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View Full Version : Wheat Gluten from China?!?!


Amy C.
April 6th 07, 12:24 AM
Does anyone else find it ironic that with the surplus of wheat in the
US that Canadian and US companies are importing WHEAT from China?

I'm about ready to move to Mars. At least humans haven't destroyed all
that's sacred and healthy there yet.

thank GOD my cats are not sick. Although I do have a 16 year old with
recently diagnosed age related renal failure. But it's early stages
and treatable by (yes, as you suspected) dietary interventions should
we ever find a food that's not toxic, that is...sigh

I digress...

Mom to 4 feline boys and a human son with Autism.

cindys
April 6th 07, 12:54 AM
"Amy C." > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Does anyone else find it ironic that with the surplus of wheat in the
> US that Canadian and US companies are importing WHEAT from China?
>
> I'm about ready to move to Mars. At least humans haven't destroyed all
> that's sacred and healthy there yet.
>
> thank GOD my cats are not sick. Although I do have a 16 year old with
> recently diagnosed age related renal failure. But it's early stages
> and treatable by (yes, as you suspected) dietary interventions should
> we ever find a food that's not toxic, that is...sigh
>
> I digress...
>
> Mom to 4 feline boys and a human son with Autism.
--------------
As far as I know, the prescription kidney diets k/d (dry only) and x/d (dry
only) do not contain any wheat gluten or other wheat products.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Doug Bashford
April 6th 07, 01:02 AM
On 5 Apr 2007, Amy C. said about:
Wheat Gluten from China?!?!


> Does anyone else find it ironic that with the surplus of wheat in the
> US that Canadian and US companies are importing WHEAT from China?

Being sort of a news/politics junkie, I wouldn't
use the word "irony" to describe it.

I'm tempted to use the word "evil," however.
But I generally dont approve of that word,
since I'm not religious.

** "Fascism should more properly be called
** corporatism, since it is the merger of state
** and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people
tolerate the growth of private power to a point where
it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself.
That in it's essence is fascism: ownership of the
government by an individual, by a group or any
controlling private power."
-- Franklin Delano Roosevelt, message to congress,
proposing the "Standard Oil" Monopoly Investigation, 1938


> I'm about ready to move to Mars. At least humans haven't destroyed all
> that's sacred and healthy there yet.

Indeed. Yet.

I think the solution is far easier. But sadly, more
difficult (as our founding fathers warned us) than mere
voting. So in reality, that rules you out, doesn't it?
Aint we well trained?


> Mom to 4 feline boys and a human son with Autism.

Autism is up what? 400%???

Just a coincedence, right? No need to get angry.
I mean, not really, really angry.
Somebody might call you unpatriotic.
It's just a cost of doing business.

I'm reminded of the golden wire in the novel, Watership
Down.

Best,
--Doug


--

When one gains a political certainty akin to
a loyal sports fan, one has achieved the final
tranquility of servitude, a joyous slavery.


"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude better than
the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that ye were
our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams, August 1, 1776

OKC
April 6th 07, 02:05 AM
"Doug Bashford" > wrote in message
om...
>
> -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt, message to congress,
> proposing the "Standard Oil" Monopoly Investigation, 1938



ROTFLMAO! And you quote Roosevelt !!!!????

He was and still is the biggest Neo-Liberal Socialist
to ever hold the presidency.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
try again hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

OKC
April 6th 07, 02:10 AM
"Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer" > wrote in
message
>
> These deals with China are free trade at it's worst! Maybe Bill Clinton
> and
> George Bush should sit down together for a meal of "free trade" wheat
> gluten resulting from the policies they have been promoting for the last
> 14
> years.....


Yup, there you go, you got it right, unlike the nut case above who
holds up the Neo-Liberal Socialist Franklin Roosevelt as some
sort of sick joke. Neither the Republicans OR the Democraps are to
be trusted. They are both playing on the same team, and that team
does not have America's best interests at heart.

Franklin Roosevelt MY ASS!

