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View Full Version : Melamine found in CORN gluten in S. African pet food


buglady
April 19th 07, 07:49 PM
and it came from.........China
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2101493,00.html
Johannesburg - Tests have confirmed that Vets Choice and Royal Canin dog and
cat dry pet-food products contained corn gluten contaminated with melamine,
says the manufacturer.

The contaminated corn gluten was delivered to Royal Canin by a South African
third-party supplier and appears to have originated from China.

.........so if your bag says corn gluten, please keep an eye on your pets.
If it doesn't say corn gluten, call the company and find out if they changed
the formulation and hadn't changed the bag yet. There's no way of knowing
at this point if corn gluten is implicated here or not. Only one thing is
for sure, this is not over. So it would pay to be diligent. One also
wonders of soy protein is a problem.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

Buddy's Mom
April 19th 07, 09:01 PM
I appreciate you keeping us up to date on all of this. Over a month
ago I opened a new bag of Royal Canin cat food and my cat would take
only one bite and walk away. This happened time after time and I just
threw the whole thing away this week. So, now I wonder if the cat
food is also tainted.?

On Apr 19, 2:49�pm, "buglady" > wrote:
> and it came from.........Chinahttp://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2101493,00...
> Johannesburg - Tests have confirmed that Vets Choice and Royal Canin dog and
> cat dry pet-food products contained corn gluten contaminated with melamine,
> says the manufacturer.
>
> The contaminated corn gluten was delivered to Royal Canin by a South African
> third-party supplier and appears to have originated from China.
>
> ........so if your bag says corn gluten, please keep an eye on your pets.
> If it doesn't say corn gluten, call the company and find out if they changed
> the formulation and hadn't changed the bag yet. *There's no way of knowing
> at this point if corn gluten is implicated here or not. *Only one thing is
> for sure, this is not over. *So it would pay to be diligent. *One also
> wonders of soy protein is a problem.
>
> buglady
> take out the dog before replying

Meghan Noecker
April 19th 07, 10:51 PM
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:49:30 GMT, "buglady" >
wrote:

>
>and it came from.........China
>http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2101493,00.html
>Johannesburg - Tests have confirmed that Vets Choice and Royal Canin dog and
>cat dry pet-food products contained corn gluten contaminated with melamine,
>says the manufacturer.
>
>The contaminated corn gluten was delivered to Royal Canin by a South African
>third-party supplier and appears to have originated from China.
>
>........so if your bag says corn gluten, please keep an eye on your pets.
>If it doesn't say corn gluten, call the company and find out if they changed
>the formulation and hadn't changed the bag yet. There's no way of knowing
>at this point if corn gluten is implicated here or not. Only one thing is
>for sure, this is not over. So it would pay to be diligent. One also
>wonders of soy protein is a problem.
>


MIne has corn gluten in it. I am currently near the end of a huge bag
I opened in December. And I have another unopened bag purchased at the
same time.

Would he have shown signs already if this food is contaminated?

He has always been a heavier drinker than the others, which I figured
was good since he refused to eat canned food for the first year or so.
Should I get bloodwork done to check on him?

Lynne
April 19th 07, 11:36 PM
on Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:51:21 GMT, Meghan Noecker
> wrote:

> MIne has corn gluten in it. I am currently near the end of a huge bag
> I opened in December. And I have another unopened bag purchased at the
> same time.
>
> Would he have shown signs already if this food is contaminated?

Not necessarily. He could get sick later.

> He has always been a heavier drinker than the others, which I figured
> was good since he refused to eat canned food for the first year or so.
> Should I get bloodwork done to check on him?

I would definitely do so. The vet can test kidney function and may also
be able to test for the presence of malamine in his system.

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

Meghan Noecker
April 20th 07, 12:50 AM
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:36:42 -0500, Lynne
> wrote:

>on Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:51:21 GMT, Meghan Noecker
> wrote:
>
>> MIne has corn gluten in it. I am currently near the end of a huge bag
>> I opened in December. And I have another unopened bag purchased at the
>> same time.
>>
>> Would he have shown signs already if this food is contaminated?
>
>Not necessarily. He could get sick later.
>
>> He has always been a heavier drinker than the others, which I figured
>> was good since he refused to eat canned food for the first year or so.
>> Should I get bloodwork done to check on him?
>
>I would definitely do so. The vet can test kidney function and may also
>be able to test for the presence of malamine in his system.


We are planning to go next Tuesday. That is my next day off from work.
It doesn't appear to be an emergency, but I can go sooner if anything
changes. I need to get a senior panel for my dog as well.

I have taken away the kibble for now, just in case. He still has his
canned food, and I do have some free samples of various premium foods
that I got at the cat show last week.

At least one of them has no grain of any kind.

cybercat
April 20th 07, 12:58 AM
"Lynne" > wrote
?
>
> Not necessarily. He could get sick later.
>

I have to wonder if this will spread to other products with
corn gluten. Gracie's Purina Salmon has corn gluten in it.

Cheryl
April 20th 07, 01:12 AM
On Thu 19 Apr 2007 07:58:57p, cybercat wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav >:

>
> I have to wonder if this will spread to other products with
> corn gluten. Gracie's Purina Salmon has corn gluten in it.

