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Dakota
December 10th 07, 05:29 AM
My poor old kitty is at least 13--maybe older, because we adopted him
from a shelter 11 years ago and the shelter and vet both said he was
at least 2 and maybe older). He had lost a little weight during the
summer, but he looked healthy. Then about a month ago, he started
going downhill fast. He started looking rangy and stopped eating
completely. I took him to the vet after a couple of days and they did
tests and said he had a URI that day and put him on an anti-biotic.
He had a slight fever.

The tests showed he had both corona and heartworms--very odd since he
is innoculated or taking meds against everything known to man. When
he kept going downhill, they did an X-ray and although his heart
didn't show any signs of heartworm, it looked unhealthy, and he still
had a fever.

We gave him his full course of antibiotics, and then I went away for
Thanksgiving week and my S.O. watched him over the holiday. When I
returned, he had lost so much weight he looked like a skeleton.
Another trip to the vet and they said the prognosis is poor--it
appears he has the nasty FIPS corona form. Since he is sick, they
told me that, if he survives, to switch him to Heartguard because the
Revolution can't be given to compromised cats.

I decided I was not giving up without a fight. I bought some
Pedialyte and some kitten formula and started feeding him with a
medicine dropper and kitten bottle (I switched and started using the
dropper for both), increasing it until he was getting 3 good-sized
meals a day. He was so sick he really couldn't fight me. He was
still fastidious about using the litterbox, eventhough he could barely
walk and developed the odd gait described for FIPS. But he seemed
affectionate and purred and was loving otherwise, so I decided that,
unless he seemed to be in pain, I'd keep trying.

We kept offering him cat food and treats of all kinds, and
occasionally he'd eat some, but not enough to sustain life. He
finally started eating more of them, and as of yesterday, he started
eating more regular food, too--but not the Science Diet we've given
him for many years (he won't eat people food or canned). We feed him
piece by piece, and he seems to be slightly better today, but still a
very sick kitty. He started fighting my feeding him the Pedialyte and
kitten formula a couple days ago, so I've cut down and will cut it out
completely tomorrow because he's decided he's really had enough.

He's finally had nomal-sized BMs the past 2 days, but he had slight
diarrhea with it so bad I've had to wash him both days. He's still
very thin and not moving around much. I mashed the Heartguard and
sneaked it into the kitten formula to try to stop the heartworm cycle.

He's still so touch-and-go. He's my gangster of love, and it's
frustrating and very sad that I still can't tell if he'll live or
die. I'm cautiously optimistic, but nothing I read gives me much
hope. People describe some improvement before serious illness
develops again...

Any insights would be appreciated.

Noon Cat Nick
December 10th 07, 01:47 PM
Dakota wrote:

> My poor old kitty is at least 13--maybe older, because we adopted him
> from a shelter 11 years ago and the shelter and vet both said he was
> at least 2 and maybe older). He had lost a little weight during the
> summer, but he looked healthy. Then about a month ago, he started
> going downhill fast. He started looking rangy and stopped eating
> completely. I took him to the vet after a couple of days and they did
> tests and said he had a URI that day and put him on an anti-biotic.
> He had a slight fever.
>
> The tests showed he had both corona and heartworms--very odd since he
> is innoculated or taking meds against everything known to man. When
> he kept going downhill, they did an X-ray and although his heart
> didn't show any signs of heartworm, it looked unhealthy, and he still
> had a fever.
>
> We gave him his full course of antibiotics, and then I went away for
> Thanksgiving week and my S.O. watched him over the holiday. When I
> returned, he had lost so much weight he looked like a skeleton.
> Another trip to the vet and they said the prognosis is poor--it
> appears he has the nasty FIPS corona form. Since he is sick, they
> told me that, if he survives, to switch him to Heartguard because the
> Revolution can't be given to compromised cats.
>
> I decided I was not giving up without a fight. I bought some
> Pedialyte and some kitten formula and started feeding him with a
> medicine dropper and kitten bottle (I switched and started using the
> dropper for both), increasing it until he was getting 3 good-sized
> meals a day. He was so sick he really couldn't fight me. He was
> still fastidious about using the litterbox, eventhough he could barely
> walk and developed the odd gait described for FIPS. But he seemed
> affectionate and purred and was loving otherwise, so I decided that,
> unless he seemed to be in pain, I'd keep trying.
>
> We kept offering him cat food and treats of all kinds, and
> occasionally he'd eat some, but not enough to sustain life. He
> finally started eating more of them, and as of yesterday, he started
> eating more regular food, too--but not the Science Diet we've given
> him for many years (he won't eat people food or canned). We feed him
> piece by piece, and he seems to be slightly better today, but still a
> very sick kitty. He started fighting my feeding him the Pedialyte and
> kitten formula a couple days ago, so I've cut down and will cut it out
> completely tomorrow because he's decided he's really had enough.
>
> He's finally had nomal-sized BMs the past 2 days, but he had slight
> diarrhea with it so bad I've had to wash him both days. He's still
> very thin and not moving around much. I mashed the Heartguard and
> sneaked it into the kitten formula to try to stop the heartworm cycle.
>
> He's still so touch-and-go. He's my gangster of love, and it's
> frustrating and very sad that I still can't tell if he'll live or
> die. I'm cautiously optimistic, but nothing I read gives me much
> hope. People describe some improvement before serious illness
> develops again...
>
> Any insights would be appreciated.
>

You're right to question whether you're doing the poor guy much of a
favor anymore. If he starts to decline again, or his healthier times
become diminished in duration, it's probably time to do the hard task of
letting him go. In particular, take into regard his quality of life. If
he gets too weak to eat anything, or make it to the litter box, or even
groom himself, it's better IMO to give him that peaceful, painless
passage than to have his misery increase and his dignity wane. Just my
entirely unprofessional opinion.

