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View Full Version : Does the Trail of Tainted Pet Food Lead to a Fertilizer Plant In China?


James
April 30th 07, 03:13 AM
This is a pretty good hypothesis that I found interesting..

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/9/171352/6715

"Wheat gluten and melamine really don't go together.

For one thing, melamine is considerably more expensive than wheat
gluten. No unscrupulous exporter is going to cut wheat gluten with
melamine to increase his profits."

"I do have a theory.

There is one common thread between wheat gluten and melamine:

Water.

Wheat gluten production uses a lot of water. After the wheat kernel is
broken up in the dry mill, a water wash separates the insoluble wheat
gluten from the soluble wheat starch. Then the globs of wheat gluten
are screened off and go through a drying process. Any insolubles in
the water could be concentrated in the gluten.

The melamine production process happens to produce a lot of melamine-
laced effluent water.

Melamine has low solubility in water, biodegrades poorly, and tends to
hang around in the environment.

For the purposes of my theory, it is highly advantageous that upriver
of Binzhou is the Shandong Mingshui Great Chemical Group, whose urea
plant--one of China's ancient, 1958 vintage demonstration plants--
also produces melamine"

Charlie Wilkes
April 30th 07, 06:06 AM
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 19:13:15 -0700, James wrote:

> This is a pretty good hypothesis that I found interesting..
>
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/9/171352/6715
>
> "Wheat gluten and melamine really don't go together.
>
> For one thing, melamine is considerably more expensive than wheat
> gluten. No unscrupulous exporter is going to cut wheat gluten with
> melamine to increase his profits."
>
This guy may or may not know what he's talking about, but the New York
Times is running a story that says Chinese companies often use melamine
to bolster the protein count in animal feed. Apparently they buy
"melamine scrap," left over from the production run.

http://tinyurl.com/3xmw8b

Charlie

Barry
April 30th 07, 10:19 AM
On Apr 30, 1:06 am, Charlie Wilkes >
wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 19:13:15 -0700, James wrote:
> > This is a pretty good hypothesis that I found interesting..
>
> >http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/9/171352/6715
>
> > "Wheat gluten and melamine really don't go together.
>
> > For one thing, melamine is considerably more expensive than wheat
> > gluten. No unscrupulous exporter is going to cut wheat gluten with
> > melamine to increase his profits."
>
> This guy may or may not know what he's talking about, but the New York
> Times is running a story that says Chinese companies often use melamine
> to bolster the protein count in animal feed. Apparently they buy
> "melamine scrap," left over from the production run.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3xmw8b
>
> Charlie

This actually makes me angry.

It wouldn't surprise me if little greedy stunts like this didn't cause
aids and piareah

April 30th 07, 03:28 PM
On Apr 30, 1:06 am, Charlie Wilkes >
wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 19:13:15 -0700, James wrote:
> > This is a pretty good hypothesis that I found interesting..
>
> >http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/9/171352/6715
>
> > "Wheat gluten and melamine really don't go together.
>
> > For one thing, melamine is considerably more expensive than wheat
> > gluten. No unscrupulous exporter is going to cut wheat gluten with
> > melamine to increase his profits."
>
> This guy may or may not know what he's talking about, but the New York
> Times is running a story that says Chinese companies often use melamine
> to bolster the protein count in animal feed. Apparently they buy
> "melamine scrap," left over from the production run.

I am not sure the NYTimes writers know what they are writing.
People who drink tea from tea bags regularly probably injest mealmine
which is approved by the FDA as indirect food additive. Melamine
resin
is added to prevent the teabag from distingrating from the hot water.


