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Newbie[_2_]
October 22nd 07, 10:38 PM
To make a long story short, I am worrying about whether wood mulch
(Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot to be precise) is safe for cats to run
on or jump onto? Or small metal bird baths placed on that mulch?

Nothing bad has happened to our knowledge. But a neighbor's cat
returned with a serious limp in one of the front leg. She'll heal, but
this got him and me talking that while there isn't much we can do about
the outside world, we should cat proofing our yards more consciously.

Exhibit 1: My wife has created about a 60 feet long strip of wooden
mulch along the fence because grass doesn't grow easily here. Cats love
to walk on the mulch, even jump on it from the fence. (As mentioned, it
is Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot.)

Now, I tried walking barefoot on it for a few feet and realized it
wasn't like normal ground. You have thousands of wood chips, some with
sharp edges, all at random angle. I felt a lot of sharp points and
edges. Walking gently is one thing, but if a cat ran or, worse, jumped
from a fence, she could land on a sharp chip the wrong way and get
hurt?

Exhibit 2: We have an 18" heavy iron bird bath. It looks pretty but my
fear is it easy to trip. Especially when it is sitting on an uneven
ground like the mulch or even grass. Cats are naturally curious, this
is just the roght height for them to try playing or climbing, and
having it fall on them.

Would appreciate any experience you have guys may have here about
saftey of cats running/jumping on wood chips, and playing near bird
baths.

William Graham
October 22nd 07, 11:34 PM
"Newbie" > wrote in message
...
> To make a long story short, I am worrying about whether wood mulch
> (Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot to be precise) is safe for cats to run
> on or jump onto? Or small metal bird baths placed on that mulch?
>
> Nothing bad has happened to our knowledge. But a neighbor's cat
> returned with a serious limp in one of the front leg. She'll heal, but
> this got him and me talking that while there isn't much we can do about
> the outside world, we should cat proofing our yards more consciously.
>
> Exhibit 1: My wife has created about a 60 feet long strip of wooden
> mulch along the fence because grass doesn't grow easily here. Cats love
> to walk on the mulch, even jump on it from the fence. (As mentioned, it
> is Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot.)
>
> Now, I tried walking barefoot on it for a few feet and realized it
> wasn't like normal ground. You have thousands of wood chips, some with
> sharp edges, all at random angle. I felt a lot of sharp points and
> edges. Walking gently is one thing, but if a cat ran or, worse, jumped
> from a fence, she could land on a sharp chip the wrong way and get
> hurt?
>
> Exhibit 2: We have an 18" heavy iron bird bath. It looks pretty but my
> fear is it easy to trip. Especially when it is sitting on an uneven
> ground like the mulch or even grass. Cats are naturally curious, this
> is just the roght height for them to try playing or climbing, and
> having it fall on them.
>
> Would appreciate any experience you have guys may have here about
> saftey of cats running/jumping on wood chips, and playing near bird
> baths.

In general, there is no way one can protect an "outside" cat from all the
hazards he might encounter.....Even if you keep him inside, he can get hurt
a thousand different ways right in your own home or apartment.....At some
point, you just have to bank on the animal's common sense and inherited
ability to keep out of trouble. Of my four cats, only one leaves the
property from time to time, but I worry about all four of them, and usually
check up on them every morning when I awake to make sure they are all
present and accounted for. One likes to sleep on the roof in the Summertime,
and should he fall off of the South side of the house, he would fall two
stories onto hard ground. And there are always cars and hawks and big
raccoons and teenagers with BB guns and sadistic AH'd with real
guns.......But millions of little furry creatures die miserable deaths every
year in the wild.....It's a cruel world..... And my cats have already lived
several years in comfort and the lap of luxury, so even if I were to lose
one now, I shouldn't be sorry for owning them. They are a lot better off
than they would have been had God had his way with them and I hadn't come
along.....

Pennyaline
October 23rd 07, 12:07 AM
Newbie wrote:
> To make a long story short...

<snipped to make a long story even shorter

> Exhibit 1: My wife has created about a 60 feet long strip of wooden
> mulch along the fence because grass doesn't grow easily here. Cats love
> to walk on the mulch, even jump on it from the fence. (As mentioned, it
> is Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot.)

