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View Full Version : SHOULD I TAKE HIM TO A VET?


u
October 26th 07, 09:36 PM
Many of the people in these usenet pets groups work in Veterinarian
Clinics, which makes them biased.

In my city of Tucson, Arizona it is very difficult to find a Vet that
will agree to reduced cost services, or even payment plans to low
income pet owners,regardless of the circumstances. Their motto might as
well be PROFIT FIRST, ANIMAL WELFARE SECOND. Many of these outfits
are run by corporations, are bloated practices or have greedy
practitioners.

This is in contrast to at least two other cities I have lived in
where a vet would often treat an animal for free if the owner could
not afford it. So I suspect this is a problem local to Arizona, which is
not suprising given the State ranks so low in nearly every quality of
life research measure.

There is a definite lack of professionalism and ethics in this regard
in the Vet community in Tucson. They don't care if your animal is sick.
What is important to them is if you can PAY NOW IN FULL. This is partly
the fault of the do nothing state government here that does little or
nothing to promote or enforce ethical standards in this or other
professions. Frequently,Arizona is thought of as the State where
Easterners who could not make the grade come to be free to practice
in their substandard, unprofessional ways (go west young man).
Recall also that Arizona is a right-wing pro-business, anti-union State.
Hit the road jack if you cannot pay- I don't care if Fido IS suffering.

Therefore, I have posted this to let other pet owners know.
GUESS WHAT? YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO THESE SHYSTER QUACKS. If you are
literate and willing to do a little reading, YOU CAN TREAT 90% of
your pets problems on your own. Only the more serious and complicated
medical problems which require surgery, etc is a vet needed.

There are many sources on the net for veterinary medications and
at least several do not require any "please, may I?" prescriptions
from capitalist pig profit mongers. You can order online and the order
will be delivered to your door. There are OTHER sources of medication
as well. You just have to do some searching and reading. Stock up on
what you need quickly because corrupt capitalistic pig Vet orgs are
acting to stop any access to medical supplies so you will be forced to
come to their dues paying members and pay their surcharges on medicines
as well as their exorbitant consult fees. The way it works in Amerika is
these so called professional organizations pay "contributions" to get
politicians elected to do their bidding, basically a corrupt, bribe
driven system.

If you get yourself a good software search engine, such as Copernic
or Firststop websearch, both of which have free versions, your search
for information on how to TREAT your pet will be greatly simplified.
Google by itself simply doesn't do it any more.
There is an abundance of up to date, well written, articles on how
to diagnose and treat your pet on the web. alot of which is written
by DVMs. You only have to know how to search for it, which is really
quite simple. You will often find that you know more about a particular
problem than the Vet that is charging you $50 just to walk through the
door, and much more for meds and actual treatment.

Many of the medical problems your pet has you will be able to diagnose
and treat yourself, ASSUMING that you are literate and have the time
to read and educate yourself. It does not take that much time.

Do not listen to the flamers in pets groups that keep insisting
that everything has to be taken to one of these unprofessional money
grubbers. The people in pets groups are often the ones who are profiting
from your taking the animal to the vet, usually at outrageously high
prices. And you will have the satisfaction of knowing your pet was
treated by someone who REALLY DOES care about the welfare of
animals-YOU!

I will soon be starting a web interest group for pet owners to share and
develop information on how to treat their animals themselves along with
information on how to report unethical and unprofessional workers in the
vet care industry. Examples of people I know who have successfully
treated their pets recently are successful treatment of respiratory
infection, eye infection, etc.

Here are a couple URLS to get you started (took me about 10 min to find
these, more to come) You vet may be reluctant to give you a prescription
for the ones who require prescriptions since he/she loses her cut that
way.

http://top-drugs.com/index.php - may be a good source for meds
http://www.medi-vet.com/ -sounds like they require prescriptions
blehhhhh! http://www.1800petmeds.com/
http://www.animalcarecenter.com/index-2.html good info on the war to
keep shysters control over prescriptions
http://www.kittens-lair.net/cat-health/household-medications-for-
cats.htm
l-good article on what NOT to give your cat
http://home.howstuffworks.com/cat-care-tips-channel.htm cat care tips

CatNipped[_2_]
October 26th 07, 09:53 PM
"u" > wrote in message ...
> Many of the people in these usenet pets groups work in Veterinarian
> Clinics, which makes them biased.

<snipped more blather>

I've found that most vet clinics have been *forced* to ask for payment up
front or payment in full because, unless they do, they are often "stiffed"
by people who seem to be able to find the money for their SUVs, vacations,
and luxury items, but always seem to be too poor to pay for medical care for
their pets.

CatNipped

cybercat
October 26th 07, 10:09 PM
"u" > wrote in message ...
> Many of the people in these usenet pets groups work in Veterinarian
> Clinics, which makes them biased.