>
> http://tinyurl.com/3xmw8b
>
> Charlie

James
April 30th 07, 06:03 PM
On Apr 30, 12:17 pm, PaPaPeng > wrote:
> On 29 Apr 2007 19:13:15 -0700, James > wrote:
>[i]
> >For one thing, melamine is considerably more expensive than wheat
> >gluten. No unscrupulous exporter is going to cut wheat gluten with
> >melamine to increase his profits."
>
> The China gluten exporter doesn't make the stuff himself and get his
> gluten supply from sub contractors. These sub contractors are
> hundreds of small businesses who would not have the chemistry
> knowledge to spike their false protein content for lab tests. I don't
> think there is any lab food testing of gluten in China before they are
> exported. If there is no testing what is the point of spending money
> and effort to spike the product since there is no profit in doing so.
> Gluten itself is a low value product which is why it is used for pet
> food (up to 50% content). The American and Canadian buyers don't test
> for protein content either which is why everyone is mystified where
> the melamine came from.
>
> Gluten is a natural food product and the content proportions all come
> within a very narrow band. Just as you cannot make meat "meatier" you
> cannot make gluten "protein-ier" as any test results out of the
> narrow band of figures will be obvious instantly and therefore
> suspect. To balance the proportions to within normal requires
> chemistry knowledge, skills and equipment Chinese gluten producers do
> not have. In any case to raise the protein rating something else has
> to go down such as adding more flour. Again what is the point? Tests
> for carbohydrates and sugars will then also spike as send out alarms.
>
> If you read the reports carefully the link with melanine and the link
> to China is speculation not a fact. The China link does serve as a
> useful distraction away from the pet food manufacturers and gives the
> FDA time to investigate.
>
> ================================================== =======
>
> Go to Wikipedia to get more data about melamine.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melamine
>
> Melamine is an organic base with the chemical formula C3H6N6, with the
> IUPAC name 1,3,5-triazine-2,4,6-triamine. It is only slightly soluble
> in water.
>
> (PPP: A simple test will then be to stir up the pet food in water
> then see what floats up.]
>
> Melamine is a trimer of cyanamide. Like cyanamide, it is 66% nitrogen
> (by mass) and provides fire retardant properties to resin formulas by
> releasing nitrogen when burned or charred. Dicyandiamide (or
> cyanoguanidine), the dimer of cyanamide, is also used as a fire
> retardant
>
> Melamine is a metabolite of cyromazine, a pesticide. It is formed in
> the body of mammals who have ingested cyromazine.[2] It was also
> reported that cyromazine is converted to melamine in plants.[3][4]
>
> [edit] Synthesis
> Melamine is produced from urea, mainly by either of two methods:
> catalyzed gas-phase production or high pressure liquid-phase
> production.
>
> Melamine is produced from the heating of dicyanodiamide, which is
> prepared from the polymerization of cyanamide[citation needed].
>
> Melamine production in China has also been reported as using coal as
> raw material.[5]
>
> [edit] Uses
> Melamine is used combined with formaldehyde to produce melamine resin,
> a very durable thermosetting plastic, and of melamine foam, a
> polymeric cleaning product. The end products include countertops,
> fabrics, glues and flame retardants. Melamine is one of major
> components in Pigment Yellow 150, a colorant in inks and plastics.
>
> Melamine is also used to make fertilizers.
>
> [edit] Regulation
> The Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) of the United States
> Department of Agriculture (USDA) provides a test method for analyzing
> cyromazine and melamine in animal tissues in its Chemistry Laboratory
> Guidebook which "contains test methods used by FSIS Laboratories to
> support the Agency's inspection program, ensuring that meat, poultry,
> and egg products are safe, wholesome and accurately labeled."[6][7] In
> 1999, in a proposed rule published in the Federal Register regarding
> cyromazine residue, the United States Environmental Protection Agency
> (EPA) proposed "remov melamine, a metabolite of cyromazine from
> the tolerance expression since it is no longer considered a residue of
> concern."[8]
>
> [edit] Toxicity
> Animal studies have shown that ingestion of melamine may lead to
> kidney stones, cancer or reproductive damage.[9][10][11][12]
>
> This section is related to a current event.
> For the main article on the event, see 2007 pet food crisis.
> Information may change rapidly as the event progresses.
>
> In 2007 a pet food recall was initiated by Menu Foods and other pet
> food manufacturers who had found their products had been contaminated
> and caused serious illnesses or deaths in some of the animals that had
> eaten them[13][14][15]. On 30 March 2007, the US Food and Drug
> Administration reported finding white granular melamine in the pet
> food, in samples of white granular wheat gluten imported from a single
> source in China, Xuzhou Anying Biologic Technology [16] as well as in
> crystalline form in the kidneys and in urine of affected animals[17].
>
> The practice of adding melamine scrap to animal feed is reported to be
> widespread in China in order to give the appearance of increased
> protein content in animal feed.[5] The presence of melamine has not
> been conclusively linked to the deaths of animals, as this chemical
> was previously thought to be relatively non-toxic at low doses. The
> FDA has blocked importation of wheat gluten from the Chinese supplier
> (Xuzhou Anying Biologic Technology), pending completion of its
> investigation. On April 24, 2007, the FDA announced it will expand its
> investigation to test for ingredients imported for human consumption,
> including wheat gluten, corn gluten, cornmeal, rice bran and rice
> protein[18]
>
> Melamine when heated causes the loss of nitrogen, leaving guanidine, a
> muscle stimulant used as a pharmaceutical, and ammonia, a poison.[19]
> The reported symptoms of the animals conform to those of ammonia
> poisoning since melamine may metabolize into ammonia by the body.[20]
>
> Some researchers have focused on the role of other metabolic
> by-products of melamine in causing renal failure. On April 19
> researchers announced that a "spoke-like crystal" had been found in
> contaminated rice protein concentrate and the tissues and urine of
> affected animals. The crystal serves as a biomarker for contamination
> and is roughly 30% melamine. The remainder has been identified as
> cyanuric acid, amilorine and amiloride by researchers at the
> University of Guelph, in Ontario and Cornell University's College of
> Veterinary Medicine. The three chemicals are metabolites of melamine,
> which researchers hypothesized were formed as the animals metabolized
> the melamine. Other researchers at Michigan State University have
> confirmed amilorine and amiloride but not the cyanuric acid. At least
> one researcher believes that cyanuric acid, commonly used in pool
> chlorination, is the most likely chemical in the contaminated products
> causing renal failure in the affected animals, although tests in dogs
> and rats have shown that cyanuric acid is safe.[21] Richard Goldstein
> of the Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine hypothesized
> that the crystallization of melamine and cyanuric acid might cause
> cyanuric acid to remain in the kidneys for longer periods of time than
> when cyanuric acid in pool water is accidentally swallowed by people,
> explaining its apparent increased toxicity in this case. While it
> remains possible that cyanuric acid was added as a separate
> contaminant, Goldstein said that it was likely that it was the result
> of bacterial metabolism of melamine.[22] Cyanuric acid is a known
> intermediate byproduct of bacterial metabolism of melamine.[23]
>
> [edit] Widespread use in Chinese feed products
> Please help improve this article or section by expanding it.
> Further information might be found on the talk page or at requests for
> expansion.
> This section is related to a current event.
> For the main article on the event, see 2007 pet food crisis.
> Information may change rapidly as the event progresses.
>
> On April 30, 2007, The New York Times reported that the addition of
> melamine into fish and livestock feed to give the false appearance of
> a higher level of protein was an "open secret" in many parts of
> China.[5]
>
> Shandong Mingshui Great Chemical Group, the company reported by the
> New York Times as producing melamine from coal, produces and sells
> both urea and melamine.[24]
>
> Melamine production in China has increased greatly in recent years
> leading to surplus availability.[25]
>
> In the United States Geological Survey 2004 Minerals Survey Yearbook,
> in a report on worldwide nitrogen production, the author stated that
> "China continued to plan and construct new ammonia and urea plants
> using coal gasification technology."[

