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sheelagh
April 22nd 07, 06:56 PM
Last night I had just sat down when I noticed that my mobile phone had
multiple messages waiting for me to read. I picked it up & opened the
messages that I could see were from a friend who had one of Belle's
kittens out of her summer litter last year ,& started to read them in
the order in which they arrived. As I started to read them, I could
feel my blood almost congealing in my arteries.....

The message read, " Jack has gone missing. The last time we saw him
was on Friday evening at 6 pm.. Do you think he will come back"......

The second message read, "still nothing".....

The third one read, "He's gone.. I can't believe or accept it".....

Even though it was 11.20pm, I called her because I knew she wouldn't
be able to sleep whilst he was still missing. She picked up
immediately & I asked what had happened:
On Friday evening, she was just seeing her son off as he went to stay
with his grand parents, & he was on the wall of the front garden. He
didn't come in as usual at around 8pm, so she started to call and look
for him. She searched the garden, the neighbors garden, the near
vicinity to the house, all the garages, & then got into the car and
started to search the village for him. She drove around for 3 hours
just calling him whilst her partner remained @ home in the slim chance
that he showed up there.....

Overnight they left the back door open and also the patio door too in
the hope that he just got caught up in cat company or locked into
someones shed or suchlike.. Nothing!
He hasn't been seen since....

By yesterday morning, they went searching in day light & posted fliers
through the entire estates doors in the hope that possibly someone
else had seen him. They put a notice in the news agents window, where
she noticed that she wasn't the only cat owner to have lost her
cat;there were 3 other missing cats in there too. The next stop was
the vet surgery, where she also noticed that there were **Many Other
cats missing** as well. There 12 cats in total missing in total if you
added all the cats together... ..;o( ALL of these cats went missing in
between Thursday night & Friday night, so things do not look very
hopeful at all.....

Not all of them are pedigree cats;there are 4 pedigree's & the other 8
are just normal everyday cats. Jack is a blue point Ragdoll, there
were 2 Persian cats and a birman also. The vet encouraged her to ring
the police, & I told her to try the shelters, the council (they pick
dead cats up here, that have either been run over, or found dead), &
all of the obvious charities such as the RSPCA, Cat Protection The
Ragdoll Rescue line. Not a single one of them have any news to impart.
Things are looking very grim here & I don't hold out much hope for her
either. It is so tragic too...

She loved that cat silly as we did. He was just under a year old ,
neutered & chipped.. but that doesn't mean a figs difference when
someone picks up your cat & simply clears off with it. I hate to think
who has taken him or what might have happened to him either.

Cyber, you had a very good point when you said that there are unseen
dangers. You never think of the biggest predator of all, THE HUMAN
BEING.

I am devastated for her & feel sick when I think of what might have
happened to him. Yet another reason to consider keeping your cats safe
indoors.!! The biggest shame is that he wasn't allowed out of the
garden normally. she only took her eye off him, & this is the
result..it's sickening;o(

Sheelagh

cindys
April 22nd 07, 07:05 PM
Again, I sit here sobbing over a cat I don't know. Please keep us posted.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.


"sheelagh" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Last night I had just sat down when I noticed that my mobile phone had
> multiple messages waiting for me to read. I picked it up & opened the
> messages that I could see were from a friend who had one of Belle's
> kittens out of her summer litter last year ,& started to read them in
> the order in which they arrived. As I started to read them, I could
> feel my blood almost congealing in my arteries.....
>
> The message read, " Jack has gone missing. The last time we saw him
> was on Friday evening at 6 pm.. Do you think he will come back"......
>
> The second message read, "still nothing".....
>
> The third one read, "He's gone.. I can't believe or accept it".....
>
> Even though it was 11.20pm, I called her because I knew she wouldn't
> be able to sleep whilst he was still missing. She picked up
> immediately & I asked what had happened:
> On Friday evening, she was just seeing her son off as he went to stay
> with his grand parents, & he was on the wall of the front garden. He
> didn't come in as usual at around 8pm, so she started to call and look
> for him. She searched the garden, the neighbors garden, the near
> vicinity to the house, all the garages, & then got into the car and
> started to search the village for him. She drove around for 3 hours
> just calling him whilst her partner remained @ home in the slim chance
> that he showed up there.....
>
> Overnight they left the back door open and also the patio door too in
> the hope that he just got caught up in cat company or locked into
> someones shed or suchlike.. Nothing!
> He hasn't been seen since....
>
> By yesterday morning, they went searching in day light & posted fliers
> through the entire estates doors in the hope that possibly someone
> else had seen him. They put a notice in the news agents window, where
> she noticed that she wasn't the only cat owner to have lost her
> cat;there were 3 other missing cats in there too. The next stop was
> the vet surgery, where she also noticed that there were **Many Other
> cats missing** as well. There 12 cats in total missing in total if you
> added all the cats together... ..;o( ALL of these cats went missing in
> between Thursday night & Friday night, so things do not look very
> hopeful at all.....
>
> Not all of them are pedigree cats;there are 4 pedigree's & the other 8
> are just normal everyday cats. Jack is a blue point Ragdoll, there
> were 2 Persian cats and a birman also. The vet encouraged her to ring
> the police, & I told her to try the shelters, the council (they pick
> dead cats up here, that have either been run over, or found dead), &
> all of the obvious charities such as the RSPCA, Cat Protection The
> Ragdoll Rescue line. Not a single one of them have any news to impart.
> Things are looking very grim here & I don't hold out much hope for her
> either. It is so tragic too...
>
> She loved that cat silly as we did. He was just under a year old ,
> neutered & chipped.. but that doesn't mean a figs difference when
> someone picks up your cat & simply clears off with it. I hate to think
> who has taken him or what might have happened to him either.
>
> Cyber, you had a very good point when you said that there are unseen
> dangers. You never think of the biggest predator of all, THE HUMAN
> BEING.
>
> I am devastated for her & feel sick when I think of what might have
> happened to him. Yet another reason to consider keeping your cats safe
> indoors.!! The biggest shame is that he wasn't allowed out of the
> garden normally. she only took her eye off him, & this is the
> result..it's sickening;o(
>
> Sheelagh
>

Matthew
April 22nd 07, 07:15 PM
"cindys" > wrote in message
...
> Again, I sit here sobbing over a cat I don't know. Please keep us posted.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
>
>

I know how you feel. I sit here in tears half the time I come to the group.
The other times I want to reach thru and ring some idiots neck
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Last night I had just sat down when I noticed that my mobile phone had
>> multiple messages waiting for me to read. I picked it up & opened the
>> messages that I could see were from a friend who had one of Belle's
>> kittens out of her summer litter last year ,& started to read them in
>> the order in which they arrived. As I started to read them, I could
>> feel my blood almost congealing in my arteries.....
>>
>> The message read, " Jack has gone missing. The last time we saw him
>> was on Friday evening at 6 pm.. Do you think he will come back"......
>>
>> The second message read, "still nothing".....
>>
>> The third one read, "He's gone.. I can't believe or accept it".....
>>
>> Even though it was 11.20pm, I called her because I knew she wouldn't
>> be able to sleep whilst he was still missing. She picked up
>> immediately & I asked what had happened:
>> On Friday evening, she was just seeing her son off as he went to stay
>> with his grand parents, & he was on the wall of the front garden. He
>> didn't come in as usual at around 8pm, so she started to call and look
>> for him. She searched the garden, the neighbors garden, the near
>> vicinity to the house, all the garages, & then got into the car and
>> started to search the village for him. She drove around for 3 hours
>> just calling him whilst her partner remained @ home in the slim chance
>> that he showed up there.....
>>
>> Overnight they left the back door open and also the patio door too in
>> the hope that he just got caught up in cat company or locked into
>> someones shed or suchlike.. Nothing!
>> He hasn't been seen since....
>>
>> By yesterday morning, they went searching in day light & posted fliers
>> through the entire estates doors in the hope that possibly someone
>> else had seen him. They put a notice in the news agents window, where
>> she noticed that she wasn't the only cat owner to have lost her
>> cat;there were 3 other missing cats in there too. The next stop was
>> the vet surgery, where she also noticed that there were **Many Other
>> cats missing** as well. There 12 cats in total missing in total if you
>> added all the cats together... ..;o( ALL of these cats went missing in
>> between Thursday night & Friday night, so things do not look very
>> hopeful at all.....
>>
>> Not all of them are pedigree cats;there are 4 pedigree's & the other 8
>> are just normal everyday cats. Jack is a blue point Ragdoll, there
>> were 2 Persian cats and a birman also. The vet encouraged her to ring
>> the police, & I told her to try the shelters, the council (they pick
>> dead cats up here, that have either been run over, or found dead), &
>> all of the obvious charities such as the RSPCA, Cat Protection The
>> Ragdoll Rescue line. Not a single one of them have any news to impart.
>> Things are looking very grim here & I don't hold out much hope for her
>> either. It is so tragic too...
>>
>> She loved that cat silly as we did. He was just under a year old ,
>> neutered & chipped.. but that doesn't mean a figs difference when
>> someone picks up your cat & simply clears off with it. I hate to think
>> who has taken him or what might have happened to him either.
>>
>> Cyber, you had a very good point when you said that there are unseen
>> dangers. You never think of the biggest predator of all, THE HUMAN
>> BEING.
>>
>> I am devastated for her & feel sick when I think of what might have
>> happened to him. Yet another reason to consider keeping your cats safe
>> indoors.!! The biggest shame is that he wasn't allowed out of the
>> garden normally. she only took her eye off him, & this is the
>> result..it's sickening;o(
>>
>> Sheelagh
>>
>
>

mlbriggs
April 22nd 07, 07:41 PM
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 10:56:08 -0700, sheelagh wrote:

> Last night I had just sat down when I noticed that my mobile phone had
> multiple messages waiting for me to read. I picked it up & opened the
> messages that I could see were from a friend who had one of Belle's
> kittens out of her summer litter last year ,& started to read them in
> the order in which they arrived. As I started to read them, I could
> feel my blood almost congealing in my arteries.....
>
> The message read, " Jack has gone missing. The last time we saw him
> was on Friday evening at 6 pm.. Do you think he will come back"......
>
> The second message read, "still nothing".....
>
> The third one read, "He's gone.. I can't believe or accept it".....
>
> Even though it was 11.20pm, I called her because I knew she wouldn't
> be able to sleep whilst he was still missing. She picked up
> immediately & I asked what had happened:
> On Friday evening, she was just seeing her son off as he went to stay
> with his grand parents, & he was on the wall of the front garden. He
> didn't come in as usual at around 8pm, so she started to call and look
> for him. She searched the garden, the neighbors garden, the near
> vicinity to the house, all the garages, & then got into the car and
> started to search the village for him. She drove around for 3 hours
> just calling him whilst her partner remained @ home in the slim chance
> that he showed up there.....
>
> Overnight they left the back door open and also the patio door too in
> the hope that he just got caught up in cat company or locked into
> someones shed or suchlike.. Nothing!
> He hasn't been seen since....
>
> By yesterday morning, they went searching in day light & posted fliers
> through the entire estates doors in the hope that possibly someone
> else had seen him. They put a notice in the news agents window, where
> she noticed that she wasn't the only cat owner to have lost her
> cat;there were 3 other missing cats in there too. The next stop was
> the vet surgery, where she also noticed that there were **Many Other
> cats missing** as well. There 12 cats in total missing in total if you
> added all the cats together... ..;o( ALL of these cats went missing in
> between Thursday night & Friday night, so things do not look very
> hopeful at all.....
>
> Not all of them are pedigree cats;there are 4 pedigree's & the other 8
> are just normal everyday cats. Jack is a blue point Ragdoll, there
> were 2 Persian cats and a birman also. The vet encouraged her to ring
> the police, & I told her to try the shelters, the council (they pick
> dead cats up here, that have either been run over, or found dead), &
> all of the obvious charities such as the RSPCA, Cat Protection The
> Ragdoll Rescue line. Not a single one of them have any news to impart.
> Things are looking very grim here & I don't hold out much hope for her
> either. It is so tragic too...
>
> She loved that cat silly as we did. He was just under a year old ,
> neutered & chipped.. but that doesn't mean a figs difference when
> someone picks up your cat & simply clears off with it. I hate to think
> who has taken him or what might have happened to him either.
>
> Cyber, you had a very good point when you said that there are unseen
> dangers. You never think of the biggest predator of all, THE HUMAN
> BEING.
>
> I am devastated for her & feel sick when I think of what might have
> happened to him. Yet another reason to consider keeping your cats safe
> indoors.!! The biggest shame is that he wasn't allowed out of the
> garden normally. she only took her eye off him, & this is the
> result..it's sickening;o(
>
> Sheelagh


It makes me wonder if there are any research facilities or medical
schools in the vicinity. I hope she reported this to the police.

chatnoir
April 22nd 07, 08:21 PM
sheelagh wrote:
> Last night I had just sat down when I noticed that my mobile phone had
> multiple messages waiting for me to read. I picked it up & opened the
> messages that I could see were from a friend who had one of Belle's
> kittens out of her summer litter last year ,& started to read them in
> the order in which they arrived. As I started to read them, I could
> feel my blood almost congealing in my arteries.....
>
> The message read, " Jack has gone missing. The last time we saw him
> was on Friday evening at 6 pm.. Do you think he will come back"......
>
> The second message read, "still nothing".....
>
> The third one read, "He's gone.. I can't believe or accept it".....
>
> Even though it was 11.20pm, I called her because I knew she wouldn't
> be able to sleep whilst he was still missing. She picked up
> immediately & I asked what had happened:
> On Friday evening, she was just seeing her son off as he went to stay
> with his grand parents, & he was on the wall of the front garden. He
> didn't come in as usual at around 8pm, so she started to call and look
> for him. She searched the garden, the neighbors garden, the near
> vicinity to the house, all the garages, & then got into the car and
> started to search the village for him. She drove around for 3 hours
> just calling him whilst her partner remained @ home in the slim chance
> that he showed up there.....
>
> Overnight they left the back door open and also the patio door too in
> the hope that he just got caught up in cat company or locked into
> someones shed or suchlike.. Nothing!
> He hasn't been seen since....
>
> By yesterday morning, they went searching in day light & posted fliers
> through the entire estates doors in the hope that possibly someone
> else had seen him. They put a notice in the news agents window, where
> she noticed that she wasn't the only cat owner to have lost her
> cat;there were 3 other missing cats in there too. The next stop was
> the vet surgery, where she also noticed that there were **Many Other
> cats missing** as well. There 12 cats in total missing in total if you
> added all the cats together... ..;o( ALL of these cats went missing in
> between Thursday night & Friday night, so things do not look very
> hopeful at all.....
>
> Not all of them are pedigree cats;there are 4 pedigree's & the other 8
> are just normal everyday cats. Jack is a blue point Ragdoll, there
> were 2 Persian cats and a birman also. The vet encouraged her to ring
> the police, & I told her to try the shelters, the council (they pick
> dead cats up here, that have either been run over, or found dead), &
> all of the obvious charities such as the RSPCA, Cat Protection The
> Ragdoll Rescue line. Not a single one of them have any news to impart.
> Things are looking very grim here & I don't hold out much hope for her
> either. It is so tragic too...
>
> She loved that cat silly as we did. He was just under a year old ,
> neutered & chipped.. but that doesn't mean a figs difference when
> someone picks up your cat & simply clears off with it. I hate to think
> who has taken him or what might have happened to him either.
>
> Cyber, you had a very good point when you said that there are unseen
> dangers. You never think of the biggest predator of all, THE HUMAN
> BEING.
>
> I am devastated for her & feel sick when I think of what might have
> happened to him. Yet another reason to consider keeping your cats safe
> indoors.!! The biggest shame is that he wasn't allowed out of the
> garden normally. she only took her eye off him, & this is the
> result..it's sickening;o(
>
> Sheelagh


That is a tragedy! People who find friendly cats will take them for
themselves! I suspect that they could not raise one themselve! Dogs
are a big problem!

Actually and outdoor enclosed cage has worked for me! Think I have
worked out all the breach possiblilities! Except a tree falling down
maybe!:

http://wolfbat359.com/catcage.html

http://wolfbat359.com/catcomput.html

http://wolfbat359.com/Catty.html

Poncho Villa still seeks the way out!:

http://wolfbat359.com/Catty031.jpg

bookie
April 22nd 07, 08:31 PM
On 22 Apr, 18:56, sheelagh > wrote:
> Last night I had just sat down when I noticed that my mobile phone had
> multiple messages waiting for me to read. I picked it up & opened the
> messages that I could see were from a friend who had one of Belle's
> kittens out of her summer litter last year ,& started to read them in
> the order in which they arrived. As I started to read them, I could
> feel my blood almost congealing in my arteries.....
>
> The message read, " Jack has gone missing. The last time we saw him
> was on Friday evening at 6 pm.. Do you think he will come back"......
>
> The second message read, "still nothing".....
>
> The third one read, "He's gone.. I can't believe or accept it".....
>
> Even though it was 11.20pm, I called her because I knew she wouldn't
> be able to sleep whilst he was still missing. She picked up
> immediately & I asked what had happened:
> On Friday evening, she was just seeing her son off as he went to stay
> with his grand parents, & he was on the wall of the front garden. He
> didn't come in as usual at around 8pm, so she started to call and look
> for him. She searched the garden, the neighbors garden, the near
> vicinity to the house, all the garages, & then got into the car and
> started to search the village for him. She drove around for 3 hours
> just calling him whilst her partner remained @ home in the slim chance
> that he showed up there.....
>
> Overnight they left the back door open and also the patio door too in
> the hope that he just got caught up in cat company or locked into
> someones shed or suchlike.. Nothing!
> He hasn't been seen since....
>
> By yesterday morning, they went searching in day light & posted fliers
> through the entire estates doors in the hope that possibly someone
> else had seen him. They put a notice in the news agents window, where
> she noticed that she wasn't the only cat owner to have lost her
> cat;there were 3 other missing cats in there too. The next stop was
> the vet surgery, where she also noticed that there were **Many Other
> cats missing** as well. There 12 cats in total missing in total if you
> added all the cats together... ..;o( ALL of these cats went missing in
> between Thursday night & Friday night, so things do not look very
> hopeful at all.....
>
> Not all of them are pedigree cats;there are 4 pedigree's & the other 8
> are just normal everyday cats. Jack is a blue point Ragdoll, there
> were 2 Persian cats and a birman also. The vet encouraged her to ring
> the police, & I told her to try the shelters, the council (they pick
> dead cats up here, that have either been run over, or found dead), &
> all of the obvious charities such as the RSPCA, Cat Protection The
> Ragdoll Rescue line. Not a single one of them have any news to impart.
> Things are looking very grim here & I don't hold out much hope for her
> either. It is so tragic too...
>
> She loved that cat silly as we did. He was just under a year old ,
> neutered & chipped.. but that doesn't mean a figs difference when
> someone picks up your cat & simply clears off with it. I hate to think
> who has taken him or what might have happened to him either.
>
> Cyber, you had a very good point when you said that there are unseen
> dangers. You never think of the biggest predator of all, THE HUMAN
> BEING.
>
> I am devastated for her & feel sick when I think of what might have
> happened to him. Yet another reason to consider keeping your cats safe
> indoors.!! The biggest shame is that he wasn't allowed out of the
> garden normally. she only took her eye off him, & this is the
> result..it's sickening;o(
>
> Sheelagh

that is awful and I feel for her, all i am hoping is that it is just a
case of him being locked in someone's shed over the weekend and them
ont realising, but then maybe I aam being too optimistic.
i am keeping my finger scrossesd but please keep us posted on any news
about him, poor fluffkin

bookie

Lynne
April 22nd 07, 09:36 PM
on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:21:24 GMT, chatnoir >
wrote:

> That is a tragedy! People who find friendly cats will take them for
> themselves! I suspect that they could not raise one themselve! Dogs
> are a big problem!

Since there were *12* cats missing, I seriously doubt they were stolen to
be pets...

Sheelagh, my heart goes out to you and her family. It sounds like
perhaps people in England need to reconsider letting their cats
outside...

My neighbors 'found' a kitten about 6 months ago. He was clearly
someone's pet, but had no collar. They brought him over here because he
looks a lot like Levi and is also about the same age. They decided to
keep him, even though I strongly suggested they have him scanned for a
chip (I even offered to take him). They declined and kept him inside and
didn't try to find his owners. I was annoyed, because I figure he was
someone's much loved pet, but on the other hand, whoever had him didn't
keep an eye on him so I figure they couldn't have been the greatest
owners. The neighbors who kept him said they were keeping him indoors,
and naturally I was happy to hear that. We live on a residential street,
but it's a cut-through street and people speed like crazy. There are
also tons of loose dogs around here.

Yesterday I saw their kitten playing in the front yard. *RAGE*

Sorry to go off track, but the bottom line is that cats are at risk out
doors, no matter where you live. And it sucks, but it's a reality that
needs to be accepted.

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

Lis
April 22nd 07, 09:57 PM
On Apr 22, 1:56 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
> Last night I had just sat down when I noticed that my mobile phone had
> multiple messages waiting for me to read. I picked it up & opened the
> messages that I could see were from a friend who had one of Belle's
> kittens out of her summer litter last year ,& started to read them in
> the order in which they arrived. As I started to read them, I could
> feel my blood almost congealing in my arteries.....
>
> The message read, " Jack has gone missing. The last time we saw him
> was on Friday evening at 6 pm.. Do you think he will come back"......
>
> The second message read, "still nothing".....
>
> The third one read, "He's gone.. I can't believe or accept it".....
>
> Even though it was 11.20pm, I called her because I knew she wouldn't
> be able to sleep whilst he was still missing. She picked up
> immediately & I asked what had happened:
> On Friday evening, she was just seeing her son off as he went to stay
> with his grand parents, & he was on the wall of the front garden. He
> didn't come in as usual at around 8pm, so she started to call and look
> for him. She searched the garden, the neighbors garden, the near
> vicinity to the house, all the garages, & then got into the car and
> started to search the village for him. She drove around for 3 hours
> just calling him whilst her partner remained @ home in the slim chance
> that he showed up there.....
>
> Overnight they left the back door open and also the patio door too in
> the hope that he just got caught up in cat company or locked into
> someones shed or suchlike.. Nothing!
> He hasn't been seen since....
>
> By yesterday morning, they went searching in day light & posted fliers
> through the entire estates doors in the hope that possibly someone
> else had seen him. They put a notice in the news agents window, where
> she noticed that she wasn't the only cat owner to have lost her
> cat;there were 3 other missing cats in there too. The next stop was
> the vet surgery, where she also noticed that there were **Many Other
> cats missing** as well. There 12 cats in total missing in total if you
> added all the cats together... ..;o( ALL of these cats went missing in
> between Thursday night & Friday night, so things do not look very
> hopeful at all.....
>
> Not all of them are pedigree cats;there are 4 pedigree's & the other 8
> are just normal everyday cats. Jack is a blue point Ragdoll, there
> were 2 Persian cats and a birman also. The vet encouraged her to ring
> the police, & I told her to try the shelters, the council (they pick
> dead cats up here, that have either been run over, or found dead), &
> all of the obvious charities such as the RSPCA, Cat Protection The
> Ragdoll Rescue line. Not a single one of them have any news to impart.
> Things are looking very grim here & I don't hold out much hope for her
> either. It is so tragic too...

Sheelagh, I'm very sorry. This is awful. My sympathies to all of you.

Lis

sheelagh
April 22nd 07, 11:37 PM
On 22 Apr, 21:36, Lynne > wrote:
> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:21:24 GMT, chatnoir >
> wrote:
>
> > That is a tragedy! People who find friendly cats will take them for
> > themselves! I suspect that they could not raise one themselve! Dogs
> > are a big problem!
>
> Since there were *12* cats missing, I seriously doubt they were stolen to
> be pets...
>
> Sheelagh, my heart goes out to you and her family. It sounds like
> perhaps people in England need to reconsider letting their cats
> outside...
>
> My neighbors 'found' a kitten about 6 months ago. He was clearly
> someone's pet, but had no collar. They brought him over here because he
> looks a lot like Levi and is also about the same age. They decided to
> keep him, even though I strongly suggested they have him scanned for a
> chip (I even offered to take him). They declined and kept him inside and
> didn't try to find his owners. I was annoyed, because I figure he was
> someone's much loved pet, but on the other hand, whoever had him didn't
> keep an eye on him so I figure they couldn't have been the greatest
> owners. The neighbors who kept him said they were keeping him indoors,
> and naturally I was happy to hear that. We live on a residential street,
> but it's a cut-through street and people speed like crazy. There are
> also tons of loose dogs around here.
>
> Yesterday I saw their kitten playing in the front yard. *RAGE*
>
> Sorry to go off track, but the bottom line is that cats are at risk out
> doors, no matter where you live. And it sucks, but it's a reality that
> needs to be accepted.
>
> --
> Lynne
>
> "We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
> We are brave enough to bend to cry
> And sad enough to know
> We must laugh again"
>
> ~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

Thanks to all of you. I have passed on your messages of sympathy to
her.
Actually, I have only just walked in. I am afraid we have found out
what happened to him & the story only gets worse...

I was sitting here twiddling my thumb's so I figured I would go & see
her (Michelle).
Upon my arrival the police arrived too. Michelle's partner, Ivan was
out in the garden some 40 minutes earlier, when he heard a Ping,
closely followed by another, so close to him that he felt the air
whistle past him. He knew immediately what it was..an Air Rifle!!

He ran straight indoors and rang the police, because at the time, his
son was in the garden with him. How dangerous could the situation have
been. I was there when the police came in to take a statement & it
turns out that 6 of the cat's owners live in a very close proximity to
them. The information/statement was enough to warrant them going to
the house where Ivan thought the pellets came from to investigate the
facts and establish as much as they could under the circumstances.
(Given that two people were shot at, one of which was an 18 month old
little boy..mind numbing isn't it?)

They were not invited in to the property & no statement was offered so
they had to go back to the station to obtain a warrant to search the
premises, which happens to be right next to a building site. They got
their warrant went back to the house 30 Min's later with permission
to search the property & the power to arrest anyone that they thought
might have information to offer. ....

It didn't take very long to establish the facts. One of the youths
that lived there was found on the building site to the side of the
house, directly behind Michelle's house with a spade trying to bury 3
cats, one of which was baby Jack. Ivan went to identify poor little
Jack & 3 youths have been arrested & are presently being interviewed
by the police.....

To say that we are all devastated is a massive understatement. It
seems almost impossible to conceive or believe that this has happened
so soon after Ringo was shot just a few short miles down the road. I
am filled with a rage that is even worse than I felt when that
happened. I have no idea why it feels worse, but it does:o(
I am feeling outraged, angry flooded with sorrow & utter sympathy for
Michelle who I *know* loved him dearly. She was always sending me
photos of him via mobile phone & I was receiving messages on a weekly
basis for the whole of the last year to let me know what he was up to
& how he was doing too. She is *Gutted*...

I am simply too angry to even go near the place right now. I need to
calm down first. I feel for Michelle though because she has to live
there in the knowledge that this was done by someone that she used to
call a neighbor..some neighbor!!

I have no idea what will happen in this case because it was a
different weapon, a child was shot at & the police caught them trying
to conceal/dispose several cats @ the same time. I will keep you all
informed though, rest assured on that one!!

RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07

Here are a few photos of Jack the week he left us and went to live
with his new mummy @ 12 weeks old...He will be greatly missed by us
all

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/Jack

I will keep you all informed as to how this one progresses of
course.Right now for me jail would be too good for them. I am
SEETHING...
We do need to reconsider our security Lynne. It is is sad...

Sheelagh

Lynne
April 22nd 07, 11:45 PM
on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh >
wrote:

> She is *Gutted*..

Oh my god. I am horrified. I don't know what else to say. Sheelagh, I'm
so sorry.


I need to throw up.

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

Matthew
April 22nd 07, 11:55 PM
Sheelagh I am so sorry. I am in tears right now.

