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Stacia
April 12th 07, 08:15 AM
Are there any good dry diet foods out there? We have 3 cats, two of
which are normal weight, but our cat Simon is quite large. He's 18
pounds, probably should be about 14 according to the vet. We had him on
prescription bland diet for a while, then back to Purina One healthy
weight. The vet said that should be fine, but I notice he's still very
slowly gaining weight, about .8 of a pound since January.
The difficulty is our two older cats just don't acclimate to a
scheduled feeing, they're too used to having kibble to graze on. I'd
like to get a kibble I can leave out that will keep Simon from gaining
more, and maybe have him lose some of the 4-5 pounds he needs to lose.
So I'm looking at Hill's prescription diet kibble and it's got corn
meal, and I wonder if that's healthy for cats? Do any of you use it,
and if so, how has it worked?

Stacia

Rene S.
April 12th 07, 02:13 PM
IMHO, there are *no* good dry diet foods for cats. Years ago, I tried
several, including Nutro Max, Science Diet (Lite and two prescription
formulas), and Purina. Even with carefully measured portions and no
treats, my cat gained a lot of weight. I put my cat on a high-quality
canned diet, and he slowly lost the weight. Today, about three years
later, he's maintained his weight. If you have questions, email me or
visit my cat's weight-loss page: http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/

Rene

sheelagh
April 12th 07, 03:13 PM
On 12 Apr, 14:13, "Rene S." > wrote:
> IMHO, there are *no* good dry diet foods for cats. Years ago, I tried
> several, including Nutro Max, Science Diet (Lite and two prescription
> formulas), and Purina. Even with carefully measured portions and no
> treats, my cat gained a lot of weight. I put my cat on a high-quality
> canned diet, and he slowly lost the weight. Today, about three years
> later, he's maintained his weight. If you have questions, email me or
> visit my cat's weight-loss page:http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/
>
> Rene

Hi Rene,
I feed all of my cats on a dry diet which I leave out for the cats to
graze @ all day & night, then supplement it with whiskers wet food
twice a day.
Is this a bad diet for them?
Mine don't have any weight issues & the reason I use dry is because
they prefer it & it also has the added bonus of firm stools which to
me is an very important factor..
Should I be cutting down on the dry foods and building on the wet food
instead?
S;o)

cindys
April 12th 07, 03:23 PM
My cats have lost weight on a diet of good quality canned food (now I'm
using Pet Promise but I was using Fancy Feast) and dry Purina OM (Overweight
management) from the veterinarian. Dry food is primarily carbohydrates which
are high calorie and not part of the cats' natural diet. You want to limit
that if you can. I had my cats on Iams Weight Control (dry) for years, and
they were still overweight. You might want to think about providing a mostly
canned food diet at least for Simon and your other cats too if they will eat
it, and then leave out the dry stuff for them to graze so they won't feel
deprived, but they hopefully won't eat as much of it because they will
mostly be filling up on the canned food (which is what you want), and
hopefully Simon will lose weight.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.


"Stacia" > wrote in message
...
> Are there any good dry diet foods out there? We have 3 cats, two of
> which are normal weight, but our cat Simon is quite large. He's 18
> pounds, probably should be about 14 according to the vet. We had him on
> prescription bland diet for a while, then back to Purina One healthy
> weight. The vet said that should be fine, but I notice he's still very
> slowly gaining weight, about .8 of a pound since January.
> The difficulty is our two older cats just don't acclimate to a
> scheduled feeing, they're too used to having kibble to graze on. I'd
> like to get a kibble I can leave out that will keep Simon from gaining
> more, and maybe have him lose some of the 4-5 pounds he needs to lose.
> So I'm looking at Hill's prescription diet kibble and it's got corn
> meal, and I wonder if that's healthy for cats? Do any of you use it,
> and if so, how has it worked?
>
> Stacia
>

cybercat
April 12th 07, 03:24 PM
"Stacia" > wrote in message
...
> Are there any good dry diet foods out there?

You've probably read about how canned food helped my cat lose weight.

And, I have another cat that is so skinny, I leave her dry food out 24
hours.
She hardly touches it, and neither does my formerly fat cat.

