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Andre Jute
October 11th 07, 02:13 PM
On Oct 11, 2:19 am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
> On 11 Oct, 04:51, Bret Ludwig > wrote:
>
> Best effort so far on my part is 47 cats with
>
> > 50 rounds of .223 commercial ball in something less than two minutes.
>
> How can you even find 47 feral cats in two minutes?

Bret Ludwig corralled the 47 cats in a cage and shot them through the
fence, like shooting fish in a tank.

This claim also makes a lie of another bit of mealymouthing from this
vicious animal torturer Bret Ludwig. He claims that of the "five or
six thousand" cats he has killed, only " half dozen did not die
instantly and without suffering". That is clearly a lie when in the
next breath Ludwig claims to have killed "47 cats... in... less than
two minutes." That's two and a perhaps a tiny fraction of a second per
cat, to identify a living cat, to aim, to fire, to reload.

It is pretty clear to anyone who has ever handled a firearm that there
were wounded cats screeching in pain dashing here and there, trying to
escape Bret Ludwig's killing cage, reducing the amount of time
available per cat to identify a living cat, to aim, to fire, to
reload, to well under two seconds, a viciious circle. I conclude that
probably more than half those 47 cats were wounded and in pain and
terror for a very long time. I have no problem whatsoever concluding
that Bret Ludwig set it up that way because he enjoys terrifying and
torturing small animals. Imagine the noise of 47 terrified and wounded
cats hurting: music to the ears of a sadist like Bret Ludwig.

Bret Ludwig is a crude butcher and a torturer of defenseless animals.
He tells us so himself if we have but ears to listen. But who listened
to those wounded, terrified cats in their last hour? That's a
conservative estimate of how long it would take to sort out a heap of
47 wounded and dead cats after such a botched butchery, and to kill
those too damaged to move but not yet dead. Ludwig would presumably do
it with the "leather gauntlets and thick towel" he tells us about
elsewhere in these disquieting threads (ask yourself how he knows
these tools so instantly), and you can imagine what slow work that
would be.

Doesn't America have a society for the prevention of cruelty to
animals?

Andre Jute
Cleopatra Midnight Champion III

Bret Ludwig brags about being a mass murderer of cats:
Bret Ludwig > wrote:
>... I've sent five or six thousand to Kitty Valhalla
>... half dozen did not die instantly and without suffering
>... the cartridges ... 7.62x54R is cheap sometimes
>... but the recoil is too much to enjoy a good slay.

Bret Ludwig brags about being a public cocksucker for hire, known as
the Folsome Fellator (though he has since claimed he is merely
misunderstood):
Bret Ludwig > wrote:
> http://www.zombietime.com/folsom_sf_2007_part_1/IMG_6333_blur.JPG

Bret Ludwig is a fascist who wants to control his betters with
violence:
Bret Ludwig > wrote:
> the Nazis would have put you to work at some menial job
> out of the way.

Bret Ludwig brags about being a thief:
Bret Ludwig > wrote to an author whose copyright
work he stole:
"Shut up and do something about it. If you can, punk."

Patrick Turner
October 11th 07, 05:43 PM
Andre Jute wrote:
>
> On Oct 11, 2:19 am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
> > On 11 Oct, 04:51, Bret Ludwig > wrote:
> >
> > Best effort so far on my part is 47 cats with
> >
> > > 50 rounds of .223 commercial ball in something less than two minutes.
> >
> > How can you even find 47 feral cats in two minutes?
>
> Bret Ludwig corralled the 47 cats in a cage and shot them through the
> fence, like shooting fish in a tank.
>
> This claim also makes a lie of another bit of mealymouthing from this
> vicious animal torturer Bret Ludwig. He claims that of the "five or
> six thousand" cats he has killed, only " half dozen did not die
> instantly and without suffering". That is clearly a lie when in the
> next breath Ludwig claims to have killed "47 cats... in... less than
> two minutes." That's two and a perhaps a tiny fraction of a second per
> cat, to identify a living cat, to aim, to fire, to reload.
>
> It is pretty clear to anyone who has ever handled a firearm that there
> were wounded cats screeching in pain dashing here and there, trying to
> escape Bret Ludwig's killing cage, reducing the amount of time
> available per cat to identify a living cat, to aim, to fire, to
> reload, to well under two seconds, a viciious circle. I conclude that
> probably more than half those 47 cats were wounded and in pain and
> terror for a very long time. I have no problem whatsoever concluding
> that Bret Ludwig set it up that way because he enjoys terrifying and
> torturing small animals. Imagine the noise of 47 terrified and wounded
> cats hurting: music to the ears of a sadist like Bret Ludwig.
>
> Bret Ludwig is a crude butcher and a torturer of defenseless animals.
> He tells us so himself if we have but ears to listen. But who listened
> to those wounded, terrified cats in their last hour? That's a
> conservative estimate of how long it would take to sort out a heap of
> 47 wounded and dead cats after such a botched butchery, and to kill
> those too damaged to move but not yet dead. Ludwig would presumably do
> it with the "leather gauntlets and thick towel" he tells us about
> elsewhere in these disquieting threads (ask yourself how he knows
> these tools so instantly), and you can imagine what slow work that
> would be.
>
> Doesn't America have a society for the prevention of cruelty to
> animals?
>
> Andre Jute
> Cleopatra Midnight Champion III

As much as I like domesticated cats, and have owned a few in the past,
I detest wild cats which are responsible for the slaughter of a large
tonnage
of national wild fauna. The last cat I had lived 18 years and only got
one bird,
and never another after I showed serious disapproval. She went on to be
quite a good ratter and mouser.

I detest all wild rabbits, horses, camels, donkeys, buffalo, dogs foxes
and pigs etc, etc which were not native to Oz.

Occasionally we see rumours of some very large cats out there in the
bush of Oz, wild pumas
that could easily kill a large kangaroo, or a sheep, maybe cattle and
horses a but nobody has ever got a good video.

The rabbits have been a very serious pest and have been in plague
numbers....
They live miserable lives and die in pain, and maybe its a wedgetailed
eagle that finalizes their life.

