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View Full Version : I'M So Angry!! Ringo has been shot with a BB Gun


sheelagh
March 23rd 07, 04:21 PM
Words fail me....
Last night I went outside to call Ringo in & when there was no
response, I knew in my gut that there was something Very Wrong Because
Ringo is always here for dinner time....

I searched the front of the house, then out the back, but there was no
Ringo.
I decided to leave it half an hour but when the time was up, we set
out on a search party to see where he was hanging out & why he had not
simply come home when we called him. By this time I was in near
frantic panic, because it is soooo out of character....

Our neighbors kids joined in the search,& by 7.15pm we had over 8
people looking for him - he is ever such a popular puss because he is
so friendly & will allow anyone to give him tunny tickles..
We continued to search, & kept in contact by mobile (cell phone!)

At around 8.10pm, my son Ross found him. He was lying on his side in
the meadow under a hedge panting. Ross called me right away & when I
reached him, I could see that Ringo was panting & he had blood all
over his fur just under his left eye & just under his right fore leg.
I didn't have to guess too long to see what had happened to him...
He had been shot, but I wasn't sure what with.

Paul joined me, & we lifted him up onto a board & covered him with a
blanket. I called the vet from the meadow & asked if he would see
Ringo, & he told us to handle whim with care & bring him straight down
there.
It was obvious that Ringo was in shock & shivering too. I had no idea
how long he had lain there, but the last time I could remember seeing
him, was around 5.30pm, so we don't know what time this had happened.
You wouldn't believe how fast my trusty old Ford escort shot down the
motorway, I would never have believed it could go that fast,
seriously!!

On arrival, we were met, & he was seen straight away. I went into the
consultation room with him, & the vet had a quick look & told me that
he had to get an xray done as fast as possible, & then onto theater if
nessacery to get the pellets out, because he was conerned that the
pellet might have penetrated some of his organs & the fear of him
dying of shock was quite possible, so they wanted to get him seen to
as fast as possible, so we left them to get on with it.

It is such a terrible feeling You feel so helpless;o(

The vet already had assisting staff to help him because they have a 24
hour facility, so they were able to proceed immediately...
We were told to go home and that they would call us as soon as they
had any news for us. Just over an hour and a half later, we got a call
to say that Ringo had got through the surgery. They managed to get the
pellet out of his foreleg & it was logged into his bone, & also that
he had got the pellet out of his jaw, but he wasn't sure if Ringo lost
his sight in his out of his left eye, because it was logged so near to
the optic nerve that he did consider leaving it in case he caused more
damage than was already done. He also told us that the one in his leg
was shot at almost blank rang too

As you can imagine, we shot down there to see him, but he was very
sedated, & didn't manage much more than a hand lick & an ear tickle.
I Can't describe the RAGE that we feel, knowing that someone who lives
near us had thought it funny to shoot him ,quite possibly knowing that
it was our cat too..
Whilst waiting for Ringo to come out of surgery, we called the police
to alert them to the fact that we have a loose canon in the
neighborhood, & we also called the RSPCA to alert them too, only to
find out that Ringo was only one of four cats who had been shot
yesterday on our nearest estate.
I feel sick to the pit of my stomach knowing that someone could
possibly do that to a poor defenseless cat, who has done them no harm
at all. How could anyone shoot a cat at blank range? It wouldn't
surprise me if it turns out to be a child who's parents have bought it
for them as a gift.....

THEY SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL...!!!!!
Sorry, but I feel so ANGRY

Ringo is still in special care room, but doing much better today. He
remains sedated & is responding well. He still has his hydration drip
in his other fore leg, but he did try to lap some water earlier today.
He looks like a mini mummy with all of the bandages round his head and
his leg where they splinted him & strapped him under his fore leg..

My kids are keeping their ears open to see if they can find out who
has a new BB pellet gun recently, Or who was in the meadow last night
around the same time last night. No doubt even if we do find out how
it was, the worst that will happen is that they *MIGHT* get a rap on
the knuckles & a public caution. In fact the best thing we could hope
for, is for the police to remeove the gun to stop it happening
again..If we are lucky, that is
Whats to stop them going straight out to buy another one tomorrow..?
I hope that I don't find out who did it, because right now, I am too
angry to deal with it
The boys used to wonder why I wouldn't allow them to have a BB gun, &
yesterday the learnt exactly why..not one of them wants one now. I
think that they are as outraged as we are

Sheelagh

Lynne
March 23rd 07, 04:30 PM
on Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:21:57 GMT, "sheelagh"
> wrote:

> I feel sick to the pit of my stomach knowing that someone could
> possibly do that to a poor defenseless cat, who has done them no harm
> at all.

Oh, Sheelagh... Oh my god. Poor Ringo. <seriously bawling my eyes out
here> I'm so devastated for you all, and so angry about what happened that
words fail me. Please keep us informed on Ringo's progress. I have a
special place in my heart for that boy. I'm just sick about this. I can't
imagine the mix of emotions you must be feeling. I'm sure they are
overwhelming.

Try to stay strong, I know you've been through so much lately. You are all
in my thoughts.

--
Lynne

Matthew
March 23rd 07, 04:32 PM
I am so sorry Sheelagh. The feeling I call it like a person be raped the
feeling of helplessness, the feeling of deception, the feeling of
violation.

I know I would be using a large burlap bag, a phonebook and a lead pipe no
evidence no trace no bruises that person would be praying to what ever god
they believed in by the time I was done. Let them feel what you felt that
would be one heck of a lesson


"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Words fail me....
> Last night I went outside to call Ringo in & when there was no
> response, I knew in my gut that there was something Very Wrong Because
> Ringo is always here for dinner time....
>
> I searched the front of the house, then out the back, but there was no
> Ringo.
> I decided to leave it half an hour but when the time was up, we set
> out on a search party to see where he was hanging out & why he had not
> simply come home when we called him. By this time I was in near
> frantic panic, because it is soooo out of character....
>
> Our neighbors kids joined in the search,& by 7.15pm we had over 8
> people looking for him - he is ever such a popular puss because he is
> so friendly & will allow anyone to give him tunny tickles..
> We continued to search, & kept in contact by mobile (cell phone!)
>
> At around 8.10pm, my son Ross found him. He was lying on his side in
> the meadow under a hedge panting. Ross called me right away & when I
> reached him, I could see that Ringo was panting & he had blood all
> over his fur just under his left eye & just under his right fore leg.
> I didn't have to guess too long to see what had happened to him...
> He had been shot, but I wasn't sure what with.
>
> Paul joined me, & we lifted him up onto a board & covered him with a
> blanket. I called the vet from the meadow & asked if he would see
> Ringo, & he told us to handle whim with care & bring him straight down
> there.
> It was obvious that Ringo was in shock & shivering too. I had no idea
> how long he had lain there, but the last time I could remember seeing
> him, was around 5.30pm, so we don't know what time this had happened.
> You wouldn't believe how fast my trusty old Ford escort shot down the
> motorway, I would never have believed it could go that fast,
> seriously!!
>
> On arrival, we were met, & he was seen straight away. I went into the
> consultation room with him, & the vet had a quick look & told me that
> he had to get an xray done as fast as possible, & then onto theater if
> nessacery to get the pellets out, because he was conerned that the
> pellet might have penetrated some of his organs & the fear of him
> dying of shock was quite possible, so they wanted to get him seen to
> as fast as possible, so we left them to get on with it.
>
> It is such a terrible feeling You feel so helpless;o(
>
> The vet already had assisting staff to help him because they have a 24
> hour facility, so they were able to proceed immediately...
> We were told to go home and that they would call us as soon as they
> had any news for us. Just over an hour and a half later, we got a call
> to say that Ringo had got through the surgery. They managed to get the
> pellet out of his foreleg & it was logged into his bone, & also that
> he had got the pellet out of his jaw, but he wasn't sure if Ringo lost
> his sight in his out of his left eye, because it was logged so near to
> the optic nerve that he did consider leaving it in case he caused more
> damage than was already done. He also told us that the one in his leg
> was shot at almost blank rang too
>
> As you can imagine, we shot down there to see him, but he was very
> sedated, & didn't manage much more than a hand lick & an ear tickle.
> I Can't describe the RAGE that we feel, knowing that someone who lives
> near us had thought it funny to shoot him ,quite possibly knowing that
> it was our cat too..
> Whilst waiting for Ringo to come out of surgery, we called the police
> to alert them to the fact that we have a loose canon in the
> neighborhood, & we also called the RSPCA to alert them too, only to
> find out that Ringo was only one of four cats who had been shot
> yesterday on our nearest estate.
> I feel sick to the pit of my stomach knowing that someone could
> possibly do that to a poor defenseless cat, who has done them no harm
> at all. How could anyone shoot a cat at blank range? It wouldn't
> surprise me if it turns out to be a child who's parents have bought it
> for them as a gift.....
>
> THEY SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL...!!!!!
> Sorry, but I feel so ANGRY
>
> Ringo is still in special care room, but doing much better today. He
> remains sedated & is responding well. He still has his hydration drip
> in his other fore leg, but he did try to lap some water earlier today.
> He looks like a mini mummy with all of the bandages round his head and
> his leg where they splinted him & strapped him under his fore leg..
>
> My kids are keeping their ears open to see if they can find out who
> has a new BB pellet gun recently, Or who was in the meadow last night
> around the same time last night. No doubt even if we do find out how
> it was, the worst that will happen is that they *MIGHT* get a rap on
> the knuckles & a public caution. In fact the best thing we could hope
> for, is for the police to remeove the gun to stop it happening
> again..If we are lucky, that is
> Whats to stop them going straight out to buy another one tomorrow..?
> I hope that I don't find out who did it, because right now, I am too
> angry to deal with it
> The boys used to wonder why I wouldn't allow them to have a BB gun, &
> yesterday the learnt exactly why..not one of them wants one now. I
> think that they are as outraged as we are
>
> Sheelagh
>

sheelagh
March 23rd 07, 05:00 PM
On 23 Mar, 16:30, Lynne > wrote:
> on Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:21:57 GMT, "sheelagh"
>
> > wrote:
> > I feel sick to the pit of my stomach knowing that someone could
> > possibly do that to a poor defenseless cat, who has done them no harm
> > at all.
>
> Oh, Sheelagh... Oh my god. Poor Ringo. <seriously bawling my eyes out
> here> I'm so devastated for you all, and so angry about what happened that
> words fail me. Please keep us informed on Ringo's progress. I have a
> special place in my heart for that boy. I'm just sick about this. I can't
> imagine the mix of emotions you must be feeling. I'm sure they are
> overwhelming.
> Lynne
> Try to stay strong, I know you've been through so much lately. You are all
> in my thoughts.

I will, & thank you very much for your words of comfort Lynne.
I was in shock for hours last night. It took a good 3hours for it to
sink in, & then Rage took over...I wanted to go bang, especially when
we found out that we were only one of 3 families affected by the same
loose canon.
I have the name of one family, so I intend to go and see them later
this evening, because I know them.
If there is anything that we can do to stop it happening again, I will
do it,
short of violence.

Of course I will keep you up dated on how he is coming along.
It is simply bad luck that we have been affected yet again, but I do
believe that things that come, round, will go around...
It will come back to haunt them one day!!
S;o)

I know I would be using a large burlap bag, a phonebook and a lead
pipe no
evidence no trace no bruises that person would be praying to what
ever god
they believed in by the time I was done. Let them feel what you felt
that
would be one heck of a lesson
Matthew

You have no idea how tempting it was Matthew. I was soooo ANGRY;o(
It still is to be perfectly honest..But I know that it would end up
with me getting locked up for violence rather than them which is
ludicrous.
I am sure that God's eyes were open when it happend, & it always comes
back to you when you wrong someone. In this case it was a cat....What
happens when it is a child's eye..?
I can't believe how blase they were...(Police)
S.

22brix
March 23rd 07, 05:09 PM
Sheelagh,

I'm so sorry. It's just horrible--how someone can do that to a friendly,
defenseless animal is beyond me. You are probably right about the slap on
the wrist, even if the person is caught. This just makes me so furious. I
hope there's a special place in hell for these people.

I really hope Ringo comes through this okay. I'm glad you have a 24 hour
vet hospital close by. You've just been through too much with your cats
lately. I was thinking about you last night and wondering how Tiggy and the
rest of your kitties are doing and then to hear about Ringo.

Sending healing thoughts and purrs your way,

Bonnie

"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Words fail me....
> Last night I went outside to call Ringo in & when there was no
> response, I knew in my gut that there was something Very Wrong Because
> Ringo is always here for dinner time....
>
> I searched the front of the house, then out the back, but there was no
> Ringo.
> I decided to leave it half an hour but when the time was up, we set
> out on a search party to see where he was hanging out & why he had not
> simply come home when we called him. By this time I was in near
> frantic panic, because it is soooo out of character....
>
> Our neighbors kids joined in the search,& by 7.15pm we had over 8
> people looking for him - he is ever such a popular puss because he is
> so friendly & will allow anyone to give him tunny tickles..
> We continued to search, & kept in contact by mobile (cell phone!)
>
> At around 8.10pm, my son Ross found him. He was lying on his side in
> the meadow under a hedge panting. Ross called me right away & when I
> reached him, I could see that Ringo was panting & he had blood all
> over his fur just under his left eye & just under his right fore leg.
> I didn't have to guess too long to see what had happened to him...
> He had been shot, but I wasn't sure what with.
>
> Paul joined me, & we lifted him up onto a board & covered him with a
> blanket. I called the vet from the meadow & asked if he would see
> Ringo, & he told us to handle whim with care & bring him straight down
> there.
> It was obvious that Ringo was in shock & shivering too. I had no idea
> how long he had lain there, but the last time I could remember seeing
> him, was around 5.30pm, so we don't know what time this had happened.
> You wouldn't believe how fast my trusty old Ford escort shot down the
> motorway, I would never have believed it could go that fast,
> seriously!!
>
> On arrival, we were met, & he was seen straight away. I went into the
> consultation room with him, & the vet had a quick look & told me that
> he had to get an xray done as fast as possible, & then onto theater if
> nessacery to get the pellets out, because he was conerned that the
> pellet might have penetrated some of his organs & the fear of him
> dying of shock was quite possible, so they wanted to get him seen to
> as fast as possible, so we left them to get on with it.
>
> It is such a terrible feeling You feel so helpless;o(
>
> The vet already had assisting staff to help him because they have a 24
> hour facility, so they were able to proceed immediately...
> We were told to go home and that they would call us as soon as they
> had any news for us. Just over an hour and a half later, we got a call
> to say that Ringo had got through the surgery. They managed to get the
> pellet out of his foreleg & it was logged into his bone, & also that
> he had got the pellet out of his jaw, but he wasn't sure if Ringo lost
> his sight in his out of his left eye, because it was logged so near to
> the optic nerve that he did consider leaving it in case he caused more
> damage than was already done. He also told us that the one in his leg
> was shot at almost blank rang too
>
> As you can imagine, we shot down there to see him, but he was very
> sedated, & didn't manage much more than a hand lick & an ear tickle.
> I Can't describe the RAGE that we feel, knowing that someone who lives
> near us had thought it funny to shoot him ,quite possibly knowing that
> it was our cat too..
> Whilst waiting for Ringo to come out of surgery, we called the police
> to alert them to the fact that we have a loose canon in the
> neighborhood, & we also called the RSPCA to alert them too, only to
> find out that Ringo was only one of four cats who had been shot
> yesterday on our nearest estate.
> I feel sick to the pit of my stomach knowing that someone could
> possibly do that to a poor defenseless cat, who has done them no harm
> at all. How could anyone shoot a cat at blank range? It wouldn't
> surprise me if it turns out to be a child who's parents have bought it
> for them as a gift.....
>
> THEY SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL...!!!!!
> Sorry, but I feel so ANGRY
>
> Ringo is still in special care room, but doing much better today. He
> remains sedated & is responding well. He still has his hydration drip
> in his other fore leg, but he did try to lap some water earlier today.
> He looks like a mini mummy with all of the bandages round his head and
> his leg where they splinted him & strapped him under his fore leg..
>
> My kids are keeping their ears open to see if they can find out who
> has a new BB pellet gun recently, Or who was in the meadow last night
> around the same time last night. No doubt even if we do find out how
> it was, the worst that will happen is that they *MIGHT* get a rap on
> the knuckles & a public caution. In fact the best thing we could hope
> for, is for the police to remeove the gun to stop it happening
> again..If we are lucky, that is
> Whats to stop them going straight out to buy another one tomorrow..?
> I hope that I don't find out who did it, because right now, I am too
> angry to deal with it
> The boys used to wonder why I wouldn't allow them to have a BB gun, &
> yesterday the learnt exactly why..not one of them wants one now. I
> think that they are as outraged as we are
>
> Sheelagh
>

sheelagh
March 23rd 07, 05:12 PM
On 23 Mar, 18:00, "cybercat" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" > wrote
>
> > THEY SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL...!!!!!
> > Sorry, but I feel so ANGRY
>
> All you have to do is keep him in.

I know that you are right Cyber...

I do normally keep him in, but he had been crying to go out, & I gave
in to him.
(have no excuses to hand out, because you are right)

Normally, he only sits in the back garden under the tree, but for some
reason yesterday he decided to wonder into the meadow...

I can't help likening it to a child being shot though. Both
defenseless & never asked for it to be done to them.
However, it is only an instance...
I am aware that it is my own fault, & I don't feel very pleased or
proud of myself either :(
S.

sheelagh
March 23rd 07, 05:36 PM
On 23 Mar, 17:09, "22brix" > wrote:
> Sheelagh,
>
> I'm so sorry. It's just horrible--how someone can do that to a friendly,
> defenseless animal is beyond me. You are probably right about the slap on
> the wrist, even if the person is caught. This just makes me so furious. I
> hope there's a special place in hell for these people.

Thanks Bonnie.
Cyber is right
<sigh>

I do blame myself for it happening to him, but I am still outraged
that anyone would do this to the sweetest friendliest cat on the
block.

I also hope that there is a special place in hell for them as well. It
seems really wrong that they get away with it. You hardly ever hear of
anyone getting as far as court when things like this happen..

> I really hope Ringo comes through this okay. I'm glad you have a 24 hour
> vet hospital close by. You've just been through too much with your cats
> lately. I was thinking about you last night and wondering how Tiggy and the
> rest of your kitties are doing and then to hear about Ringo.
>
> Sending healing thoughts and purrs your way,
Thanks for the soothing purrs, I will pass them on to him shortly

So are we. Just a few short weeks ago, we would have taken him to the
previous vet, who had no 24 hour care.
Thank goodness that we did move them over!

Your right, I seem to have spent a hell of a lot of time @ the vets
recently, but then again I wouldn't have it any other way. At least I
feel that I can trust this surgery & I do have full confidence in them
too.

Tiggy came home yesterday afternoon with a horrible bill, that they
have kindly allowed me to pay in three instalments ...

( you have no idea how embarrassing it was having to ask if that was
possible)
<blush!!>

Tiggy is soo much better now;o)
We have given over the extension to her so that she has her own
personal space away from all of the other cats, with her own bowl,
feeding trough & litter too...
She still looks a little delicate, but that should pass soon
hopefully. We were given pain meds for the 1st time ever too.
I was shocked when I saw everyone posting re: pain meds, because we
have NEVER been offered any for the other cats before Tiggy's op. I
was shocked!!

Tigs is eating normally, drinking fine & she is ever so easy to give
meds to, so we have no problems there either.
she looks ever so odd where they have shaved her though..
A bit like Sylvester out of tweety pie and Sylvester, lol...

Got to go and do mum's taxi service for the kids for couple of hours,
then pop over to see hi to himagain for a while before picking them
up again. Seems pointless coming home, only to turn round and go back
again
S.


-

Lynne
March 23rd 07, 05:42 PM
on Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:12:10 GMT, "sheelagh"
> wrote:

> I do normally keep him in, but he had been crying to go out, & I gave
> in to him.
> (have no excuses to hand out, because you are right)

Sheelagh, don't blame yourself. Things are different in England and it's
customary for cats to be indoor/outdoor. However, in light of what has
happened to Ringo, I think you should start keeping them all in. Perhaps
you can build a large outdoor cat run for them.

At any rate, don't feel guilty. There's absolutely nothing to be
accomplished with that. With all the emotional turmoil you've endured
recently, staying centered is going to be tough. Take care of Ringo, but
don't forget to take care of yourself, too!

--
Lynne

Lynne
March 23rd 07, 05:44 PM
on Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:36:21 GMT, "sheelagh"
> wrote:

> It
> seems really wrong that they get away with it. You hardly ever hear of
> anyone getting as far as court when things like this happen..

We are seeing a turn to that tide here in the US. I hear more and more of
stiff punishments for people who abuse animals. I hope England will come
along on that front, too.

Poor Ringo... this is so heartbreaking.

--
Lynne

cybercat
March 23rd 07, 06:00 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote
> THEY SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL...!!!!!
> Sorry, but I feel so ANGRY
>

All you have to do is keep him in.

22brix
March 23rd 07, 06:33 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>
> I do blame myself for it happening to him, but I am still outraged
> that anyone would do this to the sweetest friendliest cat on the
> block.

Sheelagh,

It's a horrible, totally unexpected thing to have happen. The UK has always
seemed to be a safer place--not nearly as many predators and less guns as
opposed to many places in the US. I wish I could let my cats outside but we
live in a rural area (in the wild, wild west!) and there are too many
predators around here. Just today the local paper had an article about a
retriever/lab mix that was killed by a mountain lion in the back yard on the
outskirts of a town about 45 minutes away from where we live. We also have
coyotes, raccoons, rattlesnakes (although cats are usually pretty smart
around snakes), hawks, to name a few. It's awful when you start having to
worry about BB gun toting people as well.

> It seems really wrong that they get away with it. You hardly ever hear of
> anyone getting as far as court when things like this happen..
>

I know--although I have heard of stricter sentences being handed down, of
actual jail time in more and more cases of animal abuse. It's not nearly
enough and certainly not very consistent.

>
> Your right, I seem to have spent a hell of a lot of time @ the vets
> recently, but then again I wouldn't have it any other way. At least I
> feel that I can trust this surgery & I do have full confidence in them
> too.


So good to hear--I absolutely love my vet. It helps so much to have
confidence in your vet! She's great with the animals, is very good at
listening to what I have to say and is very open to new ideas. She
encourages me to research stuff on my own. She's refered me to specialists
when it was warranted. In a crisis, it's really nice not to be
second-guessing the vet!

>
> Tiggy came home yesterday afternoon with a horrible bill, that they
> have kindly allowed me to pay in three instalments ...
>
> ( you have no idea how embarrassing it was having to ask if that was
> possible)
> <blush!!>

It's happened to most of us--they know how much you've had to spend lately!
Do they provide volume discounts?!? My vet seems to not charge for every
single item when the bill gets beyond a certain point which is always nice!

> Tiggy is soo much better now;o)

> We have given over the extension to her so that she has her own
> personal space away from all of the other cats, with her own bowl,
> feeding trough & litter too...
> She still looks a little delicate, but that should pass soon
> hopefully. We were given pain meds for the 1st time ever too.
> I was shocked when I saw everyone posting re: pain meds, because we
> have NEVER been offered any for the other cats before Tiggy's op. I
> was shocked!!


Yeah!! Glad she's feeling better! The pain meds help with healing sooo
much. Pain causes a tremendous amount of stress, not at all helpful in
healing.

Sheelagh, take care--you've had more than your share of cat problems lately!

Bonnie

bookie
March 23rd 07, 06:46 PM
On 23 Mar, 16:21, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> Words fail me....
> Last night I went outside to call Ringo in & when there was no
> response, I knew in my gut that there was something Very Wrong Because
> Ringo is always here for dinner time....
>
> I searched the front of the house, then out the back, but there was no
> Ringo.
> I decided to leave it half an hour but when the time was up, we set
> out on a search party to see where he was hanging out & why he had not
> simply come home when we called him. By this time I was in near
> frantic panic, because it is soooo out of character....
>
> Our neighbors kids joined in the search,& by 7.15pm we had over 8
> people looking for him - he is ever such a popular puss because he is
> so friendly & will allow anyone to give him tunny tickles..
> We continued to search, & kept in contact by mobile (cell phone!)
>
> At around 8.10pm, my son Ross found him. He was lying on his side in
> the meadow under a hedge panting. Ross called me right away & when I
> reached him, I could see that Ringo was panting & he had blood all
> over his fur just under his left eye & just under his right fore leg.
> I didn't have to guess too long to see what had happened to him...
> He had been shot, but I wasn't sure what with.
>
> Paul joined me, & we lifted him up onto a board & covered him with a
> blanket. I called the vet from the meadow & asked if he would see
> Ringo, & he told us to handle whim with care & bring him straight down
> there.
> It was obvious that Ringo was in shock & shivering too. I had no idea
> how long he had lain there, but the last time I could remember seeing
> him, was around 5.30pm, so we don't know what time this had happened.
> You wouldn't believe how fast my trusty old Ford escort shot down the
> motorway, I would never have believed it could go that fast,
> seriously!!
>
> On arrival, we were met, & he was seen straight away. I went into the
> consultation room with him, & the vet had a quick look & told me that
> he had to get an xray done as fast as possible, & then onto theater if
> nessacery to get the pellets out, because he was conerned that the
> pellet might have penetrated some of his organs & the fear of him
> dying of shock was quite possible, so they wanted to get him seen to
> as fast as possible, so we left them to get on with it.
>
> It is such a terrible feeling You feel so helpless;o(
>
> The vet already had assisting staff to help him because they have a 24
> hour facility, so they were able to proceed immediately...
> We were told to go home and that they would call us as soon as they
> had any news for us. Just over an hour and a half later, we got a call
> to say that Ringo had got through the surgery. They managed to get the
> pellet out of his foreleg & it was logged into his bone, & also that
> he had got the pellet out of his jaw, but he wasn't sure if Ringo lost
> his sight in his out of his left eye, because it was logged so near to
> the optic nerve that he did consider leaving it in case he caused more
> damage than was already done. He also told us that the one in his leg
> was shot at almost blank rang too
>
> As you can imagine, we shot down there to see him, but he was very
> sedated, & didn't manage much more than a hand lick & an ear tickle.
> I Can't describe the RAGE that we feel, knowing that someone who lives
> near us had thought it funny to shoot him ,quite possibly knowing that
> it was our cat too..
> Whilst waiting for Ringo to come out of surgery, we called the police
> to alert them to the fact that we have a loose canon in the
> neighborhood, & we also called the RSPCA to alert them too, only to
> find out that Ringo was only one of four cats who had been shot
> yesterday on our nearest estate.
> I feel sick to the pit of my stomach knowing that someone could
> possibly do that to a poor defenseless cat, who has done them no harm
> at all. How could anyone shoot a cat at blank range? It wouldn't
> surprise me if it turns out to be a child who's parents have bought it
> for them as a gift.....
>
> THEY SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL...!!!!!
> Sorry, but I feel so ANGRY
>
> Ringo is still in special care room, but doing much better today. He
> remains sedated & is responding well. He still has his hydration drip
> in his other fore leg, but he did try to lap some water earlier today.
> He looks like a mini mummy with all of the bandages round his head and
> his leg where they splinted him & strapped him under his fore leg..
>
> My kids are keeping their ears open to see if they can find out who
> has a new BB pellet gun recently, Or who was in the meadow last night
> around the same time last night. No doubt even if we do find out how
> it was, the worst that will happen is that they *MIGHT* get a rap on
> the knuckles & a public caution. In fact the best thing we could hope
> for, is for the police to remeove the gun to stop it happening
> again..If we are lucky, that is
> Whats to stop them going straight out to buy another one tomorrow..?
> I hope that I don't find out who did it, because right now, I am too
> angry to deal with it
> The boys used to wonder why I wouldn't allow them to have a BB gun, &
> yesterday the learnt exactly why..not one of them wants one now. I
> think that they are as outraged as we are
>
> Sheelagh

i am so angry too, whoever it was who did needs to have the living
crap beaten out of them and fast. It may have been kids 'playing' in
which case if they are let out and thinks it is ok top shoot at
innocent creatures them they need to be punished for it, very severely
as they obviously have not let learnt to respect life and their
parents have obviously not bothered to teach them that kind of
behaviour is utterly wrong.

personally if someone did that to one of my kitties (now we have 2,
terri the dark tortie seems to be staying now) yes I would report it
to the police etc but then i would not wait about for them to do
anything, I would just start hanging out in the meadow myself with a
large cricket bat and a few big mates and dish out some justice of my
own, my anger woudl not allow me to stay away.

Seriously you may catch them if you do go an hang around the meadow
inthe afternoon/evening, sounds like these are the kind of cretins who
are likely to go back to the same place again to see what else they
can shoot at. if you do not want to make a citizens arrest or whatever
then take photos of them as evidence, but if they know the place is
being patrolled then they will be unlikely to do it again which coudl
save other poor kitties fromthe same fate.

this kind of thing just really ****es me off, so typical of the youth
of today, not taught by their parents to respect animals or other life
at all. If they got a good beating fopr it they woudl never do it
again i can assure you, but with today's PC culture of not touchign
the little darlings they know they can get away with anything and not
get punished, furthermore they never learn to feel the kind of pain
which they are inflicting on others such as poor ringo.

purrs for both jessie and terri and me, I really hope ringo gets
better and you catch these evil little ****s, I will gladly come up
there and help you find them if you want!

bookie

Lis
March 23rd 07, 07:40 PM
On Mar 23, 12:21 pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> Words fail me....
> Last night I went outside to call Ringo in & when there was no
> response, I knew in my gut that there was something Very Wrong Because
> Ringo is always here for dinner time....
>
> I searched the front of the house, then out the back, but there was no
> Ringo.
> I decided to leave it half an hour but when the time was up, we set
> out on a search party to see where he was hanging out & why he had not
> simply come home when we called him. By this time I was in near
> frantic panic, because it is soooo out of character....
>
> Our neighbors kids joined in the search,& by 7.15pm we had over 8
> people looking for him - he is ever such a popular puss because he is
> so friendly & will allow anyone to give him tunny tickles..
> We continued to search, & kept in contact by mobile (cell phone!)
>
> At around 8.10pm, my son Ross found him. He was lying on his side in
> the meadow under a hedge panting. Ross called me right away & when I
> reached him, I could see that Ringo was panting & he had blood all
> over his fur just under his left eye & just under his right fore leg.
> I didn't have to guess too long to see what had happened to him...
> He had been shot, but I wasn't sure what with.

Sheelagh, I'm very sorry to hear this! I hope Ringo recovers
completely.

> Paul joined me, & we lifted him up onto a board & covered him with a
> blanket. I called the vet from the meadow & asked if he would see
> Ringo, & he told us to handle whim with care & bring him straight down
> there.
> It was obvious that Ringo was in shock & shivering too. I had no idea
> how long he had lain there, but the last time I could remember seeing
> him, was around 5.30pm, so we don't know what time this had happened.
> You wouldn't believe how fast my trusty old Ford escort shot down the
> motorway, I would never have believed it could go that fast,
> seriously!!
>
> On arrival, we were met, & he was seen straight away. I went into the
> consultation room with him, & the vet had a quick look & told me that
> he had to get an xray done as fast as possible, & then onto theater if
> nessacery to get the pellets out, because he was conerned that the
> pellet might have penetrated some of his organs & the fear of him
> dying of shock was quite possible, so they wanted to get him seen to
> as fast as possible, so we left them to get on with it.
>
> It is such a terrible feeling You feel so helpless;o(
>
> The vet already had assisting staff to help him because they have a 24
> hour facility, so they were able to proceed immediately...
> We were told to go home and that they would call us as soon as they
> had any news for us. Just over an hour and a half later, we got a call
> to say that Ringo had got through the surgery. They managed to get the
> pellet out of his foreleg & it was logged into his bone, & also that
> he had got the pellet out of his jaw, but he wasn't sure if Ringo lost
> his sight in his out of his left eye, because it was logged so near to
> the optic nerve that he did consider leaving it in case he caused more
> damage than was already done. He also told us that the one in his leg
> was shot at almost blank rang too
>
> As you can imagine, we shot down there to see him, but he was very
> sedated, & didn't manage much more than a hand lick & an ear tickle.
> I Can't describe the RAGE that we feel, knowing that someone who lives
> near us had thought it funny to shoot him ,quite possibly knowing that
> it was our cat too..
> Whilst waiting for Ringo to come out of surgery, we called the police
> to alert them to the fact that we have a loose canon in the
> neighborhood, & we also called the RSPCA to alert them too, only to
> find out that Ringo was only one of four cats who had been shot
> yesterday on our nearest estate.
> I feel sick to the pit of my stomach knowing that someone could
> possibly do that to a poor defenseless cat, who has done them no harm
> at all. How could anyone shoot a cat at blank range? It wouldn't
> surprise me if it turns out to be a child who's parents have bought it
> for them as a gift.....
>
> THEY SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL...!!!!!
> Sorry, but I feel so ANGRY
>
> Ringo is still in special care room, but doing much better today. He
> remains sedated & is responding well. He still has his hydration drip
> in his other fore leg, but he did try to lap some water earlier today.
> He looks like a mini mummy with all of the bandages round his head and
> his leg where they splinted him & strapped him under his fore leg..
>
> My kids are keeping their ears open to see if they can find out who
> has a new BB pellet gun recently, Or who was in the meadow last night
> around the same time last night. No doubt even if we do find out how
> it was, the worst that will happen is that they *MIGHT* get a rap on
> the knuckles & a public caution. In fact the best thing we could hope
> for, is for the police to remeove the gun to stop it happening
> again..If we are lucky, that is

This has been slowly changing in the US; maybe it will start floating
across the Atlantic? We borrow so many ideas from each other, and the
idea of animal cruelty legislation came from the UK. Maybe with so
many cats shot in one area, the RSPCA will be able to make a push on
this?

> Whats to stop them going straight out to buy another one tomorrow..?
> I hope that I don't find out who did it, because right now, I am too
> angry to deal with it
> The boys used to wonder why I wouldn't allow them to have a BB gun, &
> yesterday the learnt exactly why..not one of them wants one now. I
> think that they are as outraged as we are

It's a hard lesson, when I'm sure THEY would never have thought of
using a BB gun that way. (Some things never change; I can remember my
cousins and I having much the same conversations with our parents,
forty years ago. "But we'll be very careful!" Got none of us anywhere,
I'm pleased to say.)

Lis

cindys
March 23rd 07, 08:46 PM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> on Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:21:57 GMT, "sheelagh"
> > wrote:
>
>> I feel sick to the pit of my stomach knowing that someone could
>> possibly do that to a poor defenseless cat, who has done them no harm
>> at all.
>
> Oh, Sheelagh... Oh my god. Poor Ringo. <seriously bawling my eyes out
> here>

Me too.

> I'm so devastated for you all, and so angry about what happened that
> words fail me. Please keep us informed on Ringo's progress. I have a
> special place in my heart for that boy. I'm just sick about this. I
> can't
> imagine the mix of emotions you must be feeling. I'm sure they are
> overwhelming.
>
> Try to stay strong, I know you've been through so much lately. You are
> all
> in my thoughts.

Me too. I don't have anything to add to this. I'm crying and want to kill
someone and feel like throwing up all at the same time. It's the same
emotion I feel about our Bullwinkle who is the gentlest, sweetest cat in the
whole world. He was a rescue who had been abused and abandoned. Everytime I
think of someone hurting this cat....I just don't have the words.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Wendy
March 23rd 07, 10:40 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Words fail me....
> Last night I went outside to call Ringo in & when there was no
> response, I knew in my gut that there was something Very Wrong Because
> Ringo is always here for dinner time....
>

>
> Sheelagh
>


I'm so sorry to hear someone shot your cat and hopes he recovers well. There
is no excuse for that kind of behavior.

This is one of many reasons that we encourage people to keep their cats
inside. It seems nowhere is safe from this kind of thing any more. Consider
building an outside enclosure where your guys can get fresh air but not be
subjected to the little beasts that do this kind of thing. If some beast
would take pot shots at a cat they aren't beyond doing worse to it.

Wendy

mlbriggs
March 24th 07, 12:26 AM
On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 10:12:10 -0700, sheelagh wrote:

> On 23 Mar, 18:00, "cybercat" > wrote:
>> "sheelagh" > wrote
>>
>> > THEY SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL...!!!!!
>> > Sorry, but I feel so ANGRY
>>
>> All you have to do is keep him in.
>
> I know that you are right Cyber...
>
> I do normally keep him in, but he had been crying to go out, & I gave in
> to him.
> (have no excuses to hand out, because you are right)
>
> Normally, he only sits in the back garden under the tree, but for some
> reason yesterday he decided to wonder into the meadow...
>
> I can't help likening it to a child being shot though. Both defenseless &
> never asked for it to be done to them. However, it is only an instance...
> I am aware that it is my own fault, & I don't feel very pleased or proud
> of myself either :(
> S.


Purrs for a complete recovery. I hope the police are able to confiscate
the gun so it won't happen to other animals. Best wishes. MLB

Lynne
March 24th 07, 12:31 AM
on Sat, 24 Mar 2007 00:26:43 GMT, mlbriggs > wrote:

> I hope the police are able to confiscate
> the gun so it won't happen to other animals.

I wish they would also realize that youth who torture animals often grow up
to be psychopaths. They should toss the little brats into a mental ward,
for everyone's sake.

--
Lynne

Helen Miles
March 24th 07, 10:41 AM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com

> Words fail me....
> Last night I went outside to call Ringo in & when there was no
> response, I knew in my gut that there was something Very Wrong Because
> Ringo is always here for dinner time....////

Many purrs for a full recovery for Ringo.

I went through this last July with HRFL Tiger and Miss Lily Whiskers. In
the space of about 2 days approximately 14 cats were shot with a BB gun
in the area I live. The RSPCA fortunately nailed the b*stard who did it
with the police because someone had seen him do it, and all he got was
community service and a slap on the wrist. Then my brother caught up
with the perp. Miss Lily Whiskers is his cat.

Fortunately both made a full recovery, and we are sending purrs that
Ringo does the same.

Helen M


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

zinzee
March 24th 07, 01:58 PM
On Mar 23, 12:21 pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
<snip>
>
> At around 8.10pm, my son Ross found him. He was lying on his side in
> the meadow under a hedge panting. Ross called me right away & when I
> reached him, I could see that Ringo was panting & he had blood all
> over his fur just under his left eye & just under his right fore leg.
> I didn't have to guess too long to see what had happened to him...
> He had been shot, but I wasn't sure what with.
>
<snip>
>
> Sheelagh

Oh my word, my eyes are welling up to great extent. I am so sorry...I
can't imagine how people can sleep at night sometimes. Ringo is lucky
to have such great parents and please know that our hearts and purrs
go out to you and your family. I pray for his speedy and full
recovery.

Devastating.

Sending my love,
Heather

bookie
March 24th 07, 07:00 PM
On 24 Mar, 00:31, Lynne > wrote:
> on Sat, 24 Mar 2007 00:26:43 GMT, mlbriggs > wrote:
>
> > I hope the police are able to confiscate
> > the gun so it won't happen to other animals.
>
> I wish they would also realize that youth who torture animals often grow up
> to be psychopaths. They should toss the little brats into a mental ward,
> for everyone's sake.
>
> --
> Lynne

i agree, although a little bit of corporal punishment, a god beating
or something, should be dished out first before they get incarcerated
for life.

any news on how ringo is doing sheelagh? have you been hanging out in
the meadow to catch the little sods?

after i read you first post i just squeezed my 2 furballs so tightly
(much disgruntled moaning from them for that, very undignified you
see), i couldn't bear it if anything happened to them.

bookie

bookie
March 24th 07, 07:05 PM
On 24 Mar, 10:41, "Helen Miles" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com
>
> > Words fail me....
> > Last night I went outside to call Ringo in & when there was no
> > response, I knew in my gut that there was something Very Wrong Because
> > Ringo is always here for dinner time....////
>
> Many purrs for a full recovery for Ringo.
>
> I went through this last July with HRFL Tiger and Miss Lily Whiskers. In
> the space of about 2 days approximately 14 cats were shot with a BB gun
> in the area I live. The RSPCA fortunately nailed the b*stard who did it
> with the police because someone had seen him do it, and all he got was
> community service and a slap on the wrist. Then my brother caught up
> with the perp. Miss Lily Whiskers is his cat.
>
> Fortunately both made a full recovery, and we are sending purrs that
> Ringo does the same.
>
> Helen M
>
> --
> Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server -http://www.Mailgate.ORG

what did your brother do? i hope he dished out some decent justice,
you really cannot depend onthe authorities to do it anymore. Do they
not realise that these people who do this to animals have no respect
for nay life and are highly like to go onto do simillar to human
beings? the police etc obviously think that humans are so much more
important than animals and pets, even the little *******s like those
who shoot at cats who in my opinion do not deserve to have the
protection of the police or any human rights at all, so you would
think that that argument might push them into doing something. rarely
does though which is a shame

please tell me your brother gave the guy a good kicking, it is just
what i would do, sod the repercussions

bookie

sheelagh
March 24th 07, 07:38 PM
On 23 Mar, 17:44, Lynne > wrote:
> on Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:36:21 GMT, "sheelagh"
>
> > wrote:
> > It
> > seems really wrong that they get away with it. You hardly ever hear of
> > anyone getting as far as court when things like this happen..
>
> We are seeing a turn to that tide here in the US. I hear more and more of
> stiff punishments for people who abuse animals. I hope England will come
> along on that front, too.
>
> Poor Ringo... this is so heartbreaking.
>
> --
> Lynne

Wow, I never realised that so many people would respond. I would love
to answer each post individually, but that would take me the rest of
the day at the rate that I type. so, what I will do is tell the you
the latest news that we have & take a snatch of postings out of here &
there of particular postings that stood out too.

Ringo had a fair night, but his blood count is looking a bit
miserable, & they are fairly worride about a post op infection, sited
around his left eye.
They tried to explain what they meant, but it is all too much to take
in at the moment. They gave me a slip of paper that has some names and
figure on it, but I can't make head nor tail of it. All I wanted to
know, was the bottom line, & apparently that means that they suspect
that he has a post op infection around the site of his left eye, which
might or might not mean that he has to go back to theater to have his
left eye removed.
It makes me sick to even think about it;o(

They tried to explain that his white count level has risen since
yesterday & that they are now treating him with a second antibiotic
that is more specific to the bug that he has. His level rose from 5600
pre op, to 9000 today They mentioned names like RBC, Hb, Hcv & PVC,
WBC,Granlocytes, Neutrophils, eosinophils, basophils, nongranulocytes,
limphocytes, & monocytes. Also, Htc MPV, & thrombocytes. I don't have
a clue what they are, but they tell me that it won't take very long to
find out what will happen, because he is receiving the drug
intravenously (& hydration fluids too), so they will know whether or
not they are working quite shortly.
If not, then he goes back to theater, as I have already signed the
consent forms in case they do need to it tonight.
I honestly feel physically ill even considering it...

We have just had a visit from both the police and the RSPCA. The
police arrived first to take a statement from Ross (because he is just
under 16, we have to be with him whilst he gives a statement to them)
The police told us that they were also going to see another family
who's house back onto the meadow, because they believe that they saw
the lads involved & heard the pellet gun being fired too. We are
hoping that they will be able to help the police to catch these sick
individuals. And the police think they have a fair idea of who it
might be too. ( I hope so!!)

The police had already been to the surgery to pick up the pellets from
them, so that if they can catch them, they will be able to match the
pellets to the gun..It sounds like a murder case..I had no idea that
they could match pellets to the gun that shot them, but they can, so I
hope they do!!

In total there were 5 separate cats shot in our village yesterday.
I was hoping to find it on the police site to show you all, but they
haven't put it on line yet, but when they do, I will post the link to
our incident. This is one other incident that happened yesterday,
which goes to show that it is not an isolated incident, but one of
many done by base born animals. Our cats have more brain power than
they do...
We have spoken to a couple of the families affected in the same way as
we were, & one of them has lost their beloved cat, because one of the
*FIVE* pellets penetrated her heart & she was found dead. I really do
feel for them. She was an only cat too, which must have made it all
the harder to bare. the other family got away fairly lightly with only
one pellet penetrating his hind right leg...

I can't help but wonder how many of the strays were shot
http://www.gloucestershire.police.uk/news/1761.html

> i am so angry too, whoever it was who did needs to have the living
> crap beaten out of them and fast. It may have been kids 'playing' in
> which case if they are let out and thinks it is ok top shoot at
> innocent creatures them they need to be punished for it, very severely
> as they obviously have not let learnt to respect life and their
> parents have obviously not bothered to teach them that kind of
> behaviour is utterly wrong.
Bookie

I have a feeling that is exactly what will happen if the lads find out
who it was. Our boys are incensed by what has happened to Ringo.
(they are nearly 13, nearly 16 & nearly 18)

They might give off the notion that they couldn't care less about the
cats, but we all know that Ringo is Ross's buddy... they eat together,
sleep together, & they purr together too. He shares tummy tickles with
Ross & he is devoted to his slave. It is a very mutual relationship
they have.

Last night, Ross was baying for blood. I have never seen him so angry
as I did then. If I had allowed him out, I know that he would have
gone searching & not been content until he found the right person to
wrap his baseball bat around their head, which doesn't help,. because
he would end up in more trouble than the moron who precipitated the
incidents

but then i would not wait about for them to do
> anything, I would just start hanging out in the meadow myself with a
> large cricket bat and a few big mates and dish out some justice of my
> own, my anger would not allow me to stay away.

That is exactly what they have done. Between about 5 lads, they have
been swapping shifts to see if anyone remotely similar or suspicious
turns up.. but this is a small village, & word gets round fairly fast,
& I would imagine the sick idiot has covered up his BB gun for another
day. I am hoping that the family who back up on the meadow might have
something to add to the pot in this instance.
I am more than certain that if they do find out who it is, they will
be waiting for him down a nice dark alleyway, however long it takes.
Time means nothing to them. If they have to wait, they will- I can't
say that I condone it, but I will do nothing to stop them either!



Sheelagh, don't blame yourself. Things are different in England and
it's
customary for cats to be indoor/outdoor. However, in light of what
has
happened to Ringo, I think you should start keeping them all in.
Perhaps
you can build a large outdoor cat run for them.
Lynne.

I think you are right there.
It is my fault that I let him out, but, as there is nothing I can gain
out of guilt, I will do something practical about it instead.

We are thinking of getting a company that we have considered before,
to put some anti cat escaping mesh around the garden. It is put on the
top of your existing fence @ a 45degree angle so that non e of the
cats can get out of the garden. That way they get the chance to be as
free as I can allow them to be without getting hurt by anything like
this ever again..

I went through this last July with HRFL Tiger and Miss Lily Whiskers.
In
the space of about 2 days approximately 14 cats were shot with a BB
gun
in the area I live. The RSPCA fortunately nailed the b*stard who did
it
with the police because someone had seen him do it, and all he got
was
community service and a slap on the wrist. Then my brother caught up
with the perp. Miss Lily Whiskers is his cat.
Helen

I am so glad that you puss cat was fine after recovery

I have every confidence that even if the perpetrators are not caught
by law or the RSPCA, that they will certainly get caught by the lads
instead.
People like these idiots tend to boast about the things they get away
with, but in this instance, they will never suspect what is
coming...They have never done anything like this before, but having
said that, they will never forget this & allow anyone to get away with
it either..

We want to thank all of you for the soothing purrs & words of sympathy
too. We have conveyed them to "O fat one", as he is affectionately
called from time to time, & I will post more news as we get it.

It is good to know that he is in the best hands possible, & that we
can call night or day & get an update on how everything is going.
They call us too if there is any news that we should know as well,
which is wonderful after some of our recent experiences.
We are optimistic regarding Ringo, but feel terrible that he might
loose the sight in one eye. I will find this one very hard to forgive
indeed
More news as we get it....
S;o)

22brix
March 24th 07, 08:24 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...

Oh I do hope Ringo is okay--maybe the second antibiotic will do the trick.
It's good he's where he can be monitored closely. The WBC's are white blood
cells and they increase with bacterial infections. Neutrophils are a type
of WBC's and typically are the type of WBC that is elevated with a bacterial
infection. Eosinophils, lymphocytes,, monocytes and basophils are other
types of WBC's. The RBC's are red blood cells, HCT is the hematocrit--it's
the volume of red blood cells in blood (also called packed cell volume or
PCV). HGB is hemoglobin, If these values are low among other things it
could indicate anemia. Thrombocytes are platelets which aid in clotting.
An infection can throw many of these values off. More than you cared to
know, I'm sure!

It sounds like the police are taking this fairly seriously if they are
asking for pellets--I hope there are really serious consequences for these
crimes. It is so sad that at least one of the cats died. If they catch the
kid(s) involved I wonder if there is anyway to get compensation for your vet
bills, either from the parents who should be legally liable for any damage
their kids cause or make the kid work (what a concept) to pay you back. Not
that it would make it better but at least you wouldn't be stuck with the
considerable cost. My heart goes out to you and your family, especially
Ross.

The cat fencing sounds like a great idea--I've never tried it but I have
heard other people who really liked it.

Take care,

Bonnie

sheelagh
March 25th 07, 12:59 AM
On 24 Mar, 20:24, "22brix" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> Oh I do hope Ringo is okay--maybe the second antibiotic will do the trick.
> It's good he's where he can be monitored closely. The WBC's are white blood
> cells and they increase with bacterial infections. Neutrophils are a type
> of WBC's and typically are the type of WBC that is elevated with a bacterial
> infection. Eosinophils, lymphocytes,, monocytes and basophils are other
> types of WBC's. The RBC's are red blood cells, HCT is the hematocrit--it's
> the volume of red blood cells in blood (also called packed cell volume or
> PCV). HGB is hemoglobin, If these values are low among other things it
> could indicate anemia. Thrombocytes are platelets which aid in clotting.
> An infection can throw many of these values off. More than you cared to
> know, I'm sure

Thank you Bonnie, I do appreciate your explanation, & having you
explained it on here allows me the time to write it all down, until it
is fixed in my mind, or I can refer back to when they are trying to
explain what they are doing with him. & the regular bloods and gas's
too, which they seem to do quite regularly for him...

Our latest report is that the infection is starting to respond with
the heavy cocktail of antibiotics that they are giving him
intravenously. His last count showed that his WBC has gone down this
time to 7500. It isn't a huge jump, but it is certainly in the right
direction.

And, having some faith in your Vet makes a huge difference too.
He takes the time to explain anything that you want to know, or you
don't understand.
He did offer to try and explain what the letters meant, but to be
perfectly honest, I just couldn't @t swallow it all @ the time, so I
just asked him to give me a print out, so that I could look @ it
later.. so not his fault, more mine when you look at it. It was
gobbledy goop @ the time, & all I wanted to know was what the bottom
line was.

It is the vets opinion that Ringo has probably lost the sight in the
left eye already, so loosing the eye would simply be unsightly, rather
than a great loss of vision.
It still makes me sick to think that there is a maniac out there,
trying to cover his tracks

> It sounds like the police are taking this fairly seriously if they
are
> asking for pellets--I hope there are really serious consequences for these
> crimes.
I agree. I have always thought in the past that they don't seem to
take this sort of offense seriously enough. But if they have already
been to the surgery to collect the pellets, then they obviously mean
business.
Perhaps if it had only been just Ringo, then they would have let it
go...However, with 5 separate incidences, I don't think they can
ignore it, or call it a domestic as they used to a few years back....

It is so sad that at least one of the cats died. If they catch the
> kid(s) involved I wonder if there is anyway to get compensation for your vet
> bills, either from the parents who should be legally liable for any damage
> their kids cause or make the kid work (what a concept) to pay you back. Not
> that it would make it better but at least you wouldn't be stuck with the
> considerable cost. My heart goes out to you and your family, especially
> Ross.

Same here. re:Ross.. he is livid, tearful(most unusual!!) devastated &
has accompanied me on every single visit we have made to go & see him
so far too. He is gutted too.
He told me that he simply couldn't sleep last night, because his furry
hot water bottle wasn't there to share his pillow with...
Tilly, the youngest one is also broken hearted too...
And I feel even more for the family that lost their cat altogether.
It must feel so terribly empty for them.... Poor family!!

We have been down to see him this evening, & he was slightly more
alert than yesterday ,or even this morning.. mind you he was sedated,
to try & keep him still & allow the stitches to heal.
I was told that they were going to fit him with of one of those
lampshade collars tomorrow, so that he can't nibble away on those
stitches when he gets out of the Big Boy's room..( a very possitive
remark there ;o)

I very much hope that they will make the parents pay for @ least a
portion of the vets bill. If they are under 16, I might as well forget
it, unless we happen to get a remorse filled parent (highly improbable
though.)
"Life sucks, then you die", someone once told me..I am beginning to
think they saw my future there..?
I am a bit worride about the money, but then again, I don't begrudge a
penny of it

I asked earlier today for them to give me a rough estimate of what the
bill will be, & the answer I got is, "how long is a a bit of sting"!!
- but as a rough guide, they think around the 500 mark ($1000)...
(OUCH!).
I do have a bit of help from the PDSA, which is a charity that helps
out people such as myself,& also a bit of a hand from the RSPCA
too..Any help is better than no help at all...

> The cat fencing sounds like a great idea--I've never tried it but I have
> heard other people who really liked it.
>
> Take care,
>
> Bonnie
I think that as long as I can find some testimonials to make sure that
it does indeed work, then it is worth investing in. I do have cat
pens, but it is not the same as being able to open the patio doors, so
that we get some fresh air in the summer, & allow the cats out there,
to roam the garden if they would like to..

(What am I talking about..? I already know that they would LOVE TO!!)

It also gives me peace of mind & cuts out the trips to the meadow
too.
I always believed that to be one of the safest place to allow them off
their harnesses & let them roam for a while under supervision..
I will never trust the place again though..
I can't help thinking that the idiot must live quite nearby because
most of the cats that have been shot, were off the same estate; all
of them Barr one!!

We have been throufh a really rough time with the cats, but I guess
the more that you have, the greater the chance that something will go
wrong. I just never epected it all kick off @ the same time, or even
one after another....

It has to be safer to keep him in the garden & home too~ Cyber was
right, I should never allowed him out at all...
He hates the pens, so we have to find another answer quite fast...
I also don't even like to think what would have happened to him if he
hadn't knocked on the door at Xmas.. no one wouold have missed him &
these sh*t He*ds would have got another way cat..
It makes me sick to think about it..
More as we hear it BTW,
S;o)

cindys
March 25th 07, 02:39 AM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
oups.com...


Our latest report is that the infection is starting to respond with
the heavy cocktail of antibiotics that they are giving him
intravenously. His last count showed that his WBC has gone down this
time to 7500. It isn't a huge jump, but it is certainly in the right
direction.

And, having some faith in your Vet makes a huge difference too.
He takes the time to explain anything that you want to know, or you
don't understand.
He did offer to try and explain what the letters meant, but to be
perfectly honest, I just couldn't @t swallow it all @ the time, so I
just asked him to give me a print out, so that I could look @ it
later.. so not his fault, more mine when you look at it. It was
gobbledy goop @ the time, & all I wanted to know was what the bottom
line was.

It is the vets opinion that Ringo has probably lost the sight in the
left eye already, so loosing the eye would simply be unsightly, rather
than a great loss of vision.
It still makes me sick to think that there is a maniac out there,
trying to cover his tracks
----------
Sheelagh, I couldn't sleep all night. I am grateful that Ringo is going to
survive, and I feel enraged that he will have lost sight in his left eye
because of these animals. Who gave these animals the right to go out and
harm a poor helpless creature, especially one as sweet and loving and
trusting as Ringo? I have been crying on and off all day. I told my husband
that if I had a BB gun and the animals who did this were standing in front
of me, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot them, right in the leg and the face as
they did to poor Ringo. I hope your sons find the guys who did it and beat
the cr*p out of them. I am glad to hear that Ringo is responding to the
antibiotics, and I'm sending along purrs and good wishes for his continued
recovery.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

bookie
March 25th 07, 02:45 AM
>
> I very much hope that they will make the parents pay for @ least a
> portion of the vets bill. If they are under 16, I might as well forget
> it, unless we happen to get a remorse filled parent (highly improbable
> though.)
> "Life sucks, then you die", someone once told me..I am beginning to
> think they saw my future there..?
> I am a bit worride about the money, but then again, I don't begrudge a
> penny of it
>
so when you do find out who it is and 'if' you get no compensation sue
the ****s, small claims court or something, you shoudl not have to
foot the bill for their acts of violence. there is a victim
compensation fund for things such as assault and suchlike, talk to the
police about it, DO NOT THIS ONE SLIP, make sure someone else pays for
this, why the hell shoudl you have to pay as you are hard up as it is,
make these vicious ****s pay for the vets bills

little ****s

Lynne
March 25th 07, 02:57 AM
on Sun, 25 Mar 2007 00:59:48 GMT, "sheelagh"
> wrote:

> More as we hear it BTW,

Sheelagh, thank you for keeping us updated on Ringo. Please know that he,
you, and your children are all in my thoughts. I just wish like hell that
there was something I could do to help. All I can manage is to shed tears
every time I think about him--which is quite often.

When I think of Ringo, I think of the bold, handsome boy who came knocking
on your door one night--literally. I think of the confident, affectionate
cat who charmed all the ladies and made himself right at home. To think of
him being shot and laying in the hospital, scared out of his mind and blind
in one eye...well it's simply overwhelming. I'm not even you, I don't even
really know him, so when I try to think of how you and your family must be
feeling, well, words escape me.

Hang in there Sheelagh. Know that you have an awful lot of healing
thoughts headed your way.

--
Lynne

22brix
March 25th 07, 03:02 AM
"bookie" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> >
>> I very much hope that they will make the parents pay for @ least a
>> portion of the vets bill. If they are under 16, I might as well forget
>> it, unless we happen to get a remorse filled parent (highly improbable
>> though.)
>> "Life sucks, then you die", someone once told me..I am beginning to
>> think they saw my future there..?
>> I am a bit worride about the money, but then again, I don't begrudge a
>> penny of it
>>
> so when you do find out who it is and 'if' you get no compensation sue
> the ****s, small claims court or something, you shoudl not have to
> foot the bill for their acts of violence. there is a victim
> compensation fund for things such as assault and suchlike, talk to the
> police about it, DO NOT THIS ONE SLIP, make sure someone else pays for
> this, why the hell shoudl you have to pay as you are hard up as it is,
> make these vicious ****s pay for the vets bills
>
> little ****s
>

Sheelagh,

I totally agree with Bookie--you should NOT have to pay for this.

Bonnie

cindys
March 25th 07, 03:22 AM
"bookie" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> >
>> I very much hope that they will make the parents pay for @ least a
>> portion of the vets bill. If they are under 16, I might as well forget
>> it, unless we happen to get a remorse filled parent (highly improbable
>> though.)
>> "Life sucks, then you die", someone once told me..I am beginning to
>> think they saw my future there..?
>> I am a bit worride about the money, but then again, I don't begrudge a
>> penny of it
>>
> so when you do find out who it is and 'if' you get no compensation sue
> the ****s, small claims court or something, you shoudl not have to
> foot the bill for their acts of violence. there is a victim
> compensation fund for things such as assault and suchlike, talk to the
> police about it, DO NOT THIS ONE SLIP, make sure someone else pays for
> this, why the hell shoudl you have to pay as you are hard up as it is,
> make these vicious ****s pay for the vets bills
>
> little ****s
-----------
I agree. In the USA, a civil/damages suit is separate from criminal charges.
Even after OJ Simpson was acquitted of murder, the families of the victims
were able to sue him. So, even if there is no criminal case against the
animals who shot Ringo and the other cats, you can go after them personally
for money. It won't bring Ringo's left eye back but at least it will hurt
them in their pocketbooks, real bad, especially if the families of all the
victims do this together, and it should hopefully offset some of your
medical bills. If the perpetrators are underage, their parents may have to
cough up a couple thousand pounds.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

cindys
March 25th 07, 03:23 AM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> on Sun, 25 Mar 2007 00:59:48 GMT, "sheelagh"
> > wrote:
>
>> More as we hear it BTW,
>
> Sheelagh, thank you for keeping us updated on Ringo. Please know that he,
> you, and your children are all in my thoughts. I just wish like hell that
> there was something I could do to help. All I can manage is to shed tears
> every time I think about him--which is quite often.

Me too.
>
> When I think of Ringo, I think of the bold, handsome boy who came knocking
> on your door one night--literally. I think of the confident, affectionate
> cat who charmed all the ladies and made himself right at home. To think
> of
> him being shot and laying in the hospital, scared out of his mind and
> blind
> in one eye...well it's simply overwhelming. I'm not even you, I don't
> even
> really know him, so when I try to think of how you and your family must be
> feeling, well, words escape me.

My feelings exactly.
>
> Hang in there Sheelagh. Know that you have an awful lot of healing
> thoughts headed your way.

From my house too.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

sheelagh
March 25th 07, 06:09 AM
On 25 Mar, 02:57, Lynne > wrote:
> on Sun, 25 Mar 2007 00:59:48 GMT, "sheelagh"
>
> > wrote:
> > More as we hear it BTW,
>
> Sheelagh, thank you for keeping us updated on Ringo. Please know that he,
> you, and your children are all in my thoughts. I just wish like hell that
> there was something I could do to help. All I can manage is to shed tears
> every time I think about him--which is quite often.

I feel for everyone on this one. I know he is only a moggie, but as
you say, he captured our hearts completely that day he knocked on the
door & uttered the words, "Well hello you, I have come to stay with
you, you lucky thing.. where is the food bowl by the way madame"??!
there is nothing that you can do, but I do appreciate your sentiment &
thank you all for it too.
>
> When I think of Ringo, I think of the bold, handsome boy who came knocking
> on your door one night--literally. I think of the confident, affectionate
> cat who charmed all the ladies and made himself right at home. To think of
> him being shot and laying in the hospital, scared out of his mind and blind
> in one eye...well it's simply overwhelming. I'm not even you, I don't even
> really know him, so when I try to think of how you and your family must be
> feeling, well, words escape me.

LOL, You are quite right, he did do exactly that...!!
He didn't care a fig what the other cats thought of him & utterly
ignored them as they look @ him in utter shock....
You could almost see the cogs working n their little heads thinking,
OMG, what have we got here?

After wolfing down a huge bowl full left down to feed 4 cats, then
looked around for the most comfy chair he could find, & kept looking
until he found it....
He was & is such a confident cat. I hope that this doesn't ruin his
confidence, because it is such a large part of his character. He
exudes confidence & makes you feel @ ease by just being in his
company.

If I feel anything, it is anger of the inability of being everywhere @
once. I have hardly had time to see the kittens, much less their
mummy, yet I feel that he needs the attention the most, right now. It
is 05.43 in the UK, & I have just rung the surgery to find out what
his latest bloods are & he has come down a further 200- little but
significant. I dread the thought of him going back to theater, but the
way things are going, he is looking good.... the nurse I just spoke to
didn't mind me calling now at all. In fact she was quite chatty about
him (he does have that touch with the ladies, doesn't he, lol;o)
In fact, he has been chatting them up of course. He always has had the
gift of the gab as we say over her (It just means that he has
wonderful chat up lines, & even better way of getting his own way..He
allowed them to tickle his ears & responded very well to a tiny bit of
ice cream, licking it off her fingers....
That's our Ringo...!!
It makes me all the more aware how lucky we are to have him if that
Makes any sense..?
I asked what his eye will look like *if* things continue the way they
have, & the answer to that is, "the same, but he won't have sight in
that eye".

Strangely enough, I am blind in my left eye, so I can appreciate how
he will feel, but I can't remember it any other way, because I lost
the sight in it when I was 4 years old.
You learn to compensate for it, Other senses become stronger, such as
hearing & almost being aware that you need to look around further.

> Hang in there Sheelagh. Know that you have an awful lot of healing
> thoughts headed your way.
>
> --
> Lynne
Thank you very much. It does help having someone to share him with
presently too. I can't imagine how I would vent my feelings if I had
no one around to share this with..


