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Calico
May 27th 07, 08:22 PM
I live on the third floor of an apartment block and yesterday I didn't
close one of the windows properly. Next thing I realise that I hadn't
seen puss in a while so I went looking for her when I noticed she had
pushed it open and jumped out onto concrete. I ran down and managed to
get her back inside but she had a bloody nose and seemed to be in
shock.

She's a calico, and goes CRAZY when taken to the vet so I thought the
best thing to do was to keep her in her environment and keep her calm.
She was walking around okay & didn't seem to have broken anything
apart from busting her nose.

So she kind of curled up and went into herself so I thought the best
thing to do was to let her be. Then this morning she was still really,
really subdued and I noticed that she was going to the toilet a lot
and passing small amounts of blood. I also read lots on the internet
last night about cats dying from going into shock so I got her into
the vets at 11 am this morning. (she had her fall about 2pm yesterday)
As expected the vets examination was traumatic for the cat she ended
up biting the vet and on one of his shelves. But we got her down & he
gave her anti-shock meds & painkillers. He said that she had injured
her back but couldn't tell how severe the damage was without doing x-
rays. So he's keeping her in today & tomorrow.

I feel so guilty! I should have made sure the close the window
properly and brought her to the vet IMMEDIATELY after it happened.
She's up there now and I know she is going to be totally stressed out
& I am convinced she is going to die in a cage up there from some
internal injury. It's Sunday today so there is probably no supervision
up there today/tonight.

The vet said there was no threat to her life and that I shouldn't
worry but I just KNOW the cat isn't going to get better. And if there
is a chance she'll probably require surgery in another district so I
don't know if it would be better to let her go!

Has anyone had similar experiences with back injuries and cats? She
seemed okay yesterday but for being subdued & was even purring this
morning & was walking okay and everything.

I should mention that this is my brothers cat who passed away a couple
of years ago. He ADORED her so she has to be make it. I've been crying
all day thinking about him and the cat being frightened up in the
vets. What am I going to do??

cybercat
May 27th 07, 08:28 PM
"Calico" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>I live on the third floor of an apartment block and yesterday I didn't
> close one of the windows properly. Next thing I realise that I hadn't
> seen puss in a while so I went looking for her when I noticed she had
> pushed it open and jumped out onto concrete. I ran down and managed to
> get her back inside but she had a bloody nose and seemed to be in
> shock.
>
> She's a calico, and goes CRAZY when taken to the vet so I thought the
> best thing to do was to keep her in her environment and keep her calm.

No. You know better. Take your cat to the vet.

bookie
May 27th 07, 08:31 PM
On 27 May, 20:28, "cybercat" > wrote:
> "Calico" > wrote in message
>
> ps.com...
>
> >I live on the third floor of an apartment block and yesterday I didn't
> > close one of the windows properly. Next thing I realise that I hadn't
> > seen puss in a while so I went looking for her when I noticed she had
> > pushed it open and jumped out onto concrete. I ran down and managed to
> > get her back inside but she had a bloody nose and seemed to be in
> > shock.
>
> > She's a calico, and goes CRAZY when taken to the vet so I thought the
> > best thing to do was to keep her in her environment and keep her calm.
>
> No. You know better. Take your cat to the vet.

er...she has done

Catlover Medway via CatKB.com
May 27th 07, 08:40 PM
Try spraying the carrier with Feliway. At the end of the day, if your vet is
referring puss to another veterinary hospital, she has to go. Ask him if you
can put in some bedding or other items with a familiar scent on.

Calico wrote:
>I live on the third floor of an apartment block and yesterday I didn't
>close one of the windows properly. Next thing I realise that I hadn't
>seen puss in a while so I went looking for her when I noticed she had
>pushed it open and jumped out onto concrete. I ran down and managed to
>get her back inside but she had a bloody nose and seemed to be in
>shock.
>
>She's a calico, and goes CRAZY when taken to the vet so I thought the
>best thing to do was to keep her in her environment and keep her calm.
>She was walking around okay & didn't seem to have broken anything
>apart from busting her nose.
>
>So she kind of curled up and went into herself so I thought the best
>thing to do was to let her be. Then this morning she was still really,
>really subdued and I noticed that she was going to the toilet a lot
>and passing small amounts of blood. I also read lots on the internet
>last night about cats dying from going into shock so I got her into
>the vets at 11 am this morning. (she had her fall about 2pm yesterday)
>As expected the vets examination was traumatic for the cat she ended
>up biting the vet and on one of his shelves. But we got her down & he
>gave her anti-shock meds & painkillers. He said that she had injured
>her back but couldn't tell how severe the damage was without doing x-
>rays. So he's keeping her in today & tomorrow.
>
>I feel so guilty! I should have made sure the close the window
>properly and brought her to the vet IMMEDIATELY after it happened.
>She's up there now and I know she is going to be totally stressed out
>& I am convinced she is going to die in a cage up there from some
>internal injury. It's Sunday today so there is probably no supervision
>up there today/tonight.
>
>The vet said there was no threat to her life and that I shouldn't
>worry but I just KNOW the cat isn't going to get better. And if there
>is a chance she'll probably require surgery in another district so I
>don't know if it would be better to let her go!
>
>Has anyone had similar experiences with back injuries and cats? She
>seemed okay yesterday but for being subdued & was even purring this
>morning & was walking okay and everything.
>
>I should mention that this is my brothers cat who passed away a couple
>of years ago. He ADORED her so she has to be make it. I've been crying
>all day thinking about him and the cat being frightened up in the
>vets. What am I going to do??

--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200705/1

Fred G. Mackey[_2_]
May 27th 07, 08:46 PM
Calico wrote:

> I should mention that this is my brothers cat who passed away a couple
> of years ago.

No need to take the cat to a vet if it already passed away. It's time
to bury it.

Damn you're dumb!

MaryL
May 27th 07, 08:48 PM
"Calico" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>
<snip>
>
> The vet said there was no threat to her life and that I shouldn't
> worry but I just KNOW the cat isn't going to get better. And if there
> is a chance she'll probably require surgery in another district so I
> don't know if it would be better to let her go!
>
> Has anyone had similar experiences with back injuries and cats? She
> seemed okay yesterday but for being subdued & was even purring this
> morning & was walking okay and everything.
>
> I should mention that this is my brothers cat who passed away a couple
> of years ago. He ADORED her so she has to be make it. I've been crying
> all day thinking about him and the cat being frightened up in the
> vets. What am I going to do??
>

I won't be so foolish as to tell you "don't worry." *All* of us would worry
under these circumstances. However, I will tell you that it is very foolish
for you to try to decide in advance that you *know* your cat is not going to
get any better, and especially since your vet has not said anything to lead
you in that direction. In particular, DON'T EVEN CONSIDER "LETTING HER GO."
It is *much* too early to be making that kind of decision. You need to
follow your vet's advice and give your cat a chance to recover. You are
really speaking from fear and guilt, not from logic or even from realism.
Also, *give yourself a break.* I know you feel terrible about not closing
the window properly, but it was not deliberate cruelty or gross negligence.
All of us have done something in our lives (probably many "somethings") that
we later regret. You need to stop thinking that way right now both for your
own sake and for the well-being of your cat. She deserves to be given an
opportunity for a good life and not to be destroyed simply because you are
fearful.

Please keep us updated.

MaryL

MaryL
May 27th 07, 08:50 PM
"Fred G. Mackey" > wrote in message
...
> Calico wrote:
>
>> I should mention that this is my brothers cat who passed away a couple
>> of years ago.
>
> No need to take the cat to a vet if it already passed away. It's time to
> bury it.
>
> Damn you're dumb!
>

Worse than just a troll .... a *cruel* troll. Score = -1

MaryL

Calico
May 27th 07, 08:59 PM
On May 27, 12:48 pm, "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER>
wrote:
> "Calico" > wrote in message
>
> ps.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> <snip>
>
> > The vet said there was no threat to her life and that I shouldn't
> > worry but I just KNOW the cat isn't going to get better. And if there
> > is a chance she'll probably require surgery in another district so I
> > don't know if it would be better to let her go!
>
> > Has anyone had similar experiences with back injuries and cats? She
> > seemed okay yesterday but for being subdued & was even purring this
> > morning & was walking okay and everything.
>
> > I should mention that this is my brothers cat who passed away a couple
> > of years ago. He ADORED her so she has to be make it. I've been crying
> > all day thinking about him and the cat being frightened up in the
> > vets. What am I going to do??
>
> I won't be so foolish as to tell you "don't worry." *All* of us would worry
> under these circumstances. However, I will tell you that it is very foolish
> for you to try to decide in advance that you *know* your cat is not going to
> get any better, and especially since your vet has not said anything to lead
> you in that direction. In particular, DON'T EVEN CONSIDER "LETTING HER GO."
> It is *much* too early to be making that kind of decision. You need to
> follow your vet's advice and give your cat a chance to recover. You are
> really speaking from fear and guilt, not from logic or even from realism.
> Also, *give yourself a break.* I know you feel terrible about not closing
> the window properly, but it was not deliberate cruelty or gross negligence.
> All of us have done something in our lives (probably many "somethings") that
> we later regret. You need to stop thinking that way right now both for your
> own sake and for the well-being of your cat. She deserves to be given an
> opportunity for a good life and not to be destroyed simply because you are
> fearful.
>
> Please keep us updated.
>
> MaryL


Thanks - I just have an awful feeling that the vet made the wrong
decision in keeping her in there tonight. He said she'd be fine but
surely she would be better off at home where at least she would be
relaxed and have someone to check on her. And I don't believe him when
he said there was no threat to her life. I'll keep you updated.
Hopefully she'll be okay.

Fred G. Mackey[_2_]
May 27th 07, 10:06 PM
MaryL wrote:
> "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Calico wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I should mention that this is my brothers cat who passed away a couple
>>>of years ago.
>>
>>No need to take the cat to a vet if it already passed away. It's time to
>>bury it.
>>
>>Damn you're dumb!
>>
>
>
> Worse than just a troll .... a *cruel* troll. Score = -1
>

This person deserves to be treated cruelly. They let their cat fall out
of a third story window, saw that it was severely injured and waited
until the next day to take it to the vet.

Furthermore, they are hanging on to their cat as if it is somehow a
piece of the brother they lost.

Someone should rescue this feline.

> MaryL
>
>

MaryL
May 27th 07, 10:13 PM
"Fred G. Mackey" > wrote in message
. ..
> MaryL wrote:
>> "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Calico wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I should mention that this is my brothers cat who passed away a couple
>>>>of years ago.
>>>
>>>No need to take the cat to a vet if it already passed away. It's time to
>>>bury it.
>>>
>>>Damn you're dumb!
>>>
>>
>>
>> Worse than just a troll .... a *cruel* troll. Score = -1
>>
>
> This person deserves to be treated cruelly. They let their cat fall out
> of a third story window, saw that it was severely injured and waited until
> the next day to take it to the vet.
>
> Furthermore, they are hanging on to their cat as if it is somehow a piece
> of the brother they lost.
>
> Someone should rescue this feline.
>

I don't think anyone deserves to be treated cruelly. However, the failure
to take the cat to a vet immediately is very disturbing. I thought from
your message that you were only commenting on her grammar because you quoted
only one sentence ("I should mention that this is my brothers cat who passed
away a couple of years ago") and then said that it is time to "bury" it.
So, perhaps I was the one who was cruel. If so, I apologize.

>> MaryL

Lis
May 27th 07, 10:45 PM
On May 27, 3:22 pm, Calico > wrote:
> I live on the third floor of an apartment block and yesterday I didn't
> close one of the windows properly. Next thing I realise that I hadn't
> seen puss in a while so I went looking for her when I noticed she had
> pushed it open and jumped out onto concrete. I ran down and managed to
> get her back inside but she had a bloody nose and seemed to be in
> shock.

Shock is always serious, and always requires a medical check.

> She's a calico, and goes CRAZY when taken to the vet so I thought the
> best thing to do was to keep her in her environment and keep her calm.
> She was walking around okay & didn't seem to have broken anything
> apart from busting her nose.

This was a mistake, but you know that now.

> So she kind of curled up and went into herself so I thought the best
> thing to do was to let her be. Then this morning she was still really,
> really subdued and I noticed that she was going to the toilet a lot
> and passing small amounts of blood. I also read lots on the internet
> last night about cats dying from going into shock so I got her into
> the vets at 11 am this morning. (she had her fall about 2pm yesterday)
> As expected the vets examination was traumatic for the cat she ended
> up biting the vet and on one of his shelves. But we got her down & he
> gave her anti-shock meds & painkillers. He said that she had injured
> her back but couldn't tell how severe the damage was without doing x-
> rays. So he's keeping her in today & tomorrow.
>
> I feel so guilty! I should have made sure the close the window
> properly and brought her to the vet IMMEDIATELY after it happened.
> She's up there now and I know she is going to be totally stressed out
> & I am convinced she is going to die in a cage up there from some
> internal injury. It's Sunday today so there is probably no supervision
> up there today/tonight.

"Probably"? You didn't ask?

It's possible there's no overnight supervision. The possibility that
no one goes in during the day on Sunday to feed, water, clean up for,
and check on the animals staying the weekend is ZERO. Think about it
for half a second: sick animals, need regular food and water, need
meds, need other care--no one comes in for 24 hours or more. Does this
strike you as _possible_? In the real world, I mean, rather than in
the heart of your panic and guilt?

> The vet said there was no threat to her life and that I shouldn't
> worry but I just KNOW the cat isn't going to get better. And if there
> is a chance she'll probably require surgery in another district so I
> don't know if it would be better to let her go!

You are speaking from fear and guilt. You do NOT "know" that the cat
isn't going to get better. You could have ASKED the vet if there would
be overnight care, and if not if it would be better for the cat to be
at home, or to be moved to another veterinary hospital where there is
overnight care.

The time to decide whether it's appropriate to go ahead with surgery
is AFTER the vet recommends surgery. I'm not clear on why "in another
district" would be a deciding factor.

> Has anyone had similar experiences with back injuries and cats? She
> seemed okay yesterday but for being subdued & was even purring this
> morning & was walking okay and everything.

So, in fact there's lots of reason to believe that your vet was NOT
blowing smoke or demonstrating his incompetence when he said that the
cat's life is not in danger. And, yes, btw, someone DOES have
experience with cats and back injuries--YOUR VET. Whom you are
choosing not to believe because he is declining to feed your guilt and
fear.

> I should mention that this is my brothers cat who passed away a couple
> of years ago. He ADORED her so she has to be make it. I've been crying
> all day thinking about him and the cat being frightened up in the
> vets. What am I going to do??

Take a long, soothing bubble bath and then make yourself a nice,
soothing cup of tea. It's the best thing you can do for your cat right
now--stop having hysterics. You need to be able to listen to the
information the vet gives you tomorrow, and make rational decisions
about it. Panic and guilt are lousy foundations for important
decisions.

Lis

Lis
May 27th 07, 10:46 PM
On May 27, 5:13 pm, "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER>
wrote:
> "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote in messagenews:[email protected] st.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > MaryL wrote:
> >> "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >>>Calico wrote:
>
> >>>>I should mention that this is my brothers cat who passed away a couple
> >>>>of years ago.
>
> >>>No need to take the cat to a vet if it already passed away. It's time to
> >>>bury it.
>
> >>>Damn you're dumb!
>
> >> Worse than just a troll .... a *cruel* troll. Score = -1
>
> > This person deserves to be treated cruelly. They let their cat fall out
> > of a third story window, saw that it was severely injured and waited until
> > the next day to take it to the vet.
>
> > Furthermore, they are hanging on to their cat as if it is somehow a piece
> > of the brother they lost.
>
> > Someone should rescue this feline.
>
> I don't think anyone deserves to be treated cruelly. However, the failure
> to take the cat to a vet immediately is very disturbing. I thought from
> your message that you were only commenting on her grammar because you quoted
> only one sentence ("I should mention that this is my brothers cat who passed
> away a couple of years ago") and then said that it is time to "bury" it.
> So, perhaps I was the one who was cruel. If so, I apologize.
>
>
>
> >> MaryL- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No, Mary, you were not the one who was cruel.

LIs

MaryL
May 28th 07, 12:21 AM
"Lis" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On May 27, 5:13 pm, "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER>
> wrote:
>> ">>
>> >> MaryL- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> No, Mary, you were not the one who was cruel.
>
> LIs
>

Thanks!

MaryL

mlbriggs
May 28th 07, 01:03 AM
On Sun, 27 May 2007 12:59:02 -0700, Calico wrote:

> On May 27, 12:48 pm, "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER>
> wrote:
>> "Calico" > wrote in message
>>
>> ps.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> > The vet said there was no threat to her life and that I shouldn't
>> > worry but I just KNOW the cat isn't going to get better. And if there
>> > is a chance she'll probably require surgery in another district so I
>> > don't know if it would be better to let her go!
>>
>> > Has anyone had similar experiences with back injuries and cats? She
>> > seemed okay yesterday but for being subdued & was even purring this
>> > morning & was walking okay and everything.
>>
>> > I should mention that this is my brothers cat who passed away a couple
>> > of years ago. He ADORED her so she has to be make it. I've been crying
>> > all day thinking about him and the cat being frightened up in the
>> > vets. What am I going to do??
>>
>> I won't be so foolish as to tell you "don't worry." *All* of us would worry
>> under these circumstances. However, I will tell you that it is very foolish
>> for you to try to decide in advance that you *know* your cat is not going to
>> get any better, and especially since your vet has not said anything to lead
>> you in that direction. In particular, DON'T EVEN CONSIDER "LETTING HER GO."
>> It is *much* too early to be making that kind of decision. You need to
>> follow your vet's advice and give your cat a chance to recover. You are
>> really speaking from fear and guilt, not from logic or even from realism.
>> Also, *give yourself a break.* I know you feel terrible about not closing
>> the window properly, but it was not deliberate cruelty or gross negligence.
>> All of us have done something in our lives (probably many "somethings") that
>> we later regret. You need to stop thinking that way right now both for your
>> own sake and for the well-being of your cat. She deserves to be given an
>> opportunity for a good life and not to be destroyed simply because you are
>> fearful.
>>
>> Please keep us updated.
>>
>> MaryL
>
>
> Thanks - I just have an awful feeling that the vet made the wrong
> decision in keeping her in there tonight. He said she'd be fine but
> surely she would be better off at home where at least she would be
> relaxed and have someone to check on her. And I don't believe him when
> he said there was no threat to her life. I'll keep you updated.
> Hopefully she'll be okay.


Just sit tight! Cats have survived bad falls. The cat need rest, quiet
and fluids and the Vet will provide these things. We shall all purr for
your cat's recovery and you can do this too. Best wishes. MLB

bookie
May 28th 07, 01:19 AM
On 27 May, 22:45, Lis > wrote:
> On May 27, 3:22 pm, Calico > wrote:
>
> > I live on the third floor of an apartment block and yesterday I didn't
> > close one of the windows properly. Next thing I realise that I hadn't
> > seen puss in a while so I went looking for her when I noticed she had
> > pushed it open and jumped out onto concrete. I ran down and managed to
> > get her back inside but she had a bloody nose and seemed to be in
> > shock.
>
> Shock is always serious, and always requires a medical check.
>
> > She's a calico, and goes CRAZY when taken to the vet so I thought the
> > best thing to do was to keep her in her environment and keep her calm.
> > She was walking around okay & didn't seem to have broken anything
> > apart from busting her nose.
>
> This was a mistake, but you know that now.
>
>
>
>
>
> > So she kind of curled up and went into herself so I thought the best
> > thing to do was to let her be. Then this morning she was still really,
> > really subdued and I noticed that she was going to the toilet a lot
> > and passing small amounts of blood. I also read lots on the internet
> > last night about cats dying from going into shock so I got her into
> > the vets at 11 am this morning. (she had her fall about 2pm yesterday)
> > As expected the vets examination was traumatic for the cat she ended
> > up biting the vet and on one of his shelves. But we got her down & he
> > gave her anti-shock meds & painkillers. He said that she had injured
> > her back but couldn't tell how severe the damage was without doing x-
> > rays. So he's keeping her in today & tomorrow.
>
> > I feel so guilty! I should have made sure the close the window
> > properly and brought her to the vet IMMEDIATELY after it happened.
> > She's up there now and I know she is going to be totally stressed out
> > & I am convinced she is going to die in a cage up there from some
> > internal injury. It's Sunday today so there is probably no supervision
> > up there today/tonight.
>
> "Probably"? You didn't ask?
>
> It's possible there's no overnight supervision. The possibility that
> no one goes in during the day on Sunday to feed, water, clean up for,
> and check on the animals staying the weekend is ZERO. Think about it
> for half a second: sick animals, need regular food and water, need
> meds, need other care--no one comes in for 24 hours or more. Does this
> strike you as _possible_? In the real world, I mean, rather than in
> the heart of your panic and guilt?
>
> > The vet said there was no threat to her life and that I shouldn't
> > worry but I just KNOW the cat isn't going to get better. And if there
> > is a chance she'll probably require surgery in another district so I
> > don't know if it would be better to let her go!
>
> You are speaking from fear and guilt. You do NOT "know" that the cat
> isn't going to get better. You could have ASKED the vet if there would
> be overnight care, and if not if it would be better for the cat to be
> at home, or to be moved to another veterinary hospital where there is
> overnight care.
>
> The time to decide whether it's appropriate to go ahead with surgery
> is AFTER the vet recommends surgery. I'm not clear on why "in another
> district" would be a deciding factor.
>
> > Has anyone had similar experiences with back injuries and cats? She
> > seemed okay yesterday but for being subdued & was even purring this
> > morning & was walking okay and everything.
>
> So, in fact there's lots of reason to believe that your vet was NOT
> blowing smoke or demonstrating his incompetence when he said that the
> cat's life is not in danger. And, yes, btw, someone DOES have
> experience with cats and back injuries--YOUR VET. Whom you are
> choosing not to believe because he is declining to feed your guilt and
> fear.
>
> > I should mention that this is my brothers cat who passed away a couple
> > of years ago. He ADORED her so she has to be make it. I've been crying
> > all day thinking about him and the cat being frightened up in the
> > vets. What am I going to do??
>
> Take a long, soothing bubble bath and then make yourself a nice,
> soothing cup of tea. It's the best thing you can do for your cat right
> now--stop having hysterics. You need to be able to listen to the
> information the vet gives you tomorrow, and make rational decisions
> about it. Panic and guilt are lousy foundations for important
> decisions.
>
> Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

i'd liek to add to that if I may...
it almost seesm to me that you are wishing this poor cat to have an
unhappy end to this awful occurence, why? and why won't you listen to
your your vet when they say that the cat will be ok? why are you
expecting, no actually DESIRING, the worst possible outcome here? why
are you expecting only bad things to happen ie for th cat to have to
be put to sleep?

have a bit of faith please, the vast majority of Vets are excellent
healthcare professionals who know what they are talking about and have
your animals best interests at heart and would not lie to you about
your pet's prognosis after an accident or illness. Ok there is the odd
case where the vet is a total crook and should not be allowed to treat
animals, Sheelaghs' ex-vet springs to mind here, but cases liek those
are really few and far between, very rare. There are governing bodies
who regulate how vets practise and monitor them to make sure they are
maintaining certain standards of care etc, otherwise the vet would not
be allowed to stay in business (which reminds me; Sheelagh have you
contacted the RCVS yet?).

have you actually enquired as to the provision of overnight care at
the surgery for your cat? i very much doutb that he/she wil be left
alone completely, there is usually either vet or a vet nurse on call
there overnight and at weekends as they will ahve anumber of resident
patients to look after and also it is part of what they are required
to do as part of their professional duties.

Also if they thought that the cat was getting unduly stressed they
would try to help it as they do realise that excessive amounts of
stress are not going to aid the cats recovery. they may seek to sedate
him slightly to reduce stress, but if you are worried that he/she will
get stressed in such an unfamiliar environment then you can do as i
have done in the past with cats who have stayed at the vets for a few
nights and take along a familiar blanket with my smell on it, some
favourite toys perhaps. Provided they are vaguely clean and not likely
to have come from a home where there has been some recent feline
infectious disease and so not going to pass on any infection or
similar, then I am sure the vet will allow this, mine certainly does.

I also do not see why you woudl need to 'let her go' (which i presume
means "put to sleep") if she needs surgery in another district, if
that si what she needs and the vet is admitting that she needs better
or more specialist help than he can give her what si the problem with
that? it means that she is going to be looked fater by probably even
better qualified health professionals than the ALREADY highly
qualified medical staff she is with now, how can that be a bad thing?
If your current vet thinks she is ok to make the journey to another
district then he should be trusted and believed, he wouldn't say such
things if they weren;t true. He wouldn't propose to move your cat
elsewhere to a better equipped clinic/surgery if (a) he thought that
she would not survive the move or (b) he thought that there was no
hope for her and not point in doing so, why would he waste his and
everyone's time like that?

I don't understand why you are being so negative, veterinary science
has done some wonderful things and vets can work wonders (if they get
to the animal in time of course). so calm down and chill out, right
now it is all out of your hands and, as dear departed Freddie Mercury
sang "it's in the lap of the gods" now.


you haven't said how old your cat is btw

bookie

Calico
May 28th 07, 06:39 AM
I have to say, some of you guys have been very unkind. The cat didn't
seem to have any broken bones and was stunned more than anything. I
didn't realise the implications of shock and thought the best thing
was to keep her in a quiet place where she would be undisturbed and
not re-traumatised by going to the vet. By next morning - which was
sunday - the first thing I did was call all the local vets until I
found one that would take her. And that was indeed extremely traumatic
for the cat and all the vet did was put in her cage, completely
stressed, and left her probably unsupervised, until this morning. How
is that better than what I was doing? Anyway, to those of you who have
tried to make me feel better, thanks. I should find out more about the
cat tonight.

cybercat
May 28th 07, 08:17 AM
"Calico" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I have to say, some of you guys have been very unkind. The cat didn't
> seem to have any broken bones and was stunned more than anything. I
> didn't realise the implications of shock and thought the best thing
> was to keep her in a quiet place where she would be undisturbed and
> not re-traumatised by going to the vet. By next morning - which was
> sunday - the first thing I did was call all the local vets until I
> found one that would take her. And that was indeed extremely traumatic
> for the cat and all the vet did was put in her cage, completely
> stressed, and left her probably unsupervised, until this morning. How
> is that better than what I was doing? Anyway, to those of you who have
> tried to make me feel better, thanks. I should find out more about the
> cat tonight.
>
>
Take responsibility for your actions. Your cat fell out of the window,
and you allowed her to go without veterinary treatment for 48 hours.
Any complaints you have with your vet, if indeed you ever took the cat
to a vet, are a separate issue.

Unkind? That is a very mild description of someone who neglected
to get their cat medical help, as you did.

Be an irresponsible caretaker, but don't do it and expect to tell people
about it and not be called on it.

Your cat fell out the window? Take her to the VET right AWAY. What
is hard to understand about that?

bookie
May 28th 07, 04:43 PM
On 28 May, 08:17, "cybercat" > wrote:
> "Calico" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...>I have to say, some of you guys have been very unkind. The cat didn't
> > seem to have any broken bones and was stunned more than anything. I
> > didn't realise the implications of shock and thought the best thing
> > was to keep her in a quiet place where she would be undisturbed and
> > not re-traumatised by going to the vet. By next morning - which was
> > sunday - the first thing I did was call all the local vets until I
> > found one that would take her. And that was indeed extremely traumatic
> > for the cat and all the vet did was put in her cage, completely
> > stressed, and left her probably unsupervised, until this morning. How
> > is that better than what I was doing? Anyway, to those of you who have
> > tried to make me feel better, thanks. I should find out more about the
> > cat tonight.
>
> Take responsibility for your actions. Your cat fell out of the window,
> and you allowed her to go without veterinary treatment for 48 hours.
> Any complaints you have with your vet, if indeed you ever took the cat
> to a vet, are a separate issue.
>
> Unkind? That is a very mild description of someone who neglected
> to get their cat medical help, as you did.
>
> Be an irresponsible caretaker, but don't do it and expect to tell people
> about it and not be called on it.
>
> Your cat fell out the window? Take her to the VET right AWAY. What
> is hard to understand about that?

i second that, bookie

sheelagh
May 28th 07, 05:19 PM
On 28 May, 08:17, "cybercat" > wrote:
> "Calico" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...>I have to say, some of you guys have been very unkind. The cat didn't
> > seem to have any broken bones and was stunned more than anything. I
> > didn't realise the implications of shock and thought the best thing
> > was to keep her in a quiet place where she would be undisturbed and
> > not re-traumatised by going to the vet. By next morning - which was
> > sunday - the first thing I did was call all the local vets until I
> > found one that would take her. And that was indeed extremely traumatic
> > for the cat and all the vet did was put in her cage, completely
> > stressed, and left her probably unsupervised, until this morning. How
> > is that better than what I was doing? Anyway, to those of you who have
> > tried to make me feel better, thanks. I should find out more about the
> > cat tonight.
>
> Take responsibility for your actions. Your cat fell out of the window,
> and you allowed her to go without veterinary treatment for 48 hours.
> Any complaints you have with your vet, if indeed you ever took the cat
> to a vet, are a separate issue.
>
> Unkind? That is a very mild description of someone who neglected
> to get their cat medical help, as you did.
>
> Be an irresponsible caretaker, but don't do it and expect to tell people
> about it and not be called on it.
>
> Your cat fell out the window? Take her to the VET right AWAY. What
> is hard to understand about that?

And be sure to be honest about what happened to your cat, otherwise
they won't be able to help you. Not Harsh, honesty will get you where
you need to be
S:o)

Calico
May 28th 07, 07:21 PM
I have just got my cat back and thankfully, the vet expects her to
make a full recovery. However, I will just say that the whole time at
the vet was probably more traumatic to the cat than the fall, not to
mention the poor dote hardly being able to stand up at the moment
after the anaesthetic. The vet gave her the once over but gave no
treatment (apart from the injections when I brought her up first) so
in actual fact, the best thing for kitty was EXACTLY what I was doing,
which was keeping her in a nice, warm, quiet place. She is actually in
a awful state now compared to how I brought her in.

But I don't care a jot about any of that - or some of the assholes in
this newsgroup - I am just glad she is going to be okay, and hopefully
will not get the opportunity to try her paw at flying again.

Thanks to those who tried to offer genuine advice.

MaryL
May 28th 07, 07:36 PM
"Calico" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>I have just got my cat back and thankfully, the vet expects her to
> make a full recovery. However, I will just say that the whole time at
> the vet was probably more traumatic to the cat than the fall, not to
> mention the poor dote hardly being able to stand up at the moment
> after the anaesthetic. The vet gave her the once over but gave no
> treatment (apart from the injections when I brought her up first) so
> in actual fact, the best thing for kitty was EXACTLY what I was doing,
> which was keeping her in a nice, warm, quiet place. She is actually in
> a awful state now compared to how I brought her in.
>
> But I don't care a jot about any of that - or some of the assholes in
> this newsgroup - I am just glad she is going to be okay, and hopefully
> will not get the opportunity to try her paw at flying again.
>
> Thanks to those who tried to offer genuine advice.
>
>

That is wonderful news to hear that your cat is going to be alright.
However, I would like to emphasize that you did the right thing by taking
her to the vet. *Many* cats are extremely fearful of the vet (somewhat like
small children). Unfortunately, we can't explain to them why we are placing
them in what must seem like a terrible situation. The point is, we really
*must* have our furbabies evaluated at certain times (and the bad fall you
described is one of them). Even if "bedrest" turns out to be the only
treatment, we simply can't tell that there are no problems by just
"looking." We need an examination by someone who is medically qualified.
So, be glad that you had her checked out. Think how terrible you would have
felt if you had *not* gone to the vet and your cat had suffered serious
consequences as a result.

MaryL

Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'<
Duffy: http://tinyurl.com/cslwf
Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o
Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e

Lis
May 28th 07, 09:21 PM
On May 28, 2:21 pm, Calico > wrote:
> I have just got my cat back and thankfully, the vet expects her to
> make a full recovery. However, I will just say that the whole time at
> the vet was probably more traumatic to the cat than the fall, not to
> mention the poor dote hardly being able to stand up at the moment
> after the anaesthetic. The vet gave her the once over but gave no
> treatment (apart from the injections when I brought her up first) so
> in actual fact, the best thing for kitty was EXACTLY what I was doing,
> which was keeping her in a nice, warm, quiet place. She is actually in
> a awful state now compared to how I brought her in.
>
> But I don't care a jot about any of that - or some of the assholes in
> this newsgroup - I am just glad she is going to be okay, and hopefully
> will not get the opportunity to try her paw at flying again.
>
> Thanks to those who tried to offer genuine advice.

It's great news that your cat is going to be okay!

Many cats find it upsetting to go to the vet; that doesn't mean that
they don't need to go. It's our job as the pet owners to be the adult
supervision and insist on things that they need but would not/could
not do for themselves, even the things they would avoid because
they're unpleasant. You COULD NOT have done for the cat what the vet
did--give anti-shock meds and painkillers. And if kitty was just
recovering from the anaesthetic when you wrote this post, no, the last
treament was NOT two days ago when you brought her in.

You did the right thing bringing her in to the vet, even though it's
upsetting to her. Really you did.

Lis

Cheryl
May 28th 07, 09:59 PM
On Mon 28 May 2007 02:36:48p, MaryL wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
>:

> "Calico" > wrote in message
> ps.com...

>> I have just got my cat back and thankfully, the vet expects her
>> to make a full recovery. However, I will just say that the whole
>> time at the vet was probably more traumatic to the cat than the
>> fall, not to mention the poor dote hardly being able to stand
>> up at the moment after the anaesthetic.
>>
>
Very good news! I'm glad you got her examined. As MaryL said, the
stress involved in taking them to the vet can't be helped. Unless
you can afford to have a vet make housecalls (do they even do that
any more?) it unavoidable.

I hope she'll be ok. I was worried about her. I was worried that
the bleeding from the nose was more than just a nose injury.
Internal bleeding can result in bleeding from the nose or mouth or
even ears.

> That is wonderful news to hear that your cat is going to be
> alright. However, I would like to emphasize that you did the
> right thing by taking her to the vet. *Many* cats are extremely
> fearful of the vet (somewhat like small children).
> Unfortunately, we can't explain to them why we are placing them
> in what must seem like a terrible situation. The point is, we
> really *must* have our furbabies evaluated at certain times (and
> the bad fall you described is one of them). Even if "bedrest"
> turns out to be the only treatment, we simply can't tell that
> there are no problems by just "looking." We need an examination
> by someone who is medically qualified. So, be glad that you had
> her checked out. Think how terrible you would have felt if you
> had *not* gone to the vet and your cat had suffered serious
> consequences as a result.
>
> MaryL

Well said, Mary. This is just one of the many reasons a yearly exam
from a young age is important. Not only can the vet form baselines
of overall health, it helps to condition the cat to the carrier,
the car (bus, cab, etc), the vets office and being handled. My
sister has a cat that is a total demon to try to get in a carrier.
And while mine don't like it, they are used to it when they have to
go in.

--
Cheryl

chatnoir
May 28th 07, 10:31 PM
On May 27, 3:06 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
> MaryL wrote:
> > "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >>Calico wrote:
>
> >>>I should mention that this is my brothers cat who passed away a couple
> >>>of years ago.
>
> >>No need to take the cat to a vet if it already passed away. It's time to
> >>bury it.
>
> >>Damn you're dumb!
>
> > Worse than just a troll .... a *cruel* troll. Score = -1
>
> This person deserves to be treated cruelly. They let their cat fall out
> of a third story window, saw that it was severely injured and waited
> until the next day to take it to the vet.
>
> Furthermore, they are hanging on to their cat as if it is somehow a
> piece of the brother they lost.
>
> Someone should rescue this feline.
>

Fred spouts off!:

http://www.thechurning.com/images/hybridmotorcycle.jpg

Lilah Morgan
May 28th 07, 10:39 PM
"Calico" > wrote in message
ps.com...

> I feel so guilty! I should have made sure the close the window
> properly and brought her to the vet IMMEDIATELY after it happened.
> She's up there now and I know she is going to be totally stressed out

I hope your cat gets better. I think there's a good chance she'll make a
full recovery. As already mentioned, immediate vet care is important.
Unfortunately, it's not always possible. When Joxer got seriously
injured(one day he had decided to take a nap under the hood of one of the
cars in the parking lot of the apartment complex we lived in, and of course
the owner of the car didn't know, so she started the car, and either the fan
belt or one of the blades got the thigh of one of his hind legs), he didn't
come home til the next evening. One of our neighbors who also had a cat(a
grey male named Stanley) that played with Joxer said that the owner of the
car saw Joxer run out from her car when she started it, and when she told me
around the time that happened, that was around the same time when I realized
that Joxer hadn't come in(whenever I got home from anywhere, Joxer would
KNOW and come running no matter where he was to see me), and I got a bit
worried because I had been home a while. So I went around calling his name
and looking for him, but no results. I did that every so often that evening
into the night, getting more and more worried, because as mentioned, Joxer
would always come to me. Couldn't even go to classes the next day because I
was just about having a meltdown. Finally that next evening Joxer climbed
through the open window. He wasn't jumping in, he was like holding onto the
windowsill with his two front paws, and so I went to give him much love,
glad to see him ok, but then I saw his leg...there was alot of blood and
dried leaves around the wound(so I guess he went into shock and ran until he
collapsed or something) and then I started freaking out. Got him into the
bathroom to clean him up some, and he got cut really deep, and I ran across
the street to a friend's to find out if she could look at him(she's a vet
technician/assistant), and she couldn't, but she gave me the address/number
of a 24hour vet place, so Stanley's mom(she helped clean Joxer up) lent me
her cat carrier and I took the next bus(it ran like every half hour) to
there and he got anti-shock/pain stuff, and they said I could take him home
for overnight, and then the next day I took him to the clinic my friend
worked at and they fixed him up. They wanted to amputate the leg but I
wouldn't let them, and he walks fine now, just with a limp on that leg, but
when he runs there's no trace of a limp. I'm just glad that I had gotten a
check the day of the accident, because if I hadn't, I don't know how we
would have been able to afford his vet bills. Ended up being like $600 I
think(maybe it was $200, can't remember without looking at the bill...I keep
all records), but he's worth it no matter how much money it was. He's my
baby :-)

bookie
May 29th 07, 12:08 AM
On 28 May, 19:21, Calico > wrote:
> I have just got my cat back and thankfully, the vet expects her to
> make a full recovery. However, I will just say that the whole time at
> the vet was probably more traumatic to the cat than the fall, not to
> mention the poor dote hardly being able to stand up at the moment
> after the anaesthetic. The vet gave her the once over but gave no
> treatment (apart from the injections when I brought her up first) so
> in actual fact, the best thing for kitty was EXACTLY what I was doing,
> which was keeping her in a nice, warm, quiet place. She is actually in
> a awful state now compared to how I brought her in.
>
> But I don't care a jot about any of that - or some of the assholes in
> this newsgroup - I am just glad she is going to be okay, and hopefully
> will not get the opportunity to try her paw at flying again.
>
> Thanks to those who tried to offer genuine advice.

i have to disagree with you, regardless fo what ytou thought was the
right thing, takign her to the vets was the best thing to do even
though it turned out to be ok and that she did not need much doing
exceopt painkillers etc (although without those she may have suffered
sever shock and things coudl have got complicated).

yes trips to the vets can be traumatic and cats can wail about it but
you did nto know what may have happened inside her tiny body, she
coudl have had internal bleeding or head trauma and died in a a very
painful way days later and that woudl nto have been pleasant for
anyone woudl it?

If you really do nto want to put her through the trauma of going to
the vets again can you get the vet to come out to you perhaps? ring
them before you really need them and discuss this possibility with
them. I agree that if an animal is really sick then the last thing
they need is to be stressed out as that can also lead to complicatiion
and can hinder recivery but sometimes the cat really needs to be seen
by a professional asap and after an accident like a bad fall as your
cat had is one of those times.

sorry if i sound harsh but it si true, anyway I am glad that she is
ok, please look after her from now one and keep all those windows
shut, and ask at the vets about the possibility of a home visit

bookie

lovethepet
May 29th 07, 03:17 AM
On May 28, 11:21 am, Calico > wrote:
> I have just got my cat back and thankfully, the vet expects her to
> make a full recovery. However, I will just say that the whole time at
> the vet was probably more traumatic to the cat than the fall, not to
> mention the poor dote hardly being able to stand up at the moment
> after the anaesthetic. The vet gave her the once over but gave no
> treatment (apart from the injections when I brought her up first) so
> in actual fact, the best thing for kitty was EXACTLY what I was doing,
> which was keeping her in a nice, warm, quiet place. She is actually in
> a awful state now compared to how I brought her in.
>
> But I don't care a jot about any of that - or some of the assholes in
> this newsgroup - I am just glad she is going to be okay, and hopefully
> will not get the opportunity to try her paw at flying again.
>
> Thanks to those who tried to offer genuine advice.

Been following this thread and so happy your kitty got the OK. I have
a calico aswell and they can get pretty stressed out easily. Must be
something in the breed but you have to walk on eggshells around them
as they seem to be PMSing 90% of the time. Mine has an enlarged heart
and I had to change my vet to take her to the nearest one because she
hyperventilates as soon as she gets in the car. Anyway, glad for the
good report!

Charlie Wilkes
May 29th 07, 05:10 AM
On Mon, 28 May 2007 03:17:13 -0400, cybercat wrote:

> Take responsibility for your actions. Your cat fell out of the window,
> and you allowed her to go without veterinary treatment for 48 hours.
> Any complaints you have with your vet, if indeed you ever took the cat
> to a vet, are a separate issue.

I think you're being too hard on her. If what she posted is accurate,
she may have erred in her judgment, but not because she lacks concern or
commitment.

My dog got killed because of my poor judgment, so I'm sensitive to the
distinction.

Charlie

cybercat
May 29th 07, 03:32 PM
"Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 28 May 2007 03:17:13 -0400, cybercat wrote:
>
>> Take responsibility for your actions. Your cat fell out of the window,
>> and you allowed her to go without veterinary treatment for 48 hours.
>> Any complaints you have with your vet, if indeed you ever took the cat
>> to a vet, are a separate issue.
>
> I think you're being too hard on her. If what she posted is accurate,
> she may have erred in her judgment, but not because she lacks concern or
> commitment.
>
> My dog got killed because of my poor judgment, so I'm sensitive to the
> distinction.
>

Charlie, if your dog were hurt you would have taken him for treatment.

If he fell out the blinking window and had blood coming out of his
nose, are you telling me you would not take him to a vet?

I will never understand these sorry assholes who post that they have
an injured or sick cat, and have not taken the animal to the vet. If it
were a child, they would find a way. Or maybe they wouldn't. Poor
cats.

bookie
May 29th 07, 04:33 PM
On 29 May, 15:32, "cybercat" > wrote:
> "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Mon, 28 May 2007 03:17:13 -0400, cybercat wrote:
>
> >> Take responsibility for your actions. Your cat fell out of the window,
> >> and you allowed her to go without veterinary treatment for 48 hours.
> >> Any complaints you have with your vet, if indeed you ever took the cat
> >> to a vet, are a separate issue.
>
> > I think you're being too hard on her. If what she posted is accurate,
> > she may have erred in her judgment, but not because she lacks concern or
> > commitment.
>
> > My dog got killed because of my poor judgment, so I'm sensitive to the
> > distinction.
>
> Charlie, if your dog were hurt you would have taken him for treatment.
>
> If he fell out the blinking window and had blood coming out of his
> nose, are you telling me you would not take him to a vet?
>
> I will never understand these sorry assholes who post that they have
> an injured or sick cat, and have not taken the animal to the vet. If it
> were a child, they would find a way. Or maybe they wouldn't. Poor
> cats.

i agree, no reason to wait about and 'see if it gets better by
itself', that is irresponsible and amounts to neglect in my book

Lilah Morgan
May 29th 07, 09:27 PM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...

> I will never understand these sorry assholes who post that they have
> an injured or sick cat, and have not taken the animal to the vet. If it
> were a child, they would find a way. Or maybe they wouldn't. Poor
> cats.