honeybunch
December 10th 07, 02:36 PM
On Dec 10, 8:47 am, Noon Cat Nick >
wrote:
> Dakota wrote:
> > My poor old kitty is at least 13--maybe older, because we adopted him
> > from a shelter 11 years ago and the shelter and vet both said he was
> > at least 2 and maybe older). He had lost a little weight during the
> > summer, but he looked healthy. Then about a month ago, he started
> > going downhill fast. He started looking rangy and stopped eating
> > completely. I took him to the vet after a couple of days and they did
> > tests and said he had a URI that day and put him on an anti-biotic.
> > He had a slight fever.
>
> > The tests showed he had both corona and heartworms--very odd since he
> > is innoculated or taking meds against everything known to man. When
> > he kept going downhill, they did an X-ray and although his heart
> > didn't show any signs of heartworm, it looked unhealthy, and he still
> > had a fever.
>
> > We gave him his full course of antibiotics, and then I went away for
> > Thanksgiving week and my S.O. watched him over the holiday. When I
> > returned, he had lost so much weight he looked like a skeleton.
> > Another trip to the vet and they said the prognosis is poor--it
> > appears he has the nasty FIPS corona form. Since he is sick, they
> > told me that, if he survives, to switch him to Heartguard because the
> > Revolution can't be given to compromised cats.
>
> > I decided I was not giving up without a fight. I bought some
> > Pedialyte and some kitten formula and started feeding him with a
> > medicine dropper and kitten bottle (I switched and started using the
> > dropper for both), increasing it until he was getting 3 good-sized
> > meals a day. He was so sick he really couldn't fight me. He was
> > still fastidious about using the litterbox, eventhough he could barely
> > walk and developed the odd gait described for FIPS. But he seemed
> > affectionate and purred and was loving otherwise, so I decided that,
> > unless he seemed to be in pain, I'd keep trying.
>
> > We kept offering him cat food and treats of all kinds, and
> > occasionally he'd eat some, but not enough to sustain life. He
> > finally started eating more of them, and as of yesterday, he started
> > eating more regular food, too--but not the Science Diet we've given
> > him for many years (he won't eat people food or canned). We feed him
> > piece by piece, and he seems to be slightly better today, but still a
> > very sick kitty. He started fighting my feeding him the Pedialyte and
> > kitten formula a couple days ago, so I've cut down and will cut it out
> > completely tomorrow because he's decided he's really had enough.
>
> > He's finally had nomal-sized BMs the past 2 days, but he had slight
> > diarrhea with it so bad I've had to wash him both days. He's still
> > very thin and not moving around much. I mashed the Heartguard and
> > sneaked it into the kitten formula to try to stop the heartworm cycle.
>
> > He's still so touch-and-go. He's my gangster of love, and it's
> > frustrating and very sad that I still can't tell if he'll live or
> > die. I'm cautiously optimistic, but nothing I read gives me much
> > hope. People describe some improvement before serious illness
> > develops again...
>
> > Any insights would be appreciated.
>
> You're right to question whether you're doing the poor guy much of a
> favor anymore. If he starts to decline again, or his healthier times
> become diminished in duration, it's probably time to do the hard task of
> letting him go. In particular, take into regard his quality of life. If
> he gets too weak to eat anything, or make it to the litter box, or even
> groom himself, it's better IMO to give him that peaceful, painless
> passage than to have his misery increase and his dignity wane. Just my
> entirely unprofessional opinion.


He doesnt sound miserable to me. You said he purrs. If you have the
time and love to be with him until the end, I salute you and all the
gallant efforts you are doing to keep the old champ alive.

Sheelagh>\o\
December 10th 07, 04:57 PM
On 10 Dec, 05:29, Dakota > wrote:
> My poor old kitty is at least 13--maybe older, because we adopted him
> from a shelter 11 years ago and the shelter and vet both said he was
> at least 2 and maybe older). He had lost a little weight during the
> summer, but he looked healthy. Then about a month ago, he started
> going downhill fast. He started looking rangy and stopped eating
> completely. I took him to the vet after a couple of days and they did
> tests and said he had a URI that day and put him on an anti-biotic.
> He had a slight fever.
>
> The tests showed he had both corona and heartworms--very odd since he
> is innoculated or taking meds against everything known to man. When
> he kept going downhill, they did an X-ray and although his heart
> didn't show any signs of heartworm, it looked unhealthy, and he still
> had a fever.
>
> We gave him his full course of antibiotics, and then I went away for
> Thanksgiving week and my S.O. watched him over the holiday. When I
> returned, he had lost so much weight he looked like a skeleton.
> Another trip to the vet and they said the prognosis is poor--it
> appears he has the nasty FIPS corona form. Since he is sick, they
> told me that, if he survives, to switch him to Heartguard because the
> Revolution can't be given to compromised cats.
>
> I decided I was not giving up without a fight. I bought some
> Pedialyte and some kitten formula and started feeding him with a
> medicine dropper and kitten bottle (I switched and started using the
> dropper for both), increasing it until he was getting 3 good-sized
> meals a day. He was so sick he really couldn't fight me. He was
> still fastidious about using the litterbox, eventhough he could barely
> walk and developed the odd gait described for FIPS. But he seemed
> affectionate and purred and was loving otherwise, so I decided that,
> unless he seemed to be in pain, I'd keep trying.
>
> We kept offering him cat food and treats of all kinds, and
> occasionally he'd eat some, but not enough to sustain life. He
> finally started eating more of them, and as of yesterday, he started
> eating more regular food, too--but not the Science Diet we've given
> him for many years (he won't eat people food or canned). We feed him
> piece by piece, and he seems to be slightly better today, but still a
> very sick kitty. He started fighting my feeding him the Pedialyte and
> kitten formula a couple days ago, so I've cut down and will cut it out
> completely tomorrow because he's decided he's really had enough.
>
> He's finally had nomal-sized BMs the past 2 days, but he had slight
> diarrhea with it so bad I've had to wash him both days. He's still
> very thin and not moving around much. I mashed the Heartguard and
> sneaked it into the kitten formula to try to stop the heartworm cycle.
>
> He's still so touch-and-go. He's my gangster of love, and it's
> frustrating and very sad that I still can't tell if he'll live or
> die. I'm cautiously optimistic, but nothing I read gives me much
> hope. People describe some improvement before serious illness
> develops again...
>
> Any insights would be appreciated.
---------
Any insights would be appreciated
My poor old kitty is at least 13--maybe older, because we adopted him
from a shelter 11 years ago and the shelter and vet both said he was
at least 2 and maybe older). He had lost a little weight during the
summer, but he looked healthy. Then about a month ago, he started
going downhill fast. He started looking rangy and stopped eating
completely. I took him to the vet after a couple of days and they
did
tests and said he had a URI that day and put him on an anti-biotic.
He had a slight fever.
-----------------------------------
It is quite common for cats to carry corona virus @ some stage in
their life, but if not treated, it can cause the secondary infection
of FIP. Corona virus is activated in carriers by stress & illness. If
you have any other cats, I would recommend that you have some bloods
done on them, so that you know exactly where you stand to start with.
The antibiotics gets rid of present infections, but there is no known
cure for FIP.
------------------------------------------------------
The tests showed he had both corona and heart worms--very odd since
he
is inoculated or taking meds against everything known to man. When
he kept going downhill, they did an X-ray and although his heart
didn't show any signs of heartworm, it looked unhealthy, and he still
had a fever.
-----------------
It sounds like your vet is not is explaining the consequences of his
illness to you. If I were you, I would be asking why he wasn't covered
for heartworm, if he was treated by them?
----------------
We gave him his full course of antibiotics, and then I went away for
Thanksgiving week and my S.O. watched him over the holiday. When I
returned, he had lost so much weight he looked like a skeleton.
Another trip to the vet and they said the prognosis is poor--it
appears he has the nasty FIPS corona form. Since he is sick, they
told me that, if he survives, to switch him to Heartguard because the
Revolution can't be given to compromised cats.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
It is a shame, but these things do happen. I can understand you
leaving him in an-other's care because you thought he was ok. However,
You must remain aware that corona virus is a very nasty disease, &
although it doesn't mean that corona virus will definately grow into
full blown FIP, in his case you know that he has got full blown FIP.
It is so contagious that any cat that comes into contact with him,
stands a good chance of picking it up from him. Here is a link to some
more information relating to corona virus & FIP too, so that you can
read all about it when you have the time so it & read it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus


http://www.moggies.co.uk/articles/fip.html

The only reason I can advise you about the corona virus & FIP, is
because I had a case of it here recently from a rescue kitten, so I
know exactly how you are feeling. It's a terrible thing to deal with.

Living in the UK, we don't have the same heartworm problems as the
USA, but I've started treating my cat's against it, simply because I'm
not willing to take the risk. What I can tell you, is that most cases
of heartworm can also be life threatening- But, some member's here
have managed to coax their cat's into several extra years.

http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/5150/heartworm.htm

I'm sure that others can advise about Heartworm, far better than I am
able to?
--------------------------------------------------

I decided I was not giving up without a fight. I bought some
Pedialyte and some kitten formula and started feeding him with a
medicine dropper and kitten bottle (I switched and started using the
dropper for both), increasing it until he was getting 3 good-sized
meals a day. He was so sick he really couldn't fight me. He was
still fastidious about using the litterbox, eventhough he could
barely
walk and developed the odd gait described for FIPS. But he seemed
affectionate and purred and was loving otherwise, so I decided that,
unless he seemed to be in pain, I'd keep trying.

----------------------------
All purring indicates, is that the cat is happy for you to interact
with you. I had a couple of breeding queens a year ago, & both females
would purr all the way through labour!! Believe me, a cat hides pain
because in their world, it is showing a sign of weakness to admit they
are in pain- so they don't show it!!
-------------------------------
We kept offering him cat food and treats of all kinds, and
occasionally he'd eat some, but not enough to sustain life. He
finally started eating more of them, and as of yesterday, he started
eating more regular food, too--but not the Science Diet we've given
him for many years (he won't eat people food or canned). We feed him
piece by piece, and he seems to be slightly better today, but still a
very sick kitty. He started fighting my feeding him the Pedialyte
and
kitten formula a couple days ago, so I've cut down and will cut it
out
completely tomorrow because he's decided he's really had enough.
-----------------------------------------------------

One of the hardest things a cat slave has to do, is decide when enough
is enough, for your beloved cat. You have to think of the quality of
life that your cat has, & have a really good chat with your vet, so
that he understands how you feel, & all of the things that you are not
familiar with (Corona virus & FIP). It will probably be the hardest
call of your life. I'm sorry, but there is no cure for FIP, & you
wouldn't want him to suffer overly. This is why I recommend this chat
with your vet.
I am hoping that you will know when your dearest companion needs
mercy, & be brave enough to allow him to go to the other side of the
Rainbow Bridge, where he will always carry a piece of your heart, &
Vice versa.
-------------------------------------------------------

He's finally had nomal-sized BMs the past 2 days, but he had slight
diarrhea with it so bad I've had to wash him both days. He's still
very thin and not moving around much. I mashed the Heartguard and
sneaked it into the kitten formula to try to stop the heartworm
cycle.


He's still so touch-and-go. He's my gangster of love, and it's
frustrating and very sad that I still can't tell if he'll live or
die. I'm cautiously optimistic, but nothing I read gives me much
hope. People describe some improvement before serious illness
develops again...
-------------------------------------------
This is true.

He will get over it for a couple of weeks, then suddenly he will take
a nose dive again. We all understand how hard that will be for you,
but we are here for support & to talk to you when that time comes.
Until then, love him like there is no tomorrow, because you will
treasure these times for life.

I feel terrible that I can't give you a better prognosis for your cat.
I would dearly love to! Please do keep in touch with us & let us know
how your gangster is faring if you wouldn't mind?
Good Luck,

Sheelagh >"o"<

Wendy
December 11th 07, 01:21 PM
"Sheelagh>"o"<" > wrote in message
...
> On 10 Dec, 05:29, Dakota > wrote:
>> My poor old kitty is at least 13--maybe older, because we adopted him
>> from a shelter 11 years ago and the shelter and vet both said he was
>> at least 2 and maybe older). He had lost a little weight during the
>> summer, but he looked healthy. Then about a month ago, he started
>> going downhill fast. He started looking rangy and stopped eating
>> completely. I took him to the vet after a couple of days and they did
>> tests and said he had a URI that day and put him on an anti-biotic.
>> He had a slight fever.
>>
>> The tests showed he had both corona and heartworms--very odd since he
>> is innoculated or taking meds against everything known to man. When
>> he kept going downhill, they did an X-ray and although his heart
>> didn't show any signs of heartworm, it looked unhealthy, and he still
>> had a fever.
>>
<snip>
> It is quite common for cats to carry corona virus @ some stage in
> their life, but if not treated, it can cause the secondary infection
> of FIP. Corona virus is activated in carriers by stress & illness. If
> you have any other cats, I would recommend that you have some bloods
> done on them, so that you know exactly where you stand to start with.
> The antibiotics gets rid of present infections, but there is no known
> cure for FIP.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by Corona not being treated. There
is no treatment for the Corona virus. About 85% of all cats will be exposed
to the Corona virus at some point in their life. Most cats will eventually
clear the virus from their system with no ill effect. There are some cats
that become chronic shedders. If one of them lives in a community of cats
that cat could continue to reinfect the other cats. A small percentage (3 -
5%) of infected cats will have the virus mutate into the FIP form of the
virus. The FIP form of corona is not contagious. Each cat that succums to
FIP has 'manufactured' it's own fatal form of the corona virus. There is no
test that can isolate the FIP form. All the corona tests tell you is that
the cat has SOME form of the corona virus but not that it's a fatal form.
There is no cure for FIP. You can't tell that the cat has FIP by simply
running one test. The diagnosis must be made by a combination of symptoms
and test results that are consistent with the disease.