Amy C.
April 6th 07, 02:16 AM
On Apr 5, 8:50 pm, Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer
> These deals with China are free trade at it's worst! Maybe Bill Clinton and
> George Bush should sit down together for a meal of "free trade" wheat
> gluten resulting from the policies they have been promoting for the last 14
> years.....
And while we're being political....does it strike anyone odd that we
have free trade with China with all the Communist goings on. Yet we
cannot have Cuban Cigars in the US?????

Ok, off my political pulpit. I have to go pack for Mars..

chatnoir
April 6th 07, 03:31 AM
On Apr 5, 7:51 pm, Anonyma > wrote:
> > Does anyone else find it ironic that with the surplus of wheat in the
> > US that Canadian and US companies are importing WHEAT from China?
>
> They eat a lot of wheat gluten in Asia, and that begs the question of
> whether or not China or any of China's neighbors is experiencing a new
> epidemic of liver or kidney disease. It sounds like a lot of plasticware
> may have gotten in the milling operation. Great Q.A. work there!
>
> I wonder if a local manager wasn't throwing old plastic scrap in the mills
> to increase output tonnage without increasing feedstock costs.


Hard to say! I know of a Pizza Hut truck that sat in the parking lot
for a week before going out! The thermostat in the freezer was set to
110 degrees C instead of minus 10! The manager just removed the top
layer of melted cheese and sent the truck out on delivery! So, any
thing can happen and be covered up! Maybe not too many will die!

Fertilizer
> or insecticide sources aren't likely unless fallen wheat was gleaned from
> the ground. That's another very unpleasant thought, in which case Q.A. is
> futile since the grain will have an indeterminate and ever changing set of
> contaminants.
>
> Remember, the Chinese vendor claims that it is FOOD GRADE gluten but that
> they aren't responsible. They just bought the gluten from these neighboring
> provinces, whose accountability seems to have gone on vacation for the
> spring. If it were a Japanese or Korean vendor, the managers may very well
> have committed suicide by now. Huge difference in paradigms between Asian
> countries.
>
> These deals with China are free trade at it's worst! Maybe Bill Clinton and
> George Bush should sit down together for a meal of "free trade" wheat
> gluten resulting from the policies they have been promoting for the last 14
> years.....

It is a money issue like most other things - cheaper to get overseas!:

http://www.slate.com/id/2163235/

Un-American Pet FoodWhy do we put Chinese wheat gluten in Fido's
kibble?
By Michelle Tsai
Posted Monday, April 2, 2007, at 7:33 PM ET
Download the MP3 audio version of this story here, or sign up for The
Explainer's free daily podcast on iTunes.
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration blocked imports of wheat gluten
from a Chinese company Monday. The agency identified the company as
the source of the tainted wheat gluten that caused a massive pet-food
recall last week. Given how much wheat is produced by American
farmers, why do we need to import wheat gluten?
Because it's cheaper than buying domestic gluten. We may be the
world's largest exporter of wheat, shipping 1 billion bushels to other
countries in last year's growing season. Yet we export relatively
little wheat gluten. To extract the gluten from wheat, you have to
separate it from the starch, by repeatedly washing and kneading wheat
flour. But only four U.S. companies go through this process; last
year, they produced roughly 100 million pounds of wheat gluten, about
20 percent of the domestic demand.
Almost two-thirds of the more than 400 million pounds we imported came
from European Union countries. That's because the Europeans use wheat
starch to make sweeteners, which leaves them with a lot of extra
gluten. The United States, on the other hand, relies on corn for
sweeteners-thus the high-fructose corn syrup in our sodas. Add in
Europe's wheat subsidies, and EU nations can sell their wheat gluten
for a low price. U.S. wheat-gluten-makers say EU prices are sometimes
below American production costs.