It's in Rhett's Science Diet sensitive stomach formula, too. The
current bag is almost empty and I have a new bag unopened. Hill's has
nothing on their site yet about corn gluten, and just about every
food they make has corn gluten in it. This has finally hit close to
home here.

--
Cheryl

Lynne
April 20th 07, 01:41 AM
on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 00:12:16 GMT, Cheryl >
wrote:

> It's in Rhett's Science Diet sensitive stomach formula, too. The
> current bag is almost empty and I have a new bag unopened. Hill's has
> nothing on their site yet about corn gluten, and just about every
> food they make has corn gluten in it. This has finally hit close to
> home here.

Given that BB didn't know their manufacturer procured rice gluten from
China until they tested the food, I wouldn't feed ANY gluten until the
specific manufacturer of your product states that their food has been
tested and is safe. Just stating that they don't get any ingredients from
China is obviously not enough, since they apparently can't be sure.

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

cybercat
April 20th 07, 01:46 AM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 00:12:16 GMT, Cheryl >
> wrote:
>
>> It's in Rhett's Science Diet sensitive stomach formula, too. The
>> current bag is almost empty and I have a new bag unopened. Hill's has
>> nothing on their site yet about corn gluten, and just about every
>> food they make has corn gluten in it. This has finally hit close to
>> home here.
>
> Given that BB didn't know their manufacturer procured rice gluten from
> China until they tested the food, I wouldn't feed ANY gluten until the
> specific manufacturer of your product states that their food has been
> tested and is safe. Just stating that they don't get any ingredients from
> China is obviously not enough, since they apparently can't be sure.
>
> --
> Lynne
>
I wonder if there is a dry food with no grain at all? Probably not. But
maybe with no gluten.

cindys
April 20th 07, 01:52 AM
"Cheryl" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu 19 Apr 2007 07:58:57p, cybercat wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav >:
>
>>
>> I have to wonder if this will spread to other products with
>> corn gluten. Gracie's Purina Salmon has corn gluten in it.
>
> It's in Rhett's Science Diet sensitive stomach formula, too. The
> current bag is almost empty and I have a new bag unopened. Hill's has
> nothing on their site yet about corn gluten, and just about every
> food they make has corn gluten in it. This has finally hit close to
> home here.
--------
The first two ingredients in the Purina OM are corn gluten and wheat gluten.
The Purina veterinary diets are not currently on the recall list (except for
the M/D). Even though I have been in the process of trying to switch my cats
to canned food only, all of my cats have been eating Purina OM for the past
year. Alex has early CRF. His BUN and creatinine have been elevated since
December. I'm worried about Bullwinkle too; even though his values are not
technically abnormal, they are high normal. I don't know about my other
three cats since they are relatively young, and there has never been a need
to have blood work drawn on them (but they are not showing clinical signs of
kidney disease). In the past week, Alex has been urinating profusely. I have
an appointment with the vet tech on Monday to start the subcu fluids. Maybe
I should change the vet tech appointment to an appointment with the doctor
herself and have another blood test. I want to cry.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Lynne
April 20th 07, 01:52 AM
on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 00:46:11 GMT, "cybercat" > wrote:

> I wonder if there is a dry food with no grain at all? Probably not. But
> maybe with no gluten.

Innova Evo dry. No grains whatsoever, no gluten. Rudy and Levi LOVE it.

There are also others that have grains, but no gluten, such as Felidae.

If we can trust the labels, that is.

****ing hell.

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

cindys
April 20th 07, 01:56 AM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Lynne" > wrote in message
> m...
>> on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 00:12:16 GMT, Cheryl >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It's in Rhett's Science Diet sensitive stomach formula, too. The
>>> current bag is almost empty and I have a new bag unopened. Hill's has
>>> nothing on their site yet about corn gluten, and just about every
>>> food they make has corn gluten in it. This has finally hit close to
>>> home here.
>>
>> Given that BB didn't know their manufacturer procured rice gluten from
>> China until they tested the food, I wouldn't feed ANY gluten until the
>> specific manufacturer of your product states that their food has been
>> tested and is safe. Just stating that they don't get any ingredients
>> from
>> China is obviously not enough, since they apparently can't be sure.
>>
>> --
>> Lynne
>>
> I wonder if there is a dry food with no grain at all? Probably not. But
> maybe with no gluten.
----------------
The following foods have no wheat or wheat gluten in them at all. They may
contain corn or rice.

Prescription Diet: a/d, c/d (dry only), d/d (except duck), g/d (dry only),
i/d, k/d (dry only), m/d (canned only), r/d, s/d, t/d, w/d (dry only), x/d
(dry only), z/d.
Science Diet(dry): Advanced Protection Adult, Advanced Protection Mature
Adult 7+, Adult Chicken & Rice Recipe, Adult Lamb & Rice Recipe, Adult Ocean
Fish & Rice Recipe, Adult Original, Hairball Control Adult, Hairball Control
Light Adult, Hairball Control Mature Adult 7+, Kitten Original, Light Adult,
Oral Care Adult, Mature Adult 7+ Original, Sensitive Skin Adult.

Best regards,
----Cindy S.

