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View Full Version : Vets need to be consulted


MaryL
November 12th 07, 01:58 AM
I seldom crosspost, but I am doing so this time because I have seen the same
problem over-and-over-again on each of the "cats" newsgroups I read. That
is, someone will post a message to us asking, "What is the problem?" - or
possibly - "What can I do?"

These are good forums for general information and advice, but we are *not*
veterinarians. Moreover, many of the questions relate to problems that even
a professional could not solve without an on-site examination. Worse, some
of the problems have either been neglected for a long time or involve issues
that clearly call for immediate medical care.

Please, folks, use your brains (and your compassion)! Call a vet ASAP when
you detect a problem, in the same way that you would want medical care for
yourself. You are not only causing additional pain/discomfort for your cat
when you delay and wait for unknown people on a newsgroup to respond, but
the irony is that you often cause additional expense for yourself. Many
problems that can be easily and inexpensively remedied can quickly become
much more serious and more expensive when treatment is delayed.

MaryL

Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'<
Duffy: http://tinyurl.com/cslwf
Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o
Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e

Sherry
November 12th 07, 02:15 AM
On Nov 11, 6:58 pm, "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER>
wrote:
> I seldom crosspost, but I am doing so this time because I have seen the same
> problem over-and-over-again on each of the "cats" newsgroups I read. That
> is, someone will post a message to us asking, "What is the problem?" - or
> possibly - "What can I do?"
>
> These are good forums for general information and advice, but we are *not*
> veterinarians. Moreover, many of the questions relate to problems that even
> a professional could not solve without an on-site examination. Worse, some
> of the problems have either been neglected for a long time or involve issues
> that clearly call for immediate medical care.
>
> Please, folks, use your brains (and your compassion)! Call a vet ASAP when
> you detect a problem, in the same way that you would want medical care for
> yourself. You are not only causing additional pain/discomfort for your cat
> when you delay and wait for unknown people on a newsgroup to respond, but
> the irony is that you often cause additional expense for yourself. Many
> problems that can be easily and inexpensively remedied can quickly become
> much more serious and more expensive when treatment is delayed.
>
> MaryL
>
Absolutely. Just as personal anecdotal evidence; *every time* I have
delayed or put
off a trip to the vet the problem only grew worse, and cost the cat
more suffering
and a higher vet bill in the long run. Like everybody else, I hate
putting them through
the trauma of the vet trip, and of course, like many others, I am on a
tight budget.
Most recent was Bosley's chin acne, usually a minor thing. If I'd
taken proper care
of him at the beginning of the outbreak, it wouldn't have turned into
a huge, swollen,
infected abscess.

Sherry

John Doe
November 12th 07, 03:07 AM
When you think a veterinarian needs to be consulted, you can simply
reply stating that opinion.




"MaryL" <stancole1 yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:

> I seldom crosspost, but I am doing so this time because I have seen the same
> problem over-and-over-again on each of the "cats" newsgroups I read. That
> is, someone will post a message to us asking, "What is the problem?" - or
> possibly - "What can I do?"
>
> These are good forums for general information and advice, but we are *not*
> veterinarians. Moreover, many of the questions relate to problems that even
> a professional could not solve without an on-site examination. Worse, some
> of the problems have either been neglected for a long time or involve issues
> that clearly call for immediate medical care.
>
> Please, folks, use your brains (and your compassion)! Call a vet ASAP when
> you detect a problem, in the same way that you would want medical care for
> yourself. You are not only causing additional pain/discomfort for your cat
> when you delay and wait for unknown people on a newsgroup to respond, but
> the irony is that you often cause additional expense for yourself. Many
> problems that can be easily and inexpensively remedied can quickly become
> much more serious and more expensive when treatment is delayed.
>
> MaryL
>
> Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'<
> Duffy: http://tinyurl.com/cslwf
> Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o
> Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e
>
>
>
>
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> From: "MaryL" <stancole1 yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER>
> Newsgroups: alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.anecdotes,rec .pets.cats.health+behav
> Subject: Vets need to be consulted
> Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 18:58:06 -0600
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>

MaryL
November 12th 07, 03:38 AM
"John Doe" > wrote in message
. net...
>
> When you think a veterinarian needs to be consulted, you can simply
> reply stating that opinion.
>
>
>
Of course. And I have done that, many times -- and so have many others.
The point is, that really shouldn't be necessary, at least not in many
cases. It should be common sense to consult a vet under the types of
conditions that I have seen posted -- again, numerous times. This is not
directed at one person in particular. People need to *think.*

MaryL

John Doe
November 12th 07, 05:50 AM
"MaryL" <stancole1 yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:

> "John Doe" <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote in message
> news:MzOZi.68190$YL5.20590 newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>>
>> When you think a veterinarian needs to be consulted, you can simply
>> reply stating that opinion.

> It should be common sense to consult a vet under the types of
> conditions that I have seen posted -- again, numerous times.
> People need to *think.*

Why are there so many stray cats suffering and dying young in the
not-so-great outdoors? Why do animals eat each other alive out
there?

Why spend $10,000 at a veterinarian clinic on two pet cats (and then
post about it here) when instead dozens of stray cats could have
been saved from being slaughtered?

It depends on the circumstance, and that's where the advice belongs,
in my opinion.

Have fun.










>
> MaryL
>
>
>
>
> Path: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net!newsdbm04.news.prodigy. net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!newscon 04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!pd7cy1no!pd7cy2no! pd7cy5no!shaw.ca!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newsho sting.com!post01.iad01!news.suddenlink.net!not-for-mail
> From: "MaryL" <stancole1 yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER>
> Newsgroups: alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.anecdotes,rec .pets.cats.health+behav
> References: <4737a515$0$5284$bbae4d71 news.suddenlink.net> <MzOZi.68190$YL5.20590 newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>
> Subject: Re: Vets need to be consulted
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>
>

MaryL
November 12th 07, 06:08 AM
"John Doe" > wrote in message
et...
> "MaryL" <stancole1 yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>
>> "John Doe" <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:MzOZi.68190$YL5.20590 newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>>>
>>> When you think a veterinarian needs to be consulted, you can simply
>>> reply stating that opinion.
>
>> It should be common sense to consult a vet under the types of
>> conditions that I have seen posted -- again, numerous times.
>> People need to *think.*
>
> Why are there so many stray cats suffering and dying young in the
> not-so-great outdoors? Why do animals eat each other alive out
> there?
>
> Why spend $10,000 at a veterinarian clinic on two pet cats (and then
> post about it here) when instead dozens of stray cats could have
> been saved from being slaughtered?
>
> It depends on the circumstance, and that's where the advice belongs,
> in my opinion.
>
> Have fun.
>
>
>
>>
>> MaryL
>>
>>
>>

And what does this have to do with the message I posted?

MaryL

mncats
November 12th 07, 06:30 AM
On Nov 11, 11:08 pm, "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER>
wrote:
> "John Doe" > wrote in message
>
> et...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "MaryL" <stancole1 yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>
> >> "John Doe" <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote in message
> >> news:MzOZi.68190$YL5.20590 newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>
> >>> When you think a veterinarian needs to be consulted, you can simply
> >>> reply stating that opinion.
>
> >> It should be common sense to consult a vet under the types of
> >> conditions that I have seen posted -- again, numerous times.
> >> People need to *think.*
>
> > Why are there so many stray cats suffering and dying young in the
> > not-so-great outdoors? Why do animals eat each other alive out
> > there?
>
> > Why spend $10,000 at a veterinarian clinic on two pet cats (and then
> > post about it here) when instead dozens of stray cats could have
> > been saved from being slaughtered?
>
> > It depends on the circumstance, and that's where the advice belongs,
> > in my opinion.
>
> > Have fun.
>
> >> MaryL
>
> And what does this have to do with the message I posted?
>
> MaryL- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Mary I agree 100%. Its almost like there should be some kinda list
like

if you see your cat with a nose bleed - take it to the vet
if you see your cat sneezing, coughing & congested - take it to a vet
if you see your cat hasen't eaten in a few days - take it to a vet

get the picture?

Meghan Noecker
November 12th 07, 07:13 AM
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 20:38:58 -0600, "MaryL"
-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:

>
>"John Doe" > wrote in message
. net...
>>
>> When you think a veterinarian needs to be consulted, you can simply
>> reply stating that opinion.
>>
>>
>>
>Of course. And I have done that, many times -- and so have many others.
>The point is, that really shouldn't be necessary, at least not in many
>cases. It should be common sense to consult a vet under the types of
>conditions that I have seen posted -- again, numerous times. This is not
>directed at one person in particular. People need to *think.*
>


I think the majority of these posts are people that are just too cheap
to go to the vet, and they hope we will solve their problem for free.
Many of them claim to not have enough money to go, but they have money
for other things.

I know what it is like to be tight with money. I have paid other bills
late (and thus incurred late fees) to make sure my cats got the care
they required. I have also gotten a short term loan, sold items, and
borrowed money. I don't regret it. My cats and dogs are worth it to
me.

Unfortunately, a lot of people don't feel the same way. They won't go
to the vet if they think it can be solved by a free online question.
Or they won't go to the overnight vet because it costs too much. Or
worse, they won't even call the vet because they think it takes too
long to look up phone numbers. Gee, if they had a regular vet, they
wouldn't need to look up the phone number, and the vet wold be happy
to assist a regular customer.

But hey, according to them, we are the true bad guys because all we do
is suggest they go to the vet, the one thing they don't want to hear.

MaryL
November 12th 07, 07:46 AM
"Meghan Noecker" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 20:38:58 -0600, "MaryL"
> -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>
>>
>>"John Doe" > wrote in message
. net...
>>>
>>> When you think a veterinarian needs to be consulted, you can simply
>>> reply stating that opinion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Of course. And I have done that, many times -- and so have many others.
>>The point is, that really shouldn't be necessary, at least not in many
>>cases. It should be common sense to consult a vet under the types of
>>conditions that I have seen posted -- again, numerous times. This is not
>>directed at one person in particular. People need to *think.*
>>
>
>
> I think the majority of these posts are people that are just too cheap
> to go to the vet, and they hope we will solve their problem for free.
> Many of them claim to not have enough money to go, but they have money
> for other things.
>
> I know what it is like to be tight with money. I have paid other bills
> late (and thus incurred late fees) to make sure my cats got the care
> they required. I have also gotten a short term loan, sold items, and
> borrowed money. I don't regret it. My cats and dogs are worth it to
> me.
>
> Unfortunately, a lot of people don't feel the same way. They won't go
> to the vet if they think it can be solved by a free online question.
> Or they won't go to the overnight vet because it costs too much. Or
> worse, they won't even call the vet because they think it takes too
> long to look up phone numbers. Gee, if they had a regular vet, they
> wouldn't need to look up the phone number, and the vet wold be happy
> to assist a regular customer.
>
> But hey, according to them, we are the true bad guys because all we do
> is suggest they go to the vet, the one thing they don't want to hear.
>

Unfortunately, I think you are correct. There are some occasions when I
think it is a newbie who really doesn't know what to do, but that is a
rarity. Like you, I went through periods when I borrowed money to take care
of my cats (actually, one cat at a time). I got my first cat when I was in
graduate school, and my cat needed emergency surgery. I slowly paid the
bill off, and it was paid in full after about three years -- but I made
arrangements for it, and it was done. And it was well worth it! He was
less than a year old at that time, but he lived to be just a little less
than 20 years old. He was wonderful!