I am going to go find a peaceful place with my furballs for a while before I
go find some reason to get into trouble


"sheelagh" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On 22 Apr, 21:36, Lynne > wrote:
>> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:21:24 GMT, chatnoir >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > That is a tragedy! People who find friendly cats will take them for
>> > themselves! I suspect that they could not raise one themselve! Dogs
>> > are a big problem!
>>
>> Since there were *12* cats missing, I seriously doubt they were stolen to
>> be pets...
>>
>> Sheelagh, my heart goes out to you and her family. It sounds like
>> perhaps people in England need to reconsider letting their cats
>> outside...
>>
>> My neighbors 'found' a kitten about 6 months ago. He was clearly
>> someone's pet, but had no collar. They brought him over here because he
>> looks a lot like Levi and is also about the same age. They decided to
>> keep him, even though I strongly suggested they have him scanned for a
>> chip (I even offered to take him). They declined and kept him inside and
>> didn't try to find his owners. I was annoyed, because I figure he was
>> someone's much loved pet, but on the other hand, whoever had him didn't
>> keep an eye on him so I figure they couldn't have been the greatest
>> owners. The neighbors who kept him said they were keeping him indoors,
>> and naturally I was happy to hear that. We live on a residential street,
>> but it's a cut-through street and people speed like crazy. There are
>> also tons of loose dogs around here.
>>
>> Yesterday I saw their kitten playing in the front yard. *RAGE*
>>
>> Sorry to go off track, but the bottom line is that cats are at risk out
>> doors, no matter where you live. And it sucks, but it's a reality that
>> needs to be accepted.
>>
>> --
>> Lynne
>>
>> "We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
>> We are brave enough to bend to cry
>> And sad enough to know
>> We must laugh again"
>>
>> ~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech
>
> Thanks to all of you. I have passed on your messages of sympathy to
> her.
> Actually, I have only just walked in. I am afraid we have found out
> what happened to him & the story only gets worse...
>
> I was sitting here twiddling my thumb's so I figured I would go & see
> her (Michelle).
> Upon my arrival the police arrived too. Michelle's partner, Ivan was
> out in the garden some 40 minutes earlier, when he heard a Ping,
> closely followed by another, so close to him that he felt the air
> whistle past him. He knew immediately what it was..an Air Rifle!!
>
> He ran straight indoors and rang the police, because at the time, his
> son was in the garden with him. How dangerous could the situation have
> been. I was there when the police came in to take a statement & it
> turns out that 6 of the cat's owners live in a very close proximity to
> them. The information/statement was enough to warrant them going to
> the house where Ivan thought the pellets came from to investigate the
> facts and establish as much as they could under the circumstances.
> (Given that two people were shot at, one of which was an 18 month old
> little boy..mind numbing isn't it?)
>
> They were not invited in to the property & no statement was offered so
> they had to go back to the station to obtain a warrant to search the
> premises, which happens to be right next to a building site. They got
> their warrant went back to the house 30 Min's later with permission
> to search the property & the power to arrest anyone that they thought
> might have information to offer. ....
>
> It didn't take very long to establish the facts. One of the youths
> that lived there was found on the building site to the side of the
> house, directly behind Michelle's house with a spade trying to bury 3
> cats, one of which was baby Jack. Ivan went to identify poor little
> Jack & 3 youths have been arrested & are presently being interviewed
> by the police.....
>
> To say that we are all devastated is a massive understatement. It
> seems almost impossible to conceive or believe that this has happened
> so soon after Ringo was shot just a few short miles down the road. I
> am filled with a rage that is even worse than I felt when that
> happened. I have no idea why it feels worse, but it does:o(
> I am feeling outraged, angry flooded with sorrow & utter sympathy for
> Michelle who I *know* loved him dearly. She was always sending me
> photos of him via mobile phone & I was receiving messages on a weekly
> basis for the whole of the last year to let me know what he was up to
> & how he was doing too. She is *Gutted*...
>
> I am simply too angry to even go near the place right now. I need to
> calm down first. I feel for Michelle though because she has to live
> there in the knowledge that this was done by someone that she used to
> call a neighbor..some neighbor!!
>
> I have no idea what will happen in this case because it was a
> different weapon, a child was shot at & the police caught them trying
> to conceal/dispose several cats @ the same time. I will keep you all
> informed though, rest assured on that one!!
>
> RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07
>
> Here are a few photos of Jack the week he left us and went to live
> with his new mummy @ 12 weeks old...He will be greatly missed by us
> all
>
> http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/Jack
>
> I will keep you all informed as to how this one progresses of
> course.Right now for me jail would be too good for them. I am
> SEETHING...
> We do need to reconsider our security Lynne. It is is sad...
>
> Sheelagh
>

cindys
April 22nd 07, 11:56 PM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh >
> wrote:
>
>> She is *Gutted*..
>
> Oh my god. I am horrified. I don't know what else to say. Sheelagh, I'm
> so sorry.
>
>
> I need to throw up.
----------
I was just about to post "I need to throw up," but you beat me to it. There
is nothing left to say.....
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

cindys
April 23rd 07, 12:12 AM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh >
> wrote:
>
>> She is *Gutted*..
>
> Oh my god. I am horrified. I don't know what else to say. Sheelagh, I'm
> so sorry.
>
>
> I need to throw up.
-----------
I just also posted that I needed to throw up and that there was nothing more
to say. Actually, there is something more thing to say: For anyone who was
previously defending the law that allows juveniles to get off with a warning
and emerge with a clean record.....The fact that these animals who killed
Jack and the other cats also shot at *people,* including an18-month-old
toddler says it all. I hope these *youths* are prosecuted to the full extent
of the law, and they are put away for a long, long time, but the unfortunate
fact is that I am convinced that people such as these will remain a danger
to society for the rest of their lives, no matter how they are punished.
Psychopaths always start out hurting and killing animals. There is something
totally terrifying about someone who is so devoid of emotion, sympathy,
morals etc that he can cold-bloodedly kill a dozen cats and shoot an air
rifle at a toddler, who also could have been killed. And the fact that it
wasn't just one *youth* but several *youths* acting together is also
terrifying. In the USA, if they had killed a person, the charge would have
been first-degree murder, and in the USA, a juvenile who commits murder is
prosecuted as an adult.

Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who
managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and
gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own
blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's
belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail
every year...I think that's terrifying.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

sheelagh
April 23rd 07, 12:37 AM
On 22 Apr, 23:56, "cindys" > wrote:
> "Lynne" > wrote in message
>
> m...> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh >
> > wrote:
>
> >> She is *Gutted*..
>
> > Oh my god. I am horrified. I don't know what else to say. Sheelagh, I'm
> > so sorry.
>
> > I need to throw up.
>
> ----------
> I was just about to post "I need to throw up," but you beat me to it. There
> is nothing left to say.....
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.


>I need to throw up.

I think we all feel the same way. I have been blubbering all day, but
upon hearing hearing had been shot, my heart nearly burst....

The chances of that happening to us both must be however million to to
two..but happen it has;o( I feel so disillusioned with humans right
now & the anger that is bubbling in my tummy doesn't bare thinking
about).. I am incredulous to be frank..

Jack was one of the softest natured cats that we have ever bred.
Michelle has two small boys who used to cuddle him ,pick him up, play
with him, even push him around in the buggy (push chair/stroller.. not
sure what you would call it?) & even sleep with on the sofa with him
as their pillow. both boys are inconsolable, as their mother is. Ivan
is just about holding it all together but you can see & feel the
tension in him. I just hope that he keeps a cool head & doesn't do
anything (just yet..) to jeopardise any hope of nailing the [email protected]

I have already spoken to the spoken to the news desk at our local
paper to tell them about this story, & I have encouraged Michelle to
find out who all of the other owners are & rally them all to do the
same too. Why the hell should they get away with this. A BB Gun is
something, but a powerful air rifle is something altogether
different..or so I am led to believe. I don't know for sure.

Also, they aimed at a man & his child in the sanctuary of their own
garden & home too. In my book, that is a totally different kettle of
fish.. Prison would be too good for them. Hanging might absolve some
of our anger..How in all conscience, can you aim an air rifle at a
child. I need to learn far more about guns. In fact I might even apply
for a licence myself now. I see no reason for not getting one
either...oh I don't know really. That would be wrong too. It is hard
to look at it objectively right now. Perhaps I will see it better in
the cold light of day?

I am going to have to get hold of the Cat Protection League & ask them
to notify everyone that they can to let people know what is happening
to the cats in our area. We must all do something to protect them from
maniacs.
Jack didn't even reach his first birthday. How sad can it get?

S.

cindys
April 23rd 07, 12:50 AM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On 22 Apr, 23:56, "cindys" > wrote:
>> "Lynne" > wrote in message
>>
>> m...> on Sun, 22 Apr
>> 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh >
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >> She is *Gutted*..
>>
>> > Oh my god. I am horrified. I don't know what else to say. Sheelagh,
>> > I'm
>> > so sorry.
>>
>> > I need to throw up.
>>
>> ----------
>> I was just about to post "I need to throw up," but you beat me to it.
>> There
>> is nothing left to say.....
>> Best regards,
>> ---Cindy S.
>
>
>>I need to throw up.
>
> I think we all feel the same way. I have been blubbering all day, but
> upon hearing hearing had been shot, my heart nearly burst....
>
> The chances of that happening to us both must be however million to to
> two..but happen it has;o( I feel so disillusioned with humans right
> now & the anger that is bubbling in my tummy doesn't bare thinking
> about).. I am incredulous to be frank..
>
> Jack was one of the softest natured cats that we have ever bred.
> Michelle has two small boys who used to cuddle him ,pick him up, play
> with him, even push him around in the buggy (push chair/stroller.. not
> sure what you would call it?) & even sleep with on the sofa with him
> as their pillow. both boys are inconsolable, as their mother is. Ivan
> is just about holding it all together but you can see & feel the
> tension in him. I just hope that he keeps a cool head & doesn't do
> anything (just yet..) to jeopardise any hope of nailing the [email protected]
>
> I have already spoken to the spoken to the news desk at our local
> paper to tell them about this story, & I have encouraged Michelle to
> find out who all of the other owners are & rally them all to do the
> same too. Why the hell should they get away with this. A BB Gun is
> something, but a powerful air rifle is something altogether
> different..or so I am led to believe. I don't know for sure.
>
> Also, they aimed at a man & his child in the sanctuary of their own
> garden & home too. In my book, that is a totally different kettle of
> fish.. Prison would be too good for them. Hanging might absolve some
> of our anger..How in all conscience, can you aim an air rifle at a
> child. I need to learn far more about guns. In fact I might even apply
> for a licence myself now. I see no reason for not getting one
> either...oh I don't know really. That would be wrong too. It is hard
> to look at it objectively right now. Perhaps I will see it better in
> the cold light of day?
>
> I am going to have to get hold of the Cat Protection League & ask them
> to notify everyone that they can to let people know what is happening
> to the cats in our area. We must all do something to protect them from
> maniacs.
> Jack didn't even reach his first birthday. How sad can it get?
-----------
Oh, Sheelagh.......***Total Sobbing***
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

sheelagh
April 23rd 07, 01:01 AM
On 23 Apr, 00:12, "cindys" > wrote:
> "Lynne" > wrote in message
>
> m...> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh >
> > wrote:
>
> >> She is *Gutted*..
>
> > Oh my god. I am horrified. I don't know what else to say. Sheelagh, I'm
> > so sorry.
>
> > I need to throw up.
>
> -----------
> I just also posted that I needed to throw up and that there was nothing more
> to say. Actually, there is something more thing to say: For anyone who was
> previously defending the law that allows juveniles to get off with a warning
> and emerge with a clean record.....The fact that these animals who killed
> Jack and the other cats also shot at *people,* including an18-month-old
> toddler says it all. I hope these *youths* are prosecuted to the full extent
> of the law, and they are put away for a long, long time, but the unfortunate
> fact is that I am convinced that people such as these will remain a danger
> to society for the rest of their lives, no matter how they are punished.
> Psychopaths always start out hurting and killing animals. There is something
> totally terrifying about someone who is so devoid of emotion, sympathy,
> morals etc that he can cold-bloodedly kill a dozen cats and shoot an air
> rifle at a toddler, who also could have been killed. And the fact that it
> wasn't just one *youth* but several *youths* acting together is also
> terrifying. In the USA, if they had killed a person, the charge would have
> been first-degree murder, and in the USA, a juvenile who commits murder is
> prosecuted as an adult.
>
> Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who
> managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and
> gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own
> blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's
> belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail
> every year...I think that's terrifying.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.


> Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who
> managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and
> gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own
> blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's
> belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail
> every year...I think that's terrifying.

OMG, Really..?

That is dreadful. It is beyond my comprehension as to why we as tax
payers should have to pay to keep cretins like this alive. The
disgusting thought of killing an unborn child is worse than any other
crime that I can think of. Horrific in fact...Bring back Hanging, or
if we are too yellow bellied for that in the UK, the lethal injection
will do just fine....

When Ringo was shot, I felt anger that I didn't know was within
me..But that is nothing compared to what I feel today. as Bookie said,
I was hoping against hope that he was in some one's garden shed, or
even stolen.. But to be there when the police arrived to impart the
news that they thought they had found Jack & that they needed someone
to identify him then to take in the fact that they were aiming a
weapon @ an 18 month old child, pushed me past anger & sent me into a
rage I have ***never***experienced before....

Shooting @ a child HAS to be taken seriously. It **IS** ATTEMPED
MURDER. I really can't tale it all in right now. It feels like I am
hovering above myself watching it all unfold. I think the ultimate
question has to be **WHY** did they do it???
I would imagine that I feel the same way @ this very moment as you all
must have felt when you all heard about this Cho geyser. They are
beyond feeling is my only thought....

Right now, they really do disgust me. I am in constant touch with
Mummy ( Michelle) & will keep you all up to date with this as it
unfolds. I will push her every inch of the way, & be there for her
when she needs me too. this will not go unpunished, I assure you of
that.. Our poor darling cat Jack. We will stand up and be counted for
this crime..
S.

mlbriggs
April 23rd 07, 01:06 AM
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 16:37:00 -0700, sheelagh wrote:

> On 22 Apr, 23:56, "cindys" > wrote:
>> "Lynne" > wrote in message
>>
>> m...> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh >
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >> She is *Gutted*..
>>
>> > Oh my god. I am horrified. I don't know what else to say. Sheelagh, I'm
>> > so sorry.
>>
>> > I need to throw up.
>>
>> ----------
>> I was just about to post "I need to throw up," but you beat me to it. There
>> is nothing left to say.....
>> Best regards,
>> ---Cindy S.
>
>
>>I need to throw up.
>
> I think we all feel the same way. I have been blubbering all day, but
> upon hearing hearing had been shot, my heart nearly burst....
>
> The chances of that happening to us both must be however million to to
> two..but happen it has;o( I feel so disillusioned with humans right
> now & the anger that is bubbling in my tummy doesn't bare thinking
> about).. I am incredulous to be frank..
>
> Jack was one of the softest natured cats that we have ever bred.
> Michelle has two small boys who used to cuddle him ,pick him up, play
> with him, even push him around in the buggy (push chair/stroller.. not
> sure what you would call it?) & even sleep with on the sofa with him
> as their pillow. both boys are inconsolable, as their mother is. Ivan
> is just about holding it all together but you can see & feel the
> tension in him. I just hope that he keeps a cool head & doesn't do
> anything (just yet..) to jeopardise any hope of nailing the [email protected]
>
> I have already spoken to the spoken to the news desk at our local
> paper to tell them about this story, & I have encouraged Michelle to
> find out who all of the other owners are & rally them all to do the
> same too. Why the hell should they get away with this. A BB Gun is
> something, but a powerful air rifle is something altogether
> different..or so I am led to believe. I don't know for sure.
>
> Also, they aimed at a man & his child in the sanctuary of their own
> garden & home too. In my book, that is a totally different kettle of
> fish.. Prison would be too good for them. Hanging might absolve some
> of our anger..How in all conscience, can you aim an air rifle at a
> child. I need to learn far more about guns. In fact I might even apply
> for a licence myself now. I see no reason for not getting one
> either...oh I don't know really. That would be wrong too. It is hard
> to look at it objectively right now. Perhaps I will see it better in
> the cold light of day?
>
> I am going to have to get hold of the Cat Protection League & ask them
> to notify everyone that they can to let people know what is happening
> to the cats in our area. We must all do something to protect them from
> maniacs.
> Jack didn't even reach his first birthday. How sad can it get?
>
> S.


This is truly a horror story. Do you know the ages of the culprits? Were
they children, teenagers or adults? My sincere sympathy to all. MLB

bookie
April 23rd 07, 01:14 AM
On 22 Apr, 23:37, sheelagh > wrote:
> On 22 Apr, 21:36, Lynne > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:21:24 GMT, chatnoir >
> > wrote:
>
> > > That is a tragedy! People who find friendly cats will take them for
> > > themselves! I suspect that they could not raise one themselve! Dogs
> > > are a big problem!
>
> > Since there were *12* cats missing, I seriously doubt they were stolen to
> > be pets...
>
> > Sheelagh, my heart goes out to you and her family. It sounds like
> > perhaps people in England need to reconsider letting their cats
> > outside...
>
> > My neighbors 'found' a kitten about 6 months ago. He was clearly
> > someone's pet, but had no collar. They brought him over here because he
> > looks a lot like Levi and is also about the same age. They decided to
> > keep him, even though I strongly suggested they have him scanned for a
> > chip (I even offered to take him). They declined and kept him inside and
> > didn't try to find his owners. I was annoyed, because I figure he was
> > someone's much loved pet, but on the other hand, whoever had him didn't
> > keep an eye on him so I figure they couldn't have been the greatest
> > owners. The neighbors who kept him said they were keeping him indoors,
> > and naturally I was happy to hear that. We live on a residential street,
> > but it's a cut-through street and people speed like crazy. There are
> > also tons of loose dogs around here.
>
> > Yesterday I saw their kitten playing in the front yard. *RAGE*
>
> > Sorry to go off track, but the bottom line is that cats are at risk out
> > doors, no matter where you live. And it sucks, but it's a reality that
> > needs to be accepted.
>
> > --
> > Lynne
>
> > "We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
> > We are brave enough to bend to cry
> > And sad enough to know
> > We must laugh again"
>
> > ~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech
>
> Thanks to all of you. I have passed on your messages of sympathy to
> her.
> Actually, I have only just walked in. I am afraid we have found out
> what happened to him & the story only gets worse...
>
> I was sitting here twiddling my thumb's so I figured I would go & see
> her (Michelle).
> Upon my arrival the police arrived too. Michelle's partner, Ivan was
> out in the garden some 40 minutes earlier, when he heard a Ping,
> closely followed by another, so close to him that he felt the air
> whistle past him. He knew immediately what it was..an Air Rifle!!
>
> He ran straight indoors and rang the police, because at the time, his
> son was in the garden with him. How dangerous could the situation have
> been. I was there when the police came in to take a statement & it
> turns out that 6 of the cat's owners live in a very close proximity to
> them. The information/statement was enough to warrant them going to
> the house where Ivan thought the pellets came from to investigate the
> facts and establish as much as they could under the circumstances.
> (Given that two people were shot at, one of which was an 18 month old
> little boy..mind numbing isn't it?)
>
> They were not invited in to the property & no statement was offered so
> they had to go back to the station to obtain a warrant to search the
> premises, which happens to be right next to a building site. They got
> their warrant went back to the house 30 Min's later with permission
> to search the property & the power to arrest anyone that they thought
> might have information to offer. ....
>
> It didn't take very long to establish the facts. One of the youths
> that lived there was found on the building site to the side of the
> house, directly behind Michelle's house with a spade trying to bury 3
> cats, one of which was baby Jack. Ivan went to identify poor little
> Jack & 3 youths have been arrested & are presently being interviewed
> by the police.....
>
> To say that we are all devastated is a massive understatement. It
> seems almost impossible to conceive or believe that this has happened
> so soon after Ringo was shot just a few short miles down the road. I
> am filled with a rage that is even worse than I felt when that
> happened. I have no idea why it feels worse, but it does:o(
> I am feeling outraged, angry flooded with sorrow & utter sympathy for
> Michelle who I *know* loved him dearly. She was always sending me
> photos of him via mobile phone & I was receiving messages on a weekly
> basis for the whole of the last year to let me know what he was up to
> & how he was doing too. She is *Gutted*...
>
> I am simply too angry to even go near the place right now. I need to
> calm down first. I feel for Michelle though because she has to live
> there in the knowledge that this was done by someone that she used to
> call a neighbor..some neighbor!!
>
> I have no idea what will happen in this case because it was a
> different weapon, a child was shot at & the police caught them trying
> to conceal/dispose several cats @ the same time. I will keep you all
> informed though, rest assured on that one!!
>
> RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07
>
> Here are a few photos of Jack the week he left us and went to live
> with his new mummy @ 12 weeks old...He will be greatly missed by us
> all
>
> http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/Jack
>
> I will keep you all informed as to how this one progresses of
> course.Right now for me jail would be too good for them. I am
> SEETHING...
> We do need to reconsider our security Lynne. It is is sad...
>
> Sheelagh- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

poor soft little angel, he looked so beautiful with those big blue
eyes, poor little darling.
i tell you if I had come across that kid trying to bury those cats I
would have taken the spade from his hands and smashed his evil head in
with it, what a nasty little ****, someone like that should not be
allowed to walk the streets free, obviously has no respect for life of
any sort and does not deserve any leniancy form any judge. It is
people like that who make me truly ashamed to be human, killing
innocent creatures purely of the fun of it.

nasty stuff and i feel for poor jacks mum she must miss him so bad
bookie

bookie
April 23rd 07, 01:22 AM
On 23 Apr, 00:12, "cindys" > wrote:
> "Lynne" > wrote in message
>
> m...> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh >
> > wrote:
>
> >> She is *Gutted*..
>
> > Oh my god. I am horrified. I don't know what else to say. Sheelagh, I'm
> > so sorry.
>
> > I need to throw up.
>
> -----------
> I just also posted that I needed to throw up and that there was nothing more
> to say. Actually, there is something more thing to say: For anyone who was
> previously defending the law that allows juveniles to get off with a warning
> and emerge with a clean record.....The fact that these animals who killed
> Jack and the other cats also shot at *people,* including an18-month-old
> toddler says it all. I hope these *youths* are prosecuted to the full extent
> of the law, and they are put away for a long, long time, but the unfortunate
> fact is that I am convinced that people such as these will remain a danger
> to society for the rest of their lives, no matter how they are punished.
> Psychopaths always start out hurting and killing animals. There is something
> totally terrifying about someone who is so devoid of emotion, sympathy,
> morals etc that he can cold-bloodedly kill a dozen cats and shoot an air
> rifle at a toddler, who also could have been killed. And the fact that it
> wasn't just one *youth* but several *youths* acting together is also
> terrifying. In the USA, if they had killed a person, the charge would have
> been first-degree murder, and in the USA, a juvenile who commits murder is
> prosecuted as an adult.
>
i agree with you totally here, there is known to be a very strong link
between people who have hurt or jkilled animals in their youth and
those who go onto hurt and abuse humans later on in life
now personally i think it is evil enough to inflict cruelty and pain
on animals, domestic or not, and that alone should produce a long
custodial sentence for the offender, but if the idea that the person
will then go on to hurt humans (who in my opinion now do not deserve
my sympathy) gets such a monster put away because of what they MIGHT
do in future then that is fine by me. It's a means to and end you see

> Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who
> managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and
> gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own
> blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's
> belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail
> every year...I think that's terrifying.

some nutty woman wants to marry him, or maybe she has already, what is
wrong with these people? how can they idolise this person?


bookie

sheelagh
April 23rd 07, 01:32 AM
On 23 Apr, 01:06, mlbriggs > wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 16:37:00 -0700, sheelagh wrote:
> > On 22 Apr, 23:56, "cindys" > wrote:
> >> "Lynne" > wrote in message
>
> m...> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh >
> >> > wrote:
>
> >> >> She is *Gutted*..
>
> >> > Oh my god. I am horrified. I don't know what else to say. Sheelagh, I'm
> >> > so sorry.
>
> >> > I need to throw up.
>
> >> ----------
> >> I was just about to post "I need to throw up," but you beat me to it. There
> >> is nothing left to say.....
> >> Best regards,
> >> ---Cindy S.
>
> >>I need to throw up.
>
> > I think we all feel the same way. I have been blubbering all day, but
> > upon hearing hearing had been shot, my heart nearly burst....
>
> > The chances of that happening to us both must be however million to to
> > two..but happen it has;o( I feel so disillusioned with humans right
> > now & the anger that is bubbling in my tummy doesn't bare thinking
> > about).. I am incredulous to be frank..
>
> > Jack was one of the softest natured cats that we have ever bred.
> > Michelle has two small boys who used to cuddle him ,pick him up, play
> > with him, even push him around in the buggy (push chair/stroller.. not
> > sure what you would call it?) & even sleep with on the sofa with him
> > as their pillow. both boys are inconsolable, as their mother is. Ivan
> > is just about holding it all together but you can see & feel the
> > tension in him. I just hope that he keeps a cool head & doesn't do
> > anything (just yet..) to jeopardise any hope of nailing the [email protected]
>
> > I have already spoken to the spoken to the news desk at our local
> > paper to tell them about this story, & I have encouraged Michelle to
> > find out who all of the other owners are & rally them all to do the
> > same too. Why the hell should they get away with this. A BB Gun is
> > something, but a powerful air rifle is something altogether
> > different..or so I am led to believe. I don't know for sure.
>
> > Also, they aimed at a man & his child in the sanctuary of their own
> > garden & home too. In my book, that is a totally different kettle of
> > fish.. Prison would be too good for them. Hanging might absolve some
> > of our anger..How in all conscience, can you aim an air rifle at a
> > child. I need to learn far more about guns. In fact I might even apply
> > for a licence myself now. I see no reason for not getting one
> > either...oh I don't know really. That would be wrong too. It is hard
> > to look at it objectively right now. Perhaps I will see it better in
> > the cold light of day?
>
> > I am going to have to get hold of the Cat Protection League & ask them
> > to notify everyone that they can to let people know what is happening
> > to the cats in our area. We must all do something to protect them from
> > maniacs.
> > Jack didn't even reach his first birthday. How sad can it get?
>
> > S.
>
> This is truly a horror story. Do you know the ages of the culprits? Were
> they children, teenagers or adults? My sincere sympathy to all. MLB- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



Oh, Sheelagh.......***Total Sobbing***

Us too. It is a tremendous loss to us all.
He was soft, handsome and in his prime of kitten-hood. A cat that
anyone would have been proud to belong to him.

No, I didn't even think to ask @ the time. The police just described
them as youths.
I will make a point of asking later this morning
( I don't like to ask now as it is 01.15am here), & I am hoping that
after over 48 hours awake, that they might be able to get a little
sleep tonight. It is tragic, but at least we know the truth now,
horrific as it is...The not knowing was terrible.

Thank you to all of you. I will pass on all your regards to the
familly, later in the morning.

Time to say a prayer & allow him to carry the bit of my heart that was
& will ever be his as he crosses that Rainbow Bridge - & looks down
with utter sympathy on his human family. He loved them as mutually as
they loved him. It was plain as daylight is. I'm certain that he will
miss them as much as they will miss him. Our only consolation is that
he is in no pain any longer..He will always be in my heart & prayers.

I was just fortunate & lucky enough to have the privilege of helping
his maternal mother to cut his cord, care for him, wean him & and send
him out into the big world with the right family to slave for him. I
don't regret a moment of it or the family I chose either.

Sheelagh

mariib via CatKB.com
April 23rd 07, 01:47 AM
cindys wrote:
>> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh >
>> wrote:
>[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>>
>> I need to throw up.
>-----------
>I just also posted that I needed to throw up and that there was nothing more
>to say. Actually, there is something more thing to say: For anyone who was
>previously defending the law that allows juveniles to get off with a warning
>and emerge with a clean record.....The fact that these animals who killed
>Jack and the other cats also shot at *people,* including an18-month-old
>toddler says it all. I hope these *youths* are prosecuted to the full extent
>of the law, and they are put away for a long, long time, but the unfortunate
>fact is that I am convinced that people such as these will remain a danger
>to society for the rest of their lives, no matter how they are punished.
>Psychopaths always start out hurting and killing animals. There is something
>totally terrifying about someone who is so devoid of emotion, sympathy,
>morals etc that he can cold-bloodedly kill a dozen cats and shoot an air
>rifle at a toddler, who also could have been killed. And the fact that it
>wasn't just one *youth* but several *youths* acting together is also
>terrifying. In the USA, if they had killed a person, the charge would have
>been first-degree murder, and in the USA, a juvenile who commits murder is
>prosecuted as an adult.
>
>Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who
>managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and
>gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own
>blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's
>belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail
>every year...I think that's terrifying.
>Best regards,
>---Cindy S.