Cheryl
April 20th 07, 01:57 AM
On Thu 19 Apr 2007 08:46:11p, cybercat wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav >:

> I wonder if there is a dry food with no grain at all? Probably
> not. But maybe with no gluten.

I don't think they can make a food with zero fillers or grain. Some
use fruit, some use rice, some use wheat or corn.

The other dry food I use is California Natural. Luckily I've been
weening Rhett to this, so it won't be a shock to his sensitive system
when he gets nothing but this. They all like it, so I'm not worried.
The rice doesn't say "gluten" or "protein concentrate" so I have to
investigate further.

Ingredients:
Chicken, Chicken Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Chicken Fat, Sunflower Oil,
Flaxseed, Vitamins/Minerals, Taurine

--
Cheryl

Meghan Noecker
April 20th 07, 02:00 AM
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:46:11 -0400, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>>
>I wonder if there is a dry food with no grain at all? Probably not. But
>maybe with no gluten.
>


I was at a cat show last wekeend, and the second day of raffle prizes
were bags with sample packets of premium foods. I won several.

Innova EVO says No Grain on the front.

Turkey, Chicken, Chicken Meal, Herring Meal, Potato, Chicken Fat,
Eggs, Turkey Meal, Natural Flavors, Apples, Carrots, Tomatoes, Cottage
Cheese, Dried Chickory Root, Taurine, Herring Oil, and a list of
vitamins and minerals.

Felidae doesn't have any gluten, but does have Brown Rice.

Cheryl
April 20th 07, 02:01 AM
On Thu 19 Apr 2007 08:52:11p, cindys wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
>:

> Maybe
> I should change the vet tech appointment to an appointment with
> the doctor herself and have another blood test. I want to cry.

I am right there with you. My cats are all young (5 years or under)
and Shamrock is the only one who's had several blood panels done, so
at least something to compare. I'm just watching for signs of
illness, and my vet said that those she's had come in during the
initial wave of recalls have pulled through with early detection.

--
Cheryl

cindys
April 20th 07, 02:05 AM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...

>>
> I wonder if there is a dry food with no grain at all? Probably not. But
> maybe with no gluten.
----------
The Pet Promise dry cat foods are also wheat and wheat gluten free, but they
contain corn gluten and brewer's rice.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Lynne
April 20th 07, 02:07 AM
on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 00:52:11 GMT, "cindys" >
wrote:

> The first two ingredients in the Purina OM are corn gluten and wheat
> gluten. The Purina veterinary diets are not currently on the recall
> list (except for the M/D). Even though I have been in the process of
> trying to switch my cats to canned food only, all of my cats have been
> eating Purina OM for the past year. Alex has early CRF. His BUN and
> creatinine have been elevated since December. I'm worried about
> Bullwinkle too; even though his values are not technically abnormal,
> they are high normal. I don't know about my other three cats since
> they are relatively young, and there has never been a need to have
> blood work drawn on them (but they are not showing clinical signs of
> kidney disease). In the past week, Alex has been urinating profusely.
> I have an appointment with the vet tech on Monday to start the subcu
> fluids. Maybe I should change the vet tech appointment to an
> appointment with the doctor herself and have another blood test. I
> want to cry.

Cindy, my heart goes out to you. As I was reading your post, the reality
of your situation hit me. I want to cry for you. I wish I had answers
for you.

Ask your vet to test Alex for melamine in his urine. And consider
switching his food and Bullwinkle's food right away (the youngsters, too,
if they are eating food with gluten). Since I don't now what the best
solution to feeding would be for CRF, I don't want to make any
suggestions. You already know Evo is not an option, check Innova's other
formulations, and Felidae, Wellness, and others. I'm sure there has got
to be at least one food with no glutens and not too high of a protein or
phosphorous content, but you're going to have to do some research.

Try to stay calm and focused. If you're not on the verge of panicking,
then ignore that last bit of advice, and this one, too, if you don't need
it: I have learned that digging into the technical details of a problem
and solution help me get through the crisis without falling apart.

Cindy, let us know how everything goes.

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

Meghan Noecker
April 20th 07, 02:10 AM
On 20 Apr 2007 00:57:56 GMT, Cheryl >
wrote:

>On Thu 19 Apr 2007 08:46:11p, cybercat wrote in
>rec.pets.cats.health+behav >:
>
>> I wonder if there is a dry food with no grain at all? Probably
>> not. But maybe with no gluten.
>
>I don't think they can make a food with zero fillers or grain. Some
>use fruit, some use rice, some use wheat or corn.
>
>The other dry food I use is California Natural. Luckily I've been
>weening Rhett to this, so it won't be a shock to his sensitive system
>when he gets nothing but this. They all like it, so I'm not worried.
>The rice doesn't say "gluten" or "protein concentrate" so I have to
>investigate further.


Does anybody know what it is about gluten that leaves it open to the
contimination? If it has corn, rice, apples, etc - how do we know they
are safer than gluten?

I'm not trying to start an argument, but if I am going to change
foods, I want to make sure I am not going from something that is just
as unsafe.

