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View Full Version : Can a lactating queen come into Estrus?


sheelagh
May 17th 07, 08:03 PM
I was wondering if anyone knows whether it is possible for a lactating
queen with 6 week old kittens can come into Estrus? I have 2 queens
here that are still feeding their kittens. Tahnee who is due to be
spayed on Friday,( the queen that adopted our baby Birman kittens) &
also the second rescue queen, who's kittens are now 6 weeks old & I
have just started to wean them. They are still feeding from mummy cat,
but that is because of necessity because there was no one feeding her,
never mind her kittens!! I feed them with meat & milk mixed together

Now that I have them here I started them on Cimmi-Cat kitty formula
and also whiskers kitten pouches of wet eat too & they seem to love
it. I have to feed mummy separately otherwise she would eat the
kittens share too!I feed them with meat & milk mixed together on a
baking tray so that they get covered in it, because they really do
seem to enjoy cleaning one another & it seems to help with bonding
process- I was wondering if it would be best to wait until the kittens
are fully weaned, or whether to take her down to the vet surgery on
Friday to be done at the same time as Tahnee is?

I have called my vet to ask advice, but he told me that it is my
decision to make, because we both know that there is no chance of her
becoming pregnant because she is penned, & even if she did by some
dreadful stroke of luck, she did get out & mixed with our other cats,
they are all neutered anyway, so she wouldn't get too far there.

My main concern is that if I do have her spayed, that she will not
feel like feeding her kitten's, & I wondered if I was being a bit too
premature by getting her spayed so soon? @ 6 weeks, I am certain that
the kittens will be able to cope without breast milk, But am I being a
bit too hasty, for fear that she might get out & get pregnant again?

She is displaying every single sign of Estrus, including crying,
calling like a Banshee, Wiping her face on any surface she can find,
rolling on the ground, & also marking, which is something that I have
heard of female cats doing, but never witnessed it before, ...& also
trying anything that she can to try & get away from her kittens, not
feed them, & attract any passing male. Of course this does not include
the line of tom cats that we have lined up @ the garden gate, which is
a pretty good sign that *they are taking her seriously*?!!

I would appreciate your thoughts on this please?

Thanks in advance,

S;o)

sheelagh
May 17th 07, 08:09 PM
On 17 May, 20:03, sheelagh > wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone knows whether it is possible for a lactating
> queen with 6 week old kittens can come into Estrus? I have 2 queens
> here that are still feeding their kittens. Tahnee who is due to be
> spayed on Friday,( the queen that adopted our baby Birman kittens) &
> also the second rescue queen, who's kittens are now 6 weeks old & I
> have just started to wean them. They are still feeding from mummy cat,
> but that is because of necessity because there was no one feeding her,
> never mind her kittens!! I feed them with meat & milk mixed together
>
> Now that I have them here I started them on Cimmi-Cat kitty formula
> and also whiskers kitten pouches of wet eat too & they seem to love
> it. I have to feed mummy separately otherwise she would eat the
> kittens share too!I feed them with meat & milk mixed together on a
> baking tray so that they get covered in it, because they really do
> seem to enjoy cleaning one another & it seems to help with bonding
> process- I was wondering if it would be best to wait until the kittens
> are fully weaned, or whether to take her down to the vet surgery on
> Friday to be done at the same time as Tahnee is?
>
> I have called my vet to ask advice, but he told me that it is my
> decision to make, because we both know that there is no chance of her
> becoming pregnant because she is penned, & even if she did by some
> dreadful stroke of luck, she did get out & mixed with our other cats,
> they are all neutered anyway, so she wouldn't get too far there.
>
> My main concern is that if I do have her spayed, that she will not
> feel like feeding her kitten's, & I wondered if I was being a bit too
> premature by getting her spayed so soon? @ 6 weeks, I am certain that
> the kittens will be able to cope without breast milk, But am I being a
> bit too hasty, for fear that she might get out & get pregnant again?
>
> She is displaying every single sign of Estrus, including crying,
> calling like a Banshee, Wiping her face on any surface she can find,
> rolling on the ground, & also marking, which is something that I have
> heard of female cats doing, but never witnessed it before, ...& also
> trying anything that she can to try & get away from her kittens, not
> feed them, & attract any passing male. Of course this does not include
> the line of tom cats that we have lined up @ the garden gate, which is
> a pretty good sign that *they are taking her seriously*?!!
>
> I would appreciate your thoughts on this please?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> S;o)

I have some photos of the queen & her kittens. I meant to include a
link for you, but forgot to do it before posting. I thought it might
help you asses the situation.

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/MummyOMallyCatPeach

S;o)

Lis
May 17th 07, 08:37 PM
On May 17, 3:03 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone knows whether it is possible for a lactating
> queen with 6 week old kittens can come into Estrus? I have 2 queens
> here that are still feeding their kittens. Tahnee who is due to be
> spayed on Friday,( the queen that adopted our baby Birman kittens) &
> also the second rescue queen, who's kittens are now 6 weeks old & I
> have just started to wean them. They are still feeding from mummy cat,
> but that is because of necessity because there was no one feeding her,
> never mind her kittens!! I feed them with meat & milk mixed together
>
> Now that I have them here I started them on Cimmi-Cat kitty formula
> and also whiskers kitten pouches of wet eat too & they seem to love
> it. I have to feed mummy separately otherwise she would eat the
> kittens share too!I feed them with meat & milk mixed together on a
> baking tray so that they get covered in it, because they really do
> seem to enjoy cleaning one another & it seems to help with bonding
> process- I was wondering if it would be best to wait until the kittens
> are fully weaned, or whether to take her down to the vet surgery on
> Friday to be done at the same time as Tahnee is?
>
> I have called my vet to ask advice, but he told me that it is my
> decision to make, because we both know that there is no chance of her
> becoming pregnant because she is penned, & even if she did by some
> dreadful stroke of luck, she did get out & mixed with our other cats,
> they are all neutered anyway, so she wouldn't get too far there.
>
> My main concern is that if I do have her spayed, that she will not
> feel like feeding her kitten's, & I wondered if I was being a bit too
> premature by getting her spayed so soon? @ 6 weeks, I am certain that
> the kittens will be able to cope without breast milk, But am I being a
> bit too hasty, for fear that she might get out & get pregnant again?
>
> She is displaying every single sign of Estrus, including crying,
> calling like a Banshee, Wiping her face on any surface she can find,
> rolling on the ground, & also marking, which is something that I have
> heard of female cats doing, but never witnessed it before, ...& also
> trying anything that she can to try & get away from her kittens, not
> feed them, & attract any passing male. Of course this does not include
> the line of tom cats that we have lined up @ the garden gate, which is
> a pretty good sign that *they are taking her seriously*?!!
>
> I would appreciate your thoughts on this please?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> S;o)

She and most especially the toms are telling you that she is
definitely in heat.:)

I'd wait on the spaying if you can possibly stand it. Spaying during
estrus is a little riskier than when not in heat, and from what you've
said she wasn't in the best circumstances before. Also, the kittens
ought to be allowed to nurse some and not be completely weaned until
eight weeks, especially from such a disadvantaged (i.e.,
undernourished) background, and I would not bet a bad penny on her
being willing to nurse after surgery. Yes, the kittens would probably
"cope", but from what I've seen it makes a big difference in their
social and physical development, to be allowed to nurse as long as
mummy will tolerate it.

As you've said, none of your cats can get her pregnant even if she
gets out and mixes with them; she'd have to get all the way out of the
house.

Get some earplugs, maybe? :)

<ducks and runs>

Lis

GODEATER
May 17th 07, 08:54 PM
the pic labeled "mummy,where are you?" looks EXACTLY like my dear departed
boogers.
is it male or female?
does he/she need a good home?
i live in the washington D.C. area.
tia.

bookie
May 17th 07, 11:12 PM
On 17 May, 20:09, sheelagh > wrote:
> On 17 May, 20:03, sheelagh > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I was wondering if anyone knows whether it is possible for a lactating
> > queen with 6 week old kittens can come into Estrus? I have 2 queens
> > here that are still feeding their kittens. Tahnee who is due to be
> > spayed on Friday,( the queen that adopted our baby Birman kittens) &
> > also the second rescue queen, who's kittens are now 6 weeks old & I
> > have just started to wean them. They are still feeding from mummy cat,
> > but that is because of necessity because there was no one feeding her,
> > never mind her kittens!! I feed them with meat & milk mixed together
>
> > Now that I have them here I started them on Cimmi-Cat kitty formula
> > and also whiskers kitten pouches of wet eat too & they seem to love
> > it. I have to feed mummy separately otherwise she would eat the
> > kittens share too!I feed them with meat & milk mixed together on a
> > baking tray so that they get covered in it, because they really do
> > seem to enjoy cleaning one another & it seems to help with bonding
> > process- I was wondering if it would be best to wait until the kittens
> > are fully weaned, or whether to take her down to the vet surgery on
> > Friday to be done at the same time as Tahnee is?
>
> > I have called my vet to ask advice, but he told me that it is my
> > decision to make, because we both know that there is no chance of her
> > becoming pregnant because she is penned, & even if she did by some
> > dreadful stroke of luck, she did get out & mixed with our other cats,
> > they are all neutered anyway, so she wouldn't get too far there.
>
> > My main concern is that if I do have her spayed, that she will not
> > feel like feeding her kitten's, & I wondered if I was being a bit too
> > premature by getting her spayed so soon? @ 6 weeks, I am certain that
> > the kittens will be able to cope without breast milk, But am I being a
> > bit too hasty, for fear that she might get out & get pregnant again?
>
> > She is displaying every single sign of Estrus, including crying,
> > calling like a Banshee, Wiping her face on any surface she can find,
> > rolling on the ground, & also marking, which is something that I have
> > heard of female cats doing, but never witnessed it before, ...& also
> > trying anything that she can to try & get away from her kittens, not
> > feed them, & attract any passing male. Of course this does not include
> > the line of tom cats that we have lined up @ the garden gate, which is
> > a pretty good sign that *they are taking her seriously*?!!
>
> > I would appreciate your thoughts on this please?
>
> > Thanks in advance,
>
> > S;o)
>
> I have some photos of the queen & her kittens. I meant to include a
> link for you, but forgot to do it before posting. I thought it might
> help you asses the situation.
>
> http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/MummyOMallyCatPeach
>
> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

PEACHY!!!!!! OMG!!!! she is absolutely gorgeous!!! if i could reach
into the screen grab her, stuff her down my jumper and run away i
would, what a little angel, but I bet she is a little rascal too :-)
I'm in love now, she knows she is beautiful doesn't she? are you
keeping her or does she have a good home lined up? make sure she has a
VERY good home lined up with slaves willing to do her bidding day and
night, she deserves nothing less.

she is perfection

Bookie

Cheryl
May 18th 07, 04:16 AM
On Thu 17 May 2007 03:54:23p, GODEATER wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
>:

> the pic labeled "mummy,where are you?" looks EXACTLY like my
> dear departed boogers.
> is it male or female?
> does he/she need a good home?
> i live in the washington D.C. area.

I'm also in the DC area and can probably hook you up with a kitten
that looks like Boogers, or another that you might latch on to. A
woman in my town is single handedly trying to move a feral colony and
since it's spring, there are many kittens. Let me know if you want
me to hook you up with her. I'm in Bowie.

--
Cheryl

Cheryl
May 18th 07, 04:19 AM
On Thu 17 May 2007 11:16:59p, Cheryl wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
>:

>> the pic labeled "mummy,where are you?" looks EXACTLY like my
>> dear departed boogers.
>> is it male or female?
>> does he/she need a good home?
>> i live in the washington D.C. area.
>
> I'm also in the DC area and can probably hook you up with a
> kitten that looks like Boogers, or another that you might latch
> on to. A woman in my town is single handedly trying to move a
> feral colony and since it's spring, there are many kittens. Let
> me know if you want me to hook you up with her. I'm in Bowie.