MaryL

November 12th 07, 07:52 AM
Meghan Noecker > wrote:

> "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:

> >Of course. And I have done that, many times -- and so have many others.
> >The point is, that really shouldn't be necessary, at least not in many
> >cases. It should be common sense to consult a vet under the types of
> >conditions that I have seen posted -- again, numerous times. This is not
> >directed at one person in particular. People need to *think.*

Not everyone who reads and posts to these newsgroups has been
reading them a long time, so not everyone is going to know that this
is the standard answer, or that it's the best advice.

Also, there is nothing common about so-called common sense. If you
were taught to think sensibly, be grateful rather than judgemental of
those who weren't so lucky.

> Unfortunately, a lot of people don't feel the same way. They won't go
> to the vet if they think it can be solved by a free online question.
> Or they won't go to the overnight vet because it costs too much. Or
> worse, they won't even call the vet because they think it takes too
> long to look up phone numbers. Gee, if they had a regular vet, they
> wouldn't need to look up the phone number, and the vet wold be happy
> to assist a regular customer.

> But hey, according to them, we are the true bad guys because all we do
> is suggest they go to the vet, the one thing they don't want to hear.

Why make a big moral issue out of something that could simply be an
innocent, or perhaps ignorant, but not "cheap" or "neglectful" question.
I know that assuming someone means well isn't as much fun as getting
on a moral high horse, I sure as hell get sick of the halo displays.

Yeah, that person should take their cat to a vet. Maybe they didn't
realize this. Now, hopefully, they do. (If not, then that's the time
to yell at them...)

Meghan Noecker
November 12th 07, 10:38 AM
On 12 Nov 2007 06:52:19 GMT, wrote:

>
>Why make a big moral issue out of something that could simply be an
>innocent, or perhaps ignorant, but not "cheap" or "neglectful" question.
>I know that assuming someone means well isn't as much fun as getting
>on a moral high horse, I sure as hell get sick of the halo displays.
>

I usually do just tell them to go to the vet. It is when these idiots
start arguing back that we didn't give them any good advice, as if we
failed them. Then I get irritated with them. What did they expect?
This is not a group of vets.

And even real vets cannot diagnose very well long distance. Most
symptoms can point to various problems. A cat losing weight can have a
multitide of causes, many of them serious illnesses. If the owner of
the cat really doesn't have a good idea what the problem might be,
then bloodwork is the best way to see what is going on.

I also tend to read posts on craigslist in the pet category, and there
are posts every day asking for free vet advice and/or donations to
cover vet expenses.

I had a lady approach me at the store where I wrok and ask my advice
about her cat (she knew I was a cat lady). What she described sounded
like a prolapsed uterus (stuff sticking out still a couple days after
having kittens). I told her she really needs to take the cat to the
vet. She insisted she couldn't afford to do so. She had fancy nails
and colored hair, but she couldn't afford a trip to the vet.

Sherry
November 12th 07, 02:50 PM
On Nov 12, 12:52 am, wrote:
> Meghan Noecker > wrote:
>
> > "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>
> > >Of course. And I have done that, many times -- and so have many others.
> > >The point is, that really shouldn't be necessary, at least not in many
> > >cases. It should be common sense to consult a vet under the types of
> > >conditions that I have seen posted -- again, numerous times. This is not
> > >directed at one person in particular. People need to *think.*
>
> Not everyone who reads and posts to these newsgroups has been
> reading them a long time, so not everyone is going to know that this
> is the standard answer, or that it's the best advice.
>
> Also, there is nothing common about so-called common sense. If you
> were taught to think sensibly, be grateful rather than judgemental of
> those who weren't so lucky.
>
> > Unfortunately, a lot of people don't feel the same way. They won't go
> > to the vet if they think it can be solved by a free online question.
> > Or they won't go to the overnight vet because it costs too much. Or
> > worse, they won't even call the vet because they think it takes too
> > long to look up phone numbers. Gee, if they had a regular vet, they
> > wouldn't need to look up the phone number, and the vet wold be happy
> > to assist a regular customer.
>
> > But hey, according to them, we are the true bad guys because all we do
> > is suggest they go to the vet, the one thing they don't want to hear.
>
> Why make a big moral issue out of something that could simply be an
> innocent, or perhaps ignorant, but not "cheap" or "neglectful" question.
> I know that assuming someone means well isn't as much fun as getting
> on a moral high horse, I sure as hell get sick of the halo displays.
>
> Yeah, that person should take their cat to a vet. Maybe they didn't
> realize this. Now, hopefully, they do. (If not, then that's the time
> to yell at them...)

I don't think Mary really so much directed her post to rpca, as this
group really doesn't discuss health issues that much anyway. Regulars
here (obviously) don't hesitate to seek a vet.
I get what she's saying. Boy, do I get it, and it makes me really
angry.
I see people *constantly* drive up in $40,000 vehicles, with the hair,/
nails
like Meghan said, and say, "I can't afford.....(fill in)". It's the
people who
don't WANT to afford. It's the people who want shelters, or vets, to
take
responsibility for their animals that burns me up.

Using a newsgroup to compare notes with others, or to arm yourself
with questions for your vet, is a good idea. Using it as a substitute
for vet care isn't. We all know that already.

Whose halo display are you referring to, specifically? IMO, Mary
was venting as much as anything else. Is she not allowed that?

Sherry

Wendy
November 12th 07, 05:39 PM
"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
. ..
>

>
> Unfortunately, I think you are correct. There are some occasions when I
> think it is a newbie who really doesn't know what to do, but that is a
> rarity. Like you, I went through periods when I borrowed money to take
> care of my cats (actually, one cat at a time). I got my first cat when I
> was in graduate school, and my cat needed emergency surgery. I slowly
> paid the bill off, and it was paid in full after about three years -- but
> I made arrangements for it, and it was done. And it was well worth it!
> He was less than a year old at that time, but he lived to be just a little
> less than 20 years old. He was wonderful!
>
> MaryL
>
>

I suppose it's a good idea to be a little patient until the OP shows
themselves to be one of the a**holes who are too cheap or stupid to have a
cat. There might be people who really don't know if their cat's problem
could wait until morning for the regular vet or if it's necessary to do the
emergency vet trip. There are other people who might not have access to 24/7
vet care and post to see if there is something they could/should be doing
until they can get the cat to the vet. Sometimes they get jumped on because
we have all come to expect the jerks. Cats barf from time to time when there
really isn't anything wrong. How do you know the difference between eating
too quickly or trying to kutz up a hair ball and some life threatening
illness?

I've fostered a couple of hundred cats and don't always know what I'm
dealing with and if it really requires a vet visit. Making the call to take
the cat to the emergency vet can be even trickier.

Wendy

November 12th 07, 08:03 PM
In rec.pets.cats.anecdotes Meghan Noecker > wrote:
> On 12 Nov 2007 06:52:19 GMT, wrote:

> >
> >Why make a big moral issue out of something that could simply be an
> >innocent, or perhaps ignorant, but not "cheap" or "neglectful" question.
> >I know that assuming someone means well isn't as much fun as getting
> >on a moral high horse, I sure as hell get sick of the halo displays.
> >

> I usually do just tell them to go to the vet. It is when these idiots
> start arguing back that we didn't give them any good advice, as if we
> failed them. Then I get irritated with them. What did they expect?
> This is not a group of vets.

Well, like I said, if they don't take good advice after being politely
told what they need to do (as well as what will *not* work), that's the
time to yell at them. :)

Joyce

CatNipped[_2_]
November 12th 07, 08:05 PM
"Sherry" > wrote in message
ups.com...

> I don't think Mary really so much directed her post to rpca, as this
> group really doesn't discuss health issues that much anyway. Regulars
> here (obviously) don't hesitate to seek a vet.

Oh, man, you can say that again! I've spent over $4,000 in vet bills since
June of this year!! I don't regret a penny of it (well maybe a bit for the
time I brought Archer in thinking he had gangrene when in actuality is was
dirty tape from the cast just removed). ;>

Hugs,

CatNipped

Sherry
November 12th 07, 09:26 PM
On Nov 12, 1:05 pm, "CatNipped" > wrote:
> "Sherry" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > I don't think Mary really so much directed her post to rpca, as this
> > group really doesn't discuss health issues that much anyway. Regulars
> > here (obviously) don't hesitate to seek a vet.
>
> Oh, man, you can say that again! I've spent over $4,000 in vet bills since
> June of this year!! I don't regret a penny of it (well maybe a bit for the
> time I brought Archer in thinking he had gangrene when in actuality is was
> dirty tape from the cast just removed). ;>
>
> Hugs,
>
> CatNipped

I knew you'd spent a bundle. You took on a lot of health issues with
your new babies,
*besides* Archer's accident. It can really add up. What I just thought
about reading
your post -- I don't think I spent that much having bypass surgery!
Veterinary
medicine has come SO far. So much hightech equipment, complicated
procedures
that can now save a life that we didn't even have 20 years ago. We
expect to
pay big bucks for good care, but like with *our* medical stuff, we
really need
good pet care insurance now.

Sherry

CatNipped[_2_]
November 12th 07, 09:52 PM
"Sherry" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Nov 12, 1:05 pm, "CatNipped" > wrote:
>> "Sherry" > wrote in message
>>
>> ups.com...
>>
>> > I don't think Mary really so much directed her post to rpca, as this
>> > group really doesn't discuss health issues that much anyway. Regulars
>> > here (obviously) don't hesitate to seek a vet.
>>
>> Oh, man, you can say that again! I've spent over $4,000 in vet bills
>> since
>> June of this year!! I don't regret a penny of it (well maybe a bit for
>> the
>> time I brought Archer in thinking he had gangrene when in actuality is
>> was
>> dirty tape from the cast just removed). ;>
>>
>> Hugs,
>>
>> CatNipped
>
> I knew you'd spent a bundle. You took on a lot of health issues with
> your new babies,
> *besides* Archer's accident. It can really add up. What I just thought
> about reading
> your post -- I don't think I spent that much having bypass surgery!
> Veterinary
> medicine has come SO far. So much hightech equipment, complicated
> procedures
> that can now save a life that we didn't even have 20 years ago. We
> expect to
> pay big bucks for good care, but like with *our* medical stuff, we
> really need
> good pet care insurance now.
>
> Sherry
>

I hear you! I don't get it because most I've seen don't cover regular
check-ups or vaccinations - and, knock wood, my clowder has never had any
health issues until now. I'd probably have ended up paying *WAY* more in
pet insurance over the years than I spent this year for all the problems.

Hugs,

CatNipped

November 12th 07, 10:15 PM
In rec.pets.cats.anecdotes Sherry > wrote:

> On Nov 12, 1:05 pm, "CatNipped" > wrote:

>> Oh, man, you can say that again! I've spent over $4,000 in vet
>> bills since June of this year!! I don't regret a penny of it
>> (well maybe a bit for the time I brought Archer in thinking he
>> had gangrene when in actuality is was dirty tape from the cast
>> just removed). ;>

> I knew you'd spent a bundle. You took on a lot of health issues with
> your new babies, *besides* Archer's accident. It can really add up.