In addition to EU countries, Australia accounted for more than 18
percent of imported gluten in 2006 and China 14 percent, according to
the USDA's Foreign Agricultural Service. Industry insiders say Chinese
imports more than doubled from 2005, based on U.S. Census Bureau
figures.
Our enormous appetite for wheat gluten exacerbates the wheat-gluten
trade deficit. We're the world's biggest consumer of wheat gluten
today; American manufacturers use it to produce baked goods. Having
the right protein content in dough ensures that it will remain intact
as it rises. Without the elasticity afforded by the gluten, bread
would collapse, yielding a dense, heavy loaf. Wheat gluten also gives
vegetarian "fake meat," like DIY seitan, and pet food a meatlike
texture and binds together processed foods like chicken nuggets,
turkey burgers, and imitation crabmeat. Gluten even makes its way into
shampoo and biodegradable sporks.
Bonus Explainer: We may be the biggest wheat exporter around, but
we're also an importer. The United States bought $304 million worth of
wheat from Canada last year, and smaller amounts from Mexico, Hungary,
and a few other nations.
Got a question about today's news? Ask the Explainer.
Explainer thanks Joshua Lagos at the USDA's Foreign Agricultural
Service, Ronald Madl of the Bioprocessing and Industrial Value Added
Center at Kansas State University, and Steve Pickman of MGP
Ingredients.

chatnoir
April 7th 07, 06:52 PM
On Apr 5, 6:50 pm, Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer
> wrote:
> > Does anyone else find it ironic that with the surplus of wheat in the
> > US that Canadian and US companies are importing WHEAT from China?
>
> They eat a lot of wheat gluten in Asia, and that begs the question of
> whether or not China or any of China's neighbors is experiencing a new
> epidemic of liver or kidney disease. It sounds like a lot of plasticware
> may have gotten in the milling operation. Great Q.A. work there!
>
> I wonder if a local manager wasn't throwing old plastic scrap in the mills
> to increase output tonnage without increasing feedstock costs. Fertilizer
> or insecticide sources aren't likely unless fallen wheat was gleaned from
> the ground. That's another very unpleasant thought, in which case Q.A. is
> futile since the grain will have an indeterminate and ever changing set of
> contaminants.
>

I heard that the melamine was probably added on purpose to make it
look like the wheat gluten had a higher protein content than it did!

Joe Canuck
April 7th 07, 07:03 PM
chatnoir wrote:
> On Apr 5, 6:50 pm, Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer
> > wrote:
>>> Does anyone else find it ironic that with the surplus of wheat in the
>>> US that Canadian and US companies are importing WHEAT from China?
>> They eat a lot of wheat gluten in Asia, and that begs the question of
>> whether or not China or any of China's neighbors is experiencing a new
>> epidemic of liver or kidney disease. It sounds like a lot of plasticware
>> may have gotten in the milling operation. Great Q.A. work there!
>>
>> I wonder if a local manager wasn't throwing old plastic scrap in the mills
>> to increase output tonnage without increasing feedstock costs. Fertilizer
>> or insecticide sources aren't likely unless fallen wheat was gleaned from
>> the ground. That's another very unpleasant thought, in which case Q.A. is
>> futile since the grain will have an indeterminate and ever changing set of
>> contaminants.
>>
>
> I heard that the melamine was probably added on purpose to make it
> look like the wheat gluten had a higher protein content than it did!
>

Source of that information? ...was it online?

cybercat
April 7th 07, 07:55 PM
"Joe Canuck" > wrote in message
...
> chatnoir wrote:
>> On Apr 5, 6:50 pm, Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer
>> > wrote:
>>>> Does anyone else find it ironic that with the surplus of wheat in the
>>>> US that Canadian and US companies are importing WHEAT from China?
>>> They eat a lot of wheat gluten in Asia, and that begs the question of
>>> whether or not China or any of China's neighbors is experiencing a new
>>> epidemic of liver or kidney disease. It sounds like a lot of plasticware
>>> may have gotten in the milling operation. Great Q.A. work there!
>>>
>>> I wonder if a local manager wasn't throwing old plastic scrap in the
>>> mills
>>> to increase output tonnage without increasing feedstock costs.
>>> Fertilizer
>>> or insecticide sources aren't likely unless fallen wheat was gleaned
>>> from
>>> the ground. That's another very unpleasant thought, in which case Q.A.
>>> is
>>> futile since the grain will have an indeterminate and ever changing set
>>> of
>>> contaminants.
>>>
>>
>> I heard that the melamine was probably added on purpose to make it
>> look like the wheat gluten had a higher protein content than it did!
>>
>
> Source of that information? ...was it online?

Joe. This was posted with an anon remailer, why do you think that is?