Trying to shoot 47 cats in 2 minutes is obviously a silly brag.
More like an hour would be needed to do the deed, unless you had a
machine gun.

When you think how much agony feral cats cause in the lives of other
animals,
if they don't die instantly, its not a major worry.
Still, I see no need to be cruel when disposing of unwanted animals.

Meanwhile, as the drought here continues on for 4+ years now, kangaroo
numbers have
increased and become an environmentally de-grading animal. There is an
ongoing row between
animal liberationists and the army and local gov which want to do some
serious culling.
The animal ppl have won round one so far.

But as I ride around in the springtime on the bicycle, and occasionally
drive the local country roads,
there are smells and dead kangaroos everywhere, maybe 2 a mile, and many
of these these animals died
lingering and painful deaths after being wounded by a car or truck. The
ones which died instantly
were the lucky ones.
The kangaroos are the main reason panel beaters get so much work....
The animal libbers don't wanna know about this. But not all they say is
silly.
They'd like to see all the caged hens allowed to roam in a yard, and big
changes in feed-lots..

There is much gross suffering imposed on animals unecessarily, and all
in the pursuit of profits.

My father, a cousin, and myself once visited a council tip one night
with a 22
and we shot 50 rats in 1/2 an hour, with one of us using a torch.
We have no idea of how many we wounded, leaving them to die in agony.
We ran out of amo, but my father who was an alderman trying to get the
tip converted to landfill
had a story to tell to the press and council in the following week.

That was 1958. Nowdays if you tried it, you'd get arrested and jailed.

There are of course the cat haters who hate ALL cats, and
cannot make the distinction between a feral cat that kills many wild
animals to survive,
and someone's dear old pet that isn't to blame for anything, as the cats
I owned in the past were.

Cat haters often hate women, police, tourists, back-packers, the taxman,
public servants, and have tattoos and a criminal record.

The outback of Oz is full of them.

One can rave on about who kills what, but frankly the worldwide
slaughter of people
in wars and in unjust regimes at present is somewhat more important than
a few cats.
Not to mention human road deaths, and pll shootinmg other ppl.

But there is no excuse for sadism and cruelty.

My father was also vet, and his routine monday workload meant visiting
the local Pound
and putting down many unwanted dogs and cats. I sometimes wonder why he
was so bad tempered,
but it must have had some effect to look at a row blameless critters in
the eye,
and take their life because nobody can give them any love. Like killing
orphans.

Then there were all the cats and dogs mowed down in car accidents.
We'd often sit down for dinner, the phone would ring, and dad would have
to be off to see a badly
injured animal. Often he'd return with a corpse.

Dad wasn't just bad tempered, but was a very practical *******. Because
he was lumbererd with so many dead animals
from the practice of being a vet, corpse disposal was always a bother,
and cost a lot.
For awhile he tried cremation after building a brick furnace at the rear
of the business.
It was like Aushwitz in full swing at night, and rather hideous, and
with that smell,
but I helped him during school holidays and on some weekends.
One minute he'd be putting an animal down, next he'd be operating on one
to save its life,
or de-sexing it.
We had a huge vegetable garden, and 140 grape vines from which my dad
made 100 gallons of plonk in a good year.
He'd start a trench at one end and dump the bodies in each few days, dig
more trench and bury the days offerings.
Over about 7 years he filled the acre block. No wonder the ground was so
fertile.
And it all helped to pay for my Christian education.

The old method for de-sexing tom cats was to tie the animal in a hessian
bag tightly leaving tail and balls exposed
but limbs restrained from being able to fight back over what happened
next.

Innards of the balls were swiftly removed with a scalpel in about 10
seconds and maybe a stitch inserted,
but I don't remember too many stitches.
The cat made quite a verbal protest of course, but we expected that,
knowing in the fullness of time the
little bit of suffering was only temporary.
To make sure the cat wouldn't **** all over him while the operation took
place,
my dad had a knack for squeezing their bladder first and forcing them to
**** into a pot while growling
a bit before wrapping them up.
No mess.
Of course that kind of method isn't tolerated today either; the animal
must be aneasthetized.
But aneasthetic was expensive....

Girls get circumcized in Africa with appalling brutality. And tribal
customs amoung
Oz natives were rather painful. Be a man, be a woman, take it. Society
of the past
and at present in many parts of the world demands the young sustain pain
to mark their
progress of growing up.

Mum ran over two of our cats, and a dog she owned got killed on the
roads.

Life,pain,death,life,pain,death, and such is life.

Life in the suburbs isn't free of animal pain.
But you wouldn't want to be a farmer if you didn't like seeing pain.

I have amplifiers and speakers brought to me that cannot sing.

They look nervous on the bench. Valves rattle with a shiver, cones quake
with fright....

Out comes my hot soldering iron, side cutters, and long nose pliers.

They ****in well learn to sing alright..... :-)

Patrick Turner.





>
> Bret Ludwig brags about being a mass murderer of cats:
> Bret Ludwig > wrote:
> >... I've sent five or six thousand to Kitty Valhalla
> >... half dozen did not die instantly and without suffering
> >... the cartridges ... 7.62x54R is cheap sometimes
> >... but the recoil is too much to enjoy a good slay.
>
> Bret Ludwig brags about being a public cocksucker for hire, known as
> the Folsome Fellator (though he has since claimed he is merely
> misunderstood):
> Bret Ludwig > wrote:
> > http://www.zombietime.com/folsom_sf_2007_part_1/IMG_6333_blur.JPG
>
> Bret Ludwig is a fascist who wants to control his betters with
> violence:
> Bret Ludwig > wrote:
> > the Nazis would have put you to work at some menial job
> > out of the way.
>
> Bret Ludwig brags about being a thief:
> Bret Ludwig > wrote to an author whose copyright
> work he stole:
> "Shut up and do something about it. If you can, punk."

Andre Jute
October 11th 07, 06:33 PM
HEADLINE
Patrick Turner wrote:
>Cat haters often hate women, police, tourists, back-packers, the taxman,
>public servants, and have tattoos and a criminal record.