The problem I have with the NYT article is that it does not say they
add it to wheat gluten. They keep saying animal feed. May be another
case of Bush trying to mislead the public.

Why would any feed supplier trying to cheat tell you his feed is
crap? Would he lose his customers when word got out that impurities
are added on purpose?

Matthew
April 30th 07, 06:17 PM
"James" >

Keep political BS out of the group and why in the hell are you crossposting

rst0wxyz
May 1st 07, 03:20 AM
On Apr 30, 10:03 am, James > wrote:
> On Apr 30, 12:17 pm, PaPaPeng > wrote:

>
> The problem I have with the NYT article is that it does not say they
> add it to wheat gluten. They keep saying animal feed. May be another
> case of Bush trying to mislead the public.
>
> Why would any feed supplier trying to cheat tell you his feed is
> crap? Would he lose his customers when word got out that impurities
> are added on purpose?

Come on, guys, be realistic. We all know Chinese people in China are
well known for this kind of cheats. When my gf buys mooncakes, she
would only buy those made in Hong Kong as she said she can not trust
the ingredients in the mooncakes from China. She said Chinese
fishermen inject water into fish to make it weigh more. The same with
the beef. China must rid itself of these kinds of petty cheating.

blkcatgal
May 1st 07, 04:34 AM
FDA is reporting that the Chinese companies got around their government's
inspections by saying the product was not "food."

FDA is also admitting that it has received over 17,000 consumer complaints
and 4,150 pet deaths have been reported. Far cry from the 16 or so they
have been saying for weeks.

S.