Except that unfortunately, hospitals and such will most likely not refuse to
treat a critically injured human because they don't have an upfront deposit.
But most vet clinics to my knowledge don't get the donations/funding that
human hospitals get, so they are solely dependent upon the fees they earn.
If you don't have the money, you(and more specifically your pet) are in
trouble. Are vet clinics able to get extra funding/donations like hospitals
do(because then they could put some aside for emergency cases)? I try not to
know too much about tax law and such like that, it makes me confused and
gives me a headache, and I'm confused enough most of the time lately. I'm
just grateful that when Joxer had his accident, I had just gotten enough
money to pay for all his vet bills upfront. And do cats really have such a
fuss about going to the vet? Joxer never really did...he didn't like being
in the carrier, but he wasn't aggressive or nothing, he was just slightly
annoyed at being 'cooped up', and when I picked him up after his surgery,
the clinic had a little report card to go with the itemized bill and such,
and Joxer was very well behaved...he's a laid back kinda guy :-) Speaking
of, I am trying to get more pictures of him, but he's camera shy...I did
manage to get one of him peeking out from the side of the table when he was
wondering what I was doing at least ;-)

bookie
May 29th 07, 10:19 PM
On 29 May, 21:27, "Lilah Morgan" > wrote:
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > I will never understand these sorry assholes who post that they have
> > an injured or sick cat, and have not taken the animal to the vet. If it
> > were a child, they would find a way. Or maybe they wouldn't. Poor
> > cats.
>
> Except that unfortunately, hospitals and such will most likely not refuse to
> treat a critically injured human because they don't have an upfront deposit.
> But most vet clinics to my knowledge don't get the donations/funding that
> human hospitals get, so they are solely dependent upon the fees they earn.
> If you don't have the money, you(and more specifically your pet) are in
> trouble. Are vet clinics able to get extra funding/donations like hospitals
> do(because then they could put some aside for emergency cases)? I try not to
> know too much about tax law and such like that, it makes me confused and
> gives me a headache, and I'm confused enough most of the time lately. I'm
> just grateful that when Joxer had his accident, I had just gotten enough
> money to pay for all his vet bills upfront. And do cats really have such a
> fuss about going to the vet? Joxer never really did...he didn't like being
> in the carrier, but he wasn't aggressive or nothing, he was just slightly
> annoyed at being 'cooped up', and when I picked him up after his surgery,
> the clinic had a little report card to go with the itemized bill and such,
> and Joxer was very well behaved...he's a laid back kinda guy :-) Speaking
> of, I am trying to get more pictures of him, but he's camera shy...I did
> manage to get one of him peeking out from the side of the table when he was
> wondering what I was doing at least ;-)

what do you mean yu had to pay up front? do you mean before they had
even treated your cat? unlikely I think
dunno aboutthe US of A but in blighty you only afer treatment is
complete and even then you coudl proabbly work out a payment plan with
the vet, they're not mad money grabbers you know but they do have
their own bills to cover.

for peple in serious money strife over here there is the PDSA
(people's dispensary for sick animals) which will give care for
animals of people on the dole (on state benefits or unemployed or long
term sick) and old people on state pensions, so people om the dole
have no excuses either really. Also i think the blue cross helps out
that way too but not entirely sure, I have never had to use either
myself as I always try to find the money form somewhere
unlike the majority of people on the brink of poverty I don't spend
every last penny i have on gin and fags, instead I save any spare cash
i get hold of just for and cat-related emergencies which may occur,
but then i must be odd like that

bookie

mariib via CatKB.com
May 30th 07, 04:25 AM
bookie wrote:
>> > I will never understand these sorry assholes who post that they have
>> > an injured or sick cat, and have not taken the animal to the vet. If it
>[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>> manage to get one of him peeking out from the side of the table when he was
>> wondering what I was doing at least ;-)
>
>what do you mean yu had to pay up front? do you mean before they had
>even treated your cat? unlikely I think
>dunno aboutthe US of A but in blighty you only afer treatment is
>complete and even then you coudl proabbly work out a payment plan with
>the vet, they're not mad money grabbers you know but they do have
>their own bills to cover.
>
>bookie

Hey Bookie - you say you thought it's unlikely that a clinic could ask for $$
$$ upfront? and that's $$$$ as in LOTS of money? I'm in Toronto & let me tell
you about the 2 Emergency Animal Clinics in the north part of the city here
(see, I'm not naming names, but anyone from here with pets will be able to
figure out which emergency clinics in North York I'm talking about!). If you
have an emergency & have to use their services, they let you know before a
vet will see your pet that you will have to pay right then & there for
treatment. And they really charge! I've had no choice but to use these
emergency clinics a couple times over the past 20 years. The last time was
about 5 years ago, a couple days after my 16 yr old orange CRF kitty Ginger
was put to sleep & released from his misery at my regular vet's office.
Ginger & my other 16 yr female cat Tigra had been brought together since they
were kittens & were inseparable. When Ginger didn't come home with me, she
stopped eating, drinking, moving, just sat numb on a chair. By Thursday, day
3 of not eating, when I realized the weekend was coming up, I panicked & took
her to my regular cat vet (normal billing procedures, normal reasonable rates)
where she stayed overnight, but they told me on the Friday they couldn't give
her appropriate intensive care over the weekend & arranged for her to be
transferred to the nearby Emergency Clinic. I had to pay this clinic $1,000
Canadian upfront on my arrival there (like a retainer) & sign that I would
accept responsibility for all other treatment charges until she was released.
I moved her back to my regular vet on the Monday, $1500 - $1600 poorer in
total costs. For IV, drugs, an xray or 2. What was wrong with her? I don't
know - the vets didn't find anything - grief I guess. The bill from my
regular vet for the couple days there was less than $300. Quite a difference.
I had the same experience years earlier at the other Emergency Clinic with
another cat. The only positive thing I can say about these clinics - they're
there, they're open & well-staffed 24/7. And my gentle beige & white cat
Coco (or maybe he's soft brown & white, or blonde & white) was unwanted,
dumped & caged there for 3-4 months. When I came to pick up Tigra, I saw Coco
there & came back later & adopted him.
M.

--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200705/1

Lis
May 30th 07, 04:58 AM
On May 29, 5:19 pm, bookie > wrote:
> On 29 May, 21:27, "Lilah Morgan" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "cybercat" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > > I will never understand these sorry assholes who post that they have
> > > an injured or sick cat, and have not taken the animal to the vet. If it
> > > were a child, they would find a way. Or maybe they wouldn't. Poor
> > > cats.
>
> > Except that unfortunately, hospitals and such will most likely not refuse to
> > treat a critically injured human because they don't have an upfront deposit.
> > But most vet clinics to my knowledge don't get the donations/funding that
> > human hospitals get, so they are solely dependent upon the fees they earn.
> > If you don't have the money, you(and more specifically your pet) are in
> > trouble. Are vet clinics able to get extra funding/donations like hospitals
> > do(because then they could put some aside for emergency cases)? I try not to
> > know too much about tax law and such like that, it makes me confused and
> > gives me a headache, and I'm confused enough most of the time lately. I'm
> > just grateful that when Joxer had his accident, I had just gotten enough
> > money to pay for all his vet bills upfront. And do cats really have such a
> > fuss about going to the vet? Joxer never really did...he didn't like being
> > in the carrier, but he wasn't aggressive or nothing, he was just slightly
> > annoyed at being 'cooped up', and when I picked him up after his surgery,
> > the clinic had a little report card to go with the itemized bill and such,
> > and Joxer was very well behaved...he's a laid back kinda guy :-) Speaking
> > of, I am trying to get more pictures of him, but he's camera shy...I did
> > manage to get one of him peeking out from the side of the table when he was
> > wondering what I was doing at least ;-)
>
> what do you mean yu had to pay up front? do you mean before they had
> even treated your cat? unlikely I think
> dunno aboutthe US of A but in blighty you only afer treatment is
> complete and even then you coudl proabbly work out a payment plan with
> the vet, they're not mad money grabbers you know but they do have
> their own bills to cover.

The UK is not the whole world, and unfortunately in the USA many vet
clinics do require payment up front--but they're also usually willing
to work out payment plans for expensive procedures. Also, regular
clients get treated differently than a stranger who's come in for the
first time. When I recently had my dog spayed, the form I signed said
I was acknowledging that payment was required in advance--but in fact,
they waited until I came back to pick her up to take my payment. Not
because I asked them; that's just what they did.

> for peple in serious money strife over here there is the PDSA
> (people's dispensary for sick animals) which will give care for
> animals of people on the dole (on state benefits or unemployed or long
> term sick) and old people on state pensions, so people om the dole
> have no excuses either really. Also i think the blue cross helps out
> that way too but not entirely sure, I have never had to use either
> myself as I always try to find the money form somewhere
> unlike the majority of people on the brink of poverty I don't spend
> every last penny i have on gin and fags, instead I save any spare cash
> i get hold of just for and cat-related emergencies which may occur,
> but then i must be odd like that

It's sometimes possible to get assistance from various pet charitable
funds for necessary surgery, but it's limited and not something you
can take for granted or plan on at all. We recently had a fair bit of
national coverage for a handicapped war veteran who was mowing lawns
to raise money for surgery for his dog.

Lis

the_narrator
May 30th 07, 06:35 AM
Calico... I have just joined this thread tonight....I hope by now the two of
you are settling down nicely and both as comfortable as possible. You DID do
the right thing in taking the cat to the vet, and had you kept her at home,
she could very easily have succumbed to the shock and departed that night.
And it is likely that the meds the vet gave her saved her from terrible
consequences occurring, and you could not have done that at home. And keeping
her in overnight was so that they could keep an eye on her and take care of
her in case she had additional unknown problems to show up later. Please
enjoy each other and be happy together, and don't let nasty-minded people
make you feel guilty.... you did the best thing you knew to do at the time,
you listened to your instincts, and now you know you must always take a cat
to the vet after a trauma. You have learned several lessons, and it is
wonderful of you to have taken your late brother's cat to care for. You have
a wonderful connection there between him and you.
I hope you enjoy each others'company for many years to come.... and one trick
I've used re: the carrier/vet situation...... try leaving the carrier on the
floor and open, with a little blanket in it and maybe a toy or two. She'll
get so comfortable with it she might even come to like it, and that will
defuse a great deal of the anxiety associated with the next vet visit.
I wish you a long and happy and healthy life together.

Calico wrote:
>On May 27, 12:48 pm, "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER>
>wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>>
>[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>>
>> MaryL
>
>Thanks - I just have an awful feeling that the vet made the wrong
>decision in keeping her in there tonight. He said she'd be fine but
>surely she would be better off at home where at least she would be
>relaxed and have someone to check on her. And I don't believe him when
>he said there was no threat to her life. I'll keep you updated.
>Hopefully she'll be okay.

sheelagh
May 30th 07, 06:28 PM
On 30 May, 04:58, Lis > wrote:
> On May 29, 5:19 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 29 May, 21:27, "Lilah Morgan" > wrote:
>
> > > "cybercat" > wrote in message
>
> > ...
>
> > > > I will never understand these sorry assholes who post that they have
> > > > an injured or sick cat, and have not taken the animal to the vet. If it
> > > > were a child, they would find a way. Or maybe they wouldn't. Poor
> > > > cats.
>
> > > Except that unfortunately, hospitals and such will most likely not refuse to
> > > treat a critically injured human because they don't have an upfront deposit.
> > > But most vet clinics to my knowledge don't get the donations/funding that
> > > human hospitals get, so they are solely dependent upon the fees they earn.
> > > If you don't have the money, you(and more specifically your pet) are in
> > > trouble. Are vet clinics able to get extra funding/donations like hospitals
> > > do(because then they could put some aside for emergency cases)? I try not to
> > > know too much about tax law and such like that, it makes me confused and
> > > gives me a headache, and I'm confused enough most of the time lately. I'm
> > > just grateful that when Joxer had his accident, I had just gotten enough
> > > money to pay for all his vet bills upfront. And do cats really have such a
> > > fuss about going to the vet? Joxer never really did...he didn't like being
> > > in the carrier, but he wasn't aggressive or nothing, he was just slightly
> > > annoyed at being 'cooped up', and when I picked him up after his surgery,
> > > the clinic had a little report card to go with the itemized bill and such,
> > > and Joxer was very well behaved...he's a laid back kinda guy :-) Speaking
> > > of, I am trying to get more pictures of him, but he's camera shy...I did
> > > manage to get one of him peeking out from the side of the table when he was
> > > wondering what I was doing at least ;-)
>
> > what do you mean yu had to pay up front? do you mean before they had
> > even treated your cat? unlikely I think
> > dunno aboutthe US of A but in blighty you only afer treatment is
> > complete and even then you coudl proabbly work out a payment plan with
> > the vet, they're not mad money grabbers you know but they do have
> > their own bills to cover.
>
> The UK is not the whole world, and unfortunately in the USA many vet
> clinics do require payment up front--but they're also usually willing
> to work out payment plans for expensive procedures. Also, regular
> clients get treated differently than a stranger who's come in for the
> first time. When I recently had my dog spayed, the form I signed said
> I was acknowledging that payment was required in advance--but in fact,
> they waited until I came back to pick her up to take my payment. Not
> because I asked them; that's just what they did.
>
> > for peple in serious money strife over here there is the PDSA
> > (people's dispensary for sick animals) which will give care for
> > animals of people on the dole (on state benefits or unemployed or long
> > term sick) and old people on state pensions, so people om the dole
> > have no excuses either really. Also i think the blue cross helps out
> > that way too but not entirely sure, I have never had to use either
> > myself as I always try to find the money form somewhere
> > unlike the majority of people on the brink of poverty I don't spend
> > every last penny i have on gin and fags, instead I save any spare cash
> > i get hold of just for and cat-related emergencies which may occur,
> > but then i must be odd like that
>
> It's sometimes possible to get assistance from various pet charitable
> funds for necessary surgery, but it's limited and not something you
> can take for granted or plan on at all. We recently had a fair bit of
> national coverage for a handicapped war veteran who was mowing lawns
> to raise money for surgery for his dog.
>
> Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Bookie isn't the only one who thinks this way. I find it rather hard
to understand as well, but then again, I live in the UK too..
I was shocked to read Mari's story. It seems a bit mercenary, but I
suppose you are right Lis

Having said that, all our vet's get, is what their customers pay them
to do, here as well. All of the charities and organisations that
Bookie mentions to you are run on charitable donations that we, the
public, contribute to them. None of it happens for nothing as it were!
The RSPCA, are not funded at all by the government, nor is the Blue x
or the Cat Protection League either. All of it works on us working
with them, to ensure that if people who are less fortunate, for one
reason or another @ that time, do get the chance to ensure that they
pets do don't remain in pain & are treated as they should be.

Taking this into consideration, you might understand why we find it
hard to take in the fact that no one will help, unless there is
something in it for them?

Take this situation for example. If this were to happen over here,
there are several options available. You could start by calling any of
these charities and they would advise you on what best to do. If you
simply"CAN'T" treat the cat, then we would probably go to the cat
protection League who "Will" take the cats into their care & for the
duration of the stay, or treament, then allow them home when they are
treated...

If it is treatment that is needed, you would normally go to your vet
with your sick cat. At the start, the vet will tell you that if there
is any chance that you can't foot the bill, that you must sign an
agreement agreeing to pay in due course on a regular basis. they will
also tell you where to go to get financial support it you can't get to
one of their own hospitals, or there is not one in your area. Anyone
who doesn't pay their vet's bill, will end up in court!!

In fact part of taking your cat to the vet, is to get advice like
this, & to put you in touch with the charities that she mentioned, who
will help you towards the cost of the treatment your cat needs. It
seems rather incomprehensible that any Vet would say they are not
willing to treat unless there is a retainer paid. I guess we simply
don't want to believe that a vet would turn away a cat in need,
because it would never happen over here (touch wood, I'm sure it will
happen in the end!).;o(

If there was a situation where a cat was in desperate need & you
simply don't have what is required to get the cat treated, you have 2
options open to you. Get yourself to one of the hospitals or
charities, or call the RSPCA, who "Will" respond to your call and
collect the cat. I think the major factor in this one is relativity.
The UK is a hell of a lot smaller than the USA, so when we think
covers the whole country, we have different perspectives on how big
Nationwide can be!!

I understand it, I just don't like it.. it feels really sad...
S.

Lilah Morgan
May 30th 07, 09:52 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...

> Bookie isn't the only one who thinks this way. I find it rather hard
> to understand as well, but then again, I live in the UK too..

I know the UK is more considerate when it comes to animals than the US is. A
friend of mine in Liverpool adopted a kitten last year, and here in the
States, at animal shelters you basically just pay like $50 and you get to
take the animal home. But she told me that there it's much more involved.
You get a home visit, your financial/employment status gets checked, etc,
all to make sure the animal you want to adopt is going to be in a home where
they are not only loved, but if any medical issues should arise, that the
owners will be able to cover the bills. I wish they took that much care when
animals get adopted here. Used to watch a show about ASPCA(American Society
for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) officers investigating complaints of
animal cruelty, and I couldn't stomach it for too long. It wasn't so much
the ones about people getting more animals than they could decently provide
for, it was more all the incidents of people raising dogs for fighting(I
personally feel that the people who raised dogs to be nothing but killing
machines should be locked in a room with those dogs for a while), and the
ones where the people did have the means to provide for the animals, they
just didn't care. And back to vet bills and cats...the 24hour vet place I
took Joxer to when he finally came home, I believe I paid $200 up front, and
they didn't fix him up there, they just gave him some anti-shock stuff and
cleaned the wound a bit...they seemed rather annoyed that when they said I
could take him home and get him fixed up later, I wasn't sure if that was a
good idea. I mean his wound was BAD(I believe he nearly got cut to the
bone), and just because he was still functioning, I really didn't take that
as a sign of health. He had this thigh slashed open after all, and it was
still open. But they insisted he was ok, so I took him home, and the next
morning I took him to the clinic my friend worked at. And decided not to go
the 24hour place again if I could help it. That was the only medical
emergency I've ever had with a pet luckily. But we've usually paid upfront
anyways, though granted it was for routine stuff, a checkup, rabies shots,
or getting them fixed, etc, where it was a fixed cost to begin with.

sheelagh
May 31st 07, 12:06 AM
On 30 May, 21:52, "Lilah Morgan" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > Bookie isn't the only one who thinks this way. I find it rather hard
> > to understand as well, but then again, I live in the UK too..
>
> I know the UK is more considerate when it comes to animals than the US is. A
> friend of mine in Liverpool adopted a kitten last year, and here in the
> States, at animal shelters you basically just pay like $50 and you get to
> take the animal home. But she told me that there it's much more involved.
> You get a home visit, your financial/employment status gets checked, etc,
> all to make sure the animal you want to adopt is going to be in a home where
> they are not only loved, but if any medical issues should arise, that the
> owners will be able to cover the bills. I wish they took that much care when
> animals get adopted here. Used to watch a show about ASPCA(American Society
> for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) officers investigating complaints of
> animal cruelty, and I couldn't stomach it for too long. It wasn't so much
> the ones about people getting more animals than they could decently provide
> for, it was more all the incidents of people raising dogs for fighting(I
> personally feel that the people who raised dogs to be nothing but killing
> machines should be locked in a room with those dogs for a while), and the
> ones where the people did have the means to provide for the animals, they
> just didn't care. And back to vet bills and cats...the 24hour vet place I
> took Joxer to when he finally came home, I believe I paid $200 up front, and
> they didn't fix him up there, they just gave him some anti-shock stuff and
> cleaned the wound a bit...they seemed rather annoyed that when they said I
> could take him home and get him fixed up later, I wasn't sure if that was a
> good idea. I mean his wound was BAD(I believe he nearly got cut to the
> bone), and just because he was still functioning, I really didn't take that
> as a sign of health. He had this thigh slashed open after all, and it was
> still open. But they insisted he was ok, so I took him home, and the next
> morning I took him to the clinic my friend worked at. And decided not to go
> the 24hour place again if I could help it. That was the only medical
> emergency I've ever had with a pet luckily. But we've usually paid upfront
> anyways, though granted it was for routine stuff, a checkup, rabies shots,
> or getting them fixed, etc, where it was a fixed cost to begin with.

OMG, I hope that I didn't sound like I was saying the USA doesn't!!?

We just have a different system. Your right about getting vetted for a
cat or kitten if you want one from any of the charities or catteries.
I would never place a cat that I didn't think "felt right"...It has to
be someone that can afford it, will put the cat first every time, & if
they can't, the first person they would call, would be me. If none of
these things fit, even right down to the home...the cat never leave.
but If I am happy, then we allow the cat to be homed, especially if
they have chemistry. That is quite important too. I think you might
find it interesting for you see what we have to offer people can
access if there is a dire need. (ie: someone who doesn't expect to
loose his job, might well be a slave to a pair of cat's, who might
become ill for instance, then they can help you out there) The link
will help. To cost things, double the cost to appreciate the $ &
judge for yourself.....

http://www.pdsa.org.uk/aboutpdsa.html


This is one of the best providers of help in our country, & the other
carer & provider of assistance is the RSPCA. They same as your society
but totally funded by donation's. Our government does nothing to fund
them at all as far as I am aware.
S;o)

sheelagh
May 31st 07, 12:14 AM
On 31 May, 00:06, sheelagh > wrote:
> On 30 May, 21:52, "Lilah Morgan" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > > Bookie isn't the only one who thinks this way. I find it rather hard
> > > to understand as well, but then again, I live in the UK too..
>
> > I know the UK is more considerate when it comes to animals than the US is. A
> > friend of mine in Liverpool adopted a kitten last year, and here in the
> > States, at animal shelters you basically just pay like $50 and you get to
> > take the animal home. But she told me that there it's much more involved.
> > You get a home visit, your financial/employment status gets checked, etc,
> > all to make sure the animal you want to adopt is going to be in a home where
> > they are not only loved, but if any medical issues should arise, that the
> > owners will be able to cover the bills. I wish they took that much care when
> > animals get adopted here. Used to watch a show about ASPCA(American Society
> > for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) officers investigating complaints of
> > animal cruelty, and I couldn't stomach it for too long. It wasn't so much
> > the ones about people getting more animals than they could decently provide
> > for, it was more all the incidents of people raising dogs for fighting(I
> > personally feel that the people who raised dogs to be nothing but killing
> > machines should be locked in a room with those dogs for a while), and the
> > ones where the people did have the means to provide for the animals, they
> > just didn't care. And back to vet bills and cats...the 24hour vet place I
> > took Joxer to when he finally came home, I believe I paid $200 up front, and
> > they didn't fix him up there, they just gave him some anti-shock stuff and
> > cleaned the wound a bit...they seemed rather annoyed that when they said I
> > could take him home and get him fixed up later, I wasn't sure if that was a
> > good idea. I mean his wound was BAD(I believe he nearly got cut to the
> > bone), and just because he was still functioning, I really didn't take that
> > as a sign of health. He had this thigh slashed open after all, and it was
> > still open. But they insisted he was ok, so I took him home, and the next
> > morning I took him to the clinic my friend worked at. And decided not to go
> > the 24hour place again if I could help it. That was the only medical
> > emergency I've ever had with a pet luckily. But we've usually paid upfront
> > anyways, though granted it was for routine stuff, a checkup, rabies shots,
> > or getting them fixed, etc, where it was a fixed cost to begin with.
>
> OMG, I hope that I didn't sound like I was saying the USA doesn't!!?
>
> We just have a different system. Your right about getting vetted for a
> cat or kitten if you want one from any of the charities or catteries.
> I would never place a cat that I didn't think "felt right"...It has to
> be someone that can afford it, will put the cat first every time, & if
> they can't, the first person they would call, would be me. If none of
> these things fit, even right down to the home...the cat never leave.
> but If I am happy, then we allow the cat to be homed, especially if
> they have chemistry. That is quite important too. I think you might
> find it interesting for you see what we have to offer people can
> access if there is a dire need. (ie: someone who doesn't expect to
> loose his job, might well be a slave to a pair of cat's, who might
> become ill for instance, then they can help you out there) The link
> will help. To cost things, double the cost to appreciate the $ &
> judge for yourself.....
>
> http://www.pdsa.org.uk/aboutpdsa.html
>
> This is one of the best providers of help in our country, & the other
> carer & provider of assistance is the RSPCA. They same as your society
> but totally funded by donation's. Our government does nothing to fund
> them at all as far as I am aware.
> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

This might be a more relevant page for you without having to look to
see what they offer in the way of help, to whom & why.....

http://www.pdsa.org.uk/eligibility.html
S;o)

bookie
May 31st 07, 02:14 AM
On 31 May, 00:14, sheelagh > wrote:
> On 31 May, 00:06, sheelagh > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 30 May, 21:52, "Lilah Morgan" > wrote:
>
> > > "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> > ups.com...
>
> > > > Bookie isn't the only one who thinks this way. I find it rather hard
> > > > to understand as well, but then again, I live in the UK too..
>
> > > I know the UK is more considerate when it comes to animals than the US is. A
> > > friend of mine in Liverpool adopted a kitten last year, and here in the
> > > States, at animal shelters you basically just pay like $50 and you get to
> > > take the animal home. But she told me that there it's much more involved.
> > > You get a home visit, your financial/employment status gets checked, etc,
> > > all to make sure the animal you want to adopt is going to be in a home where
> > > they are not only loved, but if any medical issues should arise, that the
> > > owners will be able to cover the bills. I wish they took that much care when
> > > animals get adopted here. Used to watch a show about ASPCA(American Society
> > > for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) officers investigating complaints of
> > > animal cruelty, and I couldn't stomach it for too long. It wasn't so much
> > > the ones about people getting more animals than they could decently provide
> > > for, it was more all the incidents of people raising dogs for fighting(I
> > > personally feel that the people who raised dogs to be nothing but killing
> > > machines should be locked in a room with those dogs for a while), and the
> > > ones where the people did have the means to provide for the animals, they
> > > just didn't care. And back to vet bills and cats...the 24hour vet place I
> > > took Joxer to when he finally came home, I believe I paid $200 up front, and
> > > they didn't fix him up there, they just gave him some anti-shock stuff and
> > > cleaned the wound a bit...they seemed rather annoyed that when they said I
> > > could take him home and get him fixed up later, I wasn't sure if that was a
> > > good idea. I mean his wound was BAD(I believe he nearly got cut to the
> > > bone), and just because he was still functioning, I really didn't take that
> > > as a sign of health. He had this thigh slashed open after all, and it was
> > > still open. But they insisted he was ok, so I took him home, and the next
> > > morning I took him to the clinic my friend worked at. And decided not to go
> > > the 24hour place again if I could help it. That was the only medical
> > > emergency I've ever had with a pet luckily. But we've usually paid upfront
> > > anyways, though granted it was for routine stuff, a checkup, rabies shots,
> > > or getting them fixed, etc, where it was a fixed cost to begin with.
>
> > OMG, I hope that I didn't sound like I was saying the USA doesn't!!?
>
> > We just have a different system. Your right about getting vetted for a
> > cat or kitten if you want one from any of the charities or catteries.
> > I would never place a cat that I didn't think "felt right"...It has to
> > be someone that can afford it, will put the cat first every time, & if
> > they can't, the first person they would call, would be me. If none of
> > these things fit, even right down to the home...the cat never leave.
> > but If I am happy, then we allow the cat to be homed, especially if
> > they have chemistry. That is quite important too. I think you might
> > find it interesting for you see what we have to offer people can
> > access if there is a dire need. (ie: someone who doesn't expect to
> > loose his job, might well be a slave to a pair of cat's, who might
> > become ill for instance, then they can help you out there) The link
> > will help. To cost things, double the cost to appreciate the $ &
> > judge for yourself.....
>
> >http://www.pdsa.org.uk/aboutpdsa.html
>
> > This is one of the best providers of help in our country, & the other
> > carer & provider of assistance is the RSPCA. They same as your society
> > but totally funded by donation's. Our government does nothing to fund
> > them at all as far as I am aware.
> > S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> This might be a more relevant page for you without having to look to
> see what they offer in the way of help, to whom & why.....
>
> http://www.pdsa.org.uk/eligibility.html
> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

to be honest i just think that us inthe UK tend to be a bit more
caring towards our animals as a country, as a whole, (not talking
about individuals here ok??!!!) and so are more willing to help out
animals for no reason than the fact that we are all animal mad here ,
pretty much, few exceptions of course (remember that weird guy who was
shooting at animals and cats and birds, was not english, he was czech
or something).

if someone took a sick cat to the vet and the vet refused to do
anything then letters woudl be written, the vet would be 'outed' in
the press, people would moan about how outrageous it is that we are
letting down our pets, what happened to the dunkirk spirit, stiff
upper lips, simply not cricket, that it's not what a true englishman
gentleman does ie lets down his faithful friend in the hour of need,
etc etc, and any vet like that would be shamed into helping the animal
regardless of the cost to them and their business. I knwo a couple of
vets and they don;t run their practices to make money at all, they
just about cover costs and that's it and none go into it to make
money, in fact they kind of assume that they may lose some money and
they won't be making huge profits out of it.

if you take an injured stray cat to the vets in this country you
EXPECT the vet to help the cat without question, money issues can wait
(anyway we dontl talk about money over here, simply not done , very
rude in fact), there is a life at stake, and anyone who refused to
help purely on the grounds of lack of payment for their services woudl
be very much in the minority and looked down upon.

what am i trying to say here? basically peolpe in this country are not
out ot make money, certainly anyone connected with helping animals,
vets vet nurses, people who help out animal charities dont; do it for
the moeny and accept that alot of their own money will go towards
helping animals. We just don;t have the 'money-grabbing' culture that
you seem to have in the US, remember that inthis country you can be of
a certain class (middle class, upper class, whichever) with relatively
little money at your disposal, it all about lineage and education and
how you were brought up etc etc, not always to do with cold hard cash
and the acquiring of it.

Class inthis country is also to do with behaviour, and one of the
types of behaviour which is encouraged is being charitable and helping
those less fortunate than oruselves, ie animals, regardless of the
personal cost to ourselves. Which is why vets here don't demand to see
a credit card before they look at your pet, that kind of thing would
be unthinkable and any vet doing that would quickly go out of
business, very vulgar way to go on indeed.

anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
(and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
ways in which we look at our animasl for me

bookie

Lilah Morgan
May 31st 07, 07:43 AM
"bookie" > wrote in message
ups.com...

> anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> your cats declawed and have pristine furniture

My family has actually never declawed our cats. Never seen the point...claw
marks on old furniture just give it more character...can tease people by
saying something like "Oh yeah that was from lion cub when my grandparents
bought this (insert furniture piece name here) on an African safari". That
and I feel a cat should be able to defend itself if need be. I like
furniture that looks used(not like falling apart, but comfortable, like it's
seen generations use it, and it's still going strong) anyways. We just
simply buy(or make) a scratching post because it's natural for them to work
their claws by scratching. They're not doing it as a personal gesture of
contempt. Well Joxer never has. Little freak instead when he gets upset with
me, he'll just wait and simply leave a 'present' for me in my bed...while
I'm sleeping. Though he's only done that once, after I got home from a
'vacation'(my mother took care of him in my absence), and he felt horribly
put out about it. And he is not aggressive at all. Well except when he's in
hunt mode when there's mice or chipmunks around. Generally speaking, his
goal in life is to have his head scratched and his tummy rubbed and his
food/water dish full at all times, and some catnip every once in a while. Oh
and some rubber bands to play with(he loves them for some reason). But yeah,
the US does have quite a few problems when it comes to the medical care
system(for animals as well as people).

Charlie Wilkes
May 31st 07, 09:11 AM
In article >, says...
>
> "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Mon, 28 May 2007 03:17:13 -0400, cybercat wrote:
> >
> >> Take responsibility for your actions. Your cat fell out of the window,
> >> and you allowed her to go without veterinary treatment for 48 hours.
> >> Any complaints you have with your vet, if indeed you ever took the cat
> >> to a vet, are a separate issue.
> >
> > I think you're being too hard on her. If what she posted is accurate,
> > she may have erred in her judgment, but not because she lacks concern or
> > commitment.
> >
> > My dog got killed because of my poor judgment, so I'm sensitive to the
> > distinction.
> >
>
> Charlie, if your dog were hurt you would have taken him for treatment.
>
> If he fell out the blinking window and had blood coming out of his
> nose, are you telling me you would not take him to a vet?
>
> I will never understand these sorry assholes who post that they have
> an injured or sick cat, and have not taken the animal to the vet. If it
> were a child, they would find a way. Or maybe they wouldn't. Poor
> cats.

It wasn't a question of "finding a way." She took the animal to a vet
on Sunday, which is no easier or cheaper than doing so on Saturday. She
didn't mention the cost as being a problem. She merely showed poor
judgment, and she admitted as much in her first post. Here is what she
wrote:

"I feel so guilty! I should have made sure the close the window
properly and brought her to the vet IMMEDIATELY after it happened."

I don't see the point of attacking someone who acknowledges a mistake.

Also, she didn't hold off on the vet for 48 hours... it was less than 24
hours.

Charlie

bookie
May 31st 07, 01:37 PM
On 31 May, 07:43, "Lilah Morgan" > wrote:
> "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture
>
> My family has actually never declawed our cats. Never seen the point...claw
> marks on old furniture just give it more character...can tease people by
> saying something like "Oh yeah that was from lion cub when my grandparents
> bought this (insert furniture piece name here) on an African safari". That
> and I feel a cat should be able to defend itself if need be. I like
> furniture that looks used(not like falling apart, but comfortable, like it's
> seen generations use it, and it's still going strong) anyways. We just
> simply buy(or make) a scratching post because it's natural for them to work
> their claws by scratching. They're not doing it as a personal gesture of
> contempt. Well Joxer never has. Little freak instead when he gets upset with
> me, he'll just wait and simply leave a 'present' for me in my bed...while
> I'm sleeping. Though he's only done that once, after I got home from a
> 'vacation'(my mother took care of him in my absence), and he felt horribly
> put out about it. And he is not aggressive at all. Well except when he's in
> hunt mode when there's mice or chipmunks around. Generally speaking, his
> goal in life is to have his head scratched and his tummy rubbed and his
> food/water dish full at all times, and some catnip every once in a while. Oh
> and some rubber bands to play with(he loves them for some reason). But yeah,
> the US does have quite a few problems when it comes to the medical care
> system(for animals as well as people).

no I didn't mean YOU personally (did i not put that?) i meant the US
of A generally, just different attitudes to money and life
people really complain about the nhs in this country but they don;t
know how lucky they are really

sheelagh
May 31st 07, 02:40 PM
On 31 May, 09:11, Charlie Wilkes >
wrote:
> In article >, says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > On Mon, 28 May 2007 03:17:13 -0400, cybercat wrote:
>
> > >> Take responsibility for your actions. Your cat fell out of the window,
> > >> and you allowed her to go without veterinary treatment for 48 hours.
> > >> Any complaints you have with your vet, if indeed you ever took the cat
> > >> to a vet, are a separate issue.
>
> > > I think you're being too hard on her. If what she posted is accurate,
> > > she may have erred in her judgment, but not because she lacks concern or
> > > commitment.
>
> > > My dog got killed because of my poor judgment, so I'm sensitive to the
> > > distinction.
>
> > Charlie, if your dog were hurt you would have taken him for treatment.
>
> > If he fell out the blinking window and had blood coming out of his
> > nose, are you telling me you would not take him to a vet?
>
> > I will never understand these sorry assholes who post that they have
> > an injured or sick cat, and have not taken the animal to the vet. If it
> > were a child, they would find a way. Or maybe they wouldn't. Poor
> > cats.
>
> It wasn't a question of "finding a way." She took the animal to a vet
> on Sunday, which is no easier or cheaper than doing so on Saturday. She
> didn't mention the cost as being a problem. She merely showed poor
> judgment, and she admitted as much in her first post. Here is what she
> wrote:
>
> "I feel so guilty! I should have made sure the close the window
> properly and brought her to the vet IMMEDIATELY after it happened."
>
> I don't see the point of attacking someone who acknowledges a mistake.
>
> Also, she didn't hold off on the vet for 48 hours... it was less than 24
> hours.
>
> Charlie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Very true.....
S;o)

sheelagh
May 31st 07, 03:47 PM
On 31 May, 02:14, bookie > wrote:
> On 31 May, 00:14, sheelagh > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 31 May, 00:06, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > On 30 May, 21:52, "Lilah Morgan" > wrote:
>
> > > > "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> > > ups.com...
>
> > > > > Bookie isn't the only one who thinks this way. I find it rather hard
> > > > > to understand as well, but then again, I live in the UK too..
>
> > > > I know the UK is more considerate when it comes to animals than the US is. A
> > > > friend of mine in Liverpool adopted a kitten last year, and here in the
> > > > States, at animal shelters you basically just pay like $50 and you get to
> > > > take the animal home. But she told me that there it's much more involved.
> > > > You get a home visit, your financial/employment status gets checked, etc,
> > > > all to make sure the animal you want to adopt is going to be in a home where
> > > > they are not only loved, but if any medical issues should arise, that the
> > > > owners will be able to cover the bills. I wish they took that much care when
> > > > animals get adopted here. Used to watch a show about ASPCA(American Society
> > > > for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) officers investigating complaints of
> > > > animal cruelty, and I couldn't stomach it for too long. It wasn't so much
> > > > the ones about people getting more animals than they could decently provide
> > > > for, it was more all the incidents of people raising dogs for fighting(I
> > > > personally feel that the people who raised dogs to be nothing but killing
> > > > machines should be locked in a room with those dogs for a while), and the
> > > > ones where the people did have the means to provide for the animals, they
> > > > just didn't care. And back to vet bills and cats...the 24hour vet place I
> > > > took Joxer to when he finally came home, I believe I paid $200 up front, and
> > > > they didn't fix him up there, they just gave him some anti-shock stuff and
> > > > cleaned the wound a bit...they seemed rather annoyed that when they said I
> > > > could take him home and get him fixed up later, I wasn't sure if that was a
> > > > good idea. I mean his wound was BAD(I believe he nearly got cut to the
> > > > bone), and just because he was still functioning, I really didn't take that
> > > > as a sign of health. He had this thigh slashed open after all, and it was
> > > > still open. But they insisted he was ok, so I took him home, and the next
> > > > morning I took him to the clinic my friend worked at. And decided not to go
> > > > the 24hour place again if I could help it. That was the only medical
> > > > emergency I've ever had with a pet luckily. But we've usually paid upfront
> > > > anyways, though granted it was for routine stuff, a checkup, rabies shots,
> > > > or getting them fixed, etc, where it was a fixed cost to begin with.
>
> > > OMG, I hope that I didn't sound like I was saying the USA doesn't!!?
>
> > > We just have a different system. Your right about getting vetted for a
> > > cat or kitten if you want one from any of the charities or catteries.
> > > I would never place a cat that I didn't think "felt right"...It has to
> > > be someone that can afford it, will put the cat first every time, & if
> > > they can't, the first person they would call, would be me. If none of
> > > these things fit, even right down to the home...the cat never leave.
> > > but If I am happy, then we allow the cat to be homed, especially if
> > > they have chemistry. That is quite important too. I think you might
> > > find it interesting for you see what we have to offer people can
> > > access if there is a dire need. (ie: someone who doesn't expect to
> > > loose his job, might well be a slave to a pair of cat's, who might
> > > become ill for instance, then they can help you out there) The link
> > > will help. To cost things, double the cost to appreciate the $ &
> > > judge for yourself.....
>
> > >http://www.pdsa.org.uk/aboutpdsa.html
>
> > > This is one of the best providers of help in our country, & the other
> > > carer & provider of assistance is the RSPCA. They same as your society
> > > but totally funded by donation's. Our government does nothing to fund
> > > them at all as far as I am aware.
> > > S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > This might be a more relevant page for you without having to look to
> > see what they offer in the way of help, to whom & why.....
>
> >http://www.pdsa.org.uk/eligibility.html
> > S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> to be honest i just think that us inthe UK tend to be a bit more
> caring towards our animals as a country, as a whole, (not talking
> about individuals here ok??!!!) and so are more willing to help out
> animals for no reason than the fact that we are all animal mad here ,
> pretty much, few exceptions of course (remember that weird guy who was
> shooting at animals and cats and birds, was not english, he was czech
> or something).
>
> if someone took a sick cat to the vet and the vet refused to do
> anything then letters woudl be written, the vet would be 'outed' in
> the press, people would moan about how outrageous it is that we are
> letting down our pets, what happened to the dunkirk spirit, stiff
> upper lips, simply not cricket, that it's not what a true englishman
> gentleman does ie lets down his faithful friend in the hour of need,
> etc etc, and any vet like that would be shamed into helping the animal
> regardless of the cost to them and their business. I knwo a couple of
> vets and they don;t run their practices to make money at all, they
> just about cover costs and that's it and none go into it to make
> money, in fact they kind of assume that they may lose some money and
> they won't be making huge profits out of it.
>
> if you take an injured stray cat to the vets in this country you
> EXPECT the vet to help the cat without question, money issues can wait
> (anyway we dontl talk about money over here, simply not done , very
> rude in fact), there is a life at stake, and anyone who refused to
> help purely on the grounds of lack of payment for their services woudl
> be very much in the minority and looked down upon.
>
> what am i trying to say here? basically peolpe in this country are not
> out ot make money, certainly anyone connected with helping animals,
> vets vet nurses, people who help out animal charities dont; do it for
> the moeny and accept that alot of their own money will go towards
> helping animals. We just don;t have the 'money-grabbing' culture that
> you seem to have in the US, remember that inthis country you can be of
> a certain class (middle class, upper class, whichever) with relatively
> little money at your disposal, it all about lineage and education and
> how you were brought up etc etc, not always to do with cold hard cash
> and the acquiring of it.
>
> Class inthis country is also to do with behaviour, and one of the
> types of behaviour which is encouraged is being charitable and helping
> those less fortunate than oruselves, ie animals, regardless of the
> personal cost to ourselves. Which is why vets here don't demand to see
> a credit card before they look at your pet, that kind of thing would
> be unthinkable and any vet doing that would quickly go out of
> business, very vulgar way to go on indeed.
>
> anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> ways in which we look at our animasl for me
>
> bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

> if you take an injured stray cat to the vets in this country you
> EXPECT the vet to help the cat without question, money issues can wait
> (anyway we dontl talk about money over here, simply not done , very
> rude in fact), there is a life at stake, and anyone who refused to
> help purely on the grounds of lack of payment for their services woudl
> be very much in the minority and looked down upon.

We tend to go to the press when we weed out a vet who puts his pension
fund before his clients. It has the most amazing knack of emptying
their surgery's & filling others who are slightly more compassionate.
It's simply incorrect to think that way, if you want our money to fund
it
S;o)

Very well put though Bookie!

cybercat
May 31st 07, 04:07 PM
"Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
. ..
> In article >, says...
>>
>> "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On Mon, 28 May 2007 03:17:13 -0400, cybercat wrote:
>> >
>> >> Take responsibility for your actions. Your cat fell out of the window,
>> >> and you allowed her to go without veterinary treatment for 48 hours.
>> >> Any complaints you have with your vet, if indeed you ever took the cat
>> >> to a vet, are a separate issue.
>> >
>> > I think you're being too hard on her. If what she posted is accurate,
>> > she may have erred in her judgment, but not because she lacks concern
>> > or
>> > commitment.
>> >
>> > My dog got killed because of my poor judgment, so I'm sensitive to the
>> > distinction.
>> >
>>
>> Charlie, if your dog were hurt you would have taken him for treatment.
>>
>> If he fell out the blinking window and had blood coming out of his
>> nose, are you telling me you would not take him to a vet?
>>
>> I will never understand these sorry assholes who post that they have
>> an injured or sick cat, and have not taken the animal to the vet. If it
>> were a child, they would find a way. Or maybe they wouldn't. Poor
>> cats.
>
> It wasn't a question of "finding a way." She took the animal to a vet
> on Sunday, which is no easier or cheaper than doing so on Saturday. She
> didn't mention the cost as being a problem. She merely showed poor
> judgment, and she admitted as much in her first post. Here is what she
> wrote:
>
> "I feel so guilty! I should have made sure the close the window
> properly and brought her to the vet IMMEDIATELY after it happened."
>
> I don't see the point of attacking someone who acknowledges a mistake.
>
> Also, she didn't hold off on the vet for 48 hours... it was less than 24
> hours.
>

You're a much kinder, gentler human being than I am, Charlie. Good for
you.

Lis
May 31st 07, 07:35 PM
On May 30, 9:14 pm, bookie > wrote:

<snip>

> anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> ways in which we look at our animasl for me

Sweetie-pie, _some_ people have their cats declawed. It's
controversial, most vets refuse to do it in most circumstances, humane
societies and breeders generally include BOTH "must be an indoor cat
only" and "must not be declawed" clauses in all adoption/purchase
contracts.

I have happy cats, that have all their claws, AND mostly undamaged
furniture, because I've always provided appropriate scratching
surfaces for my cats, and taught them where they are.

As usual, when blathering on about the USA, you have no idea what
you're talking about.

Lis

Lis
May 31st 07, 07:38 PM
On May 31, 8:37 am, bookie > wrote:
> On 31 May, 07:43, "Lilah Morgan" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > > anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> > > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture
>
> > My family has actually never declawed our cats. Never seen the point...claw
> > marks on old furniture just give it more character...can tease people by
> > saying something like "Oh yeah that was from lion cub when my grandparents
> > bought this (insert furniture piece name here) on an African safari". That
> > and I feel a cat should be able to defend itself if need be. I like
> > furniture that looks used(not like falling apart, but comfortable, like it's
> > seen generations use it, and it's still going strong) anyways. We just
> > simply buy(or make) a scratching post because it's natural for them to work
> > their claws by scratching. They're not doing it as a personal gesture of
> > contempt. Well Joxer never has. Little freak instead when he gets upset with
> > me, he'll just wait and simply leave a 'present' for me in my bed...while
> > I'm sleeping. Though he's only done that once, after I got home from a
> > 'vacation'(my mother took care of him in my absence), and he felt horribly
> > put out about it. And he is not aggressive at all. Well except when he's in
> > hunt mode when there's mice or chipmunks around. Generally speaking, his
> > goal in life is to have his head scratched and his tummy rubbed and his
> > food/water dish full at all times, and some catnip every once in a while. Oh
> > and some rubber bands to play with(he loves them for some reason). But yeah,
> > the US does have quite a few problems when it comes to the medical care
> > system(for animals as well as people).
>
> no I didn't mean YOU personally (did i not put that?) i meant the US
> of A generally, just different attitudes to money and life
> people really complain about the nhs in this country but they don;t
> know how lucky they are really- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Um, well, on that last point, I agree with you. People here blather
about how AWFUL it would be if we had something like the NHS, but in
your country, people don't go bankrupt because of medical costs--and
the waits for treatment with your gov. bureaucracy do not seem to be
noticeably longer than with our for-profit bureaucracy.

Lis

cybercat
May 31st 07, 07:59 PM
"Lis" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On May 30, 9:14 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
>> your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
>> scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
>> (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
>> ways in which we look at our animasl for me
>
> Sweetie-pie, _some_ people have their cats declawed. It's
> controversial, most vets refuse to do it in most circumstances, humane
> societies and breeders generally include BOTH "must be an indoor cat
> only" and "must not be declawed" clauses in all adoption/purchase
> contracts.
>
> I have happy cats, that have all their claws, AND mostly undamaged
> furniture, because I've always provided appropriate scratching
> surfaces for my cats, and taught them where they are.
>
> As usual, when blathering on about the USA, you have no idea what
> you're talking about.
>
One of the reasons I have bookie killfiled.