Sheelagh, all my sympathy to your friend & you for this terrible act. I don't
know how juveniles are treated in England, & cindys says in the US, a
juvenile is treated as an adult. Good thing this didn't happen in Canada,
because here juveniles who commit any offence (as well as all adult criminals)
are coddled & barely punished - if indeed they're ever brought to trial in
time - lawyers delay & delay & delay & then the charges are thrown out & the
criminals go free. And of course, we must not abuse their rights, because
there must be something awful in their background that caused them to do this
i.e. it's always society's fault - no one wants to take responsibility for
what they've done, just pass the blame. Canadian justice concentrates on the
rights of the criminals, not on the rights of the victims & their families.
And if the police are lucky enough to press charges & actually get a
conviction, the criminals are usually out of jail after serving less than 1/3
of the sentence - & sentences here are *much* more lenient than in the US.
Sorry for the rant!
M.

--
Message posted via http://www.catkb.com

chatnoir
April 23rd 07, 02:41 AM
On Apr 22, 6:01 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
> On 23 Apr, 00:12, "cindys" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Lynne" > wrote in message
>
> m...> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh >
> > > wrote:
>
> > >> She is *Gutted*..
>
> > > Oh my god. I am horrified. I don't know what else to say. Sheelagh, I'm
> > > so sorry.
>
> > > I need to throw up.
>
> > -----------
> > I just also posted that I needed to throw up and that there was nothing more
> > to say. Actually, there is something more thing to say: For anyone who was
> > previously defending the law that allows juveniles to get off with a warning
> > and emerge with a clean record.....The fact that these animals who killed
> > Jack and the other cats also shot at *people,* including an18-month-old
> > toddler says it all. I hope these *youths* are prosecuted to the full extent
> > of the law, and they are put away for a long, long time, but the unfortunate
> > fact is that I am convinced that people such as these will remain a danger
> > to society for the rest of their lives, no matter how they are punished.
> > Psychopaths always start out hurting and killing animals. There is something
> > totally terrifying about someone who is so devoid of emotion, sympathy,
> > morals etc that he can cold-bloodedly kill a dozen cats and shoot an air
> > rifle at a toddler, who also could have been killed. And the fact that it
> > wasn't just one *youth* but several *youths* acting together is also
> > terrifying. In the USA, if they had killed a person, the charge would have
> > been first-degree murder, and in the USA, a juvenile who commits murder is
> > prosecuted as an adult.
>
> > Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who
> > managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and
> > gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own
> > blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's
> > belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail
> > every year...I think that's terrifying.
> > Best regards,
> > ---Cindy S.
> > Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who
> > managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and
> > gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own
> > blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's
> > belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail
> > every year...I think that's terrifying.
>
> OMG, Really..?
>
> That is dreadful. It is beyond my comprehension as to why we as tax
> payers should have to pay to keep cretins like this alive. The
> disgusting thought of killing an unborn child is worse than any other
> crime that I can think of. Horrific in fact...Bring back Hanging, or
> if we are too yellow bellied for that in the UK, the lethal injection
> will do just fine....
>
> When Ringo was shot, I felt anger that I didn't know was within
> me..But that is nothing compared to what I feel today. as Bookie said,
> I was hoping against hope that he was in some one's garden shed, or
> even stolen.. But to be there when the police arrived to impart the
> news that they thought they had found Jack & that they needed someone
> to identify him then to take in the fact that they were aiming a
> weapon @ an 18 month old child, pushed me past anger & sent me into a
> rage I have ***never***experienced before....
>
> Shooting @ a child HAS to be taken seriously. It **IS** ATTEMPED
> MURDER. I really can't tale it all in right now. It feels like I am
> hovering above myself watching it all unfold. I think the ultimate
> question has to be **WHY** did they do it???
> I would imagine that I feel the same way @ this very moment as you all
> must have felt when you all heard about this Cho geyser. They are
> beyond feeling is my only thought....
>
> Right now, they really do disgust me. I am in constant touch with
> Mummy ( Michelle) & will keep you all up to date with this as it
> unfolds. I will push her every inch of the way, & be there for her
> when she needs me too. this will not go unpunished, I assure you of
> that.. Our poor darling cat Jack. We will stand up and be counted for
> this crime..
> S.

Wow I guess this is a serious problem!:

http://www.gun-control-network.org/A004.htm

excerpt:

2. CAMPAIGNS - AIRGUNS

There has been a large rise in the number of airguns used in crime
over the past ten years. The figure for 1990 was 5,380 weapons
whereas by 1999/00 it had risen to 10,103.

GCN's submission to the Home Affairs Committee (HAC) highlighted the
extent of the damage that airguns can cause to people, animals and
property by preparing a list of incidents derived from two sources,
reports from a national newspaper during the last five years and
information given by MPs during debates and committee sessions (see
list below).

Lethality & registration:

GCN was disappointed at the Government's response to the HAC report.
Although all airguns are not going to be licensed, we hope that the
definition of a 'lethal weapon' will be such as to require the
certification of a large number of airguns that are not currently
within the licensing system.

Airgun incidents - examples from the press & MPs:

Daily Telegraph

7 August 1998 Airgun boy cleared of intent over a shot girl. A 16
year old teenager shot a 12 year old girl, Jasmine Proverbs, in the
head while showing off a new 195 rifle fitted with telescopic sights
and silencer. A bit of the pellet is still lodged in her brain. He
had also shot Jasmine's brother in the leg the previous day.

11 November 1998 Air rifle attack on pupils. Four children and a
dinner lady were hit by pellets fired from an air rifle at a
playground of a Primary School. A 16 year old was arrested.

16 January 1999 Teenager shot in 'war game'. Richard Bryant, 13, was
critically injured when a pellet fired from an airgun lodged in is
skull. Four boys aged 11 to 14 were involved. A 14 year old was
arrested.

13 July 1999 George Atkinson, 13, was fatally wounded after being hit
by an airgun pellet in the garden of his aunt's house.

Derby Evening Telegraph

28 August 2001 Cygnets shot in the head. Two young swans have been
left with serious head injuries after being shot.... An RSPCA Inspector
said 'Two people appear to have gone and deliberately used these swans
as target practice with no regard to the suffering they must have gone
through.'

Ripley & Heanor News

20 September 2001 Teenager is shot in airgun incident. 15 year old
Darren Harrison underwent emergency surgery on his stomach after being
shot while walking along a public footpath. Surgeons were unable to
remove the airgun pellet which wounded him. The police found evidence
of target practice taking place on the path which runs between a wood
and open fields.

The Middlesbrough Gazette

May 2001 Child killed. A Teeside child was killed on 3rd May 2001 by
another child using its father's air rifle, prosecution pending.

Examples given by MPs

Mr Doug Henderson (Newcastle upon Tyne N). Standing Committee E. 21st
November 1996. A 65 year old Aberdeenshire man died instantly after a
pellet fired by a 17 year old taking pot-shots with his new airgun hit
him after he stepped into the line of fire.

Mr Gordon Prentice (Pendle) Standing Committee E. 21st November 1996.
Residents on Leigh's biggest housing estate have had enough of teenage
troublemakers who use waste bins for airgun practice even though young
children are playing there.

Dr Nick Palmer MP (Broxtowe) 21st January 1998. Reported that the Cat
Protection League has estimated that every year 10,000 cats are killed
or maimed.

Jeff Ennis (Barnsley, East and Mexborough). Air Guns (Safety) 23rd
June 1999. Adam Yoxall, aged 10, was hit in the eye by an airgun
pellet while playing in a local wood. He lost the sight in is left
eye

A 12 year old boy was left in agony after being shot in the back by a
sniper

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/95/9508.htm

Lynne
April 23rd 07, 04:03 AM
on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 00:01:57 GMT, sheelagh
> wrote:

> Right now, they really do disgust me. I am in constant touch with
> Mummy ( Michelle) & will keep you all up to date with this as it
> unfolds. I will push her every inch of the way, & be there for her
> when she needs me too. this will not go unpunished, I assure you of
> that.. Our poor darling cat Jack

Sheelagh, please let Michelle know that another cat lover on the other
side of the Atlantic is sending healing thoughts her way, and also to her
children. I'm sending them to you, too, of course, my dear.

I can't even begin to put myself in her place or in your place--I don't
want to! This is just too awful. I just don't know what to say, though,
because it makes me physically ill.

--
Lynne, holding my kitties extra close tonight


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

bookie
April 23rd 07, 02:06 PM
On 23 Apr, 01:47, "mariib via CatKB.com" <[email protected]> wrote:
> cindys wrote:
> >> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh >
> >> wrote:
> >[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> >> I need to throw up.
> >-----------
> >I just also posted that I needed to throw up and that there was nothing more
> >to say. Actually, there is something more thing to say: For anyone who was
> >previously defending the law that allows juveniles to get off with a warning
> >and emerge with a clean record.....The fact that these animals who killed
> >Jack and the other cats also shot at *people,* including an18-month-old
> >toddler says it all. I hope these *youths* are prosecuted to the full extent
> >of the law, and they are put away for a long, long time, but the unfortunate
> >fact is that I am convinced that people such as these will remain a danger
> >to society for the rest of their lives, no matter how they are punished.
> >Psychopaths always start out hurting and killing animals. There is something
> >totally terrifying about someone who is so devoid of emotion, sympathy,
> >morals etc that he can cold-bloodedly kill a dozen cats and shoot an air
> >rifle at a toddler, who also could have been killed. And the fact that it
> >wasn't just one *youth* but several *youths* acting together is also
> >terrifying. In the USA, if they had killed a person, the charge would have
> >been first-degree murder, and in the USA, a juvenile who commits murder is
> >prosecuted as an adult.
>
> >Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who
> >managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and
> >gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own
> >blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's
> >belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail
> >every year...I think that's terrifying.
> >Best regards,
> >---Cindy S.
>
> Sheelagh, all my sympathy to your friend & you for this terrible act. I don't
> know how juveniles are treated in England, & cindys says in the US, a
> juvenile is treated as an adult. Good thing this didn't happen in Canada,
> because here juveniles who commit any offence (as well as all adult criminals)
> are coddled & barely punished - if indeed they're ever brought to trial in
> time - lawyers delay & delay & delay & then the charges are thrown out & the
> criminals go free. And of course, we must not abuse their rights, because
> there must be something awful in their background that caused them to do this
> i.e. it's always society's fault - no one wants to take responsibility for
> what they've done, just pass the blame. Canadian justice concentrates on the
> rights of the criminals, not on the rights of the victims & their families.
> And if the police are lucky enough to press charges & actually get a
> conviction, the criminals are usually out of jail after serving less than 1/3
> of the sentence - & sentences here are *much* more lenient than in the US.
> Sorry for the rant!
> M.
>
> --
> Message posted viahttp://www.catkb.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

that so ****es me off when the authorities care more about the
criminal's rights than the victims, as far as i am concerned the
criminals have no rights, they forfeited their rights when they
inflicted pain and suffering on another living creatrures or took away
it's life.

And then all this crap about 'its society's fault', what a load of
crap, some of these nasty kids come from perfectly good homes (I know
this from the kids I have taught, you expect their parents to be
nightmares but you meet them and you are sometimes shiocked at how
normal and pleasant they are, but they are **** parents who don;t
discipline their cretinuous offspring and that is a major part of the
problem). The problem is that these kids are never disciplined for
wrongdoing by their weak parents who ar usually too scared of being
dragged off by social services on charges a of child abuse for hitting
their kids when it s badly needed for the kids own good. Instead the
kids are usually praised all the time and given present and toys and
the like to keep them quiet and happy in the hope that it will keep
them out of trouble (fat chance), in a way trying to 'buy' their good
behaviour. well it does not work does it? kids are not taught right
form wrongn in that way and they need to knwo what is wrong and that
certain behaviour is utterly wrong and that they will be punished
severl;y when they behave like that.

unfortunately, as I ahve said before, a lot of kids are too slow
intheir emotional development to grasp the concept that they are
inflicting pain and suffering on others (humans or animals) and they
instead just focus ontheir own instant pleasure and gratification.
this is where the concept of' reasoning with them' breaks down becuase
to reason with these kids and get them to realise the awfulness of
what they have done requires them to be of a certain level of
intelligence and emotional maturity inoder to undertsand that thy have
made another creature feel pain just as they do when they are hurt, to
be able to feel sympathy with another creature in pain, to do this
takes a lot of psychological development which I feel a lot of young
kids (particualrly boys due to differences in brain development rates)
do not have. The only way to stop this rise in violent episodes such
as these shootings is to coem down hard on these kids with a hefty
punishment, preferably a physical one, and the parenst should be
dishing this out from an early age.

It is the concept of conditioning which I ahve mentuioned before; if
little jonny goes and kicks a cat he gets a kicing himself, he is told
that if he wants to avoid getting a kicking or a smack himself then he
must not kick the cat, very simple. Little jonny no longer kicks the
cat because he knows that if he does he will be made to feel a bit of
physical pain and a lot of humiliation when he smacked across the bum
by his mum in front of everyone, simple system but HIGHLY effective,
the child avoid carrying out undesriable behaviours in order to avoid
a punishment (works with rats anyway!).

I apologise for any bad typing inthe above but this whole thing, the
shootings, the leniancy of courts and police etc, makes me
sooooooooooo angry, I am glad that my 2 cats are far too lazy to go
far from the back garden and that our garden is surrounded by others.

please give michelle my deepest sympathies, and myself, jessie and
terri are all rooting for the perpetrators of this evil deed to be
thoroughly punished
bookie

Lis
April 23rd 07, 02:12 PM
On Apr 22, 6:37 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
> On 22 Apr, 21:36, Lynne > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:21:24 GMT, chatnoir >
> > wrote:
>
> > > That is a tragedy! People who find friendly cats will take them for
> > > themselves! I suspect that they could not raise one themselve! Dogs
> > > are a big problem!
>
> > Since there were *12* cats missing, I seriously doubt they were stolen to
> > be pets...
>
> > Sheelagh, my heart goes out to you and her family. It sounds like
> > perhaps people in England need to reconsider letting their cats
> > outside...
>
> > My neighbors 'found' a kitten about 6 months ago. He was clearly
> > someone's pet, but had no collar. They brought him over here because he
> > looks a lot like Levi and is also about the same age. They decided to
> > keep him, even though I strongly suggested they have him scanned for a
> > chip (I even offered to take him). They declined and kept him inside and
> > didn't try to find his owners. I was annoyed, because I figure he was
> > someone's much loved pet, but on the other hand, whoever had him didn't
> > keep an eye on him so I figure they couldn't have been the greatest
> > owners. The neighbors who kept him said they were keeping him indoors,
> > and naturally I was happy to hear that. We live on a residential street,
> > but it's a cut-through street and people speed like crazy. There are
> > also tons of loose dogs around here.
>
> > Yesterday I saw their kitten playing in the front yard. *RAGE*
>
> > Sorry to go off track, but the bottom line is that cats are at risk out
> > doors, no matter where you live. And it sucks, but it's a reality that
> > needs to be accepted.
>
> > --
> > Lynne
>
> > "We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
> > We are brave enough to bend to cry
> > And sad enough to know
> > We must laugh again"
>
> > ~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech
>
> Thanks to all of you. I have passed on your messages of sympathy to
> her.
> Actually, I have only just walked in. I am afraid we have found out
> what happened to him & the story only gets worse...
>
> I was sitting here twiddling my thumb's so I figured I would go & see
> her (Michelle).
> Upon my arrival the police arrived too. Michelle's partner, Ivan was
> out in the garden some 40 minutes earlier, when he heard a Ping,
> closely followed by another, so close to him that he felt the air
> whistle past him. He knew immediately what it was..an Air Rifle!!
>
> He ran straight indoors and rang the police, because at the time, his
> son was in the garden with him. How dangerous could the situation have
> been. I was there when the police came in to take a statement & it
> turns out that 6 of the cat's owners live in a very close proximity to
> them. The information/statement was enough to warrant them going to
> the house where Ivan thought the pellets came from to investigate the
> facts and establish as much as they could under the circumstances.
> (Given that two people were shot at, one of which was an 18 month old
> little boy..mind numbing isn't it?)
>
> They were not invited in to the property & no statement was offered so
> they had to go back to the station to obtain a warrant to search the
> premises, which happens to be right next to a building site. They got
> their warrant went back to the house 30 Min's later with permission
> to search the property & the power to arrest anyone that they thought
> might have information to offer. ....
>
> It didn't take very long to establish the facts. One of the youths
> that lived there was found on the building site to the side of the
> house, directly behind Michelle's house with a spade trying to bury 3
> cats, one of which was baby Jack. Ivan went to identify poor little
> Jack & 3 youths have been arrested & are presently being interviewed
> by the police.....

This is too disgusting for words. I don't know what to say.

> To say that we are all devastated is a massive understatement. It
> seems almost impossible to conceive or believe that this has happened
> so soon after Ringo was shot just a few short miles down the road. I
> am filled with a rage that is even worse than I felt when that
> happened. I have no idea why it feels worse, but it does:o(
> I am feeling outraged, angry flooded with sorrow & utter sympathy for
> Michelle who I *know* loved him dearly. She was always sending me
> photos of him via mobile phone & I was receiving messages on a weekly
> basis for the whole of the last year to let me know what he was up to
> & how he was doing too. She is *Gutted*...
>
> I am simply too angry to even go near the place right now. I need to
> calm down first. I feel for Michelle though because she has to live
> there in the knowledge that this was done by someone that she used to
> call a neighbor..some neighbor!!
>
> I have no idea what will happen in this case because it was a
> different weapon, a child was shot at & the police caught them trying
> to conceal/dispose several cats @ the same time. I will keep you all
> informed though, rest assured on that one!!

A child being shot at should boost this into a whole different
category. Can minors be tried as adults in the UK?

> RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07
>
> Here are a few photos of Jack the week he left us and went to live
> with his new mummy @ 12 weeks old...He will be greatly missed by us
> all
>
> http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/Jack

He was a beautiful kitty!

> I will keep you all informed as to how this one progresses of
> course.Right now for me jail would be too good for them. I am
> SEETHING...
> We do need to reconsider our security Lynne. It is is sad...

Yes, please do keep us informed.

Lis

EJ
April 23rd 07, 02:12 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On 22 Apr, 21:36, Lynne > wrote:
>> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:21:24 GMT, chatnoir >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > That is a tragedy! People who find friendly cats will take them for
>> > themselves! I suspect that they could not raise one themselve! Dogs
>> > are a big problem!
>>
>> Since there were *12* cats missing, I seriously doubt they were stolen to
>> be pets...
>>
>> Sheelagh, my heart goes out to you and her family. It sounds like
>> perhaps people in England need to reconsider letting their cats
>> outside...
>>
>> My neighbors 'found' a kitten about 6 months ago. He was clearly
>> someone's pet, but had no collar. They brought him over here because he
>> looks a lot like Levi and is also about the same age. They decided to
>> keep him, even though I strongly suggested they have him scanned for a
>> chip (I even offered to take him). They declined and kept him inside and
>> didn't try to find his owners. I was annoyed, because I figure he was
>> someone's much loved pet, but on the other hand, whoever had him didn't
>> keep an eye on him so I figure they couldn't have been the greatest
>> owners. The neighbors who kept him said they were keeping him indoors,
>> and naturally I was happy to hear that. We live on a residential street,
>> but it's a cut-through street and people speed like crazy. There are
>> also tons of loose dogs around here.
>>
>> Yesterday I saw their kitten playing in the front yard. *RAGE*
>>
>> Sorry to go off track, but the bottom line is that cats are at risk out
>> doors, no matter where you live. And it sucks, but it's a reality that
>> needs to be accepted.
>>
>> --
>> Lynne
>>
>> "We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
>> We are brave enough to bend to cry
>> And sad enough to know
>> We must laugh again"
>>
>> ~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech
>
> Thanks to all of you. I have passed on your messages of sympathy to
> her.
> Actually, I have only just walked in. I am afraid we have found out
> what happened to him & the story only gets worse...
>
> I was sitting here twiddling my thumb's so I figured I would go & see
> her (Michelle).
> Upon my arrival the police arrived too. Michelle's partner, Ivan was
> out in the garden some 40 minutes earlier, when he heard a Ping,
> closely followed by another, so close to him that he felt the air
> whistle past him. He knew immediately what it was..an Air Rifle!!
>
> He ran straight indoors and rang the police, because at the time, his
> son was in the garden with him. How dangerous could the situation have
> been. I was there when the police came in to take a statement & it
> turns out that 6 of the cat's owners live in a very close proximity to
> them. The information/statement was enough to warrant them going to
> the house where Ivan thought the pellets came from to investigate the
> facts and establish as much as they could under the circumstances.
> (Given that two people were shot at, one of which was an 18 month old
> little boy..mind numbing isn't it?)
>
> They were not invited in to the property & no statement was offered so
> they had to go back to the station to obtain a warrant to search the
> premises, which happens to be right next to a building site. They got
> their warrant went back to the house 30 Min's later with permission
> to search the property & the power to arrest anyone that they thought
> might have information to offer. ....
>
> It didn't take very long to establish the facts. One of the youths
> that lived there was found on the building site to the side of the
> house, directly behind Michelle's house with a spade trying to bury 3
> cats, one of which was baby Jack. Ivan went to identify poor little
> Jack & 3 youths have been arrested & are presently being interviewed
> by the police.....
>
> To say that we are all devastated is a massive understatement. It
> seems almost impossible to conceive or believe that this has happened
> so soon after Ringo was shot just a few short miles down the road. I
> am filled with a rage that is even worse than I felt when that
> happened. I have no idea why it feels worse, but it does:o(
> I am feeling outraged, angry flooded with sorrow & utter sympathy for
> Michelle who I *know* loved him dearly. She was always sending me
> photos of him via mobile phone & I was receiving messages on a weekly
> basis for the whole of the last year to let me know what he was up to
> & how he was doing too. She is *Gutted*...
>
> I am simply too angry to even go near the place right now. I need to
> calm down first. I feel for Michelle though because she has to live
> there in the knowledge that this was done by someone that she used to
> call a neighbor..some neighbor!!
>
> I have no idea what will happen in this case because it was a
> different weapon, a child was shot at & the police caught them trying
> to conceal/dispose several cats @ the same time. I will keep you all
> informed though, rest assured on that one!!
>
> RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07
>
> Here are a few photos of Jack the week he left us and went to live
> with his new mummy @ 12 weeks old...He will be greatly missed by us
> all
>
> http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/Jack
>
> I will keep you all informed as to how this one progresses of
> course.Right now for me jail would be too good for them. I am
> SEETHING...
> We do need to reconsider our security Lynne. It is is sad...
>
> Sheelagh

I feel so terrible for what has happened, he was such a gorgeous, innocent
looking cat. How any person wouldn't just feel warmth and love for such a
fragile creature, I will never understand. It just proves to me how I wish
our entire species would die from a painful global killer virus. We do not
deserve to exist.

CatNipped
April 23rd 07, 03:15 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
oups.com...

> RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07

Believe me, I'm not picking on your Sheelagh - but this is the **** that
makes me crazy. If people are just bound and determined to let their cats
run loose (claiming they're safe doing so because of which part of the world
they live in), then please, *PLEASE* don't come back and write about such
horrible deaths. Can you understand how frustrated and enraged that makes
some of us feel????!

Hugs,

CatNipped

cindys
April 23rd 07, 04:00 PM
"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>> RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07
>
> Believe me, I'm not picking on your Sheelagh - but this is the **** that
> makes me crazy. If people are just bound and determined to let their cats
> run loose
--------
In the case of Jack, my impression was that he was just sitting on the patio
wall. He may not have been running loose. I was actually wondering if he
(and the other cats) hadn't been snatched. You sometimes hear stories about
dogs who are chained or tied in their own yards and someone comes along and
unties them and takes them.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Lynne
April 23rd 07, 04:12 PM
on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:15:53 GMT, "CatNipped" >
wrote:

> Believe me, I'm not picking on your Sheelagh - but this is the ****
> that makes me crazy. If people are just bound and determined to let
> their cats run loose (claiming they're safe doing so because of which
> part of the world they live in), then please, *PLEASE* don't come back
> and write about such horrible deaths. Can you understand how
> frustrated and enraged that makes some of us feel????!

The UK has a different culture and has historically been very safe for
outdoor cats. We've discussed the reasons why ad nauseum here and they are
valid. Obviously things have changed where Sheelagh lives and she is
already taking measures to adapt to those changes. That has also been
discussed here.

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

CatNipped
April 23rd 07, 04:13 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> That is dreadful. It is beyond my comprehension as to why we as tax
> payers should have to pay to keep cretins like this alive. The
> disgusting thought of killing an unborn child is worse than any other
> crime that I can think of. Horrific in fact...Bring back Hanging, or
> if we are too yellow bellied for that in the UK, the lethal injection
> will do just fine....

Hanging, hell! Bring back drawing and quartering for these sociopaths!

Hugs,

CatNipped

CatNipped
April 23rd 07, 04:20 PM
"cindys" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>
>>> RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07
>>
>> Believe me, I'm not picking on your Sheelagh - but this is the **** that
>> makes me crazy. If people are just bound and determined to let their
>> cats run loose
> --------
> In the case of Jack, my impression was that he was just sitting on the
> patio wall. He may not have been running loose. I was actually wondering
> if he (and the other cats) hadn't been snatched. You sometimes hear
> stories about dogs who are chained or tied in their own yards and someone
> comes along and unties them and takes them.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.

Oh, I thought Sheelagh said he got shot in a field close to his home.

Anyway, I know that people whose cats are hit by a car, murdered, or mauled
by dogs are just as heartbroken as someone who loses and indoor cat to
disease or old age - so I don't mean to add to that hurt (and I *REALLY*
don't want to start up the indoor-outdoor debate again). It just really
makes me sick to my stomach to imagine any sentient creature dying
violently.

Hugs,

CatNipped

Matthew
April 23rd 07, 04:22 PM
"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> That is dreadful. It is beyond my comprehension as to why we as tax
>> payers should have to pay to keep cretins like this alive. The
>> disgusting thought of killing an unborn child is worse than any other
>> crime that I can think of. Horrific in fact...Bring back Hanging, or
>> if we are too yellow bellied for that in the UK, the lethal injection
>> will do just fine....
>
> Hanging, hell! Bring back drawing and quartering for these sociopaths!
>
> Hugs,
>
> CatNipped


I am more in the mood for burning at the stake or cat o' nine tails maybe a
little country justice leather strap + rubbing alcohol and salt than comes
the branding iron

When we are all done castrations like we do with horse or bulls

CatNipped
April 23rd 07, 04:24 PM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:15:53 GMT, "CatNipped" >
> wrote:
>
>> Believe me, I'm not picking on your Sheelagh - but this is the ****
>> that makes me crazy. If people are just bound and determined to let
>> their cats run loose (claiming they're safe doing so because of which
>> part of the world they live in), then please, *PLEASE* don't come back
>> and write about such horrible deaths. Can you understand how
>> frustrated and enraged that makes some of us feel????!
>
> The UK has a different culture and has historically been very safe for
> outdoor cats. We've discussed the reasons why ad nauseum here and they
> are
> valid. Obviously things have changed where Sheelagh lives and she is
> already taking measures to adapt to those changes. That has also been
> discussed here.

I will never be convinced that anywhere that humans live is safe for a
roaming cat. However I do know that the indoor-outdoor debate has been done
to death here (I should know, I was part of one of the biggest flamewars
about that here a couple of years ago), so we'll just have to agree to
disagree.