Joe Canuck
April 7th 07, 08:40 PM
cybercat wrote:
> "Joe Canuck" > wrote in message
> ...
>> chatnoir wrote:
>>> On Apr 5, 6:50 pm, Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer
>>> > wrote:
>>>>> Does anyone else find it ironic that with the surplus of wheat in the
>>>>> US that Canadian and US companies are importing WHEAT from China?
>>>> They eat a lot of wheat gluten in Asia, and that begs the question of
>>>> whether or not China or any of China's neighbors is experiencing a new
>>>> epidemic of liver or kidney disease. It sounds like a lot of plasticware
>>>> may have gotten in the milling operation. Great Q.A. work there!
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if a local manager wasn't throwing old plastic scrap in the
>>>> mills
>>>> to increase output tonnage without increasing feedstock costs.
>>>> Fertilizer
>>>> or insecticide sources aren't likely unless fallen wheat was gleaned
>>>> from
>>>> the ground. That's another very unpleasant thought, in which case Q.A.
>>>> is
>>>> futile since the grain will have an indeterminate and ever changing set
>>>> of
>>>> contaminants.
>>>>
>>> I heard that the melamine was probably added on purpose to make it
>>> look like the wheat gluten had a higher protein content than it did!
>>>
>> Source of that information? ...was it online?
>
> Joe. This was posted with an anon remailer, why do you think that is?
>
>

I know... but I'm being a good 'net citizen. :-D

chatnoir
April 7th 07, 08:47 PM
On Apr 7, 12:03 pm, Joe Canuck > wrote:
> chatnoir wrote:
> > On Apr 5, 6:50 pm, Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer
> > > wrote:
> >>> Does anyone else find it ironic that with the surplus of wheat in the
> >>> US that Canadian and US companies are importing WHEAT from China?
> >> They eat a lot of wheat gluten in Asia, and that begs the question of
> >> whether or not China or any of China's neighbors is experiencing a new
> >> epidemic of liver or kidney disease. It sounds like a lot of plasticware
> >> may have gotten in the milling operation. Great Q.A. work there!
>
> >> I wonder if a local manager wasn't throwing old plastic scrap in the mills
> >> to increase output tonnage without increasing feedstock costs. Fertilizer
> >> or insecticide sources aren't likely unless fallen wheat was gleaned from
> >> the ground. That's another very unpleasant thought, in which case Q.A. is
> >> futile since the grain will have an indeterminate and ever changing set of
> >> contaminants.
>
> > I heard that the melamine was probably added on purpose to make it
> > look like the wheat gluten had a higher protein content than it did!
>
> Source of that information? ...was it online?

I think it was ABC news!

Lynne
April 8th 07, 02:48 AM
on Sat, 07 Apr 2007 18:03:39 GMT, Joe Canuck >
wrote:

> Source of that information? ...was it online?

I really hate it when people post references to news without the bloody
link! "I heard" blah blah just sounds like rumor mongering. In this case,
though, it's been in the news.

Here you go:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0704/06/acd.01.html

--
Lynne

chatnoir
April 8th 07, 03:36 AM
On Apr 7, 7:48 pm, Lynne > wrote:
> on Sat, 07 Apr 2007 18:03:39 GMT, Joe Canuck >
> wrote:
>
> > Source of that information? ...was it online?
>
> I really hate it when people post references to news without the bloody
> link! "I heard" blah blah just sounds like rumor mongering. In this case,
> though, it's been in the news.
>
> Here you go:http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0704/06/acd.01.html
>
> --
> Lynne

After listening to 20 or more news reports, I was not sure where I
heard it from! I reported what I heard!

Annie Wxill
April 8th 07, 05:27 PM
"Joe Canuck" > wrote in message
...
>.> Source of that information? ...was it online?

Hi Joe,
I can't answer where the other poster saw it, but I saw it on one of the
news programs on TV. Sorry, I don't remember which network.

Annie

IBen Getiner
April 9th 07, 04:29 AM
On Apr 5, 7:24?pm, "Amy C." > wrote:
> Does anyone else find it ironic that with the surplus of wheat in the
> US that Canadian and US companies are importing WHEAT from China?
>


Hahh...!! Welcome to the new world order, sister. We tried to tell you
people that this was coming 10, 20 years ago, but all we got was
labeled. This is great! You all deserve whatever you get. Just thank
God it wasn't in the human food chain. Or is it...?