Charlie Wilkes
May 31st 07, 08:03 PM
In article >, says...
>
> "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > In article >, says...
> >>
> >> "Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > On Mon, 28 May 2007 03:17:13 -0400, cybercat wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Take responsibility for your actions. Your cat fell out of the window,
> >> >> and you allowed her to go without veterinary treatment for 48 hours.
> >> >> Any complaints you have with your vet, if indeed you ever took the cat
> >> >> to a vet, are a separate issue.
> >> >
> >> > I think you're being too hard on her. If what she posted is accurate,
> >> > she may have erred in her judgment, but not because she lacks concern
> >> > or
> >> > commitment.
> >> >
> >> > My dog got killed because of my poor judgment, so I'm sensitive to the
> >> > distinction.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Charlie, if your dog were hurt you would have taken him for treatment.
> >>
> >> If he fell out the blinking window and had blood coming out of his
> >> nose, are you telling me you would not take him to a vet?
> >>
> >> I will never understand these sorry assholes who post that they have
> >> an injured or sick cat, and have not taken the animal to the vet. If it
> >> were a child, they would find a way. Or maybe they wouldn't. Poor
> >> cats.
> >
> > It wasn't a question of "finding a way." She took the animal to a vet
> > on Sunday, which is no easier or cheaper than doing so on Saturday. She
> > didn't mention the cost as being a problem. She merely showed poor
> > judgment, and she admitted as much in her first post. Here is what she
> > wrote:
> >
> > "I feel so guilty! I should have made sure the close the window
> > properly and brought her to the vet IMMEDIATELY after it happened."
> >
> > I don't see the point of attacking someone who acknowledges a mistake.
> >
> > Also, she didn't hold off on the vet for 48 hours... it was less than 24
> > hours.
> >
>
> You're a much kinder, gentler human being than I am, Charlie. Good for
> you.

Well, actually I can be a real asshole sometimes. Ask Melinda Shore,
with whom you skirmished a couple of weeks ago. I used to call her
"strap-on" in reference to her lesbianism. That is pretty neanderthal,
right? But Melinda is an old warhorse, posting from panix.com since the
1980s. Some of these google people don't have a clue as to what they're
getting themselves into, and I think it's good sportsmanship to give
them the benefit of the doubt.

Charlie

cybercat
May 31st 07, 08:19 PM
"Charlie Wilkes" > wrote
>> You're a much kinder, gentler human being than I am, Charlie. Good for
>> you.
>
> Well, actually I can be a real asshole sometimes. Ask Melinda Shore,
> with whom you skirmished a couple of weeks ago. I used to call her
> "strap-on" in reference to her lesbianism. That is pretty neanderthal,
> right? But Melinda is an old warhorse, posting from panix.com since the
> 1980s. Some of these google people don't have a clue as to what they're
> getting themselves into, and I think it's good sportsmanship to give
> them the benefit of the doubt.
>

So you're also a better sport than I am. :)

I guess bottom line is, I do not forgive bad judgment when it involves
something like not getting an animal vet attention first thing when it
falls out of a window and has blood coming out of its nose.

I don't understand it, I don't forgive it, and I don't really care how
sorry the OP is. The reason the cat is alive is just chance and luck.

Her cat deserves a better shot than that.

Lynne
May 31st 07, 09:07 PM
on Thu, 31 May 2007 18:59:19 GMT, "cybercat" > wrote:

> One of the reasons I have bookie killfiled.

who?

Hehe.

--
Lynne

Lynne
May 31st 07, 09:08 PM
on Thu, 31 May 2007 18:38:28 GMT, Lis > wrote:

> the waits for treatment with your gov. bureaucracy do not seem to be
> noticeably longer than with our for-profit bureaucracy.

it depends on the treatment, and who you ask.

--
Lynne

bookie
May 31st 07, 11:30 PM
On 31 May, 21:08, Lynne > wrote:
> on Thu, 31 May 2007 18:38:28 GMT, Lis > wrote:
>
> > the waits for treatment with your gov. bureaucracy do not seem to be
> > noticeably longer than with our for-profit bureaucracy.
>
> it depends on the treatment, and who you ask.
>
> --
> Lynne

i think it also kind of depends no which health authority you are with
and where you live inthe country, also what exactly it is you are
suffering from.
for example my aunt had retinal cancer last summer (cancer of the
eyeball basically) and it was only caught when she went for an eye
test for some glasses. anyway, this particualr type of cancer is very
rare, something like 3 people in this country had it last year to that
extent she did, and so she was in hospital the very next week to have
her eyeball removed at the moorfields specialist eye hospital in east
london, no mucking around there.

i think the speed of treatment was because 9a) the cancer was very
likely to spread quickly if the eye was not removed asap and that
woudl probably then cpst the nhs more if they didn;t act straightaway
(b) it is a rare type of cancer so no long waiting lists and (c)
possibly also where she lives, maidenhead, where perhaps the health
authority have more money, or rather the people are fairly wealthy so
more go private and leave more space for nhs patients. Anyway i don't
really know, this is all supposition on my part.

anyway , she also got a really nice glass eye too, free on the nhs.

bookie

bookie
May 31st 07, 11:32 PM
On 31 May, 19:35, Lis > wrote:
> On May 30, 9:14 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> > ways in which we look at our animasl for me
>
> Sweetie-pie, _some_ people have their cats declawed. It's
> controversial, most vets refuse to do it in most circumstances, humane
> societies and breeders generally include BOTH "must be an indoor cat
> only" and "must not be declawed" clauses in all adoption/purchase
> contracts.
>
> I have happy cats, that have all their claws, AND mostly undamaged
> furniture, because I've always provided appropriate scratching
> surfaces for my cats, and taught them where they are.
>
> As usual, when blathering on about the USA, you have no idea what
> you're talking about.
>
> Lis

i said 'some' people, i didn't mean all.

so i have no idea what I am talking about eh? so you are sayign that
when i state that some people in the US have their cats declawed that
I am wrong ? are you sayign that noone in the states gets their cat
declawed?

bookie
May 31st 07, 11:36 PM
On 31 May, 19:59, "cybercat" > wrote:
> "Lis" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
> > On May 30, 9:14 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> > <snip>
>
> >> anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> >> your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> >> scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> >> (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> >> ways in which we look at our animasl for me
>
> > Sweetie-pie, _some_ people have their cats declawed. It's
> > controversial, most vets refuse to do it in most circumstances, humane
> > societies and breeders generally include BOTH "must be an indoor cat
> > only" and "must not be declawed" clauses in all adoption/purchase
> > contracts.
>
> > I have happy cats, that have all their claws, AND mostly undamaged
> > furniture, because I've always provided appropriate scratching
> > surfaces for my cats, and taught them where they are.
>
> > As usual, when blathering on about the USA, you have no idea what
> > you're talking about.
>
> One of the reasons I have bookie killfiled.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

i arrived!!!!! i have been killfiled!!!!!! fantastic!!!!! oscar wilde
said that the only thing worse than being laughed at was to be
ignored, and at least I am not ignored if someone is actually going to
the lengths of killfiling me.
you have no idea how much that amuses me that I irk someone so much
that they go to such trouble, ha ha ha! i truly think that to be
universally liked would be a curse, emans you are dull and samey and
forgettable, but at least I have riled someone so much with what i say
that they do this and they won;t forget me.

oh dear lord, you do not know how much that has made my day, very
funny, i am so pleased that you do not consider me to be on your
wavelength and that you have killfiled me, especially considering how
boring and pre-menstrual you yourself have become lately. Just
marvellous!

Matthew
June 1st 07, 12:02 AM
"bookie" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On 31 May, 19:59, "cybercat" > wrote:
>> "Lis" > wrote in message
>>
>> ups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On May 30, 9:14 pm, bookie > wrote:
>>
>> > <snip>
>>
>> >> anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
>> >> your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
>> >> scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
>> >> (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
>> >> ways in which we look at our animasl for me
>>
>> > Sweetie-pie, _some_ people have their cats declawed. It's
>> > controversial, most vets refuse to do it in most circumstances, humane
>> > societies and breeders generally include BOTH "must be an indoor cat
>> > only" and "must not be declawed" clauses in all adoption/purchase
>> > contracts.
>>
>> > I have happy cats, that have all their claws, AND mostly undamaged
>> > furniture, because I've always provided appropriate scratching
>> > surfaces for my cats, and taught them where they are.
>>
>> > As usual, when blathering on about the USA, you have no idea what
>> > you're talking about.
>>
>> One of the reasons I have bookie killfiled.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> i arrived!!!!! i have been killfiled!!!!!! fantastic!!!!! oscar wilde
> said that the only thing worse than being laughed at was to be
> ignored, and at least I am not ignored if someone is actually going to
> the lengths of killfiling me.
> you have no idea how much that amuses me that I irk someone so much
> that they go to such trouble, ha ha ha! i truly think that to be
> universally liked would be a curse, emans you are dull and samey and
> forgettable, but at least I have riled someone so much with what i say
> that they do this and they won;t forget me.
>
> oh dear lord, you do not know how much that has made my day, very
> funny, i am so pleased that you do not consider me to be on your
> wavelength and that you have killfiled me, especially considering how
> boring and pre-menstrual you yourself have become lately. Just
> marvellous!
>

How does it feel bookie ;-) You are stepping up in the world

I am not going to snip your response I really interested in the response.
Can you tell I am bored ;-)

cybercat
June 1st 07, 12:13 AM
"Matthew" > wrote
> How does it feel bookie ;-) You are stepping up in the world
>
> I am not going to snip your response I really interested in the response.
> Can you tell I am bored ;-)
>

You may be, but you cannot force me to read bookie. :)

sheelagh
June 1st 07, 01:39 AM
> i arrived!!!!! i have been killfiled!!!!!! fantastic!!!!! oscar wilde
> said that the only thing worse than being laughed at was to be
> ignored, and at least I am not ignored if someone is actually going to
> the lengths of killfiling me.
> you have no idea how much that amuses me that I irk someone so much
> that they go to such trouble, ha ha ha! i truly think that to be
> universally liked would be a curse, emans you are dull and samey and
> forgettable, but at least I have riled someone so much with what i say
> that they do this and they won;t forget me.
>
> oh dear lord, you do not know how much that has made my day, very
> funny, i am so pleased that you do not consider me to be on your
> wavelength and that you have killfiled me, especially considering how
> boring and pre-menstrual you yourself have become lately. Just
> marvellous!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

If It helps, you are not alone. I'm killfiled too....

Lol...
Only difference is that I was told by someone else.
S;o)

sheelagh
June 1st 07, 01:46 AM
On 31 May, 23:36, bookie > wrote:
> On 31 May, 19:59, "cybercat" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Lis" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > > On May 30, 9:14 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> > > <snip>
>
> > >> anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> > >> your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> > >> scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> > >> (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> > >> ways in which we look at our animasl for me
>
> > > Sweetie-pie, _some_ people have their cats declawed. It's
> > > controversial, most vets refuse to do it in most circumstances, humane
> > > societies and breeders generally include BOTH "must be an indoor cat
> > > only" and "must not be declawed" clauses in all adoption/purchase
> > > contracts.
>
> > > I have happy cats, that have all their claws, AND mostly undamaged
> > > furniture, because I've always provided appropriate scratching
> > > surfaces for my cats, and taught them where they are.
>
> > > As usual, when blathering on about the USA, you have no idea what
> > > you're talking about.
>
> > One of the reasons I have bookie killfiled.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> i arrived!!!!! i have been killfiled!!!!!! fantastic!!!!! oscar wilde
> said that the only thing worse than being laughed at was to be
> ignored, and at least I am not ignored if someone is actually going to
> the lengths of killfiling me.
> you have no idea how much that amuses me that I irk someone so much
> that they go to such trouble, ha ha ha! i truly think that to be
> universally liked would be a curse, emans you are dull and samey and
> forgettable, but at least I have riled someone so much with what i say
> that they do this and they won;t forget me.
>
> oh dear lord, you do not know how much that has made my day, very
> funny, i am so pleased that you do not consider me to be on your
> wavelength and that you have killfiled me, especially considering how
> boring and pre-menstrual you yourself have become lately. Just
> marvellous!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

If It helps, you are not alone, Lol..
So am I.
The only difference is that someone else told me so....
S;o)

sheelagh
June 1st 07, 01:50 AM
On 1 Jun, 00:02, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 31 May, 19:59, "cybercat" > wrote:
> >> "Lis" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> >> > On May 30, 9:14 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> >> > <snip>
>
> >> >> anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> >> >> your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> >> >> scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> >> >> (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> >> >> ways in which we look at our animasl for me
>
> >> > Sweetie-pie, _some_ people have their cats declawed. It's
> >> > controversial, most vets refuse to do it in most circumstances, humane
> >> > societies and breeders generally include BOTH "must be an indoor cat
> >> > only" and "must not be declawed" clauses in all adoption/purchase
> >> > contracts.
>
> >> > I have happy cats, that have all their claws, AND mostly undamaged
> >> > furniture, because I've always provided appropriate scratching
> >> > surfaces for my cats, and taught them where they are.
>
> >> > As usual, when blathering on about the USA, you have no idea what
> >> > you're talking about.
>
> >> One of the reasons I have bookie killfiled.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > i arrived!!!!! i have been killfiled!!!!!! fantastic!!!!! oscar wilde
> > said that the only thing worse than being laughed at was to be
> > ignored, and at least I am not ignored if someone is actually going to
> > the lengths of killfiling me.
> > you have no idea how much that amuses me that I irk someone so much
> > that they go to such trouble, ha ha ha! i truly think that to be
> > universally liked would be a curse, emans you are dull and samey and
> > forgettable, but at least I have riled someone so much with what i say
> > that they do this and they won;t forget me.
>
> > oh dear lord, you do not know how much that has made my day, very
> > funny, i am so pleased that you do not consider me to be on your
> > wavelength and that you have killfiled me, especially considering how
> > boring and pre-menstrual you yourself have become lately. Just
> > marvellous!
>
> How does it feel bookie ;-) You are stepping up in the world
>
> I am not going to snip your response I really interested in the response.
> Can you tell I am bored ;-)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Liberating...

Lilah Morgan
June 1st 07, 01:52 AM
"bookie" > wrote in message
oups.com...

> so i have no idea what I am talking about eh? so you are sayign that
> when i state that some people in the US have their cats declawed that
> I am wrong ? are you sayign that noone in the states gets their cat
> declawed?

You didn't say 'some' though, this was what you said:

"anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
(and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
ways in which we look at our animasl for me"

Charlie Wilkes
June 1st 07, 03:23 AM
In article . com>,
says...

>
> so i have no idea what I am talking about eh? so you are sayign that
> when i state that some people in the US have their cats declawed that
> I am wrong ? are you sayign that noone in the states gets their cat
> declawed?
>
My cat is slowly destroying my green leather barca loungers, which cost
about $800 apiece... the most expensive furniture I own.

I may declaw him myself, with angle cutters.

Charlie

Charlie Wilkes
June 1st 07, 03:27 AM
In article >, says...
>
> "Matthew" > wrote
> > How does it feel bookie ;-) You are stepping up in the world
> >
> > I am not going to snip your response I really interested in the response.
> > Can you tell I am bored ;-)
> >
>
> You may be, but you cannot force me to read bookie. :)
>
>
>
Killfiling Bookie & Sheelagh means passing up a lot of opportunities to
stir the ****.

Charlie

Matthew
June 1st 07, 03:39 AM
"Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
. ..
> In article >, says...
>>
>> "Matthew" > wrote
>> > How does it feel bookie ;-) You are stepping up in the world
>> >
>> > I am not going to snip your response I really interested in the
>> > response.
>> > Can you tell I am bored ;-)
>> >
>>
>> You may be, but you cannot force me to read bookie. :)
>>
>>
>>
> Killfiling Bookie & Sheelagh means passing up a lot of opportunities to
> stir the ****.
>
> Charlie

He he he he I like your thinking Charlie

Lynne
June 1st 07, 04:06 AM
on Fri, 01 Jun 2007 02:23:03 GMT, Charlie Wilkes
> wrote:

> My cat is slowly destroying my green leather barca loungers, which cost
> about $800 apiece... the most expensive furniture I own.
>
> I may declaw him myself, with angle cutters.

you'll post photos, right?

--
Lynne

cybercat
June 1st 07, 05:28 AM
"Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
. ..
> In article >, says...
>>
>> "Matthew" > wrote
>> > How does it feel bookie ;-) You are stepping up in the world
>> >
>> > I am not going to snip your response I really interested in the
>> > response.
>> > Can you tell I am bored ;-)
>> >
>>
>> You may be, but you cannot force me to read bookie. :)
>>
>>
>>
> Killfiling Bookie & Sheelagh means passing up a lot of opportunities to
> stir the ****.
>
>

:) Good point, Charlie.

The_Spirit_Of_Truth_beeyotches_better_recognize_I_come_in_the_name_of_jeebus_by_the_power_of_the_hol
June 1st 07, 05:42 AM
On May 31, 10:27 pm, Charlie Wilkes
> wrote:
> In article >, says...
>
> > "Matthew" > wrote
> > > How does it feel bookie ;-) You are stepping up in the world
>
> > > I am not going to snip your response I really interested in the response.
> > > Can you tell I am bored ;-)
>
> > You may be, but you cannot force me to read bookie. :)
>
> Killfiling Bookie & Sheelagh means passing up a lot of opportunities to
> stir the ****.
>
> Charlie

Plus, you lose a fascinating glimpse into the British education
system....

Lilah Morgan
June 1st 07, 06:13 AM
"Lis" > wrote in message
oups.com...

> Um, well, on that last point, I agree with you. People here blather
> about how AWFUL it would be if we had something like the NHS, but in
> your country, people don't go bankrupt because of medical costs--and
> the waits for treatment with your gov. bureaucracy do not seem to be
> noticeably longer than with our for-profit bureaucracy.
>
> Lis


I've always found it sad that people will get all riled about stupid ****
here(like Janet Jackson's wardrobe problem during the SuperBowl for
instance), yet no one really seems to care that it's not considered morally
wrong to have to pay for medical care. I'm sure there are quite a few in the
medical profession who genuinely DON'T care about money and just want to
make people(and animals) better, but you get stupid people suing left and
right for no reason at all or just refusing to pay period, plus all the laws
and such about what doctors are allowed to do and not do in terms of
care(which some are a result of unwarranted lawsuits), and you get a few
morons spoiling it for everyone else. If only stupidity were a crime...and
it's not just in the field of medicine that get ruined by lawsuits here in
the States. I thought the lady who sued McDonald's for getting her fat was
bad, but my mom heard about this one gal who was driving down the road in
her RV, and she had to go to the bathroom, so she puts the RV in cruise
control, LEAVES THE WHEEL, and gets up to go to the bathroom. Of course the
RV crashes. She's not seriously hurt, but she sues the RV manufacturer
because they didn't say in the manual you can't leave the wheel unattended
when it's in cruise control. If that's not bad enough, she WON the lawsuit.
I think she should have been locked up for being so stupid in the first
place, or just paraded around with a sandwich board detailing how much she's
lacking any intelligence. Whatever happened to a little thing called common
sense?! Anyways, back to the original topic, I don't see why it would be so
horrible to have a national health care system...I would gladly pay a little
extra in taxes if I knew it meant I could afford to see a doctor if I needed
to. Same goes with having some kind of similar system for pets. Especially
since it's vet time for the pets next month again. Well depending on what
time zone you're in, it might already be next month.

Lilah Morgan
June 1st 07, 06:50 AM
Dammit accidentally hit send before I added that if there is another post
where you did say some(for some reason sometimes posts don't show up.
Usually mine, but they show the replies to it), then I apologize.

"Lilah Morgan" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> "bookie" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
> > so i have no idea what I am talking about eh? so you are sayign that
> > when i state that some people in the US have their cats declawed that
> > I am wrong ? are you sayign that noone in the states gets their cat
> > declawed?
>
> You didn't say 'some' though, this was what you said:
>
> "anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> ways in which we look at our animasl for me"
>
>

Charlie Wilkes
June 1st 07, 07:06 AM
In article 2>,
says...
> on Fri, 01 Jun 2007 02:23:03 GMT, Charlie Wilkes
> > wrote:
>
> > My cat is slowly destroying my green leather barca loungers, which cost
> > about $800 apiece... the most expensive furniture I own.
> >
> > I may declaw him myself, with angle cutters.
>
> you'll post photos, right?
>
>
Sure. I actually have some experience in this area. A few years ago, I
found myself nursing a rooster who had a terrible infection on his legs
and feet. Scaly leg mites, it turned out to be. One of his toes was
beyond saving, and it was curled around under the ball of his foot,
causing him great pain every time he tried to put pressure on that foot.
It was mostly bone with a thin covering of skin, so I lopped it off with
a pair of angle cutters, and I posted a photo of the severed digit lying
next to the cutters.

It didn't seem to bother the bird at all, and it hardly bled, but I
caught hell from a couple of people in sci.ag.poultry for not using an
anesthetic. But I have run this by a couple of vets, and they both said
that injecting the anesthetic would have caused more stress and
discomfort than a quick, decisive amputation.

As for Tweaker, my cat... I suppose I'd have to give him a shot of
whisky at least. Another option would be to fit him out with a shock
collar and zap him whenever he claws the barca lounger.

BUT, I do think I have discouraged this behavior somewhat by simply
clapping my hands and crying "NO!" when I see him do it. Also, the
polished leather is not his favorite type of scratching material. He
prefers the canvas on my futon-factory sofa, and that is a good piece of
furniture for him to slowly destroy.

Charlie

look at us we're beautiful
June 1st 07, 12:09 PM
On Jun 1, 2:06 am, Charlie Wilkes >
wrote:

> It didn't seem to bother the bird at all, and it hardly bled, but I
> caught hell from a couple of people in sci.ag.poultry for not using an
> anesthetic.
> Charlie


I see, the toe was dead and had no feeling (specially with no blood)
like cutting a callous off the foot.

I am sure if you had cut him too deep he would have pecked your eyes

Lis
June 1st 07, 03:54 PM
On May 31, 6:32 pm, bookie > wrote:
> On 31 May, 19:35, Lis > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 30, 9:14 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> > <snip>
>
> > > anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> > > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> > > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> > > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> > > ways in which we look at our animasl for me
>
> > Sweetie-pie, _some_ people have their cats declawed. It's
> > controversial, most vets refuse to do it in most circumstances, humane
> > societies and breeders generally include BOTH "must be an indoor cat
> > only" and "must not be declawed" clauses in all adoption/purchase
> > contracts.
>
> > I have happy cats, that have all their claws, AND mostly undamaged
> > furniture, because I've always provided appropriate scratching
> > surfaces for my cats, and taught them where they are.
>
> > As usual, when blathering on about the USA, you have no idea what
> > you're talking about.
>
> > Lis
>
> i said 'some' people, i didn't mean all.
>
> so i have no idea what I am talking about eh? so you are sayign that
> when i state that some people in the US have their cats declawed that
> I am wrong ? are you sayign that noone in the states gets their cat
> declawed?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No, Bookie, you didn't say "some." You said:

"anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
(and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
ways in which we look at our animasl for me"

You presented Americans as callous, furniture-obsessed monsters who
all declaw our cats, in contrast to those decent human beings, the
Brits, who would rather have their furniture wrecked. And you implied
that all our cats are unhappy, too.

You have wrecked furniture. I have intact furniture, AND happy cats,
because I've provided appropriate, attractive-to-them places for them
to climb and scratch and hide. Also toys for them to play with;
they're not bored out of their minds with nothing better for them to
do than wreck my furniture. I bet Sheelagh doesn't have wrecked
furniture, either.

Lis

sheelagh
June 1st 07, 05:03 PM
On 1 Jun, 03:27, Charlie Wilkes >
wrote:
> In article >, says...
>
> > "Matthew" > wrote
> > > How does it feel bookie ;-) You are stepping up in the world
>
> > > I am not going to snip your response I really interested in the response.
> > > Can you tell I am bored ;-)
>
> > You may be, but you cannot force me to read bookie. :)
>
> Killfiling Bookie & Sheelagh means passing up a lot of opportunities to
> stir the ****.
>
> Charlie

He He He, that works both ways of course though, doesn't it Charlie?

Far be it from me to mince my words.....

I only ever **** stir on well ****ed off mode
Well worth knowing mind you!
S;o)

bookie
June 1st 07, 06:55 PM
On 1 Jun, 06:50, "Lilah Morgan" > wrote:
> Dammit accidentally hit send before I added that if there is another post
> where you did say some(for some reason sometimes posts don't show up.
> Usually mine, but they show the replies to it), then I apologize.
>
> "Lilah Morgan" > wrote in message
>
> hlink.net...
>
>
>
> > "bookie" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
> > > so i have no idea what I am talking about eh? so you are sayign that
> > > when i state that some people in the US have their cats declawed that
> > > I am wrong ? are you sayign that noone in the states gets their cat
> > > declawed?
>
> > You didn't say 'some' though, this was what you said:
>
> > "anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> > ways in which we look at our animasl for me"- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

when i put 'you' i meant 'you the country' not 'you personally' I am
not daft enough to say that you the indivdiual has declawed their cat
cos I dontl knwo whether you have or not, i cannot remember whether
certain individuals have or not, i dontl take that much notice
bookie

bookie
June 1st 07, 06:57 PM
On 1 Jun, 07:06, Charlie Wilkes >
wrote:
> In article 2>,
> says...> on Fri, 01 Jun 2007 02:23:03 GMT, Charlie Wilkes
> > > wrote:
>
> > > My cat is slowly destroying my green leather barca loungers, which cost
> > > about $800 apiece... the most expensive furniture I own.
>
> > > I may declaw him myself, with angle cutters.
>
> > you'll post photos, right?
>
> Sure. I actually have some experience in this area. A few years ago, I
> found myself nursing a rooster who had a terrible infection on his legs
> and feet. Scaly leg mites, it turned out to be. One of his toes was
> beyond saving, and it was curled around under the ball of his foot,
> causing him great pain every time he tried to put pressure on that foot.
> It was mostly bone with a thin covering of skin, so I lopped it off with
> a pair of angle cutters, and I posted a photo of the severed digit lying
> next to the cutters.
>
> It didn't seem to bother the bird at all, and it hardly bled, but I
> caught hell from a couple of people in sci.ag.poultry for not using an
> anesthetic. But I have run this by a couple of vets, and they both said
> that injecting the anesthetic would have caused more stress and
> discomfort than a quick, decisive amputation.
>
> As for Tweaker, my cat... I suppose I'd have to give him a shot of
> whisky at least. Another option would be to fit him out with a shock
> collar and zap him whenever he claws the barca lounger.
>
> BUT, I do think I have discouraged this behavior somewhat by simply
> clapping my hands and crying "NO!" when I see him do it. Also, the
> polished leather is not his favorite type of scratching material. He
> prefers the canvas on my futon-factory sofa, and that is a good piece of
> furniture for him to slowly destroy.
>
> Charlie

you could always practise on yourself first to maek sure you get it
right, you don't want damage your tools on the cat do you?

bookie
June 1st 07, 07:03 PM
On 1 Jun, 15:54, Lis > wrote:
> On May 31, 6:32 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 31 May, 19:35, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > On May 30, 9:14 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> > > <snip>
>
> > > > anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> > > > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> > > > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> > > > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> > > > ways in which we look at our animasl for me
>
> > > Sweetie-pie, _some_ people have their cats declawed. It's
> > > controversial, most vets refuse to do it in most circumstances, humane
> > > societies and breeders generally include BOTH "must be an indoor cat
> > > only" and "must not be declawed" clauses in all adoption/purchase
> > > contracts.
>
> > > I have happy cats, that have all their claws, AND mostly undamaged
> > > furniture, because I've always provided appropriate scratching
> > > surfaces for my cats, and taught them where they are.
>
> > > As usual, when blathering on about the USA, you have no idea what
> > > you're talking about.
>
> > > Lis
>
> > i said 'some' people, i didn't mean all.
>
> > so i have no idea what I am talking about eh? so you are sayign that
> > when i state that some people in the US have their cats declawed that
> > I am wrong ? are you sayign that noone in the states gets their cat
> > declawed?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> No, Bookie, you didn't say "some." You said:
>
> "anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> ways in which we look at our animasl for me"
>
> You presented Americans as callous, furniture-obsessed monsters who
> all declaw our cats, in contrast to those decent human beings, the
> Brits, who would rather have their furniture wrecked. And you implied
> that all our cats are unhappy, too.
>
> You have wrecked furniture. I have intact furniture, AND happy cats,
> because I've provided appropriate, attractive-to-them places for them
> to climb and scratch and hide. Also toys for them to play with;
> they're not bored out of their minds with nothing better for them to
> do than wreck my furniture. I bet Sheelagh doesn't have wrecked
> furniture, either.
>
> Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

and you have just implied that all my furniture is wrecked and I am
not providing my cats with adequate means to sharpen their claws on or
climb and hide and suchlike, and that they are both bored out of their
minds and so wreck my furniture.

considering that with our animal welfare law now you are pretty much
accusing me of breaking the law and of being a criminal, I would be
careful what you say now as it could well amount to defamation of
character. Especially as what you may be implying about me personally
is not true (but why let that small detail stop you)

sure you want to go down that route?

June 2nd 07, 12:05 AM
On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 05:13:44 GMT, "Lilah Morgan"
> wrote:

>I thought the lady who sued McDonald's for getting her fat was
>bad, but my mom heard about this one gal who was driving down the road in
>her RV, and she had to go to the bathroom, so she puts the RV in cruise
>control, LEAVES THE WHEEL, and gets up to go to the bathroom. Of course the
>RV crashes. She's not seriously hurt, but she sues the RV manufacturer
>because they didn't say in the manual you can't leave the wheel unattended
>when it's in cruise control. If that's not bad enough, she WON the lawsuit.


Snopes!

http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/cruise.asp

There are many version of that story to be found. :)

bookie
June 2nd 07, 12:23 AM
On 2 Jun, 00:05, wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 05:13:44 GMT, "Lilah Morgan"
>
> > wrote:
> >I thought the lady who sued McDonald's for getting her fat was
> >bad, but my mom heard about this one gal who was driving down the road in
> >her RV, and she had to go to the bathroom, so she puts the RV in cruise
> >control, LEAVES THE WHEEL, and gets up to go to the bathroom. Of course the
> >RV crashes. She's not seriously hurt, but she sues the RV manufacturer
> >because they didn't say in the manual you can't leave the wheel unattended
> >when it's in cruise control. If that's not bad enough, she WON the lawsuit.
>
> Snopes!
>
> http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/cruise.asp
>
> There are many version of that story to be found. :)

i heard the one about the woman who bought a coffee from a McDonalds
drive-thru, wedged it in between her legs to hold it as she drove off,
and when she inevitably spilt it over her ample thighs she sued
McDonalds for persoanl injury or something because of the massive
scalding and burns to her legs and general 'lady area' she suffered as
a result of her own stupidity.

I think the lawyers claimed that she had no idea that the coffee was
going to be so hot or something incredibly stupid like that. If
someone tried that in this country it woudl be laughed out of court,
if it even got that fair in the first place, any judge woudl just tell
the silly old mare that she should not have been so damn stupid and
what she did was her own damn fault.

is it correct that you have the right to have any case heard in a
court of law inthe US? regardless of how outlandish it actually is?
something in your constitution or something, not sure about the
veracity of that statement.

sheelagh
June 2nd 07, 02:12 AM
On 1 Jun, 19:03, bookie > wrote:
> On 1 Jun, 15:54, Lis > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 31, 6:32 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> > > On 31 May, 19:35, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > > On May 30, 9:14 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> > > > <snip>
>
> > > > > anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> > > > > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> > > > > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> > > > > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> > > > > ways in which we look at our animasl for me
>
> > > > Sweetie-pie, _some_ people have their cats declawed. It's
> > > > controversial, most vets refuse to do it in most circumstances, humane
> > > > societies and breeders generally include BOTH "must be an indoor cat
> > > > only" and "must not be declawed" clauses in all adoption/purchase
> > > > contracts.
>
> > > > I have happy cats, that have all their claws, AND mostly undamaged
> > > > furniture, because I've always provided appropriate scratching
> > > > surfaces for my cats, and taught them where they are.
>
> > > > As usual, when blathering on about the USA, you have no idea what
> > > > you're talking about.
>
> > > > Lis
>
> > > i said 'some' people, i didn't mean all.
>
> > > so i have no idea what I am talking about eh? so you are sayign that
> > > when i state that some people in the US have their cats declawed that
> > > I am wrong ? are you sayign that noone in the states gets their cat
> > > declawed?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > No, Bookie, you didn't say "some." You said:
>
> > "anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> > ways in which we look at our animasl for me"
>
> > You presented Americans as callous, furniture-obsessed monsters who
> > all declaw our cats, in contrast to those decent human beings, the
> > Brits, who would rather have their furniture wrecked. And you implied
> > that all our cats are unhappy, too.
>
> > You have wrecked furniture. I have intact furniture, AND happy cats,
> > because I've provided appropriate, attractive-to-them places for them
> > to climb and scratch and hide. Also toys for them to play with;
> > they're not bored out of their minds with nothing better for them to
> > do than wreck my furniture. I bet Sheelagh doesn't have wrecked
> > furniture, either.
>
> > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> and you have just implied that all my furniture is wrecked and I am
> not providing my cats with adequate means to sharpen their claws on or
> climb and hide and suchlike, and that they are both bored out of their
> minds and so wreck my furniture.
>
> considering that with our animal welfare law now you are pretty much
> accusing me of breaking the law and of being a criminal, I would be
> careful what you say now as it could well amount to defamation of
> character. Especially as what you may be implying about me personally
> is not true (but why let that small detail stop you)
>
> sure you want to go down that route?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

This is all going a little bit toooo Far.

If you think I like the sound of my own voice-then you do. Who gives a
monkeys?

If the comment was intended to slight me, then it failed. I don't
feel the need to do the same to you right now......

Just for the record, I could do with a new 3 piece because the cats
have ravaged it in the side and on the arm too. I would love to say
that was the cats wouldn't damage it, but it is not true. They have
also scratched the hell out of my coffee table legs as well, but so
what, I can replace them, where I can't replace them.

To me, if you declaw your cat, it is cruel. I couldn't consider doing
it, & that is the end of the matter. I don't care if they are chinese,
Canadian or Brits, it is wrong-end of.

OTOH, I do actively discourage it where possible, & I get quite peeved
when they climb on the top in the kitchen;only one particular top, but
It's a no no here. My plate & their feet don't mix...marlbes & jars
work well here.....

I don't think for one moment Bookie"intended" to slight anyone here,
sometimes things just come across the wrong way, & I can see where it
did here. Lis, I "know" she certainly didn't intend to provoke you.(or
anyone else). It is out of hand, & we should know better than to
attack one another in here.

There are far more important things we could be talking about without
giving in to what is clearly exactly what the trolls want. We are
creating 7th heaven. how about we stop what we are doing & take a long
hard think about what "could" happen here. I'm done with name
calling.
I'd much rather hear Matthews house Rules over again.. they were
hilarious & I hope he shares them with us all. They were ever so good,
but more to the point, so true, that you had to laugh when you got
through them;o)
I think we can do better than this...don't you?

S;o)

Lis
June 2nd 07, 04:07 AM
On Jun 1, 2:03 pm, bookie > wrote:
> On 1 Jun, 15:54, Lis > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 31, 6:32 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> > > On 31 May, 19:35, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > > On May 30, 9:14 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> > > > <snip>
>
> > > > > anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> > > > > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> > > > > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> > > > > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> > > > > ways in which we look at our animasl for me
>
> > > > Sweetie-pie, _some_ people have their cats declawed. It's
> > > > controversial, most vets refuse to do it in most circumstances, humane
> > > > societies and breeders generally include BOTH "must be an indoor cat
> > > > only" and "must not be declawed" clauses in all adoption/purchase
> > > > contracts.
>
> > > > I have happy cats, that have all their claws, AND mostly undamaged
> > > > furniture, because I've always provided appropriate scratching
> > > > surfaces for my cats, and taught them where they are.
>
> > > > As usual, when blathering on about the USA, you have no idea what
> > > > you're talking about.
>
> > > > Lis
>
> > > i said 'some' people, i didn't mean all.
>
> > > so i have no idea what I am talking about eh? so you are sayign that
> > > when i state that some people in the US have their cats declawed that
> > > I am wrong ? are you sayign that noone in the states gets their cat
> > > declawed?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > No, Bookie, you didn't say "some." You said:
>
> > "anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> > ways in which we look at our animasl for me"
>
> > You presented Americans as callous, furniture-obsessed monsters who
> > all declaw our cats, in contrast to those decent human beings, the
> > Brits, who would rather have their furniture wrecked. And you implied
> > that all our cats are unhappy, too.
>
> > You have wrecked furniture. I have intact furniture, AND happy cats,
> > because I've provided appropriate, attractive-to-them places for them
> > to climb and scratch and hide. Also toys for them to play with;
> > they're not bored out of their minds with nothing better for them to
> > do than wreck my furniture. I bet Sheelagh doesn't have wrecked
> > furniture, either.
>
> > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> and you have just implied that all my furniture is wrecked and I am
> not providing my cats with adequate means to sharpen their claws on or
> climb and hide and suchlike, and that they are both bored out of their
> minds and so wreck my furniture.
>
> considering that with our animal welfare law now you are pretty much
> accusing me of breaking the law and of being a criminal, I would be
> careful what you say now as it could well amount to defamation of
> character. Especially as what you may be implying about me personally
> is not true (but why let that small detail stop you)
>
> sure you want to go down that route?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I was simply mirroring for you what you do concerning my country
pretty regularly, in the vain hope that you might recognize yourself
and rethink your sweeping defamations of an entire country. Waste of
pixels, obviously.

Lis

Lis
June 2nd 07, 04:27 AM
On Jun 1, 9:12 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
> On 1 Jun, 19:03, bookie > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 1 Jun, 15:54, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > On May 31, 6:32 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> > > > On 31 May, 19:35, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > > > On May 30, 9:14 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> > > > > <snip>
>
> > > > > > anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> > > > > > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> > > > > > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> > > > > > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> > > > > > ways in which we look at our animasl for me
>
> > > > > Sweetie-pie, _some_ people have their cats declawed. It's
> > > > > controversial, most vets refuse to do it in most circumstances, humane
> > > > > societies and breeders generally include BOTH "must be an indoor cat
> > > > > only" and "must not be declawed" clauses in all adoption/purchase
> > > > > contracts.
>
> > > > > I have happy cats, that have all their claws, AND mostly undamaged
> > > > > furniture, because I've always provided appropriate scratching
> > > > > surfaces for my cats, and taught them where they are.
>
> > > > > As usual, when blathering on about the USA, you have no idea what
> > > > > you're talking about.
>
> > > > > Lis
>
> > > > i said 'some' people, i didn't mean all.
>
> > > > so i have no idea what I am talking about eh? so you are sayign that
> > > > when i state that some people in the US have their cats declawed that
> > > > I am wrong ? are you sayign that noone in the states gets their cat
> > > > declawed?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > No, Bookie, you didn't say "some." You said:
>
> > > "anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> > > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> > > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> > > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> > > ways in which we look at our animasl for me"
>
> > > You presented Americans as callous, furniture-obsessed monsters who
> > > all declaw our cats, in contrast to those decent human beings, the
> > > Brits, who would rather have their furniture wrecked. And you implied
> > > that all our cats are unhappy, too.
>
> > > You have wrecked furniture. I have intact furniture, AND happy cats,
> > > because I've provided appropriate, attractive-to-them places for them
> > > to climb and scratch and hide. Also toys for them to play with;
> > > they're not bored out of their minds with nothing better for them to
> > > do than wreck my furniture. I bet Sheelagh doesn't have wrecked
> > > furniture, either.
>
> > > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > and you have just implied that all my furniture is wrecked and I am
> > not providing my cats with adequate means to sharpen their claws on or
> > climb and hide and suchlike, and that they are both bored out of their
> > minds and so wreck my furniture.
>
> > considering that with our animal welfare law now you are pretty much
> > accusing me of breaking the law and of being a criminal, I would be
> > careful what you say now as it could well amount to defamation of
> > character. Especially as what you may be implying about me personally
> > is not true (but why let that small detail stop you)
>
> > sure you want to go down that route?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> This is all going a little bit toooo Far.
>
> If you think I like the sound of my own voice-then you do. Who gives a
> monkeys?
>
> If the comment was intended to slight me, then it failed. I don't
> feel the need to do the same to you right now......

Um, Sheelagh, no, my qualification in that statement was intended
specifically to make clear that I _wasn't_ including you; that I was
throwing Bookie repeated insults and defamations of my country back at
_her_, and not at every person who happens to be British, and
especially not at you--who doesn't engage in this sort of generalized,
taken-for-granted-as-fact defamation of my country.

> Just for the record, I could do with a new 3 piece because the cats
> have ravaged it in the side and on the arm too. I would love to say
> that was the cats wouldn't damage it, but it is not true. They have
> also scratched the hell out of my coffee table legs as well, but so
> what, I can replace them, where I can't replace them.
>
> To me, if you declaw your cat, it is cruel. I couldn't consider doing
> it, & that is the end of the matter. I don't care if they are chinese,
> Canadian or Brits, it is wrong-end of.

Bookie may have confused the issue by now, but no, my cats are not
declawed. And no, I do not approve of declawing. And despite some
confusion that apparently exists on the subject in the UK, declawing,
while legal in most of the US, is also widely disapproved of, strongly
discouraged by humane societies, breeders, and veterinarians. And, in
fifty years of life, I've personally known only two people who have
ever had cats declawed--one cat each, and in those cases, it wasn't to
protect the furniture. I didn't agree with the decision in either
case, but it wasn't furniture they were trying to protect.

> OTOH, I do actively discourage it where possible, & I get quite peeved
> when they climb on the top in the kitchen;only one particular top, but
> It's a no no here. My plate & their feet don't mix...marlbes & jars
> work well here.....
>
> I don't think for one moment Bookie"intended" to slight anyone here,
> sometimes things just come across the wrong way, & I can see where it
> did here. Lis, I "know" she certainly didn't intend to provoke you.(or
> anyone else). It is out of hand, & we should know better than to
> attack one another in here.

Sheelagh, I'm sorry, but I have to judge Bookie by what she actually
says--especially when she does it over and over again. I'm sure she
didn't intend to "provoke" anyone; I think she takes it for grranted
that her amazingly insulting views of Americans are uncontroversial
fact, and is always surprised (but not daunted in her certainty) when
she's challenged on it or any of her "facts" are disputed.

> There are far more important things we could be talking about without
> giving in to what is clearly exactly what the trolls want. We are
> creating 7th heaven. how about we stop what we are doing & take a long
> hard think about what "could" happen here. I'm done with name
> calling.
> I'd much rather hear Matthews house Rules over again.. they were
> hilarious & I hope he shares them with us all. They were ever so good,
> but more to the point, so true, that you had to laugh when you got
> through them;o)

If Matthew will post them, I'll be happy to read them and laugh.

> I think we can do better than this...don't you?

Hey, a lot of the time we do. But do you think you might consider
directing some of this lecture to _Bookie_, and assigning some of the
responsibility to her habitual demeaning and insulting of another
country?

