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cindys
April 18th 07, 03:47 AM
I know somebody asked this question just recently but from the perspective
of trying to help the cats lose weight. I would like to see my cats maintain
their current weights. How much canned food should I feed a cat to maintain
a weight of 11 or 12 pounds (assuming the cat is eating only canned food and
no dry at all) ? The labels on the cans sound really high (they suggest
feeding about an ounce of canned food per day per pound of cat weight, which
would suggest that a 12-pound cat should eat about two 5.5-ounce cans of
canned cat food per day). My cats have been eating about a quarter of that,
and I can't see that they've lost any weight, but then again, they are
still eating some dry food, so that may be the reason. Thanks in advance.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Cheryl
April 18th 07, 04:03 AM
On Tue 17 Apr 2007 10:47:09p, cindys wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
>:

> I know somebody asked this question just recently but from the
> perspective of trying to help the cats lose weight. I would like
> to see my cats maintain their current weights. How much canned
> food should I feed a cat to maintain a weight of 11 or 12 pounds
> (assuming the cat is eating only canned food and no dry at all)
> ? The labels on the cans sound really high (they suggest feeding
> about an ounce of canned food per day per pound of cat weight,
> which would suggest that a 12-pound cat should eat about two
> 5.5-ounce cans of canned cat food per day). My cats have been
> eating about a quarter of that, and I can't see that they've
> lost any weight, but then again, they are still eating some dry
> food, so that may be the reason. Thanks in advance. Best
> regards, ---Cindy S.
>
>
>

Cindy, if you can get your cats to eat only canned without grazing
dry food, even if just a little, your job is easier. You could try
the scientific method; determine the kcal needs based on gender,
activity level, health, neuter status (neutered, I know!). Or, you
could see how much they will eat during a set period of time for 2
feedings a day. Pick up leftovers, throw them out. A little bit of
waste at first until you see how much it is without weight loss or
gain. Sounds cryptic? LOL I know! But I don't think that what
works for one cat will work for another. Out of my current 4 cats,
3 are a healthy weight, and two eat mostly canned food. Sometimes
they are hungrier than other times, and I'll even split another 3oz
can if they gobble up what I give them in the first 30 minutes. As
long as the appetite fluctuations aren't frequent, which might
indicate a health problem. My two canned food predominant cats
split 1 5.5oz can in the morning, and eat at least 1 3oz can each
for dinner. How much dry do they eat on average? Shamrock eats
maybe a mouthful a day, and the amount of dry Scarlett eats depends
on what the canned offerings were.

--
Cheryl

MaryL
April 18th 07, 04:15 AM
"cindys" > wrote in message
...
>I know somebody asked this question just recently but from the perspective
>of trying to help the cats lose weight. I would like to see my cats
>maintain their current weights. How much canned food should I feed a cat to
>maintain a weight of 11 or 12 pounds (assuming the cat is eating only
>canned food and no dry at all) ? The labels on the cans sound really high
>(they suggest feeding about an ounce of canned food per day per pound of
>cat weight, which would suggest that a 12-pound cat should eat about two
>5.5-ounce cans of canned cat food per day). My cats have been eating about
>a quarter of that, and I can't see that they've lost any weight, but then
>again, they are still eating some dry food, so that may be the reason.
>Thanks in advance.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
>

I changed to Wellness canned and Felidae canned when I adopted Duffy. Prior
to that time, I had been letting Holly free feed on dry food (Iams hairball
control). After I changed to Wellness and Felidae, Holly's weight dropped
back to her optimal level. This came as a surprise to me because I didn't
make the change for weight-reduction reasons. I changed because I had been
reading about improved health with premium canned food, and Duffy was
extremely thin at the time of adoption. (I used Innova for awhile for Duffy
because he needed to gain weight, then changed both cats to Wellness and
Felidae.) This diet worked very well, but I later changed to Wellness canned
and Innova EVO canned. Holly and Duffy are both thriving on the diet, and
their weight has remained completely stable at what I consider to be their
ideal weights.

Each of my cats get 1/3 can twice per day (5.5 oz. cans). I open one can for
one meal and use 2/3 of it, divided between the two cats, then repeat the
process for the next meal. The remainder is refrigerated, then two cans are
combined for the next meal. Thus, 2 cans = 3 meals. Of course, the portion
size would need to be calculated for each individual cat. (One of my cats
weighs 8 lbs. and the other weighs 9 lbs.) Some time ago, I read a
recommendation for 30 calories per pound, but my experience has been
portions of that size would be a great way to cause a cat to *gain* weight
(not lose)! I don't even use as much as the amount that the Wellness can
lists. Wellness says 1 can per day is typical for an 8 to 10 pound adult
cat. Of course, my two would be at the "lower" end of the Wellness "typical"
size scale. Other friends I have talked to have noticed the same thing.
Again, I think the "recommended" caloric intake is likely to lead to fat
cats (in much the same way as I learned in the past that I could personally
gain a lot of weight on an "average" intake of calories).