I do have samples of all the foods mentioned, so I can see what the
cats like without having to spend anything. But I am not sure whether
they are really safe. I mean, most of the foods now listed were still
officially safe when the original recall started. So, who's to say
that some of these join the list?

As it is the Royal Canin food is listed safe here, but not safe in
South Africa?

Lynne
April 20th 07, 02:13 AM
on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 01:10:24 GMT, Meghan Noecker
> wrote:

> Does anybody know what it is about gluten that leaves it open to the
> contimination? If it has corn, rice, apples, etc - how do we know they
> are safer than gluten?

My educated guess is that the glutens have been intentionally tampered
with. Melamine makes the apparent protein content of glutens appear
higher. Glutens are added to increase the protein content of foods. How
much do you want to bet that melamine is far less expensive than the
process of extracting gluten from wheat, rice and corn?

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

Cheryl
April 20th 07, 02:13 AM
On Thu 19 Apr 2007 09:10:24p, Meghan Noecker wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
>:

> But I am not sure whether
> they are really safe. I mean, most of the foods now listed were
> still officially safe when the original recall started. So,
> who's to say that some of these join the list?

Can't answer your question, but in light of your comment, I have to
quote something from the California Natural web site, and if this
food ends up contaminated, too, I'm going to just scream because if
you can't trust quality assurance methods, what else are you going
to do?

----------------------
Pet Food Safety and Quality Control
Because we use only the highest quality human-grade pet food
ingredients in our dog and cat foods, we apply the highest quality
manufacturing guidelines to our production process. There are no
shortcuts here. We follow the strictest of pet food manufacturing
guidelines to ensure we deliver a product that sets the benchmark
in the industry. That's what your pet deserves.

Natura Pet Products has received certifications from the following
four organizations:

American Institute of Baking(AIB) Superior rating certification -
"high AIB ratings confirm a manufacturer's commitment to
excellence," The Whole Dog Journal, February, 2006.

USDA Organic Production Certification - shows that foods come from
a "plant that passed a rigorous inspection by a National Organic
Program's certifying agency." (Natura is certified QAI - Quality
Assurance International).

USDA APHIS (Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service) Registered
- The APHIS designation means that Natura cooperates with the USDA
in certifying the sources, history and use of ingredients, as
strictly required by foreign governments to allow international
export of our food.

ISO 9000: 2000 Compliant - The most respected international
organization for quality management and consistency in all
industries.

In addition to our accreditations, Natura employs our own standards
of quality. Before any of our pet food is shipped, it must pass 50
quality-control checks.

This isn't just pet food. This is the foundation for your pet's
long-term health. We want to be sure we provide him or her with the
best pet food on the market, manufactured in the best way possible.


--
Cheryl

cindys
April 20th 07, 02:18 AM
"Meghan Noecker" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:46:11 -0400, "cybercat" >
> wrote:
>
>>>
>>I wonder if there is a dry food with no grain at all? Probably not. But
>>maybe with no gluten.
>>
>
>
> I was at a cat show last wekeend, and the second day of raffle prizes
> were bags with sample packets of premium foods. I won several.
>
> Innova EVO says No Grain on the front.
>
> Turkey, Chicken, Chicken Meal, Herring Meal, Potato, Chicken Fat,
> Eggs, Turkey Meal, Natural Flavors, Apples, Carrots, Tomatoes, Cottage
> Cheese, Dried Chickory Root, Taurine, Herring Oil, and a list of
> vitamins and minerals.
>
> Felidae doesn't have any gluten, but does have Brown Rice.
----------
Does anyone know about the phosphorous content of the Felidae? The only
reason I'm not using the dry Innovo Evo is because the high phosphorous is
an issue for cats with CRF, which one of my cats has.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Lynne
April 20th 07, 02:19 AM
on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 01:13:35 GMT, Cheryl >
wrote:

> Pet Food Safety and Quality Control
> Because we use only the highest quality human-grade pet food
> ingredients in our dog and cat foods, we apply the highest quality
> manufacturing guidelines to our production process. There are no
> shortcuts here. We follow the strictest of pet food manufacturing
> guidelines to ensure we deliver a product that sets the benchmark
> in the industry. That's what your pet deserves.
<snip>

Not to scare you (or myself since Innova Evo is a Natura product), but
keep in mind that Menu Foods manufactures some of Natura's products...
The Menu plant where their Innova Evo canned is proceessed was not
implicated, and since there is no gluten used in evo I've decided to
trust it (scary as that is), but I think what has become very clear is
that these pet food companies don't have a freakin clue where there
ingredients are really coming from no matter what they say.

Since (so far) it's just been glutens implicated, and since the sick
logic behind adding melamine to gluten makes sense for cost cutting
murdering *******s, I've decided I will avoid all glutens and try to stay
calm until given a reason not to.

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

Lynne
April 20th 07, 02:20 AM
on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 01:18:38 GMT, "cindys" >
wrote:

> Does anyone know about the phosphorous content of the Felidae? The
> only reason I'm not using the dry Innovo Evo is because the high
> phosphorous is an issue for cats with CRF, which one of my cats has.