How *is* Archer, by the way?

Joyce

MaryL
November 12th 07, 11:21 PM
"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> "Sherry" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> On Nov 12, 1:05 pm, "CatNipped" > wrote:
>>> "Sherry" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> ups.com...
>>>
>>> > I don't think Mary really so much directed her post to rpca, as this
>>> > group really doesn't discuss health issues that much anyway. Regulars
>>> > here (obviously) don't hesitate to seek a vet.
>>>
>>> Oh, man, you can say that again! I've spent over $4,000 in vet bills
>>> since
>>> June of this year!! I don't regret a penny of it (well maybe a bit for
>>> the
>>> time I brought Archer in thinking he had gangrene when in actuality is
>>> was
>>> dirty tape from the cast just removed). ;>
>>>
>>> Hugs,
>>>
>>> CatNipped
>>
>> I knew you'd spent a bundle. You took on a lot of health issues with
>> your new babies,
>> *besides* Archer's accident. It can really add up. What I just thought
>> about reading
>> your post -- I don't think I spent that much having bypass surgery!
>> Veterinary
>> medicine has come SO far. So much hightech equipment, complicated
>> procedures
>> that can now save a life that we didn't even have 20 years ago. We
>> expect to
>> pay big bucks for good care, but like with *our* medical stuff, we
>> really need
>> good pet care insurance now.
>>
>> Sherry
>>
>
> I hear you! I don't get it because most I've seen don't cover regular
> check-ups or vaccinations - and, knock wood, my clowder has never had any
> health issues until now. I'd probably have ended up paying *WAY* more in
> pet insurance over the years than I spent this year for all the problems.
>
> Hugs,
>
> CatNipped
>

I'll take this opportunity to mentione what I have done to provide for my
furbabies (and many others have done the same thing). Like you said, pet
insurance can cost more than treatment. Moreover, the "fine print" in pet
insurance policies often places an unreasonably low maximum figure for
certain ailments (and it is often a *lifetime* maximum), costs go up and
coverage goes down as our pets age (which is just when they are more likely
to need medical care), and many policies cover only certain specified
problems. So, I opted to "self insure." Several years ago, I started to
put a small amount into a savings account (actually, a money market fund
because the interest is better). That account is reserved just for Holly
and Duffy, and I have never touched it because it is only for emergencies
and large expenses, not for routine care. Of course, this works best if you
start when your furbabies are relatively young and healthy. That give you
time for the account to grow before you are likely to need it. Even that is
not guaranteed, though, because we can never be sure about when our cats may
become sick or have an accident.

MaryL

---MIKE---
November 13th 07, 12:05 AM
MaryL wrote:

>>So, I opted to "self insure." Several
>> years ago, I started to put a small
>> amount into a savings account
>> (actually, a money market fund
>> because the interest is better). That
>> account is reserved just for Holly and
>> Duffy, and I have never touched it

I have done the same thing. I put $300 a year into a savings account
reserved for cat emergencies.


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')

CatNipped[_2_]
November 13th 07, 01:07 AM
> wrote in message
...
> In rec.pets.cats.anecdotes Sherry > wrote:
>
> > On Nov 12, 1:05 pm, "CatNipped" > wrote:
>
> >> Oh, man, you can say that again! I've spent over $4,000 in vet
> >> bills since June of this year!! I don't regret a penny of it
> >> (well maybe a bit for the time I brought Archer in thinking he
> >> had gangrene when in actuality is was dirty tape from the cast
> >> just removed). ;>
>
> > I knew you'd spent a bundle. You took on a lot of health issues with
> > your new babies, *besides* Archer's accident. It can really add up.
>
> How *is* Archer, by the way?

Back up to speed - kitten speed, that is (IOW light-speed). He doesn't even
have a limp - kittens are *SO* resiliant! Here he is wrestling with his
bro-fur weekend before last:
http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/Wrestling/Wrestling.mpg


Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> Joyce

CatNipped[_2_]
November 13th 07, 01:09 AM
"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> In rec.pets.cats.anecdotes Sherry > wrote:
>>
>> > On Nov 12, 1:05 pm, "CatNipped" > wrote:
>>
>> >> Oh, man, you can say that again! I've spent over $4,000 in vet
>> >> bills since June of this year!! I don't regret a penny of it
>> >> (well maybe a bit for the time I brought Archer in thinking he
>> >> had gangrene when in actuality is was dirty tape from the cast
>> >> just removed). ;>
>>
>> > I knew you'd spent a bundle. You took on a lot of health issues with
>> > your new babies, *besides* Archer's accident. It can really add up.
>>
>> How *is* Archer, by the way?
>
> Back up to speed - kitten speed, that is (IOW light-speed). He doesn't
> even have a limp - kittens are *SO* resiliant! Here he is wrestling with
> his bro-fur weekend before last:
> http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/Wrestling/Wrestling.mpg

Sorry, should have been
http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/Wrestling/Wrestling.mpg

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
>
> Hugs,
>
> CatNipped
>
>>
>> Joyce
>
>

Tara Legale
November 13th 07, 01:31 AM
I just don't see the harm is asking a question. I know when I have asked
questions I am not looking for diehard vet advise, I am simply looking for
opinions, and even more so, reaching out to others who may have experienced
something similar to whatever my concern or question is about. I suggest if
you have no personal experience or helpful opinion, that you not reply to
the OP at all. And it is possible to simply say that you feel they should
see a vet, and not go ape**** on their ass for asking a question.

Upscale
November 13th 07, 02:13 AM
"Tara Legale" > wrote in message
> I just don't see the harm is asking a question. I know when I have asked
> questions I am not looking for diehard vet advise, I am simply looking for
> opinions, and even more so, reaching out to others who may have
experienced
> something similar to whatever my concern or question is about.

You're right up to a point, but it's likely you haven't seen some of the
questions asked here and asked much more frequently than you might imagine.
There have been people that ask "what should I do" when their pet has been
coughing up blood, is urinating blood, has a big raw area on their stomach
or is screaming in pain and similar stuff. In fact, there are times when
it's so obvious the animal needs to be taken to a vet that the only way to
get them to do so is to go ape**** on their ass and snap them out of their
ignorance, if only for a few hours so they take the animal to a vet like
they should have done a week ago.

Some people truly are too self absorbed to responsibly own a pet. Yet, they
appear here on regular basis asking "what should I do" when it's completely
obvious what they should have done a long time ago. To me, that's some form
of ignorance, stupidity or a combination of both and requires only one type
of reply to them. And if it makes them angry at me or someone else for
saying it to them, then fine as long as they take the animal a vet as soon
as humanly possible.

m
November 13th 07, 10:55 PM
John Doe > wrote in
et:

> "MaryL" <stancole1 yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>
>> "John Doe" <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:MzOZi.68190$YL5.20590 newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>>>
>>> When you think a veterinarian needs to be consulted, you can simply
>>> reply stating that opinion.
>
>> It should be common sense to consult a vet under the types of
>> conditions that I have seen posted -- again, numerous times.
>> People need to *think.*

Yeah they need to *think* alright. Treat the animals yourself, plenty of
internet, medication and other resources available. You don't need to
see DOWE CHEETEM AND HOWE Vet Hospital. You CAN do it yourself.

>
> Why are there so many stray cats suffering and dying young in the
> not-so-great outdoors? Why do animals eat each other alive out
> there?

One reason is that these so called lovers of animals are more concerned
about $$$ then they are about eliminating suffering among homeless
animals.

>
> Why spend $10,000 at a veterinarian clinic on two pet cats (and then
> post about it here) when instead dozens of stray cats could have
> been saved from being slaughtered?

No reason whatsoever.

>
> It depends on the circumstance, and that's where the advice belongs,
> in my opinion.

Sure does and the circumstances are that our society values $$$ above
morality and professionalism. Those in the vet field need to stop
referring to themselves as professionals or go into another line of
work.

>
> Have fun.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> MaryL
>>
>>
>>
>>

l
November 13th 07, 11:01 PM
Meghan Noecker > wrote in
:

> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 20:38:58 -0600, "MaryL"
> -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>
>>
>>"John Doe" > wrote in message
. net...
>>>
>>> When you think a veterinarian needs to be consulted, you can simply
>>> reply stating that opinion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Of course. And I have done that, many times -- and so have many
>>others. The point is, that really shouldn't be necessary, at least not
>>in many cases. It should be common sense to consult a vet under the
>>types of conditions that I have seen posted -- again, numerous times.
>>This is not directed at one person in particular. People need to
>>*think.*
>>
>
>
> I think the majority of these posts are people that are just too cheap
> to go to the vet, and they hope we will solve their problem for free.
> Many of them claim to not have enough money to go, but they have money
> for other things.

And I think the majority of people like you need medication to think
straight.

>
> I know what it is like to be tight with money. I have paid other bills
> late (and thus incurred late fees) to make sure my cats got the care
> they required. I have also gotten a short term loan, sold items, and
> borrowed money. I don't regret it. My cats and dogs are worth it to
> me.

Maybe if these vets did not concern themselves with having the latest
technologically expensive equipment and helping more animals, less with
having bloated staffs and nice buildings and more with helping animals,
you would not need to go into debt to have your animals treated??


>
> Unfortunately, a lot of people don't feel the same way. They won't go
> to the vet if they think it can be solved by a free online question.
> Or they won't go to the overnight vet because it costs too much. Or
> worse, they won't even call the vet because they think it takes too
> long to look up phone numbers. Gee, if they had a regular vet, they
> wouldn't need to look up the phone number, and the vet wold be happy
> to assist a regular customer.

90% of animal problems can be prevented or treated by the owners IF they
have IQ's in the normal range and can read and THINK for themselves.
They don't need to accept these outrageous charges from charlatans who
put a "Dr." in front of their names and think they are fooling anyone.

>
> But hey, according to them, we are the true bad guys because all we do
> is suggest they go to the vet, the one thing they don't want to hear.

Maybe if vets actually cared about animal welfare, we'd be inclined to
use their services, but they do not and most should not even have been
admitted to veterinary schools who are complicit in flooding the market
with unethical "doctors".

p
November 13th 07, 11:06 PM
"CatNipped" > wrote in
:

> "Sherry" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
<snip>

>
> Oh, man, you can say that again! I've spent over $4,000 in vet bills

Good for you Sheeple. And I just showed another person where to get
information on how to treat her cat. Maybe we can put some of these
suckers and their KMART staff employees out of business or make them
move to some rural area where they will actually have to WORK for a
living.

>>
> Hugs,
>
> CatNipped
>
>

y[_2_]
November 13th 07, 11:11 PM
"Upscale" > wrote in
:

<snip>

And some people here are such dummies they cannot see what a racket
these vet practices are. It's a scam in many ways because a little
reading and effort results in the SAME treatment given by the pet owner
that the vet charges such exorbitant fees for, often approaching or
higher than for a human physician who at least must make an effort to
follow ethical canons. One example: URI/eye infection treated with
antibiotics, available from many sources at much lower cost than through
the vet. Cost: $23 for meds. Cost at vet? $50 for walking in the door
another $75 for meds. Payment due in full immediately or ELSE!