So, how to calculate? One 5.5 oz. can of Wellness chicken formula has 181
calories. This means that my cats are getting between 13 and 14 calories per
pound per day, and their weight has remained constant on this diet. Other
varieties of Wellness will vary slightly, but this gives a reasonable
approximation. A lot seems to depend on the quality of the food as well as
the amount of calories being fed.

My cats are active and very healthy. They have beautiful glossy coats, and I
noticed that Holly's dandruff completely disappeared after I adopted this
diet - another unexpected bonus. Holly is solid black, so those little bits
of dandruff showed up on her coat while they would probably not be noticed
on another color. Her vet always considered her to be in excellent shape,
but now her coat is so shiny it seems to glow. Both cats always seem
satisfied. I never see signs of hunger (except that they have a healthy
appetite at mealtime). Interestingly, this diet doesn't cost as much extra
as I expected because my furbabies don't eat as much as when I used dry food
(and free feeding). This was still another pleasant surprise.

Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'<
Duffy: http://tinyurl.com/cslwf
Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o
Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e

body sweat
April 18th 07, 04:21 AM
On Apr 17, 10:47 pm, "cindys" > wrote:
> I know somebody asked this question just recently but from the perspective
> of trying to help the cats lose weight. I would like to see my cats maintain
> their current weights. How much canned food should I feed a cat to maintain
> a weight of 11 or 12 pounds (assuming the cat is eating only canned food and
> no dry at all) ? The labels on the cans sound really high (they suggest
> feeding about an ounce of canned food per day per pound of cat weight, which
> would suggest that a 12-pound cat should eat about two 5.5-ounce cans of
> canned cat food per day). My cats have been eating about a quarter of that,
> and I can't see that they've lost any weight, but then again, they are
> still eating some dry food, so that may be the reason. Thanks in advance.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.

mines get a can each.. whenever they ask for it... but at least 2wice
a day...
and.. they can never eat a whole can at once.. BUT.. they love to keep
going back till it's gone.. then they bug me again later towards
bedtime..

they love laying in the bed with me.. watch tv.. then ease out and
nibble on their fav canned food.. then get back in the bed.

They share the same dish... I keep it under the wood stove... they can
actually stand up under there without their tails hitting.. but even
if their tail did hit the stove.. i have fire-brick liner on sides and
bottom.. so you can put your hand on it.. but it's pretty warm.. keeps
their food nice and fragrant till it's eaten.

That's all we do is snack up around here. I'm back and forth to my
cupboard like they are to their bowl...

and with this.. they are nice and full but not fat.
This has been going on for at least a year.
I let them decide how much to eat.

Running Scissors
April 18th 07, 01:27 PM
cindys wrote:

> I know somebody asked this question just recently but from the perspective
> of trying to help the cats lose weight. I would like to see my cats maintain
> their current weights. How much canned food should I feed a cat to maintain
> a weight of 11 or 12 pounds (assuming the cat is eating only canned food and
> no dry at all) ? The labels on the cans sound really high (they suggest
> feeding about an ounce of canned food per day per pound of cat weight, which
> would suggest that a 12-pound cat should eat about two 5.5-ounce cans of
> canned cat food per day). My cats have been eating about a quarter of that,
> and I can't see that they've lost any weight, but then again, they are
> still eating some dry food, so that may be the reason. Thanks in advance.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
>
>

I give my two 6 year old guys (12 lbs. and 9 lbs.) 1/2 a can of
Friskies prime filets each in the morning and leave a bowl of chow out
all day. Filtered water fountain nearby. They are both perfect weight,
healthy, and happy.