If you want to make your cats' lives better and safer (and give
yourselves less to worry about in the bargain) keep them indoors.


> Now, I tried walking barefoot on it for a few feet and realized it
> wasn't like normal ground. You have thousands of wood chips, some with
> sharp edges, all at random angle. I felt a lot of sharp points and
> edges. Walking gently is one thing, but if a cat ran or, worse, jumped
> from a fence, she could land on a sharp chip the wrong way and get
> hurt?

Cats are clever. They wont persist at something that hurts. Very wise,
unlike many of us higher animals, obviously. Either don't use the mulch
or keep the cats indoors. If neither of those are viable options, stop
worrying. As you said earlier, "they love to walk on the mulch, even
jump on it from the fence."


> Exhibit 2: We have an 18" heavy iron bird bath. It looks pretty but my
> fear is it easy to trip. Especially when it is sitting on an uneven
> ground like the mulch or even grass. Cats are naturally curious, this
> is just the roght height for them to try playing or climbing, and
> having it fall on them.

I'm concerned about the safety of the birds in such close proximity to
the cats.

If the birdbath is so unstable you're concerned about the cats being
injured by it:
1. don't put it up -- find another way to leave water out for the birds, or
2. keep the cats indoors

FragileWarrior
October 23rd 07, 12:12 AM
No to the woodchips bothering the cat. His paws and his weight are not the
same as your feet and your weight. The fact that you can see cats like
walking in it (and using it for a literbox, too, no doubt) is a good
indication that cats are fine with it.

No to putting a heavy, unstable ANYTHING on top of woodchips. Go to ground
level, put down a paving tile, level it, put the birdbath on top and rake
woodchips around it. If it still tips easily, get a plastic one or risk
finding a cat with its brains bashed out someday.

JoeSpareBedroom
October 23rd 07, 12:21 AM
"Newbie" > wrote in message
...
> To make a long story short, I am worrying about whether wood mulch
> (Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot to be precise) is safe for cats to run
> on or jump onto? Or small metal bird baths placed on that mulch?
>
> Nothing bad has happened to our knowledge. But a neighbor's cat
> returned with a serious limp in one of the front leg. She'll heal, but
> this got him and me talking that while there isn't much we can do about
> the outside world, we should cat proofing our yards more consciously.

OH MY GOD.

Do me a favor. Tomorrow morning, when you're sober, post an apology for that
question, OK?

Newbie[_2_]
October 23rd 07, 12:39 AM
William Graham > wrote:

: In general, there is no way one can protect an "outside" cat from all the
: hazards he might encounter.....Even if you keep him inside, he can get hurt
: a thousand different ways right in your own home or apartment.....At some
: point, you just have to bank on the animal's common sense and inherited
: ability to keep out of trouble. Of my four cats, only one leaves the
: property from time to time, but I worry about all four of them, and usually
: check up on them every morning when I awake to make sure they are all
: present and accounted for. One likes to sleep on the roof in the Summertime,
: and should he fall off of the South side of the house, he would fall two
: stories onto hard ground. And there are always cars and hawks and big
: raccoons and teenagers with BB guns and sadistic AH'd with real
: guns.......But millions of little furry creatures die miserable deaths every
: year in the wild.....It's a cruel world..... And my cats have already lived
: several years in comfort and the lap of luxury, so even if I were to lose
: one now, I shouldn't be sorry for owning them. They are a lot better off
: than they would have been had God had his way with them and I hadn't come
: along.....

I appreciate your thoughts. Nice, educating reading.

Newbie[_2_]
October 23rd 07, 12:45 AM
Pennyaline > wrote:

: I'm concerned about the safety of the birds in such close proximity to
: the cats.

We call it a birdbath because that's what the shop called it, but birds
don't seem to agree and it is merely a decoration. Birds do like to eat
in our yard, but so far our water has not interested them. Maybe there
are other better sources of water nearby.

