
>
> JM2CW...
>
> And by the way... "Hill's Pet Nutrition recalled its Prescription Diet
> m/d Feline dry cat food." <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17870750/>
>
It's good they're being thorough. I hope that's all it is. Unca Cory, I
take your point about the newsgroups. I heard a report yesterday where
they are now saying that the food testing on fifty kitties began before the
first reports of poisoning. Interesting how the story changes as time
passes.
I just feel so sad for those who died and all those who loved them. I feel
so sad for all the test kitties who don't have anyone to love them.
Purrrayers fur them all.

--
Regards, Fred

Fred
April 1st 07, 12:38 AM
Ernie wrote:

>
> "Cory" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>>
>> You two want to take this juvenile garbage to somewhere more
>> appropriate... say... your nearest sandbox, please??
>
>
>
> Hit the road Cory-the-Asswipe. Disputes are
> part & parcel of Usenet. If you don't like what you see,
> don't let the door hit you in the ass.

Well not all of usenet and did you ever hear of something called
Netiquette. Flame wars are a waste of time and energy and people don't
resect you for engaging in them.

--
Peace, Fred

Ernie[_2_]
April 1st 07, 01:47 AM
"Fred" > wrote in message
...
> Ernie wrote:
>
>>
>> "Cory" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>>
>>> You two want to take this juvenile garbage to somewhere more
>>> appropriate... say... your nearest sandbox, please??
>>
>>
>>
>> Hit the road Cory-the-Asswipe. Disputes are
>> part & parcel of Usenet. If you don't like what you see,
>> don't let the door hit you in the ass.
>
> Well not all of usenet and did you ever hear of something called
> Netiquette. Flame wars are a waste of time and energy and people don't
> resect you for engaging in them.
^^^^^^^



Resect ??????!!!

buglady
April 1st 07, 05:20 PM
"Ernie" > wrote in message
...

Why don't you all shut the flock up and take a list of the latest recalled
foods around to your grocery stores instead of flapping your gums.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

Ernie[_2_]
April 1st 07, 07:13 PM
"buglady" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> Why don't you all shut the flock up and take a list of the latest recalled
> foods around to your grocery stores instead of flapping your gums.



So says the moron with a dial-up account from the Orlando area.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

William Graham
April 1st 07, 07:15 PM
"buglady" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Ernie" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> Why don't you all shut the flock up and take a list of the latest recalled
> foods around to your grocery stores instead of flapping your gums.
>
> buglady
> take out the dog before replying
>
>
Oh, they'll have all the foods on the list, all right.....But I want a list
of all the foods that are guaranteed to be free of contaminants.....Until
they come out with that list, I'll feed my cats my own food, thanks.......

Kitty
April 1st 07, 09:59 PM
"William Graham" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "buglady" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>>
>> "Ernie" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> Why don't you all shut the flock up and take a list of the latest
>> recalled
>> foods around to your grocery stores instead of flapping your gums.
>>
>> buglady
>> take out the dog before replying
>>
>>
> Oh, they'll have all the foods on the list, all right.....But I want a
> list of all the foods that are guaranteed to be free of
> contaminants.....Until they come out with that list, I'll feed my cats my
> own food, thanks.......
>

I just went out and bought chicken gizzards to cook and give to my kitties
and cans of salmon meant for humans......I hope they like it.............


Kitty

William Graham
April 2nd 07, 06:03 AM
"Kitty" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "William Graham" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "buglady" > wrote in message
>> ink.net...
>>>
>>> "Ernie" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Why don't you all shut the flock up and take a list of the latest
>>> recalled
>>> foods around to your grocery stores instead of flapping your gums.
>>>
>>> buglady
>>> take out the dog before replying
>>>
>>>
>> Oh, they'll have all the foods on the list, all right.....But I want a
>> list of all the foods that are guaranteed to be free of
>> contaminants.....Until they come out with that list, I'll feed my cats my
>> own food, thanks.......
>>
>
> I just went out and bought chicken gizzards to cook and give to my kitties
> and cans of salmon meant for humans......I hope they like it.............
>
>
> Kitty
>
Yes, and there's the rub....My cats don't really like a lot of the fresh
foods I cook for them...they are so used to eating that dry food that it's
hard for me to get them to eat the chickens....Especially the
females....They think the chicken is for the male feral cat, and they won't
touch it unless I hand feed it to them piece by piece........

April 8th 07, 06:39 AM
On Mar 23, 7:15 pm, "Celticbeard" > wrote:
> Buried a 14 year old tabby in December 06 from a sudden and rapid
> kidney failure. She ate Iams and Fancy feast and I noticed she seemed
> to dislike the gravy style food and we bought it a couple of times by
> mistake and expectde her to eat it anyway.
>
> Got the vet bills and grave in the yard to prove it. They say it
> started as early as December but I strongly suspect it was almost
> certainly in the food chain as early as October or November and my
> last tabby Rosie went out fast because she was not a strong or young
> kitten anymore.
>
> They a full of poop if they are trying to say they have no clue. They
> have lots of clues but they want to sift through them and spin it in
> the best possible light for themselves. When we look at the salaries
> of execs in this country and then for them to allow something like
> this to happen, they deserve proper penalties to offset the huge
> rewards they normally enjoy.
>
> Now I have to worry that my new cat was given any of the leftover food
> because I never suspected premium IAMS would be on the cat killer
> list.