Because they both love canned food so much better. It is meatier and
satisfying.

I think one reason cats get fat on dry is because they are like people who
want
a steak, but only have popcorn, so they eat wayyy too much popcorn trying
to get satisfied. And popcorn may be lower in fat than steak, but it is
starchy
and enough of that will cause fat.

They lower calories by lowering fat in the dry foods. Your cat gets less
nutrition.
I think you will get nowhere by free-feeding dry, diet or otherwise. Your
cat will just eat more to make up for what she is missing.

You *can* get all your cats used to schedule feedings of canned food only,
it will just take some effort on your part. It is a lot less convenient for
humans
than dry. But this way, everyone will get better nutrition, and the cats can
still
be together during the day, instead of separated because some get dry and
one
cannot.

cindys
April 12th 07, 04:54 PM
My cats have lost weight on a diet of good quality canned food (now I'm
using Pet Promise but I was using Fancy Feast) and dry Purina OM (Overweight
management) from the veterinarian. Dry food is primarily carbohydrates which
are high calorie and not part of the cats' natural diet. You want to limit
that if you can. I had my cats on Iams Weight Control (dry) for years, and
they were still overweight. You might want to think about providing a mostly
canned food diet at least for Simon and your other cats too if they will eat
it, and then leave out the dry stuff for them to graze so they won't feel
deprived, but they hopefully won't eat as much of it because they will
mostly be filling up on the canned food (which is what you want), and
hopefully Simon will lose weight.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.


"Stacia" > wrote in message
...
> Are there any good dry diet foods out there? We have 3 cats, two of
> which are normal weight, but our cat Simon is quite large. He's 18
> pounds, probably should be about 14 according to the vet. We had him on
> prescription bland diet for a while, then back to Purina One healthy
> weight. The vet said that should be fine, but I notice he's still very
> slowly gaining weight, about .8 of a pound since January.
> The difficulty is our two older cats just don't acclimate to a
> scheduled feeing, they're too used to having kibble to graze on. I'd
> like to get a kibble I can leave out that will keep Simon from gaining
> more, and maybe have him lose some of the 4-5 pounds he needs to lose.
> So I'm looking at Hill's prescription diet kibble and it's got corn
> meal, and I wonder if that's healthy for cats? Do any of you use it,
> and if so, how has it worked?
>
> Stacia
>

PawsForThought
April 12th 07, 05:55 PM
One of the problems with a dry food diet is that it does not satisfy a
cat, who is an obligate carnivore. The cat has to eat more of the
food to satisfy its nutritional requirements. Many cats will gain on
dry food, even the prescription ones (which just add more fiber).
Cats need animal protein, not plant protein. Here's a great website
for information on feeding a cat:

http://www.catinfo.org/

Rene S.
April 12th 07, 07:26 PM
Another important factor is that an overweight cat is also a health
risk--such as pre diabetes. Here are some read-articles on feline
nutrition:

http://www.catinfo.org/
http://www.catnutrition.org/diabetes.html

Rene S.
April 12th 07, 09:12 PM
On Apr 12, 11:55 am, "PawsForThought" > wrote:
> One of the problems with a dry food diet is that it does not satisfy a
> cat, who is an obligate carnivore. The cat has to eat more of the
> food to satisfy its nutritional requirements. Many cats will gain on
> dry food, even the prescription ones (which just add more fiber).
> Cats need animal protein, not plant protein. Here's a great website
> for information on feeding a cat:
>
> http://www.catinfo.org/

This is a great web site! I refer to it often.