Like Bret Ludwig's friends in the Folsome:
Bret Ludwig wrote:
> http://www.zombietime.com/folsom_sf_2007_part_1/IMG_6333_blur.JPG
> http://www.zombietime.com/folsom_sf_2007_part_1/index.php

THE FULL EXCHANGE FOLLOWS

On Oct 11, 9:43 am, Patrick Turner > wrote:
> Andre Jute wrote:
>
> > On Oct 11, 2:19 am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
> > > On 11 Oct, 04:51, Bret Ludwig > wrote:
>
> > > Best effort so far on my part is 47 cats with
>
> > > > 50 rounds of .223 commercial ball in something less than two minutes.
>
> > > How can you even find 47 feral cats in two minutes?
>
> > Bret Ludwig corralled the 47 cats in a cage and shot them through the
> > fence, like shooting fish in a tank.
>
> > This claim also makes a lie of another bit of mealymouthing from this
> > vicious animal torturer Bret Ludwig. He claims that of the "five or
> > six thousand" cats he has killed, only " half dozen did not die
> > instantly and without suffering". That is clearly a lie when in the
> > next breath Ludwig claims to have killed "47 cats... in... less than
> > two minutes." That's two and a perhaps a tiny fraction of a second per
> > cat, to identify a living cat, to aim, to fire, to reload.
>
> > It is pretty clear to anyone who has ever handled a firearm that there
> > were wounded cats screeching in pain dashing here and there, trying to
> > escape Bret Ludwig's killing cage, reducing the amount of time
> > available per cat to identify a living cat, to aim, to fire, to
> > reload, to well under two seconds, a viciious circle. I conclude that
> > probably more than half those 47 cats were wounded and in pain and
> > terror for a very long time. I have no problem whatsoever concluding
> > that Bret Ludwig set it up that way because he enjoys terrifying and
> > torturing small animals. Imagine the noise of 47 terrified and wounded
> > cats hurting: music to the ears of a sadist like Bret Ludwig.
>
> > Bret Ludwig is a crude butcher and a torturer of defenseless animals.
> > He tells us so himself if we have but ears to listen. But who listened
> > to those wounded, terrified cats in their last hour? That's a
> > conservative estimate of how long it would take to sort out a heap of
> > 47 wounded and dead cats after such a botched butchery, and to kill
> > those too damaged to move but not yet dead. Ludwig would presumably do
> > it with the "leather gauntlets and thick towel" he tells us about
> > elsewhere in these disquieting threads (ask yourself how he knows
> > these tools so instantly), and you can imagine what slow work that
> > would be.
>
> > Doesn't America have a society for the prevention of cruelty to
> > animals?
>
> > Andre Jute
> > Cleopatra Midnight Champion III
> >
> > Bret Ludwig brags about being a mass murderer of cats:
> > Bret Ludwig > wrote:
> > >... I've sent five or six thousand to Kitty Valhalla
> > >... half dozen did not die instantly and without suffering
> > >... the cartridges ... 7.62x54R is cheap sometimes
> > >... but the recoil is too much to enjoy a good slay.
>
> > Bret Ludwig brags about being a public cocksucker for hire, known as
> > the Folsome Fellator (though he has since claimed he is merely
> > misunderstood):
> > Bret Ludwig > wrote:
> > >http://www.zombietime.com/folsom_sf_2007_part_1/IMG_6333_blur.JPG
>
> > Bret Ludwig is a fascist who wants to control his betters with
> > violence:
> > Bret Ludwig > wrote:
> > > the Nazis would have put you to work at some menial job
> > > out of the way.
>
> > Bret Ludwig brags about being a thief:
> > Bret Ludwig > wrote to an author whose copyright
> > work he stole:
> > >Shut up and do something about it. If you can, punk.
>
>
> As much as I like domesticated cats, and have owned a few in the past,
> I detest wild cats which are responsible for the slaughter of a large
> tonnage
> of national wild fauna. The last cat I had lived 18 years and only got
> one bird,
> and never another after I showed serious disapproval. She went on to be
> quite a good ratter and mouser.

Our cats are kept in at night and only let out into the garden in
daytime. If they catch a bat or anything, we express severe
displeasure.

> I detest all wild rabbits, horses, camels, donkeys, buffalo, dogs foxes
> and pigs etc, etc which were not native to Oz.

Neither are people, of course. The aborigines came from Asia, the
white folk from Europe.

> Occasionally we see rumours of some very large cats out there in the
> bush of Oz, wild pumas
> that could easily kill a large kangaroo, or a sheep, maybe cattle and
> horses a but nobody has ever got a good video.

I drove all the way around the coast of Australia once and in six
months saw remarkably few animals except of course the kangaroos.

> The rabbits have been a very serious pest and have been in plague
> numbers....
> They live miserable lives and die in pain, and maybe its a wedgetailed
> eagle that finalizes their life.

There are some hares in a lane up here that play chicken with my bike.

> Trying to shoot 47 cats in 2 minutes is obviously a silly brag.
> More like an hour would be needed to do the deed, unless you had a
> machine gun.
>
> When you think how much agony feral cats cause in the lives of other
> animals,
> if they don't die instantly, its not a major worry.

Australia may have a problem with feral cats, and no doubt the proper
authorities will deal with it humanely. There is no proof that there
is a plague of feral cats where Bret Ludwig lives. On hand of his free
and easy way with other people's property, I would not be surprised if
he just shoots people's pet cats and tries to pretend they're feral to
cover up his crimes.