PS - if you email my Usenet email addy, let me know here because I
only check it every couple of weeks.

--
Cheryl

sheelagh
May 18th 07, 06:36 AM
On 17 May, 20:54, "GODEATER" > wrote:
> the pic labeled "mummy,where are you?" looks EXACTLY like my dear departed
> boogers.
> is it male or female?
> does he/she need a good home?
> i live in the washington D.C. area.
> tia.

Sorry, I live in the UK...:o(
I am hoping that Cheryl might be able to help you though.

I rather like both of them too, but I have to draw the line somewhere
in the sand, & right now we have 9 adults here, of which are looking
for new homes.( I didn't include the kittens to that, because it makes
me break out in a cold sweat just thinking about it, Lol.....

I have every confidence that we will be able to find good kitten
obeying cat slaves for them all.

I hope that Cheryl will be able to help you though.
Please do let us know how you get on with your quest for mumy though,
won't you?

Thanks,
S;o)

sheelagh
May 18th 07, 06:39 AM
On 18 May, 04:16, Cheryl > wrote:
> On Thu 17 May 2007 03:54:23p, GODEATER wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> >:
>
> > the pic labeled "mummy,where are you?" looks EXACTLY like my
> > dear departed boogers.
> > is it male or female?
> > does he/she need a good home?
> > i live in the washington D.C. area.
>
> I'm also in the DC area and can probably hook you up with a kitten
> that looks like Boogers, or another that you might latch on to. A
> woman in my town is single handedly trying to move a feral colony and
> since it's spring, there are many kittens. Let me know if you want
> me to hook you up with her. I'm in Bowie.
>
> --
> Cheryl

I very much hope that we can read about a success story on here in the
very near future Cheryl. Thanks for helping out on this one.

I can't even begin to think about what the shipping fee's might have
been, Lol:o)
Good luck to both of you and the lady with the colony too!!

S;o)

sheelagh
May 18th 07, 07:05 AM
On 17 May, 23:12, bookie > wrote:
> On 17 May, 20:09, sheelagh > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 17 May, 20:03, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > I was wondering if anyone knows whether it is possible for a lactating
> > > queen with 6 week old kittens can come into Estrus? I have 2 queens
> > > here that are still feeding their kittens. Tahnee who is due to be
> > > spayed on Friday,( the queen that adopted our baby Birman kittens) &
> > > also the second rescue queen, who's kittens are now 6 weeks old & I
> > > have just started to wean them. They are still feeding from mummy cat,
> > > but that is because of necessity because there was no one feeding her,
> > > never mind her kittens!! I feed them with meat & milk mixed together
>
> > > Now that I have them here I started them on Cimmi-Cat kitty formula
> > > and also whiskers kitten pouches of wet eat too & they seem to love
> > > it. I have to feed mummy separately otherwise she would eat the
> > > kittens share too!I feed them with meat & milk mixed together on a
> > > baking tray so that they get covered in it, because they really do
> > > seem to enjoy cleaning one another & it seems to help with bonding
> > > process- I was wondering if it would be best to wait until the kittens
> > > are fully weaned, or whether to take her down to the vet surgery on
> > > Friday to be done at the same time as Tahnee is?
>
> > > I have called my vet to ask advice, but he told me that it is my
> > > decision to make, because we both know that there is no chance of her
> > > becoming pregnant because she is penned, & even if she did by some
> > > dreadful stroke of luck, she did get out & mixed with our other cats,
> > > they are all neutered anyway, so she wouldn't get too far there.
>
> > > My main concern is that if I do have her spayed, that she will not
> > > feel like feeding her kitten's, & I wondered if I was being a bit too
> > > premature by getting her spayed so soon? @ 6 weeks, I am certain that
> > > the kittens will be able to cope without breast milk, But am I being a
> > > bit too hasty, for fear that she might get out & get pregnant again?
>
> > > She is displaying every single sign of Estrus, including crying,
> > > calling like a Banshee, Wiping her face on any surface she can find,
> > > rolling on the ground, & also marking, which is something that I have
> > > heard of female cats doing, but never witnessed it before, ...& also
> > > trying anything that she can to try & get away from her kittens, not
> > > feed them, & attract any passing male. Of course this does not include
> > > the line of tom cats that we have lined up @ the garden gate, which is
> > > a pretty good sign that *they are taking her seriously*?!!
>
> > > I would appreciate your thoughts on this please?
>
> > > Thanks in advance,
>
> > > S;o)
>
> > I have some photos of the queen & her kittens. I meant to include a
> > link for you, but forgot to do it before posting. I thought it might
> > help you asses the situation.
>
> >http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/MummyOMallyCatPeach
>
> > S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> PEACHY!!!!!! OMG!!!! she is absolutely gorgeous!!! if i could reach
> into the screen grab her, stuff her down my jumper and run away i
> would, what a little angel, but I bet she is a little rascal too :-)
> I'm in love now, she knows she is beautiful doesn't she? are you
> keeping her or does she have a good home lined up? make sure she has a
> VERY good home lined up with slaves willing to do her bidding day and
> night, she deserves nothing less.
>
> she is perfection
>
> Bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I thought the same thing as you too... then I had a reality check..I
already have7 full time cats, 8 kittens and an extra 2 adults that
are staying for a while. Even by standards, that is quite a few. I
also worry that Tilly is going to kick up a stink when she has to say
good bye to Peachy too, but that's life & everything that you come to
accept when you offer to take cats, queens and their kittens in.....

I think that both of them are wonderful personally. O'Mally is a
little rough & tumble puss cat, & his sister is a little dainty
tootsie girl. I fell in love with her as well... but Yes, I do have a
wonderful home lined up for her. Ringo has taken O'mally under his
personal tutelage in how to act cool whilst your raiding the
fridge(lol!!)...Ringo has learnt how to open the fridge door and
thinks he is the bee's knees too(Grrr!!;o)...Why are cats so
clever?!!!!#[email protected]

And peachy is a girl's girl. Tilly painted her claws yesterday with
some speacial stuff that you coat kitties claws in to stop them
scratching you. It is a bit like a rubber compound & stops thier
little claws getting hooked up in your shins whilst climbing the
mountain of legs to reach that lap warm for you.....(Wow, that hurts),
but the compound is excellent BTW- I can't remember the name of it off
hand...


Peachy is going to a very well to do Gynaecologist, his wife and thier
3 kids in 5 weeks, as soon as they have had their injections [email protected]
weeks weeks. She is a little tinkle Bell, & her brother is a little
bruiser lol...

O'Mally is going to live with a the local vicar, to help him out with
his duties and keep him company too. His wife died a few months back &
he happened to call @ exactly the same time as the kittens arrived, so
that was the 1st one homed...It will be hard to say goodbye to them,
but we know where they are & 99.9% of thier new owners tend to keep in
touch with us & send photos of them as they grow up. I will post
updates of her if you would like me to? It looks like her Daddy might
have been a British blue, doesn't it?
S;o)

sheelagh
May 18th 07, 07:14 AM
On 17 May, 20:37, Lis > wrote:
> On May 17, 3:03 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I was wondering if anyone knows whether it is possible for a lactating
> > queen with 6 week old kittens can come into Estrus? I have 2 queens
> > here that are still feeding their kittens. Tahnee who is due to be
> > spayed on Friday,( the queen that adopted our baby Birman kittens) &
> > also the second rescue queen, who's kittens are now 6 weeks old & I
> > have just started to wean them. They are still feeding from mummy cat,
> > but that is because of necessity because there was no one feeding her,
> > never mind her kittens!! I feed them with meat & milk mixed together
>
> > Now that I have them here I started them on Cimmi-Cat kitty formula
> > and also whiskers kitten pouches of wet eat too & they seem to love
> > it. I have to feed mummy separately otherwise she would eat the
> > kittens share too!I feed them with meat & milk mixed together on a
> > baking tray so that they get covered in it, because they really do
> > seem to enjoy cleaning one another & it seems to help with bonding
> > process- I was wondering if it would be best to wait until the kittens
> > are fully weaned, or whether to take her down to the vet surgery on
> > Friday to be done at the same time as Tahnee is?
>
> > I have called my vet to ask advice, but he told me that it is my
> > decision to make, because we both know that there is no chance of her
> > becoming pregnant because she is penned, & even if she did by some
> > dreadful stroke of luck, she did get out & mixed with our other cats,
> > they are all neutered anyway, so she wouldn't get too far there.
>
> > My main concern is that if I do have her spayed, that she will not
> > feel like feeding her kitten's, & I wondered if I was being a bit too
> > premature by getting her spayed so soon? @ 6 weeks, I am certain that
> > the kittens will be able to cope without breast milk, But am I being a
> > bit too hasty, for fear that she might get out & get pregnant again?
>
> > She is displaying every single sign of Estrus, including crying,
> > calling like a Banshee, Wiping her face on any surface she can find,
> > rolling on the ground, & also marking, which is something that I have
> > heard of female cats doing, but never witnessed it before, ...& also
> > trying anything that she can to try & get away from her kittens, not
> > feed them, & attract any passing male. Of course this does not include
> > the line of tom cats that we have lined up @ the garden gate, which is
> > a pretty good sign that *they are taking her seriously*?!!
>
> > I would appreciate your thoughts on this please?
>
> > Thanks in advance,
>
> > S;o)
>
> She and most especially the toms are telling you that she is
> definitely in heat.:)
>
> I'd wait on the spaying if you can possibly stand it. Spaying during
> estrus is a little riskier than when not in heat, and from what you've
> said she wasn't in the best circumstances before. Also, the kittens
> ought to be allowed to nurse some and not be completely weaned until
> eight weeks, especially from such a disadvantaged (i.e.,
> undernourished) background, and I would not bet a bad penny on her
> being willing to nurse after surgery. Yes, the kittens would probably
> "cope", but from what I've seen it makes a big difference in their
> social and physical development, to be allowed to nurse as long as
> mummy will tolerate it.
>
> As you've said, none of your cats can get her pregnant even if she
> gets out and mixes with them; she'd have to get all the way out of the
> house.
>
> Get some earplugs, maybe? :)
>
> <ducks and runs>
>
> Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

> She and most especially the toms are telling you that she is
> definitely in heat.:)

I thought that might be the case. Thank you Lis!

No, she hasn't got a hope in heaven of getting out again or getting
pregnant, so here comes the ear plugs & a restful night's sleep again,
Lol:o)
Good God they know how to howl...!!?

Thank you for that advice. I thought that might be the case, but
decided to check all the same to be sure that it was worth while
waiting before getting them done. You are right regarding Mummy & the
lack of food though & the breast feeding. I'm not sure if you have
seen the photos of these cats, but if you have, you will note that
mummy is quite thin really for only 2 kittens in her litter ( that
were found over a 3 day period by the cat protection league).....