I'm not even reading any further.

Asshole.

buglady
October 27th 07, 02:31 AM
"u" > wrote in message ...
> Many of the people in these usenet pets groups work in Veterinarian
> Clinics, which makes them biased.

...........oh really? Gosh I've been here for years and didn't know that.
How unobservant of me.
>
If you are
> literate and willing to do a little reading, YOU CAN TREAT 90% of
> your pets problems on your own. Only the more serious and complicated
> medical problems which require surgery, etc is a vet needed.

..........and by the time you're done dicking around those serious cases end
up dead. Tell me, how do you differentiate between Cushings,
hypothyroidism, Addison's disease and diabetes by yourself? How about
Ehrlichia - do you even know the symptoms? Think you can test for that on
your own?
>
The people in pets groups are often the ones who are profiting
> from your taking the animal to the vet,
............oh you twit, I wish I had ONE THIN DIME for the hours I've poured
into answering questions over the years.

> I will soon be starting a web interest group for pet owners to share and
> develop information on how to treat their animals themselves

...........don't bother. Being literate is only half the battle. It also
takes intelligence.

Oh, BTW, I don't work in a vet clinic
bye bye now
buglady
take out the dog before replying

u
October 27th 07, 10:27 PM
"CatNipped" > wrote in
:

> "u" > wrote in message ...
>> Many of the people in these usenet pets groups work in Veterinarian
>> Clinics, which makes them biased.
>

I bet that is what they use as an excuse. Funny how they seem to be able
to support a building, nice style of living, cars and multiple employees
on being "stiffed" so often. Never has one mentioned this as the reason
they will not work with pet owners. There is no professionalism in this
field, no sincere regard for animals well being. The almight dollar
governs their behavior, similar to common prostitutes.

>
> I've found that most vet clinics have been *forced* to ask for payment
> up front or payment in full because, unless they do, they are often
> "stiffed" by people who seem to be able to find the money for their
> SUVs,

<snipped more blather>

> CatNipped
>
>

u
October 27th 07, 10:30 PM
"cybercat" > wrote in :

>
> "u" > wrote in message ...
>> Many of the people in these usenet pets groups work in Veterinarian
>> Clinics, which makes them biased.
>
> I'm not even reading any further.


Probably a vet or vet tech, no doubt. This is the caliber of people
currently in this "profession" here in Tucson. I know, I have dealt with
them at their businesses.

>
> Asshole.
>
>

u
October 27th 07, 10:42 PM
"buglady" > wrote in
:

>
> "u" > wrote in message ...
>> Many of the people in these usenet pets groups work in Veterinarian
>> Clinics, which makes them biased.
>
> ..........oh really? Gosh I've been here for years and didn't know
> that. How unobservant of me.

Actually yes, that is why there is such hostility towards any reluctance
to take an animal to these unprofessional profiteers in these pet
groups, because there are many earning their money from treating
animals.

>>
> If you are
>> literate and willing to do a little reading, YOU CAN TREAT 90% of
>> your pets problems on your own. Only the more serious and complicated
>> medical problems which require surgery, etc is a vet needed.
>
> .........and by the time you're done dicking around those serious
> cases end up dead. Tell me, how do you differentiate between
> Cushings, hypothyroidism, Addison's disease and diabetes by yourself?
> How about Ehrlichia - do you even know the symptoms? Think you can
> test for that on your own?

I don't "dick around" when it comes to treating my pets. And more
importantly, I don't put up with bull**** from vets who are trying to
overtreat the animal to increase their profit margins. I often find once
I have researched the symptoms and treatment for any particular illness,
I know more than these so called professionals. Only time I will take
pet to a vet is if special equipment or surgery is required, or I cannot
make a proper diagnosis. But as you purposely have ignored the vast
majority of pet problems can be handled by the owner if he/she has
average IQ and can read and doesn't by into this crap about everything
needs to go to these profiteers.

>>
> The people in pets groups are often the ones who are profiting
>> from your taking the animal to the vet,
> ...........oh you twit, I wish I had ONE THIN DIME for the hours I've
> poured into answering questions over the years.

Of course groups like these can offer answers, but much better advice
can be found in comprehensive articles on the web written true experts
in the field. And guess what, they don't charge you $50 each time you
read their free articles. There still are a few good vets around, but
have not run into any lately.


>
>> I will soon be starting a web interest group for pet owners to share
>> and develop information on how to treat their animals themselves
>
> ..........don't bother. Being literate is only half the battle. It
> also takes intelligence.

Then why do you keep offering your free advice here?