>
> Some people truly are too self absorbed to responsibly own a pet. Yet,
> they appear here on regular basis asking "what should I do" when it's
> completely obvious what they should have done a long time ago. To me,
> that's some form of ignorance, stupidity or a combination of both and
> requires only one type of reply to them. And if it makes them angry at
> me or someone else for saying it to them, then fine as long as they
> take the animal a vet as soon as humanly possible.
>
>
>

John Doe
November 14th 07, 09:22 AM
mncats > wrote:

> On Nov 11, 11:08 pm, "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER>
> wrote:
>> "John Doe" > wrote in message
>>
>> et...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > "MaryL" <stancole1 yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>>
>> >> "John Doe" <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote in message
>> >> news:MzOZi.68190$YL5.20590 newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>>
>> >>> When you think a veterinarian needs to be consulted, you can simply
>> >>> reply stating that opinion.
>>
>> >> It should be common sense to consult a vet under the types of
>> >> conditions that I have seen posted -- again, numerous times.
>> >> People need to *think.*
>>
>> > Why are there so many stray cats suffering and dying young in
>> > the not-so-great outdoors? Why do animals eat each other alive
>> > out there?
>>
>> > Why spend $10,000 at a veterinarian clinic on two pet cats (and
>> > then post about it here) when instead dozens of stray cats
>> > could have been saved from being slaughtered?
>>
>> > It depends on the circumstance, and that's where the advice
>> > belongs, in my opinion.
>>
>> > Have fun.
>>
>> >> MaryL
>>
>> And what does this have to do with the message I posted?
>>
>> MaryL- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Mary I agree 100%. Its almost like there should be some kinda list
> like
>
> if you see your cat with a nose bleed - take it to the vet
> if you see your cat sneezing, coughing & congested - take it to a vet
> if you see your cat hasen't eaten in a few days - take it to a vet
>
> get the picture?

Your cat is all that matters.
You do not care about stray/feral cats.
You want everyone else to be like you.
You're looking at only half of the picture.

John Doe
November 14th 07, 09:51 AM
wrote:
> In rec.pets.cats.anecdotes Meghan Noecker
> > On 12 Nov 2007 06:52:19 GMT, wrote:

> > >Why make a big moral issue out of something that could simply
> > >be an innocent, or perhaps ignorant, but not "cheap" or
> > >"neglectful" question. I know that assuming someone means well
> > >isn't as much fun as getting on a moral high horse, I sure as
> > >hell get sick of the halo displays.
> > >
>
> > I usually do just tell them to go to the vet. It is when these
> > idiots start arguing back that we didn't give them any good
> > advice, as if we failed them. Then I get irritated with them.
> > What did they expect? This is not a group of vets.
>
> Well, like I said, if they don't take good advice after being
> politely told what they need to do (as well as what will *not*
> work), that's the time to yell at them. :)

You know what's good for her, so you're going to bully her into
seeing things your way. That is guaranteed to fail on the Internet.












>
> Joyce
>

smoggy
November 14th 07, 07:21 PM
On 13 Nov, 00:31, "Tara Legale" > wrote:
> I just don't see the harm is asking a question. I know when I have asked
> questions I am not looking for diehard vet advise, I am simply looking for
> opinions, and even more so, reaching out to others who may have experienced
> something similar to whatever my concern or question is about. I suggest if
> you have no personal experience or helpful opinion, that you not reply to
> the OP at all. And it is possible to simply say that you feel they should
> see a vet, and not go ape**** on their ass for asking a question.

thanks tara,you have summed up exactly what i was about to post. i
wont post again.

Rhonda[_3_]
November 14th 07, 08:49 PM
I agree with everything you said, Tara.

Staying on a newsgroup long term takes patience with each new question
and each new personality. Most people asking what to do when their cats
are truly in an emergency are not the regulars -- they are the ones that
just pop in for advice. And they do -need- advice, even it it's "go to
the vet."

I can guarantee they won't be reading this discussion.

Rhonda

Tara Legale wrote:
> I just don't see the harm is asking a question. I know when I have asked
> questions I am not looking for diehard vet advise, I am simply looking for
> opinions, and even more so, reaching out to others who may have experienced
> something similar to whatever my concern or question is about. I suggest if
> you have no personal experience or helpful opinion, that you not reply to
> the OP at all. And it is possible to simply say that you feel they should
> see a vet, and not go ape**** on their ass for asking a question.
>
>
>
>

William Graham
November 14th 07, 09:26 PM
"Rhonda" > wrote in message
...
>I agree with everything you said, Tara.
>
> Staying on a newsgroup long term takes patience with each new question and
> each new personality. Most people asking what to do when their cats are
> truly in an emergency are not the regulars -- they are the ones that just
> pop in for advice. And they do -need- advice, even it it's "go to the
> vet."
>
> I can guarantee they won't be reading this discussion.
>
> Rhonda
>
> Tara Legale wrote:
>> I just don't see the harm is asking a question. I know when I have asked
>> questions I am not looking for diehard vet advise, I am simply looking
>> for opinions, and even more so, reaching out to others who may have
>> experienced something similar to whatever my concern or question is
>> about. I suggest if you have no personal experience or helpful opinion,
>> that you not reply to the OP at all. And it is possible to simply say
>> that you feel they should see a vet, and not go ape**** on their ass for
>> asking a question.
>>
With human being problems, I have known people who spend their lives in
doctors offices.....Every time they have a sniffle, they go to the doctor.
there are others who would rather die.....And sooner or later, they do.
The problem with animals is that they can't tell you much. You don't
know whether they are really hurting bad or not. So, it takes some common
sense to know whether you should take them to the vet or not. If my cat is
limping, I will usually wait a couple of days, and see if the limp improves
or gets worse or stays the same. but with an eye problem, I would take them
to the vet right away. For one thing, they can't wash out their eyes the
same as we can. so they are usually very uncomfortable, even if it would get
better eventually. And, just as with us, the eyes are very important to
their life style.
It all involves common sense. There are a lot of things that I can do
for myself that my cats can't do for themselves, so I am more likely to put
up with my own problems without seeing a doctor than I would be to let my
cats put up with theirs.

smoggy
November 15th 07, 05:32 PM
oh yes i am so you are wrong again!

Rhonda wrote:
> I agree with everything you said, Tara.
>
> Staying on a newsgroup long term takes patience with each new question
> and each new personality. Most people asking what to do when their cats
> are truly in an emergency are not the regulars -- they are the ones that
> just pop in for advice. And they do -need- advice, even it it's "go to
> the vet."
>
> I can guarantee they won't be reading this discussion.
>
> Rhonda
>
> Tara Legale wrote:
> > I just don't see the harm is asking a question. I know when I have asked
> > questions I am not looking for diehard vet advise, I am simply looking for
> > opinions, and even more so, reaching out to others who may have experienced
> > something similar to whatever my concern or question is about. I suggest if
> > you have no personal experience or helpful opinion, that you not reply to
> > the OP at all. And it is possible to simply say that you feel they should
> > see a vet, and not go ape**** on their ass for asking a question.
> >
> >
> >
> >

u[_2_]
November 20th 07, 11:21 PM
Sherry > wrote in
oups.com:

> On Nov 11, 6:58 pm, "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER>
> wrote:
>> I seldom crosspost, but I am doing so this time because I have seen
>> the same problem over-and-over-again on each of the "cats" newsgroups
>> I read. That is, someone will post a message to us asking, "What is
>> the problem?" - or possibly - "What can I do?"
>>
>> These are good forums for general information and advice, but we are
>> *not* veterinarians. Moreover, many of the questions relate to
>> problems that even a professional could not solve without an on-site
>> examination. Worse, some of the problems have either been neglected
>> for a long time or involve issues that clearly call for immediate
>> medical care.

Of course all of the above is just conjecture on your part. And
conjecture in the direction of the "take em to the vet" kneejerk
reaction. Which job do you hold in a vet office? Or how do you profit
from that advice. It's wrong. As I pointed out MOST of the medical
problems you take an animal to the vet for can be handled at home with
some reading and medication available from various sources without a
profit-mongering vet feeding from the trough. Just successfully treated
an upper respiratory infection, saving myself big bucks and, more
importantly, I deprived some unprofessional jackass who is primarily in
the business to make money his due. Tons of medical information for
animals on the net and tons of places to get medications needed for
treatment. Don't believe these "take em to the vet" people here that
work in vet offices often.


>>
>> Please, folks, use your brains (and your compassion)! Call a vet
>> ASAP when you detect a problem,


Gee the vets here don't have compassion, why should we? and more
importantly why should we give them our money when we can do most of it
ourselves?

<more BS snipped>


>> MaryL
>>
> Absolutely. Just as personal anecdotal evidence; *every time* I have
> delayed or put
> off a trip to the vet the problem only grew worse, and cost the cat
> more suffering

yeah, cuz you're maybe not intelligent enough or cannot make enough of a
committment or are too afraid to treat your pet?

u[_2_]
November 20th 07, 11:29 PM
John Doe > wrote in
et:

> "MaryL" <stancole1 yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>
>> "John Doe" <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:MzOZi.68190$YL5.20590 newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>>>
>>> When you think a veterinarian needs to be consulted, you can simply
>>> reply stating that opinion.
>
>> It should be common sense to consult a vet under the types of
>> conditions that I have seen posted -- again, numerous times.
>> People need to *think.*

These sheeple are not thinking they are assuming. Assuming that the vet
can automatically do a better job then they can. Assuming that vets will
place the welfare of the animal first, which the OBVIOUSLY do NOT.

>
> Why are there so many stray cats suffering and dying young in the
> not-so-great outdoors? Why do animals eat each other alive out
> there?

Because people are irresponsible and don't get their animals neutered.
Also there is alot of hypocrisy among so called animal help non-profits.
And alot of uncaring vets who do no pro bono work.

>
> Why spend $10,000 at a veterinarian clinic on two pet cats (and then
> post about it here) when instead dozens of stray cats could have
> been saved from being slaughtered?

Because in Amerika, money talks and bull**** walks. Money is the GOD
here, nothing else. If you are rich, 10K is nothing for a pet. And these
are the people that vets are in business for, not for the suffering
strays or those too poor to pay their exorbitant fees. The average vet
doesn't give a **** if a bunch of strays are suffering because he/she is
IN BUSINESS for the 10K owners, not to help suffering animals.


>
> It depends on the circumstance, and that's where the advice belongs,
> in my opinion.
>
> Have fun.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> MaryL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Path:

u[_2_]
November 20th 07, 11:35 PM
Meghan Noecker > wrote in
:

> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 20:38:58 -0600, "MaryL"
> -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>
>>
>>"John Doe" > wrote in message
. net...
>>>
>>> When you think a veterinarian needs to be consulted, you can simply
>>> reply stating that opinion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Of course. And I have done that, many times -- and so have many
>>others. The point is, that really shouldn't be necessary, at least not
>>in many cases. It should be common sense to consult a vet under the
>>types of conditions that I have seen posted -- again, numerous times.
>>This is not directed at one person in particular. People need to
>>*think.*
>>
>
>
> I think the majority of these posts are people that are just too cheap
> to go to the vet, and they hope we will solve their problem for free.
> Many of them claim to not have enough money to go, but they have money
> for other things.
>
<more drivel snipped>

Ok, member of the sheeple species. Go into debt to feed some unethical
shyster businessman who claims to be a doctor, I don't care, it's your
money.

u[_2_]
November 20th 07, 11:42 PM
Meghan Noecker > wrote in
:

> On 12 Nov 2007 06:52:19 GMT, wrote:
>

<snip>

>
> And even real vets cannot diagnose very well long distance. Most
> symptoms can point to various problems. A cat losing weight can have a
> multitide of causes, many of them serious illnesses. If the owner of
> the cat really doesn't have a good idea what the problem might be,
> then bloodwork is the best way to see what is going on.