IBen Getiner

Doug Bashford
April 10th 07, 12:24 AM
On Thu, 5 Apr 2007 21:05:08 -0400, OKC said about:
Re: Wheat Gluten from China?!?!


>
> "Doug Bashford" > wrote in message
> om...
> >
> > -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt, message to congress,
> > proposing the "Standard Oil" Monopoly Investigation, 1938
>
>
>
> ROTFLMAO! And you quote Roosevelt !!!!????
>
> He was and still is the biggest Neo-Liberal Socialist
> to ever hold the presidency.
>
> LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
> try again hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I always enjoy hearing from the wild-eyed know-knothing
dittohead parrots and kooks.
I find it so confirming.

Thanks!


Rush Limbaugh:
"Voters who voted yesterday believe that
Republicans are; "the big government party now."
How can you blame them?"
-- Rush Limbaugh November 8, 2006

Poor, sad, bad comedian.

He has de-educated America. ...made facts and logic
irrelevant. Made finding Truth impossible for his devotees.
He has ruined them, they now distrust even science itself.
For that, he should be hung.

** "Fascism should more properly be called
** corporatism, since it is the merger of state
** and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.


We've ALWAYS been at war with Eastasia!

Google: Results about 9,420 for
orwell 1984 "ALWAYS been at war with Eastasia!"

Google: Results about 69,500 for
Bush "We've NEVER been Stay the Course!"



"We don't have an illegal alien problem in the United States.
We have an illegal employer problem."
--Thom Hartmann

Fact is, if we started tossing some of those
illegal employers in jail, we'd have to widen our
border ports to let the all the Mexicans rush back.

Repub: But they do jobs Americans won't!

Nonesense.
That's a clear violation of simple economics. There
is no such thing. But there are jobs Americans won't
do *at Mexican wages.*

Repub: OK, but if wages go up by say, 50%, then
prices will go way up too.

So all the Rich Boy huggers tell us, all the time.
That seems to make sense, but it just ain't so. Labor
costs only have a small effect on prices. Prices are
not determined by labor costs, but rather, by what the market
will bear. If labor costs go way down, prices do not.
What happens is, profits and fat go up. For example, look
at $150 Nike shoes made by sweatshops for $3. Or look
at all our jobs lost to sweatshop nations. But if salaries
went up by say, 50%, manufacturers would yes, have to
work up a sweat, get off their fat asses, and get more
competative, effecient, (and other well known economic
forces,) and prices would only go up a little.

But if salaries went up by say, 50%, what would happen is,
the middle class would grow. That scares the hell out of
the Rich Boys. We have just now transitioned from economic
theory, to political theory.

Repub: OK, let's say that might be true. If so, what are the
three biggest things you claim are currently destroying
the middle class?

1) Free market ideology like NAFTA; as opposed to fair market;
2) a variety of practices to drive down the cost of labor -- from
destruction of the union movement to encouragement of immigration,
both legal and illegal; and
3) the promotion of the idea that democratic institutions are an
aberration, that vast wealth is the natural order of things in the
human and animal kingdoms.

Teddy Roosevelt was the first in the modern era to identify what
it would mean to have a middle class in a society that wasn't
propped up by slavery and land taken from the Native Americans
(which was largely responsible for the first middle class, in the
1700s).

The Republican Roosevelt realized that without government
intervention clearly defining the rules of business to serve
society as well as capitalism, there couldn't be a middle class.

Roosevelt suggested that the hallmarks of a "living wage" (he was
the first person to use that phrase), were that with an honest
week's work, a single family's wage-earner would be able to
support their family, raise their children, provide education for
those children -- including college, care for all their health
needs -- even in times of sickness (quoting Roosevelt), take an
annual vacation, and set enough aside that retirement and old age
would be comfortable and secure.

Now all that is sytematically being destroyed.

