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View Full Version : How do other People Feel about the subject of cat enclosures.


sheelagh[_2_]
August 22nd 07, 05:03 PM
For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never really
arisen.
As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in fact, I
have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other people
view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
majority in this group are from the USA.
I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
eases that guilt somewhat.

When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you lost
the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to tell
people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's, it
seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost guarantee
will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?

Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only out
into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that I
only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like to
take that risk.
I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder if
you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
feel about them please?
TIA,
Sheelagh >"o"<

--
Sheelagh >"o"<

Message posted via http://www.catkb.com

cindys
August 22nd 07, 05:34 PM
"sheelagh" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
> USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
> people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never
> really
> arisen.
----------
Very few people in the USA have cat enclosures. We either keep the cats
inside or let the cats out. None of the cat rescue groups will adopt out a
cat unless the wannabe slave first signs an agreement to keep the cat inside
at all times (and not to declaw). As time goes on, more and more people
belong to the "inside only" mindset. However, I doubt any of the rescue
groups would object to an enclosure. The only reason I don't let my older
cats out into our fenced yard (these are senior cats who could never jump
the fence) is that outside = fleas. In all the years I have had cats, the
only times I have ever had problems with fleas was when we were living in an
apartment building and someone else's cat went outside and brought them into
the building and on two other occasions when we brought in foster cats from
the rescue agency. And I have never treated my cats for fleas as a
precaution. I have done so only on the couple of occasions where there was a
bonafide flea problem.

In the first situation, once the fleas were in the building, we could not
get rid of them. This was in the days before Revolution et al and our cats
were forced to endure several flea "dips" only to have fleas again within
the week. The apartment was flea-bombed and the carpets and furniture were
treated by an exterminator every six weeks! And to no avail. After a year
and a half of this, the only way we escaped the fleas was to buy a house and
move out of the apartment. I had the new house pre-exterminated (before we
moved in), and I also had the exterminator treat the furniture one last
time. I never want to endure that ordeal again.

All of my five current cats seem perfectly content inside the house, and for
me, it's just not worth the flea risk to let them go out, and while I think
Revolution is generally safe, it does still have a potential for toxicity,
so I would prefer to avoid it if I can, particularly for the senior cats.
Aside from the flea issue, I think the enclosure is a fantastic idea, and if
I weren't so worried about fleas, I would have one in a heartbeat!
Best regards,
---Cindy S.




> As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
> contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in
> fact, I
> have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other
> people
> view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
> Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
> majority in this group are from the USA.
> I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
> guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
> taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
> eases that guilt somewhat.
>
> When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you
> lost
> the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to
> tell
> people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's,
> it
> seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost
> guarantee
> will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
> protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?
>
> Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
> harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only
> out
> into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that
> I
> only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like
> to
> take that risk.
> I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
> something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder
> if
> you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
> don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
> sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
> how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
> feel about them please?
> TIA,
> Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> --
> Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> Message posted via http://www.catkb.com
>

Dom
August 22nd 07, 06:51 PM
On Aug 22, 12:03 pm, "sheelagh" <[email protected]> wrote:
> For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
> USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
> people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never really
> arisen.
> As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
> contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in fact, I
> have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other people
> view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
> Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
> majority in this group are from the USA.
> I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
> guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
> taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
> eases that guilt somewhat.
>
> When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you lost
> the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to tell
> people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's, it
> seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost guarantee
> will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
> protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?
>
> Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
> harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only out
> into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that I
> only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like to
> take that risk.
> I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
> something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder if
> you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
> don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
> sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
> how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
> feel about them please?
> TIA,
> Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> --
> Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> Message posted viahttp://www.catkb.com

This may not answer your question, but I think it's interesting. I
have two cats, one in-door only, the other goes outdoors as much as
possible. However, the outdoor cat never goes off the portico. He
just sits there all day, and comes in to eat, then out again.

I started using an enclosure, because the neighbors said there as a
fox in the neighborhood. The enclosure was bigger than the portico.
But guess what happened. The cat wanted to go outside the enclosure
and just sit in front of it!!

So no, I don't use enclosures anymore.

Sheelagh >o
August 22nd 07, 08:05 PM
On 22 Aug, 18:51, Dom > wrote:
> On Aug 22, 12:03 pm, "sheelagh" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
> > USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
> > people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never really
> > arisen.
> > As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
> > contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in fact, I
> > have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other people
> > view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
> > Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
> > majority in this group are from the USA.
> > I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
> > guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
> > taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
> > eases that guilt somewhat.
>
> > When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you lost
> > the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to tell
> > people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's, it
> > seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost guarantee
> > will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
> > protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?
>
> > Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
> > harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only out
> > into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that I
> > only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like to
> > take that risk.
> > I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
> > something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder if
> > you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
> > don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
> > sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
> > how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
> > feel about them please?
> > TIA,
> > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> > --
> > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> > Message posted viahttp://www.catkb.com
>
> This may not answer your question, but I think it's interesting. I
> have two cats, one in-door only, the other goes outdoors as much as
> possible. However, the outdoor cat never goes off the portico. He
> just sits there all day, and comes in to eat, then out again.
>
> I started using an enclosure, because the neighbors said there as a
> fox in the neighborhood. The enclosure was bigger than the portico.
> But guess what happened. The cat wanted to go outside the enclosure
> and just sit in front of it!!
>
> So no, I don't use enclosures anymore.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Good story though, Lol :o)
Thank you
Sheelagh>"o"<

Sheelagh >o
August 22nd 07, 08:18 PM
On 22 Aug, 17:34, "cindys" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]
> > For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
> > USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
> > people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never
> > really
> > arisen.
>
> ----------
> Very few people in the USA have cat enclosures. We either keep the cats
> inside or let the cats out. None of the cat rescue groups will adopt out a
> cat unless the wannabe slave first signs an agreement to keep the cat inside
> at all times (and not to declaw). As time goes on, more and more people
> belong to the "inside only" mindset. However, I doubt any of the rescue
> groups would object to an enclosure. The only reason I don't let my older
> cats out into our fenced yard (these are senior cats who could never jump
> the fence) is that outside = fleas. In all the years I have had cats, the
> only times I have ever had problems with fleas was when we were living in an
> apartment building and someone else's cat went outside and brought them into
> the building and on two other occasions when we brought in foster cats from
> the rescue agency. And I have never treated my cats for fleas as a
> precaution. I have done so only on the couple of occasions where there was a
> bonafide flea problem.
>
> In the first situation, once the fleas were in the building, we could not
> get rid of them. This was in the days before Revolution et al and our cats
> were forced to endure several flea "dips" only to have fleas again within
> the week. The apartment was flea-bombed and the carpets and furniture were
> treated by an exterminator every six weeks! And to no avail. After a year
> and a half of this, the only way we escaped the fleas was to buy a house and
> move out of the apartment. I had the new house pre-exterminated (before we
> moved in), and I also had the exterminator treat the furniture one last
> time. I never want to endure that ordeal again.
>
> All of my five current cats seem perfectly content inside the house, and for
> me, it's just not worth the flea risk to let them go out, and while I think
> Revolution is generally safe, it does still have a potential for toxicity,
> so I would prefer to avoid it if I can, particularly for the senior cats.
> Aside from the flea issue, I think the enclosure is a fantastic idea, and if
> I weren't so worried about fleas, I would have one in a heartbeat!
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
>
>
>
> > As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
> > contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in
> > fact, I
> > have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other
> > people
> > view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
> > Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
> > majority in this group are from the USA.
> > I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
> > guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
> > taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
> > eases that guilt somewhat.
>
> > When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you
> > lost
> > the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to
> > tell
> > people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's,
> > it
> > seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost
> > guarantee
> > will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
> > protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?
>
> > Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
> > harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only
> > out
> > into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that
> > I
> > only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like
> > to
> > take that risk.
> > I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
> > something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder
> > if
> > you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
> > don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
> > sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
> > how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
> > feel about them please?
> > TIA,
> > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> > --
> > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> > Message posted viahttp://www.catkb.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I can understand that, it is a very valid reason.

Thank you for the explanation as well. It helps us to understand how
each other feel, & their reasons for feeling so passionately about why
we do things the way we do.