I have caught two vets in serious errors in their treatment plans. One
of which was designed to extract and extra $300 out of me. Your right,
lots of quacks out there-another reason to treat your pet yourself if
you are halfway intelligent and can THINK FOR YOURSELF.

>
> I also tend to read posts on craigslist in the pet category, and there
> are posts every day asking for free vet advice and/or donations to
> cover vet expenses.

Yeah cuz vets, most of them, exist only for wealthy people. Apparently
the vet schools; licensing boards deleted their ethical requirements or
had none to begin with or are manned by representatives of
veterinarians.

>
> I had a lady approach me at the store where I wrok and ask my advice
> about her cat (she knew I was a cat lady). What she described sounded
> like a prolapsed uterus (stuff sticking out still a couple days after
> having kittens). I told her she really needs to take the cat to the
> vet. She insisted she couldn't afford to do so. She had fancy nails
> and colored hair, but she couldn't afford a trip to the vet.

Let me understand. Because the woman had her nails done and hair
colored, that makes her rich enough to pay $50 each time she walks
through a vet's door, in addition to all the other high fees they charge
for which the DEMAND immediate FULL payment?

u[_2_]
November 20th 07, 11:58 PM
Sherry > wrote in
ups.com:

> On Nov 12, 12:52 am, wrote:
>> Meghan Noecker > wrote:
<snip>
>>
>> > Unfortunately, a lot of people don't feel the same way. They won't
>> > go to the vet if they think it can be solved by a free online
>> > question. Or they won't go to the overnight vet because it costs
>> > too much. Or worse, they won't even call the vet because they
>> > think it takes too long to look up phone numbers. Gee, if they had
>> > a regular vet, they wouldn't need to look up the phone number, and
>> > the vet wold be happy to assist a regular customer.

I won't go to a vet because they overcharge and they are greedy and
unethical. And my results are better than if I had trusted them with the
care of my animals. Yeah, ur right regular customers are valued, because
the vets are mostly businessmen first and doctors second. And many are
incompetent and give bad treatment.



>>
>> > But hey, according to them, we are the true bad guys because all
>> > we do is suggest they go to the vet, the one thing they don't want
>> > to hear.
>>
>> Why make a big moral issue out of something that could simply be an
>> innocent, or perhaps ignorant, but not "cheap" or "neglectful"
>> question. I know that assuming someone means well isn't as much fun
>> as getting on a moral high horse, I sure as hell get sick of the halo
>> displays.

As you know many of these people work in vet offices and are indirectly
soliciting new business in these groups.


>>
>> Yeah, that person should take their cat to a vet. Maybe they didn't
>> realize this. Now, hopefully, they do. (If not, then that's the time
>> to yell at them...)
>
> I don't think Mary really so much directed her post to rpca, as this
> group really doesn't discuss health issues that much anyway. Regulars
> here (obviously) don't hesitate to seek a vet.
> I get what she's saying. Boy, do I get it, and it makes me really
> angry.
> I see people *constantly* drive up in $40,000 vehicles, with the

<snip>

Unfortunately not everyone who drives a nice care has money, Many are in
hock up to their rear ends in debt.

>
> Using a newsgroup to compare notes with others, or to arm yourself
> with questions for your vet, is a good idea. Using it as a substitute
> for vet care isn't. We all know that already.

Your wrong of course, Tons of up to date good information on the net for
diagnosis and treatment of many pet aliments. Would not rely on
newsgroup replies, but research as i stated before using copernic or
other proprietary search engine (better than google). Also meds
available from many sources. No need to introduce unprofessional
"doctors" into the equation in most cases.

u[_2_]
November 21st 07, 12:15 AM
Sherry > wrote in
ups.com:

> On Nov 12, 1:05 pm, "CatNipped" > wrote:
>> "Sherry" > wrote in message
>>
>> ups.com...
>>
>> > I don't think Mary really so much directed her post to rpca, as
>> > this group really doesn't discuss health issues that much anyway.
>> > Regulars here (obviously) don't hesitate to seek a vet.
>>
>> Oh, man, you can say that again! I've spent over $4,000 in vet bills
>> since June of this year!! I don't regret a penny of it (well maybe a
>> bit for the time I brought Archer in thinking he had gangrene when in
>> actuality is was dirty tape from the cast just removed).

you mistook tape debris for gangrene. NO WONDER you go to vets all the
time!


>
> I knew you'd spent a bundle. You took on a lot of health issues with
> your new babies,
> *besides* Archer's accident. It can really add up. What I just thought
> about reading
> your post -- I don't think I spent that much having bypass surgery!
> Veterinary
> medicine has come SO far. So much hightech equipment, complicated
> procedures
> that can now save a life that we didn't even have 20 years ago. We
> expect to
> pay big bucks for good care, but like with *our* medical stuff, we
> really need
> good pet care insurance now.

Maybe if veterinarians were not so greedy and did not focus on building
their own little profit fifedoms, more people could get the vet services
their pets need? Why spend huge amounts of money on one animal when
there are so many others suffering that cannot get treatment?


>
> Sherry
>

Granby
November 21st 07, 12:20 AM
Did I really just read this statement on this site?
Why spend huge amounts of money on one animal when there are so many others
suffering that cannot get treatment?


>

"u" > wrote in message ...
> Sherry > wrote in
> ups.com:
>
>> On Nov 12, 1:05 pm, "CatNipped" > wrote:
>>> "Sherry" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> ups.com...
>>>
>>> > I don't think Mary really so much directed her post to rpca, as
>>> > this group really doesn't discuss health issues that much anyway.
>>> > Regulars here (obviously) don't hesitate to seek a vet.
>>>
>>> Oh, man, you can say that again! I've spent over $4,000 in vet bills
>>> since June of this year!! I don't regret a penny of it (well maybe a
>>> bit for the time I brought Archer in thinking he had gangrene when in
>>> actuality is was dirty tape from the cast just removed).
>
> you mistook tape debris for gangrene. NO WONDER you go to vets all the
> time!
>
>
>>
>> I knew you'd spent a bundle. You took on a lot of health issues with
>> your new babies,
>> *besides* Archer's accident. It can really add up. What I just thought
>> about reading
>> your post -- I don't think I spent that much having bypass surgery!
>> Veterinary
>> medicine has come SO far. So much hightech equipment, complicated
>> procedures
>> that can now save a life that we didn't even have 20 years ago. We
>> expect to
>> pay big bucks for good care, but like with *our* medical stuff, we
>> really need
>> good pet care insurance now.
>
> Maybe if veterinarians were not so greedy and did not focus on building
> their own little profit fifedoms, more people could get the vet services
> their pets need? Why spend huge amounts of money on one animal when
> there are so many others suffering that cannot get treatment?
>
>
>>
>> Sherry
>>
>

u
November 21st 07, 12:23 AM
"Tara Legale" > wrote in
:


get yourself a free copy of copernic or firststop web search software.
far superior to google. you can find anything you want on diagnosis and
treatment of most animal maladies. many sources of medicine for animals
on the net as well. you don't have to rely on these profit monger
doctors and their inflated staffs. Nor on the often spotty and
unreliable information in these groups. instead go to the hard core
articles written by DVM specialists on diagnosis and treatment, -all
free on the net.

> I just don't see the harm is asking a question. I know when I have
> asked questions I am not looking for diehard vet advise, I am simply
> looking for opinions, and even more so, reaching out to others who may
> have experienced something similar to whatever my concern or question
> is about. I suggest if you have no personal experience or helpful
> opinion, that you not reply to the OP at all. And it is possible to
> simply say that you feel they should see a vet, and not go ape**** on
> their ass for asking a question.
>
>
>
>

u
November 21st 07, 12:29 AM
"Upscale" > wrote in
:

>
> "Tara Legale" > wrote in message
>> I just don't see the harm is asking a question. I know when I have
>> asked questions I am not looking for diehard vet advise, I am simply
>> looking for opinions, and even more so, reaching out to others who
>> may have
> experienced
>> something similar to whatever my concern or question is about.
>
> You're right up to a point, but it's likely you haven't seen some of
> the questions asked here and asked much more frequently than you might
> imagine. There have been people that ask "what should I do" when their
> pet has been coughing up blood, is urinating blood, has a big raw area
> on their stomach or is screaming in pain and similar stuff. In fact,
> there are times when it's so obvious the animal needs to be taken to a
> vet that the only way to get them to do so is to go ape**** on their
> ass and snap them out of their ignorance, if only for a few hours so
> they take the animal to a vet like they should have done a week ago.

Your right about the above. But my OP was assuming the person is
reasonably intelligent and educated as the above example, the person is
neither.

>
> Some people truly are too self absorbed to responsibly own a pet. Yet,
> they appear here on regular basis asking "what should I do" when it's
> completely obvious what they should have done a long time ago. To me,
> that's some form of ignorance, stupidity or a combination of both and
> requires only one type of reply to them. And if it makes them angry at
> me or someone else for saying it to them, then fine as long as they
> take the animal a vet as soon as humanly possible.

I sometimes post here to get further advice, but I rarely rely on the
answers in this group as the primary determiner of what course of
treatment I will take. I will not go to a vet except in a case of
emergency where I cannot treat the problem myself. Most vets in my city
that I have encountered are greedy, incompetent and uncaring or all
three.

Outsider
November 21st 07, 02:11 AM
"Matthew" > wrote in news:474367fd$0$15371
:

>
> "u" >
>
> < boring repetitious BS>
>
> Anyone else think he gets high of his own writings
>
>


Just your basic loser who envies everyone who does better than they do
(which seems to be just about everyone) and rationalizes his anger with a
bunch of nonsensical crap. They are even too ashamed to sign a name of any
kind to their "work". waaaaaahhhhhhhhh vets make money waaaaahhhhhh
their customers make money waaaaaaaahhhhhhh...... everyone is evil
wahhhhhhhhh.....


Andy

Sherry
November 21st 07, 02:41 AM
On Nov 20, 5:20 pm, "Granby" > wrote:
> Did I really just read this statement on this site?
> Why spend huge amounts of money on one animal when there are so many others
> suffering that cannot get treatment?

Yes, you read that right, but you attributed it wrong when you
replied. You made
it look like it was my post, and it was not!