I totally agree with Bookie--you should NOT have to pay for this.
Bonnie

I will...It is more a question of having to right now

:(. For the surgery's sake I will & must pay the bill as best I can),

until they find out who did this to him. The moment I find out who did
this to terrible thing to him, I intend to take it to the small claims
court (they deal with any debit under 1000).. & I intend to go for
the money it has cost me out of pocket too. The silly things such as
petrol to visit him & phone bill for having to call them, not to
mention any meds that he might have to come home on.
It was a hateful thing to do, & I intend to name and shamed them where
possible. it was a despicable act to do to a cat
(Especially our Cheshire cat!!;o)
S;o)
More news as we get it of course

Shirley Eugest
March 25th 07, 06:50 AM
On Mar 23, 12:21 pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> Words fail me....
> Last night I went outside to call Ringo in & when there was no
> response, I knew in my gut that there was something Very Wrong Because
> Ringo is always here for dinner time....
>
> I searched the front of the house, then out the back, but there was no
> Ringo.
> I decided to leave it half an hour but when the time was up, we set
> out on a search party to see where he was hanging out & why he had not
> simply come home when we called him. By this time I was in near
> frantic panic, because it is soooo out of character....
>
> Our neighbors kids joined in the search,& by 7.15pm we had over 8
> people looking for him - he is ever such a popular puss because he is
> so friendly & will allow anyone to give him tunny tickles..
> We continued to search, & kept in contact by mobile (cell phone!)
>
> At around 8.10pm, my son Ross found him. He was lying on his side in
> the meadow under a hedge panting. Ross called me right away & when I
> reached him, I could see that Ringo was panting & he had blood all
> over his fur just under his left eye & just under his right fore leg.
> I didn't have to guess too long to see what had happened to him...
> He had been shot, but I wasn't sure what with.
>
> Paul joined me, & we lifted him up onto a board & covered him with a
> blanket. I called the vet from the meadow & asked if he would see
> Ringo, & he told us to handle whim with care & bring him straight down
> there.
> It was obvious that Ringo was in shock & shivering too. I had no idea
> how long he had lain there, but the last time I could remember seeing
> him, was around 5.30pm, so we don't know what time this had happened.
> You wouldn't believe how fast my trusty old Ford escort shot down the
> motorway, I would never have believed it could go that fast,
> seriously!!
>
> On arrival, we were met, & he was seen straight away. I went into the
> consultation room with him, & the vet had a quick look & told me that
> he had to get an xray done as fast as possible, & then onto theater if
> nessacery to get the pellets out, because he was conerned that the
> pellet might have penetrated some of his organs & the fear of him
> dying of shock was quite possible, so they wanted to get him seen to
> as fast as possible, so we left them to get on with it.
>
> It is such a terrible feeling You feel so helpless;o(
>
> The vet already had assisting staff to help him because they have a 24
> hour facility, so they were able to proceed immediately...
> We were told to go home and that they would call us as soon as they
> had any news for us. Just over an hour and a half later, we got a call
> to say that Ringo had got through the surgery. They managed to get the
> pellet out of his foreleg & it was logged into his bone, & also that
> he had got the pellet out of his jaw, but he wasn't sure if Ringo lost
> his sight in his out of his left eye, because it was logged so near to
> the optic nerve that he did consider leaving it in case he caused more
> damage than was already done. He also told us that the one in his leg
> was shot at almost blank rang too
>
> As you can imagine, we shot down there to see him, but he was very
> sedated, & didn't manage much more than a hand lick & an ear tickle.
> I Can't describe the RAGE that we feel, knowing that someone who lives
> near us had thought it funny to shoot him ,quite possibly knowing that
> it was our cat too..
> Whilst waiting for Ringo to come out of surgery, we called the police
> to alert them to the fact that we have a loose canon in the
> neighborhood, & we also called the RSPCA to alert them too, only to
> find out that Ringo was only one of four cats who had been shot
> yesterday on our nearest estate.
> I feel sick to the pit of my stomach knowing that someone could
> possibly do that to a poor defenseless cat, who has done them no harm
> at all. How could anyone shoot a cat at blank range? It wouldn't
> surprise me if it turns out to be a child who's parents have bought it
> for them as a gift.....
>
> THEY SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL...!!!!!
> Sorry, but I feel so ANGRY
>
> Ringo is still in special care room, but doing much better today. He
> remains sedated & is responding well. He still has his hydration drip
> in his other fore leg, but he did try to lap some water earlier today.
> He looks like a mini mummy with all of the bandages round his head and
> his leg where they splinted him & strapped him under his fore leg..
>
> My kids are keeping their ears open to see if they can find out who
> has a new BB pellet gun recently, Or who was in the meadow last night
> around the same time last night. No doubt even if we do find out how
> it was, the worst that will happen is that they *MIGHT* get a rap on
> the knuckles & a public caution. In fact the best thing we could hope
> for, is for the police to remeove the gun to stop it happening
> again..If we are lucky, that is
> Whats to stop them going straight out to buy another one tomorrow..?
> I hope that I don't find out who did it, because right now, I am too
> angry to deal with it
> The boys used to wonder why I wouldn't allow them to have a BB gun, &
> yesterday the learnt exactly why..not one of them wants one now. I
> think that they are as outraged as we are
>
> Sheelagh

I'm sure he'll be delicious. Stick a crowbar in your wallet and buy
another one.

sheelagh
March 25th 07, 06:11 PM
> Sheelagh, I couldn't sleep all night. I am grateful that Ringo is going to
> survive, and I feel enraged that he will have lost sight in his left eye
> because of these animals. Who gave these animals the right to go out and
> harm a poor helpless creature, especially one as sweet and loving and
> trusting as Ringo? I have been crying on and off all day. I told my husband
> that if I had a BB gun and the animals who did this were standing in front
> of me, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot them, right in the leg and the face as
> they did to poor Ringo. I hope your sons find the guys who did it and beat
> the cr*p out of them. I am glad to hear that Ringo is responding to the
> antibiotics, and I'm sending along purrs and good wishes for his continued
> recovery.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S

..My son Ross, & I have just returned from seeing Ringo again & we have
even more good news to share. Ringo is responding very well to
treatment, & his white count has gone down to 6000. He has been
removed from the drip that was re hydrating him & he found time to
have some breakfast this morning too;o)
Ross is delighted!!

He is now on oral antibiotics and he has tolerated them for the last
12 hours, so they have removed him from the care room, & now he is in
the Big Boy's room. I can't tell you how delighted we are & how
privileged & lucky we feel too.
It could have gone the wrong way as we feared & had to go back to
surgery, but he has responded to treatment so well that we are now
looking at a go home date , rather than a further surgery day, which
is fantastic.
Eating drinking and fairly stable, what more could we ask for...
(apart from the names of the imbeciles that did it to him of course!!)

In my heart I can't help feeling a little guilty though, for the
family who lost their cat, Wizard. I know that there is nothing that I
could have done to change it for the family, but feeling on such a
high feels wrong when I think of them...
They called to see us this morning to talk about their cat & where he
was found dead, only about 800 yards away from Ringo, just out of the
meadow.
I don't like to mention it just yet, but after talking to the others,
we were thinking of offering one of Tiggy's kittens when they are old
enough, if they would like one of course.
Another issue is money. We need a certain amount to be able to cover
the vet bills, because even though we are new to the paractise, they
have never refused treatment to any of our cats when we needed it.
The kittens will just about cover the bills, with one kitten to spare,
so I will ask them nearer the time, if they would like to look at them
(BTW, they are doing fine;o)

The other piece of good news (we hope...), is that the village Bobby
turned up this morning as well (our local village police officer), to
let us know that they have a couple of names that have been put
forward. We were rather hoping that he might divulge them with us, but
he can't of course.

However, he did say that "when" *they* were charged with this crime,
that he would pull the whole weight of the law to bear down on them.
His exact words were, "this is one of the worst cases of blatant abuse
of an under age in charge of an offensive weapon".. so it does sound
like it was children out with a BB gun as we first suspected.
I was wondering if Bookie can guide me with the law on this one? She
is ever so good with things like Bi laws & suchlike....

All of the kids are back to school tomorrow, so I have counciled Ross
that even if he does find out exactly who did it, he is to take no
action at all against them, however angry he feels. We live in a
fairly small community, so the truth always gets out in the end.

If Ross really wants to see justice done, then he must allow the law
to take it's course & pray for justice to be seen.
If he doesn't get the answer he is looking for, then he look for an
alternative way to find it.
Ross has decided that he is going to be the one that take this case to
court. Because of new laws in the UK, he can do so, & Ringo is his
cat.
I have agreed to support him all the way too.

This incident has broken his heart, & he isn't really a child to
normally show his emotions.. but he couldn't take in why this happened
to Ringo &he has cried till he is empty inside. The news of Ringo
today has definately helped him, as well as the cuddles & nose buts &
neck tickles too.
Ringo is one hell of a cat to come through this & we feel proud to say
that he owns us...
S;o)
PS: Thank you all for your support too

22brix
March 25th 07, 07:06 PM
Happy dances all over the house!! Hopefully you'll have your entire herd
back at home very soon! Is Ringo still on pain meds? Several years ago we
were taking care of a semi-feral kitty with a previously damaged eye. When
the vets spayed her they removed her eye as well (because she was squinting
all the time and they felt she was in pain). She was sent home with us with
pain meds for several days--I think it (the pain meds) sped up her healing.

Is Tiggy home yet? I hope you didn't have two of them hospitalized at the
same time.

Wishing all of you a speedy recovery, physical and emotional as well!

Bonnie


"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> .My son Ross, & I have just returned from seeing Ringo again & we have
> even more good news to share. Ringo is responding very well to
> treatment, & his white count has gone down to 6000. He has been
> removed from the drip that was re hydrating him & he found time to
> have some breakfast this morning too;o)
> Ross is delighted!!
>
> He is now on oral antibiotics and he has tolerated them for the last
> 12 hours, so they have removed him from the care room, & now he is in
> the Big Boy's room. I can't tell you how delighted we are & how
> privileged & lucky we feel too.
> It could have gone the wrong way as we feared & had to go back to
> surgery, but he has responded to treatment so well that we are now
> looking at a go home date , rather than a further surgery day, which
> is fantastic.
> Eating drinking and fairly stable, what more could we ask for...
> (apart from the names of the imbeciles that did it to him of course!!)
>
> In my heart I can't help feeling a little guilty though, for the
> family who lost their cat, Wizard. I know that there is nothing that I
> could have done to change it for the family, but feeling on such a
> high feels wrong when I think of them...
> They called to see us this morning to talk about their cat & where he
> was found dead, only about 800 yards away from Ringo, just out of the
> meadow.
> I don't like to mention it just yet, but after talking to the others,
> we were thinking of offering one of Tiggy's kittens when they are old
> enough, if they would like one of course.
> Another issue is money. We need a certain amount to be able to cover
> the vet bills, because even though we are new to the paractise, they
> have never refused treatment to any of our cats when we needed it.
> The kittens will just about cover the bills, with one kitten to spare,
> so I will ask them nearer the time, if they would like to look at them
> (BTW, they are doing fine;o)
>
> The other piece of good news (we hope...), is that the village Bobby
> turned up this morning as well (our local village police officer), to
> let us know that they have a couple of names that have been put
> forward. We were rather hoping that he might divulge them with us, but
> he can't of course.
>
> However, he did say that "when" *they* were charged with this crime,
> that he would pull the whole weight of the law to bear down on them.
> His exact words were, "this is one of the worst cases of blatant abuse
> of an under age in charge of an offensive weapon".. so it does sound
> like it was children out with a BB gun as we first suspected.
> I was wondering if Bookie can guide me with the law on this one? She
> is ever so good with things like Bi laws & suchlike....
>
> All of the kids are back to school tomorrow, so I have counciled Ross
> that even if he does find out exactly who did it, he is to take no
> action at all against them, however angry he feels. We live in a
> fairly small community, so the truth always gets out in the end.
>
> If Ross really wants to see justice done, then he must allow the law
> to take it's course & pray for justice to be seen.
> If he doesn't get the answer he is looking for, then he look for an
> alternative way to find it.
> Ross has decided that he is going to be the one that take this case to
> court. Because of new laws in the UK, he can do so, & Ringo is his
> cat.
> I have agreed to support him all the way too.
>
> This incident has broken his heart, & he isn't really a child to
> normally show his emotions.. but he couldn't take in why this happened
> to Ringo &he has cried till he is empty inside. The news of Ringo
> today has definately helped him, as well as the cuddles & nose buts &
> neck tickles too.
> Ringo is one hell of a cat to come through this & we feel proud to say
> that he owns us...
> S;o)
> PS: Thank you all for your support too
>
>

March 25th 07, 07:07 PM
On Mar 24, 8:05 pm, "bookie" > wrote:
> On 24 Mar, 10:41, "Helen Miles" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com
>
> > > Words fail me....
> > > Last night I went outside to call Ringo in & when there was no
> > > response, I knew in my gut that there was something Very Wrong Because
> > > Ringo is always here for dinner time....////
>
> > Many purrs for a full recovery for Ringo.
>
> > I went through this last July with HRFL Tiger and Miss Lily Whiskers. In
> > the space of about 2 days approximately 14 cats were shot with a BB gun
> > in the area I live. The RSPCA fortunately nailed the b*stard who did it
> > with the police because someone had seen him do it, and all he got was
> > community service and a slap on the wrist. Then my brother caught up
> > with the perp. Miss Lily Whiskers is his cat.
>
> > Fortunately both made a full recovery, and we are sending purrs that
> > Ringo does the same.
>
> > Helen M
>
> > --
> > Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server -http://www.Mailgate.ORG
>
> what did your brother do? i hope he dished out some decent justice,
> you really cannot depend onthe authorities to do it anymore. Do they
> not realise that these people who do this to animals have no respect
> for nay life and are highly like to go onto do simillar to human
> beings? the police etc obviously think that humans are so much more
> important than animals and pets, even the little *******s like those
> who shoot at cats who in my opinion do not deserve to have the
> protection of the police or any human rights at all, so you would
> think that that argument might push them into doing something. rarely
> does though which is a shame
>
> please tell me your brother gave the guy a good kicking, it is just
> what i would do, sod the repercussions
>
> bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

What these idiots need is the best kicking they have ever had to help
them understand that you don't use cats as target practise.

Keep an eye on the field if possible, then jump them as soon as you
catch them doing it again.. because they will do it, believe me. Once
they have had a taste for it, they will come back to try it again.

The same thing happened to our cat two years ago, & he narrowly
escaped death & it cost us just under a 1000 in vets bills too. Worth
every penny, but so much more pleasing to know that they got some real
justice when my husband caught up with the two fellows involved & beat
the hell out of them.

We did eventually get them to court, & they were forced to pay the
entire vet's bill.
I can't help but wonder why two grown men found it pleasing to shoot
my poor cat.
Sicko's!
Best of luck
K.

Lynne
March 25th 07, 09:20 PM
on Sun, 25 Mar 2007 17:11:01 GMT, "sheelagh"
> wrote:

> Ringo is one hell of a cat to come through this & we feel proud to say
> that he owns us...

Sheelagh, I am SO relieved that Ringo is improving--relieved for him and
for all of your family. Thank you so much for taking the time to let us
know how he and all of you are faring.

I hope the police find the little *******s who did this and make their
parents pay some hefty fines (at a minimum). I'm glad you have
discouraged your son from retaliating. It would be a horrible tragedy if
his future is negatively effected by all of this, and beating the snot
out of someone (well, getting caught...) could certainly be a problem for
him. As satisfying as it would be to wrap a bat around someone's face
for this, it's not worth the repurcussions. And in the end, it wouldn't
help you or Ross even if he did get away with it. Take the high road,
and be better than these cretins.

I'm continuing to send healing thoughts Ringo's way and look forward to
hearing about his complete recovery. I think you will be surprised at
how fast he will adapt to the loss of vision in one eye, once he's clear
of the infection, out of pain and back at his home-sweet-home.

--
Lynne

bookie
March 25th 07, 11:16 PM
On 25 Mar, 06:09, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 25 Mar, 02:57, Lynne > wrote:
>
> > on Sun, 25 Mar 2007 00:59:48 GMT, "sheelagh"
>
> > > wrote:
> > > More as we hear it BTW,
>
> > Sheelagh, thank you for keeping us updated on Ringo. Please know that he,
> > you, and your children are all in my thoughts. I just wish like hell that
> > there was something I could do to help. All I can manage is to shed tears
> > every time I think about him--which is quite often.
>
> I feel for everyone on this one. I know he is only a moggie, but as
> you say, he captured our hearts completely that day he knocked on the
> door & uttered the words, "Well hello you, I have come to stay with
> you, you lucky thing.. where is the food bowl by the way madame"??!
> there is nothing that you can do, but I do appreciate your sentiment &
> thank you all for it too.
>
>
>
> > When I think of Ringo, I think of the bold, handsome boy who came knocking
> > on your door one night--literally. I think of the confident, affectionate
> > cat who charmed all the ladies and made himself right at home. To think of
> > him being shot and laying in the hospital, scared out of his mind and blind
> > in one eye...well it's simply overwhelming. I'm not even you, I don't even
> > really know him, so when I try to think of how you and your family must be
> > feeling, well, words escape me.
>
> LOL, You are quite right, he did do exactly that...!!
> He didn't care a fig what the other cats thought of him & utterly
> ignored them as they look @ him in utter shock....
> You could almost see the cogs working n their little heads thinking,
> OMG, what have we got here?
>
> After wolfing down a huge bowl full left down to feed 4 cats, then
> looked around for the most comfy chair he could find, & kept looking
> until he found it....
> He was & is such a confident cat. I hope that this doesn't ruin his
> confidence, because it is such a large part of his character. He
> exudes confidence & makes you feel @ ease by just being in his
> company.
>
> If I feel anything, it is anger of the inability of being everywhere @
> once. I have hardly had time to see the kittens, much less their
> mummy, yet I feel that he needs the attention the most, right now. It
> is 05.43 in the UK, & I have just rung the surgery to find out what
> his latest bloods are & he has come down a further 200- little but
> significant. I dread the thought of him going back to theater, but the
> way things are going, he is looking good.... the nurse I just spoke to
> didn't mind me calling now at all. In fact she was quite chatty about
> him (he does have that touch with the ladies, doesn't he, lol;o)
> In fact, he has been chatting them up of course. He always has had the
> gift of the gab as we say over her (It just means that he has
> wonderful chat up lines, & even better way of getting his own way..He
> allowed them to tickle his ears & responded very well to a tiny bit of
> ice cream, licking it off her fingers....
> That's our Ringo...!!
> It makes me all the more aware how lucky we are to have him if that
> Makes any sense..?
> I asked what his eye will look like *if* things continue the way they
> have, & the answer to that is, "the same, but he won't have sight in
> that eye".
>
> Strangely enough, I am blind in my left eye, so I can appreciate how
> he will feel, but I can't remember it any other way, because I lost
> the sight in it when I was 4 years old.
> You learn to compensate for it, Other senses become stronger, such as
> hearing & almost being aware that you need to look around further.
>
> > Hang in there Sheelagh. Know that you have an awful lot of healing
> > thoughts headed your way.
>
> > --
> > Lynne
>
> Thank you very much. It does help having someone to share him with
> presently too. I can't imagine how I would vent my feelings if I had
> no one around to share this with..
>
> I totally agree with Bookie--you should NOT have to pay for this.
> Bonnie
>
> I will...It is more a question of having to right now
>
> :(. For the surgery's sake I will & must pay the bill as best I can),
>
> until they find out who did this to him. The moment I find out who did
> this to terrible thing to him, I intend to take it to the small claims
> court (they deal with any debit under 1000).. & I intend to go for
> the money it has cost me out of pocket too. The silly things such as
> petrol to visit him & phone bill for having to call them, not to
> mention any meds that he might have to come home on.
> It was a hateful thing to do, & I intend to name and shamed them where
> possible. it was a despicable act to do to a cat
> (Especially our Cheshire cat!!;o)
> S;o)
> More news as we get it of course

yes please add up everything you have had to pay for, even the little
things, keep all receipts, yes you will have to pay for these things
now but you can claijm al this back later through the courts and when
you sue the little ****s who did this to him.

having to open their pockets and havign to actually pay in cold hard
cash for what they have done may be the only way these nasty little
sods will be taught a lesson, you have to hit them where it hurts and
that may well be in the wallet for these evil little ****s.

don;t let this one go

many purrs from my 2 ( purrs from jessie on my bed, and terri from
behind the long curtains inthe dining room) again for ringo and the
other poor cats who have been shot. poor ringo does not deserve this
at all, the people who did this must be stopped (and beaten
senseless)

bookie

bookie
March 25th 07, 11:19 PM
On 25 Mar, 19:07, wrote:
> On Mar 24, 8:05 pm, "bookie" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 24 Mar, 10:41, "Helen Miles" > wrote:
>
> > > "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> > ups.com
>
> > > > Words fail me....
> > > > Last night I went outside to call Ringo in & when there was no
> > > > response, I knew in my gut that there was something Very Wrong Because
> > > > Ringo is always here for dinner time....////
>
> > > Many purrs for a full recovery for Ringo.
>
> > > I went through this last July with HRFL Tiger and Miss Lily Whiskers. In
> > > the space of about 2 days approximately 14 cats were shot with a BB gun
> > > in the area I live. The RSPCA fortunately nailed the b*stard who did it
> > > with the police because someone had seen him do it, and all he got was
> > > community service and a slap on the wrist. Then my brother caught up
> > > with the perp. Miss Lily Whiskers is his cat.
>
> > > Fortunately both made a full recovery, and we are sending purrs that
> > > Ringo does the same.
>
> > > Helen M
>
> > > --
> > > Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server -http://www.Mailgate.ORG
>
> > what did your brother do? i hope he dished out some decent justice,
> > you really cannot depend onthe authorities to do it anymore. Do they
> > not realise that these people who do this to animals have no respect
> > for nay life and are highly like to go onto do simillar to human
> > beings? the police etc obviously think that humans are so much more
> > important than animals and pets, even the little *******s like those
> > who shoot at cats who in my opinion do not deserve to have the
> > protection of the police or any human rights at all, so you would
> > think that that argument might push them into doing something. rarely
> > does though which is a shame
>
> > please tell me your brother gave the guy a good kicking, it is just
> > what i would do, sod the repercussions
>
> > bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> What these idiots need is the best kicking they have ever had to help
> them understand that you don't use cats as target practise.
>
> Keep an eye on the field if possible, then jump them as soon as you
> catch them doing it again.. because they will do it, believe me. Once
> they have had a taste for it, they will come back to try it again.
>
> The same thing happened to our cat two years ago, & he narrowly
> escaped death & it cost us just under a 1000 in vets bills too. Worth
> every penny, but so much more pleasing to know that they got some real
> justice when my husband caught up with the two fellows involved & beat
> the hell out of them.
>
good for him! he is my hero! you can tell him that too! bit of street
justice is what these ****s deserve


> We did eventually get them to court, & they were forced to pay the
> entire vet's bill.

good, hitting them where it really hurts them, in the wallet, make
them understand some of the true cost of their actions.

> I can't help but wonder why two grown men found it pleasing to shoot
> my poor cat.

because they are ignorant little ****s, uneducated and intellectually
subnormal, should have been strangled at birth

bookie>
> - Show quoted text -

sheelagh
March 26th 07, 04:43 PM
On 25 Mar, 21:20, Lynne > wrote:
> on Sun, 25 Mar 2007 17:11:01 GMT, "sheelagh"
>
> > wrote:
> > Ringo is one hell of a cat to come through this & we feel proud to say
> > that he owns us...

> Sheelagh, I am SO relieved that Ringo is improving--relieved for him and
> for all of your family. Thank you so much for taking the time to let us
> know how he and all of you are faring.

We are fine now that we know that he is going to make it through this
one.
Our ultimate nightmare was that he might not make it after speaking to
the family that lost their cat.

And no problems posting, it is nice to have someone to share it with
when you are awake @ 4am because you can't sleep for worry about
him,..
So thanks to all of you too. You have all been a wonderful support to
us...

> I hope the police find the little *******s who did this and make their
> parents pay some hefty fines (at a minimum). I'm glad you have
> discouraged your son from retaliating. It would be a horrible tragedy if
> his future is negatively effected by all of this, and beating the snot
> out of someone (well, getting caught...) could certainly be a problem for
> him. As satisfying as it would be to wrap a bat around someone's face
> for this, it's not worth the repurcussions. And in the end, it wouldn't
> help you or Ross even if he did get away with it. Take the high road,
> and be better than these cretins.

That was my thought too regarding it affecting Ross's future. He has
managed to keep a clean record until now, so it would be a shame to
tarnish it now, however much anger he feels about it all.

When you bare in mind that he has a job to go straight into the day he
leaves school if he wants it, then it would be a shame to throw that
chance away just because he has a criminal record!

He tells that it is not fair, but my answer to that one is life is not
fair!!
I have no doubt at all in my mind that what comes around will also go
around.. their comeuppance will come to them

I have every intention of taking the little cretins for every single
penny that it has cost us, in money as well as emotional stress too

> I'm continuing to send healing thoughts Ringo's way and look forward to
> hearing about his complete recovery. I think you will be surprised at
> how fast he will adapt to the loss of vision in one eye, once he's clear
> of the infection, out of pain and back at his home-sweet-home.

We saw his face for the first time today, because we arrived whilst
they were changing his dressing. Initially, they left the wound open
but stitched. However, when it started to weep, they had to cover it
with a special dressing that works one way; the seepage turns into
gel, & the wound remains dry & allows the air to circulate under it
too...

I have to admit that we were quite shocked, because he is not only
shaved there, but it is still swollen as well. I thought it looked
big, but assumed it was the bandaging...It never occurred to me that
it was the swelling!
The wound has nearly stopped weeping now & with any luck bandages
might come off tomorrow altogether.
I am sure that he will manage fine without the eye. He won't be
allowed near any more possible dangers ever again. It has been an
expensive lesson, but a well learnt one too.

He is still taking oral antibiotics, Is not even remotely impressed
with the collar that stops him nibbling under his leg that is still
splinted..
Today he was allowed out of his pen & we were allowed to give him
proper tummy tickles & loves. it was wonderful & made me smile like
the Cheshire cat out of Alice in wonderland...
> --
> Lynne

On 25 Mar, 19:06, "22brix" > wrote:
> Happy dances all over the house!! Hopefully you'll have your entire herd

> back at home very soon! Yes, we hope so too

Is Ringo still on pain meds?
?Yes he is, & I understand that he will come home on them too..

Several years ago we
> were taking care of a semi-feral kitty with a previously damaged eye. When
> the vets spayed her they removed her eye as well (because she was squinting
> all the time and they felt she was in pain). She was sent home with us with
> pain meds for several days--I think it (the pain meds) sped up her healing.

Yes, we hope so too, & It will be nice not having to visit to two
separate places every day as well. We have the kittens a few miles
away & Ringo in the nearest market town around 10 miles away.

> Is Tiggy home yet? I hope you didn't have two of them hospitalized at the
> same time.

Thankfully no. Tiggy came home the day after Pyometra op on pain meds
too. She has the entire new extension on the side of the house to
herself, including food, her own bathroom facilities & &our bed to
sleep on too. She uses the bedside table to jump on, then from there,
she gets to the bed.
All we are waiting for now, are the kittens. I don't think it would be
a good idea to bring them home just yet, if at all.
I worry that something might happen to them after that terrible Fcv
outbreak we had..I miss them, but I have to what is best for the
kittens, rather than what I would like to do...
I do get to see them quite often, but it is not the same as having
them at home.
we are starting to see what colours we have now. I am off to see them
in an hour or so

She seems fine now, but looks like she needs a few extra calories on
her waistline. I am giving her kitten food dry & chunks too, some
occasional fresh minced beef & cimmi cat milk kitty formula, to try
and pack some weight back on her
> Wishing all of you a speedy recovery, physical and emotional as well!
Thank you very much indeed;o)
> Bonnie
Thanks from us all too
S;o)

sheelagh
March 26th 07, 04:54 PM
On 25 Mar, 23:19, "bookie" > wrote:
> On 25 Mar, 19:07, wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 24, 8:05 pm, "bookie" > wrote:
>
> > > On 24 Mar, 10:41, "Helen Miles" > wrote:
>
> > > > "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> > > ups.com
>
> > > > > Words fail me....
> > > > > Last night I went outside to call Ringo in & when there was no
> > > > > response, I knew in my gut that there was something Very Wrong Because
> > > > > Ringo is always here for dinner time....////
>
> > > > Many purrs for a full recovery for Ringo.
>
> > > > I went through this last July with HRFL Tiger and Miss Lily Whiskers. In
> > > > the space of about 2 days approximately 14 cats were shot with a BB gun
> > > > in the area I live. The RSPCA fortunately nailed the b*stard who did it
> > > > with the police because someone had seen him do it, and all he got was
> > > > community service and a slap on the wrist. Then my brother caught up
> > > > with the perp. Miss Lily Whiskers is his cat.
>
> > > > Fortunately both made a full recovery, and we are sending purrs that
> > > > Ringo does the same.
>
> > > > Helen M
>
> > > > --
> > > > Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server -http://www.Mailgate.ORG
>
> > > what did your brother do? i hope he dished out some decent justice,
> > > you really cannot depend on the authorities to do it anymore. Do they
> > > not realise that these people who do this to animals have no respect
> > > for nay life and are highly like to go onto do similar to human
> > > beings? the police etc obviously think that humans are so much more
> > > important than animals and pets, even the little *******s like those
> > > who shoot at cats who in my opinion do not deserve to have the
> > > protection of the police or any human rights at all, so you would
> > > think that that argument might push them into doing something. rarely
> > > does though which is a shame
>
> > > please tell me your brother gave the guy a good kicking, it is just
> > > what i would do, sod the repercussions
>
> > > bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > What these idiots need is the best kicking they have ever had to help
> > them understand that you don't use cats as target practise.
>
> > Keep an eye on the field if possible, then jump them as soon as you
> > catch them doing it again.. because they will do it, believe me. Once
> > they have had a taste for it, they will come back to try it again.
>
> > The same thing happened to our cat two years ago, & he narrowly
> > escaped death & it cost us just under a 1000 in vets bills too. Worth
> > every penny, but so much more pleasing to know that they got some real
> > justice when my husband caught up with the two fellows involved & beat
> > the hell out of them.
>
> good for him! he is my hero! you can tell him that too! bit of street
> justice is what these ****s deserve
>
> > We did eventually get them to court, & they were forced to pay the
> > entire vet's bill.
>
> good, hitting them where it really hurts them, in the wallet, make
> them understand some of the true cost of their actions.
>
> > I can't help but wonder why two grown men found it pleasing to shoot
> > my poor cat.
>
> because they are ignorant little ****s, uneducated and intellectually
> subnormal, should have been strangled at birth
>
> bookie>
>
>
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I did want to bat them with a wonderful stout oak cricket bat, but I
worry that I might end up worse off than the perpetrators do..
you see it happening all the time,. don't you?
I won't let this one go..it had cost us terribly not just in financial
terms, but also emotionally as well.
Ross has decided that he will be taking them to the cleaners
(court!!).
We have retained every single petrol receipt.
( I don't think that our American friends realise how much petroleum
gas costs over here! A gallon of petrol is very close to $10, & $2 per
liter!!!!)
it is shockingly expensive & one round trip a day costs us around a
5er ( $10)..
Then there are the vets fees to pay, so when you think about it, you
realise it really will hit them in the pocket, as it has us. We are
fortunate enough tom have a vet who is good enough to treat our cats,
knowing that we have to wait until some of the kittens are sold to new
homes & slaves, when we can afford to pay up...
Things could be FAR WORSE!
S;o)

March 26th 07, 07:53 PM
> On Mar 24, 8:05 pm, "bookie" > wrote:


> What these idiots need is the best kicking they have ever had to help
> them understand that you don't use cats as target practise.


> Keep an eye on the field if possible, then jump them as soon as you
> catch them doing it again.. because they will do it, believe me. Once
> they have had a taste for it, they will come back to try it again.


> The same thing happened to our cat two years ago, & he narrowly
> escaped death & it cost us just under a 1000 in vets bills too. Worth
> every penny, but so much more pleasing to know that they got some real
> justice when my husband caught up with the two fellows involved & beat
> the hell out of them.



good for him! he is my hero! you can tell him that too! bit of street
justice is what these ****s deserve

Mine too!

He caught him five month after the event, when he was least expecting
it & gave him a lesson that he will never forget.

> We did eventually get them to court, & they were forced to pay the
> entire vet's bill.


good, hitting them where it really hurts them, in the wallet, make
them understand some of the true cost of their actions.

I think the most pleasant feeling was seeing the one of the fellows
every day outside the infant school after the event.
I knew what happened to him, & so did he & who dished it out too.

However, the best knowledge of all was knowing that it would take him
2 years to pay the bill off, & watching the bailiffs visiting him
several times because he neglected to pay the courts.
Consequently he had warrants out on him all the time.
I only knew this because he lived 5 doors away & it was rather hard
not to notice his car being towed away by them.
In the end he paid far more than the allotted sum, because of his
neglect to pay up.

Every single time he put a foot wrong, he was stopped by the police, &
arrested for another breach of the law he tried to pull off.

An extremely satisfying feeling I must say!

I don't know what happened to the other chap, because he moved away
from the area.


> I can't help but wonder why two grown men found it pleasing to shoot
> my poor cat.


because they are ignorant little ****s, uneducated and intellectually
subnormal, should have been strangled at birth

bookie

I have to agree with this analysis.

In fact my only regret is that I had to pay the money up front, whilst
they got allotted time to pay back the money.

It was a wicked thing to do to a defenceless cat, but I suppose Tigger
did get his own back watching the idiot every day as he had to pass
our driveway..where Tigger would sit in the sun having a nice dust
bath in front of him, flaunting his superiority.

My only regret is that he doesn't mark him daily too. I
f he could, I am certain that he would have.

I assure you that you will eventually catch up with them, as long as
you keep your eye's open & your ears alert, you will run into them in
the end.

Try not to loose your temper, because ultimately, they will bring you
down to their base level, simply through emotion.
Keep a log of who goes to the meadow if that is possible, & ask your
neighbors to do the same for you on your behalf - I am sure that they
will be happy to oblige given the circumstances.

Your son will have his day in court, & you are right to tell your son
not to take action personally.

Allow the police to try their way, then bang them with it later in a
similar fashion to the way they treated your cat.

Good Luck,
K

bookie
March 26th 07, 10:05 PM
On 26 Mar, 19:53, wrote:
> > On Mar 24, 8:05 pm, "bookie" > wrote:
>
> > What these idiots need is the best kicking they have ever had to help
> > them understand that you don't use cats as target practise.
> > Keep an eye on the field if possible, then jump them as soon as you
> > catch them doing it again.. because they will do it, believe me. Once
> > they have had a taste for it, they will come back to try it again.
> > The same thing happened to our cat two years ago, & he narrowly
> > escaped death & it cost us just under a 1000 in vets bills too. Worth
> > every penny, but so much more pleasing to know that they got some real
> > justice when my husband caught up with the two fellows involved & beat
> > the hell out of them.
>
> good for him! he is my hero! you can tell him that too! bit of street
> justice is what these ****s deserve
>
> Mine too!
>
> He caught him five month after the event, when he was least expecting
> it & gave him a lesson that he will never forget.
>
> > We did eventually get them to court, & they were forced to pay the
> > entire vet's bill.
>
> good, hitting them where it really hurts them, in the wallet, make
> them understand some of the true cost of their actions.
>
> I think the most pleasant feeling was seeing the one of the fellows
> every day outside the infant school after the event.
> I knew what happened to him, & so did he & who dished it out too.
>
> However, the best knowledge of all was knowing that it would take him
> 2 years to pay the bill off, & watching the bailiffs visiting him
> several times because he neglected to pay the courts.
> Consequently he had warrants out on him all the time.
> I only knew this because he lived 5 doors away & it was rather hard
> not to notice his car being towed away by them.
> In the end he paid far more than the allotted sum, because of his
> neglect to pay up.
>
> Every single time he put a foot wrong, he was stopped by the police, &
> arrested for another breach of the law he tried to pull off.
>
> An extremely satisfying feeling I must say!
>
> I don't know what happened to the other chap, because he moved away
> from the area.
>
> > I can't help but wonder why two grown men found it pleasing to shoot
> > my poor cat.
>
> because they are ignorant little ****s, uneducated and intellectually
> subnormal, should have been strangled at birth
>
> bookie
>
> I have to agree with this analysis.
>
> In fact my only regret is that I had to pay the money up front, whilst
> they got allotted time to pay back the money.
>
> It was a wicked thing to do to a defenceless cat, but I suppose Tigger
> did get his own back watching the idiot every day as he had to pass
> our driveway..where Tigger would sit in the sun having a nice dust
> bath in front of him, flaunting his superiority.
>
> My only regret is that he doesn't mark him daily too. I
> f he could, I am certain that he would have.
>
> I assure you that you will eventually catch up with them, as long as
> you keep your eye's open & your ears alert, you will run into them in
> the end.
>
> Try not to loose your temper, because ultimately, they will bring you
> down to their base level, simply through emotion.
> Keep a log of who goes to the meadow if that is possible, & ask your
> neighbors to do the same for you on your behalf - I am sure that they
> will be happy to oblige given the circumstances.
>
> Your son will have his day in court, & you are right to tell your son
> not to take action personally.
>
> Allow the police to try their way, then bang them with it later in a
> similar fashion to the way they treated your cat.
>
> Good Luck,
> K

yes, revenge is a dish best eaten cold,
I would have soo enjoyed seeing that guy get visited by bailiffs and
having his car towed away, i would have probably stood ouside and
taken photos of the event , and made it obvious what i was doing and
that i was enjoying it too. Maybe invite a few friends round for a
'watch the evil **** 5 doors up get his come uppance' party, prepare
nibbles, a few drinks, etc, maybe some big banners, perhaps let off
some fireworks at the moment when the car disappears off down the road
on the back of a tow truck too, just to really rub it in :-)

i am evil but I love it
bookie

Lynne
March 27th 07, 01:16 AM
on Mon, 26 Mar 2007 15:43:05 GMT, "sheelagh"
> wrote:

> Today he was allowed out of his pen & we were allowed to give him
> proper tummy tickles & loves. it was wonderful & made me smile like
> the Cheshire cat out of Alice in wonderland...

This is such wonderful news, Sheelagh!! Please give Ringo some tickles
from across the pond. <3

--
Lynne

cindys
March 27th 07, 02:32 AM
Sheelagh, I haven't been posting so often now, but I have been checking the
newsgroup several times a day looking for updates. I am so glad to hear that
Ringo is coming along so well, and I was thinking about Tiggy as well today.
You must have been reading my mind. Hopefully, everything will be smooth
sailing from now on (and those creeps who shot Ringo will be made to pay).
Please keep updating us as often as you can.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.


"sheelagh" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On 25 Mar, 21:20, Lynne > wrote:
>> on Sun, 25 Mar 2007 17:11:01 GMT, "sheelagh"
>>
>> > wrote:
>> > Ringo is one hell of a cat to come through this & we feel proud to say
>> > that he owns us...
>
>> Sheelagh, I am SO relieved that Ringo is improving--relieved for him and
>> for all of your family. Thank you so much for taking the time to let us
>> know how he and all of you are faring.
>
> We are fine now that we know that he is going to make it through this
> one.
> Our ultimate nightmare was that he might not make it after speaking to
> the family that lost their cat.
>
> And no problems posting, it is nice to have someone to share it with
> when you are awake @ 4am because you can't sleep for worry about
> him,..
> So thanks to all of you too. You have all been a wonderful support to
> us...
>
>> I hope the police find the little *******s who did this and make their
>> parents pay some hefty fines (at a minimum). I'm glad you have
>> discouraged your son from retaliating. It would be a horrible tragedy if
>> his future is negatively effected by all of this, and beating the snot
>> out of someone (well, getting caught...) could certainly be a problem for
>> him. As satisfying as it would be to wrap a bat around someone's face
>> for this, it's not worth the repurcussions. And in the end, it wouldn't
>> help you or Ross even if he did get away with it. Take the high road,
>> and be better than these cretins.
>
> That was my thought too regarding it affecting Ross's future. He has
> managed to keep a clean record until now, so it would be a shame to
> tarnish it now, however much anger he feels about it all.
>
> When you bare in mind that he has a job to go straight into the day he
> leaves school if he wants it, then it would be a shame to throw that
> chance away just because he has a criminal record!
>
> He tells that it is not fair, but my answer to that one is life is not
> fair!!
> I have no doubt at all in my mind that what comes around will also go
> around.. their comeuppance will come to them
>
> I have every intention of taking the little cretins for every single
> penny that it has cost us, in money as well as emotional stress too
>
>> I'm continuing to send healing thoughts Ringo's way and look forward to
>> hearing about his complete recovery. I think you will be surprised at
>> how fast he will adapt to the loss of vision in one eye, once he's clear
>> of the infection, out of pain and back at his home-sweet-home.
>
> We saw his face for the first time today, because we arrived whilst
> they were changing his dressing. Initially, they left the wound open
> but stitched. However, when it started to weep, they had to cover it
> with a special dressing that works one way; the seepage turns into
> gel, & the wound remains dry & allows the air to circulate under it
> too...
>
> I have to admit that we were quite shocked, because he is not only
> shaved there, but it is still swollen as well. I thought it looked
> big, but assumed it was the bandaging...It never occurred to me that
> it was the swelling!
> The wound has nearly stopped weeping now & with any luck bandages
> might come off tomorrow altogether.
> I am sure that he will manage fine without the eye. He won't be
> allowed near any more possible dangers ever again. It has been an
> expensive lesson, but a well learnt one too.
>
> He is still taking oral antibiotics, Is not even remotely impressed
> with the collar that stops him nibbling under his leg that is still
> splinted..
> Today he was allowed out of his pen & we were allowed to give him
> proper tummy tickles & loves. it was wonderful & made me smile like
> the Cheshire cat out of Alice in wonderland...
>> --
>> Lynne
>
> On 25 Mar, 19:06, "22brix" > wrote:
>> Happy dances all over the house!! Hopefully you'll have your entire herd
>
>> back at home very soon! Yes, we hope so too
>
> Is Ringo still on pain meds?
> ?Yes he is, & I understand that he will come home on them too..
>
> Several years ago we
>> were taking care of a semi-feral kitty with a previously damaged eye.
>> When
>> the vets spayed her they removed her eye as well (because she was
>> squinting
>> all the time and they felt she was in pain). She was sent home with us
>> with
>> pain meds for several days--I think it (the pain meds) sped up her
>> healing.
>
> Yes, we hope so too, & It will be nice not having to visit to two
> separate places every day as well. We have the kittens a few miles
> away & Ringo in the nearest market town around 10 miles away.
>
>> Is Tiggy home yet? I hope you didn't have two of them hospitalized at
>> the
>> same time.
>
> Thankfully no. Tiggy came home the day after Pyometra op on pain meds
> too. She has the entire new extension on the side of the house to
> herself, including food, her own bathroom facilities & &our bed to
> sleep on too. She uses the bedside table to jump on, then from there,
> she gets to the bed.
> All we are waiting for now, are the kittens. I don't think it would be
> a good idea to bring them home just yet, if at all.
> I worry that something might happen to them after that terrible Fcv
> outbreak we had..I miss them, but I have to what is best for the
> kittens, rather than what I would like to do...
> I do get to see them quite often, but it is not the same as having
> them at home.
> we are starting to see what colours we have now. I am off to see them
> in an hour or so
>
> She seems fine now, but looks like she needs a few extra calories on
> her waistline. I am giving her kitten food dry & chunks too, some
> occasional fresh minced beef & cimmi cat milk kitty formula, to try
> and pack some weight back on her
>> Wishing all of you a speedy recovery, physical and emotional as well!
> Thank you very much indeed;o)
>> Bonnie
> Thanks from us all too
> S;o)
>

Wendy
March 27th 07, 01:12 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
oups.com...
On 25 Mar, 23:19, "bookie" > wrote:
> On 25 Mar, 19:07, wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 24, 8:05 pm, "bookie" > wrote:
>
> > > On 24 Mar, 10:41, "Helen Miles" > wrote:
>
> > > > "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> > > ups.com
>
We are
fortunate enough tom have a vet who is good enough to treat our cats,
knowing that we have to wait until some of the kittens are sold to new
homes & slaves, when we can afford to pay up...
Things could be FAR WORSE!
S;o)




Did he end up losing the eye or just the vision in that eye? I know it's not
JUST but if he can keep the eye that saves one piece of surgery that he
won't have to go through.

And speaking of those kittens.... how are they doing and how's mom??? You
really need to get some pictures of those babies for us. :o)

W

sheelagh
March 27th 07, 03:08 PM
On 27 Mar, 13:12, "Wendy" > wrote:

>
> Did he end up losing the eye or just the vision in that eye? I know it's not
> JUST but if he can keep the eye that saves one piece of surgery that he
> won't have to go through.

He just lost the sight in it Wendey. I am so grateful that he didn't
have to go through another batch of surgery. I think he has been
through quite enough.

We also have a coming home date too. He will be coming home the day
after tomorrow, so I was told this morning.
As you can imagine, we can't wait;o)

> And speaking of those kittens.... how are they doing and how's mom??? You
> really need to get some pictures of those babies for us. :o)
>
> W

sure!
Funny that you should mention that, because I took some this morning.
They are not excellent ones, but they do give you an idea of what they
look like now.
It looks like we have two blues & a seal point by their ear colouring
& the fur on their legs.

How are your little babes doing too?
S;o)

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/TiggySKittensAt2WeeksOld

sheelagh
March 27th 07, 04:09 PM
On 27 Mar, 02:32, "cindys" > wrote:
> Sheelagh, I haven't been posting so often now, but I have been checking the
> newsgroup several times a day looking for updates. I am so glad to hear that
> Ringo is coming along so well, and I was thinking about Tiggy as well today.
> You must have been reading my mind. Hopefully, everything will be smooth
> sailing from now on (and those creeps who shot Ringo will be made to pay).
> Please keep updating us as often as you can.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
Hi Cindy , I'm certain that you will be as pleased as we were to hear
that we have a coming home date for Ringo. As long as everything goes
according to plan, he will be coming home the day after tomorrow. I
can hardly contain my excitement which is rather silly, but true all
the same...

Ross is delighted, & will be coming with me to collect him. He has
been out cleaning cars to make money to buy the staff a treat when we
collect him. They really have been good to us & I, think he just wants
to demonstrate how grateful he is to them.
Unfortunately, no word on catching the cretins, but there is plenty of
time yet to catch them..

We will keep you abrest on that on of course!
Here is a link to some photos of Tiggy's kittens too by the way.
Unfortunately they are not brilliant ones, but they do give you some
idea of what they look like though

S;o)

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/TiggySKittensAt2WeeksOld/photo#5046588556134609202

22brix
March 27th 07, 04:24 PM
Sheelagh,

They're absolutely precious!! No longer the little white mice that they
were! So cute when they start getting "dirty" noses and paws! Thanks for
posting these pictures--it's a wonderful break from the all bad news. I may
have missed it but do you know their genders yet?

It's great to have a going home date for Ringo! I'll bet he's getting tired
of being at the vet's. "Mom, I want home now!"

Take care,

Bonnie

cindys
March 27th 07, 04:31 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> On 27 Mar, 02:32, "cindys" > wrote:
>> Sheelagh, I haven't been posting so often now, but I have been checking
>> the
>> newsgroup several times a day looking for updates. I am so glad to hear
>> that
>> Ringo is coming along so well, and I was thinking about Tiggy as well
>> today.
>> You must have been reading my mind. Hopefully, everything will be smooth
>> sailing from now on (and those creeps who shot Ringo will be made to
>> pay).
>> Please keep updating us as often as you can.
>> Best regards,
>> ---Cindy S.
> Hi Cindy , I'm certain that you will be as pleased as we were to hear
> that we have a coming home date for Ringo. As long as everything goes
> according to plan, he will be coming home the day after tomorrow. I
> can hardly contain my excitement which is rather silly, but true all
> the same...

Hurray! Hurray!
>
> Ross is delighted, & will be coming with me to collect him. He has
> been out cleaning cars to make money to buy the staff a treat when we
> collect him. They really have been good to us & I, think he just wants
> to demonstrate how grateful he is to them.

That is really nice.

> Unfortunately, no word on catching the cretins, but there is plenty of
> time yet to catch them..

Yup. Has anyone considered offering a reward?
>
> We will keep you abrest on that on of course!
> Here is a link to some photos of Tiggy's kittens too by the way.
> Unfortunately they are not brilliant ones, but they do give you some
> idea of what they look like though
>
> S;o)
>
> http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/TiggySKittensAt2WeeksOld/photo#5046588556134609202
>

They are so adorable I can't stand it. I want one!!!!!
Best regards,
----Cindy S.

bookie
March 27th 07, 05:14 PM
On 27 Mar, 15:08, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 27 Mar, 13:12, "Wendy" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Did he end up losing the eye or just the vision in that eye? I know it's not
> > JUST but if he can keep the eye that saves one piece of surgery that he
> > won't have to go through.
>
> He just lost the sight in it Wendey. I am so grateful that he didn't
> have to go through another batch of surgery. I think he has been
> through quite enough.
>
> We also have a coming home date too. He will be coming home the day
> after tomorrow, so I was told this morning.
> As you can imagine, we can't wait;o)
>
> > And speaking of those kittens.... how are they doing and how's mom??? You
> > really need to get some pictures of those babies for us. :o)
>
> > W
>
> sure!
> Funny that you should mention that, because I took some this morning.
> They are not excellent ones, but they do give you an idea of what they
> look like now.
> It looks like we have two blues & a seal point by their ear colouring
> & the fur on their legs.
>
> How are your little babes doing too?
> S;o)
>
> http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/TiggySKittensAt2WeeksOld

oh my god they are beautiful! they are like little fluffy angels! they
deserve lovely homes and doting slaves to care for them, what precious
little things they are! I am so jealous

Lynne
March 28th 07, 12:42 AM
On Mar 27, 11:09 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:

> Hi Cindy , I'm certain that you will be as pleased as we were to hear
> that we have a coming home date for Ringo. As long as everything goes
> according to plan, he will be coming home the day after tomorrow. I
> can hardly contain my excitement which is rather silly, but true all
> the same...

YIPEE!!

> Ross is delighted, & will be coming with me to collect him. He has
> been out cleaning cars to make money to buy the staff a treat when we
> collect him. They really have been good to us & I, think he just wants
> to demonstrate how grateful he is to them.

Your son sounds like a really good person. You must be very proud of
him.

> Unfortunately, no word on catching the cretins, but there is plenty of
> time yet to catch them..

That's VERY frustrating.

> We will keep you abrest on that on of course!
> Here is a link to some photos of Tiggy's kittens too by the way.
> Unfortunately they are not brilliant ones, but they do give you some
> idea of what they look like though
>
> S;o)
>
> http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/TiggySKittensAt2WeeksOld...

They are precious!!

Wendy
March 28th 07, 02:47 AM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On 27 Mar, 13:12, "Wendy" > wrote:
>
> Funny that you should mention that, because I took some this morning.
> They are not excellent ones, but they do give you an idea of what they
> look like now.
> It looks like we have two blues & a seal point by their ear colouring
> & the fur on their legs.
>
> How are your little babes doing too?
> S;o)
>
> http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/TiggySKittensAt2WeeksOld
>

Ohhhhhhh! I just love that one with the little pink nose!

They look like they're doing well.

My momma is looking good. She's getting her youthful, girlish figure back.
She's taking good care of her babies who are doing well so far.

W

22brix
March 28th 07, 04:12 AM
"Wendy" > wrote in message
. ..

>
> My momma is looking good. She's getting her youthful, girlish figure back.
> She's taking good care of her babies who are doing well so far.
>
> W
>

Hi Wendy,

Do you have any new pictures of her babies?! We'd love to see them!

Bonnie

cindys
March 28th 07, 08:49 AM
"22brix" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Wendy" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>
>> My momma is looking good. She's getting her youthful, girlish figure
>> back. She's taking good care of her babies who are doing well so far.
>>
>> W
>>
>
> Hi Wendy,
>
> Do you have any new pictures of her babies?! We'd love to see them!
----------
Me too!
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

sheelagh
March 28th 07, 02:45 PM
On 28 Mar, 02:47, "Wendy" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
> > On 27 Mar, 13:12, "Wendy" > wrote:
>
> > Funny that you should mention that, because I took some this morning.
> > They are not excellent ones, but they do give you an idea of what they
> > look like now.
> > It looks like we have two blues & a seal point by their ear colouring
> > & the fur on their legs.
>
> > How are your little babes doing too?
> > S;o)
>
> >http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/TiggySKittensAt2WeeksOld
>
> Ohhhhhhh! I just love that one with the little pink nose!

Ermmmm, We might have a problem there..
<oops!!>
Pinky looks like she might be Tazy's daughter.
(Tazy is our seal mitted Ragdoll), in most Ragdoll litters we get at
least one pink nose out of him. Pinky will end up being a Bi-Colour
Birman / Ragdoll x- a Blue Bi colour by the looks of her.

I think someone asked me if we knew the sex of them yet,& the answer
to that one is yes. We have 2 little girls and a boy too.

I don't mind if they are x breeds, after all, why should it matter?
As long as their new slaves know that they are x breeds, or not as the
case may be but still want one, then that is fine by me.

Their foster mummy has given them all nick-names as she is entitled to
of course as she is their grandma (in-law, lol)
We have Pinky, Poppy & Paddy, because he throws one if he can't get to
mummy's teat first.( over here, if you say someone is throwing a
Paddy, it means that they are acting like a toddler doing the dying
fly routine @ the checkout when you have said no for the last time to
candy/sweeties.. with the legs & arms in the air & lying on their
back...

I think they are getting much more interesting now that they are
developing characters & we can tell who/what they are going to be

I am going to show you what I think Pinky will turn out like going on
previous experience & kittens...

PINKY PHOTOS
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/Pinky/photo#5046968603097329602

> They look like they're doing well.

Thank you, I think so too. I am amazed that their foster mu8mmy has
accepted them so easily and treats them exactly as she does her own
kittens.
She did us a HUGE favour there!!

> My momma is looking good. She's getting her youthful, girlish figure back.
> She's taking good care of her babies who are doing well so far.
> W
Lol, I know what you mean. They look thinner with a wavy
undercarriage , don't they;o)

If anything, Tiggy has lost a bit too much weight. I have got her on
kitten chunks, & kitten dry as well as a bit of fresh meat, (minced
beef) every other day. I have also got a tube of Nutri- cal which she
licks off the end of my finger as well.
Any other suggestions gratefully accepted..?

I would also love to see an update on your kitty's when you have the
time to, please?
Many Thanks Wendy

S;o)

sheelagh
March 28th 07, 03:52 PM
On 28 Mar, 00:42, "Lynne" > wrote:
> On Mar 27, 11:09 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > Hi Cindy , I'm certain that you will be as pleased as we were to hear
> > that we have a coming home date for Ringo. As long as everything goes
> > according to plan, he will be coming home the day after tomorrow. I
> > can hardly contain my excitement which is rather silly, but true all
> > the same...
>
> YIPEE!!

We are delighted:o)
I have already popped down to see him today, so that they could show
me how to change his dressing & also explain when he has to take his
meds. He looks a hell of a lot perkier today. More so than we have
seen him since before the incident I believe. His face is still quite
swollen, but that will go down in the next few days.

I was talking to the vet about the whole incident today & he told me
that on average they get at least cases like his every month!!
I found that astounding...

He was told me that in 60% of the cases, that the police do find out
who does this to cats, & in 25% of cases, they are repeat offenders..&
they are not all kids either. Some of them are middle aged men who
simply get angry with cats crossing their gardens, so they shoot them
to stop them interfering with their plants?!!
I find that even more shocking!!
The main way of catching them is by the pellets that were fired by the
gun- they can match them up, which is why the vets preserve them so
that the police can use them as evidence to nail them with. It all
sounds like something out of a crime book, but he assures me that it
is true!

You would think that a hose pipe would be enough to get rid of
unwanted cats..
Why resort to shooting them..? I know that with my cats, even the
sight of the demister is enough to make them scoot.. I find that quite
shocking...


> > Ross is delighted, & will be coming with me to collect him. He has
> > been out cleaning cars to make money to buy the staff a treat when we
> > collect him. They really have been good to us & I, think he just wants
> > to demonstrate how grateful he is to them.
>
> Your son sounds like a really good person. You must be very proud of
> him.

I am;o)
When I think back to the rage he felt and the tears he cried, I am
quite surprised that he didn't go out head panning everybody he met
until he did get the right one. He was horrified when he found him,
utterly devastated.
If this incident has had only one benefit, it is that all of the kids
now have a healthy fear of BB guns and know what damage they can do 7
will never ask for one or allow their children to have one either..
Meet Ross below...

ROSS & HIS CATS BELOW
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/RossBiffy/photo#5046979516609228786


> > Unfortunately, no word on catching the cretins, but there is plenty of
> > time yet to catch them..
>
> That's VERY frustrating.

I know;(

I have no intention of allowing it to slip through the net. As you
will see below, Cindy came up with a very good suggestion, so I am
going to try the method she suggests, because I have a feeling that
this one might work.....
> > We will keep you abrest on that on of course!
> > Here is a link to some photos of Tiggy's kittens too by the way.
> > Unfortunately they are not brilliant ones, but they do give you some
> > idea of what they look like though
>
> > S;o)
>
> >http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/TiggySKittensAt2WeeksOld...
>
> They are precious!!


> On 27 Mar, 02:32, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> Yup. Has anyone considered offering a reward?

No, actually, they haven't...
Good thinking, I think you might have just suggested the answer to our
problem here.
We have just been talking about it. I think we can come up with a 200
pound reward, so as soon as I have posted this, we are going to see if
the other families affected would like to chip in & make the reward
even more alluring, thus get someone who knows about it to snitch on
the perpetrators. I honestly can't think of a better way to get the
lice to climb out of the woodwork, can you?
Thanks very much for the suggestion Cindy, we appreciate it.
Now...time to look for a photo of Ringo's best profile, then find one
of him the day we found him in the field too. If that isn't enough to
pull on the heart strings, nothing will..!!
S;o)

PS: There is a photo on the other posting of what we think Pinky might
look like when she gets a little older.
we have 2 little girls & one little boy kittens from Tiggy, & we think
that Pinky might be a croos Ragdoll Birman cross kitten (OOPS!)
Pinky, Poppy & Paddy are thei8r pet names. their foster Grandmother
has named them..I think they are nice names. Now all we have to do is
choose the right slaves for them
<Gosh it has turned out to be a nice sunny day here>

Lis
March 28th 07, 05:27 PM
On Mar 28, 10:52 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 28 Mar, 00:42, "Lynne" > wrote:
>
> > On Mar 27, 11:09 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > Hi Cindy , I'm certain that you will be as pleased as we were to hear
> > > that we have a coming home date for Ringo. As long as everything goes
> > > according to plan, he will be coming home the day after tomorrow. I
> > > can hardly contain my excitement which is rather silly, but true all
> > > the same...
>
> > YIPEE!!
>
> We are delighted:o)
> I have already popped down to see him today, so that they could show
> me how to change his dressing & also explain when he has to take his
> meds. He looks a hell of a lot perkier today. More so than we have
> seen him since before the incident I believe. His face is still quite
> swollen, but that will go down in the next few days.
>
> I was talking to the vet about the whole incident today & he told me
> that on average they get at least cases like his every month!!
> I found that astounding...
>
> He was told me that in 60% of the cases, that the police do find out
> who does this to cats, & in 25% of cases, they are repeat offenders..&
> they are not all kids either. Some of them are middle aged men who
> simply get angry with cats crossing their gardens, so they shoot them
> to stop them interfering with their plants?!!
> I find that even more shocking!!
> The main way of catching them is by the pellets that were fired by the
> gun- they can match them up, which is why the vets preserve them so
> that the police can use them as evidence to nail them with. It all
> sounds like something out of a crime book, but he assures me that it
> is true!
>
> You would think that a hose pipe would be enough to get rid of
> unwanted cats..
> Why resort to shooting them..? I know that with my cats, even the
> sight of the demister is enough to make them scoot.. I find that quite
> shocking...
>
> > > Ross is delighted, & will be coming with me to collect him. He has
> > > been out cleaning cars to make money to buy the staff a treat when we
> > > collect him. They really have been good to us & I, think he just wants
> > > to demonstrate how grateful he is to them.
>
> > Your son sounds like a really good person. You must be very proud of
> > him.
>
> I am;o)
> When I think back to the rage he felt and the tears he cried, I am
> quite surprised that he didn't go out head panning everybody he met
> until he did get the right one. He was horrified when he found him,
> utterly devastated.
> If this incident has had only one benefit, it is that all of the kids
> now have a healthy fear of BB guns and know what damage they can do 7
> will never ask for one or allow their children to have one either..
> Meet Ross below...
>
> ROSS & HIS CATS BELOW
> http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/RossBiffy/photo#50469795...
>
> > > Unfortunately, no word on catching the cretins, but there is plenty of
> > > time yet to catch them..
>
> > That's VERY frustrating.
>
> I know;(
>
> I have no intention of allowing it to slip through the net. As you
> will see below, Cindy came up with a very good suggestion, so I am
> going to try the method she suggests, because I have a feeling that
> this one might work.....
>
> > > We will keep you abrest on that on of course!
> > > Here is a link to some photos of Tiggy's kittens too by the way.
> > > Unfortunately they are not brilliant ones, but they do give you some
> > > idea of what they look like though
>
> > > S;o)
>
> > >http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/TiggySKittensAt2WeeksOld....
>
> > They are precious!!
>
> > On 27 Mar, 02:32, "cindys" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Yup. Has anyone considered offering a reward?
>
> No, actually, they haven't...
> Good thinking, I think you might have just suggested the answer to our
> problem here.
> We have just been talking about it. I think we can come up with a 200
> pound reward, so as soon as I have posted this, we are going to see if
> the other families affected would like to chip in & make the reward
> even more alluring, thus get someone who knows about it to snitch on
> the perpetrators. I honestly can't think of a better way to get the
> lice to climb out of the woodwork, can you?
> Thanks very much for the suggestion Cindy, we appreciate it.
> Now...time to look for a photo of Ringo's best profile, then find one
> of him the day we found him in the field too. If that isn't enough to
> pull on the heart strings, nothing will..!!
> S;o)
>
> PS: There is a photo on the other posting of what we think Pinky might
> look like when she gets a little older.
> we have 2 little girls & one little boy kittens from Tiggy, & we think
> that Pinky might be a croos Ragdoll Birman cross kitten (OOPS!)
> Pinky, Poppy & Paddy are thei8r pet names. their foster Grandmother
> has named them..I think they are nice names. Now all we have to do is
> choose the right slaves for them
> <Gosh it has turned out to be a nice sunny day here>

Sheelagh,

I'm so pleased to see that Ringo is doing well and is going to
recover, AND that the new kittens are doing well! I've been distracted
for the past few days with my new dog (quite a shock to my two cats,
as you might guess!), but I finally came up for air and wanted to see
how you and Ringo were doing. I hope the police catch the little
rotters that did this, and soon.