Wanna find out what I'm talking about? Find out what the
father of conservatism said about ruling the middle class.
That would be Edmund Burke (1729-1797). He is the brain
of the conservative brains, constantly cited by modern brains
such as Buckley.
He says men are stupid, and so, should be clones of the state:
"We are afraid to put men to live and trade each on
his own private stock of reason, because we suspect
that this stock in each man is small, and that the
individuals would do better to avail themselves of
the general bank and capital of nations and ages."

Burke hated the Enlightenment which brought our Jeffersonian
democracy and Constitution, and argued instead for the value of
state and "tradition."

Conservatives distrust and hate the middle class.
Conservativism is descibed as "the constant need to maintain
political, moral, and economic dikes against the ever-swelling sea
of popular ignorance, cupidity, violence, barbarism, and
fertility."[6] "

Conservatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Edmund Burke is often considered the father of conservatism in
Anglo-American circles. In the United Kingdom, Burkean
conservatism continues on, ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism - 74k -

Even today, they play you guys like a tin drum for votes.

Burke's family was, "the only other Gaelic Catholic group managing
to protect its lands from restrictions of the penal laws and
encroachment of growing middle-class interests. The Nagles,
therefore, achieved a position of influence and connection
unequalled by any other Catholic family in Ireland. (4)"

Check it out! Google "Edmund Burke" "middle class"
(keep the quotes)

--Doug



"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people
tolerate the growth of private power to a point where
it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself.
That in it's essence is fascism: ownership of the
government by an individual, by a group or any
controlling private power."
-- Franklin Delano Roosevelt, message to congress,
proposing the "Standard Oil" Monopoly Investigation, 1938


--

When one gains a political certainty akin to
a loyal sports fan, one has achieved the final
tranquility of servitude, a joyous slavery.


"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude better than
the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that ye were
our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams, August 1, 1776

Lenny Schwartz
April 10th 07, 03:21 AM
"Doug Bashford" > ****ed & moaned in a message >
> //// Psycho - Babble Flushed here ////


poor Delusional Dougie. took him four days to answer, after he stopped
taking his Zoloft.


Below Space reserved for more Delusional Dougie psycho-babble:

Lenny Schwartz
April 10th 07, 03:36 AM
poor Delusional Dougie, he sees Rush Limbaugh
everywhere...............


ROTFLMAO!

Lynne
April 10th 07, 03:46 AM
on Tue, 10 Apr 2007 02:36:53 GMT, "Lenny Schwartz" >
wrote:

> poor Delusional Dougie, he sees Rush Limbaugh
> everywhere...............
>
>
> ROTFLMAO!

Take this crap to rec.politics.for.idiots

--
Lynne

Lenny Schwartz
April 10th 07, 04:04 AM
**** YOU


"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> on Tue, 10 Apr 2007 02:36:53 GMT, "Lenny Schwartz" >
> wrote:
>
>> poor Delusional Dougie, he sees Rush Limbaugh
>> everywhere...............
>>
>>
>> ROTFLMAO!
>
> Take this crap to rec.politics.for.idiots
>
> --
> Lynne

Lynne
April 10th 07, 04:05 AM
on Tue, 10 Apr 2007 03:04:44 GMT, "Lenny Schwartz" >
wrote:

> **** YOU

No thanks.

<plonk idiot>

--
Lynne

Lenny Schwartz
April 10th 07, 04:10 AM
**** YOU
moron

PLONK





"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> on Tue, 10 Apr 2007 03:04:44 GMT, "Lenny Schwartz" >
> wrote:
>
>> **** YOU
>
> No thanks.
>
> <plonk idiot>
>
> --
> Lynne

Cat Shit
April 10th 07, 04:22 AM
take this ****** to alt.cat.****



"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> on Tue, 10 Apr 2007 03:04:44 GMT, "Lenny Schwartz" >
> wrote:
>
>> **** YOU
>
> No thanks.
>
> <plonk idiot>
>
> --
> Lynne

Doug Bashford
April 10th 07, 05:13 AM
in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,
In >
On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 22:21:54 -0400, Lenny Schwartz said about:
Re: Wheat Gluten from China?!?!


>
> "Doug Bashford" > ****ed & moaned in a message >
> > //// Psycho - Babble Flushed here ////
>
>
> poor Delusional Dougie. took him four days to answer, after he stopped
> taking his Zoloft.