Sherry

>
> "u" > wrote in ...
> > Sherry > wrote in
> ups.com:
>
> >> On Nov 12, 1:05 pm, "CatNipped" > wrote:
> >>> "Sherry" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> >>> > I don't think Mary really so much directed her post to rpca, as
> >>> > this group really doesn't discuss health issues that much anyway.
> >>> > Regulars here (obviously) don't hesitate to seek a vet.
>
> >>> Oh, man, you can say that again! I've spent over $4,000 in vet bills
> >>> since June of this year!! I don't regret a penny of it (well maybe a
> >>> bit for the time I brought Archer in thinking he had gangrene when in
> >>> actuality is was dirty tape from the cast just removed).
>
> > you mistook tape debris for gangrene. NO WONDER you go to vets all the
> > time!
>
> >> I knew you'd spent a bundle. You took on a lot of health issues with
> >> your new babies,
> >> *besides* Archer's accident. It can really add up. What I just thought
> >> about reading
> >> your post -- I don't think I spent that much having bypass surgery!
> >> Veterinary
> >> medicine has come SO far. So much hightech equipment, complicated
> >> procedures
> >> that can now save a life that we didn't even have 20 years ago. We
> >> expect to
> >> pay big bucks for good care, but like with *our* medical stuff, we
> >> really need
> >> good pet care insurance now.
>
> > Maybe if veterinarians were not so greedy and did not focus on building
> > their own little profit fifedoms, more people could get the vet services
> > their pets need? Why spend huge amounts of money on one animal when
> > there are so many others suffering that cannot get treatment?
>
> >> Sherry- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Granby
November 21st 07, 03:38 AM
Gosh, am sorry just saw it and copied and answered. I didn't mean to oh
well, sorry.
"Sherry" > wrote in message
...
> On Nov 20, 5:20 pm, "Granby" > wrote:
>> Did I really just read this statement on this site?
>> Why spend huge amounts of money on one animal when there are so many
>> others
>> suffering that cannot get treatment?
>
> Yes, you read that right, but you attributed it wrong when you
> replied. You made
> it look like it was my post, and it was not!
>
> Sherry
>
>>
>> "u" > wrote in ...
>> > Sherry > wrote in
>> ups.com:
>>
>> >> On Nov 12, 1:05 pm, "CatNipped" > wrote:
>> >>> "Sherry" > wrote in message
>>
>> ups.com...
>>
>> >>> > I don't think Mary really so much directed her post to rpca, as
>> >>> > this group really doesn't discuss health issues that much anyway.
>> >>> > Regulars here (obviously) don't hesitate to seek a vet.
>>
>> >>> Oh, man, you can say that again! I've spent over $4,000 in vet bills
>> >>> since June of this year!! I don't regret a penny of it (well maybe a
>> >>> bit for the time I brought Archer in thinking he had gangrene when in
>> >>> actuality is was dirty tape from the cast just removed).
>>
>> > you mistook tape debris for gangrene. NO WONDER you go to vets all the
>> > time!
>>
>> >> I knew you'd spent a bundle. You took on a lot of health issues with
>> >> your new babies,
>> >> *besides* Archer's accident. It can really add up. What I just thought
>> >> about reading
>> >> your post -- I don't think I spent that much having bypass surgery!
>> >> Veterinary
>> >> medicine has come SO far. So much hightech equipment, complicated
>> >> procedures
>> >> that can now save a life that we didn't even have 20 years ago. We
>> >> expect to
>> >> pay big bucks for good care, but like with *our* medical stuff, we
>> >> really need
>> >> good pet care insurance now.
>>
>> > Maybe if veterinarians were not so greedy and did not focus on building
>> > their own little profit fifedoms, more people could get the vet
>> > services
>> > their pets need? Why spend huge amounts of money on one animal when
>> > there are so many others suffering that cannot get treatment?
>>
>> >> Sherry- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>

November 21st 07, 04:41 AM
On Nov 20, 5:41 pm, Sherry > wrote:
> On Nov 20, 5:20 pm, "Granby" > wrote:
>
> > Did I really just read this statement on this site?
> > Why spend huge amounts of money on one animal when there are so many others
> > suffering that cannot get treatment?
>
> Yes, you read that right, but you attributed it wrong when you
> replied. You made
> it look like it was my post, and it was not!
>
> Sherry
>
>
>
> > "u" > wrote in ...
> > > Sherry > wrote in
> > ups.com:
>
> > >> On Nov 12, 1:05 pm, "CatNipped" > wrote:
> > >>> "Sherry" > wrote in message
>
> > ups.com...
>
> > >>> > I don't think Mary really so much directed her post to rpca, as
> > >>> > this group really doesn't discuss health issues that much anyway.
> > >>> > Regulars here (obviously) don't hesitate to seek a vet.
>
> > >>> Oh, man, you can say that again! I've spent over $4,000 in vet bills
> > >>> since June of this year!! I don't regret a penny of it (well maybe a
> > >>> bit for the time I brought Archer in thinking he had gangrene when in
> > >>> actuality is was dirty tape from the cast just removed).

Thats to bad. I could not afford to spend that much for my cats. I
would have to give them up.

cybercat
November 21st 07, 07:05 AM
> wrote in message
...
> On Nov 20, 5:41 pm, Sherry > wrote:
>> On Nov 20, 5:20 pm, "Granby" > wrote:
>>
>> > Did I really just read this statement on this site?
>> > Why spend huge amounts of money on one animal when there are so many
>> > others
>> > suffering that cannot get treatment?
>>
>> Yes, you read that right, but you attributed it wrong when you
>> replied. You made
>> it look like it was my post, and it was not!
>>
>> Sherry
>>
>>
>>
>> > "u" > wrote in ...
>> > > Sherry > wrote in
>> > ups.com:
>>
>> > >> On Nov 12, 1:05 pm, "CatNipped" >
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>> "Sherry" > wrote in message
>>
>> > ups.com...
>>
>> > >>> > I don't think Mary really so much directed her post to rpca, as
>> > >>> > this group really doesn't discuss health issues that much anyway.
>> > >>> > Regulars here (obviously) don't hesitate to seek a vet.
>>
>> > >>> Oh, man, you can say that again! I've spent over $4,000 in vet
>> > >>> bills
>> > >>> since June of this year!! I don't regret a penny of it (well maybe
>> > >>> a
>> > >>> bit for the time I brought Archer in thinking he had gangrene when
>> > >>> in
>> > >>> actuality is was dirty tape from the cast just removed).
>
> Thats to bad. I could not afford to spend that much for my cats. I
> would have to give them up.

Right. No kidding. Why are you here?

u[_2_]
November 26th 07, 11:04 PM
Outsider > wrote in
:

> "Matthew" > wrote in
> news:474367fd$0$15371 :
>
>>
>> "u" >
>>
>> < boring repetitious BS>
>>
>> Anyone else think he gets high of his own writings
>>
>>
>
>
> Just your basic loser who envies everyone who does better than they do

<more incomprehensible ramblings and name calling deleted>

I bet both of you work in vet offices, because you talk as if your
borderline retarded.

>
>
>
> Andy
>

Outsider
November 27th 07, 12:40 AM
"Matthew" > wrote in
:

>
> "u" >
>>
>> <more incomprehensible ramblings and name calling deleted>
>>
>> I bet both of you work in vet offices, because you talk as if your
>> borderline retarded.
>
>
> A mentally challenged idiot calling us borderline retarded! LOL -
> priceless -
>
>
> Nope worked animal rescue before.
>
> But any Doctor or sane person will tell you get back on your meds.




Or at least tighten his aluminum skull-cap.

waxinwaxout
November 27th 07, 01:16 PM
On Nov 12, 6:30 am, mncats > wrote:

> if you see your cat hasen't eaten in a few days - take it to a vet
>
> get the picture?

Not really. My cat hadn't eaten in a few (3) days so I took him to the
vet. He died after the vet had (horribly) treated him.

The vet discovered something on the back of his tongue that he wasn't
able to sample (the cat resisted taking a sample) so the vet proposed
anesthetics. Appointment was made for the next day.

The next day the cat was already showing signs of improvement. I asked
the vet if we should still proceed with the treatment considering the
improvement but the vet insisted on anesthetics for which he was
treated the same day.

After the treatment my cat was breathing heavily through his (open)
mouth, had virtually no more muscle power (couldn't stand on his
feet), was constantly looking for cool areas (even lying down on a wet
shower floor) and seemed to be sweating, at least his fur was
extremely greasy-like. The vet stated that the heavy breathing should
disappear within 6 hours.

However, these malignant symptoms continued for 48 hours during which
I constantly relayed these (additional) symptoms to the vet who
reasoned that nothing was wrong. Eventually the cat was put to sleep
at the vet (next bill).

The vet didn't warn of dangers involved with anesthetics prior to the
treatment. During the treatment the cat showed signs of oxygen
depletion (turned blue) when receiving the intial injection prior to
the general anesthetics. Any sane vet would have broken off the
treatment, but this 'vet' continued. Apparently, after an anesthetics
treatment the vet is supposed to hand out an instruction flyer on how
to treat your pet after an anesthetics treatment which he withheld. I
noticed this flyer days afterwards while waiting to speak with vet.

When the same complications continued after the treatment (for which
the vet ventilated oxygen to counter the complications during the
treatment), the vet reasoned that nothing bad was going on.

The sample taken from his tongue turned out to be a benign auto immune
reaction (according to the pathologist). The vet had previously rushed
me into the anesthetics treatment stating the cat might have to be
operated on within 2 days. The report from the pathologist however
apparently takes 3 weeks to process??

I have no problems paying tenfold what the vet charged me, but the
moral of the story is that vets (at least in this country) are self
employed, have their own bills to pay and animals (at least in this
country) are legally equivalent to a material article. This
regretfully may alter the reasoning mechanism of a vet to proceed
according to financial rewards aot what's best for the patient (which
over here is not qualifed as a patient, rather a broken product).

I hope I'm an exception to the general advise, but in retrospect I
should never have taken the cat to the vet. The vet has not given any
cause of death; afterwards I found out the vet performed an autopsy
without my consent and still couldn't find the cause of death. The
cause of death is very clear to me.

Even so, take your pet to the vet, but bear in mind that the vet has
direct income from treatments aot a doctor receiving a fixed salary.

Miyagi

fred
November 28th 07, 07:49 PM
IBen Getiner > wrote in
:

> On Nov 11, 7:58�pm, "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER>
> wrote:



>> These are good forums for general information and advice, but we are
>> *not*
>
>> veterinarians. �Moreover, many of the questions relate to problems
> that even

If we were, we'd probably not answer post until payment had been made in
full.

<snip>

>>
>> Please, folks, use your brains (and your compassion)! �Call a vet
> ASAP when
>> you detect a problem, in the same way that you would want medical
>> care for
>
>> yourself.


Many in this group are hypocrites. They profess to be compassionate
animal lovers, but really are here to drum up cash for Vet. Offices.


�You are not only causing additional pain/discomfort for
> your cat
>> when you delay and wait for unknown people on a newsgroup to respond,
>> but the irony is that you often cause additional expense for
>> yourself. ï¿

Funny the Vets I've met lately don't seem to care if the animal is
suffering, they are primarily concerned about getting their pint of
blood.


> ½Many
>> problems that can be easily and inexpensively remedied can quickly
>> become much more serious and more expensive when treatment is
>> delayed.

No Vet. Treated myself. Problem solved. Cat much better. What's the
problem?


>>
>> MaryL
>>
>
>
> Yes... and all the more reason for people NOT to frequent here. Look
> at the frigging FOOLS that they'll be talking to! All of you disabled
> LOZERS in here, all on the dole. Worthless and useless with nothing
> constructive to do. Your lives are all wasted yet you all seem to
> think you can help someone else with their own. LOL...!!

Not interested in helping a**holes like you. Only your animals who are
probably smarter and I know more moral. Please learn to spell. To bad
for "her" I can imagine how SHE is suffering if IBen is Getiner.