There are many cats in the neighborhood, and many birds too. With a
little common sense it seems to be working out. Cats are usually well
fed and content. Bird feeders are high, near wires and tree branches
which they use as staging area. I try not to have any thing near the
feeder that would hide cats.

symplastless
October 23rd 07, 01:04 PM
> To make a long story short, I am worrying about whether wood mulch
> (Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot to be precise) is safe for cats to run
> on or jump onto?

Good question.

If a tree had a great deal of injections and systemics applid there is a
good chance that thge chemacls may be stored in the wood. Trees load, store
and then use.

What I use at clients properties is composted tree trimmings. This consist
of wood chips, leaves and needles. I let them compost for at least one
year. NOT FRESH CHIPS. I do not find myself recommending to clients to buy
bags of mulch. What ever you use here are some helpful tips in proper
mulching.

Proper Mulching - http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/sub3.html
and
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/ Look up "Mulch"

Here are two links addressing some of the chemistry of mulch.

Troubles in the Rhizosphere
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html

A Touch of Chemistry
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/CHEM.html

Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

Jo Ann
October 23rd 07, 04:53 PM
On Oct 22, 4:38 pm, Newbie > wrote:
> To make a long story short, I am worrying about whether wood mulch
> (Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot to be precise) is safe for cats to run
> on or jump onto? Or small metal bird baths placed on that mulch?
>
> Nothing bad has happened to our knowledge. But a neighbor's cat
> returned with a serious limp in one of the front leg. She'll heal, but
> this got him and me talking that while there isn't much we can do about
> the outside world, we should cat proofing our yards more consciously.
>
> Exhibit 1: My wife has created about a 60 feet long strip of wooden
> mulch along the fence because grass doesn't grow easily here. Cats love
> to walk on the mulch, even jump on it from the fence. (As mentioned, it
> is Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot.)
>
> Now, I tried walking barefoot on it for a few feet and realized it
> wasn't like normal ground. You have thousands of wood chips, some with
> sharp edges, all at random angle. I felt a lot of sharp points and
> edges. Walking gently is one thing, but if a cat ran or, worse, jumped
> from a fence, she could land on a sharp chip the wrong way and get
> hurt?
>
> Exhibit 2: We have an 18" heavy iron bird bath. It looks pretty but my
> fear is it easy to trip. Especially when it is sitting on an uneven
> ground like the mulch or even grass. Cats are naturally curious, this
> is just the roght height for them to try playing or climbing, and
> having it fall on them.
>
> Would appreciate any experience you have guys may have here about
> saftey of cats running/jumping on wood chips, and playing near bird
> baths.

This has GOT to be a troll. No one that worried about cats' safety
would be letting them out to travel the neighborhood.

Jo Ann

William Graham
October 23rd 07, 09:24 PM
"Jo Ann" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Oct 22, 4:38 pm, Newbie > wrote:
>> To make a long story short, I am worrying about whether wood mulch
>> (Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot to be precise) is safe for cats to run
>> on or jump onto? Or small metal bird baths placed on that mulch?
>>
>> Nothing bad has happened to our knowledge. But a neighbor's cat
>> returned with a serious limp in one of the front leg. She'll heal, but
>> this got him and me talking that while there isn't much we can do about
>> the outside world, we should cat proofing our yards more consciously.
>>
>> Exhibit 1: My wife has created about a 60 feet long strip of wooden
>> mulch along the fence because grass doesn't grow easily here. Cats love
>> to walk on the mulch, even jump on it from the fence. (As mentioned, it
>> is Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot.)
>>
>> Now, I tried walking barefoot on it for a few feet and realized it
>> wasn't like normal ground. You have thousands of wood chips, some with
>> sharp edges, all at random angle. I felt a lot of sharp points and
>> edges. Walking gently is one thing, but if a cat ran or, worse, jumped
>> from a fence, she could land on a sharp chip the wrong way and get
>> hurt?
>>
>> Exhibit 2: We have an 18" heavy iron bird bath. It looks pretty but my
>> fear is it easy to trip. Especially when it is sitting on an uneven
>> ground like the mulch or even grass. Cats are naturally curious, this
>> is just the roght height for them to try playing or climbing, and
>> having it fall on them.
>>
>> Would appreciate any experience you have guys may have here about
>> saftey of cats running/jumping on wood chips, and playing near bird
>> baths.
>
> This has GOT to be a troll. No one that worried about cats' safety
> would be letting them out to travel the neighborhood.
>
> Jo Ann
>
If a cat is "fixed: it will seldom travel off of your property....We live on
a dead end street, and one of our cats came from a neighbor (when they got a
dog) she still goes back there to visit once in a while, and takes her buddy
B-K with her, but other than that, all of our cats spend all of their time
on the property. So, other than using the ground for a cat box, they are
really inside cats.....