Lis

bookie
June 3rd 07, 12:11 AM
On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
> On Jun 1, 9:12 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 1 Jun, 19:03, bookie > wrote:
>
> > > On 1 Jun, 15:54, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > > On May 31, 6:32 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> > > > > On 31 May, 19:35, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On May 30, 9:14 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> > > > > > <snip>
>
> > > > > > > anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> > > > > > > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> > > > > > > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> > > > > > > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> > > > > > > ways in which we look at our animasl for me
>
> > > > > > Sweetie-pie, _some_ people have their cats declawed. It's
> > > > > > controversial, most vets refuse to do it in most circumstances, humane
> > > > > > societies and breeders generally include BOTH "must be an indoor cat
> > > > > > only" and "must not be declawed" clauses in all adoption/purchase
> > > > > > contracts.
>
> > > > > > I have happy cats, that have all their claws, AND mostly undamaged
> > > > > > furniture, because I've always provided appropriate scratching
> > > > > > surfaces for my cats, and taught them where they are.
>
> > > > > > As usual, when blathering on about the USA, you have no idea what
> > > > > > you're talking about.
>
> > > > > > Lis
>
> > > > > i said 'some' people, i didn't mean all.
>
> > > > > so i have no idea what I am talking about eh? so you are sayign that
> > > > > when i state that some people in the US have their cats declawed that
> > > > > I am wrong ? are you sayign that noone in the states gets their cat
> > > > > declawed?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > No, Bookie, you didn't say "some." You said:
>
> > > > "anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> > > > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> > > > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> > > > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> > > > ways in which we look at our animasl for me"
>
> > > > You presented Americans as callous, furniture-obsessed monsters who
> > > > all declaw our cats, in contrast to those decent human beings, the
> > > > Brits, who would rather have their furniture wrecked. And you implied
> > > > that all our cats are unhappy, too.
>
> > > > You have wrecked furniture. I have intact furniture, AND happy cats,
> > > > because I've provided appropriate, attractive-to-them places for them
> > > > to climb and scratch and hide. Also toys for them to play with;
> > > > they're not bored out of their minds with nothing better for them to
> > > > do than wreck my furniture. I bet Sheelagh doesn't have wrecked
> > > > furniture, either.
>
> > > > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > and you have just implied that all my furniture is wrecked and I am
> > > not providing my cats with adequate means to sharpen their claws on or
> > > climb and hide and suchlike, and that they are both bored out of their
> > > minds and so wreck my furniture.
>
> > > considering that with our animal welfare law now you are pretty much
> > > accusing me of breaking the law and of being a criminal, I would be
> > > careful what you say now as it could well amount to defamation of
> > > character. Especially as what you may be implying about me personally
> > > is not true (but why let that small detail stop you)
>
> > > sure you want to go down that route?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > This is all going a little bit toooo Far.
>
> > If you think I like the sound of my own voice-then you do. Who gives a
> > monkeys?
>
> > If the comment was intended to slight me, then it failed. I don't
> > feel the need to do the same to you right now......
>
> Um, Sheelagh, no, my qualification in that statement was intended
> specifically to make clear that I _wasn't_ including you; that I was
> throwing Bookie repeated insults and defamations of my country back at
> _her_, and not at every person who happens to be British, and
> especially not at you--who doesn't engage in this sort of generalized,
> taken-for-granted-as-fact defamation of my country.
>
> > Just for the record, I could do with a new 3 piece because the cats
> > have ravaged it in the side and on the arm too. I would love to say
> > that was the cats wouldn't damage it, but it is not true. They have
> > also scratched the hell out of my coffee table legs as well, but so
> > what, I can replace them, where I can't replace them.
>
> > To me, if you declaw your cat, it is cruel. I couldn't consider doing
> > it, & that is the end of the matter. I don't care if they are chinese,
> > Canadian or Brits, it is wrong-end of.
>
> Bookie may have confused the issue by now, but no, my cats are not
> declawed. And no, I do not approve of declawing. And despite some
> confusion that apparently exists on the subject in the UK, declawing,
> while legal in most of the US, is also widely disapproved of, strongly
> discouraged by humane societies, breeders, and veterinarians. And, in
> fifty years of life, I've personally known only two people who have
> ever had cats declawed--one cat each, and in those cases, it wasn't to
> protect the furniture. I didn't agree with the decision in either
> case, but it wasn't furniture they were trying to protect.
>
> > OTOH, I do actively discourage it where possible, & I get quite peeved
> > when they climb on the top in the kitchen;only one particular top, but
> > It's a no no here. My plate & their feet don't mix...marlbes & jars
> > work well here.....
>
> > I don't think for one moment Bookie"intended" to slight anyone here,
> > sometimes things just come across the wrong way, & I can see where it
> > did here. Lis, I "know" she certainly didn't intend to provoke you.(or
> > anyone else). It is out of hand, & we should know better than to
> > attack one another in here.
>
> Sheelagh, I'm sorry, but I have to judge Bookie by what she actually
> says--especially when she does it over and over again. I'm sure she
> didn't intend to "provoke" anyone; I think she takes it for grranted
> that her amazingly insulting views of Americans are uncontroversial
> fact, and is always surprised (but not daunted in her certainty) when
> she's challenged on it or any of her "facts" are disputed.
>
> > There are far more important things we could be talking about without
> > giving in to what is clearly exactly what the trolls want. We are
> > creating 7th heaven. how about we stop what we are doing & take a long
> > hard think about what "could" happen here. I'm done with name
> > calling.
> > I'd much rather hear Matthews house Rules over again.. they were
> > hilarious & I hope he shares them with us all. They were ever so good,
> > but more to the point, so true, that you had to laugh when you got
> > through them;o)
>
> If Matthew will post them, I'll be happy to read them and laugh.
>
> > I think we can do better than this...don't you?
>
> Hey, a lot of the time we do. But do you think you might consider
> directing some of this lecture to _Bookie_, and assigning some of the
> responsibility to her habitual demeaning and insulting of another
> country?
>
> Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the world
think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant warmongerers?
were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at you all
and think you're all morons? ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a bit of a dig
at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society as far
from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.

anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to be not
even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you expect when
you reply to people in the tones you have been above

dear oh dear oh dear

bookie
June 3rd 07, 12:15 AM
On 2 Jun, 04:07, Lis > wrote:
> On Jun 1, 2:03 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 1 Jun, 15:54, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > On May 31, 6:32 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> > > > On 31 May, 19:35, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > > > On May 30, 9:14 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> > > > > <snip>
>
> > > > > > anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> > > > > > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> > > > > > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> > > > > > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> > > > > > ways in which we look at our animasl for me
>
> > > > > Sweetie-pie, _some_ people have their cats declawed. It's
> > > > > controversial, most vets refuse to do it in most circumstances, humane
> > > > > societies and breeders generally include BOTH "must be an indoor cat
> > > > > only" and "must not be declawed" clauses in all adoption/purchase
> > > > > contracts.
>
> > > > > I have happy cats, that have all their claws, AND mostly undamaged
> > > > > furniture, because I've always provided appropriate scratching
> > > > > surfaces for my cats, and taught them where they are.
>
> > > > > As usual, when blathering on about the USA, you have no idea what
> > > > > you're talking about.
>
> > > > > Lis
>
> > > > i said 'some' people, i didn't mean all.
>
> > > > so i have no idea what I am talking about eh? so you are sayign that
> > > > when i state that some people in the US have their cats declawed that
> > > > I am wrong ? are you sayign that noone in the states gets their cat
> > > > declawed?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > No, Bookie, you didn't say "some." You said:
>
> > > "anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> > > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> > > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> > > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> > > ways in which we look at our animasl for me"
>
> > > You presented Americans as callous, furniture-obsessed monsters who
> > > all declaw our cats, in contrast to those decent human beings, the
> > > Brits, who would rather have their furniture wrecked. And you implied
> > > that all our cats are unhappy, too.
>
> > > You have wrecked furniture. I have intact furniture, AND happy cats,
> > > because I've provided appropriate, attractive-to-them places for them
> > > to climb and scratch and hide. Also toys for them to play with;
> > > they're not bored out of their minds with nothing better for them to
> > > do than wreck my furniture. I bet Sheelagh doesn't have wrecked
> > > furniture, either.
>
> > > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > and you have just implied that all my furniture is wrecked and I am
> > not providing my cats with adequate means to sharpen their claws on or
> > climb and hide and suchlike, and that they are both bored out of their
> > minds and so wreck my furniture.
>
> > considering that with our animal welfare law now you are pretty much
> > accusing me of breaking the law and of being a criminal, I would be
> > careful what you say now as it could well amount to defamation of
> > character. Especially as what you may be implying about me personally
> > is not true (but why let that small detail stop you)
>
> > sure you want to go down that route?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I was simply mirroring for you what you do concerning my country
> pretty regularly, in the vain hope that you might recognize yourself
> and rethink your sweeping defamations of an entire country. Waste of
> pixels, obviously.
>
> Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

and it amuses me that you actually care what i think or say about your
poxy country, that i have actually managed to wind you up to this
point, that you cannot just shrug it off and go 'whatever'!

like i really what you think about blighty anyway, you opinion is not
really worth worrying about since you are only an american and
therefore not important inthe grand scheme of things (do you even know
where my country is? could you point to it on a map? do you know what
a map is? probably not)

Lilah Morgan
June 3rd 07, 12:37 AM
"bookie" > wrote in message
oups.com...

> is it correct that you have the right to have any case heard in a
> court of law inthe US? regardless of how outlandish it actually is?
> something in your constitution or something, not sure about the
> veracity of that statement.

There is supposed to be a law or something preventing frivolous lawsuits,
but apparently it doesn't get used too much. If you go by the strict letter
of the law, even the most stupidest lawsuits have merit. Which is why there
are human judges. To publicly shame stupid people for not even realizing how
stupid they are! But then again, the judge just might want A: to get
publicity by allowing such a stupid case to go forward, knowing there will
be lots of press, or B: have a personal issue with whoever's being sued, or
C: be stupid themselves.

Matthew
June 3rd 07, 12:44 AM
"bookie" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
>> On Jun 1, 9:12 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 1 Jun, 19:03, bookie > wrote:
>>
>> > > On 1 Jun, 15:54, Lis > wrote:
>>
>> > > > On May 31, 6:32 pm, bookie > wrote:
>>
>> > > > > On 31 May, 19:35, Lis > wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > On May 30, 9:14 pm, bookie > wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > <snip>
>>
>> > > > > > > anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us;
>> > > > > > > you have
>> > > > > > > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots
>> > > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal
>> > > > > > > with it
>> > > > > > > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the
>> > > > > > > different
>> > > > > > > ways in which we look at our animasl for me
>>
>> > > > > > Sweetie-pie, _some_ people have their cats declawed. It's
>> > > > > > controversial, most vets refuse to do it in most circumstances,
>> > > > > > humane
>> > > > > > societies and breeders generally include BOTH "must be an
>> > > > > > indoor cat
>> > > > > > only" and "must not be declawed" clauses in all
>> > > > > > adoption/purchase
>> > > > > > contracts.
>>
>> > > > > > I have happy cats, that have all their claws, AND mostly
>> > > > > > undamaged
>> > > > > > furniture, because I've always provided appropriate scratching
>> > > > > > surfaces for my cats, and taught them where they are.
>>
>> > > > > > As usual, when blathering on about the USA, you have no idea
>> > > > > > what
>> > > > > > you're talking about.
>>
>> > > > > > Lis
>>
>> > > > > i said 'some' people, i didn't mean all.
>>
>> > > > > so i have no idea what I am talking about eh? so you are sayign
>> > > > > that
>> > > > > when i state that some people in the US have their cats declawed
>> > > > > that
>> > > > > I am wrong ? are you sayign that noone in the states gets their
>> > > > > cat
>> > > > > declawed?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > > > No, Bookie, you didn't say "some." You said:
>>
>> > > > "anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you
>> > > > have
>> > > > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
>> > > > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with
>> > > > it
>> > > > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the
>> > > > different
>> > > > ways in which we look at our animasl for me"
>>
>> > > > You presented Americans as callous, furniture-obsessed monsters who
>> > > > all declaw our cats, in contrast to those decent human beings, the
>> > > > Brits, who would rather have their furniture wrecked. And you
>> > > > implied
>> > > > that all our cats are unhappy, too.
>>
>> > > > You have wrecked furniture. I have intact furniture, AND happy
>> > > > cats,
>> > > > because I've provided appropriate, attractive-to-them places for
>> > > > them
>> > > > to climb and scratch and hide. Also toys for them to play with;
>> > > > they're not bored out of their minds with nothing better for them
>> > > > to
>> > > > do than wreck my furniture. I bet Sheelagh doesn't have wrecked
>> > > > furniture, either.
>>
>> > > > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > > and you have just implied that all my furniture is wrecked and I am
>> > > not providing my cats with adequate means to sharpen their claws on
>> > > or
>> > > climb and hide and suchlike, and that they are both bored out of
>> > > their
>> > > minds and so wreck my furniture.
>>
>> > > considering that with our animal welfare law now you are pretty much
>> > > accusing me of breaking the law and of being a criminal, I would be
>> > > careful what you say now as it could well amount to defamation of
>> > > character. Especially as what you may be implying about me personally
>> > > is not true (but why let that small detail stop you)
>>
>> > > sure you want to go down that route?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > This is all going a little bit toooo Far.
>>
>> > If you think I like the sound of my own voice-then you do. Who gives a
>> > monkeys?
>>
>> > If the comment was intended to slight me, then it failed. I don't
>> > feel the need to do the same to you right now......
>>
>> Um, Sheelagh, no, my qualification in that statement was intended
>> specifically to make clear that I _wasn't_ including you; that I was
>> throwing Bookie repeated insults and defamations of my country back at
>> _her_, and not at every person who happens to be British, and
>> especially not at you--who doesn't engage in this sort of generalized,
>> taken-for-granted-as-fact defamation of my country.
>>
>> > Just for the record, I could do with a new 3 piece because the cats
>> > have ravaged it in the side and on the arm too. I would love to say
>> > that was the cats wouldn't damage it, but it is not true. They have
>> > also scratched the hell out of my coffee table legs as well, but so
>> > what, I can replace them, where I can't replace them.
>>
>> > To me, if you declaw your cat, it is cruel. I couldn't consider doing
>> > it, & that is the end of the matter. I don't care if they are chinese,
>> > Canadian or Brits, it is wrong-end of.
>>
>> Bookie may have confused the issue by now, but no, my cats are not
>> declawed. And no, I do not approve of declawing. And despite some
>> confusion that apparently exists on the subject in the UK, declawing,
>> while legal in most of the US, is also widely disapproved of, strongly
>> discouraged by humane societies, breeders, and veterinarians. And, in
>> fifty years of life, I've personally known only two people who have
>> ever had cats declawed--one cat each, and in those cases, it wasn't to
>> protect the furniture. I didn't agree with the decision in either
>> case, but it wasn't furniture they were trying to protect.
>>
>> > OTOH, I do actively discourage it where possible, & I get quite peeved
>> > when they climb on the top in the kitchen;only one particular top, but
>> > It's a no no here. My plate & their feet don't mix...marlbes & jars
>> > work well here.....
>>
>> > I don't think for one moment Bookie"intended" to slight anyone here,
>> > sometimes things just come across the wrong way, & I can see where it
>> > did here. Lis, I "know" she certainly didn't intend to provoke you.(or
>> > anyone else). It is out of hand, & we should know better than to
>> > attack one another in here.
>>
>> Sheelagh, I'm sorry, but I have to judge Bookie by what she actually
>> says--especially when she does it over and over again. I'm sure she
>> didn't intend to "provoke" anyone; I think she takes it for grranted
>> that her amazingly insulting views of Americans are uncontroversial
>> fact, and is always surprised (but not daunted in her certainty) when
>> she's challenged on it or any of her "facts" are disputed.
>>
>> > There are far more important things we could be talking about without
>> > giving in to what is clearly exactly what the trolls want. We are
>> > creating 7th heaven. how about we stop what we are doing & take a long
>> > hard think about what "could" happen here. I'm done with name
>> > calling.
>> > I'd much rather hear Matthews house Rules over again.. they were
>> > hilarious & I hope he shares them with us all. They were ever so good,
>> > but more to the point, so true, that you had to laugh when you got
>> > through them;o)
>>
>> If Matthew will post them, I'll be happy to read them and laugh.
>>
>> > I think we can do better than this...don't you?
>>
>> Hey, a lot of the time we do. But do you think you might consider
>> directing some of this lecture to _Bookie_, and assigning some of the
>> responsibility to her habitual demeaning and insulting of another
>> country?
>>
>> Lis- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
> seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the world
> think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant warmongerers?
> were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at you all
> and think you're all morons? ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
> brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a bit of a dig
> at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society as far
> from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>
> anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to be not
> even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you expect when
> you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>
> dear oh dear oh dear
>

Thanks Bookie I am an American even more than that I am part Native
American

sheelagh
June 3rd 07, 12:55 AM
On 3 Jun, 00:44, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
> >> On Jun 1, 9:12 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> >> > On 1 Jun, 19:03, bookie > wrote:
>
> >> > > On 1 Jun, 15:54, Lis > wrote:
>
> >> > > > On May 31, 6:32 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> >> > > > > On 31 May, 19:35, Lis > wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > On May 30, 9:14 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > <snip>
>
> >> > > > > > > anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us;
> >> > > > > > > you have
> >> > > > > > > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots
> >> > > > > > > of
> >> > > > > > > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal
> >> > > > > > > with it
> >> > > > > > > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the
> >> > > > > > > different
> >> > > > > > > ways in which we look at our animasl for me
>
> >> > > > > > Sweetie-pie, _some_ people have their cats declawed. It's
> >> > > > > > controversial, most vets refuse to do it in most circumstances,
> >> > > > > > humane
> >> > > > > > societies and breeders generally include BOTH "must be an
> >> > > > > > indoor cat
> >> > > > > > only" and "must not be declawed" clauses in all
> >> > > > > > adoption/purchase
> >> > > > > > contracts.
>
> >> > > > > > I have happy cats, that have all their claws, AND mostly
> >> > > > > > undamaged
> >> > > > > > furniture, because I've always provided appropriate scratching
> >> > > > > > surfaces for my cats, and taught them where they are.
>
> >> > > > > > As usual, when blathering on about the USA, you have no idea
> >> > > > > > what
> >> > > > > > you're talking about.
>
> >> > > > > > Lis
>
> >> > > > > i said 'some' people, i didn't mean all.
>
> >> > > > > so i have no idea what I am talking about eh? so you are sayign
> >> > > > > that
> >> > > > > when i state that some people in the US have their cats declawed
> >> > > > > that
> >> > > > > I am wrong ? are you sayign that noone in the states gets their
> >> > > > > cat
> >> > > > > declawed?- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> > > > No, Bookie, you didn't say "some." You said:
>
> >> > > > "anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you
> >> > > > have
> >> > > > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> >> > > > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with
> >> > > > it
> >> > > > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the
> >> > > > different
> >> > > > ways in which we look at our animasl for me"
>
> >> > > > You presented Americans as callous, furniture-obsessed monsters who
> >> > > > all declaw our cats, in contrast to those decent human beings, the
> >> > > > Brits, who would rather have their furniture wrecked. And you
> >> > > > implied
> >> > > > that all our cats are unhappy, too.
>
> >> > > > You have wrecked furniture. I have intact furniture, AND happy
> >> > > > cats,
> >> > > > because I've provided appropriate, attractive-to-them places for
> >> > > > them
> >> > > > to climb and scratch and hide. Also toys for them to play with;
> >> > > > they're not bored out of their minds with nothing better for them
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > do than wreck my furniture. I bet Sheelagh doesn't have wrecked
> >> > > > furniture, either.
>
> >> > > > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> > > and you have just implied that all my furniture is wrecked and I am
> >> > > not providing my cats with adequate means to sharpen their claws on
> >> > > or
> >> > > climb and hide and suchlike, and that they are both bored out of
> >> > > their
> >> > > minds and so wreck my furniture.
>
> >> > > considering that with our animal welfare law now you are pretty much
> >> > > accusing me of breaking the law and of being a criminal, I would be
> >> > > careful what you say now as it could well amount to defamation of
> >> > > character. Especially as what you may be implying about me personally
> >> > > is not true (but why let that small detail stop you)
>
> >> > > sure you want to go down that route?- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> > This is all going a little bit toooo Far.
>
> >> > If you think I like the sound of my own voice-then you do. Who gives a
> >> > monkeys?
>
> >> > If the comment was intended to slight me, then it failed. I don't
> >> > feel the need to do the same to you right now......
>
> >> Um, Sheelagh, no, my qualification in that statement was intended
> >> specifically to make clear that I _wasn't_ including you; that I was
> >> throwing Bookie repeated insults and defamations of my country back at
> >> _her_, and not at every person who happens to be British, and
> >> especially not at you--who doesn't engage in this sort of generalized,
> >> taken-for-granted-as-fact defamation of my country.
>
> >> > Just for the record, I could do with a new 3 piece because the cats
> >> > have ravaged it in the side and on the arm too. I would love to say
> >> > that was the cats wouldn't damage it, but it is not true. They have
> >> > also scratched the hell out of my coffee table legs as well, but so
> >> > what, I can replace them, where I can't replace them.
>
> >> > To me, if you declaw your cat, it is cruel. I couldn't consider doing
> >> > it, & that is the end of the matter. I don't care if they are chinese,
> >> > Canadian or Brits, it is wrong-end of.
>
> >> Bookie may have confused the issue by now, but no, my cats are not
> >> declawed. And no, I do not approve of declawing. And despite some
> >> confusion that apparently exists on the subject in the UK, declawing,
> >> while legal in most of the US, is also widely disapproved of, strongly
> >> discouraged by humane societies, breeders, and veterinarians. And, in
> >> fifty years of life, I've personally known only two people who have
> >> ever had cats declawed--one cat each, and in those cases, it wasn't to
> >> protect the furniture. I didn't agree with the decision in either
> >> case, but it wasn't furniture they were trying to protect.
>
> >> > OTOH, I do actively discourage it where possible, & I get quite peeved
> >> > when they climb on the top in the kitchen;only one particular top, but
> >> > It's a no no here. My plate & their feet don't mix...marlbes & jars
> >> > work well here.....
>
> >> > I don't think for one moment Bookie"intended" to slight anyone here,
> >> > sometimes things just come across the wrong way, & I can see where it
> >> > did here. Lis, I "know" she certainly didn't intend to provoke you.(or
> >> > anyone else). It is out of hand, & we should know better than to
> >> > attack one another in here.
>
> >> Sheelagh, I'm sorry, but I have to judge Bookie by what she actually
> >> says--especially when she does it over and over again. I'm sure she
> >> didn't intend to "provoke" anyone; I think she takes it for grranted
> >> that her amazingly insulting views of Americans are uncontroversial
> >> fact, and is always surprised (but not daunted in her certainty) when
> >> she's challenged on it or any of her "facts" are disputed.
>
> >> > There are far more important things we could be talking about without
> >> > giving in to what is clearly exactly what the trolls want. We are
> >> > creating 7th heaven. how about we stop what we are doing & take a long
> >> > hard think about what "could" happen here. I'm done with name
> >> > calling.
> >> > I'd much rather hear Matthews house Rules over again.. they were
> >> > hilarious & I hope he shares them with us all. They were ever so good,
> >> > but more to the point, so true, that you had to laugh when you got
> >> > through them;o)
>
> >> If Matthew will post them, I'll be happy to read them and laugh.
>
> >> > I think we can do better than this...don't you?
>
> >> Hey, a lot of the time we do. But do you think you might consider
> >> directing some of this lecture to _Bookie_, and assigning some of the
> >> responsibility to her habitual demeaning and insulting of another
> >> country?
>
> >> Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
> > seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the world
> > think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant warmongerers?
> > were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at you all
> > and think you're all morons? ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
> > brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a bit of a dig
> > at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society as far
> > from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>
> > anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to be not
> > even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you expect when
> > you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>
> > dear oh dear oh dear
>
> Thanks Bookie I am an American even more than that I am part Native
> American- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text

MaryL
June 3rd 07, 03:02 AM
"Lilah Morgan" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
>> Bookie isn't the only one who thinks this way. I find it rather hard
>> to understand as well, but then again, I live in the UK too..
>
> I know the UK is more considerate when it comes to animals than the US is.
> A
> friend of mine in Liverpool adopted a kitten last year, and here in the
> States, at animal shelters you basically just pay like $50 and you get to
> take the animal home.
<snip>

This is absolutely *not true.* There are some shelters that do that, but
there are many more that have policies designed to protect the welfare of
pets that are adopted. Please check for my message in this thread where I
described the process when I adopted Duffy -- definitely *not* what you
described! I adopted Duffy from a shelter about 30-35 miles from my home.
Our local shelter is often criticized (almost to the point of abuse) because
they will *not* do as you claimed. Many people are almost enraged because
they have fairly stringent adoption policies and some people seem to think
that "any home is better than euthanasia" (where clearly that is often not
the case).

So, it's true that some shelters are not worthy of the name "shelter," but
you simply cannot lump all US facilities together into one bundle (and I
would expect that's true of most countries).

MaryL

Lilah Morgan
June 3rd 07, 03:10 AM
"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
...

> This is absolutely *not true.* There are some shelters that do that, but
> there are many more that have policies designed to protect the welfare of
> pets that are adopted. Please check for my message in this thread where I
> described the process when I adopted Duffy -- definitely *not* what you
> described! I adopted Duffy from a shelter about 30-35 miles from my home.
> Our local shelter is often criticized (almost to the point of abuse)
because
> they will *not* do as you claimed. Many people are almost enraged because
> they have fairly stringent adoption policies and some people seem to think
> that "any home is better than euthanasia" (where clearly that is often not
> the case).
>
> So, it's true that some shelters are not worthy of the name "shelter," but
> you simply cannot lump all US facilities together into one bundle (and I
> would expect that's true of most countries).
>
> MaryL

For the record, I am American citizen. And I have lived in 3 different
states where that's how we adopted our pets. Granted it's been well over 10
years since we've adopted a pet from a shelter(all our dogs now have come to
us because people we knew wouldn't fix their pets and had litters as a
result), so the rules indeed may have changed, but I am speaking from
legitimate experience.

MaryL
June 3rd 07, 03:40 AM
"Lilah Morgan" > wrote in message
link.net...
> "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
> ...
>
>> This is absolutely *not true.* There are some shelters that do that, but
>> there are many more that have policies designed to protect the welfare of
>> pets that are adopted. Please check for my message in this thread where
>> I
>> described the process when I adopted Duffy -- definitely *not* what you
>> described! I adopted Duffy from a shelter about 30-35 miles from my
>> home.
>> Our local shelter is often criticized (almost to the point of abuse)
> because
>> they will *not* do as you claimed. Many people are almost enraged
>> because
>> they have fairly stringent adoption policies and some people seem to
>> think
>> that "any home is better than euthanasia" (where clearly that is often
>> not
>> the case).
>>
>> So, it's true that some shelters are not worthy of the name "shelter,"
>> but
>> you simply cannot lump all US facilities together into one bundle (and I
>> would expect that's true of most countries).
>>
>> MaryL
>
> For the record, I am American citizen. And I have lived in 3 different
> states where that's how we adopted our pets. Granted it's been well over
> 10
> years since we've adopted a pet from a shelter(all our dogs now have come
> to
> us because people we knew wouldn't fix their pets and had litters as a
> result), so the rules indeed may have changed, but I am speaking from
> legitimate experience.
>
>

I wasn't questioning a statement that *some* shelters may follow that
policy, and I wasn't concentrating on citizenship (although I assumed that
you are a US citizen or at least live here). My concern is that you have
taken your experience and seem to assum that *all* shelters operate that
way. My experience has been exactly the opposite -- but that does not mean
that all shelters are well run, it only means that my experience has not
been the same as yours. Moreover, ten years would not make the difference.
What makes the difference is that there are many thousands of shelters in
the US, and there are many variations among them.

MaryL

MaryL
June 3rd 07, 04:37 AM
"bookie" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>
> sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
> seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the world
> think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant warmongerers?
> were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at you all
> and think you're all morons? ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
> brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a bit of a dig
> at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society as far
> from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>
> anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to be not
> even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you expect when
> you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>
> dear oh dear oh dear
>

Wow! You certainly are good at overgeneralizations. You're right, there's
no law against hating Americans and considerting them to be not even worthy
enough for you to wipe your feet on. On the other hand, there's also no law
that would prohibit you (and some others on the newsgroup) from using a
little courtesy.

MaryL

reeper
June 3rd 07, 12:22 PM
On Jun 2, 11:37 pm, "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER>
> Wow! You certainly are good at overgeneralizations. You're right, there's
> no law against hating Americans and considerting them to be not even worthy
> enough for you to wipe your feet on. On the other hand, there's also no law
> that would prohibit you (and some others on the newsgroup) from using a
> little courtesy.

courtesy and common sense

it takes an ignorant so an so to mistreat a stranger

IOW's :D you ain't lost nothin MaryL

ok, so we lost the adoration of one constipated pale writer

Lis
June 3rd 07, 04:17 PM
On Jun 1, 7:23 pm, bookie > wrote:
> On 2 Jun, 00:05, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 05:13:44 GMT, "Lilah Morgan"
>
> > > wrote:
> > >I thought the lady who sued McDonald's for getting her fat was
> > >bad, but my mom heard about this one gal who was driving down the road in
> > >her RV, and she had to go to the bathroom, so she puts the RV in cruise
> > >control, LEAVES THE WHEEL, and gets up to go to the bathroom. Of course the
> > >RV crashes. She's not seriously hurt, but she sues the RV manufacturer
> > >because they didn't say in the manual you can't leave the wheel unattended
> > >when it's in cruise control. If that's not bad enough, she WON the lawsuit.
>
> > Snopes!
>
> >http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/cruise.asp
>
> > There are many version of that story to be found. :)
>
> i heard the one about the woman who bought a coffee from a McDonalds
> drive-thru, wedged it in between her legs to hold it as she drove off,
> and when she inevitably spilt it over her ample thighs she sued
> McDonalds for persoanl injury or something because of the massive
> scalding and burns to her legs and general 'lady area' she suffered as
> a result of her own stupidity.
>
> I think the lawyers claimed that she had no idea that the coffee was
> going to be so hot or something incredibly stupid like that. If
> someone tried that in this country it woudl be laughed out of court,
> if it even got that fair in the first place, any judge woudl just tell
> the silly old mare that she should not have been so damn stupid and
> what she did was her own damn fault.

That's the popular version of the story, promoted by the "tort reform"
crowd who want to make it prohibitively hard for individuals to sue
corporations, ever. The reality was rather different.
A) She wasn't the driver; she was a passenger.
B)The car was parked, not moving. PARKED, in the designated area of
the McDonald's lot for drive-up customers.
C) McDonald's served its coffee 40F hotter than any other major chain.
People expect coffee to be hot; they don't expect it to be 40F hotter
than anyone else serves it. McD's had been warned repeatedly that it
was a problem--including previous lawsuits settled for lower amounts.
D) The coffee spilled because the cup lid was defective. McDonald's
was ALSO on notice that the lids were defective, and had chosen not to
replace them before that supply ran out--to save money, you see.

McDonald's lost that case in court because the jury was prevented with
overwhelming evidence that the stupidity and carelessness in the case
was McDonald's, not the woman's. They did, however, win in the arena
of public opinion, where trivial things like facts don't matter.'

> is it correct that you have the right to have any case heard in a
> court of law inthe US? regardless of how outlandish it actually is?
> something in your constitution or something, not sure about the
> veracity of that statement.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Anyone can sue anyone about anything. That doesn't mean it won't get
thrown out as frivolous, or malicious, and lawyers who cooperate in
friviolous or malicious lawsuits can be disbarred, which is a pretty
strong disincentive to bringing cases you can't win anyway.

Lis

sheelagh
June 3rd 07, 04:52 PM
On Jun 3, 3:02 am, "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER>
wrote:
> "Lilah Morgan" > wrote in message
>
> hlink.net...> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
> >> Bookie isn't the only one who thinks this way. I find it rather hard
> >> to understand as well, but then again, I live in the UK too..
>
> > I know the UK is more considerate when it comes to animals than the US is.
> > A
> > friend of mine in Liverpool adopted a kitten last year, and here in the
> > States, at animal shelters you basically just pay like $50 and you get to
> > take the animal home.
>
> <snip>
>
> This is absolutely *not true.* There are some shelters that do that, but
> there are many more that have policies designed to protect the welfare of
> pets that are adopted. Please check for my message in this thread where I
> described the process when I adopted Duffy -- definitely *not* what you
> described! I adopted Duffy from a shelter about 30-35 miles from my home.
> Our local shelter is often criticized (almost to the point of abuse) because
> they will *not* do as you claimed. Many people are almost enraged because
> they have fairly stringent adoption policies and some people seem to think
> that "any home is better than euthanasia" (where clearly that is often not
> the case).
>
> So, it's true that some shelters are not worthy of the name "shelter," but
> you simply cannot lump all US facilities together into one bundle (and I
> would expect that's true of most countries).
>
> MaryL



> >> Bookie isn't the only one who thinks this way. I find it rather hard
> >> to understand as well, but then again, I live in the UK too..

Mary, when i made this post, I had just read a post called "Lots of
pets in need of homes, the shelters are full". Next to this was a link
provided. I quickly skimmed through it & "assumed" it was a shelter
advertising pets that needed re homing.

http://www.tradeurban.com/?action=search&cat=6

Lis has since explained that it is simply an advertising link for
kitten mill & dog millers too. Had I realised this then, I would never
have have posted anything regarding this issue. Since then, lis has
responded to me, explaining that it wasn't a genuine shelter post...

It was never my intention to enrage, upset or otherwise annoy people
who genuinely work very hard to ensure that they cats get the very
best that volunteers & key workers do, day in & out. I fully
appreciate how hard they work & I commend & thank them for it too. if
anyone was offended by anything I wrote in that post, then I
apologise. I wasn't talking about shelters in that post. It was more
to do with the welfare of pets that people/owners couldn't afford to
take to the vets. Again, since then, I have done a bit of homework of
my own.

Take -L's post a few days ago?

On 2 Jun, 04:23, sheelagh > wrote:
> On Jun 2, 3:55 am, "-L." > wrote:
>
> > An acquaintance has a number of intact stray cats and no funds - does
> > anyone know of a TTVNR or low-cost S/N clinic in mid-Michigan?
>
> > Please reply here and/or send an email. Address is good.
>
> > Thanks!
>
> > -L.
>
> I wonder if this might be some help to you L?
> I hope it is what you were looking for?
>
> http://www.lovethatcat.com/spayneuter.html#mi
> S;o)

Going by your own experiences, crossed with what I have found
personally, alone, It is quite clear to me that if you really want
your cat seen by a vet, then it is possible, if only you will seek far
enough. It is clear that it is more a question of whether people we
see post here, can be bothers to look for it, not the other way around
@ all!!

I am sorry if you were offended, genuinely so too!
S.

Lilah Morgan
June 3rd 07, 05:41 PM
"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
...

> I wasn't questioning a statement that *some* shelters may follow that
> policy, and I wasn't concentrating on citizenship (although I assumed that
> you are a US citizen or at least live here). My concern is that you have
> taken your experience and seem to assum that *all* shelters operate that
> way. My experience has been exactly the opposite -- but that does not
mean
> that all shelters are well run, it only means that my experience has not
> been the same as yours. Moreover, ten years would not make the
difference.
> What makes the difference is that there are many thousands of shelters in
> the US, and there are many variations among them.
>
> MaryL


I would hope that not all shelters are run that way, but given that you said
your local shelter(I think it was your local one?) gets criticized seriously
for not just handing the pet over after the adoption fee is paid, I'd say
that people think that's how it done given their experiences. I'd actually
prefer it if your shelter was the rule, not the apparent exception. Pets are
people too. There's no reason they(shelters) couldn't take more time to make
sure the pets are going to a good stable home. Lack of funds is not an
excuse. Shelters who just take the fee and then give the pets over, they've
been in big cities(not just small rural towns) where they can get donations
to cover the cost of making sure they're doing the right thing. If we didn't
live an hour away from the shelter here, I'd probably be volunteering at the
shelter in my spare time, and doing what I can to make them more than just
basically a pet store. I've never adopted from them, but we did look into
the shelter when we moved here, and they actually want you to pay to drop an
animal off.

Fred G. Mackey[_2_]
June 3rd 07, 06:26 PM
Lis wrote:
> On May 31, 6:32 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
>>On 31 May, 19:35, Lis > wrote:
>>
>>
>
> No, Bookie, you didn't say "some." You said:
>
> "anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> ways in which we look at our animasl for me"
>
> You presented Americans as callous, furniture-obsessed monsters who
> all declaw our cats, in contrast to those decent human beings, the
> Brits, who would rather have their furniture wrecked. And you implied
> that all our cats are unhappy, too.


A hateful attitude towards the US is not uncommon among Brits. My
theory on this is they're upset about the loss of their empire, of which
the US would have been the "crown jewel" had they been able to hang onto it.

>
> You have wrecked furniture. I have intact furniture, AND happy cats,
> because I've provided appropriate, attractive-to-them places for them
> to climb and scratch and hide. Also toys for them to play with;
> they're not bored out of their minds with nothing better for them to
> do than wreck my furniture. I bet Sheelagh doesn't have wrecked
> furniture, either.
>
> Lis
>

MaryL
June 3rd 07, 06:27 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Jun 3, 3:02 am, "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER>
> wrote:
>> "Lilah Morgan" > wrote in message
>>
>> hlink.net...>
>> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>
>> >> Bookie isn't the only one who thinks this way. I find it rather hard
>> >> to understand as well, but then again, I live in the UK too..
>>
>> > I know the UK is more considerate when it comes to animals than the US
>> > is.
>> > A
>> > friend of mine in Liverpool adopted a kitten last year, and here in the
>> > States, at animal shelters you basically just pay like $50 and you get
>> > to
>> > take the animal home.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> This is absolutely *not true.* There are some shelters that do that, but
>> there are many more that have policies designed to protect the welfare of
>> pets that are adopted. Please check for my message in this thread where
>> I
>> described the process when I adopted Duffy -- definitely *not* what you
>> described! I adopted Duffy from a shelter about 30-35 miles from my
>> home.
>> Our local shelter is often criticized (almost to the point of abuse)
>> because
>> they will *not* do as you claimed. Many people are almost enraged
>> because
>> they have fairly stringent adoption policies and some people seem to
>> think
>> that "any home is better than euthanasia" (where clearly that is often
>> not
>> the case).
>>
>> So, it's true that some shelters are not worthy of the name "shelter,"
>> but
>> you simply cannot lump all US facilities together into one bundle (and I
>> would expect that's true of most countries).
>>
>> MaryL
>
>
>
>> >> Bookie isn't the only one who thinks this way. I find it rather hard
>> >> to understand as well, but then again, I live in the UK too..
>
> Mary, when i made this post, I had just read a post called "Lots of
> pets in need of homes, the shelters are full". Next to this was a link
> provided. I quickly skimmed through it & "assumed" it was a shelter
> advertising pets that needed re homing.
>
> http://www.tradeurban.com/?action=search&cat=6
>
> Lis has since explained that it is simply an advertising link for
> kitten mill & dog millers too. Had I realised this then, I would never
> have have posted anything regarding this issue. Since then, lis has
> responded to me, explaining that it wasn't a genuine shelter post...
>
> It was never my intention to enrage, upset or otherwise annoy people
> who genuinely work very hard to ensure that they cats get the very
> best that volunteers & key workers do, day in & out. I fully
> appreciate how hard they work & I commend & thank them for it too. if
> anyone was offended by anything I wrote in that post, then I
> apologise. I wasn't talking about shelters in that post. It was more
> to do with the welfare of pets that people/owners couldn't afford to
> take to the vets. Again, since then, I have done a bit of homework of
> my own.
>
> Take -L's post a few days ago?
>
> On 2 Jun, 04:23, sheelagh > wrote:
>> On Jun 2, 3:55 am, "-L." > wrote:
>>
>> > An acquaintance has a number of intact stray cats and no funds - does
>> > anyone know of a TTVNR or low-cost S/N clinic in mid-Michigan?
>>
>> > Please reply here and/or send an email. Address is good.
>>
>> > Thanks!
>>
>> > -L.
>>
>> I wonder if this might be some help to you L?
>> I hope it is what you were looking for?
>>
>> http://www.lovethatcat.com/spayneuter.html#mi
>> S;o)
>
> Going by your own experiences, crossed with what I have found
> personally, alone, It is quite clear to me that if you really want
> your cat seen by a vet, then it is possible, if only you will seek far
> enough. It is clear that it is more a question of whether people we
> see post here, can be bothers to look for it, not the other way around
> @ all!!
>
> I am sorry if you were offended, genuinely so too!
> S.
>

Thanks, Sheelagh. No, you didn't offend me. I just wanted to make a
correction because there are actually a wide variety of levels of shelters
in the US (and probably in other countries as well). One problem that is
tragically similar for all shelters except for the no-kill shelters (which
are distinctly in the minority and often have to turn away cats and dogs
because they are filled) is that far too many animals have to be euthanized
because there are no homes for them. We have spay/neuter programs, but
there are still far too many people who fail to have that done and far too
many where animals are simply abandoned or neglected. So, it really is a
big problem. On the positive side, we have a great many people who
genuinely love their pets and will do their utmost to see that their cats or
dogs (or horses or...) are happy and well-cared-for.

MaryL

Fred G. Mackey[_2_]
June 3rd 07, 06:28 PM
bookie wrote:
> On 1 Jun, 15:54, Lis > wrote:
>
>>On May 31, 6:32 pm, bookie > wrote:
>>
>>
>>

>
> and you have just implied that all my furniture is wrecked

You're the one who said it was all scratched up and "ancient".

sheelagh
June 3rd 07, 06:35 PM
On Jun 3, 3:40 am, "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER>
wrote:
> "Lilah Morgan" > wrote in message
>
> link.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
> ...
>
> >> This is absolutely *not true.* There are some shelters that do that, but
> >> there are many more that have policies designed to protect the welfare of
> >> pets that are adopted. Please check for my message in this thread where
> >> I
> >> described the process when I adopted Duffy -- definitely *not* what you
> >> described! I adopted Duffy from a shelter about 30-35 miles from my
> >> home.
> >> Our local shelter is often criticized (almost to the point of abuse)
> > because
> >> they will *not* do as you claimed. Many people are almost enraged
> >> because
> >> they have fairly stringent adoption policies and some people seem to
> >> think
> >> that "any home is better than euthanasia" (where clearly that is often
> >> not
> >> the case).
>
> >> So, it's true that some shelters are not worthy of the name "shelter,"
> >> but
> >> you simply cannot lump all US facilities together into one bundle (and I
> >> would expect that's true of most countries).
>
> >> MaryL
>
> > For the record, I am American citizen. And I have lived in 3 different
> > states where that's how we adopted our pets. Granted it's been well over
> > 10
> > years since we've adopted a pet from a shelter(all our dogs now have come
> > to
> > us because people we knew wouldn't fix their pets and had litters as a
> > result), so the rules indeed may have changed, but I am speaking from
> > legitimate experience.
>
> I wasn't questioning a statement that *some* shelters may follow that
> policy, and I wasn't concentrating on citizenship (although I assumed that
> you are a US citizen or at least live here). My concern is that you have
> taken your experience and seem to assum that *all* shelters operate that
> way. My experience has been exactly the opposite -- but that does not mean
> that all shelters are well run, it only means that my experience has not
> been the same as yours. Moreover, ten years would not make the difference.
> What makes the difference is that there are many thousands of shelters in
> the US, and there are many variations among them.
>
> MaryL- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

> I wasn't questioning a statement that *some* shelters may follow that
> policy, and I wasn't concentrating on citizenship (although I assumed that
> you are a US citizen or at least live here). My concern is that you have
> taken your experience and seem to assum that *all* shelters operate that
> way. My experience has been exactly the opposite -- but that does not mean
> that all shelters are well run, it only means that my experience has not
> been the same as yours. Moreover, ten years would not make the difference.
> What makes the difference is that there are many thousands of shelters in
> the US, and there are many variations among them.

It is the same in the UK as well. There are plenty well meaning people
who take it upon themselves to rescue cats for whatever thier reasons
are, then find it all a bit too much to cope with, & of course it is
the animals that suffer in the end...


> >> you simply cannot lump all US facilities together into one bundle (and I
> >> would expect that's true of most countries).

We do have badly run shelters. Generally they don't get very far,
because as I am sure you would all do, we report anything that we feel
might be amiss to the RSPCA & they check them out. I'm certain it must
be the same for you too? It's only the odd bad egg that gives the
others a bad name.....

And the RSPCA has the added burden of having to try & clean them all
up, feed them, socialise them, then find new homes!! A lot of work for
all concerned & sad when you see it happening. It's a global problem-
not simply in one country or another....

I think it is in human nature to categorize certain races with habits
and behaviour that we "see as wrong" when it comes to our pets..( I
must stress @ this point, that I don't think it is correct- merely
human nature, I think) the other day, I was watching a program on TV,
where the host of the show was offered fried Dog in China. Personally,
I think this is slightly different when it comes to not understanding
the other nations habits & what they consider as "normal".. I find
this very distasteful & also very hard to accept as normal.

I wonder if I had come from there, whether I would see it in the same
light as they seemed to? And, would I take offense if someone
questioned that practise?

This has nothing to do with this topic, I am merely questioning
whether I would see it in the same light?
S;o)

Fred G. Mackey[_2_]
June 3rd 07, 06:35 PM
bookie wrote:
> On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
>

>
>
> sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
> seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the world
> think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant warmongerers?

LOL - Say what you want. You're just jealous.
And besides Vietnam, I cannot think of any war in recent memory in which
the Brits weren't fighting alongside the US - unless you include the
Falklands War which was just another desperate attempt by the UK to hold
onto the remains of their once mighty and vast empire. In this case,
they were defending an island populated mainly by sheep.

> were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at you all
> and think you're all morons?

We laugh at you and statements like yours prove you're morons.

> ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
> brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a bit of a dig
> at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society as far
> from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.


That's because you're ignorant - Is it as blissful as you say?

>
> anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to be not
> even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you expect when
> you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>

Heh - you should take a good look in the mirror.

> dear oh dear oh dear
>

Fred G. Mackey[_2_]
June 3rd 07, 06:39 PM
bookie wrote:
> On 2 Jun, 04:07, Lis > wrote:
>
>>On Jun 1, 2:03 pm, bookie > wrote:

>
> and it amuses me that you actually care what i think or say about your
> poxy country, that i have actually managed to wind you up to this
> point, that you cannot just shrug it off and go 'whatever'!
>
> like i really what you think about blighty anyway, you opinion is not
> really worth worrying about since you are only an american and
> therefore not important inthe grand scheme of things (do you even know
> where my country is? could you point to it on a map?


It's that itty bitty island off of mainland Europe, right? Lucky for
you too since Hitler didn't have tanks which could cross the English
Channel.


Also lucky for you that we were "warmonger" enough to save your sorry asses.

> do you know what
> a map is? probably not)
>

sheelagh
June 3rd 07, 07:06 PM
On Jun 3, 6:35 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
> bookie wrote:
> > On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
>
> > sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
> > seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the world
> > think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant warmongerers?
>
> LOL - Say what you want. You're just jealous.
> And besides Vietnam, I cannot think of any war in recent memory in which
> the Brits weren't fighting alongside the US - unless you include the
> Falklands War which was just another desperate attempt by the UK to hold
> onto the remains of their once mighty and vast empire. In this case,
> they were defending an island populated mainly by sheep.
>
> > were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at you all
> > and think you're all morons?
>
> We laugh at you and statements like yours prove you're morons.
>
> > ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
> > brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a bit of a dig
> > at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society as far
> > from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>
> That's because you're ignorant - Is it as blissful as you say?
>
>
>
> > anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to be not
> > even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you expect when
> > you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>
> Heh - you should take a good look in the mirror.
>
>
>
> > dear oh dear oh dear- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Fred...!
Don't ruin my pixel picture of you....