Here's a link to Felidae dry which shows the phosphorous content. You can
also navigate to the analysis for the wet from here:

http://www.canidae.com/cats/cat_and_kitten/dry.html

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

Meghan Noecker
April 20th 07, 02:22 AM
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:13:24 -0500, Lynne
> wrote:

>on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 01:10:24 GMT, Meghan Noecker
> wrote:
>
>> Does anybody know what it is about gluten that leaves it open to the
>> contimination? If it has corn, rice, apples, etc - how do we know they
>> are safer than gluten?
>
>My educated guess is that the glutens have been intentionally tampered
>with. Melamine makes the apparent protein content of glutens appear
>higher. Glutens are added to increase the protein content of foods. How
>much do you want to bet that melamine is far less expensive than the
>process of extracting gluten from wheat, rice and corn?


So, if it is intentionally contaminated to increase the protein level,
they would only do this to foods with gluten, and not with something
that has brewer's rice or other fruits and veggies?

In other words, it shoul dbe safe as long as no form of gluten is
listed, even if it has grain, veggies, or fruit?

Lynne
April 20th 07, 02:26 AM
on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 01:22:30 GMT, Meghan Noecker
> wrote:

> So, if it is intentionally contaminated to increase the protein level,
> they would only do this to foods with gluten, and not with something
> that has brewer's rice or other fruits and veggies?
>
> In other words, it shoul dbe safe as long as no form of gluten is
> listed, even if it has grain, veggies, or fruit?

There is no way to know ANYTHING for sure with this mess, but I feel
comfortable making this assumption. I'm guessing that the cost to
extract gluten from whole grains is the prohibitive factor, so I can't
see any logical reason why whole grains themselves would be tampered
with.

(The above is a fine example of how my brain works so I can find a way to
sleep at night...)

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

Cheryl
April 20th 07, 02:26 AM
On Thu 19 Apr 2007 09:19:43p, Lynne wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
m>:

> Since (so far) it's just been glutens implicated, and since the
> sick logic behind adding melamine to gluten makes sense for cost
> cutting murdering *******s, I've decided I will avoid all
> glutens and try to stay calm until given a reason not to.

I guess the question really comes down to semantics. Wheat gluten and
corn gluten is obvious. Rice protein concentrate does not have
"gluten" in the phrase, and CA Natural uses "ground brown rice".

--
Cheryl

Meghan Noecker
April 20th 07, 02:27 AM
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:18:38 -0400, "cindys"
> wrote:


>----------
>Does anyone know about the phosphorous content of the Felidae? The only
>reason I'm not using the dry Innovo Evo is because the high phosphorous is
>an issue for cats with CRF, which one of my cats has.
>Best regards,
>---Cindy S.
>


I happen to have all these packets handy right now.

The bag does not list phosphorous at all. Magnesium is listed at
0.095% max. I'm not familiar with CRF, so I don't know if that is
useful or not.

Cheryl
April 20th 07, 02:29 AM
On Thu 19 Apr 2007 09:18:38p, cindys wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
>:

> Does anyone know about the phosphorous content of the Felidae?
> The only reason I'm not using the dry Innovo Evo is because the
> high phosphorous is an issue for cats with CRF, which one of my
> cats has.

If you aren't already a member of the CRF Yahoo group, you should
probably join very quickly. I'm sure that everyone there is going
through the exact same fears right now, and if you wait, Yahoo's
search feature sucks so you likely won't find past discussions about
it. Good luck and again, I feel for you and purrs and prayers and
headbutts for Alex.

--
Cheryl

Cheryl
April 20th 07, 02:32 AM
On Thu 19 Apr 2007 09:13:24p, Lynne wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
>:

> My educated guess is that the glutens have been intentionally
> tampered with. Melamine makes the apparent protein content of
> glutens appear higher. Glutens are added to increase the
> protein content of foods. How much do you want to bet that
> melamine is far less expensive than the process of extracting
> gluten from wheat, rice and corn?

I watch the food network quite a bit, and recently I saw a show where
the host was talking about the molecular breakdown of plastic and
fat. He said they are almost exactly the same. That's why fat is
hard to clean off of plastic and bacteria thrives. Where fat would
fit in with protein escapes me because I don't know about such
things, but now I wonder if your educated guess might be right.

--
Cheryl

Lynne
April 20th 07, 02:33 AM
on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 01:26:42 GMT, Cheryl >
wrote:

> I guess the question really comes down to semantics. Wheat gluten and
> corn gluten is obvious. Rice protein concentrate does not have
> "gluten" in the phrase, and CA Natural uses "ground brown rice".

Rice protein concentrate and rice gluten are the same thing, sort of.
Glutens are a protein concentrate, but perhaps the method of extraction
for rice is different (I don't know). You are right to point out the
difference though, anything that has "rice protein concentrate" is to be
avoided IMHO.

Ground brown rice implies whole grain, but I would ask them. They were
less than helpful when I contacted them early in this mess, and even
today when I asked if they ever change their ingredients without
immediately reflecting that change on their label they sent a one word
reply: no.

Gee, that inspires trust... I just got a new bag of Evo dry and the
thought of opening it scares me. I trust other companies less right now,
though, so open it I will.