Pennyaline
October 23rd 07, 11:28 PM
William Graham wrote:
> If a cat is "fixed: it will seldom travel off of your property....We live on
> a dead end street, and one of our cats came from a neighbor (when they got a
> dog) she still goes back there to visit once in a while, and takes her buddy
> B-K with her, but other than that, all of our cats spend all of their time
> on the property. So, other than using the ground for a cat box, they are
> really inside cats.....

Spayed and neutered cats roam just as much as intact cats do. The
difference is that they don't roam looking to mate and don't contribute
to the cat overpopulation problem. They are just as much at risk of
getting lost, being killed by traffic, getting injured or killed by
other animals, exposure and reexposure to diseases communicable to other
animals AND humans, becoming stranded outdoors in bad weather, eating
poisoned baits, etc. They will return to anyplace they find food, so
don't pat yourself on the back about your kitty's fidelity. She may
vanish forever at any moment, and then who will you blame? Indoor cats
that go outside are not indoor cats. Keep your cats inside!

Dave[_2_]
October 24th 07, 12:18 AM
"Newbie" > wrote in message
...
> To make a long story short, I am worrying about whether wood mulch
> (Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot to be precise) is safe for cats to run
> on or jump onto? Or small metal bird baths placed on that mulch?
>
> Nothing bad has happened to our knowledge. But a neighbor's cat
> returned with a serious limp in one of the front leg. She'll heal, but
> this got him and me talking that while there isn't much we can do about
> the outside world, we should cat proofing our yards more consciously.
>
> Exhibit 1: My wife has created about a 60 feet long strip of wooden
> mulch along the fence because grass doesn't grow easily here. Cats love
> to walk on the mulch, even jump on it from the fence. (As mentioned, it
> is Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot.)
>
> Now, I tried walking barefoot on it for a few feet and realized it
> wasn't like normal ground. You have thousands of wood chips, some with
> sharp edges, all at random angle. I felt a lot of sharp points and
> edges. Walking gently is one thing, but if a cat ran or, worse, jumped
> from a fence, she could land on a sharp chip the wrong way and get
> hurt?
>
> Exhibit 2: We have an 18" heavy iron bird bath. It looks pretty but my
> fear is it easy to trip. Especially when it is sitting on an uneven
> ground like the mulch or even grass. Cats are naturally curious, this
> is just the roght height for them to try playing or climbing, and
> having it fall on them.
>
> Would appreciate any experience you have guys may have here about
> saftey of cats running/jumping on wood chips, and playing near bird
> baths.

If the birdbath is not level, or whatever is setting on is not substantive,
is the cause. Fix that.

Dave

William Graham
October 24th 07, 05:36 AM
"Pennyaline" > wrote in message
...
> William Graham wrote:
>> If a cat is "fixed: it will seldom travel off of your property....We live
>> on a dead end street, and one of our cats came from a neighbor (when they
>> got a dog) she still goes back there to visit once in a while, and takes
>> her buddy B-K with her, but other than that, all of our cats spend all of
>> their time on the property. So, other than using the ground for a cat
>> box, they are really inside cats.....
>
> Spayed and neutered cats roam just as much as intact cats do. The
> difference is that they don't roam looking to mate and don't contribute to
> the cat overpopulation problem. They are just as much at risk of getting
> lost, being killed by traffic, getting injured or killed by other animals,
> exposure and reexposure to diseases communicable to other animals AND
> humans, becoming stranded outdoors in bad weather, eating poisoned baits,
> etc. They will return to anyplace they find food, so don't pat yourself on
> the back about your kitty's fidelity. She may vanish forever at any
> moment, and then who will you blame? Indoor cats that go outside are not
> indoor cats. Keep your cats inside!