The Advice and opinion is greatly appreciated Lis, thank you,
S;o)

Lis
May 18th 07, 02:12 PM
On May 18, 2:14 am, sheelagh > wrote:
> On 17 May, 20:37, Lis > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 17, 3:03 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > I was wondering if anyone knows whether it is possible for a lactating
> > > queen with 6 week old kittens can come into Estrus? I have 2 queens
> > > here that are still feeding their kittens. Tahnee who is due to be
> > > spayed on Friday,( the queen that adopted our baby Birman kittens) &
> > > also the second rescue queen, who's kittens are now 6 weeks old & I
> > > have just started to wean them. They are still feeding from mummy cat,
> > > but that is because of necessity because there was no one feeding her,
> > > never mind her kittens!! I feed them with meat & milk mixed together
>
> > > Now that I have them here I started them on Cimmi-Cat kitty formula
> > > and also whiskers kitten pouches of wet eat too & they seem to love
> > > it. I have to feed mummy separately otherwise she would eat the
> > > kittens share too!I feed them with meat & milk mixed together on a
> > > baking tray so that they get covered in it, because they really do
> > > seem to enjoy cleaning one another & it seems to help with bonding
> > > process- I was wondering if it would be best to wait until the kittens
> > > are fully weaned, or whether to take her down to the vet surgery on
> > > Friday to be done at the same time as Tahnee is?
>
> > > I have called my vet to ask advice, but he told me that it is my
> > > decision to make, because we both know that there is no chance of her
> > > becoming pregnant because she is penned, & even if she did by some
> > > dreadful stroke of luck, she did get out & mixed with our other cats,
> > > they are all neutered anyway, so she wouldn't get too far there.
>
> > > My main concern is that if I do have her spayed, that she will not
> > > feel like feeding her kitten's, & I wondered if I was being a bit too
> > > premature by getting her spayed so soon? @ 6 weeks, I am certain that
> > > the kittens will be able to cope without breast milk, But am I being a
> > > bit too hasty, for fear that she might get out & get pregnant again?
>
> > > She is displaying every single sign of Estrus, including crying,
> > > calling like a Banshee, Wiping her face on any surface she can find,
> > > rolling on the ground, & also marking, which is something that I have
> > > heard of female cats doing, but never witnessed it before, ...& also
> > > trying anything that she can to try & get away from her kittens, not
> > > feed them, & attract any passing male. Of course this does not include
> > > the line of tom cats that we have lined up @ the garden gate, which is
> > > a pretty good sign that *they are taking her seriously*?!!
>
> > > I would appreciate your thoughts on this please?
>
> > > Thanks in advance,
>
> > > S;o)
>
> > She and most especially the toms are telling you that she is
> > definitely in heat.:)
>
> > I'd wait on the spaying if you can possibly stand it. Spaying during
> > estrus is a little riskier than when not in heat, and from what you've
> > said she wasn't in the best circumstances before. Also, the kittens
> > ought to be allowed to nurse some and not be completely weaned until
> > eight weeks, especially from such a disadvantaged (i.e.,
> > undernourished) background, and I would not bet a bad penny on her
> > being willing to nurse after surgery. Yes, the kittens would probably
> > "cope", but from what I've seen it makes a big difference in their
> > social and physical development, to be allowed to nurse as long as
> > mummy will tolerate it.
>
> > As you've said, none of your cats can get her pregnant even if she
> > gets out and mixes with them; she'd have to get all the way out of the
> > house.
>
> > Get some earplugs, maybe? :)
>
> > <ducks and runs>
>
> > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
> > She and most especially the toms are telling you that she is
> > definitely in heat.:)
>
> I thought that might be the case. Thank you Lis!
>
> No, she hasn't got a hope in heaven of getting out again or getting
> pregnant, so here comes the ear plugs & a restful night's sleep again,
> Lol:o)
> Good God they know how to howl...!!?

Hey, she's got to attract as many males as possible to fight for her
favors, so that she gets the best, strongest, healthiest father(s) for
her next litter, right?:)

> Thank you for that advice. I thought that might be the case, but
> decided to check all the same to be sure that it was worth while
> waiting before getting them done. You are right regarding Mummy & the
> lack of food though & the breast feeding. I'm not sure if you have
> seen the photos of these cats, but if you have, you will note that
> mummy is quite thin really for only 2 kittens in her litter ( that
> were found over a 3 day period by the cat protection league).....

Yes, she's nice-looking cat but a bit thin, considering.

> The Advice and opinion is greatly appreciated Lis, thank you,

Good luck to you, Mummy, and the kittens. Here's some pictures in
return--my two cats and the newest member of the household, my dog,
Addy.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lis.carey/AddyRetsinaAndAquavit?authkey=B-hEG7MEveA

Lis

sheelagh
May 18th 07, 03:48 PM
On 18 May, 14:12, Lis > wrote:
> On May 18, 2:14 am, sheelagh > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 17 May, 20:37, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > On May 17, 3:03 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > > I was wondering if anyone knows whether it is possible for a lactating
> > > > queen with 6 week old kittens can come into Estrus? I have 2 queens
> > > > here that are still feeding their kittens. Tahnee who is due to be
> > > > spayed on Friday,( the queen that adopted our baby Birman kittens) &
> > > > also the second rescue queen, who's kittens are now 6 weeks old & I
> > > > have just started to wean them. They are still feeding from mummy cat,
> > > > but that is because of necessity because there was no one feeding her,
> > > > never mind her kittens!! I feed them with meat & milk mixed together
>
> > > > Now that I have them here I started them on Cimmi-Cat kitty formula
> > > > and also whiskers kitten pouches of wet eat too & they seem to love
> > > > it. I have to feed mummy separately otherwise she would eat the
> > > > kittens share too!I feed them with meat & milk mixed together on a
> > > > baking tray so that they get covered in it, because they really do
> > > > seem to enjoy cleaning one another & it seems to help with bonding
> > > > process- I was wondering if it would be best to wait until the kittens
> > > > are fully weaned, or whether to take her down to the vet surgery on
> > > > Friday to be done at the same time as Tahnee is?
>
> > > > I have called my vet to ask advice, but he told me that it is my
> > > > decision to make, because we both know that there is no chance of her
> > > > becoming pregnant because she is penned, & even if she did by some
> > > > dreadful stroke of luck, she did get out & mixed with our other cats,
> > > > they are all neutered anyway, so she wouldn't get too far there.
>
> > > > My main concern is that if I do have her spayed, that she will not
> > > > feel like feeding her kitten's, & I wondered if I was being a bit too
> > > > premature by getting her spayed so soon? @ 6 weeks, I am certain that
> > > > the kittens will be able to cope without breast milk, But am I being a
> > > > bit too hasty, for fear that she might get out & get pregnant again?
>
> > > > She is displaying every single sign of Estrus, including crying,
> > > > calling like a Banshee, Wiping her face on any surface she can find,
> > > > rolling on the ground, & also marking, which is something that I have
> > > > heard of female cats doing, but never witnessed it before, ...& also
> > > > trying anything that she can to try & get away from her kittens, not
> > > > feed them, & attract any passing male. Of course this does not include
> > > > the line of tom cats that we have lined up @ the garden gate, which is
> > > > a pretty good sign that *they are taking her seriously*?!!
>
> > > > I would appreciate your thoughts on this please?
>
> > > > Thanks in advance,
>
> > > > S;o)
>
> > > She and most especially the toms are telling you that she is
> > > definitely in heat.:)
>
> > > I'd wait on the spaying if you can possibly stand it. Spaying during
> > > estrus is a little riskier than when not in heat, and from what you've
> > > said she wasn't in the best circumstances before. Also, the kittens
> > > ought to be allowed to nurse some and not be completely weaned until
> > > eight weeks, especially from such a disadvantaged (i.e.,
> > > undernourished) background, and I would not bet a bad penny on her
> > > being willing to nurse after surgery. Yes, the kittens would probably
> > > "cope", but from what I've seen it makes a big difference in their
> > > social and physical development, to be allowed to nurse as long as
> > > mummy will tolerate it.
>
> > > As you've said, none of your cats can get her pregnant even if she
> > > gets out and mixes with them; she'd have to get all the way out of the
> > > house.
>
> > > Get some earplugs, maybe? :)
>
> > > <ducks and runs>
>
> > > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
> > > She and most especially the toms are telling you that she is
> > > definitely in heat.:)
>
> > I thought that might be the case. Thank you Lis!
>
> > No, she hasn't got a hope in heaven of getting out again or getting
> > pregnant, so here comes the ear plugs & a restful night's sleep again,
> > Lol:o)
> > Good God they know how to howl...!!?
>
> Hey, she's got to attract as many males as possible to fight for her
> favors, so that she gets the best, strongest, healthiest father(s) for
> her next litter, right?:)
>
> > Thank you for that advice. I thought that might be the case, but
> > decided to check all the same to be sure that it was worth while
> > waiting before getting them done. You are right regarding Mummy & the
> > lack of food though & the breast feeding. I'm not sure if you have
> > seen the photos of these cats, but if you have, you will note that
> > mummy is quite thin really for only 2 kittens in her litter ( that
> > were found over a 3 day period by the cat protection league).....
>
> Yes, she's nice-looking cat but a bit thin, considering.
>
> > The Advice and opinion is greatly appreciated Lis, thank you,
>
> Good luck to you, Mummy, and the kittens. Here's some pictures in
> return--my two cats and the newest member of the household, my dog,
> Addy.http://picasaweb.google.com/lis.carey/AddyRetsinaAndAquavit?authkey=B...
>
> Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Wow! They look really nice. Thank you for sharing with me. I love
them;o)

My kids have been asking for a Dog for a long time, but I keep up the
excuse that it really isn't ideal because we have cats. My youngest
daughter just kindly pointed out to me that you seem to have no such
problems, so it is simply me being difficult...

DRAT IT!!
I have thwarted once again, LOL
S:o)
Tilly has also asked me to convey the fact that she thinks Addy is her
personal favourite too.....
PS: Thanks for the advice

K
May 18th 07, 04:21 PM
On 17 May, 20:03, sheelagh > wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone knows whether it is possible for a lactating
> queen with 6 week old kittens can come into Estrus? I have 2 queens
> here that are still feeding their kittens. Tahnee who is due to be
> spayed on Friday,( the queen that adopted our baby Birman kittens) &
> also the second rescue queen, who's kittens are now 6 weeks old & I
> have just started to wean them. They are still feeding from mummy cat,
> but that is because of necessity because there was no one feeding her,
> never mind her kittens!! I feed them with meat & milk mixed together
>
> Now that I have them here I started them on Cimmi-Cat kitty formula
> and also whiskers kitten pouches of wet eat too & they seem to love
> it. I have to feed mummy separately otherwise she would eat the
> kittens share too!I feed them with meat & milk mixed together on a
> baking tray so that they get covered in it, because they really do
> seem to enjoy cleaning one another & it seems to help with bonding
> process- I was wondering if it would be best to wait until the kittens
> are fully weaned, or whether to take her down to the vet surgery on
> Friday to be done at the same time as Tahnee is?
>
> I have called my vet to ask advice, but he told me that it is my
> decision to make, because we both know that there is no chance of her
> becoming pregnant because she is penned, & even if she did by some
> dreadful stroke of luck, she did get out & mixed with our other cats,
> they are all neutered anyway, so she wouldn't get too far there.
>
> My main concern is that if I do have her spayed, that she will not
> feel like feeding her kitten's, & I wondered if I was being a bit too
> premature by getting her spayed so soon? @ 6 weeks, I am certain that
> the kittens will be able to cope without breast milk, But am I being a
> bit too hasty, for fear that she might get out & get pregnant again?
>
> She is displaying every single sign of Estrus, including crying,
> calling like a Banshee, Wiping her face on any surface she can find,
> rolling on the ground, & also marking, which is something that I have
> heard of female cats doing, but never witnessed it before, ...& also
> trying anything that she can to try & get away from her kittens, not
> feed them, & attract any passing male. Of course this does not include
> the line of tom cats that we have lined up @ the garden gate, which is
> a pretty good sign that *they are taking her seriously*?!!
>
> I would appreciate your thoughts on this please?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> S;o)

Don't rush mother. As long as there is no chance of her becoming
impregnated, then allow her to enjoy her last litter of kittens,
especially if she is showing no signs of wanting to reject them from
weaning just yet.
Estrus is very unusual in a cat who has not finished weaning her
kittens,
However, don't ever be fooled into thinking that she is in a safe
period simply because she hasn't finished weaning, otherwise you will
end up with mummy & 6 kittens next time!
I must say that she does look rather thin considering that she only
has 2 kittens. I wonder if there were more kittens, but possibly some
of them didn't make it? Quite a feasible theory I think.