>
> Oh, BTW, I don't work in a vet clinic
> bye bye now

adios, vaya con dios buggy lady

> buglady
> take out the dog before replying
>
>

buglady
October 29th 07, 01:44 AM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
...
> Crossposting removed
>
> Gee does this sound like the idiot from last month using the email
>

.............didn't notice that he had followups set to this group and the az
group only, after initially crossposting it to dog groups. Must be a cat
person and you probably have seen him here before.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

dgk
October 30th 07, 01:18 PM
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:36:31 +0200 (CEST), u > wrote:

>Many of the people in these usenet pets groups work in Veterinarian
>Clinics, which makes them biased.
>
>In my city of Tucson, Arizona it is very difficult to find a Vet that
>will agree to reduced cost services, or even payment plans to low
>income pet owners,regardless of the circumstances. Their motto might as
>well be PROFIT FIRST, ANIMAL WELFARE SECOND. Many of these outfits
>are run by corporations, are bloated practices or have greedy
>practitioners.
>
>This is in contrast to at least two other cities I have lived in
>where a vet would often treat an animal for free if the owner could
>not afford it. So I suspect this is a problem local to Arizona, which is
>not suprising given the State ranks so low in nearly every quality of
>life research measure.
>
>There is a definite lack of professionalism and ethics in this regard
>in the Vet community in Tucson. They don't care if your animal is sick.
>What is important to them is if you can PAY NOW IN FULL. This is partly
>the fault of the do nothing state government here that does little or
>nothing to promote or enforce ethical standards in this or other
>professions. Frequently,Arizona is thought of as the State where
>Easterners who could not make the grade come to be free to practice
>in their substandard, unprofessional ways (go west young man).
>Recall also that Arizona is a right-wing pro-business, anti-union State.
>Hit the road jack if you cannot pay- I don't care if Fido IS suffering.
>
>Therefore, I have posted this to let other pet owners know.
>GUESS WHAT? YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO THESE SHYSTER QUACKS. If you are
>literate and willing to do a little reading, YOU CAN TREAT 90% of
>your pets problems on your own. Only the more serious and complicated
>medical problems which require surgery, etc is a vet needed.
>

You can also likely treat 90% of human diseases yourself from internet
information. I suggest you start reading up on "do it yourself
psychotherapy".

Here in NYC I notice that the vets need to be paid as well. That's
probably because they like to feed their families.

cybercat
October 30th 07, 07:17 PM
"dgk" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:36:31 +0200 (CEST), u > wrote:
>
>>Many of the people in these usenet pets groups work in Veterinarian
>>Clinics, which makes them biased.
>>
>>In my city of Tucson, Arizona it is very difficult to find a Vet that
>>will agree to reduced cost services, or even payment plans to low
>>income pet owners,regardless of the circumstances. Their motto might as
>>well be PROFIT FIRST, ANIMAL WELFARE SECOND. Many of these outfits
>>are run by corporations, are bloated practices or have greedy
>>practitioners.
>>
>>This is in contrast to at least two other cities I have lived in
>>where a vet would often treat an animal for free if the owner could
>>not afford it. So I suspect this is a problem local to Arizona, which is
>>not suprising given the State ranks so low in nearly every quality of
>>life research measure.
>>
>>There is a definite lack of professionalism and ethics in this regard
>>in the Vet community in Tucson. They don't care if your animal is sick.
>>What is important to them is if you can PAY NOW IN FULL. This is partly
>>the fault of the do nothing state government here that does little or
>>nothing to promote or enforce ethical standards in this or other
>>professions. Frequently,Arizona is thought of as the State where
>>Easterners who could not make the grade come to be free to practice
>>in their substandard, unprofessional ways (go west young man).
>>Recall also that Arizona is a right-wing pro-business, anti-union State.
>>Hit the road jack if you cannot pay- I don't care if Fido IS suffering.
>>
>>Therefore, I have posted this to let other pet owners know.
>>GUESS WHAT? YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO THESE SHYSTER QUACKS. If you are
>>literate and willing to do a little reading, YOU CAN TREAT 90% of
>>your pets problems on your own. Only the more serious and complicated
>>medical problems which require surgery, etc is a vet needed.
>>
>
> You can also likely treat 90% of human diseases yourself from internet
> information. I suggest you start reading up on "do it yourself
> psychotherapy".
>

haha! It's the crazy people who make Usenet fun.

cybercat
October 30th 07, 08:04 PM
"cybercat" > wrote
>> You can also likely treat 90% of human diseases yourself from internet
>> information. I suggest you start reading up on "do it yourself
>> psychotherapy".
>>
>
> haha! It's the crazy people who make Usenet fun.
>
And I like to think I am doing my part.

cybercat
October 30th 07, 08:33 PM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
...
>
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "cybercat" > wrote
>>>> You can also likely treat 90% of human diseases yourself from internet
>>>> information. I suggest you start reading up on "do it yourself
>>>> psychotherapy".
>>>>
>>>
>>> haha! It's the crazy people who make Usenet fun.
>>>
>> And I like to think I am doing my part.
>>
> ROFLMAOPIMP
>
> No do you think ;-)
>