The above has NOT been my experience, and I am 72 years old and have had
many cats during my life....I have four of them right now....two males (one
fixed, and one not) and two fixed females. Even the unfixed male never went
more than two blocks away, and now, at about 6 years old, he seldom leaves
the property. Three of my four cats were outside cats when I got them, and
the other one soon learned to appreciate being able to go out on the deck
and sun herself.....I wouldn't have an inside cat unless I lived in a very
hazardous place, like a city apartment, and then I would get one only as a
kitten, and train him/her from birth to live inside.....Even then, every
inside cat I have known lives to go outside, and runs out every chance they
get. - That should tell you something right there........

Pennyaline
October 24th 07, 02:50 PM
William Graham wrote:
> The above has NOT been my experience, and I am 72 years old and have had
> many cats during my life

You know, when my mother had the first traffic accident in which she was
truly at fault, she insisted to the victim, to the police, to the judge
and to us that she couldn't POSSIBLY have done anything wrong. She
explained ad nauseum that her driving was flawless, because she had been
driving for 55 years and had so much experience. It was all the other
person's fault, she rationalized, because the victim had only been
driving for twelve years and was clearly inept for that reason. She
denied blame then and still does to this day. She still will not see
that using her age as a defense was one of her biggest missteps in that
case.


> ....I have four of them right now....two males (one
> fixed, and one not) and two fixed females. Even the unfixed male never went
> more than two blocks away, and now, at about 6 years old, he seldom leaves
> the property. Three of my four cats were outside cats when I got them, and
> the other one soon learned to appreciate being able to go out on the deck
> and sun herself.....I wouldn't have an inside cat unless I lived in a very
> hazardous place, like a city apartment, and then I would get one only as a
> kitten, and train him/her from birth to live inside.....Even then, every
> inside cat I have known lives to go outside, and runs out every chance they
> get. - That should tell you something right there........

Don't try to use the number of cats you have right now and the statement
you've had many cats during your life as justification. It's lame, and
comical.

He never went more than two blocks away? How far does a cat have to go
to be lost, injured or killed. Every cat, even the best "trained" cat is
motivated by prey drive. A fixed well-fed cat will still chase prey just
to chase it.

But I can see there's no reasoning with you about this.

CatNipped[_2_]
October 24th 07, 09:49 PM
"William Graham" > wrote in message
. ..

> kitten, and train him/her from birth to live inside.....Even then, every
> inside cat I have known lives to go outside, and runs out every chance
> they get. - That should tell you something right there........

Obviously you don't know my cats. I can leave doors and windows wide open
and none of them will go anywhere near the scary "out".

Hugs,

CatNipped

William Graham
October 24th 07, 11:01 PM
"Pennyaline" > wrote in message
...
> William Graham wrote:
>> The above has NOT been my experience, and I am 72 years old and have had
>> many cats during my life
>
> You know, when my mother had the first traffic accident in which she was
> truly at fault, she insisted to the victim, to the police, to the judge
> and to us that she couldn't POSSIBLY have done anything wrong. She
> explained ad nauseum that her driving was flawless, because she had been
> driving for 55 years and had so much experience. It was all the other
> person's fault, she rationalized, because the victim had only been driving
> for twelve years and was clearly inept for that reason. She denied blame
> then and still does to this day. She still will not see that using her age
> as a defense was one of her biggest missteps in that case.
>
>
>> ....I have four of them right now....two males (one fixed, and one not)
>> and two fixed females. Even the unfixed male never went more than two
>> blocks away, and now, at about 6 years old, he seldom leaves the
>> property. Three of my four cats were outside cats when I got them, and
>> the other one soon learned to appreciate being able to go out on the deck
>> and sun herself.....I wouldn't have an inside cat unless I lived in a
>> very hazardous place, like a city apartment, and then I would get one
>> only as a kitten, and train him/her from birth to live inside.....Even
>> then, every inside cat I have known lives to go outside, and runs out
>> every chance they get. - That should tell you something right
>> there........
>
> Don't try to use the number of cats you have right now and the statement
> you've had many cats during your life as justification. It's lame, and
> comical.