The photos are so sweet. I get litters too & we simply love the kitten
bit. I have a feeling that this year is going to be a bumper year for
kittens in the UK. Each year we get more cats spayed, but we never
keep up with the real numbers that we need to spay, compared to the
numbers that we do spay.

I sometimes wonder if we should hand out free certificates to ensure
that every male and female can be neutered or spayed free of charge,
yet other days, I feel that even that wouldn't be enough to make
people take us up on the offer. Heartbreaking, isn't it?

K.

Lis
May 18th 07, 06:16 PM
On May 18, 10:48 am, sheelagh > wrote:
> On 18 May, 14:12, Lis > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 18, 2:14 am, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > On 17 May, 20:37, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > > On May 17, 3:03 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > > > I was wondering if anyone knows whether it is possible for a lactating
> > > > > queen with 6 week old kittens can come into Estrus? I have 2 queens
> > > > > here that are still feeding their kittens. Tahnee who is due to be
> > > > > spayed on Friday,( the queen that adopted our baby Birman kittens) &
> > > > > also the second rescue queen, who's kittens are now 6 weeks old & I
> > > > > have just started to wean them. They are still feeding from mummy cat,
> > > > > but that is because of necessity because there was no one feeding her,
> > > > > never mind her kittens!! I feed them with meat & milk mixed together
>
> > > > > Now that I have them here I started them on Cimmi-Cat kitty formula
> > > > > and also whiskers kitten pouches of wet eat too & they seem to love
> > > > > it. I have to feed mummy separately otherwise she would eat the
> > > > > kittens share too!I feed them with meat & milk mixed together on a
> > > > > baking tray so that they get covered in it, because they really do
> > > > > seem to enjoy cleaning one another & it seems to help with bonding
> > > > > process- I was wondering if it would be best to wait until the kittens
> > > > > are fully weaned, or whether to take her down to the vet surgery on
> > > > > Friday to be done at the same time as Tahnee is?
>
> > > > > I have called my vet to ask advice, but he told me that it is my
> > > > > decision to make, because we both know that there is no chance of her
> > > > > becoming pregnant because she is penned, & even if she did by some
> > > > > dreadful stroke of luck, she did get out & mixed with our other cats,
> > > > > they are all neutered anyway, so she wouldn't get too far there.
>
> > > > > My main concern is that if I do have her spayed, that she will not
> > > > > feel like feeding her kitten's, & I wondered if I was being a bit too
> > > > > premature by getting her spayed so soon? @ 6 weeks, I am certain that
> > > > > the kittens will be able to cope without breast milk, But am I being a
> > > > > bit too hasty, for fear that she might get out & get pregnant again?
>
> > > > > She is displaying every single sign of Estrus, including crying,
> > > > > calling like a Banshee, Wiping her face on any surface she can find,
> > > > > rolling on the ground, & also marking, which is something that I have
> > > > > heard of female cats doing, but never witnessed it before, ...& also
> > > > > trying anything that she can to try & get away from her kittens, not
> > > > > feed them, & attract any passing male. Of course this does not include
> > > > > the line of tom cats that we have lined up @ the garden gate, which is
> > > > > a pretty good sign that *they are taking her seriously*?!!
>
> > > > > I would appreciate your thoughts on this please?
>
> > > > > Thanks in advance,
>
> > > > > S;o)
>
> > > > She and most especially the toms are telling you that she is
> > > > definitely in heat.:)
>
> > > > I'd wait on the spaying if you can possibly stand it. Spaying during
> > > > estrus is a little riskier than when not in heat, and from what you've
> > > > said she wasn't in the best circumstances before. Also, the kittens
> > > > ought to be allowed to nurse some and not be completely weaned until
> > > > eight weeks, especially from such a disadvantaged (i.e.,
> > > > undernourished) background, and I would not bet a bad penny on her
> > > > being willing to nurse after surgery. Yes, the kittens would probably
> > > > "cope", but from what I've seen it makes a big difference in their
> > > > social and physical development, to be allowed to nurse as long as
> > > > mummy will tolerate it.
>
> > > > As you've said, none of your cats can get her pregnant even if she
> > > > gets out and mixes with them; she'd have to get all the way out of the
> > > > house.
>
> > > > Get some earplugs, maybe? :)
>
> > > > <ducks and runs>
>
> > > > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > She and most especially the toms are telling you that she is
> > > > definitely in heat.:)
>
> > > I thought that might be the case. Thank you Lis!
>
> > > No, she hasn't got a hope in heaven of getting out again or getting
> > > pregnant, so here comes the ear plugs & a restful night's sleep again,
> > > Lol:o)
> > > Good God they know how to howl...!!?
>
> > Hey, she's got to attract as many males as possible to fight for her
> > favors, so that she gets the best, strongest, healthiest father(s) for
> > her next litter, right?:)
>
> > > Thank you for that advice. I thought that might be the case, but
> > > decided to check all the same to be sure that it was worth while
> > > waiting before getting them done. You are right regarding Mummy & the
> > > lack of food though & the breast feeding. I'm not sure if you have
> > > seen the photos of these cats, but if you have, you will note that
> > > mummy is quite thin really for only 2 kittens in her litter ( that
> > > were found over a 3 day period by the cat protection league).....
>
> > Yes, she's nice-looking cat but a bit thin, considering.
>
> > > The Advice and opinion is greatly appreciated Lis, thank you,
>
> > Good luck to you, Mummy, and the kittens. Here's some pictures in
> > return--my two cats and the newest member of the household, my dog,
> > Addy.http://picasaweb.google.com/lis.carey/AddyRetsinaAndAquavit?authkey=B...
>
> > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Wow! They look really nice. Thank you for sharing with me. I love
> them;o)
>
> My kids have been asking for a Dog for a long time, but I keep up the
> excuse that it really isn't ideal because we have cats. My youngest
> daughter just kindly pointed out to me that you seem to have no such
> problems, so it is simply me being difficult...
>
> DRAT IT!!
> I have thwarted once again, LOL

Bwa-ha-ha-ha! We loves making trouble, we does!:)

We always had both dogs and cats when I was growing up, at least from
the time I was ten or so. Most dogs will do well with cats, at least
the household cats, if they're raised with them. Some breeds are a
better bet than others, though. Terriers and sighthounds tend to have
really strong prey drives and a fast-moving cat can trigger their prey
instincts. Other breeds, like for a random example Chinese Cresteds:)
are generally particularly good with cats and other small household
pets. They're not much bigger than cats, themselves, after all. Addy's
12.5 pounds, a little on the big side for a Crested. Aquavit is a
moderately-sized Maine Coon, about 11 pounds. But you can see that
even Retsina, a mere six pounds, has no particular difficulty with
her. Cresteds, all in all, are very good family pets; they love to run
and play and walk, AND they love to curl up on the couch with you. The
downside is, either you get a Powderpuff (thick double coat, lots of
hair care) or you get a Hairless (lots of skin care, even if it's a
Hairy Hairless (long single coat over much but not all of the body.))

Addy's an adult, by the way, adopted after a (very short) failed
career as a show dog.

I'm a firm believer that every kid is entitled to have a dog to walk
with, but it's got to be a dog that Mom finds acceptable, because
there is no household on earth, where there is a functioning mother in
residence, where Mom does not wind up responsible for the dog's basic
care. So while you're admitting to your kids that I strongly encourage
it, you can also tell them I said Mom Rules. My first dog would have
been a disaster if not for my mother handling basic training; my
second dog was a cocker spaniel because the first dog's final illness
convinced her that the household dog need to be small enough for her
to pick up and carry in an emergency. (The first dog was a border
collie mix--solid, muscular, and while not huge, well, my mother and I
both have to look up to see five feet.)

My sister has a Labrador now, because she wanted a dog sturdy enough
for running, and for winter, and for playing with my niece, without an
excessive amount of coat care. I have a Crested because I have a small
house, no yard, wanted a walking companion that might be good for dog
agility, too, and I enjoy spending some time every evening combing and
brushing my pets. The Lab is also great with my mother's aging cat,
too, by the way.

You need to know what you need from a dog--in your case, first of all,
good with cats--and you need to know what you want from a dog--couch
potato, walking companion, gun dog, extreme doggy sports
enthusiast...? And then you need to tell all of that, very clearly, to
every shelter, rescue, or breeder you talk to. But, heck, you know a
lot of that; you've been on the other side of it with cats, placing
your kittens in suitable homes.

But I'm all for kids, cats, and canines in the same household.

> S:o)
> Tilly has also asked me to convey the fact that she thinks Addy is her
> personal favourite too.....

I'll tell Addy, but I'll spare Aquavit and Retsina the Awful News.:)

> PS: Thanks for the advice- Hide quoted text -

Glad to. (As you can see; I've done it again.:()

Lis

bookie
May 18th 07, 07:15 PM
On 18 May, 14:12, Lis > wrote:
> On May 18, 2:14 am, sheelagh > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 17 May, 20:37, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > On May 17, 3:03 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > > I was wondering if anyone knows whether it is possible for a lactating
> > > > queen with 6 week old kittens can come into Estrus? I have 2 queens
> > > > here that are still feeding their kittens. Tahnee who is due to be
> > > > spayed on Friday,( the queen that adopted our baby Birman kittens) &
> > > > also the second rescue queen, who's kittens are now 6 weeks old & I
> > > > have just started to wean them. They are still feeding from mummy cat,
> > > > but that is because of necessity because there was no one feeding her,
> > > > never mind her kittens!! I feed them with meat & milk mixed together
>
> > > > Now that I have them here I started them on Cimmi-Cat kitty formula
> > > > and also whiskers kitten pouches of wet eat too & they seem to love
> > > > it. I have to feed mummy separately otherwise she would eat the
> > > > kittens share too!I feed them with meat & milk mixed together on a
> > > > baking tray so that they get covered in it, because they really do
> > > > seem to enjoy cleaning one another & it seems to help with bonding
> > > > process- I was wondering if it would be best to wait until the kittens
> > > > are fully weaned, or whether to take her down to the vet surgery on
> > > > Friday to be done at the same time as Tahnee is?
>
> > > > I have called my vet to ask advice, but he told me that it is my
> > > > decision to make, because we both know that there is no chance of her
> > > > becoming pregnant because she is penned, & even if she did by some
> > > > dreadful stroke of luck, she did get out & mixed with our other cats,
> > > > they are all neutered anyway, so she wouldn't get too far there.
>
> > > > My main concern is that if I do have her spayed, that she will not
> > > > feel like feeding her kitten's, & I wondered if I was being a bit too
> > > > premature by getting her spayed so soon? @ 6 weeks, I am certain that
> > > > the kittens will be able to cope without breast milk, But am I being a
> > > > bit too hasty, for fear that she might get out & get pregnant again?
>
> > > > She is displaying every single sign of Estrus, including crying,
> > > > calling like a Banshee, Wiping her face on any surface she can find,
> > > > rolling on the ground, & also marking, which is something that I have
> > > > heard of female cats doing, but never witnessed it before, ...& also
> > > > trying anything that she can to try & get away from her kittens, not
> > > > feed them, & attract any passing male. Of course this does not include
> > > > the line of tom cats that we have lined up @ the garden gate, which is
> > > > a pretty good sign that *they are taking her seriously*?!!
>
> > > > I would appreciate your thoughts on this please?
>
> > > > Thanks in advance,
>
> > > > S;o)
>
> > > She and most especially the toms are telling you that she is
> > > definitely in heat.:)
>
> > > I'd wait on the spaying if you can possibly stand it. Spaying during
> > > estrus is a little riskier than when not in heat, and from what you've
> > > said she wasn't in the best circumstances before. Also, the kittens
> > > ought to be allowed to nurse some and not be completely weaned until
> > > eight weeks, especially from such a disadvantaged (i.e.,
> > > undernourished) background, and I would not bet a bad penny on her
> > > being willing to nurse after surgery. Yes, the kittens would probably
> > > "cope", but from what I've seen it makes a big difference in their
> > > social and physical development, to be allowed to nurse as long as
> > > mummy will tolerate it.
>
> > > As you've said, none of your cats can get her pregnant even if she
> > > gets out and mixes with them; she'd have to get all the way out of the
> > > house.
>
> > > Get some earplugs, maybe? :)
>
> > > <ducks and runs>
>
> > > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
> > > She and most especially the toms are telling you that she is
> > > definitely in heat.:)
>
> > I thought that might be the case. Thank you Lis!
>
> > No, she hasn't got a hope in heaven of getting out again or getting
> > pregnant, so here comes the ear plugs & a restful night's sleep again,
> > Lol:o)
> > Good God they know how to howl...!!?
>
> Hey, she's got to attract as many males as possible to fight for her
> favors, so that she gets the best, strongest, healthiest father(s) for
> her next litter, right?:)
>
> > Thank you for that advice. I thought that might be the case, but
> > decided to check all the same to be sure that it was worth while
> > waiting before getting them done. You are right regarding Mummy & the
> > lack of food though & the breast feeding. I'm not sure if you have
> > seen the photos of these cats, but if you have, you will note that
> > mummy is quite thin really for only 2 kittens in her litter ( that
> > were found over a 3 day period by the cat protection league).....
>
> Yes, she's nice-looking cat but a bit thin, considering.
>
> > The Advice and opinion is greatly appreciated Lis, thank you,
>
> Good luck to you, Mummy, and the kittens. Here's some pictures in
> return--my two cats and the newest member of the household, my dog,
> Addy.http://picasaweb.google.com/lis.carey/AddyRetsinaAndAquavit?authkey=B...
>
> Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