:D

u
October 31st 07, 01:04 AM
dgk > wrote in
:

> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:36:31 +0200 (CEST), u > wrote:
>
>>Many of the people in these usenet pets groups work in Veterinarian
>>Clinics, which makes them biased.
>>
>>In my city of Tucson, Arizona it is very difficult to find a Vet that
>>will agree to reduced cost services, or even payment plans to low
>>income pet owners,regardless of the circumstances. Their motto might
>>as well be PROFIT FIRST, ANIMAL WELFARE SECOND. Many of these outfits
>>are run by corporations, are bloated practices or have greedy
>>practitioners.
>>
>>This is in contrast to at least two other cities I have lived in
>>where a vet would often treat an animal for free if the owner could
>>not afford it. So I suspect this is a problem local to Arizona, which
>>is not suprising given the State ranks so low in nearly every quality
>>of life research measure.
>>
>>There is a definite lack of professionalism and ethics in this regard
>>in the Vet community in Tucson. They don't care if your animal is
>>sick. What is important to them is if you can PAY NOW IN FULL. This is
>>partly the fault of the do nothing state government here that does
>>little or nothing to promote or enforce ethical standards in this or
>>other professions. Frequently,Arizona is thought of as the State where
>>Easterners who could not make the grade come to be free to practice
>>in their substandard, unprofessional ways (go west young man).
>>Recall also that Arizona is a right-wing pro-business, anti-union
>>State. Hit the road jack if you cannot pay- I don't care if Fido IS
>>suffering.
>>
>>Therefore, I have posted this to let other pet owners know.
>>GUESS WHAT? YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO THESE SHYSTER QUACKS. If you are
>>literate and willing to do a little reading, YOU CAN TREAT 90% of
>>your pets problems on your own. Only the more serious and complicated
>>medical problems which require surgery, etc is a vet needed.
>>
>
> You can also likely treat 90% of human diseases yourself from internet
> information. I suggest you start reading up on "do it yourself
> psychotherapy".

Many medical doctors still follow the ethical canons of the Hippocratic
Oath. They will treat you if you need it without acting like hookers and
asking for money up front. Also there are emergency rooms for people.
But the vets here in Tucson, and, from your statement, I am guessing
NYC-no suprise there-given NYC's rep as a denizen of assholes-HAVE NO
ethics. They run their practices exactly as a prostitute would;with her
pimps within earshot-the so-called "professional" staff they hire. And
most of them hide under their desks directing their pimps to do their
dirty work-enforcing THEIR pig collection procedures.

>
> Here in NYC I notice that the vets need to be paid as well. That's
> probably because they like to feed their families.

cybercat
October 31st 07, 02:11 AM
"u" > wrote

[ snips blahblahblah]
?I am guessing
> NYC-no suprise there-given NYC's rep as a denizen of assholes-HAVE NO
> ethics. They run their practices exactly as a prostitute would;with her
> pimps within earshot-the so-called "professional" staff they hire. And
> most of them hide under their desks directing their pimps to do their
> dirty work-enforcing THEIR pig collection procedures.

Have a tissue. You've got some foam on your big blubbery lips there,
hoss.

cybercat
October 31st 07, 03:14 AM
"Cheryl" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue 30 Oct 2007 09:11:04p, cybercat wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav >:
>
>>
>> "u" > wrote
>>
>> [ snips blahblahblah]
>> ?I am guessing
>>> NYC-no suprise there-given NYC's rep as a denizen of
>>> assholes-HAVE NO ethics. They run their practices exactly as a
>>> prostitute would;with her pimps within earshot-the so-called
>>> "professional" staff they hire. And most of them hide under
>>> their desks directing their pimps to do their dirty
>>> work-enforcing THEIR pig collection procedures.
>>
>> Have a tissue. You've got some foam on your big blubbery lips
>> there, hoss.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I need to know what they do with the pigs they collect??
>

*rolling my eyes*

They add them to their PIG collection. Duh.

cybercat
October 31st 07, 05:55 AM
"Cheryl" > wrote
> Ah. So they're just collecting there, not really doing anything?
>

Not until .... the lights go out ...