"James" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> On Apr 30, 12:17 pm, PaPaPeng > wrote:
>> On 29 Apr 2007 19:13:15 -0700, James > wrote:
>>[i]
>> >For one thing, melamine is considerably more expensive than wheat
>> >gluten. No unscrupulous exporter is going to cut wheat gluten with
>> >melamine to increase his profits."
>>
>> The China gluten exporter doesn't make the stuff himself and get his
>> gluten supply from sub contractors. These sub contractors are
>> hundreds of small businesses who would not have the chemistry
>> knowledge to spike their false protein content for lab tests. I don't
>> think there is any lab food testing of gluten in China before they are
>> exported. If there is no testing what is the point of spending money
>> and effort to spike the product since there is no profit in doing so.
>> Gluten itself is a low value product which is why it is used for pet
>> food (up to 50% content). The American and Canadian buyers don't test
>> for protein content either which is why everyone is mystified where
>> the melamine came from.
>>
>> Gluten is a natural food product and the content proportions all come
>> within a very narrow band. Just as you cannot make meat "meatier" you
>> cannot make gluten "protein-ier" as any test results out of the
>> narrow band of figures will be obvious instantly and therefore
>> suspect. To balance the proportions to within normal requires
>> chemistry knowledge, skills and equipment Chinese gluten producers do
>> not have. In any case to raise the protein rating something else has
>> to go down such as adding more flour. Again what is the point? Tests
>> for carbohydrates and sugars will then also spike as send out alarms.
>>
>> If you read the reports carefully the link with melanine and the link
>> to China is speculation not a fact. The China link does serve as a
>> useful distraction away from the pet food manufacturers and gives the
>> FDA time to investigate.
>>
>> ================================================== =======
>>
>> Go to Wikipedia to get more data about
>> melamine.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melamine
>>
>> Melamine is an organic base with the chemical formula C3H6N6, with the
>> IUPAC name 1,3,5-triazine-2,4,6-triamine. It is only slightly soluble
>> in water.
>>
>> (PPP: A simple test will then be to stir up the pet food in water
>> then see what floats up.]
>>
>> Melamine is a trimer of cyanamide. Like cyanamide, it is 66% nitrogen
>> (by mass) and provides fire retardant properties to resin formulas by
>> releasing nitrogen when burned or charred. Dicyandiamide (or
>> cyanoguanidine), the dimer of cyanamide, is also used as a fire
>> retardant
>>
>> Melamine is a metabolite of cyromazine, a pesticide. It is formed in
>> the body of mammals who have ingested cyromazine.[2] It was also
>> reported that cyromazine is converted to melamine in plants.[3][4]
>>
>> [edit] Synthesis
>> Melamine is produced from urea, mainly by either of two methods:
>> catalyzed gas-phase production or high pressure liquid-phase
>> production.
>>
>> Melamine is produced from the heating of dicyanodiamide, which is
>> prepared from the polymerization of cyanamide[citation needed].
>>
>> Melamine production in China has also been reported as using coal as
>> raw material.[5]
>>
>> [edit] Uses
>> Melamine is used combined with formaldehyde to produce melamine resin,
>> a very durable thermosetting plastic, and of melamine foam, a
>> polymeric cleaning product. The end products include countertops,
>> fabrics, glues and flame retardants. Melamine is one of major
>> components in Pigment Yellow 150, a colorant in inks and plastics.
>>
>> Melamine is also used to make fertilizers.
>>
>> [edit] Regulation
>> The Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) of the United States
>> Department of Agriculture (USDA) provides a test method for analyzing
>> cyromazine and melamine in animal tissues in its Chemistry Laboratory
>> Guidebook which "contains test methods used by FSIS Laboratories to
>> support the Agency's inspection program, ensuring that meat, poultry,
>> and egg products are safe, wholesome and accurately labeled."[6][7] In
>> 1999, in a proposed rule published in the Federal Register regarding
>> cyromazine residue, the United States Environmental Protection Agency
>> (EPA) proposed "remov melamine, a metabolite of cyromazine from
>> the tolerance expression since it is no longer considered a residue of
>> concern."[8]
>>
>> [edit] Toxicity
>> Animal studies have shown that ingestion of melamine may lead to
>> kidney stones, cancer or reproductive damage.[9][10][11][12]
>>
>> This section is related to a current event.
>> For the main article on the event, see 2007 pet food crisis.
>> Information may change rapidly as the event progresses.
>>
>> In 2007 a pet food recall was initiated by Menu Foods and other pet
>> food manufacturers who had found their products had been contaminated
>> and caused serious illnesses or deaths in some of the animals that had
>> eaten them[13][14][15]. On 30 March 2007, the US Food and Drug
>> Administration reported finding white granular melamine in the pet
>> food, in samples of white granular wheat gluten imported from a single
>> source in China, Xuzhou Anying Biologic Technology [16] as well as in
>> crystalline form in the kidneys and in urine of affected animals[17].
>>
>> The practice of adding melamine scrap to animal feed is reported to be
>> widespread in China in order to give the appearance of increased
>> protein content in animal feed.[5] The presence of melamine has not
>> been conclusively linked to the deaths of animals, as this chemical
>> was previously thought to be relatively non-toxic at low doses. The
>> FDA has blocked importation of wheat gluten from the Chinese supplier
>> (Xuzhou Anying Biologic Technology), pending completion of its
>> investigation. On April 24, 2007, the FDA announced it will expand its
>> investigation to test for ingredients imported for human consumption,
>> including wheat gluten, corn gluten, cornmeal, rice bran and rice
>> protein[18]
>>
>> Melamine when heated causes the loss of nitrogen, leaving guanidine, a
>> muscle stimulant used as a pharmaceutical, and ammonia, a poison.[19]
>> The reported symptoms of the animals conform to those of ammonia
>> poisoning since melamine may metabolize into ammonia by the body.[20]
>>
>> Some researchers have focused on the role of other metabolic
>> by-products of melamine in causing renal failure. On April 19
>> researchers announced that a "spoke-like crystal" had been found in
>> contaminated rice protein concentrate and the tissues and urine of
>> affected animals. The crystal serves as a biomarker for contamination
>> and is roughly 30% melamine. The remainder has been identified as
>> cyanuric acid, amilorine and amiloride by researchers at the
>> University of Guelph, in Ontario and Cornell University's College of
>> Veterinary Medicine. The three chemicals are metabolites of melamine,
>> which researchers hypothesized were formed as the animals metabolized
>> the melamine. Other researchers at Michigan State University have
>> confirmed amilorine and amiloride but not the cyanuric acid. At least
>> one researcher believes that cyanuric acid, commonly used in pool
>> chlorination, is the most likely chemical in the contaminated products
>> causing renal failure in the affected animals, although tests in dogs
>> and rats have shown that cyanuric acid is safe.[21] Richard Goldstein
>> of the Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine hypothesized
>> that the crystallization of melamine and cyanuric acid might cause
>> cyanuric acid to remain in the kidneys for longer periods of time than
>> when cyanuric acid in pool water is accidentally swallowed by people,
>> explaining its apparent increased toxicity in this case. While it
>> remains possible that cyanuric acid was added as a separate
>> contaminant, Goldstein said that it was likely that it was the result
>> of bacterial metabolism of melamine.[22] Cyanuric acid is a known
>> intermediate byproduct of bacterial metabolism of melamine.[23]
>>
>> [edit] Widespread use in Chinese feed products
>> Please help improve this article or section by expanding it.
>> Further information might be found on the talk page or at requests for
>> expansion.
>> This section is related to a current event.
>> For the main article on the event, see 2007 pet food crisis.
>> Information may change rapidly as the event progresses.
>>
>> On April 30, 2007, The New York Times reported that the addition of
>> melamine into fish and livestock feed to give the false appearance of
>> a higher level of protein was an "open secret" in many parts of
>> China.[5]
>>
>> Shandong Mingshui Great Chemical Group, the company reported by the
>> New York Times as producing melamine from coal, produces and sells
>> both urea and melamine.[24]
>>
>> Melamine production in China has increased greatly in recent years
>> leading to surplus availability.[25]
>>
>> In the United States Geological Survey 2004 Minerals Survey Yearbook,
>> in a report on worldwide nitrogen production, the author stated that
>> "China continued to plan and construct new ammonia and urea plants
>> using coal gasification technology."[
>
> The problem I have with the NYT article is that it does not say they
> add it to wheat gluten. They keep saying animal feed. May be another
> case of Bush trying to mislead the public.
>
> Why would any feed supplier trying to cheat tell you his feed is
> crap? Would he lose his customers when word got out that impurities
> are added on purpose?
>
>