I hope that you don't think that I was criticizing the indoor outdoor
debate? That is not the case at all! This is entirely different. I
think we have started to think the way we do about enclosures, because
of incidents such as Ringo being shot @. I think we do it to ease our
conscience about taking an already outdoor cat's liberty away. It's a
conscience thing I suppose. However, as you rightly point out, most
cats that live indoors, are perfectly happy they way life is. I just
noticed that not many of our american correspondents ever talk about
cat enclosures, & I wondered why that was. Thank you for indulging me
Cindy

Sheelagh>"o"<

Dom
August 22nd 07, 08:22 PM
On Aug 22, 3:18 pm, "Sheelagh >o<" >
wrote:
> On 22 Aug, 17:34, "cindys" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "sheelagh" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]
> > > For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
> > > USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
> > > people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never
> > > really
> > > arisen.
>
> > ----------
> > Very few people in the USA have cat enclosures. We either keep the cats
> > inside or let the cats out. None of the cat rescue groups will adopt out a
> > cat unless the wannabe slave first signs an agreement to keep the cat inside
> > at all times (and not to declaw). As time goes on, more and more people
> > belong to the "inside only" mindset. However, I doubt any of the rescue
> > groups would object to an enclosure. The only reason I don't let my older
> > cats out into our fenced yard (these are senior cats who could never jump
> > the fence) is that outside = fleas. In all the years I have had cats, the
> > only times I have ever had problems with fleas was when we were living in an
> > apartment building and someone else's cat went outside and brought them into
> > the building and on two other occasions when we brought in foster cats from
> > the rescue agency. And I have never treated my cats for fleas as a
> > precaution. I have done so only on the couple of occasions where there was a
> > bonafide flea problem.
>
> > In the first situation, once the fleas were in the building, we could not
> > get rid of them. This was in the days before Revolution et al and our cats
> > were forced to endure several flea "dips" only to have fleas again within
> > the week. The apartment was flea-bombed and the carpets and furniture were
> > treated by an exterminator every six weeks! And to no avail. After a year
> > and a half of this, the only way we escaped the fleas was to buy a house and
> > move out of the apartment. I had the new house pre-exterminated (before we
> > moved in), and I also had the exterminator treat the furniture one last
> > time. I never want to endure that ordeal again.
>
> > All of my five current cats seem perfectly content inside the house, and for
> > me, it's just not worth the flea risk to let them go out, and while I think
> > Revolution is generally safe, it does still have a potential for toxicity,
> > so I would prefer to avoid it if I can, particularly for the senior cats.
> > Aside from the flea issue, I think the enclosure is a fantastic idea, and if
> > I weren't so worried about fleas, I would have one in a heartbeat!
> > Best regards,
> > ---Cindy S.
>
> > > As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
> > > contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in
> > > fact, I
> > > have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other
> > > people
> > > view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
> > > Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
> > > majority in this group are from the USA.
> > > I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
> > > guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
> > > taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
> > > eases that guilt somewhat.
>
> > > When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you
> > > lost
> > > the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to
> > > tell
> > > people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's,
> > > it
> > > seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost
> > > guarantee
> > > will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
> > > protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?
>
> > > Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
> > > harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only
> > > out
> > > into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that
> > > I
> > > only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like
> > > to
> > > take that risk.
> > > I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
> > > something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder
> > > if
> > > you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
> > > don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
> > > sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
> > > how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
> > > feel about them please?
> > > TIA,
> > > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> > > --
> > > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> > > Message posted viahttp://www.catkb.com-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I can understand that, it is a very valid reason.
>
> Thank you for the explanation as well. It helps us to understand how
> each other feel, & their reasons for feeling so passionately about why
> we do things the way we do.
>
> I hope that you don't think that I was criticizing the indoor outdoor
> debate? That is not the case at all! This is entirely different. I
> think we have started to think the way we do about enclosures, because
> of incidents such as Ringo being shot @. I think we do it to ease our
> conscience about taking an already outdoor cat's liberty away. It's a
> conscience thing I suppose. However, as you rightly point out, most
> cats that live indoors, are perfectly happy they way life is. I just
> noticed that not many of our american correspondents ever talk about
> cat enclosures, & I wondered why that was. Thank you for indulging me
> Cindy
>
> Sheelagh>"o"<

Your cat was shot at? Really? Someone actually used a gun on your
cat? Why, for heaven's sake?

Sheelagh >o
August 22nd 07, 08:30 PM
On 22 Aug, 20:22, Dom > wrote:
> On Aug 22, 3:18 pm, "Sheelagh >o<" >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 22 Aug, 17:34, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > "sheelagh" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]
> > > > For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
> > > > USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
> > > > people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never
> > > > really
> > > > arisen.
>
> > > ----------
> > > Very few people in the USA have cat enclosures. We either keep the cats
> > > inside or let the cats out. None of the cat rescue groups will adopt out a
> > > cat unless the wannabe slave first signs an agreement to keep the cat inside
> > > at all times (and not to declaw). As time goes on, more and more people
> > > belong to the "inside only" mindset. However, I doubt any of the rescue
> > > groups would object to an enclosure. The only reason I don't let my older
> > > cats out into our fenced yard (these are senior cats who could never jump
> > > the fence) is that outside = fleas. In all the years I have had cats, the
> > > only times I have ever had problems with fleas was when we were living in an
> > > apartment building and someone else's cat went outside and brought them into
> > > the building and on two other occasions when we brought in foster cats from
> > > the rescue agency. And I have never treated my cats for fleas as a
> > > precaution. I have done so only on the couple of occasions where there was a
> > > bonafide flea problem.
>
> > > In the first situation, once the fleas were in the building, we could not
> > > get rid of them. This was in the days before Revolution et al and our cats
> > > were forced to endure several flea "dips" only to have fleas again within
> > > the week. The apartment was flea-bombed and the carpets and furniture were
> > > treated by an exterminator every six weeks! And to no avail. After a year
> > > and a half of this, the only way we escaped the fleas was to buy a house and
> > > move out of the apartment. I had the new house pre-exterminated (before we
> > > moved in), and I also had the exterminator treat the furniture one last
> > > time. I never want to endure that ordeal again.
>
> > > All of my five current cats seem perfectly content inside the house, and for
> > > me, it's just not worth the flea risk to let them go out, and while I think
> > > Revolution is generally safe, it does still have a potential for toxicity,
> > > so I would prefer to avoid it if I can, particularly for the senior cats.
> > > Aside from the flea issue, I think the enclosure is a fantastic idea, and if
> > > I weren't so worried about fleas, I would have one in a heartbeat!
> > > Best regards,
> > > ---Cindy S.
>
> > > > As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
> > > > contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in
> > > > fact, I
> > > > have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other
> > > > people
> > > > view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
> > > > Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
> > > > majority in this group are from the USA.
> > > > I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
> > > > guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
> > > > taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
> > > > eases that guilt somewhat.
>
> > > > When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you
> > > > lost
> > > > the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to
> > > > tell
> > > > people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's,
> > > > it
> > > > seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost
> > > > guarantee
> > > > will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
> > > > protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?
>
> > > > Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
> > > > harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only
> > > > out
> > > > into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that
> > > > I
> > > > only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like
> > > > to
> > > > take that risk.
> > > > I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
> > > > something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder
> > > > if
> > > > you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
> > > > don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
> > > > sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
> > > > how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
> > > > feel about them please?
> > > > TIA,
> > > > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> > > > --
> > > > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> > > > Message posted viahttp://www.catkb.com-Hidequoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I can understand that, it is a very valid reason.
>
> > Thank you for the explanation as well. It helps us to understand how
> > each other feel, & their reasons for feeling so passionately about why
> > we do things the way we do.
>
> > I hope that you don't think that I was criticizing the indoor outdoor
> > debate? That is not the case at all! This is entirely different. I
> > think we have started to think the way we do about enclosures, because
> > of incidents such as Ringo being shot @. I think we do it to ease our
> > conscience about taking an already outdoor cat's liberty away. It's a
> > conscience thing I suppose. However, as you rightly point out, most
> > cats that live indoors, are perfectly happy they way life is. I just
> > noticed that not many of our american correspondents ever talk about
> > cat enclosures, & I wondered why that was. Thank you for indulging me
> > Cindy
>
> > Sheelagh>"o"<
>
> Your cat was shot at? Really? Someone actually used a gun on your
> cat? Why, for heaven's sake?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Long story, but we live in the UK , where it is perfectly normal to
allow your cat outside; In fact it is considered unusual not to allow
them to roam.
But, yes, he was shot @ but not with a firearm as such, it was a BB
gun, but it still made a mess of the poor old fellow, & he suffered
terribly. As to why?
Why do teenagers think it is funny to use live animals as target
practise?
I don't suppose I will ever get the answer to that question, because I
simply don't understand either. The cat enclosure has allowed us to
offer a bit more freedom to the inside cats we already had, & a safe
environment for an old outside cat to enjoy, without the fear of being
shot again.. He will only go outside in human or feline company now.
What do we expect though.. it must have been really traumatic for
him.
Thanks for asking though...
Sheelagh >"o"<