FIP takes two basic forms, wet or dry. The wet form generally will cause
death more quickly and is recognized by fluid accumulation in the chest or
abdominal cavity. This fluid or effluent can be tested for the presence of
the virus and a relatively certain diagnosis can be obtained. The dry form
is a little trickier to recognize as it has a shopping list of possible
symptoms and the cats can linger with this form.

Antibiotics will be ineffective against FIP as it's a virus and anti-biotics
only address bacterial infections.


> ------------------------------------------------------

> It is so contagious that any cat that comes into contact with him,
> stands a good chance of picking it up from him.

It's kind of like shutting the barn door after the horse has been stolen.
Once the cat has begun showing symptoms it's likely that all cats in the
household who share litter boxes or areas around the litter box have already
been exposed to the virus as corona is spread through the fecal/oral route
(cat ingests something that is contaminated with fecal matter or ingests the
virus when grooming after using a common box). I seem to remember reading
that once the cat has gone active FIP that it no longer is shedding virus in
the feces but can't site the source so take it for what it's worth. It's a
lead pipe cinch that corona is in the household so I certainly wouldn't
introduce a new cat to the environment. I seem to remember that the virus
can live in the environment for up to 6-7 weeks and isn't killed by the use
of normal household cleaners. A 32:1 water/bleach solution will kill just
about anything but of course can't be used on all surfaces.

Scooping regularly and changing out the litter frequently can help to
minimize the viral load.

I didn't notice the OP refer to additional cat though. If this is an only
cat then none of this makes any difference at this point.



I have to agree that purring indicates nothing other than the cat is
purring. I sometimes suspect that they purr when in pain to comfort
themselves but that's just a theory and the cats aren't telling.

I hope things go gently with this poor kitty.

Wendy

Sheelagh>\o\
December 11th 07, 02:21 PM
On Dec 11, 1:21 pm, "Wendy" > wrote:
> "Sheelagh>"o"<" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 10 Dec, 05:29, Dakota > wrote:
> >> My poor old kitty is at least 13--maybe older, because we adopted him
> >> from a shelter 11 years ago and the shelter and vet both said he was
> >> at least 2 and maybe older). He had lost a little weight during the
> >> summer, but he looked healthy. Then about a month ago, he started
> >> going downhill fast. He started looking rangy and stopped eating
> >> completely. I took him to the vet after a couple of days and they did
> >> tests and said he had a URI that day and put him on an anti-biotic.
> >> He had a slight fever.
>
> >> The tests showed he had both corona and heartworms--very odd since he
> >> is innoculated or taking meds against everything known to man. When
> >> he kept going downhill, they did an X-ray and although his heart
> >> didn't show any signs of heartworm, it looked unhealthy, and he still
> >> had a fever.
>
> <snip>
> > It is quite common for cats to carry corona virus @ some stage in
> > their life, but if not treated, it can cause the secondary infection
> > of FIP. Corona virus is activated in carriers by stress & illness. If
> > you have any other cats, I would recommend that you have some bloods
> > done on them, so that you know exactly where you stand to start with.
> > The antibiotics gets rid of present infections, but there is no known
> > cure for FIP.
>
> I'm not sure I understand what you mean by Corona not being treated. There
> is no treatment for the Corona virus. About 85% of all cats will be exposed
> to the Corona virus at some point in their life. Most cats will eventually
> clear the virus from their system with no ill effect. There are some cats
> that become chronic shedders. If one of them lives in a community of cats
> that cat could continue to reinfect the other cats. A small percentage (3 -
> 5%) of infected cats will have the virus mutate into the FIP form of the
> virus. The FIP form of corona is not contagious. Each cat that succums to
> FIP has 'manufactured' it's own fatal form of the corona virus. There is no
> test that can isolate the FIP form. All the corona tests tell you is that
> the cat has SOME form of the corona virus but not that it's a fatal form.
> There is no cure for FIP. You can't tell that the cat has FIP by simply
> running one test. The diagnosis must be made by a combination of symptoms
> and test results that are consistent with the disease.
>
> FIP takes two basic forms, wet or dry. The wet form generally will cause
> death more quickly and is recognized by fluid accumulation in the chest or
> abdominal cavity. This fluid or effluent can be tested for the presence of
> the virus and a relatively certain diagnosis can be obtained. The dry form
> is a little trickier to recognize as it has a shopping list of possible
> symptoms and the cats can linger with this form.
>
> Antibiotics will be ineffective against FIP as it's a virus and anti-biotics
> only address bacterial infections.
>
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > It is so contagious that any cat that comes into contact with him,
> > stands a good chance of picking it up from him.
>
> It's kind of like shutting the barn door after the horse has been stolen.
> Once the cat has begun showing symptoms it's likely that all cats in the
> household who share litter boxes or areas around the litter box have already
> been exposed to the virus as corona is spread through the fecal/oral route
> (cat ingests something that is contaminated with fecal matter or ingests the
> virus when grooming after using a common box). I seem to remember reading
> that once the cat has gone active FIP that it no longer is shedding virus in
> the feces but can't site the source so take it for what it's worth. It's a
> lead pipe cinch that corona is in the household so I certainly wouldn't
> introduce a new cat to the environment. I seem to remember that the virus
> can live in the environment for up to 6-7 weeks and isn't killed by the use
> of normal household cleaners. A 32:1 water/bleach solution will kill just
> about anything but of course can't be used on all surfaces.
>
> Scooping regularly and changing out the litter frequently can help to
> minimize the viral load.
>
> I didn't notice the OP refer to additional cat though. If this is an only
> cat then none of this makes any difference at this point.
>
> I have to agree that purring indicates nothing other than the cat is
> purring. I sometimes suspect that they purr when in pain to comfort
> themselves but that's just a theory and the cats aren't telling.
>
> I hope things go gently with this poor kitty.
>
> Wendy- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

> > It is quite common for cats to carry corona virus @ some stage in
> > their life, but if not treated, it can cause the secondary infection
> > of FIP. Corona virus is activated in carriers by stress & illness. If
> > you have any other cats, I would recommend that you have some bloods
> > done on them, so that you know exactly where you stand to start with.
> > The antibiotics gets rid of present infections, but there is no known
> > cure for FIP.

I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear on this one. I meant to indicate
that the antibiotics would have knocked any bacterial infection ( the
OP mentioned that he had recently suffered a URI) on the head.