rst0wxyz
May 1st 07, 04:44 AM
On Apr 30, 8:34 pm, "blkcatgal" > wrote:
> FDA is reporting that the Chinese companies got around their government's
> inspections by saying the product was not "food."
>
> FDA is also admitting that it has received over 17,000 consumer complaints
> and 4,150 pet deaths have been reported. Far cry from the 16 or so they
> have been saying for weeks.
>
> S.

The U.S. must teach China a lesson on unsafe food practices and not
let China get away with such a bad situation.

May 1st 07, 04:28 PM
On Apr 30, 11:34 pm, "blkcatgal" > wrote:
> FDA is reporting that the Chinese companies got around their government's
> inspections by saying the product was not "food."
>
> FDA is also admitting that it has received over 17,000 consumer complaints
> and 4,150 pet deaths have been reported. Far cry from the 16 or so they
> have been saying for weeks.

Has it been oncluded that melamine is the cause of death?
AFAIK, melamine is not poisonous. Melamine resin is used to fortify
teabags
such that they won't disintegrate in hot water.


> S.
>
> "James" > wrote in message
>
> ps.com...> On Apr 30, 12:17 pm, PaPaPeng > wrote:
> >> On 29 Apr 2007 19:13:15 -0700, James > wrote:
>
> >> >For one thing, melamine is considerably more expensive than wheat
> >> >gluten. No unscrupulous exporter is going to cut wheat gluten with
> >> >melamine to increase his profits."
>
> >> The China gluten exporter doesn't make the stuff himself and get his
> >> gluten supply from sub contractors. These sub contractors are
> >> hundreds of small businesses who would not have the chemistry
> >> knowledge to spike their false protein content for lab tests. I don't
> >> think there is any lab food testing of gluten in China before they are
> >> exported. If there is no testing what is the point of spending money
> >> and effort to spike the product since there is no profit in doing so.
> >> Gluten itself is a low value product which is why it is used for pet
> >> food (up to 50% content). The American and Canadian buyers don't test
> >> for protein content either which is why everyone is mystified where
> >> the melamine came from.
>
> >> Gluten is a natural food product and the content proportions all come
> >> within a very narrow band. Just as you cannot make meat "meatier" you
> >> cannot make gluten "protein-ier" as any test results out of the
> >> narrow band of figures will be obvious instantly and therefore
> >> suspect. To balance the proportions to within normal requires
> >> chemistry knowledge, skills and equipment Chinese gluten producers do
> >> not have. In any case to raise the protein rating something else has
> >> to go down such as adding more flour. Again what is the point? Tests
> >> for carbohydrates and sugars will then also spike as send out alarms.
>
> >> If you read the reports carefully the link with melanine and the link
> >> to China is speculation not a fact. The China link does serve as a
> >> useful distraction away from the pet food manufacturers and gives the
> >> FDA time to investigate.
>
> >> ================================================== =======
>
> >> Go to Wikipedia to get more data about
> >> melamine.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melamine
>
> >> Melamine is an organic base with the chemical formula C3H6N6, with the
> >> IUPAC name 1,3,5-triazine-2,4,6-triamine. It is only slightly soluble
> >> in water.
>
> >> (PPP: A simple test will then be to stir up the pet food in water
> >> then see what floats up.]
>
> >> Melamine is a trimer of cyanamide. Like cyanamide, it is 66% nitrogen
> >> (by mass) and provides fire retardant properties to resin formulas by
> >> releasing nitrogen when burned or charred. Dicyandiamide (or
> >> cyanoguanidine), the dimer of cyanamide, is also used as a fire
> >> retardant
>
> >> Melamine is a metabolite of cyromazine, a pesticide. It is formed in
> >> the body of mammals who have ingested cyromazine.[2] It was also
> >> reported that cyromazine is converted to melamine in plants.[3][4]
>
> >> [edit] Synthesis
> >> Melamine is produced from urea, mainly by either of two methods:
> >> catalyzed gas-phase production or high pressure liquid-phase
> >> production.
>
> >> Melamine is produced from the heating of dicyanodiamide, which is
> >> prepared from the polymerization of cyanamide[citation needed].
>
> >> Melamine production in China has also been reported as using coal as
> >> raw material.[5]
>
> >> [edit] Uses
> >> Melamine is used combined with formaldehyde to produce melamine resin,
> >> a very durable thermosetting plastic, and of melamine foam, a
> >> polymeric cleaning product. The end products include countertops,
> >> fabrics, glues and flame retardants. Melamine is one of major
> >> components in Pigment Yellow 150, a colorant in inks and plastics.
>
> >> Melamine is also used to make fertilizers.
>
> >> [edit] Regulation
> >> The Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) of the United States
> >> Department of Agriculture (USDA) provides a test method for analyzing
> >> cyromazine and melamine in animal tissues in its Chemistry Laboratory
> >> Guidebook which "contains test methods used by FSIS Laboratories to
> >> support the Agency's inspection program, ensuring that meat, poultry,
> >> and egg products are safe, wholesome and accurately labeled."[6][7] In
> >> 1999, in a proposed rule published in the Federal Register regarding
> >> cyromazine residue, the United States Environmental Protection Agency