> Still, I see no need to be cruel when disposing of unwanted animals.
>
> Meanwhile, as the drought here continues on for 4+ years now, kangaroo
> numbers have
> increased and become an environmentally de-grading animal. There is an
> ongoing row between
> animal liberationists and the army and local gov which want to do some
> serious culling.
> The animal ppl have won round one so far.
>
> But as I ride around in the springtime on the bicycle, and occasionally
> drive the local country roads,
> there are smells and dead kangaroos everywhere, maybe 2 a mile, and many
> of these these animals died
> lingering and painful deaths after being wounded by a car or truck. The
> ones which died instantly
> were the lucky ones.
> The kangaroos are the main reason panel beaters get so much work....
> The animal libbers don't wanna know about this. But not all they say is
> silly.
> They'd like to see all the caged hens allowed to roam in a yard, and big
> changes in feed-lots..
>
> There is much gross suffering imposed on animals unecessarily, and all
> in the pursuit of profits.
>
> My father, a cousin, and myself once visited a council tip one night
> with a 22
> and we shot 50 rats in 1/2 an hour, with one of us using a torch.
> We have no idea of how many we wounded, leaving them to die in agony.
> We ran out of amo, but my father who was an alderman trying to get the
> tip converted to landfill
> had a story to tell to the press and council in the following week.
>
> That was 1958. Nowdays if you tried it, you'd get arrested and jailed.
>
> There are of course the cat haters who hate ALL cats, and
> cannot make the distinction between a feral cat that kills many wild
> animals to survive,
> and someone's dear old pet that isn't to blame for anything, as the cats
> I owned in the past were.

Ludwig to a T.

> Cat haters often hate women, police, tourists, back-packers, the taxman,
> public servants, and have tattoos and a criminal record.

Bret Ludwig to a T.

> The outback of Oz is full of them.

And the Folsome:
Bret Ludwig wrote:
> http://www.zombietime.com/folsom_sf_2007_part_1/IMG_6333_blur.JPG
> http://www.zombietime.com/folsom_sf_2007_part_1/index.php

> One can rave on about who kills what, but frankly the worldwide
> slaughter of people
> in wars and in unjust regimes at present is somewhat more important than
> a few cats.

Get a grip, Patrick. Five or six *thousand* cats, by the scumball Bret
Ludwig's own account? How long before he starts shooting people, do
you think?

> Not to mention human road deaths, and pll shootinmg other ppl.
>
> But there is no excuse for sadism and cruelty.

I note that some parties on RAT are clustering protectively around
Ludwig, as if to say, it doesn't matter that he is a bully, a thief
and a sadist, he's into tubes. That's crap, of course. Ludwig is just
another bully, thief and sadist, a cat torturer who should be
incarcerated.

> My father was also vet, and his routine monday workload meant visiting
> the local Pound
> and putting down many unwanted dogs and cats. I sometimes wonder why he
> was so bad tempered,
> but it must have had some effect to look at a row blameless critters in
> the eye,
> and take their life because nobody can give them any love. Like killing
> orphans.
>
> Then there were all the cats and dogs mowed down in car accidents.
> We'd often sit down for dinner, the phone would ring, and dad would have
> to be off to see a badly
> injured animal. Often he'd return with a corpse.
>
> Dad wasn't just bad tempered, but was a very practical *******. Because
> he was lumbererd with so many dead animals
> from the practice of being a vet, corpse disposal was always a bother,
> and cost a lot.
> For awhile he tried cremation after building a brick furnace at the rear
> of the business.
> It was like Aushwitz in full swing at night, and rather hideous, and
> with that smell,
> but I helped him during school holidays and on some weekends.
> One minute he'd be putting an animal down, next he'd be operating on one
> to save its life,
> or de-sexing it.
> We had a huge vegetable garden, and 140 grape vines from which my dad
> made 100 gallons of plonk in a good year.
> He'd start a trench at one end and dump the bodies in each few days, dig
> more trench and bury the days offerings.
> Over about 7 years he filled the acre block. No wonder the ground was so
> fertile.
> And it all helped to pay for my Christian education.

I like the wine better than the crematiorium!

> The old method for de-sexing tom cats was to tie the animal in a hessian
> bag tightly leaving tail and balls exposed
> but limbs restrained from being able to fight back over what happened
> next.
>
> Innards of the balls were swiftly removed with a scalpel in about 10
> seconds and maybe a stitch inserted,
> but I don't remember too many stitches.
> The cat made quite a verbal protest of course, but we expected that,
> knowing in the fullness of time the
> little bit of suffering was only temporary.
> To make sure the cat wouldn't **** all over him while the operation took
> place,
> my dad had a knack for squeezing their bladder first and forcing them to
> **** into a pot while growling
> a bit before wrapping them up.
> No mess.
> Of course that kind of method isn't tolerated today either; the animal
> must be aneasthetized.
> But aneasthetic was expensive....

Reminds me of the farm boy describing the two brick method of
heifering young bulls to a sweet young thing in the city.

"But doesn't it hurt?" she asked compassionately.

"Only if you don't keep your thumbs clear," he said.

You think he got lucky that night?


> Girls get circumcized in Africa with appalling brutality. And tribal
> customs amoung
> Oz natives were rather painful. Be a man, be a woman, take it. Society
> of the past
> and at present in many parts of the world demands the young sustain pain
> to mark their
> progress of growing up.
>
> Mum ran over two of our cats, and a dog she owned got killed on the
> roads.
>
> Life,pain,death,life,pain,death, and such is life.
>
> Life in the suburbs isn't free of animal pain.
> But you wouldn't want to be a farmer if you didn't like seeing pain.
>
> I have amplifiers and speakers brought to me that cannot sing.
>
> They look nervous on the bench. Valves rattle with a shiver, cones quake
> with fright....
>
> Out comes my hot soldering iron, side cutters, and long nose pliers.
>
> They ****in well learn to sing alright..... :-)
>
> Patrick Turner.

Don't give Ludwig any ideas.

Andre Jute

Peter Wieck
October 11th 07, 11:18 PM
On Oct 11, 12:33 pm, Andre Jute > wrote:

> I note that some parties on RAT are clustering protectively around
> Ludwig, as if to say, it doesn't matter that he is a bully, a thief
> and a sadist, he's into tubes. That's crap, of course. Ludwig is just
> another bully, thief and sadist, a cat torturer who should be
> incarcerated.


Oh, I don't think this is true at all. Mr. Ludwig is pretty
universally reviled and for very good reason.

However, he does know more about tubes, electronics and such-like than
you do, likely has forgotten much more than you ever will know. For
all that, he is still a malicious, hollow little creature. What it
gets down to is that the two of you are so much alike (pretentious,
posturing, nasty, hollow little creature vs. malicious, angry, hollow
little creature) that you *must* play out your vicious little games
for all to see. I clean up better than either of you when I run the
dogs, but you are so blind in your pretentions (the two of you) that,
again, you *must* engage each other.