It was also my understanding that in times of stress or illness, most
cats with corona virus succumb to infection easily, which is why
antibiotics are required to get rid of any infection caused as a
result of fresh breakout? Is this the case Wendy?

I defer to your greater wisdom on this one, because I can only speak
from the experience of that 1 kitten, & I know that you have dealt
with more cases of corona virus than I've had hot dinners! I came to
you for advise on that one, & I do remember you saying that there was
a wet & dry version now that you mention it. Misdiagnosis is very
prevalent too, because it takes a number of factors to diagnose Corona
virus, doesn't it? It is interesting to note that once a cat has FIP
that it stops shedding. I wasn't aware of that!

>Isn't killed by the use
> of normal household cleaners. A 32:1 water/bleach solution will kill just
> about anything but of course can't be used on all surfaces.

Just out of interest, I was given some of this to scrub all of the
runs, & also the rest of the places that the kitten came into contact
with. It is called Parvo Virucide. I have been reading up a little
about it, & I note that it's main function is to get rid of kennel
cough & several other nasty organisms & virus prevention. Have I been
sold a fancy idea, or is it the correct stuff to treat to treat the
pens with? Many thanks Wendy.....

http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/prodinfo.asp?number=PARVOVIRU

I Learn something new everyday on Usenet. Thanks Wendy :o) Can you
indicate the difference between wet & dry forms, if you know them
please?
Thank you for enlightening me too.

I am very sorry if I didn't make myself clear to the OP & Thank you
for putting me right Wendy ...
Sheelagh >"o"<

Wendy
December 11th 07, 07:03 PM
<big snip>
>
> I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear on this one. I meant to indicate
> that the antibiotics would have knocked any bacterial infection ( the
> OP mentioned that he had recently suffered a URI) on the head.

I just wanted to clarify that the antibiotics wouldn't help the FIP
infection at all. It's not uncommon for baterial infections to start when
the cat's immune system is busy fighting off a viral infection though.
>
> It was also my understanding that in times of stress or illness, most
> cats with corona virus succumb to infection easily, which is why
> antibiotics are required to get rid of any infection caused as a
> result of fresh breakout? Is this the case Wendy?

Are you saying that for instance a cat that is corona positive is more
likely to get an URI than the cat next door who is corona negative? If so
I've never heard that.

If you're saying that if the cat is suffering with FIP that makes it more
succeptable to opportunistic bacterial infections then I'd have to say
probably. The cats immune system is already fighting itself because of the
FIP.

"FIP develops when a usually harmless strain of FCoV mutates in the cat in a
way that gives the virus the ability to replicate itself in some of the
cat's white cells. When the immune system mounts a defense against the
invaded white cells, which are themselves infection-fighting cells, the
immune system ends up damaging its own protective cells and tissues," says
Dr. Richards. The result is an intense inflammatory reaction in the tissues
where the virus-infected cells reside, which causes damage to multiple
systems at once and ultimately leads to death.

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/news/FIP.htm


>
> I defer to your greater wisdom on this one, because I can only speak
> from the experience of that 1 kitten, & I know that you have dealt
> with more cases of corona virus than I've had hot dinners! I came to
> you for advise on that one, & I do remember you saying that there was
> a wet & dry version now that you mention it. Misdiagnosis is very
> prevalent too, because it takes a number of factors to diagnose Corona
> virus, doesn't it? It is interesting to note that once a cat has FIP
> that it stops shedding. I wasn't aware of that!
>
> >Isn't killed by the use
>> of normal household cleaners. A 32:1 water/bleach solution will kill just
>> about anything but of course can't be used on all surfaces.
>
> Just out of interest, I was given some of this to scrub all of the
> runs, & also the rest of the places that the kitten came into contact
> with. It is called Parvo Virucide. I have been reading up a little
> about it, & I note that it's main function is to get rid of kennel
> cough & several other nasty organisms & virus prevention. Have I been
> sold a fancy idea, or is it the correct stuff to treat to treat the
> pens with? Many thanks Wendy.....
>
> http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/prodinfo.asp?number=PARVOVIRU
>
> I Learn something new everyday on Usenet. Thanks Wendy :o) Can you
> indicate the difference between wet & dry forms, if you know them
> please?
> Thank you for enlightening me too.
>
> I am very sorry if I didn't make myself clear to the OP & Thank you
> for putting me right Wendy ...
> Sheelagh >"o"<

That cleaner sounds pretty heavy duty if it's effective against Panleuk. I'm
not the expert on clean up though. Phil might be better to advise about
that. I can bleach anything that my fosters come in contact with and that's
what I usually do when faced with one of these nasty organisms. Overkill
sometimes but makes me feel better about putting the next kitty in that
spot.

There is a FIP Yahoo group that is quite informative if someone wants more
information or clarification about FIP. There are vets who participate and
others that are involved with and up to date on the research that is going
on in this area. Although there is much discussion among those who's cats
are ill and support of those who have lost pets to this disease, there is
also much good discussion and information about getting an accurate
diagnosis and who has the accurate information and who's blowing smoke,
which labs can give you accurate test results and which tests promise more
than they can deliver.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIP/