> >> (EPA) proposed "remov[ing] melamine, a metabolite of cyromazine from
> >> the tolerance expression since it is no longer considered a residue of
> >> concern."[8]
>
> >> [edit] Toxicity
> >> Animal studies have shown that ingestion of melamine may lead to
> >> kidney stones, cancer or reproductive damage.[9][10][11][12]
>
> >> This section is related to a current event.
> >> For the main article on the event, see 2007 pet food crisis.
> >> Information may change rapidly as the event progresses.
>
> >> In 2007 a pet food recall was initiated by Menu Foods and other pet
> >> food manufacturers who had found their products had been contaminated
> >> and caused serious illnesses or deaths in some of the animals that had
> >> eaten them[13][14][15]. On 30 March 2007, the US Food and Drug
> >> Administration reported finding white granular melamine in the pet
> >> food, in samples of white granular wheat gluten imported from a single
> >> source in China, Xuzhou Anying Biologic Technology [16] as well as in
> >> crystalline form in the kidneys and in urine of affected animals[17].
>
> >> The practice of adding melamine scrap to animal feed is reported to be
> >> widespread in China in order to give the appearance of increased
> >> protein content in animal feed.[5] The presence of melamine has not
> >> been conclusively linked to the deaths of animals, as this chemical
> >> was previously thought to be relatively non-toxic at low doses. The
> >> FDA has blocked importation of wheat gluten from the Chinese supplier
> >> (Xuzhou Anying Biologic Technology), pending completion of its
> >> investigation. On April 24, 2007, the FDA announced it will expand its
> >> investigation to test for ingredients imported for human consumption,
> >> including wheat gluten, corn gluten, cornmeal, rice bran and rice
> >> protein[18]
>
> >> Melamine when heated causes the loss of nitrogen, leaving guanidine, a
> >> muscle stimulant used as a pharmaceutical, and ammonia, a poison.[19]
> >> The reported symptoms of the animals conform to those of ammonia
> >> poisoning since melamine may metabolize into ammonia by the body.[20]
>
> >> Some researchers have focused on the role of other metabolic
> >> by-products of melamine in causing renal failure. On April 19
> >> researchers announced that a "spoke-like crystal" had been found in
> >> contaminated rice protein concentrate and the tissues and urine of
> >> affected animals. The crystal serves as a biomarker for contamination
> >> and is roughly 30% melamine. The remainder has been identified as
> >> cyanuric acid, amilorine and amiloride by researchers at the
> >> University of Guelph, in Ontario and Cornell University's College of
> >> Veterinary Medicine. The three chemicals are metabolites of melamine,
> >> which researchers hypothesized were formed as the animals metabolized
> >> the melamine. Other researchers at Michigan State University have
> >> confirmed amilorine and amiloride but not the cyanuric acid. At least
> >> one researcher believes that cyanuric acid, commonly used in pool
> >> chlorination, is the most likely chemical in the contaminated products
> >> causing renal failure in the affected animals, although tests in dogs
> >> and rats have shown that cyanuric acid is safe.[21] Richard Goldstein
> >> of the Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine hypothesized
> >> that the crystallization of melamine and cyanuric acid might cause
> >> cyanuric acid to remain in the kidneys for longer periods of time than
> >> when cyanuric acid in pool water is accidentally swallowed by people,
> >> explaining its apparent increased toxicity in this case. While it
> >> remains possible that cyanuric acid was added as a separate
> >> contaminant, Goldstein said that it was likely that it was the result
> >> of bacterial metabolism of melamine.[22] Cyanuric acid is a known
> >> intermediate byproduct of bacterial metabolism of melamine.[23]
>
> >> [edit] Widespread use in Chinese feed products
> >> Please help improve this article or section by expanding it.
> >> Further information might be found on the talk page or at requests for
> >> expansion.
> >> This section is related to a current event.
> >> For the main article on the event, see 2007 pet food crisis.
> >> Information may change rapidly as the event progresses.
>
> >> On April 30, 2007, The New York Times reported that the addition of
> >> melamine into fish and livestock feed to give the false appearance of
> >> a higher level of protein was an "open secret" in many parts of
> >> China.[5]
>
> >> Shandong Mingshui Great Chemical Group, the company reported by the
> >> New York Times as producing melamine from coal, produces and sells
> >> both urea and melamine.[24]
>
> >> Melamine production in China has increased greatly in recent years
> >> leading to surplus availability.[25]
>
> >> In the United States Geological Survey 2004 Minerals Survey Yearbook,
> >> in a report on worldwide nitrogen production, the author stated that
> >> "China continued to plan and construct new ammonia and urea plants
> >> using coal gasification technology."[
>
> > The problem I have with the NYT article is that it does not say they
> > add it to wheat gluten. They keep saying animal feed. May be another
> > case of Bush trying to mislead the public.
>
> > Why would any feed supplier trying to cheat tell you his feed is
> > crap? Would he lose his customers when word got out that impurities
> > are added on purpose?