cindys
April 12th 07, 10:36 PM
"PawsForThought" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> One of the problems with a dry food diet is that it does not satisfy a
> cat, who is an obligate carnivore. The cat has to eat more of the
> food to satisfy its nutritional requirements. Many cats will gain on
> dry food, even the prescription ones (which just add more fiber).
> Cats need animal protein, not plant protein. Here's a great website
> for information on feeding a cat:
>
> http://www.catinfo.org/
--------
After reading this website, I am going to try to convert my cats completely
over to Wellness (canned) food and minimize the OM dry food as much as
possible. I am sick at the thought that I could have hastened/caused Molly
(and now Alex) to develop CRF because I spent so many years feeding them
Iams dry food. And then, there's Bullwinkle, my other senior kitty, who
could be heading in the same direction. On the subject of diabetes, it's
amazing how Alex's blood glucose levels have never been over 90 since I
eliminated Iams and switched to canned food (even the crappy stuff) and OM
(even the dry stuff).
Thank you so much for providing this weblink. I just wish I had could have
read it 15 years ago. FTR, I still think the Pet Promise canned food (which
I am currently feeding) them is huge improvement over the Friskies, but I
still think the Wellness is a lot better (no brown rice). BTW, does anyone
know how much it costs (for a 5.5 can?)
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Stacia
April 12th 07, 11:32 PM
"cindys" > writes:

>My cats have lost weight on a diet of good quality canned food (now I'm
>using Pet Promise but I was using Fancy Feast) and dry Purina OM (Overweight
>management) from the veterinarian. Dry food is primarily carbohydrates which
>are high calorie and not part of the cats' natural diet. You want to limit
>that if you can.

So even in the really good dry foods there's a lot of grains and
fillers? That sucks. I suppose they need it to hold it all together
into kibbly bits.
The vet is supposed to call me back about some diet food, so I'll ask
about the wet and the dry both.

Stacia

Sherry
April 13th 07, 12:00 AM
On Apr 12, 11:55 am, "PawsForThought" > wrote:
> One of the problems with a dry food diet is that it does not satisfy a
> cat, who is an obligate carnivore. The cat has to eat more of the
> food to satisfy its nutritional requirements. Many cats will gain on
> dry food, even the prescription ones (which just add more fiber).
> Cats need animal protein, not plant protein. Here's a great website
> for information on feeding a cat:
>
> http://www.catinfo.org/

I can offer anecdotal evidence that this is true. Years ago, I fed dry
food -- we just didn't
know better back then -- and I had trouble with cats being too fat. I
still feed *some*
dry--but the majority is wet food. All mine are an ideal weight, and
really don't
beg for food after they've been fed.

Sherry

chatnoir
April 13th 07, 12:04 AM
On Apr 12, 8:13 am, "sheelagh" > wrote:
> On 12 Apr, 14:13, "Rene S." > wrote:
>
> > IMHO, there are *no* good dry diet foods for cats. Years ago, I tried
> > several, including Nutro Max, Science Diet (Lite and two prescription
> > formulas), and Purina. Even with carefully measured portions and no
> > treats, my cat gained a lot of weight. I put my cat on a high-quality
> > canned diet, and he slowly lost the weight. Today, about three years
> > later, he's maintained his weight. If you have questions, email me or
> > visit my cat's weight-loss page:http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/
>
> > Rene
>
> Hi Rene,
> I feed all of my cats on a dry diet which I leave out for the cats to
> graze @ all day & night,


I use to do that; But one of the new Kittens is a Vacuum Cleaner! He
just keeps on eating, so I have to pick up the food!


then supplement it with whiskers wet food
> twice a day.
> Is this a bad diet for them?
> Mine don't have any weight issues & the reason I use dry is because
> they prefer it & it also has the added bonus of firm stools which to
> me is an very important factor..
> Should I be cutting down on the dry foods and building on the wet food
> instead?
> S;o)