>
>
>
> IBen Getiner
>

u[_3_]
November 28th 07, 08:04 PM
Thanks for relating your experience with a vet that killed your pet.

There are alot of incompetent unprofessional vets in practice. There
appears to be little or no regulation of them here in Arizona and their
State Board Licensing site specifically states they will do NOTHING on
unethical business practices. IOW, the vet can do whatever he/she wants
on the business side without any fear of repercussions.

I too have experienced vets here in Tucson where I knew more about the
problem then they did and their treatment was unacceptable. In once case
the profit monger tried to talk me into unneccesary declawing of the
animal to the tune of an additional $400. In another case, the idiot did
not know proper diagnostic procedures for an ear infection.

This is what you get in a right wing state that cares more about
business, profit, and the rich that elect them, then it does about the
quality of life for it's Citizens. Pathetic really. Arizona ranks at the
bottom of the barrel in most quality of life studies. We have sunshine,
that's about it. Same is true in vet practices here and across all the
professions.

waxinwaxout > wrote in
:

> On Nov 12, 6:30 am, mncats > wrote:
>
>> if you see your cat hasen't eaten in a few days - take it to a vet
>>
>> get the picture?
>
> Not really. My cat hadn't eaten in a few (3) days so I took him to the
> vet. He died after the vet had (horribly) treated him.
>
> The vet discovered something on the back of his tongue that he wasn't
> able to sample (the cat resisted taking a sample) so the vet proposed
> anesthetics. Appointment was made for the next day.
>
> The next day the cat was already showing signs of improvement. I asked
> the vet if we should still proceed with the treatment considering the
> improvement but the vet insisted on anesthetics for which he was
> treated the same day.
>
> After the treatment my cat was breathing heavily through his (open)
> mouth, had virtually no more muscle power (couldn't stand on his
> feet), was constantly looking for cool areas (even lying down on a wet
> shower floor) and seemed to be sweating, at least his fur was
> extremely greasy-like. The vet stated that the heavy breathing should
> disappear within 6 hours.
>
> However, these malignant symptoms continued for 48 hours during which
> I constantly relayed these (additional) symptoms to the vet who
> reasoned that nothing was wrong. Eventually the cat was put to sleep
> at the vet (next bill).
>
> The vet didn't warn of dangers involved with anesthetics prior to the
> treatment. During the treatment the cat showed signs of oxygen
> depletion (turned blue) when receiving the intial injection prior to
> the general anesthetics. Any sane vet would have broken off the
> treatment, but this 'vet' continued. Apparently, after an anesthetics
> treatment the vet is supposed to hand out an instruction flyer on how
> to treat your pet after an anesthetics treatment which he withheld. I
> noticed this flyer days afterwards while waiting to speak with vet.
>
> When the same complications continued after the treatment (for which
> the vet ventilated oxygen to counter the complications during the
> treatment), the vet reasoned that nothing bad was going on.
>
> The sample taken from his tongue turned out to be a benign auto immune
> reaction (according to the pathologist). The vet had previously rushed
> me into the anesthetics treatment stating the cat might have to be
> operated on within 2 days. The report from the pathologist however
> apparently takes 3 weeks to process??
>
> I have no problems paying tenfold what the vet charged me, but the
> moral of the story is that vets (at least in this country) are self
> employed, have their own bills to pay and animals (at least in this
> country) are legally equivalent to a material article. This
> regretfully may alter the reasoning mechanism of a vet to proceed
> according to financial rewards aot what's best for the patient (which
> over here is not qualifed as a patient, rather a broken product).
>
> I hope I'm an exception to the general advise, but in retrospect I
> should never have taken the cat to the vet. The vet has not given any
> cause of death; afterwards I found out the vet performed an autopsy
> without my consent and still couldn't find the cause of death. The
> cause of death is very clear to me.
>
> Even so, take your pet to the vet, but bear in mind that the vet has
> direct income from treatments aot a doctor receiving a fixed salary.
>
> Miyagi
>
>
>
>

Baldoni[_3_]
November 29th 07, 03:20 PM
Meghan Noecker presented the following explanation :
> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 20:38:58 -0600, "MaryL"
> -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>
>>
>> "John Doe" > wrote in message
>> . net...
>>>
>>> When you think a veterinarian needs to be consulted, you can simply
>>> reply stating that opinion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Of course. And I have done that, many times -- and so have many others.
>> The point is, that really shouldn't be necessary, at least not in many
>> cases. It should be common sense to consult a vet under the types of
>> conditions that I have seen posted -- again, numerous times. This is not
>> directed at one person in particular. People need to *think.*
>>
>
>
> I think the majority of these posts are people that are just too cheap
> to go to the vet, and they hope we will solve their problem for free.
> Many of them claim to not have enough money to go, but they have money
> for other things.
>
> I know what it is like to be tight with money. I have paid other bills
> late (and thus incurred late fees) to make sure my cats got the care
> they required. I have also gotten a short term loan, sold items, and
> borrowed money. I don't regret it. My cats and dogs are worth it to
> me.
>
> Unfortunately, a lot of people don't feel the same way. They won't go
> to the vet if they think it can be solved by a free online question.
> Or they won't go to the overnight vet because it costs too much. Or
> worse, they won't even call the vet because they think it takes too
> long to look up phone numbers. Gee, if they had a regular vet, they
> wouldn't need to look up the phone number, and the vet wold be happy
> to assist a regular customer.
>
> But hey, according to them, we are the true bad guys because all we do
> is suggest they go to the vet, the one thing they don't want to hear.

I will never set foot in the local Budget Vet again. I had my cat
boogd in and stormed out after giving them a mouthful.

--
Count Baldoni

u
November 29th 07, 10:31 PM
Baldoni > wrote in
:

What praytell is "boogd"??

>
> I will never set foot in the local Budget Vet again. I had my cat
> boogd in and stormed out after giving them a mouthful.
>

u
November 29th 07, 10:34 PM
IBen Getiner > wrote in
:

> On Nov 27, 10:54�am, "Matthew" >
> wrote:
>> "IBen Getiner" >
>>
>> < snipped for being bull****>
>>
>> Get back on your meds would you
>
> I'm sorry, but wasn't addressing you, Matty.
>

This idiot is diagnosing others mental problems and he cannot even reply
to the right poster. Maybe Ritalin or Adderal for you?

>
> IBen Getiner

Baldoni[_3_]
December 3rd 07, 01:13 PM
MaryL used his keyboard to write :
> "Meghan Noecker" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 20:38:58 -0600, "MaryL"
>> -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"John Doe" > wrote in message
. net...
>>>>
>>>> When you think a veterinarian needs to be consulted, you can simply
>>>> reply stating that opinion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Of course. And I have done that, many times -- and so have many others.
>>>The point is, that really shouldn't be necessary, at least not in many
>>>cases. It should be common sense to consult a vet under the types of
>>>conditions that I have seen posted -- again, numerous times. This is not
>>>directed at one person in particular. People need to *think.*
>>>
>>
>>
>> I think the majority of these posts are people that are just too cheap
>> to go to the vet, and they hope we will solve their problem for free.
>> Many of them claim to not have enough money to go, but they have money
>> for other things.
>>
>> I know what it is like to be tight with money. I have paid other bills
>> late (and thus incurred late fees) to make sure my cats got the care
>> they required. I have also gotten a short term loan, sold items, and
>> borrowed money. I don't regret it. My cats and dogs are worth it to
>> me.
>>
>> Unfortunately, a lot of people don't feel the same way. They won't go
>> to the vet if they think it can be solved by a free online question.
>> Or they won't go to the overnight vet because it costs too much. Or
>> worse, they won't even call the vet because they think it takes too
>> long to look up phone numbers. Gee, if they had a regular vet, they
>> wouldn't need to look up the phone number, and the vet wold be happy
>> to assist a regular customer.
>>
>> But hey, according to them, we are the true bad guys because all we do
>> is suggest they go to the vet, the one thing they don't want to hear.
>>
>
> Unfortunately, I think you are correct. There are some occasions when I
> think it is a newbie who really doesn't know what to do, but that is a
> rarity. Like you, I went through periods when I borrowed money to take care
> of my cats (actually, one cat at a time). I got my first cat when I was in
> graduate school, and my cat needed emergency surgery. I slowly paid the bill
> off, and it was paid in full after about three years -- but I made
> arrangements for it, and it was done. And it was well worth it! He was less
> than a year old at that time, but he lived to be just a little less than 20
> years old. He was wonderful!
>
> MaryL

Against my doctors advice I would climb back into the ring to raise the
cash if my cats needed it. Even if it meant they would have to carry
me out of the ring. I am too old for it now.

--
Count Baldoni

William Graham
December 3rd 07, 05:11 PM
"Baldoni @gmail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nientespam> wrote in message
...
> MaryL used his keyboard to write :
>> "Meghan Noecker" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 20:38:58 -0600, "MaryL"
>>> -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"John Doe" > wrote in message
. net...
>>>>>
>>>>> When you think a veterinarian needs to be consulted, you can simply
>>>>> reply stating that opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Of course. And I have done that, many times -- and so have many others.
>>>>The point is, that really shouldn't be necessary, at least not in many
>>>>cases. It should be common sense to consult a vet under the types of
>>>>conditions that I have seen posted -- again, numerous times. This is
>>>>not
>>>>directed at one person in particular. People need to *think.*
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think the majority of these posts are people that are just too cheap
>>> to go to the vet, and they hope we will solve their problem for free.
>>> Many of them claim to not have enough money to go, but they have money
>>> for other things.
>>>
>>> I know what it is like to be tight with money. I have paid other bills
>>> late (and thus incurred late fees) to make sure my cats got the care
>>> they required. I have also gotten a short term loan, sold items, and
>>> borrowed money. I don't regret it. My cats and dogs are worth it to
>>> me.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, a lot of people don't feel the same way. They won't go
>>> to the vet if they think it can be solved by a free online question.
>>> Or they won't go to the overnight vet because it costs too much. Or
>>> worse, they won't even call the vet because they think it takes too
>>> long to look up phone numbers. Gee, if they had a regular vet, they
>>> wouldn't need to look up the phone number, and the vet wold be happy
>>> to assist a regular customer.
>>>
>>> But hey, according to them, we are the true bad guys because all we do
>>> is suggest they go to the vet, the one thing they don't want to hear.
>>>
>>
>> Unfortunately, I think you are correct. There are some occasions when I
>> think it is a newbie who really doesn't know what to do, but that is a
>> rarity. Like you, I went through periods when I borrowed money to take
>> care of my cats (actually, one cat at a time). I got my first cat when I
>> was in graduate school, and my cat needed emergency surgery. I slowly
>> paid the bill off, and it was paid in full after about three years -- but
>> I made arrangements for it, and it was done. And it was well worth it!
>> He was less than a year old at that time, but he lived to be just a
>> little less than 20 years old. He was wonderful!
>>
>> MaryL
>
> Against my doctors advice I would climb back into the ring to raise the
> cash if my cats needed it. Even if it meant they would have to carry me
> out of the ring. I am too old for it now.
>
> --
> Count Baldoni
>
>
With me it isn't the money. Taking a pet to the vet is just a PIA.....They
don't understand that you are trying to help, and the vet wants them at some
inconvenient time and then thinks that you can give them a pill easily, or
do some other regular procedure easily......People doctors are the same
way.....I will put off going to the doctor myself until the last possible
minute, hoping that whatever it is will go away, or cure itself........