William Hamblen
May 2nd 07, 01:55 AM
On 1 May 2007 08:28:36 -0700, "
> wrote:

>Has it been oncluded that melamine is the cause of death?
>AFAIK, melamine is not poisonous. Melamine resin is used to fortify
>teabags
>such that they won't disintegrate in hot water.

Melamine isn't melamine resin. "Melamine resin" is shorthand for
melamine-formaldehyde resin, which is a thermosetting polymer used to
make plastic products such as Melmac brand dishes.

Melamine is mildly toxic to rodents. It takes a pretty substantial
dose to kill a rat. Cats may be more sensitive.

Melamine apparently was an adulterant added to trick the usual crude
protein analysis, which relies on the amount of ammonia released when
the product is treated chemically. Buyers don't like to be defrauded
by their suppliers. Things like this don't do China's commercial
reputation any good.

Bud
--
The night is just the shadow of the Earth.

James
May 2nd 07, 02:40 AM
On May 1, 8:55 pm, William Hamblen > wrote:
> On 1 May 2007 08:28:36 -0700, "
>
> > wrote:
> >Has it been oncluded that melamine is the cause of death?
> >AFAIK, melamine is not poisonous. Melamine resin is used to fortify
> >teabags
> >such that they won't disintegrate in hot water.
>
> Melamine isn't melamine resin. "Melamine resin" is shorthand for
> melamine-formaldehyde resin, which is a thermosetting polymer used to
> make plastic products such as Melmac brand dishes.
>
> Melamine is mildly toxic to rodents. It takes a pretty substantial
> dose to kill a rat. Cats may be more sensitive.
>
> Melamine apparently was an adulterant added to trick the usual crude
> protein analysis, which relies on the amount of ammonia released when
> the product is treated chemically. Buyers don't like to be defrauded
> by their suppliers. Things like this don't do China's commercial
> reputation any good.
>
> Bud
> --
> The night is just the shadow of the Earth.

If they do actually add melamine to animal feed does not explain why
they would add it to wheat gluten. American pet food manufacturers
don't use wheat gluten for its protein. They use it more as a gravy
thickener.

May 2nd 07, 02:45 AM
On May 1, 8:55 pm, William Hamblen > wrote:
> On 1 May 2007 08:28:36 -0700, "
>
> > wrote:
> >Has it been oncluded that melamine is the cause of death?
> >AFAIK, melamine is not poisonous. Melamine resin is used to fortify
> >teabags
> >such that they won't disintegrate in hot water.
>
> Melamine isn't melamine resin. "Melamine resin" is shorthand for
> melamine-formaldehyde resin, which is a thermosetting polymer used to
> make plastic products such as Melmac brand dishes.

Yes. Melamine resin is melamine formaldehyde and it is an
approved indirect food additive. Would it decompose in the body
after being ingested? The assumption is that it doesn't matter.

>
> Melamine is mildly toxic to rodents. It takes a pretty substantial
> dose to kill a rat. Cats may be more sensitive.

Basically, that isn't any evidence that melamine is poisoning the
cats and dogs. But more important, how many cats and dogs
had actually been determined to have died of unnatural causes?
This, of course, begs the question on what do we know about
the death of dogs and cats.

Let us assume that there are 60 million pet dogs and cats in America.
Let us further assume that the natural life span of indoor pets to be
15 years. How many of them would have died each day? And because of
what?

Before we can answer the above questons, the one mindedness
focus on melamine which is not known to be poisonous is senseless?

>
> Melamine apparently was an adulterant added to trick the usual crude
> protein analysis, which relies on the amount of ammonia released when
> the product is treated chemically. Buyers don't like to be defrauded
> by their suppliers. Things like this don't do China's commercial
> reputation any good.
>
> Bud
> --
> The night is just the shadow of the Earth.

blkcatgal
May 2nd 07, 04:43 AM
I don't think the death of 4500+ pets in this short period of time is
"natural." This is being reported by CNN:

Scientists from Canada and the United States say they have new evidence for
why dogs and cats died after eating contaminated pet food.
Owners of more than 4,000 pets have complained to the federal Food and Drug
Administration that their animals died after eating food that was later
recalled.

Inspectors found melamine in the tainted products, but not at levels that
would normally kill. But researchers now say that it may have mixed with
another compound -- cyanuric acid -- to produce crystals that may have been
deadly.

"What we've done is experiments that show if you take cat urine and you add
melamine to it and cyanuric acid, the crystals will form in the cat urine in
a test tube as we're watching them, so it happens within a matter of hours,"
said Alan Wildeman, vice president of Canada's University of Guelph, which
is renowned for its veterinary research center.