your 2 cats are lovely, i just love the white and black one, a bit
like my jasper was, kind of like a friesian cow! her fur looks so soft
and thick and plush too

what is that dog though? cannot recognise the breed or is he a
mixture?
bookie

sheelagh
May 18th 07, 09:37 PM
On 18 May, 19:15, bookie > wrote:
> On 18 May, 14:12, Lis > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 18, 2:14 am, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > On 17 May, 20:37, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > > On May 17, 3:03 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > > > I was wondering if anyone knows whether it is possible for a lactating
> > > > > queen with 6 week old kittens can come into Estrus? I have 2 queens
> > > > > here that are still feeding their kittens. Tahnee who is due to be
> > > > > spayed on Friday,( the queen that adopted our baby Birman kittens) &
> > > > > also the second rescue queen, who's kittens are now 6 weeks old & I
> > > > > have just started to wean them. They are still feeding from mummy cat,
> > > > > but that is because of necessity because there was no one feeding her,
> > > > > never mind her kittens!! I feed them with meat & milk mixed together
>
> > > > > Now that I have them here I started them on Cimmi-Cat kitty formula
> > > > > and also whiskers kitten pouches of wet eat too & they seem to love
> > > > > it. I have to feed mummy separately otherwise she would eat the
> > > > > kittens share too!I feed them with meat & milk mixed together on a
> > > > > baking tray so that they get covered in it, because they really do
> > > > > seem to enjoy cleaning one another & it seems to help with bonding
> > > > > process- I was wondering if it would be best to wait until the kittens
> > > > > are fully weaned, or whether to take her down to the vet surgery on
> > > > > Friday to be done at the same time as Tahnee is?
>
> > > > > I have called my vet to ask advice, but he told me that it is my
> > > > > decision to make, because we both know that there is no chance of her
> > > > > becoming pregnant because she is penned, & even if she did by some
> > > > > dreadful stroke of luck, she did get out & mixed with our other cats,
> > > > > they are all neutered anyway, so she wouldn't get too far there.
>
> > > > > My main concern is that if I do have her spayed, that she will not
> > > > > feel like feeding her kitten's, & I wondered if I was being a bit too
> > > > > premature by getting her spayed so soon? @ 6 weeks, I am certain that
> > > > > the kittens will be able to cope without breast milk, But am I being a
> > > > > bit too hasty, for fear that she might get out & get pregnant again?
>
> > > > > She is displaying every single sign of Estrus, including crying,
> > > > > calling like a Banshee, Wiping her face on any surface she can find,
> > > > > rolling on the ground, & also marking, which is something that I have
> > > > > heard of female cats doing, but never witnessed it before, ...& also
> > > > > trying anything that she can to try & get away from her kittens, not
> > > > > feed them, & attract any passing male. Of course this does not include
> > > > > the line of tom cats that we have lined up @ the garden gate, which is
> > > > > a pretty good sign that *they are taking her seriously*?!!
>
> > > > > I would appreciate your thoughts on this please?
>
> > > > > Thanks in advance,
>
> > > > > S;o)
>
> > > > She and most especially the toms are telling you that she is
> > > > definitely in heat.:)
>
> > > > I'd wait on the spaying if you can possibly stand it. Spaying during
> > > > estrus is a little riskier than when not in heat, and from what you've
> > > > said she wasn't in the best circumstances before. Also, the kittens
> > > > ought to be allowed to nurse some and not be completely weaned until
> > > > eight weeks, especially from such a disadvantaged (i.e.,
> > > > undernourished) background, and I would not bet a bad penny on her
> > > > being willing to nurse after surgery. Yes, the kittens would probably
> > > > "cope", but from what I've seen it makes a big difference in their
> > > > social and physical development, to be allowed to nurse as long as
> > > > mummy will tolerate it.
>
> > > > As you've said, none of your cats can get her pregnant even if she
> > > > gets out and mixes with them; she'd have to get all the way out of the
> > > > house.
>
> > > > Get some earplugs, maybe? :)
>
> > > > <ducks and runs>
>
> > > > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > She and most especially the toms are telling you that she is
> > > > definitely in heat.:)
>
> > > I thought that might be the case. Thank you Lis!
>
> > > No, she hasn't got a hope in heaven of getting out again or getting
> > > pregnant, so here comes the ear plugs & a restful night's sleep again,
> > > Lol:o)
> > > Good God they know how to howl...!!?
>
> > Hey, she's got to attract as many males as possible to fight for her
> > favors, so that she gets the best, strongest, healthiest father(s) for
> > her next litter, right?:)
>
> > > Thank you for that advice. I thought that might be the case, but
> > > decided to check all the same to be sure that it was worth while
> > > waiting before getting them done. You are right regarding Mummy & the
> > > lack of food though & the breast feeding. I'm not sure if you have
> > > seen the photos of these cats, but if you have, you will note that
> > > mummy is quite thin really for only 2 kittens in her litter ( that
> > > were found over a 3 day period by the cat protection league).....
>
> > Yes, she's nice-looking cat but a bit thin, considering.
>
> > > The Advice and opinion is greatly appreciated Lis, thank you,
>
> > Good luck to you, Mummy, and the kittens. Here's some pictures in
> > return--my two cats and the newest member of the household, my dog,
> > Addy.http://picasaweb.google.com/lis.carey/AddyRetsinaAndAquavit?authkey=B...
>
> > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> your 2 cats are lovely, i just love the white and black one, a bit
> like my jasper was, kind of like a friesian cow! her fur looks so soft
> and thick and plush too
>
> what is that dog though? cannot recognise the breed or is he a
> mixture?
> bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I had a similar one like that cat too. His name was Arzhosa & he was
only just over a year old when we found out that he was riddled with
tumours. We got him from Wood Green Animal Shelter, & like you say, he
had a wonderful soft coat as well. Needless to say that when we found
out that he had the tumours, it was already too late to save him;o( we
were told that he had maybe just over a fortnight... possibly...We
spent an extra week with him, before having to take him back to the
vet to be put to sleep.

Some might argue that I didn't have the right to do that, but I didn't
have the stomach or heart to hang on to him on his pain meds, only to
either overdose, or find him dead one morning dead; or worse, one of
the kids finding him dead.

It was one of those horrible tear jerking moments when he went limp in
Paul's arms.
I think that is the Only downside to sharing your family and life with
cats/dogs. Our life span being so much longer normally, makes it
inevitable that we end up having to part with them. It is such a hard
thing to do, isn't it?

(It was his cat really- he found him, fell in love with him & cared
for him too. In fact he was the *only cat allowed to sleep on the bed
in those early days*- These days it is more a case of fighting for bed
space with all of them )

Friesian is a wonderful description though, because that is exactly
what he did look like:o)

S;o)

Vinko Bogataj
May 18th 07, 09:52 PM
On May 17, 3:03 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone knows whether it is possible for a lactating
> queen to come into Estrus?

You mean Paul?

Lis
May 18th 07, 09:53 PM
On May 18, 2:15 pm, bookie > wrote:
> On 18 May, 14:12, Lis > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 18, 2:14 am, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > On 17 May, 20:37, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > > On May 17, 3:03 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > > > I was wondering if anyone knows whether it is possible for a lactating
> > > > > queen with 6 week old kittens can come into Estrus? I have 2 queens
> > > > > here that are still feeding their kittens. Tahnee who is due to be
> > > > > spayed on Friday,( the queen that adopted our baby Birman kittens) &
> > > > > also the second rescue queen, who's kittens are now 6 weeks old & I
> > > > > have just started to wean them. They are still feeding from mummy cat,
> > > > > but that is because of necessity because there was no one feeding her,
> > > > > never mind her kittens!! I feed them with meat & milk mixed together
>
> > > > > Now that I have them here I started them on Cimmi-Cat kitty formula
> > > > > and also whiskers kitten pouches of wet eat too & they seem to love
> > > > > it. I have to feed mummy separately otherwise she would eat the
> > > > > kittens share too!I feed them with meat & milk mixed together on a
> > > > > baking tray so that they get covered in it, because they really do
> > > > > seem to enjoy cleaning one another & it seems to help with bonding
> > > > > process- I was wondering if it would be best to wait until the kittens
> > > > > are fully weaned, or whether to take her down to the vet surgery on
> > > > > Friday to be done at the same time as Tahnee is?
>
> > > > > I have called my vet to ask advice, but he told me that it is my
> > > > > decision to make, because we both know that there is no chance of her
> > > > > becoming pregnant because she is penned, & even if she did by some
> > > > > dreadful stroke of luck, she did get out & mixed with our other cats,
> > > > > they are all neutered anyway, so she wouldn't get too far there.
>
> > > > > My main concern is that if I do have her spayed, that she will not
> > > > > feel like feeding her kitten's, & I wondered if I was being a bit too
> > > > > premature by getting her spayed so soon? @ 6 weeks, I am certain that
> > > > > the kittens will be able to cope without breast milk, But am I being a
> > > > > bit too hasty, for fear that she might get out & get pregnant again?
>
> > > > > She is displaying every single sign of Estrus, including crying,
> > > > > calling like a Banshee, Wiping her face on any surface she can find,
> > > > > rolling on the ground, & also marking, which is something that I have
> > > > > heard of female cats doing, but never witnessed it before, ...& also
> > > > > trying anything that she can to try & get away from her kittens, not
> > > > > feed them, & attract any passing male. Of course this does not include
> > > > > the line of tom cats that we have lined up @ the garden gate, which is
> > > > > a pretty good sign that *they are taking her seriously*?!!
>
> > > > > I would appreciate your thoughts on this please?
>
> > > > > Thanks in advance,
>
> > > > > S;o)
>
> > > > She and most especially the toms are telling you that she is
> > > > definitely in heat.:)
>
> > > > I'd wait on the spaying if you can possibly stand it. Spaying during
> > > > estrus is a little riskier than when not in heat, and from what you've
> > > > said she wasn't in the best circumstances before. Also, the kittens
> > > > ought to be allowed to nurse some and not be completely weaned until
> > > > eight weeks, especially from such a disadvantaged (i.e.,
> > > > undernourished) background, and I would not bet a bad penny on her
> > > > being willing to nurse after surgery. Yes, the kittens would probably
> > > > "cope", but from what I've seen it makes a big difference in their
> > > > social and physical development, to be allowed to nurse as long as
> > > > mummy will tolerate it.
>
> > > > As you've said, none of your cats can get her pregnant even if she
> > > > gets out and mixes with them; she'd have to get all the way out of the
> > > > house.
>
> > > > Get some earplugs, maybe? :)
>
> > > > <ducks and runs>
>
> > > > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > She and most especially the toms are telling you that she is
> > > > definitely in heat.:)
>
> > > I thought that might be the case. Thank you Lis!
>
> > > No, she hasn't got a hope in heaven of getting out again or getting
> > > pregnant, so here comes the ear plugs & a restful night's sleep again,
> > > Lol:o)
> > > Good God they know how to howl...!!?
>
> > Hey, she's got to attract as many males as possible to fight for her
> > favors, so that she gets the best, strongest, healthiest father(s) for
> > her next litter, right?:)
>
> > > Thank you for that advice. I thought that might be the case, but
> > > decided to check all the same to be sure that it was worth while
> > > waiting before getting them done. You are right regarding Mummy & the
> > > lack of food though & the breast feeding. I'm not sure if you have
> > > seen the photos of these cats, but if you have, you will note that
> > > mummy is quite thin really for only 2 kittens in her litter ( that
> > > were found over a 3 day period by the cat protection league).....
>
> > Yes, she's nice-looking cat but a bit thin, considering.
>
> > > The Advice and opinion is greatly appreciated Lis, thank you,
>
> > Good luck to you, Mummy, and the kittens. Here's some pictures in
> > return--my two cats and the newest member of the household, my dog,
> > Addy.http://picasaweb.google.com/lis.carey/AddyRetsinaAndAquavit?authkey=B...
>
> > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> your 2 cats are lovely, i just love the white and black one, a bit
> like my jasper was, kind of like a friesian cow! her fur looks so soft
> and thick and plush too
>
> what is that dog though? cannot recognise the breed or is he a
> mixture?
> bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thank you! Retsina (the white and black one) does have incredibly
soft, thick fur.