Lis

sheelagh
March 28th 07, 06:29 PM
On 28 Mar, 17:27, "Lis" > wrote:
> On Mar 28, 10:52 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 28 Mar, 00:42, "Lynne" > wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 27, 11:09 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > > Hi Cindy , I'm certain that you will be as pleased as we were to hear
> > > > that we have a coming home date for Ringo. As long as everything goes
> > > > according to plan, he will be coming home the day after tomorrow. I
> > > > can hardly contain my excitement which is rather silly, but true all
> > > > the same...
>
> > > YIPEE!!
>
> > We are delighted:o)
> > I have already popped down to see him today, so that they could show
> > me how to change his dressing & also explain when he has to take his
> > meds. He looks a hell of a lot perkier today. More so than we have
> > seen him since before the incident I believe. His face is still quite
> > swollen, but that will go down in the next few days.
>
> > I was talking to the vet about the whole incident today & he told me
> > that on average they get at least cases like his every month!!
> > I found that astounding...
>
> > He was told me that in 60% of the cases, that the police do find out
> > who does this to cats, & in 25% of cases, they are repeat offenders..&
> > they are not all kids either. Some of them are middle aged men who
> > simply get angry with cats crossing their gardens, so they shoot them
> > to stop them interfering with their plants?!!
> > I find that even more shocking!!
> > The main way of catching them is by the pellets that were fired by the
> > gun- they can match them up, which is why the vets preserve them so
> > that the police can use them as evidence to nail them with. It all
> > sounds like something out of a crime book, but he assures me that it
> > is true!
>
> > You would think that a hose pipe would be enough to get rid of
> > unwanted cats..
> > Why resort to shooting them..? I know that with my cats, even the
> > sight of the demister is enough to make them scoot.. I find that quite
> > shocking...
>
> > > > Ross is delighted, & will be coming with me to collect him. He has
> > > > been out cleaning cars to make money to buy the staff a treat when we
> > > > collect him. They really have been good to us & I, think he just wants
> > > > to demonstrate how grateful he is to them.
>
> > > Your son sounds like a really good person. You must be very proud of
> > > him.
>
> > I am;o)
> > When I think back to the rage he felt and the tears he cried, I am
> > quite surprised that he didn't go out head panning everybody he met
> > until he did get the right one. He was horrified when he found him,
> > utterly devastated.
> > If this incident has had only one benefit, it is that all of the kids
> > now have a healthy fear of BB guns and know what damage they can do 7
> > will never ask for one or allow their children to have one either..
> > Meet Ross below...
>
> > ROSS & HIS CATS BELOW
> > http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/RossBiffy/photo#50469795....
>
> > > > Unfortunately, no word on catching the cretins, but there is plenty of
> > > > time yet to catch them..
>
> > > That's VERY frustrating.
>
> > I know;(
>
> > I have no intention of allowing it to slip through the net. As you
> > will see below, Cindy came up with a very good suggestion, so I am
> > going to try the method she suggests, because I have a feeling that
> > this one might work.....
>
> > > > We will keep you abrest on that on of course!
> > > > Here is a link to some photos of Tiggy's kittens too by the way.
> > > > Unfortunately they are not brilliant ones, but they do give you some
> > > > idea of what they look like though
>
> > > > S;o)
>
> > > >http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/TiggySKittensAt2WeeksOld...
>
> > > They are precious!!
>
> > > On 27 Mar, 02:32, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > Yup. Has anyone considered offering a reward?
>
> > No, actually, they haven't...
> > Good thinking, I think you might have just suggested the answer to our
> > problem here.
> > We have just been talking about it. I think we can come up with a 200
> > pound reward, so as soon as I have posted this, we are going to see if
> > the other families affected would like to chip in & make the reward
> > even more alluring, thus get someone who knows about it to snitch on
> > the perpetrators. I honestly can't think of a better way to get the
> > lice to climb out of the woodwork, can you?
> > Thanks very much for the suggestion Cindy, we appreciate it.
> > Now...time to look for a photo of Ringo's best profile, then find one
> > of him the day we found him in the field too. If that isn't enough to
> > pull on the heart strings, nothing will..!!
> > S;o)
>
> > PS: There is a photo on the other posting of what we think Pinky might
> > look like when she gets a little older.
> > we have 2 little girls & one little boy kittens from Tiggy, & we think
> > that Pinky might be a cross Ragdoll Birman cross kitten (OOPS!)
> > Pinky, Poppy & Paddy are thei8r pet names. their foster Grandmother
> > has named them..I think they are nice names. Now all we have to do is
> > choose the right slaves for them
> > <Gosh it has turned out to be a nice sunny day here>
>
> Sheelagh,
>
> I'm so pleased to see that Ringo is doing well and is going to
> recover, AND that the new kittens are doing well! I've been distracted
> for the past few days with my new dog (quite a shock to my two cats,
> as you might guess!), but I finally came up for air and wanted to see
> how you and Ringo were doing. I hope the police catch the little
> rotters that did this, and soon.
>
> Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi Lis, How are things going with your feline family now that they
have a dog to care for too?
I can imagine exactly what it has been like, lol, because we have been
through this one. In our case, we were caring for a Rottweiler for my
other half's daughter whilst she was in between moving from one house
to another one...

We had "Tara" for just over 2months, and it took the cats about a week
to get over the shock of it all, & to realise that this might be a
permanent thing, so they might as well come out and see what they had
to deal with @ the time...

They were absolute rotters(excuse the pun!), to her. They teased her
unmercifully & taunted her no end, by pulling faces at her from the
inside of the cat flap, in the thought that they were safe & could get
away with it..until the day she got so angry with the pair of them,
that she came "Right Through the Back Door" with the cat flap still
around her neck & ate the rest of the cat chow that was down @
time...!!!!!!

She who must be Obeyed, wasn't even slightly amused....
But, to be fair, it wasn't just the Cat that teased the poor dog, the
kids had a hand in it too.
One day, I caught Ross,(then only a year old or so), feeding Tara with
frozen raw burgers straight out the freezer. Tara didn't mind at all
of course, but I wasn't quite so impressed as you can imagine ;o)
All part of being a kid and animal slave as they say...
******************************************

Yes, super news regarding Ringo's release. We pick him up just before
lunch time tomorrow & Foffy (Ross, he will kill me if he reads this
post, lol) & I are going to pick him up together, then Ross will look
after him whilst I go and visit the kittens. I am so pleased that life
is getting back to relatively normal again.
<his nick-name>

We have to isolate Ringo for a little while after her gets home, but
that is no problem. I think that if Ross had his own way, he would
move Ringo to his bedroom & allow him to hang out there, but She who
must be obeyed, doesn't like the idea of a cat litter in his bedroom..
so he is getting indoor care @ night in Ross's room , & outdoors
during the day as long as the good weather continues.. in the small
run. (we have the ok on that one..)

Ringo was a stray when we met him, so he loves being out there. In
fact he gets quite strop when I won't let him out.
I think the only thing that I have decided, is that he will never be
allowed outside the confines of the garden again. It is a shame, but I
can't allow for that to happen after recent events..it simply isn't
worth it.

I do blame myself, but having said that I guess some lessons are
learnt the hard way. It was just a pity that it was @ Ringo's expense
sadly.

Cindy came up with a brilliant idea, of offering a reward for
information leading to the arrest of the person or people that did
this to him.
I have had a chat with a couple of the families who were also affected
by this spree of BB gun shots on their cats, and they are willing to
chip into bumping up the reward, so now all we have to do is run off
the reward posters & place them all over the village...

Mummy of the kittens, Tiggy, is doing quite well & her foster mummy is
doing a magnificent job of looking after them.
we owe foster mum Big Time because she really has done all of the work
for us. I consider us as very lucky to find such a gentle cat to take
care of the kittens for us, & so willingly too...

Things really are pulling together @ last
Be good to hear your recent news too?
Great to hear you around again...
S;o)

Lis
March 28th 07, 07:32 PM
On Mar 28, 1:29 pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 28 Mar, 17:27, "Lis" > wrote:
>
<snip>

> > Sheelagh,
>
> > I'm so pleased to see that Ringo is doing well and is going to
> > recover, AND that the new kittens are doing well! I've been distracted
> > for the past few days with my new dog (quite a shock to my two cats,
> > as you might guess!), but I finally came up for air and wanted to see
> > how you and Ringo were doing. I hope the police catch the little
> > rotters that did this, and soon.
>
> > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Hi Lis, How are things going with your feline family now that they
> have a dog to care for too?
> I can imagine exactly what it has been like, lol, because we have been
> through this one. In our case, we were caring for a Rottweiler for my
> other half's daughter whilst she was in between moving from one house
> to another one...
>
> We had "Tara" for just over 2months, and it took the cats about a week
> to get over the shock of it all, & to realise that this might be a
> permanent thing, so they might as well come out and see what they had
> to deal with @ the time...

It's been a shock for them, but already, after only three days, Addy
(the dog, a Chinese Crested Powderpuff) is trying to play with the
cats, and the cats, while not willing to play, are starting to
conclude that Addy's presence is no obstacle to getting petted,
cuddled, or, in the case of Aquavit, my Maine Coon, groomed. They're
adjusting much faster than I had hoped for, really.

> They were absolute rotters(excuse the pun!), to her. They teased her
> unmercifully & taunted her no end, by pulling faces at her from the
> inside of the cat flap, in the thought that they were safe & could get
> away with it..until the day she got so angry with the pair of them,
> that she came "Right Through the Back Door" with the cat flap still
> around her neck & ate the rest of the cat chow that was down @
> time...!!!!!!

Cats can be little rotters when their turf and privileges are being
violated, can't they?:) Fortunately, my two seem to be taking into
account the fact that Addy has to go Outside with me--a thing that
horrifies them!--so they don't feel she's being let off scot-free for
her intrusion.

> She who must be Obeyed, wasn't even slightly amused....
> But, to be fair, it wasn't just the Cat that teased the poor dog, the
> kids had a hand in it too.
> One day, I caught Ross,(then only a year old or so), feeding Tara with
> frozen raw burgers straight out the freezer. Tara didn't mind at all
> of course, but I wasn't quite so impressed as you can imagine ;o)
> All part of being a kid and animal slave as they say...
> ******************************************
>
> Yes, super news regarding Ringo's release. We pick him up just before
> lunch time tomorrow & Foffy (Ross, he will kill me if he reads this
> post, lol) & I are going to pick him up together, then Ross will look
> after him whilst I go and visit the kittens. I am so pleased that life
> is getting back to relatively normal again.
> <his nick-name>

Oh, that's good news.

> We have to isolate Ringo for a little while after her gets home, but
> that is no problem. I think that if Ross had his own way, he would
> move Ringo to his bedroom & allow him to hang out there, but She who
> must be obeyed, doesn't like the idea of a cat litter in his bedroom..
> so he is getting indoor care @ night in Ross's room , & outdoors
> during the day as long as the good weather continues.. in the small
> run. (we have the ok on that one..)
>
> Ringo was a stray when we met him, so he loves being out there. In
> fact he gets quite strop when I won't let him out.
> I think the only thing that I have decided, is that he will never be
> allowed outside the confines of the garden again. It is a shame, but I
> can't allow for that to happen after recent events..it simply isn't
> worth it.
>
> I do blame myself, but having said that I guess some lessons are
> learnt the hard way. It was just a pity that it was @ Ringo's expense
> sadly.

In the US, we're much more likely to keep our cats inside--but that's
in large part because we have so many more danger. In rural areas,
fishers and bobcats can easily take a housecat, and bears and coyotes
in some suburban areas--the coyotes can come even into cities. We just
have a lot more predators for whom a housecat is anything from a good
meal to a tasty snack.

You've mostly only got motor vehicles and human sickos to worry about,
and who actually THINKS about someone being sick enough to do
something like this? Until it happens, I mean?

But most cats, with an interesting enough indoor environment, adjust
quite well to staying in, even if they've been outdoor cats before,
and Ringo's unfortunate experience may curb some of his desire to roam
and explore, especially if he has access to a protected outdoor run.

> Cindy came up with a brilliant idea, of offering a reward for
> information leading to the arrest of the person or people that did
> this to him.
> I have had a chat with a couple of the families who were also affected
> by this spree of BB gun shots on their cats, and they are willing to
> chip into bumping up the reward, so now all we have to do is run off
> the reward posters & place them all over the village...
>
> Mummy of the kittens, Tiggy, is doing quite well & her foster mummy is
> doing a magnificent job of looking after them.
> we owe foster mum Big Time because she really has done all of the work
> for us. I consider us as very lucky to find such a gentle cat to take
> care of the kittens for us, & so willingly too...

All good news!

> Things really are pulling together @ last
> Be good to hear your recent news too?
> Great to hear you around again...

A couple of months ago I decided I'd been without a dog long enough--
the cats are great, but they won't go for walks with me!:) I started
going to dog shows, talking to people with small dogs (small house, no
yard, therefore no big dog possible). My choices quickly narrowed down
to a miniature poodle or a Chinese Crested (Powderpuff; no hairless
dog would be a good walking companion in New England in the winter),
and the Chinese Cresteds are just impossible cute and sweet. So I
talked to some breeders, and got referred to other people, until I
talked to a woman in Rhode Island, who said she didn't have what I was
looking for (female, puff, preferably not a young puppy because of my
work schedule), but she'd ask other breeders--and then she called me
back to tell me to call this breeder in Maine, who was looking to
place an eleven-month-old Puff female. She'd been sold as a show dog,
and was now 14" high at the shoulder! The horror, the horror! (the
standard on Cresteds is 13".) So her original buyer wanted to return
her and get a show-quality puppy...

So now I have a sweet, affectionate, slightly traumatized little girl,
who's nevertheless very eager to please, and wants to make friends
with my cats. (Eight months in a home where she card for but not
especially loved, shipped air cargo from the south to New England last
Wednesday morning, got reaquainted with the home of her puppyhood,
then on Sunday afternoon takes two-hour car ride to a new, new
home...) She's settling in nicely, though she still has to learn her
new schedule and that I can, indeed, be trusted to come home at the
end of the work day.

Lis

IBen Getiner
March 31st 07, 04:18 AM
On Mar 23, 11:21 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> Words fail me....
>

Common sense apparently fails you, too.. If you used any, you wouldn't
be in this mess. But that presupposes that you have a working brain...

> Last night I went outside to call Ringo in & when there was no
> response, I knew in my gut that there was something Very Wrong Because
> Ringo is always here for dinner time....
>
> I searched the front of the house, then out the back, but there was no
> Ringo.
> I decided to leave it half an hour but when the time was up, we set
> out on a search party to see where he was hanging out & why he had not
> simply come home when we called him. By this time I was in near
> frantic panic, because it is soooo out of character....
>
> Our neighbors kids joined in the search,& by 7.15pm we had over 8
> people looking for him - he is ever such a popular puss because he is
> so friendly & will allow anyone to give him tunny tickles..
> We continued to search, & kept in contact by mobile (cell phone!)
>
> At around 8.10pm, my son Ross found him. He was lying on his side in
> the meadow under a hedge panting. Ross called me right away & when I
> reached him, I could see that Ringo was panting & he had blood all
> over his fur just under his left eye & just under his right fore leg.
> I didn't have to guess too long to see what had happened to him...
> He had been shot, but I wasn't sure what with.
>
> Paul joined me, & we lifted him up onto a board & covered him with a
> blanket. I called the vet from the meadow & asked if he would see
> Ringo, & he told us to handle whim with care & bring him straight down
> there.
> It was obvious that Ringo was in shock & shivering too. I had no idea
> how long he had lain there, but the last time I could remember seeing
> him, was around 5.30pm, so we don't know what time this had happened.
> You wouldn't believe how fast my trusty old Ford escort shot down the
> motorway, I would never have believed it could go that fast,
> seriously!!
>
> On arrival, we were met, & he was seen straight away. I went into the
> consultation room with him, & the vet had a quick look & told me that
> he had to get an xray done as fast as possible, & then onto theater if
> nessacery to get the pellets out, because he was conerned that the
> pellet might have penetrated some of his organs & the fear of him
> dying of shock was quite possible, so they wanted to get him seen to
> as fast as possible, so we left them to get on with it.
>
> It is such a terrible feeling You feel so helpless;o(
>

TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ROAMING PET. Then you would be stuck
feeling oh, so helpless! Your cat was probably killing someone's
ducks or chickens. Or spraying all over their front porch. You're the
one who let him roam. Why do you now attempt to deny a homeowner his
right to drive the little rounder away? Don't THEY have any rights? I
mean, after all, "Ringo" was where he shouldn't be. That's why he got
waxed, most likely. You're lucky they didn't lay out poison or a trap
of some kind. Or worse yet, use a real gun.
You take no responsibility for your pets, you deserve what they get.
They don't, but you do. But at least you feel some pain. Which is
good. If I were your cat, I'd be fairly happy about it...

> The vet already had assisting staff to help him because they have a 24
> hour facility, so they were able to proceed immediately...
> We were told to go home and that they would call us as soon as they
> had any news for us. Just over an hour and a half later, we got a call
> to say that Ringo had got through the surgery. They managed to get the
> pellet out of his foreleg & it was logged into his bone, & also that
> he had got the pellet out of his jaw, but he wasn't sure if Ringo lost
> his sight in his out of his left eye, because it was logged so near to
> the optic nerve that he did consider leaving it in case he caused more
> damage than was already done. He also told us that the one in his leg
> was shot at almost blank rang too
>

Boo-****ing-HOO. Why are you such an irresponsible pet owner? I bet
your kids are holy terrors, too. And I'll bet I'm right, too..

> As you can imagine, we shot down there to see him, but he was very
> sedated, & didn't manage much more than a hand lick & an ear tickle.
> I Can't describe the RAGE that we feel, knowing that someone who lives
> near us had thought it funny to shoot him ,quite possibly knowing that
> it was our cat too..
> Whilst waiting for Ringo to come out of surgery, we called the police
> to alert them to the fact that we have a loose canon in the
> neighborhood, & we also called the RSPCA to alert them too, only to
> find out that Ringo was only one of four cats who had been shot
> yesterday on our nearest estate.
>

You mean you didn't involve the FBI....? Why not give them a call? Or
how about the Secret Service? I mean, where is it written that a
roaming, lawless, pilfering cat should have any less right to justice
than an American president...? Get busy. Pick up that phone today. And
then proceed to get carted away to the loony bin. Where you belong...

Anyway, you're just waiting your time.. BBs cannot be traced. Too bad.
Too, too bad indeed..

> I feel sick to the pit of my stomach knowing that someone could
> possibly do that to a poor defenseless cat, who has done them no harm
> at all. How could anyone shoot a cat at blank range? It wouldn't
> surprise me if it turns out to be a child who's parents have bought it
> for them as a gift.....
>
> THEY SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL...!!!!!
>

Why would you wanna up and do that? A gun is merely a tool. And just
like any other tool, it can be misused if the wrong person gets ahold
of it. But that's HIS wrong. Not the gun! Would you have cars made
illegal because some kill cats?
And in this case, it looks like this particular tool was put to good
use. Irresponsible cat owners are the ones who should be held
liable... Then poor the BB gun owners out there wouldn't have to take
the rap for your sins.


> Sorry, but I feel so ANGRY
>

Good! It doesn't appear that you've learned anything, so I have a
little piece of advice for you.... GET USED TO IT.

> Ringo is still in special care room, but doing much better today. He
> remains sedated & is responding well. He still has his hydration drip
> in his other fore leg, but he did try to lap some water earlier today.
> He looks like a mini mummy with all of the bandages round his head and
> his leg where they splinted him & strapped him under his fore leg..
>

Why did you let poor Ringo down like that? He's just a cat. He doesn't
know he's not welcome killing the neighbor's goldfish. He depends on
YOU for that part.

> My kids are keeping their ears open to see if they can find out who
> has a new BB pellet gun recently, Or who was in the meadow last night
> around the same time last night. No doubt even if we do find out how
> it was, the worst that will happen is that they *MIGHT* get a rap on
> the knuckles & a public caution. In fact the best thing we could hope
> for, is for the police to remeove the gun to stop it happening
> again..If we are lucky, that is
>

Just because a person has a BB gun... that doesn't mean a bloomin'
thing. BB guns are purrrrrfectly legal, you know. Well, at least until
you have them all melted down into Hilary Clinton campaign buttons.

> Whats to stop them going straight out to buy another one tomorrow..?
>

If you keep control of your pet, you won't need to worry about that!

> I hope that I don't find out who did it, because right now, I am too
> angry to deal with it
>

Then my advice is to stay away from mirrors...

> The boys used to wonder why I wouldn't allow them to have a BB gun, &
> yesterday the learnt exactly why..not one of them wants one now. I
> think that they are as outraged as we are
>

Typical over-emotional female. Can't even begin to understand the
concept of defense. Can't see it because YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO!
You're a frigging WOMAN. Men are the defenders of the family. It is in
our genes to do this exactly as much as it's in your genes to be the
gatherer of goods and the cradle of life. But in your typical
deficient female fashion, you would punish the 98 percent of law-
abiding boys... take away THEIR right to learn one of the first
lessons of manhood.... just to punish the irresponsible 2 percent!
This is why women should have no place in politics, in any way, shape
or form. Bet your kids are REAL piece of work. Messed up is the word.
Bet their still trying to figure out why they're being lumped in with
the bad 2 percent all the time when they're probably not... Great
lesson there, Mom... Too bad you took it upon your ill-equipped azz to
teach it. Where is Mister Sheelagh? Cowering in the corner, no
doubt..

> Sheelagh
> [i.e.: FOOL]



IBen Getiner

Barry
March 31st 07, 04:29 AM
On Mar 23, 11:21 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:

> The boys used to wonder why I wouldn't allow them to have a BB gun, &
> yesterday the learnt exactly why..not one of them wants one now. I
> think that they are as outraged as we are
>
> Sheelagh

bull crap!

IBen Getiner
March 31st 07, 04:37 AM
On Mar 30, 10:18�pm, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
> On Mar 23, 11:21 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > Words fail me....
>
> Common sense apparently fails you, too.. If you used any, you wouldn't
> be in this mess. But that presupposes that you have a working brain...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Last night I went outside to call Ringo in & when there was no
> > response, I knew in my gut that there was something Very Wrong Because
> > Ringo is always here for dinner time....
>
> > I searched the front of the house, then out the back, but there was no
> > Ringo.
> > I decided to leave it half an hour but when the time was up, we set
> > out on a search party to see where he was hanging out & why he had not
> > simply come home when we called him. By this time I was in near
> > frantic panic, because it is soooo out of character....
>
> > Our neighbors kids joined in the search,& by 7.15pm we had over 8
> > people looking for him - he is ever such a popular puss because he is
> > so friendly & will allow anyone to give him tunny tickles..
> > We continued to search, & kept in contact by mobile (cell phone!)
>
> > At around 8.10pm, my son Ross found him. He was lying on his side in
> > the meadow under a hedge panting. Ross called me right away & when I
> > reached him, I could see that Ringo was panting & he had blood all
> > over his fur just under his left eye & just under his right fore leg.
> > I didn't have to guess too long to see what had happened to him...
> > He had been shot, but I wasn't sure what with.
>
> > Paul joined me, & we lifted him up onto a board & covered him with a
> > blanket. I called the vet from the meadow & asked if he would see
> > Ringo, & he told us to handle whim with care & bring him straight down
> > there.
> > It was obvious that Ringo was in shock & shivering too. I had no idea
> > how long he had lain there, but the last time I could remember seeing
> > him, was around 5.30pm, so we don't know what time this had happened.
> > You wouldn't believe how fast my trusty old Ford escort shot down the
> > motorway, I would never have believed it could go that fast,
> > seriously!!
>
> > On arrival, we were met, & he was seen straight away. I went into the
> > consultation room with him, & the vet had a quick look & told me that
> > he had to get an xray done as fast as possible, & then onto theater if
> > nessacery to get the pellets out, because he was conerned that the
> > pellet might have penetrated some of his organs & the fear of him
> > dying of shock was quite possible, so they wanted to get him seen to
> > as fast as possible, so we left them to get on with it.
>
> > It is such a terrible feeling You feel so helpless;o(
>
> TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ROAMING PET. Then you would be stuck
> feeling oh, so helpless! *Your cat was probably killing someone's
> ducks or chickens. Or spraying all over their front porch. You're the
> one who let him roam. Why do you now attempt to deny a homeowner his
> right to drive the little rounder away? Don't THEY have any rights? I
> mean, after all, "Ringo" was where he shouldn't be. That's why he got
> waxed, most likely. You're lucky they didn't lay out poison or a trap
> of some kind. Or worse yet, use a real gun.
> You take no responsibility for your pets, you deserve what they get.
> They don't, but you do. But at least you feel some pain. Which is
> good. If I were your cat, I'd be fairly happy about it...
>
> > The vet already had assisting staff to help him because they have a 24
> > hour facility, so they were able to proceed immediately...
> > We were told to go home and that they would call us as soon as they
> > had any news for us. Just over an hour and a half later, we got a call
> > to say that Ringo had got through the surgery. They managed to get the
> > pellet out of his foreleg & it was logged into his bone, & also that
> > he had got the pellet out of his jaw, but he wasn't sure if Ringo lost
> > his sight in his out of his left eye, because it was logged so near to
> > the optic nerve that he did consider leaving it in case he caused more
> > damage than was already done. He also told us that the one in his leg
> > was shot at almost blank rang too
>
> Boo-****ing-HOO. Why are you such an irresponsible pet owner? I bet
> your kids are holy terrors, too. And I'll bet I'm right, too..
>
> > As you can imagine, we shot down there to see him, but he was very
> > sedated, & didn't manage much more than a hand lick & an ear tickle.
> > I Can't describe the RAGE that we feel, knowing that someone who lives
> > near us had thought it funny to shoot him ,quite possibly knowing that
> > it was our cat too..
> > Whilst waiting for Ringo to come out of surgery, we called the police
> > to alert them to the fact that we have a loose canon in the
> > neighborhood, & we also called the RSPCA to alert them too, only to
> > find out that Ringo was only one of four cats who had been shot
> > yesterday *on our nearest estate.
>
> You mean you didn't involve the FBI....? Why not give them a call? Or
> how about the Secret Service? I mean, where is it written that a
> roaming, lawless, pilfering cat should have any less right to justice
> than an American president...? Get busy. Pick up that phone today. And
> then proceed to get carted away to the loony bin. Where you belong...
>
> Anyway, you're just waiting your time.. BBs cannot be traced. Too bad.
> Too, too bad indeed..
>
> > I feel sick to the pit of my stomach knowing that someone could
> > possibly do that to a poor defenseless cat, who has done them no harm
> > at all. How could anyone shoot a cat at blank range? It wouldn't
> > surprise me if it turns out to be a child who's parents have bought it
> > for them as a gift.....
>
> > THEY SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL...!!!!!
>
> Why would you wanna up and do that? A gun is merely a tool. And just
> like any other tool, it can be misused if the wrong person gets ahold
> of it. But that's HIS wrong. Not the gun! Would you have cars made
> illegal because some kill cats?
> And in this case, it looks like this particular tool was put to good
> use. Irresponsible cat owners are the ones who should be held
> liable... Then poor the BB gun owners out there wouldn't have to take
> the rap for your sins.
>
> > Sorry, but I feel so ANGRY
>
> Good! It doesn't appear that you've learned anything, so I have a
> little piece of advice for you.... GET USED TO IT.
>
> > Ringo is still in special care room, but doing much better today. He
> > remains sedated & is responding well. He still has his hydration drip
> > in his other fore leg, but he did try to lap some water earlier today.
> > He looks like a mini mummy with all of the bandages round his head and
> > his leg where they splinted him & strapped him under his fore leg..
>
> Why did you let poor Ringo down like that? He's just a cat. He doesn't
> know he's not welcome killing the neighbor's goldfish. He depends on
> YOU for that part.
>
> > *My kids are keeping their ears open to see if they can find out who
> > has a new BB pellet gun recently, Or who was in the meadow last night
> > around the same time last night. No doubt even if we do find out how
> > it was, the worst that will happen is that they *MIGHT* get a rap on
> > the knuckles & a public caution. In fact the best thing we could hope
> > for, is for the police to remeove the gun to stop it happening
> > again..If we are lucky, that is
>
> Just because a person has a BB gun... that doesn't mean a bloomin'
> thing. BB guns are purrrrrfectly legal, you know. Well, at least until
> you have them all melted down into Hilary Clinton campaign buttons.
>
> > Whats to stop them going straight out to buy another one tomorrow..?
>
> If you keep control of your pet, you won't need to worry about that!
>
> > I hope that I don't find out who did it, because right now, I am too
> > angry to deal with it
>
> Then my advice is to stay away from mirrors...
>
> > The boys used to wonder why I wouldn't allow them to have a BB gun, &
> > yesterday the learnt exactly why..not one of them wants one now. I
> > think that they are as outraged as we are
>
> Typical over-emotional female. Can't even begin to understand the
> concept of defense. Can't see it because YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO!
> You're a frigging WOMAN. Men are the defenders of the family. It is in
> our genes to do this exactly as much as it's in your genes to be the
> gatherer of goods and the cradle of life. But in your typical
> deficient female fashion, you would punish the 98 percent of law-
> abiding boys... take away THEIR right to learn one of the first
> lessons of manhood.... just to punish the irresponsible 2 percent!
> This is why women should have no place in politics, in any way, shape
> or form. Bet your kids are REAL piece of work. Messed up is the word.
> Bet their still trying to figure out why they're being lumped in with
> the bad 2 percent all the time when they're probably not... Great
> lesson there, Mom... Too bad you took it upon your ill-equipped azz to
> teach it. Where is Mister Sheelagh? Cowering in the corner, no
> doubt..
>
> > Sheelagh
> > [i.e.: FOOL]
>
> IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Bet your sons are homosexuals, too. With a modern-day duel-role Mommy
as an example, it's no doubt.
Ever notice how many faggots we got coming up today? They seem to have
struck their timely appearance around the same time that boys began
being raised without their fathers. Just a coincidence though,
huhh...? The queers were probably here all the time. In fact, we're
ALL probable latent homosexuals and just don't know it yet! LOL...!!
Live the lie. You have too. It's better than the truth you've made...


IBen Getiner

Barry
March 31st 07, 05:35 AM
On Mar 30, 10:37 pm, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
> On Mar 30, 10:18?pm, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 23, 11:21 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > Words fail me....
>
> > Common sense apparently fails you, too.. If you used any, you wouldn't
> > be in this mess. But that presupposes that you have a working brain...
>
> > > Last night I went outside to call Ringo in & when there was no
> > > response, I knew in my gut that there was something Very Wrong Because
> > > Ringo is always here for dinner time....
>
> > > I searched the front of the house, then out the back, but there was no
> > > Ringo.
> > > I decided to leave it half an hour but when the time was up, we set
> > > out on a search party to see where he was hanging out & why he had not
> > > simply come home when we called him. By this time I was in near
> > > frantic panic, because it is soooo out of character....
>
> > > Our neighbors kids joined in the search,& by 7.15pm we had over 8
> > > people looking for him - he is ever such a popular puss because he is
> > > so friendly & will allow anyone to give him tunny tickles..
> > > We continued to search, & kept in contact by mobile (cell phone!)
>
> > > At around 8.10pm, my son Ross found him. He was lying on his side in
> > > the meadow under a hedge panting. Ross called me right away & when I
> > > reached him, I could see that Ringo was panting & he had blood all
> > > over his fur just under his left eye & just under his right fore leg.
> > > I didn't have to guess too long to see what had happened to him...
> > > He had been shot, but I wasn't sure what with.
>
> > > Paul joined me, & we lifted him up onto a board & covered him with a
> > > blanket. I called the vet from the meadow & asked if he would see
> > > Ringo, & he told us to handle whim with care & bring him straight down
> > > there.
> > > It was obvious that Ringo was in shock & shivering too. I had no idea
> > > how long he had lain there, but the last time I could remember seeing
> > > him, was around 5.30pm, so we don't know what time this had happened.
> > > You wouldn't believe how fast my trusty old Ford escort shot down the
> > > motorway, I would never have believed it could go that fast,
> > > seriously!!
>
> > > On arrival, we were met, & he was seen straight away. I went into the
> > > consultation room with him, & the vet had a quick look & told me that
> > > he had to get an xray done as fast as possible, & then onto theater if
> > > nessacery to get the pellets out, because he was conerned that the
> > > pellet might have penetrated some of his organs & the fear of him
> > > dying of shock was quite possible, so they wanted to get him seen to
> > > as fast as possible, so we left them to get on with it.
>
> > > It is such a terrible feeling You feel so helpless;o(
>
> > TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ROAMING PET. Then you would be stuck
> > feeling oh, so helpless! ?Your cat was probably killing someone's
> > ducks or chickens. Or spraying all over their front porch. You're the
> > one who let him roam. Why do you now attempt to deny a homeowner his
> > right to drive the little rounder away? Don't THEY have any rights? I
> > mean, after all, "Ringo" was where he shouldn't be. That's why he got
> > waxed, most likely. You're lucky they didn't lay out poison or a trap
> > of some kind. Or worse yet, use a real gun.
> > You take no responsibility for your pets, you deserve what they get.
> > They don't, but you do. But at least you feel some pain. Which is
> > good. If I were your cat, I'd be fairly happy about it...
>
> > > The vet already had assisting staff to help him because they have a 24
> > > hour facility, so they were able to proceed immediately...
> > > We were told to go home and that they would call us as soon as they
> > > had any news for us. Just over an hour and a half later, we got a call
> > > to say that Ringo had got through the surgery. They managed to get the
> > > pellet out of his foreleg & it was logged into his bone, & also that
> > > he had got the pellet out of his jaw, but he wasn't sure if Ringo lost
> > > his sight in his out of his left eye, because it was logged so near to
> > > the optic nerve that he did consider leaving it in case he caused more
> > > damage than was already done. He also told us that the one in his leg
> > > was shot at almost blank rang too
>
> > Boo-****ing-HOO. Why are you such an irresponsible pet owner? I bet
> > your kids are holy terrors, too. And I'll bet I'm right, too..
>
> > > As you can imagine, we shot down there to see him, but he was very
> > > sedated, & didn't manage much more than a hand lick & an ear tickle.
> > > I Can't describe the RAGE that we feel, knowing that someone who lives
> > > near us had thought it funny to shoot him ,quite possibly knowing that
> > > it was our cat too..
> > > Whilst waiting for Ringo to come out of surgery, we called the police
> > > to alert them to the fact that we have a loose canon in the
> > > neighborhood, & we also called the RSPCA to alert them too, only to
> > > find out that Ringo was only one of four cats who had been shot
> > > yesterday ?on our nearest estate.
>
> > You mean you didn't involve the FBI....? Why not give them a call? Or
> > how about the Secret Service? I mean, where is it written that a
> > roaming, lawless, pilfering cat should have any less right to justice
> > than an American president...? Get busy. Pick up that phone today. And
> > then proceed to get carted away to the loony bin. Where you belong...
>
> > Anyway, you're just waiting your time.. BBs cannot be traced. Too bad.
> > Too, too bad indeed..
>
> > > I feel sick to the pit of my stomach knowing that someone could
> > > possibly do that to a poor defenseless cat, who has done them no harm
> > > at all. How could anyone shoot a cat at blank range? It wouldn't
> > > surprise me if it turns out to be a child who's parents have bought it
> > > for them as a gift.....
>
> > > THEY SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL...!!!!!
>
> > Why would you wanna up and do that? A gun is merely a tool. And just
> > like any other tool, it can be misused if the wrong person gets ahold
> > of it. But that's HIS wrong. Not the gun! Would you have cars made
> > illegal because some kill cats?
> > And in this case, it looks like this particular tool was put to good
> > use. Irresponsible cat owners are the ones who should be held
> > liable... Then poor the BB gun owners out there wouldn't have to take
> > the rap for your sins.
>
> > > Sorry, but I feel so ANGRY
>
> > Good! It doesn't appear that you've learned anything, so I have a
> > little piece of advice for you.... GET USED TO IT.
>
> > > Ringo is still in special care room, but doing much better today. He
> > > remains sedated & is responding well. He still has his hydration drip
> > > in his other fore leg, but he did try to lap some water earlier today.
> > > He looks like a mini mummy with all of the bandages round his head and
> > > his leg where they splinted him & strapped him under his fore leg..
>
> > Why did you let poor Ringo down like that? He's just a cat. He doesn't
> > know he's not welcome killing the neighbor's goldfish. He depends on
> > YOU for that part.
>
> > > ?My kids are keeping their ears open to see if they can find out who
> > > has a new BB pellet gun recently, Or who was in the meadow last night
> > > around the same time last night. No doubt even if we do find out how
> > > it was, the worst that will happen is that they *MIGHT* get a rap on
> > > the knuckles & a public caution. In fact the best thing we could hope
> > > for, is for the police to remeove the gun to stop it happening
> > > again..If we are lucky, that is
>
> > Just because a person has a BB gun... that doesn't mean a bloomin'
> > thing. BB guns are purrrrrfectly legal, you know. Well, at least until
> > you have them all melted down into Hilary Clinton campaign buttons.
>
> > > Whats to stop them going straight out to buy another one tomorrow..?
>
> > If you keep control of your pet, you won't need to worry about that!
>
> > > I hope that I don't find out who did it, because right now, I am too
> > > angry to deal with it
>
> > Then my advice is to stay away from mirrors...
>
> > > The boys used to wonder why I wouldn't allow them to have a BB gun, &
> > > yesterday the learnt exactly why..not one of them wants one now. I
> > > think that they are as outraged as we are
>
> > Typical over-emotional female. Can't even begin to understand the
> > concept of defense. Can't see it because YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO!
> > You're a frigging WOMAN. Men are the defenders of the family. It is in
> > our genes to do this exactly as much as it's in your genes to be the
> > gatherer of goods and the cradle of life. But in your typical
> > deficient female fashion, you would punish the 98 percent of law-
> > abiding boys... take away THEIR right to learn one of the first
> > lessons of manhood.... just to punish the irresponsible 2 percent!
> > This is why women should have no place in politics, in any way, shape
> > or form. Bet your kids are REAL piece of work. Messed up is the word.
> > Bet their still trying to figure out why they're being lumped in with
> > the bad 2 percent all the time when they're probably not... Great
> > lesson there, Mom... Too bad you took it upon your ill-equipped azz to
> > teach it. Where is Mister Sheelagh? Cowering in the corner, no
> > doubt..
>
> > > Sheelagh
> > > [i.e.: FOOL]
>
> > IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Bet your sons are homosexuals, too. With a modern-day duel-role Mommy
> as an example, it's no doubt.
> Ever notice how many faggots we got coming up today? They seem to have
> struck their timely appearance around the same time that boys began
> being raised without their fathers. Just a coincidence though,
> huhh...? The queers were probably here all the time. In fact, we're
> ALL probable latent homosexuals and just don't know it yet! LOL...!!
> Live the lie. You have too. It's better than the truth you've made...
>
> IBen Getiner

nuh nuh nuh

sheelagh
March 31st 07, 03:11 PM
On 31 Mar, 04:29, "Barry" > wrote:
> On Mar 23, 11:21 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > The boys used to wonder why I wouldn't allow them to have a BB gun, &
> > yesterday the learnt exactly why..not one of them wants one now. I
> > think that they are as outraged as we are
>
> > Sheelagh
>
> bull crap!

I'm sorry you feel that way.
I thought you knew me better than that.
I have never allowed a gun in pour home since one of my best freinds
was shot in a hunting accident 15 years ago...

Also, what is your problem?
S.

Lis
March 31st 07, 03:31 PM
On Mar 31, 10:11 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 31 Mar, 04:29, "Barry" > wrote:
>
> > On Mar 23, 11:21 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > The boys used to wonder why I wouldn't allow them to have a BB gun, &
> > > yesterday the learnt exactly why..not one of them wants one now. I
> > > think that they are as outraged as we are
>
> > > Sheelagh
>
> > bull crap!
>
> I'm sorry you feel that way.
> I thought you knew me better than that.
> I have never allowed a gun in pour home since one of my best freinds
> was shot in a hunting accident 15 years ago...
>
> Also, what is your problem?
> S.

Sheelagh, those idiots' problems are not something you can help by
wasting your time replying to them. How's Ringo?

Lis

sheelagh
March 31st 07, 03:50 PM
On 31 Mar, 04:18, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
> On Mar 23, 11:21 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > Words fail me....
>
> Common sense apparently fails you, too.. If you used any, you wouldn't
> be in this mess. But that presupposes that you have a working brain...

I don't live in the USA, & it is normal to allow your cat to roam in
the UK.

> > Last night I went outside to call Ringo in & when there was no
> > response, I knew in my gut that there was something Very Wrong Because
> > Ringo is always here for dinner time....
>
> > I searched the front of the house, then out the back, but there was no
> > Ringo.
> > I decided to leave it half an hour but when the time was up, we set
> > out on a search party to see where he was hanging out & why he had not
> > simply come home when we called him. By this time I was in near
> > frantic panic, because it is soooo out of character....
>
> > Our neighbors kids joined in the search,& by 7.15pm we had over 8
> > people looking for him - he is ever such a popular puss because he is
> > so friendly & will allow anyone to give him tunny tickles..
> > We continued to search, & kept in contact by mobile (cell phone!)
>
> > At around 8.10pm, my son Ross found him. He was lying on his side in
> > the meadow under a hedge panting. Ross called me right away & when I
> > reached him, I could see that Ringo was panting & he had blood all
> > over his fur just under his left eye & just under his right fore leg.
> > I didn't have to guess too long to see what had happened to him...
> > He had been shot, but I wasn't sure what with.
>
> > Paul joined me, & we lifted him up onto a board & covered him with a
> > blanket. I called the vet from the meadow & asked if he would see
> > Ringo, & he told us to handle whim with care & bring him straight down
> > there.
> > It was obvious that Ringo was in shock & shivering too. I had no idea
> > how long he had lain there, but the last time I could remember seeing
> > him, was around 5.30pm, so we don't know what time this had happened.
> > You wouldn't believe how fast my trusty old Ford escort shot down the
> > motorway, I would never have believed it could go that fast,
> > seriously!!
>
> > On arrival, we were met, & he was seen straight away. I went into the
> > consultation room with him, & the vet had a quick look & told me that
> > he had to get an xray done as fast as possible, & then onto theater if
> > necessary to get the pellets out, because he was concerned that the
> > pellet might have penetrated some of his organs & the fear of him
> > dying of shock was quite possible, so they wanted to get him seen to
> > as fast as possible, so we left them to get on with it.
>
> > It is such a terrible feeling You feel so helpless;o(


> TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ROAMING PET. Then you would be stuck
> feeling oh, so helpless! Your cat was probably killing some one's
> ducks or chickens. Or spraying all over their front porch. You're the
> one who let him roam. Why do you now attempt to deny a homeowner his
> right to drive the little rounder away? Don't THEY have any rights? I
> mean, after all, "Ringo" was where he shouldn't be. That's why he got
> waxed, most likely. You're lucky they didn't lay out poison or a trap
> of some kind. Or worse yet, use a real gun.
> You take no responsibility for your pets, you deserve what they get.
> They don't, but you do. But at least you feel some pain. Which is
> good. If I were your cat, I'd be fairly happy about it...

I do take responsibility for him. If you bothered to read the whole
thread, you would have seen that I held my hands up to being at fault
for allowing him out go out.

He was a stray when we took him in last Xmas, so it is in his nature
to go where he wants to.

Ringo was in the middle of a field when we found him shot, & there are
laws that protect cats from being shot over here.
I fail to see how that was annoying anyone in the middle of a field!!
(fallow land that hasn't been used for anything except for children &
people walking their animals for years!!)
I did take the responsibility as well as the bill from the vet too.

Had I not taken him in, the chances are that he would have died there
instead.

> > The vet already had assisting staff to help him because they have a 24
> > hour facility, so they were able to proceed immediately...
> > We were told to go home and that they would call us as soon as they
> > had any news for us. Just over an hour and a half later, we got a call
> > to say that Ringo had got through the surgery. They managed to get the
> > pellet out of his foreleg & it was logged into his bone, & also that
> > he had got the pellet out of his jaw, but he wasn't sure if Ringo lost
> > his sight in his out of his left eye, because it was logged so near to
> > the optic nerve that he did consider leaving it in case he caused more
> > damage than was already done. He also told us that the one in his leg
> > was shot at almost blank rang too
>
> Boo-****ing-HOO. Why are you such an irresponsible pet owner? I bet
> your kids are holy terrors, too. And I'll bet I'm right, too..

WRONG!!

> > As you can imagine, we shot down there to see him, but he was very
> > sedated, & didn't manage much more than a hand lick & an ear tickle.
> > I Can't describe the RAGE that we feel, knowing that someone who lives
> > near us had thought it funny to shoot him ,quite possibly knowing that
> > it was our cat too..
> > Whilst waiting for Ringo to come out of surgery, we called the police
> > to alert them to the fact that we have a loose canon in the
> > neighborhood, & we also called the RSPCA to alert them too, only to
> > find out that Ringo was only one of four cats who had been shot
> > yesterday on our nearest estate.
>
> You mean you didn't involve the FBI....? Why not give them a call? Or
> how about the Secret Service? I mean, where is it written that a
> roaming, lawless, pilfering cat should have any less right to justice
> than an American president...? Get busy. Pick up that phone today. And
> then proceed to get carted away to the loony bin. Where you belong...

I would involve the pope if it meant finding out who did this to him
asshole!!

Speaking of idiots, why don't you sign yourself in the loony bin
there?

> Anyway, you're just waiting your time.. BBs cannot be traced. Too bad.
> Too, too bad indeed..

Wrong again, wise guy

> > I feel sick to the pit of my stomach knowing that someone could
> > possibly do that to a poor defenseless cat, who has done them no harm
> > at all. How could anyone shoot a cat at blank range? It wouldn't
> > surprise me if it turns out to be a child who's parents have bought it
> > for them as a gift.....
>
> > THEY SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL...!!!!!
>
> Why would you wanna up and do that? A gun is merely a tool. And just
> like any other tool, it can be misused if the wrong person gets ahold
> of it. But that's HIS wrong. Not the gun! Would you have cars made
> illegal because some kill cats?
> And in this case, it looks like this particular tool was put to good
> use. Irresponsible cat owners are the ones who should be held
> liable... Then poor the BB gun owners out there wouldn't have to take
> the rap for your sins.

In the hands of a child, it is a lethal weapon.
This has been noted time and time again in our country freak ..& if
you cared one iota about cats, you would agree with me too.

The reason you are picking holes in me is because you are a male
chauvinist pig & I have told you so. You see this as a chance to file
pay-back, no other reason what so ever.....
> > Sorry, but I feel so ANGRY
>
> Good! It doesn't appear that you've learned anything, so I have a
> little piece of advice for you.... GET USED TO IT.

NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> > Ringo is still in special care room, but doing much better today. He
> > remains sedated & is responding well. He still has his hydration drip
> > in his other fore leg, but he did try to lap some water earlier today.
> > He looks like a mini mummy with all of the bandages round his head and
> > his leg where they splinted him & strapped him under his fore leg..
>
> Why did you let poor Ringo down like that? He's just a cat. He doesn't
> know he's not welcome killing the neighbor's goldfish. He depends on
> YOU for that part.

I let him into the back garden, because he doesn't normally roam at
all.
I had no reason to believe he would roam that day, but he did, & I
TAKE FULL REPOSNSIBILITY FOR THAT ALONE.

> > My kids are keeping their ears open to see if they can find out who
> > has a new BB pellet gun recently, Or who was in the meadow last night
> > around the same time last night. No doubt even if we do find out how
> > it was, the worst that will happen is that they *MIGHT* get a rap on
> > the knuckles & a public caution. In fact the best thing we could hope
> > for, is for the police to remove the gun to stop it happening
> > again..If we are lucky, that is
>
> Just because a person has a BB gun... that doesn't mean a bloomin'
> thing. BB guns are purrrrrfectly legal, you know. Well, at least until
> you have them all melted down into Hilary Clinton campaign buttons.

I don't live in the states idiot.......
They might be in the USA, but in our country, it is a crime to allow a
child to wield one, & it also a crime for a person to use one to harm
an animal.
If you want to shoot animals over here, you require a gun license, a
police check into your previous character, & be able to store your gun
in a secure place away from anyone other than yourself. If anyone does
get a hold of your gun, then you deserve the the consequences....
> > Whats to stop them going straight out to buy another one tomorrow..?
>
> If you keep control of your pet, you won't need to worry about that!

Yes I would. Shooting cats is don't confined to public land, in fact
most cats that are shot are fired at from private property, & I will
not be made to stop my cats walking around my garden. It is my land, I
will allow my cats the pleasure of walking in the sun if they wish
to.
What I won't do, is ever allow them off my land again.

> > I hope that I don't find out who did it, because right now, I am too
> > angry to deal with it
>
> Then my advice is to stay away from mirrors...
Funny aren't you....

> > The boys used to wonder why I wouldn't allow them to have a BB gun, &
> > yesterday the learnt exactly why..not one of them wants one now. I
> > think that they are as outraged as we are
>
> Typical over-emotional female. Can't even begin to understand the
> concept of defense. Can't see it because YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO!
> You're a frigging WOMAN. Men are the defenders of the family. It is in
> our genes to do this exactly as much as it's in your genes to be the
> gatherer of goods and the cradle of life. But in your typical
> deficient female fashion, you would punish the 98 percent of law-
> abiding boys... take away THEIR right to learn one of the first
> lessons of manhood.... just to punish the irresponsible 2 percent!
> This is why women should have no place in politics, in any way, shape
> or form. Bet your kids are REAL piece of work. Messed up is the word.
> Bet their still trying to figure out why they're being lumped in with
> the bad 2 percent all the time when they're probably not... Great
> lesson there, Mom... Too bad you took it upon your ill-equipped azz to
> teach it. Where is Mister Sheelagh? Cowering in the corner, no
> doubt..
If you men my partner, then say so.

You have stated your case for all to see, & I am sure that they will
all draw their own conclusions. There is no need for me to wise mouth
you, because there is no need. All you have done throughout this post
is make yourself look stupid......
> > Sheelagh
> > [i.e.: FOOL]
>
> IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
Wise Guy and chauvinist pig
> - Show quoted text -

sheelagh
March 31st 07, 04:18 PM
On 31 Mar, 15:31, "Lis" > wrote:
> On Mar 31, 10:11 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 31 Mar, 04:29, "Barry" > wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 23, 11:21 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > > The boys used to wonder why I wouldn't allow them to have a BB gun, &
> > > > yesterday the learnt exactly why..not one of them wants one now. I
> > > > think that they are as outraged as we are
>
> > > > Sheelagh
>
> > > bull crap!
>
> > I'm sorry you feel that way.
> > I thought you knew me better than that.
> > I have never allowed a gun in pour home since one of my best friends
> > was shot in a hunting accident 15 years ago...
>
> > Also, what is your problem?
> > S.
>
> Sheelagh, those idiots' problems are not something you can help by
> wasting your time replying to them. How's Ringo?
>
> Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Much better thank you.
He came home the day before yesterday, on pain meds and antibiotics
too. He has a weeks worth to take, then after that we have to go back
and have the stitches removed from his face & leg, in just over a
weeks time...

The day we collected him, he was in near rapture when we got him home,
giving us head buts and weaves in between visits to his food bowl
( just to make sure it was still there you understand, lol..Ringo
loves his food bowl)

I was expecting him to have a mobility problem because of his leg
being splinted still, but that is not the case at all. He just hops
about on three legs as though the fourth one is of no problem to him.
I didn't think that he would be able to get up the stairs either, but
I was wrong there too. Once he had made sure that everyone was where
he expected them to be, and the same regarding the cats too, he shot
up there to go and have a nap on Ross's bed with him..I don't need to
tell you how delighted Ross is to have him back home again;o)

I had intended to seperate him from the others, but there really
doesn't seem to be a reason to. I expected him not to be able to do
things like jump on the bed, but I was wrong. with that in mind, I
have allowed him to go out in the outside runs where he can catch a
few rays. He seems to be enjoying himself no end out there, in his
normal belly up postition, with all four paws in the air.

I intended to post yesterday, but events took over & I didn't get
round to it.

Cindy came up with the idea of offering a reward to the person who
leads us to the conviction of the perpitrators, so we were running off
posters to stick all over the village. Between ourselves and all of
the other families involved, we came up with a substantional
reward...& I have a feeling that it might have worked...

We are hoping that we might have some news either tonight or tomorrow
morning regarding who did it, suffice to say that the boys came
across two names that have been repeated a couple of times..
I am pleased that she came up with the idea. I should have thought of
it, but when your mind is doing constant overtime, you don't think the
way you really should do.
It's great to have hoim home though!!
S;o)

Lis
March 31st 07, 05:44 PM
On Mar 31, 11:18 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 31 Mar, 15:31, "Lis" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 31, 10:11 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > On 31 Mar, 04:29, "Barry" > wrote:
>
> > > > On Mar 23, 11:21 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > > > The boys used to wonder why I wouldn't allow them to have a BB gun, &
> > > > > yesterday the learnt exactly why..not one of them wants one now. I
> > > > > think that they are as outraged as we are
>
> > > > > Sheelagh
>
> > > > bull crap!
>
> > > I'm sorry you feel that way.
> > > I thought you knew me better than that.
> > > I have never allowed a gun in pour home since one of my best friends
> > > was shot in a hunting accident 15 years ago...
>
> > > Also, what is your problem?
> > > S.
>
> > Sheelagh, those idiots' problems are not something you can help by
> > wasting your time replying to them. How's Ringo?
>
> > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Much better thank you.
> He came home the day before yesterday, on pain meds and antibiotics
> too. He has a weeks worth to take, then after that we have to go back
> and have the stitches removed from his face & leg, in just over a
> weeks time...
>
> The day we collected him, he was in near rapture when we got him home,
> giving us head buts and weaves in between visits to his food bowl
> ( just to make sure it was still there you understand, lol..Ringo
> loves his food bowl)
>
> I was expecting him to have a mobility problem because of his leg
> being splinted still, but that is not the case at all. He just hops
> about on three legs as though the fourth one is of no problem to him.
> I didn't think that he would be able to get up the stairs either, but
> I was wrong there too. Once he had made sure that everyone was where
> he expected them to be, and the same regarding the cats too, he shot
> up there to go and have a nap on Ross's bed with him..I don't need to
> tell you how delighted Ross is to have him back home again;o)
>
> I had intended to seperate him from the others, but there really
> doesn't seem to be a reason to. I expected him not to be able to do
> things like jump on the bed, but I was wrong. with that in mind, I
> have allowed him to go out in the outside runs where he can catch a
> few rays. He seems to be enjoying himself no end out there, in his
> normal belly up postition, with all four paws in the air.
>
> I intended to post yesterday, but events took over & I didn't get
> round to it.
>
> Cindy came up with the idea of offering a reward to the person who
> leads us to the conviction of the perpitrators, so we were running off
> posters to stick all over the village. Between ourselves and all of
> the other families involved, we came up with a substantional
> reward...& I have a feeling that it might have worked...
>
> We are hoping that we might have some news either tonight or tomorrow
> morning regarding who did it, suffice to say that the boys came
> across two names that have been repeated a couple of times..
> I am pleased that she came up with the idea. I should have thought of
> it, but when your mind is doing constant overtime, you don't think the
> way you really should do.
> It's great to have hoim home though!!
> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

All great news! I hope you find the culprits, soon!

Lis

Barry
March 31st 07, 06:04 PM
On Mar 31, 9:11 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:

> Also, what is your problem?
> S.

Just checking... lol

:D

yeah, that's awful, I haven't kept up, I really hope it's all done
with now.

pay me no mind!...

I am totally distracted by females
two in particular

they are laid across the bed, I just filled the stove full of wood

I'm going to make some hot cocoa

sheelagh
March 31st 07, 06:17 PM
On 31 Mar, 18:04, "Barry" > wrote:
> On Mar 31, 9:11 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > Also, what is your problem?
> > S.
>
> Just checking... lol
>
> :D
>
> yeah, that's awful, I haven't kept up, I really hope it's all done
> with now.
>
> pay me no mind!...
>
> I am totally distracted by females
> two in particular
>
> they are laid across the bed, I just filled the stove full of wood
>
> I'm going to make some hot cocoa

Good.
Make sure that you eat the milk just right & add some sugar as well as
a few sprinkles of chocolate on the top of it.
Yummy.

I'm certain that Ringo will get over this one. Sadly, He has lost the
sight in his left eye, & he is splinted on his leg, but that comes off
fairly soon, & hopefully his leg should be fine. I am just pleased
that they didn't have to remove the eye, because he is too handsome to
loose it.
You know how charming he is;o)

All we need now is the cretin who did this to him, to be caught.
Personally, I would string them up and inflict the same on them as was
done to him, but unfortunately the laws here don't allow you to..so
the best that we can hope for is the morons to be fined for it & our
expenses to be paid.
Even that would be a huge relief.
Good to see you around again.
S;o)

Barry
March 31st 07, 06:21 PM
On Mar 31, 12:17 pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
...so
> the best that we can hope for is the morons to be fined for it & our
> expenses to be paid.
> Even that would be a huge relief.
> Good to see you around again.
> S;o)

my request for hot cocoa hasn't even been submitted to acquisitions
yet

Damn, that bites!

Charlie is a real whiz at forensics, I bet if you gave enough details,
about the neighbors.. any suspects, we might be able to get your
shooter.

Barry
March 31st 07, 06:30 PM
On Mar 31, 12:17 pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:

> Even that would be a huge relief.
> Good to see you around again.
> S;o)

Around here, somebody always sees something...
have you talked with your neighbors, and folk who
might see Ringo while he is out?

yeah, I would make them pay the bill

It's some jackass who didn't want your cat walking through his
precious garden.

Happy that Ringo is on the rebound.

sheelagh
March 31st 07, 08:05 PM
On 31 Mar, 18:30, "Barry" > wrote:
> On Mar 31, 12:17 pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > Even that would be a huge relief.
> > Good to see you around again.
> > S;o)
>
> Around here, somebody always sees something...
> have you talked with your neighbors, and folk who
> might see Ringo while he is out?
>
> yeah, I would make them pay the bill
>
> It's some jackass who didn't want your cat walking through his
> precious garden.
>
> Happy that Ringo is on the rebound.

The night that this happened to him, there were 5 cats shot in total,
one of them was fatally injured, & the rest were just were just
peppered with pellets to various degree's. The worst had a punctured
lung and is still @ the surgery since being shot. Things don't look so
good for him.
>
> Around here, somebody always sees something...
> have you talked with your neighbors, and folk who
> might see Ringo while he is out?

Yes, we have been through the Who hates Ring file & questioned the
neighbors to see if they saw anything too. In fact the only people
that have come forward were a couple who's house backs on to the
meadow. They heard the pinging of the pellets, but thought it was kids
shooting at tin cans, so never bothered to look into it any further...
I am a great believer in Kama, & I truely believe that what comes
around, goes around too. I sure hope that it does!!
S;o)

Charlie Wilkes
April 1st 07, 02:01 AM
On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 10:21:06 -0700, Barry wrote:

> On Mar 31, 12:17 pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> ..so
>> the best that we can hope for is the morons to be fined for it & our
>> expenses to be paid.
>> Even that would be a huge relief.
>> Good to see you around again.
>> S;o)
>
> my request for hot cocoa hasn't even been submitted to acquisitions yet
>
> Damn, that bites!
>
> Charlie is a real whiz at forensics, I bet if you gave enough details,
> about the neighbors.. any suspects, we might be able to get your
> shooter.

HORK! What have I done to earn that particular accolade?

If I knew whodunit, I would whisk them to a police station so they would
be in protective custody when Sheelagh and Bookie found out.

Charlie

sheelagh
April 1st 07, 02:11 AM
On 1 Apr, 02:01, Charlie Wilkes >
wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 10:21:06 -0700, Barry wrote:
> > On Mar 31, 12:17 pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> > ..so
> >> the best that we can hope for is the morons to be fined for it & our
> >> expenses to be paid.
> >> Even that would be a huge relief.
> >> Good to see you around again.
> >> S;o)
>
> > my request for hot cocoa hasn't even been submitted to acquisitions yet
>
> > Damn, that bites!
>
> > Charlie is a real whiz at forensics, I bet if you gave enough details,
> > about the neighbors.. any suspects, we might be able to get your
> > shooter.
>
> HORK! What have I done to earn that particular accolade?
>
> If I knew whodunit, I would whisk them to a police station so they would
> be in protective custody when Sheelagh and Bookie found out.
>
> Charlie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

ROFLOL, are we that bad...?
( I take it you don't see us as English Roses then..all be it in late
bloom!!)

On reflection, you could have a good point there.

I can't say that I would too interested in there sob stories or
excuses. They hurt my cat & I "would" be very angry with them.
Wouldn't you feel the same way if it was your cat?
S;o)

sheelagh
April 1st 07, 02:24 AM
On 1 Apr, 02:11, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 1 Apr, 02:01, Charlie Wilkes >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 10:21:06 -0700, Barry wrote:
> > > On Mar 31, 12:17 pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> > > ..so
> > >> the best that we can hope for is the morons to be fined for it & our
> > >> expenses to be paid.
> > >> Even that would be a huge relief.
> > >> Good to see you around again.
> > >> S;o)
>
> > > my request for hot cocoa hasn't even been submitted to acquisitions yet
>
> > > Damn, that bites!
>
> > > Charlie is a real whiz at forensics, I bet if you gave enough details,
> > > about the neighbors.. any suspects, we might be able to get your
> > > shooter.
>
> > HORK! What have I done to earn that particular accolade?
>
> > If I knew whodunit, I would whisk them to a police station so they would
> > be in protective custody when Sheelagh and Bookie found out.
>
> > Charlie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> ROFLOL, are we that bad...?
> ( I take it you don't see us as English Roses then..all be it in late
> bloom!!)
>
> On reflection, you could have a good point there.
>
> I can't say that I would too interested in there sob stories or
> excuses. They hurt my cat & I "would" be very angry with them.
> Wouldn't you feel the same way if it was your cat?
> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Two correction's, & my mistake there.
Their sob stories & Mr Tweakers.
Sorry Charlie..
S;o)

Charlie Wilkes
April 1st 07, 04:40 AM
On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:11:52 -0700, sheelagh wrote:
>
> ROFLOL, are we that bad...?
> ( I take it you don't see us as English Roses then..all be it in late
> bloom!!)

I like both of you. You are intellectually honest for the most part, and
your comments are always fun to read.
>
> On reflection, you could have a good point there.
>
> I can't say that I would too interested in there sob stories or excuses.
> They hurt my cat & I "would" be very angry with them. Wouldn't you feel
> the same way if it was your cat? S;o)

Yes. I completely understand your anger. Shooting Ringo was a cruel and
gratuitous act that resulted in a great deal of suffering for the animal
as well as grief and expense for your family. There is no excuse, and
the only mitigating factor is that he is recovering well from what could
have been a fatal attack. However, I tend to think this was probably the
work of teenaged boys run amok with obnoxious impulses they don't
understand well enough to control. They may yet be reformed, or even
reform themselves as they mature. The right kind of punishment for such
individuals would be restitution of your expenses and community service
at a veterinary hospital.

Charlie

IBen Getiner
April 1st 07, 05:50 AM
On Mar 31, 9:50 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 31 Mar, 04:18, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > On Mar 23, 11:21 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > Words fail me....
>
> > Common sense apparently fails you, too.. If you used any, you wouldn't
> > be in this mess. But that presupposes that you have a working brain...
>
> I don't live in the USA, & it is normal to allow your cat to roam in
> the UK.
>

Is it legal? Because it isn't here. Not where I live. You see, we'd
finally had enough from irresponsible assholes like you. Your kind...
who stands back and let their pets rule the roost, with absolutely no
thought whatsoever for anyone else... That **** was going to stop. One
way or the other. YOU just got handed 'the other'... That's all..