I would recommend you continue to feed both wet and dry food.

sheelagh
April 18th 07, 03:13 PM
On 18 Apr, 04:21, body sweat > wrote:
> On Apr 17, 10:47 pm, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > I know somebody asked this question just recently but from the perspective
> > of trying to help the cats lose weight. I would like to see my cats maintain
> > their current weights. How much canned food should I feed a cat to maintain
> > a weight of 11 or 12 pounds (assuming the cat is eating only canned food and
> > no dry at all) ? The labels on the cans sound really high (they suggest
> > feeding about an ounce of canned food per day per pound of cat weight, which
> > would suggest that a 12-pound cat should eat about two 5.5-ounce cans of
> > canned cat food per day). My cats have been eating about a quarter of that,
> > and I can't see that they've lost any weight, but then again, they are
> > still eating some dry food, so that may be the reason. Thanks in advance.
> > Best regards,
> > ---Cindy S.
>
> mines get a can each.. whenever they ask for it... but at least 2wice
> a day...
> and.. they can never eat a whole can at once.. BUT.. they love to keep
> going back till it's gone.. then they bug me again later towards
> bedtime..
>
> they love laying in the bed with me.. watch tv.. then ease out and
> nibble on their fav canned food.. then get back in the bed.
>
> They share the same dish... I keep it under the wood stove... they can
> actually stand up under there without their tails hitting.. but even
> if their tail did hit the stove.. i have fire-brick liner on sides and
> bottom.. so you can put your hand on it.. but it's pretty warm.. keeps
> their food nice and fragrant till it's eaten.
>
> That's all we do is snack up around here. I'm back and forth to my
> cupboard like they are to their bowl...
>
> and with this.. they are nice and full but not fat.
> This has been going on for at least a year.
> I let them decide how much to eat.

All this reading about what to feed your cats has got me feeling
terribly guilty.
The reason for this is because I put down [email protected] home complete dry food
and they all graze as & when they want to. I also feed them 2 cans of
wet meat a day x 2 daily too, but by the sound of things I am going
about this all the wrong way..???

I am reading that most of you are feeding your cats wet food because
it is better than dry food for them.

What is the reasoning behind this though?

There was me thinking that I had found the perfect food for them that
they all eat & like too, only to find that it is not the best thing
for them...

I give them two wet meals a day, of whiskers supermeat, so they get
around aquarter of a can each twice a day. Do I need to give them more
wet food than this, and also, how much ?
Thanks,
S;o)

cindys
April 18th 07, 06:37 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...

snip
>
> All this reading about what to feed your cats has got me feeling
> terribly guilty.

So, join the club. I've been feeling guilty for weeks.

> The reason for this is because I put down [email protected] home complete dry food
> and they all graze as & when they want to. I also feed them 2 cans of
> wet meat a day x 2 daily too, but by the sound of things I am going
> about this all the wrong way..???
>
> I am reading that most of you are feeding your cats wet food because
> it is better than dry food for them.
>
> What is the reasoning behind this though?

The main argument is that the wet food is similar to the cat's natural diet.
Dry foods are primarily carbohydrates which the cats don't need and which
makes them fat and causes them to get things like diabetes. Since Alex had
previously been diagnosed with diabetes (he was cured with Lantus insulin)
and now has been diagnosed with CRF (six months after Molly died from the
same condition), and since Alex and Bullwinkle (my other senior kitty),
while definitely not obese, have both tended to be on the chubby side
(although they have both lost weight recently), I have been trying my best
to figure out what is the best thing to feed my cats.

Up until a year ago, the only thing I ever fed my cats was Iams Weight
Control (dry). When Alex was diagnosed with diabetes, the veterinarian put
him on Purina OM (overweight management, which is a dry prescription food)
and she wanted him to eat OM canned as well, citing that canned cat food
would provide a lot of moisture, which would be good for his kidneys and
other internal organs. He refused the OM canned but was willing to eat
Friskies or the store brand canned cat food. The vet said that she wasn't
exactly a fan of supermarket cat food, but she wasn't going to make an issue
of it as long as he was losing weight and not showing any sign of a diabetes
recurrence (I monitor Alex's blood sugar). So far, so good. Bullwinkle was
eating the same as Alex, and both Alex and Bullwinkle were losing weight
nicely. Amanda and Tux were eating the OM dry only. And I was continuing to
feed Daisy (who was a little on the thin side) the Iams Weight Control dry
only.