cindys
April 13th 07, 12:59 AM
"Stacia" > wrote in message
...
> "cindys" > writes:
>
>>My cats have lost weight on a diet of good quality canned food (now I'm
>>using Pet Promise but I was using Fancy Feast) and dry Purina OM
>>(Overweight
>>management) from the veterinarian. Dry food is primarily carbohydrates
>>which
>>are high calorie and not part of the cats' natural diet. You want to limit
>>that if you can.
>
> So even in the really good dry foods there's a lot of grains and
> fillers? That sucks. I suppose they need it to hold it all together
> into kibbly bits.
> The vet is supposed to call me back about some diet food, so I'll ask
> about the wet and the dry both.
-------
After looking through the website PawsforThought provided, the cat food that
sounds the best to me by description is Wellness (canned) because the main
ingredients are muscle protein (not byproducts) and very little carbohydrate
(only 3% to 5%). I don't know if I will be able to convince all my kitties
to eat it, and for me, it's kind of hard to feed only canned, as we have
issues with Bullwinkle eating everyone else's food and the other cats back
off (even though Bullwinkle is easily the most gentle and easygoing of all
my kitties). This morning, after Bullwinkle had eaten his serving of canned
food, I put him out of the room, set Alex (my CRF kitty who had seemed to
reject the canned food entirely this morning) on the kitchen table and put
another serviing of canned food in front of him. He ate with a healthy
appetite. So, apparently, I will need to do this every day. My kitties still
graze on the Purina OM (overweight management prescription food from the
vet), but I am hoping to be able to cut back on this (if I can feel
confident that they are all eating a sufficient amount of canned food -
hopefully they will like the Wellness). If you are set on going for a dry
food (hopefully in addition to and not in place of the canned), I think the
Purina OM would be a good choice. It is relatively low carbohydrate as dry
food goes, my cats have lost weight on it, and Alex (my formerly diabetic
cat) continues to have normal blood glucoses without supplemental insulin.
Good luck to you.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Lynne
April 13th 07, 02:24 AM
on Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:32:50 GMT, (Stacia) wrote:

> So even in the really good dry foods there's a lot of grains and
> fillers? That sucks. I suppose they need it to hold it all together
> into kibbly bits.

I like the Innova Evo dry food. No grains whatsoever, and my cats really
like it. My older cat is slowly losing weight on it, too. I had planned
to use this only as a transitional food while I switched my wet-food
resistant boy over to wet, but the pet food scare set us back a bit on that
plan.

--
Lynne

cindys
April 13th 07, 03:27 AM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> on Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:32:50 GMT, (Stacia) wrote:
>
>> So even in the really good dry foods there's a lot of grains and
>> fillers? That sucks. I suppose they need it to hold it all together
>> into kibbly bits.
>
> I like the Innova Evo dry food. No grains whatsoever, and my cats really
> like it. My older cat is slowly losing weight on it, too. I had planned
> to use this only as a transitional food while I switched my wet-food
> resistant boy over to wet, but the pet food scare set us back a bit on
> that
> plan.
--------
Just as a caveat, not as a criticism at all, I think it should be noted that
Innova Evo is only for cats with normal kidney function. The website
mentions that it has a high phosphorous content, so it's not a good choice
for cats who are showing signs of CRF (chronic renal insufficiency). For
anyone who doesn't know, a common sign of CRF is excessive thirst and
urination (also signs of diabetes).
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Stacia
April 13th 07, 03:53 AM
"cindys" > writes:

>food (hopefully in addition to and not in place of the canned), I think the
>Purina OM would be a good choice.

Which one is this? I found canned Purina OM online but not dry.
I'm really in a bind with the cats. Simon needs to lose weight badly,
but on the same token our oldest, Reggie, has huge food issues. He gets
stressed and eats his fur, vomits, and his feline herpesvirus issues
flare up when we don't have kibble for him to graze on. He also can't
handle scheduled wet feedings, even when kibble is left out. We've
tried several times over the years, and the schedule isn't the problem
as much as it's Reggie's health.
We could possibly put the dry out for everyone and feed Simon
separately in another room. It's stressful but not unmanageable - we
did it for our old cat Spam when he needed a CRT diet. I'm just afraid
Simon's food issues (gobbling everything up, even eating things that
aren't food) will mean he'd eat too much dry even after being fed the
wet.

Stacia

cindys
April 13th 07, 04:22 AM
"Stacia" > wrote in message
...
> "cindys" > writes:
>
>>food (hopefully in addition to and not in place of the canned), I think
>>the
>>Purina OM would be a good choice.
>
> Which one is this? I found canned Purina OM online but not dry.

The OM stands for "Overweight management." It's a prescription cat food that
you usually buy from a veterinarian. It's available in both dry and canned.
If you want to try it, you may as well buy it from a veterinarian. I did
some price comparisons (vet versus online) and the price is the same (except
when you buy it online, you have to pay shipping costs as well).