What's, "comical" to you isn't necessarily comical to me....My sense of
humor is a bit more expansive than that.....
>
> He never went more than two blocks away? How far does a cat have to go to
> be lost, injured or killed.

In my case, (where I'm living right now) a lot further than two
blocks.....You should learn to speak for yourself, and your own
circumstances and experience.....Don't try to speak for me.



Every cat, even the best "trained" cat is
> motivated by prey drive. A fixed well-fed cat will still chase prey just
> to chase it.

That's true, and I live on the edge of town.....My cats have over a hundred
acres of farm land behind my house to do their sport hunting on.....

>
> But I can see there's no reasoning with you about this.

That's right.....Your mind is made up, so there's no chance that I will
suddenly throw away all my knowledge and experience and acquire
yours.......You have already decided that you know all about me and my cats.
I'll bet you can read Bush's mind and know that he lied about the WMD's too,
haven't you? Let me guess.....You're a liberal.....Right?

William Graham
October 24th 07, 11:04 PM
"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> "William Graham" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>> kitten, and train him/her from birth to live inside.....Even then, every
>> inside cat I have known lives to go outside, and runs out every chance
>> they get. - That should tell you something right there........
>
> Obviously you don't know my cats. I can leave doors and windows wide open
> and none of them will go anywhere near the scary "out".
>
> Hugs,
>
> CatNipped
>
That's true, I don't know your cats. I can only speak for the ones I have
known. They have longed to go outside, but I have to say, they don't go far
when they escape....They usually have just rolled around on the sidewalk
just outside their mistresses' apartments.

Pennyaline
October 24th 07, 11:27 PM
William Graham wrote:
> "Pennyaline" > wrote in message
>> Don't try to use the number of cats you have right now and the statement
>> you've had many cats during your life as justification. It's lame, and
>> comical.
>
> What's, "comical" to you isn't necessarily comical to me....My sense of
> humor is a bit more expansive than that.....

So is mine, but not so much that you're not funny.


>> He never went more than two blocks away? How far does a cat have to go to
>> be lost, injured or killed.
>
> In my case, (where I'm living right now) a lot further than two
> blocks.....You should learn to speak for yourself, and your own
> circumstances and experience.....Don't try to speak for me.

I wasn't speaking for you, only quoting you. Observe the following,
written by you:

"The above has NOT been my experience, and I am 72 years old and have had
many cats during my life....I have four of them right now....two males (one
fixed, and one not) and two fixed females. Even the unfixed male never went
more than two blocks away, and now, at about 6 years old, he seldom leaves
the property."

See, "two blocks away." Your claim, not mine.



>> Every cat, even the best "trained" cat is
>> motivated by prey drive. A fixed well-fed cat will still chase prey just
>> to chase it.
>
> That's true, and I live on the edge of town.....My cats have over a hundred
> acres of farm land behind my house to do their sport hunting on.....

Sooooooo, what about the aforementioned "two blocks"?



>> But I can see there's no reasoning with you about this.
>
> That's right.....Your mind is made up, so there's no chance that I will
> suddenly throw away all my knowledge and experience and acquire
> yours...

Okay, mom. That's right, the accident was NEVER your fault, mom.


>>....You have already decided that you know all about me and my cats.
> I'll bet you can read Bush's mind and know that he lied about the WMD's too,
> haven't you? Let me guess.....You're a liberal.....Right?

Isn't that prerequisite to having a cat?