Hugs,

CatNipped

> --
> Lynne
>
>
> "We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
> We are brave enough to bend to cry
> And sad enough to know
> We must laugh again"
>
> ~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

cindys
April 23rd 07, 04:39 PM
"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> "cindys" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>>> oups.com...
>>>
>>>> RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07
>>>
>>> Believe me, I'm not picking on your Sheelagh - but this is the **** that
>>> makes me crazy. If people are just bound and determined to let their
>>> cats run loose
>> --------
>> In the case of Jack, my impression was that he was just sitting on the
>> patio wall. He may not have been running loose. I was actually wondering
>> if he (and the other cats) hadn't been snatched. You sometimes hear
>> stories about dogs who are chained or tied in their own yards and someone
>> comes along and unties them and takes them.
>> Best regards,
>> ---Cindy S.
>
> Oh, I thought Sheelagh said he got shot in a field close to his home.
-------
Yes, she did say that, but the question was how did he get to that field
when he typically never left the patio wall? (at least that was what I
gleaned). Someone could have snatched him off the patio wall, taken him to
the field and shot him. I don't think Sheelagh said for sure what happened
because she didn't know. Nor did Jack's mom know. She said she turned her
back for a second, and Jack suddenly disappeared.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

>
> Anyway, I know that people whose cats are hit by a car, murdered, or
> mauled by dogs are just as heartbroken as someone who loses and indoor cat
> to disease or old age - so I don't mean to add to that hurt (and I
> *REALLY* don't want to start up the indoor-outdoor debate again). It just
> really makes me sick to my stomach to imagine any sentient creature dying
> violently.
>
> Hugs,
>
> CatNipped
>

CatNipped
April 23rd 07, 05:37 PM
"cindys" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "cindys" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>>>> oups.com...
>>>>
>>>>> RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07
>>>>
>>>> Believe me, I'm not picking on your Sheelagh - but this is the ****
>>>> that makes me crazy. If people are just bound and determined to let
>>>> their cats run loose
>>> --------
>>> In the case of Jack, my impression was that he was just sitting on the
>>> patio wall. He may not have been running loose. I was actually wondering
>>> if he (and the other cats) hadn't been snatched. You sometimes hear
>>> stories about dogs who are chained or tied in their own yards and
>>> someone comes along and unties them and takes them.
>>> Best regards,
>>> ---Cindy S.
>>
>> Oh, I thought Sheelagh said he got shot in a field close to his home.
> -------
> Yes, she did say that, but the question was how did he get to that field
> when he typically never left the patio wall? (at least that was what I
> gleaned). Someone could have snatched him off the patio wall, taken him to
> the field and shot him. I don't think Sheelagh said for sure what happened
> because she didn't know. Nor did Jack's mom know. She said she turned her
> back for a second, and Jack suddenly disappeared.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.

I can only imagine how devastated she must be. Jessie is the only one of
ours that ever tries to get out (the others are so afraid of the "OUT" that
they don't even go near an open door). And Jessie is only out for as long
as it take us to chase her down. I am always horrified when she does slip
past us - I can't imagine how awful it would feel to have a cat just
disappear. Knowing their fate, however horrifying it may be, *HAS* to be
better than never knowing and imagining all sorts of horrors happening to my
babies (or even imagining them lost and alone wondering why their Mommy
doesn't come rescue them).

Anyway, it's a sad situation and my sympathies go out to all involved.

Hugs,

CatNipped

>>
>> Anyway, I know that people whose cats are hit by a car, murdered, or
>> mauled by dogs are just as heartbroken as someone who loses and indoor
>> cat to disease or old age - so I don't mean to add to that hurt (and I
>> *REALLY* don't want to start up the indoor-outdoor debate again). It
>> just really makes me sick to my stomach to imagine any sentient creature
>> dying violently.
>>
>> Hugs,
>>
>> CatNipped
>>
>
>

sheelagh
April 23rd 07, 09:27 PM
On 23 Apr, 16:39, "cindys" > wrote:
> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > "cindys" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
> >>>> RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07
>
> >>> Believe me, I'm not picking on your Sheelagh - but this is the **** that
> >>> makes me crazy. If people are just bound and determined to let their
> >>> cats run loose
> >> --------
> >> In the case of Jack, my impression was that he was just sitting on the
> >> patio wall. He may not have been running loose. I was actually wondering
> >> if he (and the other cats) hadn't been snatched. You sometimes hear
> >> stories about dogs who are chained or tied in their own yards and someone
> >> comes along and unties them and takes them.
> >> Best regards,
> >> ---Cindy S.
>
> > Oh, I thought Sheelagh said he got shot in a field close to his home.
>
> -------
> Yes, she did say that, but the question was how did he get to that field
> when he typically never left the patio wall? (at least that was what I
> gleaned). Someone could have snatched him off the patio wall, taken him to
> the field and shot him. I don't think Sheelagh said for sure what happened
> because she didn't know. Nor did Jack's mom know. She said she turned her
> back for a second, and Jack suddenly disappeared.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Anyway, I know that people whose cats are hit by a car, murdered, or
> > mauled by dogs are just as heartbroken as someone who loses and indoor cat
> > to disease or old age - so I don't mean to add to that hurt (and I
> > *REALLY* don't want to start up the indoor-outdoor debate again). It just
> > really makes me sick to my stomach to imagine any sentient creature dying
> > violently.
>
> > Hugs,
>
> > CatNipped- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

So sorry for leaving this thread hanging. I have spent the day with
Michelle trying to help her go through the motions with the police,
the offender & dealing with poor little Jacks death too.

> Yes, she did say that, but the question was how did he get to that field
> when he typically never left the patio wall? (at least that was what I
> gleaned). Someone could have snatched him off the patio wall, taken him to
> the field and shot him. I don't think Sheelagh said for sure what happened
> because she didn't know. Nor did Jack's mom know. She said she turned her
> back for a second, and Jack suddenly disappeared.

> > Oh, I thought Sheelagh said he got shot in a field close to his home.

I just wanted to clarify that I think we are cross threading here. I
have a feeling that you might be confusing both cats that were shot?

Ringo, IS our Big ginger boy who was the one that was found shot &
seriously injured cat in the field. The field is directly behind our
house & has no bearing on Jacks death at all. we live in separate
villages 7 miles away from each other...

And Jack, was found on a building site, right behind Michelle's home,
where the guy who shot him, was trying to conceal his body in a hole
that he was digging when the police arrived....

> Anyway, I know that people whose cats are hit by a car, murdered,
or
> > mauled by dogs are just as heartbroken as someone who loses and indoor cat
> > to disease or old age - so I don't mean to add to that hurt (and I
> > *REALLY* don't want to start up the indoor-outdoor debate again). It just
> > really makes me sick to my stomach to imagine any sentient creature dying
> > violently.

I know this Catnipped. I don't take it personally, because I have had
to reconsider our personal safety & security recently. you are
preaching to the converted here. I **never** want to have to go
through this again, ever...


The only time that Jack was allowed out, was when they were home. He
**Never** wondered off, which is why they were so concerned when he
didn't come in @ supper-time...
Their house & gardens are all fenced in & he was only on the front
wall saying good bye to Ricky ( her son). Michelle brought him back
into their garden straight after this, & they are totally cat proof in
their garden. I am going to add a link to show you what their garden
is surrounded by proper cat fencing.. which & also what I am
considering doing in our garden to ensure that all of our cats have a
little outside life, rather than keeping them indoors 24/7.
I am going to add a link here so that you can appreciate/understand
what I propose doing to our garden. I would like to hear what others
of you think about the idea before I shell out 100's of pounds on
something that might, or **might not work**? Thanks in advance for
this one!

http://www.purrfectfence.com/?gclid=CJTyl8nS2YsCFSOZEAodHH_UXA

I feel that this would be more appropriate, than allowing a select few
of the cats to have more freedom than the others do... However, after
this incident, I wonder if this would be enough to ensure their
safety? I *know* that it would be enough right now, but in time,
neighbors might move, & I have no idea who might move in instead of
them.?#!???

I really wish I could explain how abnormal it is to keep your cat
confined indoors over here. Nevertheless, I am no longer willing to
take the chance of allowing mine out of our garden, but I need to be
reassured that this fencing works before installing it.

The story gets worse the more I hear;o(

I mistakenly told you that there were youths involved in the Air Rifle
shooting...

I wish to rectify my mistake by informing you that there were no
youths involved!! I got the story wrong...

In fact, it was a 35 year old man who has been leaning out of his
bedroom window for a couple of weeks( according to their neighbors who
had already warned the police of his activities...?!!!), shooting
anything that moves. Cats, people, birds, cars...Anything.

Michelle, Jacks mummy went to the news agents this morning to remove
her advert offering a reward to anyone who could lead them to their
missing cat, & the lady behind her had an advert with more or less the
same wording. Poor Michelle had to ask her where she lived.. which
turned out to be a street or so away behind her..then had to relate
the story about the discovery of Jacks body on the building site which
was adjacent to their home too.

They swapped numbers, & this afternoon the same woman rang Michelle to
tell her that their cat was one of the bodies that he was caught
trying to conceal. I have no need to tell you that she was destroyed
upon hearing the news as Michelle was.

I know that many people would stare blankly @ you if you told them
this, but they are obviously not cat slaves.. if they were, there
would be no blank look.. there would be empathy for the crimes of a
mass murderer... because that is what this is....

Telling you all about this thread is like re living through my Ringo's
nightmare all over again. The sense of deja vous is more than
sickening. Everything feels the same & sounds the same, except we were
lucky & we still have old Ringo, & Michelle has lost her beloved
friend. All of it is simply Sickening..
I know that you all understand what I mean.

I don't seek sympathy for either myself, or her either. Merely
constructive idea's as to how we might improve cats security without
making them completely indoor cats,
IF THAT IS POSSIBLE?
Sheelagh

sheelagh
April 23rd 07, 09:41 PM
On 23 Apr, 16:39, "cindys" > wrote:
> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > "cindys" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
> >>>> RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07
>
> >>> Believe me, I'm not picking on your Sheelagh - but this is the **** that
> >>> makes me crazy. If people are just bound and determined to let their
> >>> cats run loose
> >> --------
> >> In the case of Jack, my impression was that he was just sitting on the
> >> patio wall. He may not have been running loose. I was actually wondering
> >> if he (and the other cats) hadn't been snatched. You sometimes hear
> >> stories about dogs who are chained or tied in their own yards and someone
> >> comes along and unties them and takes them.
> >> Best regards,
> >> ---Cindy S.
>
> > Oh, I thought Sheelagh said he got shot in a field close to his home.
>
> -------
> Yes, she did say that, but the question was how did he get to that field
> when he typically never left the patio wall? (at least that was what I
> gleaned). Someone could have snatched him off the patio wall, taken him to
> the field and shot him. I don't think Sheelagh said for sure what happened
> because she didn't know. Nor did Jack's mom know. She said she turned her
> back for a second, and Jack suddenly disappeared.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Anyway, I know that people whose cats are hit by a car, murdered, or
> > mauled by dogs are just as heartbroken as someone who loses and indoor cat
> > to disease or old age - so I don't mean to add to that hurt (and I
> > *REALLY* don't want to start up the indoor-outdoor debate again). It just
> > really makes me sick to my stomach to imagine any sentient creature dying
> > violently.
>
> > Hugs,
>
> > CatNipped- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

So sorry for leaving this thread hanging. I have spent the day with
Michelle trying to help her go through the motions with the police,
the offender & dealing with poor little Jacks death too....

> Yes, she did say that, but the question was how did he get to that field
> when he typically never left the patio wall? (at least that was what I
> gleaned). Someone could have snatched him off the patio wall, taken him to
> the field and shot him. I don't think Sheelagh said for sure what happened
> because she didn't know. Nor did Jack's mom know. She said she turned her
> back for a second, and Jack suddenly disappeared.

> > Oh, I thought Sheelagh said he got shot in a field close to his home.
I just wanted to clarify that I think we are cross threading here. I
have a feeling that you might be confusing both cats that were shot?

Ringo, IS our Big ginger boy who was the one that was found shot &
seriously injured cat in the field. The field is directly behind our
house & has no bearing on Jacks death at all. we live in separate
villages 7 miles away from each other...

And Jack, was found on a building site, right behind Michelle's home,
where the guy who shot him, was trying to conceal his body in a hole
that he was digging when the police arrived....

> Anyway, I know that people whose cats are hit by a car, murdered,
or
> > mauled by dogs are just as heartbroken as someone who loses and indoor cat
> > to disease or old age - so I don't mean to add to that hurt (and I
> > *REALLY* don't want to start up the indoor-outdoor debate again). It just
> > really makes me sick to my stomach to imagine any sentient creature dying
> > violently.

I know this Catnipped. I don't take it personally, because I have had
to reconsider our cat's personal safety & security recently. You are
preaching to the converted here. I **never** want to have to go
through this again, ever...

The only time that Jack was allowed out, was when they were home. He
**Never** wondered off, which is why they were so concerned when he
didn't come in @ supper-time...

Their house & gardens are all fenced in & he was only on the front
wall saying good bye to Ricky ( her son). Michelle brought him back
into their garden straight after this, & they are totally cat proof in
their garden. I am going to add a link to show you what their garden
is surrounded by proper cat fencing.. which & also what I am
considering doing in our garden to ensure that all of our cats have a
little outside life, rather than keeping them indoors 24/7....

I am going to add a link here so that you can appreciate/understand
what I propose doing to our garden. I would like to hear what others
of you think about the idea before I shell out 100's of pounds on
something that might, or **might not work**? Thanks in advance for
this one!

http://www.purrfectfence.com/?gclid=CJTyl8nS2YsCFSOZEAodHH_UXA

I feel that this would be more appropriate, than allowing a select few
of the cats to have more freedom than the others do... However, after
this incident, I wonder if this would be enough to ensure their
safety? I *know* that it would be enough right now, but in time,
neighbors might move, & I have no idea who might move in instead of
them.?#!???

I really wish I could explain how abnormal it is to keep your cat
confined indoors over here. Nevertheless, I am no longer willing to
take the chance of allowing mine out of our garden, but I need to be
reassured that this fencing works before installing it.
The story gets worse the more I hear;o(

I mistakenly told you that there were youths involved in the Air Rifle
shooting...
I wish to rectify my mistake by informing you that there were no
youths involved!! I got the story wrong...

In fact, it was a 35 year old man who has been leaning out of his
bedroom window for a couple of weeks( according to their neighbors who
had already warned the police of his activities...?!!!), shooting
anything that moves. Cats, people, birds, cars...Anything.
Michelle, Jacks mummy went to the news agents this morning to remove
her advert offering a reward to anyone who could lead them to their
missing cat, & the lady behind her had an advert with more or less the
same wording. Poor Michelle had to ask her where she lived.. which
turned out to be a street or so away behind her..then had to relate
the story about the discovery of Jacks body on the building site which
was adjacent to their home too......

They swapped numbers, & this afternoon the same woman rang Michelle to
tell her that their cat was one of the bodies that he was caught
trying to conceal. I have no need to tell you that she was destroyed
upon hearing the news as Michelle was.
I know that many people would stare blankly @ you if you told them
this, but they are obviously not cat slaves.. if they were, there
would be no blank look.. there would be empathy for the crimes of a
mass murderer... because that is what this is....

Telling you all about this thread is like re living through my Ringo's
nightmare all over again. The sense of deja vous is more than
sickening. Everything feels the same & sounds the same, except we were
lucky & we still have old Ringo, & Michelle has lost her beloved
friend. All of it is simply Sickening.....

I know that you all understand what I mean.

I don't seek sympathy for either myself, or Michelle's either; more
the cats personal safety, or Merely constructive idea's as to(
I found a few more links to information which I wil add in a separate
post how we might improve cats security without making them completely
indoor cats,
IF THAT IS POSSIBLE? If NOT ,I will have to rethink the situation
altogether....;o(
Sheelagh

cindys
April 23rd 07, 09:47 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> http://www.purrfectfence.com/?gclid=CJTyl8nS2YsCFSOZEAodHH_UXA

It looks good. My only concern would be cats digging/crawling underneath.
Then again, it doesn't sound as if your cats are actively trying to escape.
They just want to sit outside for some fresh air. I have heard of people
installing enclosed above-ground cat runs that go from the inside of the
house to the outside, composed of an extensive maze of tunnels. This may be
another possibility.
>
> I feel that this would be more appropriate, than allowing a select few
> of the cats to have more freedom than the others do... However, after
> this incident, I wonder if this would be enough to ensure their
> safety? I *know* that it would be enough right now, but in time,
> neighbors might move, & I have no idea who might move in instead of
> them.?#!???

If some looney tune is bound and determined to come onto your private
property and hurt or steal your cats, no kind of a fence is going to stop
him.

>
> I really wish I could explain how abnormal it is to keep your cat
> confined indoors over here. Nevertheless, I am no longer willing to
> take the chance of allowing mine out of our garden, but I need to be
> reassured that this fencing works before installing it.
>
> The story gets worse the more I hear;o(
>
> I mistakenly told you that there were youths involved in the Air Rifle
> shooting...
>
> I wish to rectify my mistake by informing you that there were no
> youths involved!! I got the story wrong...
>
> In fact, it was a 35 year old man who has been leaning out of his
> bedroom window for a couple of weeks( according to their neighbors who
> had already warned the police of his activities...?!!!), shooting
> anything that moves. Cats, people, birds, cars...Anything.

Oh my God! A bonafide psycho. And BTW, at least in the USA, shooting at
people is called "assault with deadly intent." He could be sent to federal
prison for quite a while. It's not going to bring Jack and the other cats
back, but at least he'll be someplace where he won't be able to hurt anyone.
The reality, however, is that he sounds mentally ill and will probably end
up in an institution of some sort, which probably is where he belongs.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Lynne
April 23rd 07, 11:06 PM
on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:27:18 GMT, sheelagh
> wrote:

> I don't seek sympathy for either myself, or her either. Merely
> constructive idea's as to how we might improve cats security without
> making them completely indoor cats,
> IF THAT IS POSSIBLE?

Well you have got my sympathy, Sheelagh, as well as lots of tears shed on
behalf of you, Michelle, and those poor, poor cats. This is beyond
horrible, and I doubt that cat fencing would have prevented this maniac
from doing what he did. On the other hand, keeping them confined to your
garden *should* be safe. I, too, have plans to build a cat enclosure in
my back yard. I think it's the best compromise, despite the risk from
people like the man who killed these cats. I would like to think there
aren't a lot of psychos like him, but I will also only let my cats into
their enclosure when I am home.

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

Lynne
April 23rd 07, 11:09 PM
on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:47:37 GMT, "cindys" >
wrote:

>> http://www.purrfectfence.com/?gclid=CJTyl8nS2YsCFSOZEAodHH_UXA
>
> It looks good. My only concern would be cats digging/crawling
> underneath.

That's the same fencing I was looking at. I would think you could secure
the runs between posts with long stakes. I am not sure if I will go with
something like that or if I will build a fully enclosed screen room, with a
roof. With all the other construction going on here this summer, it will
be another year before I get mine built, though.

--
Lynne


"We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know
We must laugh again"

~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech

Cheryl
April 23rd 07, 11:18 PM
On Mon 23 Apr 2007 04:47:37p, cindys wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
>:

>> http://www.purrfectfence.com/?gclid=CJTyl8nS2YsCFSOZEAodHH_UXA
>
> It looks good. My only concern would be cats digging/crawling
> underneath.

I used what looks like the same fencing material to make my cats
outdoor enclosure. I used garden stakes to hold the material tight
to the ground and haven't had a problem with digging underneath. They
sure like to dig holes *inside* the enclosure though! And I had to
cover it because Shamrock climbed it even though it was wobbly.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/shambondow/photo/294928803989704127/0

--
Cheryl

cindys
April 23rd 07, 11:39 PM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:27:18 GMT, sheelagh
> > wrote:
>
>> I don't seek sympathy for either myself, or her either. Merely
>> constructive idea's as to how we might improve cats security without
>> making them completely indoor cats,
>> IF THAT IS POSSIBLE?
>
> Well you have got my sympathy, Sheelagh, as well as lots of tears shed on
> behalf of you, Michelle, and those poor, poor cats. This is beyond
> horrible, and I doubt that cat fencing would have prevented this maniac
> from doing what he did.
----------
In this particular tragedy, I don't think the guy killed the cats while they
were in their own yards. My current impression from Sheelagh is that the guy
was in his own house shooting out his window at anything or anyone that
passed by. I previously thought that maybe he was snatching cats and
bringing them to the building site and killing them there, but on the basis
of what Sheelagh subsequently posted, it seems like the current theory is
that Jack really did wander off. Of course, this is not to suggest that a
cat couldn't be in a fenced yard and a wacko could trespass and shoot the
cat in the cat's own yard through the fence, although I think this scenario
would be less likely. I think the greater risk is that the cat would be
snatched and taken elsewhere to be shot.

OMG...I am in total disbelief that I am sitting here trying to think
logically and unemotionally about how someone would be likely to go about
shooting a cat (in terms of ease of access and reduction of risk to
himself). That we should have to think in these terms is totally appalling.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

sheelagh
April 24th 07, 01:28 AM
On 23 Apr, 23:39, "cindys" > wrote:
> "Lynne" > wrote in message
>
> m...> on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:27:18 GMT, sheelagh
> > > wrote:
>
> >> I don't seek sympathy for either myself, or her either. Merely
> >> constructive idea's as to how we might improve cats security without
> >> making them completely indoor cats,
> >> IF THAT IS POSSIBLE?
>
> > Well you have got my sympathy, Sheelagh, as well as lots of tears shed on
> > behalf of you, Michelle, and those poor, poor cats. This is beyond
> > horrible, and I doubt that cat fencing would have prevented this maniac
> > from doing what he did.
>
> ----------
> In this particular tragedy, I don't think the guy killed the cats while they
> were in their own yards. My current impression from Sheelagh is that the guy
> was in his own house shooting out his window at anything or anyone that
> passed by. I previously thought that maybe he was snatching cats and
> bringing them to the building site and killing them there, but on the basis
> of what Sheelagh subsequently posted, it seems like the current theory is
> that Jack really did wander off. Of course, this is not to suggest that a
> cat couldn't be in a fenced yard and a wacko could trespass and shoot the
> cat in the cat's own yard through the fence, although I think this scenario
> would be less likely. I think the greater risk is that the cat would be
> snatched and taken elsewhere to be shot.
>
> OMG...I am in total disbelief that I am sitting here trying to think
> logically and unemotionally about how someone would be likely to go about
> shooting a cat (in terms of ease of access and reduction of risk to
> himself). That we should have to think in these terms is totally appalling.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.

> In this particular tragedy, I don't think the guy killed the cats while they
> were in their own yards. My current impression from Sheelagh is that the guy
> was in his own house shooting out his window at anything or anyone that
> passed by. I previously thought that maybe he was snatching cats and
> bringing them to the building site and killing them there, but on the basis
> of what Sheelagh subsequently posted, it seems like the current theory is
> that Jack really did wander off. Of course, this is not to suggest that a
> cat couldn't be in a fenced yard and a wacko could trespass and shoot the
> cat in the cat's own yard through the fence, although I think this scenario
> would be less likely. I think the greater risk is that the cat would be
> snatched and taken elsewhere to be shot

I believe that the polices theory is that the child left the side door
open & that he was able to pick the cat up & put it in his car, then
took him to shoot it elsewhere.
It is only a theory, but there is more evidence to suggest that he
did, than tried to pick him up & carry him off.. that would have taken
precious time which he didn't have....

If we have aportion blame, it was Michelle's for not checking that he
was secure in the sanctuary of the house or the back garden which was
fenced off for his safety. One other thing that I forgot to mention,
is that Jack loved jumping in cars, so this a very real potential
scenario;when ever they got into the car up the driveway, he would
jump in, in the hope that he might be allowed to come too. Michelle
very often took him out on reins whenever they went to her mothers,
which was on a frequent basis. So it is the most possible/likely thing
that could have happen because he loved the car rides. When Michelle
went out with her husband, she didn't just take the kids, she took
Jack too to be cat/baby sat. She wouldn't have dreamed of leaving him
@ home alone!

< I smile remembering that>

Her mother loved him almost as much as she did.
With regard to remorse & guilt, I don't think that anyone could make
her feel feel any guiltier than she already does.
In her own words..."How could I have let him down so badly. I wouldn't
allow Thomas out the front & it could so easily have been him as well,
or instead". I have *never* seen someone feel so dreadful about
herself. Of course she blames herself, however destructive the emotion
is, she won't be persuaded otherwise. I don't blame her. We are human,
& we *all* err..it's human nature

> OMG...I am in total disbelief that I am sitting here trying to think
> logically and unemotionally about how someone would be likely to go about
> shooting a cat (in terms of ease of access and reduction of risk to
> himself). That we should have to think in these terms is totally appalling.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy
It is appalling. It's staggering to think that he was so calculating,
premeditated. He **MUST** have let him into the car & literally drove
off, only taking him around the corner to use as target practise on
the building site...

On the second occasion, when he shot @ Ivan & Thomas, it was
definately from a window in the upstairs of his building/home, because
Ivan saw him there when he was trying to work out where it had come
from. I feel sick just considering it. How could any man choose to
stand at a window & fire at a child & another man?
The **ONLY** reason that I can think of is because when the police
originally attended the call from the them, he asked Ivan to point out
the house, & he accompanied the officer to the front door, when he
admitted owning a gun, but denied firing it @ them.

I am currently waiting for another update now. it is frustrating
because Michelle works 3 jobs, so I have to catch her in @ the right
time...
The more I find out, the sooner I will update you. All I know today is
that the TFRU (tactical firearms response unit), where coming to take
a statement tonight.....
He is in great need of sectioning..~(over here, the medics can force
you into being held my a mental institution if they feel that you are
a danger to yourself or others in your current mental state)...as
should have been done with Cho in VA, in hindsight...

Sheelagh

bookie
April 24th 07, 01:40 AM
>
> In fact, it was a 35 year old man who has been leaning out of his
> bedroom window for a couple of weeks( according to their neighbors who
> had already warned the police of his activities...?!!!), shooting
> anything that moves. Cats, people, birds, cars...Anything.
>
knowing what a bunch of useless a-holes the police tend to be over
here and how they will not lift a finger unless someone has already
been murdered or similar, I would just go and sort the guy out myself,
not wait for the fuzz to do anything, cos they won't, even if he were
targetting humans they won't until he hits someone. It's thoroughly
**** but thats the way it is.

now the thing is that if they made an example of this guy and threw
the book at him (slightly more possible now we know he is an 'adult')
then it may well put off other nutters and morons from spending their
spare time in a similarly deranged and murderous fashion and then we
will be able to let our kitties out safely. Unfortunately, this does
not tend to happen so vicious youths like this man will go out taking
pot shots at innocent animals, safe in the knowledge that nothing will
happen to them via the official channels (although believe me, if they
harm a hair on the heads of my cats they will ****ing well know about
it, i will not be leaving the matter solely inthe hands of police and
those other ineffectual agencies who do **** all and allow evil scum
to go free).