> I'm really in a bind with the cats. Simon needs to lose weight badly,
> but on the same token our oldest, Reggie, has huge food issues. He gets
> stressed and eats his fur, vomits, and his feline herpesvirus issues
> flare up when we don't have kibble for him to graze on.

All five of my cats (three of whom are young and healthy and not overweight)
were eating Purina OM dry. My vet said that was fine. It is sometimes a
problem to feed cats a prescription diet for a health condition they don't
have. For example, the vet would have liked me to put Alex (my CRF kitty) on
a special kidney diet, but since all my cats graze, she said it would not be
a good idea for the household as a whole because kidney diet (low protein
content) would be really bad for my young, healthy cats. From what I've
read, it doesn't seem like there is any conclusive evidence that low protein
"kidney diets" are actually good for cats with renal disease either, but
that's a different issue. Ask you vet about Purina OM and see what he/she
says.

> He also can't
> handle scheduled wet feedings, even when kibble is left out. We've
> tried several times over the years, and the schedule isn't the problem
> as much as it's Reggie's health.

His health has to be the priority. In October, I lost a cat to CRF. For the
last year of Molly's life, she basically lived on human tuna, which I
supplemented with feline vitamins. Of course, a diet of human tuna was not a
good diet for a cat (even with the added vitamins), but it was the only
thing she would eat, and the first priority was ensuring she didn't starve
to death.

> We could possibly put the dry out for everyone and feed Simon
> separately in another room. It's stressful but not unmanageable - we
> did it for our old cat Spam when he needed a CRT diet. I'm just afraid
> Simon's food issues (gobbling everything up, even eating things that
> aren't food) will mean he'd eat too much dry even after being fed the
> wet.

Can you feed him the wet and then put out the dry after he's already eaten
(so he won't be quite so ravenous)?
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Lynne
April 13th 07, 04:50 AM
on Fri, 13 Apr 2007 02:27:11 GMT, "cindys" >
wrote:

> Just as a caveat, not as a criticism at all, I think it should be
> noted that Innova Evo is only for cats with normal kidney function.
> The website mentions that it has a high phosphorous content, so it's
> not a good choice for cats who are showing signs of CRF (chronic renal
> insufficiency). For anyone who doesn't know, a common sign of CRF is
> excessive thirst and urination (also signs of diabetes).

I'm glad you pointed that out, because it hadn't even occured to me since
both of mine are so young. My old guy, Calvin, was on a special kidney
diet for a great many years before he left this earth. No way could he
have eaten Evo and lived as long as he did and in such good health after he
was diagosed with kidney disease.

--
Lynne

Meghan Noecker
April 13th 07, 08:46 AM
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:15:23 +0000 (UTC), (Stacia)
wrote:

> Are there any good dry diet foods out there? We have 3 cats, two of
>which are normal weight, but our cat Simon is quite large. He's 18
>pounds, probably should be about 14 according to the vet. We had him on
>prescription bland diet for a while, then back to Purina One healthy
>weight. The vet said that should be fine, but I notice he's still very
>slowly gaining weight, about .8 of a pound since January.
> The difficulty is our two older cats just don't acclimate to a
>scheduled feeing, they're too used to having kibble to graze on. I'd
>like to get a kibble I can leave out that will keep Simon from gaining
>more, and maybe have him lose some of the 4-5 pounds he needs to lose.
> So I'm looking at Hill's prescription diet kibble and it's got corn
>meal, and I wonder if that's healthy for cats? Do any of you use it,
>and if so, how has it worked?
>


I had better luck with weight loss when I switched to a regular food
with larger kibbles. Jay Jay wasinhaling the smaller kibbles, even the
diet food. But the larger kibbles took longer to eat, so he slowed
down and was satisfied better. He lost weight and then settled at a
good weight.

Rene S.
April 13th 07, 02:50 PM
> Thank you so much for providing this weblink. I just wish I had could have
> read it 15 years ago. FTR, I still think the Pet Promise canned food (which
> I am currently feeding) them is huge improvement over the Friskies, but I
> still think the Wellness is a lot better (no brown rice). BTW, does anyone
> know how much it costs (for a 5.5 can?)
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.