1.If I had said it, does that make Bookie as bad as me?
2.Do you think we all hold the same views?
3.Does that mean if Bookie said so, It is so?
4.we all laugh about each other..Fact!
5.I would like to think that not all Americans are like one of our
more tasteless posters from the USA....?
6.Does that mean if A USA troll posts something rude about me, that is
ok, because I am not a USA citizen?

7.We could all learn something from this...

How can you call Bookie for what she has to say when you are doing
exactly the same thing? Personally, I don't care if you think we are
all like that, because I know better. I don't "hate you" because you
come from somewhere different than I do - & nor do I tar you with the
same brush as someone who has made very disparaging remarks about me,
or the country I live in, simply because that someone comes from the
USA either......

My point here is that we are all different & most of us have differing
views on things, but that is not a good reason to class everyone as
the same as the person who might have offended you.

Mary just has a better way of saying it than I do:o)
S;o)

MaryL
June 3rd 07, 07:22 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Jun 3, 6:35 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
>> bookie wrote:
>> > On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
>>
>> > sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
>> > seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the world
>> > think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant warmongerers?
>>
>> LOL - Say what you want. You're just jealous.
>> And besides Vietnam, I cannot think of any war in recent memory in which
>> the Brits weren't fighting alongside the US - unless you include the
>> Falklands War which was just another desperate attempt by the UK to hold
>> onto the remains of their once mighty and vast empire. In this case,
>> they were defending an island populated mainly by sheep.
>>
>> > were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at you all
>> > and think you're all morons?
>>
>> We laugh at you and statements like yours prove you're morons.
>>
>> > ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
>> > brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a bit of a dig
>> > at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society as far
>> > from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>>
>> That's because you're ignorant - Is it as blissful as you say?
>>
>>
>>
>> > anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to be not
>> > even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you expect when
>> > you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>>
>> Heh - you should take a good look in the mirror.
>>
>>
>>
>> > dear oh dear oh dear- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Fred...!
> Don't ruin my pixel picture of you....
>
> 1.If I had said it, does that make Bookie as bad as me?
> 2.Do you think we all hold the same views?
> 3.Does that mean if Bookie said so, It is so?
> 4.we all laugh about each other..Fact!
> 5.I would like to think that not all Americans are like one of our
> more tasteless posters from the USA....?
> 6.Does that mean if A USA troll posts something rude about me, that is
> ok, because I am not a USA citizen?
>
> 7.We could all learn something from this...
>
> How can you call Bookie for what she has to say when you are doing
> exactly the same thing? Personally, I don't care if you think we are
> all like that, because I know better. I don't "hate you" because you
> come from somewhere different than I do - & nor do I tar you with the
> same brush as someone who has made very disparaging remarks about me,
> or the country I live in, simply because that someone comes from the
> USA either......
>
> My point here is that we are all different & most of us have differing
> views on things, but that is not a good reason to class everyone as
> the same as the person who might have offended you.
>
> Mary just has a better way of saying it than I do:o)
> S;o)
>

Not always ... but thanks! One problem with the Internet is that we often
sit down and write something without giving it enough thought, then hit the
send button -- and it's instantly out there in cyberspace, whereas snail
mail at least would give us time to give it "a second thought" and re-write
(or possibly destroy) what we had just written.

MaryL

sheelagh
June 3rd 07, 07:24 PM
On 3 Jun, 19:22, "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER>
wrote:
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 3, 6:35 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
> >> bookie wrote:
> >> > On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
>
> >> > sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
> >> > seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the world
> >> > think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant warmongerers?
>
> >> LOL - Say what you want. You're just jealous.
> >> And besides Vietnam, I cannot think of any war in recent memory in which
> >> the Brits weren't fighting alongside the US - unless you include the
> >> Falklands War which was just another desperate attempt by the UK to hold
> >> onto the remains of their once mighty and vast empire. In this case,
> >> they were defending an island populated mainly by sheep.
>
> >> > were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at you all
> >> > and think you're all morons?
>
> >> We laugh at you and statements like yours prove you're morons.
>
> >> > ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
> >> > brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a bit of a dig
> >> > at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society as far
> >> > from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>
> >> That's because you're ignorant - Is it as blissful as you say?
>
> >> > anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to be not
> >> > even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you expect when
> >> > you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>
> >> Heh - you should take a good look in the mirror.
>
> >> > dear oh dear oh dear- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Fred...!
> > Don't ruin my pixel picture of you....
>
> > 1.If I had said it, does that make Bookie as bad as me?
> > 2.Do you think we all hold the same views?
> > 3.Does that mean if Bookie said so, It is so?
> > 4.we all laugh about each other..Fact!
> > 5.I would like to think that not all Americans are like one of our
> > more tasteless posters from the USA....?
> > 6.Does that mean if A USA troll posts something rude about me, that is
> > ok, because I am not a USA citizen?
>
> > 7.We could all learn something from this...
>
> > How can you call Bookie for what she has to say when you are doing
> > exactly the same thing? Personally, I don't care if you think we are
> > all like that, because I know better. I don't "hate you" because you
> > come from somewhere different than I do - & nor do I tar you with the
> > same brush as someone who has made very disparaging remarks about me,
> > or the country I live in, simply because that someone comes from the
> > USA either......
>
> > My point here is that we are all different & most of us have differing
> > views on things, but that is not a good reason to class everyone as
> > the same as the person who might have offended you.
>
> > Mary just has a better way of saying it than I do:o)
> > S;o)
>
> Not always ... but thanks! One problem with the Internet is that we often
> sit down and write something without giving it enough thought, then hit the
> send button -- and it's instantly out there in cyberspace, whereas snail
> mail at least would give us time to give it "a second thought" and re-write
> (or possibly destroy) what we had just written.
>
> MaryL- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Exactly:o)

S.

Lilah Morgan
June 3rd 07, 08:16 PM
"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
...

> Not always ... but thanks! One problem with the Internet is that we often
> sit down and write something without giving it enough thought, then hit
the
> send button -- and it's instantly out there in cyberspace, whereas snail
> mail at least would give us time to give it "a second thought" and
re-write
> (or possibly destroy) what we had just written.
>
> MaryL

I'll second that(or would it be third/fourth/whatever-th?). I definitely
myself have been guilty of that lately. Been so busy with things lately,
that when I get online, I'm either A: snappy because there's so much to do
and I want some me time, but knowing it's just taking me away from doing
things that need to get done, and feeling like I don't have a right to me
time makes me crankier, or B: so rushed I just type out the first thing that
comes to mind in reply to posts, and then later on when I'm doing something
else, realize I should have phrased it much better. Today was supposed to be
a rest day where I could relax and take a deep breath, but I've already done
the last tier to our pond thing. There was a big hole with an old/dead stump
in it that I started the pond in, then it started overflowing, so I dug a
slightly smaller pond below it(it's on a slope), then THAT started
overflowing, so I made the absolutely last little pond today below that, and
made it so the first two 'ponds' only drain into the others when they reach
a certain point. Now I'm off to dig up an area for a 'potato patch' and
transplant some strawberries. That's a rest day for me. And no matter what
day it is, when I get up, first thing I gotta do is take out all the dogs,
then water everything, then feed the dogs/cat their morning meal(they get
fed twice a day) and give the chickens/geese/bunnies their daily meals. Then
I get some coffee and a breather. Oh that reminds me, I gotta clean out the
litter box today. Snail mail...I haven't done that in ages. Mostly what I
write lately are shopping/to do lists ;-)

Lilah Morgan
June 3rd 07, 08:48 PM
"Lilah Morgan" > wrote in message
hlink.net...

> I'll second that(or would it be third/fourth/whatever-th?). I definitely
> myself have been guilty of that lately. Been so busy with things lately,
> that when I get online, I'm either A: snappy because there's so much to do
> and I want some me time, but knowing it's just taking me away from doing
> things that need to get done, and feeling like I don't have a right to me
> time makes me crankier, or B: so rushed I just type out the first thing
that
> comes to mind in reply to posts, and then later on when I'm doing
something
> else, realize I should have phrased it much better. Today was supposed to
be
> a rest day where I could relax and take a deep breath, but I've already
done
> the last tier to our pond thing. There was a big hole with an old/dead
stump
> in it that I started the pond in, then it started overflowing, so I dug a
> slightly smaller pond below it(it's on a slope), then THAT started
> overflowing, so I made the absolutely last little pond today below that,
and
> made it so the first two 'ponds' only drain into the others when they
reach
> a certain point. Now I'm off to dig up an area for a 'potato patch' and
> transplant some strawberries. That's a rest day for me. And no matter what
> day it is, when I get up, first thing I gotta do is take out all the dogs,
> then water everything, then feed the dogs/cat their morning meal(they get
> fed twice a day) and give the chickens/geese/bunnies their daily meals.
Then
> I get some coffee and a breather. Oh that reminds me, I gotta clean out
the
> litter box today. Snail mail...I haven't done that in ages. Mostly what I
> write lately are shopping/to do lists ;-)

Did it again, realized after I posted that I should have clarified that when
I say 'me time', that very much includes playing with the dogs/cat. That
provides 'therapy' you just can't buy.

MaryL
June 3rd 07, 09:57 PM
"Lilah Morgan" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> "Lilah Morgan" > wrote in message
> hlink.net...
>
>> I'll second that(or would it be third/fourth/whatever-th?). I definitely
>> myself have been guilty of that lately. Been so busy with things lately,
>> that when I get online, I'm either A: snappy because there's so much to
>> do
>> and I want some me time, but knowing it's just taking me away from doing
>> things that need to get done, and feeling like I don't have a right to me
>> time makes me crankier, or B: so rushed I just type out the first thing
> that
>> comes to mind in reply to posts, and then later on when I'm doing
> something
>> else, realize I should have phrased it much better. Today was supposed to
> be
>> a rest day where I could relax and take a deep breath, but I've already
> done
>> the last tier to our pond thing. There was a big hole with an old/dead
> stump
>> in it that I started the pond in, then it started overflowing, so I dug a
>> slightly smaller pond below it(it's on a slope), then THAT started
>> overflowing, so I made the absolutely last little pond today below that,
> and
>> made it so the first two 'ponds' only drain into the others when they
> reach
>> a certain point. Now I'm off to dig up an area for a 'potato patch' and
>> transplant some strawberries. That's a rest day for me. And no matter
>> what
>> day it is, when I get up, first thing I gotta do is take out all the
>> dogs,
>> then water everything, then feed the dogs/cat their morning meal(they get
>> fed twice a day) and give the chickens/geese/bunnies their daily meals.
> Then
>> I get some coffee and a breather. Oh that reminds me, I gotta clean out
> the
>> litter box today. Snail mail...I haven't done that in ages. Mostly what I
>> write lately are shopping/to do lists ;-)
>
> Did it again, realized after I posted that I should have clarified that
> when
> I say 'me time', that very much includes playing with the dogs/cat. That
> provides 'therapy' you just can't buy.
>
>

It sure does (personal therapy time). My mother, age 91, is in the hospital
with pneumonia and there are no other family members in this area. I spent
8 hours with her yesterday, but she sobbed uncontrollably when I left. She
was calm today but is hallucinating (probably from medication). She is
talking to people who aren't there and thinks she's playing a game of
bridge. She didn't notice when I left this time because she's not really
"here," but I took the opportunity to grab some time for myself -- and to
curl up with Holly and Duffy. Good therapy, as you said!

MaryL

Lilah Morgan
June 3rd 07, 11:23 PM
"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
...

> It sure does (personal therapy time). My mother, age 91, is in the
hospital
> with pneumonia and there are no other family members in this area. I
spent
> 8 hours with her yesterday, but she sobbed uncontrollably when I left.
She
> was calm today but is hallucinating (probably from medication). She is
> talking to people who aren't there and thinks she's playing a game of
> bridge. She didn't notice when I left this time because she's not really
> "here," but I took the opportunity to grab some time for myself -- and to
> curl up with Holly and Duffy. Good therapy, as you said!
>
> MaryL

Sorry to hear about your mother. My grandmother(my mother's mother) is
hospice right now do to a very bad heart attack she barely survived(it took
away most of her heart muscle, and she apparently can't talk. My aunt she
was living with called and told me this). Mishka(our littlest and newest
doggie) is looking at me with her puppy eyes right now, in her subtle plea
for attention(which is acknowledged and agreed to). And upon seeing that,
Shadowbear(our alpha female) does her thing where she just sits up right
next to you(and I mean *right* next to) and looks up at you until you give
her attention. And now having her needs recognized, she goes off to just
outside my door and lays down to clean herself. Joxer is the most demanding
when it comes to attention. He'll just meow his head off til he gets some.
One time a few years back he made the mistake of waking me up that way. He
got up on the bed and walked up to my head and started meowing as loud as he
could right in my face. I didn't know it was him, I just knew something was
disturbing my sleep, so I took my arm and made a sweeping motion away from
my head, and then I heard this MEEEEOWWWWWWWRRRRRR! and that woke me up, and
I realized it was Joxer, and I looked over the side of my bed and he's
hanging onto it for dear life with his claws(wouldn't have hurt him to fall
though, was only maybe 6 inches at best onto carpeted floor). I picked him
up and apologized, and he apologized in his way too. By never doing that
again haha. And I'm gonna leave the strawberry transplanting until tomorrow.
I wanna get those homemade doggie biscuits and catnip toys made, and some
goodies for me too :-)

bookie
June 4th 07, 03:45 AM
On 3 Jun, 00:44, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
> >> On Jun 1, 9:12 pm, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> >> > On 1 Jun, 19:03, bookie > wrote:
>
> >> > > On 1 Jun, 15:54, Lis > wrote:
>
> >> > > > On May 31, 6:32 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> >> > > > > On 31 May, 19:35, Lis > wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > On May 30, 9:14 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > <snip>
>
> >> > > > > > > anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us;
> >> > > > > > > you have
> >> > > > > > > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots
> >> > > > > > > of
> >> > > > > > > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal
> >> > > > > > > with it
> >> > > > > > > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the
> >> > > > > > > different
> >> > > > > > > ways in which we look at our animasl for me
>
> >> > > > > > Sweetie-pie, _some_ people have their cats declawed. It's
> >> > > > > > controversial, most vets refuse to do it in most circumstances,
> >> > > > > > humane
> >> > > > > > societies and breeders generally include BOTH "must be an
> >> > > > > > indoor cat
> >> > > > > > only" and "must not be declawed" clauses in all
> >> > > > > > adoption/purchase
> >> > > > > > contracts.
>
> >> > > > > > I have happy cats, that have all their claws, AND mostly
> >> > > > > > undamaged
> >> > > > > > furniture, because I've always provided appropriate scratching
> >> > > > > > surfaces for my cats, and taught them where they are.
>
> >> > > > > > As usual, when blathering on about the USA, you have no idea
> >> > > > > > what
> >> > > > > > you're talking about.
>
> >> > > > > > Lis
>
> >> > > > > i said 'some' people, i didn't mean all.
>
> >> > > > > so i have no idea what I am talking about eh? so you are sayign
> >> > > > > that
> >> > > > > when i state that some people in the US have their cats declawed
> >> > > > > that
> >> > > > > I am wrong ? are you sayign that noone in the states gets their
> >> > > > > cat
> >> > > > > declawed?- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> > > > No, Bookie, you didn't say "some." You said:
>
> >> > > > "anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you
> >> > > > have
> >> > > > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> >> > > > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with
> >> > > > it
> >> > > > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the
> >> > > > different
> >> > > > ways in which we look at our animasl for me"
>
> >> > > > You presented Americans as callous, furniture-obsessed monsters who
> >> > > > all declaw our cats, in contrast to those decent human beings, the
> >> > > > Brits, who would rather have their furniture wrecked. And you
> >> > > > implied
> >> > > > that all our cats are unhappy, too.
>
> >> > > > You have wrecked furniture. I have intact furniture, AND happy
> >> > > > cats,
> >> > > > because I've provided appropriate, attractive-to-them places for
> >> > > > them
> >> > > > to climb and scratch and hide. Also toys for them to play with;
> >> > > > they're not bored out of their minds with nothing better for them
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > do than wreck my furniture. I bet Sheelagh doesn't have wrecked
> >> > > > furniture, either.
>
> >> > > > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> > > and you have just implied that all my furniture is wrecked and I am
> >> > > not providing my cats with adequate means to sharpen their claws on
> >> > > or
> >> > > climb and hide and suchlike, and that they are both bored out of
> >> > > their
> >> > > minds and so wreck my furniture.
>
> >> > > considering that with our animal welfare law now you are pretty much
> >> > > accusing me of breaking the law and of being a criminal, I would be
> >> > > careful what you say now as it could well amount to defamation of
> >> > > character. Especially as what you may be implying about me personally
> >> > > is not true (but why let that small detail stop you)
>
> >> > > sure you want to go down that route?- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> > This is all going a little bit toooo Far.
>
> >> > If you think I like the sound of my own voice-then you do. Who gives a
> >> > monkeys?
>
> >> > If the comment was intended to slight me, then it failed. I don't
> >> > feel the need to do the same to you right now......
>
> >> Um, Sheelagh, no, my qualification in that statement was intended
> >> specifically to make clear that I _wasn't_ including you; that I was
> >> throwing Bookie repeated insults and defamations of my country back at
> >> _her_, and not at every person who happens to be British, and
> >> especially not at you--who doesn't engage in this sort of generalized,
> >> taken-for-granted-as-fact defamation of my country.
>
> >> > Just for the record, I could do with a new 3 piece because the cats
> >> > have ravaged it in the side and on the arm too. I would love to say
> >> > that was the cats wouldn't damage it, but it is not true. They have
> >> > also scratched the hell out of my coffee table legs as well, but so
> >> > what, I can replace them, where I can't replace them.
>
> >> > To me, if you declaw your cat, it is cruel. I couldn't consider doing
> >> > it, & that is the end of the matter. I don't care if they are chinese,
> >> > Canadian or Brits, it is wrong-end of.
>
> >> Bookie may have confused the issue by now, but no, my cats are not
> >> declawed. And no, I do not approve of declawing. And despite some
> >> confusion that apparently exists on the subject in the UK, declawing,
> >> while legal in most of the US, is also widely disapproved of, strongly
> >> discouraged by humane societies, breeders, and veterinarians. And, in
> >> fifty years of life, I've personally known only two people who have
> >> ever had cats declawed--one cat each, and in those cases, it wasn't to
> >> protect the furniture. I didn't agree with the decision in either
> >> case, but it wasn't furniture they were trying to protect.
>
> >> > OTOH, I do actively discourage it where possible, & I get quite peeved
> >> > when they climb on the top in the kitchen;only one particular top, but
> >> > It's a no no here. My plate & their feet don't mix...marlbes & jars
> >> > work well here.....
>
> >> > I don't think for one moment Bookie"intended" to slight anyone here,
> >> > sometimes things just come across the wrong way, & I can see where it
> >> > did here. Lis, I "know" she certainly didn't intend to provoke you.(or
> >> > anyone else). It is out of hand, & we should know better than to
> >> > attack one another in here.
>
> >> Sheelagh, I'm sorry, but I have to judge Bookie by what she actually
> >> says--especially when she does it over and over again. I'm sure she
> >> didn't intend to "provoke" anyone; I think she takes it for grranted
> >> that her amazingly insulting views of Americans are uncontroversial
> >> fact, and is always surprised (but not daunted in her certainty) when
> >> she's challenged on it or any of her "facts" are disputed.
>
> >> > There are far more important things we could be talking about without
> >> > giving in to what is clearly exactly what the trolls want. We are
> >> > creating 7th heaven. how about we stop what we are doing & take a long
> >> > hard think about what "could" happen here. I'm done with name
> >> > calling.
> >> > I'd much rather hear Matthews house Rules over again.. they were
> >> > hilarious & I hope he shares them with us all. They were ever so good,
> >> > but more to the point, so true, that you had to laugh when you got
> >> > through them;o)
>
> >> If Matthew will post them, I'll be happy to read them and laugh.
>
> >> > I think we can do better than this...don't you?
>
> >> Hey, a lot of the time we do. But do you think you might consider
> >> directing some of this lecture to _Bookie_, and assigning some of the
> >> responsibility to her habitual demeaning and insulting of another
> >> country?
>
> >> Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
> > seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the world
> > think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant warmongerers?
> > were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at you all
> > and think you're all morons? ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
> > brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a bit of a dig
> > at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society as far
> > from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>
> > anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to be not
> > even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you expect when
> > you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>
> > dear oh dear oh dear
>
> Thanks Bookie I am an American even more than that I am part Native
> American- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

good for you!

bookie
June 4th 07, 03:47 AM
On 3 Jun, 18:35, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
> bookie wrote:
> > On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
>
> > sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
> > seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the world
> > think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant warmongerers?
>
> LOL - Say what you want. You're just jealous.
> And besides Vietnam, I cannot think of any war in recent memory in which
> the Brits weren't fighting alongside the US - unless you include the
> Falklands War which was just another desperate attempt by the UK to hold
> onto the remains of their once mighty and vast empire. In this case,
> they were defending an island populated mainly by sheep.
>
> > were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at you all
> > and think you're all morons?
>
> We laugh at you and statements like yours prove you're morons.
>
> > ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
> > brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a bit of a dig
> > at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society as far
> > from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>
> That's because you're ignorant - Is it as blissful as you say?
>
>
>
> > anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to be not
> > even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you expect when
> > you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>
> Heh - you should take a good look in the mirror.
>
>
>
> > dear oh dear oh dear- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

do you know anything about the falklands war? or the people who live
there? no , thought not, typical yank ignorance again

and who wanted to go in a 'kick some ass' in iraq so badly? ah yes,
you yanks

bookie
June 4th 07, 03:51 AM
On 3 Jun, 19:06, sheelagh > wrote:
> On Jun 3, 6:35 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > bookie wrote:
> > > On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
> > > seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the world
> > > think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant warmongerers?
>
> > LOL - Say what you want. You're just jealous.
> > And besides Vietnam, I cannot think of any war in recent memory in which
> > the Brits weren't fighting alongside the US - unless you include the
> > Falklands War which was just another desperate attempt by the UK to hold
> > onto the remains of their once mighty and vast empire. In this case,
> > they were defending an island populated mainly by sheep.
>
> > > were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at you all
> > > and think you're all morons?
>
> > We laugh at you and statements like yours prove you're morons.
>
> > > ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
> > > brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a bit of a dig
> > > at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society as far
> > > from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>
> > That's because you're ignorant - Is it as blissful as you say?
>
> > > anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to be not
> > > even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you expect when
> > > you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>
> > Heh - you should take a good look in the mirror.
>
> > > dear oh dear oh dear- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Fred...!
> Don't ruin my pixel picture of you....
>
> 1.If I had said it, does that make Bookie as bad as me?
> 2.Do you think we all hold the same views?
> 3.Does that mean if Bookie said so, It is so?
> 4.we all laugh about each other..Fact!
> 5.I would like to think that not all Americans are like one of our
> more tasteless posters from the USA....?
> 6.Does that mean if A USA troll posts something rude about me, that is
> ok, because I am not a USA citizen?
>
> 7.We could all learn something from this...
>
> How can you call Bookie for what she has to say when you are doing
> exactly the same thing? Personally, I don't care if you think we are
> all like that, because I know better. I don't "hate you" because you
> come from somewhere different than I do - & nor do I tar you with the
> same brush as someone who has made very disparaging remarks about me,
> or the country I live in, simply because that someone comes from the
> USA either......
>
> My point here is that we are all different & most of us have differing
> views on things, but that is not a good reason to class everyone as
> the same as the person who might have offended you.
>
> Mary just has a better way of saying it than I do:o)
> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

to be perfectly honest, most americans are not really worth me
expending any energy actually hating, they just don't deserve me
spending that emotion on them, so guys please don't flatter yourselves
thinking that you actually are worthy of my loathing because the vast
majority aren't.

anyway, i really can't believe you all give a **** what I think of
you, although it does amuse when you all get so worked about it,
especially when that is really not what this newgroup is here for
(discussion about cats in case anyone had forgotten)

bookie
June 4th 07, 03:54 AM
On 3 Jun, 18:26, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
> Lis wrote:
> > On May 31, 6:32 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> >>On 31 May, 19:35, Lis > wrote:
>
> > No, Bookie, you didn't say "some." You said:
>
> > "anyway think about the differences in attitudes between us; you have
> > your cats declawed and have pristine furniture, we have lots of
> > scratch marks all over our ancient tables and chairs and deal with it
> > (and have happy cats as a result), says somethign about the different
> > ways in which we look at our animasl for me"
>
> > You presented Americans as callous, furniture-obsessed monsters who
> > all declaw our cats, in contrast to those decent human beings, the
> > Brits, who would rather have their furniture wrecked. And you implied
> > that all our cats are unhappy, too.
>
> A hateful attitude towards the US is not uncommon among Brits. My
> theory on this is they're upset about the loss of their empire, of which
> the US would have been the "crown jewel" had they been able to hang onto it.
>
>
>
>
>
> > You have wrecked furniture. I have intact furniture, AND happy cats,
> > because I've provided appropriate, attractive-to-them places for them
> > to climb and scratch and hide. Also toys for them to play with;
> > they're not bored out of their minds with nothing better for them to
> > do than wreck my furniture. I bet Sheelagh doesn't have wrecked
> > furniture, either.
>
> > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

never heard of the commonwealth? obviously not

Fred G. Mackey[_2_]
June 4th 07, 04:52 AM
bookie wrote:

> never heard of the commonwealth? obviously not
>

ROFLMAO

Matthew
June 4th 07, 05:40 AM
"bookie" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On 3 Jun, 19:06, sheelagh > wrote:
>> On Jun 3, 6:35 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > bookie wrote:
>> > > On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
>>
>> > > sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
>> > > seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the world
>> > > think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant warmongerers?
>>
>> > LOL - Say what you want. You're just jealous.
>> > And besides Vietnam, I cannot think of any war in recent memory in
>> > which
>> > the Brits weren't fighting alongside the US - unless you include the
>> > Falklands War which was just another desperate attempt by the UK to
>> > hold
>> > onto the remains of their once mighty and vast empire. In this case,
>> > they were defending an island populated mainly by sheep.
>>
>> > > were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at you
>> > > all
>> > > and think you're all morons?
>>
>> > We laugh at you and statements like yours prove you're morons.
>>
>> > > ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
>> > > brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a bit of a
>> > > dig
>> > > at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society as far
>> > > from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>>
>> > That's because you're ignorant - Is it as blissful as you say?
>>
>> > > anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to be
>> > > not
>> > > even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you expect when
>> > > you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>>
>> > Heh - you should take a good look in the mirror.
>>
>> > > dear oh dear oh dear- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Fred...!
>> Don't ruin my pixel picture of you....
>>
>> 1.If I had said it, does that make Bookie as bad as me?
>> 2.Do you think we all hold the same views?
>> 3.Does that mean if Bookie said so, It is so?
>> 4.we all laugh about each other..Fact!
>> 5.I would like to think that not all Americans are like one of our
>> more tasteless posters from the USA....?
>> 6.Does that mean if A USA troll posts something rude about me, that is
>> ok, because I am not a USA citizen?
>>
>> 7.We could all learn something from this...
>>
>> How can you call Bookie for what she has to say when you are doing
>> exactly the same thing? Personally, I don't care if you think we are
>> all like that, because I know better. I don't "hate you" because you
>> come from somewhere different than I do - & nor do I tar you with the
>> same brush as someone who has made very disparaging remarks about me,
>> or the country I live in, simply because that someone comes from the
>> USA either......
>>
>> My point here is that we are all different & most of us have differing
>> views on things, but that is not a good reason to class everyone as
>> the same as the person who might have offended you.
>>
>> Mary just has a better way of saying it than I do:o)
>> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> to be perfectly honest, most americans are not really worth me
> expending any energy actually hating, they just don't deserve me
> spending that emotion on them, so guys please don't flatter yourselves
> thinking that you actually are worthy of my loathing because the vast
> majority aren't.
>
> anyway, i really can't believe you all give a **** what I think of
> you, although it does amuse when you all get so worked about it,
> especially when that is really not what this newgroup is here for
> (discussion about cats in case anyone had forgotten)
>

Take a Midol or something would you and get over it. It is getting boring
already

Fred G. Mackey[_2_]
June 4th 07, 05:56 AM
bookie wrote:
> On 3 Jun, 19:06, sheelagh > wrote:
>
>>On Jun 3, 6:35 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
>>
>>

>
> to be perfectly honest, most americans are not really worth me
> expending any energy actually hating, they just don't deserve me
> spending that emotion on them, so guys please don't flatter yourselves
> thinking that you actually are worthy of my loathing because the vast
> majority aren't.
>

Keep telling yourself that and maybe you'll eventually convince yourself.

IBen Getiner
June 4th 07, 10:42 AM
On May 27, 3:22?pm, Calico > wrote:
> I live on the third floor of an apartment block and yesterday I didn't
> close one of the windows properly. Next thing I realise that I hadn't
> seen puss in a while so I went looking for her when I noticed she had
> pushed it open and jumped out onto concrete. I ran down and managed to
> get her back inside but she had a bloody nose and seemed to be in
> shock.
>
> She's a calico, and goes CRAZY when taken to the vet so I thought the
> best thing to do was to keep her in her environment and keep her calm.
> She was walking around okay & didn't seem to have broken anything
> apart from busting her nose.
>
> So she kind of curled up and went into herself so I thought the best
> thing to do was to let her be. Then this morning she was still really,
> really subdued and I noticed that she was going to the toilet a lot
> and passing small amounts of blood. I also read lots on the internet
> last night about cats dying from going into shock so I got her into
> the vets at 11 am this morning. (she had her fall about 2pm yesterday)
> As expected the vets examination was traumatic for the cat she ended
> up biting the vet and on one of his shelves. But we got her down & he
> gave her anti-shock meds & painkillers. He said that she had injured
> her back but couldn't tell how severe the damage was without doing x-
> rays. So he's keeping her in today & tomorrow.
>
> I feel so guilty! I should have made sure the close the window
> properly and brought her to the vet IMMEDIATELY after it happened.
> She's up there now and I know she is going to be totally stressed out
> & I am convinced she is going to die in a cage up there from some
> internal injury. It's Sunday today so there is probably no supervision
> up there today/tonight.
>
> The vet said there was no threat to her life and that I shouldn't
> worry but I just KNOW the cat isn't going to get better. And if there
> is a chance she'll probably require surgery in another district so I
> don't know if it would be better to let her go!
>
> Has anyone had similar experiences with back injuries and cats? She
> seemed okay yesterday but for being subdued & was even purring this
> morning & was walking okay and everything.
>
> I should mention that this is my brothers cat who passed away a couple
> of years ago. He ADORED her so she has to be make it. I've been crying
> all day thinking about him and the cat being frightened up in the
> vets. What am I going to do??
You are a NUT. You should have taken the cat to the vet right then and
there. Who are you to make this kind of life and death judgment? And
what's this krap about how she hates going to the vet? Do you think
she'd hate being dead less?
You probably were worried that they were going to site you for animal
abuse, which makes your hesitance even more telling and even more
negligent. Next time, bite the bullet and take your pet to the vet
straight away. You're the kind of person who would hit a bystander
with your car and then flee the scene, in my humble opinion. And I've
come across a thousand like you.
Get a life. Try to put things above you that you say you love.
Otherwise, it's all just transparent lip-service to veteran cat lovers
like us.


IBen

bookie
June 4th 07, 12:45 PM
On 4 Jun, 05:40, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 3 Jun, 19:06, sheelagh > wrote:
> >> On Jun 3, 6:35 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
>
> >> > bookie wrote:
> >> > > On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
>
> >> > > sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
> >> > > seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the world
> >> > > think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant warmongerers?
>
> >> > LOL - Say what you want. You're just jealous.
> >> > And besides Vietnam, I cannot think of any war in recent memory in
> >> > which
> >> > the Brits weren't fighting alongside the US - unless you include the
> >> > Falklands War which was just another desperate attempt by the UK to
> >> > hold
> >> > onto the remains of their once mighty and vast empire. In this case,
> >> > they were defending an island populated mainly by sheep.
>
> >> > > were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at you
> >> > > all
> >> > > and think you're all morons?
>
> >> > We laugh at you and statements like yours prove you're morons.
>
> >> > > ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
> >> > > brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a bit of a
> >> > > dig
> >> > > at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society as far
> >> > > from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>
> >> > That's because you're ignorant - Is it as blissful as you say?
>
> >> > > anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to be
> >> > > not
> >> > > even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you expect when
> >> > > you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>
> >> > Heh - you should take a good look in the mirror.
>
> >> > > dear oh dear oh dear- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> Fred...!
> >> Don't ruin my pixel picture of you....
>
> >> 1.If I had said it, does that make Bookie as bad as me?
> >> 2.Do you think we all hold the same views?
> >> 3.Does that mean if Bookie said so, It is so?
> >> 4.we all laugh about each other..Fact!
> >> 5.I would like to think that not all Americans are like one of our
> >> more tasteless posters from the USA....?
> >> 6.Does that mean if A USA troll posts something rude about me, that is
> >> ok, because I am not a USA citizen?
>
> >> 7.We could all learn something from this...
>
> >> How can you call Bookie for what she has to say when you are doing
> >> exactly the same thing? Personally, I don't care if you think we are
> >> all like that, because I know better. I don't "hate you" because you
> >> come from somewhere different than I do - & nor do I tar you with the
> >> same brush as someone who has made very disparaging remarks about me,
> >> or the country I live in, simply because that someone comes from the
> >> USA either......
>
> >> My point here is that we are all different & most of us have differing
> >> views on things, but that is not a good reason to class everyone as
> >> the same as the person who might have offended you.
>
> >> Mary just has a better way of saying it than I do:o)
> >> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > to be perfectly honest, most americans are not really worth me
> > expending any energy actually hating, they just don't deserve me
> > spending that emotion on them, so guys please don't flatter yourselves
> > thinking that you actually are worthy of my loathing because the vast
> > majority aren't.
>
> > anyway, i really can't believe you all give a **** what I think of
> > you, although it does amuse when you all get so worked about it,
> > especially when that is really not what this newgroup is here for
> > (discussion about cats in case anyone had forgotten)
>
> Take a Midol or something would you and get over it. It is getting boring
> already- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

what's a Midol? some bizarre pharamceutical preparation you need to
take in order to cope with life on t'other side of the pond amongst
all the rednecks and rampaging trigger happy gun-lovers? we have this
thing called 'a nice cup of tea and a sit down', probably works just
as well, if not better.

please follow the link to understand what gives us brits our stiff
upper lip and our dunkirk spirit

http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/


bookie

sheelagh
June 4th 07, 03:12 PM
On 4 Jun, 03:47, bookie > wrote:
> On 3 Jun, 18:35, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > bookie wrote:
> > > On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
>
> > > sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
> > > seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the world
> > > think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant warmongerers?
>
> > LOL - Say what you want. You're just jealous.
> > And besides Vietnam, I cannot think of any war in recent memory in which
> > the Brits weren't fighting alongside the US - unless you include the
> > Falklands War which was just another desperate attempt by the UK to hold
> > onto the remains of their once mighty and vast empire. In this case,
> > they were defending an island populated mainly by sheep.
>
> > > were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at you all
> > > and think you're all morons?
>
> > We laugh at you and statements like yours prove you're morons.
>
> > > ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
> > > brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a bit of a dig
> > > at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society as far
> > > from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>
> > That's because you're ignorant - Is it as blissful as you say?
>
> > > anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to be not
> > > even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you expect when
> > > you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>
> > Heh - you should take a good look in the mirror.
>
> > > dear oh dear oh dear- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> do you know anything about the falklands war? or the people who live
> there? no , thought not, typical yank ignorance again
>
> and who wanted to go in a 'kick some ass' in iraq so badly? ah yes,
> you yanks- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thats Tony Blair for you!!
He's gone soon;o)

Matthew
June 4th 07, 04:31 PM
"bookie" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On 4 Jun, 05:40, "Matthew" > wrote:
>> "bookie" > wrote in message
>>
>> ups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 3 Jun, 19:06, sheelagh > wrote:
>> >> On Jun 3, 6:35 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
>>
>> >> > bookie wrote:
>> >> > > On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
>>
>> >> > > sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
>> >> > > seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the
>> >> > > world
>> >> > > think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant
>> >> > > warmongerers?
>>
>> >> > LOL - Say what you want. You're just jealous.
>> >> > And besides Vietnam, I cannot think of any war in recent memory in
>> >> > which
>> >> > the Brits weren't fighting alongside the US - unless you include
>> >> > the
>> >> > Falklands War which was just another desperate attempt by the UK to
>> >> > hold
>> >> > onto the remains of their once mighty and vast empire. In this
>> >> > case,
>> >> > they were defending an island populated mainly by sheep.
>>
>> >> > > were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at you
>> >> > > all
>> >> > > and think you're all morons?
>>
>> >> > We laugh at you and statements like yours prove you're morons.
>>
>> >> > > ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
>> >> > > brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a bit of a
>> >> > > dig
>> >> > > at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society as
>> >> > > far
>> >> > > from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>>
>> >> > That's because you're ignorant - Is it as blissful as you say?
>>
>> >> > > anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to be
>> >> > > not
>> >> > > even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you expect
>> >> > > when
>> >> > > you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>>
>> >> > Heh - you should take a good look in the mirror.
>>
>> >> > > dear oh dear oh dear- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >> Fred...!
>> >> Don't ruin my pixel picture of you....
>>
>> >> 1.If I had said it, does that make Bookie as bad as me?
>> >> 2.Do you think we all hold the same views?
>> >> 3.Does that mean if Bookie said so, It is so?
>> >> 4.we all laugh about each other..Fact!
>> >> 5.I would like to think that not all Americans are like one of our
>> >> more tasteless posters from the USA....?
>> >> 6.Does that mean if A USA troll posts something rude about me, that is
>> >> ok, because I am not a USA citizen?
>>
>> >> 7.We could all learn something from this...
>>
>> >> How can you call Bookie for what she has to say when you are doing
>> >> exactly the same thing? Personally, I don't care if you think we are
>> >> all like that, because I know better. I don't "hate you" because you
>> >> come from somewhere different than I do - & nor do I tar you with the
>> >> same brush as someone who has made very disparaging remarks about me,
>> >> or the country I live in, simply because that someone comes from the
>> >> USA either......
>>
>> >> My point here is that we are all different & most of us have differing
>> >> views on things, but that is not a good reason to class everyone as
>> >> the same as the person who might have offended you.
>>
>> >> Mary just has a better way of saying it than I do:o)
>> >> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > to be perfectly honest, most americans are not really worth me
>> > expending any energy actually hating, they just don't deserve me
>> > spending that emotion on them, so guys please don't flatter yourselves
>> > thinking that you actually are worthy of my loathing because the vast
>> > majority aren't.
>>
>> > anyway, i really can't believe you all give a **** what I think of
>> > you, although it does amuse when you all get so worked about it,
>> > especially when that is really not what this newgroup is here for
>> > (discussion about cats in case anyone had forgotten)
>>
>> Take a Midol or something would you and get over it. It is getting
>> boring
>> already- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> what's a Midol? some bizarre pharamceutical preparation you need to
> take in order to cope with life on t'other side of the pond amongst
> all the rednecks and rampaging trigger happy gun-lovers? we have this
> thing called 'a nice cup of tea and a sit down', probably works just
> as well, if not better.
>
> please follow the link to understand what gives us brits our stiff
> upper lip and our dunkirk spirit
>
> http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/
>
>
> bookie
>

No it is a pill to get over your PMS that you seem to be having for the last
week or so

sheelagh
June 4th 07, 05:28 PM
On 4 Jun, 16:31, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 4 Jun, 05:40, "Matthew" > wrote:
> >> "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> >> > On 3 Jun, 19:06, sheelagh > wrote:
> >> >> On Jun 3, 6:35 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
>
> >> >> > bookie wrote:
> >> >> > > On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
>
> >> >> > > sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
> >> >> > > seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the
> >> >> > > world
> >> >> > > think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant
> >> >> > > warmongerers?
>
> >> >> > LOL - Say what you want. You're just jealous.
> >> >> > And besides Vietnam, I cannot think of any war in recent memory in
> >> >> > which
> >> >> > the Brits weren't fighting alongside the US - unless you include
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > Falklands War which was just another desperate attempt by the UK to
> >> >> > hold
> >> >> > onto the remains of their once mighty and vast empire. In this
> >> >> > case,
> >> >> > they were defending an island populated mainly by sheep.
>
> >> >> > > were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at you
> >> >> > > all
> >> >> > > and think you're all morons?
>
> >> >> > We laugh at you and statements like yours prove you're morons.
>
> >> >> > > ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
> >> >> > > brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a bit of a
> >> >> > > dig
> >> >> > > at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society as
> >> >> > > far
> >> >> > > from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>
> >> >> > That's because you're ignorant - Is it as blissful as you say?
>
> >> >> > > anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to be
> >> >> > > not
> >> >> > > even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you expect
> >> >> > > when
> >> >> > > you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>
> >> >> > Heh - you should take a good look in the mirror.
>
> >> >> > > dear oh dear oh dear- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> >> Fred...!
> >> >> Don't ruin my pixel picture of you....
>
> >> >> 1.If I had said it, does that make Bookie as bad as me?
> >> >> 2.Do you think we all hold the same views?
> >> >> 3.Does that mean if Bookie said so, It is so?
> >> >> 4.we all laugh about each other..Fact!
> >> >> 5.I would like to think that not all Americans are like one of our
> >> >> more tasteless posters from the USA....?
> >> >> 6.Does that mean if A USA troll posts something rude about me, that is
> >> >> ok, because I am not a USA citizen?
>
> >> >> 7.We could all learn something from this...
>
> >> >> How can you call Bookie for what she has to say when you are doing
> >> >> exactly the same thing? Personally, I don't care if you think we are
> >> >> all like that, because I know better. I don't "hate you" because you
> >> >> come from somewhere different than I do - & nor do I tar you with the
> >> >> same brush as someone who has made very disparaging remarks about me,
> >> >> or the country I live in, simply because that someone comes from the
> >> >> USA either......
>
> >> >> My point here is that we are all different & most of us have differing
> >> >> views on things, but that is not a good reason to class everyone as
> >> >> the same as the person who might have offended you.
>
> >> >> Mary just has a better way of saying it than I do:o)
> >> >> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> > to be perfectly honest, most americans are not really worth me
> >> > expending any energy actually hating, they just don't deserve me
> >> > spending that emotion on them, so guys please don't flatter yourselves
> >> > thinking that you actually are worthy of my loathing because the vast
> >> > majority aren't.
>
> >> > anyway, i really can't believe you all give a **** what I think of
> >> > you, although it does amuse when you all get so worked about it,
> >> > especially when that is really not what this newgroup is here for
> >> > (discussion about cats in case anyone had forgotten)
>
> >> Take a Midol or something would you and get over it. It is getting
> >> boring
> >> already- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > what's a Midol? some bizarre pharamceutical preparation you need to
> > take in order to cope with life on t'other side of the pond amongst
> > all the rednecks and rampaging trigger happy gun-lovers? we have this
> > thing called 'a nice cup of tea and a sit down', probably works just
> > as well, if not better.
>
> > please follow the link to understand what gives us brits our stiff
> > upper lip and our dunkirk spirit
>
> >http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/
>
> > bookie
>
> No it is a pill to get over your PMS that you seem to be having for the last
> week or so- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I have a feeling that it is nothing to do with PMs.
It's more to do with berating everyone who acts that way, rather than
just the British ones Matthew, my friend...

Do you think I might be right?
S.