Wendy

Sheelagh>\o\
December 12th 07, 05:29 PM
On Dec 11, 7:03 pm, "Wendy" > wrote:
> <big snip>
>
>
>
> > I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear on this one. I meant to indicate
> > that the antibiotics would have knocked any bacterial infection ( the
> > OP mentioned that he had recently suffered a URI) on the head.
>
> I just wanted to clarify that the antibiotics wouldn't help the FIP
> infection at all. It's not uncommon for baterial infections to start when
> the cat's immune system is busy fighting off a viral infection though.
>
>
>
> > It was also my understanding that in times of stress or illness, most
> > cats with corona virus succumb to infection easily, which is why
> > antibiotics are required to get rid of any infection caused as a
> > result of fresh breakout? Is this the case Wendy?
>
> Are you saying that for instance a cat that is corona positive is more
> likely to get an URI than the cat next door who is corona negative? If so
> I've never heard that.
>
> If you're saying that if the cat is suffering with FIP that makes it more
> succeptable to opportunistic bacterial infections then I'd have to say
> probably. The cats immune system is already fighting itself because of the
> FIP.
>
> "FIP develops when a usually harmless strain of FCoV mutates in the cat in a
> way that gives the virus the ability to replicate itself in some of the
> cat's white cells. When the immune system mounts a defense against the
> invaded white cells, which are themselves infection-fighting cells, the
> immune system ends up damaging its own protective cells and tissues," says
> Dr. Richards. The result is an intense inflammatory reaction in the tissues
> where the virus-infected cells reside, which causes damage to multiple
> systems at once and ultimately leads to death.
>
> http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/news/FIP.htm
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I defer to your greater wisdom on this one, because I can only speak
> > from the experience of that 1 kitten, & I know that you have dealt
> > with more cases of corona virus than I've had hot dinners! I came to
> > you for advise on that one, & I do remember you saying that there was
> > a wet & dry version now that you mention it. Misdiagnosis is very
> > prevalent too, because it takes a number of factors to diagnose Corona
> > virus, doesn't it? It is interesting to note that once a cat has FIP
> > that it stops shedding. I wasn't aware of that!
>
> > >Isn't killed by the use
> >> of normal household cleaners. A 32:1 water/bleach solution will kill just
> >> about anything but of course can't be used on all surfaces.
>
> > Just out of interest, I was given some of this to scrub all of the
> > runs, & also the rest of the places that the kitten came into contact
> > with. It is called Parvo Virucide. I have been reading up a little
> > about it, & I note that it's main function is to get rid of kennel
> > cough & several other nasty organisms & virus prevention. Have I been
> > sold a fancy idea, or is it the correct stuff to treat to treat the
> > pens with? Many thanks Wendy.....
>
> >http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/prodinfo.asp?number=PARVOVIRU
>
> > I Learn something new everyday on Usenet. Thanks Wendy :o) Can you
> > indicate the difference between wet & dry forms, if you know them
> > please?
> > Thank you for enlightening me too.
>
> > I am very sorry if I didn't make myself clear to the OP & Thank you
> > for putting me right Wendy ...
> > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> That cleaner sounds pretty heavy duty if it's effective against Panleuk. I'm
> not the expert on clean up though. Phil might be better to advise about
> that. I can bleach anything that my fosters come in contact with and that's
> what I usually do when faced with one of these nasty organisms. Overkill
> sometimes but makes me feel better about putting the next kitty in that
> spot.
>
> There is a FIP Yahoo group that is quite informative if someone wants more
> information or clarification about FIP. There are vets who participate and
> others that are involved with and up to date on the research that is going
> on in this area. Although there is much discussion among those who's cats
> are ill and support of those who have lost pets to this disease, there is
> also much good discussion and information about getting an accurate
> diagnosis and who has the accurate information and who's blowing smoke,
> which labs can give you accurate test results and which tests promise more
> than they can deliver.http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIP/
>
> Wendy- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

> Are you saying that for instance a cat that is corona positive is more
> likely to get an URI than the cat next door who is corona negative? If so
> I've never heard that.
>

No, I didn't mean to imply that, although I did think that stress was
a trigger that does make them slightly more susceptible to infection
than they would have normally ?

> If you're saying that if the cat is suffering with FIP that makes it more
> susceptible to opportunistic bacterial infections then I'd have to say
> probably. The cats immune system is already fighting itself because of the
> FIP.

This is exactly what I meant to imply. It was my understanding that a
cat who is compromised with FIP is far more susceptible to infection,
especially in times of stress & ill health in general. (ie: a cat
with FIP who is feeling ill from the side effects of FIP, would be far
more likely to be susceptible a virus & get a bacterial infections,
than say a male cat in good health.)

> That cleaner sounds pretty heavy duty if it's effective against Panleuk. I'm
> not the expert on clean up though. Phil might be better to advise about
> that. I can bleach anything that my fosters come in contact with and that's
> what I usually do when faced with one of these nasty organisms. Overkill
> sometimes but makes me feel better about putting the next kitty in that
> spot.

I agree!
I will be sure to ask him when I see him around. The reason I asked
the question about it is because I have a friend with a cat with FIP,
& the more I can find out, the better I can advise her. I had never
even heard of the problem before we had that little kitty who was so
poorly that the vet felt he couldn't help him. From what I can glean,
it is a very commonly misdiagnosed problem that can't be eliminated by
one test alone; rather lots of tests that do give an accurate
diagnosis. I know this bottle of stuff cost her in the region of $100,
so that was why I was asking if she was buying a great idea with no
effect. It seems that it is pretty strong stuff after all?!!

The links you have provided are invaluable. Thank you for that
contribution Wendy. It helps a lot & I have forwarded the links to her
to read too. Her cat has just been diagnosed after a couple of months
of tests. @ 15 years old, he has had a good life with her from 5 weeks
old, but now she has reached the point where he is becoming terribly
hard to feed, so she faces a very similar prognosis. I looked after
him during the day whilst she has been @ work for the last week, then
she takes over in the evening. I believe they have spoken with their
vet to arrange him coming to their house early next week, so that they
can say good bye to him @ home where he feels safe & comforted. I
really feel for her. It's a horrible disease!

I have one final question if you have the time to respond Wendy. Is
there anything that you can do, other than to keeping litter boxes
scrupulously clean, & new arrivals quarantined, to lessen the chances
of contracting Corona Virus?
TIA :o)
Sheelagh>"o"<

Dakota
December 13th 07, 05:48 AM
On Dec 10, 8:47 am, Noon Cat Nick >
wrote:
> Dakota wrote:
<snip>

Thanks to everyone who responded. He's been eating only regular food
and water for 3 days now and his litter habits are back to normal.
He's still skinny (I've nicknamed him "Mr. Bones!"), but he's moving,
eating, and drinking better and I noticed a touch of cattitude today
for the first time since he became ill. He still has the gait
disorder that may be associated with dry (I think I have them correct)
FIPS. He never had the stomach or chest symptoms associated with wet.

I do realize there is a good chance he won't make it. I'm pretty
accepting now of whatever happens. I feel that sense of "completion"
people talk about, and know I can release him and let him go.

He's an only cat, so infection of or by other cats isn't an issue and
he'd had all his shots and meds each month and year. If he starts
going down hill again, my vet told me to just call when it's time for
him to go. The vet suspects he may be much older than the shelter
estimated. We've had 11 great years together and he's been one of my
dearest and most therapeutic friends.