That makes two wild-eyed know-knothing
dittohead parrots and kooks in a row who
cannot respond to a singe point I made.
Typical mindless cowardly sissy hawks.
You guys are just toothless yap dog parrots.
No wonder you are losers.

I find your type so confirming.

Thanks!


Rush Limbaugh:
"Voters who voted yesterday believe that
Republicans are; "the big government party now."
How can you blame them?"
-- Rush Limbaugh November 8, 2006

Poor, sad, bad comedian.

He has de-educated America. ...made facts and logic
irrelevant. Made finding Truth impossible for his devotees.
He has ruined them, they now distrust even science itself.
For that, he should be hung.

** "Fascism should more properly be called
** corporatism, since it is the merger of state
** and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.


We've ALWAYS been at war with Eastasia!

Google: Results about 9,420 for
orwell 1984 "ALWAYS been at war with Eastasia!"

Google: Results about 69,500 for
Bush "We've NEVER been Stay the Course!"



"We don't have an illegal alien problem in the United States.
We have an illegal employer problem."
--Thom Hartmann

Fact is, if we started tossing some of those
illegal employers in jail, we'd have to widen our
border ports to let the all the Mexicans rush back.

Repub: But they do jobs Americans won't!

Nonesense.
That's a clear violation of simple economics. There
is no such thing. But there are jobs Americans won't
do *at Mexican wages.*

Repub: OK, but if wages go up by say, 50%, then
prices will go way up too.

So all the Rich Boy huggers tell us, all the time.
That seems to make sense, but it just ain't so. Labor
costs only have a small effect on prices. Prices are
not determined by labor costs, but rather, by what the market
will bear. If labor costs go way down, prices do not.
What happens is, profits and fat go up. For example, look
at $150 Nike shoes made by sweatshops for $3. Or look
at all our jobs lost to sweatshop nations. But if salaries
went up by say, 50%, manufacturers would yes, have to
work up a sweat, get off their fat asses, and get more
competative, effecient, (and other well known economic
forces,) and prices would only go up a little.

But if salaries went up by say, 50%, what would happen is,
the middle class would grow. That scares the hell out of
the Rich Boys. We have just now transitioned from economic
theory, to political theory.

Repub: OK, let's say that might be true. If so, what are the
three biggest things you claim are currently destroying
the middle class?

1) Free market ideology like NAFTA; as opposed to fair market;
2) a variety of practices to drive down the cost of labor -- from
destruction of the union movement to encouragement of immigration,
both legal and illegal; and
3) the promotion of the idea that democratic institutions are an
aberration, that vast wealth is the natural order of things in the
human and animal kingdoms.

Teddy Roosevelt was the first in the modern era to identify what
it would mean to have a middle class in a society that wasn't
propped up by slavery and land taken from the Native Americans
(which was largely responsible for the first middle class, in the
1700s).

The Republican Roosevelt realized that without government
intervention clearly defining the rules of business to serve
society as well as capitalism, there couldn't be a middle class.

Roosevelt suggested that the hallmarks of a "living wage" (he was
the first person to use that phrase), were that with an honest
week's work, a single family's wage-earner would be able to
support their family, raise their children, provide education for
those children -- including college, care for all their health
needs -- even in times of sickness (quoting Roosevelt), take an
annual vacation, and set enough aside that retirement and old age
would be comfortable and secure.

Now all that is sytematically being destroyed.

Wanna find out what I'm talking about? Find out what the
father of conservatism said about ruling the middle class.
That would be Edmund Burke (1729-1797). He is the brain
of the conservative brains, constantly cited by modern brains
such as Buckley.
He says men are stupid, and so, should be clones of the state:
"We are afraid to put men to live and trade each on
his own private stock of reason, because we suspect
that this stock in each man is small, and that the
individuals would do better to avail themselves of
the general bank and capital of nations and ages."

Burke hated the Enlightenment which brought our Jeffersonian
democracy and Constitution, and argued instead for the value of
state and "tradition."