MU hahaha!

cybercat
October 31st 07, 06:03 AM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Cheryl" > wrote
>> Ah. So they're just collecting there, not really doing anything?
>>
>
> Not until .... the lights go out ...
>
> MU hahaha!
>
It's halloween, see? Actually "mischief night." So the pig collection comes
ALIVE and terrorized the neighborhood.

run! save yourselves!

dgk
October 31st 07, 01:15 PM
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 01:04:17 +0100 (CET), u > wrote:

>dgk > wrote in
:
>
>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:36:31 +0200 (CEST), u > wrote:
>>
>>>Many of the people in these usenet pets groups work in Veterinarian
>>>Clinics, which makes them biased.
>>>

>
>Many medical doctors still follow the ethical canons of the Hippocratic
>Oath. They will treat you if you need it without acting like hookers and
>asking for money up front. Also there are emergency rooms for people.
>But the vets here in Tucson, and, from your statement, I am guessing
>NYC-no suprise there-given NYC's rep as a denizen of assholes-HAVE NO
>ethics. They run their practices exactly as a prostitute would;with her
>pimps within earshot-the so-called "professional" staff they hire. And
>most of them hide under their desks directing their pimps to do their
>dirty work-enforcing THEIR pig collection procedures.
>

Wow, now if only I can get the guy to redo my bathroom for free! That
would be great. Do they do that where you live? Here in NYC those
assholes do expect to get paid for their services.

It appears that at least one asshole exists in Arizona.

Meghan Noecker
November 1st 07, 11:15 AM
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:36:31 +0200 (CEST), u > wrote:

>Many of the people in these usenet pets groups work in Veterinarian
>Clinics, which makes them biased.
>
>In my city of Tucson, Arizona it is very difficult to find a Vet that
>will agree to reduced cost services, or even payment plans to low
>income pet owners,regardless of the circumstances. Their motto might as
>well be PROFIT FIRST, ANIMAL WELFARE SECOND. Many of these outfits
>are run by corporations, are bloated practices or have greedy
>practitioners.
>

Has it occurred to you that people bring in their pets and then refuse
to pay? That vets have been cheated many times in the past and can't
just work for free? They have rent to pay, equipment to pay for,
employees to pay, etc.

My own vet has a sign that says all payment due at time of service,
but he has done payment plans for larger bills. The sign is there for
new customers that could be deadbeats. He has the option to allow
payment plans for long time customers who are known to be good
customers.


How many other services are done with a bill system later? How many of
those can you walk into the business, get the service, and walk
out,with your item, without giving banking and/or credit info?

Why should the vet be any different? Why should they take the loss
when other businesses get paid?

Meghan Noecker
November 1st 07, 11:18 AM
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 01:04:17 +0100 (CET), u > wrote:


>
>Many medical doctors still follow the ethical canons of the Hippocratic
>Oath. They will treat you if you need it without acting like hookers and
>asking for money up front. Also there are emergency rooms for people.

They aren't doing it for free either. They do get paid. Just not from
the customer. Vets don't have federal funding to pay for thse who
can't afford it.

James
November 1st 07, 07:06 PM
I would use the vet for major stuff. Scratches, cuts, fleas, and
ticks I treat at home.

Ya, many in newsgroups can't give any good answers so they
automatically advice using the vet.

Some people can't even afford human health insurance so it's really
unreasonable to expect them to wisk to the vet for every little
thing. Just because a person is poor is no reason not to have a pet.
A good pet is probably worth its keep for its effects on the well
being of the pet owner.

Meghan Noecker
November 1st 07, 09:22 PM
>Ya, many in newsgroups can't give any good answers so they
>automatically advice using the vet.

In many situations, there are multiple pssibilities. Nobody can
diagnose correctly over the intenet. We can actuallt do more harm than
good if we suggest it something mild and give treatment advice, and
then it turns out to be something worse.

A couple years ago, my sister's cat got injured. She thought she could
do a good job cleaning it out, but she didn't have the skills or the
correct tools. The following week, he had a full blown abcess on his
head, and required surgery over the Christmas holiday. It cost her
$400. Had she gone in the first day and had it cleaned out, it would
have only been about $70-90.


>
>Some people can't even afford human health insurance so it's really
>unreasonable to expect them to wisk to the vet for every little
>thing.

We are still responsible for them. I have had tough times when dealing
with vet issues. I had a cat with an abcess, and the bill was $243
that day. You know what I did? I didn't mail two checks for bills I
had planned to mail. I sent them a week late and got dinged with late
fees. It was worth it though.

When Kira came down sick, I knew I would need to get tests done, and i
know it would be more than the $100 I had available. So, I went to my
bank and got a quick loan for $350 which charges a $35 fee. I went to
the vet and made decisions based on my cat's health, not the amount of
money in my pocket. It ended up being about $250, and I had an
accurate diagnosis (which required bloodwork), medicine, and a
treatment plan.

Other times, I have had to wait on something, sell something, borrow
money, or just eat cheaper meals for awhile. There are ways to get
money in a hurry.

>Just because a person is poor is no reason not to have a pet.

Being poor is not an excuse for neglecting responsibility.

>A good pet is probably worth its keep for its effects on the well
>being of the pet owner.

Wow. They are good to keep around for the health of the human, but
their own health isn't worth a vet trip? That's really sad.