Matthew
June 4th 07, 05:46 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On 4 Jun, 16:31, "Matthew" > wrote:
>> "bookie" > wrote in message
>>
>> oups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 4 Jun, 05:40, "Matthew" > wrote:
>> >> "bookie" > wrote in message
>>
>> ups.com...
>>
>> >> > On 3 Jun, 19:06, sheelagh > wrote:
>> >> >> On Jun 3, 6:35 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> > bookie wrote:
>> >> >> > > On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> > > sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
>> >> >> > > seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the
>> >> >> > > world
>> >> >> > > think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant
>> >> >> > > warmongerers?
>>
>> >> >> > LOL - Say what you want. You're just jealous.
>> >> >> > And besides Vietnam, I cannot think of any war in recent memory
>> >> >> > in
>> >> >> > which
>> >> >> > the Brits weren't fighting alongside the US - unless you
>> >> >> > include
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > Falklands War which was just another desperate attempt by the UK
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> > hold
>> >> >> > onto the remains of their once mighty and vast empire. In this
>> >> >> > case,
>> >> >> > they were defending an island populated mainly by sheep.
>>
>> >> >> > > were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at
>> >> >> > > you
>> >> >> > > all
>> >> >> > > and think you're all morons?
>>
>> >> >> > We laugh at you and statements like yours prove you're morons.
>>
>> >> >> > > ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
>> >> >> > > brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a bit
>> >> >> > > of a
>> >> >> > > dig
>> >> >> > > at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society
>> >> >> > > as
>> >> >> > > far
>> >> >> > > from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>>
>> >> >> > That's because you're ignorant - Is it as blissful as you say?
>>
>> >> >> > > anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to
>> >> >> > > be
>> >> >> > > not
>> >> >> > > even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you
>> >> >> > > expect
>> >> >> > > when
>> >> >> > > you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>>
>> >> >> > Heh - you should take a good look in the mirror.
>>
>> >> >> > > dear oh dear oh dear- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> >> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >> >> Fred...!
>> >> >> Don't ruin my pixel picture of you....
>>
>> >> >> 1.If I had said it, does that make Bookie as bad as me?
>> >> >> 2.Do you think we all hold the same views?
>> >> >> 3.Does that mean if Bookie said so, It is so?
>> >> >> 4.we all laugh about each other..Fact!
>> >> >> 5.I would like to think that not all Americans are like one of our
>> >> >> more tasteless posters from the USA....?
>> >> >> 6.Does that mean if A USA troll posts something rude about me, that
>> >> >> is
>> >> >> ok, because I am not a USA citizen?
>>
>> >> >> 7.We could all learn something from this...
>>
>> >> >> How can you call Bookie for what she has to say when you are doing
>> >> >> exactly the same thing? Personally, I don't care if you think we
>> >> >> are
>> >> >> all like that, because I know better. I don't "hate you" because
>> >> >> you
>> >> >> come from somewhere different than I do - & nor do I tar you with
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> same brush as someone who has made very disparaging remarks about
>> >> >> me,
>> >> >> or the country I live in, simply because that someone comes from
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> USA either......
>>
>> >> >> My point here is that we are all different & most of us have
>> >> >> differing
>> >> >> views on things, but that is not a good reason to class everyone as
>> >> >> the same as the person who might have offended you.
>>
>> >> >> Mary just has a better way of saying it than I do:o)
>> >> >> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >> > to be perfectly honest, most americans are not really worth me
>> >> > expending any energy actually hating, they just don't deserve me
>> >> > spending that emotion on them, so guys please don't flatter
>> >> > yourselves
>> >> > thinking that you actually are worthy of my loathing because the
>> >> > vast
>> >> > majority aren't.
>>
>> >> > anyway, i really can't believe you all give a **** what I think of
>> >> > you, although it does amuse when you all get so worked about it,
>> >> > especially when that is really not what this newgroup is here for
>> >> > (discussion about cats in case anyone had forgotten)
>>
>> >> Take a Midol or something would you and get over it. It is getting
>> >> boring
>> >> already- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > what's a Midol? some bizarre pharamceutical preparation you need to
>> > take in order to cope with life on t'other side of the pond amongst
>> > all the rednecks and rampaging trigger happy gun-lovers? we have this
>> > thing called 'a nice cup of tea and a sit down', probably works just
>> > as well, if not better.
>>
>> > please follow the link to understand what gives us brits our stiff
>> > upper lip and our dunkirk spirit
>>
>> >http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/
>>
>> > bookie
>>
>> No it is a pill to get over your PMS that you seem to be having for the
>> last
>> week or so- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I have a feeling that it is nothing to do with PMs.
> It's more to do with berating everyone who acts that way, rather than
> just the British ones Matthew, my friend...
>
> Do you think I might be right?
> S.

Might be but no reason to take it out on all of us and group us in a hate
mongrel group

But since it has been going on for less than a week I am leaning towards the
needing of Midol

bookie
June 4th 07, 11:50 PM
On 4 Jun, 17:46, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 4 Jun, 16:31, "Matthew" > wrote:
> >> "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
> >> > On 4 Jun, 05:40, "Matthew" > wrote:
> >> >> "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> >> ups.com...
>
> >> >> > On 3 Jun, 19:06, sheelagh > wrote:
> >> >> >> On Jun 3, 6:35 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
>
> >> >> >> > bookie wrote:
> >> >> >> > > On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
>
> >> >> >> > > sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
> >> >> >> > > seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the
> >> >> >> > > world
> >> >> >> > > think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant
> >> >> >> > > warmongerers?
>
> >> >> >> > LOL - Say what you want. You're just jealous.
> >> >> >> > And besides Vietnam, I cannot think of any war in recent memory
> >> >> >> > in
> >> >> >> > which
> >> >> >> > the Brits weren't fighting alongside the US - unless you
> >> >> >> > include
> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > Falklands War which was just another desperate attempt by the UK
> >> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> > hold
> >> >> >> > onto the remains of their once mighty and vast empire. In this
> >> >> >> > case,
> >> >> >> > they were defending an island populated mainly by sheep.
>
> >> >> >> > > were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at
> >> >> >> > > you
> >> >> >> > > all
> >> >> >> > > and think you're all morons?
>
> >> >> >> > We laugh at you and statements like yours prove you're morons.
>
> >> >> >> > > ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
> >> >> >> > > brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a bit
> >> >> >> > > of a
> >> >> >> > > dig
> >> >> >> > > at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society
> >> >> >> > > as
> >> >> >> > > far
> >> >> >> > > from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>
> >> >> >> > That's because you're ignorant - Is it as blissful as you say?
>
> >> >> >> > > anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to
> >> >> >> > > be
> >> >> >> > > not
> >> >> >> > > even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you
> >> >> >> > > expect
> >> >> >> > > when
> >> >> >> > > you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>
> >> >> >> > Heh - you should take a good look in the mirror.
>
> >> >> >> > > dear oh dear oh dear- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> >> >> Fred...!
> >> >> >> Don't ruin my pixel picture of you....
>
> >> >> >> 1.If I had said it, does that make Bookie as bad as me?
> >> >> >> 2.Do you think we all hold the same views?
> >> >> >> 3.Does that mean if Bookie said so, It is so?
> >> >> >> 4.we all laugh about each other..Fact!
> >> >> >> 5.I would like to think that not all Americans are like one of our
> >> >> >> more tasteless posters from the USA....?
> >> >> >> 6.Does that mean if A USA troll posts something rude about me, that
> >> >> >> is
> >> >> >> ok, because I am not a USA citizen?
>
> >> >> >> 7.We could all learn something from this...
>
> >> >> >> How can you call Bookie for what she has to say when you are doing
> >> >> >> exactly the same thing? Personally, I don't care if you think we
> >> >> >> are
> >> >> >> all like that, because I know better. I don't "hate you" because
> >> >> >> you
> >> >> >> come from somewhere different than I do - & nor do I tar you with
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> same brush as someone who has made very disparaging remarks about
> >> >> >> me,
> >> >> >> or the country I live in, simply because that someone comes from
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> USA either......
>
> >> >> >> My point here is that we are all different & most of us have
> >> >> >> differing
> >> >> >> views on things, but that is not a good reason to class everyone as
> >> >> >> the same as the person who might have offended you.
>
> >> >> >> Mary just has a better way of saying it than I do:o)
> >> >> >> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> >> > to be perfectly honest, most americans are not really worth me
> >> >> > expending any energy actually hating, they just don't deserve me
> >> >> > spending that emotion on them, so guys please don't flatter
> >> >> > yourselves
> >> >> > thinking that you actually are worthy of my loathing because the
> >> >> > vast
> >> >> > majority aren't.
>
> >> >> > anyway, i really can't believe you all give a **** what I think of
> >> >> > you, although it does amuse when you all get so worked about it,
> >> >> > especially when that is really not what this newgroup is here for
> >> >> > (discussion about cats in case anyone had forgotten)
>
> >> >> Take a Midol or something would you and get over it. It is getting
> >> >> boring
> >> >> already- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> > what's a Midol? some bizarre pharamceutical preparation you need to
> >> > take in order to cope with life on t'other side of the pond amongst
> >> > all the rednecks and rampaging trigger happy gun-lovers? we have this
> >> > thing called 'a nice cup of tea and a sit down', probably works just
> >> > as well, if not better.
>
> >> > please follow the link to understand what gives us brits our stiff
> >> > upper lip and our dunkirk spirit
>
> >> >http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/
>
> >> > bookie
>
> >> No it is a pill to get over your PMS that you seem to be having for the
> >> last
> >> week or so- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > I have a feeling that it is nothing to do with PMs.
> > It's more to do with berating everyone who acts that way, rather than
> > just the British ones Matthew, my friend...
>
> > Do you think I might be right?
> > S.
>
> Might be but no reason to take it out on all of us and group us in a hate
> mongrel group
>
> But since it has been going on for less than a week I am leaning towards the
> needing of Midol- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

i don't get PMS, just irked by cretinous yanks who can't admit to the
flaws in their own country

Matthew
June 5th 07, 12:15 AM
"bookie" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On 4 Jun, 17:46, "Matthew" > wrote:
>> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>>
>> ups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 4 Jun, 16:31, "Matthew" > wrote:
>> >> "bookie" > wrote in message
>>
>> oups.com...
>>
>> >> > On 4 Jun, 05:40, "Matthew" > wrote:
>> >> >> "bookie" > wrote in message
>>
>> >> ups.com...
>>
>> >> >> > On 3 Jun, 19:06, sheelagh > wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Jun 3, 6:35 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> > bookie wrote:
>> >> >> >> > > On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> > > sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
>> >> >> >> > > seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of
>> >> >> >> > > the
>> >> >> >> > > world
>> >> >> >> > > think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant
>> >> >> >> > > warmongerers?
>>
>> >> >> >> > LOL - Say what you want. You're just jealous.
>> >> >> >> > And besides Vietnam, I cannot think of any war in recent
>> >> >> >> > memory
>> >> >> >> > in
>> >> >> >> > which
>> >> >> >> > the Brits weren't fighting alongside the US - unless you
>> >> >> >> > include
>> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> > Falklands War which was just another desperate attempt by the
>> >> >> >> > UK
>> >> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >> > hold
>> >> >> >> > onto the remains of their once mighty and vast empire. In
>> >> >> >> > this
>> >> >> >> > case,
>> >> >> >> > they were defending an island populated mainly by sheep.
>>
>> >> >> >> > > were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs
>> >> >> >> > > at
>> >> >> >> > > you
>> >> >> >> > > all
>> >> >> >> > > and think you're all morons?
>>
>> >> >> >> > We laugh at you and statements like yours prove you're morons.
>>
>> >> >> >> > > ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
>> >> >> >> > > brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a
>> >> >> >> > > bit
>> >> >> >> > > of a
>> >> >> >> > > dig
>> >> >> >> > > at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our
>> >> >> >> > > society
>> >> >> >> > > as
>> >> >> >> > > far
>> >> >> >> > > from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>>
>> >> >> >> > That's because you're ignorant - Is it as blissful as you say?
>>
>> >> >> >> > > anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them
>> >> >> >> > > to
>> >> >> >> > > be
>> >> >> >> > > not
>> >> >> >> > > even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you
>> >> >> >> > > expect
>> >> >> >> > > when
>> >> >> >> > > you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>>
>> >> >> >> > Heh - you should take a good look in the mirror.
>>
>> >> >> >> > > dear oh dear oh dear- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> >> >> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >> >> >> Fred...!
>> >> >> >> Don't ruin my pixel picture of you....
>>
>> >> >> >> 1.If I had said it, does that make Bookie as bad as me?
>> >> >> >> 2.Do you think we all hold the same views?
>> >> >> >> 3.Does that mean if Bookie said so, It is so?
>> >> >> >> 4.we all laugh about each other..Fact!
>> >> >> >> 5.I would like to think that not all Americans are like one of
>> >> >> >> our
>> >> >> >> more tasteless posters from the USA....?
>> >> >> >> 6.Does that mean if A USA troll posts something rude about me,
>> >> >> >> that
>> >> >> >> is
>> >> >> >> ok, because I am not a USA citizen?
>>
>> >> >> >> 7.We could all learn something from this...
>>
>> >> >> >> How can you call Bookie for what she has to say when you are
>> >> >> >> doing
>> >> >> >> exactly the same thing? Personally, I don't care if you think we
>> >> >> >> are
>> >> >> >> all like that, because I know better. I don't "hate you" because
>> >> >> >> you
>> >> >> >> come from somewhere different than I do - & nor do I tar you
>> >> >> >> with
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> same brush as someone who has made very disparaging remarks
>> >> >> >> about
>> >> >> >> me,
>> >> >> >> or the country I live in, simply because that someone comes from
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> USA either......
>>
>> >> >> >> My point here is that we are all different & most of us have
>> >> >> >> differing
>> >> >> >> views on things, but that is not a good reason to class everyone
>> >> >> >> as
>> >> >> >> the same as the person who might have offended you.
>>
>> >> >> >> Mary just has a better way of saying it than I do:o)
>> >> >> >> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >> >> > to be perfectly honest, most americans are not really worth me
>> >> >> > expending any energy actually hating, they just don't deserve me
>> >> >> > spending that emotion on them, so guys please don't flatter
>> >> >> > yourselves
>> >> >> > thinking that you actually are worthy of my loathing because the
>> >> >> > vast
>> >> >> > majority aren't.
>>
>> >> >> > anyway, i really can't believe you all give a **** what I think
>> >> >> > of
>> >> >> > you, although it does amuse when you all get so worked about it,
>> >> >> > especially when that is really not what this newgroup is here for
>> >> >> > (discussion about cats in case anyone had forgotten)
>>
>> >> >> Take a Midol or something would you and get over it. It is getting
>> >> >> boring
>> >> >> already- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >> > what's a Midol? some bizarre pharamceutical preparation you need to
>> >> > take in order to cope with life on t'other side of the pond amongst
>> >> > all the rednecks and rampaging trigger happy gun-lovers? we have
>> >> > this
>> >> > thing called 'a nice cup of tea and a sit down', probably works just
>> >> > as well, if not better.
>>
>> >> > please follow the link to understand what gives us brits our stiff
>> >> > upper lip and our dunkirk spirit
>>
>> >> >http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/
>>
>> >> > bookie
>>
>> >> No it is a pill to get over your PMS that you seem to be having for
>> >> the
>> >> last
>> >> week or so- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > I have a feeling that it is nothing to do with PMs.
>> > It's more to do with berating everyone who acts that way, rather than
>> > just the British ones Matthew, my friend...
>>
>> > Do you think I might be right?
>> > S.
>>
>> Might be but no reason to take it out on all of us and group us in a hate
>> mongrel group
>>
>> But since it has been going on for less than a week I am leaning towards
>> the
>> needing of Midol- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> i don't get PMS, just irked by cretinous yanks who can't admit to the
> flaws in their own country
>

You are acting like it

Yes every country is screwed up specially this one but ain't that the pot
calling the kettle black for the rest of it

You are old enough to know better to know that sex, politics and religion
should never even be discussed among friends unless you want to make enemies
with every word that is typed or spoken

Now get over it and move on for your country is just [email protected] up as the one I
live in as everyone else's is.

Lets every one end this BS and get over it for the trolls are circling and
enjoying the spectacle

reeper
June 5th 07, 01:42 AM
On Jun 4, 7:15 pm, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 4 Jun, 17:46, "Matthew" > wrote:
> >> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> >> > On 4 Jun, 16:31, "Matthew" > wrote:
> >> >> "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> >> oups.com...
>
> >> >> > On 4 Jun, 05:40, "Matthew" > wrote:
> >> >> >> "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> >> >> ups.com...
>
> >> >> >> > On 3 Jun, 19:06, sheelagh > wrote:
> >> >> >> >> On Jun 3, 6:35 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >> > bookie wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > > On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >> > > sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
> >> >> >> >> > > seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of
> >> >> >> >> > > the
> >> >> >> >> > > world
> >> >> >> >> > > think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant
> >> >> >> >> > > warmongerers?
>
> >> >> >> >> > LOL - Say what you want. You're just jealous.
> >> >> >> >> > And besides Vietnam, I cannot think of any war in recent
> >> >> >> >> > memory
> >> >> >> >> > in
> >> >> >> >> > which
> >> >> >> >> > the Brits weren't fighting alongside the US - unless you
> >> >> >> >> > include
> >> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> >> > Falklands War which was just another desperate attempt by the
> >> >> >> >> > UK
> >> >> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> >> > hold
> >> >> >> >> > onto the remains of their once mighty and vast empire. In
> >> >> >> >> > this
> >> >> >> >> > case,
> >> >> >> >> > they were defending an island populated mainly by sheep.
>
> >> >> >> >> > > were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs
> >> >> >> >> > > at
> >> >> >> >> > > you
> >> >> >> >> > > all
> >> >> >> >> > > and think you're all morons?
>
> >> >> >> >> > We laugh at you and statements like yours prove you're morons.
>
> >> >> >> >> > > ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
> >> >> >> >> > > brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a
> >> >> >> >> > > bit
> >> >> >> >> > > of a
> >> >> >> >> > > dig
> >> >> >> >> > > at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our
> >> >> >> >> > > society
> >> >> >> >> > > as
> >> >> >> >> > > far
> >> >> >> >> > > from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>
> >> >> >> >> > That's because you're ignorant - Is it as blissful as you say?
>
> >> >> >> >> > > anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them
> >> >> >> >> > > to
> >> >> >> >> > > be
> >> >> >> >> > > not
> >> >> >> >> > > even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you
> >> >> >> >> > > expect
> >> >> >> >> > > when
> >> >> >> >> > > you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>
> >> >> >> >> > Heh - you should take a good look in the mirror.
>
> >> >> >> >> > > dear oh dear oh dear- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> >> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> >> >> >> Fred...!
> >> >> >> >> Don't ruin my pixel picture of you....
>
> >> >> >> >> 1.If I had said it, does that make Bookie as bad as me?
> >> >> >> >> 2.Do you think we all hold the same views?
> >> >> >> >> 3.Does that mean if Bookie said so, It is so?
> >> >> >> >> 4.we all laugh about each other..Fact!
> >> >> >> >> 5.I would like to think that not all Americans are like one of
> >> >> >> >> our
> >> >> >> >> more tasteless posters from the USA....?
> >> >> >> >> 6.Does that mean if A USA troll posts something rude about me,
> >> >> >> >> that
> >> >> >> >> is
> >> >> >> >> ok, because I am not a USA citizen?
>
> >> >> >> >> 7.We could all learn something from this...
>
> >> >> >> >> How can you call Bookie for what she has to say when you are
> >> >> >> >> doing
> >> >> >> >> exactly the same thing? Personally, I don't care if you think we
> >> >> >> >> are
> >> >> >> >> all like that, because I know better. I don't "hate you" because
> >> >> >> >> you
> >> >> >> >> come from somewhere different than I do - & nor do I tar you
> >> >> >> >> with
> >> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >> same brush as someone who has made very disparaging remarks
> >> >> >> >> about
> >> >> >> >> me,
> >> >> >> >> or the country I live in, simply because that someone comes from
> >> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >> USA either......
>
> >> >> >> >> My point here is that we are all different & most of us have
> >> >> >> >> differing
> >> >> >> >> views on things, but that is not a good reason to class everyone
> >> >> >> >> as
> >> >> >> >> the same as the person who might have offended you.
>
> >> >> >> >> Mary just has a better way of saying it than I do:o)
> >> >> >> >> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> >> >> > to be perfectly honest, most americans are not really worth me
> >> >> >> > expending any energy actually hating, they just don't deserve me
> >> >> >> > spending that emotion on them, so guys please don't flatter
> >> >> >> > yourselves
> >> >> >> > thinking that you actually are worthy of my loathing because the
> >> >> >> > vast
> >> >> >> > majority aren't.
>
> >> >> >> > anyway, i really can't believe you all give a **** what I think
> >> >> >> > of
> >> >> >> > you, although it does amuse when you all get so worked about it,
> >> >> >> > especially when that is really not what this newgroup is here for
> >> >> >> > (discussion about cats in case anyone had forgotten)
>
> >> >> >> Take a Midol or something would you and get over it. It is getting
> >> >> >> boring
> >> >> >> already- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> >> > what's a Midol? some bizarre pharamceutical preparation you need to
> >> >> > take in order to cope with life on t'other side of the pond amongst
> >> >> > all the rednecks and rampaging trigger happy gun-lovers? we have
> >> >> > this
> >> >> > thing called 'a nice cup of tea and a sit down', probably works just
> >> >> > as well, if not better.
>
> >> >> > please follow the link to understand what gives us brits our stiff
> >> >> > upper lip and our dunkirk spirit
>
> >> >> >http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/
>
> >> >> > bookie
>
> >> >> No it is a pill to get over your PMS that you seem to be having for
> >> >> the
> >> >> last
> >> >> week or so- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> > I have a feeling that it is nothing to do with PMs.
> >> > It's more to do with berating everyone who acts that way, rather than
> >> > just the British ones Matthew, my friend...
>
> >> > Do you think I might be right?
> >> > S.
>
> >> Might be but no reason to take it out on all of us and group us in a hate
> >> mongrel group
>
> >> But since it has been going on for less than a week I am leaning towards
> >> the
> >> needing of Midol- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > i don't get PMS, just irked by cretinous yanks who can't admit to the
> > flaws in their own country
>
> You are acting like it
>
> Yes every country is screwed up specially this one but ain't that the pot
> calling the kettle black for the rest of it
>
> You are old enough to know better to know that sex, politics and religion
> should never even be discussed among friends unless you want to make enemies
> with every word that is typed or spoken
>
> Now get over it and move on for your country is just [email protected] up as the one I
> live in as everyone else's is.
>
> Lets every one end this BS and get over it for the trolls are circling and
> enjoying the spectacle- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

am I detecting "mellow" ?

Charlie Wilkes
June 5th 07, 01:48 AM
On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 19:15:33 -0400, "Matthew"
> wrote:

>
>Now get over it and move on for your country is just [email protected] up as the one I
>live in as everyone else's is.
>
You might remind Ms. Bookie of the $$$ billions of U.S. military aid
that protects Britain's shores, now that the British navy has gone
the way of the Dodo Bird.

It's American taxpayers like you and me, Matthew, who cough up the
money that keeps Bookie safe and warm whilst she composes her ugly
tirades. Deep down inside, she knows that, and that is what accounts
for her spiteful tone.

Charlie

reeper
June 5th 07, 01:51 AM
On Jun 4, 8:48 pm, Charlie Wilkes >
wrote:

> You might remind Ms. Bookie of the $$$ billions of U.S. military aid
> that protects Britain's shores, now that the British navy has gone
> the way of the Dodo Bird.
>
> It's American taxpayers like you and me, Matthew, who cough up the
> money that keeps Bookie safe and warm whilst she composes her ugly
> tirades. Deep down inside, she knows that, and that is what accounts
> for her spiteful tone.
>
> Charlie

excellent point!

I've come to believe nobody messes with England because of us

you mess with them, you get us with the package

you mess with us, you also get Isreal with the package

boom boom out go the lights

bookie
June 5th 07, 02:20 AM
On 5 Jun, 00:15, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 4 Jun, 17:46, "Matthew" > wrote:
> >> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> >> > On 4 Jun, 16:31, "Matthew" > wrote:
> >> >> "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> >> oups.com...
>
> >> >> > On 4 Jun, 05:40, "Matthew" > wrote:
> >> >> >> "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> >> >> ups.com...
>
> >> >> >> > On 3 Jun, 19:06, sheelagh > wrote:
> >> >> >> >> On Jun 3, 6:35 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >> > bookie wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > > On 2 Jun, 04:27, Lis > wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >> > > sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
> >> >> >> >> > > seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of
> >> >> >> >> > > the
> >> >> >> >> > > world
> >> >> >> >> > > think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant
> >> >> >> >> > > warmongerers?
>
> >> >> >> >> > LOL - Say what you want. You're just jealous.
> >> >> >> >> > And besides Vietnam, I cannot think of any war in recent
> >> >> >> >> > memory
> >> >> >> >> > in
> >> >> >> >> > which
> >> >> >> >> > the Brits weren't fighting alongside the US - unless you
> >> >> >> >> > include
> >> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> >> > Falklands War which was just another desperate attempt by the
> >> >> >> >> > UK
> >> >> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> >> > hold
> >> >> >> >> > onto the remains of their once mighty and vast empire. In
> >> >> >> >> > this
> >> >> >> >> > case,
> >> >> >> >> > they were defending an island populated mainly by sheep.
>
> >> >> >> >> > > were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs
> >> >> >> >> > > at
> >> >> >> >> > > you
> >> >> >> >> > > all
> >> >> >> >> > > and think you're all morons?
>
> >> >> >> >> > We laugh at you and statements like yours prove you're morons.
>
> >> >> >> >> > > ignorance is bliss isn't it? at least we
> >> >> >> >> > > brits can laugh at ourselves when required, we can take a
> >> >> >> >> > > bit
> >> >> >> >> > > of a
> >> >> >> >> > > dig
> >> >> >> >> > > at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our
> >> >> >> >> > > society
> >> >> >> >> > > as
> >> >> >> >> > > far
> >> >> >> >> > > from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>
> >> >> >> >> > That's because you're ignorant - Is it as blissful as you say?
>
> >> >> >> >> > > anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them
> >> >> >> >> > > to
> >> >> >> >> > > be
> >> >> >> >> > > not
> >> >> >> >> > > even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you
> >> >> >> >> > > expect
> >> >> >> >> > > when
> >> >> >> >> > > you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>
> >> >> >> >> > Heh - you should take a good look in the mirror.
>
> >> >> >> >> > > dear oh dear oh dear- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> >> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> >> >> >> Fred...!
> >> >> >> >> Don't ruin my pixel picture of you....
>
> >> >> >> >> 1.If I had said it, does that make Bookie as bad as me?
> >> >> >> >> 2.Do you think we all hold the same views?
> >> >> >> >> 3.Does that mean if Bookie said so, It is so?
> >> >> >> >> 4.we all laugh about each other..Fact!
> >> >> >> >> 5.I would like to think that not all Americans are like one of
> >> >> >> >> our
> >> >> >> >> more tasteless posters from the USA....?
> >> >> >> >> 6.Does that mean if A USA troll posts something rude about me,
> >> >> >> >> that
> >> >> >> >> is
> >> >> >> >> ok, because I am not a USA citizen?
>
> >> >> >> >> 7.We could all learn something from this...
>
> >> >> >> >> How can you call Bookie for what she has to say when you are
> >> >> >> >> doing
> >> >> >> >> exactly the same thing? Personally, I don't care if you think we
> >> >> >> >> are
> >> >> >> >> all like that, because I know better. I don't "hate you" because
> >> >> >> >> you
> >> >> >> >> come from somewhere different than I do - & nor do I tar you
> >> >> >> >> with
> >> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >> same brush as someone who has made very disparaging remarks
> >> >> >> >> about
> >> >> >> >> me,
> >> >> >> >> or the country I live in, simply because that someone comes from
> >> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >> USA either......
>
> >> >> >> >> My point here is that we are all different & most of us have
> >> >> >> >> differing
> >> >> >> >> views on things, but that is not a good reason to class everyone
> >> >> >> >> as
> >> >> >> >> the same as the person who might have offended you.
>
> >> >> >> >> Mary just has a better way of saying it than I do:o)
> >> >> >> >> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> >> >> > to be perfectly honest, most americans are not really worth me
> >> >> >> > expending any energy actually hating, they just don't deserve me
> >> >> >> > spending that emotion on them, so guys please don't flatter
> >> >> >> > yourselves
> >> >> >> > thinking that you actually are worthy of my loathing because the
> >> >> >> > vast
> >> >> >> > majority aren't.
>
> >> >> >> > anyway, i really can't believe you all give a **** what I think
> >> >> >> > of
> >> >> >> > you, although it does amuse when you all get so worked about it,
> >> >> >> > especially when that is really not what this newgroup is here for
> >> >> >> > (discussion about cats in case anyone had forgotten)
>
> >> >> >> Take a Midol or something would you and get over it. It is getting
> >> >> >> boring
> >> >> >> already- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> >> > what's a Midol? some bizarre pharamceutical preparation you need to
> >> >> > take in order to cope with life on t'other side of the pond amongst
> >> >> > all the rednecks and rampaging trigger happy gun-lovers? we have
> >> >> > this
> >> >> > thing called 'a nice cup of tea and a sit down', probably works just
> >> >> > as well, if not better.
>
> >> >> > please follow the link to understand what gives us brits our stiff
> >> >> > upper lip and our dunkirk spirit
>
> >> >> >http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/
>
> >> >> > bookie
>
> >> >> No it is a pill to get over your PMS that you seem to be having for
> >> >> the
> >> >> last
> >> >> week or so- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> > I have a feeling that it is nothing to do with PMs.
> >> > It's more to do with berating everyone who acts that way, rather than
> >> > just the British ones Matthew, my friend...
>
> >> > Do you think I might be right?
> >> > S.
>
> >> Might be but no reason to take it out on all of us and group us in a hate
> >> mongrel group
>
> >> But since it has been going on for less than a week I am leaning towards
> >> the
> >> needing of Midol- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > i don't get PMS, just irked by cretinous yanks who can't admit to the
> > flaws in their own country
>
> You are acting like it
>
> Yes every country is screwed up specially this one but ain't that the pot
> calling the kettle black for the rest of it
>
> You are old enough to know better to know that sex, politics and religion
> should never even be discussed among friends unless you want to make enemies
> with every word that is typed or spoken
>
> Now get over it and move on for your country is just [email protected] up as the one I
> live in as everyone else's is.
>
> Lets every one end this BS and get over it for the trolls are circling and
> enjoying the spectacle- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

i would be the first to admit my country is screwed up, we have lots
of problems in GB, but why can't you yanks admit to yours?
and why do you lot always immediately jump up and start screaming
whenever anyone points out the many shortcoming of your nation and
it's people? I think that is what myself and sheelagh want to know,
not much to ask is it?

bookie
June 5th 07, 02:28 AM
On 5 Jun, 01:51, reeper > wrote:
> On Jun 4, 8:48 pm, Charlie Wilkes >
> wrote:
>
> > You might remind Ms. Bookie of the $$$ billions of U.S. military aid
> > that protects Britain's shores, now that the British navy has gone
> > the way of the Dodo Bird.
>
> > It's American taxpayers like you and me, Matthew, who cough up the
> > money that keeps Bookie safe and warm whilst she composes her ugly
> > tirades. Deep down inside, she knows that, and that is what accounts
> > for her spiteful tone.
>
> > Charlie
>
> excellent point!
>
> I've come to believe nobody messes with England because of us
>
> you mess with them, you get us with the package
>
> you mess with us, you also get Isreal with the package
>
> boom boom out go the lights

the only reason we need any protecting (which you don't actually do
thank you very much) is because of the enemies that you bloody yanks
have made across the world with your rabid desire to control
everythign on this planet. If you guys did not feel the need to pick
fights in the middle east all the bloody time then we would not need
protecting from YOUR enemies who only target britain because they ally
us with you lot.

basically if you guys stayed in your own country and stopped
interfering with the rest of the world and trying to wipe anything and
everything in the world outside the good old US of A that you don't
understand (eg other religions and cultures) then the rest of the
world would be a much safer place to live in.
don't even try to disagree because you know it is true

Lynne
June 5th 07, 02:32 AM
on Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:46:45 GMT, "Matthew"
> wrote:

> But since it has been going on for less than a week I am leaning
> towards the needing of Midol

Less than a week?? I beg to differ. It's been going on since she got
here, which is why I killfiled her shortly thereafter.

She's narrow minded and bitter. I don't think there is a pill for that. I
suspect what she really needs is a good screw, but it's obvious why she
isn't getting any.

--
Lynne

Cheryl
June 5th 07, 02:50 AM
On Mon 04 Jun 2007 09:32:08p, Lynne wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
. 97.142>:

> on Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:46:45 GMT, "Matthew"
> > wrote:
>
>> But since it has been going on for less than a week I am
>> leaning towards the needing of Midol
>
> Less than a week?? I beg to differ. It's been going on since
> she got here, which is why I killfiled her shortly thereafter.
>
> She's narrow minded and bitter. I don't think there is a pill
> for that. I suspect what she really needs is a good screw, but
> it's obvious why she isn't getting any.
>

*choke* *snort*

--
Cheryl

Lynne
June 5th 07, 02:53 AM
on Tue, 05 Jun 2007 00:48:36 GMT, Charlie Wilkes
> wrote:

> You might remind Ms. Bookie of the $$$ billions of U.S. military aid
> that protects Britain's shores, now that the British navy has gone
> the way of the Dodo Bird.
>
> It's American taxpayers like you and me, Matthew, who cough up the
> money that keeps Bookie safe and warm whilst she composes her ugly
> tirades. Deep down inside, she knows that, and that is what accounts
> for her spiteful tone.

If that wretched little island wasn't so damned bleak and damp, we would
have wiped out the natives and built vacation homes on it long ago.

--
Lynne

Lilah Morgan
June 5th 07, 03:19 AM
"bookie" > wrote in message
oups.com...

> i would be the first to admit my country is screwed up, we have lots
> of problems in GB, but why can't you yanks admit to yours?
> and why do you lot always immediately jump up and start screaming
> whenever anyone points out the many shortcoming of your nation and
> it's people? I think that is what myself and sheelagh want to know,
> not much to ask is it?

Why do you keep A: insist on calling Americans Yanks?, B: complain that
there's not enough cat talk, then don't talk about them yourself, and C:
seemed to forget that quite a few of us Americans have admitted our country
has problems, and have not 'jumped up and started screaming' when someone
from another country mentions them as well. But this:

"to be perfectly honest, most americans are not really worth me expending
any energy actually hating, they just don't deserve me spending that emotion
on them, so guys please don't flatter yourselves thinking that you actually
are worthy of my loathing because the vast majority aren't."

is not merely pointing out shortcomings of the US. There is no mention of
what the shortcomings are, in point of fact. I really don't know that much
about life in the UK, only visited England once for a few days, and don't
pay attention to the news much lately, so I don't know enough to know about
what problems there are, which is why my view of your country is better than
the one I have of my own, because I know precisely what the problems are
here. If I had lived in the UK all my life, no doubt I would think it was
screwed up too. It's all just a matter of personal experience.

Matthew
June 5th 07, 04:31 AM
"Charlie Wilkes" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 19:15:33 -0400, "Matthew"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>Now get over it and move on for your country is just [email protected] up as the one
>>I
>>live in as everyone else's is.
>>
> You might remind Ms. Bookie of the $$$ billions of U.S. military aid
> that protects Britain's shores, now that the British navy has gone
> the way of the Dodo Bird.
>
> It's American taxpayers like you and me, Matthew, who cough up the
> money that keeps Bookie safe and warm whilst she composes her ugly
> tirades. Deep down inside, she knows that, and that is what accounts
> for her spiteful tone.
>
> Charlie

This is what I think about the whole situation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_apJ66f3Cs

sheelagh
June 5th 07, 11:40 AM
On 5 Jun, 00:15, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 4 Jun, 17:46, "Matthew" > wrote:
> >> "sheelagh" > wrote in message


>
> >> >> >> > On 3 Jun, 19:06, sheelagh > wrote:
> >> >> >> >> On Jun 3, 6:35 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:

> >> >> >> >> > > dear oh dear oh dear- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> >> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> >> >> >> Fred...!
> >> >> >> >> Don't ruin my pixel picture of you....
>
> >> >> >> >> 1.If I had said it, does that make Bookie as bad as me?
> >> >> >> >> 2.Do you think we all hold the same views?
> >> >> >> >> 3.Does that mean if Bookie said so, It is so?
> >> >> >> >> 4.we all laugh about each other..Fact!
> >> >> >> >> 5.I would like to think that not all Americans are like one of
> >> >> >> >> "our"
> >> >> >> >> more tasteless posters from the USA....?
> >> >> >> >> 6.Does that mean if A USA troll posts something rude about me,
> >> >> >> >> that
> >> >> >> >> is
> >> >> >> >> ok, because I am not a USA citizen?
>
> >> >> >> >> 7.We could all learn something from this...
>
> >> >> >> >> How can you call Bookie for what she has to say when you are
> >> >> >> >> doing
> >> >> >> >> exactly the same thing? Personally, I don't care if you think we
> >> >> >> >> are
> >> >> >> >> all like that, because I know better. I don't "hate you" because
> >> >> >> >> you
> >> >> >> >> come from somewhere different than I do - & nor do I tar you
> >> >> >> >> with
> >> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >> same brush as someone who has made very disparaging remarks
> >> >> >> >> about
> >> >> >> >> me,
> >> >> >> >> or the country I live in, simply because that someone comes from
> >> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >> USA either......
>
> >> >> >> >> My point here is that we are all different & most of us have
> >> >> >> >> differing
> >> >> >> >> views on things, but that is not a good reason to class everyone
> >> >> >> >> as
> >> >> >> >> the same as the person who might have offended you.
>
> >> >> >> >> Mary just has a better way of saying it than I do:o)
> >> >> >> >> S;o)- Hide quoted text -

> >> >> >> Take a Midol or something would you and get over it. It is getting
> >> >> >> boring
> >> >> >> already- Hide quoted text -

>
> >> >> No it is a pill to get over your PMS that you seem to be having for
> >> >> the
> >> >> last
> >> >> week
>
-
>
> >> > I have a feeling that it is nothing to do with PMs.
> >> > It's more to do with berating everyone who acts that way, rather than
> >> > just the British ones Matthew, my friend...
>
> >> > Do you think I might be right?
> >> > S.
>
> >> Might be but no reason to take it out on all of us and group us in a hate
> >> mongrel group
>
> >> But since it has been going on for less than a week I am leaning towards
> >> the
> >> needing of Midol- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > i don't get PMS, just irked by cretinous yanks who can't admit to the
> > flaws in their own country
>
> You are acting like it
>
> Yes every country is screwed up specially this one but ain't that the pot
> calling the kettle black for the rest of it
>
> You are old enough to know better to know that sex, politics and religion
> should never even be discussed among friends unless you want to make enemies
> with every word that is typed or spoken
>
> Now get over it and move on for your country is just [email protected] up as the one I
> live in as everyone else's is.
>
> Lets every one end this BS and get over it for the trolls are circling and
> enjoying the spectacle- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



> Yes every country is screwed up specially this one but ain't that the pot
> calling the kettle black for the rest of it
>
> You are old enough to know better to know that sex, politics and religion
> should never even be discussed among friends unless you want to make enemies
> with every word that is typed or spoken
>
> Now get over it and move on for your country is just [email protected] up as the one I
> live in as everyone Else's is.
>
> Lets every one end this BS and get over it for the trolls are circling and
> enjoying the spectacle-

Matthew, I can't remember saying anything offensive to anyone
here...yet which ever post I go to, I find what I have said typed
there. I have sniped the quotes to show you exactly what I said, &
who to as well......

( the only bit I didn't snip was the conversation between yourself &
Bookie, because that was relevant to this post, because you both
contributed to it in this particular post).......

The words Pot calling the kettle black is one of my most often stated
comments, because quite often I don't feel that I do have the right to
call anyone else names, because I am guilty of it myself...Yet, as I
read through most peoples posts, I am finding myself quoted in almost
every post about this issue. I don't recall bringing politics,
religion, or sex into this issue. The only recollection I have, was a
comment I made about our own leader, Tony Blair in the UK..(who I
didn't vote for & dislike him for who he is & his values... nothing
else!!).....

I have read & re read everything I typed again & again, but I still
can't find anything that I consider derogatory in my post, to warrant
quoting me as doing any of the activities to which I seem to be
accused of.

I have already apologized to MaryL, for not clarifying what I meant
when I said that I was shocked that there was no help for any pets in
need of emergency care, & explained exactly what I meant through my
own research.( I will go back and number the posts that I mean after
this post, so that you can check for yourself mate)....

The only thing that I can think of is that I am in hot water for
trying to diffuse the bad feeling between Fred & Bookie..I have
inspected it again & all I can see are a few questions that were aimed
at trying to say, we all have differing opinions, & that you can't
blame someone else for what someone else thinks & feels....(ie: if
that is how Bookie feels, then it is- there is nothing I can do to
change her mind..) We all have our own values, & I believe that we
have differing opinions on certain subjects. If I have a problem then
it is "my" problem to sort out with the person concerned..Not Bookie's
if you see what I mean? I also stated that I didn't think PMS was
Bookies problem in this instance. Rather it was more to do with
personal values. If you wish to contact me personally, I would be only
too happy to explain it to you. I have no intention of dragging the
group down any further!!
I very much hope that this explains some of the questions left
hanging, & would much prefer that we get away from this subject
ASAP......

Please read my words carefully, because they were not said to offend
anyone..Far from it..I was trying to point out that I don't judge
everyone by the worst person I know from the same country, as someone
who might have offended me. It is ludicrous to think I would, & is not
the case at all.....& I would hope & like to think the same would
apply were the roles reversed
S.

MaryL
June 5th 07, 01:28 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
<snip>
> >
> Please read my words carefully, because they were not said to offend
> anyone..Far from it..I was trying to point out that I don't judge
> everyone by the worst person I know from the same country, as someone
> who might have offended me. It is ludicrous to think I would, & is not
> the case at all.....& I would hope & like to think the same would
> apply were the roles reversed
> S.
>

One of the problems with a thread like this one is that it has become so
entangled that it is often difficult to know who actually what wrote which
words. The problem is often exacerbated when part of the thread is snipped
(which is what we all should do), but it may be snipped in such a way that
an incorrect attribution remains. What remains is often a confusing (and
sometimes incomprehensible) "mess." I did not notice any offensive posts
from you. There have been so many back-and-forth messages from the same
people, sometimes with messages snipped and other times with them intact,
that I suspect you have fallen victim to being "misquoted" simply because
the wrong author was deleted from some parts of the messages.

MaryL

Matthew
June 5th 07, 04:24 PM
"sheelagh" >

Sheelagh It was nothing even remotely towards you. Mary was right too
long of a thread. It was all towards bookie. My apologies

The pot calling the kettle black was towards the attitude she has with the
US after I just watched a British news reporter eat a dog in protest
against animal abuse of a fox

June 5th 07, 05:06 PM
On Jun 5, 9:24 am, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" >
>
> Sheelagh It was nothing even remotely towards you. Mary was right too
> long of a thread. It was all towards bookie. My apologies
>
> The pot calling the kettle black was towards the attitude she has with the
> US after I just watched a British news reporter eat a dog in protest
> against animal abuse of a fox

Ewww ICK! Isn't that animal abuse of the dog??? That is so wrong!

bookie
June 5th 07, 05:20 PM
On 5 Jun, 16:24, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" >
>
> Sheelagh It was nothing even remotely towards you. Mary was right too
> long of a thread. It was all towards bookie. My apologies
>
> The pot calling the kettle black was towards the attitude she has with the
> US after I just watched a British news reporter eat a dog in protest
> against animal abuse of a fox

eh? when was that? when did I ever sayANYTHING about that? i don;t
even remember that, when was that?

bookie
June 5th 07, 05:27 PM
On 5 Jun, 02:32, Lynne > wrote:
> on Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:46:45 GMT, "Matthew"
>
> > wrote:
> > But since it has been going on for less than a week I am leaning
> > towards the needing of Midol
>
> Less than a week?? I beg to differ. It's been going on since she got
> here, which is why I killfiled her shortly thereafter.
>
> She's narrow minded and bitter. I don't think there is a pill for that. I
> suspect what she really needs is a good screw, but it's obvious why she
> isn't getting any.
>
> --
> Lynne

and I am so glad you did killfile me, anything I have to say would
propbably be too highbrow for you anyway and you would only get
confused.

the fact that you killfile anyone who doesn't immediately agree with
you or happens to express a difference of opinion to yours and the
fact that you bring the conversation down the level of stating that
someone holds a particularly view purely because she has not engaged
in the sexual act recently (and how do you know what I get up to? i
could be shagging blokes every night for all you know), just indicates
to everyone that you are not a particularly intelligent person and
therefore your opinions on anything outside the realm of cats is of no
consequence and not worth worrying about.

sad , very sad

Matthew
June 5th 07, 05:36 PM
"bookie" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On 5 Jun, 16:24, "Matthew" > wrote:
>> "sheelagh" >
>>
>> Sheelagh It was nothing even remotely towards you. Mary was right too
>> long of a thread. It was all towards bookie. My apologies
>>
>> The pot calling the kettle black was towards the attitude she has with
>> the
>> US after I just watched a British news reporter eat a dog in protest
>> against animal abuse of a fox
>
> eh? when was that? when did I ever sayANYTHING about that? i don;t
> even remember that, when was that?
>

No you never said anything about that I never said you did but calling the
country I live in [email protected] up when just this a short time ago on air a news
reporter from your own country did this. That is more [email protected] up than I have
seen in a long time. Pot calling the kettle black. Like I said every
country is [email protected] up but when you won't let something go expect things to
be shoved right back down your throat. Our dirty little secrets make world
news maybe it is time for everyone's to come out.

Now I said it was time to let this all go. You can rant and rave all you
want you have already made many of your friends out here upset. If you
have noticed or even care at this point. Right now I really could care less
you are becoming boorish.

Charlie Wilkes
June 5th 07, 07:15 PM
On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 07:28:15 -0500, "MaryL"
-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:

>
>"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>>
><snip>
>> >
>> Please read my words carefully, because they were not said to offend
>> anyone..Far from it..I was trying to point out that I don't judge
>> everyone by the worst person I know from the same country, as someone
>> who might have offended me. It is ludicrous to think I would, & is not
>> the case at all.....& I would hope & like to think the same would
>> apply were the roles reversed
>> S.
>>
>
>One of the problems with a thread like this one is that it has become so
>entangled that it is often difficult to know who actually what wrote which
>words.

Bah! I have completely run out of sympathy for Sheelagh on this
issue. She seems to run into this problem almost on a daily basis.
Above, she is responding to comments directed not toward her, but
toward her fellow babbling Brit, Ms. Bookie.

The solution is to GET A DECENT NEWSREADER. I am trying out the
newest version of Forte Agent, which will cost US$29 if I decide to
keep it past the trial period. Another option is Gravity, which
doesn't cut the mustard for binary groups but is good enough for
general use in discussion groups, and is free to download and use
forever. Either would be a huge improvement compared with Google's
web interface.