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

Lynne
April 20th 07, 02:35 AM
on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 01:32:48 GMT, Cheryl >
wrote:

> I watch the food network quite a bit, and recently I saw a show where
> the host was talking about the molecular breakdown of plastic and
> fat. He said they are almost exactly the same. That's why fat is
> hard to clean off of plastic and bacteria thrives. Where fat would
> fit in with protein escapes me because I don't know about such
> things, but now I wonder if your educated guess might be right.

If you want to get more technical, there may even be a simple way to add
melamine to wheat (and corn and rice) that doesn't require extracting the
gluten at all... It depends on how melamine reacts with the starch (which
is stripped off to extract the gluten). But that's getting too deep for
me. I just wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this is what is
happening. I also won't be surprised if the culprit(s) are never found.

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

buglady
April 20th 07, 02:56 AM
"Cheryl" > wrote in message
...
> It's in Rhett's Science Diet sensitive stomach formula, too. The
> current bag is almost empty and I have a new bag unopened. Hill's has
> nothing on their site yet about corn gluten, and just about every
> food they make has corn gluten in it. This has finally hit close to
> home here.

..........check your pet food brand website. Some have already had something
to say about rice protein conc., even though many answers were evasive. FDA
is probably checking paper trail, but currently there's no investigation
into corn gluten in this country. However, a toxicologist (?) in S. Africa
said he wouldn't be surprised if this is what was responsible for illnesses
since Sept in that area. People here complained about pet food around that
same time. According to a small pet food manufacturer, that is about the
time that there was a real crunch in prices and everyone went looking for
cheaper ingredients. My feeling is, if every pet food co is not checking
their corn gluten right this minute for melamine they're nuts. I just wish
they would say they were testing and will announce as soon as possible the
results. We have no way of knowing if they're just hiding their head in the
sand or not. And for them to tell you they're not using the same supplier
is NO comfort as the wheat gluten and rice protein conc come from different
suppliers. So - the question for your PF Co. is - do you get corn gluten,
directly or indirectly from China and are you now testing for melamine in
that ingredient. Period.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

buglady
April 20th 07, 02:58 AM
"buglady" > wrote in message
nk.net...
So - the question for your PF Co. is - do you get corn gluten,
> directly or indirectly from China and are you now testing for melamine in
> that ingredient. Period.

.......let me amend that to: do you get any vegetable proteins, directly or
indirectly from China and are you now testing for melamine in that
ingredient. Period.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

cindys
April 20th 07, 03:08 AM
"buglady" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "buglady" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> So - the question for your PF Co. is - do you get corn gluten,
>> directly or indirectly from China and are you now testing for melamine in
>> that ingredient. Period.
>
> ......let me amend that to: do you get any vegetable proteins, directly
> or
> indirectly from China and are you now testing for melamine in that
> ingredient. Period.
----------
My question would be even simpler: Are you now testing for melamine in your
vegetable proteins?

I don't think they know where their vegetables proteins are coming from to
be able to answer if they're from China or not.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Meghan Noecker
April 20th 07, 03:08 AM
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 01:56:01 GMT, "buglady" >
wrote:

>
>"Cheryl" > wrote in message
...
>> It's in Rhett's Science Diet sensitive stomach formula, too. The
>> current bag is almost empty and I have a new bag unopened. Hill's has
>> nothing on their site yet about corn gluten, and just about every
>> food they make has corn gluten in it. This has finally hit close to
>> home here.
>
>.........check your pet food brand website. Some have already had something
>to say about rice protein conc., even though many answers were evasive. FDA
>is probably checking paper trail, but currently there's no investigation
>into corn gluten in this country. However, a toxicologist (?) in S. Africa
>said he wouldn't be surprised if this is what was responsible for illnesses
>since Sept in that area. People here complained about pet food around that
>same time. According to a small pet food manufacturer, that is about the
>time that there was a real crunch in prices and everyone went looking for
>cheaper ingredients. My feeling is, if every pet food co is not checking
>their corn gluten right this minute for melamine they're nuts. I just wish
>they would say they were testing and will announce as soon as possible the
>results. We have no way of knowing if they're just hiding their head in the
>sand or not. And for them to tell you they're not using the same supplier
>is NO comfort as the wheat gluten and rice protein conc come from different
>suppliers. So - the question for your PF Co. is - do you get corn gluten,
>directly or indirectly from China and are you now testing for melamine in
>that ingredient. Period.


I just sent an email to Royal Canin. This what I wrote:

I have been reading about corn gluten being a problem in South Africa
and Royal Canin was mentioned.

I feed the Maine Coon version and it has corn gluten. Has the US food
actually been tested? Is it just assumed to be safe since it doesn't
have the wheat gluten?

I don't want to switch foods, but I don't want to risk my cats either.
It would be a lot easier for us if your website would list which foods
have been tested and cleared. Not just a general statement, but
specific foods.

In the meantime, I have discontinued serving the food and will wait
until bloodtests come back to prove my cat is okay. Then I will finish
the bags I have. I will not buy any more until I have seen some
confirmation that the food has been tested.

I know this whole issue has made it difficult for all pet food
companies, and I know you are busy trying to make sure everything is
fine. I appreciate your coming response and hopefully an update on
your website.

Thank you very much.