Then, Alex was diagnosed with beginning CRF, and I started to read
rec.pets.cats.health+behavior (not sure what was the order, but I think I
was reading the newsgroup before the diagnosis). At the suggestion of some
other readers, I read the feline CRF website (also recommended by my
veterinarian) and the feline diabetes website. One of the things I learned
was that cats do not naturally drink as much water as their bodies need, so
(even healthy) cats who are fed a diet of exclusively dry cat food are
actually slightly dehydrated all of the time. There were some theories that
over the course of years, this constant dehydration messes up their kidneys
and may lead to or hasten the development of CRF. You can imagine the guilt
I was feeling. Then, with all the discussions of the animal byproducts and
wheat gluten and other carbohydrates in the canned cat food, I decided that
I wanted a better quality food than the Friskies/supermarket brand, so I
went for the Fancy Feast (trying to pick the flavors that had primarily
muscle protein and not byproducts listed amongst the first three or four
ingredients). In case anyone is wondering, as far as I can tell, the only
flavor that has 3 of the first 4 ingredients muscle protein is the Tender
Beef Feast flavor. Alex liked the Fancy Feast, as did. Bullwinkle (who will
eat any kind of food I put down in front of him). Alex is now losing weight
from the CRF, so I'm no longer so focused on having him lose weight. I would
be happy if he (and Bullwinkle) just maintained their current weights at
this point. Tux was eating the FF somewhat. Daisy developed a taste for it,
and by that point, I had also stopped filling her bowel with the Iams Weight
Loss food because the other cats were eating out of her dish, so I put the
whole family on OM dry food and Fancy Feast. Amanda was refusing the Fancy
Feast and eating only the dry, however.

Then, I discovered Pet Promise, which is made in a human grade food facility
and contains no byproducts, antibiotics, factory-farmed animals, or
artificial dyes or colors, and it costs the same as Fancy Feast, so I
decided to try that. But Pet Promise also contains rice and potatoes, which
again are carbohydrates and not needed for the cats and certainly not a good
idea for Alex. Also, the cats still preferred the FF, paws down. Then, I did
some more research at the CRF website and decided that Wellness would be the
best food for my cats.

I have ordered a case of Wellness, which is also manufactured in a human
grade food facility, but unlike Pet Promise is low carbohydrate. It hasn't
arrived yet, so I don't know what's going to happen next, which cat will eat
it, which cat won't. Ideally, I would like all of the cats to eat only
canned food, but I doubt this will happen. Amanda, in particular, continues
to reject the canned food almost completely, and Tux has been less than
enthusiastic. The other three cats probably could be just fine on an all
canned food diet at this point. I am going to be starting Alex on the subcu
fluids next week. He has been urinating profusely (due to CRF), but overall,
he seems to be perky and feeling much better since I initiated Pepcid, and
I'm supplementing him with Omega-3 and potassium supplements. Someone wrote
(either on this group or on the feline diabetes discussion group) that the
most ridiculous thing in the world is giving a cat subcu fluids for
hydration while simultaneously feeding him dry cat food.

Last night, I read an except from Ann Martin's book _Foods Pets Die
For_(which was recommended by Buglady. This book was written in 1996 - years
before the Menufoods thing). What I read made my hair stand on end. Here's
an except:

http://www.homevet.com/petcare/foodbook.html

You would not believe the toxins and diseased animal parts and nonfood items
and other crap that finds itself into most pet foods. That's why I now know
for sure I only want to feed my cats food that's been canned in a human
grade food plant. The dry Purina OM - I can't speak for what's in that. I
don't think I want to know... But that's why I would really like to try to
get all my cats to eat Wellness canned food exclusively. I don't know if I
will be able to make that happen or not.

Anyway, that's what my thinking has been for the past few weeks.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

body sweat
April 18th 07, 07:02 PM
On Apr 18, 1:37 pm, "cindys" > wrote:
to make that happen or not.
>
> Anyway, that's what my thinking has been for the past few weeks.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.

In your case, It appears to be a nutritional solution, not necessarily
what could be a rule.

Far as purina etc... isn't the proof in their little hides?

My cats are energetic, shiny, vibrant, frisky, etc... from wet food.

cindys
April 18th 07, 07:35 PM
"body sweat" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Apr 18, 1:37 pm, "cindys" > wrote:
> to make that happen or not.
>>
>> Anyway, that's what my thinking has been for the past few weeks.
>> Best regards,
>> ---Cindy S.
>
> In your case, It appears to be a nutritional solution, not necessarily
> what could be a rule.

I was offering my opinion for why I think canned cat food is better than
dry. I don't know what you mean that it was a *nutritional solution* in my
case but not a *rule*?
>
> Far as purina etc... isn't the proof in their little hides?
>
> My cats are energetic, shiny, vibrant, frisky, etc... from wet food.

It sounds like you're disagreeing with some part of my post, but I'm not
sure what part since I agree that canned food is better for the cats than
the dry. I don't have anything at all against the Purina company. It's just
that the Purina OM is dry cat food, and I would like to see my cats eat only
canned.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

body sweat
April 18th 07, 07:51 PM
On Apr 18, 2:35 pm, "cindys" > wrote:

> It sounds like you're disagreeing with some part of my post, but I'm not
> sure what part since I agree that canned food is better for the cats than
> the dry. I don't have anything at all against the Purina company. It's just
> that the Purina OM is dry cat food, and I would like to see my cats eat only
> canned.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.