THAT is the problem really, the fact that these little turds know
they can get away with it, and so they will continue to do so and make
certain neighbourhoods unsafe for anyone, so the sooner they are
punished and removed the sooner the message that this kind of
antisocial and evil behaviour will nto be tolerated and it will cease
to be.

i am gettign angry again about the whole thing

bookie

sheelagh
April 24th 07, 02:02 AM
On 23 Apr, 02:41, chatnoir > wrote:
> On Apr 22, 6:01 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 23 Apr, 00:12, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > "Lynne" > wrote in message
>
> > m...> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh >
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > >> She is *Gutted*..
>
> > > > Oh my god. I am horrified. I don't know what else to say. Sheelagh, I'm
> > > > so sorry.
>
> > > > I need to throw up.
>
> > > -----------
> > > I just also posted that I needed to throw up and that there was nothing more
> > > to say. Actually, there is something more thing to say: For anyone who was
> > > previously defending the law that allows juveniles to get off with a warning
> > > and emerge with a clean record.....The fact that these animals who killed
> > > Jack and the other cats also shot at *people,* including an18-month-old
> > > toddler says it all. I hope these *youths* are prosecuted to the full extent
> > > of the law, and they are put away for a long, long time, but the unfortunate
> > > fact is that I am convinced that people such as these will remain a danger
> > > to society for the rest of their lives, no matter how they are punished.
> > > Psychopaths always start out hurting and killing animals. There is something
> > > totally terrifying about someone who is so devoid of emotion, sympathy,
> > > morals etc that he can cold-bloodedly kill a dozen cats and shoot an air
> > > rifle at a toddler, who also could have been killed. And the fact that it
> > > wasn't just one *youth* but several *youths* acting together is also
> > > terrifying. In the USA, if they had killed a person, the charge would have
> > > been first-degree murder, and in the USA, a juvenile who commits murder is
> > > prosecuted as an adult.
>
> > > Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who
> > > managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and
> > > gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own
> > > blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's
> > > belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail
> > > every year...I think that's terrifying.
> > > Best regards,
> > > ---Cindy S.
> > > Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who
> > > managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and
> > > gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own
> > > blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's
> > > belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail
> > > every year...I think that's terrifying.
>
> > OMG, Really..?
>
> > That is dreadful. It is beyond my comprehension as to why we as tax
> > payers should have to pay to keep cretins like this alive. The
> > disgusting thought of killing an unborn child is worse than any other
> > crime that I can think of. Horrific in fact...Bring back Hanging, or
> > if we are too yellow bellied for that in the UK, the lethal injection
> > will do just fine....
>
> > When Ringo was shot, I felt anger that I didn't know was within
> > me..But that is nothing compared to what I feel today. as Bookie said,
> > I was hoping against hope that he was in some one's garden shed, or
> > even stolen.. But to be there when the police arrived to impart the
> > news that they thought they had found Jack & that they needed someone
> > to identify him then to take in the fact that they were aiming a
> > weapon @ an 18 month old child, pushed me past anger & sent me into a
> > rage I have ***never***experienced before....
>
> > Shooting @ a child HAS to be taken seriously. It **IS** ATTEMPED
> > MURDER. I really can't tale it all in right now. It feels like I am
> > hovering above myself watching it all unfold. I think the ultimate
> > question has to be **WHY** did they do it???
> > I would imagine that I feel the same way @ this very moment as you all
> > must have felt when you all heard about this Cho geyser. They are
> > beyond feeling is my only thought....
>
> > Right now, they really do disgust me. I am in constant touch with
> > Mummy ( Michelle) & will keep you all up to date with this as it
> > unfolds. I will push her every inch of the way, & be there for her
> > when she needs me too. this will not go unpunished, I assure you of
> > that.. Our poor darling cat Jack. We will stand up and be counted for
> > this crime..
> > S.
>
> Wow I guess this is a serious problem!:
>
> http://www.gun-control-network.org/A004.htm
>
> excerpt:
>
> 2. CAMPAIGNS - AIRGUNS
>
> There has been a large rise in the number of airguns used in crime
> over the past ten years. The figure for 1990 was 5,380 weapons
> whereas by 1999/00 it had risen to 10,103.
>
> GCN's submission to the Home Affairs Committee (HAC) highlighted the
> extent of the damage that airguns can cause to people, animals and
> property by preparing a list of incidents derived from two sources,
> reports from a national newspaper during the last five years and
> information given by MPs during debates and committee sessions (see
> list below).
>
> Lethality & registration:
>
> GCN was disappointed at the Government's response to the HAC report.
> Although all airguns are not going to be licensed, we hope that the
> definition of a 'lethal weapon' will be such as to require the
> certification of a large number of airguns that are not currently
> within the licensing system.
>
> Airgun incidents - examples from the press & MPs:
>
> Daily Telegraph
>
> 7 August 1998 Airgun boy cleared of intent over a shot girl. A 16
> year old teenager shot a 12 year old girl, Jasmine Proverbs, in the
> head while showing off a new 195 rifle fitted with telescopic sights
> and silencer. A bit of the pellet is still lodged in her brain. He
> had also shot Jasmine's brother in the leg the previous day.
>
> 11 November 1998 Air rifle attack on pupils. Four children and a
> dinner lady were hit by pellets fired from an air rifle at a
> playground of a Primary School. A 16 year old was arrested.
>
> 16 January 1999 Teenager shot in 'war game'. Richard Bryant, 13, was
> critically injured when a pellet fired from an airgun lodged in is
> skull. Four boys aged 11 to 14 were involved. A 14 year old was
> arrested.
>
> 13 July 1999 George Atkinson, 13, was fatally wounded after being hit
> by an airgun pellet in the garden of his aunt's house.
>
> Derby Evening Telegraph
>
> 28 August 2001 Cygnets shot in the head. Two young swans have been
> left with serious head injuries after being shot.... An RSPCA Inspector
> said 'Two people appear to have gone and deliberately used these swans
> as target practice with no regard to the suffering they must have gone
> through.'
>
> Ripley & Heanor News
>
> 20 September 2001 Teenager is shot in airgun incident. 15 year old
> Darren Harrison underwent emergency surgery on his stomach after being
> shot while walking along a public footpath. Surgeons were unable to
> remove the airgun pellet which wounded him. The police found evidence
> of target practice taking place on the path which runs between a wood
> and open fields.
>
> The Middlesbrough Gazette
>
> May 2001 Child killed. A Teeside child was killed on 3rd May 2001 by
> another child using its father's air rifle, prosecution pending.
>
> Examples given by MPs
>
> Mr Doug Henderson (Newcastle upon Tyne N). Standing Committee E. 21st
> November 1996. A 65 year old Aberdeenshire man died instantly after a
> pellet fired by a 17 year old taking pot-shots with his new airgun hit
> him after he stepped into the line of fire.
>
> Mr Gordon Prentice (Pendle) Standing Committee E. 21st November 1996.
> Residents on Leigh's biggest housing estate have had enough of teenage
> troublemakers who use waste bins for airgun practice even though young
> children are playing there.
>
> Dr Nick Palmer MP (Broxtowe) 21st January 1998. Reported that the Cat
> Protection League has estimated that every year 10,000 cats are killed
> or maimed.
>
> Jeff Ennis (Barnsley, East and Mexborough). Air Guns (Safety) 23rd
> June 1999. Adam Yoxall, aged 10, was hit in the eye by an airgun
> pellet while playing in a local wood. He lost the sight in is left
> eye
>
> A 12 year old boy was left in agony after being shot in the back by a
> sniper
>
> http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/95/...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes CN, It has certainly struck me very close to home I assure you;o(
Also, thank you very much indeed for taking the time to research &
also for providing link that you did, for us. It got me thinking & I
set to work to see if there was an updated version of that link & I
found it. I will add a link into this post shortly. I also looked it
up in brader terms & I found a few other links too. I am going to post
them because they are very relevant to the group, but more so those
that live in the UK.
However, I am going to see if I can find anything that would be of
help to you all over the other side of the pond. Having said that, I
don't believe that you have such a big as we do with this problem as
we do, for 2 reasons.

1) Most of you seem to keep you cats as indoor only pets, so that
knocks 50% of the problem right on the head...

2) Your kids or adults don't need to use imitation style guns or even
air rifles, because you have access to the real thing. If someone has
a trigger happy mind, they can do the job properly & ensure that they
do shoot to kill. Here, they have to settle for second best. No one
with the sort of mentality I have just spoken about, would get a gun
licence here. The police would reject the request immediately. I don't
believe for one moment that he hasn't already met the wrong side of
the law @ 35 years old.. do you?

I am inclined to agree with both Cindy & Bookie's theory on the
subject..
It does start @ an early age & simply gets progressively worse, until
they are either stopped, or taken aside and put in jail, or a mental
institution.....

I am desperate to make sure that this one doesn't fall to the way side
@ all. I encouraged her to ring our local paper, email her Memeber of
Parliament( after all that is what he is there for...to take our
causes to parliament & present them!!)
Please don't anyone of you take this as an insult because I certainly
don't mean it to come across as one!!

Michelle has also called the Rspca, The Cat Protection League, her vet
& Wood Green Animal Shelter to alert them that there is a serious
threat to cats in her area & also to inform them that if they get any
shot cats in, that she believes she knows why and where the threat
lies too.

Here is an updated version of the brilliant link you so kindly
provided for us:

http://www.gun-control-network.org/INS0606.htm

This is another one showing the terrible injuries that occur when
idiotic psychotic maniacs get new * **TOYS***
http://www.parkvets.com/petsandvets-airgun.html

And this one is about parliament & the updating of the gun laws too
(if I remember rightly - I did this earlier, saved it, then had to
hand over the PC to the kids for homework time).

Thank you for presenting the facts and the idea too
sheelagh

Cheryl
April 24th 07, 02:11 AM
On Mon 23 Apr 2007 09:02:18p, sheelagh wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
ps.com>:

> 2) Your kids or adults don't need to use imitation style guns or
> even air rifles, because you have access to the real thing. If
> someone has a trigger happy mind, they can do the job properly &
> ensure that they do shoot to kill. Here, they have to settle for
> second best. No one with the sort of mentality I have just
> spoken about, would get a gun licence here. The police would
> reject the request immediately. I don't believe for one moment
> that he hasn't already met the wrong side of the law @ 35 years
> old.. do you?
>

Most kids here do not have access to the real thing. It's the odd
story to hear of kids shooting cats with real guns. In fact I've
never heard of one. Air guns maybe, but not real guns. Kids shoot
other kids or other humans with real guns. Not cats. If they can
get one. And that is gang related.

--
Cheryl

sheelagh
April 24th 07, 03:17 AM
On 24 Apr, 01:40, bookie > wrote:
> > In fact, it was a 35 year old man who has been leaning out of his
> > bedroom window for a couple of weeks( according to their neighbors who
> > had already warned the police of his activities...?!!!), shooting
> > anything that moves. Cats, people, birds, cars...Anything.
>
> knowing what a bunch of useless a-holes the police tend to be over
> here and how they will not lift a finger unless someone has already
> been murdered or similar, I would just go and sort the guy out myself,
> not wait for the fuzz to do anything, cos they won't, even if he were
> targeting humans they won't until he hits someone. It's thoroughly
> **** but that's the way it is.
>
> now the thing is that if they made an example of this guy and threw
> the book at him (slightly more possible now we know he is an 'adult')
> then it may well put off other nutters and morons from spending their
> spare time in a similarly deranged and murderous fashion and then we
> will be able to let our kitties out safely. Unfortunately, this does
> not tend to happen so vicious youths like this man will go out taking
> pot shots at innocent animals, safe in the knowledge that nothing will
> happen to them via the official channels (although believe me, if they
> harm a hair on the heads of my cats they will ****ing well know about
> it, i will not be leaving the matter solely inthe hands of police and
> those other ineffectual agencies who do **** all and allow evil scum
> to go free).
>
> THAT is the problem really, the fact that these little turds know
> they can get away with it, and so they will continue to do so and make
> certain neighbourhoods unsafe for anyone, so the sooner they are
> punished and removed the sooner the message that this kind of
> antisocial and evil behaviour will nto be tolerated and it will cease
> to be.
>
> i am gettign angry again about the whole thing
>
> bookie

*************FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE LIGHTHEARTED, PLEASE DON'T READ
THIS IF YOU ARE PLEASE CUZ I'M ANGRY************


Oh Bookie...
How many times have we discussed this issue?? We have gone over this
one time and time again * I'm ****ing well sick of it*.. I can't
remember how many times I have gone through the proper channels and
done it all above board so that no one could say @ the end of it all,
this woman did it the right way round & she got justice...

well, that simply isn't true.. I could beat myself black and blue with
anger right now. And just to put a finer point on the issue, I
wouldn't be beating myself black and blue if they had bloody well done
something, in fact ANY BLOODY Thing at all... I want to beat myself
black and blue for being a ****ing moron and believing that there is a
such as thing as justice and comeuppance for wasting ******s that call
themselves policemen & women too..Well, you can start off by saying
that it is an utter load of Bollux, because there ids no justice @
all.. ...

In fact, why the bloody hell did they pass that piece of ****ty
legislation called the animals right act...? You tell me, cuz I can't
think of one bloody reason @ all???
The politicians go through the motions & pass the bloody thing so
that the poor things have something to protect them & not one [email protected]
policeman does a ****ing thing about it..Well you know what, there is
only so wanking much you can take....##
As far as I am concerned, why don't I go outside right now and start
firing rounds out of Paul's dad's under & over 12bore and blast a hole
right through the policeman's come fuzz useless ******'s door across
the road?? The stupid cretin born piece of moron useless ****** does
**** all anyway so why bother living? I bet that would wake the cretin
up, wouldn't it????

Do I really have to go round there and stick a 12 bore up his snout to
make him realise that I am just as alive as he is & if he wants the
same privilege of life as I, my family & my feline family do, then he
ought to bloody well show me so..why the **** are they paying this
****** to have a permanent coffee break until he's 50 then giving him
a golden handshake. These are my taxes we are talking about here..he
knows damned well what Ringo went through & he also knows that Jack
was shot the other day because i made it my business to tell him so
cuz he is in the tactical firearms response unit, the useless
prick...JUSTICE? WHAT JUSTICE???#[email protected]?

I had to pay the bloody vet just under a 1000 for Ringo.. where the
**** do I get that sort of money from do you think?
I had to borrow it from my hard strapped mother, whilst little teddy
down the roads father pays me in dribs and drabs...do you think my
mother wants it back @ 40quid a week, or do you thin she might prefer
it all in one lump sum as she should be entitled to. So far it has
been a day late once.. but the hair that broke the camels back, just
broke it..**** em...do it once more and I will take the **** back to
court...
The demented take the **** and wise take what they can so that we live
on NOTHING.
I get 12 a week for caring for Paul, but Mr sloballoveryou has
private care in a nursing home @ a cost of over 600 smackers a week..
WHAT ****ING JUSTICE?

I have stopped Ross going out with a base ball bat & pleaded with him
not to take that approach because I didnt want him to be the one who
ended up in trouble AS PER USUAL in this **** hole of a welcome we-
are British- so -come- and -rob our- welfare system- of -a -country-
whilst- the- ones -who -have -worked- here- don't- get- a- pay- rise-
big -enough- for- our- pensioners -to- even- buy- a- loaf- of bread- a
-week **** hole....But NO WE MUST NOT SPEAK OUT ABOUT IT for fear of
being RACIST..
Well you know what? you don't have to b ****ing white or a honkey to
take racism. our faces are shoved in the ******* every day..
SERIOUSLY... I MEAN IT!! And I feel that I AM BEING ABUSED & OPRESSED
BY RACISM TOO..I ASSUME THAT ANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO **REALLY KNOW ME,
WILL ALSO KNOW THAT I AM NOT RACIST, I WAS RAISED IN THE BOWELS OF
AFRICA..**** IT MAKES ME SO ANGRY..BTW..this fellow that stuck a slug
in Jack happens to be czechoslovacian who apparently can't speak a
word of English until he gets his giro from the department of works
and pension every Tuesday.. which also happens to be for a man of no
fixed abode so he gets even more money (YEAH RIGHT, & my name is bugs
****ing bunny)

I CAN'T threaten any one specific, but I can tell you that I am a semi
fortune teller, & I foretell that there wil be a very loud explosion
on a village very nearby to me in the very near future. Ross has taken
to carrying around snooker balls inside socks.. & I intend to ignore
for the foreseeable future.

Well, I am ****ed off with doing it the right way round because it
hasn't paid us one single time to do it the **RIGHT WAY**..They simply
can't be ****ing Arse holed to respond to a poor ******* cat death,
much less a man & a toddler.. useless yellow bellied ****s..Nah, lets
concentrate on what the Mrs is going to cost me this year to buy a
frock for the annual policeman's Ball.. that Is by far, FAR more
IMPORTANT pastime....It took the police over 3****ing hours to respond
to a shooting incident.. hows that for" **** you, & up yours you have
only been [email protected],. WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM????????? WASTERS scum of the
earth"..

Well, you know what, I am ashamed of being British. GREAT BRITAIN?????
What is so ****ing great about it apart form the social service and
benefit systems that are ripped off left right & centre by everyone
except those that are rightly entitled to it?.. whilst the ****ing
idiots who are British stand in line & also whilst Mrs Singh goes
straight to the front of the Que and gets 5 x what I do because her
uncle in Pakistan needs to come over and get his cataracts operated on
whilst our local hospital down the road is due to be shut down for
lack of funding and overuse by visitors to britain..Call me what you
like, cuz I know it is the truth. you get my drift?

I think it is time we decided to start our own style of neighborhood
watch. Everyone on patrole should be given an air rifle for self
defense & why not chuck a few of those taser guns in for good measure
too? I am sure that they would be much a appreciated by the people who
do more to protect us and our animals than the entire police force in
the UK (I can't say great Britain cuz it makes my mouth taste like dog
crap)

IT IS TIME THAT ALL ANUIMAL ABUSERS ARE SENT TO ANIMAL RESEACH
LABORATORIES TO TAKE THE PLACE OF THE PRIMATES THERE, CUZ THAT IS THE
ONLY USE FOR THEM..WHY WASTE TAX PAYERS MONETY IN PRISONS KEEPING THEM?
IF THE LABS DON'T WANT THEM, THEN PUT THEM TO SLEEP FOR EVER...
IF MICHELLE GETS NO GOOD RESPONSE BY TOMORROW BUGGAR IT, I'M LETTING
MY LADS OFF THE LEASH...
..
<SEETHING WITH ANGER & MISERY HERE>
S.

sheelagh
April 24th 07, 03:30 AM
On 24 Apr, 02:11, Cheryl > wrote:
> On Mon 23 Apr 2007 09:02:18p, sheelagh wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> ps.com>:
>
> > 2) Your kids or adults don't need to use imitation style guns or
> > even air rifles, because you have access to the real thing. If
> > someone has a trigger happy mind, they can do the job properly &
> > ensure that they do shoot to kill. Here, they have to settle for
> > second best. No one with the sort of mentality I have just
> > spoken about, would get a gun licence here. The police would
> > reject the request immediately. I don't believe for one moment
> > that he hasn't already met the wrong side of the law @ 35 years
> > old.. do you?
>
> Most kids here do not have access to the real thing. It's the odd
> story to hear of kids shooting cats with real guns. In fact I've
> never heard of one. Air guns maybe, but not real guns. Kids shoot
> other kids or other humans with real guns. Not cats. If they can
> get one. And that is gang related.
>
> --
> Cheryl

I am sorry if I came over as overbearing or to insinuate that American
children are diferent to ours @ all. All I really meant was that if
this idiot had a real gun, we would have dead people here because he
is deranged.
nothing else at all Cheryl. I apologies. Most kids over here are ok,
but as with any where in the world, we have our problem kids too.
In fact we have a current breed of children collectively called CHAVS
who fit this description accurately
The point here is that he is a 35 year old man.. He should know
better, & If he is as deranged as I think he is, then he needs
removing from society until he is safe to release, if ever....;o(

sheelagh
April 24th 07, 03:42 AM
On 24 Apr, 01:40, bookie > wrote:
> > In fact, it was a 35 year old man who has been leaning out of his
> > bedroom window for a couple of weeks( according to their neighbors who
> > had already warned the police of his activities...?!!!), shooting
> > anything that moves. Cats, people, birds, cars...Anything.
>
> knowing what a bunch of useless a-holes the police tend to be over
> here and how they will not lift a finger unless someone has already
> been murdered or similar, I would just go and sort the guy out myself,
> not wait for the fuzz to do anything, cos they won't, even if he were
> targetting humans they won't until he hits someone. It's thoroughly
> **** but thats the way it is.
>
> now the thing is that if they made an example of this guy and threw
> the book at him (slightly more possible now we know he is an 'adult')
> then it may well put off other nutters and morons from spending their
> spare time in a similarly deranged and murderous fashion and then we
> will be able to let our kitties out safely. Unfortunately, this does
> not tend to happen so vicious youths like this man will go out taking
> pot shots at innocent animals, safe in the knowledge that nothing will
> happen to them via the official channels (although believe me, if they
> harm a hair on the heads of my cats they will ****ing well know about
> it, i will not be leaving the matter solely inthe hands of police and
> those other ineffectual agencies who do **** all and allow evil scum
> to go free).
>
> THAT is the problem really, the fact that these little turds know
> they can get away with it, and so they will continue to do so and make
> certain neighbourhoods unsafe for anyone, so the sooner they are
> punished and removed the sooner the message that this kind of
> antisocial and evil behaviour will nto be tolerated and it will cease
> to be.
>
> i am gettign angry again about the whole thing
>
> bookie

> i am gettign angry again about the whole thing
TELL ME;o(

I am livid with them all. I have just had an outburst which was
totally out of order, but accurate as far as the truth is concerned. I
really am seething that we have to go to such lengths to get justice.
I have tried the right way too many times and it gets me to the same
place every single time.
NOWHERE.
I forgot to give you the link that I found today. It makes happy
reading because he is an adult and he is in line for a bloody hefty
fine & a jail term too.. a nice long one;not long enough, but it'll
do. Look at the table in the first one to see how long, ok?

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/95/9508.htm

The next one is a bit more up to date with the one that chatnoir gave
us so kindly yesterday


http://www.gun-control-network.org/INS0606.htm

& the next one gives us some idea of how the cats are being shot left
right & centre...

http://www.parkvets.com/petsandvets-airgun.html

I am sorry if I offended anyone. My anger ids aimed at the police
because they have been given laws to act on to stop this kind of thing
happening, yet they don't seem to care at all.
I feel that because we can speak English, we do wait in lines & we
obey the law, that we are considered as lowest status priority.
The more I obey the law, the longer we are ignored..IT IS WRONG
S.

Barry
April 24th 07, 04:22 AM
On Apr 23, 9:02 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
> On 23 Apr, 02:41, chatnoir > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 22, 6:01 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > On 23 Apr, 00:12, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > > "Lynne" > wrote in message
>
> > > m...> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh >
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > >> She is *Gutted*..
>
> > > > > Oh my god. I am horrified. I don't know what else to say. Sheelagh, I'm
> > > > > so sorry.
>
> > > > > I need to throw up.
>
> > > > -----------
> > > > I just also posted that I needed to throw up and that there was nothing more
> > > > to say. Actually, there is something more thing to say: For anyone who was
> > > > previously defending the law that allows juveniles to get off with a warning
> > > > and emerge with a clean record.....The fact that these animals who killed
> > > > Jack and the other cats also shot at *people,* including an18-month-old
> > > > toddler says it all. I hope these *youths* are prosecuted to the full extent
> > > > of the law, and they are put away for a long, long time, but the unfortunate
> > > > fact is that I am convinced that people such as these will remain a danger
> > > > to society for the rest of their lives, no matter how they are punished.
> > > > Psychopaths always start out hurting and killing animals. There is something
> > > > totally terrifying about someone who is so devoid of emotion, sympathy,
> > > > morals etc that he can cold-bloodedly kill a dozen cats and shoot an air
> > > > rifle at a toddler, who also could have been killed. And the fact that it
> > > > wasn't just one *youth* but several *youths* acting together is also
> > > > terrifying. In the USA, if they had killed a person, the charge would have
> > > > been first-degree murder, and in the USA, a juvenile who commits murder is
> > > > prosecuted as an adult.
>
> > > > Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who
> > > > managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and
> > > > gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own
> > > > blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's
> > > > belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail
> > > > every year...I think that's terrifying.
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > ---Cindy S.
> > > > Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who
> > > > managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and
> > > > gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own
> > > > blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's
> > > > belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail
> > > > every year...I think that's terrifying.
>
> > > OMG, Really..?
>
> > > That is dreadful. It is beyond my comprehension as to why we as tax
> > > payers should have to pay to keep cretins like this alive. The
> > > disgusting thought of killing an unborn child is worse than any other
> > > crime that I can think of. Horrific in fact...Bring back Hanging, or
> > > if we are too yellow bellied for that in the UK, the lethal injection
> > > will do just fine....
>
> > > When Ringo was shot, I felt anger that I didn't know was within
> > > me..But that is nothing compared to what I feel today. as Bookie said,
> > > I was hoping against hope that he was in some one's garden shed, or
> > > even stolen.. But to be there when the police arrived to impart the
> > > news that they thought they had found Jack & that they needed someone
> > > to identify him then to take in the fact that they were aiming a
> > > weapon @ an 18 month old child, pushed me past anger & sent me into a
> > > rage I have ***never***experienced before....
>
> > > Shooting @ a child HAS to be taken seriously. It **IS** ATTEMPED
> > > MURDER. I really can't tale it all in right now. It feels like I am
> > > hovering above myself watching it all unfold. I think the ultimate
> > > question has to be **WHY** did they do it???
> > > I would imagine that I feel the same way @ this very moment as you all
> > > must have felt when you all heard about this Cho geyser. They are
> > > beyond feeling is my only thought....
>
> > > Right now, they really do disgust me. I am in constant touch with
> > > Mummy ( Michelle) & will keep you all up to date with this as it
> > > unfolds. I will push her every inch of the way, & be there for her
> > > when she needs me too. this will not go unpunished, I assure you of
> > > that.. Our poor darling cat Jack. We will stand up and be counted for
> > > this crime..
> > > S.
>
> > Wow I guess this is a serious problem!:
>
> >http://www.gun-control-network.org/A004.htm
>
> > excerpt:
>
> > 2. CAMPAIGNS - AIRGUNS
>
> > There has been a large rise in the number of airguns used in crime
> > over the past ten years. The figure for 1990 was 5,380 weapons
> > whereas by 1999/00 it had risen to 10,103.
>
> > GCN's submission to the Home Affairs Committee (HAC) highlighted the
> > extent of the damage that airguns can cause to people, animals and
> > property by preparing a list of incidents derived from two sources,
> > reports from a national newspaper during the last five years and
> > information given by MPs during debates and committee sessions (see
> > list below).
>
> > Lethality & registration:
>
> > GCN was disappointed at the Government's response to the HAC report.
> > Although all airguns are not going to be licensed, we hope that the
> > definition of a 'lethal weapon' will be such as to require the
> > certification of a large number of airguns that are not currently
> > within the licensing system.
>
> > Airgun incidents - examples from the press & MPs:
>
> > Daily Telegraph
>
> > 7 August 1998 Airgun boy cleared of intent over a shot girl. A 16
> > year old teenager shot a 12 year old girl, Jasmine Proverbs, in the
> > head while showing off a new 195 rifle fitted with telescopic sights
> > and silencer. A bit of the pellet is still lodged in her brain. He
> > had also shot Jasmine's brother in the leg the previous day.
>
> > 11 November 1998 Air rifle attack on pupils. Four children and a
> > dinner lady were hit by pellets fired from an air rifle at a
> > playground of a Primary School. A 16 year old was arrested.
>
> > 16 January 1999 Teenager shot in 'war game'. Richard Bryant, 13, was
> > critically injured when a pellet fired from an airgun lodged in is
> > skull. Four boys aged 11 to 14 were involved. A 14 year old was
> > arrested.
>
> > 13 July 1999 George Atkinson, 13, was fatally wounded after being hit
> > by an airgun pellet in the garden of his aunt's house.
>
> > Derby Evening Telegraph
>
> > 28 August 2001 Cygnets shot in the head. Two young swans have been
> > left with serious head injuries after being shot.... An RSPCA Inspector
> > said 'Two people appear to have gone and deliberately used these swans
> > as target practice with no regard to the suffering they must have gone
> > through.'
>
> > Ripley & Heanor News
>
> > 20 September 2001 Teenager is shot in airgun incident. 15 year old
> > Darren Harrison underwent emergency surgery on his stomach after being
> > shot while walking along a public footpath. Surgeons were unable to
> > remove the airgun pellet which wounded him. The police found evidence
> > of target practice taking place on the path which runs between a wood
> > and open fields.
>
> > The Middlesbrough Gazette
>
> > May 2001 Child killed. A Teeside child was killed on 3rd May 2001 by
> > another child using its father's air rifle, prosecution pending.
>
> > Examples given by MPs
>
> > Mr Doug Henderson (Newcastle upon Tyne N). Standing Committee E. 21st
> > November 1996. A 65 year old Aberdeenshire man died instantly after a
> > pellet fired by a 17 year old taking pot-shots with his new airgun hit
> > him after he stepped into the line of fire.
>
> > Mr Gordon Prentice (Pendle) Standing Committee E. 21st November 1996.
> > Residents on Leigh's biggest housing estate have had enough of teenage
> > troublemakers who use waste bins for airgun practice even though young
> > children are playing there.
>
> > Dr Nick Palmer MP (Broxtowe) 21st January 1998. Reported that the Cat
> > Protection League has estimated that every year 10,000 cats are killed
> > or maimed.
>
> > Jeff Ennis (Barnsley, East and Mexborough). Air Guns (Safety) 23rd
> > June 1999. Adam Yoxall, aged 10, was hit in the eye by an airgun
> > pellet while playing in a local wood. He lost the sight in is left
> > eye
>
> > A 12 year old boy was left in agony after being shot in the back by a
> > sniper
>
> >http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/95/...Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Yes CN, It has certainly struck me very close to home I assure you;o(
> Also, thank you very much indeed for taking the time to research &
> also for providing link that you did, for us. It got me thinking & I
> set to work to see if there was an updated version of that link & I
> found it. I will add a link into this post shortly. I also looked it
> up in brader terms & I found a few other links too. I am going to post
> them because they are very relevant to the group, but more so those
> that live in the UK.
> However, I am going to see if I can find anything that would be of
> help to you all over the other side of the pond. Having said that, I
> don't believe that you have such a big as we do with this problem as
> we do, for 2 reasons.
>
> 1) Most of you seem to keep you cats as indoor only pets, so that
> knocks 50% of the problem right on the head...
>
> 2) Your kids or adults don't need to use imitation style guns or even
> air rifles, because you have access to the real thing. If someone has
> a trigger happy mind, they can do the job properly & ensure that they
> do shoot to kill. Here, they have to settle for second best. No one
> with the sort of mentality I have just spoken about, would get a gun
> licence here. The police would reject the request immediately. I don't
> believe for one moment that he hasn't already met the wrong side of ...
>
> read more

don't believe a word of it sheelagh, our kids are as rotten as they
come.
you only hear about a few dirty cat deeds... what about the ones you
don't hear.
at large our public does not have near the esteem towards animals that
we need.

of course we all know kids are mean a crap

and, any kid can get into their dads gun cabinet

shirl is right about gangs.. yes.. kids join gangs and they do have
guns

I wouldn't give a baby access to a razor blade, I should be darn sure
to LOCK my guns away if I have un-stable boys.. only problem.. if my
child is unstable, chances are I am too unstable to see it or act
accordingly.

however! I know plenty of 12, 13, 14 yr old boys, or I have known..
they like to go hunting with their dads or uncles etc... they have
nice expensive shot guns and know how to use them... they are country
and they are proud.

by children I don't mean the same age as the fella at the school
plenty was wrong, hind sight is 20/20, of course we could have
prevented such

but thats just hind sight, sometimes the solution was only 1/2 a frog
hair away
but being that close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

--

here's an honest question

Why does it seem our off-spring is getting dumber and dumber

I thought plenty of our fore-fathers and ancestors bore great burdens
of responsibility long before say the age of 15

Not so anymore,.. these kids are sittin up angry

they are angry? yes.. that's another story
why are they angry and I'm dying to tell why

it's many things, but comes down to one damn thing hypocrisy in the
adults.
corruption in authorities

do as we say not as we do

children and kids are smart

so we let a boy live at home without actually earning his keep, never
teach him the difference between a tail-pipe or a motor...