I figured this would be a polite wayto ask, but also let them know
that I will not be purchasing any more food until I know the status of
MY food HERE.

I think we all need to be contacting the companies and push them into
updating their information. Especially with test results.

buglady
April 20th 07, 03:08 AM
"Meghan Noecker" > wrote in message
...
> Does anybody know what it is about gluten that leaves it open to the
> contimination?
.......Absolutelyflocking nothing except they all bought these cheap
ingredients from China. Current thinking is that this is a case of fraud.
Protein contains nitrogen. Both rice protein conc and wheat gluten (and I'm
sure others) are available in differing percentages of protein. The higher
the protein content the higher the price and the better the quality. Lower
protein glutens are used for feed. So they took the cheap stuff, salted it
with melamine and when they ran a chemical test for % nitrogen it tested as
a higher quality. And apparently no one looks at the stuff, not the US
supplier, not the pet food manufacturer, no one. The only good point for
all these PF companies is that they actually went shopping for a better
quality product than feed grade.

> As it is the Royal Canin food is listed safe here, but not safe in
> South Africa?

.......Yes, I think the FDA checked with them. Royal Canine S. Africa bought
cheap corn gluten from China. Due to the distance they are from N. America
they probably try to source meat, etc. in the neighborhood so to speak.
Everyone and his chicken however seems to be buying the protein powders from
China. For rice and soy it makes sense as there's a lot more there than
here. They got snookered. They thought they found a real *deal*. Geez

FDA should have transcript of press conference today sometime on their
website www.fda.gov


buglady
take out the dog before replying

cybercat
April 20th 07, 03:13 AM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 00:46:11 GMT, "cybercat" > wrote:
>
>> I wonder if there is a dry food with no grain at all? Probably not. But
>> maybe with no gluten.
>
> Innova Evo dry. No grains whatsoever, no gluten. Rudy and Levi LOVE it.
>

Thank you, Lynne. I will order some.

Lynne
April 20th 07, 03:16 AM
on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 02:13:26 GMT, "cybercat" > wrote:

> Thank you, Lynne. I will order some.

Just be aware that it's not appropriate for cats with any degree of CRF.
The phosphorous content is pretty high.

OTOH, you can be sure it won't cause CRF because of melanine (if that is
even what is the real problem)...

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

Meghan Noecker
April 20th 07, 03:18 AM
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:16:27 -0500, Lynne
> wrote:

>on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 02:13:26 GMT, "cybercat" > wrote:
>
>> Thank you, Lynne. I will order some.
>
>Just be aware that it's not appropriate for cats with any degree of CRF.
>The phosphorous content is pretty high.
>
>OTOH, you can be sure it won't cause CRF because of melanine (if that is
>even what is the real problem)...


So, if a cat has been conaminated with any of the bad foods, then this
would not be a good food to switch to, correct?

Lynne
April 20th 07, 03:18 AM
on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 02:08:19 GMT, "cindys" >
wrote:

> My question would be even simpler: Are you now testing for melamine in
> your vegetable proteins?
>
> I don't think they know where their vegetables proteins are coming
> from to be able to answer if they're from China or not.

That's what I'm thinking, too. Blue Buffalo said they weren't getting any
ingredients from China...

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

Lynne
April 20th 07, 03:23 AM
on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 02:18:44 GMT, Meghan Noecker
> wrote:

> So, if a cat has been conaminated with any of the bad foods, then this
> would not be a good food to switch to, correct?

I would guess that no, it would not, since some vets have said that pets
who ate the tainted foods may show signs of kidney problems down the road.

I wonder if it is possible to feed a cat with CRF an entirely grain free
food? And do the wet versions have less phosporous than the dry?

Hell, maybe those cranberry and other fruit fillers that have been scourned
here really are the way to go...

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

Cheryl
April 20th 07, 03:31 AM
On Thu 19 Apr 2007 09:33:04p, Lynne wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
m>:

> Rice protein concentrate and rice gluten are the same thing,
> sort of. Glutens are a protein concentrate, but perhaps the
> method of extraction for rice is different (I don't know). You
> are right to point out the difference though, anything that has
> "rice protein concentrate" is to be avoided IMHO.
>
> Ground brown rice implies whole grain, but I would ask them.
> They were less than helpful when I contacted them early in this
> mess, and even today when I asked if they ever change their
> ingredients without immediately reflecting that change on their
> label they sent a one word reply: no.
>
> Gee, that inspires trust... I just got a new bag of Evo dry and
> the thought of opening it scares me. I trust other companies
> less right now, though, so open it I will.

I just heard a story on the news that supports what you said. That
adding melamine allegedly was intentional to boost the protein
content.

--
Cheryl

buglady
April 20th 07, 03:47 AM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
...
> That's what I'm thinking, too. Blue Buffalo said they weren't getting any
> ingredients from China...