The dog, Addy, is a purebred Chinese Crested Powderpuff. And she's a
girl, she wants you to know!:) The Chinese Crested breed is more
famous, of course, for its hairless members. Most hairless breeds have
a fully-coated variety; the Chinese Crested is the only one where the
coated variety is long-hair rather than short-hair. Here's a site that
has pictures of some lovely Cresteds, both Hairless and Powderpuff:
http://shikadin.ourdogs.net/cresteds/

A lot of what you'll read will say that they're an ancient breed, but
really, there was a hairless dog that varied a lot in size and
appearance, and in the 1920s & 1930s a woman in Florida and a man in
New York decided to do something with it. Poodles, Papillons, and
Westies, among others, were deeply implicated in the creation of the
current Chinese Crested. That's why they have the Pap ears, the Poodle
face (when shaved to the standard), the Poodle gene for PRA...

Best,

Lis

sheelagh
May 18th 07, 10:21 PM
On 18 May, 18:16, Lis > wrote:
> On May 18, 10:48 am, sheelagh > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 18 May, 14:12, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > On May 18, 2:14 am, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > > On 17 May, 20:37, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > > > On May 17, 3:03 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > > > > I was wondering if anyone knows whether it is possible for a lactating
> > > > > > queen with 6 week old kittens can come into Estrus? I have 2 queens
> > > > > > here that are still feeding their kittens. Tahnee who is due to be
> > > > > > spayed on Friday,( the queen that adopted our baby Birman kittens) &
> > > > > > also the second rescue queen, who's kittens are now 6 weeks old & I
> > > > > > have just started to wean them. They are still feeding from mummy cat,
> > > > > > but that is because of necessity because there was no one feeding her,
> > > > > > never mind her kittens!! I feed them with meat & milk mixed together
>
> > > > > > Now that I have them here I started them on Cimmi-Cat kitty formula
> > > > > > and also whiskers kitten pouches of wet eat too & they seem to love
> > > > > > it. I have to feed mummy separately otherwise she would eat the
> > > > > > kittens share too!I feed them with meat & milk mixed together on a
> > > > > > baking tray so that they get covered in it, because they really do
> > > > > > seem to enjoy cleaning one another & it seems to help with bonding
> > > > > > process- I was wondering if it would be best to wait until the kittens
> > > > > > are fully weaned, or whether to take her down to the vet surgery on
> > > > > > Friday to be done at the same time as Tahnee is?
>
> > > > > > I have called my vet to ask advice, but he told me that it is my
> > > > > > decision to make, because we both know that there is no chance of her
> > > > > > becoming pregnant because she is penned, & even if she did by some
> > > > > > dreadful stroke of luck, she did get out & mixed with our other cats,
> > > > > > they are all neutered anyway, so she wouldn't get too far there.
>
> > > > > > My main concern is that if I do have her spayed, that she will not
> > > > > > feel like feeding her kitten's, & I wondered if I was being a bit too
> > > > > > premature by getting her spayed so soon? @ 6 weeks, I am certain that
> > > > > > the kittens will be able to cope without breast milk, But am I being a
> > > > > > bit too hasty, for fear that she might get out & get pregnant again?
>
> > > > > > She is displaying every single sign of Estrus, including crying,
> > > > > > calling like a Banshee, Wiping her face on any surface she can find,
> > > > > > rolling on the ground, & also marking, which is something that I have
> > > > > > heard of female cats doing, but never witnessed it before, ...& also
> > > > > > trying anything that she can to try & get away from her kittens, not
> > > > > > feed them, & attract any passing male. Of course this does not include
> > > > > > the line of tom cats that we have lined up @ the garden gate, which is
> > > > > > a pretty good sign that *they are taking her seriously*?!!
>
> > > > > > I would appreciate your thoughts on this please?
>
> > > > > > Thanks in advance,
>
> > > > > > S;o)
>
> > > > > She and most especially the toms are telling you that she is
> > > > > definitely in heat.:)
>
> > > > > I'd wait on the spaying if you can possibly stand it. Spaying during
> > > > > estrus is a little riskier than when not in heat, and from what you've
> > > > > said she wasn't in the best circumstances before. Also, the kittens
> > > > > ought to be allowed to nurse some and not be completely weaned until
> > > > > eight weeks, especially from such a disadvantaged (i.e.,
> > > > > undernourished) background, and I would not bet a bad penny on her
> > > > > being willing to nurse after surgery. Yes, the kittens would probably
> > > > > "cope", but from what I've seen it makes a big difference in their
> > > > > social and physical development, to be allowed to nurse as long as
> > > > > mummy will tolerate it.
>
> > > > > As you've said, none of your cats can get her pregnant even if she
> > > > > gets out and mixes with them; she'd have to get all the way out of the
> > > > > house.
>
> > > > > Get some earplugs, maybe? :)
>
> > > > > <ducks and runs>
>
> > > > > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > She and most especially the toms are telling you that she is
> > > > > definitely in heat.:)
>
> > > > I thought that might be the case. Thank you Lis!
>
> > > > No, she hasn't got a hope in heaven of getting out again or getting
> > > > pregnant, so here comes the ear plugs & a restful night's sleep again,
> > > > Lol:o)
> > > > Good God they know how to howl...!!?
>
> > > Hey, she's got to attract as many males as possible to fight for her
> > > favors, so that she gets the best, strongest, healthiest father(s) for
> > > her next litter, right?:)
>
> > > > Thank you for that advice. I thought that might be the case, but
> > > > decided to check all the same to be sure that it was worth while
> > > > waiting before getting them done. You are right regarding Mummy & the
> > > > lack of food though & the breast feeding. I'm not sure if you have
> > > > seen the photos of these cats, but if you have, you will note that
> > > > mummy is quite thin really for only 2 kittens in her litter ( that
> > > > were found over a 3 day period by the cat protection league).....
>
> > > Yes, she's nice-looking cat but a bit thin, considering.
>
> > > > The Advice and opinion is greatly appreciated Lis, thank you,
>
> > > Good luck to you, Mummy, and the kittens. Here's some pictures in
> > > return--my two cats and the newest member of the household, my dog,
> > > Addy.http://picasaweb.google.com/lis.carey/AddyRetsinaAndAquavit?authkey=B...
>
> > > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Wow! They look really nice. Thank you for sharing with me. I love
> > them;o)
>
> > My kids have been asking for a Dog for a long time, but I keep up the
> > excuse that it really isn't ideal because we have cats. My youngest
> > daughter just kindly pointed out to me that you seem to have no such
> > problems, so it is simply me being difficult...
>
> > DRAT IT!!
> > I have thwarted once again, LOL
>
> Bwa-ha-ha-ha! We loves making trouble, we does!:)
>
> We always had both dogs and cats when I was growing up, at least from
> the time I was ten or so. Most dogs will do well with cats, at least
> the household cats, if they're raised with them. Some breeds are a
> better bet than others, though. Terriers and sighthounds tend to have
> really strong prey drives and a fast-moving cat can trigger their prey
> instincts. Other breeds, like for a random example Chinese Cresteds:)
> are generally particularly good with cats and other small household
> pets. They're not much bigger than cats, themselves, after all. Addy's
> 12.5 pounds, a little on the big side for a Crested. Aquavit is a
> moderately-sized Maine Coon, about 11 pounds. But you can see that
> even Retsina, a mere six pounds, has no particular difficulty with
> her. Cresteds, all in all, are very good family pets; they love to run
> and play and walk, AND they love to curl up on the couch with you. The
> downside is, either you get a Powderpuff (thick double coat, lots of
> hair care) or you get a Hairless (lots of skin care, even if it's a
> Hairy Hairless (long single coat over much but not all of the body.))
>
> Addy's an adult, by the way, adopted after a (very short) failed
> career as a show dog.
>
> I'm a firm believer that every kid is entitled to have a dog to walk
> with, but it's got to be a dog that Mom finds acceptable, because
> there is no household on earth, where there is a functioning mother in
> residence, where Mom does not wind up responsible for the dog's basic
> care. So while you're admitting to your kids that I strongly encourage
> it, you can also tell them I said Mom Rules. My first dog would have
> been a disaster if not for my mother handling basic training; my
> second dog was a cocker spaniel because the first dog's final illness
> convinced her that the household dog need to be small enough for her
> to pick up and carry in an emergency. (The first dog was a border
> collie mix--solid, muscular, and while not huge, well, my mother and I
> both have to look up to see five feet.)
>
> My sister has a Labrador now, because she wanted a dog sturdy enough
> for running, and for winter, and for playing with my niece, without an
> excessive amount of coat care. I have a Crested because I have a small
> house, no yard, wanted a walking companion that might be good for dog
> agility, too, and I enjoy spending some time every evening combing and
> brushing my pets. The Lab is also great with my mother's aging cat,
> too, by the way.
>
> You need to know what you need from a dog--in your case, first of all,
> good with cats--and you need to know what you want from a dog--couch
> potato, walking companion, gun dog, extreme doggy sports
> enthusiast...? And then you need to tell all of that, very clearly, to
> every shelter, rescue, or breeder you talk to. But, heck, you know a
> lot of that; you've been on the other side of it with cats, placing
> your kittens in suitable homes.
>
> But I'm all for kids, cats, and canines in the same household.
>
> > S:o)
> > Tilly has also asked me to convey the fact that she thinks Addy is her
> > personal favourite too.....
>
> I'll tell Addy, but I'll spare Aquavit and Retsina the Awful News.:)
>
> > PS: Thanks for the advice- Hide quoted text -
>
> Glad to. (As you can see; I've done it again.:()
>
> Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I bet you have a right old riot at times between them, Lol. I don't
mean it in the violent description, rather in the pack of scamps
scheme of events....