Both of you really do need a life. Neither of you appear to have found
one, or even to be close to that state.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Bret Ludwig
October 12th 07, 12:58 AM
>
> Innards of the balls were swiftly removed with a scalpel in about 10
> seconds and maybe a stitch inserted,
> but I don't remember too many stitches.
> The cat made quite a verbal protest of course, but we expected that,
> knowing in the fullness of time the
> little bit of suffering was only temporary.
> To make sure the cat wouldn't **** all over him while the operation took
> place,
> my dad had a knack for squeezing their bladder first and forcing them to
> **** into a pot while growling
> a bit before wrapping them up.
> No mess.
> Of course that kind of method isn't tolerated today either; the animal
> must be aneasthetized.
> But aneasthetic was expensive....

Ether and chloroform are available in tank car quantities at roughly
gasoline prices. How much does it take to put a cat under?

>
> Girls get circumcized in Africa with appalling brutality. And tribal
> customs amoung
> Oz natives were rather painful. Be a man, be a woman, take it. Society
> of the past
> and at present in many parts of the world demands the young sustain pain
> to mark their
> progress of growing up.

They don't get circumcized, they get clitoridectomied. It's a brutal
thing. In better times Western societies dealt with it by
horsewhipping the perpetrators in public, but that was racist,
fascist, imperialist, ad nauseum. So the practice resumed.

I think the abbos should be all sterilized (yes, use anesthetic) and
allowed to live out their lives in comfort. Their IQ is around 55 on
average. They will simply never fit in a Western society. That
sounds harsh, maybe it is, but in the long run it is the least
suffering for everyone.

Bret Ludwig
October 12th 07, 01:01 AM
> Ludwig to a T.
>
> > Cat haters often hate women, police, tourists, back-packers, the taxman,
> > public servants, and have tattoos and a criminal record.

I have no tats, my next door neighbor is a cop and former game
warden, pay my taxes, never been convicted of anything but speeding,
and get along with females reasonably well.

I do look at backpackers with a gimlet eye though.

Still, **** poor averages. Buy a new crystal ball.

Clyde Slick
October 12th 07, 02:31 AM
On 11 Oct, 19:58, Bret Ludwig > wrote:

>
> They don't get circumcized, they get clitoridectomied. l
.Their IQ is around 55 on
> average. They will simply never fit in a Western society. That
> sounds harsh, maybe it is, but in the long run it is the least
> suffering for everyone.

If they could only manage to up their average IQ to 60,
maybe they could also do brain surgery.

Andre Jute
October 12th 07, 04:41 AM
On Oct 11, 4:58 pm, Bret Ludwig > wrote:
>
> I think the abbos [[[Ludwig is talking about Australian Aborigines]]] should
> be all sterilized (yes, use anesthetic) and
> allowed to live out their lives in comfort. Their IQ is around 55 on
> average. They will simply never fit in a Western society. That
> sounds harsh, maybe it is, but in the long run it is the least
> suffering for everyone.

Anyone ever tell you that you are a fascist and a sociopath, Bret
Ludwig? Or do you consider that flattery?

Bret Ludwig > also wrote:
> the Nazis would have put you to work at some menial job
> out of the way.

God, you're one sorry excuse for a human being, Bret Ludwig. You and
Sanjit Gandhi both.

Andre Jute
Scumbuster

Bret Ludwig brags about being a mass murderer of cats:
Bret Ludwig > wrote:
>... I've sent five or six thousand to Kitty Valhalla
>... half dozen did not die instantly and without suffering
>... the cartridges ... 7.62x54R is cheap sometimes
>... but the recoil is too much to enjoy a good slay.

Bret Ludwig brags about being a
[[[URL and photo of Ludwig's disgusting sex life removed for public
decency]]]

Bret Ludwig is a fascist who wants to control his betters with
violence:
Bret Ludwig > wrote:
> the Nazis would have put you to work at some menial job
> out of the way.

Bret Ludwig brags about being a thief:
Bret Ludwig > wrote to an author whose copyright
work he stole:
>Shut up and do something about it. If you can, punk.

Bret Ludwig
October 12th 07, 04:56 AM
Andrew blows out of his fundament:

>>"Bret Ludwig is a fascist who wants to control his betters with
violence:

Bret Ludwig > wrote:
> the Nazis would have put you to work at some menial job
> out of the way. '<<


Horrid, that. Worse than drawing and quartering.

George M. Middius
October 12th 07, 05:32 AM
Bratzi puffs up his scrawny nerd's chest.

> > the Nazis would have put you to work at some menial job
> > out of the way.

> Horrid, that. Worse than drawing and quartering.

In your fantasies, are you a tall, blond, blue-eyed Aryan son of the
Fatherland, as strong as an Olympian and smothered by the affections of a
thousand fair maidens? Just asking.

Jenn[_2_]
October 12th 07, 05:35 AM
In article >,
George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:

> Bratzi puffs up his scrawny nerd's chest.
>
> > > the Nazis would have put you to work at some menial job
> > > out of the way.
>
> > Horrid, that. Worse than drawing and quartering.
>
> In your fantasies, are you a tall, blond, blue-eyed Aryan son of the
> Fatherland, as strong as an Olympian and smothered by the affections of a
> thousand fair maidens?

And beating Jesse Owens?

Jon Yaeger
October 12th 07, 05:59 AM
in article
,
Jenn at wrote on 10/12/07 12:35 AM:

> In article >,
> George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:
>
>> Bratzi puffs up his scrawny nerd's chest.
>>
>>>> the Nazis would have put you to work at some menial job
>>>> out of the way.
>>
>>> Horrid, that. Worse than drawing and quartering.
>>
>> In your fantasies, are you a tall, blond, blue-eyed Aryan son of the
>> Fatherland, as strong as an Olympian and smothered by the affections of a
>> thousand fair maidens?
>
> And beating Jesse Owens?


Thank you Jenn, for your insightful and helpful post.