Conservatives distrust and hate the middle class.
Conservativism is descibed as "the constant need to maintain
political, moral, and economic dikes against the ever-swelling sea
of popular ignorance, cupidity, violence, barbarism, and
fertility."[6] "

Conservatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Edmund Burke is often considered the father of conservatism in
Anglo-American circles. In the United Kingdom, Burkean
conservatism continues on, ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism - 74k -

Even today, they play you guys like a tin drum for votes.

Burke's family was, "the only other Gaelic Catholic group managing
to protect its lands from restrictions of the penal laws and
encroachment of growing middle-class interests. The Nagles,
therefore, achieved a position of influence and connection
unequalled by any other Catholic family in Ireland. (4)"

Check it out! Google "Edmund Burke" "middle class"
(keep the quotes)

--Doug



"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people
tolerate the growth of private power to a point where
it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself.
That in it's essence is fascism: ownership of the
government by an individual, by a group or any
controlling private power."
-- Franklin Delano Roosevelt, message to congress,
proposing the "Standard Oil" Monopoly Investigation, 1938


--

When one gains a political certainty akin to
a loyal sports fan, one has achieved the final
tranquility of servitude, a joyous slavery.


"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude better than
the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that ye were
our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams, August 1, 1776

Doug Bashford
April 10th 07, 06:01 AM
On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 21:46:51 -0500, Lynne said about:
Re: Delusional Dougie


> on Tue, 10 Apr 2007 02:36:53 GMT, "Lenny Schwartz" >
> wrote:
>
> > poor Delusional Dougie, he sees Rush Limbaugh
> > everywhere...............
> >
> >
> > ROTFLMAO!
>
> Take this crap to rec.politics.for.idiots
>
> --
> Lynne

I see yer point.

But if this thing is caused by a drift in
political philosophy, you'd want to hear the
evidence right? So you could correct it?
Before it got worse?

I see it as just one piece in a mosaic which
plainly shows a shift from corporate and
government responsibity, to consumer responsibility.
In a word: degregulation. (grossly oversimplified)

....all the recent food and drug poisonings, the fact
that eggs must now be refridgerated, they can no
longer be eaten/drank raw, you can no longer order a rare hamburger at
a resteraunt.......long long list.

And seemingly unrelated stuff like skyrocketing health care,
again, long list.

All these are better/cheaper for government and corporations,
and cost you and me...mostly in quality of life.
All these tiny "problems" add up.
(And if the bad-drug heart attack is yours, it's no tiny "problem".)

Declining quality of life in America was unthinkable when
I grew up.

If this is all caused by a direction in
political philosophy, you'd want to hear the
evidence right? So you could correct it?
Before it got even worse?

** "Fascism should more properly be called
** corporatism, since it is the merger of state
** and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

words mean something


--

When one gains a political certainty akin to
a loyal sports fan, one has achieved the final
tranquility of servitude, a joyous slavery.


"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude better than
the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that ye were
our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams, August 1, 1776

Cat Shit
April 10th 07, 02:06 PM
"Doug Bashford" > wrote in message
////// Psycho-Babble snipped here /////



Still searching for his lost Zoloft, Delusional Dougie
babbles on & on & on..............

LOL!

Cat Shit
April 10th 07, 02:07 PM
"Doug Bashford" > babbled in a message:
//// snip /////


Delusional Dougie babbles on..........

Doug Bashford
April 10th 07, 02:32 PM
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:06:02 -0400, Cat **** said about:
Delusional Dougie Babbles On


>
> "Doug Bashford" > wrote in message
> ////// Psycho-Babble snipped here /////
>
>
>
> Still searching for his lost Zoloft, Delusional Dougie
> babbles on & on & on..............


Typical mindless toothless yap dog can only
delete and squeal. We wonder why. We
wonder not: Are you out of ammo, but
rather: Did you ever even have any?

Poor, typical fraidycat dittohead parrot. Awwwww.....
you poor frightened, paralyzed thing!
No wonder you support torture, sleaze and cowards.

DUDE!

V O T E R E P U B L I C A N !

--

When one gains a political certainty akin to
a loyal sports fan, one has achieved the final
tranquility of servitude, a joyous slavery.


"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude better than
the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that ye were
our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams, August 1, 1776

Cat Shit
April 10th 07, 04:14 PM
Delusional Dougie still hasn't found his Zoloft.

LOL!