Prices for Wellness vary, from $.95 to $1.24 per can. I found it best
to go to the manufacturer's web site, use the store locator, and then
call around. When you call, ask if a) they have a per-case discount
(lots of places do, but they might not have it marked that way on the
shelf) and b) if they have a punch-card or other discount card. I
found a place that had *both*, and I saved quite a bit of money this
way. The web site is: www.ohmpet.com

cindys
April 13th 07, 03:16 PM
"Rene S." > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> Thank you so much for providing this weblink. I just wish I had could
>> have
>> read it 15 years ago. FTR, I still think the Pet Promise canned food
>> (which
>> I am currently feeding) them is huge improvement over the Friskies, but I
>> still think the Wellness is a lot better (no brown rice). BTW, does
>> anyone
>> know how much it costs (for a 5.5 can?)
>> Best regards,
>> ---Cindy S.
>
> Prices for Wellness vary, from $.95 to $1.24 per can. I found it best
> to go to the manufacturer's web site, use the store locator, and then
> call around. When you call, ask if a) they have a per-case discount
> (lots of places do, but they might not have it marked that way on the
> shelf) and b) if they have a punch-card or other discount card. I
> found a place that had *both*, and I saved quite a bit of money this
> way. The web site is: www.ohmpet.com
----------
Thank you. I went to the site and was able to locate a couple of places in
my city that sell Wellness. One of the places is a natural foods store. I
would buy only a few cans at first to see if my cats will eat it. If they
will, there are some places not too far from me that advertise "free
shipping," but it's not really "free" if they're charging a higher price for
the food itself in order to compensate.

The Pet Promise pet food that I have been using actually seems to be a very
good quality food. It contains muscle meat, no byproducts, no wheat gluten,
no rendered meats or fats, no ingredients from animals that were factory
farmed or fed antibiotics, no artificial colors or flavors. For the fish
varieties, muscle proteins comprise three out of the first four ingredients
(the fourth ingredient is broth). For the chicken variety, muscle meat
compromise two of the first three ingredients (again, the third ingredient
is broth). The other ingredients (besides the added vitamins) are carrots,
potatoes, and brown rice (not necessarily in that order). My sole misgiving
about Pet Promise is the brown rice ingredient. But it must not contain a
whole lot of brown rice because it's relatively far down on the list (at
least for the fish varieties). For the chicken variety, it's the fourth
ingredient. What would be your opinion of this cat food? (compared to
Wellness)

http://www.petpromiseinc.com/products.htm

Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Rene S.
April 13th 07, 07:25 PM
>
> The Pet Promise pet food that I have been using actually seems to be a very
> good quality food. It contains muscle meat, no byproducts, no wheat gluten,
> no rendered meats or fats, no ingredients from animals that were factory
> farmed or fed antibiotics, no artificial colors or flavors. For the fish
> varieties, muscle proteins comprise three out of the first four ingredients
> (the fourth ingredient is broth). For the chicken variety, muscle meat
> compromise two of the first three ingredients (again, the third ingredient
> is broth). The other ingredients (besides the added vitamins) are carrots,
> potatoes, and brown rice (not necessarily in that order). My sole misgiving
> about Pet Promise is the brown rice ingredient. But it must not contain a
> whole lot of brown rice because it's relatively far down on the list (at
> least for the fish varieties). For the chicken variety, it's the fourth
> ingredient. What would be your opinion of this cat food? (compared to
> Wellness)
>
> http://www.petpromiseinc.com/products.htm

Hi Cindy,

I tried to post earlier, but my message isn't appearing. Apologies if
it appears twice. I hadn't heard of this brand before, but after
reviewing the web site, it appears to be a good food. The only things
that bother me are the brown rice and potato protein (what is it? A
carbohydrate?). My other concern is that there is only one non-fish
flavor of canned. I know some cats have allergies/problems with fish
food. However, this food is far better than many brands and the
company obviously is trying to make a healthy product. Personally, I
feel Wellness is still a better-quality food, but if you're having
troubles finding it or your cats don't like it, Pet Promise is a good
option.