I have often thought & considered thier request for a dog, but my only
experience with them was a daschund that my parents had when we lived
in Africa, & as you say, she was never my dog really, because my
parents cared for her. I loved her, but after having her, I got bitten
quite badly once when I was around 9 years old.

I was running away from 3 Alsatians that caught up with me & took a
nasty chunk out of the back of my thigh, whilst the others mauled my
arm & torso. I hadent done anything wrong, other than to pass thier
house... & I felt fearful for no explicable reason, so I started
running home. This seemed to be the Que for the dogs to follow me and
hunt me down about 5 houses down......

There was no one around to help, but I screamed all the same &
eventually some one's gardener heard me & came to my rescue with a
rather large stick that was enough to convince them to leave me
alone!! It took 60 stitches in my leg, another 40 in my arm,68 in my
wrist & a final 36 in in my torso to mend the damage they made, then
further plastic surgery to hide the marks that they left....

I have never really felt able to trust any dog since then. I wouldn't
say that I am scared of them, but I would say that I don't trust them
entirely, & certainly not around my children....

You could say that this one isolated incident shouldn't cloud my
judgment. However, I don't want to convey my fear to my children,
because I do realise that what happened to me was a pack instinctual
thing- I am certain that they sensed my fear...? I don't want them to
feel the same way that I do towards dogs. I have never told them about
this incident for this very reason.

I would love to talk to you some other time about dogs in general, if
you wouldn't mind of course? you seem fairly knowledgeable about dogs
in general. I think it would be a very good idea to sit down & work
out exactly what we are all looking for with regard to a breed, or
even a mongrel....It isn't important that it is a pure breed really at
all....( there are so many @ our local shelter, & they all need homes.
They charge around 70 all spayed & inocculated , so that is very good
value I think, in an exchange for a companion for life, don't you?
($150)
(we call them Heinz 57's, lol...A little bit of everything!!)

Once we have, I will let you know roughly what we are looking for &
perhaps you wouldn't mind pointing us in the right direction,
regarding what the mix of the breed is & whether or not it might be,
or not be, the right dog for us?

I**Refuse** to allow that one instant to stop my kids enjoying what
should be a normal experience for them. I take on board what you say
regarding the fact that either Paul or I will be the main carer for
the dog too!! Is it true what they say about a dog requires one master
only? The other thing that needs to be thought of is the fact that our
elder kids will be leaving home in the next 3 or so years, which
leaves Tilly(11yesterday), & Jack(13) here to care for that dog. I
guess what they are looking for in the dog is important too? There is
always the possibility that when they leave home, they might want to
take the dog with them? I guess that shouldn't need addressing just
yet LOL;o)

Thanks for sharing that Info Lis. It has opened a gateway that I
refused to look at before now, for fear alone. I was too frightened to
consider the thought @ all!!!

S;o)
PS:You can tell Aquavit & Retsina that I think they are STUNNING....

sheelagh
May 18th 07, 11:19 PM
On 18 May, 21:52, Vinko Bogataj > wrote:
> On May 17, 3:03 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > I was wondering if anyone knows whether it is possible for a lactating
> > queen to come into Estrus?
>
> You mean Paul?

LOL, no......

Only you would think that way Nick,
Best Wishes,
S;o)

bookie
May 19th 07, 01:02 AM
On 18 May, 21:37, sheelagh > wrote:
> On 18 May, 19:15, bookie > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 18 May, 14:12, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > On May 18, 2:14 am, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > > On 17 May, 20:37, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > > > On May 17, 3:03 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > > > > I was wondering if anyone knows whether it is possible for a lactating
> > > > > > queen with 6 week old kittens can come into Estrus? I have 2 queens
> > > > > > here that are still feeding their kittens. Tahnee who is due to be
> > > > > > spayed on Friday,( the queen that adopted our baby Birman kittens) &
> > > > > > also the second rescue queen, who's kittens are now 6 weeks old & I
> > > > > > have just started to wean them. They are still feeding from mummy cat,
> > > > > > but that is because of necessity because there was no one feeding her,
> > > > > > never mind her kittens!! I feed them with meat & milk mixed together
>
> > > > > > Now that I have them here I started them on Cimmi-Cat kitty formula
> > > > > > and also whiskers kitten pouches of wet eat too & they seem to love
> > > > > > it. I have to feed mummy separately otherwise she would eat the
> > > > > > kittens share too!I feed them with meat & milk mixed together on a
> > > > > > baking tray so that they get covered in it, because they really do
> > > > > > seem to enjoy cleaning one another & it seems to help with bonding
> > > > > > process- I was wondering if it would be best to wait until the kittens
> > > > > > are fully weaned, or whether to take her down to the vet surgery on
> > > > > > Friday to be done at the same time as Tahnee is?
>
> > > > > > I have called my vet to ask advice, but he told me that it is my
> > > > > > decision to make, because we both know that there is no chance of her
> > > > > > becoming pregnant because she is penned, & even if she did by some
> > > > > > dreadful stroke of luck, she did get out & mixed with our other cats,
> > > > > > they are all neutered anyway, so she wouldn't get too far there.
>
> > > > > > My main concern is that if I do have her spayed, that she will not
> > > > > > feel like feeding her kitten's, & I wondered if I was being a bit too
> > > > > > premature by getting her spayed so soon? @ 6 weeks, I am certain that
> > > > > > the kittens will be able to cope without breast milk, But am I being a
> > > > > > bit too hasty, for fear that she might get out & get pregnant again?
>
> > > > > > She is displaying every single sign of Estrus, including crying,
> > > > > > calling like a Banshee, Wiping her face on any surface she can find,
> > > > > > rolling on the ground, & also marking, which is something that I have
> > > > > > heard of female cats doing, but never witnessed it before, ...& also
> > > > > > trying anything that she can to try & get away from her kittens, not
> > > > > > feed them, & attract any passing male. Of course this does not include
> > > > > > the line of tom cats that we have lined up @ the garden gate, which is
> > > > > > a pretty good sign that *they are taking her seriously*?!!
>
> > > > > > I would appreciate your thoughts on this please?
>
> > > > > > Thanks in advance,
>
> > > > > > S;o)
>
> > > > > She and most especially the toms are telling you that she is
> > > > > definitely in heat.:)
>
> > > > > I'd wait on the spaying if you can possibly stand it. Spaying during
> > > > > estrus is a little riskier than when not in heat, and from what you've
> > > > > said she wasn't in the best circumstances before. Also, the kittens
> > > > > ought to be allowed to nurse some and not be completely weaned until
> > > > > eight weeks, especially from such a disadvantaged (i.e.,
> > > > > undernourished) background, and I would not bet a bad penny on her
> > > > > being willing to nurse after surgery. Yes, the kittens would probably
> > > > > "cope", but from what I've seen it makes a big difference in their
> > > > > social and physical development, to be allowed to nurse as long as
> > > > > mummy will tolerate it.
>
> > > > > As you've said, none of your cats can get her pregnant even if she
> > > > > gets out and mixes with them; she'd have to get all the way out of the
> > > > > house.
>
> > > > > Get some earplugs, maybe? :)
>
> > > > > <ducks and runs>
>
> > > > > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > She and most especially the toms are telling you that she is
> > > > > definitely in heat.:)
>
> > > > I thought that might be the case. Thank you Lis!
>
> > > > No, she hasn't got a hope in heaven of getting out again or getting
> > > > pregnant, so here comes the ear plugs & a restful night's sleep again,
> > > > Lol:o)
> > > > Good God they know how to howl...!!?
>
> > > Hey, she's got to attract as many males as possible to fight for her
> > > favors, so that she gets the best, strongest, healthiest father(s) for
> > > her next litter, right?:)
>
> > > > Thank you for that advice. I thought that might be the case, but
> > > > decided to check all the same to be sure that it was worth while
> > > > waiting before getting them done. You are right regarding Mummy & the
> > > > lack of food though & the breast feeding. I'm not sure if you have
> > > > seen the photos of these cats, but if you have, you will note that
> > > > mummy is quite thin really for only 2 kittens in her litter ( that
> > > > were found over a 3 day period by the cat protection league).....
>
> > > Yes, she's nice-looking cat but a bit thin, considering.
>
> > > > The Advice and opinion is greatly appreciated Lis, thank you,
>
> > > Good luck to you, Mummy, and the kittens. Here's some pictures in
> > > return--my two cats and the newest member of the household, my dog,
> > > Addy.http://picasaweb.google.com/lis.carey/AddyRetsinaAndAquavit?authkey=B...
>
> > > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > your 2 cats are lovely, i just love the white and black one, a bit
> > like my jasper was, kind of like a friesian cow! her fur looks so soft
> > and thick and plush too
>
> > what is that dog though? cannot recognise the breed or is he a
> > mixture?
> > bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I had a similar one like that cat too. His name was Arzhosa & he was
> only just over a year old when we found out that he was riddled with
> tumours. We got him from Wood Green Animal Shelter, & like you say, he
> had a wonderful soft coat as well. Needless to say that when we found
> out that he had the tumours, it was already too late to save him;o( we
> were told that he had maybe just over a fortnight... possibly...We
> spent an extra week with him, before having to take him back to the
> vet to be put to sleep.
>
> Some might argue that I didn't have the right to do that, but I didn't
> have the stomach or heart to hang on to him on his pain meds, only to
> either overdose, or find him dead one morning dead; or worse, one of
> the kids finding him dead.
>
> It was one of those horrible tear jerking moments when he went limp in
> Paul's arms.
> I think that is the Only downside to sharing your family and life with
> cats/dogs. Our life span being so much longer normally, makes it
> inevitable that we end up having to part with them. It is such a hard
> thing to do, isn't it?
>
> (It was his cat really- he found him, fell in love with him & cared
> for him too. In fact he was the *only cat allowed to sleep on the bed
> in those early days*- These days it is more a case of fighting for bed
> space with all of them )
>
> Friesian is a wonderful description though, because that is exactly
> what he did look like:o)
>
> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

yes thats just like jasper who developed a tumour in his bladder and
had to be put to sleep in the end. If i had kept him alive longer than
I did (andi kept him alive for 2 weeks too long in my view now in
hindsight) it woudl have been very selfish of me, he was miserable and
in pain and only an owner who has known the cat in life and knows what
that cat is normally like and it's real personality before the illness
can see the change. Anyone who says you were selfish to put him to
sleep obviusly has not had to deal with a very sick animal who is not
going to get better and is in real pain and just wants to be allowed
to die.

jasper's tumour was far too big by the time they found it and to
remove it they would probably have had to take out his bladder too, so
that together with the fact that he was very old anyway and might not
have survived an operation, made the decision for us; let him live
until it becomes too much for him then bring him in when his quality
of life has deteriorated too far. I cherished those last few months
with him and he got treats and prawns and cuddles every single day, he
had the best chair in the house without question so even visitors sat
onthe floor at times. inthe last few weeks he was not the same cat and
there was no option and I think that anyone who has been inthe same
place as I was then would realise that letting him go was actually
doing him a favour, NOT a selfish act because i couldn't be bothered
to look after him. believe me if there was any cure at all for his
tumour, whatever the price i would have gone for it but there was
nothing anyone coudl do except help him on his way and stop his pain.

sometimes I wish it would be possible to do that for humans in pain
with terminal illness, it is selfish to keep them alive.

my only regret is that I didn't let him go earlier, maybe a week
earlier than I did, i was probably in denial of the fact that there
really was no hope. I hope i have the strength to let jessie go before
she suffers and not be selfish and try to hang on to her longer than
is really fair. I would only be keeping her alive for my sake anyway,
not hers, and that would be selfish.

bookie

i am so sad
May 19th 07, 01:33 AM
"Cheryl" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu 17 May 2007 03:54:23p, GODEATER wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> >:
>
>> the pic labeled "mummy,where are you?" looks EXACTLY like my
>> dear departed boogers.
>> is it male or female?
>> does he/she need a good home?
>> i live in the washington D.C. area.
>
> I'm also in the DC area and can probably hook you up with a kitten
> that looks like Boogers, or another that you might latch on to. A
> woman in my town is single handedly trying to move a feral colony and
> since it's spring, there are many kittens. Let me know if you want
> me to hook you up with her. I'm in Bowie.
>
> --
> Cheryl
>
>got a male black and white tiger kitty?
i want a young baby.