Charlie

Charlie Wilkes
June 5th 07, 07:24 PM
On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 12:36:01 -0400, "Matthew"
> wrote:

>
>"bookie" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> On 5 Jun, 16:24, "Matthew" > wrote:
>>> "sheelagh" >
>>>
>>> Sheelagh It was nothing even remotely towards you. Mary was right too
>>> long of a thread. It was all towards bookie. My apologies
>>>
>>> The pot calling the kettle black was towards the attitude she has with
>>> the
>>> US after I just watched a British news reporter eat a dog in protest
>>> against animal abuse of a fox
>>
>> eh? when was that? when did I ever sayANYTHING about that? i don;t
>> even remember that, when was that?
>>
>
>No you never said anything about that I never said you did but calling the
>country I live in [email protected] up when just this a short time ago on air a news
>reporter from your own country did this. That is more [email protected] up than I have
>seen in a long time.

It's only one of many ****ed up things about Britain. The reason
Bookie can't get any bone is because she lives in a place where the
men go down to the sea with their cabin boys.

Charlie

Charlie Wilkes
June 5th 07, 07:34 PM
On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:47:05 -0700, bookie >
wrote:

>
>do you know anything about the falklands war? or the people who live
>there? no , thought not, typical yank ignorance again

Oh Christ! I remember the Falklands War. It prompted Maggie Thatcher
to say "Great Britain is Great Again." That line was good for some
laughs here in the U.S., where we have a _real_ navy to talk about.

Charlie

Lis
June 5th 07, 08:25 PM
On Jun 5, 12:20 pm, bookie > wrote:
> On 5 Jun, 16:24, "Matthew" > wrote:
>
> > "sheelagh" >
>
> > Sheelagh It was nothing even remotely towards you. Mary was right too
> > long of a thread. It was all towards bookie. My apologies
>
> > The pot calling the kettle black was towards the attitude she has with the
> > US after I just watched a British news reporter eat a dog in protest
> > against animal abuse of a fox
>
> eh? when was that? when did I ever sayANYTHING about that? i don;t
> even remember that, when was that?

No, you didn't say anything about it, and Matthew didn't say that you
did. He said that he saw that story, shortly before reading the latest
of your rants about how awful America is--and the incongruity struck
him quite hard. Here's the story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/entertainment/6703423.stm

The idiot in question is a performance artist, not a reporter. He
claims to be a vegetarian. Ate the dog in "protest" against fox
hunting, because it's the Queen's favorite breed.

Lis

Lis
June 5th 07, 08:30 PM
On Jun 5, 6:40 am, sheelagh > wrote:
> On 5 Jun, 00:15, "Matthew" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > > On 4 Jun, 17:46, "Matthew" > wrote:
> > >> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> > >> >> >> > On 3 Jun, 19:06, sheelagh > wrote:
> > >> >> >> >> On Jun 3, 6:35 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
> > >> >> >> >> > > dear oh dear oh dear- Hide quoted text -
>
> > >> >> >> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> > >> >> >> >> Fred...!
> > >> >> >> >> Don't ruin my pixel picture of you....
>
> > >> >> >> >> 1.If I had said it, does that make Bookie as bad as me?
> > >> >> >> >> 2.Do you think we all hold the same views?
> > >> >> >> >> 3.Does that mean if Bookie said so, It is so?
> > >> >> >> >> 4.we all laugh about each other..Fact!
> > >> >> >> >> 5.I would like to think that not all Americans are like one of
> > >> >> >> >> "our"
> > >> >> >> >> more tasteless posters from the USA....?
> > >> >> >> >> 6.Does that mean if A USA troll posts something rude about me,
> > >> >> >> >> that
> > >> >> >> >> is
> > >> >> >> >> ok, because I am not a USA citizen?
>
> > >> >> >> >> 7.We could all learn something from this...
>
> > >> >> >> >> How can you call Bookie for what she has to say when you are
> > >> >> >> >> doing
> > >> >> >> >> exactly the same thing? Personally, I don't care if you think we
> > >> >> >> >> are
> > >> >> >> >> all like that, because I know better. I don't "hate you" because
> > >> >> >> >> you
> > >> >> >> >> come from somewhere different than I do - & nor do I tar you
> > >> >> >> >> with
> > >> >> >> >> the
> > >> >> >> >> same brush as someone who has made very disparaging remarks
> > >> >> >> >> about
> > >> >> >> >> me,
> > >> >> >> >> or the country I live in, simply because that someone comes from
> > >> >> >> >> the
> > >> >> >> >> USA either......
>
> > >> >> >> >> My point here is that we are all different & most of us have
> > >> >> >> >> differing
> > >> >> >> >> views on things, but that is not a good reason to class everyone
> > >> >> >> >> as
> > >> >> >> >> the same as the person who might have offended you.
>
> > >> >> >> >> Mary just has a better way of saying it than I do:o)
> > >> >> >> >> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
> > >> >> >> Take a Midol or something would you and get over it. It is getting
> > >> >> >> boring
> > >> >> >> already- Hide quoted text -
>
> > >> >> No it is a pill to get over your PMS that you seem to be having for
> > >> >> the
> > >> >> last
> > >> >> week
>
> -
>
> > >> > I have a feeling that it is nothing to do with PMs.
> > >> > It's more to do with berating everyone who acts that way, rather than
> > >> > just the British ones Matthew, my friend...
>
> > >> > Do you think I might be right?
> > >> > S.
>
> > >> Might be but no reason to take it out on all of us and group us in a hate
> > >> mongrel group
>
> > >> But since it has been going on for less than a week I am leaning towards
> > >> the
> > >> needing of Midol- Hide quoted text -
>
> > >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > > i don't get PMS, just irked by cretinous yanks who can't admit to the
> > > flaws in their own country
>
> > You are acting like it
>
> > Yes every country is screwed up specially this one but ain't that the pot
> > calling the kettle black for the rest of it
>
> > You are old enough to know better to know that sex, politics and religion
> > should never even be discussed among friends unless you want to make enemies
> > with every word that is typed or spoken
>
> > Now get over it and move on for your country is just [email protected] up as the one I
> > live in as everyone else's is.
>
> > Lets every one end this BS and get over it for the trolls are circling and
> > enjoying the spectacle- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
> > Yes every country is screwed up specially this one but ain't that the pot
> > calling the kettle black for the rest of it
>
> > You are old enough to know better to know that sex, politics and religion
> > should never even be discussed among friends unless you want to make enemies
> > with every word that is typed or spoken
>
> > Now get over it and move on for your country is just [email protected] up as the one I
> > live in as everyone Else's is.
>
> > Lets every one end this BS and get over it for the trolls are circling and
> > enjoying the spectacle-
>
> Matthew, I can't remember saying anything offensive to anyone
> here...yet which ever post I go to, I find what I have said typed
> there. I have sniped the quotes to show you exactly what I said, &
> who to as well......

Sheelagh, the irritation that Matthew, I, and others have been
expressing has been pretty explicitly directed at Bookie and her
periodic, unprompted anti-American rants. Not at you.

> ( the only bit I didn't snip was the conversation between yourself &
> Bookie, because that was relevant to this post, because you both
> contributed to it in this particular post).......
>
> The words Pot calling the kettle black is one of my most often stated
> comments, because quite often I don't feel that I do have the right to
> call anyone else names, because I am guilty of it myself...Yet, as I
> read through most peoples posts, I am finding myself quoted in almost
> every post about this issue. I don't recall bringing politics,
> religion, or sex into this issue. The only recollection I have, was a
> comment I made about our own leader, Tony Blair in the UK..(who I
> didn't vote for & dislike him for who he is & his values... nothing
> else!!).....
>
> I have read & re read everything I typed again & again, but I still
> can't find anything that I consider derogatory in my post, to warrant
> quoting me as doing any of the activities to which I seem to be
> accused of.
>
> I have already apologized to MaryL, for not clarifying what I meant
> when I said that I was shocked that there was no help for any pets in
> need of emergency care, & explained exactly what I meant through my
> own research.( I will go back and number the posts that I mean after
> this post, so that you can check for yourself mate)....
>
> The only thing that I can think of is that I am in hot water for
> trying to diffuse the bad feeling between Fred & Bookie..I have
> inspected it again & all I can see are a few questions that were aimed
> at trying to say, we all have differing opinions, & that you can't
> blame someone else for what someone else thinks & feels....(ie: if
> that is how Bookie feels, then it is- there is nothing I can do to
> change her mind..) We all have our own values, & I believe that we
> have differing opinions on certain subjects. If I have a problem then
> it is "my" problem to sort out with the person concerned..Not Bookie's
> if you see what I mean? I also stated that I didn't think PMS was
> Bookies problem in this instance. Rather it was more to do with
> personal values. If you wish to contact me personally, I would be only
> too happy to explain it to you. I have no intention of dragging the
> group down any further!!
> I very much hope that this explains some of the questions left
> hanging, & would much prefer that we get away from this subject
> ASAP......

No, Bookie's problem is that she's a bigot, that's all. PMS may or may
not be a factor in particular irruptions of it.

> Please read my words carefully, because they were not said to offend
> anyone..Far from it..I was trying to point out that I don't judge
> everyone by the worst person I know from the same country, as someone
> who might have offended me. It is ludicrous to think I would, & is not
> the case at all.....& I would hope & like to think the same would
> apply were the roles reversed

Um. Sheelagh. You don't. Bookie does.

Lis

Matthew
June 5th 07, 09:19 PM
"Lis" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Jun 5, 12:20 pm, bookie > wrote:
>> On 5 Jun, 16:24, "Matthew" > wrote:
>>
>> > "sheelagh" >
>>
>> > Sheelagh It was nothing even remotely towards you. Mary was right
>> > too
>> > long of a thread. It was all towards bookie. My apologies
>>
>> > The pot calling the kettle black was towards the attitude she has with
>> > the
>> > US after I just watched a British news reporter eat a dog in protest
>> > against animal abuse of a fox
>>
>> eh? when was that? when did I ever sayANYTHING about that? i don;t
>> even remember that, when was that?
>
> No, you didn't say anything about it, and Matthew didn't say that you
> did. He said that he saw that story, shortly before reading the latest
> of your rants about how awful America is--and the incongruity struck
> him quite hard. Here's the story:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/entertainment/6703423.stm
>
> The idiot in question is a performance artist, not a reporter. He
> claims to be a vegetarian. Ate the dog in "protest" against fox
> hunting, because it's the Queen's favorite breed.
>
> Lis
>

My mistake about the reporter part the story that was aired here said he was
a local news reporter

June 5th 07, 10:00 PM
On May 27, 1:50 pm, "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER>
wrote:
> "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote in ...
>
> > Calico wrote:
>
> >> I should mention that this is my brothers cat who passed away a couple
> >> of years ago.
>
> > No need to take the cat to a vet if it already passed away. It's time to
> > bury it.
>
> > Damn you're dumb!
>
> Worse than just a troll .... a *cruel* troll. Score = -1
>
> MaryL

I couldn't agree more. I've read a few of Fred writings. They all
seem to be in a similar vein.

June 5th 07, 10:07 PM
On May 28, 3:31 pm, chatnoir > wrote:
> On May 27, 3:06 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > MaryL wrote:
> > > "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote in message
> > ...
>
> > >>Calico wrote:
>
> > >>>I should mention that this is my brothers cat who passed away a couple
> > >>>of years ago.
>
> > >>No need to take the cat to a vet if it already passed away. It's time to
> > >>bury it.
>
> > >>Damn you're dumb!
>
> > > Worse than just a troll .... a *cruel* troll. Score = -1
>
> > This person deserves to be treated cruelly. They let their cat fall out
> > of a third story window, saw that it was severely injured and waited
> > until the next day to take it to the vet.
>
> > Furthermore, they are hanging on to their cat as if it is somehow a
> > piece of the brother they lost.
>
> > Someone should rescue this feline.
>
> Fred spouts off!:
>
> http://www.thechurning.com/images/hybridmotorcycle.jpg- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

God what a hoot! Or should I say TOOT! LOL!!!!!!!!

Charlie Wilkes
June 6th 07, 12:22 AM
On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 16:19:04 -0400, "Matthew"
> wrote:

>
>"Lis" > wrote in message

>> No, you didn't say anything about it, and Matthew didn't say that you
>> did. He said that he saw that story, shortly before reading the latest
>> of your rants about how awful America is--and the incongruity struck
>> him quite hard. Here's the story:
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/entertainment/6703423.stm

I got a 404 on that link. Here's one that oughta work:

http://www.voanews.com/english/Entertainment/2007-05-30-voa41.cfm
>>
>> The idiot in question is a performance artist, not a reporter. He
>> claims to be a vegetarian. Ate the dog in "protest" against fox
>> hunting, because it's the Queen's favorite breed.

I was amused that they cooked up a dog that died of natural causes. No
wonder the meat smelled funny and tasted horrible.

>>
>> Lis
>>
>
>My mistake about the reporter part the story that was aired here said he was
>a local news reporter
>
Here's a sample of some recent British journalism:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxqR5NPhtLI&mode=related&search=

Ir'a not easy to make Scientologists look good by comparison with
anything, but this guy managed to do it.

Charlie

bookie
June 6th 07, 03:11 AM
On 5 Jun, 20:25, Lis > wrote:
> On Jun 5, 12:20 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
> > On 5 Jun, 16:24, "Matthew" > wrote:
>
> > > "sheelagh" >
>
> > > Sheelagh It was nothing even remotely towards you. Mary was right too
> > > long of a thread. It was all towards bookie. My apologies
>
> > > The pot calling the kettle black was towards the attitude she has with the
> > > US after I just watched a British news reporter eat a dog in protest
> > > against animal abuse of a fox
>
> > eh? when was that? when did I ever sayANYTHING about that? i don;t
> > even remember that, when was that?
>
> No, you didn't say anything about it, and Matthew didn't say that you
> did. He said that he saw that story, shortly before reading the latest
> of your rants about how awful America is--and the incongruity struck
> him quite hard. Here's the story:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/entertainment/6703423.stm
>
> The idiot in question is a performance artist, not a reporter. He
> claims to be a vegetarian. Ate the dog in "protest" against fox
> hunting, because it's the Queen's favorite breed.
>
> Lis

never saw this particular report, but then i never said that britain
was perfect , far from it, i said that in britain we accept and admit
to our countries flaws, so if it happened it happened,. doesn't mean
to say i supported it or that the majority of the british people
supported it either

so what was his point?

bookie
June 6th 07, 03:12 AM
On 5 Jun, 20:30, Lis > wrote:
> On Jun 5, 6:40 am, sheelagh > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 5 Jun, 00:15, "Matthew" > wrote:
>
> > > "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> > ups.com...
>
> > > > On 4 Jun, 17:46, "Matthew" > wrote:
> > > >> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> > > >> >> >> > On 3 Jun, 19:06, sheelagh > wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >> On Jun 3, 6:35 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >> > > dear oh dear oh dear- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > >> >> >> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > >> >> >> >> Fred...!
> > > >> >> >> >> Don't ruin my pixel picture of you....
>
> > > >> >> >> >> 1.If I had said it, does that make Bookie as bad as me?
> > > >> >> >> >> 2.Do you think we all hold the same views?
> > > >> >> >> >> 3.Does that mean if Bookie said so, It is so?
> > > >> >> >> >> 4.we all laugh about each other..Fact!
> > > >> >> >> >> 5.I would like to think that not all Americans are like one of
> > > >> >> >> >> "our"
> > > >> >> >> >> more tasteless posters from the USA....?
> > > >> >> >> >> 6.Does that mean if A USA troll posts something rude about me,
> > > >> >> >> >> that
> > > >> >> >> >> is
> > > >> >> >> >> ok, because I am not a USA citizen?
>
> > > >> >> >> >> 7.We could all learn something from this...
>
> > > >> >> >> >> How can you call Bookie for what she has to say when you are
> > > >> >> >> >> doing
> > > >> >> >> >> exactly the same thing? Personally, I don't care if you think we
> > > >> >> >> >> are
> > > >> >> >> >> all like that, because I know better. I don't "hate you" because
> > > >> >> >> >> you
> > > >> >> >> >> come from somewhere different than I do - & nor do I tar you
> > > >> >> >> >> with
> > > >> >> >> >> the
> > > >> >> >> >> same brush as someone who has made very disparaging remarks
> > > >> >> >> >> about
> > > >> >> >> >> me,
> > > >> >> >> >> or the country I live in, simply because that someone comes from
> > > >> >> >> >> the
> > > >> >> >> >> USA either......
>
> > > >> >> >> >> My point here is that we are all different & most of us have
> > > >> >> >> >> differing
> > > >> >> >> >> views on things, but that is not a good reason to class everyone
> > > >> >> >> >> as
> > > >> >> >> >> the same as the person who might have offended you.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> Mary just has a better way of saying it than I do:o)
> > > >> >> >> >> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
> > > >> >> >> Take a Midol or something would you and get over it. It is getting
> > > >> >> >> boring
> > > >> >> >> already- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > >> >> No it is a pill to get over your PMS that you seem to be having for
> > > >> >> the
> > > >> >> last
> > > >> >> week
>
> > -
>
> > > >> > I have a feeling that it is nothing to do with PMs.
> > > >> > It's more to do with berating everyone who acts that way, rather than
> > > >> > just the British ones Matthew, my friend...
>
> > > >> > Do you think I might be right?
> > > >> > S.
>
> > > >> Might be but no reason to take it out on all of us and group us in a hate
> > > >> mongrel group
>
> > > >> But since it has been going on for less than a week I am leaning towards
> > > >> the
> > > >> needing of Midol- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > i don't get PMS, just irked by cretinous yanks who can't admit to the
> > > > flaws in their own country
>
> > > You are acting like it
>
> > > Yes every country is screwed up specially this one but ain't that the pot
> > > calling the kettle black for the rest of it
>
> > > You are old enough to know better to know that sex, politics and religion
> > > should never even be discussed among friends unless you want to make enemies
> > > with every word that is typed or spoken
>
> > > Now get over it and move on for your country is just [email protected] up as the one I
> > > live in as everyone else's is.
>
> > > Lets every one end this BS and get over it for the trolls are circling and
> > > enjoying the spectacle- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
> > > Yes every country is screwed up specially this one but ain't that the pot
> > > calling the kettle black for the rest of it
>
> > > You are old enough to know better to know that sex, politics and religion
> > > should never even be discussed among friends unless you want to make enemies
> > > with every word that is typed or spoken
>
> > > Now get over it and move on for your country is just [email protected] up as the one I
> > > live in as everyone Else's is.
>
> > > Lets every one end this BS and get over it for the trolls are circling and
> > > enjoying the spectacle-
>
> > Matthew, I can't remember saying anything offensive to anyone
> > here...yet which ever post I go to, I find what I have said typed
> > there. I have sniped the quotes to show you exactly what I said, &
> > who to as well......
>
> Sheelagh, the irritation that Matthew, I, and others have been
> expressing has been pretty explicitly directed at Bookie and her
> periodic, unprompted anti-American rants. Not at you.
>
>
>
>
>
> > ( the only bit I didn't snip was the conversation between yourself &
> > Bookie, because that was relevant to this post, because you both
> > contributed to it in this particular post).......
>
> > The words Pot calling the kettle black is one of my most often stated
> > comments, because quite often I don't feel that I do have the right to
> > call anyone else names, because I am guilty of it myself...Yet, as I
> > read through most peoples posts, I am finding myself quoted in almost
> > every post about this issue. I don't recall bringing politics,
> > religion, or sex into this issue. The only recollection I have, was a
> > comment I made about our own leader, Tony Blair in the UK..(who I
> > didn't vote for & dislike him for who he is & his values... nothing
> > else!!).....
>
> > I have read & re read everything I typed again & again, but I still
> > can't find anything that I consider derogatory in my post, to warrant
> > quoting me as doing any of the activities to which I seem to be
> > accused of.
>
> > I have already apologized to MaryL, for not clarifying what I meant
> > when I said that I was shocked that there was no help for any pets in
> > need of emergency care, & explained exactly what I meant through my
> > own research.( I will go back and number the posts that I mean after
> > this post, so that you can check for yourself mate)....
>
> > The only thing that I can think of is that I am in hot water for
> > trying to diffuse the bad feeling between Fred & Bookie..I have
> > inspected it again & all I can see are a few questions that were aimed
> > at trying to say, we all have differing opinions, & that you can't
> > blame someone else for what someone else thinks & feels....(ie: if
> > that is how Bookie feels, then it is- there is nothing I can do to
> > change her mind..) We all have our own values, & I believe that we
> > have differing opinions on certain subjects. If I have a problem then
> > it is "my" problem to sort out with the person concerned..Not Bookie's
> > if you see what I mean? I also stated that I didn't think PMS was
> > Bookies problem in this instance. Rather it was more to do with
> > personal values. If you wish to contact me personally, I would be only
> > too happy to explain it to you. I have no intention of dragging the
> > group down any further!!
> > I very much hope that this explains some of the questions left
> > hanging, & would much prefer that we get away from this subject
> > ASAP......
>
> No, Bookie's problem is that she's a bigot, that's all. PMS may or may
> not be a factor in particular irruptions of it.
>
> > Please read my words carefully, because they were not said to offend
> > anyone..Far from it..I was trying to point out that I don't judge
> > everyone by the worst person I know from the same country, as someone
> > who might have offended me. It is ludicrous to think I would, & is not
> > the case at all.....& I would hope & like to think the same would
> > apply were the roles reversed
>
> Um. Sheelagh. You don't. Bookie does.
>
> Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I am not a bigot, how can I be when I am not american?

bookie
June 6th 07, 03:14 AM
On 5 Jun, 19:34, Charlie Wilkes >
wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:47:05 -0700, bookie >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >do you know anything about the falklands war? or the people who live
> >there? no , thought not, typical yank ignorance again
>
> Oh Christ! I remember the Falklands War. It prompted Maggie Thatcher
> to say "Great Britain is Great Again." That line was good for some
> laughs here in the U.S., where we have a _real_ navy to talk about.
>
> Charlie

ok so who lives inthe falklands apart from lots of sheep? what was the
point of going there? why did the armed forces have to go there? find
out then get back to us when you actually know what you are talking
about.

clue: it is called 'defending your people'

Lis
June 6th 07, 04:56 AM
On Jun 5, 10:12 pm, bookie > wrote:
> On 5 Jun, 20:30, Lis > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 5, 6:40 am, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > > On 5 Jun, 00:15, "Matthew" > wrote:
>
> > > > "bookie" > wrote in message
>
> > > ups.com...
>
> > > > > On 4 Jun, 17:46, "Matthew" > wrote:
> > > > >> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> > > > >> >> >> > On 3 Jun, 19:06, sheelagh > wrote:
> > > > >> >> >> >> On Jun 3, 6:35 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" > wrote:
> > > > >> >> >> >> > > dear oh dear oh dear- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > >> >> >> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > >> >> >> >> Fred...!
> > > > >> >> >> >> Don't ruin my pixel picture of you....
>
> > > > >> >> >> >> 1.If I had said it, does that make Bookie as bad as me?
> > > > >> >> >> >> 2.Do you think we all hold the same views?
> > > > >> >> >> >> 3.Does that mean if Bookie said so, It is so?
> > > > >> >> >> >> 4.we all laugh about each other..Fact!
> > > > >> >> >> >> 5.I would like to think that not all Americans are like one of
> > > > >> >> >> >> "our"
> > > > >> >> >> >> more tasteless posters from the USA....?
> > > > >> >> >> >> 6.Does that mean if A USA troll posts something rude about me,
> > > > >> >> >> >> that
> > > > >> >> >> >> is
> > > > >> >> >> >> ok, because I am not a USA citizen?
>
> > > > >> >> >> >> 7.We could all learn something from this...
>
> > > > >> >> >> >> How can you call Bookie for what she has to say when you are
> > > > >> >> >> >> doing
> > > > >> >> >> >> exactly the same thing? Personally, I don't care if you think we
> > > > >> >> >> >> are
> > > > >> >> >> >> all like that, because I know better. I don't "hate you" because
> > > > >> >> >> >> you
> > > > >> >> >> >> come from somewhere different than I do - & nor do I tar you
> > > > >> >> >> >> with
> > > > >> >> >> >> the
> > > > >> >> >> >> same brush as someone who has made very disparaging remarks
> > > > >> >> >> >> about
> > > > >> >> >> >> me,
> > > > >> >> >> >> or the country I live in, simply because that someone comes from
> > > > >> >> >> >> the
> > > > >> >> >> >> USA either......
>
> > > > >> >> >> >> My point here is that we are all different & most of us have
> > > > >> >> >> >> differing
> > > > >> >> >> >> views on things, but that is not a good reason to class everyone
> > > > >> >> >> >> as
> > > > >> >> >> >> the same as the person who might have offended you.
>
> > > > >> >> >> >> Mary just has a better way of saying it than I do:o)
> > > > >> >> >> >> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
> > > > >> >> >> Take a Midol or something would you and get over it. It is getting
> > > > >> >> >> boring
> > > > >> >> >> already- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > >> >> No it is a pill to get over your PMS that you seem to be having for
> > > > >> >> the
> > > > >> >> last
> > > > >> >> week
>
> > > -
>
> > > > >> > I have a feeling that it is nothing to do with PMs.
> > > > >> > It's more to do with berating everyone who acts that way, rather than
> > > > >> > just the British ones Matthew, my friend...
>
> > > > >> > Do you think I might be right?
> > > > >> > S.
>
> > > > >> Might be but no reason to take it out on all of us and group us in a hate
> > > > >> mongrel group
>
> > > > >> But since it has been going on for less than a week I am leaning towards
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> needing of Midol- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > i don't get PMS, just irked by cretinous yanks who can't admit to the
> > > > > flaws in their own country
>
> > > > You are acting like it
>
> > > > Yes every country is screwed up specially this one but ain't that the pot
> > > > calling the kettle black for the rest of it
>
> > > > You are old enough to know better to know that sex, politics and religion
> > > > should never even be discussed among friends unless you want to make enemies
> > > > with every word that is typed or spoken
>
> > > > Now get over it and move on for your country is just [email protected] up as the one I
> > > > live in as everyone else's is.
>
> > > > Lets every one end this BS and get over it for the trolls are circling and
> > > > enjoying the spectacle- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > Yes every country is screwed up specially this one but ain't that the pot
> > > > calling the kettle black for the rest of it
>
> > > > You are old enough to know better to know that sex, politics and religion
> > > > should never even be discussed among friends unless you want to make enemies
> > > > with every word that is typed or spoken
>
> > > > Now get over it and move on for your country is just [email protected] up as the one I
> > > > live in as everyone Else's is.
>
> > > > Lets every one end this BS and get over it for the trolls are circling and
> > > > enjoying the spectacle-
>
> > > Matthew, I can't remember saying anything offensive to anyone
> > > here...yet which ever post I go to, I find what I have said typed
> > > there. I have sniped the quotes to show you exactly what I said, &
> > > who to as well......
>
> > Sheelagh, the irritation that Matthew, I, and others have been
> > expressing has been pretty explicitly directed at Bookie and her
> > periodic, unprompted anti-American rants. Not at you.
>
> > > ( the only bit I didn't snip was the conversation between yourself &
> > > Bookie, because that was relevant to this post, because you both
> > > contributed to it in this particular post).......
>
> > > The words Pot calling the kettle black is one of my most often stated
> > > comments, because quite often I don't feel that I do have the right to
> > > call anyone else names, because I am guilty of it myself...Yet, as I
> > > read through most peoples posts, I am finding myself quoted in almost
> > > every post about this issue. I don't recall bringing politics,
> > > religion, or sex into this issue. The only recollection I have, was a
> > > comment I made about our own leader, Tony Blair in the UK..(who I
> > > didn't vote for & dislike him for who he is & his values... nothing
> > > else!!).....
>
> > > I have read & re read everything I typed again & again, but I still
> > > can't find anything that I consider derogatory in my post, to warrant
> > > quoting me as doing any of the activities to which I seem to be
> > > accused of.
>
> > > I have already apologized to MaryL, for not clarifying what I meant
> > > when I said that I was shocked that there was no help for any pets in
> > > need of emergency care, & explained exactly what I meant through my
> > > own research.( I will go back and number the posts that I mean after
> > > this post, so that you can check for yourself mate)....
>
> > > The only thing that I can think of is that I am in hot water for
> > > trying to diffuse the bad feeling between Fred & Bookie..I have
> > > inspected it again & all I can see are a few questions that were aimed
> > > at trying to say, we all have differing opinions, & that you can't
> > > blame someone else for what someone else thinks & feels....(ie: if
> > > that is how Bookie feels, then it is- there is nothing I can do to
> > > change her mind..) We all have our own values, & I believe that we
> > > have differing opinions on certain subjects. If I have a problem then
> > > it is "my" problem to sort out with the person concerned..Not Bookie's
> > > if you see what I mean? I also stated that I didn't think PMS was
> > > Bookies problem in this instance. Rather it was more to do with
> > > personal values. If you wish to contact me personally, I would be only
> > > too happy to explain it to you. I have no intention of dragging the
> > > group down any further!!
> > > I very much hope that this explains some of the questions left
> > > hanging, & would much prefer that we get away from this subject
> > > ASAP......
>
> > No, Bookie's problem is that she's a bigot, that's all. PMS may or may
> > not be a factor in particular irruptions of it.
>
> > > Please read my words carefully, because they were not said to offend
> > > anyone..Far from it..I was trying to point out that I don't judge
> > > everyone by the worst person I know from the same country, as someone
> > > who might have offended me. It is ludicrous to think I would, & is not
> > > the case at all.....& I would hope & like to think the same would
> > > apply were the roles reversed
>
> > Um. Sheelagh. You don't. Bookie does.
>
> > Lis- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I am not a bigot, how can I be when I am not american?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thus beautifully demonstrating my point; thank you.

Lis

Charlie Wilkes
June 6th 07, 06:20 AM
On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 19:14:49 -0700, bookie >
wrote:

>On 5 Jun, 19:34, Charlie Wilkes >
>wrote:
>> On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:47:05 -0700, bookie >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >do you know anything about the falklands war? or the people who live
>> >there? no , thought not, typical yank ignorance again
>>
>> Oh Christ! I remember the Falklands War. It prompted Maggie Thatcher
>> to say "Great Britain is Great Again." That line was good for some
>> laughs here in the U.S., where we have a _real_ navy to talk about.
>>
>> Charlie
>
>ok so who lives inthe falklands apart from lots of sheep? what was the
>point of going there? why did the armed forces have to go there? find
>out then get back to us when you actually know what you are talking
>about.
>
>clue: it is called 'defending your people'

This is too easy in the age of Google, dear. It's impossible to catch
anyone with their pants down.

But I pretty much know the story anyway, because I am a history buff.
Back in the 19th Century, a U.S. gunboat demolished an Argentine
colony on the islands because of a commercial dispute. This paved the
way for the British to establish a colony which served as a relief
station for whalers and naval vessels rounding the horn. It was naked
anglo imperialism, but on such a small scale no one cared... except
the Argentines, who bided their time until 1982.

Interesting that the top officers who led the 1982 expeditionary
force were all from your region... along with Francis Drake, John
Hawkins, Captain Bligh of the Bounty, and lots of other swashbuckling
characters who have sailed through the pages of British nautical
history. There must be something in the west country water that makes
people ****y and ornery.

Charlie

sheelagh
June 6th 07, 03:07 PM
On 6 Jun, 05:50, Nomen Nescio > wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> From: bookie >
>
> >ok so who lives inthe falklands apart from lots of sheep? what was the
> >point of going there? why did the armed forces have to go there?
>
> I heard it was because sheep are a better f**k than British women.
>
> Must have been a "morale" thing.
>
> JOIN THE BRITISH ARMY
> INVADE UNPOPULATED ISLANDS
> F**K THE SHEEP OF YOUR DREAMS
> SIGN UP TODAY
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: N/A
>
> iQCVAwUBRmZr4ZMoscYxZNI5AQH3ZwP/Tl9z1I5PFLsuB6tlZt9v9myME7c4STfN
> 0SXGTyXdgKUGsuFE/cg1vS4ZjJ1odCcvmI2gjR1Qsx0TKsU8ljs+G+izGYblwtm4
> hfd4oiKCfNxH7jXz2nJDSiAyimvmX12dGswcaH7nOcliYK5BOr mddR5tSB5tBYBK
> u3ZToPPmG/0=
> =FzIC
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

No, you heard wrong..we blame the welsh for that practise....
<LOL>
S;o)

sheelagh
June 6th 07, 03:19 PM
On 5 Jun, 19:15, Charlie Wilkes >
wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 07:28:15 -0500, "MaryL"
>
>
>
>
>
> -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>
> >"sheelagh" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
> ><snip>
>
> >> Please read my words carefully, because they were not said to offend
> >> anyone..Far from it..I was trying to point out that I don't judge
> >> everyone by the worst person I know from the same country, as someone
> >> who might have offended me. It is ludicrous to think I would, & is not
> >> the case at all.....& I would hope & like to think the same would
> >> apply were the roles reversed
> >> S.
>
> >One of the problems with a thread like this one is that it has become so
> >entangled that it is often difficult to know who actually what wrote which
> >words.
>
> Bah! I have completely run out of sympathy for Sheelagh on this
> issue. She seems to run into this problem almost on a daily basis.
> Above, she is responding to comments directed not toward her, but
> toward her fellow babbling Brit, Ms. Bookie.
>
> The solution is to GET A DECENT NEWSREADER. I am trying out the
> newest version of Forte Agent, which will cost US$29 if I decide to
> keep it past the trial period. Another option is Gravity, which
> doesn't cut the mustard for binary groups but is good enough for
> general use in discussion groups, and is free to download and use
> forever. Either would be a huge improvement compared with Google's
> web interface.
>
> Charlie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I wasn't looking for sympathy Charlie- merely pointing out that I
didn't understand why my posts were associated with this problem,
given that I had said nothing to warrant this.

OTOH, thanks for the news regarding Gravity. I will try that. To be
utterly honest, the only reason that I haven't got one so far is
because I don't have a credit card @ all. I don't use them, I have to
deal in cash only.. I did try using outlook express in the days when
Barry was helpful and accommodating. He took me through it step by
step, only to find out in the end that I couldn't even use that,
because if you have hotmail, you have to pay a fee to use outlook
express as my news reader.(back to square one again!!)

If I want to order off the Internet, I have to get someone to order/
pay on my behalf & I give them the cash required to do this for me.

I didn't particularly want to tell the world about this, but after
this, I don't think it really matters to me anymore. It's not the
amount of money that it costs really, it is the embarrassment of
having to ask! I hope this explains why I haven't done so, so far?
However, should I get to a point where I can get gravity on this heap
of [email protected] Pc, would you still be willing to take me through downloading
Gravity & using it too please?

S;o)

sheelagh
June 6th 07, 03:28 PM
On 6 Jun, 15:07, sheelagh > wrote:
> On 6 Jun, 05:50, Nomen Nescio > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> > From: bookie >
>
> > >ok so who lives inthe falklands apart from lots of sheep? what was the
> > >point of going there? why did the armed forces have to go there?
>
> > I heard it was because sheep are a better f**k than British women.
>
> > Must have been a "morale" thing.
>
> > JOIN THE BRITISH ARMY
> > INVADE UNPOPULATED ISLANDS
> > F**K THE SHEEP OF YOUR DREAMS
> > SIGN UP TODAY
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: N/A
>
> > iQCVAwUBRmZr4ZMoscYxZNI5AQH3ZwP/Tl9z1I5PFLsuB6tlZt9v9myME7c4STfN
> > 0SXGTyXdgKUGsuFE/cg1vS4ZjJ1odCcvmI2gjR1Qsx0TKsU8ljs+G+izGYblwtm4
> > hfd4oiKCfNxH7jXz2nJDSiAyimvmX12dGswcaH7nOcliYK5BOr mddR5tSB5tBYBK
> > u3ZToPPmG/0=
> > =FzIC
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> No, you heard wrong..we blame the welsh for that practise....
> <LOL>
> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[email protected], forgot forgot to say this before pressing send...(your right
MaryL!!)

Not intended to piddle the Welsh off..... just a way of showing you
that I can laugh about what people think about Brits:o)

We can laugh about this ourselves. You are not the first to come out
with that one Nomen...I don't see the point in arguing with you about
it @ all?!!!

Nevertheless, I really have had enough of this thread, mostly because
I haven't argued from the first. All I wanted to know was why I was
being quoted when I wasn't part of the thread @ that point..
I'm done.. I have better things to talk about,
Later,
S;o)

bookie
June 6th 07, 04:15 PM
On 6 Jun, 06:20, Charlie Wilkes >
wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 19:14:49 -0700, bookie >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On 5 Jun, 19:34, Charlie Wilkes >
> >wrote:
> >> On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:47:05 -0700, bookie >
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >do you know anything about the falklands war? or the people who live
> >> >there? no , thought not, typical yank ignorance again
>
> >> Oh Christ! I remember the Falklands War. It prompted Maggie Thatcher
> >> to say "Great Britain is Great Again." That line was good for some
> >> laughs here in the U.S., where we have a _real_ navy to talk about.
>
> >> Charlie
>
> >ok so who lives inthe falklands apart from lots of sheep? what was the
> >point of going there? why did the armed forces have to go there? find
> >out then get back to us when you actually know what you are talking
> >about.
>
> >clue: it is called 'defending your people'
>
> This is too easy in the age of Google, dear. It's impossible to catch
> anyone with their pants down.
>
> But I pretty much know the story anyway, because I am a history buff.
> Back in the 19th Century, a U.S. gunboat demolished an Argentine
> colony on the islands because of a commercial dispute. This paved the
> way for the British to establish a colony which served as a relief
> station for whalers and naval vessels rounding the horn. It was naked
> anglo imperialism, but on such a small scale no one cared... except
> the Argentines, who bided their time until 1982.
>
> Interesting that the top officers who led the 1982 expeditionary
> force were all from your region... along with Francis Drake, John
> Hawkins, Captain Bligh of the Bounty, and lots of other swashbuckling
> characters who have sailed through the pages of British nautical
> history. There must be something in the west country water that makes
> people ****y and ornery.
>
> Charlie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I'm not from the west country and neither is sheelagh, couldn't be
further from the truth (check out where cambridgeshire is on googke
maps or something)and since despite the clues given i will have to
tell you that the armed forces were sent down there not to reclaim the
islands but to protect the islanders who were british citizens and so
obviously eligible and requiring some protection. They were the ones
living there at the time, it was their home, they did not want be
taken over by the argentine forces, so something was done about it.
you can go on about maggie thatcher (milk snatcher) sending forces
down there to enhance her appeal inthe opinion polls etc and I am sure
you are correct about that (same as bush has tried to do with the Iraq
situation, but failed badly, cos everyone thinks he is a tit whatever
he does), but the simple fact of the matter is that there were british
citizens down there who needed the protection of the armed forces,
simple.

btw there are still many unexploded landmines is parts of the
falklands, so hasn't actually all been sorted out, but if course you
already know all that don't you? you have probably met simon weston
and other vets of the conflict.

anyway what the f*ck has this got to do with cats? apart from that
there may be some cats on the island

Charlie Wilkes
June 6th 07, 08:41 PM
On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:15:48 -0700, bookie >
wrote:

>On 6 Jun, 06:20, Charlie Wilkes >
>wrote:
>> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 19:14:49 -0700, bookie >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On 5 Jun, 19:34, Charlie Wilkes >
>> >wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:47:05 -0700, bookie >
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >do you know anything about the falklands war? or the people who live
>> >> >there? no , thought not, typical yank ignorance again
>>
>> >> Oh Christ! I remember the Falklands War. It prompted Maggie Thatcher
>> >> to say "Great Britain is Great Again." That line was good for some
>> >> laughs here in the U.S., where we have a _real_ navy to talk about.
>>
>> >> Charlie
>>
>> >ok so who lives inthe falklands apart from lots of sheep? what was the
>> >point of going there? why did the armed forces have to go there? find
>> >out then get back to us when you actually know what you are talking
>> >about.
>>
>> >clue: it is called 'defending your people'
>>
>> This is too easy in the age of Google, dear. It's impossible to catch
>> anyone with their pants down.
>>
>> But I pretty much know the story anyway, because I am a history buff.
>> Back in the 19th Century, a U.S. gunboat demolished an Argentine
>> colony on the islands because of a commercial dispute. This paved the
>> way for the British to establish a colony which served as a relief
>> station for whalers and naval vessels rounding the horn. It was naked
>> anglo imperialism, but on such a small scale no one cared... except
>> the Argentines, who bided their time until 1982.
>>
>> Interesting that the top officers who led the 1982 expeditionary
>> force were all from your region... along with Francis Drake, John
>> Hawkins, Captain Bligh of the Bounty, and lots of other swashbuckling
>> characters who have sailed through the pages of British nautical
>> history. There must be something in the west country water that makes
>> people ****y and ornery.
>>
>> Charlie- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>I'm not from the west country and neither is sheelagh, couldn't be
>further from the truth (check out where cambridgeshire is on googke

??? I thought you told me at one point that you were living in Devon.
I must be confusing you with someone else.

>maps or something)and since despite the clues given i will have to
>tell you that the armed forces were sent down there not to reclaim the
>islands but to protect the islanders who were british citizens and so

Well, you can't do one without the other, can you? It's not as though
the Argentines intended to slaughter the people living in the
Falklands. They could have left for England or stayed under the
protection of Argentine forces.

>obviously eligible and requiring some protection. They were the ones
>living there at the time, it was their home, they did not want be
>taken over by the argentine forces, so something was done about it.
>you can go on about maggie thatcher (milk snatcher) sending forces
>down there to enhance her appeal inthe opinion polls etc and I am sure
>you are correct about that (same as bush has tried to do with the Iraq
>situation, but failed badly, cos everyone thinks he is a tit whatever
>he does), but the simple fact of the matter is that there were british
>citizens down there who needed the protection of the armed forces,
>simple.
>
>btw there are still many unexploded landmines is parts of the
>falklands, so hasn't actually all been sorted out, but if course you
>already know all that don't you? you have probably met simon weston
>and other vets of the conflict.
>
>anyway what the f*ck has this got to do with cats? apart from that
>there may be some cats on the island

Don't be disingenuous. You are the one who led this discussion with a
broadside of bilious invective aimed at the U.S. I merely followed
the thread until your running commentary became so outrageous that I
was compelled to step in and clarify the record.

Charlie

Charlie Wilkes
June 6th 07, 09:04 PM
On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 07:19:51 -0700, sheelagh
> wrote:
>
>I wasn't looking for sympathy Charlie- merely pointing out that I
>didn't understand why my posts were associated with this problem,
>given that I had said nothing to warrant this.
>
>OTOH, thanks for the news regarding Gravity. I will try that. To be
>utterly honest, the only reason that I haven't got one so far is
>because I don't have a credit card @ all. I don't use them, I have to
>deal in cash only.. I did try using outlook express in the days when
>Barry was helpful and accommodating. He took me through it step by
>step, only to find out in the end that I couldn't even use that,
>because if you have hotmail, you have to pay a fee to use outlook
>express as my news reader.(back to square one again!!)

??? Are you sure about that? In any case, Outlook Express is not a
great choice.

>
>If I want to order off the Internet, I have to get someone to order/
>pay on my behalf & I give them the cash required to do this for me.

Set up a paypal acct. It's easy. But, you needn't pay for a
newsreader. Unless you are downloading lots of binaries, Gravity is
good enough.
>
>I didn't particularly want to tell the world about this, but after
>this, I don't think it really matters to me anymore. It's not the
>amount of money that it costs really, it is the embarrassment of
>having to ask! I hope this explains why I haven't done so, so far?
>However, should I get to a point where I can get gravity on this heap
>of [email protected] Pc, would you still be willing to take me through downloading
>Gravity & using it too please?

Yes, I will be glad to help. To start, go to:

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=95245

and download grav-2067-setup.zip. You will have to unzip it using
Winzip or similar, and then I believe you will have a self-extracting
..exe that will lead you through the whole process.