Jenn[_2_]
October 12th 07, 06:04 AM
In article >,
Jon Yaeger > wrote:

> in article
> ,
> Jenn at wrote on 10/12/07 12:35 AM:
>
> > In article >,
> > George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:
> >
> >> Bratzi puffs up his scrawny nerd's chest.
> >>
> >>>> the Nazis would have put you to work at some menial job
> >>>> out of the way.
> >>
> >>> Horrid, that. Worse than drawing and quartering.
> >>
> >> In your fantasies, are you a tall, blond, blue-eyed Aryan son of the
> >> Fatherland, as strong as an Olympian and smothered by the affections of a
> >> thousand fair maidens?
> >
> > And beating Jesse Owens?
>
>
> Thank you Jenn, for your insightful and helpful post.

I try to help.

Jon Yaeger
October 12th 07, 06:08 AM
in article
,
Jenn at wrote on 10/12/07 1:04 AM:

> In article >,
> Jon Yaeger > wrote:
>
>> in article
>> ,
>> Jenn at wrote on 10/12/07 12:35 AM:
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bratzi puffs up his scrawny nerd's chest.
>>>>
>>>>>> the Nazis would have put you to work at some menial job
>>>>>> out of the way.
>>>>
>>>>> Horrid, that. Worse than drawing and quartering.
>>>>
>>>> In your fantasies, are you a tall, blond, blue-eyed Aryan son of the
>>>> Fatherland, as strong as an Olympian and smothered by the affections of a
>>>> thousand fair maidens?
>>>
>>> And beating Jesse Owens?
>>
>>
>> Thank you Jenn, for your insightful and helpful post.
>
> I try to help.

Oh yeah, it really shows. I don't know what I'd do if you didn't share your
esoterica with RAT. Maybe I'd be so bored I'd have to surf R.A.O.
Actually, I can't imagine being that bored . . .

Say, Jenn, do you every fool with tubes?

Jon

October 12th 07, 06:27 AM
On Oct 11, 11:59 pm, Jon Yaeger > wrote:
> in article
> ,
> Jenn at wrote on 10/12/07 12:35 AM:
>
> > In article >,
> > George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:
>
> >> Bratzi puffs up his scrawny nerd's chest.
>
> >>>> the Nazis would have put you to work at some menial job
> >>>> out of the way.
>
> >>> Horrid, that. Worse than drawing and quartering.
>
> >> In your fantasies, are you a tall, blond, blue-eyed Aryan son of the
> >> Fatherland, as strong as an Olympian and smothered by the affections of a
> >> thousand fair maidens?
>
> > And beating Jesse Owens?
>
> Thank you Jenn, for your insightful and helpful post.

I have no aspirations to athletic excellence, and no one questions
that Owens was a great athlete.

Not even Hitler.

http://hnn.us/articles/571.html

Jenn[_2_]
October 12th 07, 06:46 AM
In article >,
Jon Yaeger > wrote:

> in article
> ,
> Jenn at wrote on 10/12/07 1:04 AM:
>
> > In article >,
> > Jon Yaeger > wrote:
> >
> >> in article
> >> ,
> >> Jenn at wrote on 10/12/07 12:35 AM:
> >>
> >>> In article >,
> >>> George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Bratzi puffs up his scrawny nerd's chest.
> >>>>
> >>>>>> the Nazis would have put you to work at some menial job
> >>>>>> out of the way.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Horrid, that. Worse than drawing and quartering.
> >>>>
> >>>> In your fantasies, are you a tall, blond, blue-eyed Aryan son of the
> >>>> Fatherland, as strong as an Olympian and smothered by the affections of a
> >>>> thousand fair maidens?
> >>>
> >>> And beating Jesse Owens?
> >>
> >>
> >> Thank you Jenn, for your insightful and helpful post.
> >
> > I try to help.
>
> Oh yeah, it really shows. I don't know what I'd do if you didn't share your
> esoterica with RAT. Maybe I'd be so bored I'd have to surf R.A.O.
> Actually, I can't imagine being that bored . . .

Sorry, I didn't notice the crossposting.

Patrick Turner
October 12th 07, 02:14 PM
Andre Jute wrote:
>
> HEADLINE
> Patrick Turner wrote:
> >Cat haters often hate women, police, tourists, back-packers, the taxman,
> >public servants, and have tattoos and a criminal record.
>
> Like Bret Ludwig's friends in the Folsome:
> Bret Ludwig wrote:
> > http://www.zombietime.com/folsom_sf_2007_part_1/IMG_6333_blur.JPG
> > http://www.zombietime.com/folsom_sf_2007_part_1/index.php


Oh Dear, I think I have to add what I forgot:-

Cat haters also hate gays, lesbians, muslims, jews, hippies, leftists,
greenies and all other minority
groups. Most cat haters hardly like anyone.

THEREFORE, the zombietime image referred to above as a friend of Bret
isn't a very
good example of a cat hater. Most happy nice mannered harmless
un-tattoed cock sucking gay guys
as shown in the above .jpg image quite like pussy providing it has 4
legs.
The feminine side of their personality allows some mental bond with the
feline mind, or cat mind.

Bret might not be your choice for r.a.t man of the year award, but
methinks its a trifle over the top to allege too much about his friends.

Although completely hetero myself, I have nothing against gays per se,
And if the world had 50% gay folks, the population growth would be
nicely slowed right down
and the greenhouse effect might be less likely to sweep our species away
during the next hundred years.



>
> THE FULL EXCHANGE FOLLOWS
>
> On Oct 11, 9:43 am, Patrick Turner > wrote:
> > Andre Jute wrote:
> >


Snip for brevity,

> > The last cat I had lived 18 years and only got
> > one bird,
> > and never another after I showed serious disapproval. She went on to be
> > quite a good ratter and mouser.
>
> Our cats are kept in at night and only let out into the garden in
> daytime. If they catch a bat or anything, we express severe
> displeasure.

When I had a cat, or two, they preferred being inside at night.


>
> > I detest all wild rabbits, horses, camels, donkeys, buffalo, dogs foxes
> > and pigs etc, etc which were not native to Oz.
>
> Neither are people, of course. The aborigines came from Asia, the
> white folk from Europe.

Well one could say that, and then say nobody is native to anywhere.