I figure the vet bills I have encountered, usually more when they are
older, are a small price to pay for what they have given me over the
years. I owe them.

u
November 1st 07, 10:09 PM
James > wrote in
oups.com:


Glad to see there are a few that frequent this group that don't have red
rings around their necks and can think for themselves.

> I would use the vet for major stuff. Scratches, cuts, fleas, and
> ticks I treat at home.
>
> Ya, many in newsgroups can't give any good answers so they
> automatically advice using the vet.

Many work in vet offices. The ones I've encountered in Tucson belong to
a trailer trash set mentality.

>
> Some people can't even afford human health insurance so it's really
> unreasonable to expect them to wisk to the vet for every little
> thing. Just because a person is poor is no reason not to have a pet.
> A good pet is probably worth its keep for its effects on the well
> being of the pet owner.

Yeah, ur right,but don't u know that if your poor in Amerika, you don't
exist? Besides all these vets have to support their bloated practices,
high life style and circle K clerk employees.

u
November 1st 07, 11:31 PM
Meghan Noecker > wrote in
:

>
>>Ya, many in newsgroups can't give any good answers so they
>>automatically advice using the vet.
>
> In many situations, there are multiple pssibilities. Nobody can
> diagnose correctly over the intenet. We can actuallt do more harm than
> good if we suggest it something mild and give treatment advice, and
> then it turns out to be something worse.

You think most vets diagnose correctly? Many just jump to the easiest
most expedient accepted treatment, before doing adequate diagnosis. One
who demanded full payment in advance did not follow commonly accepted
diagnostic procedures and her staff was so obnoxious about the money
thing that I threatened to file a complaint with the licensing board.
Many of these vets will give ur pet treatment that is expedient without
diagnosis, knowing you will be back for further charges.

>
> A couple years ago, my sister's cat got injured. She thought she could
> do a good job cleaning it out, but she didn't have the skills or the
> correct tools. The following week, he had a full blown abcess on his
> head, and required surgery over the Christmas holiday. It cost her
> $400. Had she gone in the first day and had it cleaned out, it would
> have only been about $70-90.

Well she did not know what she was doing. She did not clean it properly,
did not use antiseptic wash and prophylactic antibiotics, most likely.
There is so much information on the web that is high quality and can
lead you to exercise the SAME treatment that a professional would
implement. You can even get most drugs if you look around and you don't
have to pay the excess surcharges on medications these jackasses mark up
to increase their profit margins.

>
>
>>
>>Some people can't even afford human health insurance so it's really
>>unreasonable to expect them to wisk to the vet for every little
>>thing.
>
> We are still responsible for them. I have had tough times when dealing
> with vet issues. I had a cat with an abcess, and the bill was $243
> that day. You know what I did? I didn't mail two checks for bills I
> had planned to mail. I sent them a week late and got dinged with late
> fees. It was worth it though.
>
> When Kira came down sick, I knew I would need to get tests done, and i
> know it would be more than the $100 I had available. So, I went to my
> bank and got a quick loan for $350 which charges a $35 fee. I went to
> the vet and made decisions based on my cat's health, not the amount of
> money in my pocket. It ended up being about $250, and I had an
> accurate diagnosis (which required bloodwork), medicine, and a
> treatment plan.
>
> Other times, I have had to wait on something, sell something, borrow
> money, or just eat cheaper meals for awhile. There are ways to get
> money in a hurry.

You won't see any vets in Tucson crimping their life style to help
animals, so why should you? Did I say any? Thats a bad word, substitute
95%. The difference is they have a good earning capacity and many pet
owners do not. The difference is they are supposedly in the profession
to help animals, when, in fact, their primary motive is making money.

>
>>Just because a person is poor is no reason not to have a pet.
>
> Being poor is not an excuse for neglecting responsibility.

Being a vet is not excuse for being an uncaring profit sucking quack who
does not really care about animals, but worships the almighty dollar
either.

>
>>A good pet is probably worth its keep for its effects on the well
>>being of the pet owner.
>
> Wow. They are good to keep around for the health of the human, but
> their own health isn't worth a vet trip? That's really sad.

As I said, if your intelligent and can read, most problems you can treat
on your own and I will be offering a web site group to lighten the
pocket books of these Quacks who have no medical ethics.

>
> I figure the vet bills I have encountered, usually more when they are
> older, are a small price to pay for what they have given me over the
> years. I owe them.

And I figure you another member of the Sheeple species.

u
November 1st 07, 11:31 PM
Meghan Noecker > wrote in
:

> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:36:31 +0200 (CEST), u > wrote:
>
>>Many of the people in these usenet pets groups work in Veterinarian
>>Clinics, which makes them biased.
>>
>>In my city of Tucson, Arizona it is very difficult to find a Vet that
>>will agree to reduced cost services, or even payment plans to low
>>income pet owners,regardless of the circumstances. Their motto might
>>as well be PROFIT FIRST, ANIMAL WELFARE SECOND. Many of these outfits
>>are run by corporations, are bloated practices or have greedy
>>practitioners.
>>
>
> Has it occurred to you that people bring in their pets and then refuse
> to pay? That vets have been cheated many times in the past and can't
> just work for free? They have rent to pay, equipment to pay for,
> employees to pay, etc.