Charlie

bookie
June 6th 07, 11:27 PM
On 6 Jun, 20:41, Charlie Wilkes >
wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:15:48 -0700, bookie >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On 6 Jun, 06:20, Charlie Wilkes >
> >wrote:
> >> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 19:14:49 -0700, bookie >
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >On 5 Jun, 19:34, Charlie Wilkes >
> >> >wrote:
> >> >> On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:47:05 -0700, bookie >
> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> >do you know anything about the falklands war? or the people who live
> >> >> >there? no , thought not, typical yank ignorance again
>
> >> >> Oh Christ! I remember the Falklands War. It prompted Maggie Thatcher
> >> >> to say "Great Britain is Great Again." That line was good for some
> >> >> laughs here in the U.S., where we have a _real_ navy to talk about.
>
> >> >> Charlie
>
> >> >ok so who lives inthe falklands apart from lots of sheep? what was the
> >> >point of going there? why did the armed forces have to go there? find
> >> >out then get back to us when you actually know what you are talking
> >> >about.
>
> >> >clue: it is called 'defending your people'
>
> >> This is too easy in the age of Google, dear. It's impossible to catch
> >> anyone with their pants down.
>
> >> But I pretty much know the story anyway, because I am a history buff.
> >> Back in the 19th Century, a U.S. gunboat demolished an Argentine
> >> colony on the islands because of a commercial dispute. This paved the
> >> way for the British to establish a colony which served as a relief
> >> station for whalers and naval vessels rounding the horn. It was naked
> >> anglo imperialism, but on such a small scale no one cared... except
> >> the Argentines, who bided their time until 1982.
>
> >> Interesting that the top officers who led the 1982 expeditionary
> >> force were all from your region... along with Francis Drake, John
> >> Hawkins, Captain Bligh of the Bounty, and lots of other swashbuckling
> >> characters who have sailed through the pages of British nautical
> >> history. There must be something in the west country water that makes
> >> people ****y and ornery.
>
> >> Charlie- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >I'm not from the west country and neither is sheelagh, couldn't be
> >further from the truth (check out where cambridgeshire is on googke
>
> ??? I thought you told me at one point that you were living in Devon.
> I must be confusing you with someone else.
>
> >maps or something)and since despite the clues given i will have to
> >tell you that the armed forces were sent down there not to reclaim the
> >islands but to protect the islanders who were british citizens and so
>
> Well, you can't do one without the other, can you? It's not as though
> the Argentines intended to slaughter the people living in the
> Falklands. They could have left for England or stayed under the
> protection of Argentine forces.
>
>
>
>
>
> >obviously eligible and requiring some protection. They were the ones
> >living there at the time, it was their home, they did not want be
> >taken over by the argentine forces, so something was done about it.
> >you can go on about maggie thatcher (milk snatcher) sending forces
> >down there to enhance her appeal inthe opinion polls etc and I am sure
> >you are correct about that (same as bush has tried to do with the Iraq
> >situation, but failed badly, cos everyone thinks he is a tit whatever
> >he does), but the simple fact of the matter is that there were british
> >citizens down there who needed the protection of the armed forces,
> >simple.
>
> >btw there are still many unexploded landmines is parts of the
> >falklands, so hasn't actually all been sorted out, but if course you
> >already know all that don't you? you have probably met simon weston
> >and other vets of the conflict.
>
> >anyway what the f*ck has this got to do with cats? apart from that
> >there may be some cats on the island
>
> Don't be disingenuous. You are the one who led this discussion with a
> broadside of bilious invective aimed at the U.S. I merely followed
> the thread until your running commentary became so outrageous that I
> was compelled to step in and clarify the record.
>
> Charlie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

what? you had to clarify the record about the falklands conflict? i
doubt that somehow

Charlie Wilkes
June 6th 07, 11:48 PM
On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:27:30 -0700, bookie >
wrote:

>
>what? you had to clarify the record about the falklands conflict? i
>doubt that somehow

Read back in the thread, assuming you can follow it. Your comment was
that Americans aren't worthy for you to so much as wipe your feet on,
which led to Fred G. Mackey's (quite reasonable) comment that the
Falklands war was a sad adventure aimed at preserving the last vestige
of British imperial pride, which led to your defensive and wholly
unreasonable tirade about Bush and Iraq and how Americans don't know
anything about history. In fact, America MAKES the history that
others merely read about and watch on TV. That stings, doesn't it?

Charlie

MaryL
June 7th 07, 01:51 AM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On 5 Jun, 19:15, Charlie Wilkes >
> wrote:
>> On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 07:28:15 -0500, "MaryL"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>>
>> >"sheelagh" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>
>> ><snip>
>>
>> >> Please read my words carefully, because they were not said to offend
>> >> anyone..Far from it..I was trying to point out that I don't judge
>> >> everyone by the worst person I know from the same country, as someone
>> >> who might have offended me. It is ludicrous to think I would, & is not
>> >> the case at all.....& I would hope & like to think the same would
>> >> apply were the roles reversed
>> >> S.
>>
>> >One of the problems with a thread like this one is that it has become so
>> >entangled that it is often difficult to know who actually what wrote
>> >which
>> >words.
>>
>> Bah! I have completely run out of sympathy for Sheelagh on this
>> issue. She seems to run into this problem almost on a daily basis.
>> Above, she is responding to comments directed not toward her, but
>> toward her fellow babbling Brit, Ms. Bookie.
>>
>> The solution is to GET A DECENT NEWSREADER. I am trying out the
>> newest version of Forte Agent, which will cost US$29 if I decide to
>> keep it past the trial period. Another option is Gravity, which
>> doesn't cut the mustard for binary groups but is good enough for
>> general use in discussion groups, and is free to download and use
>> forever. Either would be a huge improvement compared with Google's
>> web interface.
>>
>> Charlie- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I wasn't looking for sympathy Charlie- merely pointing out that I
> didn't understand why my posts were associated with this problem,
> given that I had said nothing to warrant this.
>
> OTOH, thanks for the news regarding Gravity. I will try that. To be
> utterly honest, the only reason that I haven't got one so far is
> because I don't have a credit card @ all. I don't use them, I have to
> deal in cash only.. I did try using outlook express in the days when
> Barry was helpful and accommodating. He took me through it step by
> step, only to find out in the end that I couldn't even use that,
> because if you have hotmail, you have to pay a fee to use outlook
> express as my news reader.(back to square one again!!)
>

Charlie said he will help with Gravity. However, there seems to have been a
misunderstanding concerning Outlook. You can use that as your newsreader,
and it doesn't matter what you use for e-mail. If you had a problem with
Outlook, it should not have been related to your e-mail account. If you're
sure it was, you could try Yahoo. I use Yahoo (also free) for e-mail from
newsgroups, and I use Eudora for "private" e-mail where I don't want to
publish my address. I use Outlook for newsgroups. It certainly isn't the
best, but I don't have any trouble with it, and it continue to use it at
home because that is all the University supports for our offices. It's
easier to use the same setup at both home and office and to vary them
(although I keep "considering" that).

--
MaryL

> If I want to order off the Internet, I have to get someone to order/
> pay on my behalf & I give them the cash required to do this for me.
>
> I didn't particularly want to tell the world about this, but after
> this, I don't think it really matters to me anymore. It's not the
> amount of money that it costs really, it is the embarrassment of
> having to ask! I hope this explains why I haven't done so, so far?
> However, should I get to a point where I can get gravity on this heap
> of [email protected] Pc, would you still be willing to take me through downloading
> Gravity & using it too please?
>
> S;o)
>

Charlie Wilkes
June 7th 07, 04:14 AM
On Wed, 6 Jun 2007 19:51:47 -0500, "MaryL"
-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:

>
>Charlie said he will help with Gravity. However, there seems to have been a
>misunderstanding concerning Outlook. You can use that as your newsreader,
>and it doesn't matter what you use for e-mail. If you had a problem with
>Outlook, it should not have been related to your e-mail account. If you're
>sure it was, you could try Yahoo. I use Yahoo (also free) for e-mail from
>newsgroups, and I use Eudora for "private" e-mail where I don't want to
>publish my address. I use Outlook for newsgroups. It certainly isn't the
>best, but I don't have any trouble with it, and it continue to use it at
>home because that is all the University supports for our offices. It's
>easier to use the same setup at both home and office and to vary them
>(although I keep "considering" that).

The most important features are those that enable the user to view
headers in various ways -- by date, by size, by author, by subject,
and (most important of all) by subject in nested hierarchies. I
suspect that is where Sheelagh keeps having problems with her
attributions... she is looking at a series of posts in the order they
are received by the server, but not examining the structure of a
thread to see how the discussion fits together. it's possible to do
so in the Google web interface, but it's slow and cumbersome, you have
to send a command to the server and then wait while the page reloads,
and wait again if you want to scroll up or down. It's much better to
have all the data on the client PC and work with it that way.

Charlie

-L.
June 7th 07, 07:20 AM
Lis wrote:
> > i heard the one about the woman who bought a coffee from a McDonalds
> > drive-thru, wedged it in between her legs to hold it as she drove off,
> > and when she inevitably spilt it over her ample thighs she sued
> > McDonalds for persoanl injury or something because of the massive
> > scalding and burns to her legs and general 'lady area' she suffered as
> > a result of her own stupidity.
> >
> > I think the lawyers claimed that she had no idea that the coffee was
> > going to be so hot or something incredibly stupid like that. If
> > someone tried that in this country it woudl be laughed out of court,
> > if it even got that fair in the first place, any judge woudl just tell
> > the silly old mare that she should not have been so damn stupid and
> > what she did was her own damn fault.
>
> That's the popular version of the story, promoted by the "tort reform"
> crowd who want to make it prohibitively hard for individuals to sue
> corporations, ever. The reality was rather different.
> A) She wasn't the driver; she was a passenger.
> B)The car was parked, not moving. PARKED, in the designated area of
> the McDonald's lot for drive-up customers.
> C) McDonald's served its coffee 40F hotter than any other major chain.
> People expect coffee to be hot; they don't expect it to be 40F hotter
> than anyone else serves it. McD's had been warned repeatedly that it
> was a problem--including previous lawsuits settled for lower amounts.

IIRC there were 150 reports of serious burns requiring medical
attention from their too-hot coffee.

She was an "older" woman and her thighs were not "ample".


> D) The coffee spilled because the cup lid was defective. McDonald's
> was ALSO on notice that the lids were defective, and had chosen not to
> replace them before that supply ran out--to save money, you see.
>
> McDonald's lost that case in court because the jury was prevented with
> overwhelming evidence that the stupidity and carelessness in the case
> was McDonald's, not the woman's. They did, however, win in the arena
> of public opinion, where trivial things like facts don't matter.'

Yep. She also sued only for her unpaid medical expenses and ended up
getting about 1/5 of what she owed - something like $300K.

-L.

-L.
June 7th 07, 07:24 AM
bookie wrote:
> when i put 'you' i meant 'you the country' not 'you personally' I am
> not daft enough to say that you the indivdiual has declawed their cat
> cos I dontl knwo whether you have or not, i cannot remember whether
> certain individuals have or not, i dontl take that much notice
> bookie

Only about 6% of owned cats in the US are declawed. That's a very
small percentage of all cats in the US.

-L.

-L.
June 7th 07, 07:35 AM
bookie wrote:

> sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
> seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the world
> think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant warmongerers?

Hummm...I thought the Brits had cornered the market on being perceived
as inbred...what with the monarchy and all.

I hate to be the one to enlighten you, but the vast majority of US
citizens are against war at the moment...

> were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at you all
> and think you're all morons? ignorance is bliss isn't it?

No, ignorance is being a bigot. I think you have now reached imbicile
status.

> at least we
> brits can laugh at ourselves when required,

Like when looking in the mirror? Afterall, Brits are know for their
"homeliness".

> we can take a bit of a dig
> at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society as far
> from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>
> anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to be not
> even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you expect when
> you reply to people in the tones you have been above

I suggest you take your advice.

>
> dear oh dear oh dear

Been to a dentist lately?

-L.
(BTW....Who found this chick, and a better question is WHY?)

reeper[_2_]
June 7th 07, 10:20 AM
the fact that it was about her pussy was SHOCKING
so sure to give her a win with any jury
any men on the jury are thinking about her pussy
any women on the jury are thinking about the pain
win win win

it had to be a pussy is my point
even an older one

now if a man burnt his stuff, do you think we would get paid? noooo

"-L." > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Lis wrote:
> > > i heard the one about the woman who bought a coffee from a McDonalds
> > > drive-thru, wedged it in between her legs to hold it as she drove off,
> > > and when she inevitably spilt it over her ample thighs she sued
> > > McDonalds for persoanl injury or something because of the massive
> > > scalding and burns to her legs and general 'lady area' she suffered as
> > > a result of her own stupidity.
> > >
> > > I think the lawyers claimed that she had no idea that the coffee was
> > > going to be so hot or something incredibly stupid like that. If
> > > someone tried that in this country it woudl be laughed out of court,
> > > if it even got that fair in the first place, any judge woudl just tell
> > > the silly old mare that she should not have been so damn stupid and
> > > what she did was her own damn fault.
> >
> > That's the popular version of the story, promoted by the "tort reform"
> > crowd who want to make it prohibitively hard for individuals to sue
> > corporations, ever. The reality was rather different.
> > A) She wasn't the driver; she was a passenger.
> > B)The car was parked, not moving. PARKED, in the designated area of
> > the McDonald's lot for drive-up customers.
> > C) McDonald's served its coffee 40F hotter than any other major chain.
> > People expect coffee to be hot; they don't expect it to be 40F hotter
> > than anyone else serves it. McD's had been warned repeatedly that it
> > was a problem--including previous lawsuits settled for lower amounts.
>
> IIRC there were 150 reports of serious burns requiring medical
> attention from their too-hot coffee.
>
> She was an "older" woman and her thighs were not "ample".
>
>
> > D) The coffee spilled because the cup lid was defective. McDonald's
> > was ALSO on notice that the lids were defective, and had chosen not to
> > replace them before that supply ran out--to save money, you see.
> >
> > McDonald's lost that case in court because the jury was prevented with
> > overwhelming evidence that the stupidity and carelessness in the case
> > was McDonald's, not the woman's. They did, however, win in the arena
> > of public opinion, where trivial things like facts don't matter.'
>
> Yep. She also sued only for her unpaid medical expenses and ended up
> getting about 1/5 of what she owed - something like $300K.
>
> -L.
>

bookie
June 7th 07, 04:05 PM
On 6 Jun, 23:48, Charlie Wilkes >
wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:27:30 -0700, bookie >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >what? you had to clarify the record about the falklands conflict? i
> >doubt that somehow
>
> Read back in the thread, assuming you can follow it. Your comment was
> that Americans aren't worthy for you to so much as wipe your feet on,
> which led to Fred G. Mackey's (quite reasonable) comment that the
> Falklands war was a sad adventure aimed at preserving the last vestige
> of British imperial pride, which led to your defensive and wholly
> unreasonable tirade about Bush and Iraq and how Americans don't know
> anything about history. In fact, America MAKES the history that
> others merely read about and watch on TV. That stings, doesn't it?
>
> Charlie

not really, you are going by the idea that any news is good news, I
wouldn't want to be responsible or even associated with the kind of
'history' that america makes, how can you be proud of it war and
destruction started and exacerbated by americans on other people's
soil? at least with the falkalnds the troops went there to protect
british subjects on british soil, hardly comparable with US troops
going into vietnam and other excursions in to the middle east.

bookie
June 7th 07, 04:07 PM
On 7 Jun, 07:35, "-L." > wrote:
> bookie wrote:
> > sooooooooooooo sorry you americans take yourselves so bloody
> > seriously, were you not aware that pretty much the rest of the world
> > think you as a nation are a bunch of inbred, ignorant warmongerers?
>
> Hummm...I thought the Brits had cornered the market on being perceived
> as inbred...what with the monarchy and all.
>
> I hate to be the one to enlighten you, but the vast majority of US
> citizens are against war at the moment...
>
> > were you not aware of how much the rest of the world laughs at you all
> > and think you're all morons? ignorance is bliss isn't it?
>
> No, ignorance is being a bigot. I think you have now reached imbicile
> status.
>
> > at least we
> > brits can laugh at ourselves when required,
>
> Like when looking in the mirror? Afterall, Brits are know for their
> "homeliness".
>
> > we can take a bit of a dig
> > at the way we live and admit that some aspects of our society as far
> > from perfect, can't say teh same about you yanks.
>
> > anyway, no law against hating americans and considering them to be not
> > even worthy enough for me to wipe my feet on? what do you expect when
> > you reply to people in the tones you have been above
>
> I suggest you take your advice.
>
>
>
> > dear oh dear oh dear
>
> Been to a dentist lately?
>
> -L.
> (BTW....Who found this chick, and a better question is WHY?)

yeah exactly, who found you and under what rock?

-L.
June 7th 07, 04:57 PM
bookie wrote:
>
> yeah exactly, who found you and under what rock?

Honey, I was probably here before you were born.
You are probably the only person here who doesn't know me.

-L.

-L.
June 7th 07, 05:07 PM
bookie wrote:
> not really, you are going by the idea that any news is good news, I
> wouldn't want to be responsible or even associated with the kind of
> 'history' that america makes, how can you be proud of it war and
> destruction started and exacerbated by americans on other people's
> soil?

What makes you think all Americans agree with US foreign policy? Most
of us do not. But if you were at all educated in foreign affairs, you
would know this.


>at least with the falkalnds the troops went there to protect
> british subjects on british soil, hardly comparable with US troops
> going into vietnam and other excursions in to the middle east.

Evidently you have never heard of India and the Phillipines (to name a
few)?

-L.

bookie
June 8th 07, 12:24 AM
On 7 Jun, 16:57, "-L." > wrote:
> bookie wrote:
>
> > yeah exactly, who found you and under what rock?
>
> Honey, I was probably here before you were born.
> You are probably the only person here who doesn't know me.
>
> -L.

and yet again you don't understand irony or someone simply taking the
****

you just support all my views so well

Charlie Wilkes
June 8th 07, 01:43 AM
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 16:24:34 -0700, bookie >
wrote:

>On 7 Jun, 16:57, "-L." > wrote:
>> bookie wrote:
>>
>> > yeah exactly, who found you and under what rock?
>>
>> Honey, I was probably here before you were born.
>> You are probably the only person here who doesn't know me.
>>
>> -L.
>
>and yet again you don't understand irony or someone simply taking the
>****
>
>you just support all my views so well

I'm so glad you two have finally run into each other. Bookie, say
hello to Lyn, the group psycho. (Very knowledgable about cats
though.) Lyn, meet Bookie, sex-starved and ultar-****ed-off queen of
transposition errors. There is a nice, wide ocean separating the two
of you, so with luck the police won't have to get involved, this time.

Charlie

Rhonda
June 8th 07, 06:11 AM
bookie wrote:
> On 6 Jun, 23:48, Charlie Wilkes >
> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:27:30 -0700, bookie >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>what? you had to clarify the record about the falklands conflict? i
>>>doubt that somehow
>>
>>Read back in the thread, assuming you can follow it. Your comment was
>>that Americans aren't worthy for you to so much as wipe your feet on,
>>which led to Fred G. Mackey's (quite reasonable) comment that the
>>Falklands war was a sad adventure aimed at preserving the last vestige
>>of British imperial pride, which led to your defensive and wholly
>>unreasonable tirade about Bush and Iraq and how Americans don't know
>>anything about history. In fact, America MAKES the history that
>>others merely read about and watch on TV. That stings, doesn't it?
>>
>>Charlie
>
> not really, you are going by the idea that any news is good news, I
> wouldn't want to be responsible or even associated with the kind of
> 'history' that america makes, how can you be proud of it war and
> destruction started and exacerbated by americans on other people's
> soil? at least with the falkalnds the troops went there to protect
> british subjects on british soil, hardly comparable with US troops
> going into vietnam and other excursions in to the middle east.


Bookie,

Most people here are against the war, and many of us shook our heads in
disbelief that it was allowed to happen. I wish to gawd that England
wouldn't have agreed whole-heartedly with it. Maybe without another
major country's support (like yours,) Bush would have had a much tougher
time going through with it.

Personally, I am not going to vote for someone for president who voted
to have this war. It's easy to see what a mistake it is now and jump on
that bandwagon, but I want to know if they saw how ridiculous it was at
the beginning.

Rhonda

-L.
June 8th 07, 12:29 PM
Charlie Wilkes wrote:
> I'm so glad you two have finally run into each other. Bookie, say
> hello to Lyn, the group psycho.

yes, you hang your cat, tie your dog up and starve her for 3 days as
punishment for running off, and *I* am the psycho. Whatever, Charlie.

(Very knowledgable about cats
> though.) Lyn, meet Bookie, sex-starved and ultar-****ed-off queen of
> transposition errors. There is a nice, wide ocean separating the two
> of you, so with luck the police won't have to get involved, this time.

You're just lucky you never got a phone call.

-L.

bookie
June 8th 07, 02:31 PM
On 8 Jun, 06:11, Rhonda > wrote:
> bookie wrote:
> > On 6 Jun, 23:48, Charlie Wilkes >
> > wrote:
>
> >>On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:27:30 -0700, bookie >
> >>wrote:
>
> >>>what? you had to clarify the record about the falklands conflict? i
> >>>doubt that somehow
>
> >>Read back in the thread, assuming you can follow it. Your comment was
> >>that Americans aren't worthy for you to so much as wipe your feet on,
> >>which led to Fred G. Mackey's (quite reasonable) comment that the
> >>Falklands war was a sad adventure aimed at preserving the last vestige
> >>of British imperial pride, which led to your defensive and wholly
> >>unreasonable tirade about Bush and Iraq and how Americans don't know
> >>anything about history. In fact, America MAKES the history that
> >>others merely read about and watch on TV. That stings, doesn't it?
>
> >>Charlie
>
> > not really, you are going by the idea that any news is good news, I
> > wouldn't want to be responsible or even associated with the kind of
> > 'history' that america makes, how can you be proud of it war and
> > destruction started and exacerbated by americans on other people's
> > soil? at least with the falkalnds the troops went there to protect
> > british subjects on british soil, hardly comparable with US troops
> > going into vietnam and other excursions in to the middle east.
>
> Bookie,
>
> Most people here are against the war, and many of us shook our heads in
> disbelief that it was allowed to happen. I wish to gawd that England
> wouldn't have agreed whole-heartedly with it. Maybe without another
> major country's support (like yours,) Bush would have had a much tougher
> time going through with it.
>
> Personally, I am not going to vote for someone for president who voted
> to have this war. It's easy to see what a mistake it is now and jump on
> that bandwagon, but I want to know if they saw how ridiculous it was at
> the beginning.
>
> Rhonda- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

glad to hear it

bookie
June 8th 07, 02:31 PM
On 8 Jun, 12:29, "-L." > wrote:
> Charlie Wilkes wrote:
> > I'm so glad you two have finally run into each other. Bookie, say
> > hello to Lyn, the group psycho.
>
> yes, you hang your cat, tie your dog up and starve her for 3 days as
> punishment for running off, and *I* am the psycho. Whatever, Charlie.
>
> (Very knowledgable about cats
>
> > though.) Lyn, meet Bookie, sex-starved and ultar-****ed-off queen of
> > transposition errors. There is a nice, wide ocean separating the two
> > of you, so with luck the police won't have to get involved, this time.
>
> You're just lucky you never got a phone call.
>
> -L.

ha ha!

Charlie Wilkes
June 8th 07, 08:32 PM
On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 05:11:39 GMT, Rhonda >
wrote:
>
>Bookie,
>
>Most people here are against the war, and many of us shook our heads in
>disbelief that it was allowed to happen. I wish to gawd that England
>wouldn't have agreed whole-heartedly with it. Maybe without another
>major country's support (like yours,) Bush would have had a much tougher
>time going through with it.
>
>Personally, I am not going to vote for someone for president who voted
>to have this war. It's easy to see what a mistake it is now and jump on
>that bandwagon, but I want to know if they saw how ridiculous it was at
>the beginning.
>
>Rhonda
>

You're pretty glum, Rhonda. I admit, I was against the war at first,
but I have come to realize that it is not going to end any time soon,
so I might as well learn to like it. Go Dubya! Let's kill some more
terrorists!

It's all about positive thinking.

Charlie

reeper
June 8th 07, 10:38 PM
On Jun 8, 9:31 am, bookie > wrote:

>
> ha ha!- Hide quoted text -

you've got too much knowledge bookie

are you telling me you know anything about what happened?
you know what charlie is tookingt bout?

you laugh like you know what he's saying

I haven't seen the punchline come up yet

so, what is it that you would like to tell us?

not you, shebelagh, or cyber responded to my theory
you know which one

anyway

im ****ing cramping from being in the sun
the hell do I need to eat or drink?

I know what I need, but what is it that will knock the cramps
oh great wave master (bookie rows a boat for a living)

reeper
June 8th 07, 10:57 PM
On Jun 8, 3:32 pm, Charlie Wilkes >
wrote:

> You're pretty glum, Rhonda. I admit, I was against the war at first,
> but I have come to realize that it is not going to end any time soon,
> so I might as well learn to like it. Go Dubya! Let's kill some more
> terrorists!
>
> It's all about positive thinking.


I can[t bbelieve he's still in office
isn't his 8 years done yet? whew
call him an oppurtunist

****ing 30 billion dollar war, I just pulled that number out of
nowhere

there can't be much more money than this

do I hear fiddy?

sheelagh
June 9th 07, 01:44 AM
On 8 Jun, 22:38, reeper > wrote:
> On Jun 8, 9:31 am, bookie > wrote:
>
>
>
> > ha ha!- Hide quoted text -
>
> you've got too much knowledge bookie
>
> are you telling me you know anything about what happened?
> you know what charlie is tookingt bout?
>
> you laugh like you know what he's saying
>
> I haven't seen the punchline come up yet
>
> so, what is it that you would like to tell us?
>
> not you, shebelagh, or cyber responded to my theory
> you know which one
>
> anyway
>
> im ****ing cramping from being in the sun
> the hell do I need to eat or drink?
>
> I know what I need, but what is it that will knock the cramps
> oh great wave master (bookie rows a boat for a living)

I'm not Shebelagh.
You know who that is already..!
S;o)

reeper
June 9th 07, 08:20 AM
On Jun 8, 8:44 pm, sheelagh > wrote:

> I'm not Shebelagh.
> You know who that is already..!
> S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I take that back
hmmm

reeper[_2_]
June 9th 07, 03:36 PM
the cramps the cramps! what about the cramps

"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On 8 Jun, 22:38, reeper > wrote:
> > On Jun 8, 9:31 am, bookie > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > ha ha!- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > you've got too much knowledge bookie
> >
> > are you telling me you know anything about what happened?
> > you know what charlie is tookingt bout?
> >
> > you laugh like you know what he's saying
> >
> > I haven't seen the punchline come up yet
> >
> > so, what is it that you would like to tell us?
> >
> > not you, shebelagh, or cyber responded to my theory
> > you know which one
> >
> > anyway
> >
> > im ****ing cramping from being in the sun
> > the hell do I need to eat or drink?
> >
> > I know what I need, but what is it that will knock the cramps
> > oh great wave master (bookie rows a boat for a living)
>
> I'm not Shebelagh.
> You know who that is already..!
> S;o)
>

sheelagh
June 9th 07, 03:41 PM
On 9 Jun, 15:36, "reeper" > wrote:
> the cramps the cramps! what about the cramps
>
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
> > On 8 Jun, 22:38, reeper > wrote:
> > > On Jun 8, 9:31 am, bookie > wrote:
>
> > > > ha ha!- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > you've got too much knowledge bookie
>
> > > are you telling me you know anything about what happened?
> > > you know what charlie is tookingt bout?
>
> > > you laugh like you know what he's saying
>
> > > I haven't seen the punchline come up yet
>
> > > so, what is it that you would like to tell us?
>
> > > not you, shebelagh, or cyber responded to my theory
> > > you know which one
>
> > > anyway
>
> > > im ****ing cramping from being in the sun
> > > the hell do I need to eat or drink?
>
> > > I know what I need, but what is it that will knock the cramps
> > > oh great wave master (bookie rows a boat for a living)
>
> > I'm not Shebelagh.
> > You know who that is already..!
> > S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I don't get PMT, or cramps, or anything associated with so I'm not
the right person to ask mate...
S;o)

reeper[_2_]
June 9th 07, 03:55 PM
what is pmt?

sheelagh
June 9th 07, 04:11 PM
On 9 Jun, 15:55, "reeper" > wrote:
> what is pmt?




> what is pmt?

PRE MESTURAL TENSION,
I think we have different ways of saying the same thing,
you call it PMs, so I assume( rightly or wrongly), that S stands for
Stress?

Or is it called pre estrous cycle...?I'm not sure of the correct
spelling, sorry!
Who knows?
S;o)

Matthew
June 9th 07, 04:34 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On 9 Jun, 15:55, "reeper" > wrote:
>> what is pmt?
>
>
>
>
>> what is pmt?
>
> PRE MESTURAL TENSION,
> I think we have different ways of saying the same thing,
> you call it PMs, so I assume( rightly or wrongly), that S stands for
> Stress?
>
> Or is it called pre estrous cycle...?I'm not sure of the correct
> spelling, sorry!
> Who knows?
> S;o)
>
Pre menstrual symptoms
OR run away the [email protected] has got a gun
OR its that time of the month I will be fishing

sheelagh
June 9th 07, 04:53 PM
On 9 Jun, 16:34, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
>
>
> > On 9 Jun, 15:55, "reeper" > wrote:
> >> what is pmt?
>
> >> what is pmt?
>
> > PRE MESTURAL TENSION,
> > I think we have different ways of saying the same thing,
> > you call it PMs, so I assume( rightly or wrongly), that S stands for
> > Stress?
>
> > Or is it called pre estrous cycle...?I'm not sure of the correct
> > spelling, sorry!
> > Who knows?
> > S;o)
>
> Pre menstrual symptoms
> OR run away the [email protected] has got a gun
> OR its that time of the month I will be fishing- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

ROFLOL's

Matthew, you are so right. But I don't get them so you are fairly safe
mate.
I got a text today that made me laugh....

It finally all makes sense....I never looked @ it this way before.
MENtal illness, Menstrual cramp, MENtal breakdown MENopause,
GUYnecologist, & when we Really have trouble it's a HISterectomy!!!

Good hey?
S:o)

finding my inner Jew
June 9th 07, 04:56 PM
On Jun 9, 10:41 am, sheelagh > wrote:
> I don't get PMT, or cramps, or anything associated with so I'm not
> the right person to ask mate...

that requires a uterus

Matthew
June 9th 07, 05:00 PM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On 9 Jun, 16:34, "Matthew" > wrote:
>> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>>
>> oups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 9 Jun, 15:55, "reeper" > wrote:
>> >> what is pmt?
>>
>> >> what is pmt?
>>
>> > PRE MESTURAL TENSION,
>> > I think we have different ways of saying the same thing,
>> > you call it PMs, so I assume( rightly or wrongly), that S stands for
>> > Stress?
>>
>> > Or is it called pre estrous cycle...?I'm not sure of the correct
>> > spelling, sorry!
>> > Who knows?
>> > S;o)
>>
>> Pre menstrual symptoms
>> OR run away the [email protected] has got a gun
>> OR its that time of the month I will be fishing- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> ROFLOL's
>
> Matthew, you are so right. But I don't get them so you are fairly safe
> mate.
> I got a text today that made me laugh....
>
> It finally all makes sense....I never looked @ it this way before.
> MENtal illness, Menstrual cramp, MENtal breakdown MENopause,
> GUYnecologist, & when we Really have trouble it's a HISterectomy!!!
>
> Good hey?
> S:o)
>

LOL

sheelagh
June 9th 07, 05:14 PM
On 9 Jun, 16:56, finding my inner Jew > wrote:
> On Jun 9, 10:41 am, sheelagh > wrote:
>
> > I don't get PMT, or cramps, or anything associated with so I'm not
> > the right person to ask mate...
>
> that requires a uterus

How would you know.....

bookie
June 9th 07, 05:22 PM
On 9 Jun, 15:36, "reeper" > wrote:
> the cramps the cramps! what about the cramps
>
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
> > On 8 Jun, 22:38, reeper > wrote:
> > > On Jun 8, 9:31 am, bookie > wrote:
>
> > > > ha ha!- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > you've got too much knowledge bookie
>
> > > are you telling me you know anything about what happened?
> > > you know what charlie is tookingt bout?
>
> > > you laugh like you know what he's saying
>
> > > I haven't seen the punchline come up yet
>
> > > so, what is it that you would like to tell us?
>
> > > not you, shebelagh, or cyber responded to my theory
> > > you know which one
>
> > > anyway
>
> > > im ****ing cramping from being in the sun
> > > the hell do I need to eat or drink?
>
> > > I know what I need, but what is it that will knock the cramps
> > > oh great wave master (bookie rows a boat for a living)
>
> > I'm not Shebelagh.
> > You know who that is already..!
> > S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

how the hell would I know? do you mean cramps as in muscle cramps in
your legs? usually a sign that you are dehydrated and possibly also
have sweated out too many salts etc, best thing is to drink something
like lucozade (gatorade? I think that is the version you have in the
US) or one of those sports drink which have sodium in them because
that is really what your body is lacking.
if you can;t get hold of any of that then try plain water with a
couple of teaspoons of sugar in it and maybe half a teaspoon of salt
in it too, it wil taste really weird but that is what you need

is that what you mean?
also stay out of the sun, really not good for you, stay in the shade
with your kitty cats

bookie

finding my inner Jew
June 9th 07, 05:24 PM
On Jun 9, 12:22 pm, bookie > wrote:
> On 9 Jun, 15:36, "reeper" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > the cramps the cramps! what about the cramps
>
> > "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > > On 8 Jun, 22:38, reeper > wrote:
> > > > On Jun 8, 9:31 am, bookie > wrote:
>
> > > > > ha ha!- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > you've got too much knowledge bookie
>
> > > > are you telling me you know anything about what happened?
> > > > you know what charlie is tookingt bout?
>
> > > > you laugh like you know what he's saying
>
> > > > I haven't seen the punchline come up yet
>
> > > > so, what is it that you would like to tell us?
>
> > > > not you, shebelagh, or cyber responded to my theory
> > > > you know which one
>
> > > > anyway
>
> > > > im ****ing cramping from being in the sun
> > > > the hell do I need to eat or drink?
>
> > > > I know what I need, but what is it that will knock the cramps
> > > > oh great wave master (bookie rows a boat for a living)
>
> > > I'm not Shebelagh.
> > > You know who that is already..!
> > > S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> how the hell would I know? do you mean cramps as in muscle cramps in
> your legs? usually a sign that you are dehydrated and possibly also
> have sweated out too many salts etc, best thing is to drink something
> like lucozade (gatorade? I think that is the version you have in the
> US) or one of those sports drink which have sodium in them because
> that is really what your body is lacking.
> if you can;t get hold of any of that then try plain water with a
> couple of teaspoons of sugar in it and maybe half a teaspoon of salt
> in it too, it wil taste really weird but that is what you need
>
> is that what you mean?
> also stay out of the sun, really not good for you, stay in the shade
> with your kitty cats
>
> bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

WOW

You Brit "ladies" are truly THICK, aren't you?

I'm replying to an ignorant prick
June 9th 07, 05:35 PM
On 9 Jun, 17:24, finding my inner Jew > wrote:
> On Jun 9, 12:22 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 9 Jun, 15:36, "reeper" > wrote:
>
> > > the cramps the cramps! what about the cramps
>
> > > "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> > ups.com...
>
> > > > On 8 Jun, 22:38, reeper > wrote:
> > > > > On Jun 8, 9:31 am, bookie > wrote:
>
> > > > > > ha ha!- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > you've got too much knowledge bookie
>
> > > > > are you telling me you know anything about what happened?
> > > > > you know what charlie is tookingt bout?
>
> > > > > you laugh like you know what he's saying
>
> > > > > I haven't seen the punchline come up yet
>
> > > > > so, what is it that you would like to tell us?
>
> > > > > not you, shebelagh, or cyber responded to my theory
> > > > > you know which one
>
> > > > > anyway
>
> > > > > im ****ing cramping from being in the sun
> > > > > the hell do I need to eat or drink?
>
> > > > > I know what I need, but what is it that will knock the cramps
> > > > > oh great wave master (bookie rows a boat for a living)
>
> > > > I'm not Shebelagh.
> > > > You know who that is already..!
> > > > S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > how the hell would I know? do you mean cramps as in muscle cramps in
> > your legs? usually a sign that you are dehydrated and possibly also
> > have sweated out too many salts etc, best thing is to drink something
> > like lucozade (gatorade? I think that is the version you have in the
> > US) or one of those sports drink which have sodium in them because
> > that is really what your body is lacking.
> > if you can;t get hold of any of that then try plain water with a
> > couple of teaspoons of sugar in it and maybe half a teaspoon of salt
> > in it too, it wil taste really weird but that is what you need
>
> > is that what you mean?
> > also stay out of the sun, really not good for you, stay in the shade
> > with your kitty cats
>
> > bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> WOW
>
> You Brit "ladies" are truly THICK, aren't you?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Actually, I class you as nothing better than something to wipe off the
bottom of my shoe. However, you are the only person on Usenet that I
feel this way about. I feel sorry if you think you are "normal".

Antisemitism is disgusting by the way...

sheelagh
June 9th 07, 05:42 PM
On 9 Jun, 17:22, bookie > wrote:
> On 9 Jun, 15:36, "reeper" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > the cramps the cramps! what about the cramps
>
> > "sheelagh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > > On 8 Jun, 22:38, reeper > wrote:
> > > > On Jun 8, 9:31 am, bookie > wrote:
>
> > > > > ha ha!- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > you've got too much knowledge bookie
>
> > > > are you telling me you know anything about what happened?
> > > > you know what charlie is tookingt bout?
>
> > > > you laugh like you know what he's saying
>
> > > > I haven't seen the punchline come up yet
>
> > > > so, what is it that you would like to tell us?
>
> > > > not you, shebelagh, or cyber responded to my theory
> > > > you know which one
>
> > > > anyway
>
> > > > im ****ing cramping from being in the sun
> > > > the hell do I need to eat or drink?
>
> > > > I know what I need, but what is it that will knock the cramps
> > > > oh great wave master (bookie rows a boat for a living)
>
> > > I'm not Shebelagh.
> > > You know who that is already..!
> > > S;o)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> how the hell would I know? do you mean cramps as in muscle cramps in
> your legs? usually a sign that you are dehydrated and possibly also
> have sweated out too many salts etc, best thing is to drink something
> like lucozade (gatorade? I think that is the version you have in the
> US) or one of those sports drink which have sodium in them because
> that is really what your body is lacking.
> if you can;t get hold of any of that then try plain water with a
> couple of teaspoons of sugar in it and maybe half a teaspoon of salt
> in it too, it wil taste really weird but that is what you need
>
> is that what you mean?
> also stay out of the sun, really not good for you, stay in the shade
> with your kitty cats
>
> bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

My mother used to swear by flat coke. I can see why now...

Yes, all of the kitty's have the use of the oscillating fan, whilst we
hang out of the upstairs windows in the hope that we might catch a
passing breeze..
The things we do for our pussy cats!!
S;o)

reeper
June 9th 07, 06:18 PM
On Jun 9, 12:22 pm, bookie > wrote:

> is that what you mean?
> also stay out of the sun, really not good for you, stay in the shade
> with your kitty cats

yeah, my hamstrings feel like thick rubber, I can induce cramps if I
use them while my knees are bent...

soo, sure, we have about 10 flavors of gatorade.

yeah, I did sweat a lot, my clothes including my shorts was soaked

Matthew
June 9th 07, 06:31 PM
"reeper" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Jun 9, 12:22 pm, bookie > wrote:
>
>> is that what you mean?
>> also stay out of the sun, really not good for you, stay in the shade
>> with your kitty cats
>
> yeah, my hamstrings feel like thick rubber, I can induce cramps if I
> use them while my knees are bent...
>
> soo, sure, we have about 10 flavors of gatorade.
>
> yeah, I did sweat a lot, my clothes including my shorts was soaked
>
>

no comment on why your knees hurt while they are bent ;-)

reeper
June 9th 07, 06:49 PM
On Jun 9, 1:31 pm, "Matthew" > wrote:

> no comment on why your knees hurt while they are bent ;-)

haha
it's not my knees, its my hamstrings

hopefully bookies advice will work
im having 2 more drinks now

it's over 100 deg out so far, whew

finding my inner Jew
June 9th 07, 07:12 PM
On Jun 9, 12:35 pm, > wrote:
>
> Actually, I class you as nothing better than something to wipe off the
> bottom of my shoe.

You must be in love with me. That's why you can't shut up about me.

> Antisemitism is disgusting by the way...

What is "antisemitic" about trying to discover your inner Jew?

bookie
June 10th 07, 01:04 AM
On 9 Jun, 18:49, reeper > wrote:
> On Jun 9, 1:31 pm, "Matthew" > wrote:
>
> > no comment on why your knees hurt while they are bent ;-)
>
> haha
> it's not my knees, its my hamstrings
>
> hopefully bookies advice will work
> im having 2 more drinks now
>
> it's over 100 deg out so far, whew

exercising, or whatever it is that you are doing (kindly keep that to
yoursefl though) in such heat is a bit daft, unless you absolutely
have to and are regularly rehydrating yourself with proper drinks.
just water is actually not good enuogh as you lose salts and
electrolytes in your sweat quickly and that is why sports drinks liek
lucozade sport are better as they have sodium etc in them to replace
these lost salts and prevent cramp casued by this loss. they also have
glucose to replace lost energy.

so yes flat coke, preferably with a smidgeon of salt in it woudl
probably be good for cramps.

talk about off topic

sheelagh
June 10th 07, 02:04 AM
On 10 Jun, 01:04, bookie > wrote:
> On 9 Jun, 18:49, reeper > wrote:
>
> > On Jun 9, 1:31 pm, "Matthew" > wrote:
>
> > > no comment on why your knees hurt while they are bent ;-)
>
> > haha
> > it's not my knees, its my hamstrings
>
> > hopefully bookies advice will work
> > im having 2 more drinks now
>
> > it's over 100 deg out so far, whew
>
> exercising, or whatever it is that you are doing (kindly keep that to
> yoursefl though) in such heat is a bit daft, unless you absolutely
> have to and are regularly rehydrating yourself with proper drinks.
> just water is actually not good enuogh as you lose salts and
> electrolytes in your sweat quickly and that is why sports drinks liek
> lucozade sport are better as they have sodium etc in them to replace
> these lost salts and prevent cramp casued by this loss. they also have
> glucose to replace lost energy.
>
> so yes flat coke, preferably with a smidgeon of salt in it woudl
> probably be good for cramps.
>
> talk about off topic

Very true indeed...& probably my fault for entertaining the fool.

My apologies. I know better than to allow this off topic creature
luring me into responding, but dropped my guard.(yes...again) If he
wants to think these things about me, or the British, then let him. He
simply is not important enough for me to care what it feels(if it
can?).. I shouldn't have allowed him to poke at me, so blame myself
entirely. I am far too good for him! I know it too; speaking of which,
we are all far too good for him, which is why his ineffectual, self
inflicted chest thumping is one of his sadder pass times.....

It certainly is nothing to do with his cat. apparently he only eats
them. How vulgar can he get.......?!!!

I wonder if the same applies to cats/queens when in mating season?
(needing supplements of glucose & saline solution to reduce body
cramps. I don't know).....

I used to feed my queens on kitten food, & extra lashings of Cimi Cat
to help with milk production & maintain body mass whilst pregnant &
nursing.....
I've never had cause to ponder this before, which is something I
should have done really!!

S;o)

Rhonda
June 10th 07, 02:05 AM
sheelagh wrote:
> On 9 Jun, 15:55, "reeper" > wrote:
>
>>what is pmt?
>
>>what is pmt?
>
> PRE MESTURAL TENSION,
> I think we have different ways of saying the same thing,
> you call it PMs, so I assume( rightly or wrongly), that S stands for
> Stress?

Nope, it stands for "syndrome."

Rhonda

Rhonda
June 10th 07, 02:11 AM
Charlie Wilkes wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 05:11:39 GMT, Rhonda >
> wrote:
>
>>Bookie,
>>
>>Most people here are against the war, and many of us shook our heads in
>>disbelief that it was allowed to happen. I wish to gawd that England
>>wouldn't have agreed whole-heartedly with it. Maybe without another
>>major country's support (like yours,) Bush would have had a much tougher
>>time going through with it.
>>
>>Personally, I am not going to vote for someone for president who voted
>>to have this war. It's easy to see what a mistake it is now and jump on
>>that bandwagon, but I want to know if they saw how ridiculous it was at
>>the beginning.
>>
>>Rhonda
>
> You're pretty glum, Rhonda. I admit, I was against the war at first,
> but I have come to realize that it is not going to end any time soon,
> so I might as well learn to like it. Go Dubya! Let's kill some more
> terrorists!
>
> It's all about positive thinking.

You could be right. Maybe the sun really will come out tomorrow.

Rhonda

PS -- Dubya met the Pope today. I'm sure the Pontiff was shocked and awed.

reeper[_2_]
June 10th 07, 02:12 AM
"bookie" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On 9 Jun, 18:49, reeper > wrote:
> > On Jun 9, 1:31 pm, "Matthew" > wrote:
> >
> so yes flat coke, preferably with a smidgeon of salt in it woudl
> probably be good for cramps.
>
> talk about off topic

I do have to work to feed the cats, so in a way.. I think it's ok

yeah, mo gatorade is in order
glucose, electrolytes, etc.. yeah

it was only 100 deg in the shade.

sheelagh
June 10th 07, 02:12 AM
On 10 Jun, 02:05, Rhonda > wrote:
> sheelagh wrote:
> > On 9 Jun, 15:55, "reeper" > wrote:
>
> >>what is pmt?
>
> >>what is pmt?
>
> > PRE MESTURAL TENSION,
> > I think we have different ways of saying the same thing,
> > you call it PMs, so I assume( rightly or wrongly), that S stands for
> > Stress?
>
> Nope, it stands for "syndrome."
>
> Rhonda

Thank you for clearing that up Rhonda
I still find it strange that we all speak the same language, yet there
are so many different nuances in between us....
S;o)

reeper[_2_]
June 10th 07, 02:27 AM
"sheelagh" > wrote in message
> Thank you for clearing that up Rhonda
> I still find it strange that we all speak the same language, yet there
> are so many different nuances in between us....

don't you mean nuisances?

sheelagh
June 10th 07, 03:11 AM
On 10 Jun, 02:27, "reeper" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" > wrote in message
> > Thank you for clearing that up Rhonda
> > I still find it strange that we all speak the same language, yet there
> > are so many different nuances in between us....
>
> don't you mean nuisances?

No...I don't.
If I meant that, I would have said that.
S.

Charlie Wilkes
June 10th 07, 06:37 AM
On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 01:11:30 GMT, Rhonda >
wrote:
>
>PS -- Dubya met the Pope today. I'm sure the Pontiff was shocked and awed.
>
>
White House insiders say it was a "good meeting." Bush gave the pope
a walking stick made by a homeless man. The pope regaled Bush with
nostalgic tales from his childhood as a swastika-waving Hitler
Youth... "the world seemed simpler then... but easy certainties
evaporated beneath an onslaught of Russian steel... at last I found
solace in religion."

"Me too," said Bush. "For me it was DTs that did it."

"Ach! But it has served us well, no?"

The only awkward moment occurred when Bush addressed the pope as "sir"
rather than "your holiness." But overall, the chemistry was superb.

Charlie