Are the Irish natives to Ireland?

There is evidence habitation by Homo Sapiens in Oz began about
3 ice ages ago, or 60,000 years.

Everyone comes from somewhere, and "nativeness" is an expression of the
length
of time one's ancestors have lived nearby.

The Europeans who came to settle in Oz are the invaders, and non native
peoples.

I do not imply anything moral or political by saying that, but
nature is nature, and because of the tendency of mankind to wander about
for
one reason or another, white folks gathered here from crowded Europe and
wanted more space.

As i see it, everyone in the world has equal rights to land, air, sea,
water, forest and every damn thing.

The natives of any land don't have any special rights.

( this is a mightily abused idea used to justify all sorts of wars and
mahem )

So where you have a land nearly the size of the US, and an almost
invisible population,
it was only natural for white folks who had lived in crowded places
elsewhere to arrive and say
"Move over buster! I'm movin in!!"
Locals rarely like moving or changeing, or sharing, so out comes the
gun, poison for the waterholes,
and bang bang! "get the message now?"

The Australian Aboriginies are still mightily upset how "their" land was
robbed from them,
and how their numbers were decimated by white folk's diseases and white
hunting parties.

White folks have a lot to be ashamed about.



>
> > Occasionally we see rumours of some very large cats out there in the
> > bush of Oz, wild pumas
> > that could easily kill a large kangaroo, or a sheep, maybe cattle and
> > horses a but nobody has ever got a good video.
>
> I drove all the way around the coast of Australia once and in six
> months saw remarkably few animals except of course the kangaroos.

Most Oz animals are shy retiring types.
Search for a platypus, and you'll never see one driving around Oz.

One has to go bush, camp silently awhile, and then you begin to see the
remnants
of Oz fauna.

There used to be 20dB more fauna. Oz has the record for exterminating
"native" species.


>
> > The rabbits have been a very serious pest and have been in plague
> > numbers....
> > They live miserable lives and die in pain, and maybe its a wedgetailed
> > eagle that finalizes their life.
>
> There are some hares in a lane up here that play chicken with my bike.
>
> > Trying to shoot 47 cats in 2 minutes is obviously a silly brag.
> > More like an hour would be needed to do the deed, unless you had a
> > machine gun.
> >
> > When you think how much agony feral cats cause in the lives of other
> > animals,
> > if they don't die instantly, its not a major worry.
>
> Australia may have a problem with feral cats, and no doubt the proper
> authorities will deal with it humanely.

There is NO nationally successful program to rid Oz of any of its pests
including cats.
Diseases were invented for the rabbits, and myxomotosis wiped out
millions of rabbits;
they died horrible slow deaths. Then resistance bred up.
Calcivirus has suposedly been successful, but parts of where I ride have
huge infestations of
rabbits in huge wild warrens, a true fox's delight, except its all
within 4kM of the city centre
and traffic mows down the foxes...

Cane toads are a major pest in the north, killing any animal who eats
one.


> There is no proof that there
> is a plague of feral cats where Bret Ludwig lives. On hand of his free
> and easy way with other people's property, I would not be surprised if
> he just shoots people's pet cats and tries to pretend they're feral to
> cover up his crimes.

I have no good idea about what sort of situation exists around Bret.

There is a devil in all of us, and sometimes the less you know of it,
the better it is.

I am at r.a.t for the vacuum tubes, and I really can't know how many cat
haters are around.
Lord Valve has nothing good to say of felines, but so what? I don't feel
a need to
wage a war of words against man who hates cats.

Snip for brev...

> > There are of course the cat haters who hate ALL cats, and
> > cannot make the distinction between a feral cat that kills many wild
> > animals to survive,
> > and someone's dear old pet that isn't to blame for anything, as the cats
> > I owned in the past were.
>
> Ludwig to a T.

Perhaps.



>
> > One can rave on about who kills what, but frankly the worldwide
> > slaughter of people
> > in wars and in unjust regimes at present is somewhat more important than
> > a few cats.
>
> Get a grip, Patrick. Five or six *thousand* cats, by the scumball Bret
> Ludwig's own account? How long before he starts shooting people, do
> you think?

I have no idea. Why get upset about Bret? George Bush leaves anything
Bret allegedly does in the shade.

George went and stole a whole ****in nation full of
hard-to-get-along-with-muslims.

He did it for all of us, you, and me, to secure the remaining dwindling
oil supply.

He lied to us while he stole the nation of Iraq. Ppl in the west will
eventually forgive him,
as long as he can't be blamed for starting WW3, or something that might
worry US folks just a little bit,
like sending up oil prices by 12dB.

Millions of muslims won't forgive or forget George, and because of
George's interference with a well functioning
ruthless disgusting dictatorship, thousands of extra Iraqis have died,
and 4 millions moved out
of their own country to others to live as refugees in povety.
George makes Bret look like a saint.

I once intervened in a domestic argument between a couple I shared house
with.
"For goodness sake" I asked, "why ague over 3 lousy dollars? pick an
argument
over something worthwhile, $300 at least..."

Astonishingly, they both looked at me, then each other, and shut up.

> > Not to mention human road deaths, and pll shootinmg other ppl.
> >
> > But there is no excuse for sadism and cruelty.
>
> I note that some parties on RAT are clustering protectively around
> Ludwig, as if to say, it doesn't matter that he is a bully, a thief
> and a sadist, he's into tubes.

Everything matters Andre. But you cannot change people.
The best one can hope for is that they see your point at least.

Copyright abuse won't change unless the abusers are chased after
with legal powers. That won't be me.

I have not the time to conduct campaigns against ppl I find whose habits
are not perfect.

> That's crap, of course. Ludwig is just
> another bully, thief and sadist, a cat torturer who should be
> incarcerated.

I would indeed have a truly miserable life if I went around
trying to change the world. Its a largely very evil place.

I have no idea what all my customers get up to in their daily lives.
One customer recently murdered his father. He'd been a schizophrenic for
25 years
and had been on medications since 1983 when he would have been about 20.
In his attempt to "go sraight" and do it right, normal, without the mind
numbing
drugs, he of course didn't see his own demon, and in a brief rage
stabbed his father
25 times with a kitchen knife. He washed the knife carefully, and put it
back in the drawer.
His old mother, now a widow, was truly traumatized....