>
>
>
>
> > > Last night I went outside to call Ringo in & when there was no
> > > response, I knew in my gut that there was something Very Wrong Because
> > > Ringo is always here for dinner time....
>
> > > I searched the front of the house, then out the back, but there was no
> > > Ringo.
> > > I decided to leave it half an hour but when the time was up, we set
> > > out on a search party to see where he was hanging out & why he had not
> > > simply come home when we called him. By this time I was in near
> > > frantic panic, because it is soooo out of character....
>
> > > Our neighbors kids joined in the search,& by 7.15pm we had over 8
> > > people looking for him - he is ever such a popular puss because he is
> > > so friendly & will allow anyone to give him tunny tickles..
> > > We continued to search, & kept in contact by mobile (cell phone!)
>
> > > At around 8.10pm, my son Ross found him. He was lying on his side in
> > > the meadow under a hedge panting. Ross called me right away & when I
> > > reached him, I could see that Ringo was panting & he had blood all
> > > over his fur just under his left eye & just under his right fore leg.
> > > I didn't have to guess too long to see what had happened to him...
> > > He had been shot, but I wasn't sure what with.
>
> > > Paul joined me, & we lifted him up onto a board & covered him with a
> > > blanket. I called the vet from the meadow & asked if he would see
> > > Ringo, & he told us to handle whim with care & bring him straight down
> > > there.
> > > It was obvious that Ringo was in shock & shivering too. I had no idea
> > > how long he had lain there, but the last time I could remember seeing
> > > him, was around 5.30pm, so we don't know what time this had happened.
> > > You wouldn't believe how fast my trusty old Ford escort shot down the
> > > motorway, I would never have believed it could go that fast,
> > > seriously!!
>
> > > On arrival, we were met, & he was seen straight away. I went into the
> > > consultation room with him, & the vet had a quick look & told me that
> > > he had to get an xray done as fast as possible, & then onto theater if
> > > necessary to get the pellets out, because he was concerned that the
> > > pellet might have penetrated some of his organs & the fear of him
> > > dying of shock was quite possible, so they wanted to get him seen to
> > > as fast as possible, so we left them to get on with it.
>
> > > It is such a terrible feeling You feel so helpless;o(
> > TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ROAMING PET. Then you would't be stuck
> > feeling oh, so helpless! Your cat was probably killing some one's
> > ducks or chickens. Or spraying all over their front porch. You're the
> > one who let him roam. Why do you now attempt to deny a homeowner his
> > right to drive the little rounder away? Don't THEY have any rights? I
> > mean, after all, "Ringo" was where he shouldn't be. That's why he got
> > waxed, most likely. You're lucky they didn't lay out poison or a trap
> > of some kind. Or worse yet, use a real gun.
> > You take no responsibility for your pets, you deserve what they get.
> > They don't, but you do. But at least you feel some pain. Which is
> > good. If I were your cat, I'd be fairly happy about it...
>
> I do take responsibility for him.
>

Then you probably belong in jail. Not the poor souls who were simply
running off a cad. How else are they to enjoy THEIR rights? By coming
and complaining to you...?? LOL.....!! I'll bet you wouldn't take a
lick of responsibility then.. And don't you think they know this. A
report to the police or to you would simply provide the authorities a
calling-card to suspect them, when they eventually got tired of
waiting for you to 'take responsibility'. ****... you don't even
understand the concept of the word. Why then do you attempt to abuse
it?

> If you bothered to read the whole
> thread, you would have seen that I held my hands up to being at fault
> for allowing him out go out.
>

Good! Then what are you bitching about? It's pay-back time. And YOU'RE
not smiling.

> He was a stray when we took him in last Xmas, so it is in his nature
> to go where he wants to.
>

"He has strayed"... Like it was he who is to blame. You should have
Ringo removed from your care. You apparently already knew that their
were those there who did not take kindly to rag-tag usurpers going
HitherandYon... Doing God only knows what on THEIR private property.
When they just off and 'strayed'....! With your blessings of course.

> Ringo was in the middle of a field when we found him shot, & there are
> laws that protect cats from being shot over here.
>

Then the laws are unjust. Were these laws voted upon? I sincerely
doubt it. They were probably ram-rodded thru by a fearful governing
body (i.e.: a tyrant judge) in order to pacify the left-wing
extremists that you have working over there.
The point is, no matter WHAT kind of phony-azz LAW you trump up, there
will always be those who's rights these new laws trample under foot.
Don't think it badly of them for looking out for themselves. You take
responsibility for their actions with your carelessness, too.

> I fail to see how that was annoying anyone in the middle of a field!!
>

How do you know that was where he was initially shot?


> (fallow land that hasn't been used for anything except for children &
> people walking their animals for years!!)
> I did take the responsibility as well as the bill from the vet too.
>

Well, of course! Who else did you think was going to pay for it...?
Your crumby socialized medicine system over there? I wonder now if
you would have been so generous if the real victims of this crime came
to you and presented you with THEIR vet bills... The people who felt
it their sovereign duty to rid the community of a unwanted pest. One
who's reputation is surely known far and wide.

> Had I not taken him in, the chances are that he would have died there
> instead.
>
> > > The vet already had assisting staff to help him because they have a 24
> > > hour facility, so they were able to proceed immediately...
> > > We were told to go home and that they would call us as soon as they
> > > had any news for us. Just over an hour and a half later, we got a call
> > > to say that Ringo had got through the surgery. They managed to get the
> > > pellet out of his foreleg & it was logged into his bone, & also that
> > > he had got the pellet out of his jaw, but he wasn't sure if Ringo lost
> > > his sight in his out of his left eye, because it was logged so near to
> > > the optic nerve that he did consider leaving it in case he caused more
> > > damage than was already done. He also told us that the one in his leg
> > > was shot at almost blank rang too
>
> > Boo-****ing-HOO. Why are you such an irresponsible pet owner? I bet
> > your kids are holy terrors, too. And I'll bet I'm right, too..
>
> WRONG!!
>

The mother never sees it coming. Then the next thing she knows, her
kid is on the telly after being arrested for being a murderous
homosexual cannibal...
You are living an illusion. Your kids must be undergoing some kind of
psychiatric treatment... If not, then you're surely in for a few big
surprises down the road. And what they get from you is NOT from the
hereditary side of the illness tree. IOW, it's probably untreatable.

>
>
>
>
> > > As you can imagine, we shot down there to see him, but he was very
> > > sedated, & didn't manage much more than a hand lick & an ear tickle.
> > > I Can't describe the RAGE that we feel, knowing that someone who lives
> > > near us had thought it funny to shoot him ,quite possibly knowing that
> > > it was our cat too..
> > > Whilst waiting for Ringo to come out of surgery, we called the police
> > > to alert them to the fact that we have a loose canon in the
> > > neighborhood, & we also called the RSPCA to alert them too, only to
> > > find out that Ringo was only one of four cats who had been shot
> > > yesterday on our nearest estate.
>
> > You mean you didn't involve the FBI....? Why not give them a call? Or
> > how about the Secret Service? I mean, where is it written that a
> > roaming, lawless, pilfering cat should have any less right to justice
> > than an American president...? Get busy. Pick up that phone today. And
> > then proceed to get carted away to the loony bin. Where you belong...
>
> I would involve the pope if it meant finding out who did this to him
> asshole!!
>

The pope would just molest your kids while you were out there creeping
around someone else's property hunting up gimpy, roaming old Ringo.


> Speaking of idiots, why don't you sign yourself in the loony bin
> there?
>

Why do you think I'm here...? I'm the comer. You're the goer.

> > Anyway, you're just waiting your time.. BBs cannot be traced. Too bad.
> > Too, too bad indeed..
>
> Wrong again, wise guy
>

Do you have any idea how the mechanics of firearm ballistics work? A
gun barrel must have a 'twist.... otherwise known as rifling.. to be
able to mark the bullet during firing. If a gun has no rifling (like a
shotgun or a BB gun), no traceable ballistics testing can be
performed! If the cops told you they could do it, it was just to get
rid of your pesky azz. They got better things to do that to stand
there and wet-nurse an obvious mental defective.


>
>
>
>
> > > I feel sick to the pit of my stomach knowing that someone could
> > > possibly do that to a poor defenseless cat, who has done them no harm
> > > at all. How could anyone shoot a cat at blank range? It wouldn't
> > > surprise me if it turns out to be a child who's parents have bought it
> > > for them as a gift.....
>
> > > THEY SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL...!!!!!
>
> > Why would you wanna up and do that? A gun is merely a tool. And just
> > like any other tool, it can be misused if the wrong person gets ahold
> > of it. But that's HIS wrong. Not the gun! Would you have cars made
> > illegal because some kill cats?
> > And in this case, it looks like this particular tool was put to good
> > use. Irresponsible cat owners are the ones who should be held
> > liable... Then poor BB gun owners out there wouldn't have to take
> > the rap for your sins.
>
> In the hands of a child, it is a lethal weapon.
>

Bull****! Only a child with a parent LIKE YOU would need to be feared.
A good father goes out shooting WITH his sons. Teaches them to respect
other life-forms (IOW, not to kill something that they aren't going to
eat). He also teaches them gun safety. But all this talk about a
responsible parent is flying right over your head, I'm sure. You can't
even keep track of poor half-dead old gato...


> This has been noted time and time again in our country freak ..& if
> you cared one iota about cats, you would agree with me too.
>

Only since the advent of women into politics have we seen such a rush
to crucify all things masculine. Constantly. It's always the same
everywhere you look.. Vilify, crucify and destroy. Panic-button
shrews. Just like the kind we got over here. Well, I'll tell ya... the
****ing arabs.....? They don't have these misperceptions of reality
with their women like we do. And all because we're good guys......

> The reason you are picking holes in me is because you are a male
> chauvinist pig & I have told you so. You see this as a chance to file
> pay-back, no other reason what so ever.....
>

Do you understand the difference between the effects of testosterone
and estrogen, dear...? I think you must. Especially the estrogen part,
since it doesn't look like you've had any for quite a little while
now.



> > > Sorry, but I feel so ANGRY
>
> > Good! It doesn't appear that you've learned anything, so I have a
> > little piece of advice for you.... GET USED TO IT.
>
> NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>

Oh, really...? Then tell me something.. What does "taking full
responsibility" actually mean to your warped little mind?



> > > Ringo is still in special care room, but doing much better today. He
> > > remains sedated & is responding well. He still has his hydration drip
> > > in his other fore leg, but he did try to lap some water earlier today.
> > > He looks like a mini mummy with all of the bandages round his head and
> > > his leg where they splinted him & strapped him under his fore leg..
>
> > Why did you let poor Ringo down like that? He's just a cat. He doesn't
> > know he's not welcome killing the neighbor's goldfish. He depends on
> > YOU for that part.
>
> I let him into the back garden, because he doesn't normally roam at
> all.
>

The back garden... Is that on your own personal property? Or did he in-
fact stray BEYOND the 'back garden'...?


> I had no reason to believe he would roam that day, but he did, & I
> TAKE FULL REPOSNSIBILITY FOR THAT ALONE.
>

So I ask again... What are you BITCHING about? He got what you had
coming to you. I don't understand why you're so frigging upset about
it now. It's time to PAY...

> > > My kids are keeping their ears open to see if they can find out who
> > > has a new BB pellet gun recently, Or who was in the meadow last night
> > > around the same time last night. No doubt even if we do find out how
> > > it was, the worst that will happen is that they *MIGHT* get a rap on
> > > the knuckles & a public caution. In fact the best thing we could hope
> > > for, is for the police to remove the gun to stop it happening
> > > again..If we are lucky, that is
>
> > Just because a person has a BB gun... that doesn't mean a bloomin'
> > thing. BB guns are purrrrrfectly legal, you know. Well, at least until
> > you have them all melted down into Hilary Clinton campaign buttons.
>
> I don't live in the states idiot.......
> They might be in the USA, but in our country, it is a crime to allow a
> child to wield one, & it also a crime for a person to use one to harm
> an animal.
>

Like I said, you can't tell me that you actually expect people WHO
DIDN'T EVEN VOTE on the law, to honor it when it places such blatant
disregard on THEIR rights.
Gotta watch for those types. The other guy who you screw over with
your lack of responsibility, I mean. I'd say that you were pretty
lucky in this case. Because where I live, they get POISONED. And if a
stray gets a load of that, then you don't even find your precious
'Ringo'. The coons and the vultures and the worms do. All you get are
some bleeched bones and a rotten shard of a collar. If you're really
lucky.

But you're taking all the responsibility now.. thank God for that.



> If you want to shoot animals over here, you require a gun license, a
> police check into your previous character, & be able to store your gun
> in a secure place away from anyone other than yourself. If anyone does
> get a hold of your gun, then you deserve the the consequences....
>

That's because your people didn't demand a Bill of Rights when they
were forming up over there. We saw where YOU assholes went wrong, and
then we fixed it! So the Government just can't take away our personal
defense like that. Don't blame me because you come from a nation of
sheep. And pretty eccentric ones, too.


> > > Whats to stop them going straight out to buy another one tomorrow..?
>
> > If you keep control of your pet, you won't need to worry about that!
>
> Yes I would. Shooting cats is don't confined to public land, in fact
> most cats that are shot are fired at from private property, & I will
> not be made to stop my cats walking around my garden. It is my land, I
> will allow my cats the pleasure of walking in the sun if they wish
> to.
>

Where they actually SHOT on your land?

> What I won't do, is ever allow them off my land again.
>

Well GOOD!! Then we shan't be having this nasty little conversation
again, either.. But do feel welcome if you ever pitch the cat out the
back door again, expecting no one to take action just because your
laws are screwed up. That's the problem with people like you. You
expect the Government to take care of you. Socialist assholes. Bet you
were a child of the sixties, too. You say you take full
responsibility, what ever that means. But you're still peeved. I don't
get it.

> > > I hope that I don't find out who did it, because right now, I am too
> > > angry to deal with it
>
> > Then my advice is to stay away from mirrors...
>
> Funny aren't you....
>


No. It's just that I can dig on MY reflection. Can you...? Remember...
It's you in reverse, now....


> > > The boys used to wonder why I wouldn't allow them to have a BB gun, &
> > > yesterday the learnt exactly why..not one of them wants one now. I
> > > think that they are as outraged as we are
>
> > Typical over-emotional female. Can't even begin to understand the
> > concept of defense. Can't see it because YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO!
> > You're a frigging WOMAN. Men are the defenders of the family. It is in
> > our genes to do this exactly as much as it's in your genes to be the
> > gatherer of goods and the cradle of life. But in your typical
> > deficient female fashion, you would punish the 98 percent of law-
> > abiding boys... take away THEIR right to learn one of the first
> > lessons of manhood.... just to punish the irresponsible 2 percent!
> > This is why women should have no place in politics, in any way, shape
> > or form. Bet your kids are REAL piece of work. Messed up is the word.
> > Bet their still trying to figure out why they're being lumped in with
> > the bad 2 percent all the time when they're probably not... Great
> > lesson there, Mom... Too bad you took it upon your ill-equipped azz to
> > teach it. Where is Mister Sheelagh? Cowering in the corner, no
> > doubt..
>
> If you men my partner, then say so.
>

Sorry... I'm not versed in all forms of eubonics. Come again?

> You have stated your case for all to see, & I am sure that they will
> all draw their own conclusions. There is no need for me to wise mouth
> you, because there is no need. All you have done throughout this post
> is make yourself look stupid......> > Sheelagh
> > > [i.e.: FOOL]
>
> >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>

Oh, No, my dear.... You got it all ****ing backwards as usual.

> Wise Guy and chauvinist pig> - Show quoted text -

Stupid woman who's still waiting for that all-important testicle to
descend....


IBen Getiner

Barry
April 1st 07, 06:54 AM
On Mar 31, 8:01 pm, Charlie Wilkes >
wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 10:21:06 -0700, Barry wrote:
> > On Mar 31, 12:17 pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> > ..so
> >> the best that we can hope for is the morons to be fined for it & our
> >> expenses to be paid.
> >> Even that would be a huge relief.
> >> Good to see you around again.
> >> S;o)
>
> > my request for hot cocoa hasn't even been submitted to acquisitions yet
>
> > Damn, that bites!
>
> > Charlie is a real whiz at forensics, I bet if you gave enough details,
> > about the neighbors.. any suspects, we might be able to get your
> > shooter.
>
> HORK! What have I done to earn that particular accolade?

You have a good womens intuition, lol
you bring a good emotive balance... you also have a good prowess on
people behaviors; almost always your answer is surprising.. it's
"things barry's grandmother might say".

like.. "damn kids, they'll put their eyes out with them damn bb
rifles"

> If I knew whodunit, I would whisk them to a police station so they would
> be in protective custody when Sheelagh and Bookie found out.

you talking about the original "masters of disaster"? bookie would
have a bailiff shoot their pp's with a bb gun - from across the court-
room, he gets 3 tries to ping it.

yes, they would make a fine educating pair.


> Charlie

Barry
April 1st 07, 08:27 AM
On Apr 1, 12:50 am, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:

> Do you have any idea how the mechanics of firearm ballistics work? A
> gun barrel must have a 'twist.... otherwise known as rifling.. to be
> able to mark the bullet during firing. If a gun has no rifling (like a
> shotgun or a BB gun), no traceable ballistics testing can be
> performed! If the cops told you they ...
>
> read more

what, you want some ninny now?

look at him, standing there with milk dripping from his chin

IBen Getiner
April 1st 07, 09:36 AM
On Apr 1, 2:30?am, Nomen Nescio > wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> From: Charlie Wilkes >
>
> >However, I tend to think this was probably the
> >work of teenaged boys run amok with obnoxious impulses they don't
> >understand well enough to control.
>


The ****ing cat is a rounder... A loose tom. He probably terrorizes
the local birds in someone bird-lover's back yard.
I think that she just got sent a powerful message. Let's hope for poor
ol' Ringo's sake that she takes it...


IBen

IBen Getiner
April 1st 07, 09:41 AM
On Mar 31, 11:40�pm, Charlie Wilkes
> wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:11:52 -0700, sheelagh wrote:
>
> > ROFLOL, are we that bad...?
> > ( I take it you don't see us as English Roses then..all be it in late
> > bloom!!)
>
> I like both of you. *You are intellectually honest for the most part, and
> your comments are always fun to read.
>
>
>
> > On reflection, you could have a good point there.
>
> > I can't say that I would too interested in there sob stories or excuses.
> > They hurt my cat & I "would" be very angry with them. Wouldn't you feel
> > the same way if it was your cat? S;o)
>
> Yes. *I completely understand your anger. *Shooting Ringo was a cruel and
> gratuitous act that resulted in a great deal of suffering for the animal
> as well as grief and expense for your family. *There is no excuse, and
> the only mitigating factor is that he is recovering well from what could
> have been a fatal attack. *However, I tend to think this was probably the
> work of teenaged boys run amok with obnoxious impulses they don't
> understand well enough to control. *They may yet be reformed, or even
> reform themselves as they mature. *The right kind of punishment for such
> individuals would be restitution of your expenses and community service
> at a veterinary hospital.
>
> Charlie
The ****ing cat is a rounder... A loose tom. He probably terrorizes
the local birds in some bird-lover's back yard.
I think that she just got sent a powerful message. Let's hope for
poor
ol' Ringo's sake that she takes it...

IBen

IBen Getiner
April 1st 07, 10:26 AM
On Mar 23, 12:32�pm, "Matthew" > wrote:
> I am so sorry Sheelagh. *The feeling I call it like a person be raped the
> feeling of helplessness, the feeling of deception, *the feeling of
> violation.

You're actually comparing someone's rape experience to that of a pet
getting popped a few times with a BB gun?? You're ****ing sick, dude.
You're ALL sick in the ****ing head. To actually place a here-today,
gone-tomorrow animal right up there with a ****ing person... Wow. You
must not think too highly of yourselves. That's what I think the
matter is with each and every sympathetic poster that I've read here
today. There must be a psychiatric definition that covers people like
you (terminal poor self-esteem, perhaps?). 20 years ago, they would
have locked you all away. But today, the loons run the asylum. There's
more of you than there is normal folks. Consequently, things like
obsessive flirtations into the cult of 'animal rights activism', or
the sub-human evils of things like homosexuality and gay 'marriage'
reflect your own brand of personal madness. And right behind that, we
have the media who looks upon you as normal.
But you're not. A woman being RAPED has nothing to compare it to. And
I'll bet that there are women right in here that can back me up. But
they won't because they're ashamed.
What you said only goes to prove that you've never had to live thru
that kind of experience. But what the hell good would it do if you
had? You'd probably just like it.
YOU are a nut-job. An obsessive compulsive kook. Get help. But try to
find a shrink who votes republican. If there is such an animal. If you
indeed do find one, I'm SURE that he will become here-today, gone-
tomorrow real quick.


IBen Getiner

IBen Getiner
April 1st 07, 10:29 AM
On Mar 23, 12:32�pm, "Matthew" > wrote:
> I am so sorry Sheelagh. *The feeling I call it like a person be raped the
> feeling of helplessness, the feeling of deception, *the feeling of
> violation.
>
> I know I would be using a large burlap bag, a phonebook and a lead pipe *no
> evidence no trace no bruises *that person would be praying to what ever god
> they believed in by the time I was done. *Let them feel what you felt that
> would be one heck of a lesson
>
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
> > Words fail me....
> > Last night I went outside to call Ringo in & when there was no
> > response, I knew in my gut that there was something Very Wrong Because
> > Ringo is always here for dinner time....
>
> > I searched the front of the house, then out the back, but there was no
> > Ringo.
> > I decided to leave it half an hour but when the time was up, we set
> > out on a search party to see where he was hanging out & why he had not
> > simply come home when we called him. By this time I was in near
> > frantic panic, because it is soooo out of character....
>
> > Our neighbors kids joined in the search,& by 7.15pm we had over 8
> > people looking for him - he is ever such a popular puss because he is
> > so friendly & will allow anyone to give him tunny tickles..
> > We continued to search, & kept in contact by mobile (cell phone!)
>
> > At around 8.10pm, my son Ross found him. He was lying on his side in
> > the meadow under a hedge panting. Ross called me right away & when I
> > reached him, I could see that Ringo was panting & he had blood all
> > over his fur just under his left eye & just under his right fore leg.
> > I didn't have to guess too long to see what had happened to him...
> > He had been shot, but I wasn't sure what with.
>
> > Paul joined me, & we lifted him up onto a board & covered him with a
> > blanket. I called the vet from the meadow & asked if he would see
> > Ringo, & he told us to handle whim with care & bring him straight down
> > there.
> > It was obvious that Ringo was in shock & shivering too. I had no idea
> > how long he had lain there, but the last time I could remember seeing
> > him, was around 5.30pm, so we don't know what time this had happened.
> > You wouldn't believe how fast my trusty old Ford escort shot down the
> > motorway, I would never have believed it could go that fast,
> > seriously!!
>
> > On arrival, we were met, & he was seen straight away. I went into the
> > consultation room with him, & the vet had a quick look & told me that
> > he had to get an xray done as fast as possible, & then onto theater if
> > nessacery to get the pellets out, because he was conerned that the
> > pellet might have penetrated some of his organs & the fear of him
> > dying of shock was quite possible, so they wanted to get him seen to
> > as fast as possible, so we left them to get on with it.
>
> > It is such a terrible feeling You feel so helpless;o(
>
> > The vet already had assisting staff to help him because they have a 24
> > hour facility, so they were able to proceed immediately...
> > We were told to go home and that they would call us as soon as they
> > had any news for us. Just over an hour and a half later, we got a call
> > to say that Ringo had got through the surgery. They managed to get the
> > pellet out of his foreleg & it was logged into his bone, & also that
> > he had got the pellet out of his jaw, but he wasn't sure if Ringo lost
> > his sight in his out of his left eye, because it was logged so near to
> > the optic nerve that he did consider leaving it in case he caused more
> > damage than was already done. He also told us that the one in his leg
> > was shot at almost blank rang too
>
> > As you can imagine, we shot down there to see him, but he was very
> > sedated, & didn't manage much more than a hand lick & an ear tickle.
> > I Can't describe the RAGE that we feel, knowing that someone who lives
> > near us had thought it funny to shoot him ,quite possibly knowing that
> > it was our cat too..
> > Whilst waiting for Ringo to come out of surgery, we called the police
> > to alert them to the fact that we have a loose canon in the
> > neighborhood, & we also called the RSPCA to alert them too, only to
> > find out that Ringo was only one of four cats who had been shot
> > yesterday *on our nearest estate.
> > I feel sick to the pit of my stomach knowing that someone could
> > possibly do that to a poor defenseless cat, who has done them no harm
> > at all. How could anyone shoot a cat at blank range? It wouldn't
> > surprise me if it turns out to be a child who's parents have bought it
> > for them as a gift.....
>
> > THEY SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL...!!!!!
> > Sorry, but I feel so ANGRY
>
> > Ringo is still in special care room, but doing much better today. He
> > remains sedated & is responding well. He still has his hydration drip
> > in his other fore leg, but he did try to lap some water earlier today.
> > He looks like a mini mummy with all of the bandages round his head and
> > his leg where they splinted him & strapped him under his fore leg..
>
> > My kids are keeping their ears open to see if they can find out who
> > has a new BB pellet gun recently, Or who was in the meadow last night
> > around the same time last night. No doubt even if we do find out how
> > it was, the worst that will happen is that they *MIGHT* get a rap on
> > the knuckles & a public caution. In fact the best thing we could hope
> > for, is for the police to remeove the gun to stop it happening
> > again..If we are lucky, that is
> > Whats to stop them going straight out to buy another one tomorrow..?
> > I hope that I don't find out who did it, because right now, I am too
> > angry to deal with it
> > The boys used to wonder why I wouldn't allow them to have a BB gun, &
> > yesterday the learnt exactly why..not one of them wants one now. I
> > think that they are as outraged as we are
>
> > Sheelagh- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You're actually comparing someone's rape experience to that of a pet
getting popped a few times with a BB gun?? You're ****ing sick, dude.
You're ALL sick in the ****ing head. To actually place a here-today,
gone-tomorrow animal right up there with a ****ing person... Wow. You
must not think too highly of yourselves. That's what I think the
matter is with each and every sympathetic poster that I've read here
today. There must be a psychiatric definition that covers people like
you (terminal poor self-esteem, perhaps?). 20 years ago, they would
have locked you all away. But today, the loons run the asylum. There's
more of you than there is normal folks. Consequently, things like
obsessive flirtations into the cult of 'animal rights activism', or
the sub-human evils of things like homosexuality and gay 'marriage'
reflect your own brand of personal madness. And right behind that, we
have the media who looks upon you as normal.
But you're not. A woman being RAPED has nothing to compare it to. And
I'll bet that there are women right in here that can back me up. But
they won't because they're ashamed.
What you said only goes to prove that you've never had to live thru
that kind of experience. But what the hell good would it do if you
had? You'd probably just like it.
YOU are a nut-job. An obsessive compulsive kook. Get help. But try to
find a shrink who votes republican. If there is such an animal. If you
indeed do find one, I'm SURE that he will become the here-today, gone-
tomorrow kind real quick.


IBen Getiner

cindys
April 1st 07, 02:05 PM
"IBen Getiner" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>YOU are a nut-job. An obsessive compulsive kook.
--------
No, you are a nut job, and an obsessive compulsive kook, and a racist idiot
who is posting to a newsgroup where he's not wanted. It's people like you
who make the world an ugly place. People who feel no sympathy for animals
generally feel even less sympathy for human beings. The feline newsgroup is
a group for people who love cats and want to talk about cat health and
behavior in peace. If you find this offensive, then stick to reading and
posting to your usual hate-mongering newsgroups. It is because of people
like you that moderated newsgroups are created. You are a worthless,
heartless excuse for human being who is desperately in need of psychiatric
care. I suggest you get some.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Barry
April 1st 07, 02:07 PM
On Apr 1, 5:29 am, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:

> That's good looking out Matthew, if only people felt more like you do.
>
> IBen Getiner

Well that's a nice change of heart Iben

cindys
April 1st 07, 02:09 PM
Sheelagh, this guy makes a career out of being a Usenet hatemonger. You do
not need to explain yourself to him or respond to his hate and ugliness. He
obviously couldn't care less about Ringo or any other cat. He's just trying
to make you feel guilty. Please don't allow him to manipulate you. Please
killfile him.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

cindys
April 1st 07, 02:21 PM
"Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
...
snip>
> Yes. I completely understand your anger. Shooting Ringo was a cruel and
> gratuitous act that resulted in a great deal of suffering for the animal
> as well as grief and expense for your family. There is no excuse, and
> the only mitigating factor is that he is recovering well from what could
> have been a fatal attack. However, I tend to think this was probably the
> work of teenaged boys run amok with obnoxious impulses they don't
> understand well enough to control.

Please don't be offended Charlie, but I think you're being naive. It seems
that wife-abusers, child-beaters, mass murderers, almost invariably have a
history of hurting animals in their youth. I think there is something
desperately wrong with any person who (for no reason at all) could
deliberately shoot (at point-blank range) a defenseless creature who was
doing him no harm. I think these boys desperately need counseling. This is
not just teenaged boys running amok.

>They may yet be reformed, or even
> reform themselves as they mature. The right kind of punishment for such
> individuals would be restitution of your expenses and community service
> at a veterinary hospital.

Personally, I think the right kind of punishment would be to pepper these
boys with a few pellets, but that's obviously not going to happen, so
restitution and some sort of comunity service is going to be the best the
law can do (if the law is able to do anything at all, that is). Personally,
I would not want these boys doing community service at a veterinray hospital
where my animals were patients, however. I would be really afraid.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
>
> Charlie
>

Matthew
April 1st 07, 03:44 PM
Cindy don't even bother with him. He has been doing this for years. Just
kill file him move one.
He is an attention junkie and he gets it every time someone responds to him.

"cindys" > wrote in message
...
>
> "IBen Getiner" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >YOU are a nut-job. An obsessive compulsive kook.
> --------
> No, you are a nut job, and an obsessive compulsive kook, and a racist
> idiot who is posting to a newsgroup where he's not wanted. It's people
> like you who make the world an ugly place. People who feel no sympathy for
> animals generally feel even less sympathy for human beings. The feline
> newsgroup is a group for people who love cats and want to talk about cat
> health and behavior in peace. If you find this offensive, then stick to
> reading and posting to your usual hate-mongering newsgroups. It is because
> of people like you that moderated newsgroups are created. You are a
> worthless, heartless excuse for human being who is desperately in need of
> psychiatric care. I suggest you get some.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
>

Matthew
April 1st 07, 03:49 PM
"Barry" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Apr 1, 5:29 am, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
>> That's good looking out Matthew, if only people felt more like you do.
>>
>> IBen Getiner
>
> Well that's a nice change of heart Iben
>

Thankfully though I have him blocked I scares the hell out of me that he
agrees with me. Time to call my shrink

sheelagh
April 1st 07, 04:18 PM
On 1 Apr, 15:49, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "Barry" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > On Apr 1, 5:29 am, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> >> That's good looking out Matthew, if only people felt more like you do.
>
> >> IBen Getiner
>
> > Well that's a nice change of heart Iben
>
> Thankfully though I have him blocked I scares the hell out of me that he
> agrees with me. Time to call my shrink

LOL, Too True Matthew...
I refuse to give him what he is looking for either.

Once upon a few weeks ago, I would have felt insenced & outraged, but
more recently, I see him for what he is- just like my boys were when
they were 2year olds, screaming @ the top of their lungs, trying to
get their own way.

We used to have a speacial name for it too. It was called the DYING
FLY, simply because they looked like one...lying their on their backs
with all four legs scrambling & a constant buzzz coming from their
lungs till the end.
Meet you @ the shrinks...
S;o)

bookie
April 1st 07, 04:36 PM
On 1 Apr, 07:30, Nomen Nescio > wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> From: Charlie Wilkes >
>
> >However, I tend to think this was probably the
> >work of teenaged boys run amok with obnoxious impulses they don't
> >understand well enough to control.
>
> That's an awfully f**kin' sexist thing to say. Are you saying that teenaged girls
> are incapable of runing amok with obnoxious impulses. Women are the
> same as men. At least that's what "cybercat" and "-L." like to claim. :)

no,girls do not have the same high levels of testosteorone flowing
through their systems as teenage boys do and so do nto 'usually' have
anywhere near the same tyopes of violent tendencies that boys do.
Girls and boys are very different and i woudl be VERY surprised if it
was some girl gang who did this, they just would not (too busy hanging
aournd on street corners smoking cigarettes and trying to attract the
attention of local boys for a start)

> I'd lean towards f**king them up real bad with a baseball bat, telling them
> that they just fell down the stairs, and if they ever claim that anything else
> caused their injuries they will wind up in a shallow grave in the woods.
> Hey, it's worked wonders for "attitude adjustments" in the past and a good
> limp will serve as a reminder for the rest of their lives.
> Oh, and they've got a month to pay for the vet bills, also.

i agree with you there! except I would give them a week to pay up for
the vet's bill and if they go over that time then they have to pay
interest onthe amount owing, in fingers..

character reform is not always possible,. some people just cannot be
reformed, particualrly if their behaviour is as a result of some brain
structure or activity dysfunction (ever read the case of Phineas
Gage?). In these cases you really can do nothing to teach them that
waht they have done is wrong and not to do it again, they are
incapable of learning that to hurt other people is bad and wrong liek
the rest of us, and so locking them up and keepign the m away from
innocent and vulnerable peolpe and animals is the only way

sorry for the tree-huggers and liberals out there who think that all
souls can be saved but it is true!
>
> I do hope that someone finds out who the assholes were, but you can't do
> ballistics on a BB gun.
true, only a rifle will leave some sort of indentation or mark onthe
bullet (comes fromthe groove on the inside of the barrel, or the
'bore' as it is known. sorry to sound leik a know-it-all but my dad
does rifle shooting, small bore in fact, as well as pistol shooting so
have had it explained to m several times)

maybe the police asked you for the bullet to make you think they were
going to be able to do somethign and put your mind at rest.

I need a cup of tea now
bookie
>
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> Version: N/A
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Matthew
April 1st 07, 04:38 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On 1 Apr, 15:49, "Matthew" > wrote:
>> "Barry" > wrote in message
>>
>> ups.com...
>>
>> > On Apr 1, 5:29 am, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>>
>> >> That's good looking out Matthew, if only people felt more like you do.
>>
>> >> IBen Getiner
>>
>> > Well that's a nice change of heart Iben
>>
>> Thankfully though I have him blocked I scares the hell out of me that he
>> agrees with me. Time to call my shrink
>
> LOL, Too True Matthew...
> I refuse to give him what he is looking for either.
>
> Once upon a few weeks ago, I would have felt insenced & outraged, but
> more recently, I see him for what he is- just like my boys were when
> they were 2year olds, screaming @ the top of their lungs, trying to
> get their own way.
>
> We used to have a speacial name for it too. It was called the DYING
> FLY, simply because they looked like one...lying their on their backs
> with all four legs scrambling & a constant buzzz coming from their
> lungs till the end.
> Meet you @ the shrinks...
> S;o)
>

I bring the doughnuts Krispy Kreme of course you bring the coffee :-)

bookie
April 1st 07, 04:52 PM
>
> >They may yet be reformed, or even
> > reform themselves as they mature. The right kind of punishment for such
> > individuals would be restitution of your expenses and community service
> > at a veterinary hospital.
>
> Personally, I think the right kind of punishment would be to pepper these
> boys with a few pellets, but that's obviously not going to happen, so
> restitution and some sort of comunity service is going to be the best the
> law can do (if the law is able to do anything at all, that is). Personally,
> I would not want these boys doing community service at a veterinray hospital
> where my animals were patients, however. I would be really afraid.

personally i do not think such community work would have any effect on
these little ****s whatsoever, i think they are most probably beyond
any sort of counselling or help and just need a damn good beating. You
cannot reason with some kids who do nto have the mental ability to
understand that what they do is wrong and who cannot understand
suffering in others (look up Theory of Mind, any child development
text book will refer to it, look up Piaget too) as they are incapable
of grasping the concept that other living creatures feel pain or
suffering or hurt as they do and that other living creatures deserve
respect and care as they do themselves. These people do not 'attend'
to the pain they cause in others they just 'attend' to the feeling of
enjoyment they themselves feel when they inflict pain on these other
ceratrures, does that make sense? that is someone with 'psychotic'
tendencies works and thiniks, (look up psychotic somewhere, preferably
a psychology textbook).

Now a damn good beation WOULD work because the one thing these kids
woudl understand is that they temselves want to avoid feeling their
own pain and if NOT inflicting pain on innocent animals means that
they AVOID getting a painful beating, then they will refrain from
bhurting animals. This is a kind of CONDITIONING, called NEGATIVE
REINFORCEMENT heard of it? they learn to avoid doing the action which
woudl result in something unpleasant happening to them, fairly simple
really.

it would be lovely if they chose not to hurt animals out of a respect
for animals and life but with some of these kids that is never going
to be the case so you have to employ alternative methods of getting
what you want really

anyone who is confused as to what I mean by conditioning, think about
A Clockwork Orange and what the authorities did to Alex to sort him
out and rehabilitate him in the second half of the film

bookie

cindys
April 1st 07, 05:25 PM
"bookie" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> >
>> >They may yet be reformed, or even
>> > reform themselves as they mature. The right kind of punishment for
>> > such
>> > individuals would be restitution of your expenses and community service
>> > at a veterinary hospital.
>>
>> Personally, I think the right kind of punishment would be to pepper these
>> boys with a few pellets, but that's obviously not going to happen, so
>> restitution and some sort of comunity service is going to be the best the
>> law can do (if the law is able to do anything at all, that is).
>> Personally,
>> I would not want these boys doing community service at a veterinray
>> hospital
>> where my animals were patients, however. I would be really afraid.
>
> personally i do not think such community work would have any effect on
> these little ****s whatsoever, i think they are most probably beyond
> any sort of counselling or help and just need a damn good beating. You
> cannot reason with some kids who do nto have the mental ability to
> understand that what they do is wrong and who cannot understand
> suffering in others (look up Theory of Mind, any child development
> text book will refer to it, look up Piaget too) as they are incapable
> of grasping the concept that other living creatures feel pain or
> suffering or hurt as they do and that other living creatures deserve
> respect and care as they do themselves. These people do not 'attend'
> to the pain they cause in others they just 'attend' to the feeling of
> enjoyment they themselves feel when they inflict pain on these other
> ceratrures, does that make sense? that is someone with 'psychotic'
> tendencies works and thiniks, (look up psychotic somewhere, preferably
> a psychology textbook).

I agree. Or they take pleasure in inflicting the pain.
>
> Now a damn good beating WOULD work because the one thing these kids
> woudl understand is that they temselves want to avoid feeling their
> own pain and if NOT inflicting pain on innocent animals means that
> they AVOID getting a painful beating, then they will refrain from
> bhurting animals. This is a kind of CONDITIONING, called NEGATIVE
> REINFORCEMENT heard of it? they learn to avoid doing the action which
> woudl result in something unpleasant happening to them, fairly simple
> really.

I agree. It's unfortunate that the law won't handle it that way, and I doubt
the parents will either. When you have kids like that, you generally have
parents with the same sorts of attitudes. I can almost guarantee that the
parents will defend their sons: "Oh, it was only my son having a little fun.
It was only some cats, after all. Boys will be boys. You bleeding heart
whacko animal rights loonies are making a big deal out of nothing." Kind of
like the crap that comes out of Iben Gentner's mouth. (In fact, I wouldn't
be surprised to learn that dad is out there himself with the BB gun shooting
at the squirrels in his garden.) And once the judge tells dad how much money
he owes the families of the victims, I can guarantee you that dad will go
home and beat the cr*p out of the kids (and probably mom too) because now
he's going to have to cough up hundreds of pounds to pay for the cats'
medical bills. But, hey screw the cats.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.


>
> it would be lovely if they chose not to hurt animals out of a respect
> for animals and life but with some of these kids that is never going
> to be the case so you have to employ alternative methods of getting
> what you want really
>
> anyone who is confused as to what I mean by conditioning, think about
> A Clockwork Orange and what the authorities did to Alex to sort him
> out and rehabilitate him in the second half of the film
>
> bookie
>

sheelagh
April 1st 07, 05:26 PM
On 1 Apr, 16:38, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 1 Apr, 15:49, "Matthew" > wrote:
> >> "Barry" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> >> > On Apr 1, 5:29 am, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> >> >> That's good looking out Matthew, if only people felt more like you do.
>
> >> >> IBen Getiner
>
> >> > Well that's a nice change of heart Iben
>
> >> Thankfully though I have him blocked I scares the hell out of me that he
> >> agrees with me. Time to call my shrink
>
> > LOL, Too True Matthew...
> > I refuse to give him what he is looking for either.
>
> > Once upon a few weeks ago, I would have felt insenced & outraged, but
> > more recently, I see him for what he is- just like my boys were when
> > they were 2year olds, screaming @ the top of their lungs, trying to
> > get their own way.
>
> > We used to have a speacial name for it too. It was called the DYING
> > FLY, simply because they looked like one...lying their on their backs
> > with all four legs scrambling & a constant buzzz coming from their
> > lungs till the end.
> > Meet you @ the shrinks...
> > S;o)
>
> I bring the doughnuts Krispy Kreme of course you bring the coffee :-)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Goes without saying, of course!
S;o)

sheelagh
April 1st 07, 06:22 PM
On 1 Apr, 17:25, "cindys" > wrote:
> "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >> >They may yet be reformed, or even
> >> > reform themselves as they mature. The right kind of punishment for
> >> > such
> >> > individuals would be restitution of your expenses and community service
> >> > at a veterinary hospital.
>
> >> Personally, I think the right kind of punishment would be to pepper these
> >> boys with a few pellets, but that's obviously not going to happen, so
> >> restitution and some sort of comunity service is going to be the best the
> >> law can do (if the law is able to do anything at all, that is).
> >> Personally,
> >> I would not want these boys doing community service at a veterinray
> >> hospital
> >> where my animals were patients, however. I would be really afraid.
>
> > personally i do not think such community work would have any effect on
> > these little ****s whatsoever, i think they are most probably beyond
> > any sort of counselling or help and just need a damn good beating. You
> > cannot reason with some kids who do nto have the mental ability to
> > understand that what they do is wrong and who cannot understand
> > suffering in others (look up Theory of Mind, any child development
> > text book will refer to it, look up Piaget too) as they are incapable
> > of grasping the concept that other living creatures feel pain or
> > suffering or hurt as they do and that other living creatures deserve
> > respect and care as they do themselves. These people do not 'attend'
> > to the pain they cause in others they just 'attend' to the feeling of
> > enjoyment they themselves feel when they inflict pain on these other
> > ceratrures, does that make sense? that is someone with 'psychotic'
> > tendencies works and thiniks, (look up psychotic somewhere, preferably
> > a psychology textbook).
>
> I agree. Or they take pleasure in inflicting the pain.
>
>
>
> > Now a damn good beating WOULD work because the one thing these kids
> > woudl understand is that they temselves want to avoid feeling their
> > own pain and if NOT inflicting pain on innocent animals means that
> > they AVOID getting a painful beating, then they will refrain from
> > bhurting animals. This is a kind of CONDITIONING, called NEGATIVE
> > REINFORCEMENT heard of it? they learn to avoid doing the action which
> > woudl result in something unpleasant happening to them, fairly simple
> > really.
>
> I agree. It's unfortunate that the law won't handle it that way, and I doubt
> the parents will either. When you have kids like that, you generally have
> parents with the same sorts of attitudes. I can almost guarantee that the
> parents will defend their sons: "Oh, it was only my son having a little fun.
> It was only some cats, after all. Boys will be boys. You bleeding heart
> whacko animal rights loonies are making a big deal out of nothing." Kind of
> like the crap that comes out of Iben Gentner's mouth. (In fact, I wouldn't
> be surprised to learn that dad is out there himself with the BB gun shooting
> at the squirrels in his garden.) And once the judge tells dad how much money
> he owes the families of the victims, I can guarantee you that dad will go
> home and beat the cr*p out of the kids (and probably mom too) because now
> he's going to have to cough up hundreds of pounds to pay for the cats'
> medical bills. But, hey screw the cats.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
>
>
>
>
>
> > it would be lovely if they chose not to hurt animals out of a respect
> > for animals and life but with some of these kids that is never going
> > to be the case so you have to employ alternative methods of getting
> > what you want really
>
> > anyone who is confused as to what I mean by conditioning, think about
> > A Clockwork Orange and what the authorities did to Alex to sort him
> > out and rehabilitate him in the second half of the film
>
> > bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I have just received a call from the police to tell us that they have
the two boys involved with the incident have just been released from
custody. They have just been questioned under caution, with their
respective parents attending because you can't question a child over
here unless they are present- or a social worker if the parents are
unable to attend for any reason.

The good news is that they have confessed to all of the shootings &
have been charged with the offense & their parents have agreed to foot
the bills,. But the bad news, is that they have accepted a caution.

In the UK when you accept a caution it is admitting guilt, but you get
away with it without a true blemish on your record, and you don't have
have to attend court.
I am sorely disappointed that is the case, because I was looking
forward to attending their hearing with my BB rifle over my
shoulder..after all, if they can do it & get away with it, why
wouldn't I?

Unfortunately, because they had unblemished records until this
incident, the police were willing to allow them to accept a caution in
this instance.
However, the RSPCA have no such qualms about letting them off and will
be bringing a private prosecution against them for animal cruelty, so
this is not the end of the matter thankfully.

The only other upside that I can think of presently is that we know
them, & their parents, and we know where they live too.
Interestingly, one of the boy's father's is head of the maths
department @ a school that we were allocated for our daughter this
coming September.( Until we screamed at the top of our lungs @ our
Member of Parliament, & asked why she didn't meet the criteria to
attend our local school-They gave us the place we deserved last week I
love it when I'm right about something- who isn't?)
Going too far off thread there, sorry!

They were initially arrested under caution last night. Their homes
were search & they found the guns as well as the pellets that they had
left. This was the reason for keeping the pellets BTW, I stand
corrected on that one, soz!

They were questioned, but they denied the shootings to start with. It
was the father that I mention who had a 5minute session with his son,
before recommending the interview, and admitted his part in the
shootings & noting the other child mas his partner in crime.

So Basically they got off Scott free so far, as far as I am
concerned;o(
Both boys are aged 14 & have been to see us as well as all of the
other families involved to apologize for what they did to our pets. In
the case of the family who lost their cat, that amounts to Nothing!!

I'm sure Ross will meet them somewhere one dark night in a nice remote
alley way;in fact I am certain of it!!

I am glad that they have agreed to pay costs incurred, & can only hope
that the RSPCA bring a better case to court so that the bench do
decide to make them do community service @ the very least. I agree
with the suggestions put forward by you (but don't think I would get
away with the base ball bat theory, unfortunately)
I think it would be excellent to make them do a month at a vets
[email protected] least they would have to face some of the things that they
thought a laugh @ the time...

If the parents don't pay up, however, then it will become a matter for
the court because they have signed a binding contract to say that they
will pay each family 40 per week. If they default, then we go back to
court.
I am quite certain that both families will be facing a great deal of
overtime from now on for the foreseeable future.
The rifles have been confiscated, & the Police wanted the pellets to
see if they matched up to the batch that they found.
I can only hope that the parents are as disgusted as I would be if I
found out that any child of mine had done something as hideous as this
to other peoples cat's .
Quite disappointing really, but then again, we do have RSPCA case to
look forward to I suppose
S;o)

sheelagh
April 1st 07, 06:27 PM
On 1 Apr, 17:25, "cindys" > wrote:
> "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >> >They may yet be reformed, or even
> >> > reform themselves as they mature. The right kind of punishment for
> >> > such
> >> > individuals would be restitution of your expenses and community service
> >> > at a veterinary hospital.
>
> >> Personally, I think the right kind of punishment would be to pepper these
> >> boys with a few pellets, but that's obviously not going to happen,so
> >> restitution and some sort of comunity service is going to be the best the
> >> law can do (if the law is able to do anything at all, that is).
> >> Personally,
> >> I would not want these boys doing community service at a veterinray
> >> hospital
> >> where my animals were patients, however. I would be really afraid.
>
> > personally i do not think such community work would have any effect on
> > these little ****s whatsoever, i think they are most probably beyond
> > any sort of counselling or help and just need a damn good beating. You
> > cannot reason with some kids who do nto have the mental ability to
> > understand that what they do is wrong and who cannot understand
> > suffering in others (look up Theory of Mind, any child development
> > text book will refer to it, look up Piaget too) as they are incapable
> > of grasping the concept that other living creatures feel pain or
> > suffering or hurt as they do and that other living creatures deserve
> > respect and care as they do themselves. These people do not 'attend'
> > to the pain they cause in others they just 'attend' to the feeling of
> > enjoyment they themselves feel when they inflict pain on these other
> > ceratrures, does that make sense? that is someone with 'psychotic'
> > tendencies works and thiniks, (look up psychotic somewhere, preferably
> > a psychology textbook).
>
> I agree. Or they take pleasure in inflicting the pain.
>
>
>
> > Now a damn good beating WOULD work because the one thing these kids
> > woudl understand is that they temselves want to avoid feeling their
> > own pain and if NOT inflicting pain on innocent animals means that
> > they AVOID getting a painful beating, then they will refrain from
> > bhurting animals. This is a kind of CONDITIONING, called NEGATIVE
> > REINFORCEMENT heard of it? they learn to avoid doing the action which
> > woudl result in something unpleasant happening to them, fairly simple
> > really.
>
> I agree. It's unfortunate that the law won't handle it that way, and I doubt
> the parents will either. When you have kids like that, you generally have
> parents with the same sorts of attitudes. I can almost guarantee that the
> parents will defend their sons: "Oh, it was only my son having a little fun.
> It was only some cats, after all. Boys will be boys. You bleeding heart
> whacko animal rights loonies are making a big deal out of nothing." Kind of
> like the crap that comes out of Iben Gentner's mouth. (In fact, I wouldn't
> be surprised to learn that dad is out there himself with the BB gun shooting
> at the squirrels in his garden.) And once the judge tells dad how much money
> he owes the families of the victims, I can guarantee you that dad will go
> home and beat the cr*p out of the kids (and probably mom too) because now
> he's going to have to cough up hundreds of pounds to pay for the cats'
> medical bills. But, hey screw the cats.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
>
>
>
>
>
> > it would be lovely if they chose not to hurt animals out of a respect
> > for animals and life but with some of these kids that is never going
> > to be the casesoyou have to employ alternative methods of getting
> > what you want really
>
> > anyone who is confused as to what I mean by conditioning, think about
> > A Clockwork Orange and what the authorities did to Alex to sort him
> > out and rehabilitate him in the second half of the film
>
> > bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I have just received a call from the police to tell us that they have
the two boys involved with the incident have just been released from
custody. They have just been questioned under caution, with their
respective parents attending because you can't question a child over
here unless they are present- or a social worker if the parents are
unable to attend for any reason.

The good news is that they have confessed to all of the shootings &
have been charged with the offense & their parents have agreed to
foot
the bills,. But the bad news, is that they have accepted a caution.


In the UK when you accept a caution it is admitting guilt, but you
get
away with it without a true blemish on your record, and you don't
have
have to attend court.
I am sorely disappointed that is the case, because I was looking
forward to attending their hearing with my BB rifle over my
shoulder..after all, if they can do it & get away with it, why
wouldn't I?


Unfortunately, because they had unblemished records until this
incident, the police were willing to allow them to accept a caution
in
this instance.
However, the RSPCA have no such qualms about letting them off and
will
be bringing a private prosecution against them for animal cruelty, so
this is not the end of the matter thankfully.


The only other upside that I can think of presently is that we know
them, & their parents, and we know where they live too.
Interestingly, one of the boy's father's is head of the maths
department @ a school that we were allocated for our daughter this
coming September.( Until we screamed at the top of our lungs @ our
Member of Parliament, & asked why she didn't meet the criteria to
attend our local school-They gave us the place we deserved last week
I
love it when I'm right about something- who isn't?)
Going too far off thread there, sorry!


They were initially arrested under caution last night. Their homes
were search & they found the guns as well as the pellets that they
had
left. This was the reason for keeping the pellets BTW, I stand
corrected on that one, soz!


They were questioned, but they denied the shootings to start with. It
was the father that I mention who had a 5minute session with his son,
before recommending the interview, and admitted his part in the
shootings & noting the other child mas his partner in crime.


So Basically they got off Scott free so far, as far as I am
concerned;o(
Both boys are aged 14 & have been to see us as well as all of the
other families involved to apologize for what they did to our pets.
In
the case of the family who lost their cat, that amounts to Nothing!!


I'm sure Ross will meet them somewhere one dark night in a nice
remote
alley way;in fact I am certain of it!!


I am glad that they have agreed to pay costs incurred, & can only
hope
that the RSPCA bring a better case to court so that the bench do
decide to make them do community service @ the very least. I agree
with the suggestions put forward by you (but don't think I would get
away with the base ball bat theory, unfortunately)
I think it would be excellent to make them do a month at a vets
[email protected] least they would have to face some of the things that they
thought a laugh @ the time...


If the parents don't pay up, however, then it will become a matter
for
the court because they have signed a binding contract to say that
they
will pay each family 40 per week. If they default, then we go back
to
court.
I am quite certain that both families will be facing a great deal of
overtime from now on for the foreseeable future.
The rifles have been confiscated, & the Police wanted the pellets to
see if they matched up to the batch that they found.
I can only hope that the parents are as disgusted as I would be if I
found out that any child of mine had done something as hideous as
this
to other peoples cat's .
Quite disappointing really, but then again, we do have RSPCA case to
look forward to I suppose
S;o)

cindys
April 1st 07, 07:37 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
oups.com...

>I have just received a call from the police to tell us that they have
the two boys involved with the incident have just been released from
custody. They have just been questioned under caution, with their
respective parents attending because you can't question a child over
here unless they are present- or a social worker if the parents are
unable to attend for any reason.

>The good news is that they have confessed to all of the shootings &
have been charged with the offense & their parents have agreed to foot
the bills,. But the bad news, is that they have accepted a caution.

Predictable.

>In the UK when you accept a caution it is admitting guilt, but you get
away with it without a true blemish on your record, and you don't have
have to attend court.

Yes, of course they're minors (under 18), and we wouldn't want to give them
permanent police records and ruin their chances to get into a good college
just because they got a little wild with a couple of cats. (sarcasm)

>I am sorely disappointed that is the case, because I was looking
forward to attending their hearing with my BB rifle over my
shoulder..after all, if they can do it & get away with it, why
wouldn't I?

>Unfortunately, because they had unblemished records until this
incident, the police were willing to allow them to accept a caution in
this instance.
However, the RSPCA have no such qualms about letting them off and will
be bringing a private prosecution against them for animal cruelty, so
this is not the end of the matter thankfully.

I can't wait for this. How long do you think before this happens?

>The only other upside that I can think of presently is that we know
them, & their parents, and we know where they live too.

My prediction is that at some point, the parents will show up at your front
door and try to convince you that they really are *good* boys, and they are
truly sorry and will never do anything like this again, and won't you please
ask the RSPCA to drop the case?

>They were initially arrested under caution last night. Their homes
were search & they found the guns as well as the pellets that they had
left. This was the reason for keeping the pellets BTW, I stand
corrected on that one, soz!

>They were questioned, but they denied the shootings to start with. It
was the father that I mention who had a 5minute session with his son,
before recommending the interview, and admitted his part in the
shootings & noting the other child mas his partner in crime.

Well, sure. The father isn't stupid. If the sons hadn't confessed, then
there would have been a hearing, and his sons wouldn't have gotten off with
just a warning/caution.

>So Basically they got off Scott free so far, as far as I am
concerned;o(

Yup. Are you surprised?

>Both boys are aged 14 & have been to see us as well as all of the
other families involved to apologize for what they did to our pets. In
the case of the family who lost their cat, that amounts to Nothing!!

>I'm sure Ross will meet them somewhere one dark night in a nice remote
alley way;in fact I am certain of it!!

>I am glad that they have agreed to pay costs incurred, & can only hope
that the RSPCA bring a better case to court so that the bench do
decide to make them do community service @ the very least. I agree
with the suggestions put forward by you (but don't think I would get
away with the base ball bat theory, unfortunately)

I hope the RSPCA goes after them with a vengeance. Perhaps the newspaper
might be interested in the story as well....There are an awful lot of people
in this world who just go ballistic over injured animals (oftentimes more so
than when the victims are humans). I think you would find a great deal of
sympathy and support. And people may contribute money to the RSPCA (which is
probably not a wealthy organization) to help pay for the legal counsel to
prosecute the case, and the publicity would pressure the court not to go
easy.

>I think it would be excellent to make them do a month at a vets
[email protected] least they would have to face some of the things that they
thought a laugh @ the time...

As I said, I would not want these hoodlums at my vet's surgery because they
have no sympathy for animals at all and could not be trusted.

>If the parents don't pay up, however, then it will become a matter for
the court because they have signed a binding contract to say that they
will pay each family 40 per week. If they default, then we go back to
court.

Doesn't that amount to nearly $80 a week in American dollars? $320 a month?
Unless they're quite wealthy, that is a ****load of money! How much do they
owe all together?

>I am quite certain that both families will be facing a great deal of
overtime from now on for the foreseeable future.

Good! And hopefully they will pass their displeasure onto their sons. Much
of this is absolutely the parents' fault. What kind of a parent buys his kid
a BB gun in the first place? And a good parent would have taught his
children that all life is valuable and needs to be respected and defenseless
creatures need to be treated gently. I wouldn't be surprised to discover
that these young hoodlums are schoolyard bullies as well.

>The rifles have been confiscated, & the Police wanted the pellets to
see if they matched up to the batch that they found.
I can only hope that the parents are as disgusted as I would be if I
found out that any child of mine had done something as hideous as this
to other peoples cat's .

Hopefully, but somehow I doubt it. They're probably just furious about the
money and the inconvenience however. And they're probably lecturing their
sons along the lines of "What were you thinking?? Don't you realize you
were putting your future in jeopardy??"

>Quite disappointing really, but then again, we do have RSPCA case to
look forward to I suppose
S;o)

Please keep us informed as things develop.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

cindys
April 1st 07, 07:55 PM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
...
> Cindy don't even bother with him. He has been doing this for years.
> Just kill file him move one.
> He is an attention junkie and he gets it every time someone responds to
> him.
-------
Yes. I know he's a troll. He does this on a variety of newsgroups.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

>
> "cindys" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "IBen Getiner" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >YOU are a nut-job. An obsessive compulsive kook.
>> --------
>> No, you are a nut job, and an obsessive compulsive kook, and a racist
>> idiot who is posting to a newsgroup where he's not wanted. It's people
>> like you who make the world an ugly place. People who feel no sympathy
>> for animals generally feel even less sympathy for human beings. The
>> feline newsgroup is a group for people who love cats and want to talk
>> about cat health and behavior in peace. If you find this offensive, then
>> stick to reading and posting to your usual hate-mongering newsgroups. It
>> is because of people like you that moderated newsgroups are created. You
>> are a worthless, heartless excuse for human being who is desperately in
>> need of psychiatric care. I suggest you get some.
>> Best regards,
>> ---Cindy S.
>>
>
>

Barry
April 1st 07, 08:57 PM
On Apr 1, 1:27 pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:

> I have just received a call from the police to tell us that they have
> the two boys involved with the incident

Excellent!

I wouldn't have thought they would have got caught.. this is good
news.

Oh, I'm sure they already wish they hadn't done this..
40lb a week, for how long? till the vets are paid off?

bookie
April 1st 07, 11:48 PM
On 1 Apr, 18:27, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 1 Apr, 17:25, "cindys" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
> > >> >They may yet be reformed, or even
> > >> > reform themselves as they mature. The right kind of punishment for
> > >> > such
> > >> > individuals would be restitution of your expenses and community service
> > >> > at a veterinary hospital.
>
> > >> Personally, I think the right kind of punishment would be to pepper these
> > >> boys with a few pellets, but that's obviously not going to happen,so
> > >> restitution and some sort of comunity service is going to be the best the
> > >> law can do (if the law is able to do anything at all, that is).
> > >> Personally,
> > >> I would not want these boys doing community service at a veterinray
> > >> hospital
> > >> where my animals were patients, however. I would be really afraid.
>
> > > personally i do not think such community work would have any effect on
> > > these little ****s whatsoever, i think they are most probably beyond
> > > any sort of counselling or help and just need a damn good beating. You
> > > cannot reason with some kids who do nto have the mental ability to
> > > understand that what they do is wrong and who cannot understand
> > > suffering in others (look up Theory of Mind, any child development
> > > text book will refer to it, look up Piaget too) as they are incapable
> > > of grasping the concept that other living creatures feel pain or
> > > suffering or hurt as they do and that other living creatures deserve
> > > respect and care as they do themselves. These people do not 'attend'
> > > to the pain they cause in others they just 'attend' to the feeling of
> > > enjoyment they themselves feel when they inflict pain on these other
> > > ceratrures, does that make sense? that is someone with 'psychotic'
> > > tendencies works and thiniks, (look up psychotic somewhere, preferably
> > > a psychology textbook).
>
> > I agree. Or they take pleasure in inflicting the pain.
>
> > > Now a damn good beating WOULD work because the one thing these kids
> > > woudl understand is that they temselves want to avoid feeling their
> > > own pain and if NOT inflicting pain on innocent animals means that
> > > they AVOID getting a painful beating, then they will refrain from
> > > bhurting animals. This is a kind of CONDITIONING, called NEGATIVE
> > > REINFORCEMENT heard of it? they learn to avoid doing the action which
> > > woudl result in something unpleasant happening to them, fairly simple
> > > really.
>
> > I agree. It's unfortunate that the law won't handle it that way, and I doubt
> > the parents will either. When you have kids like that, you generally have
> > parents with the same sorts of attitudes. I can almost guarantee that the
> > parents will defend their sons: "Oh, it was only my son having a little fun.
> > It was only some cats, after all. Boys will be boys. You bleeding heart
> > whacko animal rights loonies are making a big deal out of nothing." Kind of
> > like the crap that comes out of Iben Gentner's mouth. (In fact, I wouldn't
> > be surprised to learn that dad is out there himself with the BB gun shooting
> > at the squirrels in his garden.) And once the judge tells dad how much money
> > he owes the families of the victims, I can guarantee you that dad will go
> > home and beat the cr*p out of the kids (and probably mom too) because now
> > he's going to have to cough up hundreds of pounds to pay for the cats'
> > medical bills. But, hey screw the cats.
> > Best regards,
> > ---Cindy S.
>
> > > it would be lovely if they chose not to hurt animals out of a respect
> > > for animals and life but with some of these kids that is never going
> > > to be the casesoyou have to employ alternative methods of getting
> > > what you want really
>
> > > anyone who is confused as to what I mean by conditioning, think about
> > > A Clockwork Orange and what the authorities did to Alex to sort him
> > > out and rehabilitate him in the second half of the film
>
> > > bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I have just received a call from the police to tell us that they have
> the two boys involved with the incident have just been released from
> custody. They have just been questioned under caution, with their
> respective parents attending because you can't question a child over
> here unless they are present- or a social worker if the parents are
> unable to attend for any reason.
>
> The good news is that they have confessed to all of the shootings &
> have been charged with the offense & their parents have agreed to
> foot
> the bills,. But the bad news, is that they have accepted a caution.
>
> In the UK when you accept a caution it is admitting guilt, but you
> get
> away with it without a true blemish on your record, and you don't
> have
> have to attend court.
> I am sorely disappointed that is the case, because I was looking
> forward to attending their hearing with my BB rifle over my
> shoulder..after all, if they can do it & get away with it, why
> wouldn't I?
>
> Unfortunately, because they had unblemished records until this
> incident, the police were willing to allow them to accept a caution
> in
> this instance.
> However, the RSPCA have no such qualms about letting them off and
> will
> be bringing a private prosecution against them for animal cruelty, so
> this is not the end of the matter thankfully.
>
> The only other upside that I can think of presently is that we know
> them, & their parents, and we know where they live too.
> Interestingly, one of the boy's father's is head of the maths
> department @ a school that we were allocated for our daughter this
> coming September.( Until we screamed at the top of our lungs @ our
> Member of Parliament, & asked why she didn't meet the criteria to
> attend our local school-They gave us the place we deserved last week
> I
> love it when I'm right about something- who isn't?)
> Going too far off thread there, sorry!
>
> They were initially arrested under caution last night. Their homes
> were search & they found the guns as well as the pellets that they
> had
> left. This was the reason for keeping the pellets BTW, I stand
> corrected on that one, soz!
>
> They were questioned, but they denied the shootings to start with. It
> was the father that I mention who had a 5minute session with his son,
> before recommending the interview, and admitted his part in the
> shootings & noting the other child mas his partner in crime.
>
> So Basically they got off Scott free so far, as far as I am
> concerned;o(
> Both boys are aged 14 & have been to see us as well as all of the
> other families involved to apologize for what they did to our pets.
> In
> the case of the family who lost their cat, that amounts to Nothing!!
>
> I'm sure Ross will meet them somewhere one dark night in a nice
> remote
> alley way;in fact I am certain of it!!
>
> I am glad that they have agreed to pay costs incurred, & can only
> hope
> that the RSPCA bring a better case to court so that the bench do
> decide to make them do community service @ the very least. I agree
> with the suggestions put forward by you (but don't think I would get
> away with the base ball bat theory, unfortunately)
> I think it would be excellent to make them do a month at a vets
> [email protected] least they would have to face some of the things that they
> thought a laugh @ the time...
>
> If the parents don't pay up, however, then it will become a matter
> for
> the court because they have signed a binding contract to say that
> they
> will pay each family 40 per week. If they default, then we go back
> to
> court.
> I am quite certain that both families will be facing a great deal of
> overtime from now on for the foreseeable future.
> The rifles have been confiscated, & the Police wanted the pellets to
> see if they matched up to the batch that they found.
> I can only hope that the parents are as disgusted as I would be if I
> found out that any child of mine had done something as hideous as
> this
> to other peoples cat's .
> Quite disappointing really, but then again, we do have RSPCA case to
> look forward to I suppose
> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

very quickly, but i will write a long winded response, later on i
promise, EXCELLENT!!!
liek you sheelagh i am not satisfied with the police letting the
little ****s go with just a caution, that is as good as doing nothing
in my book, especially as one of the cats died because the actions of
these mindless little ****s.

if the parents do try to come round and persuade you to get the RSPCA
to sdrop the case )which i doubt they would go that is interfering
with a witness and strictly illegal)_you must stand your ground. I
don't give a **** if their futures are affected and it might have an
effect on which uni they go to (which it won';t cos universities don't
look at that anyway) blah blah blah, that si nothing compared to the
horrific injuries ringo will ahve to live with no forever, or compared
to cat who will not be enjoying any sort of life at all from now on.