Hello,
I was researching the pet food recall and found this discussion.
First I want to say how sorry I am that you lost your cat. My 18 year
old cat also got sick the same time period yours did, and she was
eating Fancy Feast cuts in gravy. Like your kitty, she started
refusing to eat it. She quit eating all together because her only
choices were what we had, or the Hills prescription diet! (which has
made the list).
I think it saved her life though. I got so worried that she would not
eat, that I gave her raw shrimp with a little olive oil, and she ate
that like the starving kitty that she was. Like your cat, her illness
was very sudden, but due to her age, we thought it was nature taking
it's course. She recovered, but with damage. She is a walking
skeleton. I find it very interesting both of our cats got sick in the
same time period, on the same food, but there is not mention of fancy
feast in the list. I was wondering if you had any new thoughts?

Meghan Noecker
April 8th 07, 10:14 AM
On 7 Apr 2007 22:39:29 -0700, wrote:



> I think it saved her life though. I got so worried that she would not
>eat, that I gave her raw shrimp with a little olive oil, and she ate
>that like the starving kitty that she was. Like your cat, her illness
>was very sudden, but due to her age, we thought it was nature taking
>it's course. She recovered, but with damage. She is a walking
>skeleton. I find it very interesting both of our cats got sick in the
>same time period, on the same food, but there is not mention of fancy
>feast in the list. I was wondering if you had any new thoughts?


I would be interested to know if some of Fancy Feast's foods did have
a problem in October. She was anemic all year, but suddenly had renal
failure at the end. She had bloodwork again only a week before she
died, and it did not indicate renal failure. I actually posted to the
list asking if renal failure could really come on that suddenly since
it didn't make any sense to me.

She was getting a variety of flavors of Fancy Feast at the time,
including cuts and gravy. After she died, I stuck with the two flavors
that Jay Jay likes, and neither of them have any grain products in
them.

When the recall started, I checked to see if the Fancy Feast was on
the list, because it would make sense for what happened to Kira. But
Fancy Feast has not been on the list at all, and Kira died before the
December date listed.

Fred
April 8th 07, 02:40 PM
Meghan Noecker wrote:

> On 7 Apr 2007 22:39:29 -0700, wrote:
>
>
>
>> I think it saved her life though. I got so worried that she would not
>>eat, that I gave her raw shrimp with a little olive oil, and she ate
>>that like the starving kitty that she was. Like your cat, her illness
>>was very sudden, but due to her age, we thought it was nature taking
>>it's course. She recovered, but with damage. She is a walking
>>skeleton. I find it very interesting both of our cats got sick in the
>>same time period, on the same food, but there is not mention of fancy
>>feast in the list. I was wondering if you had any new thoughts?
>
>
> I would be interested to know if some of Fancy Feast's foods did have
> a problem in October. She was anemic all year, but suddenly had renal
> failure at the end. She had bloodwork again only a week before she
> died, and it did not indicate renal failure. I actually posted to the
> list asking if renal failure could really come on that suddenly since
> it didn't make any sense to me.
>
> She was getting a variety of flavors of Fancy Feast at the time,
> including cuts and gravy. After she died, I stuck with the two flavors
> that Jay Jay likes, and neither of them have any grain products in
> them.
>
> When the recall started, I checked to see if the Fancy Feast was on
> the list, because it would make sense for what happened to Kira. But
> Fancy Feast has not been on the list at all, and Kira died before the
> December date listed.

I haven't seen Fancy Feast on any of the lists. IS it a problem food. I
have a stack of the tins on the kitchen table and I've been feeding it to
my three cats all along thinking that it was safe. Occasionally the cats
leave the tinned food in their dishes and I thought it was just a flavour
preference. I sometimes give them Performatrin but mostly it's been Fancy
Feast for breakfast and Frisky's for supper. (We live in Ottawa Canada).


--
Regards, Fred

Manfred Mann
April 8th 07, 02:41 PM
>> Got the vet bills and grave in the yard to prove it. They say it
>> started as early as December but I strongly suspect it was almost
>> certainly in the food chain as early as October or November and my
>> last tabby Rosie went out fast because she was not a strong or young
>> kitten anymore.
They now think it was in there as early as October 2006. They are
now going back that far.

>> They a full of poop if they are trying to say they have no clue. They
>> have lots of clues but they want to sift through them and spin it in
>> the best possible light for themselves. When we look at the salaries
>> of execs in this country and then for them to allow something like
>> this to happen, they deserve proper penalties to offset the huge
>> rewards they normally enjoy.
Uhhhh.....Menu Foods is in Canada.....

>> Now I have to worry that my new cat was given any of the leftover food
>> because I never suspected premium IAMS would be on the cat killer
>> list.
96 brands altogether accross many corporations.