A real man doesn't have to break up the dishes just to prove he's a
man
A real man just handles his business and doesn't put angers on his
family.

Then there's prohibition. If we banned alcohol again, we would see far
less crime.
The saloon is a mocker to the family structure of our society, yours
too, the family.
The saloon takes a good decent man and turns him into a stinking broke
negro.

It's not just one thing

bookie
April 24th 07, 01:41 PM
.. Most kids over here are ok,
> but as with any where in the world, we have our problem kids too.
> In fact we have a current breed of children collectively called CHAVS
> who fit this description accurately

how true, chavs are the scum of modern society

> The point here is that he is a 35 year old man.. He should know
> better, & If he is as deranged as I think he is, then he needs
> removing from society until he is safe to release, if ever....;o(-

i agree completely, the guy obviously has some psychological problem
or deficiency which means he is unable to function and behave normlaly
within our society and amongst other people/animals without feeling
the need to harm them for his own enjoyment and he is incapable of
grasping the pain and suffering he inflicts on them as a result (ie he
is psychotic, has no awareness of what he is doing). it is unlikely
that he can be 'rehabilitated, so for the safety of everyone else
inthe world he needs tobe removed from society for the greater good

bookie
April 24th 07, 01:49 PM
On 24 Apr, 03:17, sheelagh > wrote:
> On 24 Apr, 01:40, bookie > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > In fact, it was a 35 year old man who has been leaning out of his
> > > bedroom window for a couple of weeks( according to their neighbors who
> > > had already warned the police of his activities...?!!!), shooting
> > > anything that moves. Cats, people, birds, cars...Anything.
>
> > knowing what a bunch of useless a-holes the police tend to be over
> > here and how they will not lift a finger unless someone has already
> > been murdered or similar, I would just go and sort the guy out myself,
> > not wait for the fuzz to do anything, cos they won't, even if he were
> > targeting humans they won't until he hits someone. It's thoroughly
> > **** but that's the way it is.
>
> > now the thing is that if they made an example of this guy and threw
> > the book at him (slightly more possible now we know he is an 'adult')
> > then it may well put off other nutters and morons from spending their
> > spare time in a similarly deranged and murderous fashion and then we
> > will be able to let our kitties out safely. Unfortunately, this does
> > not tend to happen so vicious youths like this man will go out taking
> > pot shots at innocent animals, safe in the knowledge that nothing will
> > happen to them via the official channels (although believe me, if they
> > harm a hair on the heads of my cats they will ****ing well know about
> > it, i will not be leaving the matter solely inthe hands of police and
> > those other ineffectual agencies who do **** all and allow evil scum
> > to go free).
>
> > THAT is the problem really, the fact that these little turds know
> > they can get away with it, and so they will continue to do so and make
> > certain neighbourhoods unsafe for anyone, so the sooner they are
> > punished and removed the sooner the message that this kind of
> > antisocial and evil behaviour will nto be tolerated and it will cease
> > to be.
>
> > i am gettign angry again about the whole thing
>
> > bookie
>
> *************FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE LIGHTHEARTED, PLEASE DON'T READ
> THIS IF YOU ARE PLEASE CUZ I'M ANGRY************
>
> Oh Bookie...
> How many times have we discussed this issue?? We have gone over this
> one time and time again * I'm ****ing well sick of it*.. I can't
> remember how many times I have gone through the proper channels and
> done it all above board so that no one could say @ the end of it all,
> this woman did it the right way round & she got justice...
>
> well, that simply isn't true.. I could beat myself black and blue with
> anger right now. And just to put a finer point on the issue, I
> wouldn't be beating myself black and blue if they had bloody well done
> something, in fact ANY BLOODY Thing at all... I want to beat myself
> black and blue for being a ****ing moron and believing that there is a
> such as thing as justice and comeuppance for wasting ******s that call
> themselves policemen & women too..Well, you can start off by saying
> that it is an utter load of Bollux, because there ids no justice @
> all.. ...
>
> In fact, why the bloody hell did they pass that piece of ****ty
> legislation called the animals right act...? You tell me, cuz I can't
> think of one bloody reason @ all???
> The politicians go through the motions & pass the bloody thing so
> that the poor things have something to protect them & not one [email protected]
> policeman does a ****ing thing about it..Well you know what, there is
> only so wanking much you can take....##
> As far as I am concerned, why don't I go outside right now and start
> firing rounds out of Paul's dad's under & over 12bore and blast a hole
> right through the policeman's come fuzz useless ******'s door across
> the road?? The stupid cretin born piece of moron useless ****** does
> **** all anyway so why bother living? I bet that would wake the cretin
> up, wouldn't it????
>
> Do I really have to go round there and stick a 12 bore up his snout to
> make him realise that I am just as alive as he is & if he wants the
> same privilege of life as I, my family & my feline family do, then he
> ought to bloody well show me so..why the **** are they paying this
> ****** to have a permanent coffee break until he's 50 then giving him
> a golden handshake. These are my taxes we are talking about here..he
> knows damned well what Ringo went through & he also knows that Jack
> was shot the other day because i made it my business to tell him so
> cuz he is in the tactical firearms response unit, the useless
> prick...JUSTICE? WHAT JUSTICE???#[email protected]?
>
> I had to pay the bloody vet just under a 1000 for Ringo.. where the
> **** do I get that sort of money from do you think?
> I had to borrow it from my hard strapped mother, whilst little teddy
> down the roads father pays me in dribs and drabs...do you think my
> mother wants it back @ 40quid a week, or do you thin she might prefer
> it all in one lump sum as she should be entitled to. So far it has
> been a day late once.. but the hair that broke the camels back, just
> broke it..**** em...do it once more and I will take the **** back to
> court...
> The demented take the **** and wise take what they can so that we live
> on NOTHING.
> I get 12 a week for caring for Paul, but Mr sloballoveryou has
> private care in a nursing home @ a cost of over 600 smackers a week..
> WHAT ****ING JUSTICE?
>
> I have stopped Ross going out with a base ball bat & pleaded with him
> not to take that approach because I didnt want him to be the one who
> ended up in trouble AS PER USUAL in this **** hole of a welcome we-
> are British- so -come- and -rob our- welfare system- of -a -country-
> whilst- the- ones -who -have -worked- here- don't- get- a- pay- rise-
> big -enough- for- our- pensioners -to- even- buy- a- loaf- of bread- a
> -week **** hole....But NO WE MUST NOT SPEAK OUT ABOUT IT for fear of
> being RACIST..
> Well you know what? you don't have to b ****ing white or a honkey to
> take racism. our faces are shoved in the ******* every day..
> SERIOUSLY... I MEAN IT!! And I feel that I AM BEING ABUSED & OPRESSED
> BY RACISM TOO..I ASSUME THAT ANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO **REALLY KNOW ME,
> WILL ALSO KNOW THAT I AM NOT RACIST, I WAS RAISED IN THE BOWELS OF
> AFRICA..**** IT MAKES ME SO ANGRY..BTW..this fellow that stuck a slug
> in Jack happens to be czechoslovacian who apparently can't speak a
> word of English until he gets his giro from the department of works
> and pension every Tuesday.. which also happens to be for a man of no
> fixed abode so he gets even more money (YEAH RIGHT, & my name is bugs
> ****ing bunny)
>
> I CAN'T threaten any one specific, but I can tell you that I am a semi
> fortune teller, & I foretell that there wil be a very loud explosion
> on a village very nearby to me in the very near future. Ross has taken
> to carrying around snooker balls inside socks.. & I intend to ignore
> for the foreseeable future.
>
> Well, I am ****ed off with doing it the right way round because it
> hasn't paid us one single time to do it the **RIGHT WAY**..They simply
> can't be ****ing Arse holed to respond to a poor ******* cat death,
> much less a man & a toddler.. useless yellow bellied ****s..Nah, lets
> concentrate on what the Mrs is going to cost me this year to buy a
> frock for the annual policeman's Ball.. that Is by far, FAR more
> IMPORTANT pastime....It took the police over 3****ing hours to respond
> to a shooting incident.. hows that for" **** you, & up yours you have
> only been [email protected],. WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM????????? WASTERS scum of the
> earth"..
>
> Well, you know what, I am ashamed of being British. GREAT BRITAIN?????
> What is so ****ing great about it apart form the social service and
> benefit systems that are ripped off left right & centre by everyone
> except those that are rightly entitled to it?.. whilst the ****ing
> idiots who are British stand in line & also whilst Mrs Singh goes
> straight to the front of the Que and gets 5 x what I do because her
> uncle in Pakistan needs to come over and get his cataracts operated on
> whilst our local hospital down the road is due to be shut down for
> lack of funding and overuse by visitors to britain..Call me what you
> like, cuz I know it is the truth. you get my drift?
>
> I think it is time we decided to start our own style of neighborhood
> watch. Everyone on patrole should be given an air rifle for self
> defense & why not chuck a few of those taser guns in for good measure
> too? I am sure that they would be much a appreciated by the people who
> do more to protect us and our animals than the entire police force in
> the UK (I can't say great Britain cuz it makes my mouth taste like dog
> crap)
>
> IT IS TIME THAT ALL ANUIMAL ABUSERS ARE SENT TO ANIMAL RESEACH
> LABORATORIES TO TAKE THE PLACE OF THE PRIMATES THERE, CUZ THAT IS THE
> ONLY USE FOR THEM..WHY WASTE TAX PAYERS MONETY IN PRISONS KEEPING THEM?
> IF THE LABS DON'T WANT THEM, THEN PUT THEM TO SLEEP FOR EVER...
> IF MICHELLE GETS NO GOOD RESPONSE BY TOMORROW BUGGAR IT, I'M LETTING
> MY LADS OFF THE LEASH...
> .
> <SEETHING WITH ANGER & MISERY HERE>
> S.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

i agree with you entirely, every bloody word, ti seems that these days
the criminals get more ****ing rights than the victims of their crimes
and the police do **** all to protect the innocent. That is why if
someone started taking pot shot at animals round here i would not
waste my time and breath going to the police, i would just go round
there with a cricket bat and dish out my own justice, I'm not about
hanging around

bookie

sheelagh
April 24th 07, 06:24 PM
On 24 Apr, 14:14, chatnoir > wrote:
> On Apr 23, 7:02 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > On 23 Apr, 02:41, chatnoir > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 22, 6:01 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > > On 23 Apr, 00:12, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > > > "Lynne" > wrote in message
>
> > > > m...> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh >
> > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > >> She is *Gutted*..
>
> > > > > > Oh my god. I am horrified. I don't know what else to say. Sheelagh, I'm
> > > > > > so sorry.
>
> > > > > > I need to throw up.
>
> > > > > -----------
> > > > > I just also posted that I needed to throw up and that there was nothing more
> > > > > to say. Actually, there is something more thing to say: For anyone who was
> > > > > previously defending the law that allows juveniles to get off with a warning
> > > > > and emerge with a clean record.....The fact that these animals who killed
> > > > > Jack and the other cats also shot at *people,* including an18-month-old
> > > > > toddler says it all. I hope these *youths* are prosecuted to the full extent
> > > > > of the law, and they are put away for a long, long time, but the unfortunate
> > > > > fact is that I am convinced that people such as these will remain a danger
> > > > > to society for the rest of their lives, no matter how they are punished.
> > > > > Psychopaths always start out hurting and killing animals. There is something
> > > > > totally terrifying about someone who is so devoid of emotion, sympathy,
> > > > > morals etc that he can cold-bloodedly kill a dozen cats and shoot an air
> > > > > rifle at a toddler, who also could have been killed. And the fact that it
> > > > > wasn't just one *youth* but several *youths* acting together is also
> > > > > terrifying. In the USA, if they had killed a person, the charge would have
> > > > > been first-degree murder, and in the USA, a juvenile who commits murder is
> > > > > prosecuted as an adult.
>
> > > > > Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who
> > > > > managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and
> > > > > gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own
> > > > > blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's
> > > > > belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail
> > > > > every year...I think that's terrifying.
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > ---Cindy S.
> > > > > Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who
> > > > > managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and
> > > > > gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own
> > > > > blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's
> > > > > belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail
> > > > > every year...I think that's terrifying.
>
> > > > OMG, Really..?
>
> > > > That is dreadful. It is beyond my comprehension as to why we as tax
> > > > payers should have to pay to keep cretins like this alive. The
> > > > disgusting thought of killing an unborn child is worse than any other
> > > > crime that I can think of. Horrific in fact...Bring back Hanging, or
> > > > if we are too yellow bellied for that in the UK, the lethal injection
> > > > will do just fine....
>
> > > > When Ringo was shot, I felt anger that I didn't know was within
> > > > me..But that is nothing compared to what I feel today. as Bookie said,
> > > > I was hoping against hope that he was in some one's garden shed, or
> > > > even stolen.. But to be there when the police arrived to impart the
> > > > news that they thought they had found Jack & that they needed someone
> > > > to identify him then to take in the fact that they were aiming a
> > > > weapon @ an 18 month old child, pushed me past anger & sent me into a
> > > > rage I have ***never***experienced before....
>
> > > > Shooting @ a child HAS to be taken seriously. It **IS** ATTEMPED
> > > > MURDER. I really can't tale it all in right now. It feels like I am
> > > > hovering above myself watching it all unfold. I think the ultimate
> > > > question has to be **WHY** did they do it???
> > > > I would imagine that I feel the same way @ this very moment as you all
> > > > must have felt when you all heard about this Cho geyser. They are
> > > > beyond feeling is my only thought....
>
> > > > Right now, they really do disgust me. I am in constant touch with
> > > > Mummy ( Michelle) & will keep you all up to date with this as it
> > > > unfolds. I will push her every inch of the way, & be there for her
> > > > when she needs me too. this will not go unpunished, I assure you of
> > > > that.. Our poor darling cat Jack. We will stand up and be counted for
> > > > this crime..
> > > > S.
>
> > > Wow I guess this is a serious problem!:
>
> > >http://www.gun-control-network.org/A004.htm
>
> > > excerpt:
>
> > > 2. CAMPAIGNS - AIRGUNS
>
> > > There has been a large rise in the number of airguns used in crime
> > > over the past ten years. The figure for 1990 was 5,380 weapons
> > > whereas by 1999/00 it had risen to 10,103.
>
> > > GCN's submission to the Home Affairs Committee (HAC) highlighted the
> > > extent of the damage that airguns can cause to people, animals and
> > > property by preparing a list of incidents derived from two sources,
> > > reports from a national newspaper during the last five years and
> > > information given by MPs during debates and committee sessions (see
> > > list below).
>
> > > Lethality & registration:
>
> > > GCN was disappointed at the Government's response to the HAC report.
> > > Although all airguns are not going to be licensed, we hope that the
> > > definition of a 'lethal weapon' will be such as to require the
> > > certification of a large number of airguns that are not currently
> > > within the licensing system.
>
> > > Airgun incidents - examples from the press & MPs:
>
> > > Daily Telegraph
>
> > > 7 August 1998 Airgun boy cleared of intent over a shot girl. A 16
> > > year old teenager shot a 12 year old girl, Jasmine Proverbs, in the
> > > head while showing off a new 195 rifle fitted with telescopic sights
> > > and silencer. A bit of the pellet is still lodged in her brain. He
> > > had also shot Jasmine's brother in the leg the previous day.
>
> > > 11 November 1998 Air rifle attack on pupils. Four children and a
> > > dinner lady were hit by pellets fired from an air rifle at a
> > > playground of a Primary School. A 16 year old was arrested.
>
> > > 16 January 1999 Teenager shot in 'war game'. Richard Bryant, 13, was
> > > critically injured when a pellet fired from an airgun lodged in is
> > > skull. Four boys aged 11 to 14 were involved. A 14 year old was
> > > arrested.
>
> > > 13 July 1999 George Atkinson, 13, was fatally wounded after being hit
> > > by an airgun pellet in the garden of his aunt's house.
>
> > > Derby Evening Telegraph
>
> > > 28 August 2001 Cygnets shot in the head. Two young swans have been
> > > left with serious head injuries after being shot.... An RSPCA Inspector
> > > said 'Two people appear to have gone and deliberately used these swans
> > > as target practice with no regard to the suffering they must have gone
> > > through.'
>
> > > Ripley & Heanor News
>
> > > 20 September 2001 Teenager is shot in airgun incident. 15 year old
> > > Darren Harrison underwent emergency surgery on his stomach after being
> > > shot while walking along a public footpath. Surgeons were unable to
> > > remove the airgun pellet which wounded him. The police found evidence
> > > of target practice taking place on the path which runs between a wood
> > > and open fields.
>
> > > The Middlesbrough Gazette
>
> > > May 2001 Child killed. A Teeside child was killed on 3rd May 2001 by
> > > another child using its father's air rifle, prosecution pending.
>
> > > Examples given by MPs
>
> > > Mr Doug Henderson (Newcastle upon Tyne N). Standing Committee E. 21st
> > > November 1996. A 65 year old Aberdeenshire man died instantly after a
> > > pellet fired by a 17 year old taking pot-shots with his new airgun hit
> > > him after he stepped into the line of fire.
>
> > > Mr Gordon Prentice (Pendle) Standing Committee E. 21st November 1996.
> > > Residents on Leigh's biggest housing estate have had enough of teenage
> > > troublemakers who use waste bins for airgun practice even though young
> > > children are playing there.
>
> > > Dr Nick Palmer MP (Broxtowe) 21st January 1998. Reported that the Cat
> > > Protection League has estimated that every year 10,000 cats are killed
> > > or maimed.
>
> > > Jeff Ennis (Barnsley, East and Mexborough). Air Guns (Safety) 23rd
> > > June 1999. Adam Yoxall, aged 10, was hit in the eye by an airgun
> > > pellet while playing in a local wood. He lost the sight in is left
> > > eye
>
> > > A 12 year old boy was left in agony after being shot in the back by a
> > > sniper
>
> > >http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/95/....quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Yes CN, It has certainly struck me very close to home I assure you;o(
> > Also, thank you very much indeed for taking the time to research &
> > also for providing link that you did, for us. It got me thinking & I
> > set to work to see if there was an updated version of that link & I
> > found it. I will add a link into this post shortly. I also looked it
> > up in brader terms & I found a few other links too. I am going to post
> > them because they are very relevant to the group, but more so those
> > that live in the UK.
> > However, I am going to see if I can find anything that would be of
> > help to you all over the other side of the pond. Having said that, I
> > don't believe that you have such a big as we do with this problem as
> > we do, for 2 reasons.
>
> > 1) Most of you seem to keep you cats as indoor only pets, so that
> > knocks 50% of the problem right on the head...
>
> > 2) Your kids or adults don't need to use imitation style guns or even
> > air rifles, because you have access to the real thing. If someone has
> > a trigger happy mind, they can do the job properly & ensure that they
> > do shoot to kill. Here, they have to settle for second best. No one
> > with the sort of mentality I have just spoken about, would get a gun
> > licence here. The police would reject the request immediately. I don't
> > believe for one moment that he hasn't already met the wrong side of
> > the law @ 35 years old.. do you?
>
> > I am inclined to agree with both Cindy & Bookie's theory on the
> > subject..
> > It does start @ an early age & simply gets progressively worse, until
> > they are either stopped, or taken aside and put in jail, or a mental
> > institution.....
>
> > I am desperate to make sure that this one doesn't fall to the way side
> > @ all. I encouraged her to ring our local paper, email her Memeber of
> > Parliament( after all that is what he is there for...to take our
> > causes to parliament & present them!!)
> > Please don't anyone of you take this as an insult because I certainly
> > don't mean it to come across as one!!
>
> > Michelle has also called the Rspca, The Cat Protection League, her vet
> > & Wood Green Animal Shelter to alert them that there is a serious
> > threat to cats in her area & also to inform them that if they get any
> > shot cats in, that she believes she knows why and where the threat
> > lies too.
>
> > Here is an updated version of the brilliant link you so kindly
> > provided for us:
>
> >http://www.gun-control-network.org/INS0606.htm
>
> > This is another one showing the terrible injuries that occur when
> > idiotic psychotic maniacs get new * **TOYS***http://www.parkvets.com/petsandvets-airgun.html
>
> > And this one is about parliament & the updating of the gun laws too
> > (if I remember rightly - I did this earlier, saved it, then had to
> > hand over the PC to the kids for homework time).
>
> > Thank you for presenting the facts and the idea too
> > sheelagh
>
> They actually are doing this months incidents also!:
>
> http://www.gun-control-network.org/IN0407.htm

Thank you for pointing this out CN. I have reported both incident's to
them. The BB Gun shooting regarding Ringo & also the Air Rifle
incident where Jack was shot too. I have included all of the details
that I am able to & also the crime numbers as well so that they can
contact the police to verify the incidents with them.
S;o)

cindys
April 24th 07, 06:36 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...

snip
Thank you for pointing this out CN. I have reported both incident's to
them. The BB Gun shooting regarding Ringo & also the Air Rifle
incident where Jack was shot too. I have included all of the details
that I am able to & also the crime numbers as well so that they can
contact the police to verify the incidents with them.
S;o)
----------
Sheelagh! I have been looking for your posts all morning. How is Michelle
doing, and how is the case proceeding? Has the psycho been taken into
custody? He did, after all, use deadly force against humans, and that should
certainly be sufficient to get him arrested. I would think the newspapers
would be very interested to hear about this dangerous criminal who is not
only kidnapping and killing people's pets but has additionally aimed a rifle
at two people, including an 18-month-old toddler.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

sheelagh
April 24th 07, 07:41 PM
Thanks Bookie, but I know in my that I went overboard there....

It was in the very early hours in the morning when I posted that, & I
went too far.
I meant every single word of what I said regarding the laws that have
been passed to help animals, the new laws about baring arms and the
anti terrorist act. These laws were put into place so that the police
**DO** have the powers that they have been crowing about, because they
claimed that they couldn't do anything to help animals in distress.
Well now they have their laws that they asked for, & I haven't seen a
single incident in the media where they have been used by the police
for what they were intended for. It annoys me that after all of that
whinging for them, that they never seem to use them...

In fact, the **ONLY** people that seem to be making good use of them
are the RSPCA, & other organisations that do anything that they can to
protect all animals, not just cats. It is even more insulting to
realise that the police who **CAN** bring the laws to bare don't seem
bother doing so for whatever their reasons are, but the RSPCA, The
RSPCB, Cat Protection League, The wildlife programs and every other
body that tries to defend animals rights are the only ones that seem
to be making use of those laws at HUGE cost to their resources,
because No one else, will.

In moaning about racism, I did go too far. And if I offended anyone
for any reason, then I do apologies to you. What I said was not
intended to cause offence at all.. to anyone..I was merely stating how
most Brits feel in their own country.

However, the facts of what I tell you, are true in the UK..Most of the
people do feel that they have become second class citizens because of
their race and colour too. All of our laws are based on tolerance &
respect of other peoples culture and race which is correct & as it
should be. When I made this statement, I didn't make it clear that the
reason for our lack of tolerance, isn't so much based on the races
that live here. But, it is for the illegal immigrants that seem to be
milking our benefit systems, housing markets & jobs & pensions that
our forbearers worked so hard for, to provide for those less
fortunate, themselves, pensions in their old age, . Not to mention our
free hospital treatment, dentistry & optical care too..

I have great respect for **all races, creeds and colours** & their
different cultures, religions and beliefs, & even go out of my way to
learn about them. I simply find it offensive that we have so many
illegal immigrants here that have no respect for our country, how the
systems in place were designed and what their reasons are for . If
they went to the trouble of working & a little bit of citizenship,
then I would have no problem with any of them at all. I only find it
offensive when they come over to live here, & exist on our benefit
systems. I guess you could call it freeloaders..& no one likes a
freeloader, do they? I hope this clarifies what I meant to convey. I
have no excuse for what I said, other than grief, tiredness and
anxiety at the lack of interest the police seemed to show the poor
family who were shot @.NO OFFENCE WAS INTENDED.....

It does make me feel that I should take the laws into my own hands,
but inevitabley, you can rest assured that the perpetrator will be
compensated whilst the person affected by the original crime gets off
Scott free.. How much worse can it get? I have never agreed with
vigilante schemes in the past, but I am beginning to understand why
they have grown in popularity & numbers too. I can't condone it, but
in light of the interest that the police have shown, I do feel pity
for the animal owners who have been affected.