Sod them, they shoudl have got a far harsher punishment than what they
have got, they got off very lightly i think, and I also think that
makign the parents pay just 40 a week is not enough, they shoud have
to pay it all in full within a week just as you and the other families
probably had to do yourselves to get your cats treated.

go to the papers and make a fuss, the fact that one of the kids
fathers is head of the maths dept at some local school is good as it
will be something the local rag may want to make song and dance about
(I can see the headline now "do you want your child educated by this
man who teaches his own kids to be gun-toting hooligans?"). The more
**** the parents get for their kids behaviour the more **** they will
give their kids as a result and hopefully that will make the kids, and
other kids inthe area, think twice about doing similar again. Ok i
woudld rather have them not hurt animals out of love and respect for
animals, but if fear of reprisal does the same job and stops them
taking pot shots at people's pets than that ios fine by me, means to
an end and all that.

good that something has been done, but I share your frustration that
it seems rather pathetic. Good that the RSPCA are going to take up the
cause, fingers crossed they are successful and really shaft these
little ****s.

hugs and purrs to ringo, poor lamb
Bookie

Charlie Wilkes
April 2nd 07, 12:12 AM
On Sun, 01 Apr 2007 09:21:00 -0400, cindys wrote:
>
> Please don't be offended Charlie, but I think you're being naive. It
> seems that wife-abusers, child-beaters, mass murderers, almost
> invariably have a history of hurting animals in their youth. I think
> there is something desperately wrong with any person who (for no reason
> at all) could deliberately shoot (at point-blank range) a defenseless
> creature who was doing him no harm. I think these boys desperately need
> counseling. This is not just teenaged boys running amok.

I'm not offended. I don't know who did this or what their motives might
have been, and certainly I am not an expert on reforming aberrant
behavior. Maybe the right solution is what Nomen proposes, i.e., beat
the culprit senseless and leave him crippled for life. But anyone who
sets out on such a course had better be prepared to handle the
consequences, whatever they might be.

Charlie

Barry
April 2nd 07, 01:12 AM
On Apr 1, 6:48 pm, "bookie" > wrote:
t to make song and dance about
> (I can see the headline now "do you want your child educated by this
> man who teaches his own kids to be gun-toting hooligans?"). The more
> **** the ...
>
> read more

That's a vain persuit, bah

**** them little asshole snots...

she can kick their asses on the down low

all you women are jackasses any way, you let your emotions rue
everything

Charlie Wilkes
April 2nd 07, 01:19 AM
On Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:12:34 -0700, Barry wrote:

> On Apr 1, 6:48 pm, "bookie" > wrote: t to make
> song and dance about
>> (I can see the headline now "do you want your child educated by this
>> man who teaches his own kids to be gun-toting hooligans?"). The more
>> **** the ...
>>
>> read more »
>
> That's a vain persuit, bah
>
> **** them little asshole snots...
>
> she can kick their asses on the down low
>
> all you women are jackasses any way, you let your emotions rue
> everything

Now, what in the world would make you say that, Barry? These fine people
merely have an elevated sense of justice, i.e., beating the crap out of
14 year old kids and ruining the careers of their parents.

Charlie

IBen Getiner
April 2nd 07, 01:21 AM
On Apr 1, 9:21 am, "cindys" > wrote:
> "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> snip>
>
> > Yes. I completely understand your anger. Shooting Ringo was a cruel and
> > gratuitous act that resulted in a great deal of suffering for the animal
> > as well as grief and expense for your family. There is no excuse, and
> > the only mitigating factor is that he is recovering well from what could
> > have been a fatal attack. However, I tend to think this was probably the
> > work of teenaged boys run amok with obnoxious impulses they don't
> > understand well enough to control.
>
> Please don't be offended Charlie, but I think you're being naive.

Oh... IBen's a kook but Charlie here... He's just 'naive'... Uh,
huhhh..

> It seems
> that wife-abusers, child-beaters, mass murderers, almost invariably have a
> history of hurting animals in their youth.


ALL young boys go thru a stage of sadism. All. It's only the ones with
parents like YOU who end up being serial killers. Because you don't
see it for the temporal thing that it is. Instead, you make your kid
feel 'special' about himself. I'm not saying that it's right for a
young boy to do that. Only that all boys go thru it. Just like most go
thru a stealing phase. And almost all outgrow that as well. Are you
going to tell me that most of THEM are going to live a life of crime?
I myself could steal the stool out from under the 7/11 clerk when I
was 15, yet I have been a steadily employed taxpayer for longer than
you've probably been alive. It's parents like YOU who have screw up
the heads of our youth today... with all of your paranoid 'modern
sensibilities' and the like. Hell, we rarely IF EVER had the problem
of violence that today's youth seem to emulate and live for. And I
take that to be a direct reflection on obsessive nail-biting weird-O's
like YOU.

> I think there is something
> desperately wrong with any person who (for no reason at all) could
> deliberately shoot (at point-blank range) a defenseless creature who was
> doing him no harm.

How do you know that? Were you there? 'Probably', the man said..
You're presupposing the cat to be innocent of any destructive wrong-
doing, too, by the way. When just look at who it is that he has
'taking care' of him...



> I think these boys desperately need counseling. This is
> not just teenaged boys running amok.
>

You don't know that either... Talking out of your azz once again.


> >They may yet be reformed, or even
> > reform themselves as they mature. The right kind of punishment for such
> > individuals would be restitution of your expenses and community service
> > at a veterinary hospital.
>
> Personally, I think the right kind of punishment would be to pepper these
> boys with a few pellets,
>


Ahh, ahh, ahhhh...! Two wrongs don't make a right! (Three rights make
a left, though. Think about it...:)
But really, it wouldn't be a big deal even if you did. When I was a
lad, we used to have BB gun fights all the time. And no one ever got
hurt.

> but that's obviously not going to happen, so
> restitution and some sort of comunity service is going to be the best the
> law can do (if the law is able to do anything at all, that is). Personally,
> I would not want these boys doing community service at a veterinray hospital
> where my animals were patients, however. I would be really afraid.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.


Well, damn, Cindy Z...! No calls for the death penalty...?? You'll
never see a time when a liberal thinks more like a conservative than
when someone else is attempting to ply some much-needed DISCIPLINE
onto one of their wild, uncouth, lawless 'precious' pets... The
hypocrisy that you reek of would be sickening to a rotting corpses...


IBen Getiner

IBen Getiner
April 2nd 07, 01:24 AM
On Apr 1, 11:18�am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 1 Apr, 15:49, "Matthew" > wrote:
>
> > "Barry" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > > On Apr 1, 5:29 am, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > >> That's good looking out Matthew, if only people felt more like you do.
>
> > >>IBen Getiner
>
> > > Well that's a nice change of heart Iben
>
> > Thankfully though I have him blocked *I scares the hell out of me that he
> > agrees with me. *Time to call my shrink
>
> LOL, Too True Matthew...
> I refuse to give him what he is looking for either.
>
> Once upon a few weeks ago, I would have felt insenced & outraged, but
> more recently, I see him for what he is- just like my boys were when
> they were 2year olds, screaming @ the top of their lungs, trying to
> get their own way.
>
> We used to have a speacial name for it too. It was called the DYING
> FLY, simply because they looked like one...lying their on their backs
> with all four legs scrambling & a constant buzzz coming from their
> lungs till the end.
> Meet you @ the shrinks...
> S;o)

LOL...!! And spoken with such passion and conviction, too...


IBen Getiner

IBen Getiner
April 2nd 07, 01:33 AM
On Apr 1, 1:27�pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 1 Apr, 17:25, "cindys" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
> > >> >They may yet be reformed, or even
> > >> > reform themselves as they mature. *The right kind of punishment for
> > >> > such
> > >> > individuals would be restitution of your expenses and community service
> > >> > at a veterinary hospital.
>
> > >> Personally, I think the right kind of punishment would be to pepper these
> > >> boys with a few pellets, but that's obviously not going to happen,so
> > >> restitution and some sort of comunity service is going to be the best the
> > >> law can do (if the law is able to do anything at all, that is).
> > >> Personally,
> > >> I would not want these boys doing community service at a veterinray
> > >> hospital
> > >> where my animals were patients, however. I would be really afraid.
>
> > > personally i do not think such community work would have any effect on
> > > these little ****s whatsoever, i think they are most probably beyond
> > > any sort of counselling or help and just need a damn good beating. You
> > > cannot reason with some kids who do nto have the mental ability to
> > > understand that what they do is wrong and who cannot understand
> > > suffering in others (look up *Theory of Mind, any child development
> > > text book will refer to it, look up Piaget too) as they are incapable
> > > of grasping the concept that other living creatures feel pain or
> > > suffering or hurt as they do and that other living creatures deserve
> > > respect and care as they do themselves. These people do not 'attend'
> > > to the pain they cause in others they just 'attend' to the feeling of
> > > enjoyment they themselves feel when they inflict pain on these other
> > > ceratrures, does that make sense? that is someone with 'psychotic'
> > > tendencies works and thiniks, (look up psychotic somewhere, preferably
> > > a psychology textbook).
>
> > I agree. Or they take pleasure in inflicting the pain.
>
> > > Now a damn good beating WOULD work because the one thing these kids
> > > woudl understand is that they temselves want to avoid feeling their
> > > own pain and if NOT inflicting pain on innocent animals means that
> > > they AVOID getting a painful beating, then they will refrain from
> > > bhurting animals. This is a kind of CONDITIONING, called NEGATIVE
> > > REINFORCEMENT heard of it? they learn to avoid doing the action which
> > > woudl result in something unpleasant happening to them, fairly simple
> > > really.
>
> > I agree. It's unfortunate that the law won't handle it that way, and I doubt
> > the parents will either. When you have kids like that, you generally have
> > parents with the same sorts of attitudes. I can almost guarantee that the
> > parents will defend their sons: "Oh, it was only my son having a little fun.
> > It was only some cats, after all. Boys will be boys. You bleeding heart
> > whacko animal rights loonies are making a big deal out of nothing." Kind of
> > like the crap that comes out of Iben Gentner's mouth. (In fact, I wouldn't
> > be surprised to learn that dad is out there himself with the BB gun shooting
> > at the squirrels in his garden.) And once the judge tells dad how much money
> > he owes the families of the victims, I can guarantee you that dad will go
> > home and beat the cr*p out of the kids (and probably mom too) because now
> > he's going to have to cough up hundreds of pounds to pay for the cats'
> > medical bills. But, hey screw the cats.
> > Best regards,
> > ---Cindy S.
>
> > > it would be lovely if they chose not to hurt animals out of a respect
> > > for animals and life but with some of these kids that is never going
> > > to be the casesoyou have to employ alternative methods of getting
> > > what you want really
>
> > > anyone who is confused as to what I mean by conditioning, think about
> > > A Clockwork Orange and what the authorities did to Alex to sort him
> > > out and rehabilitate him in the second half of the film
>
> > > bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I have just received a call from the police to tell us that they have
> the two boys involved with the incident have just been released from
> custody. They have just been questioned under caution, with their
> respective parents attending because you can't question a child over
> here unless they are present- or a social worker if the parents are
> unable to attend for any reason.
>
> The good news is that they have confessed to all of the shootings &
> have been charged with the offense & their parents have agreed to
> foot
> the bills,. But the bad news, is that they have accepted a caution.
>
> In the UK when you accept a caution it is admitting guilt, but you
> get
> away with it without a true blemish on your record, and you don't
> have
> have to attend court.
> I am sorely disappointed that is the case, because I was looking
> forward to attending their hearing with my BB rifle over my
> shoulder..after all, if they can do it & get away with it, why
> wouldn't I?
>
> Unfortunately, because they had unblemished records until this
> incident, the police were willing to allow them to accept a caution
> in
> this instance.
> However, the RSPCA have no such qualms about letting them off and
> will
> be bringing a private prosecution against them for animal cruelty, so
> this is not the end of the matter thankfully.
>
> The only other upside that I can think of presently is that we know
> them, & their parents, and we know where they live too.
> Interestingly, one of the boy's father's is head of the maths
> department @ a school that we were allocated for our daughter this
> coming September.( Until we screamed at the top of our lungs @ our
> Member of Parliament, & asked why she didn't meet the criteria to
> attend our local school-They gave us the place we deserved last week
> I
> love it when I'm right about something- who isn't?)
> Going too far off thread there, sorry!
>
> They were initially arrested under caution last night. Their homes
> were search & they found the guns as well as the pellets that they
> had
> left. This was the reason for keeping the pellets BTW, I stand
> corrected on that one, soz!
>
> They were questioned, but they denied the shootings to start with. It
> was the father that I mention who had a 5minute session with his son,
> before recommending the interview, and admitted his part in the
> shootings & noting the other child mas his partner in crime.
>
> So Basically they got off Scott free so far, as far as I am
> concerned;o(
> Both boys are aged 14 & have been to see us as well as all of the
> other families involved to apologize for what they did to our pets.
> In
> the case of the family who lost their cat, that amounts to Nothing!!
>
> I'm sure Ross will meet them somewhere one dark night in a nice
> remote
> alley way;in fact I am certain of it!!
>
> I am glad that they have agreed to pay costs incurred, & can only
> hope
> that the RSPCA bring a better case to court so that the bench do
> decide to make them do community service @ the very least. I agree
> with the suggestions put forward by you (but don't think I would get
> away with the base ball bat theory, unfortunately)
> I think it would be excellent to make them do a month at a vets
> [email protected] least they would have to face some of the things that they
> thought a laugh @ the time...
>
> If the parents don't pay up, however, then it will become a matter
> for
> the court because they have signed a binding contract to say that
> they
> will pay each family 40 per week. If they default, then we go back
> to
> court.
> I am quite certain that both families will be facing a great deal of
> overtime from now on for the foreseeable future.
> The rifles have been confiscated, & the *Police wanted the pellets to
> see if they matched up to the batch that they found.
> I can only hope that the parents are as disgusted as I would be if I
> found out that any child of mine had done something as hideous as
> this
> to other peoples cat's .
> Quite disappointing really, but then again, we do have RSPCA case to
> look forward to I suppose
> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hahhh...!!!!!! You're a ****ing LIAR!! You're just trying to pull
your sorry helpless, hapless ass out of the fire. That's all.
Personally, I don't believe a WORD of it.
In fact, the whole indecent was probably a staged mock-up. Just to
appease some kind of sick 'need' that you have for attention and the
sympathy of others.. Or maybe you hurt Ringo yourself. Like people
with that Munchhousen syndrome do to their own kids. Anyway, when It
makes the papers, POST IT. Otherwise, you're just a ****ing cheap, two-
bit liar in my book.


IBen Getiner


IBen

Lis
April 2nd 07, 03:04 AM
On Apr 1, 11:36 am, "bookie" > wrote:
> On 1 Apr, 07:30, Nomen Nescio > wrote:
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> > From: Charlie Wilkes >
>
> > >However, I tend to think this was probably the
> > >work of teenaged boys run amok with obnoxious impulses they don't
> > >understand well enough to control.
>
> > That's an awfully f**kin' sexist thing to say. Are you saying that teenaged girls
> > are incapable of runing amok with obnoxious impulses. Women are the
> > same as men. At least that's what "cybercat" and "-L." like to claim. :)
>
> no,girls do not have the same high levels of testosteorone flowing
> through their systems as teenage boys do and so do nto 'usually' have
> anywhere near the same tyopes of violent tendencies that boys do.
> Girls and boys are very different and i woudl be VERY surprised if it
> was some girl gang who did this, they just would not (too busy hanging
> aournd on street corners smoking cigarettes and trying to attract the
> attention of local boys for a start)
>
> > I'd lean towards f**king them up real bad with a baseball bat, telling them
> > that they just fell down the stairs, and if they ever claim that anything else
> > caused their injuries they will wind up in a shallow grave in the woods.
> > Hey, it's worked wonders for "attitude adjustments" in the past and a good
> > limp will serve as a reminder for the rest of their lives.
> > Oh, and they've got a month to pay for the vet bills, also.
>
> i agree with you there! except I would give them a week to pay up for
> the vet's bill and if they go over that time then they have to pay
> interest onthe amount owing, in fingers..
>
> character reform is not always possible,. some people just cannot be
> reformed, particualrly if their behaviour is as a result of some brain
> structure or activity dysfunction (ever read the case of Phineas
> Gage?). In these cases you really can do nothing to teach them that
> waht they have done is wrong and not to do it again, they are
> incapable of learning that to hurt other people is bad and wrong liek
> the rest of us, and so locking them up and keepign the m away from
> innocent and vulnerable peolpe and animals is the only way
>
> sorry for the tree-huggers and liberals out there who think that all
> souls can be saved but it is true!

So, I'm reading along, nodding agreement with everything you're
saying--and then I hit this "tree-huggers and liberals out there"
crap. Have you stopped to consider the number of people on the Right-
Thinking Conservative part of the political spectrum who'd regard YOU
as a "tree-hugger and liberal" because you care so strongly about the
mistreatment of animals?. And not just mouth-foamers like our friend
Iben, but conservatives who can speak and write coherently and hold
responsible jobs.

Not everyone who votes differently than you do is a cartoon.

<snip the rest, because crap like that means there's no need to read
further>

Lis

Lis
April 2nd 07, 03:19 AM
On Apr 1, 1:22 pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:

<snip>

> I have just received a call from the police to tell us that they have
> the two boys involved with the incident have just been released from
> custody. They have just been questioned under caution, with their
> respective parents attending because you can't question a child over
> here unless they are present- or a social worker if the parents are
> unable to attend for any reason.
>
> The good news is that they have confessed to all of the shootings &
> have been charged with the offense & their parents have agreed to foot
> the bills,. But the bad news, is that they have accepted a caution.

This is really excellent news, imperfect as it is. At the very least,
it's going to cost them money, which they probably care about more
than most other things, and this is not the end of it yet.

> In the UK when you accept a caution it is admitting guilt, but you get
> away with it without a true blemish on your record, and you don't have
> have to attend court.
> I am sorely disappointed that is the case, because I was looking
> forward to attending their hearing with my BB rifle over my
> shoulder..after all, if they can do it & get away with it, why
> wouldn't I?
>
> Unfortunately, because they had unblemished records until this
> incident, the police were willing to allow them to accept a caution in
> this instance.
> However, the RSPCA have no such qualms about letting them off and will
> be bringing a private prosecution against them for animal cruelty, so
> this is not the end of the matter thankfully.
>
> The only other upside that I can think of presently is that we know
> them, & their parents, and we know where they live too.
> Interestingly, one of the boy's father's is head of the maths
> department @ a school that we were allocated for our daughter this
> coming September.( Until we screamed at the top of our lungs @ our
> Member of Parliament, & asked why she didn't meet the criteria to
> attend our local school-They gave us the place we deserved last week I
> love it when I'm right about something- who isn't?)
> Going too far off thread there, sorry!
>
> They were initially arrested under caution last night. Their homes
> were search & they found the guns as well as the pellets that they had
> left. This was the reason for keeping the pellets BTW, I stand
> corrected on that one, soz!
>
> They were questioned, but they denied the shootings to start with. It
> was the father that I mention who had a 5minute session with his son,
> before recommending the interview, and admitted his part in the
> shootings & noting the other child mas his partner in crime.
>
> So Basically they got off Scott free so far, as far as I am
> concerned;o(
> Both boys are aged 14 & have been to see us as well as all of the
> other families involved to apologize for what they did to our pets. In
> the case of the family who lost their cat, that amounts to Nothing!!
>
> I'm sure Ross will meet them somewhere one dark night in a nice remote
> alley way;in fact I am certain of it!!
>
> I am glad that they have agreed to pay costs incurred, & can only hope
> that the RSPCA bring a better case to court so that the bench do
> decide to make them do community service @ the very least. I agree
> with the suggestions put forward by you (but don't think I would get
> away with the base ball bat theory, unfortunately)
> I think it would be excellent to make them do a month at a vets
> [email protected] least they would have to face some of the things that they
> thought a laugh @ the time...
>
> If the parents don't pay up, however, then it will become a matter for
> the court because they have signed a binding contract to say that they
> will pay each family 40 per week. If they default, then we go back to
> court.
> I am quite certain that both families will be facing a great deal of
> overtime from now on for the foreseeable future.
> The rifles have been confiscated, & the Police wanted the pellets to
> see if they matched up to the batch that they found.
> I can only hope that the parents are as disgusted as I would be if I
> found out that any child of mine had done something as hideous as this
> to other peoples cat's .
> Quite disappointing really, but then again, we do have RSPCA case to
> look forward to I suppose
> S;o)- Hide quoted text -

Sheelagh, if the parents truly take this seriously (and they may; good
parents DON'T always get the children they deserve, or bad ones,
either), they will pay up. If they don't take it seriously, they won't
pay up, and you'll get your shot at them in court. And if the RSPCA
case goes forward, you may get your shot at them in court ANYWAY.
These kids haven't gotten off scot-free yet; the wheels of justice
have just started grinding.

Frustrating as heck, of course, that they grind so slow, but there's
still an excellent chance you'll get some kind of justice for Ringo.

Lis

cindys
April 2nd 07, 06:02 AM
"Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:12:34 -0700, Barry wrote:
>
>> On Apr 1, 6:48 pm, "bookie" > wrote: t to make
>> song and dance about
>>> (I can see the headline now "do you want your child educated by this
>>> man who teaches his own kids to be gun-toting hooligans?"). The more
>>> **** the ...
>>>
>>> read more
>>
>> That's a vain persuit, bah
>>
>> **** them little asshole snots...
>>
>> she can kick their asses on the down low
>>
>> all you women are jackasses any way, you let your emotions rue
>> everything

And if someone shot Jupiter with a BB gun, how would you respond Barry?

>
> Now, what in the world would make you say that, Barry? These fine people
> merely have an elevated sense of justice, i.e., beating the crap out of
> 14 year old kids and ruining the careers of their parents.

I wasn't the one advocating ruining the parents' careers, but you really
don't think these kids deserve a beating for what they did ? I don't know
what's the law in England, but if they were adults and living in the USA,
they could easily end up spending a year in jail for animal abuse.
Yesterday, I was reading in our local paper about someone who had killed a
pygmy goat in a very unpleasant way. The police are putting a lot of effort
into finding the culprits. If they are found, I can guarantee they will be
looking at jail time. People who abuse/kill other people often began their
careers by tormenting small animals.

We once had some acquaintances whose son first killed his goldfish, then
killed his hamster and subsequently was abusive to the family dog. We saw
the child jumping on the dog and hitting the dog. The father said to the
kid: "Stop doing that because the dog might bite you." The father then went
on to say that when they got the dog, he was such a nice dog, and he
couldn't understand why the dog had been getting progressively nastier. On
another occasion, we saw the same child using a huge branch to damage
someone's car. Mutual friends would often say that the child was seriously
deranged and well on his way to being a psychopath. The child obviously had
some very serious mental issues, but the parents were treating this very
lightly. It was clear that they considered animals expendable and didn't
think their son had any problems.

When you see your son has killed deliberately killed his fish and his
hamster, you don't respond by getting him a dog on the basis that "the dog
can fight back." I don't know who was worse, the kid or the parents. But
both times I personally have known/witnessed a situation where a child was
being abusive to an animal, there was a parent who was well aware of the
behavior and didn't think it was a big deal.

I'm sorry but people like this are disgusting, and I have absolutely zero
sympathy for them. No, I won't go so far as to say that someone should shoot
a BB gun into the kid's heart, like he did to poor Wizard (the cat who was
killed), but if someone decided to give these boys a well-deserved beating,
I certainly wouldn't be losing any sleep over it.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

IBen Getiner
April 2nd 07, 06:31 AM
On Apr 2, 1:02�am, "cindys" > wrote:
> "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:12:34 -0700, Barry wrote:
>
> >> On Apr 1, 6:48 pm, "bookie" > wrote: t to make
> >> song and dance about
> >>> (I can see the headline now "do you want your child educated by this
> >>> man who teaches his own kids to be gun-toting hooligans?"). The more
> >>> **** the ...
>
> >>> read more
>
> >> That's a vain persuit, bah
>
> >> **** them little asshole snots...
>
> >> she can kick their asses on the down low
>
> >> all you women are jackasses any way, you let your emotions rue
> >> everything
>
> And if someone shot Jupiter with a BB gun, how would you respond Barry?


Let me gain a little clarity here... Do you mean someone coming into
his home or yard and then doing it? Or do you mean anywhere else?
Because if you are the owner of a straying nuisance tom-cat, don't be
surprised if your cat ends up like poor ol' Ringo here. People aren't
gonna take that ****. I don't care how many laws people like you
attempt to enact. I'll happen regardless. Other folks have rights too,
you know. They especially have the right to be free of bothersome
things caused by you, no matter how unintentional they might be. Your
rights end where my nose begins, lady... You would do well to remember
that.


IBen Getiner

IBen Getiner
April 2nd 07, 07:03 AM
On Apr 1, 9:05 am, "cindys" > wrote:
> "IBen Getiner" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
> >YOU are a nut-job. An obsessive compulsive kook.
> --------
> No, you are a nut job, and an obsessive compulsive kook, and a racist idiot

Oh really...? How so, Cindy Z.?

> who is posting to a newsgroup where he's not wanted.
>

LOL...!! Like, do you think for one ****ing second that I give a rat'z
azz about what people like YOU think of me...?! LOL....!! I'm here.
I like it. And there's absolutely, positively, unequivocally NOTHING
WHATSOEVER that you can do about it. Killfiling me included. I know
the drill, shrew. And I NEVER give op. Or in..

> It's people like you
> who make the world an ugly place.
>

Only for dreamers like you, Cindy Z. Only for dreamers like you....

> People who feel no sympathy for animals
> generally feel even less sympathy for human beings.
>

Who said that the people who shot Ringo here don't have sympathy for
animals? The just got plenty tired of being **** on. That's all. And
I'll just bet that they probably thought they'd send shee-whoever a
little message.
See... that's the problem with liberal nut-cases like you... You don't
understand that there is a LIMIT to what you can get away when dealing
with others. That's because your poor drunk old mommy and your weak,
inept 98lb step-daddy never taught you right from wrong. They taught
you that the ****ing world is your oyster and you can have at it all
you please, with no regards to anyone else. They taught you that the
rest of the human race is here on the planet with YOU, instead of you
being on it with US. Selfish ****. There is a limit on your ****ing
'freedoms'. Deal with it, because the rest of the world don't like you
very much. Your own ****ing kind would rather live next door to
someone like me that to be saddled with having to deal with
inconsiderate azzholes like you day-in and day-out.

> The feline newsgroup is
> a group for people who love cats and want to talk about cat health and
> behavior in peace.
>

Me too. What behavior is offensive to you? I merely post my opinions.
If you choose to challenge my feelings, please don't count on me to
roll over and play dead. Because it ain't gonna happen. Dig...?


> If you find this offensive, then stick to reading and
> posting to your usual hate-mongering newsgroups.
>

If you find the posting style and content of others here to be
offensive, the please don't read OR respond to the ones you don't
like. But everyone has a right to their opinion on any one of the
subjects posted here. Almost all of my postings center around cats in
one way or the other. So if you DON'T LIKE IT, then you know what you
can do...!

> It is because of people
> like you that moderated newsgroups are created.
>

Yes... And they're not very popular either. ....'Let us control
content and censor the minds and words of others'! Real ****ing
healthy! Like who the hell are YOU to stifle my opinion? Nobody,
that's who. That's why you're ****ing in the ****ing wind.

> You are a worthless,
> heartless excuse for human being who is desperately in need of psychiatric
> care. I suggest you get some.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.



I have a cat. He is a healthy boy. He is a happy boy. He loves me. I
love him. If I allowed him to roam at-will, I wouldn't be a bit
surprised if he didn't come to his little food bowl that nite. Why not
bring a tom inside if he tends to wander and cause trouble? Because
you and people like you DON'T GIVE A **** about the feelings and
rights of others. Just like you don't care about my rights when it
comes to even participating in this group. I know my ideas are sound
and good. Because I have been quite successful with them in the real
world. Therefore, I feel that I have a fairly good handle on reality.
I doubt I can say the same for you. Sociopathic lunatic... that's all
you and the rest who think like you are.
You might want to write this in reverse on your ****ing forehead so
you will be reminded when you stand in front of the mirror each
morning... just so you won't forget... Get the **** outta my way
'cause IBen Getiner's coming thru...


IBen Getiner

IBen Getiner
April 2nd 07, 08:53 AM
On Apr 1, 4:00?pm, Nomen Nescio > wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> From: "bookie" >
>
> >> I'd lean towards f**king them up real bad with a baseball bat, telling them
> >> that they just fell down the stairs, and if they ever claim that anything
> >> else
> >> caused their injuries they will wind up in a shallow grave in the woods.
> >> Hey, it's worked wonders for "attitude adjustments" in the past and a good
> >> limp will serve as a reminder for the rest of their lives.
> >> Oh, and they've got a month to pay for the vet bills, also.
>
> >i agree with you there! except I would give them a week to pay up for
> >the vet's bill and if they go over that time then they have to pay
> >interest onthe amount owing, in fingers..
>
> I think you'd need to make it 2 weeks. The first week would be spent in
> the hospital.
>
> >character reform is not always possible,. some people just cannot be
> >reformed, particualrly if their behaviour is as a result of some brain
> >structure or activity dysfunction (ever read the case of Phineas
> >Gage?). In these cases you really can do nothing to teach them that
> >waht they have done is wrong and not to do it again, they are
> >incapable of learning that to hurt other people is bad and wrong liek
> >the rest of us, and so locking them up and keepign the m away from
> >innocent and vulnerable peolpe and animals is the only way
>
> >sorry for the tree-huggers and liberals out there who think that all
> >souls can be saved but it is true!
>
> Agreed!
> Funny, I kinda had you pegged as a "tree hugger and a liberal".
> My apologies.
>
> >true, only a rifle will leave some sort of indentation or mark onthe
> >bullet (comes fromthe groove on the inside of the barrel, or the
> >'bore' as it is known. sorry to sound leik a know-it-all but my dad
> >does rifle shooting, small bore in fact, as well as pistol shooting so
> >have had it explained to m several times)
>

Bull...****. They are twisted, yes. But not rifled. Just like a
shotgun. I know because I've had them since I was a kid... There may
in-fact be professional competition models available that tout a
corkscrew. But you aren't likely to find one in the hands of the
average Joe. This holds especially true concerning the one's who take
it on themselves to defend their own liberty, sanctity and the pursuit
of peace and tranquility. They know all too well the shrill glassy-
eyed cry of the liberal nut-job pet owner these days.

> I like women who understand firearms.
> My wife carries a .38 S&W and knows how to use it.
> As she likes to say, "A loaded gun is the ultimate in female empowerment".
> She can be a scary bitch, sometimes. :)
>


Bull**** again. Your typical female gun owner will pull a gun maybe,
but her instincts as a mother always stop her from taking a life. Even
if the price is her own. Consequently, most are disarmed by their own
assailants, and then have their own guns used against them. I've never
heard of ONE CASE where a woman used a firearm successfully in a self-
defense situation. Not one. They may be out there, but they're few and
far between. Maybe one of those estrogen-less women. I don't know..


> >maybe the police asked you for the bullet to make you think they were
> >going to be able to do something and put your mind at rest.
>

Yes. I agree here...

> I was actually wondering if we're talking about an "air rifle" as
> opposed to a "BB gun", here. Many people use the term interchangably.
> If it's an air rifle, it shoots those conical lead pellets and you can do
> a ballistics match on those since the rifling in the barrel will imprint
> in the lead.
> And it seemed like the injuries were awfully severe for the low power
> of most BB guns. I've still got the 45 yo BB gun that I had when I was a kid.
> You can watch the BB fly out of the barrel.... it moves so slow. Some air
> rifles can throw a pellet at near supersonic velocities.
>
> I do hope someone nails the *******s.
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: N/A
>


He/they were probably just defending their own rights, just like he/
they will always find a way to do. And as long as there are
irresponsible people who allow their cats to run amuck, you can count
on the fact that there will always be trouble. That's just common
sense.

IBen

IBen Getiner
April 2nd 07, 08:54 AM
On Apr 1, 7:12�pm, Charlie Wilkes >
wrote:
> On Sun, 01 Apr 2007 09:21:00 -0400, cindys wrote:
>
> > Please don't be offended Charlie, but I think you're being naive. It
> > seems that wife-abusers, child-beaters, mass murderers, almost
> > invariably have a history of hurting animals in their youth. I think
> > there is something desperately wrong with any person who (for no reason
> > at all) could deliberately shoot (at point-blank range) a defenseless
> > creature who was doing him no harm. I think these boys desperately need
> > counseling. This is not just teenaged boys running amok.
>
> I'm not offended. *I don't know who did this or what their motives might
> have been, and certainly I am not an expert on reforming aberrant
> behavior. *Maybe the right solution is what Nomen proposes, i.e., beat
> the culprit senseless and leave him crippled for life. *But anyone who
> sets out on such a course had better be prepared to handle the
> consequences, whatever they might be.
>
> Charlie

That's right... Keep walking the line, Charley..


IBen Getiner

Barry
April 2nd 07, 12:41 PM
On Apr 2, 1:02 am, "cindys" > wrote:
> "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:12:34 -0700, Barry wrote:
>
> >> On Apr 1, 6:48 pm, "bookie" > wrote: t to make
> >> song and dance about
> >>> (I can see the headline now "do you want your child educated by this
> >>> man who teaches his own kids to be gun-toting hooligans?"). The more
> >>> **** the ...
>
> >>> read more
>
> >> That's a vain persuit, bah
>
> >> **** them little asshole snots...
>
> >> she can kick their asses on the down low
>
> >> all you women are jackasses any way, you let your emotions rue
> >> everything
>
> And if someone shot Jupiter with a BB gun, how would you respond Barry?

I said **** them little asshole snots, and that they needed their
asses kicked
(and whatever else is fair like paying vet bills)

Far as Charlie, Charlie just shines a the light of reality on a
matter.
In reality, Sheelagh is only going to be able to get so much
punishment dispensed.
Only so much (is why I say they need their butts kicked)

but you say... (and you only bolster my joke comment) you ask me a
rhetorical question about my cat.

I THOUGHT YOU CATS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE REAL SMART

damn belly robbin thugs, laying around waiting on something to eat.

lol

YES YOU ARE, LAYING AROUND WAITING ON SOMETHING TO EAT

I don't blame ya

sheelagh
April 2nd 07, 12:45 PM
On 2 Apr, 01:33, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
> On Apr 1, 1:27?pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 1 Apr, 17:25, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> > oups.com...
>
> > > >> >They may yet be reformed, or even
> > > >> > reform themselves as they mature. The right kind of punishment for
> > > >> > such
> > > >> > individuals would be restitution of your expenses and community service
> > > >> > at a veterinary hospital.
>
> > > >> Personally, I think the right kind of punishment would be to pepper these
> > > >> boys with a few pellets, but that's obviously not going to happen,so
> > > >> restitution and some sort of comunity service is going to be the best the
> > > >> law can do (if the law is able to do anything at all, that is).
> > > >> Personally,
> > > >> I would not want these boys doing community service at a veterinray
> > > >> hospital
> > > >> where my animals were patients, however. I would be really afraid.
>
> > > > personally i do not think such community work would have any effect on
> > > > these little ****s whatsoever, i think they are most probably beyond
> > > > any sort of counselling or help and just need a damn good beating. You
> > > > cannot reason with some kids who do nto have the mental ability to
> > > > understand that what they do is wrong and who cannot understand
> > > > suffering in others (look up Theory of Mind, any child development
> > > > text book will refer to it, look up Piaget too) as they are incapable
> > > > of grasping the concept that other living creatures feel pain or
> > > > suffering or hurt as they do and that other living creatures deserve
> > > > respect and care as they do themselves. These people do not 'attend'
> > > > to the pain they cause in others they just 'attend' to the feeling of
> > > > enjoyment they themselves feel when they inflict pain on these other
> > > > ceratrures, does that make sense? that is someone with 'psychotic'
> > > > tendencies works and thiniks, (look up psychotic somewhere, preferably
> > > > a psychology textbook).
>
> > > I agree. Or they take pleasure in inflicting the pain.
>
> > > > Now a damn good beating WOULD work because the one thing these kids
> > > > woudl understand is that they temselves want to avoid feeling their
> > > > own pain and if NOT inflicting pain on innocent animals means that
> > > > they AVOID getting a painful beating, then they will refrain from
> > > > bhurting animals. This is a kind of CONDITIONING, called NEGATIVE
> > > > REINFORCEMENT heard of it? they learn to avoid doing the action which
> > > > woudl result in something unpleasant happening to them, fairly simple
> > > > really.
>
> > > I agree. It's unfortunate that the law won't handle it that way, and I doubt
> > > the parents will either. When you have kids like that, you generally have
> > > parents with the same sorts of attitudes. I can almost guarantee that the
> > > parents will defend their sons: "Oh, it was only my son having a little fun.
> > > It was only some cats, after all. Boys will be boys. You bleeding heart
> > > whacko animal rights loonies are making a big deal out of nothing." Kind of
> > > like the crap that comes out of Iben Gentner's mouth. (In fact, I wouldn't
> > > be surprised to learn that dad is out there himself with the BB gun shooting
> > > at the squirrels in his garden.) And once the judge tells dad how much money
> > > he owes the families of the victims, I can guarantee you that dad will go
> > > home and beat the cr*p out of the kids (and probably mom too) because now
> > > he's going to have to cough up hundreds of pounds to pay for the cats'
> > > medical bills. But, hey screw the cats.
> > > Best regards,
> > > ---Cindy S.
>
> > > > it would be lovely if they chose not to hurt animals out of a respect
> > > > for animals and life but with some of these kids that is never going
> > > > to be the casesoyou have to employ alternative methods of getting
> > > > what you want really
>
> > > > anyone who is confused as to what I mean by conditioning, think about
> > > > A Clockwork Orange and what the authorities did to Alex to sort him
> > > > out and rehabilitate him in the second half of the film
>
> > > > bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I have just received a call from the police to tell us that they have
> > the two boys involved with the incident have just been released from
> > custody. They have just been questioned under caution, with their
> > respective parents attending because you can't question a child over
> > here unless they are present- or a social worker if the parents are
> > unable to attend for any reason.
>
> > The good news is that they have confessed to all of the shootings &
> > have been charged with the offense & their parents have agreed to
> > foot
> > the bills,. But the bad news, is that they have accepted a caution.
>
> > In the UK when you accept a caution it is admitting guilt, but you
> > get
> > away with it without a true blemish on your record, and you don't
> > have
> > have to attend court.
> > I am sorely disappointed that is the case, because I was looking
> > forward to attending their hearing with my BB rifle over my
> > shoulder..after all, if they can do it & get away with it, why
> > wouldn't I?
>
> > Unfortunately, because they had unblemished records until this
> > incident, the police were willing to allow them to accept a caution
> > in
> > this instance.
> > However, the RSPCA have no such qualms about letting them off and
> > will
> > be bringing a private prosecution against them for animal cruelty, so
> > this is not the end of the matter thankfully.
>
> > The only other upside that I can think of presently is that we know
> > them, & their parents, and we know where they live too.
> > Interestingly, one of the boy's father's is head of the maths
> > department @ a school that we were allocated for our daughter this
> > coming September.( Until we screamed at the top of our lungs @ our
> > Member of Parliament, & asked why she didn't meet the criteria to
> > attend our local school-They gave us the place we deserved last week
> > I
> > love it when I'm right about something- who isn't?)
> > Going too far off thread there, sorry!
>
> > They were initially arrested under caution last night. Their homes
> > were search & they found the guns as well as the pellets that they
> > had
> > left. This was the reason for keeping the pellets BTW, I stand
> > corrected on that one, soz!
>
> > They were questioned, but they denied the shootings to start with. It
> > was the father that I mention who had a 5minute session with his son,
> > before recommending the interview, and admitted his part in the
> > shootings & noting the other child mas his partner in crime.
>
> > So Basically they got off Scott free so far, as far as I am
> > concerned;o(
> > Both boys are aged 14 & have been to see us as well as all of the
> > other families involved to apologize for what they did to our pets.
> > In
> > the case of the family who lost their cat, that amounts to Nothing!!
>
> > I'm sure Ross will meet them somewhere one dark night in a nice
> > remote
> > alley way;in fact I am certain of it!!
>
> > I am glad that they have agreed to pay costs incurred, & can only
> > hope
> > that the RSPCA bring a better case to court so that the bench do
> > decide to make them do community service @ the very least. I agree
> > with the suggestions put forward by you (but don't think I would get
> > away with the base ball bat theory, unfortunately)
> > I think it would be excellent to make them do a month at a vets
> > [email protected] least they would have to face some of the things that they
> > thought a laugh @ the time...
>
> > If the parents don't pay up, however, then it will become a matter
> > for
> > the court because they have signed a binding contract to say that
> > they
> > will pay each family 40 per week. If they default, then we go back
> > to
> > court.
> > I am quite certain that both families will be facing a great deal of
> > overtime from now on for the foreseeable future.
> > The rifles have been confiscated, & the Police wanted the pellets to
> > see if they matched up to the batch that they found.
> > I can only hope that the parents are as disgusted as I would be if I
> > found out that any child of mine had done something as hideous as
> > this
> > to other peoples cat's .
> > Quite disappointing really, but then again, we do have RSPCA case to
> > look forward to I suppose
> > S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Hahhh...!!!!!! You're a ****ing LIAR!! You're just trying to pull
> your sorry helpless, hapless ass out of the fire. That's all.
> Personally, I don't believe a WORD of it.
> In fact, the whole indecent was probably a staged mock-up. Just to
> appease some kind of sick 'need' that you have for attention and the
> sympathy of others.. Or maybe you hurt Ringo yourself. Like people
> with that Munchhousen syndrome do to their own kids. Anyway, when It
> makes the papers, POST IT. Otherwise, you're just a ****ing cheap, two-
> bit liar in my book.
>
> IBen Getiner
>
> IBen- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You sick pathetic excuse for a human.
And I will, but not for your benefit, ever...

bookie
April 2nd 07, 12:50 PM
On 2 Apr, 08:53, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
> On Apr 1, 4:00?pm, Nomen Nescio > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> > From: "bookie" >
>
> > >> I'd lean towards f**king them up real bad with a baseball bat, telling them
> > >> that they just fell down the stairs, and if they ever claim that anything
> > >> else
> > >> caused their injuries they will wind up in a shallow grave in the woods.
> > >> Hey, it's worked wonders for "attitude adjustments" in the past and a good
> > >> limp will serve as a reminder for the rest of their lives.
> > >> Oh, and they've got a month to pay for the vet bills, also.
>
> > >i agree with you there! except I would give them a week to pay up for
> > >the vet's bill and if they go over that time then they have to pay
> > >interest onthe amount owing, in fingers..
>
> > I think you'd need to make it 2 weeks. The first week would be spent in
> > the hospital.
>
> > >character reform is not always possible,. some people just cannot be
> > >reformed, particualrly if their behaviour is as a result of some brain
> > >structure or activity dysfunction (ever read the case of Phineas
> > >Gage?). In these cases you really can do nothing to teach them that
> > >waht they have done is wrong and not to do it again, they are
> > >incapable of learning that to hurt other people is bad and wrong liek
> > >the rest of us, and so locking them up and keepign the m away from
> > >innocent and vulnerable peolpe and animals is the only way
>
> > >sorry for the tree-huggers and liberals out there who think that all
> > >souls can be saved but it is true!
>
> > Agreed!
> > Funny, I kinda had you pegged as a "tree hugger and a liberal".
> > My apologies.
>
> > >true, only a rifle will leave some sort of indentation or mark onthe
> > >bullet (comes fromthe groove on the inside of the barrel, or the
> > >'bore' as it is known. sorry to sound leik a know-it-all but my dad
> > >does rifle shooting, small bore in fact, as well as pistol shooting so
> > >have had it explained to m several times)
>
> Bull...****. They are twisted, yes. But not rifled. Just like a
> shotgun. I know because I've had them since I was a kid... There may
> in-fact be professional competition models available that tout a
> corkscrew. But you aren't likely to find one in the hands of the
> average Joe. This holds especially true concerning the one's who take
> it on themselves to defend their own liberty, sanctity and the pursuit
> of peace and tranquility. They know all too well the shrill glassy-
> eyed cry of the liberal nut-job pet owner these days.
>
> > I like women who understand firearms.
> > My wife carries a .38 S&W and knows how to use it.
> > As she likes to say, "A loaded gun is the ultimate in female empowerment".
> > She can be a scary bitch, sometimes. :)
>
> Bull**** again. Your typical female gun owner will pull a gun maybe,
> but her instincts as a mother always stop her from taking a life. Even
> if the price is her own. Consequently, most are disarmed by their own
> assailants, and then have their own guns used against them. I've never
> heard of ONE CASE where a woman used a firearm successfully in a self-
> defense situation. Not one. They may be out there, but they're few and
> far between. Maybe one of those estrogen-less women. I don't know..
>
> > >maybe the police asked you for the bullet to make you think they were
> > >going to be able to do something and put your mind at rest.
>
> Yes. I agree here...
>
> > I was actually wondering if we're talking about an "air rifle" as
> > opposed to a "BB gun", here. Many people use the term interchangably.
> > If it's an air rifle, it shoots those conical lead pellets and you can do
> > a ballistics match on those since the rifling in the barrel will imprint
> > in the lead.
> > And it seemed like the injuries were awfully severe for the low power
> > of most BB guns. I've still got the 45 yo BB gun that I had when I was a kid.
> > You can watch the BB fly out of the barrel.... it moves so slow. Some air
> > rifles can throw a pellet at near supersonic velocities.
>
> > I do hope someone nails the *******s.
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: N/A
>
> He/they were probably just defending their own rights, just like he/
> they will always find a way to do. And as long as there are
> irresponsible people who allow their cats to run amuck, you can count
> on the fact that there will always be trouble. That's just common
> sense.
>
> IBen- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

actually to answer both posts in one, I dont; own any guns, and my dad
only owns ones for competition purposes and not to take pot shots at
small furry creatures. he does complain loudly abuot other cats inhis
back garden but he woudl never shoot at one, and he also tends to
leave food out for them (his last cat died last summer, Tegan, so he
buys food specially for visiting cats, how sad.) Small bore and full
bore rifle and pistol shooting is done on ranges and they shoot at
targets, for points, it si a sport, not some ****ed up way in which
rednecks take out the anger they have for being shagged by their own
mothers when they were young boys on small innocent creatures who
stray into their back yards, got it?

there si not the gun culture amongst normal people in the UK, we just
cannot go out and buy a gun as you do inthe US, that is illegal, and
not in our nature. There is however a problem with gangs and guns as
there seems to be everywhere, but this is not legal and is not
considered a 'good thing' by the general public.

also i would not carry a gun around with me in public anyway, i would
employ the ancient art of 'kicking my attacker in the testicles'
followed by 'running away fast' in order to protect myself.

anyway this is really off topic

bookie
April 2nd 07, 12:50 PM
On 2 Apr, 03:04, "Lis" > wrote:
> On Apr 1, 11:36 am, "bookie" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 1 Apr, 07:30, Nomen Nescio > wrote:
>
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> > > From: Charlie Wilkes >
>
> > > >However, I tend to think this was probably the
> > > >work of teenaged boys run amok with obnoxious impulses they don't
> > > >understand well enough to control.
>
> > > That's an awfully f**kin' sexist thing to say. Are you saying that teenaged girls
> > > are incapable of runing amok with obnoxious impulses. Women are the
> > > same as men. At least that's what "cybercat" and "-L." like to claim. :)
>
> > no,girls do not have the same high levels of testosteorone flowing
> > through their systems as teenage boys do and so do nto 'usually' have
> > anywhere near the same tyopes of violent tendencies that boys do.
> > Girls and boys are very different and i woudl be VERY surprised if it
> > was some girl gang who did this, they just would not (too busy hanging
> > aournd on street corners smoking cigarettes and trying to attract the
> > attention of local boys for a start)
>
> > > I'd lean towards f**king them up real bad with a baseball bat, telling them
> > > that they just fell down the stairs, and if they ever claim that anything else
> > > caused their injuries they will wind up in a shallow grave in the woods.
> > > Hey, it's worked wonders for "attitude adjustments" in the past and a good
> > > limp will serve as a reminder for the rest of their lives.
> > > Oh, and they've got a month to pay for the vet bills, also.
>
> > i agree with you there! except I would give them a week to pay up for
> > the vet's bill and if they go over that time then they have to pay
> > interest onthe amount owing, in fingers..
>
> > character reform is not always possible,. some people just cannot be
> > reformed, particualrly if their behaviour is as a result of some brain
> > structure or activity dysfunction (ever read the case of Phineas
> > Gage?). In these cases you really can do nothing to teach them that
> > waht they have done is wrong and not to do it again, they are
> > incapable of learning that to hurt other people is bad and wrong liek
> > the rest of us, and so locking them up and keepign the m away from
> > innocent and vulnerable peolpe and animals is the only way
>
> > sorry for the tree-huggers and liberals out there who think that all
> > souls can be saved but it is true!
>
> So, I'm reading along, nodding agreement with everything you're
> saying--and then I hit this "tree-huggers and liberals out there"
> crap. Have you stopped to consider the number of people on the Right-
> Thinking Conservative part of the political spectrum who'd regard YOU
> as a "tree-hugger and liberal" because you care so strongly about the
> mistreatment of animals?. And not just mouth-foamers like our friend
> Iben, but conservatives who can speak and write coherently and hold
> responsible jobs.
>
> Not everyone who votes differently than you do is a cartoon.
>
> <snip the rest, because crap like that means there's no need to read
> further>
>
> Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

i don;t hug trees

bookie
April 2nd 07, 12:53 PM
On 2 Apr, 06:02, "cindys" > wrote:
> "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:12:34 -0700, Barry wrote:
>
> >> On Apr 1, 6:48 pm, "bookie" > wrote: t to make
> >> song and dance about
> >>> (I can see the headline now "do you want your child educated by this
> >>> man who teaches his own kids to be gun-toting hooligans?"). The more
> >>> **** the ...
>
> >>> read more
>
> >> That's a vain persuit, bah
>
> >> **** them little asshole snots...
>
> >> she can kick their asses on the down low
>
> >> all you women are jackasses any way, you let your emotions rue
> >> everything
>
> And if someone shot Jupiter with a BB gun, how would you respond Barry?
>
>
>
> > Now, what in the world would make you say that, Barry? These fine people
> > merely have an elevated sense of justice, i.e., beating the crap out of
> > 14 year old kids and ruining the careers of their parents.
>
> I wasn't the one advocating ruining the parents' careers, but you really
> don't think these kids deserve a beating for what they did ? I don't know
> what's the law in England, but if they were adults and living in the USA,
> they could easily end up spending a year in jail for animal abuse.
> Yesterday, I was reading in our local paper about someone who had killed a
> pygmy goat in a very unpleasant way. The police are putting a lot of effort
> into finding the culprits. If they are found, I can guarantee they will be
> looking at jail time. People who abuse/kill other people often began their
> careers by tormenting small animals.
>
> We once had some acquaintances whose son first killed his goldfish, then
> killed his hamster and subsequently was abusive to the family dog. We saw
> the child jumping on the dog and hitting the dog. The father said to the
> kid: "Stop doing that because the dog might bite you." The father then went
> on to say that when they got the dog, he was such a nice dog, and he
> couldn't understand why the dog had been getting progressively nastier. On
> another occasion, we saw the same child using a huge branch to damage
> someone's car. Mutual friends would often say that the child was seriously
> deranged and well on his way to being a psychopath. The child obviously had
> some very serious mental issues, but the parents were treating this very
> lightly. It was clear that they considered animals expendable and didn't
> think their son had any problems.
>
> When you see your son has killed deliberately killed his fish and his
> hamster, you don't respond by getting him a dog on the basis that "the dog
> can fight back." I don't know who was worse, the kid or the parents. But
> both times I personally have known/witnessed a situation where a child was
> being abusive to an animal, there was a parent who was well aware of the
> behavior and didn't think it was a big deal.
>
> I'm sorry but people like this are disgusting, and I have absolutely zero
> sympathy for them. No, I won't go so far as to say that someone should shoot
> a BB gun into the kid's heart, like he did to poor Wizard (the cat who was
> killed), but if someone decided to give these boys a well-deserved beating,
> I certainly wouldn't be losing any sleep over it.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

i agree with everything!!!

Barry
April 2nd 07, 02:03 PM
On Apr 2, 7:53 am, "bookie" > wrote:

> i agree with everything!!!

so let's do this thing, let's burn their ass

although, I agree... the adults are proving their real mind set
towards animals here.
the punishment can't go any further than the conscience of the
judge... right?

"oh it's just a cat, or.. oh hell, they were just being boys.. heh
heh"

in America plenty of cops and civil authorities are dummies...
prejudiced, ignorant and so forth.. and the common people suffer all
sorts of injustices.

like sheelagh said, karma will take up any slack the law leaves on.

cindys
April 2nd 07, 02:56 PM
"Barry" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Apr 2, 7:53 am, "bookie" > wrote:
>
>> i agree with everything!!!
>
> so let's do this thing, let's burn their ass
>
> although, I agree... the adults are proving their real mind set
> towards animals here.
> the punishment can't go any further than the conscience of the
> judge... right?

Agreed. A number of people on this group are incensed about the events, and
posting things like "I wish someone would beat the cr*p out of those boys,"
is a way for many of us to vent our anger and frustration. We all know that
corporal punishment is not part of the justice system (at least not in the
UK or in the USA). And we also know that in any court proceeding, the
personal views of the judge are going to play a role. And we also know that
there are laws for dealing with various crimes and the judge needs to go
according to the law.

>
> "oh it's just a cat, or.. oh hell, they were just being boys.. heh
> heh"
>
> in America plenty of cops and civil authorities are dummies...
> prejudiced, ignorant and so forth.. and the common people suffer all
> sorts of injustices.

Agreed.
>
> like sheelagh said, karma will take up any slack the law leaves on.

Yes. What goes around comes around.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

sheelagh
April 2nd 07, 04:23 PM
On 2 Apr, 06:02, "cindys" > wrote:
> "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:12:34 -0700, Barry wrote:
>
> >> On Apr 1, 6:48 pm, "bookie" > wrote: t to make
> >> song and dance about
> >>> (I can see the headline now "do you want your child educated by this
> >>> man who teaches his own kids to be gun-toting hooligans?"). The more
> >>> **** the ...
>
> >>> read more
>
> >> That's a vain persuit, bah
>
> >> **** them little asshole snots...
>
> >> she can kick their asses on the down low
>
> >> all you women are jackasses any way, you let your emotions rue
> >> everything
>
> And if someone shot Jupiter with a BB gun, how would you respond Barry?

He would do the same as any other cat- caring person would..either
beart the living day light out of them, or if he already has form for
the same thing, then pay someone else to do the deed on his behalf. He
certainly wouldn't take it lying down with pleasure...
>
>
> > Now, what in the world would make you say that, Barry? These fine people
> > merely have an elevated sense of justice, i.e., beating the crap out of
> > 14 year old kids and ruining the careers of their parents.
>
> I wasn't the one advocating ruining the parents' careers, but you really
> don't think these kids deserve a beating for what they did ? I don't know
> what's the law in England, but if they were adults and living in the USA,
> they could easily end up spending a year in jail for animal abuse.
> Yesterday, I was reading in our local paper about someone who had killed a
> pygmy goat in a very unpleasant way. The police are putting a lot of effort
> into finding the culprits. If they are found, I can guarantee they will be
> looking at jail time. People who abuse/kill other people often began their
> careers by tormenting small animals.

Now personally, I would have no such qualms at all about ruining his
career. But to understand my reasons, I would have to tell you what I
know to help appreciate why I don't have any problems doing so.

Recently, all of the 10-11year old's parents in our area, we given
notification about where their children will be attending school this
coming September. In our case, Tilly, our daughter(10yrs old), was
given a placement @ a school 12 miles away, when we have a perfectly
good school in our village. One of my main concerns about this
placement was due to the fact that the this school( St Peters), has a
terrible reputation, & I was terrified that that Tilly wouldn't be
able to cope with the school and the students there. Tilly is an
innocent child & not at all street savvy in the ways some 10 year old
are. It was my worst nightmare come true-If she wasn't being pimped
out by the time she was 12, she would probably be on crack, cocaine or
heroin; or possibly all 3!!

I spent weeks campaigning to ensure that she wasn't placed there, &
quite by chance, My mother called me to tell me a story.
A lady who lives next door but one to her, has a granddaughter that
attends the same school too, where purely by chance, the father of one
of the boys involved in the shooting incident is one of the maths
teaches
..
A couple of months ago, the 11-12 year old were in a swimming lesson,
when the maths teacher came in to to have a word with the PE teacher,
so she told the kids to get out of the pool & to go and change for the
next lesson. Having left the pool, 2boys thought it might be funny if
they threw one of the girls into the pool, as young boys do..
(girls tend to be bitchy, but they don't very often become entangled
with this sort of incident)
... the particular girl that they were going for almost got as far as
the changing room, before they grabbed her, dragged her back to the
pool & dunked her head under the water until she stopped
struggling..Realising what had happened, the 2 boys got out of the
pool & only by sheer chance, the teachers returned to the room & found
her floating head down in the water. She had to dive in and
resuscitate her, whilst the maths teacher called the emergency
services....!!!
The boys denied the story to start with...Can you believe that..????

You might find it interesting to know that one of the 2 boys involved
in this incident, was the son of the maths teacher I mentioned, who
told his son to confess to the shooting of the cats I told you about.
They have 2 son's, one of them is 12 & the other is 14..

The girl did recover, & most fortuitously, her father is a police
sergeant. He placed a complaint to the school, then asked colleagues
if they would look into the incident, & as a result, charges have been
brought, & the younger son is facing a charge of ABH (Actual Bodily
Harm.) Personally, I would have pushed for attempted murder, but there
you are, that is the crime system for you over here..!

Because of that very instance, I managed to get my daughter's
placement changed to our local school which was over subscribed..

> We once had some acquaintances whose son first killed his goldfish, then
> killed his hamster and subsequently was abusive to the family dog. We saw
> the child jumping on the dog and hitting the dog. The father said to the
> kid: "Stop doing that because the dog might bite you." The father then went
> on to say that when they got the dog, he was such a nice dog, and he
> couldn't understand why the dog had been getting progressively nastier. On
> another occasion, we saw the same child using a huge branch to damage
> some one's car. Mutual friends would often say that the child was seriously
> deranged and well on his way to being a psychopath. The child obviously had
> some very serious mental issues, but the parents were treating this very
> lightly. It was clear that they considered animals expendable and didn't
> think their son had any problems.
>
> When you see your son has killed deliberately killed his fish and his
> hamster, you don't respond by getting him a dog on the basis that "the dog
> can fight back." I don't know who was worse, the kid or the parents. But
> both times I personally have known/witnessed a situation where a child was
> being abusive to an animal, there was a parent who was well aware of the
> behavior and didn't think it was a big deal.

This is precisely my point too. I don't know how your laws work in the
States, but over here, no other incident's are taken into
consideration, & I think that they should be.

The reason for this is so that when making consideration, the jury are
not allowed to know what other charges have been brought in case it
prejiduces the case.
If one son is shooting cats, & the other son is accused of trying to
drown a child, then I think that the jury has a right to know about
these incidents before making considerations. I don't believe that the
matters are unrelated at all. There is a fundamental problem with this
family, & they all need therapy...


> I'm sorry but people like this are disgusting, and I have absolutely zero
> sympathy for them. No, I won't go so far as to say that someone should shoot
> a BB gun into the kid's heart, like he did to poor Wizard (the cat who was
> killed), but if someone decided to give these boys a well-deserved beating,
> I certainly wouldn't be losing any sleep over it.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I agree with you Cindy!

Knowing this, perhaps you can understand our scepticism last night
when they came to apologise about the shooting of Ringo.
As you point out, in Wizards case, it was utterly futile.
With regard to compensation, I believe the family are having to pay
ALL OF US 40 per week, so when you consider that there are 5 people
affected, that is a lot of overtime in mothers case, because father is
salaried. Wizards slaves have been offered 250, but I think believe
they are not accepting the money and bringing a private prosecution
against the familly.
So there are 4 of us receiving a total of 160 per week from them..

(close to $280) It may not seem like much to some of you, but to us,
it is a lot of money)
And they still have to face Wizards family regarding compensation too.

And the local grapevine tells us that the family have had to borrow
the money to ensure that they don't default with payment.. because if
they do, it is not just a court appearance that they face, I think it
is the fathers job @ risk too!!

What school wants it known that the maths teachers kids are hoodlums.
The child has since been excluded from the school & is now attending
some scheme that the government sets up for misfits, so that when they
leave school, @ least they will be able to write their own names..&
the government have fulfilled their duty to educate them too.
NO ONE Knows what a handicap better than I do.....
S;o)

sheelagh
April 2nd 07, 04:30 PM
On 2 Apr, 01:21, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
> On Apr 1, 9:21 am, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > snip>
>
> > > Yes. I completely understand your anger. ShootingRingowas a cruel and
> > > gratuitous act that resulted in a great deal of suffering for the animal
> > > as well as grief and expense for your family. There is no excuse, and
> > > the only mitigating factor is that he is recovering well from what could
> > > have been a fatal attack. However, I tend to think this was probably the
> > > work of teenaged boys run amok with obnoxious impulses they don't
> > > understand well enough to control.
>
> > Please don't be offended Charlie, but I think you're being naive.
>
> Oh... IBen's a kook but Charlie here... He's just 'naive'... Uh,
> huhhh..
>
> > It seems
> > that wife-abusers, child-beaters, mass murderers, almost invariably have a
> > history of hurting animals in their youth.
>
> ALL young boys go thru a stage of sadism. All. It's only the ones with
> parents like YOU who end up being serial killers. Because you don't
> see it for the temporal thing that it is. Instead, you make your kid
> feel 'special' about himself. I'm not saying that it's right for a
> young boy to do that. Only that all boys go thru it. Just like most go
> thru a stealing phase. And almost all outgrow that as well. Are you
> going to tell me that most of THEM are going to live a life of crime?
> I myself could steal the stool out from under the 7/11 clerk when I
> was 15, yet I have been a steadily employed taxpayer for longer than
> you've probably been alive. It's parents like YOU who have screw up
> the heads of our youth today... with all of your paranoid 'modern
> sensibilities' and the like. Hell, we rarely IF EVER had the problem
> of violence that today's youth seem to emulate and live for. And I
> take that to be a direct reflection on obsessive nail-biting weird-O's
> like YOU.