Dakota
December 13th 07, 06:06 AM
On Dec 12, 12:29 pm, "Sheelagh>\"o\"<" >
wrote:
> On Dec 11, 7:03 pm, "Wendy" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > <big snip>
>
> > > I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear on this one. I meant to indicate
> > > that the antibiotics would have knocked any bacterial infection ( the
> > > OP mentioned that he had recently suffered a URI) on the head.
>
> > I just wanted to clarify that the antibiotics wouldn't help the FIP
> > infection at all. It's not uncommon for baterial infections to start when
> > the cat's immune system is busy fighting off a viral infection though.
>
> > > It was also my understanding that in times of stress or illness, most
> > > cats with corona virus succumb to infection easily, which is why
> > > antibiotics are required to get rid of any infection caused as a
> > > result of fresh breakout? Is this the case Wendy?
>
> > Are you saying that for instance a cat that is corona positive is more
> > likely to get an URI than the cat next door who is corona negative? If so
> > I've never heard that.
>
> > If you're saying that if the cat is suffering with FIP that makes it more
> > succeptable to opportunistic bacterial infections then I'd have to say
> > probably. The cats immune system is already fighting itself because of the
> > FIP.
>
> > "FIP develops when a usually harmless strain of FCoV mutates in the cat in a
> > way that gives the virus the ability to replicate itself in some of the
> > cat's white cells. When the immune system mounts a defense against the
> > invaded white cells, which are themselves infection-fighting cells, the
> > immune system ends up damaging its own protective cells and tissues," says
> > Dr. Richards. The result is an intense inflammatory reaction in the tissues
> > where the virus-infected cells reside, which causes damage to multiple
> > systems at once and ultimately leads to death.
>
> >http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/news/FIP.htm
>
> > > I defer to your greater wisdom on this one, because I can only speak
> > > from the experience of that 1 kitten, & I know that you have dealt
> > > with more cases of corona virus than I've had hot dinners! I came to
> > > you for advise on that one, & I do remember you saying that there was
> > > a wet & dry version now that you mention it. Misdiagnosis is very
> > > prevalent too, because it takes a number of factors to diagnose Corona
> > > virus, doesn't it? It is interesting to note that once a cat has FIP
> > > that it stops shedding. I wasn't aware of that!
>
> > > >Isn't killed by the use
> > >> of normal household cleaners. A 32:1 water/bleach solution will kill just
> > >> about anything but of course can't be used on all surfaces.
>
> > > Just out of interest, I was given some of this to scrub all of the
> > > runs, & also the rest of the places that the kitten came into contact
> > > with. It is called Parvo Virucide. I have been reading up a little
> > > about it, & I note that it's main function is to get rid of kennel
> > > cough & several other nasty organisms & virus prevention. Have I been
> > > sold a fancy idea, or is it the correct stuff to treat to treat the
> > > pens with? Many thanks Wendy.....
>
> > >http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/prodinfo.asp?number=PARVOVIRU
>
> > > I Learn something new everyday on Usenet. Thanks Wendy :o) Can you
> > > indicate the difference between wet & dry forms, if you know them
> > > please?
> > > Thank you for enlightening me too.
>
> > > I am very sorry if I didn't make myself clear to the OP & Thank you
> > > for putting me right Wendy ...
> > > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> > That cleaner sounds pretty heavy duty if it's effective against Panleuk. I'm
> > not the expert on clean up though. Phil might be better to advise about
> > that. I can bleach anything that my fosters come in contact with and that's
> > what I usually do when faced with one of these nasty organisms. Overkill
> > sometimes but makes me feel better about putting the next kitty in that
> > spot.
>
> > There is a FIP Yahoo group that is quite informative if someone wants more
> > information or clarification about FIP. There are vets who participate and
> > others that are involved with and up to date on the research that is going
> > on in this area. Although there is much discussion among those who's cats
> > are ill and support of those who have lost pets to this disease, there is
> > also much good discussion and information about getting an accurate
> > diagnosis and who has the accurate information and who's blowing smoke,
> > which labs can give you accurate test results and which tests promise more
> > than they can deliver.http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIP/
>
> > Wendy- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
> > Are you saying that for instance a cat that is corona positive is more
> > likely to get an URI than the cat next door who is corona negative? If so
> > I've never heard that.
>
> No, I didn't mean to imply that, although I did think that stress was
> a trigger that does make them slightly more susceptible to infection
> than they would have normally ?
>
> > If you're saying that if the cat is suffering with FIP that makes it more
> > susceptible to opportunistic bacterial infections then I'd have to say
> > probably. The cats immune system is already fighting itself because of the
> > FIP.
>
> This is exactly what I meant to imply. It was my understanding that a
> cat who is compromised with FIP is far more susceptible to infection,
> especially in times of stress & ill health in general. (ie: a cat
> with FIP who is feeling ill from the side effects of FIP, would be far
> more likely to be susceptible a virus & get a bacterial infections,
> than say a male cat in good health.)
>
> > That cleaner sounds pretty heavy duty if it's effective against Panleuk. I'm
> > not the expert on clean up though. Phil might be better to advise about
> > that. I can bleach anything that my fosters come in contact with and that's
> > what I usually do when faced with one of these nasty organisms. Overkill
> > sometimes but makes me feel better about putting the next kitty in that
> > spot.
>
> I agree!
> I will be sure to ask him when I see him around. The reason I asked
> the question about it is because I have a friend with a cat with FIP,
> & the more I can find out, the better I can advise her. I had never
> even heard of the problem before we had that little kitty who was so
> poorly that the vet felt he couldn't help him. From what I can glean,
> it is a very commonly misdiagnosed problem that can't be eliminated by
> one test alone; rather lots of tests that do give an accurate
> diagnosis. I know this bottle of stuff cost her in the region of $100,
> so that was why I was asking if she was buying a great idea with no
> effect. It seems that it is pretty strong stuff after all?!!
>
> The links you have provided are invaluable. Thank you for that
> contribution Wendy. It helps a lot & I have forwarded the links to her
> to read too. Her cat has just been diagnosed after a couple of months
> of tests. @ 15 years old, he has had a good life with her from 5 weeks
> old, but now she has reached the point where he is becoming terribly
> hard to feed, so she faces a very similar prognosis. I looked after
> him during the day whilst she has been @ work for the last week, then
> she takes over in the evening. I believe they have spoken with their
> vet to arrange him coming to their house early next week, so that they
> can say good bye to him @ home where he feels safe & comforted. I
> really feel for her. It's a horrible disease!
>
> I have one final question if you have the time to respond Wendy. Is
> there anything that you can do, other than to keeping litter boxes
> scrupulously clean, & new arrivals quarantined, to lessen the chances
> of contracting Corona Virus?

Here's what my 2 vets said:

None of the traditional annual tests had ever shown him to be corona
positive, and corona can mutate, and it just depends on the cat's
immune system and which form of the virus he contracts. They said
different cattery owners and researchers have different experiences--
some say the shots can make at least some cats more susceptible.

My cat came from a shelter when he was estimated to be 2 years old (13
years ago), so they said he could have been infected earlier by a form
that didn't show up that recently mutated.