The only people that I truely feel are interested in their welfare are
the RSPCA. And because of this recent bad experience, It is them that
I would go to if I had a problem regarding an animals welfare, rather
than the police in the future. It is up to the them if they choose to
involve the law, because I have lost all faith in their response
regarding animal welfare.
S:o)

sheelagh
April 24th 07, 07:47 PM
On 24 Apr, 14:14, chatnoir > wrote:
> On Apr 23, 7:02 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 23 Apr, 02:41, chatnoir > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 22, 6:01 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > > On 23 Apr, 00:12, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > > > "Lynne" > wrote in message
>
> > > > m...> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh >
> > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > >> She is *Gutted*..
>
> > > > > > Oh my god. I am horrified. I don't know what else to say. Sheelagh, I'm
> > > > > > so sorry.
>
> > > > > > I need to throw up.
>
> > > > > -----------
> > > > > I just also posted that I needed to throw up and that there was nothing more
> > > > > to say. Actually, there is something more thing to say: For anyone who was
> > > > > previously defending the law that allows juveniles to get off with a warning
> > > > > and emerge with a clean record.....The fact that these animals who killed
> > > > > Jack and the other cats also shot at *people,* including an18-month-old
> > > > > toddler says it all. I hope these *youths* are prosecuted to the full extent
> > > > > of the law, and they are put away for a long, long time, but the unfortunate
> > > > > fact is that I am convinced that people such as these will remain a danger
> > > > > to society for the rest of their lives, no matter how they are punished.
> > > > > Psychopaths always start out hurting and killing animals. There is something
> > > > > totally terrifying about someone who is so devoid of emotion, sympathy,
> > > > > morals etc that he can cold-bloodedly kill a dozen cats and shoot an air
> > > > > rifle at a toddler, who also could have been killed. And the fact that it
> > > > > wasn't just one *youth* but several *youths* acting together is also
> > > > > terrifying. In the USA, if they had killed a person, the charge would have
> > > > > been first-degree murder, and in the USA, a juvenile who commits murder is
> > > > > prosecuted as an adult.
>
> > > > > Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who
> > > > > managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and
> > > > > gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own
> > > > > blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's
> > > > > belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail
> > > > > every year...I think that's terrifying.
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > ---Cindy S.
> > > > > Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who
> > > > > managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and
> > > > > gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own
> > > > > blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's
> > > > > belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail
> > > > > every year...I think that's terrifying.
>
> > > > OMG, Really..?
>
> > > > That is dreadful. It is beyond my comprehension as to why we as tax
> > > > payers should have to pay to keep cretins like this alive. The
> > > > disgusting thought of killing an unborn child is worse than any other
> > > > crime that I can think of. Horrific in fact...Bring back Hanging, or
> > > > if we are too yellow bellied for that in the UK, the lethal injection
> > > > will do just fine....
>
> > > > When Ringo was shot, I felt anger that I didn't know was within
> > > > me..But that is nothing compared to what I feel today. as Bookie said,
> > > > I was hoping against hope that he was in some one's garden shed, or
> > > > even stolen.. But to be there when the police arrived to impart the
> > > > news that they thought they had found Jack & that they needed someone
> > > > to identify him then to take in the fact that they were aiming a
> > > > weapon @ an 18 month old child, pushed me past anger & sent me into a
> > > > rage I have ***never***experienced before....
>
> > > > Shooting @ a child HAS to be taken seriously. It **IS** ATTEMPED
> > > > MURDER. I really can't tale it all in right now. It feels like I am
> > > > hovering above myself watching it all unfold. I think the ultimate
> > > > question has to be **WHY** did they do it???
> > > > I would imagine that I feel the same way @ this very moment as you all
> > > > must have felt when you all heard about this Cho geyser. They are
> > > > beyond feeling is my only thought....
>
> > > > Right now, they really do disgust me. I am in constant touch with
> > > > Mummy ( Michelle) & will keep you all up to date with this as it
> > > > unfolds. I will push her every inch of the way, & be there for her
> > > > when she needs me too. this will not go unpunished, I assure you of
> > > > that.. Our poor darling cat Jack. We will stand up and be counted for
> > > > this crime..
> > > > S.
>
> > > Wow I guess this is a serious problem!:
>
> > >http://www.gun-control-network.org/A004.htm
>
> > > excerpt:
>
> > > 2. CAMPAIGNS - AIRGUNS
>
> > > There has been a large rise in the number of airguns used in crime
> > > over the past ten years. The figure for 1990 was 5,380 weapons
> > > whereas by 1999/00 it had risen to 10,103.
>
> > > GCN's submission to the Home Affairs Committee (HAC) highlighted the
> > > extent of the damage that airguns can cause to people, animals and
> > > property by preparing a list of incidents derived from two sources,
> > > reports from a national newspaper during the last five years and
> > > information given by MPs during debates and committee sessions (see
> > > list below).
>
> > > Lethality & registration:
>
> > > GCN was disappointed at the Government's response to the HAC report.
> > > Although all airguns are not going to be licensed, we hope that the
> > > definition of a 'lethal weapon' will be such as to require the
> > > certification of a large number of airguns that are not currently
> > > within the licensing system.
>
> > > Airgun incidents - examples from the press & MPs:
>
> > > Daily Telegraph
>
> > > 7 August 1998 Airgun boy cleared of intent over a shot girl. A 16
> > > year old teenager shot a 12 year old girl, Jasmine Proverbs, in the
> > > head while showing off a new 195 rifle fitted with telescopic sights
> > > and silencer. A bit of the pellet is still lodged in her brain. He
> > > had also shot Jasmine's brother in the leg the previous day.
>
> > > 11 November 1998 Air rifle attack on pupils. Four children and a
> > > dinner lady were hit by pellets fired from an air rifle at a
> > > playground of a Primary School. A 16 year old was arrested.
>
> > > 16 January 1999 Teenager shot in 'war game'. Richard Bryant, 13, was
> > > critically injured when a pellet fired from an airgun lodged in is
> > > skull. Four boys aged 11 to 14 were involved. A 14 year old was
> > > arrested.
>
> > > 13 July 1999 George Atkinson, 13, was fatally wounded after being hit
> > > by an airgun pellet in the garden of his aunt's house.
>
> > > Derby Evening Telegraph
>
> > > 28 August 2001 Cygnets shot in the head. Two young swans have been
> > > left with serious head injuries after being shot.... An RSPCA Inspector
> > > said 'Two people appear to have gone and deliberately used these swans
> > > as target practice with no regard to the suffering they must have gone
> > > through.'
>
> > > Ripley & Heanor News
>
> > > 20 September 2001 Teenager is shot in airgun incident. 15 year old
> > > Darren Harrison underwent emergency surgery on his stomach after being
> > > shot while walking along a public footpath. Surgeons were unable to
> > > remove the airgun pellet which wounded him. The police found evidence
> > > of target practice taking place on the path which runs between a wood
> > > and open fields.
>
> > > The Middlesbrough Gazette
>
> > > May 2001 Child killed. A Teeside child was killed on 3rd May 2001 by
> > > another child using its father's air rifle, prosecution pending.
>
> > > Examples given by MPs
>
> > > Mr Doug Henderson (Newcastle upon Tyne N). Standing Committee E. 21st
> > > November 1996. A 65 year old Aberdeenshire man died instantly after a
> > > pellet fired by a 17 year old taking pot-shots with his new airgun hit
> > > him after he stepped into the line of fire.
>
> > > Mr Gordon Prentice (Pendle) Standing Committee E. 21st November 1996.
> > > Residents on Leigh's biggest housing estate have had enough of teenage
> > > troublemakers who use waste bins for airgun practice even though young
> > > children are playing there.
>
> > > Dr Nick Palmer MP (Broxtowe) 21st January 1998. Reported that the Cat
> > > Protection League has estimated that every year 10,000 cats are killed
> > > or maimed.
>
> > > Jeff Ennis (Barnsley, East and Mexborough). Air Guns (Safety) 23rd
> > > June 1999. Adam Yoxall, aged 10, was hit in the eye by an airgun
> > > pellet while playing in a local wood. He lost the sight in is left
> > > eye
>
> > > A 12 year old boy was left in agony after being shot in the back by a
> > > sniper
>
> > >http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/95/....quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Yes CN, It has certainly struck me very close to home I assure you;o(
> > Also, thank you very much indeed for taking the time to research &
> > also for providing link that you did, for us. It got me thinking & I
> > set to work to see if there was an updated version of that link & I
> > found it. I will add a link into this post shortly. I also looked it
> > up in brader terms & I found a few other links too. I am going to post
> > them because they are very relevant to the group, but more so those
> > that live in the UK.
> > However, I am going to see if I can find anything that would be of
> > help to you all over the other side of the pond. Having said that, I
> > don't believe that you have such a big as we do with this problem as
> > we do, for 2 reasons.
>
> > 1) Most of you seem to keep you cats as indoor only pets, so that
> > knocks 50% of the problem right on the head...
>
> > 2) Your kids or adults don't need to use imitation style guns or even
> > air rifles, because you have access to
>
> ...
>
> read more - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thank you very much for the information that you brought to my
attention. I have emailed them & given them all of the details
involved with both cats; Ringo & Jack, as well as the crime numbers
and every bit of detail that I could too. I am hoping that with this
information, they can contact the police and should be able to add
this information to their database so that others know what is
happening in this area as well. I now see this is a huge problem &
that everyone should be aware of what is happening everywhere,
sadly;o(

Thanks again,
S;o)

sheelagh
April 25th 07, 01:11 AM
On 24 Apr, 14:14, chatnoir > wrote:
> On Apr 23, 7:02 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > On 23 Apr, 02:41, chatnoir > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 22, 6:01 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > > On 23 Apr, 00:12, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > > > "Lynne" > wrote in message
>
> > > > m...> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh >
> > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > >> She is *Gutted*..
>
> > > > > > Oh my god. I am horrified. I don't know what else to say. Sheelagh, I'm
> > > > > > so sorry.
>
> > > > > > I need to throw up.
>
> > > > > -----------
> > > > > I just also posted that I needed to throw up and that there was nothing more
> > > > > to say. Actually, there is something more thing to say: For anyone who was
> > > > > previously defending the law that allows juveniles to get off with a warning
> > > > > and emerge with a clean record.....The fact that these animals who killed
> > > > > Jack and the other cats also shot at *people,* including an18-month-old
> > > > > toddler says it all. I hope these *youths* are prosecuted to the full extent
> > > > > of the law, and they are put away for a long, long time, but the unfortunate
> > > > > fact is that I am convinced that people such as these will remain a danger
> > > > > to society for the rest of their lives, no matter how they are punished.
> > > > > Psychopaths always start out hurting and killing animals. There is something
> > > > > totally terrifying about someone who is so devoid of emotion, sympathy,
> > > > > morals etc that he can cold-bloodedly kill a dozen cats and shoot an air
> > > > > rifle at a toddler, who also could have been killed. And the fact that it
> > > > > wasn't just one *youth* but several *youths* acting together is also
> > > > > terrifying. In the USA, if they had killed a person, the charge would have
> > > > > been first-degree murder, and in the USA, a juvenile who commits murder is
> > > > > prosecuted as an adult.
>
> > > > > Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who
> > > > > managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and
> > > > > gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own
> > > > > blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's
> > > > > belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail
> > > > > every year...I think that's terrifying.
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > ---Cindy S.
> > > > > Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who
> > > > > managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and
> > > > > gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own
> > > > > blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's
> > > > > belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail
> > > > > every year...I think that's terrifying.
>
> > > > OMG, Really..?
>
> > > > That is dreadful. It is beyond my comprehension as to why we as tax
> > > > payers should have to pay to keep cretins like this alive. The
> > > > disgusting thought of killing an unborn child is worse than any other
> > > > crime that I can think of. Horrific in fact...Bring back Hanging, or
> > > > if we are too yellow bellied for that in the UK, the lethal injection
> > > > will do just fine....
>
> > > > When Ringo was shot, I felt anger that I didn't know was within
> > > > me..But that is nothing compared to what I feel today. as Bookie said,
> > > > I was hoping against hope that he was in some one's garden shed, or
> > > > even stolen.. But to be there when the police arrived to impart the
> > > > news that they thought they had found Jack & that they needed someone
> > > > to identify him then to take in the fact that they were aiming a
> > > > weapon @ an 18 month old child, pushed me past anger & sent me into a
> > > > rage I have ***never***experienced before....
>
> > > > Shooting @ a child HAS to be taken seriously. It **IS** ATTEMPED
> > > > MURDER. I really can't tale it all in right now. It feels like I am
> > > > hovering above myself watching it all unfold. I think the ultimate
> > > > question has to be **WHY** did they do it???
> > > > I would imagine that I feel the same way @ this very moment as you all
> > > > must have felt when you all heard about this Cho geyser. They are
> > > > beyond feeling is my only thought....
>
> > > > Right now, they really do disgust me. I am in constant touch with
> > > > Mummy ( Michelle) & will keep you all up to date with this as it
> > > > unfolds. I will push her every inch of the way, & be there for her
> > > > when she needs me too. this will not go unpunished, I assure you of
> > > > that.. Our poor darling cat Jack. We will stand up and be counted for
> > > > this crime..
> > > > S.
>
> > > Wow I guess this is a serious problem!:
>
> > >http://www.gun-control-network.org/A004.htm
>
> > > excerpt:
>
> > > 2. CAMPAIGNS - AIRGUNS
>
> > > There has been a large rise in the number of airguns used in crime
> > > over the past ten years. The figure for 1990 was 5,380 weapons
> > > whereas by 1999/00 it had risen to 10,103.
>
> > > GCN's submission to the Home Affairs Committee (HAC) highlighted the
> > > extent of the damage that airguns can cause to people, animals and
> > > property by preparing a list of incidents derived from two sources,
> > > reports from a national newspaper during the last five years and
> > > information given by MPs during debates and committee sessions (see
> > > list below).
>
> > > Lethality & registration:
>
> > > GCN was disappointed at the Government's response to the HAC report.
> > > Although all airguns are not going to be licensed, we hope that the
> > > definition of a 'lethal weapon' will be such as to require the
> > > certification of a large number of airguns that are not currently
> > > within the licensing system.
>
> > > Airgun incidents - examples from the press & MPs:
>
> > > Daily Telegraph
>
> > > 7 August 1998 Airgun boy cleared of intent over a shot girl. A 16
> > > year old teenager shot a 12 year old girl, Jasmine Proverbs, in the
> > > head while showing off a new 195 rifle fitted with telescopic sights
> > > and silencer. A bit of the pellet is still lodged in her brain. He
> > > had also shot Jasmine's brother in the leg the previous day.
>
> > > 11 November 1998 Air rifle attack on pupils. Four children and a
> > > dinner lady were hit by pellets fired from an air rifle at a
> > > playground of a Primary School. A 16 year old was arrested.
>
> > > 16 January 1999 Teenager shot in 'war game'. Richard Bryant, 13, was
> > > critically injured when a pellet fired from an airgun lodged in is
> > > skull. Four boys aged 11 to 14 were involved. A 14 year old was
> > > arrested.
>
> > > 13 July 1999 George Atkinson, 13, was fatally wounded after being hit
> > > by an airgun pellet in the garden of his aunt's house.
>
> > > Derby Evening Telegraph
>
> > > 28 August 2001 Cygnets shot in the head. Two young swans have been
> > > left with serious head injuries after being shot.... An RSPCA Inspector
> > > said 'Two people appear to have gone and deliberately used these swans
> > > as target practice with no regard to the suffering they must have gone
> > > through.'
>
> > > Ripley & Heanor News
>
> > > 20 September 2001 Teenager is shot in airgun incident. 15 year old
> > > Darren Harrison underwent emergency surgery on his stomach after being
> > > shot while walking along a public footpath. Surgeons were unable to
> > > remove the airgun pellet which wounded him. The police found evidence
> > > of target practice taking place on the path which runs between a wood
> > > and open fields.
>
> > > The Middlesbrough Gazette
>
> > > May 2001 Child killed. A Teeside child was killed on 3rd May 2001 by
> > > another child using its father's air rifle, prosecution pending.
>
> > > Examples given by MPs
>
> > > Mr Doug Henderson (Newcastle upon Tyne N). Standing Committee E. 21st
> > > November 1996. A 65 year old Aberdeenshire man died instantly after a
> > > pellet fired by a 17 year old taking pot-shots with his new airgun hit
> > > him after he stepped into the line of fire.
>
> > > Mr Gordon Prentice (Pendle) Standing Committee E. 21st November 1996.
> > > Residents on Leigh'sbiggesthousing estate have had enough of teenage
> > > troublemakers who use waste bins for airgun practice even though young
> > > children are playing there.
>
> > > Dr Nick Palmer MP (Broxtowe) 21st January 1998. Reported that the Cat
> > > Protection League has estimated that every year 10,000 cats are killed
> > > or maimed.
>
> > > Jeff Ennis (Barnsley, East and Mexborough). Air Guns (Safety) 23rd
> > > June 1999. Adam Yoxall, aged 10, was hit in the eye by an airgun
> > > pellet while playing in a local wood. He lost the sight in is left
> > > eye
>
> > > A 12 year old boy was left in agony after being shot in the back by a
> > > sniper
>
> > >http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/95/....quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Yes CN, It has certainly struck me very close to home I assure you;o(
> > Also, thank you very much indeed for taking the time to research &
> > also for providing link that you did, for us. It got me thinking & I
> > set to work to see if there was an updated version of that link & I
> > found it. I will add a link into this post shortly. I also looked it
> > up in brader terms & I found a few other links too. I am going to post
> > them because they are very relevant to the group, but more so those
> > that live in the UK.
> > However, I am going to see if I can find anything that would be of
> > help to you all over the other side of the pond. Having said that, I
> > don't believe that you have such a big as we do with this problem as
> > we do, for 2 reasons.
>
> > 1) Most of you seem to keep you cats as indoor only pets, so that
> > knocks 50% of the problem right on the head...
>
> > 2) Your kids or adults don't need to use imitation style guns or even
> > air rifles, because you have access to the real thing. If someone has
> > a trigger happy mind, they can do the job properly & ensure that they
> > do shoot to kill. Here, they have to settle for second best. No one
> > with the sort of mentality I have just spoken about, would get a gun
> > licence here. The police would reject the request immediately. I don't
> > believe for one moment that he hasn't already met the wrong side of
> > the law @ 35 years old.. do you?
>
> > I am inclined to agree with both Cindy & Bookie's theory on the
> > subject..
> > It does start @ an early age & simply gets progressively worse, until
> > they are either stopped, or taken aside and put in jail, or a mental
> > institution.....
>
> > I am desperate to make sure that this one doesn't fall to the way side
> > @ all. I encouraged her to ring our local paper, email her Memeber of
> > Parliament( after all that is what he is there for...to take our
> > causes to parliament & present them!!)
> > Please don't anyone of you take this as an insult because I certainly
> > don't mean it to come across as one!!
>
> > Michelle has also called the Rspca, The Cat Protection League, her vet
> > & Wood Green Animal Shelter to alert them that there is a serious
> > threat to cats in her area & also to inform them that if they get any
> > shot cats in, that she believes she knows why and where the threat
> > lies too.
>
> > Here is an updated version of the brilliant link you so kindly
> > provided for us:
>
> >http://www.gun-control-network.org/INS0606.htm
>
> > This is another one showing the terrible injuries that occur when
> > idiotic psychotic maniacs get new * **TOYS***http://www.parkvets.com/petsandvets-airgun.html
>
> > And this one is about parliament & the updating of the gun laws too
> > (if I remember rightly - I did this earlier, saved it, then had to
> > hand over the PC to the kids for homework time).
>
> > Thank you for presenting the facts and the idea too
> > sheelagh
>
> They actually are doing this months incidents also!:
>
> http://www.gun-control-network.org/IN0407.htm

Thank you so much for giving me the update on this link CN. I have
emailed them with all of the details regarding both Ringo's shooting
with a BB Gun & also Jack's shooting too. I included all of the detail
that I had to offer as well as the crime numbers so that they could
check with the police and their data base to confirm what I told them,
so with any luck they should both be on this page as well quite
shortly.
S;o)

sheelagh
April 25th 07, 01:18 AM
On 24 Apr, 13:49, bookie > wrote:
> On 24 Apr, 03:17, sheelagh > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 24 Apr, 01:40, bookie > wrote:
>
> > > > In fact, it was a 35 year old man who has been leaning out of his
> > > > bedroom window for a couple of weeks( according to their neighbors who
> > > > had already warned the police of his activities...?!!!), shooting
> > > > anything that moves. Cats, people, birds, cars...Anything.
>
> > > knowing what a bunch of useless a-holes the police tend to be over
> > > here and how they will not lift a finger unless someone has already
> > > been murdered or similar, I would just go and sort the guy out myself,
> > > not wait for the fuzz to do anything, cos they won't, even if he were
> > > targetinghumansthey won't until he hits someone. It's thoroughly
> > > **** but that's the way it is.
>
> > > now the thing is that if they made an example of this guy and threw
> > > the book at him (slightly more possible now we know he is an 'adult')
> > > then it may well put off other nutters and morons from spending their
> > > spare time in a similarly deranged and murderous fashion and then we
> > > will be able to let our kitties out safely. Unfortunately, this does
> > > not tend to happen so vicious youths like this man will go out taking
> > > pot shots at innocent animals, safe in the knowledge that nothing will
> > > happen to them via the official channels (although believe me, if they
> > > harm a hair on the heads of my cats they will ****ing well know about
> > > it, i will not be leaving the matter solely inthe hands of police and
> > > those other ineffectual agencies who do **** all and allow evil scum
> > > to go free).
>
> > > THAT is the problem really, the fact that these little turds know
> > > they can get away with it, and so they will continue to do so and make
> > > certain neighbourhoods unsafe for anyone, so the sooner they are
> > > punished and removed the sooner the message that this kind of
> > > antisocial and evil behaviour will nto be tolerated and it will cease
> > > to be.
>
> > > i am gettign angry again about the whole thing
>
> > > bookie
>
> > *************FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE LIGHTHEARTED, PLEASE DON'T READ
> > THIS IF YOU ARE PLEASE CUZ I'M ANGRY************
>
> > Oh Bookie...
> > How many times have we discussed this issue?? We have gone over this
> > one time and time again * I'm ****ing well sick of it*.. I can't
> > remember how many times I have gone through the proper channels and
> > done it all above board so that no one could say @ the end of it all,
> > this woman did it the right way round & she got justice...
>
> > well, that simply isn't true.. I could beat myself black and blue with
> > anger right now. And just to put a finer point on the issue, I
> > wouldn't be beating myself black and blue if they had bloody well done
> > something, in fact ANY BLOODY Thing at all... I want to beat myself
> > black and blue for being a ****ing moron and believing that there is a
> > such as thing as justice and comeuppance for wasting ******s that call
> > themselves policemen & women too..Well, you can start off by saying
> > that it is an utter load of Bollux, because there ids no justice @
> > all.. ...
>
> > In fact, why the bloody hell did they pass that piece of ****ty
> > legislation called the animals right act...? You tell me, cuz I can't
> > think of one bloody reason @ all???
> > The politicians go through the motions & pass the bloody thing so
> > that the poor things have something to protect them & not one [email protected]
> > policeman does a ****ing thing about it..Well you know what, there is
> > only so wanking much you can take....##
> > As far as I am concerned, why don't I go outside right now and start
> > firing rounds out of Paul's dad's under & over 12bore and blast a hole
> > right through the policeman's come fuzz useless ******'s door across
> > the road?? The stupid cretin born piece of moron useless ****** does
> > **** all anyway so why bother living? I bet that would wake the cretin
> > up, wouldn't it????
>
> > Do I really have to go round there and stick a 12 bore up his snout to
> > make him realise that I am just as alive as he is & if he wants the
> > same privilege of life as I, my family & my feline family do, then he
> > ought to bloody well show me so..why the **** are they paying this
> > ****** to have a permanent coffee break until he's 50 then giving him
> > a golden handshake. These are my taxes we are talking about here..he
> > knows damned well what Ringo went through & he also knows that Jack
> > was shot the other day because i made it my business to tell him so
> > cuz he is in the tactical firearms response unit, the useless
> > prick...JUSTICE? WHAT JUSTICE???#[email protected]?
>
> > I had to pay the bloody vet just under a 1000 for Ringo.. where the
> > **** do I get that sort of money from do you think?
> > I had to borrow it from my hard strapped mother, whilst little teddy
> > down the roads father pays me in dribs and drabs...do you think my
> > mother wants it back @ 40quid a week, or do you thin she might prefer
> > it all in one lump sum as she should be entitled to. So far it has
> > been a day late once.. but the hair that broke the camels back, just
> > broke it..**** em...do it once more and I will take the **** back to
> > court...
> > The demented take the **** and wise take what they can so that we live
> > on NOTHING.
> > I get 12 a week for caring for Paul, but Mr sloballoveryou has
> > private care in a nursing home @ a cost of over 600 smackers a week..
> > WHAT ****ING JUSTICE?
>
> > I have stopped Ross going out with a base ball bat & pleaded with him
> > not to take that approach because I didnt want him to be the one who
> > ended up in trouble AS PER USUAL in this **** hole of a welcome we-
> > are British- so -come- and -rob our- welfare system- of -a -country-
> > whilst- the- ones -who -have -worked- here- don't- get- a- pay- rise-
> > big -enough- for- our- pensioners -to- even- buy- a- loaf- of bread- a
> > -week **** hole....But NO WE MUST NOT SPEAK OUT ABOUT IT for fear of
> > being RACIST..
> > Well you know what? you don't have to b ****ing white or a honkey to
> > take racism. our faces are shoved in the ******* every day..
> > SERIOUSLY... I MEAN IT!! And I feel that I AM BEING ABUSED & OPRESSED
> > BY RACISM TOO..I ASSUME THAT ANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO **REALLY KNOW ME,
> > WILL ALSO KNOW THAT I AM NOT RACIST, I WAS RAISED IN THE BOWELS OF
> > AFRICA..**** IT MAKES ME SO ANGRY..BTW..this fellow that stuck a slug
> > in Jack happens to be czechoslovacian who apparently can't speak a
> > word of English until he gets his giro from the department of works
> > and pension every Tuesday.. which also happens to be for a man of no
> > fixed abode so he gets even more money (YEAH RIGHT, & my name is bugs
> > ****ing bunny)
>
> > I CAN'T threaten any one specific, but I can tell you that I am a semi
> > fortune teller, & I foretell that there wil be a very loud explosion
> > on a village very nearby to me in the very near future. Ross has taken
> > to carrying around snooker balls inside socks.. & I intend to ignore
> > for the foreseeable future.
>
> > Well, I am ****ed off with doing it the right way round because it
> > hasn't paid us one single time to do it the **RIGHT WAY**..They simply
> > can't be ****ing Arse holed to respond to a poor ******* cat death,
> > much less a man & a toddler.. useless yellow bellied ****s..Nah, lets
> > concentrate on what the Mrs is going to cost me this year to buy a
> > frock for the annual policeman's Ball.. that Is by far, FAR more
> > IMPORTANT pastime....It took the police over 3****ing hours to respond
> > to a shooting incident.. hows that for" **** you, & up yours you have
> > only been [email protected],. WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM????????? WASTERS scum of the
> > earth"..
>
> > Well, you know what, I am ashamed of being British. GREAT BRITAIN?????
> > What is so ****ing great about it apart form the social service and
> > benefit systems that are ripped off left right & centre by everyone
> > except those that are rightly entitled to it?.. whilst the ****ing
> > idiots who are British stand in line & also whilst Mrs Singh goes
> > straight to the front of the Que and gets 5 x what I do because her
> > uncle in Pakistan needs to come over and get his cataracts operated on
> > whilst our local hospital down the road is due to be shut down for
> > lack of funding and overuse by visitors to britain..Call me what you
> > like, cuz I know it is the truth. you get my drift?
>
> > I think it is time we decided to start our own style of neighborhood
> > watch. Everyone on patrole should be given an air rifle for self
> > defense & why not chuck a few of those taser guns in for good measure
> > too? I am sure that they would be much a appreciated by the people who
> > do more to protect us and our animals than the entire police force in
> > the UK (I can't say great Britain cuz it makes my mouth taste like dog
> > crap)
>
> > IT IS TIME THAT ALL ANUIMAL ABUSERS ARE SENT TO ANIMAL RESEACH
> > LABORATORIES TO TAKE THE PLACE OF THE PRIMATES THERE, CUZ THAT IS THE
> > ONLY USE FOR THEM..WHY WASTE TAX PAYERS MONETY IN PRISONS KEEPING THEM?
> > IF THE LABS DON'T WANT THEM, THEN PUT THEM TO SLEEP FOR EVER...
> > IF MICHELLE GETS NO GOOD RESPONSE BY TOMORROW BUGGAR IT, I'M LETTING
> > MY LADS OFF THE LEASH...
> > .
> > <SEETHING WITH ANGER & MISERY HERE>
> > S.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> i agree with you entirely, every bloody word, ti seems that these days
> the criminals get more ****ing rights than the victims of their crimes
> and the police do **** all to protect the innocent. That is why if
> someone started taking pot shot at animals round here i would not
> waste my time and breath going to the police, i would just go round
> there with a cricket bat and dish out my own justice, I'm not about
> hanging around
>
> bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Thank you Bookie. However, I know that I went too far regarding
racism.

I Meant every single other word that I said except for that issue.
I was brought up to believe that every single creed colour & race are
all of god children & that to identify with one more than another is
wrong. Each has it's own culture & religion, & I respect that. I would
even go so far as to say that I feel that anyone who doesn't, is
wrong!

In my state of anger last night/early hours of this morning, I went
right overboard & on full pelt ahead without reasoning my argument.
For those of you that know me, you will also know that I have never
used language like that or expressed myself in that extreme
manner( trolls not included).. I admit to being overheated in an
argument & even being wrong on occasions.. but I always point out my
mistakes and hold my hand up to them too as I wish to here....

If I caused any offense to anyone at all regarding racism, then I
apologies unreservedly. What I said was wrong, & I should have just
sat back for a few moments and reread what I said without sending it.
Had I done so, I would rectified the mistakes there and then. I didn't
though & I am sorry to the group...

( I have actually posted already regarding this issue & it said that
my post was successful, but I don't see it here, so I will quickly run
through this again. With any luck it is just delayed and will appear
later, because I went into detail regarding the whys and what
fors.)...

I don't believe in racism. If it exists, it is because of ignorance...
I had a lot to say regarding people milking the the health system &
the benefits system that our forebears worked so hard to hand down to
our generation, & to provide for them when they reached old age too.

However, I committed to point out that the main culprits that do this,
are nearly ALL due to illegal Immigrants. The names that I used were
the 1st ones that sprang to mind, no other reason @ all. 99% of the
immigrants that come to this country legally, work incredibly hard to
provide for their families & the communities as a whole.. It is these
people to which I apologize to. They take citizenship seriously &
participate in full with our country. I have no such feelings towards
anyone of any race that abides by the same laws as we do..rather those
who take the resources meant for those that do deserve them. This is
WRONG.. nothing else. and if I implied otherwise, I am sorry.
What I should have pointed out & meant to, was that the people that
really get under my skin are those who don't bother with this process
& do come here simply for a better life & on other peoples money. No
one likes a free loader, & that was whom I was referring to. It really
does annoy me that the seem to get better rights than we do. We obey
the law, work with the system & yet it doesn't seem to make any
difference..& they (freeloaders) take billions of pounds a year to
support these freeloaders..money which could go towards supporting
organisations such as the RSPCA, RSPB & all of the other charities
that are there to protect animals rights.
In making this comparison, I was trying to point out that the police
are taking a back seat approach towards responding to calls for help,
especially regarding animal abuse.
The politicians made the laws that we asked them to, to ensure that
animals had rights & deserved the law to protect them from monsters
like this idiot who shot Jack the other night. Animals that were
clearly being abused & required the help of that law, but the police
seem to turn a blind eye towards as they did domestic arguments that
got out of hand and ended up causing & resulting in human deaths..This
is WRONG!!