I suppose you want a medal for that little performance too, do you?
7/11 was depraved, & for you to mock it makes you look worse than you
already do, if that is possible
> IBen Getiner

Lis
April 2nd 07, 05:04 PM
On Apr 2, 7:50 am, "bookie" > wrote:
> On 2 Apr, 03:04, "Lis" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 1, 11:36 am, "bookie" > wrote:
>
> > > On 1 Apr, 07:30, Nomen Nescio > wrote:
>
> > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> > > > From: Charlie Wilkes >
>
> > > > >However, I tend to think this was probably the
> > > > >work of teenaged boys run amok with obnoxious impulses they don't
> > > > >understand well enough to control.
>
> > > > That's an awfully f**kin' sexist thing to say. Are you saying that teenaged girls
> > > > are incapable of runing amok with obnoxious impulses. Women are the
> > > > same as men. At least that's what "cybercat" and "-L." like to claim. :)
>
> > > no,girls do not have the same high levels of testosteorone flowing
> > > through their systems as teenage boys do and so do nto 'usually' have
> > > anywhere near the same tyopes of violent tendencies that boys do.
> > > Girls and boys are very different and i woudl be VERY surprised if it
> > > was some girl gang who did this, they just would not (too busy hanging
> > > aournd on street corners smoking cigarettes and trying to attract the
> > > attention of local boys for a start)
>
> > > > I'd lean towards f**king them up real bad with a baseball bat, telling them
> > > > that they just fell down the stairs, and if they ever claim that anything else
> > > > caused their injuries they will wind up in a shallow grave in the woods.
> > > > Hey, it's worked wonders for "attitude adjustments" in the past and a good
> > > > limp will serve as a reminder for the rest of their lives.
> > > > Oh, and they've got a month to pay for the vet bills, also.
>
> > > i agree with you there! except I would give them a week to pay up for
> > > the vet's bill and if they go over that time then they have to pay
> > > interest onthe amount owing, in fingers..
>
> > > character reform is not always possible,. some people just cannot be
> > > reformed, particualrly if their behaviour is as a result of some brain
> > > structure or activity dysfunction (ever read the case of Phineas
> > > Gage?). In these cases you really can do nothing to teach them that
> > > waht they have done is wrong and not to do it again, they are
> > > incapable of learning that to hurt other people is bad and wrong liek
> > > the rest of us, and so locking them up and keepign the m away from
> > > innocent and vulnerable peolpe and animals is the only way
>
> > > sorry for the tree-huggers and liberals out there who think that all
> > > souls can be saved but it is true!
>
> > So, I'm reading along, nodding agreement with everything you're
> > saying--and then I hit this "tree-huggers and liberals out there"
> > crap. Have you stopped to consider the number of people on the Right-
> > Thinking Conservative part of the political spectrum who'd regard YOU
> > as a "tree-hugger and liberal" because you care so strongly about the
> > mistreatment of animals?. And not just mouth-foamers like our friend
> > Iben, but conservatives who can speak and write coherently and hold
> > responsible jobs.
>
> > Not everyone who votes differently than you do is a cartoon.
>
> > <snip the rest, because crap like that means there's no need to read
> > further>
>
> > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> i don;t hug trees- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Neither do I, sweetums; neither do the vast majority of people to whom
the epithet "tree-hugger" is routinely applied be people who think
that global warming and animal cruelty legislation are loony-left
conspiracies.

Lis

bookie
April 2nd 07, 05:20 PM
On 2 Apr, 16:23, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 2 Apr, 06:02, "cindys" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > > On Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:12:34 -0700, Barry wrote:
>
> > >> On Apr 1, 6:48 pm, "bookie" > wrote: t to make
> > >> song and dance about
> > >>> (I can see the headline now "do you want your child educated by this
> > >>> man who teaches his own kids to be gun-toting hooligans?"). The more
> > >>> **** the ...
>
> > >>> read more
>
> > >> That's a vain persuit, bah
>
> > >> **** them little asshole snots...
>
> > >> she can kick their asses on the down low
>
> > >> all you women are jackasses any way, you let your emotions rue
> > >> everything
>
> > And if someone shot Jupiter with a BB gun, how would you respond Barry?
>
> He would do the same as any other cat- caring person would..either
> beart the living day light out of them, or if he already has form for
> the same thing, then pay someone else to do the deed on his behalf. He
> certainly wouldn't take it lying down with pleasure...
>
>
>
> > > Now, what in the world would make you say that, Barry? These fine people
> > > merely have an elevated sense of justice, i.e., beating the crap out of
> > > 14 year old kids and ruining the careers of their parents.
>
> > I wasn't the one advocating ruining the parents' careers, but you really
> > don't think these kids deserve a beating for what they did ? I don't know
> > what's the law in England, but if they were adults and living in the USA,
> > they could easily end up spending a year in jail for animal abuse.
> > Yesterday, I was reading in our local paper about someone who had killed a
> > pygmy goat in a very unpleasant way. The police are putting a lot of effort
> > into finding the culprits. If they are found, I can guarantee they will be
> > looking at jail time. People who abuse/kill other people often began their
> > careers by tormenting small animals.
>
> Now personally, I would have no such qualms at all about ruining his
> career. But to understand my reasons, I would have to tell you what I
> know to help appreciate why I don't have any problems doing so.
>
> Recently, all of the 10-11year old's parents in our area, we given
> notification about where their children will be attending school this
> coming September. In our case, Tilly, our daughter(10yrs old), was
> given a placement @ a school 12 miles away, when we have a perfectly
> good school in our village. One of my main concerns about this
> placement was due to the fact that the this school( St Peters), has a
> terrible reputation, & I was terrified that that Tilly wouldn't be
> able to cope with the school and the students there. Tilly is an
> innocent child & not at all street savvy in the ways some 10 year old
> are. It was my worst nightmare come true-If she wasn't being pimped
> out by the time she was 12, she would probably be on crack, cocaine or
> heroin; or possibly all 3!!
>
> I spent weeks campaigning to ensure that she wasn't placed there, &
> quite by chance, My mother called me to tell me a story.
> A lady who lives next door but one to her, has a granddaughter that
> attends the same school too, where purely by chance, the father of one
> of the boys involved in the shooting incident is one of the maths
> teaches
> .
> A couple of months ago, the 11-12 year old were in a swimming lesson,
> when the maths teacher came in to to have a word with the PE teacher,
> so she told the kids to get out of the pool & to go and change for the
> next lesson. Having left the pool, 2boys thought it might be funny if
> they threw one of the girls into the pool, as young boys do..
> (girls tend to be bitchy, but they don't very often become entangled
> with this sort of incident)
> .. the particular girl that they were going for almost got as far as
> the changing room, before they grabbed her, dragged her back to the
> pool & dunked her head under the water until she stopped
> struggling..Realising what had happened, the 2 boys got out of the
> pool & only by sheer chance, the teachers returned to the room & found
> her floating head down in the water. She had to dive in and
> resuscitate her, whilst the maths teacher called the emergency
> services....!!!
> The boys denied the story to start with...Can you believe that..????
>
> You might find it interesting to know that one of the 2 boys involved
> in this incident, was the son of the maths teacher I mentioned, who
> told his son to confess to the shooting of the cats I told you about.
> They have 2 son's, one of them is 12 & the other is 14..
>
> The girl did recover, & most fortuitously, her father is a police
> sergeant. He placed a complaint to the school, then asked colleagues
> if they would look into the incident, & as a result, charges have been
> brought, & the younger son is facing a charge of ABH (Actual Bodily
> Harm.) Personally, I would have pushed for attempted murder, but there
> you are, that is the crime system for you over here..!
>
> Because of that very instance, I managed to get my daughter's
> placement changed to our local school which was over subscribed..
>
>
>
>
>
> > We once had some acquaintances whose son first killed his goldfish, then
> > killed his hamster and subsequently was abusive to the family dog. We saw
> > the child jumping on the dog and hitting the dog. The father said to the
> > kid: "Stop doing that because the dog might bite you." The father then went
> > on to say that when they got the dog, he was such a nice dog, and he
> > couldn't understand why the dog had been getting progressively nastier. On
> > another occasion, we saw the same child using a huge branch to damage
> > some one's car. Mutual friends would often say that the child was seriously
> > deranged and well on his way to being a psychopath. The child obviously had
> > some very serious mental issues, but the parents were treating this very
> > lightly. It was clear that they considered animals expendable and didn't
> > think their son had any problems.
>
> > When you see your son has killed deliberately killed his fish and his
> > hamster, you don't respond by getting him a dog on the basis that "the dog
> > can fight back." I don't know who was worse, the kid or the parents. But
> > both times I personally have known/witnessed a situation where a child was
> > being abusive to an animal, there was a parent who was well aware of the
> > behavior and didn't think it was a big deal.
>
> This is precisely my point too. I don't know how your laws work in the
> States, but over here, no other incident's are taken into
> consideration, & I think that they should be.
>
> The reason for this is so that when making consideration, the jury are
> not allowed to know what other charges have been brought in case it
> prejiduces the case.
> If one son is shooting cats, & the other son is accused of trying to
> drown a child, then I think that the jury has a right to know about
> these incidents before making considerations. I don't believe that the
> matters are unrelated at all. There is a fundamental problem with this
> family, & they all need therapy...
>
> > I'm sorry but people like this are disgusting, and I have absolutely zero
> > sympathy for them. No, I won't go so far as to say that someone should shoot
> > a BB gun into the kid's heart, like he did to poor Wizard (the cat who was
> > killed), but if someone decided to give these boys a well-deserved beating,
> > I certainly wouldn't be losing any sleep over it.
> > Best regards,
> > ---Cindy S.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I agree with you Cindy!
>
> Knowing this, perhaps you can understand our scepticism last night
> when they came to apologise about the shooting of Ringo.
> As you point out, in Wizards case, it was utterly futile.
> With regard to compensation, I believe the family are having to pay
> ALL OF US 40 per week, so when you consider that there are 5 people
> affected, that is a lot of overtime in mothers case, because father is
> salaried. Wizards slaves have been offered 250, but I think believe
> they are not accepting the money and bringing a private prosecution
> against the familly.
> So there are 4 of us receiving a total of 160 per week from them..
>
> (close to $280) It may not seem like much to some of you, but to us,
> it is a lot of money)
> And they still have to face Wizards family regarding compensation too.
>
> And the local grapevine tells us that the family have had to borrow
> the money to ensure that they don't default with payment.. because if
> they do, it is not just a court appearance that they face, I think it
> is the fathers job @ risk too!!
>
> What school wants it known that the maths teachers kids are hoodlums.
> The child has since been excluded from the school & is now attending
> some scheme that the government sets up for misfits, so that when they
> leave school, @ least they will be able to write their own names..&
> the government have fulfilled their duty to educate them too.
> NO ONE Knows what a handicap better than I do.....
> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

having done my Teaching Practise inthe cambridgeshire area (as i did
my PGCE, or teaching degree, at cambridge uni) i am well aware of the
terrible and well-deserved reputation of st peters school in
huntingdon, to call it a ******** is not going far enough. Friend of
mine was an art teacher there but has since left, she described it as
hell on earth, and one of the other trainee teachers on my course with
me was assigned to go do a term's teaching opractise there and after
one day he refused to go again and demanded to be moved to another
school! it is in the middle of one of the worst estates inthe country
for drugs and violent crime, so i am not surprised at either the
behaviour of the kids there that you have described sheelagh, or that
you refused to send your kid there, i would too.

anyway, I am glad that wizard's family (that sithe act who died yes?)
have turned down the compensation and are going for the jugular and
bringing a private prosecution, good for them, i woudl do the same. OK
it may not bring wizard back but it may do something which woudl
ensure that these little hooligans were (a) properly punished and
learnt the effects of their actions perhaps and (b) held up as some
kind of example to other kids inthe area who may be contemplating the
same behaviour and as a result did not do the same thing ie go
shooting at people's pets. Also it would be some kind of justice for
poor wizard.

from the despicable behaviour you describe that these boys have
displayed intheir short lives so far it is clear that they both have
some serious problmes understanding the difference between right and
wrong and also understanding the suffering that they cause others
around them by their actions. For this reason any judge with half a
brain shoudl realise that it is necessary to remove these boys from
their parent's custody (who obviously cannot bring their kids up
properly) and detain them in some sort of secure unit, maybe provide
them with some sort of therapy or counselling, in order to keep them
away from innocent people and animals.

Locking people up after a crime is done for 2 main reason; firstly as
a punishment to deny them the right of freedom, and secondly to keep
them away from the public in order to ensure the public's safety, and
in the case of these 2 boys i think that the second reason would be
enough for a custodial sentence as the parents obviously have no
control over their kids behaviour.

regardless of the previous incident in the swimming pool, i think the
kids need a damn good beating anyway if only to teach them some sort
of discipline (see previous post about conditioning and negative
reinforcement). These boys may never learn to feel empathy for their
victims suffering, in fact i doubt they have the intellectual or
mental capacity to do so, but they may learn to avoid such
undesirable and vicious behaviour if it also meant that they avoided
getting a damn good beating in return.

if anyone ever starts whinging that a priovate prozsecution will
damage these boys and hurt their chances of future careers and jobs
etc then tough ****! these kids are damaged enough and they obviously
didn't give a **** abotu how they might have hurt that girl who they
held under the pool and what the lack of oxygen may have done to her
brain and her chances of a good career and a future so why the ****
should anyoen care about them? To me, their behaviour has basically
meant that they have given up their chance to have a good future and
job etc. I really do not see why their 'rights' to a good future and
life should be given any consideration when they gave no consideration
to either the life and health of this poor girl in the swimming pool
or that of these poor cats, especially wizard, who suffered because of
their terrible actions.

**** 'em, they did something terrible and they should pay the
consequences.
and yes sheelagh i still think you shoudl go to the papers and tell
the story, may get som support and donations to the RSPCA's case and
legal costs, and the added publicity may shame the parents into
actually doing something about their vicious kids

still angry about the whole thing, still think hanging woud be far too
good for them too
Bookie

sheelagh
April 2nd 07, 05:40 PM
On 1 Apr, 23:48, "bookie" > wrote:
> On 1 Apr, 18:27, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 1 Apr, 17:25, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> > oups.com...
>
> > > >> >They may yet be reformed, or even
> > > >> > reform themselves as they mature. The right kind of punishment for
> > > >> > such
> > > >> > individuals would be restitution of your expenses and community service
> > > >> > at a veterinary hospital.
>
> > > >> Personally, I think the right kind of punishment would be to pepper these
> > > >> boys with a few pellets, but that's obviously not going to happen,so
> > > >> restitution and some sort of comunity service is going to be the best the
> > > >> law can do (if the law is able to do anything at all, that is).
> > > >> Personally,
> > > >> I would not want these boys doing community service at a veterinary
> > > >> hospital
> > > >> where my animals were patients, however. I would be really afraid.
>
> > > > personally i do not think such community work would have any effect on
> > > > these little ****s whatsoever, i think they are most probably beyond
> > > > any sort of counselling or help and just need a damn good beating. You
> > > > cannot reason with some kids who do not have the mental ability to
> > > > understand that what they do is wrong and who cannot understand
> > > > suffering in others (look up Theory of Mind, any child development
> > > > text book will refer to it, look up Piaget too) as they are incapable
> > > > of grasping the concept that other living creatures feel pain or
> > > > suffering or hurt as they do and that other living creatures deserve
> > > > respect and care as they do themselves. These people do not 'attend'
> > > > to the pain they cause in others they just 'attend' to the feeling of
> > > > enjoyment they themselves feel when they inflict pain on these other
> > > > ceratrures, does that make sense? that is someone with 'psychotic'
> > > > tendencies works and thiniks, (look up psychotic somewhere, preferably
> > > > a psychology textbook).
>
> > > I agree. Or they take pleasure in inflicting the pain.
>
> > > > Now a damn good beating WOULD work because the one thing these kids
> > > > woudl understand is that they temselves want to avoid feeling their
> > > > own pain and if NOT inflicting pain on innocent animals means that
> > > > they AVOID getting a painful beating, then they will refrain from
> > > > bhurting animals. This is a kind of CONDITIONING, called NEGATIVE
> > > > REINFORCEMENT heard of it? they learn to avoid doing the action which
> > > > woudl result in something unpleasant happening to them, fairly simple
> > > > really.
>
> > > I agree. It's unfortunate that the law won't handle it that way, and I doubt
> > > the parents will either. When you have kids like that, you generally have
> > > parents with the same sorts of attitudes. I can almost guarantee that the
> > > parents will defend their sons: "Oh, it was only my son having a little fun.
> > > It was only some cats, after all. Boys will be boys. You bleeding heart
> > > whacko animal rights loonies are making a big deal out of nothing." Kind of
> > > like the crap that comes out of Iben Gentner's mouth. (In fact, I wouldn't
> > > be surprised to learn that dad is out there himself with the BB gun shooting
> > > at the squirrels in his garden.) And once the judge tells dad how much money
> > > he owes the families of the victims, I can guarantee you that dad will go
> > > home and beat the cr*p out of the kids (and probably mom too) because now
> > > he's going to have to cough up hundreds of pounds to pay for the cats'
> > > medical bills. But, hey screw the cats.
> > > Best regards,
> > > ---Cindy S.
>
> > > > it would be lovely if they chose not to hurt animals out of a respect
> > > > for animals and life but with some of these kids that is never going
> > > > to be the casesoyou have to employ alternative methods of getting
> > > > what you want really
>
> > > > anyone who is confused as to what I mean by conditioning, think about
> > > > A Clockwork Orange and what the authorities did to Alex to sort him
> > > > out and rehabilitate him in the second half of the film
>
> > > > bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I have just received a call from the police to tell us that they have
> > the two boys involved with the incident have just been released from
> > custody. They have just been questioned under caution, with their
> > respective parents attending because you can't question a child over
> > here unless they are present- or a social worker if the parents are
> > unable to attend for any reason.
>
> > The good news is that they have confessed to all of the shootings &
> > have been charged with the offense & their parents have agreed to
> > foot
> > the bills,. But the bad news, is that they have accepted a caution.
>
> > In the UK when you accept a caution it is admitting guilt, but you
> > get
> > away with it without a true blemish on your record, and you don't
> > have
> > have to attend court.
> > I am sorely disappointed that is the case, because I was looking
> > forward to attending their hearing with my BB rifle over my
> > shoulder..after all, if they can do it & get away with it, why
> > wouldn't I?
>
> > Unfortunately, because they had unblemished records until this
> > incident, the police were willing to allow them to accept a caution
> > in
> > this instance.
> > However, the RSPCA have no such qualms about letting them off and
> > will
> > be bringing a private prosecution against them for animal cruelty, so
> > this is not the end of the matter thankfully.
>
> > The only other upside that I can think of presently is that we know
> > them, & their parents, and we know where they live too.
> > Interestingly, one of the boy's father's is head of the maths
> > department @ a school that we were allocated for our daughter this
> > coming September.( Until we screamed at the top of our lungs @ our
> > Member of Parliament, & asked why she didn't meet the criteria to
> > attend our local school-They gave us the place we deserved last week
> > I
> > love it when I'm right about something- who isn't?)
> > Going too far off thread there, sorry!
>
> > They were initially arrested under caution last night. Their homes
> > were search & they found the guns as well as the pellets that they
> > had
> > left. This was the reason for keeping the pellets BTW, I stand
> > corrected on that one, soz!
>
> > They were questioned, but they denied the shootings to start with. It
> > was the father that I mention who had a 5minute session with his son,
> > before recommending the interview, and admitted his part in the
> > shootings & noting the other child mas his partner in crime.
>
> >So Basically they got off Scott free so far, as far as I am
> > concerned;o(
> > Both boys are aged 14 & have been to see us as well as all of the
> > other families involved to apologize for what they did to our pets.
> > In
> > the case of the family who lost their cat, that amounts to Nothing!!
>
> > I'm sure Ross will meet them somewhere one dark night in a nice
> > remote
> > alley way;in fact I am certain of it!!
>
> > I am glad that they have agreed to pay costs incurred, & can only
> > hope
> > that the RSPCA bring a better case to courtsothat the bench do
> > decide to make them do community service @ the very least. I agree
> > with the suggestions put forward by you (but don't think I would get
> > away with the base ball bat theory, unfortunately)
> > I think it would be excellent to make them do a month at a vets
> > [email protected] least they would have to face some of the things that they
> > thought a laugh @ the time...
>
> > If the parents don't pay up, however, then it will become a matter
> > for
> > the court because they have signed a binding contract to say that
> > they
> > will pay each family 40 per week. If they default, then we go back
> > to
> > court.
> > I am quite certain that both families will be facing a great deal of
> > overtime from now on for the foreseeable future.
> > The rifles have been confiscated, & the Police wanted the pellets to
> > see if they matched up to the batch that they found.
> > I can only hope that the parents are as disgusted as I would be if I
> > found out that any child of mine had done something as hideous as
> > this
> > to other peoples cat's .
> > Quite disappointing really, but then again, we do have RSPCA case to
> > look forward to I suppose
> > S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> very quickly, but i will write a long winded response, later on i
> promise, EXCELLENT!!!
> liek you sheelagh i am not satisfied with the police letting the
> little ****s go with just a caution, that is as good as doing nothing
> in my book, especially as one of the cats died because the actions of
> these mindless little ****s.

We are all supporting Wizards Mummy & Daddy with their private
prosecution against the boys involved.
I thought that they had accepted the offer of 250 in compensation
last night, but after speaking to her this morning, they have decided
to take the case further themselves. I wish them all the luck in the
world, & I have also offered to come to court with them if they need
to as part of their case against them. In fact I intend to go
regardless, just to see justice brought against them by one of us, in
Wizards memory!!

If I had qualified for legal aid regarding this matter, I would have
done the same. But I am not rich enough to do it off my own back, so
we had to settle for what was on offer.
It ****es me off that I have to accept the offer, but after
consideration, it is obvious that it is the best we can hope for under
the circumstances, so I took it.

> if the parents do try to come round and persuade you to get the RSPCA
> to drop the case )which i doubt they would go that is interfering
> with a witness and strictly illegal)_you must stand your ground. I
> don't give a **** if their futures are affected and it might have an
> effect on which uni they go to (which it won';t cos universities don't
> look at that anyway) blah blah blah, that si nothing compared to the
> horrific injuriesringowill ahve to live with no forever, or compared
> to cat who will not be enjoying any sort of life at all from now on.

Bookie, rest assured that the moment one of them put a foot on my door
mat, I would have them removed by the police for intimidation. Frankly
I thought that the offer was a joke when the Police told us that we
would get 40 per week until the entire bill was paid in full ( the
final tot up came to 846 in our case)..I am more than lucky that I
have a vet who was willing to accept terms of payment in our case.
However, if I had offered the vets 40 per week, I am certain that
they would have laughed all the way back to the Police station for non
payment of bills!!!
We have to pay 100
per week!!!!
It wrankles me that they got away so lightly.. but as others have
pointed out, given the stupid law in this country, It was the best I
could hope for, because I can't afford to bring my own case with
barristers charging over 500 per hour.
Ridiculous, but there we are;o(

> Sod them, they should have got a far harsher punishment than what they
> have got, they got off very lightly i think, and I also think that
> making the parents pay just 40 a week is not enough, they should have
> to pay it all in full within a week just as you and the other families
> probably had to do yourselves to get your cats treated.

I wish the same thing & count ourselves lucky that we have a vet that
was understanding enough to accept terms of payment, otherwise he
would still be there and we would be paying higher charges every day
until we could afford to bring him home..

> go to the papers and make a fuss, the fact that one of the kids
> fathers is head of the maths dept at some local school is good as it
> will be something the local rag may want to make song and dance about
> (I can see the headline now "do you want your child educated by this
> man who teaches his own kids to be gun-toting hooligans?"). The more
> **** the ...
Oh Bookie, believe me, I have. If you read my other thread regarding
this family, you will see that they are indeed a problem family. The
father is hanging on to his job like a silk thread. It wouldn't take
too much to turn the tide of events.
I am not the only person who has gone to the press with the story
either. as you already know, there were 3 other families who were
affected too. All of the cats except one of them, are all home now.
The remaining cat had to go back to surgery because it has gone into
renal failure. I think that the outlook is fairly bleak. I don't know
that family very well, & I don't like to pester them at a time like
this. They have enough on their plate to think about without me
telling them to contact the local rag(press) about their cat really...

The Family might look acceptable on the surface of things, but they
are in deep trouble and floundering for air. It isn't just the child
who shot the cats that is in trouble, their other child is in even
worse trouble. I just didn't associate the two last night. It wasn't
until this morning whilst talking to my mother about the incident,
that she connected the two of them for me..
I have sent the story to two of our local papers, & also to a daily
one as well, headed, DO YOU WANT YOUR CHILD TO BE TAUGHT BY THIS MAN
Point out every low down detail that I could get my hands on. If it
does make, it in there, rest assured that I will send you all a link
to it.
The school has a reputation for teaching miss fits & problematic
children, yet his own son has been excluded from there for trying to
drown a girl. How proud he must be of his offspring. Disgusting when
you think about it...!!
The one thing that we have to look forward to is the prosecution
brought by the RSPCA. I am certain that they will not be lenient on
them because what they did was terrible.
I hope that the new animal rights bill is rushed through as soon as
possible.. I think if more people were sent to prison for events like
this, then it might serve as a very good deterrent.
And ANYONE who doesn't agree with me ( the tree huggers..) & feels
sorry for the parents, obviously doesn't have any children.
I would be humiliated beyond reason if I found out that a child of
mine was capable of doing this sort of thing- In fact I would feel a
need to go straight into therapy & put my children in local care for
failing them...
I can't & won't forgive them.
It would be unseemly for me to happen to go out with my base ball bat
and walk up the village with it ( apart from the fact that EVERYONE
would know why I was...)..
But that doesn't include my sons who have a very long boring holiday
ahead of them in the summer. I would imagine that they will be playing
quite a bit of Base Ball on the School field actually, so it wouldn't
be unusual or wrong for them to have that bat with them on a fairly
regular basis.

Short of keeping their sons @ home all summer, I wouldn't be at all
surprised if I found out, that under provocation, Ross & Jack (16 & 13
yr olds) became involved in an altercation between these lads and
themselves. As it would be a fist offence, I would imagine they would
get a rap on the knuckles for it, as long as they didn't go too far.
It would be ironic if they got a worse penalty than the original
perpetrators, wouldn't it?
Personally, I wouldn't advocate it,.. I would recommend a nice cricket
ball in a sock for this job... much easier to loose on the way home if
you see what I mean....
> read more - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
S;o)

Matthew
April 2nd 07, 05:48 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...
On 1 Apr, 23:48, "bookie" > wrote:
> On 1 Apr, 18:27, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 1 Apr, 17:25, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> > oups.com...
>
> > > >> >They may yet be reformed, or even
> > > >> > reform themselves as they mature. The right kind of punishment
> > > >> > for
> > > >> > such
> > > >> > individuals would be restitution of your expenses and community
> > > >> > service
> > > >> > at a veterinary hospital.
>
> > > >> Personally, I think the right kind of punishment would be to pepper
> > > >> these
> > > >> boys with a few pellets, but that's obviously not going to
> > > >> happen,so
> > > >> restitution and some sort of comunity service is going to be the
> > > >> best the
> > > >> law can do (if the law is able to do anything at all, that is).
> > > >> Personally,
> > > >> I would not want these boys doing community service at a veterinary
> > > >> hospital
> > > >> where my animals were patients, however. I would be really afraid.
>
> > > > personally i do not think such community work would have any effect
> > > > on
> > > > these little ****s whatsoever, i think they are most probably beyond
> > > > any sort of counselling or help and just need a damn good beating.
> > > > You
> > > > cannot reason with some kids who do not have the mental ability to
> > > > understand that what they do is wrong and who cannot understand
> > > > suffering in others (look up Theory of Mind, any child development
> > > > text book will refer to it, look up Piaget too) as they are
> > > > incapable
> > > > of grasping the concept that other living creatures feel pain or
> > > > suffering or hurt as they do and that other living creatures deserve
> > > > respect and care as they do themselves. These people do not 'attend'
> > > > to the pain they cause in others they just 'attend' to the feeling
> > > > of
> > > > enjoyment they themselves feel when they inflict pain on these other
> > > > ceratrures, does that make sense? that is someone with 'psychotic'
> > > > tendencies works and thiniks, (look up psychotic somewhere,
> > > > preferably
> > > > a psychology textbook).
>
> > > I agree. Or they take pleasure in inflicting the pain.
>
> > > > Now a damn good beating WOULD work because the one thing these kids
> > > > woudl understand is that they temselves want to avoid feeling their
> > > > own pain and if NOT inflicting pain on innocent animals means that
> > > > they AVOID getting a painful beating, then they will refrain from
> > > > bhurting animals. This is a kind of CONDITIONING, called NEGATIVE
> > > > REINFORCEMENT heard of it? they learn to avoid doing the action
> > > > which
> > > > woudl result in something unpleasant happening to them, fairly
> > > > simple
> > > > really.
>
> > > I agree. It's unfortunate that the law won't handle it that way, and I
> > > doubt
> > > the parents will either. When you have kids like that, you generally
> > > have
> > > parents with the same sorts of attitudes. I can almost guarantee that
> > > the
> > > parents will defend their sons: "Oh, it was only my son having a
> > > little fun.
> > > It was only some cats, after all. Boys will be boys. You bleeding
> > > heart
> > > whacko animal rights loonies are making a big deal out of nothing."
> > > Kind of
> > > like the crap that comes out of Iben Gentner's mouth. (In fact, I
> > > wouldn't
> > > be surprised to learn that dad is out there himself with the BB gun
> > > shooting
> > > at the squirrels in his garden.) And once the judge tells dad how much
> > > money
> > > he owes the families of the victims, I can guarantee you that dad will
> > > go
> > > home and beat the cr*p out of the kids (and probably mom too) because
> > > now
> > > he's going to have to cough up hundreds of pounds to pay for the cats'
> > > medical bills. But, hey screw the cats.
> > > Best regards,
> > > ---Cindy S.
>
> > > > it would be lovely if they chose not to hurt animals out of a
> > > > respect
> > > > for animals and life but with some of these kids that is never going
> > > > to be the casesoyou have to employ alternative methods of getting
> > > > what you want really
>
> > > > anyone who is confused as to what I mean by conditioning, think
> > > > about
> > > > A Clockwork Orange and what the authorities did to Alex to sort him
> > > > out and rehabilitate him in the second half of the film
>
> > > > bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I have just received a call from the police to tell us that they have
> > the two boys involved with the incident have just been released from
> > custody. They have just been questioned under caution, with their
> > respective parents attending because you can't question a child over
> > here unless they are present- or a social worker if the parents are
> > unable to attend for any reason.
>
> > The good news is that they have confessed to all of the shootings &
> > have been charged with the offense & their parents have agreed to
> > foot
> > the bills,. But the bad news, is that they have accepted a caution.
>
> > In the UK when you accept a caution it is admitting guilt, but you
> > get
> > away with it without a true blemish on your record, and you don't
> > have
> > have to attend court.
> > I am sorely disappointed that is the case, because I was looking
> > forward to attending their hearing with my BB rifle over my
> > shoulder..after all, if they can do it & get away with it, why
> > wouldn't I?
>
> > Unfortunately, because they had unblemished records until this
> > incident, the police were willing to allow them to accept a caution
> > in
> > this instance.
> > However, the RSPCA have no such qualms about letting them off and
> > will
> > be bringing a private prosecution against them for animal cruelty, so
> > this is not the end of the matter thankfully.
>
> > The only other upside that I can think of presently is that we know
> > them, & their parents, and we know where they live too.
> > Interestingly, one of the boy's father's is head of the maths
> > department @ a school that we were allocated for our daughter this
> > coming September.( Until we screamed at the top of our lungs @ our
> > Member of Parliament, & asked why she didn't meet the criteria to
> > attend our local school-They gave us the place we deserved last week
> > I
> > love it when I'm right about something- who isn't?)
> > Going too far off thread there, sorry!
>
> > They were initially arrested under caution last night. Their homes
> > were search & they found the guns as well as the pellets that they
> > had
> > left. This was the reason for keeping the pellets BTW, I stand
> > corrected on that one, soz!
>
> > They were questioned, but they denied the shootings to start with. It
> > was the father that I mention who had a 5minute session with his son,
> > before recommending the interview, and admitted his part in the
> > shootings & noting the other child mas his partner in crime.
>
> >So Basically they got off Scott free so far, as far as I am
> > concerned;o(
> > Both boys are aged 14 & have been to see us as well as all of the
> > other families involved to apologize for what they did to our pets.
> > In
> > the case of the family who lost their cat, that amounts to Nothing!!
>
> > I'm sure Ross will meet them somewhere one dark night in a nice
> > remote
> > alley way;in fact I am certain of it!!
>
> > I am glad that they have agreed to pay costs incurred, & can only
> > hope
> > that the RSPCA bring a better case to courtsothat the bench do
> > decide to make them do community service @ the very least. I agree
> > with the suggestions put forward by you (but don't think I would get
> > away with the base ball bat theory, unfortunately)
> > I think it would be excellent to make them do a month at a vets
> > [email protected] least they would have to face some of the things that they
> > thought a laugh @ the time...
>
> > If the parents don't pay up, however, then it will become a matter
> > for
> > the court because they have signed a binding contract to say that
> > they
> > will pay each family 40 per week. If they default, then we go back
> > to
> > court.
> > I am quite certain that both families will be facing a great deal of
> > overtime from now on for the foreseeable future.
> > The rifles have been confiscated, & the Police wanted the pellets to
> > see if they matched up to the batch that they found.
> > I can only hope that the parents are as disgusted as I would be if I
> > found out that any child of mine had done something as hideous as
> > this
> > to other peoples cat's .
> > Quite disappointing really, but then again, we do have RSPCA case to
> > look forward to I suppose
> > S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> very quickly, but i will write a long winded response, later on i
> promise, EXCELLENT!!!
> liek you sheelagh i am not satisfied with the police letting the
> little ****s go with just a caution, that is as good as doing nothing
> in my book, especially as one of the cats died because the actions of
> these mindless little ****s.

We are all supporting Wizards Mummy & Daddy with their private
prosecution against the boys involved.
I thought that they had accepted the offer of 250 in compensation
last night, but after speaking to her this morning, they have decided
to take the case further themselves. I wish them all the luck in the
world, & I have also offered to come to court with them if they need
to as part of their case against them. In fact I intend to go
regardless, just to see justice brought against them by one of us, in
Wizards memory!!

If I had qualified for legal aid regarding this matter, I would have
done the same. But I am not rich enough to do it off my own back, so
we had to settle for what was on offer.
It ****es me off that I have to accept the offer, but after
consideration, it is obvious that it is the best we can hope for under
the circumstances, so I took it.

> if the parents do try to come round and persuade you to get the RSPCA
> to drop the case )which i doubt they would go that is interfering
> with a witness and strictly illegal)_you must stand your ground. I
> don't give a **** if their futures are affected and it might have an
> effect on which uni they go to (which it won';t cos universities don't
> look at that anyway) blah blah blah, that si nothing compared to the
> horrific injuriesringowill ahve to live with no forever, or compared
> to cat who will not be enjoying any sort of life at all from now on.

Bookie, rest assured that the moment one of them put a foot on my door
mat, I would have them removed by the police for intimidation. Frankly
I thought that the offer was a joke when the Police told us that we
would get 40 per week until the entire bill was paid in full ( the
final tot up came to 846 in our case)..I am more than lucky that I
have a vet who was willing to accept terms of payment in our case.
However, if I had offered the vets 40 per week, I am certain that
they would have laughed all the way back to the Police station for non
payment of bills!!!


Ha put your foot in my door Mr. 40 caliber smith and wesson will be in
your face informing you where you would like to be buried and what god or
gods do you need to pray to. This is after you get a face full of police
issue pepper spray



We have to pay 100
per week!!!!
It wrankles me that they got away so lightly.. but as others have
pointed out, given the stupid law in this country, It was the best I
could hope for, because I can't afford to bring my own case with
barristers charging over 500 per hour.
Ridiculous, but there we are;o(

> Sod them, they should have got a far harsher punishment than what they
> have got, they got off very lightly i think, and I also think that
> making the parents pay just 40 a week is not enough, they should have
> to pay it all in full within a week just as you and the other families
> probably had to do yourselves to get your cats treated.

I wish the same thing & count ourselves lucky that we have a vet that
was understanding enough to accept terms of payment, otherwise he
would still be there and we would be paying higher charges every day
until we could afford to bring him home..

> go to the papers and make a fuss, the fact that one of the kids
> fathers is head of the maths dept at some local school is good as it
> will be something the local rag may want to make song and dance about
> (I can see the headline now "do you want your child educated by this
> man who teaches his own kids to be gun-toting hooligans?"). The more
> **** the ...
Oh Bookie, believe me, I have. If you read my other thread regarding
this family, you will see that they are indeed a problem family. The
father is hanging on to his job like a silk thread. It wouldn't take
too much to turn the tide of events.
I am not the only person who has gone to the press with the story
either. as you already know, there were 3 other families who were
affected too. All of the cats except one of them, are all home now.
The remaining cat had to go back to surgery because it has gone into
renal failure. I think that the outlook is fairly bleak. I don't know
that family very well, & I don't like to pester them at a time like
this. They have enough on their plate to think about without me
telling them to contact the local rag(press) about their cat really...

The Family might look acceptable on the surface of things, but they
are in deep trouble and floundering for air. It isn't just the child
who shot the cats that is in trouble, their other child is in even
worse trouble. I just didn't associate the two last night. It wasn't
until this morning whilst talking to my mother about the incident,
that she connected the two of them for me..
I have sent the story to two of our local papers, & also to a daily
one as well, headed, DO YOU WANT YOUR CHILD TO BE TAUGHT BY THIS MAN
Point out every low down detail that I could get my hands on. If it
does make, it in there, rest assured that I will send you all a link
to it.
The school has a reputation for teaching miss fits & problematic
children, yet his own son has been excluded from there for trying to
drown a girl. How proud he must be of his offspring. Disgusting when
you think about it...!!
The one thing that we have to look forward to is the prosecution
brought by the RSPCA. I am certain that they will not be lenient on
them because what they did was terrible.
I hope that the new animal rights bill is rushed through as soon as
possible.. I think if more people were sent to prison for events like
this, then it might serve as a very good deterrent.
And ANYONE who doesn't agree with me ( the tree huggers..) & feels
sorry for the parents, obviously doesn't have any children.
I would be humiliated beyond reason if I found out that a child of
mine was capable of doing this sort of thing- In fact I would feel a
need to go straight into therapy & put my children in local care for
failing them...
I can't & won't forgive them.
It would be unseemly for me to happen to go out with my base ball bat
and walk up the village with it ( apart from the fact that EVERYONE
would know why I was...)..
But that doesn't include my sons who have a very long boring holiday
ahead of them in the summer. I would imagine that they will be playing
quite a bit of Base Ball on the School field actually, so it wouldn't
be unusual or wrong for them to have that bat with them on a fairly
regular basis.

Short of keeping their sons @ home all summer, I wouldn't be at all
surprised if I found out, that under provocation, Ross & Jack (16 & 13
yr olds) became involved in an altercation between these lads and
themselves. As it would be a fist offence, I would imagine they would
get a rap on the knuckles for it, as long as they didn't go too far.
It would be ironic if they got a worse penalty than the original
perpetrators, wouldn't it?
Personally, I wouldn't advocate it,.. I would recommend a nice cricket
ball in a sock for this job... much easier to loose on the way home if
you see what I mean....
> read more - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
S;o)

sheelagh
April 2nd 07, 06:30 PM
On 2 Apr, 17:20, "bookie" > wrote:
> On 2 Apr, 16:23, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > On 2 Apr, 06:02, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> > ...
>
> > > > On Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:12:34 -0700, Barry wrote:
>
> > > >> On Apr 1, 6:48 pm, "bookie" > wrote: t to make
> > > >> song and dance about
> > > >>> (I can see the headline now "do you want your child educated by this
> > > >>> man who teaches his own kids to be gun-toting hooligans?"). The more
> > > >>> **** the ...
>
> > > >>> read more
>
> > > >> That's a vain persuit, bah
>
> > > >> **** them little asshole snots...
>
> > > >> she can kick their asses on the down low
>
> > > >> all you women are jackasses any way, you let your emotions rue
> > > >> everything
>
> > > And if someone shot Jupiter with a BB gun, how would you respond Barry?
>
> > He would do the same as any other cat- caring person would..either
> > beart the living day light out of them, or if he already has form for
> > the same thing, then pay someone else to do the deed on his behalf. He
> > certainly wouldn't take it lying down with pleasure...
>
> > > > Now, what in the world would make you say that, Barry? These fine people
> > > > merely have an elevated sense of justice, i.e., beating the crap out of
> > > > 14 year old kids and ruining the careers of their parents.
>
> > > I wasn't the one advocating ruining the parents' careers, but you really
> > > don't think these kids deserve a beating for what they did ? I don't know
> > > what's the law in England, but if they were adults and living in the USA,
> > > they could easily end up spending a year in jail for animal abuse.
> > > Yesterday, I was reading in our local paper about someone who had killed a
> > > pygmy goat in a very unpleasant way. The police are putting a lot of effort
> > > into finding the culprits. If they are found, I can guarantee they will be
> > > looking at jail time. People who abuse/kill other people often began their
> > > careers by tormenting small animals.
>
> > Now personally, I would have no such qualms at all about ruining his
> > career. But to understand my reasons, I would have to tell you what I
> > know to help appreciate why I don't have any problems doing so.
>
> > Recently, all of the 10-11year old's parents in our area, we given
> > notification about where their children will be attending school this
> > coming September. In our case, Tilly, our daughter(10yrs old), was
> > given a placement @ a school 12 miles away, when we have a perfectly
> > good school in our village. One of my main concerns about this
> > placement was due to the fact that the this school( St Peters), has a
> > terrible reputation, & I was terrified that that Tilly wouldn't be
> > able to cope with the school and the students there. Tilly is an
> > innocent child & not at all street savvy in the ways some 10 year old
> > are. It was my worst nightmare come true-If she wasn't being pimped
> > out by the time she was 12, she would probably be on crack, cocaine or
> > heroin; or possibly all 3!!
>
> > I spent weeks campaigning to ensure that she wasn't placed there, &
> > quite by chance, My mother called me to tell me a story.
> > A lady who lives next door but one to her, has a granddaughter that
> > attends the same school too, where purely by chance, the father of one
> > of the boys involved in the shooting incident is one of the maths
> > teaches
> > .
> > A couple of months ago, the 11-12 year old were in a swimming lesson,
> > when the maths teacher came in to to have a word with the PE teacher,
> > so she told the kids to get out of the pool & to go and change for the
> > next lesson. Having left the pool, 2boys thought it might be funny if
> > they threw one of the girls into the pool, as young boys do..
> > (girls tend to be bitchy, but they don't very often become entangled
> > with this sort of incident)
> > .. the particular girl that they were going for almost got as far as
> > the changing room, before they grabbed her, dragged her back to the
> > pool & dunked her head under the water until she stopped
> > struggling..Realising what had happened, the 2 boys got out of the
> > pool & only by sheer chance, the teachers returned to the room & found
> > her floating head down in the water. She had to dive in and
> > resuscitate her, whilst the maths teacher called the emergency
> > services....!!!
> > The boys denied the story to start with...Can you believe that..????
>
> > You might find it interesting to know that one of the 2 boys involved
> > in this incident, was the son of the maths teacher I mentioned, who
> > told his son to confess to the shooting of the cats I told you about.
> > They have 2 son's, one of them is 12 & the other is 14..
>
> > The girl did recover, & most fortuitously, her father is a police
> > sergeant. He placed a complaint to the school, then asked colleagues
> > if they would look into the incident, & as a result, charges have been
> > brought, & the younger son is facing a charge of ABH (Actual Bodily
> > Harm.) Personally, I would have pushed for attempted murder, but there
> > you are, that is the crime system for you over here..!
>
> > Because of that very instance, I managed to get my daughter's
> > placement changed to our local school which was over subscribed..
>
> > > We once had some acquaintances whose son first killed his goldfish, then
> > > killed his hamster and subsequently was abusive to the family dog. We saw
> > > the child jumping on the dog and hitting the dog. The father said to the
> > > kid: "Stop doing that because the dog might bite you." The father then went
> > > on to say that when they got the dog, he was such a nice dog, and he
> > > couldn't understand why the dog had been getting progressively nastier. On
> > > another occasion, we saw the same child using a huge branch to damage
> > > some one's car. Mutual friends would often say that the child was seriously
> > > deranged and well on his way to being a psychopath. The child obviously had
> > > some very serious mental issues, but the parents were treating this very
> > > lightly. It was clear that they considered animals expendable and didn't
> > > think their son had any problems.
>
> > > When you see your son has killed deliberately killed his fish and his
> > > hamster, you don't respond by getting him a dog on the basis that "the dog
> > > can fight back." I don't know who was worse, the kid or the parents. But
> > > both times I personally have known/witnessed a situation where a child was
> > > being abusive to an animal, there was a parent who was well aware of the
> > > behavior and didn't think it was a big deal.
>
> > This is precisely my point too. I don't know how your laws work in the
> > States, but over here, no other incident's are taken into
> > consideration, & I think that they should be.
>
> > The reason for this is so that when making consideration, the jury are
> > not allowed to know what other charges have been brought in case it
> > prejiduces the case.
> > If one son is shooting cats, & the other son is accused of trying to
> > drown a child, then I think that the jury has a right to know about
> > these incidents before making considerations. I don't believe that the
> > matters are unrelated at all. There is a fundamental problem with this
> > family, & they all need therapy...
>
> > > I'm sorry but people like this are disgusting, and I have absolutely zero
> > > sympathy for them. No, I won't go so far as to say that someone should shoot
> > > a BB gun into the kid's heart, like he did to poor Wizard (the cat who was
> > > killed), but if someone decided to give these boys a well-deserved beating,
> > > I certainly wouldn't be losing any sleep over it.
> > > Best regards,
> > > ---Cindy S.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I agree with you Cindy!
>
> > Knowing this, perhaps you can understand our scepticism last night
> > when they came to apologise about the shooting of Ringo.
> > As you point out, in Wizards case, it was utterly futile.
> > With regard to compensation, I believe the family are having to pay
> > ALL OF US 40 per week, so when you consider that there are 5 people
> > affected, that is a lot of overtime in mothers case, because father is
> > salaried. Wizards slaves have been offered 250, but I think believe
> > they are not accepting the money and bringing a private prosecution
> > against the familly.
> > So there are 4 of us receiving a total of 160 per week from them..
>
> > (close to $280) It may not seem like much to some of you, but to us,
> > it is a lot of money)
> > And they still have to face Wizards family regarding compensation too.
>
> > And the local grapevine tells us that the family have had to borrow
> > the money to ensure that they don't default with payment.. because if
> > they do, it is not just a court appearance that they face, I think it
> > is the fathers job @ risk too!!
>
> > What school wants it known that the maths teachers kids are hoodlums.
> > The child has since been excluded from the school & is now attending
> > some scheme that the government sets up for misfits, so that when they
> > leave school, @ least they will be able to write their own names..&
> > the government have fulfilled their duty to educate them too.
> > NO ONE Knows what a handicap better than I do.....
> > S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> having done my Teaching Practise inthe cambridgeshire area (as i did
> my PGCE, or teaching degree, at cambridge uni) i am well aware of the
> terrible and well-deserved reputation of st peters school in
> huntingdon, to call it a ******** is not going far enough. Friend of
> mine was an art teacher there but has since left, she described it as
> hell on earth, and one of the other trainee teachers on my course with
> me was assigned to go do a term's teaching opractise there and after
> one day he refused to go again and demanded to be moved to another
> school! it is in the middle of one of the worst estates inthe country
> for drugs and violent crime, so i am not surprised at either the
> behaviour of the kids there that you have described sheelagh, or that
> you refused to send your kid there, i would too.
>
> anyway, I am glad that wizard's family (that sithe act who died yes?)
> have turned down the compensation and are going for the jugular and
> bringing a private prosecution, good for them, i woudl do the same. OK
> it may not bring wizard back but it may do something which woudl
> ensure that these little hooligans were (a) properly punished and
> learnt the effects of their actions perhaps and (b) held up as some
> kind of example to other kids inthe area who may be contemplating the
> same behaviour and as a result did not do the same thing ie go
> shooting at people's pets. Also it would be some kind of justice for
> poor wizard.
>
> from the despicable behaviour you describe that these boys have
> displayed intheir short lives so far it is clear that they both have
> some serious problmes understanding the difference between right and
> wrong and also understanding the suffering that they cause others
> around them by their actions. For this reason any judge with half a
> brain shoudl realise that it is necessary to remove these boys from
> their parent's custody (who obviously cannot bring their kids up
> properly) and detain them in some sort of secure unit, maybe provide
> them with some sort of therapy or counselling, in order to keep them
> away from innocent people and animals.
>
> Locking people up after a crime is done for 2 main reason; firstly as
> a punishment to deny them the right of freedom, and secondly to keep
> them away from the public in order to ensure the public's safety, and
> in the case of these 2 boys i think that the second reason would be
> enough for a custodial sentence as the parents obviously have no
> control over their kids behaviour.
>
> regardless of the previous incident in the swimming pool, i think the
> kids need a damn good beating anyway if only to teach them some sort
> of discipline (see previous post about conditioning and negative
> reinforcement). These boys may never learn to feel empathy for their
> victims suffering, in fact i doubt they have the intellectual or
> mental capacity to do so, but they may learn to avoid such
> undesirable and vicious behaviour if it also meant that they avoided
> getting a damn good beating in return.
>
> if anyone ever starts whinging that a priovate prozsecution will
> damage these boys and hurt their chances of future careers and jobs
> etc then tough ****! these kids are damaged enough and they obviously
> didn't give a **** abotu how they might have hurt that girl who they
> held under the pool and what the lack of oxygen may have done to her
> brain and her chances of a good career and a future so why the ****
> should anyoen care about them? To me, their behaviour has basically
> meant that they have given up their chance to have a good future and
> job etc. I really do not see why their 'rights' to a good future and
> life should be given any consideration when they gave no consideration
> to either the life and health of this poor girl in the swimming pool
> or that of these poor cats, especially wizard, who suffered because of
> their terrible actions.
>
> **** 'em, they did something terrible and they should pay the
> consequences.
> and yes sheelagh i still think you shoudl go to the papers and tell
> the story, may get som support and donations to the RSPCA's case and
> legal costs, and the added publicity may shame the parents into
> actually doing something about their vicious kids
>
> still angry about the whole thing, still think hanging woud be far too
> good for them too
> Bookie

The estate you refer to is still there with the same reputation as
ever. The Oxmoore Estate in name of it.
There are 2 schools in Huntingdon, one is called St Peters, & the
other one is Hinchinbrooke School.
Any parent who has a care for their child tries to get them into
Hinchinbrooke, our goes out of catchment area to a school such as our
own local one Sawtry Community College, which is very highly
oversubscribed from north and south of the village.. because it has
excellent results and holds to a very rigid no bullying policy & a no
trouble policy either..
which is why I was so angry @ the very thought if having to send her
there. Legally, I was obliged to unless I could find an alternative
school to accept her, or I was capable of teaching her @ home myself.
I did consider a catholic school in Peterborough, but it was a last
resort ....
(which was fast becoming a serious option at the time I might add).
I don't blame your friend at all. It is the school from hell.
Katie, our eldest daughter/child, was educated at Sawtry Community
College, & is just finishing her degree @ Leicester University, then
going on to do her masters @ Warwick, so If any of our kids don't do
well academically, It is because they didn't try hard enough, not
because of any fault on the staff's behalf.
Katie taught ME to read...
I used to feel ashamed about it, but the more time that passes, the
less concerned I feel. Rather I am proud that she did so well in
retrospect. I am very proud of her now. To be accepted for her masters
@ only 21, is a very considerable achievement.

I thought you might know it, lol!! ( St Peters)

Yes, wizard was the cat that was found dead at the scene & I will do
anything that I possibly can to be of service to the family should
they need me to. In fact I was thinking of attending both trials
anyway for the sheer hell of it & out of interest just to see how the
justice system functions in these instances of child offending.
I agree with every word that you say regarding the children themselves
being into local care, because they must have been failed somewhere
down the line to even consider either of the offense that I related to
you.
I wonder what would have happend if the child's father wasn't a police
officer too.
I felt that attempted murder was far more realistic considering the
gravity of the incident. In fact I have no idea why it wasn't the
charge against the child, but then again, I hardly know anything about
the law.. so it is not surprising....

Not sure if you read the other thread, but there is a possible second
cat death in the offing..
I don't know the family terribly well, but I have heard that their cat
has had to go back into surgery care because his renal function has
become compromised- I feel guilty that I don't even know the cats
name, but I will try and find out what he is called. I hate to think
what their bill will be like because I am aware that he was hurt in a
far worse way than Ringo was. Really , the bill is moot, because it is
the cats welfare that comes paramount ( but a serious consideration
when you don't have the funds available to treat them.)
I would also hate to hear that a point had been reached where they
stopped treatment for the sake of the cost that was incurred either.
That really would be terrible, but understandable if you simply don't
have the means available.

I think that you are right about the campaigning for the RSPCA- If
there was anyone that the family might be able to turn to for help
with funding, it would be them. So If there is anything that we can do
to raise awareness for them, I would be up for it & help there if I am
able to. I don't like to go round door banging, so at the moment I am
getting info from wizards mummy who knows them a little better than I
do.
If I hear any more, I will let you know about it.
If no other justice is served the right side of the law, then I
honestly do think/believe that the boys themselves will fall foul of
someone who won't be as forgiving as the father of the child in the
drowning incident, or us with our cats, eventually...
S;o)

PS:
Good to hear from you and have my thoughts confirmed regarding cats
and the school. I was nearly pulling my hair out at the very thought
of sending her there.
she ( Tilly) wouldn't have been able to cope in that environment

sheelagh
April 2nd 07, 06:48 PM
On 2 Apr, 17:48, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
> On 1 Apr, 23:48, "bookie" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 1 Apr, 18:27, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > On 1 Apr, 17:25, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > > "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> > > oups.com...
>
> > > > >> >They may yet be reformed, or even
> > > > >> > reform themselves as they mature. The right kind of punishment
> > > > >> > for
> > > > >> > such
> > > > >> > individuals would be restitution of your expenses and community
> > > > >> > service
> > > > >> > at a veterinary hospital.
>
> > > > >> Personally, I think the right kind of punishment would be to pepper
> > > > >> these
> > > > >> boys with a few pellets, but that's obviously not going to
> > > > >> happen,so
> > > > >> restitution and some sort of comunity service is going to be the
> > > > >> best the
> > > > >> law can do (if the law is able to do anything at all, that is).
> > > > >> Personally,
> > > > >> I would not want these boys doing community service at a veterinary
> > > > >> hospital
> > > > >> where my animals were patients, however. I would be really afraid.
>
> > > > > personally i do not think such community work would have any effect
> > > > > on
> > > > > these little ****s whatsoever, i think they are most probably beyond
> > > > > any sort of counselling or help and just need a damn good beating.
> > > > > You
> > > > > cannot reason with some kids who do not have the mental ability to
> > > > > understand that what they do is wrong and who cannot understand
> > > > > suffering in others (look up Theory of Mind, any child development
> > > > > text book will refer to it, look up Piaget too) as they are
> > > > > incapable
> > > > > of grasping the concept that other living creatures feel pain or
> > > > > suffering or hurt as they do and that other living creatures deserve
> > > > > respect and care as they do themselves. These people do not 'attend'
> > > > > to the pain they cause in others they just 'attend' to the feeling
> > > > > of
> > > > > enjoyment they themselves feel when they inflict pain on these other
> > > > > ceratrures, does that make sense? that is someone with 'psychotic'
> > > > > tendencies works and thiniks, (look up psychotic somewhere,
> > > > > preferably
> > > > > a psychology textbook).
>
> > > > I agree. Or they take pleasure in inflicting the pain.
>
> > > > > Now a damn good beating WOULD work because the one thing these kids
> > > > > woudl understand is that they temselves want to avoid feeling their
> > > > > own pain and if NOT inflicting pain on innocent animals means that
> > > > > they AVOID getting a painful beating, then they will refrain from
> > > > > bhurting animals. This is a kind of CONDITIONING, called NEGATIVE
> > > > > REINFORCEMENT heard of it? they learn to avoid doing the action
> > > > > which
> > > > > woudl result in something unpleasant happening to them, fairly
> > > > > simple
> > > > > really.
>
> > > > I agree. It's unfortunate that the law won't handle it that way, and I
> > > > doubt
> > > > the parents will either. When you have kids like that, you generally
> > > > have
> > > > parents with the same sorts of attitudes. I can almost guarantee that
> > > > the
> > > > parents will defend their sons: "Oh, it was only my son having a
> > > > little fun.
> > > > It was only some cats, after all. Boys will be boys. You bleeding
> > > > heart
> > > > whacko animal rights loonies are making a big deal out of nothing."
> > > > Kind of
> > > > like the crap that comes out of Iben Gentner's mouth. (In fact, I
> > > > wouldn't
> > > > be surprised to learn that dad is out there himself with the BB gun
> > > > shooting
> > > > at the squirrels in his garden.) And once the judge tells dad how much
> > > > money
> > > > he owes the families of the victims, I can guarantee you that dad will
> > > > go
> > > > home and beat the cr*p out of the kids (and probably mom too) because
> > > > now
> > > > he's going to have to cough up hundreds of pounds to pay for the cats'
> > > > medical bills. But, hey screw the cats.
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > ---Cindy S.
>
> > > > > it would be lovely if they chose not to hurt animals out of a
> > > > > respect
> > > > > for animals and life but with some of these kids that is never going
> > > > > to be the casesoyou have to employ alternative methods of getting
> > > > > what you want really
>
> > > > > anyone who is confused as to what I mean by conditioning, think
> > > > > about
> > > > > A Clockwork Orange and what the authorities did to Alex to sort him
> > > > > out and rehabilitate him in the second half of the film
>
> > > > > bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > I have just received a call from the police to tell us that they have
> > > the two boys involved with the incident have just been released from
> > > custody. They have just been questioned under caution, with their
> > > respective parents attending because you can't question a child over
> > > here unless they are present- or a social worker if the parents are
> > > unable to attend for any reason.
>
> > > The good news is that they have confessed to all of the shootings &
> > > have been charged with the offense & their parents have agreed to
> > > foot
> > > the bills,. But the bad news, is that they have accepted a caution.
>
> > > In the UK when you accept a caution it is admitting guilt, but you
> > > get
> > > away with it without a true blemish on your record, and you don't
> > > have
> > > have to attend court.
> > > I am sorely disappointed that is the case, because I was looking
> > > forward to attending their hearing with my BB rifle over my
> > > shoulder..after all, if they can do it & get away with it, why
> > > wouldn't I?
>
> > > Unfortunately, because they had unblemished records until this
> > > incident, the police were willing to allow them to accept a caution
> > > in
> > > this instance.
> > > However, the RSPCA have no such qualms about letting them off and
> > > will
> > > be bringing a private prosecution against them for animal cruelty, so
> > > this is not the end of the matter thankfully.
>
> > > The only other upside that I can think of presently is that we know
> > > them, & their parents, and we know where they live too.
> > > Interestingly, one of the boy's father's is head of the maths
> > > department @ a school that we were allocated for our daughter this
> > > coming September.( Until we screamed at the top of our lungs @ our
> > > Member of Parliament, & asked why she didn't meet the criteria to
> > > attend our local school-They gave us the place we deserved last week
> > > I
> > > love it when I'm right about something- who isn't?)
> > > Going too far off thread there, sorry!
>
> > > They were initially arrested under caution last night. Their homes
> > > were search & they found the guns as well as the pellets that they
> > > had
> > > left. This was the reason for keeping the pellets BTW, I stand
> > > corrected on that one, soz!
>
> > > They were questioned, but they denied the shootings to start with. It
> > > was the father that I mention who had a 5minute session with his son,
> > > before recommending the interview, and admitted his part in the
> > > shootings & noting the other child mas his partner in crime.
>
> > >So Basically they got off Scott free so far, as far as I am
> > > concerned;o(
> > > Both boys are aged 14 & have been to see us as well as all of the
> > > other families involved to apologize for what they did to our pets.
> > > In
> > > the case of the family who lost their cat, that amounts to Nothing!!
>
> > > I'm sure Ross will meet them somewhere one dark night in a nice
> > > remote
> > > alley way;in fact I am certain of it!!
>
> > > I am glad that they have agreed to pay costs incurred, & can only
> > > hope
> > > that the RSPCA bring a better case to courtsothat the bench do
> > > decide to make them do community service @ the very least. I agree
> > > with the suggestions put forward by you (but don't think I would get
> > > away with the base ball bat theory, unfortunately)
> > > I think it would be excellent to make them do a month at a vets
> > > [email protected] least they would have to face some of the things that they
> > > thought a laugh @ the time...
>
> > > If the parents don't pay up, however, then it will become a matter
> > > for
> > > the court because they have signed a binding contract to say that
> > > they
> > > will pay each family 40 per week. If they default, then we go back
> > > to
> > > court.
> > > I am quite certain that both families will be facing a great deal of
> > > overtime from now on for the foreseeable future.
> > > The rifles have been confiscated, & the Police wanted the pellets to
> > > see if they matched up to the batch that they found.
> > > I can only hope that the parents are as disgusted as I would be if I
> > > found out that any child of mine had done something as hideous as
> > > this
> > > to other peoples cat's .
> > > Quite disappointing really, but then again, we do have RSPCA case to
> > > look forward to I suppose
> > > S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > very quickly, but i will write a long winded response, later on i
> > promise, EXCELLENT!!!
> > liek you sheelagh i am not satisfied with the police letting the
> > little ****s go with just a caution, that is as good as doing nothing
> > in my book, especially as one of the cats died because the actions of
> > these mindless little ****s.
>
> We are all supporting Wizards Mummy & Daddy with their private
> prosecution against the boys involved.
> I thought that they had accepted the offer of 250 in compensation
> last night, but after speaking to her this morning, they have decided
> to take the case further themselves. I wish them all the luck in the
> world, & I have also offered to come to court with them if they need
> to as part of their case against them. In fact I intend to go
> regardless, just to see justice brought against them by one of us, in
> Wizards memory!!
>
> If I ...
>
> read more - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ha put your foot in my door Mr. 40 caliber smith and wesson will be
in
your face informing you where you would like to be buried and what god
or
gods do you need to pray to. This is after you get a face full of
police
issue pepper spray
Ha.!!
If only we could Matthew, I assure that we would.
Unfortunately, over here, if we do things like that without being able
to prove that it was under sever provocation & in self defence, we
would end up on child molesting charges trumped as high as the roof &
spend 20 years thinking about it, whilst they were about their
business murdering folk & robbing grannies for something to do...
I guess thats life though...
S;o)

Ps: I sat there with the latte's but I never saw you or the doughnuts,
what happend?