Dom
August 22nd 07, 08:58 PM
On Aug 22, 3:30 pm, "Sheelagh >o<" >
wrote:
> On 22 Aug, 20:22, Dom > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 22, 3:18 pm, "Sheelagh >o<" >
> > wrote:
>
> > > On 22 Aug, 17:34, "cindys" > wrote:
>
> > > > "sheelagh" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]
> > > > > For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
> > > > > USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
> > > > > people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never
> > > > > really
> > > > > arisen.
>
> > > > ----------
> > > > Very few people in the USA have cat enclosures. We either keep the cats
> > > > inside or let the cats out. None of the cat rescue groups will adopt out a
> > > > cat unless the wannabe slave first signs an agreement to keep the cat inside
> > > > at all times (and not to declaw). As time goes on, more and more people
> > > > belong to the "inside only" mindset. However, I doubt any of the rescue
> > > > groups would object to an enclosure. The only reason I don't let my older
> > > > cats out into our fenced yard (these are senior cats who could never jump
> > > > the fence) is that outside = fleas. In all the years I have had cats, the
> > > > only times I have ever had problems with fleas was when we were living in an
> > > > apartment building and someone else's cat went outside and brought them into
> > > > the building and on two other occasions when we brought in foster cats from
> > > > the rescue agency. And I have never treated my cats for fleas as a
> > > > precaution. I have done so only on the couple of occasions where there was a
> > > > bonafide flea problem.
>
> > > > In the first situation, once the fleas were in the building, we could not
> > > > get rid of them. This was in the days before Revolution et al and our cats
> > > > were forced to endure several flea "dips" only to have fleas again within
> > > > the week. The apartment was flea-bombed and the carpets and furniture were
> > > > treated by an exterminator every six weeks! And to no avail. After a year
> > > > and a half of this, the only way we escaped the fleas was to buy a house and
> > > > move out of the apartment. I had the new house pre-exterminated (before we
> > > > moved in), and I also had the exterminator treat the furniture one last
> > > > time. I never want to endure that ordeal again.
>
> > > > All of my five current cats seem perfectly content inside the house, and for
> > > > me, it's just not worth the flea risk to let them go out, and while I think
> > > > Revolution is generally safe, it does still have a potential for toxicity,
> > > > so I would prefer to avoid it if I can, particularly for the senior cats.
> > > > Aside from the flea issue, I think the enclosure is a fantastic idea, and if
> > > > I weren't so worried about fleas, I would have one in a heartbeat!
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > ---Cindy S.
>
> > > > > As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
> > > > > contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in
> > > > > fact, I
> > > > > have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other
> > > > > people
> > > > > view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
> > > > > Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
> > > > > majority in this group are from the USA.
> > > > > I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
> > > > > guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
> > > > > taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
> > > > > eases that guilt somewhat.
>
> > > > > When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you
> > > > > lost
> > > > > the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to
> > > > > tell
> > > > > people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's,
> > > > > it
> > > > > seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost
> > > > > guarantee
> > > > > will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
> > > > > protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?
>
> > > > > Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
> > > > > harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only
> > > > > out
> > > > > into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that
> > > > > I
> > > > > only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like
> > > > > to
> > > > > take that risk.
> > > > > I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
> > > > > something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder
> > > > > if
> > > > > you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
> > > > > don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
> > > > > sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
> > > > > how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
> > > > > feel about them please?
> > > > > TIA,
> > > > > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> > > > > Message posted viahttp://www.catkb.com-Hidequotedtext -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > I can understand that, it is a very valid reason.
>
> > > Thank you for the explanation as well. It helps us to understand how
> > > each other feel, & their reasons for feeling so passionately about why
> > > we do things the way we do.
>
> > > I hope that you don't think that I was criticizing the indoor outdoor
> > > debate? That is not the case at all! This is entirely different. I
> > > think we have started to think the way we do about enclosures, because
> > > of incidents such as Ringo being shot @. I think we do it to ease our
> > > conscience about taking an already outdoor cat's liberty away. It's a
> > > conscience thing I suppose. However, as you rightly point out, most
> > > cats that live indoors, are perfectly happy they way life is. I just
> > > noticed that not many of our american correspondents ever talk about
> > > cat enclosures, & I wondered why that was. Thank you for indulging me
> > > Cindy
>
> > > Sheelagh>"o"<
>
> > Your cat was shot at? Really? Someone actually used a gun on your
> > cat? Why, for heaven's sake?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Long story, but we live in the UK , where it is perfectly normal to
> allow your cat outside; In fact it is considered unusual not to allow
> them to roam.
> But, yes, he was shot @ but not with a firearm as such, it was a BB
> gun, but it still made a mess of the poor old fellow, & he suffered
> terribly. As to why?
> Why do teenagers think it is funny to use live animals as target
> practise?
> I don't suppose I will ever get the answer to that question, because I
> simply don't understand either. The cat enclosure has allowed us to
> offer a bit more freedom to the inside cats we already had, & a safe
> environment for an old outside cat to enjoy, without the fear of being
> shot again.. He will only go outside in human or feline company now.
> What do we expect though.. it must have been really traumatic for
> him.
> Thanks for asking though...
> Sheelagh >"o"<

We have examples of this kind of horrible animal cruelty also. I
don't know if you heard about it in the UK, but here in the US, a
football player (wealthy beyond belief) was running a dog-fighting
ring on the side. He was even training the dogs for fighting. Others
said he would often kill a dog that didn't perform up to
expectations.

Here are two comments on this hideous oaf that I think are priceless;


http://www.newstalk 650.com/loucks/ index.php? itemid=231

http://www.vickdogc hewtoy.com/

bookie
August 23rd 07, 12:13 AM
On 22 Aug, 17:03, "sheelagh" <[email protected]> wrote:
> For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
> USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
> people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never really
> arisen.
> As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
> contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in fact, I
> have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other people
> view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
> Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
> majority in this group are from the USA.
> I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
> guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
> taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
> eases that guilt somewhat.
>
> When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you lost
> the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to tell
> people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's, it
> seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost guarantee
> will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
> protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?
>
> Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
> harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only out
> into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that I
> only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like to
> take that risk.
> I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
> something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder if
> you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
> don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
> sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
> how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
> feel about them please?
> TIA,
> Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> --
> Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> Message posted viahttp://www.catkb.com

can't afford to build one right now, but when mr mcgregor starts
thinking abuot giong out into the garden we will ahve to get some big
fencing panels and block off the gate at the end of the garden and the
'tunnel under the fence at the end (where jessie built her escape
route into next doors garden) as apparantly he is a bit of a wanderer.
He aparantly tends to wander off, forgets where he is and how he got
there and doesn't come back for days, so we are goign to have tomake
the back garden secure.
he is VERY unlikely to be able to jump over anything (his ample girth
is the limiting factor here) so it won't be too hard, just have to
block off any ground level escape routes.

we are probably going to get him a harness and take him out for walks
around the cul de sac anyway as he is a bit of a couch potato and he
really does need to lose some weight, not so much to keep a tight rein
on him but more to 'encourage' him into going out for a walk. Jessie
doesn't need a harness and lead as she sticks close to me on our
little walks, she won't go far away from me at all.

right now though, all 3 seem to gone into early hibernation with all
the **** weather we are having right now, it really does feel like
november this evening, very windy, no fun at all on the river. There
seems to be a snoring ball of fur somewhere in each room right now, on
a sofa, on a bed, on a beanbag, and they dont't seem to be too
bothered about going for excursions right now, they are not stupid,
they know where it is warm dry and close to copious amounts of food
and human slaves.

gettign mr mcgregor with his 'wandering' habit has made me think about
gettign the backl garden more enclosed and secure and I know i will
have to do that before he goes out into it, but i am not keen on
building a massive enclosure over the whole thing. for a start i have
no money to do so, and also this house is rendted and I doubt that the
landlord will take too kindly to us dong weird stuff in his back
garden, not that he would ever come round to check, but i don't want
to push it.

any decisions on the case with the negligent vet, re-lilly? any
fuirther thoughts on what you will do?
bookie

bookie
August 23rd 07, 12:27 AM
> Why do teenagers think it is funny to use live animals as target
> practise?

because they're ****s and need a good kicking, as do their parents for
not bringing them up properly to be able to respect all life and
behave in a decent manner
thought we'd been through all this?

Sherry
August 23rd 07, 01:48 AM
On Aug 22, 11:03 am, "sheelagh" <[email protected]> wrote:
> For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
> USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
> people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never really
> arisen.
> As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
> contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in fact, I
> have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other people
> view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
> Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
> majority in this group are from the USA.
> I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
> guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
> taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
> eases that guilt somewhat.
>
> When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you lost
> the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to tell
> people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's, it
> seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost guarantee
> will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
> protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?
>
> Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
> harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only out
> into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that I
> only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like to
> take that risk.
> I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
> something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder if
> you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
> don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
> sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
> how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
> feel about them please?
> TIA,
> Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> --
> Sheelagh

Actually, most of the people I know with strictly indoor cats have
some kind of enclosure. Some are large
and elaborate, and some are just a small deck enclosed with wire, just
large enough for the cat to enjoy
lying in the sun. Our shelter has a fairly large enclosure. IMO, it is
a great compromise for the cat to enjoy
the outdoors and still be safe.
We enclosed an existing patio at my daughter's house, and installed a
cat flap for access. They absolutely loved
it, and it was fairly cheap to build.

Sherry

Cheryl
August 23rd 07, 01:49 AM
On Wed 22 Aug 2007 12:34:19p, cindys wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
>:

> In the first situation, once the fleas were in the building, we
> could not get rid of them. This was in the days before
> Revolution et al and our cats were forced to endure several flea
> "dips" only to have fleas again within the week. The apartment
> was flea-bombed and the carpets and furniture were treated by an
> exterminator every six weeks! And to no avail. After a year and
> a half of this, the only way we escaped the fleas was to buy a
> house and move out of the apartment. I had the new house
> pre-exterminated (before we moved in), and I also had the
> exterminator treat the furniture one last time. I never want to
> endure that ordeal again.

BTDT and it's no fun! I had a flea infestation in an apartment once
for the same reason you did - someone else's pet was infested and
the fleas travel looking for food in the same way ants, roaches and
other pests do. I have never been so covered with flea bites, both
before or since. I set off bombs at the height of the infestation
when I was leaving for vacation, so the place was vacant for a
week. I got trapped in the apt after setting the bomb, but that's
another long boring story.

I have an enclosure for my cats, and I have to say I've never seen
a flea on them. The mosquitoes are what I worry about, so they
don't go out as often as they'd like.

--
Cheryl

Sherry
August 23rd 07, 01:51 AM
On Aug 22, 7:48 pm, Sherry > wrote:
> On Aug 22, 11:03 am, "sheelagh" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
> > USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
> > people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never really
> > arisen.
> > As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
> > contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in fact, I
> > have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other people
> > view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
> > Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
> > majority in this group are from the USA.
> > I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
> > guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
> > taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
> > eases that guilt somewhat.
>
> > When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you lost
> > the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to tell
> > people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's, it
> > seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost guarantee
> > will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
> > protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?
>
> > Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
> > harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only out
> > into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that I
> > only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like to
> > take that risk.
> > I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
> > something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder if
> > you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
> > don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
> > sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
> > how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
> > feel about them please?
> > TIA,
> > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> > --
> > Sheelagh
>
> Actually, most of the people I know with strictly indoor cats have
> some kind of enclosure. Some are large
> and elaborate, and some are just a small deck enclosed with wire, just
> large enough for the cat to enjoy
> lying in the sun. Our shelter has a fairly large enclosure. IMO, it is
> a great compromise for the cat to enjoy
> the outdoors and still be safe.
> We enclosed an existing patio at my daughter's house, and installed a
> cat flap for access. They absolutely loved
> it, and it was fairly cheap to build.
>
> Sherry- Hide quoted text -

Sheelagh, here are a couple of views of the enclosure I was talking
about that we built.
http://members.aol.com/sriddles/room1.jpg
http://members.aol.com/sriddles/room2.jpg

Sherry

Matthew
August 23rd 07, 01:56 AM
"Sherry" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> On Aug 22, 11:03 am, "sheelagh" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in
>> the
>> USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
>> people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never
>> really
>> arisen.
>> As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
>> contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in
>> fact, I
>> have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other
>> people
>> view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
>> Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the
>> vast
>> majority in this group are from the USA.
>> I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
>> guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
>> taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
>> eases that guilt somewhat.
>>
>> When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you
>> lost
>> the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to
>> tell
>> people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's,
>> it
>> seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost
>> guarantee
>> will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
>> protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?
>>
>> Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
>> harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only
>> out
>> into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that
>> I
>> only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like
>> to
>> take that risk.
>> I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
>> something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder
>> if
>> you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you
>> simply
>> don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
>> sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It
>> is
>> how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what
>> they
>> feel about them please?
>> TIA,
>> Sheelagh >"o"<
>>
>> --
>> Sheelagh
>
> Actually, most of the people I know with strictly indoor cats have
> some kind of enclosure. Some are large
> and elaborate, and some are just a small deck enclosed with wire, just
> large enough for the cat to enjoy
> lying in the sun. Our shelter has a fairly large enclosure. IMO, it is
> a great compromise for the cat to enjoy
> the outdoors and still be safe.
> We enclosed an existing patio at my daughter's house, and installed a
> cat flap for access. They absolutely loved
> it, and it was fairly cheap to build.
>
> Sherry
>
My outdoor enclosure is called a Florida room. They love it

Cheryl
August 23rd 07, 02:02 AM
On Wed 22 Aug 2007 08:51:20p, Sherry wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav <news:1187830280.468648.236850
@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:

> Sheelagh, here are a couple of views of the enclosure I was talking
> about that we built.
> http://members.aol.com/sriddles/room1.jpg
> http://members.aol.com/sriddles/room2.jpg

Those pictures were the inspiration for my cat's enclosure. Before
you posted that a few years ago I'd never heard of such a thing. Even
now I don't know anyone who has anything like this. People often ask
me how I did mine, but one of my neighbors thought for sure it must
be for birds. :) The cats might like that if it were true!

--
Cheryl

Sherry
August 23rd 07, 02:08 AM
On Aug 22, 8:02 pm, Cheryl > wrote:
> On Wed 22 Aug 2007 08:51:20p, Sherry wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav <news:1187830280.468648.236850
> @x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
>
> > Sheelagh, here are a couple of views of the enclosure I was talking
> > about that we built.
> >http://members.aol.com/sriddles/room1.jpg
> >http://members.aol.com/sriddles/room2.jpg
>
> Those pictures were the inspiration for my cat's enclosure. Before
> you posted that a few years ago I'd never heard of such a thing. Even
> now I don't know anyone who has anything like this. People often ask
> me how I did mine, but one of my neighbors thought for sure it must
> be for birds. :) The cats might like that if it were true!
>
> --
> Cheryl

I'd forgotten I still had those pics. She has long since sold that
house and moved. The cats
don't have an enclosure where they are, and it will take a lot of red
tape, permits, and approval
of the Homeowner's Association for her to get another one. The cats
are so old now, they just
sit out in the back yard with them in the evenings since they don't
have outdoor access anymore.
They do have a goldfish pond in the back yard now though. I imagine
that's pretty entertaining!

Sherry

cindys
August 23rd 07, 03:29 AM
"Cheryl" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed 22 Aug 2007 12:34:19p, cindys wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> >:
>
>> In the first situation, once the fleas were in the building, we
>> could not get rid of them. This was in the days before
>> Revolution et al and our cats were forced to endure several flea
>> "dips" only to have fleas again within the week. The apartment
>> was flea-bombed and the carpets and furniture were treated by an
>> exterminator every six weeks! And to no avail. After a year and
>> a half of this, the only way we escaped the fleas was to buy a
>> house and move out of the apartment. I had the new house
>> pre-exterminated (before we moved in), and I also had the
>> exterminator treat the furniture one last time. I never want to
>> endure that ordeal again.
>
> BTDT and it's no fun! I had a flea infestation in an apartment once
> for the same reason you did - someone else's pet was infested and
> the fleas travel looking for food in the same way ants, roaches and
> other pests do. I have never been so covered with flea bites, both
> before or since. I set off bombs at the height of the infestation
> when I was leaving for vacation, so the place was vacant for a
> week. I got trapped in the apt after setting the bomb, but that's
> another long boring story.
>
> I have an enclosure for my cats, and I have to say I've never seen
> a flea on them. The mosquitoes are what I worry about, so they
> don't go out as often as they'd like.
--------
Yes. Where I live, heartworm is a very big problem. While it's true that a
mosquito can get in the house, the likelihood of being bitten is far greater
if the cat goes outside.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Sherry
August 23rd 07, 03:59 AM
On Aug 22, 7:49 pm, Cheryl > wrote:
> On Wed 22 Aug 2007 12:34:19p, cindys wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> >:
>
> > In the first situation, once the fleas were in the building, we
> > could not get rid of them. This was in the days before
> > Revolution et al and our cats were forced to endure several flea
> > "dips" only to have fleas again within the week. The apartment
> > was flea-bombed and the carpets and furniture were treated by an
> > exterminator every six weeks! And to no avail. After a year and
> > a half of this, the only way we escaped the fleas was to buy a
> > house and move out of the apartment. I had the new house
> > pre-exterminated (before we moved in), and I also had the
> > exterminator treat the furniture one last time. I never want to
> > endure that ordeal again.
>
> BTDT and it's no fun! I had a flea infestation in an apartment once
> for the same reason you did - someone else's pet was infested and
> the fleas travel looking for food in the same way ants, roaches and
> other pests do. I have never been so covered with flea bites, both
> before or since. I set off bombs at the height of the infestation
> when I was leaving for vacation, so the place was vacant for a
> week. I got trapped in the apt after setting the bomb, but that's
> another long boring story.
>
> I have an enclosure for my cats, and I have to say I've never seen
> a flea on them. The mosquitoes are what I worry about, so they
> don't go out as often as they'd like.
>
> --
> Cheryl

Are they bad there this year? Wonder if there's an effective mosquito
repellent
for the enclosure. The vets here really push the heartworm preventive
meds too.
Sherry

Suzie-Q[_2_]
August 23rd 07, 05:17 AM
In article <[email protected]>, "sheelagh" <[email protected]> wrote:

> For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
> USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
> people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never really
> arisen.
> As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
> contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in fact, I
> have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other people
> view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
> Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
> majority in this group are from the USA.
> I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
> guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
> taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
> eases that guilt somewhat.
>
> When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you lost
> the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to tell
> people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's, it
> seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost guarantee
> will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
> protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?
>
> Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
> harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only out
> into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that I
> only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like to
> take that risk.
> I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
> something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder if
> you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
> don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
> sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
> how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
> feel about them please?
> TIA,
> Sheelagh >"o"<


In fact, I've been thinking seriously about building one. I like to let
my cats outdoors, but with a significant guarantee of safety. I think
anyone who has outdoor cats should use an enclosure.

--

8^)~ Sue (remove the x to email)
~~~~
I reserve the absolute right to be smarter today than I was
yesterday. -Adlai Stevenson

As seen on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/wacvet

http://www.suzanne-eckhardt.com/
http://www.intergnat.com/malebashing/
http://www.intergnat.com/pussygames/

Cheryl
August 24th 07, 02:59 AM
On Wed 22 Aug 2007 10:29:43p, cindys wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
>:

> Yes. Where I live, heartworm is a very big problem. While it's
> true that a mosquito can get in the house, the likelihood of
> being bitten is far greater if the cat goes outside.

I need to just start giving them the heartworm preventative and let
them out. Though I don't know if there are side-effects. Need to
research.

--
Cheryl

Cheryl
August 24th 07, 03:03 AM
On Wed 22 Aug 2007 10:59:24p, Sherry wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
ups.com>:

> Are they bad there this year? Wonder if there's an effective
> mosquito repellent
> for the enclosure. The vets here really push the heartworm
> preventive meds too.

I'd have to say yes. Any time I've been out doing yard work,
standing out having a smoke, sitting outside reading, especially
near dusk, the mosquitoes are massively swarming! I can't recall a
time that I have been out during those hours that I don't get bit.
It's so dry here, so I don't know how they're breeding, but
apparently they are.

When you wrote about mosquito repellent for the enclosure, my mind
went directly to what they are trying to get all of the citizens of
S Africa to use to prevent malaria - mosquito netting. They treat
it with something. Hmm.. I wonder.....

--
Cheryl

Sherry
August 24th 07, 05:07 AM
On Aug 23, 9:03 pm, Cheryl > wrote:
> On Wed 22 Aug 2007 10:59:24p, Sherry wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> ups.com>:
>
> > Are they bad there this year? Wonder if there's an effective
> > mosquito repellent
> > for the enclosure. The vets here really push the heartworm
> > preventive meds too.
>
> I'd have to say yes. Any time I've been out doing yard work,
> standing out having a smoke, sitting outside reading, especially
> near dusk, the mosquitoes are massively swarming! I can't recall a
> time that I have been out during those hours that I don't get bit.
> It's so dry here, so I don't know how they're breeding, but
> apparently they are.
>
> When you wrote about mosquito repellent for the enclosure, my mind
> went directly to what they are trying to get all of the citizens of
> S Africa to use to prevent malaria - mosquito netting. They treat
> it with something. Hmm.. I wonder.....
>
> --
> Cheryl

Hey, that would be an option.
Let me know what you find out researching HW preventive. I'm going to
check it out too. Weirdly enough, we don't have
mosquitos here, even after all this rain??? But they cats do go out
sometimes, and I'm seriously considering putting
them on preventive.

Sherry

Sheelagh >o
August 24th 07, 04:15 PM
On 23 Aug, 03:29, "cindys" > wrote:
> "Cheryl" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > On Wed 22 Aug 2007 12:34:19p, cindys wrote in
> > rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> > >:
>
> >> In the first situation, once the fleas were in the building, we
> >> could not get rid of them. This was in the days before
> >> Revolution et al and our cats were forced to endure several flea
> >> "dips" only to have fleas again within the week. The apartment
> >> was flea-bombed and the carpets and furniture were treated by an
> >> exterminator every six weeks! And to no avail. After a year and
> >> a half of this, the only way we escaped the fleas was to buy a
> >> house and move out of the apartment. I had the new house
> >> pre-exterminated (before we moved in), and I also had the
> >> exterminator treat the furniture one last time. I never want to
> >> endure that ordeal again.
>
> > BTDT and it's no fun! I had a flea infestation in an apartment once
> > for the same reason you did - someone else's pet was infested and
> > the fleas travel looking for food in the same way ants, roaches and
> > other pests do. I have never been so covered with flea bites, both
> > before or since. I set off bombs at the height of the infestation
> > when I was leaving for vacation, so the place was vacant for a
> > week. I got trapped in the apt after setting the bomb, but that's
> > another long boring story.
>
> > I have an enclosure for my cats, and I have to say I've never seen
> > a flea on them. The mosquitoes are what I worry about, so they
> > don't go out as often as they'd like.
>
> --------
> Yes. Where I live, heartworm is a very big problem. While it's true that a
> mosquito can get in the house, the likelihood of being bitten is far greater
> if the cat goes outside.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

One other pest has just come to mind that we don't really have to
worry about here, & that is snakes I suppose? I've heard about lung
worm from MaryL. It sounds a terrible thing! If this is what yo face,
then I do understand your fears, & they are very grounded. I never
realised that mosquitoes caused anything worse than malaria before
that point. (now there is a disease that will allow you to wish you
had never been born!! Terrible illness!!)
<shudder>
Sheelagh>"o"<

Sheelagh >o
August 24th 07, 04:17 PM
On 24 Aug, 05:07, Sherry > wrote:
> On Aug 23, 9:03 pm, Cheryl > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Wed 22 Aug 2007 10:59:24p, Sherry wrote in
> > rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> > ups.com>:
>
> > > Are they bad there this year? Wonder if there's an effective
> > > mosquito repellent
> > > for the enclosure. The vets here really push the heartworm
> > > preventive meds too.
>
> > I'd have to say yes. Any time I've been out doing yard work,
> > standing out having a smoke, sitting outside reading, especially
> > near dusk, the mosquitoes are massively swarming! I can't recall a
> > time that I have been out during those hours that I don't get bit.
> > It's so dry here, so I don't know how they're breeding, but
> > apparently they are.
>
> > When you wrote about mosquito repellent for the enclosure, my mind
> > went directly to what they are trying to get all of the citizens of
> > S Africa to use to prevent malaria - mosquito netting. They treat
> > it with something. Hmm.. I wonder.....
>
> > --
> > Cheryl
>
> Hey, that would be an option.
> Let me know what you find out researching HW preventive. I'm going to
> check it out too. Weirdly enough, we don't have
> mosquitos here, even after all this rain??? But they cats do go out
> sometimes, and I'm seriously considering putting
> them on preventive.
>
> Sherry- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Does preventative work, & is it as effective if not better than cure
for Heart worm?
I ask this because prevention is always better than dealing with the
full blown disease? As far as I am currently aware, there is no cure
for it, is there?

Sheelagh>"o"<

Sheelagh >o
August 24th 07, 04:57 PM
On 23 Aug, 00:13, bookie > wrote:
> On 22 Aug, 17:03, "sheelagh" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
> > USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
> > people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never really
> > arisen.
> > As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
> > contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in fact, I
> > have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other people
> > view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
> > Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
> > majority in this group are from the USA.
> > I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
> > guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
> > taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
> > eases that guilt somewhat.
>
> > When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you lost
> > the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to tell
> > people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's, it
> > seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost guarantee
> > will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
> > protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?
>
> > Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
> > harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only out
> > into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that I
> > only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like to
> > take that risk.
> > I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
> > something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder if
> > you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
> > don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
> > sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
> > how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
> > feel about them please?
> > TIA,
> > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> > --
> > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> > Message posted viahttp://www.catkb.com
>
> can't afford to build one right now, but when mr mcgregor starts
> thinking abuot giong out into the garden we will ahve to get some big
> fencing panels and block off the gate at the end of the garden and the
> 'tunnel under the fence at the end (where jessie built her escape
> route into next doors garden) as apparantly he is a bit of a wanderer.
> He aparantly tends to wander off, forgets where he is and how he got
> there and doesn't come back for days, so we are goign to have tomake
> the back garden secure.
> he is VERY unlikely to be able to jump over anything (his ample girth
> is the limiting factor here) so it won't be too hard, just have to
> block off any ground level escape routes.
>
> we are probably going to get him a harness and take him out for walks
> around the cul de sac anyway as he is a bit of a couch potato and he
> really does need to lose some weight, not so much to keep a tight rein
> on him but more to 'encourage' him into going out for a walk. Jessie
> doesn't need a harness and lead as she sticks close to me on our
> little walks, she won't go far away from me at all.
>
> right now though, all 3 seem to gone into early hibernation with all
> the **** weather we are having right now, it really does feel like
> november this evening, very windy, no fun at all on the river. There
> seems to be a snoring ball of fur somewhere in each room right now, on
> a sofa, on a bed, on a beanbag, and they dont't seem to be too
> bothered about going for excursions right now, they are not stupid,
> they know where it is warm dry and close to copious amounts of food
> and human slaves.
>
> gettign mr mcgregor with his 'wandering' habit has made me think about
> gettign the backl garden more enclosed and secure and I know i will
> have to do that before he goes out into it, but i am not keen on
> building a massive enclosure over the whole thing. for a start i have
> no money to do so, and also this house is rendted and I doubt that the
> landlord will take too kindly to us dong weird stuff in his back
> garden, not that he would ever come round to check, but i don't want
> to push it.
>
> any decisions on the case with the negligent vet, re-lilly? any
> fuirther thoughts on what you will do?
> bookie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

> can't afford to build one right now, but when mr mcgregor starts
> thinking abuot giong out into the garden we will ahve to get some big
> fencing panels and block off the gate at the end of the garden and the
> 'tunnel under the fence at the end (where jessie built her escape
> route into next doors garden) as apparantly he is a bit of a wanderer.
> He aparantly tends to wander off, forgets where he is and how he got
> there and doesn't come back for days, so we are goign to have tomake
> the back garden secure.
> he is VERY unlikely to be able to jump over anything (his ample girth
> is the limiting factor here) so it won't be too hard, just have to
> block off any ground level escape routes.

Excellent idea. When the time actually comes, start him of on a pair
of reins to start with, just to let you know whether or not it is
worth building a run for him. some cats become so traumatised that
that they never want to go out again when they have been thrown
outside to live. If he does show a tendency towards enjoying the
outdoor life, then let me know.

Paul is willing to knock you up the panels needed for a prefabricated
cat run. About 9' x 6 ' with housing in case it rains whilst mummy is
out. you shouldn't get any trouble from your landlord for that one,
but write to him all the same asking permission to erect one, & send
the plans with it, so that he can see that the only thing holding it
together is are a few screws. It offers them the chance to remain
outside if you have to pop into town ect, with no fear that any harm
will come to them, & they are secure.

Paul has been looking @ the last run I bought, & has decided that he
is going to try his hand at building the prefabricated frames for
anyone that wants them, because they are ridiculously expensive to buy
them. I think I saw some of eBay the other day for 20 per panel-
Ridiculuos.
The door merely needs hinges fitting to one side of a panel & a toggle
to shut it. ( a little padlock is a must, I think.)

> we are probably going to get him a harness and take him out for walks
> around the cul de sac anyway as he is a bit of a couch potato and he
> really does need to lose some weight, not so much to keep a tight rein
> on him but more to 'encourage' him into going out for a walk. Jessie
> doesn't need a harness and lead as she sticks close to me on our
> little walks, she won't go far away from me at all.

Jasper used to do the same thing. It didn't matter where I went, he
would follow me like a dog off the lead :o)

> right now though, all 3 seem to gone into early hibernation with all
> the **** weather we are having right now, it really does feel like
> november this evening, very windy, no fun at all on the river. There
> seems to be a snoring ball of fur somewhere in each room right now, on
> a sofa, on a bed, on a beanbag, and they dont't seem to be too
> bothered about going for excursions right now, they are not stupid,
> they know where it is warm dry and close to copious amounts of food
> and human slaves.

Lots of Lol's. cats are no fools! Of course they are milking the
situation-wouldn't you given half the chance. If I can't come back as
a cat in the next life, I'm not sure I want to come back at all......

> gettign mr mcgregor with his 'wandering' habit has made me think about
> gettign the backl garden more enclosed and secure and I know i will
> have to do that before he goes out into it, but i am not keen on
> building a massive enclosure over the whole thing. for a start i have
> no money to do so, and also this house is rendted and I doubt that the
> landlord will take too kindly to us dong weird stuff in his back
> garden, not that he would ever come round to check, but i don't want
> to push it.

Just call me when you think you are ready for one, & Paul will put
some panels by for you. 9' x 6' is plenty for three cats should they
all desire to go out @ the same time, & you can have 2 separate
housings if needs be....

> any decisions on the case with the negligent vet, re-lilly? any
> fuirther thoughts on what you will do?

Yes, I have decided that I am going to turn the offer down. I worry
that there is no guarantee that we will win,. but we do have a very
strong chance of winning.
The reason my solicitor asked me to consider the offer, is because he
thinks that if this is put before a judge, the chances are that we
will win, but no where near the amount that the vet is offering me in
damages right now. This, was why he told me to consider the matter
carefully.

The matter of the irregularities is right out of my hands now. A
report was made by my new vet, & sent straight off to the Royal
College of Veterinary Surgeons. What happens after that, is beyond my
control. However, both my vet & my solicitor is of the opinion that
she will be either severely reprimanded & have her licence to practise
suspended for a period, or struck off altogether. both also think that
the offer of money is a precursor to showing the judge how contrite
she feels about the situation, & why she is offering me so much money.
Yet when you consider it, what is 5k?!! It wouldn't do much more than
pay for damages incurred @ the time, & the bills that resulted in
sending her home with full blown avian flu!
(Worse, she told me that Lilly was dribbling for attention...???!!!
@#!?
It had nothing to do with the fact that she couldn't breath & had her
jaw hanging open for a week!!

As there are no regulations holding my tongue after accepting payment.
I am inclined to take the next offer & do just that. ( providing she
offers a further amount of course..). As nothing will change her
penalty, more than the body of surgeons that she is affiliated to, it
seems the most sensible step to take. Then I am free to go to the
press if I wish to. My solicitor made it clear from the start that
gagging me wasn't an option, if she expected an offer from her....

Of course I hope that they deal with her severely, but I'm bit worride
about going to court and loosing. I got legal aid to pursue this case,
through the RSPCA, so they also have a say in how far this case goes
too (via the new animal rights laws).
As soon as I have more news to share, I will....
Sheelagh>"o"<

Sheelagh >o
August 24th 07, 05:09 PM
On 23 Aug, 02:02, Cheryl > wrote:
> On Wed 22 Aug 2007 08:51:20p, Sherry wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav <news:1187830280.468648.236850
> @x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
>
> > Sheelagh, here are a couple of views of the enclosure I was talking
> > about that we built.
> >http://members.aol.com/sriddles/room1.jpg
> >http://members.aol.com/sriddles/room2.jpg
>
> Those pictures were the inspiration for my cat's enclosure. Before
> you posted that a few years ago I'd never heard of such a thing. Even
> now I don't know anyone who has anything like this. People often ask
> me how I did mine, but one of my neighbors thought for sure it must
> be for birds. :) The cats might like that if it were true!
>
> --
> Cheryl

Wonderful examples, well done!!. I have been researching the subject
on the net, & looking for some examples to give me a bit of
inspiration, & I have found loads! I think the best one has to be one
that has a tunnel running from a cat flap in the house which you can
close either way, to keep them in, or out as the case might be. Then a
large one with lots of high shelving, steps to reach the walkways, &
carpeting for them to use to lie on. Ladders with either sisal or
carpeting, to gain claw security whilst climbing.

The main thing that was holding me back was the price of the wire
involved, but not that I have confirmed with several other pen
designers that you can use even diamond wire, as long as the holes are
not too large, the cost has come down by 50% :o) So, it looks like we
are going to have our BIG Run after all. The one that they have now,
is functional, but nothing classy.
I must say that this example is of a really good one. well done to you
all!
Sheelagh>"o"<

Sheelagh >o
August 24th 07, 05:14 PM
On 23 Aug, 01:56, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "Sherry" > wrote in message
>
> ps.com...
>
>
>
> > On Aug 22, 11:03 am, "sheelagh" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in
> >> the
> >> USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
> >> people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never
> >> really
> >> arisen.
> >> As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
> >> contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in
> >> fact, I
> >> have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other
> >> people
> >> view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
> >> Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the
> >> vast
> >> majority in this group are from the USA.
> >> I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
> >> guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
> >> taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
> >> eases that guilt somewhat.
>
> >> When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you
> >> lost
> >> the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to
> >> tell
> >> people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's,
> >> it
> >> seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost
> >> guarantee
> >> will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
> >> protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?
>
> >> Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
> >> harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only
> >> out
> >> into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that
> >> I
> >> only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like
> >> to
> >> take that risk.
> >> I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
> >> something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder
> >> if
> >> you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you
> >> simply
> >> don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
> >> sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It
> >> is
> >> how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what
> >> they
> >> feel about them please?
> >> TIA,
> >> Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> >> --
> >> Sheelagh
>
> > Actually, most of the people I know with strictly indoor cats have
> > some kind of enclosure. Some are large
> > and elaborate, and some are just a small deck enclosed with wire, just
> > large enough for the cat to enjoy
> > lying in the sun. Our shelter has a fairly large enclosure. IMO, it is
> > a great compromise for the cat to enjoy
> > the outdoors and still be safe.
> > We enclosed an existing patio at my daughter's house, and installed a
> > cat flap for access. They absolutely loved
> > it, and it was fairly cheap to build.
>
> > Sherry
>
> My outdoor enclosure is called a Florida room. They love it- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Nothing wrong with that Matthew. When you have good reasons for not
allowing your cats out, I respect them. Knowing you, I know that in my
heart of hearts, that if you felt it was the right thing to do, then
you would have done it a long time ago.
Anyway, your cats live in a room in Florida, get far better comforts
than my cats with lots of garden space...Mine down have wall to wall
air conditioning, fancy fest, or first chance of tastes off the BBQ
either, Lol...
I think your cats do pretty well, & they know it :o)
Sheelagh>"o"<

Sheelagh >o
August 24th 07, 05:19 PM
On 23 Aug, 05:17, Suzie-Q > wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "sheelagh" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
> > USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
> > people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never really
> > arisen.
> > As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
> > contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in fact, I
> > have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other people
> > view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
> > Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
> > majority in this group are from the USA.
> > I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
> > guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
> > taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
> > eases that guilt somewhat.
>
> > When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you lost
> > the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to tell
> > people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's, it
> > seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost guarantee
> > will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
> > protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?
>
> > Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
> > harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only out
> > into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that I
> > only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like to
> > take that risk.
> > I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
> > something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder if
> > you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
> > don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
> > sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
> > how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
> > feel about them please?
> > TIA,
> > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> In fact, I've been thinking seriously about building one. I like to let
> my cats outdoors, but with a significant guarantee of safety. I think
> anyone who has outdoor cats should use an enclosure.
>
> --
>
> 8^)~ Sue (remove the x to email)
> ~~~~
> I reserve the absolute right to be smarter today than I was
> yesterday. -Adlai Stevenson
>
> As seen on YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/wacvet
>
> http://www.suzanne-eckhardt.com/http://www.intergnat.com/malebashing/http://www.intergnat.com/pussygames/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Same here, but only if it is safe for them to do so.
(ie: snakes, predators that could get through the wire netting, or
even heartworm.)
I do wonder if mosquito netting would help out here?
It is also important that the cat slave feels that this is ok too,
because ultimately, they are the carers here, & if they feel at all
unhappy about this, then I think it is not such a good idea.
Sheelagh>"o"<

Sheelagh >o
August 24th 07, 05:26 PM
On 24 Aug, 03:03, Cheryl > wrote:
> On Wed 22 Aug 2007 10:59:24p, Sherry wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> ups.com>:
>
> > Are they bad there this year? Wonder if there's an effective
> > mosquito repellent
> > for the enclosure. The vets here really push the heartworm
> > preventive meds too.
>
> I'd have to say yes. Any time I've been out doing yard work,
> standing out having a smoke, sitting outside reading, especially
> near dusk, the mosquitoes are massively swarming! I can't recall a
> time that I have been out during those hours that I don't get bit.
> It's so dry here, so I don't know how they're breeding, but
> apparently they are.
>
> When you wrote about mosquito repellent for the enclosure, my mind
> went directly to what they are trying to get all of the citizens of
> S Africa to use to prevent malaria - mosquito netting. They treat
> it with something. Hmm.. I wonder.....
>
> --
> Cheryl

Great minds think alike. I used to live in Africa too (West), & the
only protection e could offer, was mosquito netting around the
veranda. This allowed the animals out no the porch without fear of
being bitten to death. horrible things Mosquito's!!
I found out the hard way (as per normal!). As a child I was used with
Resochin every single Sunday. I would be last to leave table, & if
the rest of the family were in the kitchen, then my pill used to go
straight out of the window!!
about 6 months later, I got cerebral malaria, & wished I had never
existed. It took literally months to get over that..so no need tell me
about the effect of mosquitoes. The very word instills fear in my
heart, even now when I hear that word.

Let me know if you do try it please?
thanks
Sheelagh>"o"<

Sheelagh >o
August 24th 07, 05:41 PM
On 22 Aug, 17:34, "cindys" > wrote:
> "sheelagh" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]
> > For some weeks I have been pondering the subject of how our friends in the
> > USA view Cat enclosures. Whether the vast majority use them? Or do most
> > people not use them? I don't really know because the subject has never
> > really
> > arisen.
>
> ----------
> Very few people in the USA have cat enclosures. We either keep the cats
> inside or let the cats out. None of the cat rescue groups will adopt out a
> cat unless the wannabe slave first signs an agreement to keep the cat inside
> at all times (and not to declaw). As time goes on, more and more people
> belong to the "inside only" mindset. However, I doubt any of the rescue
> groups would object to an enclosure. The only reason I don't let my older
> cats out into our fenced yard (these are senior cats who could never jump
> the fence) is that outside = fleas. In all the years I have had cats, the
> only times I have ever had problems with fleas was when we were living in an
> apartment building and someone else's cat went outside and brought them into
> the building and on two other occasions when we brought in foster cats from
> the rescue agency. And I have never treated my cats for fleas as a
> precaution. I have done so only on the couple of occasions where there was a
> bonafide flea problem.
>
> In the first situation, once the fleas were in the building, we could not
> get rid of them. This was in the days before Revolution et al and our cats
> were forced to endure several flea "dips" only to have fleas again within
> the week. The apartment was flea-bombed and the carpets and furniture were
> treated by an exterminator every six weeks! And to no avail. After a year
> and a half of this, the only way we escaped the fleas was to buy a house and
> move out of the apartment. I had the new house pre-exterminated (before we
> moved in), and I also had the exterminator treat the furniture one last
> time. I never want to endure that ordeal again.
>
> All of my five current cats seem perfectly content inside the house, and for
> me, it's just not worth the flea risk to let them go out, and while I think
> Revolution is generally safe, it does still have a potential for toxicity,
> so I would prefer to avoid it if I can, particularly for the senior cats.
> Aside from the flea issue, I think the enclosure is a fantastic idea, and if
> I weren't so worried about fleas, I would have one in a heartbeat!
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
>
>
>
> > As most of you know, I decided that the time had come for me to choose to
> > contain my cat's after Ringo was left for dead. I don't regret it, in
> > fact, I
> > have become a great advocate for them. I just wondered how most other
> > people
> > view cat enclosures in other places in the world. Not just the USA, also,
> > Canada, Australia, Europe, everywhere really. I said USA, because the vast
> > majority in this group are from the USA.
> > I think the reason that we are starting to use them, is because we feel
> > guilty about the fact that we have taken a part of their liberty has been
> > taken from them, so I feel guilty, & allowing my cats out in an enclosure
> > eases that guilt somewhat.
>
> > When I tell you that people look @ you like you have lemon lip's, & you
> > lost
> > the plot when you tell them about it. Sometimes it is simply easier to
> > tell
> > people that we have them because we have rescue cat's, & pedigree cat's,
> > it
> > seems to mind set better with them. It is something they can almost
> > guarantee
> > will explain "why" I use one. If I were to say because it is for the
> > protection of my cats, they simply wouldn't understand; what protection?
>
> > Personally, I take some of my older masters & mistress's out on leads and
> > harness, but the younger one's and the none-fulltimers I only allow only
> > out
> > into the cat pen, in case I loose them. with the older one's, I know that
> > I
> > only have to call them & they will bound back to me. but, I wouldn't like
> > to
> > take that risk.
> > I would be interested to know how you think of them & whether they are
> > something that you would consider... or not, as the case may be? I wonder
> > if
> > you feel it would confuse the cat, or frighten them, or whether you simply
> > don't think it is safe for you to do- And why, as long as you don't mind
> > sharing it. It's not just the cats behaviour here that interests me- It is
> > how we as people view the subject, & why if no one minds sharing what they
> > feel about them please?
> > TIA,
> > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> > --
> > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> > Message posted viahttp://www.catkb.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
If your cats are protected with revolution, wouldn't this mean that
any flea stupid enough to jump on your poor puss cats, mean that they
would simply drop dead anyway? Or,. are you worride that they would
pick one up that would live long enough to come indoors, jump off then
start breeding?. Thanks for the answer though Cindy, it was
comprehensive and full of information I wasn't aware of actually.
Sheelagh>"o"<

Sherry
August 24th 07, 10:21 PM
On Aug 24, 10:17 am, "Sheelagh >o<" >
wrote:
> On 24 Aug, 05:07, Sherry > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 23, 9:03 pm, Cheryl > wrote:
>
> > > On Wed 22 Aug 2007 10:59:24p, Sherry wrote in
> > > rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> > > ups.com>:
>
> > > > Are they bad there this year? Wonder if there's an effective
> > > > mosquito repellent
> > > > for the enclosure. The vets here really push the heartworm
> > > > preventive meds too.
>
> > > I'd have to say yes. Any time I've been out doing yard work,
> > > standing out having a smoke, sitting outside reading, especially
> > > near dusk, the mosquitoes are massively swarming! I can't recall a
> > > time that I have been out during those hours that I don't get bit.
> > > It's so dry here, so I don't know how they're breeding, but
> > > apparently they are.
>
> > > When you wrote about mosquito repellent for the enclosure, my mind
> > > went directly to what they are trying to get all of the citizens of
> > > S Africa to use to prevent malaria - mosquito netting. They treat
> > > it with something. Hmm.. I wonder.....
>
> > > --
> > > Cheryl
>
> > Hey, that would be an option.
> > Let me know what you find out researching HW preventive. I'm going to
> > check it out too. Weirdly enough, we don't have
> > mosquitos here, even after all this rain??? But they cats do go out
> > sometimes, and I'm seriously considering putting
> > them on preventive.
>
> > Sherry- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Does preventative work, & is it as effective if not better than cure
> for Heart worm?
> I ask this because prevention is always better than dealing with the
> full blown disease? As far as I am currently aware, there is no cure
> for it, is there?
>
> Sheelagh>"o"<- Hide quoted text -
>
Sheelagh, I haven't researched very much yet but I do know that from
what I've read,
cats just die from heartworm, period. With dogs, there's a chance with
very expensive
treatment. They don't seem to give the cats even a chance. Sounds like
it is 100% fatal.
Or that's how I interpreted what I read.

22brix
August 24th 07, 10:41 PM
"Sherry" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Aug 24, 10:17 am, "Sheelagh >o<" >
> wrote:
>> On 24 Aug, 05:07, Sherry > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Aug 23, 9:03 pm, Cheryl > wrote:
>>
>> > > On Wed 22 Aug 2007 10:59:24p, Sherry wrote in
>> > > rec.pets.cats.health+behav
>> > > ups.com>:
>>
>> > > > Are they bad there this year? Wonder if there's an effective
>> > > > mosquito repellent
>> > > > for the enclosure. The vets here really push the heartworm
>> > > > preventive meds too.
>>
>> > > I'd have to say yes. Any time I've been out doing yard work,
>> > > standing out having a smoke, sitting outside reading, especially
>> > > near dusk, the mosquitoes are massively swarming! I can't recall a
>> > > time that I have been out during those hours that I don't get bit.
>> > > It's so dry here, so I don't know how they're breeding, but
>> > > apparently they are.
>>
>> > > When you wrote about mosquito repellent for the enclosure, my mind
>> > > went directly to what they are trying to get all of the citizens of
>> > > S Africa to use to prevent malaria - mosquito netting. They treat
>> > > it with something. Hmm.. I wonder.....
>>
>> > > --
>> > > Cheryl
>>
>> > Hey, that would be an option.
>> > Let me know what you find out researching HW preventive. I'm going to
>> > check it out too. Weirdly enough, we don't have
>> > mosquitos here, even after all this rain??? But they cats do go out
>> > sometimes, and I'm seriously considering putting
>> > them on preventive.
>>
>> > Sherry- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Does preventative work, & is it as effective if not better than cure
>> for Heart worm?
>> I ask this because prevention is always better than dealing with the
>> full blown disease? As far as I am currently aware, there is no cure
>> for it, is there?
>>
>> Sheelagh>"o"<- Hide quoted text -
>>
> Sheelagh, I haven't researched very much yet but I do know that from
> what I've read,
> cats just die from heartworm, period. With dogs, there's a chance with
> very expensive
> treatment. They don't seem to give the cats even a chance. Sounds like
> it is 100% fatal.
> Or that's how I interpreted what I read.
>
>

Actually, I've had two cats with heartworm. One of them had to be put to
sleep after a horrible 3 or 4 month illness but the other is doing great and
has been heartworm free for several years. Heartworm in cats isn't
uniformly fatal but there is no effective cure for it in cats so prevention
is really important if you are in an area with heartworm.

Good luck, Bonnie

Sherry
August 25th 07, 04:53 AM
On Aug 24, 4:41 pm, "22brix" > wrote:
> "Sherry" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 24, 10:17 am, "Sheelagh >o<" >
> > wrote:
> >> On 24 Aug, 05:07, Sherry > wrote:
>
> >> > On Aug 23, 9:03 pm, Cheryl > wrote:
>
> >> > > On Wed 22 Aug 2007 10:59:24p, Sherry wrote in
> >> > > rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> >> > > ups.com>:
>
> >> > > > Are they bad there this year? Wonder if there's an effective
> >> > > > mosquito repellent
> >> > > > for the enclosure. The vets here really push the heartworm
> >> > > > preventive meds too.
>
> >> > > I'd have to say yes. Any time I've been out doing yard work,
> >> > > standing out having a smoke, sitting outside reading, especially
> >> > > near dusk, the mosquitoes are massively swarming! I can't recall a
> >> > > time that I have been out during those hours that I don't get bit.
> >> > > It's so dry here, so I don't know how they're breeding, but
> >> > > apparently they are.
>
> >> > > When you wrote about mosquito repellent for the enclosure, my mind
> >> > > went directly to what they are trying to get all of the citizens of
> >> > > S Africa to use to prevent malaria - mosquito netting. They treat
> >> > > it with something. Hmm.. I wonder.....
>
> >> > > --
> >> > > Cheryl
>
> >> > Hey, that would be an option.
> >> > Let me know what you find out researching HW preventive. I'm going to
> >> > check it out too. Weirdly enough, we don't have
> >> > mosquitos here, even after all this rain??? But they cats do go out
> >> > sometimes, and I'm seriously considering putting
> >> > them on preventive.
>
> >> > Sherry- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> Does preventative work, & is it as effective if not better than cure
> >> for Heart worm?
> >> I ask this because prevention is always better than dealing with the
> >> full blown disease? As far as I am currently aware, there is no cure
> >> for it, is there?
>
> >> Sheelagh>"o"<- Hide quoted text -
>
> > Sheelagh, I haven't researched very much yet but I do know that from
> > what I've read,
> > cats just die from heartworm, period. With dogs, there's a chance with
> > very expensive
> > treatment. They don't seem to give the cats even a chance. Sounds like
> > it is 100% fatal.
> > Or that's how I interpreted what I read.
>
> Actually, I've had two cats with heartworm. One of them had to be put to
> sleep after a horrible 3 or 4 month illness but the other is doing great and
> has been heartworm free for several years. Heartworm in cats isn't
> uniformly fatal but there is no effective cure for it in cats so prevention
> is really important if you are in an area with heartworm.
>
> Good luck, Bonnie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I stand corrected! Thanks for the info., Bonnie. Glad your other kitty
is doing well.

Sherry

Sheelagh >o
August 27th 07, 06:19 PM
On 27 Aug, 03:19, "cindys" > wrote:
> "Sheelagh >o<" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> snip
>
> > If your cats are protected with revolution, wouldn't this mean that
> > any flea stupid enough to jump on your poor puss cats, mean that they
> > would simply drop dead anyway? '
>
> Yes, *if* my cats were protected with Revolution...but they're not. I have
> used Revolution only in the two instances where there were fleas already
> present (carried into my house on foster cats).
>
> >Or,. are you worride that they would
> > pick one up that would live long enough to come indoors, jump off then
> > start breeding?.
>
> No, I'm not worried about that. As far as I know, even if the flea lived
> long enough to come indoors, it would still be unable to reproduce and would
> die very quickly after that. As long as my cats are content being indoors
> only, I just keep them inside and don't use preventives. But if I were to
> build an enclosure and they went outside, then I would use a preventive.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
>
>
>
> >Thanks for the answer though Cindy, it was
> > comprehensive and full of information I wasn't aware of actually.
> > Sheelagh>"o"<- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thank you. That has just put my mind @ rest. The one thing that I was
worride about was them picking up fleas whilst they were outside, then
bringing them back indoors to use my house as a breeding ground. In
that case, it is all full ahead for the new cat run. I will post
photos as soon as we finish the latest one. Paul has decided that he
can make the panels himself, so that should save us a pretty penny
here & there.. Haven't been on Usenet so much recently.

Been outside digging the footings for the new pen, because we want to
have a high walk around the top, so the footings need to be sturdy to
support that. Activities are the next thing that pop to mind. We are
putting hide holes all over the place by using Carpet rolls( the thing
that most carpet is rolled around in the shop), they are just the
right size to cover with cheap carpet off cuts so that the cats can
curl up inside them. We have made several ladders for them to reach
the upper walk way, & a couple of hammocks for them to curl up on too.
They are human sized so that we can go out there and share their space
sometimes.

If anyone has any other idea's, I would love to hear about them.
Inspiration is not coming as fast as I would like it. Best to find out
now in the planning stages, than after it's halfway up, & we haven't
catered for it!!
Thanks Cindy,
Sheelagh>"o"<