........My question is why not? Something wrong there in quality control of
your product if you have zero control over ingredients. One big giant hole.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

buglady
April 20th 07, 03:58 AM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> I wonder if it is possible to feed a cat with CRF an entirely grain free
> food?
I fed my ancient CRF cat raw meals. She wasn't on fluids or meds. I just
sent her over the bridge at 20.5 yrs. She had *diagnosed* CRF the last 2
yrs of her life, though my guess is she had it longer. I tried for a while
to add infant otatmeal but she wasn't buying it. I'm not telling anyone to
switch to a raw diet, but it's not the protein that's a problem. She's the
one that got fed 4 times a day, often with canned food at least once, as the
elderly lose their *nose*. She was old, she had CRF, but my guess is that
occasional wrongly bought can of rubbery bits and gravy shoved her right off
the edge. And when she lost her appetite, it was canned food I turned to.
I honestly don't know what I'd do if I were faced with trying to choose a
safe (sic) food.

buglady
takeout the dog before replying

Lynne
April 20th 07, 04:22 AM
on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 02:58:34 GMT, "buglady" >
wrote:

> I fed my ancient CRF cat raw meals. She wasn't on fluids or meds. I
> just sent her over the bridge at 20.5 yrs. She had *diagnosed* CRF
> the last 2 yrs of her life, though my guess is she had it longer. I
> tried for a while to add infant otatmeal but she wasn't buying it.
> I'm not telling anyone to switch to a raw diet, but it's not the
> protein that's a problem. She's the one that got fed 4 times a day,
> often with canned food at least once, as the elderly lose their
> *nose*. She was old, she had CRF, but my guess is that occasional
> wrongly bought can of rubbery bits and gravy shoved her right off the
> edge. And when she lost her appetite, it was canned food I turned to.
> I honestly don't know what I'd do if I were faced with trying to
> choose a safe (sic) food.

Did you prepare her diet from scratch, or use a prepared raw diet? We
may get to that point in our house very, very soon. For the dog, too.
Don't even get me started on how scared I am to feed products containing
glutens to my children.

As to your old gal, I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm sure it still feels
very fresh. She lived a long life. I lost my Calvin at about the same
age. I think we were both pretty fortunate to have them that long. Of
course it's never long enough...

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

Lynne
April 20th 07, 04:25 AM
on Fri, 20 Apr 2007 02:47:57 GMT, "buglady" >
wrote:

> .......My question is why not? Something wrong there in quality
> control of your product if you have zero control over ingredients.
> One big giant hole.

And I'll bet it ain't over yet.

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

NedF
April 20th 07, 05:49 AM
On Apr 19, 5:18 pm, "cindys" > wrote:
> "Meghan Noecker" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:46:11 -0400, "cybercat" >
> > wrote:
>
> >>I wonder if there is a dry food with no grain at all? Probably not. But
> >>maybe with no gluten.
>
> > I was at a cat show last wekeend, and the second day of raffle prizes
> > were bags with sample packets of premium foods. I won several.
>
> > Innova EVO says No Grain on the front.
>
> > Turkey, Chicken, Chicken Meal, Herring Meal, Potato, Chicken Fat,
> > Eggs, Turkey Meal, Natural Flavors, Apples, Carrots, Tomatoes, Cottage
> > Cheese, Dried Chickory Root, Taurine, Herring Oil, and a list of
> > vitamins and minerals.
>
> > Felidae doesn't have any gluten, but does have Brown Rice.
>
> ----------
> Does anyone know about the phosphorous content of the Felidae? The only
> reason I'm not using the dry Innovo Evo is because the high phosphorous is
> an issue for cats with CRF, which one of my cats has.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.


Phosphorous content of Felidae is here: I think

http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm

cindys
April 20th 07, 06:43 AM
"NedF" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Apr 19, 5:18 pm, "cindys" > wrote:
>> "Meghan Noecker" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>> > On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:46:11 -0400, "cybercat" >
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >>I wonder if there is a dry food with no grain at all? Probably not. But
>> >>maybe with no gluten.
>>
>> > I was at a cat show last wekeend, and the second day of raffle prizes
>> > were bags with sample packets of premium foods. I won several.
>>
>> > Innova EVO says No Grain on the front.
>>
>> > Turkey, Chicken, Chicken Meal, Herring Meal, Potato, Chicken Fat,
>> > Eggs, Turkey Meal, Natural Flavors, Apples, Carrots, Tomatoes, Cottage
>> > Cheese, Dried Chickory Root, Taurine, Herring Oil, and a list of
>> > vitamins and minerals.
>>
>> > Felidae doesn't have any gluten, but does have Brown Rice.
>>
>> ----------
>> Does anyone know about the phosphorous content of the Felidae? The only
>> reason I'm not using the dry Innovo Evo is because the high phosphorous
>> is
>> an issue for cats with CRF, which one of my cats has.
>> Best regards,
>> ---Cindy S.
>
>
> Phosphorous content of Felidae is here: I think
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm
>
----------
Thank you. Interestingly, there were phosphorus contents listed for Earth's
Best baby food dinners as well. I am wondering if I could feed that to my
cats (and supplement them with Felovite II for the taurine and other
vitamins). Molly lived exclusively on tuna packed in water for the last year
of her life. It was the only thing she would eat, and I supplemented her
with the Felovite II.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

buglady
April 20th 07, 11:23 AM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
...
>
> Did you prepare her diet from scratch, or use a prepared raw diet?

.........I make it myself. which is why all cat got canned sometimes if I
forgot to defrost!

buglady
take out the dog before replying