Matthew
April 2nd 07, 07:01 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...
On 2 Apr, 17:48, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
> On 1 Apr, 23:48, "bookie" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 1 Apr, 18:27, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > On 1 Apr, 17:25, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > > "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> > > oups.com...
>
> > > > >> >They may yet be reformed, or even
> > > > >> > reform themselves as they mature. The right kind of punishment
> > > > >> > for
> > > > >> > such
> > > > >> > individuals would be restitution of your expenses and community
> > > > >> > service
> > > > >> > at a veterinary hospital.
>
> > > > >> Personally, I think the right kind of punishment would be to
> > > > >> pepper
> > > > >> these
> > > > >> boys with a few pellets, but that's obviously not going to
> > > > >> happen,so
> > > > >> restitution and some sort of comunity service is going to be the
> > > > >> best the
> > > > >> law can do (if the law is able to do anything at all, that is).
> > > > >> Personally,
> > > > >> I would not want these boys doing community service at a
> > > > >> veterinary
> > > > >> hospital
> > > > >> where my animals were patients, however. I would be really
> > > > >> afraid.
>
> > > > > personally i do not think such community work would have any
> > > > > effect
> > > > > on
> > > > > these little ****s whatsoever, i think they are most probably
> > > > > beyond
> > > > > any sort of counselling or help and just need a damn good beating.
> > > > > You
> > > > > cannot reason with some kids who do not have the mental ability to
> > > > > understand that what they do is wrong and who cannot understand
> > > > > suffering in others (look up Theory of Mind, any child
> > > > > development
> > > > > text book will refer to it, look up Piaget too) as they are
> > > > > incapable
> > > > > of grasping the concept that other living creatures feel pain or
> > > > > suffering or hurt as they do and that other living creatures
> > > > > deserve
> > > > > respect and care as they do themselves. These people do not
> > > > > 'attend'
> > > > > to the pain they cause in others they just 'attend' to the feeling
> > > > > of
> > > > > enjoyment they themselves feel when they inflict pain on these
> > > > > other
> > > > > ceratrures, does that make sense? that is someone with 'psychotic'
> > > > > tendencies works and thiniks, (look up psychotic somewhere,
> > > > > preferably
> > > > > a psychology textbook).
>
> > > > I agree. Or they take pleasure in inflicting the pain.
>
> > > > > Now a damn good beating WOULD work because the one thing these
> > > > > kids
> > > > > woudl understand is that they temselves want to avoid feeling
> > > > > their
> > > > > own pain and if NOT inflicting pain on innocent animals means that
> > > > > they AVOID getting a painful beating, then they will refrain from
> > > > > bhurting animals. This is a kind of CONDITIONING, called NEGATIVE
> > > > > REINFORCEMENT heard of it? they learn to avoid doing the action
> > > > > which
> > > > > woudl result in something unpleasant happening to them, fairly
> > > > > simple
> > > > > really.
>
> > > > I agree. It's unfortunate that the law won't handle it that way, and
> > > > I
> > > > doubt
> > > > the parents will either. When you have kids like that, you generally
> > > > have
> > > > parents with the same sorts of attitudes. I can almost guarantee
> > > > that
> > > > the
> > > > parents will defend their sons: "Oh, it was only my son having a
> > > > little fun.
> > > > It was only some cats, after all. Boys will be boys. You bleeding
> > > > heart
> > > > whacko animal rights loonies are making a big deal out of nothing."
> > > > Kind of
> > > > like the crap that comes out of Iben Gentner's mouth. (In fact, I
> > > > wouldn't
> > > > be surprised to learn that dad is out there himself with the BB gun
> > > > shooting
> > > > at the squirrels in his garden.) And once the judge tells dad how
> > > > much
> > > > money
> > > > he owes the families of the victims, I can guarantee you that dad
> > > > will
> > > > go
> > > > home and beat the cr*p out of the kids (and probably mom too)
> > > > because
> > > > now
> > > > he's going to have to cough up hundreds of pounds to pay for the
> > > > cats'
> > > > medical bills. But, hey screw the cats.
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > ---Cindy S.
>
> > > > > it would be lovely if they chose not to hurt animals out of a
> > > > > respect
> > > > > for animals and life but with some of these kids that is never
> > > > > going
> > > > > to be the casesoyou have to employ alternative methods of getting
> > > > > what you want really
>
> > > > > anyone who is confused as to what I mean by conditioning, think
> > > > > about
> > > > > A Clockwork Orange and what the authorities did to Alex to sort
> > > > > him
> > > > > out and rehabilitate him in the second half of the film
>
> > > > > bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > I have just received a call from the police to tell us that they have
> > > the two boys involved with the incident have just been released from
> > > custody. They have just been questioned under caution, with their
> > > respective parents attending because you can't question a child over
> > > here unless they are present- or a social worker if the parents are
> > > unable to attend for any reason.
>
> > > The good news is that they have confessed to all of the shootings &
> > > have been charged with the offense & their parents have agreed to
> > > foot
> > > the bills,. But the bad news, is that they have accepted a caution.
>
> > > In the UK when you accept a caution it is admitting guilt, but you
> > > get
> > > away with it without a true blemish on your record, and you don't
> > > have
> > > have to attend court.
> > > I am sorely disappointed that is the case, because I was looking
> > > forward to attending their hearing with my BB rifle over my
> > > shoulder..after all, if they can do it & get away with it, why
> > > wouldn't I?
>
> > > Unfortunately, because they had unblemished records until this
> > > incident, the police were willing to allow them to accept a caution
> > > in
> > > this instance.
> > > However, the RSPCA have no such qualms about letting them off and
> > > will
> > > be bringing a private prosecution against them for animal cruelty, so
> > > this is not the end of the matter thankfully.
>
> > > The only other upside that I can think of presently is that we know
> > > them, & their parents, and we know where they live too.
> > > Interestingly, one of the boy's father's is head of the maths
> > > department @ a school that we were allocated for our daughter this
> > > coming September.( Until we screamed at the top of our lungs @ our
> > > Member of Parliament, & asked why she didn't meet the criteria to
> > > attend our local school-They gave us the place we deserved last week
> > > I
> > > love it when I'm right about something- who isn't?)
> > > Going too far off thread there, sorry!
>
> > > They were initially arrested under caution last night. Their homes
> > > were search & they found the guns as well as the pellets that they
> > > had
> > > left. This was the reason for keeping the pellets BTW, I stand
> > > corrected on that one, soz!
>
> > > They were questioned, but they denied the shootings to start with. It
> > > was the father that I mention who had a 5minute session with his son,
> > > before recommending the interview, and admitted his part in the
> > > shootings & noting the other child mas his partner in crime.
>
> > >So Basically they got off Scott free so far, as far as I am
> > > concerned;o(
> > > Both boys are aged 14 & have been to see us as well as all of the
> > > other families involved to apologize for what they did to our pets.
> > > In
> > > the case of the family who lost their cat, that amounts to Nothing!!
>
> > > I'm sure Ross will meet them somewhere one dark night in a nice
> > > remote
> > > alley way;in fact I am certain of it!!
>
> > > I am glad that they have agreed to pay costs incurred, & can only
> > > hope
> > > that the RSPCA bring a better case to courtsothat the bench do
> > > decide to make them do community service @ the very least. I agree
> > > with the suggestions put forward by you (but don't think I would get
> > > away with the base ball bat theory, unfortunately)
> > > I think it would be excellent to make them do a month at a vets
> > > [email protected] least they would have to face some of the things that they
> > > thought a laugh @ the time...
>
> > > If the parents don't pay up, however, then it will become a matter
> > > for
> > > the court because they have signed a binding contract to say that
> > > they
> > > will pay each family 40 per week. If they default, then we go back
> > > to
> > > court.
> > > I am quite certain that both families will be facing a great deal of
> > > overtime from now on for the foreseeable future.
> > > The rifles have been confiscated, & the Police wanted the pellets to
> > > see if they matched up to the batch that they found.
> > > I can only hope that the parents are as disgusted as I would be if I
> > > found out that any child of mine had done something as hideous as
> > > this
> > > to other peoples cat's .
> > > Quite disappointing really, but then again, we do have RSPCA case to
> > > look forward to I suppose
> > > S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > very quickly, but i will write a long winded response, later on i
> > promise, EXCELLENT!!!
> > liek you sheelagh i am not satisfied with the police letting the
> > little ****s go with just a caution, that is as good as doing nothing
> > in my book, especially as one of the cats died because the actions of
> > these mindless little ****s.
>
> We are all supporting Wizards Mummy & Daddy with their private
> prosecution against the boys involved.
> I thought that they had accepted the offer of 250 in compensation
> last night, but after speaking to her this morning, they have decided
> to take the case further themselves. I wish them all the luck in the
> world, & I have also offered to come to court with them if they need
> to as part of their case against them. In fact I intend to go
> regardless, just to see justice brought against them by one of us, in
> Wizards memory!!
>
> If I ...
>
> read more - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ha put your foot in my door Mr. 40 caliber smith and wesson will be
in
your face informing you where you would like to be buried and what god
or
gods do you need to pray to. This is after you get a face full of
police
issue pepper spray
Ha.!!
If only we could Matthew, I assure that we would.
Unfortunately, over here, if we do things like that without being able
to prove that it was under sever provocation & in self defence, we
would end up on child molesting charges trumped as high as the roof &
spend 20 years thinking about it, whilst they were about their
business murdering folk & robbing grannies for something to do...
I guess thats life though...
S;o)

Ps: I sat there with the latte's but I never saw you or the doughnuts,
what happend?


Lucky for us here in USA Florida all we have to proves is we were in
distress. Putting your foot in the door is considered bugarly and now with
the new law the perp is considered armed and dangerous


Sorry I cat ate all the doughnuts and they were closed by the time I got
back to it ;-)

sheelagh
April 2nd 07, 07:10 PM
On 2 Apr, 19:01, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
> On 2 Apr, 17:48, "Matthew" > wrote:
>
> > "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
> > On 1 Apr, 23:48, "bookie" > wrote:
>
> > > On 1 Apr, 18:27, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > > On 1 Apr, 17:25, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > > > "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> > > > oups.com...
>
> > > > > >> >They may yet be reformed, or even
> > > > > >> > reform themselves as they mature. The right kind of punishment
> > > > > >> > for
> > > > > >> > such
> > > > > >> > individuals would be restitution of your expenses and community
> > > > > >> > service
> > > > > >> > at a veterinary hospital.
>
> > > > > >> Personally, I think the right kind of punishment would be to
> > > > > >> pepper
> > > > > >> these
> > > > > >> boys with a few pellets, but that's obviously not going to
> > > > > >> happen,so
> > > > > >> restitution and some sort of comunity service is going to be the
> > > > > >> best the
> > > > > >> law can do (if the law is able to do anything at all, that is).
> > > > > >> Personally,
> > > > > >> I would not want these boys doing community service at a
> > > > > >> veterinary
> > > > > >> hospital
> > > > > >> where my animals were patients, however. I would be really
> > > > > >> afraid.
>
> > > > > > personally i do not think such community work would have any
> > > > > > effect
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > these little ****s whatsoever, i think they are most probably
> > > > > > beyond
> > > > > > any sort of counselling or help and just need a damn good beating.
> > > > > > You
> > > > > > cannot reason with some kids who do not have the mental ability to
> > > > > > understand that what they do is wrong and who cannot understand
> > > > > > suffering in others (look up Theory of Mind, any child
> > > > > > development
> > > > > > text book will refer to it, look up Piaget too) as they are
> > > > > > incapable
> > > > > > of grasping the concept that other living creatures feel pain or
> > > > > > suffering or hurt as they do and that other living creatures
> > > > > > deserve
> > > > > > respect and care as they do themselves. These people do not
> > > > > > 'attend'
> > > > > > to the pain they cause in others they just 'attend' to the feeling
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > enjoyment they themselves feel when they inflict pain on these
> > > > > > other
> > > > > > ceratrures, does that make sense? that is someone with 'psychotic'
> > > > > > tendencies works and thiniks, (look up psychotic somewhere,
> > > > > > preferably
> > > > > > a psychology textbook).
>
> > > > > I agree. Or they take pleasure in inflicting the pain.
>
> > > > > > Now a damn good beating WOULD work because the one thing these
> > > > > > kids
> > > > > > woudl understand is that they temselves want to avoid feeling
> > > > > > their
> > > > > > own pain and if NOT inflicting pain on innocent animals means that
> > > > > > they AVOID getting a painful beating, then they will refrain from
> > > > > > bhurting animals. This is a kind of CONDITIONING, called NEGATIVE
> > > > > > REINFORCEMENT heard of it? they learn to avoid doing the action
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > woudl result in something unpleasant happening to them, fairly
> > > > > > simple
> > > > > > really.
>
> > > > > I agree. It's unfortunate that the law won't handle it that way, and
> > > > > I
> > > > > doubt
> > > > > the parents will either. When you have kids like that, you generally
> > > > > have
> > > > > parents with the same sorts of attitudes. I can almost guarantee
> > > > > that
> > > > > the
> > > > > parents will defend their sons: "Oh, it was only my son having a
> > > > > little fun.
> > > > > It was only some cats, after all. Boys will be boys. You bleeding
> > > > > heart
> > > > > whacko animal rights loonies are making a big deal out of nothing.."
> > > > > Kind of
> > > > > like the crap that comes out of Iben Gentner's mouth. (In fact, I
> > > > > wouldn't
> > > > > be surprised to learn that dad is out there himself with the BB gun
> > > > > shooting
> > > > > at the squirrels in his garden.) And once the judge tells dad how
> > > > > much
> > > > > money
> > > > > he owes the families of the victims, I can guarantee you that dad
> > > > > will
> > > > > go
> > > > > home and beat the cr*p out of the kids (and probably mom too)
> > > > > because
> > > > > now
> > > > > he's going to have to cough up hundreds of pounds to pay for the
> > > > > cats'
> > > > > medical bills. But, hey screw the cats.
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > ---Cindy S.
>
> > > > > > it would be lovely if they chose not to hurt animals out of a
> > > > > > respect
> > > > > > for animals and life but with some of these kids that is never
> > > > > > going
> > > > > > to be the casesoyou have to employ alternative methods of getting
> > > > > > what you want really
>
> > > > > > anyone who is confused as to what I mean by conditioning, think
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > A Clockwork Orange and what the authorities did to Alex to sort
> > > > > > him
> > > > > > out and rehabilitate him in the second half of the film
>
> > > > > > bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > I have just received a call from the police to tell us that they have
> > > > the two boys involved with the incident have just been released from
> > > > custody. They have just been questioned under caution, with their
> > > > respective parents attending because you can't question a child over
> > > > here unless they are present- or a social worker if the parents are
> > > > unable to attend for any reason.
>
> > > > The good news is that they have confessed to all of the shootings &
> > > > have been charged with the offense & their parents have agreed to
> > > > foot
> > > > the bills,. But the bad news, is that they have accepted a caution.
>
> > > > In the UK when you accept a caution it is admitting guilt, but you
> > > > get
> > > > away with it without a true blemish on your record, and you don't
> > > > have
> > > > have to attend court.
> > > > I am sorely disappointed that is the case, because I was looking
> > > > forward to attending their hearing with my BB rifle over my
> > > > shoulder..after all, if they can do it & get away with it, why
> > > > wouldn't I?
>
> > > > Unfortunately, because they had unblemished records until this
> > > > incident, the police were willing to allow them to accept a caution
> > > > in
> > > > this instance.
> > > > However, the RSPCA have no such qualms about letting them off and
> > > > will
> > > > be bringing a private prosecution against them for animal cruelty, so
> > > > this is not the end of the matter thankfully.
>
> > > > The only other upside that I can think of presently is that we know
> > > > them, & their parents, and we know where they live too.
> > > > Interestingly, one of the boy's father's is head of the maths
> > > > department @ a school that we were allocated for our daughter this
> > > > coming September.( Until we screamed at the top of our lungs @ our
> > > > Member of Parliament, & asked why she didn't meet the criteria to
> > > > attend our local school-They gave us the place we deserved last week
> > > > I
> > > > love it when I'm right about something- who isn't?)
> > > > Going too far off thread there, sorry!
>
> > > > They were initially arrested under caution last night. Their homes
> > > > were search & they found the guns as well as the pellets that they
> > > > had
> > > > left. This was the reason for keeping the pellets BTW, I stand
> > > > corrected on that one, soz!
>
> > > > They were questioned, but they denied the shootings to start with. It
> > > > was the father that I mention who had a 5minute session with his son,
> > > > before recommending the interview, and admitted his part in the
> > > > shootings & noting the other child mas his partner in crime.
>
> > > >So Basically they got off Scott free so far, as far as I am
> > > > concerned;o(
> > > > Both boys are aged 14 & have been to see us as well as all of the
> > > > other families involved to apologize for what they did to our pets.
> > > > In
> > > > the case of the family who lost their cat, that amounts to Nothing!!
>
> > > > I'm sure Ross will meet them somewhere one dark night in a nice
> > > > remote
> > > > alley way;in fact I am certain of it!!
>
> > > > I am glad that they have agreed to pay costs incurred, & can only
> > > > hope
> > > > that the RSPCA bring a better case to courtsothat the bench do
> > > > decide to make them do community service @ the very least. I agree
> > > > with the suggestions put forward by you (but don't think I would get
> > > > away with the base ball bat theory, unfortunately)
> > > > I think it would be excellent to make them do a month at a vets
> > > > [email protected] least they would have to face some of the things that they
> > > > thought a laugh @ the time...
>
> > > > If the parents don't pay up, however, then it will become a matter
> > > > for
> > > > the court because they have signed a binding contract to say that
> > > > they
> > > > will pay each family 40 per week. If they default, then we go back
> > > > to
> > > > court.
> > > > I am quite certain that both families will be facing a great deal of
> > > > overtime from now on for the foreseeable future.
> > > > The rifles have been confiscated, & the Police wanted the pellets to
> > > > see if they matched up to the batch that they found.
> > > > I can only hope that the parents are as disgusted as I would be if I
> > > > found out that any child of mine had done something as hideous as
> > > > this
> > > > to other peoples cat's .
> > > > Quite disappointing really, but then again, we do have RSPCA case to
> > > > look forward to I suppose
> > > > S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > very quickly, but i will write a long winded response, later on i
> > > promise, EXCELLENT!!!
> > > liek you sheelagh i am not satisfied with the police letting the
> > > little ****s go with just a caution, that is as good as doing nothing
> > > in my book, especially as one of the cats died because the actions of
> > > these mindless little ****s.
>
> > We are all supporting Wizards Mummy & Daddy with their private
> > prosecution against the boys involved.
> > I thought that they had accepted the offer of 250 in compensation
> > last night, but after speaking to her this morning, they have decided
> > to take the case further themselves. I wish them all the luck in the
> > world, & I have also offered to come to court with them if they need
> > to as part of their case against them. In fact I intend to go
> > regardless, just to see justice brought against them by one of us, in
> > Wizards memory!!
>
> > If I ...
>
> > read more - Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Ha put your foot in my door Mr. 40 caliber smith and wesson will be
> in
> your face informing you where you would like to be buried and what god
> or
> gods do you need to pray to. This is after you get a face full of
> police
> issue pepper spray
> Ha.!!
> If only we could Matthew, I assure that we would.
> Unfortunately, over here, if we do things like that without being able
> to prove that it was under sever provocation & in self defence, we
> would end up on child molesting charges trumped as high as the roof &
> spend 20 years thinking about it, whilst they were about their
> business murdering folk & robbing grannies for something to do...
> I guess thats life though...
> S;o)
>
> Ps: I sat there with the latte's but I never saw you or the doughnuts,
> what happend?
>
> Lucky for us here in USA Florida all we have to proves is we were in
> distress. Putting your foot in the door is considered bugarly and now with
> the new law the perp is considered armed and dangerous

I would imagine that one day we will get the right to do that..
I think it will be a few years off yet though.

I can remember wondering what life would be like when we eventually
got 24/7 shopping, & now it's here & up the road, so I may be in my
lifetime yet, who knows?
There was also a time when I wondered what a MC Donalds tasted like
too...
Boy those years are piling on as I simply think, lol!!

> Sorry I cat ate all the doughnuts and they were closed by the time I got
> back to it ;-)

TUT TUT!!
I understand.. I bet they were caramel ones, hey?
My favourite ones too;(
S;o)

IBen Getiner
April 2nd 07, 07:44 PM
On Apr 2, 11:30�am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 2 Apr, 01:21, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 1, 9:21 am, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> > ...
> > > snip>
>
> > > > Yes. *I completely understand your anger. *ShootingRingowas a cruel and
> > > > gratuitous act that resulted in a great deal of suffering for the animal
> > > > as well as grief and expense for your family. *There is no excuse, and
> > > > the only mitigating factor is that he is recovering well from what could
> > > > have been a fatal attack. *However, I tend to think this was probably the
> > > > work of teenaged boys run amok with obnoxious impulses they don't
> > > > understand well enough to control.
>
> > > Please don't be offended Charlie, but I think you're being naive.
>
> > Oh... IBen's a kook but Charlie here... He's just 'naive'... Uh,
> > huhhh..
>
> > > It seems
> > > that wife-abusers, child-beaters, mass murderers, almost invariably have a
> > > history of hurting animals in their youth.
>
> > ALL young boys go thru a stage of sadism. All. It's only the ones with
> > parents like YOU who end up being serial killers. Because you don't
> > see it for the temporal thing that it is. Instead, you make your kid
> > feel 'special' about himself. I'm not saying that it's right for a
> > young boy to do that. Only that all boys go thru it. Just like most go
> > thru a stealing phase. And almost all outgrow that as well. Are you
> > going to tell me that most of THEM are going to live a life of crime?
> > I myself could steal the stool out from under the 7/11 clerk when I
> > was 15, yet I have been a steadily employed taxpayer for longer than
> > you've probably been alive. It's parents like YOU who have screw up
> > the heads of our youth today... with all of your paranoid 'modern
> > sensibilities' and the like. Hell, we rarely IF EVER had the problem
> > of violence that today's youth seem to emulate and live for. And I
> > take that to be a direct reflection on obsessive nail-biting weird-O's
> > like YOU.
>
> I suppose you want a medal for that little performance too, do you?
> 7/11 was depraved, & for you to mock it makes you look worse than you
> already do, if that is possible
>
>
>
> >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Why don't you just shut up.......



IBen Getiner

IBen Getiner
April 2nd 07, 08:24 PM
On Apr 2, 1:50?pm, Nomen Nescio > wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> From: "IBen Getiner" >


<snip the 1/2 of the 1/2 of the lower 1 percent>

> Need a few more?

No. But I would like you to post a link to your sources... :)



IBen Getiner

sheelagh
April 2nd 07, 10:53 PM
On 2 Apr, 19:44, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
> On Apr 2, 11:30?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2 Apr, 01:21, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 1, 9:21 am, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > > "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> > > ...
> > > > snip>
>
> > > > > Yes. I completely understand your anger. ShootingRingowas a cruel and
> > > > > gratuitous act that resulted in a great deal of suffering for the animal
> > > > > as well as grief and expense for your family. There is no excuse, and
> > > > > the only mitigating factor is that he is recovering well from what could
> > > > > have been a fatal attack. However, I tend to think this was probably the
> > > > > work of teenaged boys run amok with obnoxious impulses they don't
> > > > > understand well enough to control.
>
> > > > Please don't be offended Charlie, but I think you're being naive.
>
> > > Oh... IBen's a kook but Charlie here... He's just 'naive'... Uh,
> > > huhhh..
>
> > > > It seems
> > > > that wife-abusers, child-beaters, mass murderers, almost invariably have a
> > > > history of hurting animals in their youth.
>
> > > ALL young boys go thru a stage of sadism. All. It's only the ones with
> > > parents like YOU who end up being serial killers. Because you don't
> > > see it for the temporal thing that it is. Instead, you make your kid
> > > feel 'special' about himself. I'm not saying that it's right for a
> > > young boy to do that. Only that all boys go thru it. Just like most go
> > > thru a stealing phase. And almost all outgrow that as well. Are you
> > > going to tell me that most of THEM are going to live a life of crime?
> > > I myself could steal the stool out from under the 7/11 clerk when I
> > > was 15, yet I have been a steadily employed taxpayer for longer than
> > > you've probably been alive. It's parents like YOU who have screw up
> > > the heads of our youth today... with all of your paranoid 'modern
> > > sensibilities' and the like. Hell, we rarely IF EVER had the problem
> > > of violence that today's youth seem to emulate and live for. And I
> > > take that to be a direct reflection on obsessive nail-biting weird-O's
> > > like YOU.
>
> > I suppose you want a medal for that little performance too, do you?
> > 7/11 was depraved, & for you to mock it makes you look worse than you
> > already do, if that is possible
>
> > >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Why don't you just shut up.......
>
> IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



DITO!
You call everyone here with patronising remarks, you treat women like
filth, & the only thing that is important to you are your own
thoughts.

Never once have you stopped to consider whether your remarks are
reasonable or whether they hurt others;it doesn't matter if they hurt,
after all, it doesn't hurt you.

Your posts yesterday were more than derogatory regarding both myself
and Ringo, my partner, "Mr Sheelagh", & my children are faggots too..
but hey, that doesn't matter, old Iben has spoken, so get down on your
knees, worship & be grateful....
How would you feel if I did that to you?
I think that you would find it offensive..we all do

Perhaps if you were to apologize to a few of the people who you
patronised, they might be willing to listen to you, in the belief that
you might actually can be reasonable....

Until then, please feel free to leave the room.
I believe if you go right back through this thread, You won't find a
single person who you haven't either upset/made to feel stupid/ or
ridiculed.
Why do expect respect if you don't have the humility to accept that
you have wronged them?

Because you have wronged them, every single one of them if you look
deep enough. Take a few of your own comments to heart and question
whether you are really here because of your love of cats, or simply
here to hurt other peoples feeling's...
What does an apology cost?

Nothing but a bit of backbone and the self respect to admit that you
are wrong.
I am wrong all the time, but it doesn't stop me from holding my hands
up when I am.
I hope that you can.
S.

Dave Whiley
April 2nd 07, 10:55 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message

> In the UK when you accept a caution it is admitting guilt, but you get
> away with it without a true blemish on your record, and you don't have
> have to attend court.

If it helps at all, it is considered a conviction, as they might well find
out if and when they apply for some jobs, or try to enter certain countries.
Not much of a consolation, I know, but it's something.

OTOH, if and when the RSPCA do get them in to court, expect that they
"cannot be named for legal reasons".

All the best for Ringo and the other surviving cats.


--
Dave

not-me should be djw401 and there's no need for any wossname

IBen Getiner
April 3rd 07, 09:10 AM
On Apr 2, 7:10?pm, Nomen Nescio > wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> From: "IBen Getiner" >
>
> >> Need a few more?
>
> >No. But I would like you to post a link to your sources... :)
>
> They're all referenced under the paragraph.
>

Put up the link. Directly to the story, if you please. Otherwise, I'll
just have to assume that you made them all up. You're not going to
post what you claim to be facts without posting their legitimacy.
What...? Did you think that I wasn't going to call you on it?


> But I'll be happy to post a few links, just as soon as you show me
> an equal number of incidents where "Your typical female gun owner
> will pull a gun maybe,
> but her instincts as a mother always stop her from taking a life. Even
> if the price is her own. Consequently, most are disarmed by their own
> assailants, and then have their own guns used against them."
>


If you can't post balanced, credible, non-biased sources for your
claims, then all you have is an opinion! And until you can, that's all
you got. I, on the other hand, need not post anything to defend my
claims. Because that's what I'm placing forth here.. My opinion. It is
an opinion based on my own personal life's experiences and
observations that show, with few exceptions, that the concept of self-
defense is an alien one to women. History, human biology and genetics
back this up. It is a know fact that testosterone vs. estrogen is a
prime reason for the aggressiveness differences between the sexes.
This is also a prime reason why a totally disproportional number of
violent offenders in the prison systems down thru history have been
men. Why wars are fought almost exclusively by men. And why men
basically have always run this planet. All things that we see each and
every day in our history books, newspapers and on our TV news. Those
are the medical and sociological facts, which when paired to my own
personal experiences become my educated opinion. And it's one that
I'll keep and hold dear until someone can undeniably prove otherwise.
They are my true beliefs, which is all that really matters to me. I am
a man who lives by the rules of common sense and I know them to be
true.
Another problem that you'll have in proving your point is that there
is the hugely disproportional number of black women involved in
violent gun crime, and violence in general. They come from a brutal,
sub-human culture to start with, thereby skewing any statically number
comparison that you might find for proper analysis.
Yes indeed... post some more of your krap. But be it know now that
until you can come up with some hard numbers... numbers that show
percentages of BOTH the sexes in self-defense situations, you have
only your OPINION. That or you're just a counterfeiting liar. Which is
it...?


IBen Getiner

IBen Getiner
April 3rd 07, 10:11 AM
On Apr 2, 5:53?pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 2 Apr, 19:44, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 2, 11:30?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > On 2 Apr, 01:21, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > > On Apr 1, 9:21 am, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > > > "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> > > > ...
> > > > > snip>
>
> > > > > > Yes. I completely understand your anger. ShootingRingowas a cruel and
> > > > > > gratuitous act that resulted in a great deal of suffering for the animal
> > > > > > as well as grief and expense for your family. There is no excuse, and
> > > > > > the only mitigating factor is that he is recovering well from what could
> > > > > > have been a fatal attack. However, I tend to think this was probably the
> > > > > > work of teenaged boys run amok with obnoxious impulses they don't
> > > > > > understand well enough to control.
>
> > > > > Please don't be offended Charlie, but I think you're being naive.
>
> > > > Oh... IBen's a kook but Charlie here... He's just 'naive'... Uh,
> > > > huhhh..
>
> > > > > It seems
> > > > > that wife-abusers, child-beaters, mass murderers, almost invariably have a
> > > > > history of hurting animals in their youth.
>
> > > > ALL young boys go thru a stage of sadism. All. It's only the ones with
> > > > parents like YOU who end up being serial killers. Because you don't
> > > > see it for the temporal thing that it is. Instead, you make your kid
> > > > feel 'special' about himself. I'm not saying that it's right for a
> > > > young boy to do that. Only that all boys go thru it. Just like most go
> > > > thru a stealing phase. And almost all outgrow that as well. Are you
> > > > going to tell me that most of THEM are going to live a life of crime?
> > > > I myself could steal the stool out from under the 7/11 clerk when I
> > > > was 15, yet I have been a steadily employed taxpayer for longer than
> > > > you've probably been alive. It's parents like YOU who have screw up
> > > > the heads of our youth today... with all of your paranoid 'modern
> > > > sensibilities' and the like. Hell, we rarely IF EVER had the problem
> > > > of violence that today's youth seem to emulate and live for. And I
> > > > take that to be a direct reflection on obsessive nail-biting weird-O's
> > > > like YOU.
>
> > > I suppose you want a medal for that little performance too, do you?
> > > 7/11 was depraved, & for you to mock it makes you look worse than you
> > > already do, if that is possible
>
> > > >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Why don't you just shut up.......
>
> >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> DITO!
> You call everyone here with patronising remarks, you treat women like
> filth, & the only thing that is important to you are your own
> thoughts.
>

A few of my many charms. But do continue...


> Never once have you stopped to consider whether your remarks are
> reasonable or whether they hurt others;it doesn't matter if they hurt,
> after all, it doesn't hurt you.
>

I say what I say. Ignore me or learn to live with it. That's my
advice. If you're smart, you'll take it.. But you won't.

> Your posts yesterday were more than derogatory regarding both myself
> and Ringo, my partner, "Mr Sheelagh", & my children are faggots too..
> but hey, that doesn't matter, old IBen has spoken, so get down on your
> knees, worship & be grateful....

I have said from the start that I felt Ringo didn't deserve the
retaliation that he took... I said it was you who deserved it. As far
as your 'partner'... does that mean you're a lesbian...? If so, I
think I can tell which is the 'husband' and which is the 'wife'.
LOL...!!
And yes, by all means... Get down on your knees and worship me. RIGHT
NOW.


> How would you feel if I did that to you?
>

You have. That's all you do. But no need to worry. I won't come
UNGLUED and whimper about it. You see... I'm not 'damaged goods'
around here, as many are.


> I think that you would find it offensive..we all do
>

Not true. Do your worst.

> Perhaps if you were to apologize to a few of the people who you
> patronised, they might be willing to listen to you, in the belief that
> you might actually can be reasonable....
>

Bull Krap. I have been hounded and criticized by certain high-and-
mighty pious-azzed members of this group ever since the wife and I
first posted here many years ago. My kat had a problem with excessive
grooming, you see. But all they did was rail me. And then the charges
of 'racism' began to fly... Not for anything that I had actually said
here, you might know.. Bigots. Haters. That's all they are. And they
claim to love innocent things like cats....
But that's alright... That's okay. IKan take it. It doesn't hurt
anymore. I've taken it and bent it to my use. And now look at it...
Beautiful, don't you agree...?

> Until then, please feel free to leave the room.
> I believe if you go right back through this thread, You won't find a
> single person who you haven't either upset/made to feel stupid/ or
> ridiculed.
>

I only post MY OPINION. My "3 cents", as I like to call it. I call it
that because it in MY OPINION that MY OPINION is better than your
opinion. Or anybody else's, for that matter. So please... don't take
to so to heart. Don't you have enough confidence in your own belief
structure to stand tall on that and that alone? No matter what a rival
may say? This is prime proof that men are far superior to women when
it comes to keeping one's head about them. Especially while under
pressure....

> Why do expect respect if you don't have the humility to accept that
> you have wronged them?
>

For the thousandth time... I don't CARE if I receive your respect or
not. It doesn't mean diddley to me. My entire life has been built
around the task of forever weaning myself away from the approval of
others. That is why I now have plenty of self-worth and self-
confidence. In short, I am not for sale. Do we understand each
other...? If so, then hate away. I don't mind. Really .

> Because you have wronged them, every single one of them if you look
> deep enough. Take a few of your own comments to heart and question
> whether you are really here because of your love of cats, or simply
> here to hurt other peoples feeling's...
>

I NEVER seek to hurt another. Not until they ask for it. I voice MY
OPINION. Take it or LEAVE ME ALONE.

> What does an apology cost?
>
> Nothing but a bit of backbone and the self respect to admit that you
> are wrong.
>

A good point. If it were true. I'll have to take it under advisement..

> I am wrong all the time, but it doesn't stop me from holding my hands
> up when I am.
> I hope that you can.
>

What can I say to that.... I am sorry that I have apparently hurt your
feelings. I do not set out to. To me, it is all in the din and clang
of battle. Once the battle gets going, that iz. And that part is your
fault. Not mine. I hope you can understand this and I hope too that
your kitty gets better, and I hope they punish the ever-loving dog-
**** out of those kids, if kids really did in-fact do it, and for the
reason of having their unacceptable, hurtful, cruel adolescent-based
'fun'. That being said....... Sai-ya-nada



IBen Getiner

IBen Getiner
April 3rd 07, 10:22 AM
On Apr 2, 5:53?pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 2 Apr, 19:44, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 2, 11:30?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > On 2 Apr, 01:21, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > > On Apr 1, 9:21 am, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > > > "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> > > > ...
> > > > > snip>
>
> > > > > > Yes. I completely understand your anger. ShootingRingowas a cruel and
> > > > > > gratuitous act that resulted in a great deal of suffering for the animal
> > > > > > as well as grief and expense for your family. There is no excuse, and
> > > > > > the only mitigating factor is that he is recovering well from what could
> > > > > > have been a fatal attack. However, I tend to think this was probably the
> > > > > > work of teenaged boys run amok with obnoxious impulses they don't
> > > > > > understand well enough to control.
>
> > > > > Please don't be offended Charlie, but I think you're being naive.
>
> > > > Oh... IBen's a kook but Charlie here... He's just 'naive'... Uh,
> > > > huhhh..
>
> > > > > It seems
> > > > > that wife-abusers, child-beaters, mass murderers, almost invariably have a
> > > > > history of hurting animals in their youth.
>
> > > > ALL young boys go thru a stage of sadism. All. It's only the ones with
> > > > parents like YOU who end up being serial killers. Because you don't
> > > > see it for the temporal thing that it is. Instead, you make your kid
> > > > feel 'special' about himself. I'm not saying that it's right for a
> > > > young boy to do that. Only that all boys go thru it. Just like most go
> > > > thru a stealing phase. And almost all outgrow that as well. Are you
> > > > going to tell me that most of THEM are going to live a life of crime?
> > > > I myself could steal the stool out from under the 7/11 clerk when I
> > > > was 15, yet I have been a steadily employed taxpayer for longer than
> > > > you've probably been alive. It's parents like YOU who have screw up
> > > > the heads of our youth today... with all of your paranoid 'modern
> > > > sensibilities' and the like. Hell, we rarely IF EVER had the problem
> > > > of violence that today's youth seem to emulate and live for. And I
> > > > take that to be a direct reflection on obsessive nail-biting weird-O's
> > > > like YOU.
>
> > > I suppose you want a medal for that little performance too, do you?
> > > 7/11 was depraved, & for you to mock it makes you look worse than you
> > > already do, if that is possible
>
> > > >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Why don't you just shut up.......
>
> >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> DITO!
> You call everyone here with patronising remarks, you treat women like
> filth, & the only thing that is important to you are your own
> thoughts.
>

A few of my many charms. But do continue...


> Never once have you stopped to consider whether your remarks are
> reasonable or whether they hurt others;it doesn't matter if they hurt,
> after all, it doesn't hurt you.
>

I say what I say. Ignore me or learn to live with it. That's my
advice. If you're smart, you'll take it.. But you won't.

> Your posts yesterday were more than derogatory regarding both myself
> and Ringo, my partner, "Mr Sheelagh", & my children are faggots too..
> but hey, that doesn't matter, old IBen has spoken, so get down on your
> knees, worship & be grateful....

I have said from the start that I felt Ringo didn't deserve the
retaliation that he took... I said it was you who deserved it. As far
as your 'partner'... does that mean you're a lesbian...? If so, I
think I can tell which is the 'husband' and which is the 'wife'.
LOL...!!
And yes, by all means... Get down on your knees and worship me. RIGHT
NOW.


> How would you feel if I did that to you?
>

You have. That's all you do. But no need to worry. I won't come
UNGLUED and whimper about it. You see... I'm not 'damaged goods'
around here, as many are.


> I think that you would find it offensive..we all do
>

Not true. Do your worst.

> Perhaps if you were to apologize to a few of the people who you
> patronised, they might be willing to listen to you, in the belief that
> you might actually can be reasonable....
>

Bull Krap. I have been hounded and criticized by certain high-and-
mighty pious-azzed members of this group ever since the wife and I
first posted here many years ago. My kat had a problem with excessive
grooming, you see. But all they did was rail me. And then the charges
of 'racism' began to fly... Not for anything that I had actually said
in here, you might know.. Bigots. Haters. That's all they are. And
they claim to love innocent things like cats....
But that's alright... That's okay. IKan take it. It doesn't hurt
anymore. I've taken it and bent it to my use. And now look at it...
Beautiful, don't you agree...?

> Until then, please feel free to leave the room.
> I believe if you go right back through this thread, You won't find a
> single person who you haven't either upset/made to feel stupid/ or
> ridiculed.
>

I only post MY OPINION. My "3 cents", as I like to call it. I call it
that because it is MY OPINION that MY OPINION is better than your
opinion. Or anybody else's, for that matter. So please... don't take
to so to heart. Don't you have enough confidence in your own belief
structure to stand tall on that and that alone? No matter what a rival
may say? This is prime proof that men are far superior to women when
it comes to keeping one's head about them. Especially while under
pressure....

> Why do expect respect if you don't have the humility to accept that
> you have wronged them?
>

For the thousandth time... I don't CARE if I receive your respect or
not. It doesn't mean diddley to me. My entire life has been built
around the task of forever weaning myself away from the approval of
others. That is why I now have self-worth and self-confidence. In
short, I am not for sale. Do we understand each other...? If so, then
hate away. I don't mind. Really .

> Because you have wronged them, every single one of them if you look
> deep enough. Take a few of your own comments to heart and question
> whether you are really here because of your love of cats, or simply
> here to hurt other peoples feeling's...
>

I NEVER seek to hurt another. Not until they ask for it. I voice MY
OPINION. Take it or LEAVE ME ALONE.

> What does an apology cost?
>
> Nothing but a bit of backbone and the self respect to admit that you
> are wrong.
>

A good point. If it were true. I'll have to take it under advisement..

> I am wrong all the time, but it doesn't stop me from holding my hands
> up when I am.
> I hope that you can.
>

What can I say to that.... I am sorry that I have apparently hurt your
feelings. I do not set out to. To me, it is all in the din and clang
of battle. Once the battle gets going, that iz. And that part is your
fault. Not mine. I hope you can understand this and I hope too that
your kitty gets better, and I hope they punish the ever-loving dog-
**** out of those kids, if kids really did in-fact do it, and for the
reason of having their unacceptable, hurtful, cruel adolescent-based
'fun'. That being said....... Sai-ya-nada



IBen Getiner

bookie
April 3rd 07, 02:32 PM
On 3 Apr, 10:22, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
> On Apr 2, 5:53?pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2 Apr, 19:44, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 2, 11:30?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > > On 2 Apr, 01:21, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Apr 1, 9:21 am, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > > > > "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > snip>
>
> > > > > > > Yes. I completely understand your anger. ShootingRingowas a cruel and
> > > > > > > gratuitous act that resulted in a great deal of suffering for the animal
> > > > > > > as well as grief and expense for your family. There is no excuse, and
> > > > > > > the only mitigating factor is that he is recovering well from what could
> > > > > > > have been a fatal attack. However, I tend to think this was probably the
> > > > > > > work of teenaged boys run amok with obnoxious impulses they don't
> > > > > > > understand well enough to control.
>
> > > > > > Please don't be offended Charlie, but I think you're being naive.
>
> > > > > Oh... IBen's a kook but Charlie here... He's just 'naive'... Uh,
> > > > > huhhh..
>
> > > > > > It seems
> > > > > > that wife-abusers, child-beaters, mass murderers, almost invariably have a
> > > > > > history of hurting animals in their youth.
>
> > > > > ALL young boys go thru a stage of sadism. All. It's only the ones with
> > > > > parents like YOU who end up being serial killers. Because you don't
> > > > > see it for the temporal thing that it is. Instead, you make your kid
> > > > > feel 'special' about himself. I'm not saying that it's right for a
> > > > > young boy to do that. Only that all boys go thru it. Just like most go
> > > > > thru a stealing phase. And almost all outgrow that as well. Are you
> > > > > going to tell me that most of THEM are going to live a life of crime?
> > > > > I myself could steal the stool out from under the 7/11 clerk when I
> > > > > was 15, yet I have been a steadily employed taxpayer for longer than
> > > > > you've probably been alive. It's parents like YOU who have screw up
> > > > > the heads of our youth today... with all of your paranoid 'modern
> > > > > sensibilities' and the like. Hell, we rarely IF EVER had the problem
> > > > > of violence that today's youth seem to emulate and live for. And I
> > > > > take that to be a direct reflection on obsessive nail-biting weird-O's
> > > > > like YOU.
>
> > > > I suppose you want a medal for that little performance too, do you?
> > > > 7/11 was depraved, & for you to mock it makes you look worse than you
> > > > already do, if that is possible
>
> > > > >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Why don't you just shut up.......
>
> > >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > DITO!
> > You call everyone here with patronising remarks, you treat women like
> > filth, & the only thing that is important to you are your own
> > thoughts.
>
> A few of my many charms. But do continue...
>
> > Never once have you stopped to consider whether your remarks are
> > reasonable or whether they hurt others;it doesn't matter if they hurt,
> > after all, it doesn't hurt you.
>
> I say what I say. Ignore me or learn to live with it. That's my
> advice. If you're smart, you'll take it.. But you won't.
>
> > Your posts yesterday were more than derogatory regarding both myself
> > and Ringo, my partner, "Mr Sheelagh", & my children are faggots too..
> > but hey, that doesn't matter, old IBen has spoken, so get down on your
> > knees, worship & be grateful....
>
> I have said from the start that I felt Ringo didn't deserve the
> retaliation that he took... I said it was you who deserved it. As far
> as your 'partner'... does that mean you're a lesbian...? If so, I
> think I can tell which is the 'husband' and which is the 'wife'.
> LOL...!!
> And yes, by all means... Get down on your knees and worship me. RIGHT
> NOW.
>
> > How would you feel if I did that to you?
>
> You have. That's all you do. But no need to worry. I won't come
> UNGLUED and whimper about it. You see... I'm not 'damaged goods'
> around here, as many are.
>
> > I think that you would find it offensive..we all do
>
> Not true. Do your worst.
>
> > Perhaps if you were to apologize to a few of the people who you
> > patronised, they might be willing to listen to you, in the belief that
> > you might actually can be reasonable....
>
> Bull Krap. I have been hounded and criticized by certain high-and-
> mighty pious-azzed members of this group ever since the wife and I
> first posted here many years ago. My kat had a problem with excessive
> grooming, you see. But all they did was rail me. And then the charges
> of 'racism' began to fly... Not for anything that I had actually said
> in here, you might know.. Bigots. Haters. That's all they are. And
> they claim to love innocent things like cats....
> But that's alright... That's okay. IKan take it. It doesn't hurt
> anymore. I've taken it and bent it to my use. And now look at it...
> Beautiful, don't you agree...?
>
> > Until then, please feel free to leave the room.
> > I believe if you go right back through this thread, You won't find a
> > single person who you haven't either upset/made to feel stupid/ or
> > ridiculed.
>
> I only post MY OPINION. My "3 cents", as I like to call it. I call it
> that because it is MY OPINION that MY OPINION is better than your
> opinion. Or anybody else's, for that matter. So please... don't take
> to so to heart. Don't you have enough confidence in your own belief
> structure to stand tall on that and that alone? No matter what a rival
> may say? This is prime proof that men are far superior to women when
> it comes to keeping one's head about them. Especially while under
> pressure....
>
> > Why do expect respect if you don't have the humility to accept that
> > you have wronged them?
>
> For the thousandth time... I don't CARE if I receive your respect or
> not. It doesn't mean diddley to me. My entire life has been built
> around the task of forever weaning myself away from the approval of
> others. That is why I now have self-worth and self-confidence. In
> short, I am not for sale. Do we understand each other...? If so, then
> hate away. I don't mind. Really .
>
> > Because you have wronged them, every single one of them if you look
> > deep enough. Take a few of your own comments to heart and question
> > whether you are really here because of your love of cats, or simply
> > here to hurt other peoples feeling's...
>
> I NEVER seek to hurt another. Not until they ask for it. I voice MY
> OPINION. Take it or LEAVE ME ALONE.
>
> > What does an apology cost?
>
> > Nothing but a bit of backbone and the self respect to admit that you
> > are wrong.
>
> A good point. If it were true. I'll have to take it under advisement..
>
> > I am wrong all the time, but it doesn't stop me from holding my hands
> > up when I am.
> > I hope that you can.
>
> What can I say to that.... I am sorry that I have apparently hurt your
> feelings. I do not set out to. To me, it is all in the din and clang
> of battle. Once the battle gets going, that iz. And that part is your
> fault. Not mine. I hope you can understand this and I hope too that
> your kitty gets better, and I hope they punish the ever-loving dog-
> **** out of those kids, if kids really did in-fact do it, and for the
> reason of having their unacceptable, hurtful, cruel adolescent-based
> 'fun'. That being said....... Sai-ya-nada
>
> IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

why do you come to the newsgroups if all the people who post on it are
so annoying and irksome for you? why do you feel the need to punish
yourself by reading things that anger you so much? what is it you have
done in a previous life that makes you feel the need to hurt yourself
emotionally like this all the time?

why don't you just give yourself a break and don't log on to this
group if we all **** you off so much?

bookie

Matthew
April 3rd 07, 03:17 PM
"bookie" >

Bookie, If you are going to respond to them at least snip their BS so the
rest of us that have them kill filed don't have to read them. :-)

sheelagh
April 3rd 07, 03:39 PM
On 3 Apr, 14:32, "bookie" > wrote:
> On 3 Apr, 10:22, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 2, 5:53?pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > On 2 Apr, 19:44, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > > On Apr 2, 11:30?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > > > On 2 Apr, 01:21, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Apr 1, 9:21 am, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > snip>
>
> > > > > > > > Yes. I completely understand your anger. ShootingRingowas a cruel and
> > > > > > > > gratuitous act that resulted in a great deal of suffering for the animal
> > > > > > > > as well as grief and expense for your family. There is no excuse, and
> > > > > > > > the only mitigating factor is that he is recovering well from what could
> > > > > > > > have been a fatal attack. However, I tend to think this was probably the
> > > > > > > > work of teenaged boys run amok with obnoxious impulses they don't
> > > > > > > > understand well enough to control.
>
> > > > > > > Please don't be offended Charlie, but I think you're being naive.
>
> > > > > > Oh... IBen's a kook but Charlie here... He's just 'naive'... Uh,
> > > > > > huhhh..
>
> > > > > > > It seems
> > > > > > > that wife-abusers, child-beaters, mass murderers, almost invariably have a
> > > > > > > history of hurting animals in their youth.
>
> > > > > > ALL young boys go thru a stage of sadism. All. It's only the ones with
> > > > > > parents like YOU who end up being serial killers. Because you don't
> > > > > > see it for the temporal thing that it is. Instead, you make your kid
> > > > > > feel 'special' about himself. I'm not saying that it's right for a
> > > > > > young boy to do that. Only that all boys go thru it. Just like most go
> > > > > > thru a stealing phase. And almost all outgrow that as well. Are you
> > > > > > going to tell me that most of THEM are going to live a life of crime?
> > > > > > I myself could steal the stool out from under the 7/11 clerk when I
> > > > > > was 15, yet I have been a steadily employed taxpayer for longer than
> > > > > > you've probably been alive. It's parents like YOU who have screw up
> > > > > > the heads of our youth today... with all of your paranoid 'modern
> > > > > > sensibilities' and the like. Hell, we rarely IF EVER had the problem
> > > > > > of violence that today's youth seem to emulate and live for. And I
> > > > > > take that to be a direct reflection on obsessive nail-biting weird-O's
> > > > > > like YOU.
>
> > > > > I suppose you want a medal for that little performance too, do you?
> > > > > 7/11 was depraved, & for you to mock it makes you look worse than you
> > > > > already do, if that is possible
>
> > > > > >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > Why don't you just shut up.......
>
> > > >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > DITO!
> > > You call everyone here with patronising remarks, you treat women like
> > > filth, & the only thing that is important to you are your own
> > > thoughts.
>
> > A few of my many charms. But do continue...
>
> > > Never once have you stopped to consider whether your remarks are
> > > reasonable or whether they hurt others;it doesn't matter if they hurt,
> > > after all, it doesn't hurt you.
>
> > I say what I say. Ignore me or learn to live with it. That's my
> > advice. If you're smart, you'll take it.. But you won't.
>
> > > Your posts yesterday were more than derogatory regarding both myself
> > > and Ringo, my partner, "Mr Sheelagh", & my children are faggots too..
> > > but hey, that doesn't matter, old IBen has spoken, so get down on your
> > > knees, worship & be grateful....
>
> > I have said from the start that I felt Ringo didn't deserve the
> > retaliation that he took... I said it was you who deserved it. As far
> > as your 'partner'... does that mean you're a lesbian...? If so, I
> > think I can tell which is the 'husband' and which is the 'wife'.
> > LOL...!!
> > And yes, by all means... Get down on your knees and worship me. RIGHT
> > NOW.
>
> > > How would you feel if I did that to you?
>
> > You have. That's all you do. But no need to worry. I won't come
> > UNGLUED and whimper about it. You see... I'm not 'damaged goods'
> > around here, as many are.
>
> > > I think that you would find it offensive..we all do
>
> > Not true. Do your worst.
>
> > > Perhaps if you were to apologize to a few of the people who you
> > > patronised, they might be willing to listen to you, in the belief that
> > > you might actually can be reasonable....
>
> > Bull Krap. I have been hounded and criticized by certain high-and-
> > mighty pious-azzed members of this group ever since the wife and I
> > first posted here many years ago. My kat had a problem with excessive
> > grooming, you see. But all they did was rail me. And then the charges
> > of 'racism' began to fly... Not for anything that I had actually said
> > in here, you might know.. Bigots. Haters. That's all they are. And
> > they claim to love innocent things like cats....
> > But that's alright... That's okay. IKan take it. It doesn't hurt
> > anymore. I've taken it and bent it to my use. And now look at it...
> > Beautiful, don't you agree...?
>
> > > Until then, please feel free to leave the room.
> > > I believe if you go right back through this thread, You won't find a
> > > single person who you haven't either upset/made to feel stupid/ or
> > > ridiculed.
>
> > I only post MY OPINION. My "3 cents", as I like to call it. I call it
> > that because it is MY OPINION that MY OPINION is better than your
> > opinion. Or anybody else's, for that matter. So please... don't take
> > to so to heart. Don't you have enough confidence in your own belief
> > structure to stand tall on that and that alone? No matter what a rival
> > may say? This is prime proof that men are far superior to women when
> > it comes to keeping one's head about them. Especially while under
> > pressure....
>
> > > Why do expect respect if you don't have the humility to accept that
> > > you have wronged them?
>
> > For the thousandth time... I don't CARE if I receive your respect or
> > not. It doesn't mean diddley to me. My entire life has been built
> > around the task of forever weaning myself away from the approval of
> > others. That is why I now have self-worth and self-confidence. In
> > short, I am not for sale. Do we understand each other...? If so, then
> > hate away. I don't mind. Really .
>
> > > Because you have wronged them, every single one of them if you look
> > > deep enough. Take a few of your own comments to heart and question
> > > whether you are really here because of your love of cats, or simply
> > > here to hurt other peoples feeling's...
>
> > I NEVER seek to hurt another. Not until they ask for it. I voice MY
> > OPINION. Take it or LEAVE ME ALONE.
>
> > > What does an apology cost?
>
> > > Nothing but a bit of backbone and the self respect to admit that you
> > > are wrong.
>
> > A good point. If it were true. I'll have to take it under advisement..
>
> > > I am wrong all the time, but it doesn't stop me from holding my hands
> > > up when I am.
> > > I hope that you can.
>
> > What can I say to that.... I am sorry that I have apparently hurt your
> > feelings. I do not set out to. To me, it is all in the din and clang
> > of battle. Once the battle gets going, that iz. And that part is your
> > fault. Not mine. I hope you can understand this and I hope too that
> > your kitty gets better, and I hope they punish the ever-loving dog-
> > **** out of those kids, if kids really did in-fact do it, and for the
> > reason of having their unacceptable, hurtful, cruel adolescent-based
> > 'fun'. That being said....... Sai-ya-nada
>
> > IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> why do you come to the newsgroups if all the people who post on it are
> so annoying and irksome for you? why do you feel the need to punish
> yourself by reading things that anger you so much? what is it you have
> done in a previous life that makes you feel the need to hurt yourself
> emotionally like this all the time?
>
> why don't you just give yourself a break and don't log on to this
> group if we all **** you off so much?
>
> bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

> > Not true. Do your worst.
Why bother?

We already know why.
It's because he gets a kick out of self expression.

My bet is that he is actually a wimp in reality and that his wife
beats him with the carpet beater on a daily basis & send him to work
with a flea in his ear every morning, so this is the only opportunity
that he gets for self expression & to make himself feel "dominant"..

His weapons experience is based on a copy of Guns Monthly, & his cat
is actually a taxidermy stuffed one sat in the corner so that it
doesn't make the living room a mess..
His kids are transsexual & he hides the fact by accusing everyone of
doing or having what he considers as his own come to life nightmares..
Not to mention the fact that he tries on his wife's dresses when she
goes out, & he isn't allowed out unless he is accompanied. There,
simple really...

But I do agree with you Bookie,. If we **** him off so much, he should
take a break from us ( & Mrs sheelagh too of course. Paul was
delighted when he read that bit, lol)
you know **** All about me, so best stop with the disparaging remarks
Adolf Iben.

sheelagh
April 3rd 07, 04:30 PM
On 3 Apr, 15:17, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "bookie" >
>
> Bookie, If you are going to respond to them at least snip their BS so the
> rest of us that have them kill filed don't have to read them. :-)

Sorry about that Matthew. That was exactly how I got roped back into
this imbecile's rantings again.
I should have just allow the little twerp to twitter to himself.
sometimes it takes someone else to slap a reality check on you to
remember to ignore them.
I see little gain in arguing with someone who has no respect for
anyone other than himself..
S;o)

sheelagh
April 3rd 07, 05:33 PM
On 2 Apr, 22:55, "Dave Whiley" <[email protected]
whiley.WOSSNAMEfreeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
> > In the UK when you accept a caution it is admitting guilt, but you get
> > away with it without a true blemish on your record, and you don't have
> > have to attend court.
>
> If it helps at all, it is considered a conviction, as they might well find
> out if and when they apply for some jobs, or try to enter certain countries.
> Not much of a consolation, I know, but it's something.

It does help a little. I am fairly sure that in the future they will
have a need to have a clean record & it wil come back to haunt them.
However, I fear that in a few short years the slate will be scrubbed
clean..

( Is it true that after 5 years that you loose the tag as it were?)

> OTOH, if and when the RSPCA do get them in to court, expect that they
> "cannot be named for legal reasons".

I have a dreadful feeling that you could be right there. I wonder if
it stops me as a private citizen, telling you all about an experience
that I have been through and wish to relate the story with you though?
It annoys me that they can hide behind the anonymity.
I often wonder why they are allowed to remain anonymous, do you know?

> All the best for Ringo and the other surviving cats.

Thank you ;o)
Ringo is looking so much better than he did. You honestly wouldn't
have guessed what he has been through if it wasn't for the leg splint
and the shaved eye patch and stitches.

I am dreading them coming out because it looks like the skin is
crusting over them, so my guess is that it is going to sting like hell
when he takes those out!
1 of the cats is still quite poorly, but the other 2 are fine and back
home with their families now.

If you would like to see a picture of him, go to the front page and
look under "Sheelagh needs one of these", posted by Uncle charlie,
lol ;o)
As you will see, Ringo has a little brother called, Liger....
S;o)

Lis
April 3rd 07, 05:56 PM
On Apr 3, 12:33 pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 2 Apr, 22:55, "Dave Whiley" <[email protected]
>
> whiley.WOSSNAMEfreeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > "sheelagh" > wrote in message
> > > In the UK when you accept a caution it is admitting guilt, but you get
> > > away with it without a true blemish on your record, and you don't have
> > > have to attend court.
>
> > If it helps at all, it is considered a conviction, as they might well find
> > out if and when they apply for some jobs, or try to enter certain countries.
> > Not much of a consolation, I know, but it's something.
>
> It does help a little. I am fairly sure that in the future they will
> have a need to have a clean record & it wil come back to haunt them.
> However, I fear that in a few short years the slate will be scrubbed
> clean..
>
> ( Is it true that after 5 years that you loose the tag as it were?)
>
> > OTOH, if and when the RSPCA do get them in to court, expect that they
> > "cannot be named for legal reasons".
>
> I have a dreadful feeling that you could be right there. I wonder if
> it stops me as a private citizen, telling you all about an experience
> that I have been through and wish to relate the story with you though?
> It annoys me that they can hide behind the anonymity.
> I often wonder why they are allowed to remain anonymous, do you know?

Because of the presumption that minors are not yet fully responsible,
and their adult lives shouldn't be permanently marred by mistakes and
errors of judgment--even serious ones--that they made as kids. Very
often that presumption is correct; kids do amazingly stupid things
that, when they reach adult judgment and experience, they would never
dream of repeating.

It is, though, far less true of young people who commit serious abuse
against animals. THAT is usually a sign of something seriously wrong,
of a personality that's headed in the serial-killer direction.
Unfortunately, the law doesn't yet have an effective way of taking
note of the difference, in either your country or mine.

> > All the best for Ringo and the other surviving cats.
>
> Thank you ;o)
> Ringo is looking so much better than he did. You honestly wouldn't
> have guessed what he has been through if it wasn't for the leg splint
> and the shaved eye patch and stitches.
>
> I am dreading them coming out because it looks like the skin is
> crusting over them, so my guess is that it is going to sting like hell
> when he takes those out!
> 1 of the cats is still quite poorly, but the other 2 are fine and back
> home with their families now.

I hope they all recover completely.