Lis
May 19th 07, 11:07 AM
On May 18, 5:21 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
> On 18 May, 18:16, Lis > wrote:

<snip lots and lots>

> > I'm a firm believer that every kid is entitled to have a dog to walk
> > with, but it's got to be a dog that Mom finds acceptable, because
> > there is no household on earth, where there is a functioning mother in
> > residence, where Mom does not wind up responsible for the dog's basic
> > care. So while you're admitting to your kids that I strongly encourage
> > it, you can also tell them I said Mom Rules. My first dog would have
> > been a disaster if not for my mother handling basic training; my
> > second dog was a cocker spaniel because the first dog's final illness
> > convinced her that the household dog need to be small enough for her
> > to pick up and carry in an emergency. (The first dog was a border
> > collie mix--solid, muscular, and while not huge, well, my mother and I
> > both have to look up to see five feet.)
>
> > My sister has a Labrador now, because she wanted a dog sturdy enough
> > for running, and for winter, and for playing with my niece, without an
> > excessive amount of coat care. I have a Crested because I have a small
> > house, no yard, wanted a walking companion that might be good for dog
> > agility, too, and I enjoy spending some time every evening combing and
> > brushing my pets. The Lab is also great with my mother's aging cat,
> > too, by the way.
>
> > You need to know what you need from a dog--in your case, first of all,
> > good with cats--and you need to know what you want from a dog--couch
> > potato, walking companion, gun dog, extreme doggy sports
> > enthusiast...? And then you need to tell all of that, very clearly, to
> > every shelter, rescue, or breeder you talk to. But, heck, you know a
> > lot of that; you've been on the other side of it with cats, placing
> > your kittens in suitable homes.
>
> > But I'm all for kids, cats, and canines in the same household.
>
> > > S:o)
> > > Tilly has also asked me to convey the fact that she thinks Addy is her
> > > personal favourite too.....
>
> > I'll tell Addy, but I'll spare Aquavit and Retsina the Awful News.:)
>
> > > PS: Thanks for the advice- Hide quoted text -
>
> > Glad to. (As you can see; I've done it again.:()
>
> > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I bet you have a right old riot at times between them, Lol. I don't
> mean it in the violent description, rather in the pack of scamps
> scheme of events....
>
> I have often thought & considered thier request for a dog, but my only
> experience with them was a daschund that my parents had when we lived
> in Africa, & as you say, she was never my dog really, because my
> parents cared for her. I loved her, but after having her, I got bitten
> quite badly once when I was around 9 years old.

Dachshunds, I should probably mention, are not a good combination with
cats. Strong prey drive, strong jaws, can get in places most dogs
can't. Great with people, though.

> I was running away from 3 Alsatians that caught up with me & took a
> nasty chunk out of the back of my thigh, whilst the others mauled my
> arm & torso. I hadent done anything wrong, other than to pass thier
> house... & I felt fearful for no explicable reason, so I started
> running home. This seemed to be the Que for the dogs to follow me and
> hunt me down about 5 houses down......

This is no help now, of course, but what you did is, you started
running. It's a natural impulse if you're afraid of a big dog ( or in
this case dogs, even scarier), and sadly, it's about the worst thing
possible. If you'd continue walking calmly, you'd almost certainly
have been fine. (So, a nine-year-old would know this how, exactly?:( )
But the dogs should have been securely confined to their own property,
and not ABLE to get out and harass and threaten innocent passers-by.

Alsatians are great dogs, but not for either careless owners, or
people without dog experience.

> There was no one around to help, but I screamed all the same &
> eventually some one's gardener heard me & came to my rescue with a
> rather large stick that was enough to convince them to leave me
> alone!! It took 60 stitches in my leg, another 40 in my arm,68 in my
> wrist & a final 36 in in my torso to mend the damage they made, then
> further plastic surgery to hide the marks that they left....
>
> I have never really felt able to trust any dog since then. I wouldn't
> say that I am scared of them, but I would say that I don't trust them
> entirely, & certainly not around my children....

Oh, naturally! What a terrifying experience!

My one experience of being bitten was when I was about five. We were
living on the top floor of a triple-decker, and the family in the
apartment below had a dog--female, and not spayed. She had a litter of
puppies, and one day she had the puppies on the wide spot of the back
stairs. I was coming in from outside, and ran up the stairs--not
afraid, just running because I was running, not paying any attention
to the dog...who interpreted this running human as a threat to her
puppies, and bit me on the rear. No blood shed, just a nasty bruise,
but it hurt!

My father didn't know who to be angrier with, the idiots downstairs
for letting their dog nurse her puppies on the back stairs that
everyone had to use, or me for not paying attention, and doing
something that even a little kid should have figured out would scare
the dog!

> You could say that this one isolated incident shouldn't cloud my
> judgment. However, I don't want to convey my fear to my children,
> because I do realise that what happened to me was a pack instinctual
> thing- I am certain that they sensed my fear...? I don't want them to
> feel the same way that I do towards dogs. I have never told them about
> this incident for this very reason.

I was afraid of unfamiliar dogs for a few years after my much less
painful and, even to a kid, much more understandable experience.

> I would love to talk to you some other time about dogs in general, if
> you wouldn't mind of course? you seem fairly knowledgeable about dogs
> in general. I think it would be a very good idea to sit down & work
> out exactly what we are all looking for with regard to a breed, or
> even a mongrel....It isn't important that it is a pure breed really at
> all....( there are so many @ our local shelter, & they all need homes.
> They charge around 70 all spayed & inocculated , so that is very good
> value I think, in an exchange for a companion for life, don't you?
> ($150)
> (we call them Heinz 57's, lol...A little bit of everything!!)

A mutt from a shelter can be a great pet. Often you can adopt an
adult, or a puppy past the "cute" stage, have a good idea of the size,
the adult coat, the adult personality, and skip the house-training
stage. Or at least have house-training go more quickly, because the
dog has a longer attention span and greater physical ability to "hold
it." A good shelter will give you the background they have on the dog,
and be able to help personality-match the dog to the family.

Or you can get a cute puppy, and have the cute-puppy fun as well as
the extra work. In some parts of the US, there aren't a lot of puppies
in shelters (both here in New England, and out in California, shelters
bring in puppies from shelters in the southern states, where they have
an excess.) I don't know what it's like in the UK.

Where having a purebred can be important is if you have very specific
needs (I have absolutely no space for a bigger, high-energy dog like
my beloved first dog Sunday, a border collie mix), or if you want to
participate in some kinds of activiities. If you and Paul and the
younger kids decide that dog agility might be a fun thing for them to
be involved in, for instance, you may need a purebred. I know the AKC
only allows purebreds to compete in their agility competitions; I
suspect the KCGB is the same.

> Once we have, I will let you know roughly what we are looking for &
> perhaps you wouldn't mind pointing us in the right direction,
> regarding what the mix of the breed is & whether or not it might be,
> or not be, the right dog for us?

I would love to talk to you about dogs. Or perhaps I should say, "Try
shutting me up!":)

> I**Refuse** to allow that one instant to stop my kids enjoying what
> should be a normal experience for them. I take on board what you say
> regarding the fact that either Paul or I will be the main carer for
> the dog too!! Is it true what they say about a dog requires one master
> only?

A dog needs to know what its place in the pack is--and the correct
answer to that is "after all the people in the household." ALL of
them. (The dog needs this not just to be safe, but to be happy. If
they don't see what the pack structure is, they'll think they have to
be the pack leader--and they're not equipped to run a human pack.)
Some dogs have a greater tendency than others to attach to one person
as the primary handler/companion, and it's more common in some breeds
than others. Those Alsatians, for instance. Other breeds, like most of
the retrievers, have softer personalities, and tend to work out better
with families with kids and little dog experience.

> The other thing that needs to be thought of is the fact that our
> elder kids will be leaving home in the next 3 or so years, which
> leaves Tilly(11yesterday), & Jack(13) here to care for that dog. I
> guess what they are looking for in the dog is important too?

Oh, definitely. The whole family needs to be considered, but most
importantly the people who'll be spending the most time with the dog.
And that's you and Paul, and the younger kids, unless one of the older
kids is looking for a dog that they'll be taking with them when they
leave.

And remember the First Rule: Never Surprise Anyone With A Puppy.

> There is
> always the possibility that when they leave home, they might want to
> take the dog with them? I guess that shouldn't need addressing just
> yet LOL;o)
>
> Thanks for sharing that Info Lis. It has opened a gateway that I
> refused to look at before now, for fear alone. I was too frightened to
> consider the thought @ all!!!

Glad to help! (Is that what I've been doing? "Helping"?:))

> S;o)
> PS:You can tell Aquavit & Retsina that I think they are STUNNING....

Thank you. I'll tell them.:)

Lis

sheelagh
May 20th 07, 05:28 PM
On 19 May, 01:33, "i am so sad" > wrote:
> "Cheryl" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > On Thu 17 May 2007 03:54:23p, GODEATER wrote in
> > rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> > >:
>
> >> the pic labeled "mummy,where are you?" looks EXACTLY like my
> >> dear departed boogers.
> >> is it male or female?
> >> does he/she need a good home?
> >> i live in the washington D.C. area.
>
> > I'm also in the DC area and can probably hook you up with a kitten
> > that looks like Boogers, or another that you might latch on to. A
> > woman in my town is single handedly trying to move a feral colony and
> > since it's spring, there are many kittens. Let me know if you want
> > me to hook you up with her. I'm in Bowie.
>
> > --
> > Cheryl
>
> >got a male black and white tiger kitty?
>
> i want a young baby.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I have followed your post regarding the loss of your little friend
whom you loved so dearly. It really does hurt when you loose a cat! We
all understand how you feel, most of us have been through the same
thing too, so we understand the range of emotions that you are going
through. Has anyone ever mentioned the Rainbow Bridge to you yet? I
don't want to tell you something you already know about, yet @ the
same time, I do want you to know that the Rainbow Bridge is where our
beloved cats go to once they leave this life and the hurts it can deal
you. Boogers is there now, & he Carry's a piece of your heart which is
his alone to hold & keep for ever. Boogers is in a place of harmony
where no pain can reach him & where he watches over you until it is
time to meet once more....

In the meantime, Boogers wouldn't want you to mourn him forever. He
loved you, & when you really love someone, the best gift you have, is
to share that love around. In time, when you are ready, I am certain
that Boogers would want you to love another again when you are ready
to of course!

In the meantime, keep in touch with Cheryl, above, because she lives
quite near to you, & if anyone could help you out with a kitty, it
would be her because she does rescue work, & comes across all manner
of cats and kittens. I am certain that if you wanted to find another
kitty to channel that love through, I am certain that she could find
the right one for you. I can't tell you that she would find the carbon
copy of him, because she wouldn't be able to, but she could sure find
a kitty that deserves your love though, ok?

If you would prefer to look yourself, then try the shelters fist, &
you will find a glut of kittens and cats that would do anything to
have a slave and a home to care for you in....

IF I were closer to you, I would most certainly consider you, but
because I am in the UK, it would be a logistical nightmare to get
O'Mally to you. He is a Cute little fellow isn't he?

S;o)