First case, I paid in CASH 80% of the bill. Thought they were going to
call the cops on me when I asked them to bill me the remaining 20%.

2nd case, they told me on the phone they would set up payment plan and
when I got there they refused treatment unless I applied for a credit
card with some 3rd party shyster corporation they had some kick back
arrangement with.

It is quite obvious that vets in Tucson are in practice to make money
FIRST and help animals SECOND. No doubt about, aided and abetted by a
State Gov. that does little or nothing to enforce professional standards
the the field of veterinary medicine.

>
> My own vet has a sign that says all payment due at time of service,
> but he has done payment plans for larger bills. The sign is there for
> new customers that could be deadbeats. He has the option to allow
> payment plans for long time customers who are known to be good
> customers.

When an animal is sick a professional's first obligation is to help the
sick and worry about the money later. But these vets today are not
professional, end of story.

>
>
> How many other services are done with a bill system later? How many of
> those can you walk into the business, get the service, and walk
> out,with your item, without giving banking and/or credit info?

The difference is that vets are *ostensibly* medical professionals and
should have taken oaths to place the welfare of animals first in their
priorities. This is the same for human doctors. If they want payment in
full at time of service or in advance, they should have become plumbers,
auto mechanics, or no, wait-LAWYERS. YEAH that is what these jackasses
should have taken up, they would fit right in with all the shyster
lawyers in practice.

>
> Why should the vet be any different? Why should they take the loss
> when other businesses get paid?
>

Meghan Noecker
November 1st 07, 11:39 PM
On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 23:31:32 +0100 (CET), u > wrote:


>The difference is that vets are *ostensibly* medical professionals and
>should have taken oaths to place the welfare of animals first in their
>priorities. This is the same for human doctors.

You are not living in reality.

A doctor is not required to give free medical care if somebody shows
up at their home. They are required to give care to life threatening
issues, and then they are reimburesed by the federal aid.

Until something like that is done for vets, it would not be reasonable
to expect the same.

Honestly, if they were required to help every animal without payment,
they would be working 24/7 with aline out front of all the people who
want free care.



I've taken in a cat who was hit by a car. Not my own cat. I told the
vet up front that it wasn't my cat. He was underweight, clearly a
stray. She treated him anyway. Many vets do go ahead and treat
emergencies. They just don't hand the cat back to the owner without
payment.


If you want vets to give the same services as people doctors, get into
politics and get funding for them. Don't expect vets to spends
hundreds a day for supplies that will never be reimbursed.


If you think it is so bad where you live, move somewhere else or buy
pet insurance. But don't attack every vet because you had a problem
with one or a few. You come across as a crazy person with sour grapes.

cybercat
November 1st 07, 11:43 PM
"u" > wrote
> Yeah, ur right,but don't u know that if your poor in Amerika

ohh, this is goooood. Amerikan KKKUNTZ!

u
November 2nd 07, 01:07 AM
Meghan Noecker > wrote in
:

> On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 23:31:32 +0100 (CET), u > wrote:
>
>
>>The difference is that vets are *ostensibly* medical professionals and
>>should have taken oaths to place the welfare of animals first in their
>>priorities. This is the same for human doctors.
>
> You are not living in reality.

If that's the case it's a reality I don't want to live in.
Apparently, you did not read the part about my having lived in other
cities than Tooscon (sic). In other places I have lived vets were
professionals and treated sick animals regardless of ability to pay.
Only in this Godforsaken place of Tucson have I run into such sleazy
practitioners.

>
> A doctor is not required to give free medical care if somebody shows
> up at their home. They are required to give care to life threatening
> issues, and then they are reimburesed by the federal aid.

Lots of physicians give free treatment and they don't beat you over the
head if you cannot pay everything at once. It's called the Hippocratic
Oath, or are you going to say that is not based in reality also? Federal
aid is not given to individual physicians but to charity hospitals and
only to cover charity patients.

>
> Until something like that is done for vets, it would not be reasonable
> to expect the same.

Vet schools and state licensing boards should require a certain
percentage of a vets practice be pro bono. They even do this in the
legal profession, so I'm guessing Tucson vets are on a lower rung on the
moral ladder than lawyers, and believe me that is a hard distinction to
accomplish.

>
> Honestly, if they were required to help every animal without payment,
> they would be working 24/7 with aline out front of all the people who
> want free care.