William Graham
October 25th 07, 08:48 AM
"Pennyaline" > wrote in message
...
> William Graham wrote:
>> "Pennyaline" > wrote in message
>>> Don't try to use the number of cats you have right now and the statement
>>> you've had many cats during your life as justification. It's lame, and
>>> comical.
>>
>> What's, "comical" to you isn't necessarily comical to me....My sense of
>> humor is a bit more expansive than that.....
>
> So is mine, but not so much that you're not funny.
>
>
>>> He never went more than two blocks away? How far does a cat have to go
>>> to be lost, injured or killed.
>>
>> In my case, (where I'm living right now) a lot further than two
>> blocks.....You should learn to speak for yourself, and your own
>> circumstances and experience.....Don't try to speak for me.
>
> I wasn't speaking for you, only quoting you. Observe the following,
> written by you:
>
> "The above has NOT been my experience, and I am 72 years old and have had
> many cats during my life....I have four of them right now....two males
> (one
> fixed, and one not) and two fixed females. Even the unfixed male never
> went
> more than two blocks away, and now, at about 6 years old, he seldom leaves
> the property."
>
> See, "two blocks away." Your claim, not mine.

My claim of what? - I don't know what the hell you are talking about.
Look....My 4 outside cats are quite safe outside my house.....I live on a
dead end street. It is full of kids and pets playing in the street all the
time. The other side of my house, (the back side) backs up on a huge
Christmas tree farm.....My cats would have to travel several blocks in order
to get near cars, or in the company of strangers. They don't do that....They
never go that far away from the property in the front, and they would have
to travel a half mile or more in the back....Now, do I have to draw you a
map to understand that my four outside cats are not in any danger? And even
if they were, why would you care? They are my cats, and I have to live with
them and their lifestyles. You don't. I am not about to tell you how to care
for your cats, so why are you so passionate about telling me how to care for
mine?
In any case, this conversation is over....I have decided that you are a
stupid troll, so I am going to eliminate you from my email system.....IOW, I
am killfiling you so I no longer have to bother with you.

Dan Espen
October 25th 07, 04:21 PM
"William Graham" > writes:

> Let me guess.....You're a liberal.....Right?

Geez Bill, afraid of those boogie man liberals?

Oh wait, I must be one too.

William Graham
October 25th 07, 10:17 PM
"Dan Espen" > wrote in message
...
> "William Graham" > writes:
>
>> Let me guess.....You're a liberal.....Right?
>
> Geez Bill, afraid of those boogie man liberals?
>
> Oh wait, I must be one too.

Yeah....They have a way of thinking they know how other people should live,
and if the other people don't live that way, then, by God, they're going to
make a law that insists that they live that way, or they are going to tax
the living hell out of their indiscretions until they are forced to live
that way.

There are many examples....Seat belt laws, motorcycle helmet laws, huge,
ridiculous taxes on cigarettes, etc, etc. And, somehow, they know all about
how the other people should live, even though they have never walked even
for one second in their shoes.
They are on their way to their seat on the floor of congress, and they
are passed by a biker splitting lanes....They think, "Just you wait, you
SOB, I'll fix your ass!" Then, later on that day or week, or month, they
make a law that insists he wear an iron mask while he rides his bike, so his
life will be miserable all Summer long. Their excuse is, "So my insurance
rates will go down."
But in fact, the rates are higher, because he will be more likely to
break his neck and become a quadrapheligic. Had he not been wearing a
helmet, he would be slightly more likely to die, which is a lot cheaper for
the insurance company. So, even their sorry excuse for infringing on the
rights of others is flawed.
Yeah.....I hate the liberals.....I could write a book about it, and how they
have screwed up my life......
Now this other AH, (whom I have kill filed, by the way) Is trying to
tell me how to take care of my cats, even though he knows absolutely nothing
about my home or my cats and what is best for either me, the house or the
cats.....If he had his way, he would make a law that insists they remain
locked up in my house.....Should the city make such a law, I would move out
of town, and should the state make such a law, I would probably have to
euthanize all four of them.