I apologize, I didn't mean it to sound that way, not at all.

About hydration and dry cat food.. just my thoughts on this...
it requires very little water to process the food.. I would never see
dry food as a body water thief.

Most here whole heartedly agree on canned wet food, some here prepare
fresh meats and veggies for their cats.

Personally, I am happy to see any cat eating anything, you know..
getting some love and stuff.

cindys
April 18th 07, 08:05 PM
"body sweat" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Apr 18, 2:35 pm, "cindys" > wrote:
>
>> It sounds like you're disagreeing with some part of my post, but I'm not
>> sure what part since I agree that canned food is better for the cats than
>> the dry. I don't have anything at all against the Purina company. It's
>> just
>> that the Purina OM is dry cat food, and I would like to see my cats eat
>> only
>> canned.
>> Best regards,
>> ---Cindy S.
>
> I apologize, I didn't mean it to sound that way, not at all.

Okay. I didn't think we disagreed...
>
> About hydration and dry cat food.. just my thoughts on this...
> it requires very little water to process the food.. I would never see
> dry food as a body water thief.

I don't think the implication is that the dry food is stealing water.
Rather, I think the idea is that wet food is a simple way to help keep cats
hydrated. So, if a cat has a disease like CRF, here he needs extra
hydration, it doesn't make sense to be going through all the trouble and
expense and complications of giving the cat subcu fluids while not providing
wet food at the same time.

> Most here whole heartedly agree on canned wet food, some here prepare
> fresh meats and veggies for their cats.
>
> Personally, I am happy to see any cat eating anything, you know..
> getting some love and stuff.
>
I know :-) I love watching my cats eat.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

MaryL
April 19th 07, 12:43 AM
"Running Scissors" > wrote in message
...
> cindys wrote:
>
>> I know somebody asked this question just recently but from the
>> perspective of trying to help the cats lose weight. I would like to see
>> my cats maintain their current weights. How much canned food should I
>> feed a cat to maintain a weight of 11 or 12 pounds (assuming the cat is
>> eating only canned food and no dry at all) ? The labels on the cans sound
>> really high (they suggest feeding about an ounce of canned food per day
>> per pound of cat weight, which would suggest that a 12-pound cat should
>> eat about two 5.5-ounce cans of canned cat food per day). My cats have
>> been eating about a quarter of that, and I can't see that they've lost
>> any weight, but then again, they are still eating some dry food, so that
>> may be the reason. Thanks in advance.
>> Best regards,
>> ---Cindy S.
>
> I give my two 6 year old guys (12 lbs. and 9 lbs.) 1/2 a can of Friskies
> prime filets each in the morning and leave a bowl of chow out all day.
> Filtered water fountain nearby. They are both perfect weight, healthy, and
> happy.
>
> I would recommend you continue to feed both wet and dry food.

There is a much higher incidence of diabetes and certain other diseases in
cats that are fed dry food. So, although your cats are active and healthy
now, they would probably be better off in the long run if they were fed
exclusively a wet (canned) diet. Note that I did not say that "all" cats
fed dry food would develop problems -- but the difference is significant
enough that it is not worth taking the risk. Incidentally, we still
sometimes see the old folklore that eating dry food is better for their
teeth. Well, it is just that -- folklore. Would you eat pretzels in order
to clean your teeth? In addition, cats do not chew as we do; basically,
they "crunch" and so would not obtain even the little bit of cleaning power
that chewing might provide.

MaryL

body sweat
April 19th 07, 03:44 AM
On Apr 18, 7:43 pm, "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER>
> There is a much higher incidence of diabetes and certain other diseases in
> cats that are fed dry food.
> MaryL

Given that mammals are made of 95 percent water, then about 5c market
value of salt and other minerals, stands to reason a water based food
is better IN the same way veggies are better for us.

Yes, it's folklore... why any ol bumpkin would say crunch is better...
with no studies done.. lol.. L O L.. is beyond me.

NO STUDIES JUST DECLARE IT

i tell ya bubba! that there dry food (like.. 25c a silo) is faaar
better than that pussified canned cat food.

'AW JUST THROW'EM SOME TABLE SCRAPS MAW"

kiss kiss.. I love you honey.

Mary, do you realize how many people peel and eat cats...
I don't mean to be ugly or shocking, heaven knows I don't, but in
NY... they peel and eat them. whew.