The Police here seem to be ignoring the law that they were given so
that these animals would be protected, but the other night, Michelle
was treated as though she was making a huge fuss about nothing, after
all..It was only a cat!!!! The law was changed so that the Police
could protect animals, championed by by the citizens of our country
because it is what we felt was needed. But what is the point of giving
the police these powers if they are not going to act upon them? It is
the same with the new fire arms & the anti terrorist laws too. Not all
terrorists have Arabic names or wear middle east garb either.
Terrorists by their very nature can come from any culture & become
terrorists for their own reasons. One such example would be the IRA
(Independent republican army- the Irish), & they were just as deadly
as any middle eastern groups we have seen recently.....

What has this got to do with cats, you might ask me..???
My answer would be, "A Great Deal"...!!

This 35 year old man who shot Jack the other night might have simply
been using cats along with other poor animals, simply to gain
experience & better Target experience. He was given the opportunity to
by the police, to gain extra time in which to dispose of his gun, &
try to hide the evidence too.

How do we know that it is not his intention next week to shoot a
President of his country with whom he might have some grudge & might
be visiting the UK in the very near future?
We don't, do we ?

How would we ever find out, until it is far too late? We won't. The
anti terrorism laws were designed to confiscate weapons & hold
offenders that they felt might be a blight or a danger to citizens who
live here. They are there to protect us & ensure that psychotic idiots
don't get the opportunity to kill randomly as has happened in the USA
recently.(these are just examples).

I *might* have understood there lax attitude if it had been just the
shooting of Jack, but we are talking about a man who took pot shots at
the cats owner and his child the following morning, simply because he
showed the police where the shots came from.
How much danger do you need to put yourself in, simply to get the
police to listen to you seriously and take firm serious action against
the offender?

Surely you dont have to wait until there is a fatal wounding before
thinking " It might be an idea to take this fool's gun away from him"
to START WITH.. not wait to come back with a warrant to search the
premises, by that time, it could be far too late...??!!!!!

They have now, but that was far too late after many birds, cats, cars
and people were shot at. It gets worse. the police were notified about
this 3 days prior to Jack's death, by his immediate neighbors, but the
police did exactly..NOTHING.. This could have been avoided, & that is
why I am so angry;o(

In my state of anger last night, I didn't state this clearly as I
might have done if I had hadn't been so tiered and disillusioned with
the Police here. It is no excuse, but is the truth as I see it. I hope
I have made myself a little clearer now & that you accept my apologies
for not expressing myself clearly....

Once again, apologies to anyone who might have felt offended by my
post & also to the group too.
S;o)

sheelagh
April 25th 07, 03:28 AM
On 22 Apr, 20:21, chatnoir > wrote:
> sheelagh wrote:
> > Last night I had just sat down when I noticed that my mobile phone had
> > multiple messages waiting for me to read. I picked it up & opened the
> > messages that I could see were from a friend who had one of Belle's
> > kittens out of her summer litter last year ,& started to read them in
> > the order in which they arrived. As I started to read them, I could
> > feel my blood almost congealing in my arteries.....
>
> > The message read, " Jack has gone missing. The last time we saw him
> > was on Friday evening at 6 pm.. Do you think he will come back"......
>
> > The second message read, "still nothing".....
>
> > The third one read, "He's gone.. I can't believe or accept it".....
>
> > Even though it was 11.20pm, I called her because I knew she wouldn't
> > be able to sleep whilst he was still missing. She picked up
> > immediately & I asked what had happened:
> > On Friday evening, she was just seeing her son off as he went to stay
> > with his grand parents, & he was on the wall of the front garden. He
> > didn't come in as usual at around 8pm, so she started to call and look
> > for him. She searched the garden, the neighbors garden, the near
> > vicinity to the house, all the garages, & then got into the car and
> > started to search the village for him. She drove around for 3 hours
> > just calling him whilst her partner remained @ home in the slim chance
> > that he showed up there.....
>
> > Overnight they left the back door open and also the patio door too in
> > the hope that he just got caught up in cat company or locked into
> > someones shed or suchlike.. Nothing!
> > He hasn't been seen since....
>
> > By yesterday morning, they went searching in day light & posted fliers
> > through the entire estates doors in the hope that possibly someone
> > else had seen him. They put a notice in the news agents window, where
> > she noticed that she wasn't the only cat owner to have lost her
> > cat;there were 3 other missing cats in there too. The next stop was
> > the vet surgery, where she also noticed that there were **Many Other
> > cats missing** as well. There 12 cats in total missing in total if you
> > added all the cats together... ..;o( ALL of these cats went missing in
> > between Thursday night & Friday night, so things do not look very
> > hopeful at all.....
>
> > Not all of them are pedigree cats;there are 4 pedigree's & the other 8
> > are just normal everyday cats. Jack is a blue point Ragdoll, there
> > were 2 Persian cats and a birman also. The vet encouraged her to ring
> > the police, & I told her to try the shelters, the council (they pick
> > dead cats up here, that have either been run over, or found dead), &
> > all of the obvious charities such as the RSPCA, Cat Protection The
> > Ragdoll Rescue line. Not a single one of them have any news to impart.
> > Things are looking very grim here & I don't hold out much hope for her
> > either. It is so tragic too...
>
> > She loved that cat silly as we did. He was just under a year old ,
> > neutered & chipped.. but that doesn't mean a figs difference when
> > someone picks up your cat & simply clears off with it. I hate to think
> > who has taken him or what might have happened to him either.
>
> > Cyber, you had a very good point when you said that there are unseen
> > dangers. You never think of the biggest predator of all, THE HUMAN
> > BEING.
>
> > I am devastated for her & feel sick when I think of what might have
> > happened to him. Yet another reason to consider keeping your cats safe
> > indoors.!! The biggest shame is that he wasn't allowed out of the
> > garden normally. she only took her eye off him, & this is the
> > result..it's sickening;o(
>
> > Sheelagh
>
> That is a tragedy! People who find friendly cats will take them for
> themselves! I suspect that they could not raise one themselve! Dogs
> are a big problem!
>
> Actually and outdoor enclosed cage has worked for me! Think I have
> worked out all the breach possiblilities! Except a tree falling down
> maybe!:
>
> http://wolfbat359.com/catcage.html
>
> http://wolfbat359.com/catcomput.html
>
> http://wolfbat359.com/Catty.html
>
> Poncho Villa still seeks the way out!:
>
> http://wolfbat359.com/Catty031.jpg- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Wonderful ..I am so envious CN, it looks like the Purrrrfect habitat
for any cat.

I would love to do something like this for our feline family. May I
come back to you for advise on this one please?
Thanks,
Sheelagh

sheelagh
April 27th 07, 06:24 PM
On 24 Apr, 18:36, "cindys" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> snip
> Thank you for pointing this out CN. I have reported both incident's to
> them. The BB Gun shooting regarding Ringo & also the Air Rifle
> incident where Jack was shot too. I have included all of the details
> that I am able to & also the crime numbers as well so that they can
> contact the police to verify the incidents with them.
> S;o)
> ----------
> Sheelagh! I have been looking for your posts all morning. How is Michelle
> doing, and how is the case proceeding? Has the psycho been taken into
> custody? He did, after all, use deadly force againsthumans, and that should
> certainly be sufficient to get him arrested. I would think the newspapers
> would be very interested to hear about this dangerous criminal who is not
> only kidnapping and killing people's pets but has additionally aimed a rifle
> at two people, including an 18-month-old toddler.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.



(if I think my conection is about to go, then I will snd as much as I
can, then try and conect to the internet agaib & carry one, ok? we
have a problem with the conection @ the mo, & it's doing my nut in :o(

Gosh, so much to tell you.
The guy was arrested & also charged with 3 seperate charges. I have a
feeling that this one will go to crown court because it is classed as
a so serious offence that we think that the magistrates court will
throw it straight out of their duristriction.

He has been charged with shooting a gun within so many yards of the
highway, shooting birds, & also concealing the evidence....
If the police had gone into the house when they were asked to come out
istead of 3hours after the event, then they would ahve found all of
the evidence before they had a chance to get shot of it!! I am angry
about that, but there you have it!
By the time the police got back with a warrent to search the house and
grounds, all that they found was a slightly more powerf

bookie
April 27th 07, 06:55 PM
On 27 Apr, 18:24, sheelagh > wrote:
> On 24 Apr, 18:36, "cindys" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > snip
> > Thank you for pointing this out CN. I have reported both incident's to
> > them. The BB Gun shooting regarding Ringo & also the Air Rifle
> > incident where Jack was shot too. I have included all of the details
> > that I am able to & also the crime numbers as well so that they can
> > contact the police to verify the incidents with them.
> > S;o)
> > ----------
> > Sheelagh! I have been looking for your posts all morning. How is Michelle
> > doing, and how is the case proceeding? Has the psycho been taken into
> > custody? He did, after all, use deadly force againsthumans, and that should
> > certainly be sufficient to get him arrested. I would think the newspapers
> > would be very interested to hear about this dangerous criminal who is not
> > only kidnapping and killing people's pets but has additionally aimed a rifle
> > at two people, including an 18-month-old toddler.
> > Best regards,
> > ---Cindy S.
>
> (if I think my conection is about to go, then I will snd as much as I
> can, then try and conect to the internet agaib & carry one, ok? we
> have a problem with the conection @ the mo, & it's doing my nut in :o(
>
> Gosh, so much to tell you.
> The guy was arrested & also charged with 3 seperate charges. I have a
> feeling that this one will go to crown court because it is classed as
> a so serious offence that we think that the magistrates court will
> throw it straight out of their duristriction.
>
> He has been charged with shooting a gun within so many yards of the
> highway, shooting birds, & also concealing the evidence....
> If the police had gone into the house when they were asked to come out
> istead of 3hours after the event, then they would ahve found all of
> the evidence before they had a chance to get shot of it!! I am angry
> about that, but there you have it!
> By the time the police got back with a warrent to search the house and
> grounds, all that they found was a slightly more powerf- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

your connection seems to have gone, but YAY YAY YAY!, lets hope they
throw the ****gin book at the ****!!!! let us know more when you get
back online

bookie

sheelagh
April 27th 07, 07:04 PM
On 24 Apr, 18:36, "cindys" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> snip
> Thank you for pointing this out CN. I have reported both incident's to
> them. The BB Gun shooting regarding Ringo & also the Air Rifle
> incident where Jack was shot too. I have included all of the details
> that I am able to & also the crime numbers as well so that they can
> contact the police to verify the incidents with them.
> S;o)
> ----------
> Sheelagh! I have been looking for your posts all morning. How is Michelle
> doing, and how is the case proceeding? Has the psycho been taken into
> custody? He did, after all, use deadly force againsthumans, and that should
> certainly be sufficient to get him arrested. I would think the newspapers
> would be very interested to hear about this dangerous criminal who is not
> only kidnapping and killing people's pets but has additionally aimed a rifle
> at two people, including an 18-month-old toddler.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.

If the police had gone in to the house when they arrived the 1st time,
then they would have found all the evidence they needed to lock him up
& throw away the key too. All they found was 3 birds;2woodpidgeons and
a raven, a slightly more powerful gun than a BB gun &no ammunition at
all.

It is our belief that the had all the time that he needed to get rid
of the rifle that he was using as well as the ammunition too. All the
police were able to get was a statement the following day saying that
he had been seen using a gun to shoot @ birds with & cars too. the
only good bit in the statement was the fact that the gun they were
shown was nothing like the gun they saw him using @ the time. The
other point worth mentioning is that the gun they found him with would
have been impossible to reach the road with if her was firing from his
property, so it is more than obvious that he did conceal a weapon of
some sort because of the cats that they found him trying to bury & the
birds found too. they had different pellets in them than they should
have done with the gun he professed to be using..

He denied shooting @ both Ivan(jack's daddy & Thomas, their child). He
also denied that he shot the cats, & professed that he was burying
them out of fear of being accused of shooting them too..yeah
right(NOT!!)..But he did admit to sedating the Birds which on its own
is worth a 1000 fine!! Not enough, but a good start..

I hear that he had a really hard time getting bail (Bond?) because the
police feared that he might leave the country, so they took his
passport off him..Good Job, is all that I say about that! He also has
to report to a police station every 48 hours so that even if he try'ss
doing a runner, they would find out very soon afterwards...;we were
hoping that he would be denied bail.. such a pity;all they did was
keep him overnight so that he appeared in front of the judge the fol
owing morning. I didn't attend the hearing, but Ivan did & was able to
tell us the conditions attached to it.

If they had only gone straight into the house the first time round
sighting the anti terrorism act, & the new animal act, they would have
caught him with the gun he "must have had", the ammunition her was
using and everything that he had shot as well. It makes me angry just
thinking about it ..these laws were made for that reason.. so that
they could go straight in if there was a chance that there was a rogue
firearm, to protect the public in general. For all we know he could be
a terrorist;not all terrorists are clothed in middle eastern garb &
have Muslim names..In fact on the contrary, most of them don't!! I
think too many people assume just that in fact!
The more I think about it, the angrier I get. Lets face it, he might
have been target practising for that very reason.. & now, we will
never know because of that initial error on their behalf.
I am going to try and add a link to a site that shows you the
punishments that out courts are able to inflict/ hand down, for anyone
so stupid as to try shooting anything at all without proper permission
or licence...

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/95/9508.htm


I have only just realised that all I have to do is prepare what I wish
to say off line, then copy and paste it to the bottom of the page that
I wish to reply to.. what a dimwitt!! Still, I live and learn every
day...
Michelle, Jack's mummy is destroyed. Nothing will ever bring him back,
& she is determined to follow this case through & see this man put
behind bars for as many years as she can as a tribute to him. I am
certain that she will never truely get over this incident, the same as
the rest of us fell when we loose our precious cats. she blames
herself &will never have another cat until she has a decent cat run
installed ready and waiting for when her kitten or cat comes
home...She has been considering taking on a an older Ragdoll from the
Ragdoll rescue line. I think this would be an excellent idea
personally....


http://www.parkvets.com/petsandvets-airgun.html

I truely do feel so sorry for her. After the event, there is no point
in blaming her for what happened. It is done now and I see little
point in berating her

More later as visitors have just turned up.....
I have passed on all of your messages of sympathy & she appreciates
them no end. She also wishes to thank you all for support and will
join us on here in time...
Thanks from me too.
S..

bookie
April 28th 07, 12:22 AM
On 27 Apr, 19:04, sheelagh > wrote:
>
anyway who blames her for jacks awful demise or holds her responsible
is an arsehole, simple. I can quite understand that in this country
she woudl allow her cats to go outside and the last thing she would
expect would be some nutcase taking potshots at animals from his
bedroom window at anything that moves, it just does not happen inthis
country, that is a very rare thing for us, we normally consider our
country to be safe for our kids and our animals to live in and enjoy
without such dangers lurking and so do nto normally see the reason to
keep our pets inside as people in other countries do.

i really hope that they can lock this nutter away or deport him or
something, heis obviously psychologically unhinged to have done what
he did and for this reason alone shoudl be locked up away from
innocent people and animals.

have you or anyone else made a complaint to the police board about the
slackness of the plolice to respond to the reports of some nutter
shooting at passersby? i think it is appaling that they took hours to
respond to the call, the guy coudl have killed a number of people in
the time it took for them to get to him, pathetic effort. You are
right aboutthe terrorism thing, who knows what he was up to , he may
have been part of some organisation opr something and not just some
lone nutter, but the police obviously decided to take the chance that
he wasn't part oif a terrorist group and they gambled with people's
lives. Yes you or someone shoud make a complaint abou tthis cos that
is not on.

hopefully michelle will adopt a rescue ragdoll, jack may have lost his
little life but she coudl know channel her energy and grief into
giving a new lease of life to an older cat who really needs her love
and a home.

i hate being far away and helpless about this, i wish there was
somethign I could do.

bookie

sheelagh
April 28th 07, 01:39 AM
On 28 Apr, 00:22, bookie > wrote:
> On 27 Apr, 19:04, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> anyway who blames her for jacks awful demise or holds her responsible
> is an arsehole, simple. I can quite understand that in this country
> she woudl allow her cats to go outside and the last thing she would
> expect would be some nutcase taking potshots at animals from his
> bedroom window at anything that moves, it just does not happen inthis
> country, that is a very rare thing for us, we normally consider our
> country to be safe for our kids and our animals to live in and enjoy
> without such dangers lurking and so do nto normally see the reason to
> keep our pets inside as people in other countries do.
>
> i really hope that they can lock this nutter away or deport him or
> something, heis obviously psychologically unhinged to have done what
> he did and for this reason alone shoudl be locked up away from
> innocent people and animals.
>
> have you or anyone else made a complaint to the police board about the
> slackness of the plolice to respond to the reports of some nutter
> shooting at passersby? i think it is appaling that they took hours to
> respond to the call, the guy coudl have killed a number of people in
> the time it took for them to get to him, pathetic effort. You are
> right aboutthe terrorism thing, who knows what he was up to , he may
> have been part of some organisation opr something and not just some
> lone nutter, but the police obviously decided to take the chance that
> he wasn't part oif a terrorist group and they gambled with people's
> lives. Yes you or someone shoud make a complaint abou tthis cos that
> is not on.
>
> hopefully michelle will adopt a rescue ragdoll, jack may have lost his
> little life but she coudl know channel her energy and grief into
> giving a new lease of life to an older cat who really needs her love
> and a home.
>
> i hate being far away and helpless about this, i wish there was
> somethign I could do.
>
> bookie

I forwarded some of the posts on here to her. I think she was
comforted to know that others didn't blame her entirely. And, I think
she has done a brilliant job of that all on her own..( blaming
herself)....Poor girl, I really do feel for her...
It is terribly hard to explain to anyone that doesn't live here, how
very abnormal it is to keep your cat indoors unless there is a
particular reason for doing so, such as HUGE risk or Pedigree cats
that someone might be inclined to steal. Although he was one, there
was no reason to think anyone would pinch him from his own garden. On
this occasion, she did take her eye off the ball but then again, we
all do @ times I guess...
All of us has written to the Police to complain about the response
time & the fact that they had the powers to go in to that house and
seize the ammunition, but failed to do so. Taking his passport after
the event, really just isn't good enough. I pointed out the same
argument regarding his possibility of being a terrorist and it being
far too late after the event, & the others have done it through their
outlook on the event. I have done the newspapers, the local radio
station ( who have covered the story too BTW;o)..
I am rather hoping that she will go to Ragdoll rescue because she has
the love to offer & 99% of them are all used to being indoor or ex
breeding cats that simply need love and attention which she has an
abundance of to share. I'm not sure that she is quite ready yet though
( & whop could blame her there?)
The run arrives on Tuesday & I'm sure she will think carefully before
accepting another cat again .I would encourage her to in this instance
because she has a lot of love to devote and is one of those really
genuine people ( all to rare these days) who would offer a cat of any
sort or type, the perfect home and love too..
More news when we have it...
S;o)

Lis
April 28th 07, 11:13 AM
On Apr 27, 2:04 pm, sheelagh > wrote:

<snip>

> Michelle, Jack's mummy is destroyed. Nothing will ever bring him back,
> & she is determined to follow this case through & see this man put
> behind bars for as many years as she can as a tribute to him. I am
> certain that she will never truely get over this incident, the same as
> the rest of us fell when we loose our precious cats. she blames
> herself &will never have another cat until she has a decent cat run
> installed ready and waiting for when her kitten or cat comes
> home...She has been considering taking on a an older Ragdoll from the
> Ragdoll rescue line. I think this would be an excellent idea
> personally....
>
> http://www.parkvets.com/petsandvets-airgun.html
>
> I truely do feel so sorry for her. After the event, there is no point
> in blaming her for what happened. It is done now and I see little
> point in berating her
>
> More later as visitors have just turned up.....
> I have passed on all of your messages of sympathy & she appreciates
> them no end. She also wishes to thank you all for support and will
> join us on here in time...
> Thanks from me too.
> S..

Tell her that over here, where it's much, much more common to keep
cats indoors, there are still loving, responsible cat owners who make
the same mistake, even though we have a much longer list of reasons to
keep the cats inside. (Fishers, coyotes, bobcats, etc.) Without all
the wildlife dangers, it must seem much more natural to let your cats
out. And inside or outside, EVERYONE will have occasional moments
when their attention slips. Parents of toddlers have known for
millenia that no, it's NOT possible to watch them every single second,
and something can happen during those seconds of inattention. It's the
same with our pets. No one else should blame her, and she should leave
off blaming herself, rather than the sicko, as quickly as she can
manage.

Lis

sheelagh
April 28th 07, 02:13 PM
On 28 Apr, 11:13, Lis > wrote:
> On Apr 27, 2:04 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Michelle, Jack's mummy is destroyed. Nothing will ever bring him back,
> > & she is determined to follow this case through & see this man put
> > behind bars for as many years as she can as a tribute to him. I am
> > certain that she will never truely get over this incident, the same as
> > the rest of us fell when we loose our precious cats. she blames
> > herself &will never have another cat until she has a decent cat run
> > installed ready and waiting for when her kitten or cat comes
> > home...She has been considering taking on a an older Ragdoll from the
> > Ragdoll rescue line. I think this would be an excellent idea
> > personally....
>
> >http://www.parkvets.com/petsandvets-airgun.html
>
> > I truely do feel so sorry for her. After the event, there is no point
> > in blaming her for what happened. It is done now and I see little
> > point in berating her
>
> > More later as visitors have just turned up.....
> > I have passed on all of your messages of sympathy & she appreciates
> > them no end. She also wishes to thank you all for support and will
> > join us on here in time...
> > Thanks from me too.
> > S..
>
> Tell her that over here, where it's much, much more common to keep
> cats indoors, there are still loving, responsible cat owners who make
> the same mistake, even though we have a much longer list of reasons to
> keep the cats inside. (Fishers, coyotes, bobcats, etc.) Without all
> the wildlife dangers, it must seem much more natural to let your cats
> out. And inside or outside, EVERYONE will have occasional moments
> when their attention slips. Parents of toddlers have known for
> millenia that no, it's NOT possible to watch them every single second,
> and something can happen during those seconds of inattention. It's the
> same with our pets. No one else should blame her, and she should leave
> off blaming herself, rather than the sicko, as quickly as she can
> manage.
>
> Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I have spoken to her this morning & we discussed the pictures that
others have posted here. I have sent links over to her to see what is
possible should she choose to build one. Anyway, in IMHO, that is
half the fun of it. Making a pleasurable place for both cats and
slaves has to be a good thing & benefits all. I think she is coming to
terms with it all, but will always miss him terribly as we all do when
one of our faithful friend crosses the bridge. It is only herself that
blames her, as anyone would if they had a child and this happened. I
too hope they lock the idiot up for a few years and loose the key as
well!!
S;o)

bookie
April 28th 07, 05:22 PM
>
> I forwarded some of the posts on here to her. I think she was
> comforted to know that others didn't blame her entirely.

noone should be blaming her AT ALL, it was not her fault in any way as
far as I am concerned, how was she to blame for some nutcase choosing
to open fire on any innocent creature within sight? she allowed her
cat outside under her supervision in an area where she believed (from
past experience) that he woudl be safe from any harm, she did nothing
wrong at all. To blame her at all would be like blaming a parent whose
kid gets snatched from a local playground by some paedophile for not
locking their kid up 24 hours a day, or how about about blaming
someone who gets knocked over and killed whilst walking along the
pavement (sidewalk) by some drunk ****** in a stolen car who is going
at 80mph, loses control of the car and leaves the road and mounts the
path? or how about a rape victim who is attacked in the middle of the
afternoon and dragged into bushes while walking along a quiet suburban
street? that to me is about the same and noone would think of blaming
them for what may happen to them. If anyone blames her for what
happened is obviously a cretin and their opinion is not worth worrying
about.

And, I think
> she has done a brilliant job of that all on her own..( blaming
> herself)....Poor girl, I really do feel for her...
> It is terribly hard to explain to anyone that doesn't live here, how
> very abnormal it is to keep your cat indoors unless there is a
> particular reason for doing so, such as HUGE risk or Pedigree cats
> that someone might be inclined to steal. Although he was one, there
> was no reason to think anyone would pinch him from his own garden. On
> this occasion, she did take her eye off the ball but then again, we
> all do @ times I guess...
> All of us has written to the Police to complain about the response
> time & the fact that they had the powers to go in to that house and
> seize the ammunition, but failed to do so. Taking his passport after
> the event, really just isn't good enough. I pointed out the same
> argument regarding his possibility of being a terrorist and it being
> far too late after the event, & the others have done it through their
> outlook on the event. I have done the newspapers, the local radio
> station ( who have covered the story too BTW;o)..

good i was hoping you would write to the local apers and kick up a
stink about it, the police may ignore your letter to them but they
won't be able to ignore such bad press.
bunch of ******s, if anyone is to blame for what happened to jack it
is the police and not your friend

bookie

Lilly's Mum
April 28th 07, 06:04 PM
On 28 Apr, 17:22, bookie > wrote:
> > I forwarded some of the posts on here to her. I think she was
> > comforted to know that others didn't blame her entirely.
>
> noone should be blaming her AT ALL, it was not her fault in any way as
> far as I am concerned, how was she to blame for some nutcase choosing
> to open fire on any innocent creature within sight? she allowed her
> cat outside under her supervision in an area where she believed (from
> past experience) that he woudl be safe from any harm, she did nothing
> wrong at all. To blame her at all would be like blaming a parent whose
> kid gets snatched from a local playground by some paedophile for not
> locking their kid up 24 hours a day, or how about about blaming
> someone who gets knocked over and killed whilst walking along the
> pavement (sidewalk) by some drunk ****** in a stolen car who is going
> at 80mph, loses control of the car and leaves the road and mounts the
> path? or how about a rape victim who is attacked in the middle of the
> afternoon and dragged into bushes while walking along a quiet suburban
> street? that to me is about the same and noone would think of blaming
> them for what may happen to them. If anyone blames her for what
> happened is obviously a cretin and their opinion is not worth worrying
> about.
>
> And, I think
>
>
>
>
>
> > she has done a brilliant job of that all on her own..( blaming
> > herself)....Poor girl, I really do feel for her...
> > It is terribly hard to explain to anyone that doesn't live here, how
> > very abnormal it is to keep your cat indoors unless there is a
> > particular reason for doing so, such as HUGE risk or Pedigree cats
> > that someone might be inclined to steal. Although he was one, there
> > was no reason to think anyone would pinch him from his own garden. On
> > this occasion, she did take her eye off the ball but then again, we
> > all do @ times I guess...
> > All of us has written to the Police to complain about the response
> > time & the fact that they had the powers to go in to that house and
> > seize the ammunition, but failed to do so. Taking his passport after
> > the event, really just isn't good enough. I pointed out the same
> > argument regarding his possibility of being a terrorist and it being
> > far too late after the event, & the others have done it through their
> > outlook on the event. I have done the newspapers, the local radio
> > station ( who have covered the story too BTW;o)..
>
> good i was hoping you would write to the local apers and kick up a
> stink about it, the police may ignore your letter to them but they
> won't be able to ignore such bad press.
> bunch of ******s, if anyone is to blame for what happened to jack it
> is the police and not your friend
>
> bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I certainly don't blame her. I can't see why any one would Bookie.
**** happens & this is just that...
I wonder if the Police can Ignore a complain that is sent to the
police complaints commission?

I really don't think that they can, can they?

Another thought. I have passed on all this info to the Cat Protection
League & also the RSPCA too. Can the Police ignore them?

It is such a shame that the RSPCA end up having to take these cases on
as private prosecutions which deplete all of their funds doing what
the Police should be doing to start with..
Ooh it makes my blood boil just thinking about it....
I can understand how vigilante groups start up & why, but it wouldn't
be appropriate & I wouldn't consider it unless I had to go through
this time and time again. In such cases, you could understand why
others do though, can't you?

Sheelagh