> If you would like to see a picture of him, go to the front page and
> look under "Sheelagh needs one of these", posted by Uncle charlie,
> lol ;o)
> As you will see, Ringo has a little brother called, Liger....
> S;o)

Ringo's brother Liger is a handsome fella.:)

Lis

April 3rd 07, 06:00 PM
On 2 Apr, 16:23, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 2 Apr, 06:02, "cindys" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > > On Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:12:34 -0700, Barry wrote:
>
> > >> On Apr 1, 6:48 pm, "bookie" > wrote: t to make
> > >> song and dance about
> > >>> (I can see the headline now "do you want your child educated by this
> > >>> man who teaches his own kids to be gun-toting hooligans?"). The more
> > >>> **** the ...
>
> > >>> read more
>
> > >> That's a vain persuit, bah
>
> > >> **** them little asshole snots...
>
> > >> she can kick their asses on the down low
>
> > >> all you women are jackasses any way, you let your emotions rue
> > >> everything
>
> > And if someone shot Jupiter with a BB gun, how would you respond Barry?
>
> He would do the same as any other cat- caring person would..either
> beart the living day light out of them, or if he already has form for
> the same thing, then pay someone else to do the deed on his behalf. He
> certainly wouldn't take it lying down with pleasure...
>
>
>
> > > Now, what in the world would make you say that, Barry? These fine people
> > > merely have an elevated sense of justice, i.e., beating the crap out of
> > > 14 year old kids and ruining the careers of their parents.
>
> > I wasn't the one advocating ruining the parents' careers, but you really
> > don't think these kids deserve a beating for what they did ? I don't know
> > what's the law in England, but if they were adults and living in the USA,
> > they could easily end up spending a year in jail for animal abuse.
> > Yesterday, I was reading in our local paper about someone who had killed a
> > pygmy goat in a very unpleasant way. The police are putting a lot of effort
> > into finding the culprits. If they are found, I can guarantee they will be
> > looking at jail time. People who abuse/kill other people often began their
> > careers by tormenting small animals.
>
> Now personally, I would have no such qualms at all about ruining his
> career. But to understand my reasons, I would have to tell you what I
> know to help appreciate why I don't have any problems doing so.
>
> Recently, all of the 10-11year old's parents in our area, we given
> notification about where their children will be attending school this
> coming September. In our case, Tilly, our daughter(10yrs old), was
> given a placement @ a school 12 miles away, when we have a perfectly
> good school in our village. One of my main concerns about this
> placement was due to the fact that the this school( St Peters), has a
> terrible reputation, & I was terrified that that Tilly wouldn't be
> able to cope with the school and the students there. Tilly is an
> innocent child & not at all street savvy in the ways some 10 year old
> are. It was my worst nightmare come true-If she wasn't being pimped
> out by the time she was 12, she would probably be on crack, cocaine or
> heroin; or possibly all 3!!
>
> I spent weeks campaigning to ensure that she wasn't placed there, &
> quite by chance, My mother called me to tell me a story.
> A lady who lives next door but one to her, has a granddaughter that
> attends the same school too, where purely by chance, the father of one
> of the boys involved in the shooting incident is one of the maths
> teaches
> .
> A couple of months ago, the 11-12 year old were in a swimming lesson,
> when the maths teacher came in to to have a word with the PE teacher,
> so she told the kids to get out of the pool & to go and change for the
> next lesson. Having left the pool, 2boys thought it might be funny if
> they threw one of the girls into the pool, as young boys do..
> (girls tend to be bitchy, but they don't very often become entangled
> with this sort of incident)
> .. the particular girl that they were going for almost got as far as
> the changing room, before they grabbed her, dragged her back to the
> pool & dunked her head under the water until she stopped
> struggling..Realising what had happened, the 2 boys got out of the
> pool & only by sheer chance, the teachers returned to the room & found
> her floating head down in the water. She had to dive in and
> resuscitate her, whilst the maths teacher called the emergency
> services....!!!
> The boys denied the story to start with...Can you believe that..????
>
> You might find it interesting to know that one of the 2 boys involved
> in this incident, was the son of the maths teacher I mentioned, who
> told his son to confess to the shooting of the cats I told you about.
> They have 2 son's, one of them is 12 & the other is 14..
>
> The girl did recover, & most fortuitously, her father is a police
> sergeant. He placed a complaint to the school, then asked colleagues
> if they would look into the incident, & as a result, charges have been
> brought, & the younger son is facing a charge of ABH (Actual Bodily
> Harm.) Personally, I would have pushed for attempted murder, but there
> you are, that is the crime system for you over here..!
>
> Because of that very instance, I managed to get my daughter's
> placement changed to our local school which was over subscribed..
>
>
>
>
>
> > We once had some acquaintances whose son first killed his goldfish, then
> > killed his hamster and subsequently was abusive to the family dog. We saw
> > the child jumping on the dog and hitting the dog. The father said to the
> > kid: "Stop doing that because the dog might bite you." The father then went
> > on to say that when they got the dog, he was such a nice dog, and he
> > couldn't understand why the dog had been getting progressively nastier. On
> > another occasion, we saw the same child using a huge branch to damage
> > some one's car. Mutual friends would often say that the child was seriously
> > deranged and well on his way to being a psychopath. The child obviously had
> > some very serious mental issues, but the parents were treating this very
> > lightly. It was clear that they considered animals expendable and didn't
> > think their son had any problems.
>
> > When you see your son has killed deliberately killed his fish and his
> > hamster, you don't respond by getting him a dog on the basis that "the dog
> > can fight back." I don't know who was worse, the kid or the parents. But
> > both times I personally have known/witnessed a situation where a child was
> > being abusive to an animal, there was a parent who was well aware of the
> > behavior and didn't think it was a big deal.
>
> This is precisely my point too. I don't know how your laws work in the
> States, but over here, no other incident's are taken into
> consideration, & I think that they should be.
>
> The reason for this is so that when making consideration, the jury are
> not allowed to know what other charges have been brought in case it
> prejiduces the case.
> If one son is shooting cats, & the other son is accused of trying to
> drown a child, then I think that the jury has a right to know about
> these incidents before making considerations. I don't believe that the
> matters are unrelated at all. There is a fundamental problem with this
> family, & they all need therapy...
>
> > I'm sorry but people like this are disgusting, and I have absolutely zero
> > sympathy for them. No, I won't go so far as to say that someone should shoot
> > a BB gun into the kid's heart, like he did to poor Wizard (the cat who was
> > killed), but if someone decided to give these boys a well-deserved beating,
> > I certainly wouldn't be losing any sleep over it.
> > Best regards,
> > ---Cindy S.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I agree with you Cindy!
>
> Knowing this, perhaps you can understand our scepticism last night
> when they came to apologise about the shooting of Ringo.
> As you point out, in Wizards case, it was utterly futile.
> With regard to compensation, I believe the family are having to pay
> ALL OF US 40 per week, so when you consider that there are 5 people
> affected, that is a lot of overtime in mothers case, because father is
> salaried. Wizards slaves have been offered 250, but I think believe
> they are not accepting the money and bringing a private prosecution
> against the familly.
> So there are 4 of us receiving a total of 160 per week from them..
>
> (close to $280) It may not seem like much to some of you, but to us,
> it is a lot of money)
> And they still have to face Wizards family regarding compensation too.
>
> And the local grapevine tells us that the family have had to borrow
> the money to ensure that they don't default with payment.. because if
> they do, it is not just a court appearance that they face, I think it
> is the fathers job @ risk too!!
>
> What school wants it known that the maths teachers kids are hoodlums.
> The child has since been excluded from the school & is now attending
> some scheme that the government sets up for misfits, so that when they
> leave school, @ least they will be able to write their own names..&
> the government have fulfilled their duty to educate them too.
> NO ONE Knows what a handicap better than I do.....
> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I am really pleased to hear that you caught the little [email protected] in the
end.
I thought you might do after I saw your post about offering a reward.

These kids should be beaten by their father rather than told not to
worry whilst wasting their savings and reputations trying to get them
out of trouble..
If he gave them a thrashing that it seems obvious that they wouldn't
expect, then the chances are it might shock them into believing that
this has to stop right here and right now.

I'm not sure that I blame the parent for what the child does, but I
certainly wouldn't support them by condoning it and paying costs for
them.
Were I in their position, I would have marched them straight round to
each family & told them that their services would be @ at their
disposal for the foreseeable future should they need any menial labour
& cat litters cleaning out.

If that is not acceptable then I would have made them volunteer at a
local rescue centre and made it clear that they would be available for
at least the coming year every single weekend on both Saturday and
Sundays too.
K

Matthew
April 3rd 07, 07:28 PM
"sheelagh" >

I know how it is I used to troll hunt. I can drive them mad as a hatter. I
have irritated I bend over many of times but it gets boring after awhile
when they can't come up with anything original. I bend over doesn't even
rank as a troll he made it to being a poor pathetic joke that you can't help
but laugh at. Step back Take a look at what he writes can you imagine his
pathetic life. Now if that don't make you ROFLMAO I don't know what will.

I kill filed him awhile ago if he came up with something original or
interesting than maybe I would mess with him again but it got to the point I
was laughing so hard when I read his responses picturing him pounding a
response back being so ****ed off. I had to stop I was going to need a new
key board every day. ;-)

Matthew
April 3rd 07, 07:29 PM
"Nomen Nescio" >


Nomen you must be bored you usually don't even bother with him

IBen Getiner
April 3rd 07, 10:03 PM
On Apr 3, 12:50?pm, Nomen Nescio > wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> From: "IBen Getiner" >
>
> >Put up the link. Directly to the story, if you please. Otherwise, I'll
> >just have to assume that you made them all up.
>
> Assume whatever you want. You always do, anyway.
>


<snip LIES spent in vain attempt to cover up FORGERIES>

You brought these so-called 'cases' in to debunk my statement, Norman.
If you can't back their authenticity with a source, then they aren't
worth the electrical impulses that it takes to put them up on my
screen. This is common practice in discussion room debate between two
people of opposing viewpoints.
In the future, your 'claims' will be IGNORED unless you post unbiased
and balanced sources. And don't look to those you challenge to do the
footwork. They are your claims and it is you who stands to benefit
from them. Not the other guy.. Only a dishonest person attempts to
pass unverifiable info off as fact.
My original statement concerning guns and women stands.


IBen Getiner

IBen Getiner
April 3rd 07, 10:20 PM
On Apr 3, 9:32?am, "bookie" > wrote:
> On 3 Apr, 10:22, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 2, 5:53?pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > On 2 Apr, 19:44, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > > On Apr 2, 11:30?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > > > On 2 Apr, 01:21, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Apr 1, 9:21 am, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > snip>
>
> > > > > > > > Yes. I completely understand your anger. ShootingRingowas a cruel and
> > > > > > > > gratuitous act that resulted in a great deal of suffering for the animal
> > > > > > > > as well as grief and expense for your family. There is no excuse, and
> > > > > > > > the only mitigating factor is that he is recovering well from what could
> > > > > > > > have been a fatal attack. However, I tend to think this was probably the
> > > > > > > > work of teenaged boys run amok with obnoxious impulses they don't
> > > > > > > > understand well enough to control.
>
> > > > > > > Please don't be offended Charlie, but I think you're being naive.
>
> > > > > > Oh... IBen's a kook but Charlie here... He's just 'naive'... Uh,
> > > > > > huhhh..
>
> > > > > > > It seems
> > > > > > > that wife-abusers, child-beaters, mass murderers, almost invariably have a
> > > > > > > history of hurting animals in their youth.
>
> > > > > > ALL young boys go thru a stage of sadism. All. It's only the ones with
> > > > > > parents like YOU who end up being serial killers. Because you don't
> > > > > > see it for the temporal thing that it is. Instead, you make your kid
> > > > > > feel 'special' about himself. I'm not saying that it's right for a
> > > > > > young boy to do that. Only that all boys go thru it. Just like most go
> > > > > > thru a stealing phase. And almost all outgrow that as well. Are you
> > > > > > going to tell me that most of THEM are going to live a life of crime?
> > > > > > I myself could steal the stool out from under the 7/11 clerk when I
> > > > > > was 15, yet I have been a steadily employed taxpayer for longer than
> > > > > > you've probably been alive. It's parents like YOU who have screw up
> > > > > > the heads of our youth today... with all of your paranoid 'modern
> > > > > > sensibilities' and the like. Hell, we rarely IF EVER had the problem
> > > > > > of violence that today's youth seem to emulate and live for. And I
> > > > > > take that to be a direct reflection on obsessive nail-biting weird-O's
> > > > > > like YOU.
>
> > > > > I suppose you want a medal for that little performance too, do you?
> > > > > 7/11 was depraved, & for you to mock it makes you look worse than you
> > > > > already do, if that is possible
>
> > > > > >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > Why don't you just shut up.......
>
> > > >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > DITO!
> > > You call everyone here with patronising remarks, you treat women like
> > > filth, & the only thing that is important to you are your own
> > > thoughts.
>
> > A few of my many charms. But do continue...
>
> > > Never once have you stopped to consider whether your remarks are
> > > reasonable or whether they hurt others;it doesn't matter if they hurt,
> > > after all, it doesn't hurt you.
>
> > I say what I say. Ignore me or learn to live with it. That's my
> > advice. If you're smart, you'll take it.. But you won't.
>
> > > Your posts yesterday were more than derogatory regarding both myself
> > > and Ringo, my partner, "Mr Sheelagh", & my children are faggots too..
> > > but hey, that doesn't matter, old IBen has spoken, so get down on your
> > > knees, worship & be grateful....
>
> > I have said from the start that I felt Ringo didn't deserve the
> > retaliation that he took... I said it was you who deserved it. As far
> > as your 'partner'... does that mean you're a lesbian...? If so, I
> > think I can tell which is the 'husband' and which is the 'wife'.
> > LOL...!!
> > And yes, by all means... Get down on your knees and worship me. RIGHT
> > NOW.
>
> > > How would you feel if I did that to you?
>
> > You have. That's all you do. But no need to worry. I won't come
> > UNGLUED and whimper about it. You see... I'm not 'damaged goods'
> > around here, as many are.
>
> > > I think that you would find it offensive..we all do
>
> > Not true. Do your worst.
>
> > > Perhaps if you were to apologize to a few of the people who you
> > > patronised, they might be willing to listen to you, in the belief that
> > > you might actually can be reasonable....
>
> > Bull Krap. I have been hounded and criticized by certain high-and-
> > mighty pious-azzed members of this group ever since the wife and I
> > first posted here many years ago. My kat had a problem with excessive
> > grooming, you see. But all they did was rail me. And then the charges
> > of 'racism' began to fly... Not for anything that I had actually said
> > in here, you might know.. Bigots. Haters. That's all they are. And
> > they claim to love innocent things like cats....
> > But that's alright... That's okay. IKan take it. It doesn't hurt
> > anymore. I've taken it and bent it to my use. And now look at it...
> > Beautiful, don't you agree...?
>
> > > Until then, please feel free to leave the room.
> > > I believe if you go right back through this thread, You won't find a
> > > single person who you haven't either upset/made to feel stupid/ or
> > > ridiculed.
>
> > I only post MY OPINION. My "3 cents", as I like to call it. I call it
> > that because it is MY OPINION that MY OPINION is better than your
> > opinion. Or anybody else's, for that matter. So please... don't take
> > to so to heart. Don't you have enough confidence in your own belief
> > structure to stand tall on that and that alone? No matter what a rival
> > may say? This is prime proof that men are far superior to women when
> > it comes to keeping one's head about them. Especially while under
> > pressure....
>
> > > Why do expect respect if you don't have the humility to accept that
> > > you have wronged them?
>
> > For the thousandth time... I don't CARE if I receive your respect or
> > not. It doesn't mean diddley to me. My entire life has been built
> > around the task of forever weaning myself away from the approval of
> > others. That is why I now have self-worth and self-confidence. In
> > short, I am not for sale. Do we understand each other...? If so, then
> > hate away. I don't mind. Really .
>
> > > Because you have wronged them, every single one of them if you look
> > > deep enough. Take a few of your own comments to heart and question
> > > whether you are really here because of your love of cats, or simply
> > > here to hurt other peoples feeling's...
>
> > I NEVER seek to hurt another. Not until they ask for it. I voice MY
> > OPINION. Take it or LEAVE ME ALONE.
>
> > > What does an apology cost?
>
> > > Nothing but a bit of backbone and the self respect to admit that you
> > > are wrong.
>
> > A good point. If it were true. I'll have to take it under advisement..
>
> > > I am wrong all the time, but it doesn't stop me from holding my hands
> > > up when I am.
> > > I hope that you can.
>
> > What can I say to that.... I am sorry that I have apparently hurt your
> > feelings. I do not set out to. To me, it is all in the din and clang
> > of battle. Once the battle gets going, that iz. And that part is your
> > fault. Not mine. I hope you can understand this and I hope too that
> > your kitty gets better, and I hope they punish the ever-loving dog-
> > **** out of those kids, if kids really did in-fact do it, and for the
> > reason of having their unacceptable, hurtful, cruel adolescent-based
> > 'fun'. That being said....... Sai-ya-nada
>
> >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> why do you come to the newsgroups if all the people who post on it are
> so annoying and irksome for you?

See.... That's the thing.. It is THEY who are apparently annoyed be
ME. But to me, this is everyday life, so I don't see your point. I am
quite happy here. You are the unhappy one. Otherwise, you wouldn't
even be posting this simple-minded trash.

If you don't like what I post, then DON'T RESPOND. Better yet, just
don't read it to start with. Then you won't be guilty of starting
trouble all the time.

> why do you feel the need to punish
> yourself by reading things that anger you so much?
>

Why do you...?

> what is it you have
> done in a previous life
>

There was no previous life. Jehovah God said so.

> that makes you feel the need to hurt yourself
> emotionally like this all the time?
>

But my dear... You're the one singing the blues..!


> why don't you just give yourself a break and don't log on to this
> group if we all **** you off so much?
>

Because I have high hopes that one day all you rotten people will get
****ed off and leave. And I bet I'm barking up the right tree, too.
You know how I know...? Because I've seen it all go down before.



IBen Getiner

IBen Getiner
April 3rd 07, 10:25 PM
On Apr 3, 10:39?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 3 Apr, 14:32, "bookie" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 3 Apr, 10:22, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 2, 5:53?pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > > On 2 Apr, 19:44, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Apr 2, 11:30?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On 2 Apr, 01:21, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Apr 1, 9:21 am, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > snip>
>
> > > > > > > > > Yes. I completely understand your anger. ShootingRingowas a cruel and
> > > > > > > > > gratuitous act that resulted in a great deal of suffering for the animal
> > > > > > > > > as well as grief and expense for your family. There is no excuse, and
> > > > > > > > > the only mitigating factor is that he is recovering well from what could
> > > > > > > > > have been a fatal attack. However, I tend to think this was probably the
> > > > > > > > > work of teenaged boys run amok with obnoxious impulses they don't
> > > > > > > > > understand well enough to control.
>
> > > > > > > > Please don't be offended Charlie, but I think you're being naive.
>
> > > > > > > Oh... IBen's a kook but Charlie here... He's just 'naive'... Uh,
> > > > > > > huhhh..
>
> > > > > > > > It seems
> > > > > > > > that wife-abusers, child-beaters, mass murderers, almost invariably have a
> > > > > > > > history of hurting animals in their youth.
>
> > > > > > > ALL young boys go thru a stage of sadism. All. It's only the ones with
> > > > > > > parents like YOU who end up being serial killers. Because you don't
> > > > > > > see it for the temporal thing that it is. Instead, you make your kid
> > > > > > > feel 'special' about himself. I'm not saying that it's right for a
> > > > > > > young boy to do that. Only that all boys go thru it. Just like most go
> > > > > > > thru a stealing phase. And almost all outgrow that as well. Are you
> > > > > > > going to tell me that most of THEM are going to live a life of crime?
> > > > > > > I myself could steal the stool out from under the 7/11 clerk when I
> > > > > > > was 15, yet I have been a steadily employed taxpayer for longer than
> > > > > > > you've probably been alive. It's parents like YOU who have screw up
> > > > > > > the heads of our youth today... with all of your paranoid 'modern
> > > > > > > sensibilities' and the like. Hell, we rarely IF EVER had the problem
> > > > > > > of violence that today's youth seem to emulate and live for. And I
> > > > > > > take that to be a direct reflection on obsessive nail-biting weird-O's
> > > > > > > like YOU.
>
> > > > > > I suppose you want a medal for that little performance too, do you?
> > > > > > 7/11 was depraved, & for you to mock it makes you look worse than you
> > > > > > already do, if that is possible
>
> > > > > > >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > Why don't you just shut up.......
>
> > > > >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > DITO!
> > > > You call everyone here with patronising remarks, you treat women like
> > > > filth, & the only thing that is important to you are your own
> > > > thoughts.
>
> > > A few of my many charms. But do continue...
>
> > > > Never once have you stopped to consider whether your remarks are
> > > > reasonable or whether they hurt others;it doesn't matter if they hurt,
> > > > after all, it doesn't hurt you.
>
> > > I say what I say. Ignore me or learn to live with it. That's my
> > > advice. If you're smart, you'll take it.. But you won't.
>
> > > > Your posts yesterday were more than derogatory regarding both myself
> > > > and Ringo, my partner, "Mr Sheelagh", & my children are faggots too..
> > > > but hey, that doesn't matter, old IBen has spoken, so get down on your
> > > > knees, worship & be grateful....
>
> > > I have said from the start that I felt Ringo didn't deserve the
> > > retaliation that he took... I said it was you who deserved it. As far
> > > as your 'partner'... does that mean you're a lesbian...? If so, I
> > > think I can tell which is the 'husband' and which is the 'wife'.
> > > LOL...!!
> > > And yes, by all means... Get down on your knees and worship me. RIGHT
> > > NOW.
>
> > > > How would you feel if I did that to you?
>
> > > You have. That's all you do. But no need to worry. I won't come
> > > UNGLUED and whimper about it. You see... I'm not 'damaged goods'
> > > around here, as many are.
>
> > > > I think that you would find it offensive..we all do
>
> > > Not true. Do your worst.
>
> > > > Perhaps if you were to apologize to a few of the people who you
> > > > patronised, they might be willing to listen to you, in the belief that
> > > > you might actually can be reasonable....
>
> > > Bull Krap. I have been hounded and criticized by certain high-and-
> > > mighty pious-azzed members of this group ever since the wife and I
> > > first posted here many years ago. My kat had a problem with excessive
> > > grooming, you see. But all they did was rail me. And then the charges
> > > of 'racism' began to fly... Not for anything that I had actually said
> > > in here, you might know.. Bigots. Haters. That's all they are. And
> > > they claim to love innocent things like cats....
> > > But that's alright... That's okay. IKan take it. It doesn't hurt
> > > anymore. I've taken it and bent it to my use. And now look at it...
> > > Beautiful, don't you agree...?
>
> > > > Until then, please feel free to leave the room.
> > > > I believe if you go right back through this thread, You won't find a
> > > > single person who you haven't either upset/made to feel stupid/ or
> > > > ridiculed.
>
> > > I only post MY OPINION. My "3 cents", as I like to call it. I call it
> > > that because it is MY OPINION that MY OPINION is better than your
> > > opinion. Or anybody else's, for that matter. So please... don't take
> > > to so to heart. Don't you have enough confidence in your own belief
> > > structure to stand tall on that and that alone? No matter what a rival
> > > may say? This is prime proof that men are far superior to women when
> > > it comes to keeping one's head about them. Especially while under
> > > pressure....
>
> > > > Why do expect respect if you don't have the humility to accept that
> > > > you have wronged them?
>
> > > For the thousandth time... I don't CARE if I receive your respect or
> > > not. It doesn't mean diddley to me. My entire life has been built
> > > around the task of forever weaning myself away from the approval of
> > > others. That is why I now have self-worth and self-confidence. In
> > > short, I am not for sale. Do we understand each other...? If so, then
> > > hate away. I don't mind. Really .
>
> > > > Because you have wronged them, every single one of them if you look
> > > > deep enough. Take a few of your own comments to heart and question
> > > > whether you are really here because of your love of cats, or simply
> > > > here to hurt other peoples feeling's...
>
> > > I NEVER seek to hurt another. Not until they ask for it. I voice MY
> > > OPINION. Take it or LEAVE ME ALONE.
>
> > > > What does an apology cost?
>
> > > > Nothing but a bit of backbone and the self respect to admit that you
> > > > are wrong.
>
> > > A good point. If it were true. I'll have to take it under advisement..
>
> > > > I am wrong all the time, but it doesn't stop me from holding my hands
> > > > up when I am.
> > > > I hope that you can.
>
> > > What can I say to that.... I am sorry that I have apparently hurt your
> > > feelings. I do not set out to. To me, it is all in the din and clang
> > > of battle. Once the battle gets going, that iz. And that part is your
> > > fault. Not mine. I hope you can understand this and I hope too that
> > > your kitty gets better, and I hope they punish the ever-loving dog-
> > > **** out of those kids, if kids really did in-fact do it, and for the
> > > reason of having their unacceptable, hurtful, cruel adolescent-based
> > > 'fun'. That being said....... Sai-ya-nada
>
> > >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > why do you come to the newsgroups if all the people who post on it are
> > so annoying and irksome for you? why do you feel the need to punish
> > yourself by reading things that anger you so much? what is it you have
> > done in a previous life that makes you feel the need to hurt yourself
> > emotionally like this all the time?
>
> > why don't you just give yourself a break and don't log on to this
> > group if we all **** you off so much?
>
> > bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
> > > Not true. Do your worst.
>
> Why bother?
>
> We already know why.
> It's because he gets a kick out of self expression.
>
> My bet is that he is actually a wimp in reality and that his wife
> beats him with the carpet beater on a daily basis & send him to work
> with a flea in his ear every morning, so this is the only opportunity
> that he gets for self expression & to make himself feel "dominant"..
>
> His weapons experience is based on a copy of Guns Monthly, & his cat
> is actually a taxidermy stuffed one sat in the corner so that it
> doesn't make the living room a mess..
> His kids are transsexual & he hides the fact by accusing everyone of
> doing or having what he considers as his own come to life nightmares..
> Not to mention the fact that he tries on his wife's dresses when she
> goes out, & he isn't allowed out unless he is accompanied. There,
> simple really...
>
> But I do agree with you Bookie,. If we **** him off so much, he should
> take a break from us ( & Mrs sheelagh too of course. Paul was
> delighted when he read that bit, lol)
> you know **** All about me, so best stop with the disparaging remarks
> Adolf Iben.- Hide quoted text -
> ng
> - Show quoted text -

Then hate away. I don't mind. Really


IBen Getiner

IBen Getiner
April 3rd 07, 10:29 PM
On Apr 3, 9:32?am, "bookie" > wrote:
> On 3 Apr, 10:22, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 2, 5:53?pm, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > On 2 Apr, 19:44, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > > On Apr 2, 11:30?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > > > On 2 Apr, 01:21, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Apr 1, 9:21 am, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > snip>
>
> > > > > > > > Yes. I completely understand your anger. ShootingRingowas a cruel and
> > > > > > > > gratuitous act that resulted in a great deal of suffering for the animal
> > > > > > > > as well as grief and expense for your family. There is no excuse, and
> > > > > > > > the only mitigating factor is that he is recovering well from what could
> > > > > > > > have been a fatal attack. However, I tend to think this was probably the
> > > > > > > > work of teenaged boys run amok with obnoxious impulses they don't
> > > > > > > > understand well enough to control.
>
> > > > > > > Please don't be offended Charlie, but I think you're being naive.
>
> > > > > > Oh... IBen's a kook but Charlie here... He's just 'naive'... Uh,
> > > > > > huhhh..
>
> > > > > > > It seems
> > > > > > > that wife-abusers, child-beaters, mass murderers, almost invariably have a
> > > > > > > history of hurting animals in their youth.
>
> > > > > > ALL young boys go thru a stage of sadism. All. It's only the ones with
> > > > > > parents like YOU who end up being serial killers. Because you don't
> > > > > > see it for the temporal thing that it is. Instead, you make your kid
> > > > > > feel 'special' about himself. I'm not saying that it's right for a
> > > > > > young boy to do that. Only that all boys go thru it. Just like most go
> > > > > > thru a stealing phase. And almost all outgrow that as well. Are you
> > > > > > going to tell me that most of THEM are going to live a life of crime?
> > > > > > I myself could steal the stool out from under the 7/11 clerk when I
> > > > > > was 15, yet I have been a steadily employed taxpayer for longer than
> > > > > > you've probably been alive. It's parents like YOU who have screw up
> > > > > > the heads of our youth today... with all of your paranoid 'modern
> > > > > > sensibilities' and the like. Hell, we rarely IF EVER had the problem
> > > > > > of violence that today's youth seem to emulate and live for. And I
> > > > > > take that to be a direct reflection on obsessive nail-biting weird-O's
> > > > > > like YOU.
>
> > > > > I suppose you want a medal for that little performance too, do you?
> > > > > 7/11 was depraved, & for you to mock it makes you look worse than you
> > > > > already do, if that is possible
>
> > > > > >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > Why don't you just shut up.......
>
> > > >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > DITO!
> > > You call everyone here with patronising remarks, you treat women like
> > > filth, & the only thing that is important to you are your own
> > > thoughts.
>
> > A few of my many charms. But do continue...
>
> > > Never once have you stopped to consider whether your remarks are
> > > reasonable or whether they hurt others;it doesn't matter if they hurt,
> > > after all, it doesn't hurt you.
>
> > I say what I say. Ignore me or learn to live with it. That's my
> > advice. If you're smart, you'll take it.. But you won't.
>
> > > Your posts yesterday were more than derogatory regarding both myself
> > > and Ringo, my partner, "Mr Sheelagh", & my children are faggots too..
> > > but hey, that doesn't matter, old IBen has spoken, so get down on your
> > > knees, worship & be grateful....
>
> > I have said from the start that I felt Ringo didn't deserve the
> > retaliation that he took... I said it was you who deserved it. As far
> > as your 'partner'... does that mean you're a lesbian...? If so, I
> > think I can tell which is the 'husband' and which is the 'wife'.
> > LOL...!!
> > And yes, by all means... Get down on your knees and worship me. RIGHT
> > NOW.
>
> > > How would you feel if I did that to you?
>
> > You have. That's all you do. But no need to worry. I won't come
> > UNGLUED and whimper about it. You see... I'm not 'damaged goods'
> > around here, as many are.
>
> > > I think that you would find it offensive..we all do
>
> > Not true. Do your worst.
>
> > > Perhaps if you were to apologize to a few of the people who you
> > > patronised, they might be willing to listen to you, in the belief that
> > > you might actually can be reasonable....
>
> > Bull Krap. I have been hounded and criticized by certain high-and-
> > mighty pious-azzed members of this group ever since the wife and I
> > first posted here many years ago. My kat had a problem with excessive
> > grooming, you see. But all they did was rail me. And then the charges
> > of 'racism' began to fly... Not for anything that I had actually said
> > in here, you might know.. Bigots. Haters. That's all they are. And
> > they claim to love innocent things like cats....
> > But that's alright... That's okay. IKan take it. It doesn't hurt
> > anymore. I've taken it and bent it to my use. And now look at it...
> > Beautiful, don't you agree...?
>
> > > Until then, please feel free to leave the room.
> > > I believe if you go right back through this thread, You won't find a
> > > single person who you haven't either upset/made to feel stupid/ or
> > > ridiculed.
>
> > I only post MY OPINION. My "3 cents", as I like to call it. I call it
> > that because it is MY OPINION that MY OPINION is better than your
> > opinion. Or anybody else's, for that matter. So please... don't take
> > to so to heart. Don't you have enough confidence in your own belief
> > structure to stand tall on that and that alone? No matter what a rival
> > may say? This is prime proof that men are far superior to women when
> > it comes to keeping one's head about them. Especially while under
> > pressure....
>
> > > Why do expect respect if you don't have the humility to accept that
> > > you have wronged them?
>
> > For the thousandth time... I don't CARE if I receive your respect or
> > not. It doesn't mean diddley to me. My entire life has been built
> > around the task of forever weaning myself away from the approval of
> > others. That is why I now have self-worth and self-confidence. In
> > short, I am not for sale. Do we understand each other...? If so, then
> > hate away. I don't mind. Really .
>
> > > Because you have wronged them, every single one of them if you look
> > > deep enough. Take a few of your own comments to heart and question
> > > whether you are really here because of your love of cats, or simply
> > > here to hurt other peoples feeling's...
>
> > I NEVER seek to hurt another. Not until they ask for it. I voice MY
> > OPINION. Take it or LEAVE ME ALONE.
>
> > > What does an apology cost?
>
> > > Nothing but a bit of backbone and the self respect to admit that you
> > > are wrong.
>
> > A good point. If it were true. I'll have to take it under advisement..
>
> > > I am wrong all the time, but it doesn't stop me from holding my hands
> > > up when I am.
> > > I hope that you can.
>
> > What can I say to that.... I am sorry that I have apparently hurt your
> > feelings. I do not set out to. To me, it is all in the din and clang
> > of battle. Once the battle gets going, that iz. And that part is your
> > fault. Not mine. I hope you can understand this and I hope too that
> > your kitty gets better, and I hope they punish the ever-loving dog-
> > **** out of those kids, if kids really did in-fact do it, and for the
> > reason of having their unacceptable, hurtful, cruel adolescent-based
> > 'fun'. That being said....... Sai-ya-nada
>
> >IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
See.... That's the thing.. It is THEY who are apparently annoyed by
ME. But to me, this is everyday life, so I don't see your point. I am
quite happy here. You are the unhappy one. Otherwise, you wouldn't
even be posting this simple-minded trash.

If you don't like what I post, then DON'T RESPOND. Better yet, just
don't read it to start with. Then you won't be guilty of starting
trouble all the time.



> why do you feel the need to punish
> yourself by reading things that anger you so much?


Why do you...?


> what is it you have
> done in a previous life


There was no previous life. Jehovah God said so.


> that makes you feel the need to hurt yourself
> emotionally like this all the time?


But my dear... You're the one singing the blues..!


> why don't you just give yourself a break and don't log on to this
> group if we all **** you off so much?


Because I have high hopes that one day all you rotten people will get
****ed off and leave. And I bet I'm barking up the right tree, too.
You know how I know...? Because I've seen it all go down before.


IBen Getiner

bookie
April 4th 07, 03:01 AM
On 3 Apr, 18:00, wrote:
> On 2 Apr, 16:23, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2 Apr, 06:02, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> > ...
>
> > > > On Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:12:34 -0700, Barry wrote:
>
> > > >> On Apr 1, 6:48 pm, "bookie" > wrote: t to make
> > > >> song and dance about
> > > >>> (I can see the headline now "do you want your child educated by this
> > > >>> man who teaches his own kids to be gun-toting hooligans?"). The more
> > > >>> **** the ...
>
> > > >>> read more
>
> > > >> That's a vain persuit, bah
>
> > > >> **** them little asshole snots...
>
> > > >> she can kick their asses on the down low
>
> > > >> all you women are jackasses any way, you let your emotions rue
> > > >> everything
>
> > > And if someone shot Jupiter with a BB gun, how would you respond Barry?
>
> > He would do the same as any other cat- caring person would..either
> > beart the living day light out of them, or if he already has form for
> > the same thing, then pay someone else to do the deed on his behalf. He
> > certainly wouldn't take it lying down with pleasure...
>
> > > > Now, what in the world would make you say that, Barry? These fine people
> > > > merely have an elevated sense of justice, i.e., beating the crap out of
> > > > 14 year old kids and ruining the careers of their parents.
>
> > > I wasn't the one advocating ruining the parents' careers, but you really
> > > don't think these kids deserve a beating for what they did ? I don't know
> > > what's the law in England, but if they were adults and living in the USA,
> > > they could easily end up spending a year in jail for animal abuse.
> > > Yesterday, I was reading in our local paper about someone who had killed a
> > > pygmy goat in a very unpleasant way. The police are putting a lot of effort
> > > into finding the culprits. If they are found, I can guarantee they will be
> > > looking at jail time. People who abuse/kill other people often began their
> > > careers by tormenting small animals.
>
> > Now personally, I would have no such qualms at all about ruining his
> > career. But to understand my reasons, I would have to tell you what I
> > know to help appreciate why I don't have any problems doing so.
>
> > Recently, all of the 10-11year old's parents in our area, we given
> > notification about where their children will be attending school this
> > coming September. In our case, Tilly, our daughter(10yrs old), was
> > given a placement @ a school 12 miles away, when we have a perfectly
> > good school in our village. One of my main concerns about this
> > placement was due to the fact that the this school( St Peters), has a
> > terrible reputation, & I was terrified that that Tilly wouldn't be
> > able to cope with the school and the students there. Tilly is an
> > innocent child & not at all street savvy in the ways some 10 year old
> > are. It was my worst nightmare come true-If she wasn't being pimped
> > out by the time she was 12, she would probably be on crack, cocaine or
> > heroin; or possibly all 3!!
>
> > I spent weeks campaigning to ensure that she wasn't placed there, &
> > quite by chance, My mother called me to tell me a story.
> > A lady who lives next door but one to her, has a granddaughter that
> > attends the same school too, where purely by chance, the father of one
> > of the boys involved in the shooting incident is one of the maths
> > teaches
> > .
> > A couple of months ago, the 11-12 year old were in a swimming lesson,
> > when the maths teacher came in to to have a word with the PE teacher,
> > so she told the kids to get out of the pool & to go and change for the
> > next lesson. Having left the pool, 2boys thought it might be funny if
> > they threw one of the girls into the pool, as young boys do..
> > (girls tend to be bitchy, but they don't very often become entangled
> > with this sort of incident)
> > .. the particular girl that they were going for almost got as far as
> > the changing room, before they grabbed her, dragged her back to the
> > pool & dunked her head under the water until she stopped
> > struggling..Realising what had happened, the 2 boys got out of the
> > pool & only by sheer chance, the teachers returned to the room & found
> > her floating head down in the water. She had to dive in and
> > resuscitate her, whilst the maths teacher called the emergency
> > services....!!!
> > The boys denied the story to start with...Can you believe that..????
>
> > You might find it interesting to know that one of the 2 boys involved
> > in this incident, was the son of the maths teacher I mentioned, who
> > told his son to confess to the shooting of the cats I told you about.
> > They have 2 son's, one of them is 12 & the other is 14..
>
> > The girl did recover, & most fortuitously, her father is a police
> > sergeant. He placed a complaint to the school, then asked colleagues
> > if they would look into the incident, & as a result, charges have been
> > brought, & the younger son is facing a charge of ABH (Actual Bodily
> > Harm.) Personally, I would have pushed for attempted murder, but there
> > you are, that is the crime system for you over here..!
>
> > Because of that very instance, I managed to get my daughter's
> > placement changed to our local school which was over subscribed..
>
> > > We once had some acquaintances whose son first killed his goldfish, then
> > > killed his hamster and subsequently was abusive to the family dog. We saw
> > > the child jumping on the dog and hitting the dog. The father said to the
> > > kid: "Stop doing that because the dog might bite you." The father then went
> > > on to say that when they got the dog, he was such a nice dog, and he
> > > couldn't understand why the dog had been getting progressively nastier. On
> > > another occasion, we saw the same child using a huge branch to damage
> > > some one's car. Mutual friends would often say that the child was seriously
> > > deranged and well on his way to being a psychopath. The child obviously had
> > > some very serious mental issues, but the parents were treating this very
> > > lightly. It was clear that they considered animals expendable and didn't
> > > think their son had any problems.
>
> > > When you see your son has killed deliberately killed his fish and his
> > > hamster, you don't respond by getting him a dog on the basis that "the dog
> > > can fight back." I don't know who was worse, the kid or the parents. But
> > > both times I personally have known/witnessed a situation where a child was
> > > being abusive to an animal, there was a parent who was well aware of the
> > > behavior and didn't think it was a big deal.
>
> > This is precisely my point too. I don't know how your laws work in the
> > States, but over here, no other incident's are taken into
> > consideration, & I think that they should be.
>
> > The reason for this is so that when making consideration, the jury are
> > not allowed to know what other charges have been brought in case it
> > prejiduces the case.
> > If one son is shooting cats, & the other son is accused of trying to
> > drown a child, then I think that the jury has a right to know about
> > these incidents before making considerations. I don't believe that the
> > matters are unrelated at all. There is a fundamental problem with this
> > family, & they all need therapy...
>
> > > I'm sorry but people like this are disgusting, and I have absolutely zero
> > > sympathy for them. No, I won't go so far as to say that someone should shoot
> > > a BB gun into the kid's heart, like he did to poor Wizard (the cat who was
> > > killed), but if someone decided to give these boys a well-deserved beating,
> > > I certainly wouldn't be losing any sleep over it.
> > > Best regards,
> > > ---Cindy S.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I agree with you Cindy!
>
> > Knowing this, perhaps you can understand our scepticism last night
> > when they came to apologise about the shooting of Ringo.
> > As you point out, in Wizards case, it was utterly futile.
> > With regard to compensation, I believe the family are having to pay
> > ALL OF US 40 per week, so when you consider that there are 5 people
> > affected, that is a lot of overtime in mothers case, because father is
> > salaried. Wizards slaves have been offered 250, but I think believe
> > they are not accepting the money and bringing a private prosecution
> > against the familly.
> > So there are 4 of us receiving a total of 160 per week from them..
>
> > (close to $280) It may not seem like much to some of you, but to us,
> > it is a lot of money)
> > And they still have to face Wizards family regarding compensation too.
>
> > And the local grapevine tells us that the family have had to borrow
> > the money to ensure that they don't default with payment.. because if
> > they do, it is not just a court appearance that they face, I think it
> > is the fathers job @ risk too!!
>
> > What school wants it known that the maths teachers kids are hoodlums.
> > The child has since been excluded from the school & is now attending
> > some scheme that the government sets up for misfits, so that when they
> > leave school, @ least they will be able to write their own names..&
> > the government have fulfilled their duty to educate them too.
> > NO ONE Knows what a handicap better than I do.....
> > S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I am really pleased to hear that you caught the little [email protected] in the
> end.
> I thought you might do after I saw your post about offering a reward.
>
> These kids should be beaten by their father rather than told not to
> worry whilst wasting their savings and reputations trying to get them
> out of trouble..
> If he gave them a thrashing that it seems obvious that they wouldn't
> expect, then the chances are it might shock them into believing that
> this has to stop right here and right now.
>
> I'm not sure that I blame the parent for what the child does, but I
> certainly wouldn't support them by condoning it and paying costs for
> them.
> Were I in ...
>
> read more - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

good idea for any normal kid for whom this kind of behaviour was
totally out of character and had the capacity for feelign remorse at
their actions and the sufferuing they have caused but, just as someone
previously said, I would not want either of these little ****s
anywhere near my house or within a 100 miles of any rescue shelter
ever, they simply are not responsible enough to be trusted like that.
Certainly the latter option would possibly help to bring home to them
the kind of suffering that people like them inflict on innocent and
vulnerable animals but somehow i doubt it woudl work on these kids.

I think we shoud just stick to giving them a damn good beating and be
done with it.

bookie
April 4th 07, 03:03 AM
On 3 Apr, 19:28, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" >
>
> I know how it is I used to troll hunt. I can drive them mad as a hatter. I
> have irritated I bend over many of times but it gets boring after awhile
> when they can't come up with anything original. I bend over doesn't even
> rank as a troll he made it to being a poor pathetic joke that you can't help
> but laugh at. Step back Take a look at what he writes can you imagine his
> pathetic life. Now if that don't make you ROFLMAO I don't know what will.
>
> I kill filed him awhile ago if he came up with something original or
> interesting than maybe I would mess with him again but it got to the point I
> was laughing so hard when I read his responses picturing him pounding a
> response back being so ****ed off. I had to stop I was going to need a new
> key board every day. ;-)

i don't actually read any of his rants anymore to be honest so if he
did have something useful or intelligent to contribute ever i woudl
miss it. I just know he posts crap all the time

sheelagh
April 4th 07, 03:32 PM
On 3 Apr, 22:29, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
> On Apr 3, 9:32?am, "bookie" > wrote:
>

>
> There was no previous life. Jehovah God said so.

>
> IBen Getiner



Ahhh..
That explains it all to me.Your a Jo Bo then?

IBen Getiner
April 5th 07, 06:57 AM
On Apr 4, 10:32?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 3 Apr, 22:29, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > On Apr 3, 9:32?am, "bookie" > wrote:
>
> > There was no previous life. Jehovah God said so.
>
> >IBen Getiner
>
> Ahhh..
> That explains it all to me.Your a Jo Bo then?

What is a Jo Bo?

IBen Getiner

IBen Getiner
April 5th 07, 06:59 AM
On Apr 4, 10:32?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 3 Apr, 22:29, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > On Apr 3, 9:32?am, "bookie" > wrote:
>
> > There was no previous life. Jehovah God said so.
>
> >IBen Getiner
>
> Ahhh..
> That explains it all to me.Your a Jo Bo then?

What is a Jo Bo...?


IBen Getiner

sheelagh
April 5th 07, 12:35 PM
On 5 Apr, 06:59, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
> On Apr 4, 10:32?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > On 3 Apr, 22:29, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 3, 9:32?am, "bookie" > wrote:
>
> > > There was no previous life. Jehovah God said so.
>
> > >IBen Getiner
>
> > Ahhh..
> > That explains it all to me.Your a Jo Bo then?
>
> What is a Jo Bo...?
>
> IBen Getiner

A Jehovah's witness...

sheelagh
April 5th 07, 12:38 PM
On 5 Apr, 06:59, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
> On Apr 4, 10:32?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > On 3 Apr, 22:29, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 3, 9:32?am, "bookie" > wrote:
>
> > > There was no previous life. Jehovah God said so.
>
> > >IBen Getiner
>
> > Ahhh..
> > That explains it all to me.Your a Jo Bo then?
>
> What is a Jo Bo...?
>
> IBen Getiner

I have some very good friends who are Jehovah's witnesses, but none of
them are anything like you.

They are kind tolerant people who respect other people's views &
explain their beliefs in a kind and informative manner....

IBen Getiner
April 6th 07, 01:33 AM
On Apr 5, 7:35?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 5 Apr, 06:59, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 4, 10:32?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > On 3 Apr, 22:29, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > > On Apr 3, 9:32?am, "bookie" > wrote:
>
> > > > There was no previous life. Jehovah God said so.
>
> > > >IBen Getiner
>
> > > Ahhh..
> > > That explains it all to me.Your a Jo Bo then?
>
> > What is a Jo Bo...?
>
> >IBen Getiner
>
> A Jehovah's witness...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

So you think me a member of the Jehovah Witness cult just because I
used God's real name... The answer is NO. I am a Southern Baptists
(non-affiliated at the present moment). We don't choose to handle
snakes or drink poison or anything like that. But we do know our
Bible :) And just because you hear someone using God's formal name...
that doesn't mean that the person using it is a cult member. That's
God's real name. The Old Testament says so. Just like Jesus... That's
not what people called the dude back in His day. That's His English
name. Laid out real nice and familiar-like so all of our Koolaid-
drinking Catholic friends can dig it. Same with James, John, Peter,
Paul.. There's even a Mary in there, isn't there? LOL..!! Why do we
English speaking foke always assume that the rest of the ****ing world
has always done likewise? Jesus' real name (in Greek or Hebrew or
whatever) is Yashewa. That's what His mother called him. It sounds
just like it's spelled.
But God's name is Jehovah, and that's how I address Him. When I'm in a
good mood, that is.



IBen Getiner

IBen Getiner
April 6th 07, 01:54 AM
On Apr 5, 7:38?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 5 Apr, 06:59, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 4, 10:32?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > On 3 Apr, 22:29, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > > On Apr 3, 9:32?am, "bookie" > wrote:
>
> > > > There was no previous life. Jehovah God said so.
>
> > > >IBen Getiner
>
> > > Ahhh..
> > > That explains it all to me.Your a Jo Bo then?
>
> > What is a Jo Bo...?
>
> >IBen Getiner
>
> I have some very good friends who are Jehovah's witnesses, but none of
> them are anything like you.
>

Thank you...


> They are kind tolerant people who respect other people's views &
> explain their beliefs in a kind and informative manner....- Hide quoted text -
>

Yeah, and they've been sent by the devil to get you, too. That's why
they're attempting to impress you like that. You catch more flies with
honey than with vinegar, you know. Naturally they're going to be
friendly and emit an aire of tolerance when around a potential mark.
They pervert the gospel with every other breath, so they don't want to
give you any unnecessary reasons to check them out. Satan never comes
up to your front door like he is! He knows you would recognize him and
send him down the road. Or would you....
Not to mention, white 'Jo Bos' love to cross-breed with the negroe
race. Got a pretty big taste for it. It's epidemic in all their
congregations. Every third one is married to an inferior coloured half-
wit. So now they must be as tolerant about everything else as
possible. Just my 3 cents.

IBen Getiner

Goyangi-tan
April 6th 07, 06:51 AM
On Apr 5, 8:33 pm, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
> On Apr 5, 7:35?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 5 Apr, 06:59, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 4, 10:32?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > > On 3 Apr, 22:29, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Apr 3, 9:32?am, "bookie" > wrote:
>
> > > > > There was no previous life. Jehovah God said so.
>
> > > > >IBen Getiner
>
> > > > Ahhh..
> > > > That explains it all to me.Your a Jo Bo then?
>
> > > What is a Jo Bo...?
>
> > >IBen Getiner
>
> > A Jehovah's witness...- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> So you think me a member of the Jehovah Witness cult just because I
> used God's real name... The answer is NO. I am a Southern Baptists
> (non-affiliated at the present moment). We don't choose to handle
> snakes or drink poison or anything like that. But we do know our
> Bible :) And just because you hear someone using God's formal name...
> that doesn't mean that the person using it is a cult member. That's
> God's real name. The Old Testament says so. Just like Jesus... That's
> not what people called the dude back in His day. That's His English
> name. Laid out real nice and familiar-like so all of our Koolaid-
> drinking Catholic friends can dig it. Same with James, John, Peter,
> Paul.. There's even a Mary in there, isn't there? LOL..!! Why do we
> English speaking foke always assume that the rest of the ****ing world
> has always done likewise? Jesus' real name (in Greek or Hebrew or
> whatever) is Yashewa. That's what His mother called him. It sounds
> just like it's spelled.
> But God's name is Jehovah, and that's how I address Him. When I'm in a
> good mood, that is.
>
> IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Don't sweat it, Benji... this one-eyed illiterate retard Sheelagh's
second language is English, anyway. Even *she* doesn't know what her
first language is.

She's half-blind over her unrequited love for me.

dgk
April 6th 07, 01:10 PM
On 5 Apr 2007 17:54:06 -0700, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:

....
>
>Yeah, and they've been sent by the devil to get you, too. That's why
>they're attempting to impress you like that. You catch more flies with
>honey than with vinegar, you know. Naturally they're going to be
>friendly and emit an aire of tolerance when around a potential mark.
>They pervert the gospel with every other breath, so they don't want to
>give you any unnecessary reasons to check them out. Satan never comes
>up to your front door like he is! He knows you would recognize him and
>send him down the road. Or would you....
> Not to mention, white 'Jo Bos' love to cross-breed with the negroe
>race. Got a pretty big taste for it. It's epidemic in all their
>congregations. Every third one is married to an inferior coloured half-
>wit. So now they must be as tolerant about everything else as
>possible. Just my 3 cents.
>
>IBen Getiner
>
>

Oh IBen, I just love when one religious believer trashes other
religious believers. I'm with you man, but in addition to trashing all
the folks you trash, I add yours. To me they're all just goop. I don't
know what we're all doing here on this insignificant fleaspeck
mudball, but no one else does either.

So, the best thing I can do for the moment is make sure that my
furballs aren't getting poisoned food, and try to make the folks
around me happy. Some of them believe the goop also, but they're good
folks so that's pretty much ok. At least, they're ok as long as they
don't expect me to believe it or live their way.

And I'm glad they found out who shot Ringo. No matter what else, those
are sick kids.

sheelagh
April 6th 07, 01:41 PM
On 6 Apr, 01:33, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
> On Apr 5, 7:35?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 5 Apr, 06:59, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 4, 10:32?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > > On 3 Apr, 22:29, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Apr 3, 9:32?am, "bookie" > wrote:
>
> > > > > There was no previous life. Jehovah God said so.
>
> > > > >IBen Getiner
>
> > > > Ahhh..
> > > > That explains it all to me.Your a Jo Bo then?
>
> > > What is a Jo Bo...?
>
> > >IBen Getiner
>
> > A Jehovah's witness...- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> So you think me a member of the Jehovah Witness cult just because I
> used God's real name... The answer is NO. I am a Southern Baptists
> (non-affiliated at the present moment). We don't choose to handle
> snakes or drink poison or anything like that. But we do know our
> Bible :)
Yes, I did think that you were a Jehovah's Witness.. Simply because I
have never heard of anyone addressing him by his "English name".

And just because you hear someone using God's formal name...
> that doesn't mean that the person using it is a cult member .That's
> God's real name.

I know.

The Old Testament says so. Just like Jesus... That's
> not what people called the dude back in His day. That's His English
> name. Laid out real nice and familiar-like so all of our Koolaid-
> drinking Catholic friends can dig it. Same with James, John, Peter,
> Paul.. There's even a Mary in there, isn't there? LOL..!!

Yes, that is correct. The divine conception ect...I choose not to
laugh at it, because I believe in tolerance & understanding of other
peoples belief's.( Hence the interest in your Religion & the
information that I seek..)

If you know your Bible as well as you tell me, Can you also tell me
the real names of Matthew(10.2-4) Simon, Peter, James, John & Philip?
Also Mark 3.16-19) Bartholomew & Thomas as well?
I have also wondered what the real names of Simon the zealot, Judas
and Judas the Iscariot's too?
This is no trick question, I assure you. I have always wondered what
their real names are?

Why do we
> English speaking foke always assume that the rest of the ****ing world
> has always done likewise? Jesus' real name (in Greek or Hebrew or
> whatever) is Yashewa. That's what His mother called him. It sounds
> just like it's spelled.

I don't agree with anything else that you have said so far, but I do
agree with this statement. Rather like the assumption that all of
them were white. It is a ridiculous thought when you think of the area
of the world that they came from..!!
> But God's name is Jehovah, and that's how I address Him. When I'm in a
> good mood, that is.
I can understand that.
> IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
S;o)

IBen Getiner
April 6th 07, 07:40 PM
On Apr 6, 8:10?am, dgk > wrote:
> On 5 Apr 2007 17:54:06 -0700, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Yeah, and they've been sent by the devil to get you, too. That's why
> >they're attempting to impress you like that. You catch more flies with
> >honey than with vinegar, you know. Naturally they're going to be
> >friendly and emit an aire of tolerance when around a potential mark.
> >They pervert the gospel with every other breath, so they don't want to
> >give you any unnecessary reasons to check them out. Satan never comes
> >up to your front door like he is! He knows you would recognize him and
> >send him down the road. Or would you....
> > Not to mention, white 'Jo Bos' love to cross-breed with the negroe
> >race. Got a pretty big taste for it. It's epidemic in all their
> >congregations. Every third one is married to an inferior coloured half-
> >wit. So now they must be as tolerant about everything else as
> >possible. Just my 3 cents.
>
> >IBen Getiner
>
> Oh IBen, I just love when one religious believer trashes other
> religious believers. I'm with you man, but in addition to trashing all
> the folks you trash, I add yours. To me they're all just goop. I don't
> know what we're all doing here on this insignificant fleaspeck
> mudball, but no one else does either.
>
> So, the best thing I can do for the moment is make sure that my
> furballs aren't getting poisoned food, and try to make the folks
> around me happy. Some of them believe the goop also, but they're good
> folks so that's pretty much ok. At least, they're ok as long as they
> don't expect me to believe it or live their way.


What........???

Who the HELL are you..? I wasn't addressing you. Go away. I'm busy.


IBen Getiner

IBen Getiner
April 6th 07, 08:10 PM
On Apr 6, 8:41�am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 6 Apr, 01:33, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 5, 7:35?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > On 5 Apr, 06:59, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > > On Apr 4, 10:32?am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > > > On 3 Apr, 22:29, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Apr 3, 9:32?am, "bookie" > wrote:
>
> > > > > > There was no previous life. Jehovah God said so.
>
> > > > > >IBen Getiner
>
> > > > > Ahhh..
> > > > > That explains it all to me.Your a Jo Bo then?
>
> > > > What is a Jo Bo...?
>
> > > >IBen Getiner
>
> > > A Jehovah's witness...- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > So you think me a member of the Jehovah Witness cult just because I
> > used God's real name... The answer is NO. I am a Southern Baptists
> > (non-affiliated at the present moment). We don't choose to handle
> > snakes or drink poison or anything like that. But we do know our
> > Bible :)
>
> Yes, I did think that you were a Jehovah's Witness.. Simply because I
> have never heard of anyone addressing him by his "English name".
>
> *> And just because you hear someone using God's formal name...
>
> > that doesn't mean that the person using it is a cult member .That's
> > God's real name.
>
> I know.
>
> *> The Old Testament says so. Just like Jesus... That's
>
> > not what people called the dude back in His day. That's His English
> > name. Laid out real nice and familiar-like so all of our Koolaid-
> > drinking Catholic friends can dig it. Same with James, John, Peter,
> > Paul.. There's even a Mary in there, isn't there? LOL..!!
>
> Yes, that is correct. The divine conception ect...
>

You apparently missed the pun. But that's okay. Most lost people do.

> I choose not to
> laugh at it, because I believe in tolerance & understanding of other
> peoples belief's.
>

Kewl..!

> ( Hence the interest in your Religion & the
> information that I seek..)
>

My religion is a personal matter. I only make it public when I need to
use it against people to win a case.


> If you know your Bible as well as you tell me, Can you also tell me
> the real names of Matthew(10.2-4) Simon, Peter, James, John & Philip?
> Also Mark 3.16-19) Bartholomew & Thomas as well?
> I have also wondered what the real names of Simon the zealot, Judas
> and Judas the Iscariot's too?
> This is no trick question, I assure you. I have always wondered what
> their real names are?
>

I said I was a Baptists. Not a expert in ancient Hebrew or ancient
Greek. Sorry. Kan't help.

> > Why do we
>
> > English speaking foke always assume that the rest of the ****ing world
> > has always done likewise? Jesus' real name (in Greek or Hebrew or
> > whatever) is Yashewa. That's what His mother called him. It sounds
> > just like it's spelled.
>
> I don't agree with anything else that you have said so far,

You've done nothing BUT agree "so far".


> but I do
> agree with this statement. Rather like the assumption that all of
> them were white. It is a ridiculous thought when you think of the area
> of the world that they came from..!!

Jesus was a Jew. And the Jews are a race. Not a nationality. So yes,
you are quite correct.

Where's the bit about the interracial breeding that I wrote?. That
part was very important towards the validity of the rest of my post.
It shows what poor judgment Jehovah's Witnesses have, thereby casting
a doubt on their so-called conversion. Any white person who allows
themselves to be lowered to the level of a black is really no better
than a black themselves. Hence, the poor judgment I speak of. You
can't trust another thing they say or do. I mean, the Bible is very
clear on this. God separated the races at the tower of Babble and now
groups like theirs are trying to put them back together again.


> > But God's name is Jehovah, and that's how I address Him. When I'm in a
> > good mood, that is.
>
> I can understand that.
>

Well, GOOD! You see....? We agree again. That's everything so far.
Except the parts that you accidentally deleted. But don't worry. We
are going to get to the bottom of that.


IBen Getiner

sheelagh
April 6th 07, 08:15 PM
On 6 Apr, 19:40, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
> On Apr 6, 8:10?am, dgk > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 5 Apr 2007 17:54:06 -0700, "IBen Getiner" > wrote:
>
> > ...
>
> > >Yeah, and they've been sent by the devil to get you, too. That's why
> > >they're attempting to impress you like that. You catch more flies with
> > >honey than with vinegar, you know. Naturally they're going to be
> > >friendly and emit an aire of tolerance when around a potential mark.
> > >They pervert the gospel with every other breath, so they don't want to
> > >give you any unnecessary reasons to check them out. Satan never comes
> > >up to your front door like he is! He knows you would recognize him and
> > >send him down the road. Or would you....
> > > Not to mention, white 'Jo Bos' love to cross-breed with the negroe
> > >race. Got a pretty big taste for it. It's epidemic in all their
> > >congregations. Every third one is married to an inferior coloured half-
> > >wit. So now they must be as tolerant about everything else as
> > >possible. Just my 3 cents.
>
> > >IBen Getiner
>
> > Oh IBen, I just love when one religious believer trashes other
> > religious believers. I'm with you man, but in addition to trashing all
> > the folks you trash, I add yours. To me they're all just goop. I don't
> > know what we're all doing here on this insignificant fleaspeck
> > mudball, but no one else does either.
>
> > So, the best thing I can do for the moment is make sure that my
> > furballs aren't getting poisoned food, and try to make the folks
> > around me happy. Some of them believe the goop also, but they're good
> > folks so that's pretty much ok. At least, they're ok as long as they
> > don't expect me to believe it or live their way.
>
> What........???
>
> Who the HELL are you..? I wasn't addressing you. Go away. I'm busy.
>
> IBen Getiner- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Look like we have agree to disagree then.
Happy worshiping then
S;o)

sheelagh
April 10th 07, 02:37 PM
>
> All great news! I hope you find the culprits, soon!
>
> Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Bad news is that the cat with organ failure died the day before
yesterday, I have only just found out. I really do feel for them. It
must be terrible;o(

We were 2 days late because of the Bank Holiday, but today Ringo had
his stitches taken out of underneath his leg joint where they had to
pin him and also from his face too.
( it looked ever so painful because some of the new scab had formed
over it ..Ouch!!)

His face is fine, but still looks a little odd where the fur &
Whiskers are still missing because they had to shave him. And his Leg
brace has been removed and replaced with a much smaller version on the
top of the leg & firmly strapped. We go back in 4 days again to see if
he can have the whole thing off.

He looks a lot better all round and we are amazed @ how much mobility
he has with the new strap. He is using all 4 paws occasionally, but 3
if he is tired...
( which isn't often given his slave's devotion, lol;o)
He has spent most of the last 10 days laying out in the cat run on his
back with all 4 paws in the air catching rays, lol...

It is really nice to see him back to his almost normal self
S;o)

Lynne
April 10th 07, 04:11 PM
on Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:37:11 GMT, "sheelagh"
> wrote:

> It is really nice to see him back to his almost normal self

It's really good to hear how well he is coming along.

--
Lynne

sheelagh
April 10th 07, 04:30 PM
On 10 Apr, 16:11, Lynne > wrote:
> on Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:37:11 GMT, "sheelagh"
>
> > wrote:
> > It is really nice to see him back to his almost normal self
>
> It's really good to hear how well he is coming along.
>
> --
> Lynne

He is our Baby right now...
You should see the smoldering looks he gets from Lucy(fur!!).. If
looks could kill, he would be a pile of clean picked bones on the
floor, lol;o)
If Ringo whines to get on your lap, she will jump up there first to
make sure there is no room for the pair of them...

Poor old Lucy, I think she is feeling a little left out. She is really
Tilly's baby, but that isn't enough, she wants to be everyones
baby.....

I am trying to make sure that she gets the same quality time as he
does, but she doesn't seem to agree with me...She wants Lucy(fur!)
time ONLY ,lol;o)
S;o)

Lis
April 10th 07, 08:12 PM
On Apr 10, 9:37 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> > All great news! I hope you find the culprits, soon!
>
> > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Bad news is that the cat with organ failure died the day before
> yesterday, I have only just found out. I really do feel for them. It
> must be terrible;o(

Oh, that's too bad. I am very sorry.

> We were 2 days late because of the Bank Holiday, but today Ringo had
> his stitches taken out of underneath his leg joint where they had to
> pin him and also from his face too.
> ( it looked ever so painful because some of the new scab had formed
> over it ..Ouch!!)
>
> His face is fine, but still looks a little odd where the fur &
> Whiskers are still missing because they had to shave him. And his Leg
> brace has been removed and replaced with a much smaller version on the
> top of the leg & firmly strapped. We go back in 4 days again to see if
> he can have the whole thing off.
>
> He looks a lot better all round and we are amazed @ how much mobility
> he has with the new strap. He is using all 4 paws occasionally, but 3
> if he is tired...
> ( which isn't often given his slave's devotion, lol;o)
> He has spent most of the last 10 days laying out in the cat run on his
> back with all 4 paws in the air catching rays, lol...
>
> It is really nice to see him back to his almost normal self
> S;o)

Great to hear! I'm sure he'll be running the household in short
order.:)

Lis

sheelagh
April 11th 07, 12:42 PM
On 10 Apr, 20:12, "Lis" > wrote:
> On Apr 10, 9:37 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
>
> > > All great news! I hope you find the culprits, soon!
>
> > > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Bad news is that the cat with organ failure died the day before
> > yesterday, I have only just found out. I really do feel for them. It
> > must be terrible;o(
>
> Oh, that's too bad. I am very sorry.
>
>
>
>
>
> > We were 2 days late because of the Bank Holiday, but today Ringo had
> > his stitches taken out of underneath his leg joint where they had to
> > pin him and also from his face too.
> > ( it looked ever so painful because some of the new scab had formed
> > over it ..Ouch!!)
>
> > His face is fine, but still looks a little odd where the fur &
> > Whiskers are still missing because they had to shave him. And his Leg
> > brace has been removed and replaced with a much smaller version on the
> > top of the leg & firmly strapped. We go back in 4 days again to see if
> > he can have the whole thing off.
>
> > He looks a lot better all round and we are amazed @ how much mobility
> > he has with the new strap. He is using all 4 paws occasionally, but 3
> > if he is tired...
> > ( which isn't often given his slave's devotion, lol;o)
> > He has spent most of the last 10 days laying out in the cat run on his
> > back with all 4 paws in the air catching rays, lol...
>
> > It is really nice to see him back to his almost normal self
> > S;o)
>
> Great to hear! I'm sure he'll be running the household in short
> order.:)
>
> Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I thought so too:o(

I don't know the family, so I don't feel emotionally involved, but I
certainly feel for them.
It doesn't take too much to imagine how wretched they must feel, not
to mention the anger & frustration...
I am getting second hand bits of info from an0other family also
affected that know them better than the rest of us do...

Oh, Believe me Lis, he is...

Mind you, Lucy(fur!!), is doing quite well at slapping him down to
size, lol.
She is only half his size, but thinks nothing of having a slapping
face match contest with him when she feels that he needs slapping into
shape ..
(or rather the size of his head, lol;o)
The funniest bit is the kids crowing about who's cat came off best
after a feisty fist match. We have to watch them quite closely though
because of Ringo's face wound which is nice, & crusty and dry now. You
can see that it is itching him though, by the amount of wet paw
cleaning around it...

It reminds me of when Paul broke his arm, & tried itching inside the
cast with one of my knitting needles, which he proclaimed was the best
thing in the world to itch inside the cast with......Until the Number
9 size needle bit came off inside the cast, lol.. It drove him batty
for weeks....

Oh boy I wish the kids were back @ School... They are all so bored.
I must be getting Really ancient because I don't understand what there
is to be bored about??
We didn't have PS66's, WII's, X Boxes & every other digital implements
that there are today. We just went out & came back when our tummies
told us it was time to.....
Never mind, In this country when you get to 65, you have a bus pass to
look forward to & a free TV licence when you get to 75( when most
people drop dead in other words...)

Not even fresh air is free here now with environment tax. But I don't
mind paying that one, it's the rest of them that get up my nose,
lol:o)
S;o)