Professor[_2_]
December 3rd 07, 06:14 PM
"William Graham" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Baldoni @gmail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nientespam> wrote in message
> ...
>> MaryL used his keyboard to write :
>>> "Meghan Noecker" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 20:38:58 -0600, "MaryL"
>>>> -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"John Doe" > wrote in message
. net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you think a veterinarian needs to be consulted, you can simply
>>>>>> reply stating that opinion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>Of course. And I have done that, many times -- and so have many
>>>>>others.
>>>>>The point is, that really shouldn't be necessary, at least not in many
>>>>>cases. It should be common sense to consult a vet under the types of
>>>>>conditions that I have seen posted -- again, numerous times. This is
>>>>>not
>>>>>directed at one person in particular. People need to *think.*
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think the majority of these posts are people that are just too cheap
>>>> to go to the vet, and they hope we will solve their problem for free.
>>>> Many of them claim to not have enough money to go, but they have money
>>>> for other things.
>>>>
>>>> I know what it is like to be tight with money. I have paid other bills
>>>> late (and thus incurred late fees) to make sure my cats got the care
>>>> they required. I have also gotten a short term loan, sold items, and
>>>> borrowed money. I don't regret it. My cats and dogs are worth it to
>>>> me.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, a lot of people don't feel the same way. They won't go
>>>> to the vet if they think it can be solved by a free online question.
>>>> Or they won't go to the overnight vet because it costs too much. Or
>>>> worse, they won't even call the vet because they think it takes too
>>>> long to look up phone numbers. Gee, if they had a regular vet, they
>>>> wouldn't need to look up the phone number, and the vet wold be happy
>>>> to assist a regular customer.
>>>>
>>>> But hey, according to them, we are the true bad guys because all we do
>>>> is suggest they go to the vet, the one thing they don't want to hear.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, I think you are correct. There are some occasions when I
>>> think it is a newbie who really doesn't know what to do, but that is a
>>> rarity. Like you, I went through periods when I borrowed money to take
>>> care of my cats (actually, one cat at a time). I got my first cat when
>>> I was in graduate school, and my cat needed emergency surgery. I slowly
>>> paid the bill off, and it was paid in full after about three years --
>>> but I made arrangements for it, and it was done. And it was well worth
>>> it! He was less than a year old at that time, but he lived to be just a
>>> little less than 20 years old. He was wonderful!
>>>
>>> MaryL
>>
>> Against my doctors advice I would climb back into the ring to raise the
>> cash if my cats needed it. Even if it meant they would have to carry me
>> out of the ring. I am too old for it now.
>>
>> --
>> Count Baldoni
>>
>>
> With me it isn't the money. Taking a pet to the vet is just a PIA.....They
> don't understand that you are trying to help, and the vet wants them at
> some inconvenient time and then thinks that you can give them a pill
> easily, or do some other regular procedure easily......People doctors are
> the same way.....I will put off going to the doctor myself until the last
> possible minute, hoping that whatever it is will go away, or cure
> itself........
>
Which is why idiots like you don't discover their cancer is too advanced by
the time they go to the doctor. You are a poster child for why it is
important to see doctors and veterinarians early and often.

William Graham
December 4th 07, 01:28 AM
"Professor" > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> "William Graham" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> "Baldoni @gmail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nientespam> wrote in message
>> ...
>>> MaryL used his keyboard to write :
>>>> "Meghan Noecker" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 20:38:58 -0600, "MaryL"
>>>>> -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"John Doe" > wrote in message
. net...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When you think a veterinarian needs to be consulted, you can simply
>>>>>>> reply stating that opinion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Of course. And I have done that, many times -- and so have many
>>>>>>others.
>>>>>>The point is, that really shouldn't be necessary, at least not in many
>>>>>>cases. It should be common sense to consult a vet under the types of
>>>>>>conditions that I have seen posted -- again, numerous times. This is
>>>>>>not
>>>>>>directed at one person in particular. People need to *think.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the majority of these posts are people that are just too cheap
>>>>> to go to the vet, and they hope we will solve their problem for free.
>>>>> Many of them claim to not have enough money to go, but they have money
>>>>> for other things.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know what it is like to be tight with money. I have paid other bills
>>>>> late (and thus incurred late fees) to make sure my cats got the care
>>>>> they required. I have also gotten a short term loan, sold items, and
>>>>> borrowed money. I don't regret it. My cats and dogs are worth it to
>>>>> me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, a lot of people don't feel the same way. They won't go
>>>>> to the vet if they think it can be solved by a free online question.
>>>>> Or they won't go to the overnight vet because it costs too much. Or
>>>>> worse, they won't even call the vet because they think it takes too
>>>>> long to look up phone numbers. Gee, if they had a regular vet, they
>>>>> wouldn't need to look up the phone number, and the vet wold be happy
>>>>> to assist a regular customer.
>>>>>
>>>>> But hey, according to them, we are the true bad guys because all we do
>>>>> is suggest they go to the vet, the one thing they don't want to hear.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, I think you are correct. There are some occasions when
>>>> I think it is a newbie who really doesn't know what to do, but that is
>>>> a rarity. Like you, I went through periods when I borrowed money to
>>>> take care of my cats (actually, one cat at a time). I got my first cat
>>>> when I was in graduate school, and my cat needed emergency surgery. I
>>>> slowly paid the bill off, and it was paid in full after about three
>>>> years -- but I made arrangements for it, and it was done. And it was
>>>> well worth it! He was less than a year old at that time, but he lived
>>>> to be just a little less than 20 years old. He was wonderful!
>>>>
>>>> MaryL
>>>
>>> Against my doctors advice I would climb back into the ring to raise the
>>> cash if my cats needed it. Even if it meant they would have to carry me
>>> out of the ring. I am too old for it now.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Count Baldoni
>>>
>>>
>> With me it isn't the money. Taking a pet to the vet is just a
>> PIA.....They don't understand that you are trying to help, and the vet
>> wants them at some inconvenient time and then thinks that you can give
>> them a pill easily, or do some other regular procedure easily......People
>> doctors are the same way.....I will put off going to the doctor myself
>> until the last possible minute, hoping that whatever it is will go away,
>> or cure itself........
>>
> Which is why idiots like you don't discover their cancer is too advanced
> by the time they go to the doctor. You are a poster child for why it is
> important to see doctors and veterinarians early and often.
>
You mean like my brother in law? - He had some symptoms of prostate cancer.
He went to the doctor, and the doctor said, "Oh don't worry about it Ed, all
men your age have those kinds of troubles." - So, He waited, and the
symptoms became worse, so he went back. This happened several times. Then
one day, while sitting in his doctor's office, he read an article in "RN", a
nurses magazine. It listed the 7 symptoms of prostate cancer. When it came
time for him to go in and see the doctor, he brought the magazine with him.
He said to the doctor, "Do you see these 7 symptoms of prostate cancer it
lists here doc?" And the doctor said, yes? And Ed said, "well, I'VE GOT
EVERY F***** ONE OF THEM!!!" He died three years later.......

This is typical of the state of the medical profession today.....They are,
for the most part, still a bunch of snake oil salesmen selling their crap
from the back of a wagon somewhere........The only ones who really know
anything are the surgeons, who actually do something for people and
animals.....

---MIKE---
December 4th 07, 02:11 AM
William Graham wrote:

>>The only ones who really know anything
>> are the surgeons, who actually do
>> something for people and animals.....

I don't really believe this. About a year ago I had a surgeon tell me
that I had a torn rotator cuff and needed surgery. I opted to follow a
set of therapy exercises instead. Now I have about 90% usage of my arm
There was no guarantee that the surgery would give me any better than
that.


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')

q[_2_]
December 4th 07, 09:14 PM
"William Graham" > wrote in
:

>
> "Professor" > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> "William Graham" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> "Baldoni @gmail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nientespam> wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> MaryL used his keyboard to write :
>>>>> "Meghan Noecker" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 20:38:58 -0600, "MaryL"
>>>>>> -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"John Doe" > wrote in message
. net...
>>>>>>>>
<snip>

>>>>
>>>> Against my doctors advice I would climb back into the ring to raise
>>>> the cash if my cats needed it. Even if it meant they would have to
>>>> carry me out of the ring. I am too old for it now.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Count Baldoni
>>>>
>>>>
>>> With me it isn't the money. Taking a pet to the vet is just a
>>> PIA.....They don't understand that you are trying to help, and the
>>> vet wants them at some inconvenient time and then thinks that you
>>> can give them a pill easily, or do some other regular procedure
>>> easily......People doctors are the same way.....I will put off going
>>> to the doctor myself until the last possible minute, hoping that
>>> whatever it is will go away, or cure itself........
>>>
>> Which is why idiots like you don't discover their cancer is too
>> advanced by the time they go to the doctor. You are a poster child
>> for why it is important to see doctors and veterinarians early and
>> often.

Lots of times the doctors make you WORSE, not better. It's a far cry
from what is supposedly the standard in the Hipocracy Oath.

>>
> You mean like my brother in law? - He had some symptoms of prostate
> cancer. He went to the doctor, and the doctor said, "Oh don't worry
> about it Ed, all men your age have those kinds of troubles." - So, He
> waited, and the symptoms became worse, so he went back. This happened
> several times. Then one day, while sitting in his doctor's office, he
> read an article in "RN", a nurses magazine. It listed the 7 symptoms
> of prostate cancer. When it came time for him to go in and see the
> doctor, he brought the magazine with him. He said to the doctor, "Do
> you see these 7 symptoms of prostate cancer it lists here doc?" And
> the doctor said, yes? And Ed said, "well, I'VE GOT EVERY F***** ONE OF
> THEM!!!" He died three years later.......
>
> This is typical of the state of the medical profession today.....They
> are, for the most part, still a bunch of snake oil salesmen selling
> their crap from the back of a wagon somewhere........The only ones who
> really know anything are the surgeons, who actually do something for
> people and animals.....
>

(BTW, I worked with surgeons and they too regularily ****up)

There is ALOT of truth to this. The more I see doctors the more I
realize how terrible medical services are in the USA. The focus of
course, as with everything else in this ****ry (sic) seems to be on
MONEY. Have good insurance? You will probably be OVERtreated. Have
little or no insurance?-their attitude is, well, 'you're going to die
anyways, so why bother'. Lots of incompetence also. There is a good
reason why there are so medical malpractice lawsuits-namely, because
there are alot of ****ups. Ditto for the drug companies. Last antibiotic
I took nearly turned my liver into jello and the doctor never even
warned me about side effects from the AB. I was watching Chavez' vote in
Venezuela. Too bad the people did not understand that here is a guy who
sincerely wants justice for the poor working man. Not like all the
greedy, power hungry corrupt politicians here. The capitalism in this
Kuntry is an evil, corrupted form of capitalism of profit above all
else.

Vets are worse, at least the ones in Tucson. Greedy, greedy, greedy.
No ethical qualms about refusing treatment of a suffering animal due to
owners inability to pay in full, IMMEDIATELY. Bunch of pigs, least the
ones I've dealt with.