The crystals are suspected of contributing to kidney failure in pets.



> wrote in message
ups.com...
> On May 1, 8:55 pm, William Hamblen > wrote:
>> On 1 May 2007 08:28:36 -0700, "
>>
>> > wrote:
>> >Has it been oncluded that melamine is the cause of death?
>> >AFAIK, melamine is not poisonous. Melamine resin is used to fortify
>> >teabags
>> >such that they won't disintegrate in hot water.
>>
>> Melamine isn't melamine resin. "Melamine resin" is shorthand for
>> melamine-formaldehyde resin, which is a thermosetting polymer used to
>> make plastic products such as Melmac brand dishes.
>
> Yes. Melamine resin is melamine formaldehyde and it is an
> approved indirect food additive. Would it decompose in the body
> after being ingested? The assumption is that it doesn't matter.
>
>>
>> Melamine is mildly toxic to rodents. It takes a pretty substantial
>> dose to kill a rat. Cats may be more sensitive.
>
> Basically, that isn't any evidence that melamine is poisoning the
> cats and dogs. But more important, how many cats and dogs
> had actually been determined to have died of unnatural causes?
> This, of course, begs the question on what do we know about
> the death of dogs and cats.
>
> Let us assume that there are 60 million pet dogs and cats in America.
> Let us further assume that the natural life span of indoor pets to be
> 15 years. How many of them would have died each day? And because of
> what?
>
> Before we can answer the above questons, the one mindedness
> focus on melamine which is not known to be poisonous is senseless?
>
>>
>> Melamine apparently was an adulterant added to trick the usual crude
>> protein analysis, which relies on the amount of ammonia released when
>> the product is treated chemically. Buyers don't like to be defrauded
>> by their suppliers. Things like this don't do China's commercial
>> reputation any good.
>>
>> Bud
>> --
>> The night is just the shadow of the Earth.
>
>

May 3rd 07, 05:01 AM
On May 1, 11:43 pm, "blkcatgal" > wrote:
> I don't think the death of 4500+ pets in this short period of time is
> "natural."

What make you so sure?
As I had explained, over a large number of pets dogs and cats in
America
will die everyday. A matter of number of pets and natural life span.
Assuming
60 million pets and 15 year natural life span will give 10958 dead
cat and dog
every day. Seven days a week. Different assumptions will yield
different number
will yield different daily death. I one pet per 5 persons is about
right.

Is 4500 death over a total death of 500,000 during the same period
enough
proof for excessive death?

> This is being reported by CNN:
>
> Scientists from Canada and the United States say they have new evidence for
> why dogs and cats died after eating contaminated pet food.
> Owners of more than 4,000 pets have complained to the federal Food and Drug
> Administration that their animals died after eating food that was later
> recalled.

So?

>
> Inspectors foundmelaminein the tainted products, but not at levels that
> would normally kill. But researchers now say that it may have mixed with
> another compound -- cyanuric acid -- to produce crystals that may have been
> deadly.

>
> "What we've done is experiments that show if you take cat urine and you addmelamineto it and cyanuric acid, the crystals will form in the cat urine in
> a test tube as we're watching them, so it happens within a matter of hours,"
> said Alan Wildeman, vice president of Canada's University of Guelph, which
> is renowned for its veterinary research center.
>
> The crystals are suspected of contributing to kidney failure in pets.
>
> > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
> > On May 1, 8:55 pm, William Hamblen > wrote:
> >> On 1 May 2007 08:28:36 -0700, "
>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >Has it been oncluded thatmelamineis the cause of death?
> >> >AFAIK,melamineis not poisonous.Melamineresin is used to fortify
> >> >teabags
> >> >such that they won't disintegrate in hot water.
>
> >>Melamineisn'tmelamineresin. "Melamineresin" is shorthand for
> >>melamine-formaldehyde resin, which is a thermosetting polymer used to
> >> make plastic products such as Melmac brand dishes.
>
> > Yes.Melamineresin ismelamineformaldehyde and it is an
> > approved indirect food additive. Would it decompose in the body
> > after being ingested? The assumption is that it doesn't matter.
>
> >>Melamineis mildly toxic to rodents. It takes a pretty substantial
> >> dose to kill a rat. Cats may be more sensitive.
>
> > Basically, that isn't any evidence thatmelamineis poisoning the
> > cats and dogs. But more important, how many cats and dogs
> > had actually been determined to have died of unnatural causes?
> > This, of course, begs the question on what do we know about
> > the death of dogs and cats.
>
> > Let us assume that there are 60 million pet dogs and cats in America.
> > Let us further assume that the natural life span of indoor pets to be
> > 15 years. How many of them would have died each day? And because of
> > what?
>
> > Before we can answer the above questons, the one mindedness
> > focus onmelaminewhich is not known to be poisonous is senseless?
>
> >>Melamineapparently was an adulterant added to trick the usual crude
> >> protein analysis, which relies on the amount of ammonia released when
> >> the product is treated chemically. Buyers don't like to be defrauded
> >> by their suppliers. Things like this don't do China's commercial
> >> reputation any good.
>
> >> Bud
> >> --
> >> The night is just the shadow of the Earth.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -