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View Full Version : I need your sagely advice and wisdom again, people. Declaw or not declaw, that is my question.


-Lost
September 28th 07, 06:10 AM
After talking with my friend at the animal hospital for the
thousandth time today, they started mentioning some other things that
I should have done before officially calling Gabby "good to go."

1. Get her spayed - of course, this is already planned.
2. "ridder of critters" they said. Done.
3. Tons more general how to take care of a cat tips. Done.
...
19. Maybe not 19th, but the last thing they said was, "And make sure
to get her declawed." Not so sure about...

Forgive my ignorance on this one, and cat lovers please don't bounce
something off of my head, but I thought as long as you were...

1. Not in fear of your life.
2. Your other animals got along fine with kitty.
3. Kitty uses her abundance of play things and scratching posts,
walls, climbs, and other assorted cat approved claw-holders.
4. Kitty eventually stops chasing you down and attacking you from
behind.

....that you did not have to get a cat declawed. My friend made it
out like it is a must along with spaying an animal.

What's the word cat people?

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

cybercat
September 28th 07, 06:21 AM
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> After talking with my friend at the animal hospital for the
> thousandth time today, they started mentioning some other things that
> I should have done before officially calling Gabby "good to go."
>

Your friend is no friend. Do not mutilate your cat.

Meghan Noecker
September 28th 07, 09:46 AM
On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 00:10:37 -0500, "-Lost"
> wrote:

>After talking with my friend at the animal hospital for the
>thousandth time today, they started mentioning some other things that
>I should have done before officially calling Gabby "good to go."
>
>1. Get her spayed - of course, this is already planned.
>2. "ridder of critters" they said. Done.
>3. Tons more general how to take care of a cat tips. Done.
>..
>19. Maybe not 19th, but the last thing they said was, "And make sure
>to get her declawed." Not so sure about...
>
>Forgive my ignorance on this one, and cat lovers please don't bounce
>something off of my head, but I thought as long as you were...
>
>1. Not in fear of your life.
>2. Your other animals got along fine with kitty.
>3. Kitty uses her abundance of play things and scratching posts,
>walls, climbs, and other assorted cat approved claw-holders.
>4. Kitty eventually stops chasing you down and attacking you from
>behind.
>
>...that you did not have to get a cat declawed. My friend made it
>out like it is a must along with spaying an animal.
>
>What's the word cat people?


Your friend is an idiot. Declawing actually takes off the last section
of the toe, is painful, and also removes their ability to do
instinctual behaviors. All you need is a godo cat tree, some patience,
and some clippers.

-Lost
September 28th 07, 12:59 PM
Response from "cybercat" >:

> "-Lost" > wrote in message
> ...
>> After talking with my friend at the animal hospital for the
>> thousandth time today, they started mentioning some other things
>> that I should have done before officially calling Gabby "good to
>> go."
>>
>
> Your friend is no friend. Do not mutilate your cat.

I figured that would be the general response. I wonder why it is
recommended at all?

The only animal refuge center we have recommended it as well, but I
would imagine it was to minimize the damage they might do to each
other at the center.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 28th 07, 01:06 PM
Response from Meghan Noecker >:

> Your friend is an idiot. Declawing actually takes off the last
> section of the toe, is painful, and also removes their ability to
> do instinctual behaviors. All you need is a godo cat tree, some
> patience, and some clippers.

Well, in their defense, I doubt they would recommend something that
the doctor themselves did not recommend.

I could be wrong though. And I am actually going to ask them today
to be sure. If they are giving me misinformation or suggestions the
doctor would not recommend then I will seriously reevaluate my
sources.

Now, for the rest of your response... um... you have to clip kitty
claws? Where in the world am I getting MY information?

I was told by many not to worry about cutting their nails. That in
fact a good scratching area (which I have provided three of) was
sufficient enough to help them shed their claws.

Assuming this is incorrect, I will explain "shed their claws" to
avoid further confusion. I was told that cats claws were similar to
dogs in that they eventually flake or grow like exoskeletons, whereby
the newer nail underneath pushes the older one off. Or in the case
of a scratching post, helps remove it.

Is that correct?

Thanks for the feedback, Meghan.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

cybercat
September 28th 07, 04:07 PM
"-Lost" > wrote
>>
>> Your friend is no friend. Do not mutilate your cat.
>
> I figured that would be the general response. I wonder why it is
> recommended at all?

It is recommended for human convenience because many people
cannot be bothered to provide things cats like to scratch better
than furniture and rugs, and so that vets can make money. Ignorance
or pure cruelty can be the only reasons anyone would recommend it.

I was a kid (maybe 23) when I took my first cat in to be
spayed, and they said, "Do you want her declawed too?"
She was a hellion, and I was thinking, just the claws themselves
taken out--I never thought surgical hacking off of the bones in
her toes. I said yes. They ruined her beautiful little feet, she
became anxious, stopped covering her poo, and became a
biter as well. It is horrible, one of the worst things I have been
responsible for in my life. I have two cats now, and provide
scratchers and trim claws--just the tips--monthly. That is all
you need to do.

Did you understand the procedure when you asked this
question?

And will you voice your opinion about it to the shelters?

cybercat
September 28th 07, 04:11 PM
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Response from Meghan Noecker >:
>
>> Your friend is an idiot. Declawing actually takes off the last
>> section of the toe, is painful, and also removes their ability to
>> do instinctual behaviors. All you need is a godo cat tree, some
>> patience, and some clippers.
>
> Well, in their defense, I doubt they would recommend something that
> the doctor themselves did not recommend.

Then the doctor is cruel and disgusting.
>
> I could be wrong though. And I am actually going to ask them today
> to be sure. If they are giving me misinformation or suggestions the
> doctor would not recommend then I will seriously reevaluate my
> sources.
>
> Now, for the rest of your response... um... you have to clip kitty
> claws? Where in the world am I getting MY information?
>
> I was told by many not to worry about cutting their nails. That in
> fact a good scratching area (which I have provided three of) was
> sufficient enough to help them shed their claws.

No. They actually sharpen them on scratchers, which is fine, because
they are also working their muscles and stretching.
>
> Assuming this is incorrect, I will explain "shed their claws" to
> avoid further confusion. I was told that cats claws were similar to
> dogs in that they eventually flake or grow like exoskeletons, whereby
> the newer nail underneath pushes the older one off. Or in the case
> of a scratching post, helps remove it.
>
> Is that correct?
>

Just the sheath comes off. You want to get clippers and clip just the sharp
tip so that when you play with your cat, or he/she walks on carpet etc. the
claws don't catch you or it. It is easy and simple--if your cat does not
like
it, get a friend to help you. We used to roll Boo up in a beach towel, I
would hold her with just one foot at a time sticking out, and soothe her
while my husband clipped. Now she just lets us do it--because she gets
a treat afterward.

bobblespin[_2_]
September 28th 07, 04:19 PM
"-Lost" > wrote in
:

>
> Well, in their defense, I doubt they would recommend something that
> the doctor themselves did not recommend.
>

Not all vets are in it solely for the health of the animal. Some are in
it mainly for the money.


> I could be wrong though. And I am actually going to ask them today
> to be sure. If they are giving me misinformation or suggestions the
> doctor would not recommend then I will seriously reevaluate my
> sources.
>
> Now, for the rest of your response... um... you have to clip kitty
> claws? Where in the world am I getting MY information?

With a claw trimmer, just clip the tip of each claw, before the pink
part. Get kitty used to it asap my touching her paws gently every day
so she gets used to her paws being handled. Praise and talk sweetly the
whole time so it becomes a nice experience. If you don't clip the
claws, they can become very long and very sharp and will hook into
everything as they walk and play. Even our outdoor cat needs to be
clipped because walking on grass doesn't stop them from growing too
long.

>
> I was told by many not to worry about cutting their nails. That in
> fact a good scratching area (which I have provided three of) was
> sufficient enough to help them shed their claws.

They shed the outer layer, but the claws still grow and grow.
>
> Assuming this is incorrect, I will explain "shed their claws" to
> avoid further confusion. I was told that cats claws were similar to
> dogs in that they eventually flake or grow like exoskeletons, whereby
> the newer nail underneath pushes the older one off. Or in the case
> of a scratching post, helps remove it.
>
> Is that correct?
>
> Thanks for the feedback, Meghan.

PLEASE DO NOT DECLAW YOUR CAT. They suffer horribly, even with pain
medication.

Bobble

Grace
September 28th 07, 04:33 PM
Do not declaw. As many have said already---it is mutilation,
involving not just the nail but the toe as well. None of our vets
around here will even do it anymore. In the event that kittie turns
out to be a furniture or people scratcher, and it seems to be getting
out of hand, have your vet apply a set of soft tips.

Grace

Sheelagh >o
September 28th 07, 05:35 PM
On 28 Sep, 06:10, "-Lost" > wrote:
> After talking with my friend at the animal hospital for the
> thousandth time today, they started mentioning some other things that
> I should have done before officially calling Gabby "good to go."
>
> 1. Get her spayed - of course, this is already planned.
> 2. "ridder of critters" they said. Done.
> 3. Tons more general how to take care of a cat tips. Done.
> ..
> 19. Maybe not 19th, but the last thing they said was, "And make sure
> to get her declawed." Not so sure about...
>
> Forgive my ignorance on this one, and cat lovers please don't bounce
> something off of my head, but I thought as long as you were...
>
> 1. Not in fear of your life.
> 2. Your other animals got along fine with kitty.
> 3. Kitty uses her abundance of play things and scratching posts,
> walls, climbs, and other assorted cat approved claw-holders.
> 4. Kitty eventually stops chasing you down and attacking you from
> behind.
>
> ...that you did not have to get a cat declawed. My friend made it
> out like it is a must along with spaying an animal.
>
> What's the word cat people?
>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

De-clawing a cat is like chopping each digit off @ the first knuckle.
Whoever told you it is a must, is either ignorant, or cruel, yet
handing out advice on something they are not fully informed about. We
have endless questions about declawing, & it is always a passionate
subject!

It also causes behavioural problems, & it is very painful for the cat.
Can you possibly imagine what it must be like to have the ends of your
fingers chopped off? It is almost unheard of in the UK, & rightly so
too.

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but if you are worride
about clawing, there are two products that will help your cat.
1: Lots of scratching posts to stretch out their full body length,
2: & also there is a new product on the market, that evades me right
now ( It will come to me @ 4 am no doubt!!), but it is like a rubber
substance that you can paint on all claws, that will stop the effect
of side swiped by your cat who might be waiting to play pounce with
you. You just paint it on like nail polish. I hear it is very
effective. Perhaps someone else could provide a link to the product I
am referring to if they can remember the name of it?
I hope this helps,
Sheelagh >"o"<

-Lost
September 28th 07, 06:13 PM
Response from "cybercat" >:

> "-Lost" > wrote
>>>
>>> Your friend is no friend. Do not mutilate your cat.
>>
>> I figured that would be the general response. I wonder why it is
>> recommended at all?
>
> It is recommended for human convenience because many people
> cannot be bothered to provide things cats like to scratch better
> than furniture and rugs, and so that vets can make money. Ignorance
> or pure cruelty can be the only reasons anyone would recommend it.

Pfft. I have learned there is no such thing when you CARE for
animals. Either you love 'em or you do not.

I always try to make sure I pay attention to the ones who are in it
for the loot as well. That is partly why I ask so many questions. I
KNOW I need help! Hahaha!

> I was a kid (maybe 23) when I took my first cat in to be
> spayed, and they said, "Do you want her declawed too?"
> She was a hellion, and I was thinking, just the claws themselves
> taken out--I never thought surgical hacking off of the bones in
> her toes. I said yes. They ruined her beautiful little feet, she
> became anxious, stopped covering her poo, and became a
> biter as well. It is horrible, one of the worst things I have been
> responsible for in my life. I have two cats now, and provide
> scratchers and trim claws--just the tips--monthly. That is all
> you need to do.

Ugh, I am sorry you AND your kitty had to go through that.

> Did you understand the procedure when you asked this
> question?

Nope. And after reading everyone's post it almost made me cry. I
have known a few declawed kitties in my time and never knew it was
like that.

> And will you voice your opinion about it to the shelters?

Well, this is going to sound pretty dumb I am sure, but what should I
say? I mean, call back and go, "Hey by the way, the lady who runs
the refuge should stop declawing the cats! It is cruel and not only
physically scars the kitty, but does psychological damage!"

I just do not want to go to jail for threatening/stalking/whatever.
And I have got a temper so if they were to get mouthy about it
instead of talk about it, I would most likely end up cussing them
out.

Maybe I should call from a payphone...

Anyway. The choice was already made, but now it will NEVER have the
possibility to change.

Gabby keeps her claws.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

CatNipped[_2_]
September 28th 07, 06:17 PM
Please read this before making a decision:

http://www.maxshouse.com/facts_about_declawing.htm

Hugs,

CatNipped


"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> After talking with my friend at the animal hospital for the
> thousandth time today, they started mentioning some other things that
> I should have done before officially calling Gabby "good to go."
>
> 1. Get her spayed - of course, this is already planned.
> 2. "ridder of critters" they said. Done.
> 3. Tons more general how to take care of a cat tips. Done.
> ..
> 19. Maybe not 19th, but the last thing they said was, "And make sure
> to get her declawed." Not so sure about...
>
> Forgive my ignorance on this one, and cat lovers please don't bounce
> something off of my head, but I thought as long as you were...
>
> 1. Not in fear of your life.
> 2. Your other animals got along fine with kitty.
> 3. Kitty uses her abundance of play things and scratching posts,
> walls, climbs, and other assorted cat approved claw-holders.
> 4. Kitty eventually stops chasing you down and attacking you from
> behind.
>
> ...that you did not have to get a cat declawed. My friend made it
> out like it is a must along with spaying an animal.
>
> What's the word cat people?
>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 28th 07, 06:26 PM
Response from "cybercat" >:

<snip>

>> Assuming this is incorrect, I will explain "shed their claws" to
>> avoid further confusion. I was told that cats claws were similar
>> to dogs in that they eventually flake or grow like exoskeletons,
>> whereby the newer nail underneath pushes the older one off. Or
>> in the case of a scratching post, helps remove it.
>>
>> Is that correct?
>>
>
> Just the sheath comes off. You want to get clippers and clip just
> the sharp tip so that when you play with your cat, or he/she walks
> on carpet etc. the claws don't catch you or it. It is easy and
> simple--if your cat does not like
> it, get a friend to help you. We used to roll Boo up in a beach
> towel, I would hold her with just one foot at a time sticking out,
> and soothe her while my husband clipped. Now she just lets us do
> it--because she gets a treat afterward.

Ooooh, OK. Just the tips, got it.

Definitely going to try the towel method. When Gabby first came to
us we had to bathe her a time or two to rid her of paint, pests, and
poo (literally). Anyway... after the bath she would literally fall
slick out wrapped in a towel. So she definitely digs it!

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 28th 07, 06:28 PM
Response from bobblespin >:

> With a claw trimmer, just clip the tip of each claw, before the
> pink part. Get kitty used to it asap my touching her paws gently
> every day so she gets used to her paws being handled. Praise and
> talk sweetly the whole time so it becomes a nice experience. If
> you don't clip the claws, they can become very long and very sharp
> and will hook into everything as they walk and play. Even our
> outdoor cat needs to be clipped because walking on grass doesn't
> stop them from growing too long.

Do you have a recommendation for one? I was recently reading an
article about using a dremel on doggy toe nails, but I imagine that
Gabby's are too small to use a dremel on.

> PLEASE DO NOT DECLAW YOUR CAT. They suffer horribly, even with
> pain medication.

Fine by me.

Thanks for the feedback, Bobble.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

Jean B.
September 28th 07, 06:36 PM
-Lost wrote:
> After talking with my friend at the animal hospital for the
> thousandth time today, they started mentioning some other things that
> I should have done before officially calling Gabby "good to go."
>
> 1. Get her spayed - of course, this is already planned.
> 2. "ridder of critters" they said. Done.
> 3. Tons more general how to take care of a cat tips. Done.
> ..
> 19. Maybe not 19th, but the last thing they said was, "And make sure
> to get her declawed." Not so sure about...
>
> Forgive my ignorance on this one, and cat lovers please don't bounce
> something off of my head, but I thought as long as you were...
>
> 1. Not in fear of your life.
> 2. Your other animals got along fine with kitty.
> 3. Kitty uses her abundance of play things and scratching posts,
> walls, climbs, and other assorted cat approved claw-holders.
> 4. Kitty eventually stops chasing you down and attacking you from
> behind.
>
> ...that you did not have to get a cat declawed. My friend made it
> out like it is a must along with spaying an animal.
>
> What's the word cat people?
>
No, no, no! Don't do it! For some reason, my vet suggested
that when I got Mingy neutered. I was pretty ignorant about
cats then, but I am really happy I read up on that and didn't
allow it.

--
Jean B.

-Lost
September 28th 07, 06:41 PM
Response from "CatNipped" >:

> Please read this before making a decision:
>
> http://www.maxshouse.com/facts_about_declawing.htm

Darn you, CatNipped. I already felt like crying...

Seriously though, thanks for that information. I have already now made
the decision that my kitty keeps her claws, but now I have the reason
why to show my family and my friend who have bad news about (I am going
to post a reply to the main thread about what they said).

Thanks again, CatNipped.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 28th 07, 06:42 PM
Response from "Jean B." >:

>> ...that you did not have to get a cat declawed. My friend made
>> it out like it is a must along with spaying an animal.
>>
>> What's the word cat people?
>>
> No, no, no! Don't do it! For some reason, my vet suggested
> that when I got Mingy neutered. I was pretty ignorant about
> cats then, but I am really happy I read up on that and didn't
> allow it.

Oh man, same here! I am so glad I checked with you all first. I have
bad news... see my reply to this thread.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 28th 07, 07:01 PM
Well as promised I called today and talked to my friend. The doctor
does in fact recommend getting them declawed. Instead of piece it
together for you, I am going to clean up and copy and paste what I
was able to type out while we talked.

"Hey, Friend. How are you?"
Them: "Good -Lost, you?"

"Ah, so-so. I had a few more questions for you if you do not mind."
Them: "Shoot!"

"I was reading up on some different methods to stop kitty from
clawing everything in sight..."
Them: "Right, I remember..."

"Well, could you explain the entire declawing process and do you
recommend it or does the animal hospital recommend it?"
Them: "Well, first off... how old is kitty?"

"About 3 months give or take a month."
Them: "Well that is the best time to get kitty declawed. In fact, we
have a spay and front claw declawing program with a sterile scalpel
that runs $128. However, we HIGHLY recommend the laser which seals
nerve endings and cauterizes blood vessels. There is no bleeding, it
is less painful for kitty, they have a quicker recovery time and the
risk of infection is drastically reduced. That runs about $205, but
does not include pain management or vaccinations."

"Wow. So, do you recommend I do it? And what does the doctor feel
about it?"
Them: "Well, actually the administrator of both sites recommends it
as does the doctor. I recommend it too if kitty is being destructive
and you simply cannot break her from being destructive. Have you
tried shaking a piggy bank at her or squirting her with a spray
bottle full of water?"

"No. She is not destructive in my opinion."
Them: "Oh. Well, why do you want to get her declawed then?"

"I don't! I was asking if it was recommended."
Them: "Oh, well, yeah, we recommend it. Also, the sooner the better.
We have found that kitties respond much better when they have it done
early on rather than later in life."

"How so?"
Them: "How so what?"

"How do they become used to not having toes?"
Them: "No silly, it does not cut their toes off, only the tips of
them that contain the nail. A lot of people think it cruel in fact
to do it, but then you have some people who have nice things or
leather furniture and whatnot and they do not want their things
ruined. So, what were your other questions?"

"To be honest, I cannot remember what the others were."

At this point I just wanted to get off the phone.

Them: "Well if you are worried about kitty's health afterward we
provide lint-free, dust-free, shredded newspaper-like litter for you,
in fact we call it 'Yesterday's News', so she'll be covered there.
Do you want to set up an appointment?"

"I need to talk it over with my spouse first. I'll let you know."
Them: "OK, -Lost. If you have any other questions feel free and give
us a call."

"All right. Bu-bye."
Them: "Bye."

Also, when I first asked actually, they said "Well, we DO offer the
service." But it quickly went from me thinking, "Oh, maybe they do
not recommend it actually." to "They recommend the hell out of it."

They also mentioned that if she was to be an indoor kitty that I need
not worry about things like her being able to defend herself.

I am seriously disappointed in this animal hospital now.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 28th 07, 07:22 PM
Response from "-Lost" >:

> Well as promised I called today and talked to my friend. The
> doctor does in fact recommend getting them declawed. Instead of
> piece it together for you, I am going to clean up and copy and
> paste what I was able to type out while we talked.
>
> "Hey, Friend. How are you?"
> Them: "Good -Lost, you?"
>
> "Ah, so-so. I had a few more questions for you if you do not
> mind." Them: "Shoot!"
>
> "I was reading up on some different methods to stop kitty from
> clawing everything in sight..."
> Them: "Right, I remember..."
>
> "Well, could you explain the entire declawing process and do you
> recommend it or does the animal hospital recommend it?"
> Them: "Well, first off... how old is kitty?"
>
> "About 3 months give or take a month."
> Them: "Well that is the best time to get kitty declawed. In fact,
> we have a spay and front claw declawing program with a sterile
> scalpel that runs $128. However, we HIGHLY recommend the laser
> which seals nerve endings and cauterizes blood vessels. There is
> no bleeding, it is less painful for kitty, they have a quicker
> recovery time and the risk of infection is drastically reduced.
> That runs about $205, but does not include pain management or
> vaccinations."
>
> "Wow. So, do you recommend I do it? And what does the doctor
> feel about it?"
> Them: "Well, actually the administrator of both sites recommends
> it as does the doctor. I recommend it too if kitty is being
> destructive and you simply cannot break her from being
> destructive. Have you tried shaking a piggy bank at her or
> squirting her with a spray bottle full of water?"
>
> "No. She is not destructive in my opinion."
> Them: "Oh. Well, why do you want to get her declawed then?"
>
> "I don't! I was asking if it was recommended."
> Them: "Oh, well, yeah, we recommend it. Also, the sooner the
> better. We have found that kitties respond much better when they
> have it done early on rather than later in life."
>
> "How so?"
> Them: "How so what?"
>
> "How do they become used to not having toes?"
> Them: "No silly, it does not cut their toes off, only the tips of
> them that contain the nail. A lot of people think it cruel in
> fact to do it, but then you have some people who have nice things
> or leather furniture and whatnot and they do not want their things
> ruined. So, what were your other questions?"
>
> "To be honest, I cannot remember what the others were."
>
> At this point I just wanted to get off the phone.
>
> Them: "Well if you are worried about kitty's health afterward we
> provide lint-free, dust-free, shredded newspaper-like litter for
> you, in fact we call it 'Yesterday's News', so she'll be covered
> there. Do you want to set up an appointment?"
>
> "I need to talk it over with my spouse first. I'll let you know."
> Them: "OK, -Lost. If you have any other questions feel free and
> give us a call."
>
> "All right. Bu-bye."
> Them: "Bye."
>
> Also, when I first asked actually, they said "Well, we DO offer
> the service." But it quickly went from me thinking, "Oh, maybe
> they do not recommend it actually." to "They recommend the hell
> out of it."
>
> They also mentioned that if she was to be an indoor kitty that I
> need not worry about things like her being able to defend herself.
>
> I am seriously disappointed in this animal hospital now.

And to boot... they told me to check out the Web site for the animal
hospital (just noticed I have been calling it the animal hospital
when it is the veterinary clinic) and when I clicked on services, I
am fairly certain I saw a picture of them actually performing the
laser onychectomy.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 28th 07, 07:36 PM
Response from "Sheelagh >o<" >:

> De-clawing a cat is like chopping each digit off @ the first
> knuckle. Whoever told you it is a must, is either ignorant, or
> cruel, yet handing out advice on something they are not fully
> informed about. We have endless questions about declawing, & it is
> always a passionate subject!

I see that! CatNipped gave me a wonderfully informative article on
it that brought tears to my eyes. I expect it will do the same when
I show the rest of the family when they get home.

> I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but if you are
> worride about clawing,

Actually, was not REALLY worried about, only slightly. But I do not
consider her destructive in the least.

I was however under the false impression that it was healthier (for
lack of better word) for the kitty.

> there are two products that will help your cat. 1: Lots of
> scratching posts to stretch out their full body length,

Done! I have provided her a scratching post, a portable scratching
wall, and also a scratch/climb.

> 2: & also there is a new product on the market, that evades me
> right now (It will come to me @ 4 am no doubt!!), but it is like a
> rubber substance that you can paint on all claws, that will stop
> the effect of side swiped by your cat who might be waiting to play
> pounce with you. You just paint it on like nail polish. I hear it
> is very effective. Perhaps someone else could provide a link to
> the product I am referring to if they can remember the name of it?
> I hope this helps,

Is it this?

http://www.softclaws.com/

This looks promising.


Thanks for the help, Sheelagh >"o"<.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 28th 07, 07:37 PM
Response from Grace >:

> Do not declaw. As many have said already---it is mutilation,
> involving not just the nail but the toe as well. None of our vets
> around here will even do it anymore. In the event that kittie turns
> out to be a furniture or people scratcher, and it seems to be getting
> out of hand, have your vet apply a set of soft tips.

Are those anything like these?

http://www.softclaws.com/

Thanks, Grace.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

Mashauk
September 28th 07, 08:44 PM
I can't believe someone who works at an animal hospital would
recommend declawing. It's illegal in this country, considered to be
an act of animal cruelty, thank goodness.

Marcia

On 28 Sep, 06:10, "-Lost" > wrote:
> After talking with my friend at the animal hospital for the
> thousandth time today, they started mentioning some other things that
> I should have done before officially calling Gabby "good to go."
>
> 1. Get her spayed - of course, this is already planned.
> 2. "ridder of critters" they said. Done.
> 3. Tons more general how to take care of a cat tips. Done.
> ..
> 19. Maybe not 19th, but the last thing they said was, "And make sure
> to get her declawed." Not so sure about...
>
> Forgive my ignorance on this one, and cat lovers please don't bounce
> something off of my head, but I thought as long as you were...
>
> 1. Not in fear of your life.
> 2. Your other animals got along fine with kitty.
> 3. Kitty uses her abundance of play things and scratching posts,
> walls, climbs, and other assorted cat approved claw-holders.
> 4. Kitty eventually stops chasing you down and attacking you from
> behind.
>
> ...that you did not have to get a cat declawed. My friend made it
> out like it is a must along with spaying an animal.
>
> What's the word cat people?
>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

Mashauk
September 28th 07, 08:47 PM
I've never clipped my cat's claws either, I wouldn't dare for a
start! He uses the old sofa (and the new sofa when I'm out), the tree
outside and anything else he fancies, he, after all, a cat....

I reckon if you can't handle everything in the house being
systematically moulted on, hairballed up on, licked, scratched etc -
don't live with a cat!

Marcia

On 28 Sep, 13:06, "-Lost" > wrote:
> Response from Meghan Noecker >:
>
> > Your friend is an idiot. Declawing actually takes off the last
> > section of the toe, is painful, and also removes their ability to
> > do instinctual behaviors. All you need is a godo cat tree, some
> > patience, and some clippers.
>
> Well, in their defense, I doubt they would recommend something that
> the doctor themselves did not recommend.
>
> I could be wrong though. And I am actually going to ask them today
> to be sure. If they are giving me misinformation or suggestions the
> doctor would not recommend then I will seriously reevaluate my
> sources.
>
> Now, for the rest of your response... um... you have to clip kitty
> claws? Where in the world am I getting MY information?
>
> I was told by many not to worry about cutting their nails. That in
> fact a good scratching area (which I have provided three of) was
> sufficient enough to help them shed their claws.
>
> Assuming this is incorrect, I will explain "shed their claws" to
> avoid further confusion. I was told that cats claws were similar to
> dogs in that they eventually flake or grow like exoskeletons, whereby
> the newer nail underneath pushes the older one off. Or in the case
> of a scratching post, helps remove it.
>
> Is that correct?
>
> Thanks for the feedback, Meghan.
>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

bobblespin[_2_]
September 28th 07, 09:22 PM
"-Lost" > wrote in
:

> Do you have a recommendation for one? I was recently reading an
> article about using a dremel on doggy toe nails, but I imagine that
> Gabby's are too small to use a dremel on.

We've used this kind for about 25 years. Maybe there are better ones out
now, but this has always worked fine for us. I'm sure they're available
anywhere pet supplies are sold.

http://tinyurl.com/2493fw

Bobble

CatNipped[_2_]
September 28th 07, 09:57 PM
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Well as promised I called today and talked to my friend. The doctor
> does in fact recommend getting them declawed. Instead of piece it
> together for you, I am going to clean up and copy and paste what I
> was able to type out while we talked.
>
> "Hey, Friend. How are you?"
> Them: "Good -Lost, you?"
>
> "Ah, so-so. I had a few more questions for you if you do not mind."
> Them: "Shoot!"
>
> "I was reading up on some different methods to stop kitty from
> clawing everything in sight..."
> Them: "Right, I remember..."
>
> "Well, could you explain the entire declawing process and do you
> recommend it or does the animal hospital recommend it?"
> Them: "Well, first off... how old is kitty?"
>
> "About 3 months give or take a month."
> Them: "Well that is the best time to get kitty declawed. In fact, we
> have a spay and front claw declawing program with a sterile scalpel
> that runs $128. However, we HIGHLY recommend the laser which seals
> nerve endings and cauterizes blood vessels. There is no bleeding, it
> is less painful for kitty, they have a quicker recovery time and the
> risk of infection is drastically reduced. That runs about $205, but
> does not include pain management or vaccinations."
>
> "Wow. So, do you recommend I do it? And what does the doctor feel
> about it?"
> Them: "Well, actually the administrator of both sites recommends it
> as does the doctor. I recommend it too if kitty is being destructive
> and you simply cannot break her from being destructive. Have you
> tried shaking a piggy bank at her or squirting her with a spray
> bottle full of water?"
>
> "No. She is not destructive in my opinion."
> Them: "Oh. Well, why do you want to get her declawed then?"
>
> "I don't! I was asking if it was recommended."
> Them: "Oh, well, yeah, we recommend it. Also, the sooner the better.
> We have found that kitties respond much better when they have it done
> early on rather than later in life."
>
> "How so?"
> Them: "How so what?"
>
> "How do they become used to not having toes?"
> Them: "No silly, it does not cut their toes off, only the tips of
> them that contain the nail. A lot of people think it cruel in fact
> to do it, but then you have some people who have nice things or
> leather furniture and whatnot and they do not want their things
> ruined. So, what were your other questions?"
>
> "To be honest, I cannot remember what the others were."
>
> At this point I just wanted to get off the phone.
>
> Them: "Well if you are worried about kitty's health afterward we
> provide lint-free, dust-free, shredded newspaper-like litter for you,
> in fact we call it 'Yesterday's News', so she'll be covered there.
> Do you want to set up an appointment?"
>
> "I need to talk it over with my spouse first. I'll let you know."
> Them: "OK, -Lost. If you have any other questions feel free and give
> us a call."
>
> "All right. Bu-bye."
> Them: "Bye."
>
> Also, when I first asked actually, they said "Well, we DO offer the
> service." But it quickly went from me thinking, "Oh, maybe they do
> not recommend it actually." to "They recommend the hell out of it."
>
> They also mentioned that if she was to be an indoor kitty that I need
> not worry about things like her being able to defend herself.
>
> I am seriously disappointed in this animal hospital now.

Oh it's very beneficial - *FOR THE VET'S POCKETBOOK!!!* When I was looking
for a new vet, I would call and ask them if the did declawing. If they said
yes they got scratched off my list and I called the next one. Any vet who
can so seriously maim a healthy animal like this is, in my opinion,
seriously unethical.

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

CatNipped[_2_]
September 28th 07, 10:13 PM
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Response from "CatNipped" >:
>
>> Please read this before making a decision:
>>
>> http://www.maxshouse.com/facts_about_declawing.htm
>
> Darn you, CatNipped. I already felt like crying...
>
> Seriously though, thanks for that information. I have already now made
> the decision that my kitty keeps her claws, but now I have the reason
> why to show my family and my friend who have bad news about (I am going
> to post a reply to the main thread about what they said).

Actually, you should thank Phil P. - it's his web site. He has the most
comprehensive information about cats that I've ever seen in one place. Go
to http://www.maxshouse.com/ for the main page and you'll get all the info
you need to care for you cat.

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> Thanks again, CatNipped.
>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

Suzie-Q[_2_]
September 28th 07, 11:02 PM
In article >,
"-Lost" > wrote:

> After talking with my friend at the animal hospital for the
> thousandth time today, they started mentioning some other things that
> I should have done before officially calling Gabby "good to go."
>
> 1. Get her spayed - of course, this is already planned.
> 2. "ridder of critters" they said. Done.
> 3. Tons more general how to take care of a cat tips. Done.
> ..
> 19. Maybe not 19th, but the last thing they said was, "And make sure
> to get her declawed." Not so sure about...
>
> Forgive my ignorance on this one, and cat lovers please don't bounce
> something off of my head, but I thought as long as you were...
>
> 1. Not in fear of your life.
> 2. Your other animals got along fine with kitty.
> 3. Kitty uses her abundance of play things and scratching posts,
> walls, climbs, and other assorted cat approved claw-holders.
> 4. Kitty eventually stops chasing you down and attacking you from
> behind.
>
> ...that you did not have to get a cat declawed. My friend made it
> out like it is a must along with spaying an animal.
>
> What's the word cat people?


NOT!!!!!!!!

--

8^)~ Sue (remove the x to email)
~~~~
I reserve the absolute right to be smarter today than I was
yesterday. -Adlai Stevenson

As seen on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/wacvet

http://www.suzanne-eckhardt.com/
http://www.intergnat.com/malebashing/
http://www.intergnat.com/pussygames/

---MIKE---
September 28th 07, 11:28 PM
Here is a picture of my collection of discarded claw sheaths.

http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=1777604&a=13746150&p=73909198&Sequence=0&res=high


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44░ 15' N - Elevation 1580')

bobblespin[_2_]
September 28th 07, 11:53 PM
(---MIKE---) wrote in
:

> Here is a picture of my collection of discarded claw sheaths.
>
> http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=1777604&a=13746150&p=73909198&Se
> quence=0&res=high
>
>
> ---MIKE---
>>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
> >> (44░ 15' N - Elevation 1580')
>
>

Proof there's a collector for everything on this planet!

Bobble

cybercat
September 29th 07, 12:30 AM
"Mashauk" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I've never clipped my cat's claws either, I wouldn't dare for a
> start! He uses the old sofa (and the new sofa when I'm out), the tree
> outside and anything else he fancies, he, after all, a cat....
>
> I reckon if you can't handle everything in the house being
> systematically moulted on, hairballed up on, licked, scratched etc -
> don't live with a cat!
>

That's not helpful, Marcia, for those who don't want to live in a
nasty place and have all their things wrecked. It is easy to trim
nails and get things that cats prefer to scratch.

cybercat
September 29th 07, 12:32 AM
"---MIKE---" > wrote in message
...
Here is a picture of my collection of discarded claw sheaths.

http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=1777604&a=13746150&p=73909198&Sequence=0&res=high



Honestly, Mike, you are such a freak.

cybercat
September 29th 07, 12:32 AM
"bobblespin" > wrote in message
...
> (---MIKE---) wrote in
> :
>
>> Here is a picture of my collection of discarded claw sheaths.
>>
>> http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=1777604&a=13746150&p=73909198&Se
>> quence=0&res=high
>>
>>
>> ---MIKE---
>>>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> >> (44░ 15' N - Elevation 1580')
>>
>>
>
> Proof there's a collector for everything on this planet!
>
> Bobble

And you!

You are a diplomat.

lol

bookie
September 29th 07, 01:20 AM
On 28 Sep, 06:10, "-Lost" > wrote:
> After talking with my friend at the animal hospital for the
> thousandth time today, they started mentioning some other things that
> I should have done before officially calling Gabby "good to go."
>
> 1. Get her spayed - of course, this is already planned.
> 2. "ridder of critters" they said. Done.
> 3. Tons more general how to take care of a cat tips. Done.
> ..
> 19. Maybe not 19th, but the last thing they said was, "And make sure
> to get her declawed." Not so sure about...
>
> Forgive my ignorance on this one, and cat lovers please don't bounce
> something off of my head, but I thought as long as you were...
>
> 1. Not in fear of your life.
> 2. Your other animals got along fine with kitty.
> 3. Kitty uses her abundance of play things and scratching posts,
> walls, climbs, and other assorted cat approved claw-holders.
> 4. Kitty eventually stops chasing you down and attacking you from
> behind.
>
> ...that you did not have to get a cat declawed. My friend made it
> out like it is a must along with spaying an animal.
>
> What's the word cat people?
>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

DO NOT GET YOUR CAT DECLAWED, I REPEAT, DO NOT GET YOUR CAT DECLAWED
IT IS CRUEL AND UNNECESSARY AND BANNED IN JUST ABUOT EVERY CIVILISED
COUNTRY FOR A DAMN GOOD REASON IE IT AMOUNTS TO ANIMAL ABUSE

IF YOU CARE AT ALL ABOUT YOU CAT THEN YOU WILL LEAVE HER ALONE AND NOT
GET HER DECLAWED.

SIMPLE
IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH?

DO I HAVE TO WRITE IT ANY BIGGER?
HAVE YOU GOT THE GENERAL GIST OF WHAT I AM SAYING HERE OR AM I BEING
TOO SUBTLE?

SO I WILL REPEAT; DO NOT GET YOUR CAT DECLAWED

right that is all i am going to contribute to this one before i
totally lose my rag, i cannot believe that someone who works in an
animal hospital (and therefore is in the business of 'caring' for cats
i woudl ahve assumed) would ever suggest such an awful thing to be
done, to mutilate an innocent creature liek that.
just makes me sick to my stomach it really does.

where does this 'friend' work? give me the number and I will ring her
up and give her a piece of my mind

utterly outrageous
bookie

-Lost
September 29th 07, 01:37 AM
Response from (---MIKE---):

> Here is a picture of my collection of discarded claw sheaths.
>
> http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=1777604&a=13746150&p=7390919
> 8&Sequence=0&res=high
>
>
> ---MIKE---
>>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
> >> (44░ 15' N - Elevation 1580')

I was thinking the same thing as cybercat. You are a freak. I would
like to add weird and disturbing.

Don't ever change!! HAHAHA!

For the second time in this group I am glad to see I am not the only
one who enjoys a healthy although odd collection or gets a warm
feeling in my belly from some other odd thing (like kitty sheaths).

Currently I have a healthy collection of puppy teeth, puppy sheaths,
and 2 of my dragon's toes.

I have not had Gabby long enough to have her sheaths, but I will...
guarantee it.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 29th 07, 01:40 AM
Response from bobblespin >:

> "-Lost" > wrote in
> :
>
>> Do you have a recommendation for one? I was recently reading an
>> article about using a dremel on doggy toe nails, but I imagine
>> that Gabby's are too small to use a dremel on.
>
> We've used this kind for about 25 years. Maybe there are better
> ones out now, but this has always worked fine for us. I'm sure
> they're available anywhere pet supplies are sold.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2493fw

Hrmm... actually, the point of the dremel article was basically that
those type that "pinch" the nail between a sharpened edge and a flat
spot can hurt the animal because it pinches the "quick."

http://homepages.udayton.edu/~merensjp/doberdawn/index.html

You can immediately see where she talks about it under the heading of
"Why I Dremel Instead of Clip?"

I take it though since you have used it for over 25 years there
should not be anything wrong with that method. Maybe it is only for
LARGE dog nails?

Thanks again, Bobble.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

---MIKE---
September 29th 07, 02:14 AM
At least the picture of the sheaths is proof that I have not declawed my
cats. Would you like to see my whisker collection?


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44░ 15' N - Elevation 1580')

Meghan Noecker
September 29th 07, 03:00 AM
On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 06:59:24 -0500, "-Lost"
> wrote:

>Response from "cybercat" >:
>
>> "-Lost" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> After talking with my friend at the animal hospital for the
>>> thousandth time today, they started mentioning some other things
>>> that I should have done before officially calling Gabby "good to
>>> go."
>>>
>>
>> Your friend is no friend. Do not mutilate your cat.
>
>I figured that would be the general response. I wonder why it is
>recommended at all?


It makes money for the vets, and it is convenient for people who don't
want to train their cats or clip nails.

Apparently, that is enough to keep it going here. I wish people would
educate themselves about this before having it done, and I wish the
vets would stand up and refuse.

Meghan Noecker
September 29th 07, 03:10 AM
On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:06:56 -0500, "-Lost"
> wrote:

>Response from Meghan Noecker >:
>
>> Your friend is an idiot. Declawing actually takes off the last
>> section of the toe, is painful, and also removes their ability to
>> do instinctual behaviors. All you need is a godo cat tree, some
>> patience, and some clippers.
>
>Well, in their defense, I doubt they would recommend something that
>the doctor themselves did not recommend.
>
>I could be wrong though. And I am actually going to ask them today
>to be sure. If they are giving me misinformation or suggestions the
>doctor would not recommend then I will seriously reevaluate my
>sources.

Keep in mind that vets make a lot of money off this, so just because a
vet recommends this, it doesn't mean it is good for the cat. This is
something that is done soley because the owner doesn't want damage. It
is not done to help the cat's health. Most procedures at the vet are
to improve the health, so we accept a vet's advice. But this one is
not in the same category.

>
>Now, for the rest of your response... um... you have to clip kitty
>claws? Where in the world am I getting MY information?

Yes, if a cat does not wear them down fast enough, which is unlikely
in a house setting, they can curl around and go into the pad of the
food. This is rare with cats, more common with dogs. But even so,
letting them go uncliipped, means you will get scratched and poked
often. For example, the cat is on your lap and leaps off. Those hind
find will dig into your lap for a split second as they push off. If
the nails are sharp, you will know it. Also, many cats will play
nicely with their claws in, and you will only feel the soft feet as
they play. But if the nails are too sharp, you will get scratched
anyway, no fault on the cat's part. I also have a problem with Chase
who likes to knead my side while I sleep. If he has a single sharp
nail, I am suddenly experiencing accupuncture. It is not comfortable.

So, I trim every couple weeks, though often, I just look for the one 1
or 2 that are really sharp.

Get a great cat post or two that is sturdy, tall enough to stretch,
and multiple surfaces (carpet, sisal, etc) so that they have no reason
to try out your furniture.


>
>I was told by many not to worry about cutting their nails. That in
>fact a good scratching area (which I have provided three of) was
>sufficient enough to help them shed their claws.

There usually won't be a problem for them, but it would be a problem
for you.

>
>Assuming this is incorrect, I will explain "shed their claws" to
>avoid further confusion. I was told that cats claws were similar to
>dogs in that they eventually flake or grow like exoskeletons, whereby
>the newer nail underneath pushes the older one off. Or in the case
>of a scratching post, helps remove it.
>
>Is that correct?


Yesm you are correct, but as those outer layers come off, you get a
new set of sharp knives, and that is what is going to be poking and
scratching you by accident.

cybercat
September 29th 07, 03:12 AM
"---MIKE---" > wrote in message
...
At least the picture of the sheaths is proof that I have not declawed my
cats. Would you like to see my whisker collection?



I said you were a freak. I did not say that I don't like you. ;)

Yes, I would like to see your whisker collection.

Meghan Noecker
September 29th 07, 03:13 AM
On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:26:14 -0500, "-Lost"
> wrote:

>
>Definitely going to try the towel method. When Gabby first came to
>us we had to bathe her a time or two to rid her of paint, pests, and
>poo (literally). Anyway... after the bath she would literally fall
>slick out wrapped in a towel. So she definitely digs it!


A good way to start is find them when they are curled up in a nap,
leave them in that position, and just take a paw and do it. If you
start with only one paw per session, then it is over before they get
worked up about. Doing it while they are napping means they are
relaxed and not highly energetic at the time. Less likely to argue.

Once they are okay with that, do 2 paws or all 4 paws at a time. After
awhile, they will be used to it, no problem. My only problem child is
Jay Jay. Sometimes, he is perfect, and sometimes, he thinks he can
argue. So, I do him while he is curled up on the cat tree. Then I can
do all 4 paws with no argument.

cybercat
September 29th 07, 03:14 AM
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Response from (---MIKE---):
>
>> Here is a picture of my collection of discarded claw sheaths.
>>
>> http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=1777604&a=13746150&p=7390919
>> 8&Sequence=0&res=high
>>
>>
>> ---MIKE---
>>>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> >> (44░ 15' N - Elevation 1580')
>
> I was thinking the same thing as cybercat. You are a freak. I would
> like to add weird and disturbing.
>
> Don't ever change!! HAHAHA!


lol

true, dat.

Of all the freaks I love, I like cat freaks the best.

Meghan Noecker
September 29th 07, 03:23 AM
On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:13:21 -0500, "-Lost"
> wrote:

>
>Well, this is going to sound pretty dumb I am sure, but what should I
>say? I mean, call back and go, "Hey by the way, the lady who runs
>the refuge should stop declawing the cats! It is cruel and not only
>physically scars the kitty, but does psychological damage!"
>


I would send them a letter and explain that you did some research on
declawng and learned that it is horrible and unnecessary. And tell
them that you are very disappoint that a shelter/refuge would
recommend something so horrible.

Put in a few points about how it harms cats, and also tell them that
declawed cats often become agressive biters and have kitty litter
problems, two big reasons that many cats get dumped. If they are a
shelter trying to help cats, then recommending they be declawed only
sets up the cats for being dumped again. A lot of shelters have a
contract that adopters must sign, stating that they will not declaw
the cat. The shelter would rather take the cat back and place it in a
new home or help the new owner work out the problems.

Meghan Noecker
September 29th 07, 03:43 AM
On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 19:37:13 -0500, "-Lost"
>
>For the second time in this group I am glad to see I am not the only
>one who enjoys a healthy although odd collection or gets a warm
>feeling in my belly from some other odd thing (like kitty sheaths).
>
>Currently I have a healthy collection of puppy teeth, puppy sheaths,
>and 2 of my dragon's toes.


I've kept a couple sheaths that look complete, as well as the two
complete claws that Chase ripped out on his own. I also have one baby
tooth from Chase, and a bunch of whiskers from all the cats. I don't
know why, but I have always picked up the whiskers.

-Lost
September 29th 07, 03:46 AM
Response from "cybercat" >:

> "Mashauk" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> I've never clipped my cat's claws either, I wouldn't dare for a
>> start! He uses the old sofa (and the new sofa when I'm out), the
>> tree outside and anything else he fancies, he, after all, a
>> cat....
>>
>> I reckon if you can't handle everything in the house being
>> systematically moulted on, hairballed up on, licked, scratched
>> etc - don't live with a cat!
>>
>
> That's not helpful, Marcia, for those who don't want to live in a
> nasty place and have all their things wrecked. It is easy to trim
> nails and get things that cats prefer to scratch.

I appreciate all feedback, but that was a little bleak sounding.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 29th 07, 03:56 AM
Response from "cybercat" >:

> "---MIKE---" > wrote in message
> ...
> At least the picture of the sheaths is proof that I have not
> declawed my cats. Would you like to see my whisker collection?
>
> I said you were a freak. I did not say that I don't like you. ;)
>
> Yes, I would like to see your whisker collection.

I think I would too. How did you get whiskers? They do not fall out
do they?

And of course you are not supposed to snip them... right?

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 29th 07, 03:57 AM
Response from Meghan Noecker >:

> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 19:37:13 -0500, "-Lost"
>>
>>For the second time in this group I am glad to see I am not the
>>only one who enjoys a healthy although odd collection or gets a
>>warm feeling in my belly from some other odd thing (like kitty
>>sheaths).
>>
>>Currently I have a healthy collection of puppy teeth, puppy
>>sheaths, and 2 of my dragon's toes.
>
>
> I've kept a couple sheaths that look complete, as well as the two
> complete claws that Chase ripped out on his own. I also have one
> baby tooth from Chase, and a bunch of whiskers from all the cats.
> I don't know why, but I have always picked up the whiskers.

OK, the second whisker collection mention... they fall out?

I was ABSOLUTELY clueless about this. Well, I am on most things
kitty-related, but I am learning.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 29th 07, 04:07 AM
Response from Meghan Noecker >:

> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:26:14 -0500, "-Lost"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>Definitely going to try the towel method. When Gabby first came
>>to us we had to bathe her a time or two to rid her of paint,
>>pests, and poo (literally). Anyway... after the bath she would
>>literally fall slick out wrapped in a towel. So she definitely
>>digs it!
>
>
> A good way to start is find them when they are curled up in a nap,
> leave them in that position, and just take a paw and do it. If you
> start with only one paw per session, then it is over before they
> get worked up about. Doing it while they are napping means they
> are relaxed and not highly energetic at the time. Less likely to
> argue.

<snip>

I am definitely noting that energetic tip! The children just came to
me because one of the youngest ones got a claw hooked in their finger
(from playing only). So I picked up Gabby to talk to her and the
young'n to help calm the situation.

Gabby's little heart was literally beating at least 6 beats a second.

And to boot she was going ape in my hands. I could not hold her for
more than 10 seconds without her squirming madly and digging in with
her claws to gain traction for her escape.

SHEESH!

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

cybercat
September 29th 07, 04:25 AM
"-Lost" > wrote
> OK, the second whisker collection mention... they fall out?
>
> I was ABSOLUTELY clueless about this. Well, I am on most things
> kitty-related, but I am learning.

Welcome to our freak show. :)

-Lost
September 29th 07, 04:28 AM
Response from Meghan Noecker >:

> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:06:56 -0500, "-Lost"
> > wrote:
>
>>Response from Meghan Noecker >:
>>
>>> Your friend is an idiot. Declawing actually takes off the last
>>> section of the toe, is painful, and also removes their ability
>>> to do instinctual behaviors. All you need is a godo cat tree,
>>> some patience, and some clippers.
>>
>>Well, in their defense, I doubt they would recommend something
>>that the doctor themselves did not recommend.
>>
>>I could be wrong though. And I am actually going to ask them
>>today to be sure. If they are giving me misinformation or
>>suggestions the doctor would not recommend then I will seriously
>>reevaluate my sources.
>
> Keep in mind that vets make a lot of money off this, so just
> because a vet recommends this, it doesn't mean it is good for the
> cat. This is something that is done soley because the owner
> doesn't want damage. It is not done to help the cat's health. Most
> procedures at the vet are to improve the health, so we accept a
> vet's advice. But this one is not in the same category.

Message-ID: >

Make sure to read what I replied to (myself). The "friend" does
indeed recommend this for various blah blah reasons.

Sad.

<snip>

> So, I trim every couple weeks, though often, I just look for the
> one 1 or 2 that are really sharp.

Gotcha!

<snip>

>>Assuming this is incorrect, I will explain "shed their claws" to
>>avoid further confusion. I was told that cats claws were similar
>>to dogs in that they eventually flake or grow like exoskeletons,
>>whereby the newer nail underneath pushes the older one off. Or in
>>the case of a scratching post, helps remove it.
>>
>>Is that correct?
>
>
> Yesm you are correct, but as those outer layers come off, you get
> a new set of sharp knives, and that is what is going to be poking
> and scratching you by accident.

One more thing, I was recommended soft tips and found:

http://www.softclaws.com/

Do you happen to know offhand if they will still be able to hook onto
a post or other scratch with these on?

I am thinking that if I soften their tips that it would also prohibit
them from latching on since that is the purpose soft tips after
all...

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 29th 07, 04:34 AM
Response from "cybercat" >:

> "-Lost" > wrote
>> OK, the second whisker collection mention... they fall out?
>>
>> I was ABSOLUTELY clueless about this. Well, I am on most things
>> kitty-related, but I am learning.
>
> Welcome to our freak show. :)

Hehe. Thank you!

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 29th 07, 04:35 AM
Response from "-Lost" >:

> Response from Meghan Noecker >:
>
>> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:06:56 -0500, "-Lost"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Response from Meghan Noecker >:
>>>
>>>> Your friend is an idiot. Declawing actually takes off the last
>>>> section of the toe, is painful, and also removes their ability
>>>> to do instinctual behaviors. All you need is a godo cat tree,
>>>> some patience, and some clippers.
>>>
>>>Well, in their defense, I doubt they would recommend something
>>>that the doctor themselves did not recommend.
>>>
>>>I could be wrong though. And I am actually going to ask them
>>>today to be sure. If they are giving me misinformation or
>>>suggestions the doctor would not recommend then I will seriously
>>>reevaluate my sources.
>>
>> Keep in mind that vets make a lot of money off this, so just
>> because a vet recommends this, it doesn't mean it is good for the
>> cat. This is something that is done soley because the owner
>> doesn't want damage. It is not done to help the cat's health.
>> Most procedures at the vet are to improve the health, so we
>> accept a vet's advice. But this one is not in the same category.
>
> Message-ID: >
>
> Make sure to read what I replied to (myself). The "friend" does
> indeed recommend this for various blah blah reasons.
>
> Sad.
>
> <snip>
>
>> So, I trim every couple weeks, though often, I just look for the
>> one 1 or 2 that are really sharp.
>
> Gotcha!
>
> <snip>
>
>>>Assuming this is incorrect, I will explain "shed their claws" to
>>>avoid further confusion. I was told that cats claws were similar
>>>to dogs in that they eventually flake or grow like exoskeletons,
>>>whereby the newer nail underneath pushes the older one off. Or
>>>in the case of a scratching post, helps remove it.
>>>
>>>Is that correct?
>>
>>
>> Yesm you are correct, but as those outer layers come off, you get
>> a new set of sharp knives, and that is what is going to be poking
>> and scratching you by accident.
>
> One more thing, I was recommended soft tips and found:
>
> http://www.softclaws.com/
>
> Do you happen to know offhand if they will still be able to hook
> onto a post or other scratch with these on?
>
> I am thinking that if I soften their tips that it would also
> prohibit them from latching on since that is the purpose soft tips
> after all...

Crud, I forgot to mention that I did read:

http://www.softpaws.com/faqs.html#question7

But it does not seem possible to me. How can they fully dig in to a
post, but not be able to dig into my furniture for example?

Thanks.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 29th 07, 06:08 AM
Response from bookie >:

> where does this 'friend' work? give me the number and I will ring
> her up and give her a piece of my mind

You know, I honestly thought about discussing the details of it, but
decided it is probably not the best idea.

I am much better informed and know in the future that I cannot simply
trust what my local vet says without first studying everything on my
own and gathering SEVERAL opinions of fellow pet owners before acting.

Thanks for your feedback nonetheless, bookie.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

John Doe
September 29th 07, 06:36 AM
"-Lost" > wrote:

> After talking with my friend at the animal hospital for the
> thousandth time today, they started mentioning some other things
> that I should have done before officially calling Gabby "good to
> go." ... 19. Maybe not 19th, but the last thing they said was,
> "And make sure to get her declawed."

Who are "they"? Hopefully not your friend. Hopefully not staff at
the animal hospital. Sounds like it's time to find a different
animal hospital.

> Forgive my ignorance on this one, and cat lovers please don't
> bounce something off of my head,

It happens, maybe too often. I think of myself as someone who likes
to take good care of a cat just like I would any other animal I have
the responsibility of managing. What works for both of us is what
matters. If the host suffers, the guest suffers.

> ...that you did not have to get a cat declawed. My friend made it
> out like it is a must along with spaying an animal.

I cannot imagine having to cope with the problems a declawed cat
would cause in addition to the normal problems that can arise. You
don't have to be a cat lover or even a person experienced with
managing cats to understand why it's problematic.

Claws are the essense of a cat. Cats require them for:

.... self defense, inlcuding climbing to escape attack

.... exercise, almost their entire body

.... play, just like we use our fingers

.... hunting, if outside (hopefully not)

.... climbing for all sorts of reasons

And if you have multiple cats, you can use them to help balance
power, by clipping the aggressor's claws. If a pet manager cannot
handle claws, then cats are not for him (or her). You can clip a
cat's claws. Cats can still climb and stuff with clipped claws.

I believe cats are not good around children, because they can do
seriouse harm to a peron's eyes, unless maybe you have well
disciplined kids that can keep their eyes far away from the cat's
claws. But again, you either have the cat with claws, or don't have
one.

Good luck.

Meghan Noecker
September 29th 07, 07:27 AM
On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 22:35:29 -0500, "-Lost"
> wrote:


>
>Crud, I forgot to mention that I did read:
>
>http://www.softpaws.com/faqs.html#question7
>
>But it does not seem possible to me. How can they fully dig in to a
>post, but not be able to dig into my furniture for example?
>


I don't know as I have never used them. I have heard several people
say that they are very happy using them.

To me, it seems easier to just clip the nails as needed and make sure
they are taught not to go after the furniture.

I am 35 years old, and I have grown up with cats. My parents had cats
before I was born. In all those years, we only had one cat that took
to scratching furniture, and we just had to be extra vigilant with
her.

Kitty claws are just not a big deal if you get them used to clipping.

Meghan Noecker
September 29th 07, 07:29 AM
On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:57:55 -0500, "-Lost"
> wrote:

>
>OK, the second whisker collection mention... they fall out?
>

Oh, yah. You'll find them on the floor a lot. They really stand out
after vacuuming since the vacuum has trouble picking them up.
Sometimes, I find really long ones from Jay Jay. 6 inches!

Meghan Noecker
September 29th 07, 08:18 AM
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 05:36:07 GMT, John Doe >
wrote:


>
>I believe cats are not good around children, because they can do
>seriouse harm to a peron's eyes, unless maybe you have well
>disciplined kids that can keep their eyes far away from the cat's
>claws. But again, you either have the cat with claws, or don't have
>one.
>


I think cats are okay with kids as long as the kids are taught to
behave well, and they are monitored. I was given my own cat when I was
4 years old, and the only problem I can remember is once when she
growled at me. My mom told me that I was spending too much time with
her, and she needed a break. I was disappointed, but after an hour, we
were back to playing.

Years later, my nieces were visiting, and the one was rough housing.
We warned her that the cat would scratch, and she got scratched. We
told her that she needed to behave when playing with the kitties. We
did put the animals in another room since she could not be trusted to
play nicely with them. We were protecting the cats, not the child.

John Doe
September 29th 07, 08:45 AM
Meghan Noecker <friesian zoocrewphoto.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 05:36:07 GMT, John Doe <jdoe
> usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I believe cats are not good around children, because they can do
>>seriouse harm to a peron's eyes, unless maybe you have well
>>disciplined kids that can keep their eyes far away from the cat's
>>claws. But again, you either have the cat with claws, or don't
>>have one.
>>
>
>
> I think cats are okay with kids as long as the kids are taught to
> behave well, and they are monitored. I was given my own cat when I
> was 4 years old, and the only problem I can remember is once when
> she growled at me. My mom told me that I was spending too much
> time with her, and she needed a break. I was disappointed, but
> after an hour, we were back to playing.
>
> Years later, my nieces were visiting, and the one was rough
> housing. We warned her that the cat would scratch, and she got
> scratched. We told her that she needed to behave when playing with
> the kitties. We did put the animals in another room since she
> could not be trusted to play nicely with them. We were protecting
> the cats, not the child.

Animals don't live in a make-believe world. To say/think that a cat
is incapable of misbehaving, wrongdoing, or harming a child unless
the child is misbehaving is perverse/na´ve. Cats do some very bad
things. They don't understand the consequences, because for example
they don't understand the difference between a human child and
another cat, and it certainly can happen without the child being at
fault. Besides, who's at fault doesn't really matter to a (normal)
parent that has its kid's eyeball scratched.









>
>
>
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> NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 02:18:46 -0500
> From: Meghan Noecker <friesian zoocrewphoto.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> Subject: Re: I need your sagely advice and wisdom again, people. Declaw or not declaw, that is my question.
> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 00:18:33 -0700
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---MIKE---
September 29th 07, 12:17 PM
http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=1777604&a=13746150&p=71611133&Sequence=0&res=high


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44░ 15' N - Elevation 1580')

---MIKE---
September 29th 07, 12:24 PM
-Lost asked:

>>Yes, I would like to see your whisker
>> collection.

>I think I would too. How did you get
> whiskers? They do not fall out do they?

>And of course you are not supposed to
> snip them... right?

I just posted a picture. They do fall out. I wouldn't think of
snipping them. If you keep looking you will find them as well as the
claw sheaths.


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44░ 15' N - Elevation 1580')

---MIKE---
September 29th 07, 12:36 PM
I am not in any way defending declawing but there is another side to the
results. I have some good friends who have two declawed cats. I don't
know whether they received the cats that way or not (their daughter in
law is a vet). The cats don't appear to have any problems. They use
their litter boxes, don't bite and are friendly and sociable. They walk
normally and one of them likes to jump from high places. I don't
discuss this with my friends.


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44░ 15' N - Elevation 1580')

John Doe
September 29th 07, 12:53 PM
Meghan Noecker <friesian zoocrewphoto.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:06:56 -0500, "-Lost" <maventheextrawords
> techie.com> wrote:

>>Now, for the rest of your response... um... you have to clip kitty
>>claws?

Yes if they're too sharp for you and yours. It's usually much more
difficult the first time. Funny though, I took in a stray tomcat and
the first time couldn't have been easier unless he had gotten the
clippers for me. He was very thin but he must've been spoiled by his
prior owner, he's a great house cat. The second clipping was less
acceptable, it's like he figured out what I was doing. I do expect
it to get easier from this point on though.

> Yes, if a cat does not wear them down fast enough, which is
> unlikely in a house setting, they can curl around and go into the
> pad of the food. This is rare with cats,

In an inactive environment, more likely a cat will periodically shed
its claws. She grabs the the claw between her teeth and prys the
outer shell loose. If the room is quiet enough, you can hear the
claw parts creaking like wood as they are being pulled apart. Or
maybe she's just a nailbiter (kidding).














>
>
>
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> NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:10:52 -0500
> From: Meghan Noecker <friesian zoocrewphoto.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> Subject: Re: I need your sagely advice and wisdom again, people. Declaw or not declaw, that is my question.
> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 19:10:40 -0700
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Sheelagh >o
September 29th 07, 03:35 PM
On 29 Sep, 02:14, (---MIKE---) wrote:
> At least the picture of the sheaths is proof that I have not declawed my
> cats. Would you like to see my whisker collection?
>
> ---MIKE--->>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>
> >> (44░ 15' N - Elevation 1580')

LOl, LoL LOL
I thought I was the only person in the world that collected whiskers,
LMAO?!!!
Now I know different. My longest one so fat is 5.6 inches long, & it
belonged to Biffy the Birman. When Lilly arrived here, she was totally
whisker-less. Her siblings used to chew them off! Now she has nice fat
long ones around 4.6 inches long(average!!). Nice to meet a fellow
"weirdo", if that's what we are?!!


Sheelagh>"o"<

Sheelagh >o
September 29th 07, 03:46 PM
On 28 Sep, 19:36, "-Lost" > wrote:
> Response from "Sheelagh >o<" >:
>
> > De-clawing a cat is like chopping each digit off @ the first
> > knuckle. Whoever told you it is a must, is either ignorant, or
> > cruel, yet handing out advice on something they are not fully
> > informed about. We have endless questions about declawing, & it is
> > always a passionate subject!
>
> I see that! CatNipped gave me a wonderfully informative article on
> it that brought tears to my eyes. I expect it will do the same when
> I show the rest of the family when they get home.
>
> > I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but if you are
> > worride about clawing,
>
> Actually, was not REALLY worried about, only slightly. But I do not
> consider her destructive in the least.
>
> I was however under the false impression that it was healthier (for
> lack of better word) for the kitty.
>
> > there are two products that will help your cat. 1: Lots of
> > scratching posts to stretch out their full body length,
>
> Done! I have provided her a scratching post, a portable scratching
> wall, and also a scratch/climb.
>
> > 2: & also there is a new product on the market, that evades me
> > right now (It will come to me @ 4 am no doubt!!), but it is like a
> > rubber substance that you can paint on all claws, that will stop
> > the effect of side swiped by your cat who might be waiting to play
> > pounce with you. You just paint it on like nail polish. I hear it
> > is very effective. Perhaps someone else could provide a link to
> > the product I am referring to if they can remember the name of it?
> > I hope this helps,
>
> Is it this?
>
> http://www.softclaws.com/
>
> This looks promising.
>
> Thanks for the help, Sheelagh >"o"<.
>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

You are most welcome, & yes, you have the product spot on. I couldn't
think of the product name, but you seem to have found it easily
enough. Well done :o)
Sheelagh >"o"<

cybercat
September 29th 07, 08:22 PM
"---MIKE---" > wrote in message
...
http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=1777604&a=13746150&p=71611133&Sequence=0&res=high


Very impressive! :)

dabanana1 via CatKB.com
September 29th 07, 08:51 PM
I used SoftClaws and was very disappointed. Maybe I messed up putting them on,
(although I did exactly as it said). But about 6 months ago I put them on
Lucky and he was playing and got his paw painfully stuck under the
refrigerator and stove( Two separate occasions). Turns out that the softclaw
was a little elevated over the nail so there was kind of a lip on it and it
caused his paw to be stuck. The poor thing was in so much pain. I actually
called the maintenance man at my apartment complex to come over and help me
gently get him free. Still to this day he has a hard time with anyone getting
near his paw. Mind you, I never used the soft claws again, not worth it if he
has the risk of getting caught on stuff. What would have happened if I wasn't
home that day? I just thank god he is ok. Anyways, I just wanted to warn you
all, before the same thing happened to your beloved cats.

-Lost wrote:
>Response from Meghan Noecker >:
>
>>>Response from Meghan Noecker >:
>>>
>[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>> procedures at the vet are to improve the health, so we accept a
>> vet's advice. But this one is not in the same category.
>
>Message-ID: >
>
>Make sure to read what I replied to (myself). The "friend" does
>indeed recommend this for various blah blah reasons.
>
>Sad.
>
><snip>
>
>> So, I trim every couple weeks, though often, I just look for the
>> one 1 or 2 that are really sharp.
>
>Gotcha!
>
><snip>
>
>>>Assuming this is incorrect, I will explain "shed their claws" to
>>>avoid further confusion. I was told that cats claws were similar
>[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>> a new set of sharp knives, and that is what is going to be poking
>> and scratching you by accident.
>
>One more thing, I was recommended soft tips and found:
>
>http://www.softclaws.com/
>
>Do you happen to know offhand if they will still be able to hook onto
>a post or other scratch with these on?
>
>I am thinking that if I soften their tips that it would also prohibit
>them from latching on since that is the purpose soft tips after
>all...
>

--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200709/1

jmc
September 29th 07, 10:47 PM
Suddenly, without warning, -Lost exclaimed (9/28/2007 2:40 PM):
> After talking with my friend at the animal hospital for the
> thousandth time today, they started mentioning some other things that
> I should have done before officially calling Gabby "good to go."
>

> 19. Maybe not 19th, but the last thing they said was, "And make sure
> to get her declawed." Not so sure about...
>
> Forgive my ignorance on this one, and cat lovers please don't bounce
> something off of my head, but I thought as long as you were...
>
> 1. Not in fear of your life.
> 2. Your other animals got along fine with kitty.
> 3. Kitty uses her abundance of play things and scratching posts,
> walls, climbs, and other assorted cat approved claw-holders.
> 4. Kitty eventually stops chasing you down and attacking you from
> behind.
>
> ...that you did not have to get a cat declawed. My friend made it
> out like it is a must along with spaying an animal.
>
> What's the word cat people?
>

No, No, No, No and NO! Not unless it's a choice between her claws and
her life!

I've been away and as expected you've lots of responses, but wanted to
add my voice to the mix. There's some people out there who think you
should declaw as a matter of course - I quite hope they simply don't
understand what declawing entails (I'm sure others have provided the
gory details).

I had my first cat declawed (fronts only, back in 1987) - I thought it
was a choice between her claws and my apartment, and didn't understand
what was involved. Never again. Now I just train my cats as to when
use of claws is appropriate, and when it is not.

Please, DON'T get Gabby declawed just because your friend says you must.
And educate your friend as to what the procedure does to a cat, both
physically and mentally.

jmc

mlbriggs
September 29th 07, 11:54 PM
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 07:17:47 -0400, ---MIKE--- wrote:

> http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=1777604&a=13746150&p=71611133&Sequence=0&res=high
>
>
> ---MIKE---
>> [quoted text muted]
> >> (44░ 15' N - Elevation 1580')


That is the "cat's meow"! MLB

CatNipped
September 30th 07, 03:57 AM
"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
> "-Lost" > wrote:
>
>> After talking with my friend at the animal hospital for the
>> thousandth time today, they started mentioning some other things
>> that I should have done before officially calling Gabby "good to
>> go." ... 19. Maybe not 19th, but the last thing they said was,
>> "And make sure to get her declawed."
>
> Who are "they"? Hopefully not your friend. Hopefully not staff at
> the animal hospital. Sounds like it's time to find a different
> animal hospital.
>
>> Forgive my ignorance on this one, and cat lovers please don't
>> bounce something off of my head,
>
> It happens, maybe too often. I think of myself as someone who likes
> to take good care of a cat just like I would any other animal I have
> the responsibility of managing. What works for both of us is what
> matters. If the host suffers, the guest suffers.
>
>> ...that you did not have to get a cat declawed. My friend made it
>> out like it is a must along with spaying an animal.
>
> I cannot imagine having to cope with the problems a declawed cat
> would cause in addition to the normal problems that can arise. You
> don't have to be a cat lover or even a person experienced with
> managing cats to understand why it's problematic.
>
> Claws are the essense of a cat. Cats require them for:
>
> ... self defense, inlcuding climbing to escape attack
>
> ... exercise, almost their entire body
>
> ... play, just like we use our fingers
>
> ... hunting, if outside (hopefully not)
>
> ... climbing for all sorts of reasons
>
> And if you have multiple cats, you can use them to help balance
> power, by clipping the aggressor's claws. If a pet manager cannot
> handle claws, then cats are not for him (or her). You can clip a
> cat's claws. Cats can still climb and stuff with clipped claws.

That's the truth! I'd just clipped everybody's claws this morning, then I
let Archer out of the kennel so he could get some exercise. I have to be
careful because he runs around pretty good even with the cast on his leg -
faster than I can catch him - and before I could get there, he was halfway
up the cat tree just by using his (clipped) front claws and pulling himself
up the sisal wrapped post!

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> I believe cats are not good around children, because they can do
> seriouse harm to a peron's eyes, unless maybe you have well
> disciplined kids that can keep their eyes far away from the cat's
> claws. But again, you either have the cat with claws, or don't have
> one.
>
> Good luck.
>
>
>
>

T
September 30th 07, 04:16 AM
In article >,
says...
> Response from "cybercat" >:
>
> > "-Lost" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> After talking with my friend at the animal hospital for the
> >> thousandth time today, they started mentioning some other things
> >> that I should have done before officially calling Gabby "good to
> >> go."
> >>
> >
> > Your friend is no friend. Do not mutilate your cat.
>
> I figured that would be the general response. I wonder why it is
> recommended at all?
>
> The only animal refuge center we have recommended it as well, but I
> would imagine it was to minimize the damage they might do to each
> other at the center.
>
>

My former vet actually recommended declawing to save furniture. I know
how to trim claws and keep scratching posts and scratch pads around.

T
September 30th 07, 04:17 AM
In article >, says...
>
> "-Lost" > wrote
> >>
> >> Your friend is no friend. Do not mutilate your cat.
> >
> > I figured that would be the general response. I wonder why it is
> > recommended at all?
>
> It is recommended for human convenience because many people
> cannot be bothered to provide things cats like to scratch better
> than furniture and rugs, and so that vets can make money. Ignorance
> or pure cruelty can be the only reasons anyone would recommend it.
>
> I was a kid (maybe 23) when I took my first cat in to be
> spayed, and they said, "Do you want her declawed too?"
> She was a hellion, and I was thinking, just the claws themselves
> taken out--I never thought surgical hacking off of the bones in
> her toes. I said yes. They ruined her beautiful little feet, she
> became anxious, stopped covering her poo, and became a
> biter as well. It is horrible, one of the worst things I have been
> responsible for in my life. I have two cats now, and provide
> scratchers and trim claws--just the tips--monthly. That is all
> you need to do.
>
> Did you understand the procedure when you asked this
> question?
>
> And will you voice your opinion about it to the shelters?
>
>
>

From what I've been told declawing a cat is similar to taking off the
tips of a humans fingers to the first knuckle. Ouch!

Meghan Noecker
September 30th 07, 08:34 AM
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 07:45:28 GMT, John Doe >
wrote:


>
>Animals don't live in a make-believe world. To say/think that a cat
>is incapable of misbehaving, wrongdoing, or harming a child unless
>the child is misbehaving is perverse/na´ve. Cats do some very bad
>things. They don't understand the consequences, because for example
>they don't understand the difference between a human child and
>another cat, and it certainly can happen without the child being at
>fault. Besides, who's at fault doesn't really matter to a (normal)
>parent that has its kid's eyeball scratched.
>


I never said the cat couldn't do anything bad. But as an adult, I
should know the cat and the child. If they should not be together,
fine. I did say that we put away the animals when the niece comes. But
that doesn't mean that cats should never be around kids.

There are thousands of kids growing up with cats and dogs, and getting
scratched in the eye is pretty rare.

And most attacks toward a child are the result of a child rough
housing with the animal, pulling on its tal, poking, it etc. The
children are usally rougher on the animals than the animals are on the
kids.

-Lost
September 30th 07, 09:13 AM
Response from T >:

> In article >,
> says...
>> Response from "cybercat" >:
>>
>> > "-Lost" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> After talking with my friend at the animal hospital for the
>> >> thousandth time today, they started mentioning some other
>> >> things that I should have done before officially calling Gabby
>> >> "good to go."
>> >>
>> >
>> > Your friend is no friend. Do not mutilate your cat.
>>
>> I figured that would be the general response. I wonder why it is
>> recommended at all?
>>
>> The only animal refuge center we have recommended it as well, but
>> I would imagine it was to minimize the damage they might do to
>> each other at the center.
>>
>>
>
> My former vet actually recommended declawing to save furniture. I
> know how to trim claws and keep scratching posts and scratch pads
> around.

Said the same thing to me... "...some people have leather furniture
or other nice things they don't want ruined."

Bleh.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 30th 07, 09:14 AM
Response from (---MIKE---):

> -Lost asked:
>
>>>Yes, I would like to see your whisker
>>> collection.
>
>>I think I would too. How did you get
>> whiskers? They do not fall out do they?
>
>>And of course you are not supposed to
>> snip them... right?
>
> I just posted a picture. They do fall out. I wouldn't think of
> snipping them. If you keep looking you will find them as well as
> the claw sheaths.

Neato. I'll definitely keep an eye out.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 30th 07, 09:15 AM
Response from "Sheelagh >o<" >:

> On 29 Sep, 02:14, (---MIKE---) wrote:
>> At least the picture of the sheaths is proof that I have not
>> declawed my cats. Would you like to see my whisker collection?
>>
>> ---MIKE--->>In the White Mountains of New
>> Hampshire
>>
>> >> (44░ 15' N - Elevation 1580')
>
> LOl, LoL LOL
> I thought I was the only person in the world that collected
> whiskers, LMAO?!!!
> Now I know different. My longest one so fat is 5.6 inches long, &
> it belonged to Biffy the Birman. When Lilly arrived here, she was
> totally whisker-less. Her siblings used to chew them off! Now she
> has nice fat long ones around 4.6 inches long(average!!). Nice to
> meet a fellow "weirdo", if that's what we are?!!

Meghan has you beat kiddo.

Message-ID: >

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 30th 07, 09:17 AM
Response from (---MIKE---):

> http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=1777604&a=13746150&p=7161113
> 3&Sequence=0&res=high

Aw, man. Too cool!

*sniffles* I want some kitty whiskers.

*yells at Gabby*

"Hurry up with the whiskers, lady!"

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 30th 07, 09:22 AM
Response from "dabanana1 via CatKB.com" <[email protected]>:

> I used SoftClaws and was very disappointed. Maybe I messed up
> putting them on, (although I did exactly as it said). But about 6
> months ago I put them on Lucky and he was playing and got his paw
> painfully stuck under the refrigerator and stove( Two separate
> occasions). Turns out that the softclaw was a little elevated over
> the nail so there was kind of a lip on it and it caused his paw
> to be stuck. The poor thing was in so much pain. I actually called
> the maintenance man at my apartment complex to come over and help
> me gently get him free. Still to this day he has a hard time with
> anyone getting near his paw. Mind you, I never used the soft claws
> again, not worth it if he has the risk of getting caught on stuff.
> What would have happened if I wasn't home that day? I just thank
> god he is ok. Anyways, I just wanted to warn you all, before the
> same thing happened to your beloved cats.

Thank you for the tip, dabanana1.

I am not totally convinced of their usefulness either. I am not
understanding how it prevents them from hooking into furniture but
supposedly they can still scratch a post.

I will definitely do a test run if anything. For now I am going to
stick to clipping them like so many have suggested.

Oh, and when you asked what would have happened had you not been
home? As soon as I read "stuck" I thought of a kitty pulling so
hard, partly because of freaking out, that his claw ripped from his
toe. I am definitely glad you did not have to encounter that, Lucky
too.

Thanks again!

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 30th 07, 09:25 AM
Response from John Doe >:

> Meghan Noecker <friesian zoocrewphoto.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:06:56 -0500, "-Lost" <maventheextrawords
>> techie.com> wrote:
>
>>>Now, for the rest of your response... um... you have to clip
>>>kitty claws?
>
> Yes if they're too sharp for you and yours. It's usually much more
> difficult the first time. Funny though, I took in a stray tomcat
> and the first time couldn't have been easier unless he had gotten
> the clippers for me. He was very thin but he must've been spoiled
> by his prior owner, he's a great house cat. The second clipping
> was less acceptable, it's like he figured out what I was doing. I
> do expect it to get easier from this point on though.
>
>> Yes, if a cat does not wear them down fast enough, which is
>> unlikely in a house setting, they can curl around and go into the
>> pad of the food. This is rare with cats,
>
> In an inactive environment, more likely a cat will periodically
> shed its claws. She grabs the the claw between her teeth and prys
> the outer shell loose. If the room is quiet enough, you can hear
> the claw parts creaking like wood as they are being pulled apart.
> Or maybe she's just a nailbiter (kidding).

Haha, that sounds cool. Then again I am a mite off in the noggin.

She is an indoor kitty and DEFINITELY active so hopefully she will
help me out for the most part with the nails. I will still keep an
active eye out for the need to clip.

Thanks for the information, John Doe.

P.S. I see you use Xnews (good choice). You know there is a MUCH
newer version available right?

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 30th 07, 09:27 AM
Response from "Sheelagh >o<" >:

>> Is it this?
>>
>> http://www.softclaws.com/
>>
>> This looks promising.
>>
>> Thanks for the help, Sheelagh >"o"<.
>>
>
> You are most welcome, & yes, you have the product spot on. I
> couldn't think of the product name, but you seem to have found it
> easily enough. Well done :o)

Heh. Thank you! I forgot what exactly I searched for, something like
"paint cat nails" and it came up with that.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 30th 07, 09:57 AM
Response from (---MIKE---):

> I am not in any way defending declawing but there is another side
> to the results. I have some good friends who have two declawed
> cats. I don't know whether they received the cats that way or not
> (their daughter in law is a vet). The cats don't appear to have
> any problems. They use their litter boxes, don't bite and are
> friendly and sociable. They walk normally and one of them likes
> to jump from high places. I don't discuss this with my friends.

In addition to that, I have known some declawed kitties too and there
was never any problem with them as far as I know.

Those kitties were rambunctious and crazy as hell. I remember them
from when I was a kid. They used to terrorize the chickens. They
were mostly outside cats on a big farm in an area where it was
overrun by any cats except for those the farmer owned. They were a
fearsome bunch from what I remembered. And if I remember correctly
they were all declawed so they would not cut a cow's udder when they
decided to have a sip.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 30th 07, 09:59 AM
Response from John Doe >:

> "-Lost" > wrote:
>
>> After talking with my friend at the animal hospital for the
>> thousandth time today, they started mentioning some other things
>> that I should have done before officially calling Gabby "good to
>> go." ... 19. Maybe not 19th, but the last thing they said was,
>> "And make sure to get her declawed."
>
> Who are "they"? Hopefully not your friend. Hopefully not staff at
> the animal hospital. Sounds like it's time to find a different
> animal hospital.
>
>> Forgive my ignorance on this one, and cat lovers please don't
>> bounce something off of my head,
>
> It happens, maybe too often. I think of myself as someone who
> likes to take good care of a cat just like I would any other
> animal I have the responsibility of managing. What works for both
> of us is what matters. If the host suffers, the guest suffers.
>
>> ...that you did not have to get a cat declawed. My friend made
>> it out like it is a must along with spaying an animal.
>
> I cannot imagine having to cope with the problems a declawed cat
> would cause in addition to the normal problems that can arise. You
> don't have to be a cat lover or even a person experienced with
> managing cats to understand why it's problematic.
>
> Claws are the essense of a cat. Cats require them for:
>
> ... self defense, inlcuding climbing to escape attack
>
> ... exercise, almost their entire body
>
> ... play, just like we use our fingers
>
> ... hunting, if outside (hopefully not)
>
> ... climbing for all sorts of reasons
>
> And if you have multiple cats, you can use them to help balance
> power, by clipping the aggressor's claws. If a pet manager cannot
> handle claws, then cats are not for him (or her). You can clip a
> cat's claws. Cats can still climb and stuff with clipped claws.
>
> I believe cats are not good around children, because they can do
> seriouse harm to a peron's eyes, unless maybe you have well
> disciplined kids that can keep their eyes far away from the cat's
> claws. But again, you either have the cat with claws, or don't
> have one.

Thanks for all of this information. Those tips sound great.
Definitely going to keep that in mind for future kitties.

Although Gabby is QUITE the handful. I think she wants to make sure
she is in a one-kitty household.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 30th 07, 10:03 AM
Response from "CatNipped" >:

> That's the truth! I'd just clipped everybody's claws this
> morning, then I let Archer out of the kennel so he could get some
> exercise. I have to be careful because he runs around pretty good
> even with the cast on his leg - faster than I can catch him - and
> before I could get there, he was halfway up the cat tree just by
> using his (clipped) front claws and pulling himself up the sisal
> wrapped post!

CatNipped, If you do not mind me asking, how did Archer bust his leg?

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
September 30th 07, 10:10 AM
Response from jmc >:

> Suddenly, without warning, -Lost exclaimed (9/28/2007 2:40 PM):
>> After talking with my friend at the animal hospital for the
>> thousandth time today, they started mentioning some other things
>> that I should have done before officially calling Gabby "good to
>> go."
>>
>
>> 19. Maybe not 19th, but the last thing they said was, "And make
>> sure to get her declawed." Not so sure about...
>>
>> Forgive my ignorance on this one, and cat lovers please don't
>> bounce something off of my head, but I thought as long as you
>> were...
>>
>> 1. Not in fear of your life.
>> 2. Your other animals got along fine with kitty.
>> 3. Kitty uses her abundance of play things and scratching posts,
>> walls, climbs, and other assorted cat approved claw-holders.
>> 4. Kitty eventually stops chasing you down and attacking you
>> from behind.
>>
>> ...that you did not have to get a cat declawed. My friend made
>> it out like it is a must along with spaying an animal.
>>
>> What's the word cat people?
>>
>
> No, No, No, No and NO! Not unless it's a choice between her claws
> and her life!
>
> I've been away and as expected you've lots of responses, but
> wanted to add my voice to the mix. There's some people out there
> who think you should declaw as a matter of course - I quite hope
> they simply don't understand what declawing entails (I'm sure
> others have provided the gory details).

Oh yes, they most definitely have.

> I had my first cat declawed (fronts only, back in 1987) - I
> thought it was a choice between her claws and my apartment, and
> didn't understand what was involved. Never again. Now I just
> train my cats as to when use of claws is appropriate, and when it
> is not.

May I ask what exactly made you say, "Never again."? I mean, aside
from knowing what is involved. Did kitty develop problems?

> Please, DON'T get Gabby declawed just because your friend says you
> must.
> And educate your friend as to what the procedure does to a cat,
> both
> physically and mentally.

Your wish is my command! Seriously. I discussed with the family the
entire article from Max's House and showed them what part exactly
gets removed from kitty and they all voted to keep Gabby's claws. It
is a good thing too because I had already decided the same thing and
was prepared to fight about it. Hahaha!

You can see the conversation I had with the "friend" here:

Message-ID: >

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

jmc
September 30th 07, 11:22 AM
Suddenly, without warning, -Lost exclaimed (9/30/2007 6:40 PM):
> Response from jmc >:
>
>> I had my first cat declawed (fronts only, back in 1987) - I
>> thought it was a choice between her claws and my apartment, and
>> didn't understand what was involved. Never again. Now I just
>> train my cats as to when use of claws is appropriate, and when it
>> is not.
>
> May I ask what exactly made you say, "Never again."? I mean, aside
> from knowing what is involved. Did kitty develop problems?
>

Not as a direct result of the declaw, but I was horrified when I later
learned what I'd allowed to have done to my beautiful kitten (Mouse was
a Maine Coon). Fortunately it was only fronts, but still (we only took
off your fingers to the first knuckle - but we didn't do your toes.
That's good, right?).

Also, I know now there was no need. If I'd spent a little more time
trying to train Mouse properly, she might have kept her toes.

jmc

-Lost
September 30th 07, 11:30 AM
Response from jmc >:

> Suddenly, without warning, -Lost exclaimed (9/30/2007 6:40 PM):
>> Response from jmc >:
>>
>>> I had my first cat declawed (fronts only, back in 1987) - I
>>> thought it was a choice between her claws and my apartment, and
>>> didn't understand what was involved. Never again. Now I just
>>> train my cats as to when use of claws is appropriate, and when
>>> it is not.
>>
>> May I ask what exactly made you say, "Never again."? I mean,
>> aside from knowing what is involved. Did kitty develop problems?
>>
>
> Not as a direct result of the declaw, but I was horrified when I
> later learned what I'd allowed to have done to my beautiful kitten
> (Mouse was a Maine Coon). Fortunately it was only fronts, but
> still (we only took off your fingers to the first knuckle - but we
> didn't do your toes. That's good, right?).
>
> Also, I know now there was no need. If I'd spent a little more
> time trying to train Mouse properly, she might have kept her toes.

Ah, OK. Well, I am definitely glad I have the wisdom and experience
of this group to rely on when I get stuck.

Thanks for the information, jmc.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

Lesley
September 30th 07, 03:37 PM
On 28 Sep, 09:35, "Sheelagh >o<" >
wrote:
It is almost unheard of in the UK, & rightly so
> too.
>

Unless for veterinary reasons e.g. removal of a tumour on the terminal
phalange or persistent infection caused by a deformed nail growing
into the foot, it is actually illegal in the UK. Even when it has to
be done only the affected toe can be done

I never heard of declawing until I started to come onto newsgroups, in
the UK it is never mentioned as an option

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs

CatNipped
September 30th 07, 05:07 PM
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Response from "CatNipped" >:
>
>> That's the truth! I'd just clipped everybody's claws this
>> morning, then I let Archer out of the kennel so he could get some
>> exercise. I have to be careful because he runs around pretty good
>> even with the cast on his leg - faster than I can catch him - and
>> before I could get there, he was halfway up the cat tree just by
>> using his (clipped) front claws and pulling himself up the sisal
>> wrapped post!
>
> CatNipped, If you do not mind me asking, how did Archer bust his leg?

I have an attached garage and I put cat doors in the doors leading into the
house and my office (which is off the garage). The litter boxes are in the
garage. I didn't know Archer was using the litter box when I walked into
the garage and hit the button to open the garage door. The noise it made
frightened Archer so bad he *TORE* out of the garage in a total panic. He
hit his left rear leg on the door frame, but was so panicked he continued
halfway up the stairs. He collapsed when he got to the landing. It was
almost time for my vet to close, but we got there before they locked the
door. However the vet was already in an emergency surgery so they sent us
to the ER vet. We spent most of the evening (and $300) in the ER. They
gave Archer a shot of morphine, took some x-rays, put him in a cast, and
sent him home with pain pills and muscle relaxers. We spent another $100 on
a large dog kennel at PetsMart because the vet said he shouldn't jump up and
down from furniture or window sills but there isnt any room in the how with
nothing for him to jump on (even the bathrooms). He's doing much better
now, but is always crying to be let out of the kennel. I let him out as
much as possible, but it has to be when I can spend 100% of my time just
watching him (kittens are *FAST*). He and his bro-fur can get in trouble at
the drop of a hat (5 month old kittens are like teen-agers but with the
minds of toddlers).

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

cybercat
September 30th 07, 05:21 PM
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Response from (---MIKE---):
>
>> I am not in any way defending declawing but there is another side
>> to the results. I have some good friends who have two declawed
>> cats. I don't know whether they received the cats that way or not
>> (their daughter in law is a vet). The cats don't appear to have
>> any problems. They use their litter boxes, don't bite and are
>> friendly and sociable. They walk normally and one of them likes
>> to jump from high places. I don't discuss this with my friends.
>
> In addition to that, I have known some declawed kitties too and there
> was never any problem with them as far as I know.
>
> Those kitties were rambunctious and crazy as hell. I remember them
> from when I was a kid. They used to terrorize the chickens. They
> were mostly outside cats on a big farm in an area where it was
> overrun by any cats except for those the farmer owned. They were a
> fearsome bunch from what I remembered. And if I remember correctly
> they were all declawed so they would not cut a cow's udder when they
> decided to have a sip.

People. Anyone else's HORSE CRAP alarms going off??? No offense
meant, "Lost" but I cannot see a farmer doing this, and I just cannot see
a CAT trying to suckle a cow. There are far too many barn cats worldwide
for this to be a common occurance with cats and dairy cows.

Grace
October 1st 07, 01:53 AM
Raised with farm animals, and yes, some cats will try to get milk from
a cow---not suckling, just nosing around and licking. The worry was,
that the cats would scratch the udder and possibly cause an infection,
so the barn cats were always outside just prior to, and during milking
times.

Grace

cybercat
October 1st 07, 02:09 AM
"Grace" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Raised with farm animals, and yes, some cats will try to get milk from
> a cow---not suckling, just nosing around and licking. The worry was,
> that the cats would scratch the udder and possibly cause an infection,
> so the barn cats were always outside just prior to, and during milking
> times.
>

And was it your experience that the farmers DECLAWED these
barn cats, Grace?

Remember, you are under oath.

>:

Grace
October 1st 07, 02:16 AM
Oh Cybercat, NO!!!! No declawing---just keeping them out of the
milking barn prior to and during milking. Declawing...NEVER! Sorry
for the misunderstanding.

Grace

cybercat
October 1st 07, 02:20 AM
"Grace" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Oh Cybercat, NO!!!! No declawing---just keeping them out of the
> milking barn prior to and during milking. Declawing...NEVER! Sorry
> for the misunderstanding.
>

So ... it is reasonable to imagine cats trying to get milk from dairy cows.
Hmm. Thanks, I had no idea.

Still, I cannot see farmers paying to declaw barn cats.

Grace
October 1st 07, 02:32 AM
Me either---re: farmers declawing barn cats. Whenever I was little,
our big barn boys were kept not only as pets, but because of their
wonderful mousing abilities. Though actually, our two housecat's---
both females, were much better hunters.

Grace

-Lost
October 1st 07, 05:50 AM
Response from "cybercat" >:

> "-Lost" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Response from (---MIKE---):
>>
>>> I am not in any way defending declawing but there is another
>>> side to the results. I have some good friends who have two
>>> declawed cats. I don't know whether they received the cats that
>>> way or not (their daughter in law is a vet). The cats don't
>>> appear to have any problems. They use their litter boxes, don't
>>> bite and are friendly and sociable. They walk normally and one
>>> of them likes to jump from high places. I don't discuss this
>>> with my friends.
>>
>> In addition to that, I have known some declawed kitties too and
>> there was never any problem with them as far as I know.
>>
>> Those kitties were rambunctious and crazy as hell. I remember
>> them from when I was a kid. They used to terrorize the chickens.
>> They were mostly outside cats on a big farm in an area where it
>> was overrun by any cats except for those the farmer owned. They
>> were a fearsome bunch from what I remembered. And if I remember
>> correctly they were all declawed so they would not cut a cow's
>> udder when they decided to have a sip.
>
> People. Anyone else's HORSE CRAP alarms going off??? No offense
> meant, "Lost" but I cannot see a farmer doing this, and I just
> cannot see a CAT trying to suckle a cow. There are far too many
> barn cats worldwide for this to be a common occurance with cats
> and dairy cows.

Well, as you have already heard from someone you trust that it is
indeed possible about them nosing about for a drink.

Thanks for the trust though. Nah, I am kidding. But seriously I am
almost positive that I was told or remember one of the farmer's kids
telling me that they had no claws. I assumed they were declawed.

Also you mentioned you cannot believe that a farmer would pay to get
them declawed. I have no clue if they would or not, but these were
pets. And every farmer or "out in the country" person I have ever
known have taken care of their own animals for the most part. That
is where I learned to give vaccinations, nurse calves, and how to get
bit by horses.

I could be wrong about the claws as it has been a LONG time, but
again, I am positive there was something about their claws and I can
only guess that they had to be declawed. I have even seen mittens or
socks put on cats so they did not scratch udders, but that was not it
either. So...

See ya'!

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
October 1st 07, 05:55 AM
Response from "CatNipped" >:

> "-Lost" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Response from "CatNipped" >:
>>
>>> That's the truth! I'd just clipped everybody's claws this
>>> morning, then I let Archer out of the kennel so he could get
>>> some exercise. I have to be careful because he runs around
>>> pretty good even with the cast on his leg - faster than I can
>>> catch him - and before I could get there, he was halfway up the
>>> cat tree just by using his (clipped) front claws and pulling
>>> himself up the sisal wrapped post!
>>
>> CatNipped, If you do not mind me asking, how did Archer bust his
>> leg?
>
> I have an attached garage and I put cat doors in the doors leading
> into the house and my office (which is off the garage). The
> litter boxes are in the garage. I didn't know Archer was using
> the litter box when I walked into the garage and hit the button to
> open the garage door. The noise it made frightened Archer so bad
> he *TORE* out of the garage in a total panic. He hit his left
> rear leg on the door frame, but was so panicked he continued
> halfway up the stairs. He collapsed when he got to the landing.
> It was almost time for my vet to close, but we got there before
> they locked the door. However the vet was already in an emergency
> surgery so they sent us to the ER vet. We spent most of the
> evening (and $300) in the ER. They gave Archer a shot of
> morphine, took some x-rays, put him in a cast, and sent him home
> with pain pills and muscle relaxers. We spent another $100 on a
> large dog kennel at PetsMart because the vet said he shouldn't
> jump up and down from furniture or window sills but there isnt any
> room in the how with nothing for him to jump on (even the
> bathrooms). He's doing much better now, but is always crying to
> be let out of the kennel. I let him out as much as possible, but
> it has to be when I can spend 100% of my time just watching him
> (kittens are *FAST*). He and his bro-fur can get in trouble at
> the drop of a hat (5 month old kittens are like teen-agers but
> with the minds of toddlers).

Awww, poor Archer! Glad he is doing OK.

And you know, I never thought to ask anyone about Gabby's age. Do
you have any idea how old this kitty might be?

Message-ID: >

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7962/gabbyresizedzi7.jpg

Thanks, CatNipped. See ya'.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

Meghan Noecker
October 1st 07, 09:10 AM
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 03:22:19 -0500, "-Lost"
> wrote:


>Oh, and when you asked what would have happened had you not been
>home? As soon as I read "stuck" I thought of a kitty pulling so
>hard, partly because of freaking out, that his claw ripped from his
>toe. I am definitely glad you did not have to encounter that, Lucky
>too.


My nephew's cat actually ripped out 3 claws when my nephew tried to
force him to stay in his bedroom overnight. My nephew blocked the door
with crates and slept through the noise of his cat trying to pull the
door open. He awoke to find blood on the floor and 2 of the claws
complete, on the floor.

I got home from work that night and noticed Chase was refusing to
jump and looked uncomfortable. The vet checked to make sure they
weren't getting infected and told us they would grow back in, which
they did. It took 2-3 months. He was sore just walking around for teh
first month. Then, only sore when I messed with his feet. I wasn't
able to get a good look for myself for a good 2 months since I could
not press on his foot to get his claws to extend. It was obviously too
painful for him, so I just let the vet do it the once to check them.

Jean B.
October 1st 07, 06:17 PM
-Lost wrote:
> Well as promised I called today and talked to my friend. The doctor
> does in fact recommend getting them declawed. Instead of piece it
> together for you, I am going to clean up and copy and paste what I
> was able to type out while we talked.
>
> "Hey, Friend. How are you?"
> Them: "Good -Lost, you?"
>
> "Ah, so-so. I had a few more questions for you if you do not mind."
> Them: "Shoot!"
>
> "I was reading up on some different methods to stop kitty from
> clawing everything in sight..."
> Them: "Right, I remember..."
>
> "Well, could you explain the entire declawing process and do you
> recommend it or does the animal hospital recommend it?"
> Them: "Well, first off... how old is kitty?"
>
> "About 3 months give or take a month."
> Them: "Well that is the best time to get kitty declawed. In fact, we
> have a spay and front claw declawing program with a sterile scalpel
> that runs $128. However, we HIGHLY recommend the laser which seals
> nerve endings and cauterizes blood vessels. There is no bleeding, it
> is less painful for kitty, they have a quicker recovery time and the
> risk of infection is drastically reduced. That runs about $205, but
> does not include pain management or vaccinations."
>
> "Wow. So, do you recommend I do it? And what does the doctor feel
> about it?"
> Them: "Well, actually the administrator of both sites recommends it
> as does the doctor. I recommend it too if kitty is being destructive
> and you simply cannot break her from being destructive. Have you
> tried shaking a piggy bank at her or squirting her with a spray
> bottle full of water?"
>
> "No. She is not destructive in my opinion."
> Them: "Oh. Well, why do you want to get her declawed then?"
>
> "I don't! I was asking if it was recommended."
> Them: "Oh, well, yeah, we recommend it. Also, the sooner the better.
> We have found that kitties respond much better when they have it done
> early on rather than later in life."
>
> "How so?"
> Them: "How so what?"
>
> "How do they become used to not having toes?"
> Them: "No silly, it does not cut their toes off, only the tips of
> them that contain the nail. A lot of people think it cruel in fact
> to do it, but then you have some people who have nice things or
> leather furniture and whatnot and they do not want their things
> ruined. So, what were your other questions?"
>
> "To be honest, I cannot remember what the others were."
>
> At this point I just wanted to get off the phone.
>
> Them: "Well if you are worried about kitty's health afterward we
> provide lint-free, dust-free, shredded newspaper-like litter for you,
> in fact we call it 'Yesterday's News', so she'll be covered there.
> Do you want to set up an appointment?"
>
> "I need to talk it over with my spouse first. I'll let you know."
> Them: "OK, -Lost. If you have any other questions feel free and give
> us a call."
>
> "All right. Bu-bye."
> Them: "Bye."
>
> Also, when I first asked actually, they said "Well, we DO offer the
> service." But it quickly went from me thinking, "Oh, maybe they do
> not recommend it actually." to "They recommend the hell out of it."
>
> They also mentioned that if she was to be an indoor kitty that I need
> not worry about things like her being able to defend herself.
>
> I am seriously disappointed in this animal hospital now.
>
Gack! That's disgusting! In addition to the fact that it is
an awful thing to do, and I don't think vets (who one would
think would want what's best for their patients) should be
offering this--or pushing it--the thing about kittens struck
me as odd. Kittens are, well, kittens. They may be...
playful. Certainly moreso than older cats. So they most
likely will grow out of any destructive behavior they might
engage in....

No time to say more, but I do have more thoughts on the
matter. Now I am thinking I'll ask MY vets again. The main
one did advocate declawing. I want to ask the new one. I
HOPE she is more enlightened!

--
Jean B.

CatNipped[_2_]
October 1st 07, 06:46 PM
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Response from "CatNipped" >:
>
>> "-Lost" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Response from "CatNipped" >:
>>>
>>>> That's the truth! I'd just clipped everybody's claws this
>>>> morning, then I let Archer out of the kennel so he could get
>>>> some exercise. I have to be careful because he runs around
>>>> pretty good even with the cast on his leg - faster than I can
>>>> catch him - and before I could get there, he was halfway up the
>>>> cat tree just by using his (clipped) front claws and pulling
>>>> himself up the sisal wrapped post!
>>>
>>> CatNipped, If you do not mind me asking, how did Archer bust his
>>> leg?
>>
>> I have an attached garage and I put cat doors in the doors leading
>> into the house and my office (which is off the garage). The
>> litter boxes are in the garage. I didn't know Archer was using
>> the litter box when I walked into the garage and hit the button to
>> open the garage door. The noise it made frightened Archer so bad
>> he *TORE* out of the garage in a total panic. He hit his left
>> rear leg on the door frame, but was so panicked he continued
>> halfway up the stairs. He collapsed when he got to the landing.
>> It was almost time for my vet to close, but we got there before
>> they locked the door. However the vet was already in an emergency
>> surgery so they sent us to the ER vet. We spent most of the
>> evening (and $300) in the ER. They gave Archer a shot of
>> morphine, took some x-rays, put him in a cast, and sent him home
>> with pain pills and muscle relaxers. We spent another $100 on a
>> large dog kennel at PetsMart because the vet said he shouldn't
>> jump up and down from furniture or window sills but there isnt any
>> room in the how with nothing for him to jump on (even the
>> bathrooms). He's doing much better now, but is always crying to
>> be let out of the kennel. I let him out as much as possible, but
>> it has to be when I can spend 100% of my time just watching him
>> (kittens are *FAST*). He and his bro-fur can get in trouble at
>> the drop of a hat (5 month old kittens are like teen-agers but
>> with the minds of toddlers).
>
> Awww, poor Archer! Glad he is doing OK.
>
> And you know, I never thought to ask anyone about Gabby's age. Do
> you have any idea how old this kitty might be?
>
> Message-ID: >
>
> http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7962/gabbyresizedzi7.jpg
>
> Thanks, CatNipped. See ya'.

I have no idea - even vets can only estimate by the wear and tear on their
teeth (we once adopted a cat from a no-kill shelter whom they said was 3
years old, our vet said that, going by the teeth, he was at least 10 years
olf).

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

CatNipped[_2_]
October 1st 07, 06:47 PM
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Response from "CatNipped" >:
>
>> "-Lost" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Response from "CatNipped" >:
>>>
>>>> That's the truth! I'd just clipped everybody's claws this
>>>> morning, then I let Archer out of the kennel so he could get
>>>> some exercise. I have to be careful because he runs around
>>>> pretty good even with the cast on his leg - faster than I can
>>>> catch him - and before I could get there, he was halfway up the
>>>> cat tree just by using his (clipped) front claws and pulling
>>>> himself up the sisal wrapped post!
>>>
>>> CatNipped, If you do not mind me asking, how did Archer bust his
>>> leg?
>>
>> I have an attached garage and I put cat doors in the doors leading
>> into the house and my office (which is off the garage). The
>> litter boxes are in the garage. I didn't know Archer was using
>> the litter box when I walked into the garage and hit the button to
>> open the garage door. The noise it made frightened Archer so bad
>> he *TORE* out of the garage in a total panic. He hit his left
>> rear leg on the door frame, but was so panicked he continued
>> halfway up the stairs. He collapsed when he got to the landing.
>> It was almost time for my vet to close, but we got there before
>> they locked the door. However the vet was already in an emergency
>> surgery so they sent us to the ER vet. We spent most of the
>> evening (and $300) in the ER. They gave Archer a shot of
>> morphine, took some x-rays, put him in a cast, and sent him home
>> with pain pills and muscle relaxers. We spent another $100 on a
>> large dog kennel at PetsMart because the vet said he shouldn't
>> jump up and down from furniture or window sills but there isnt any
>> room in the how with nothing for him to jump on (even the
>> bathrooms). He's doing much better now, but is always crying to
>> be let out of the kennel. I let him out as much as possible, but
>> it has to be when I can spend 100% of my time just watching him
>> (kittens are *FAST*). He and his bro-fur can get in trouble at
>> the drop of a hat (5 month old kittens are like teen-agers but
>> with the minds of toddlers).
>
> Awww, poor Archer! Glad he is doing OK.
>
> And you know, I never thought to ask anyone about Gabby's age. Do
> you have any idea how old this kitty might be?
>
> Message-ID: >
>
> http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7962/gabbyresizedzi7.jpg
>
> Thanks, CatNipped. See ya'.

Sorry, forgot to add that just going by looks he appears to be about 4 or 5
months old.

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

PawsForThought
October 1st 07, 07:38 PM
On Sep 28, 2:01 pm, "-Lost" > wrote:
> > I am seriously disappointed in this animal hospital now.

As well you should be. I really hope you won't be taking your cat
there. I know I'm late to this thread, but I just have to say that
butchers like this should be banned from treating animals. There is a
website called the Declaw Hall of Shame. I would list this vet there.

Jean B.
October 1st 07, 08:41 PM
CatNipped wrote:
> Oh it's very beneficial - *FOR THE VET'S POCKETBOOK!!!* When I was looking
> for a new vet, I would call and ask them if the did declawing. If they said
> yes they got scratched off my list and I called the next one. Any vet who
> can so seriously maim a healthy animal like this is, in my opinion,
> seriously unethical.
>
> Hugs,
>
> CatNipped
>

How many did you go through before you hit one that didn't
offer it? Does anyone know (roughly) what the percentages
might be? Not only should they NOT offer this, they should
actively DISCOURAGE this!

--
Jean B.

Jean B.
October 1st 07, 08:42 PM
---MIKE--- wrote:
> Here is a picture of my collection of discarded claw sheaths.
>
> http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=1777604&a=13746150&p=73909198&Sequence=0&res=high
>

Hey! They're beautiful! I stopped collecting those and now
collect the (rarer) whiskers!
--
Jean B.

Jean B.
October 1st 07, 08:45 PM
---MIKE--- wrote:
> At least the picture of the sheaths is proof that I have not declawed my
> cats. Would you like to see my whisker collection?
>

Sure, if you haven't yet posted it. I don't find many, but I
consider them to be treasures!

--
Jean B.

Jean B.
October 1st 07, 08:50 PM
---MIKE--- wrote:
> http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=1777604&a=13746150&p=71611133&Sequence=0&res=high
>
>

Wow! You have lots of whiskers--and a tooth. I wish I got a
baby tooth....

--
Jean B.

---MIKE---
October 1st 07, 09:00 PM
Jean B wrote:

>>Wow! You have lots of whiskers--and a
>> tooth. I wish I got a baby tooth....

Unfortunately that is not a baby tooth. Amber lost it. Her breath
smelled awful so it was off to the vet followed by a dental cleaning.


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44░ 15' N - Elevation 1580')

-Lost
October 2nd 07, 04:29 AM
Response from (---MIKE---):

> Jean B wrote:
>
>>>Wow! You have lots of whiskers--and a
>>> tooth. I wish I got a baby tooth....
>
> Unfortunately that is not a baby tooth. Amber lost it. Her breath
> smelled awful so it was off to the vet followed by a dental cleaning.

Well that sucks. Did she have a cavity or something?

I was wondering myself how I would get one of Gabby's baby teeth. My
puppies always lost their's have a nice bone or two. Somehow I do not
think I should be giving Gabby a ham hock or cow femur...

....or could I?

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
October 2nd 07, 04:42 AM
Response from PawsForThought >:

> On Sep 28, 2:01 pm, "-Lost" > wrote:
>> > I am seriously disappointed in this animal hospital now.
>
> As well you should be. I really hope you won't be taking your cat
> there. I know I'm late to this thread, but I just have to say
> that butchers like this should be banned from treating animals.
> There is a website called the Declaw Hall of Shame. I would list
> this vet there.

You did not post a URL. Is this it?

http://www.geocities.com/declawhallofshame/

Also, it seems that they only accept submissions to the Hall of Shame
if the Web site actively promotes it. It does not mention the
service per se, but it talks about their "advanced laser surgery" and
I almost positive it is a cats paw the surgeon has in her hands as
she uses the laser to perform the onychectomy.

I see that "Megan" who runs the "Stop Declaw" Web site e-mailed me as
well. I am going to mention to the friend that they should refer to
the site and see what they have to say about it after that.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
October 2nd 07, 04:45 AM
Response from "Matthew" >:

> "Grace" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> Me either---re: farmers declawing barn cats. Whenever I was
>> little, our big barn boys were kept not only as pets, but because
>> of their wonderful mousing abilities. Though actually, our two
>> housecat's--- both females, were much better hunters.
>>
>
> Hah a farmer pay for anything that is not necessary. ;-) ( Ex
> farm boy here)
>
> When I milked the cows the barn cats were there. Many of days we
> did the spray jet right from the udder to the cat's mouth from 3
> feet away. I always filled a tub up and set it out for them to
> keep them out of the way.

Heh, I thought the same thing. On the farm we NEVER went to vets.
We did everything from birthing and vaccinations all the way to
mending wounds, setting busted bones, and sadly even putting down an
animal if we had to (I was a kid though, so the adults did this
part).

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
October 2nd 07, 04:47 AM
Response from "CatNipped" >:

> I have no idea - even vets can only estimate by the wear and tear
> on their teeth (we once adopted a cat from a no-kill shelter whom
> they said was 3 years old, our vet said that, going by the teeth,
> he was at least 10 years olf).

Ugh! So even shelters are out to make money by lying about the age of
an animal? *sighs*

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
October 2nd 07, 04:58 AM
Response from "CatNipped" >:

>> And you know, I never thought to ask anyone about Gabby's age.
>> Do you have any idea how old this kitty might be?
>>
>> Message-ID: >
>>
>> http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7962/gabbyresizedzi7.jpg
>>
>> Thanks, CatNipped. See ya'.
>
> Sorry, forgot to add that just going by looks he appears to be
> about 4 or 5 months old.

Cool, so I was not too far off. Sheelagh thought approximately the
same.

Oh, and Gabby is a she. : )

See ya'.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

Meghan Noecker
October 2nd 07, 08:10 AM
On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 22:47:39 -0500, "-Lost"
> wrote:

>Response from "CatNipped" >:
>
>> I have no idea - even vets can only estimate by the wear and tear
>> on their teeth (we once adopted a cat from a no-kill shelter whom
>> they said was 3 years old, our vet said that, going by the teeth,
>> he was at least 10 years olf).
>
>Ugh! So even shelters are out to make money by lying about the age of
>an animal? *sighs*

It's all guesswork. My cat was listed at 3-4 years old and turned out
to be only about a year. They were guessing by his size (12.5 lbs)
that he was an adult.

But he kept growing and is now a good 17 lbs and no longer growing.
Now that I know he is a Ragdoll, I can look guess that he was about a
year since they typically run a pound a month for the first year, and
then a few spurts. But he could have been a little older or younger. I
know Ragdolls that weigh 13 lbs who are under a year.

So, in my case, I got bonus years.

Meghan Noecker
October 2nd 07, 08:13 AM
On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 15:50:16 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:

>---MIKE--- wrote:
>> http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=1777604&a=13746150&p=71611133&Sequence=0&res=high
>>
>>
>
>Wow! You have lots of whiskers--and a tooth. I wish I got a
>baby tooth....


I got lucky with mine. Chase had double fangs for a couple weeks, so I
checked him a couple times a day. When he lost the first one, I
searched everywhere I could think of. Beds, food bowls, cat trees,
rugs, etc. No luck.

After he kost the second one, I searched again and found it on the
living room floor.

I have had 3 of my own cats from kittens and I never saw a double fang
and never saw any kitten teeth.

Meghan Noecker
October 2nd 07, 08:14 AM
On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 22:29:23 -0500, "-Lost"
> wrote:

>Response from (---MIKE---):
>
>> Jean B wrote:
>>
>>>>Wow! You have lots of whiskers--and a
>>>> tooth. I wish I got a baby tooth....
>>
>> Unfortunately that is not a baby tooth. Amber lost it. Her breath
>> smelled awful so it was off to the vet followed by a dental cleaning.
>
>Well that sucks. Did she have a cavity or something?
>
>I was wondering myself how I would get one of Gabby's baby teeth. My
>puppies always lost their's have a nice bone or two. Somehow I do not
>think I should be giving Gabby a ham hock or cow femur...
>


Just keep an eye for double fangs and if you see that, start checking
for when she is back to a single. Then search everywhere.

-Lost
October 2nd 07, 09:46 AM
Response from Meghan Noecker >:

> On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 22:47:39 -0500, "-Lost"
> > wrote:
>
>>Response from "CatNipped" >:
>>
>>> I have no idea - even vets can only estimate by the wear and
>>> tear on their teeth (we once adopted a cat from a no-kill
>>> shelter whom they said was 3 years old, our vet said that, going
>>> by the teeth, he was at least 10 years olf).
>>
>>Ugh! So even shelters are out to make money by lying about the
>>age of an animal? *sighs*
>
> It's all guesswork. My cat was listed at 3-4 years old and turned
> out to be only about a year. They were guessing by his size (12.5
> lbs) that he was an adult.
>
> But he kept growing and is now a good 17 lbs and no longer
> growing. Now that I know he is a Ragdoll, I can look guess that he
> was about a year since they typically run a pound a month for the
> first year, and then a few spurts. But he could have been a little
> older or younger. I know Ragdolls that weigh 13 lbs who are under
> a year.
>
> So, in my case, I got bonus years.

That is definitely cool! Plus it seems that they were not out to
just get the adoption money!

For some reason I still cannot picture Gabby being more than the 2
pounds or so she is now. A 17 pound Gabby would result in the entire
household staying away from this little bundle of energetic claws.

Well... except for me because I just love fighting with her. It is
no wonder I have swollen cat scratches everywhere. (Yep, I know,
wash thoroughly afterward and keep them clean and watch out for any
signs of infect or CSF.) Talk about a glutton for punishment.
Hahaha!

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

CatNipped[_2_]
October 2nd 07, 03:10 PM
"Jean B." > wrote in message
...
> CatNipped wrote:
>> Oh it's very beneficial - *FOR THE VET'S POCKETBOOK!!!* When I was
>> looking for a new vet, I would call and ask them if the did declawing.
>> If they said yes they got scratched off my list and I called the next
>> one. Any vet who can so seriously maim a healthy animal like this is, in
>> my opinion, seriously unethical.
>>
>> Hugs,
>>
>> CatNipped
>>
>
> How many did you go through before you hit one that didn't offer it?

I called six vets before I found one who didn't "routinely" do it (the vet
tech at the seventh said the vet discusses the procedure thoroughly with the
owners who ask for it to make sure they know how harmful it can be, but will
still do it if the owner insists that they can't keep the cat without having
it done - she said in the five years she's been working there no pet owner
has insisted the vet do it after the vet explains the procedure).

> Does anyone know (roughly) what the percentages might be?

In the US? There are not many that don't, unfortunately.

> Not only should they NOT offer this, they should actively DISCOURAGE this!

I think it should be outlawed like other civilized countries do.

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> Jean B.

CatNipped[_2_]
October 2nd 07, 03:30 PM
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Response from "CatNipped" >:
>
>>> And you know, I never thought to ask anyone about Gabby's age.
>>> Do you have any idea how old this kitty might be?
>>>
>>> Message-ID: >
>>>
>>> http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7962/gabbyresizedzi7.jpg
>>>
>>> Thanks, CatNipped. See ya'.
>>
>> Sorry, forgot to add that just going by looks he appears to be
>> about 4 or 5 months old.
>
> Cool, so I was not too far off. Sheelagh thought approximately the
> same.
>
> Oh, and Gabby is a she. : )

Oops, sorry!

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> See ya'.
>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

CatNipped[_2_]
October 2nd 07, 03:34 PM
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Response from Meghan Noecker >:
>
>> On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 22:47:39 -0500, "-Lost"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Response from "CatNipped" >:
>>>
>>>> I have no idea - even vets can only estimate by the wear and
>>>> tear on their teeth (we once adopted a cat from a no-kill
>>>> shelter whom they said was 3 years old, our vet said that, going
>>>> by the teeth, he was at least 10 years olf).
>>>
>>>Ugh! So even shelters are out to make money by lying about the
>>>age of an animal? *sighs*
>>
>> It's all guesswork. My cat was listed at 3-4 years old and turned
>> out to be only about a year. They were guessing by his size (12.5
>> lbs) that he was an adult.
>>
>> But he kept growing and is now a good 17 lbs and no longer
>> growing. Now that I know he is a Ragdoll, I can look guess that he
>> was about a year since they typically run a pound a month for the
>> first year, and then a few spurts. But he could have been a little
>> older or younger. I know Ragdolls that weigh 13 lbs who are under
>> a year.
>>
>> So, in my case, I got bonus years.
>
> That is definitely cool! Plus it seems that they were not out to
> just get the adoption money!
>
> For some reason I still cannot picture Gabby being more than the 2
> pounds or so she is now. A 17 pound Gabby would result in the entire
> household staying away from this little bundle of energetic claws.
>
> Well... except for me because I just love fighting with her. It is
> no wonder I have swollen cat scratches everywhere. (Yep, I know,
> wash thoroughly afterward and keep them clean and watch out for any
> signs of infect or CSF.) Talk about a glutton for punishment.
> Hahaha!

I really, really wouldn't let her bite or scratch. What's cute now as a
kitten could be ER injuries when she's an adult. To get Gabby to stop
attacking your hand, try the "kitten crying uncle" technique
(http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/Mew.mpg) - and then immediately
offer her a cat toy instead.

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

Meghan Noecker
October 2nd 07, 10:58 PM
On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 03:46:25 -0500, "-Lost"
> wrote:


>
>That is definitely cool! Plus it seems that they were not out to
>just get the adoption money!
>

Regardless of age, though, they only charge $75 for a cat. That
includes vet checkup, tests for disease, vaccinations, microchip, and
spay/neuter. That would all cost me more than $75. I know they get a
discount, but they aren't making any money on that. The cats are all
housed in homes by volunteers. All money taken goes to vet care and
food.

I don't know how they manage to keep doing it, except that the
volunteers are paying with their time and their own money to keep it
going when donations are low.


>For some reason I still cannot picture Gabby being more than the 2
>pounds or so she is now. A 17 pound Gabby would result in the entire
>household staying away from this little bundle of energetic claws.


No worries. Gabby is not a thick buit cat, so she would have to
severely overweight to get to 17 lbs. Jay Jay is a Ragdoll with a
frame built to carry a heavier load.

>
>Well... except for me because I just love fighting with her. It is
>no wonder I have swollen cat scratches everywhere. (Yep, I know,
>wash thoroughly afterward and keep them clean and watch out for any
>signs of infect or CSF.) Talk about a glutton for punishment.

I always have at least one current scratch somewhere.

-Lost
October 3rd 07, 06:25 AM
Response from "CatNipped" >:

>> For some reason I still cannot picture Gabby being more than the
>> 2 pounds or so she is now. A 17 pound Gabby would result in the
>> entire household staying away from this little bundle of
>> energetic claws.
>>
>> Well... except for me because I just love fighting with her. It
>> is no wonder I have swollen cat scratches everywhere. (Yep, I
>> know, wash thoroughly afterward and keep them clean and watch out
>> for any signs of infect or CSF.) Talk about a glutton for
>> punishment. Hahaha!
>
> I really, really wouldn't let her bite or scratch. What's cute
> now as a kitten could be ER injuries when she's an adult. To get
> Gabby to stop attacking your hand, try the "kitten crying uncle"
> technique (http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/Mew.mpg) - and
> then immediately offer her a cat toy instead.

1. That looked and sounded like a GREAT idea.

2. I am almost positive I heard Gabby mutter that I was an schmuck
under her breath when I tried it. Hahaha!

No, seriously, I gave it a go and it did not seem to deter her in the
least.

On the bright side, I have developed a couple of ways to get her to
stop. Although they are not quite foolproof.

So any other ideas I could try along those lines? She stares at me
quizzically when I do it, but that is the few seconds before she
sinks her fangs back in.

Thanks, CatNipped. By the way... you did not record that just for me
did you?

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
October 3rd 07, 06:32 AM
Response from Meghan Noecker >:

> On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 03:46:25 -0500, "-Lost"
> > wrote:
>>
>>That is definitely cool! Plus it seems that they were not out to
>>just get the adoption money!
>>
>
> Regardless of age, though, they only charge $75 for a cat. That
> includes vet checkup, tests for disease, vaccinations, microchip,
> and spay/neuter. That would all cost me more than $75. I know they
> get a discount, but they aren't making any money on that. The cats
> are all housed in homes by volunteers. All money taken goes to vet
> care and food.
>
> I don't know how they manage to keep doing it, except that the
> volunteers are paying with their time and their own money to keep
> it going when donations are low.

That is definitely awesome. True animal lovers amaze me. I only
wish I had the money to do what I wanted in that regard.

1. 1,000+ acres.
2. Fenced off in groups of 50+ acres.
3. Domestic animals are closest to the compound.
4. Domestic animals have heating and cooled housing.
5. The money to afford cleaners and helpers for all of the above.

We have that currently, well, divided by 100. Heh.

>>For some reason I still cannot picture Gabby being more than the 2
>>pounds or so she is now. A 17 pound Gabby would result in the
>>entire household staying away from this little bundle of energetic
>>claws.
>
> No worries. Gabby is not a thick buit cat, so she would have to
> severely overweight to get to 17 lbs. Jay Jay is a Ragdoll with a
> frame built to carry a heavier load.

I assume that was "built." No, she is not big at all, but she
definitely has a little tummy and TONS of muscle for her little 4 to
5 pound frame. Yeah, I have since decided she is definitely heavier
than 2 pounds.

>>Well... except for me because I just love fighting with her. It
>>is no wonder I have swollen cat scratches everywhere. (Yep, I
>>know, wash thoroughly afterward and keep them clean and watch out
>>for any signs of infect or CSF.) Talk about a glutton for
>>punishment.
>
> I always have at least one current scratch somewhere.

I have had nothing but since she came to me. It has become a daily
ritual for the family to compare wounds and make sure everybody has
properly disinfected themselves.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
October 3rd 07, 06:32 AM
Response from "CatNipped" >:

>> Oh, and Gabby is a she. : )
>
> Oops, sorry!

NO problem. : )

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

cybercat
October 3rd 07, 10:06 AM
"-Lost" > wrote
>> now as a kitten could be ER injuries when she's an adult. To get
>> Gabby to stop attacking your hand, try the "kitten crying uncle"
>> technique (http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/Mew.mpg) - and
>> then immediately offer her a cat toy instead.
>

I could just eat them up like a butterscotch sundae. :)

PawsForThought
October 3rd 07, 05:28 PM
On Oct 1, 11:42 pm, "-Lost" > wrote:
> Response from PawsForThought >:
>
> > On Sep 28, 2:01 pm, "-Lost" > wrote:
> >> > I am seriously disappointed in this animal hospital now.
>
> > As well you should be. I really hope you won't be taking your cat
> > there. I know I'm late to this thread, but I just have to say
> > that butchers like this should be banned from treating animals.
> > There is a website called the Declaw Hall of Shame. I would list
> > this vet there.
>
> You did not post a URL. Is this it?
>
> http://www.geocities.com/declawhallofshame/

Sorry, I was posting from work and got interrupted, but yes, that's
it.

> I see that "Megan" who runs the "Stop Declaw" Web site e-mailed me as
> well. I am going to mention to the friend that they should refer to
> the site and see what they have to say about it after that.

Oh good. Megan has lots of really good information.

It still boggles my mind that vets who purport to care for cats can do
this to them :(

CatNipped[_2_]
October 3rd 07, 07:55 PM
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Response from "CatNipped" >:
>
>>> For some reason I still cannot picture Gabby being more than the
>>> 2 pounds or so she is now. A 17 pound Gabby would result in the
>>> entire household staying away from this little bundle of
>>> energetic claws.
>>>
>>> Well... except for me because I just love fighting with her. It
>>> is no wonder I have swollen cat scratches everywhere. (Yep, I
>>> know, wash thoroughly afterward and keep them clean and watch out
>>> for any signs of infect or CSF.) Talk about a glutton for
>>> punishment. Hahaha!
>>
>> I really, really wouldn't let her bite or scratch. What's cute
>> now as a kitten could be ER injuries when she's an adult. To get
>> Gabby to stop attacking your hand, try the "kitten crying uncle"
>> technique (http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/Mew.mpg) - and
>> then immediately offer her a cat toy instead.
>
> 1. That looked and sounded like a GREAT idea.
>
> 2. I am almost positive I heard Gabby mutter that I was an schmuck
> under her breath when I tried it. Hahaha!
>
> No, seriously, I gave it a go and it did not seem to deter her in the
> least.
>
> On the bright side, I have developed a couple of ways to get her to
> stop. Although they are not quite foolproof.
>
> So any other ideas I could try along those lines? She stares at me
> quizzically when I do it, but that is the few seconds before she
> sinks her fangs back in.

That's all it will work for is a few seconds (you'd need to watch kittens at
play to see their interaction and communication). This is the way kittens
cry "uncle" when one of them gets too rough with the other, but they only
wait a few seconds before they start in on each other again. All my cats
think I'm a total wuss of a kitten for crying uncle so soon and so often,
but none of my cats bite or scratch me.

You just need to take those few seconds to pull your hand away and
substitute a toy (cats are quick, you've got to step up your game if you
want to play with the felines! ;>). Also, when a cat seriously bites you,
you have to struggle against your instincts to yank your hand away - yanking
your hand away only succeeds in sinking the cats teeth deeper and makes them
bite down harder. A cat's mouth, teeth, and tongue are designed to draw
prey inwards and their instinct is to bite harder when prey struggles.
Instead of yanking your hand away, push your hand inwards to the back of the
cat's mouth. This will cause them to gag and open their mouth wide enough
for you to safely get your hand out.

>
> Thanks, CatNipped. By the way... you did not record that just for me
> did you?

Nope, I've told this trick to quite a few people who had trouble with biting
kittens, so I thought I'd video a demonstration rather than trying to
describe the process. Also, you've got to get the right tone and pitch when
you do your "MEW" or it won't work so it's better to hear the sound you're
supposed to make.

Also, commenting on an earlier comment of yours - you may not mind your cat
biting you, but someone else (a friend or family member) might mind very
much, and it's your responsibility as the "momma cat" to train your kitten
in proper social ettiquette. Cats, unlike many mammals, are not born with
instincts that cover their every behavior - they learn how to behave from
their mother (for example, cats may instinctually know how to capture
something that moves, but they won't know that it's "food" unless their
mother shows them - that's why mother cats bring home live prey so they can
demonstrate to their kittens the correct killing technique and that this
creature is appropriate to eat).

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

CatNipped[_2_]
October 3rd 07, 07:56 PM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "-Lost" > wrote
>>> now as a kitten could be ER injuries when she's an adult. To get
>>> Gabby to stop attacking your hand, try the "kitten crying uncle"
>>> technique (http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/Mew.mpg) - and
>>> then immediately offer her a cat toy instead.
>>
>
> I could just eat them up like a butterscotch sundae. :)

Right now, regarding Archer ("the bad"), I could eat his lunch for him I'm
so mad! He's learning all kinds of bad behavior in order to get taken out
of his kennel!

Hugs,

CatNipped

Mashauk
October 4th 07, 12:07 AM
On 29 Sep, 00:30, "cybercat" > wrote:
> "Mashauk" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > I've never clipped my cat's claws either, I wouldn't dare for a
> > start! He uses the old sofa (and the new sofa when I'm out), the tree
> > outside and anything else he fancies, he, after all, a cat....
>
> > I reckon if you can't handle everything in the house being
> > systematically moulted on, hairballed up on, licked, scratched etc -
> > don't live with a cat!
>
> That's not helpful, Marcia, for those who don't want to live in a
> nasty place and have all their things wrecked. It is easy to trim
> nails and get things that cats prefer to scratch.

He has a variety of scratching posts and things he's supposed to like
to scratch, I've also sprayed the furniture with cat repellent, it
doesn't work on him, it wouldn't be easy for me to trim his nails and
I don't want to hurt him - he doesn't scratch the furniture in front
of me, he knows he's not supposed to do, he's 17 and is very wise! My
place isn't nasty by the way LOL.

October 6th 07, 03:24 AM
John Doe is really Mark Bender, arrested twice for domestic violence
and sued into abject poverty. Here is the official report on him.

29-10947 Mark O. Bender
7/25/2007 Dossier


REQUEST OF CLIENT

On July 24, 2007, Martin Markoe with eMicrophones, Inc. contacted
Kelmar & Associates, with the request for a full background/dossier on
Mr. Mark O. Bender.

SUMMARY OF INVESTIGATION

Our office found Mr. Mark Bender's current address is 509 Frost, SATX
78201, to be owned by Ms. Gloria Trevino. There are many rental homes
in this area. Mr. Bender has never owned property. He does not own a
vehicle. He doesn't have a TX Driver's license. He does have a TX
State ID. He has been arrested twice for Assault/Family/Domestic
Violence. Both charges were dismissed. There is a possibility that the
"Mark Bender" named in the Bexar County Civil case for damages could
be the same Mark Orrin Bender with in this report. The court documents
would to be ordered at any additional cost to the client.


Custom Comprehensive Report
Date: 07/24/07

Report processed by:
KELMAR AND ASSOCIATES M16489
2553 JACKSON KELLER STE 200
San Antonio, TX 78230
(210) 342-0509 Main Phone
(210) 342-0731 Fax Report Legend:
- Shared Address
- Deceased
- Probable Current Address


Subject Information:
Name: MARK ORRIN BENDER DOB:01/22/1957
SSN: 507-82-xxxx issued in Nebraska between 01/01/1972 and
12/31/1973
Age: 50

Others Associated With Subjects SSN:
(DOES NOT usually indicate any type of fraud or deception)
[None Found]

Comprehensive Report Summary: (Click on Link to see detail)
Names Associated With Subject:
None Found
Others Associated With Subjects SSN:
None Found
Bankruptcies:
None Found
Liens and Judgments:
None Found
UCC Filings:
None Found
People at Work:
None Found
Driver's License:
None Found
Address(es) Found:
1 Verified and 5 Non-Verified Found
Possible Properties Owned:
None Found
Motor Vehicles Registered:
None Found
Watercraft:
None Found
FAA Certifications:
None Found
FAA Aircrafts:
None Found
Possible Criminal Records:
1 Found
Sexual Offenses:
None Found
Professional Licenses:
None Found
Voter Registration:
1 Found
Hunting/Fishing Permit:
None Found
Concealed Weapons Permit:
None Found
Possible Associates:
None Found
Possible Relatives:
1st Degree - None Found
2nd Degree - None Found
3rd Degree - None Found
Neighbors:
1st Neighborhood - 3 Found
2nd Neighborhood - None Found
3rd Neighborhood - 2 Found

Bankruptcies:
[None Found]

Liens and Judgments:
[None Found]

UCC Filings:
[None Found]

People at Work:
[None Found]

Driver's License/State ID Information:

Texas ID Detail:

Name
BENDER,MARK ORRIN License number
20826255 Address
5320 BLANCO #1803 DOB
Jan 22 1957
Class
I City/Zip
SAN ANTONIO 78216 Last transaction date
Apr 9 2003 Last transaction
Original, not permit or MRDL

Above information as provided by state - Our annotations are below
Address (click to find others)
5320 Blanco Rd Apt 1803
City/State/Zip (click to find others)
San Antonio , TX 78216-7052



Address Summary:
509 FROST, SAN ANTONIO TX 78201-3347, BEXAR COUNTY (Nov 2005 -
May 2007)
4210 309 APT B, SAN ANTONIO TX 78201, BEXAR COUNTY (Dec 2002 -
Oct 2003)
4210 FREDERICKSBURG RD APT B309, SAN ANTONIO TX 78201-1912,
BEXAR COUNTY (Jan 1991 - Jan 1999)
5347 BLANCO RD APT B8, SAN ANTONIO TX 78216-7027, BEXAR COUNTY
(Apr 1986 - Dec 1992)
4210 FREDERICKSBURG RD APT B316, SAN ANTONIO TX 78201-1914,
BEXAR COUNTY
7458 LOUIS PASTEUR DR APT 701, SAN ANTONIO TX 78229-4517, BEXAR
COUNTY

Active Address(es):
MARK O BENDER - 509 FROST, SAN ANTONIO TX 78201-3347, BEXAR
COUNTY (Nov 2005 - May 2007)
Current phones listed at this address:
BENDER MARK (210) 734-3107
TREVINO MICHELLE (210) 736-5743
Property Ownership Information for this Address
Property:
Parcel Number - 08441-026-0240
Lot Number - 24
Owner Name 1 - TREVINO GLORIA C
Address - 509 FROST, SAN ANTONIO TX
78201-3347, BEXAR COUNTY
Owner's Address - 509 FROST, SAN ANTONIO
TX 78201-3347, BEXAR COUNTY
Land Usage - SFR
Total Value - $79,610
Land Value - $13,230
Improvement Value - $66,380
Land Size - 9,000
Year Built - 1926
Homestead Exemption - YES
Exterior Walls - STUCCO
Roof Type - ASPHALT SHINGLE
Air Conditioning - AC.CENTRAL
Heating - FORCED AIR
Sale Price - $0
Legal Description - NCB 8441 BLK 26 LOT
24 & 25 & 26
Data Source - A
Neighborhood Profile (2000 Census)
Average Age: 37
Median Household Income: $38,438
Median Owner Occupied Home Value: $47,100
Average Years of Education: 10


Previous And Non-Verified Address(es):
MARK ORRIN BENDER - 4210 309 APT B, SAN ANTONIO TX 78201,
BEXAR COUNTY (Dec 2002 - Oct 2003)
Neighborhood Profile (2000 Census)
Average Age: 30
Median Household Income: $32,417
Median Owner Occupied Home Value: $50,100
Average Years of Education: 12

MARK O BENDER - 4210 FREDERICKSBURG RD APT B309, SAN ANTONIO
TX 78201-1912, BEXAR COUNTY (Jan 1991 - Jan 1999)
SANTA FE PLACE (210) 735-8767
Neighborhood Profile (2000 Census)
Average Age: 32
Median Household Income: $18,304
Median Owner Occupied Home Value: $91,300
Average Years of Education: 12

MARK O BENDER - 5347 BLANCO RD APT B8, SAN ANTONIO TX
78216-7027, BEXAR COUNTY (Apr 1986 - Dec 1992)
NIMITZ APARTMENTS (210) 341-5285
Neighborhood Profile (2000 Census)
Average Age: 29
Median Household Income: $23,611
Median Owner Occupied Home Value: $65,500
Average Years of Education: 12

MARK O BENDER - 4210 FREDERICKSBURG RD APT B316, SAN ANTONIO
TX 78201-1914, BEXAR COUNTY
SANTA FE PLACE (210) 735-8767
Neighborhood Profile (2000 Census)
Average Age: 32
Median Household Income: $18,304
Median Owner Occupied Home Value: $91,300
Average Years of Education: 12

MARK O BENDER - 7458 LOUIS PASTEUR DR APT 701, SAN ANTONIO TX
78229-4517, BEXAR COUNTY
SAN ANTONIO STATION (210) 614-3679
Neighborhood Profile (2000 Census)
Average Age: 41
Median Household Income: $31,783
Median Owner Occupied Home Value: $111,800
Average Years of Education: 14

Possible Properties Owned by Subject:
[None Found]

Motor Vehicles Registered To Subject:
[None Found]

Possible Criminal Records:
Texas Arrest Report:
Name: MARK BEDNER
SSN: 507-82-xxxx
Address: 5200 BLANCO RD 407, SAN ANTONIO TX 78216-7074
State of Origin: Texas
County of Origin: Bexar
Party Status: REL'D ON P-R BOND
DOB: 01/22/1957
Race: White
Sex: Male
Eyes: BLUE
Height: 5' 06"
Weight: 160

Arrests:
Arrest #1
Case Type:
Arrest Date: 01/25/1987
Arresting Agency:
Arrest Type:
Arrest Disposition Date: 01/25/1987
Court Fine: Offense: ASSAULT-BODILY INJURY
Arrest Statute:
Agency Case #: 366381
Arrest Level/Degree: Class A Misdemeanor
Arrest Disposition: BOOKED



CASE NUMBER 366381 displayed
successfully
Bexar County Criminal Justice Information System
07/24/2007
Texas Case Page
10:46:19

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Court Case Number Defendant Name
Date of
CR7 366381 BEDNER,
MARK Birth

01/22/1957
Offense Description Level Sex:
MALE
02/21/1986 ASSAULT-BODILY INJURY MA Race:
WHITE
Location :
CLOSED
Last Setting: Grand Jury: 05/13/1986
FILED
Case Status: 06/29/1987 *** JN CLOSED
***
Disposition : 06/29/1987 DSMD-INTRST
JUSTCE

Judgement :
Bond: CLS 06/29/1987
1500.00
Start: End: By: BAIL BONDS,
PERSONAL

Defense Attorneys Bar Number Yrs Mo Dy
Hrs
MIKE HERVEY 9546500
Term:

Fine:
Court
Cost:



CASE NUMBER 348742 displayed
successfully
Bexar County Criminal Justice Information System
07/25/2007
Texas Case Page
09:57:05
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Court Case Number Defendant Name
Date of
CR7 348742 BEDNER, MARK
Birth

01/22/1957
Offense Description Level Sex:
MALE
08/05/1985 ASSAULT-BODILY INJURY MA Race:
WHITE
Location :
CLOSED
Last Setting: 09/23/1985 TRIAL Grand Jury: 08/12/1985
FILED
Case Status: 08/12/1988 *** JN CLOSED
***
Disposition : 09/23/1985 DSMD-
OTHER

Judgement :
Bond: CLS 09/23/1985
800.00
Start: End: By: BAIL BONDS, PERSONAL
PROGRAM

Defense Attorneys Bar Number Yrs Mo Dy
Hrs
MERCEDES JEAN KUTCH 11770545 Term:

Fine:
Court Cost:


Bexar Possible Civil:

Cause Nbr 1986CI10562 displayed
successfully
***** Bexar County Centralized Docket System
*****
07/24/2007 - Docket Information -
11:04:15
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
Selection: __ Actions: _
(A,C,D,M,P)
CASE NBR: 1986CI10562____ PRINT RT LABELS? N (Y/
N)

Date Filed: 06/12/1986 Court: 166_ Unpaid Balance:
0.00
Type of Docket: PID__ PERSONAL INJURY &
DAMAGES

* * * S T Y L E * *
*
MAX WHITMAN & HARRIET
WHITMAN_____________________
VS MARK BENDER
&_____________________________________

DISCOVERY LEVEL:
_
Account Type: __ Account Number:
____________
Access: _ PUBLIC Status: D
DISPOSED
List Type: C
CIVIL

Litigant(s) for Cause Nbr 1986CI10562 displayed
successfully
***** Bexar County Centralized Docket System
*****
07/24/2007 - Litigant Information -
11:05:23

__________________________________________________ ____________________________
Selection: __ Case Nbr:
1986CI10562____
Style: MAX WHITMAN & HARRIET WHITMAN vs MARK BENDER
&
Court: 166 Docket Type: PERSONAL INJURY & DAMAGES Status:
DISPOSED
Actions: (A,D,M,P) Unpaid Balance: 0.00 Account
Number:
Seq Last /First /Middle Name Lit. Type/Attorney
Date
_ 00001 WHITMAN MAX PLAINTIFF
06/12/1986
DROZD, LINDA M
210 498-0663
_ 00002 WHITMAN HARRIET PLAINTIFF
06/12/1986
DROZD, LINDA M
210 498-0663
_ 00003 BENDER MARK DEFENDANT
06/12/1986
EZZELL, JAMES MICHAE
210 731-6300
_ 00004 DR PEPPER BOTTLING COMPANY DEFENDANT
06/12/1986
EZZELL, JAMES MICHAE
210 731-6300

TX Criminal:

SUBJECT INFORMATION

Name: mark bender Social Security #: -- Birth Date: 01/22/1957

Alias Last: Alias First: Race/Gender: /


Criminal Record (mark bender) TX - * Statewide PLUS *
Status: Completed (CLEAR)
# Years Searched: 7 Date Completed: 7/25/2007 9:59:56 AM
Reporting Period: 07/25/2000 - 07/25/2007
Additional Info: *** Instant search results ***
No record found



Sexual Offenses:
[None Found]

Professional License(s):
[None Found]

Voter Registration:
Name: MARK BENDER
Address: 4210 FREDERICKSBURG RD APT B309, SAN ANTONIO TX
78201-1912
DOB: 01/22/1957
Gender: Male
Registration Date: 12/08/1984
State of Registration: Texas
Status: Active

Hunting/Fishing Permit:
[None Found]

Concealed Weapons Permit:
[None Found]

Possible Associates:
[None Found]

Possible Relatives:
[None Found]

Neighbors:
Neighborhood:
509 FROST, SAN ANTONIO TX 78201-3347, BEXAR COUNTY (Oct
1991)
Residents:
MARK O BENDER Age:
507-82-xxxx issued in Nebraska
between 01/01/1972 and 12/31/1973
ANDREA TREVINO Age:
463-76-xxxx issued in Texas
between 01/01/1963 and 12/31/1963
GLORIA C TREVINO DOB: 05/19/1947 Age: 60
463-76-xxxx issued in Texas
between 01/01/1963 and 12/31/1963
MICHELE TREVINO Age:
457-71-xxxx issued in Texas
between 01/01/1985 and 12/31/1985
MICHELLE TREVINO Age:
457-71-xxxx issued in Texas
between 01/01/1985 and 12/31/1985
VICENTE L TREVINO Age:
463-62-xxxx issued in Texas
between 01/01/1956 and 12/31/1957
Current phones listed at this address:
TREVINO MICHELLE (210) 736-5743
BENDER MARK (210) 734-3107


Address(es):
508 FROST, SAN ANTONIO TX 78201-3346, BEXAR
COUNTY
LUZMCARMEN CAMPOS Age:
CAMPOS LUZMCARMEN (210) 736-6798

510 FROST, SAN ANTONIO TX 78201-3346, BEXAR
COUNTY (Nov 2005 - May 2007)
MONICA ANGUINAGA Age:
ANGUINAGA MONICA (210) 731-8828

507 FROST, SAN ANTONIO TX 78201-3347, BEXAR
COUNTY (Jun 2002 - Jun 2007)
Residents:
ELIZABETH DALIA ROMAN DOB:
03/14/1973 Age: 34
453-73-xxxx issued in Texas
between 01/01/1985 and 12/31/1986
ENRIQUE VAZQUEZ ROMAN DOB:
10/18/1956 Age: 50
450-57-xxxx issued in Texas
between 01/01/1982 and 12/31/1982
JESSE ENRIQUE ROMAN DOB:
11/13/1976 Age: 30
466-71-xxxx issued in Texas
between 01/01/1985 and 12/31/1985
TERESA G ROMAN Age:
459-36-xxxx issued in Texas
between 01/01/1936 and 12/31/1951

Neighborhood:
4210 309 APT B, SAN ANTONIO TX 78201, BEXAR COUNTY (Dec
2002 - Oct 2003)

Neighborhood:
4210 FREDERICKSBURG RD APT E203, BALCONES HTS TX
78201-1925, BEXAR COUNTY
SANTA FE PLACE (210) 735-8767


Address(es):
4205 FREDERICKSBURG RD, BALCONES HTS TX
78201-1902, BEXAR COUNTY
TACO CABANA (210) 733-3911

4220 FREDERICKSBURG RD, BALCONES HTS TX
78201-1901, BEXAR COUNTY
WORLD CAR MAZDA ISUZU SUZUKI (210)
735-6000





Bexar County Appraisal District- Property Rolls

Account
Property ID: 415948 Legal Description: NCB 8441 BLK 26 LOT 24 & 25 &
26
Geographic ID: 08441-026-0240 Agent Code:
Type: Real
Location
Address: 509 FROST Mapsco: 581F5
Neighborhood: LOS ANGELES HEIGHTS (SA) Map ID:
Neighborhood CD: 57017
Owner
Name: TREVINO GLORIA C Owner ID: 316021
Mailing Address: 509 FROST
SAN ANTONIO, TX 78201-3347 % Ownership: 100.0000000000%
Exemptions:
HS
Values
(+) Improvement Homesite Value: + $78,340
(+) Improvement Non-Homesite Value: + $0
(+) Land Homesite Value: + $13,230
(+) Land Non-Homesite Value: + $0 Ag / Timber Use Value
(+) Agricultural Market Valuation: + $0 $0
(+) Timber Market Valuation: + $0 $0
--------------------------
(=) Market Value: = $91,570
(-) Ag or Timber Use Value Reduction: - $0
--------------------------
(=) Appraised Value: = $91,570
(-) HS Cap: - $6,507
--------------------------
(=) Assessed Value: = $85,063
Taxing Jurisdiction
Owner: TREVINO GLORIA C
% Ownership: 100.0000000000%
Total Value: $91,570
Entity Description Tax Rate Appraised Value Taxable Value Estimated
Tax
06 BEXAR CO RD & FLOOD 0.012719 $91,570 $82,063 $10.44
08 SA RIVER AUTH 0.016045 $91,570 $80,063 $12.85
09 ALAMO COM COLLEGE 0.137050 $91,570 $85,063 $116.58
10 UNIV HEALTH SYSTEM 0.243869 $91,570 $85,063 $207.44
11 BEXAR COUNTY 0.314147 $91,570 $85,063 $267.22
21 CITY OF SAN ANTONIO 0.578540 $91,570 $85,063 $492.12
57 SAN ANTONIO ISD 1.249700 $91,570 $70,063 $875.58
CAD BEXAR APPRAISAL DISTRICT 0.000000 $91,570 $85,063 $0.00
Total Tax Rate: 2.552070
Taxes w/Current Exemptions: $1,982.23
Taxes w/o Exemptions: $2,170.87
Improvement / Building
Improvement #1: Residential State Code: A1 Living Area: 1193.0 sqft
Value: $61,750
Type Description Class CD
Exterior Wall Year Built SQFT
LA Living Area F SS 1926 1112.0
OP Attached Open Porch F 1926 24.0
OP Attached Open Porch F 1926 70.0
LA Living Area F 1926 81.0
Improvement #2: Residential State Code: A1 Living Area: sqft Value:
$6,890
Type Description Class CD
Exterior Wall Year Built SQFT
DLA2 Detached Living Area 2 F 288.0
Improvement #3: Residential State Code: A1 Living Area: sqft Value:
$6,890
Type Description Class CD
Exterior Wall Year Built SQFT
DLA1 Detached Living Area 1 F 288.0
Improvement #4: Residential State Code: A1 Living Area: sqft Value:
$2,810
Type Description Class CD
Exterior Wall Year Built SQFT
CPT Detached Carport F 420.0
Land
# Type Description Acres Sqft Eff Front Eff Depth Market Value Prod.
Value
1 RES R/1 Family not Farm Single 0.2066 9000.00 75.00 120.00 $13,230
$0
Roll Value History
Year Improvements Land Market Ag Valuation Appraised HS Cap Assessed
2007 $78,340 $13,230 0 91,570 $6,507 $85,063
2006 $66,380 $13,230 0 79,610 $2,280 $77,330
2005 $57,100 $13,200 0 70,300 $0 $70,300
2004 $57,100 $13,200 0 70,300 $0 $70,300
2003 $59,200 $13,400 0 72,600 $0 $72,600
2002 $58,800 $9,000 0 67,800 $0 $67,800
Deed History - (Last 3 Deed Transactions)
# Deed Date Type Description Grantor Grantee Volume Page
1 9/21/1998 12:00:00 AM Deed Deed TREVINO, GLORIA C 7747 0937


End of Report