Your thinking is a bit loose here. Nowhere did I suggest vets accept all
animals without any payment, or free services. That is just a smoke
screen argument offered because you cannot respond to the real issue.
Vets who place profits ahead of animal welfare. Vets who are business
men FIRST and doctors SECOND.
>
>
>
> I've taken in a cat who was hit by a car. Not my own cat. I told the
> vet up front that it wasn't my cat. He was underweight, clearly a
> stray. She treated him anyway. Many vets do go ahead and treat
> emergencies. They just don't hand the cat back to the owner without
> payment.

That would not happen in Tucson. They'd let the cat die, EVEN if it was
suffering.

>
>
> If you want vets to give the same services as people doctors, get into
> politics and get funding for them. Don't expect vets to spends
> hundreds a day for supplies that will never be reimbursed.
>
>
> If you think it is so bad where you live, move somewhere else or buy
> pet insurance. But don't attack every vet because you had a problem
> with one or a few. You come across as a crazy person with sour grapes.
>

Not attacking EVERY vet, only the 95% of them that practice in Tucson,
Arizona, where there is no regulation of professional practices in the
field in this aspect. The State licensing board here even disavows any
control over what they call "business practices" and implies that the
vet here in Arizona can practice unethical business policies as long as
they are not in the domain of medical treatment. In other words the AZ
state licensing board offers protection for these quacks allowing them
to do any unethical thing they way as long as it does not involve direct
medical treatment.

Attention any sleazball unethical unprofessional vet reading this. Want
to practice with impunity? Come to Tucson, Arizona, you are welcome.

Meghan Noecker
November 2nd 07, 02:52 AM
On 1 Nov 2007 22:57:46 GMT, Cheryl >
wrote:

>On Thu 01 Nov 2007 06:39:56p, Meghan Noecker wrote in
>rec.pets.cats.health+behav

>> Honestly, if they were required to help every animal without
>> payment, they would be working 24/7 with aline out front of all
>> the people who want free care.
>>
>And the paying customers would be making up for the deadbeats in
>higher vet care costs.
>>

I was thinking that at first, but then I realized it would be worse.
Prices would be raised for those who actually paid. But even then,
vets would go out of business, unable to get enough paying customers
while using up supplies and time on all the deadbeats, which would
also increase as people line up to abuse the system. And that would
also make it hard to get in. You'd be lined up behind all the people
who weren't paying and waiting til the last minute to get care for
things that could have been treated.

And then there would be lawsuits from people claiming their pets
didn't get helped fast enough because they were poor.

It would be a huge mess.

I don't see any problem in giving discount services to those who
really need it. But it should be at a vet receiving tax money from
licenses, or up to the vet to decide.

I go to a private vet who has been there for over 30 years, has his
own place, his own equipment, no corporate people to answer to. And I
am very happy there. I can go in without an appointment and I am
helped in order of arrival (unless there is an emergency, and I have
no problem with that). I get good individual service. I have never
been asked for payment in advance, just when I am ready to leave. And
I was told I could do payments when the possibilty of expensive
treatment came up.

My vet has also told me when certain tests and treatments were not
needed, thus saving me money. And he sent me home with a fluid pack to
give my cat over the next week at home rather than have me come back
for daily treatment (saving me money and making it easier on me and my
cat).

If it hadn't become so common for people to abuse the system and be
deadbeats on payment, then the vets wouldn't have to resort to strict
payment policies.

I do photography, and I just learned the hard way that I need to
rewrite my policies concerning orders and refunds. A lady had me
photograph 4 cats for her, ordered the photos just fine, then
contacted me 2 months after receiving the photos to claim that they
were washed out, and she needed a new set or a refund. They were not
washed out, and it shouldn't have taken 2 months to notice, but I was
stuck redoing the order or give a refund for risk of a complaint. I
know that she was just trying to get a free set. I have confirmed that
she is known for being difficult and demanding. I certainly won't be
doing any orders for her in the future. But I am still worried that
she will complain yet again. I did tell her she had 10 days to get
both orders postmarked and returned to me. I will not redo her order
again. But I now need to set a specific return policy with dates so
that I never have to put up with this again.

Once the have the order, even if they return it, they have the ability
to scan the photos (or download the CD), so returning it doesn't mean
they didn't keep the photos and use them. So, it is possible for
somebody to pay me, get my work, and then demand a refund, while
keeping my work.

I also had a recent customer email me and ask me to post proofs for
the 4th time in 2 years, always promising an order, but never
ordering. It became pretty clear to me that she was just asking me to
post the photos anytime her stallion was being advertised for breeding
and later for sale. She could then direct people to my website and
usemy work without paying. She was highly offended when I refused ti
post them yet again. But what should I do? Just let people walk all
over me and use my work for free?

As a business owner, I have to protect my investments and my work.
Sometimes, this means that my policies have to be more strict than I
would like.