Should I have had no dealings with this man? Trade is just trade.
I once worked for a guy building a house who mentioned one day how much
he loved his daughter
of 13, and how he liked to talk to her sitting on her bed....
Months after I'd finished the job that girl's suicide was reported in
the local newspaper.
I thought it likely that he'd been rooting his daughter, and perhaps
that's why she quit life.

But I couldn't be certain.


snip f b...

> > We had a huge vegetable garden, and 140 grape vines from which my dad
> > made 100 gallons of plonk in a good year.
> > He'd start a trench at one end and dump the bodies in each few days, dig
> > more trench and bury the days offerings.
> > Over about 7 years he filled the acre block. No wonder the ground was so
> > fertile.
> > And it all helped to pay for my Christian education.
>
> I like the wine better than the crematiorium!

My father was a trained professional but he didn't study modern vigneron
practices where chemistry is such a large part. He made wine along the
trial and error
method. We lived where 100 inches of rain per annun wasn't unusual,
and most of it fell just before and after grape picking time.
So his wines were pretty awful, sour, maybe all the dead cats and dogs
in the underworld
are laughing at him.....

Two bottles of his plonk plus a joint were enough to render me quite
insane for a few hours.

I was told by someone, "Don't come back here with that bottled ****in
poison,
and do try to behave better in future if you do come back!"

The someone was a wild person himself, so I musta been quite over the
top.
But never agressive, just a fuknidiot.

OK. I never drank too much again.

And I didn't.

How I stayed alive on the Harley D I had at the time remains a complete
mystery.

sfb,


> > Of course that kind of method isn't tolerated today either; the animal
> > must be aneasthetized.
> > But aneasthetic was expensive....
>
> Reminds me of the farm boy describing the two brick method of
> heifering young bulls to a sweet young thing in the city.
>
> "But doesn't it hurt?" she asked compassionately.
>
> "Only if you don't keep your thumbs clear," he said.
>
> You think he got lucky that night?

I think you have it wrong; the two brick method was used in Syria to
make eunuchs
to guard the harem.

The word eunuch comes from "you knock two bricks together onto dangling
testicles
and Allah performs a miracle".

>
> Don't give Ludwig any ideas.

He's more than capable of dreaming up his own ideas...

Patrick Turner.


> Andre Jute

Bret Ludwig
October 12th 07, 11:21 PM
I love animals. In their place, the wild, or in human affairs when
managed properly.

Songbirds make the summer more pleasant. In the US, songbird
populations have been decimated by starlings, a pest species imported
by misguided Shakespeare fans 150 years ago, as well as feral cats.
So I help nature by thinning out these alien undesireable species.

I have never harmed anyone's pet cat, except one that crawled into
the fan shroud of my old International Harvester pickup some years
back. I didn't know it was there so when I started the engine it was
shredded. I felt bad about it, but the damage was done.

Ferals I have shot and shot and shot. it hasn't made a lot of
difference so in the future I intend to try this new Australian
method, which is to put a chemical in sausages that does little harm
to most species but which causes felids to fall asleep and die
painlessly. Hopefully this will prove the answer. At least the
songbirds hope so.

George M. Middius
October 13th 07, 01:09 AM
Poor Bratzi is misunderstood.

> Ferals I have shot and shot and shot.

All for the good of society, of course.

Clyde Slick
October 13th 07, 02:38 AM
On 12 Oct, 18:21, Bret Ludwig > meant to write


> I love animals. In their place, the wild, or in human affairs when
> managed properly.
>
> Aryans make the summer more pleasant. In the US, songbird
> populations have been decimated by Gypsys, a pest species imported
> by misguided Shakespeare fans 150 years ago, as well as feral Jews.
> So I help nature by thinning out these alien undesireable races.

>

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!
October 13th 07, 02:46 AM
On Oct 12, 5:21 pm, Bret Ludwig > wrote:
> I love animals. In their place, the wild, or in human affairs when
> managed properly.

So 2pid has gone beyond simple ass-lickings and is now 'managing'
animals.

Those poor critters.

Bret Ludwig
October 13th 07, 11:07 PM
On Oct 12, 8:46 pm, Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!
> wrote:
> On Oct 12, 5:21 pm, Bret Ludwig > wrote:
>
> > I love animals. In their place, the wild, or in human affairs when
> > managed properly.
>
> So 2pid has gone beyond simple ass-lickings and is now 'managing'
> animals.
>
> Those poor critters.

Man has done that for thousands of years and could not have survived
otherwise. You must be 3pid, for your totla lack of historical sense.

George M. Middius
October 13th 07, 11:21 PM
Bratzi identifies another inferior person.

> > So 2pid has gone beyond simple ass-lickings and is now 'managing'
> > animals.

> Man has done that for thousands of years and could not have survived
> otherwise. You must be 3pid, for your totla lack of historical sense.

Just put him on the list with all the others to be exterminated.

Clyde Slick
October 13th 07, 11:29 PM
On 13 Oct, 18:21, George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net>
wrote:
> Bratzi identifies another inferior person.

> Just put him on the list with all the others to be exterminated.

behind the Jews and blacks, but ahead of the gypsys, gays, Mexcans and
feral cats.

Warm Blue Glow
October 14th 07, 05:27 AM
On Oct 13, 5:07 pm, Bret Ludwig > wrote:
> On Oct 12, 8:46 pm, Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!
>
> > wrote:
> > On Oct 12, 5:21 pm, Bret Ludwig > wrote:
>
> > > I love animals. In their place, the wild, or in human affairs when
> > > managed properly.
>
> > So 2pid has gone beyond simple ass-lickings and is now 'managing'
> > animals.
>
> > Those poor critters.
>
> Man has done that for thousands of years and could not have survived
> otherwise. You must be 3pid, for your totla lack of historical sense.

And man slept with his daughters in the Bible.

Tell 2pid to quit deriving sexual pleasure from the animals he
'manages'. We haven't had to do that to survive for several
generations.