Pennyaline
October 25th 07, 11:18 PM
William Graham wrote:
> My claim of what? - I don't know what the hell you are talking about.
> Look....My 4 outside cats are quite safe outside my house.....I live on a
> dead end street. It is full of kids and pets playing in the street all the
> time. The other side of my house, (the back side) backs up on a huge
> Christmas tree farm.....My cats would have to travel several blocks in order
> to get near cars, or in the company of strangers. They don't do that....They
> never go that far away from the property in the front, and they would have
> to travel a half mile or more in the back....Now, do I have to draw you a
> map to understand that my four outside cats are not in any danger? And even
> if they were, why would you care? They are my cats, and I have to live with
> them and their lifestyles. You don't. I am not about to tell you how to care
> for your cats, so why are you so passionate about telling me how to care for
> mine?
> In any case, this conversation is over....I have decided that you are a
> stupid troll, so I am going to eliminate you from my email system.....IOW, I
> am killfiling you so I no longer have to bother with you.

Awww. Now that is a shame 'cuz it means you'll miss this: Oops, my bad!
Draw a picture of that.

I misunderstood your post, so I responded incorrectly.

Still, I believe you are an irresponsible cat owner. Yes, it's my opinion.

Pennyaline
October 25th 07, 11:24 PM
William Graham wrote:
> "Dan Espen" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "William Graham" > writes:
>>
>>> Let me guess.....You're a liberal.....Right?
>> Geez Bill, afraid of those boogie man liberals?
>>
>> Oh wait, I must be one too.
>
> Yeah....They have a way of thinking they know how other people should live,
> and if the other people don't live that way, then, by God, they're going to
> make a law that insists that they live that way, or they are going to tax
> the living hell out of their indiscretions until they are forced to live
> that way.

How in hell does it add up to that?



> There are many examples....Seat belt laws, motorcycle helmet laws, huge,
> ridiculous taxes on cigarettes, etc, etc. And, somehow, they know all about
> how the other people should live, even though they have never walked even
> for one second in their shoes.
> They are on their way to their seat on the floor of congress, and they
> are passed by a biker splitting lanes....They think, "Just you wait, you
> SOB, I'll fix your ass!" Then, later on that day or week, or month, they
> make a law that insists he wear an iron mask while he rides his bike, so his
> life will be miserable all Summer long. Their excuse is, "So my insurance
> rates will go down."
> But in fact, the rates are higher, because he will be more likely to
> break his neck and become a quadrapheligic. Had he not been wearing a
> helmet, he would be slightly more likely to die, which is a lot cheaper for
> the insurance company. So, even their sorry excuse for infringing on the
> rights of others is flawed.
> Yeah.....I hate the liberals.....I could write a book about it, and how they
> have screwed up my life......

You shouldn't have let them.



> Now this other AH, (whom I have kill filed, by the way) Is trying to
> tell me how to take care of my cats, even though he knows absolutely nothing
> about my home or my cats and what is best for either me, the house or the
> cats.....If he had his way, he would make a law that insists they remain
> locked up in my house.....Should the city make such a law, I would move out
> of town, and should the state make such a law, I would probably have to
> euthanize all four of them.

My, my! Temper!

And as if that wasn't bad enough: The town I live in doesn't allow one
household to own that many cats, inside or out! That'd drive him to
suicide, wouldn't it? God damned LIBERALS!!!

<incidentally, I'm in Utah... they shoot liberals, don't they?>

Upscale
October 26th 07, 02:08 AM
"William Graham" > wrote in message
> There are many examples....Seat belt laws, motorcycle helmet laws, huge,
> ridiculous taxes on cigarettes, etc, etc. And, somehow, they know all
about
> how the other people should live, even though they have never walked even
> for one second in their shoes.

You know, it's been awhile since I attacked your comments and I start to
think, that maybe you're ok and then you know what happens? You jump right
back into your senile, "I want my rights at all cost" and screw everybody
else ranting tirade. You just don't give a damn for anyone else as long as
you get your own way. You damn everybody that think the benefits of our
society should be shared a little more equally and flail mindlessly at any
suggestion that there's more in this life than just 'YOUR' rights.

You really are a screwed up, selfish old fart and I shudder to think how
you've treated other people during your long road to your current senile,
decrepit, ancient condition. Your one redeeming feature is that you support
some cats and that's it. Do everybody a favour will you and kiss off. The
cats will do fine without you and everybody else will breath a sigh of
relief that they don't have to listen any more to the asshole living in the
house at the end of the dead end street.