He had what appeared to be a URI at first, and he did mostly recover
from that (it's not clear if the antibiotics helped or not, from what
I could tell.)

Note: The tests are quite expensive, for anyone who is considering
following in my footsteps, and I'm still not clear if I've done the
best thing for my kitty. I know I did the best thing for my own peace
of mind.

Sheelagh>\o\
December 13th 07, 08:07 PM
On Dec 13, 6:06 am, Dakota > wrote:
> On Dec 12, 12:29 pm, "Sheelagh>\"o\"<" >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 11, 7:03 pm, "Wendy" > wrote:
>
> > > <big snip>
>
> > > > I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear on this one. I meant to indicate
> > > > that the antibiotics would have knocked any bacterial infection ( the
> > > > OP mentioned that he had recently suffered a URI) on the head.
>
> > > I just wanted to clarify that the antibiotics wouldn't help the FIP
> > > infection at all. It's not uncommon for baterial infections to start when
> > > the cat's immune system is busy fighting off a viral infection though.
>
> > > > It was also my understanding that in times of stress or illness, most
> > > > cats with corona virus succumb to infection easily, which is why
> > > > antibiotics are required to get rid of any infection caused as a
> > > > result of fresh breakout? Is this the case Wendy?
>
> > > Are you saying that for instance a cat that is corona positive is more
> > > likely to get an URI than the cat next door who is corona negative? If so
> > > I've never heard that.
>
> > > If you're saying that if the cat is suffering with FIP that makes it more
> > > succeptable to opportunistic bacterial infections then I'd have to say
> > > probably. The cats immune system is already fighting itself because of the
> > > FIP.
>
> > > "FIP develops when a usually harmless strain of FCoV mutates in the cat in a
> > > way that gives the virus the ability to replicate itself in some of the
> > > cat's white cells. When the immune system mounts a defense against the
> > > invaded white cells, which are themselves infection-fighting cells, the
> > > immune system ends up damaging its own protective cells and tissues," says
> > > Dr. Richards. The result is an intense inflammatory reaction in the tissues
> > > where the virus-infected cells reside, which causes damage to multiple
> > > systems at once and ultimately leads to death.
>
> > >http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/news/FIP.htm
>
> > > > I defer to your greater wisdom on this one, because I can only speak
> > > > from the experience of that 1 kitten, & I know that you have dealt
> > > > with more cases of corona virus than I've had hot dinners! I came to
> > > > you for advise on that one, & I do remember you saying that there was
> > > > a wet & dry version now that you mention it. Misdiagnosis is very
> > > > prevalent too, because it takes a number of factors to diagnose Corona
> > > > virus, doesn't it? It is interesting to note that once a cat has FIP
> > > > that it stops shedding. I wasn't aware of that!
>
> > > > >Isn't killed by the use
> > > >> of normal household cleaners. A 32:1 water/bleach solution will kill just
> > > >> about anything but of course can't be used on all surfaces.
>
> > > > Just out of interest, I was given some of this to scrub all of the
> > > > runs, & also the rest of the places that the kitten came into contact
> > > > with. It is called Parvo Virucide. I have been reading up a little
> > > > about it, & I note that it's main function is to get rid of kennel
> > > > cough & several other nasty organisms & virus prevention. Have I been
> > > > sold a fancy idea, or is it the correct stuff to treat to treat the
> > > > pens with? Many thanks Wendy.....
>
> > > >http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/prodinfo.asp?number=PARVOVIRU
>
> > > > I Learn something new everyday on Usenet. Thanks Wendy :o) Can you
> > > > indicate the difference between wet & dry forms, if you know them
> > > > please?
> > > > Thank you for enlightening me too.
>
> > > > I am very sorry if I didn't make myself clear to the OP & Thank you
> > > > for putting me right Wendy ...
> > > > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> > > That cleaner sounds pretty heavy duty if it's effective against Panleuk. I'm
> > > not the expert on clean up though. Phil might be better to advise about
> > > that. I can bleach anything that my fosters come in contact with and that's
> > > what I usually do when faced with one of these nasty organisms. Overkill
> > > sometimes but makes me feel better about putting the next kitty in that
> > > spot.
>
> > > There is a FIP Yahoo group that is quite informative if someone wants more
> > > information or clarification about FIP. There are vets who participate and
> > > others that are involved with and up to date on the research that is going
> > > on in this area. Although there is much discussion among those who's cats
> > > are ill and support of those who have lost pets to this disease, there is
> > > also much good discussion and information about getting an accurate
> > > diagnosis and who has the accurate information and who's blowing smoke,
> > > which labs can give you accurate test results and which tests promise more
> > > than they can deliver.http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIP/
>
> > > Wendy- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
> > > Are you saying that for instance a cat that is corona positive is more
> > > likely to get an URI than the cat next door who is corona negative? If so
> > > I've never heard that.
>
> > No, I didn't mean to imply that, although I did think that stress was
> > a trigger that does make them slightly more susceptible to infection
> > than they would have normally ?
>
> > > If you're saying that if the cat is suffering with FIP that makes it more
> > > susceptible to opportunistic bacterial infections then I'd have to say
> > > probably. The cats immune system is already fighting itself because of the
> > > FIP.
>
> > This is exactly what I meant to imply. It was my understanding that a
> > cat who is compromised with FIP is far more susceptible to infection,
> > especially in times of stress & ill health in general. (ie: a cat
> > with FIP who is feeling ill from the side effects of FIP, would be far
> > more likely to be susceptible a virus & get a bacterial infections,
> > than say a male cat in good health.)
>
> > > That cleaner sounds pretty heavy duty if it's effective against Panleuk. I'm
> > > not the expert on clean up though. Phil might be better to advise about
> > > that. I can bleach anything that my fosters come in contact with and that's
> > > what I usually do when faced with one of these nasty organisms. Overkill
> > > sometimes but makes me feel better about putting the next kitty in that
> > > spot.
>
> > I agree!
> > I will be sure to ask him when I see him around. The reason I asked
> > the question about it is because I have a friend with a cat with FIP,
> > & the more I can find out, the better I can advise her. I had never
> > even heard of the problem before we had that little kitty who was so
> > poorly that the vet felt he couldn't help him. From what I can glean,
> > it is a very commonly misdiagnosed problem that can't be eliminated by
> > one test alone; rather lots of tests that do give an accurate
> > diagnosis. I know this bottle of stuff cost her in the region of $100,
> > so that was why I was asking if she was buying a great idea with no
> > effect. It seems that it is pretty strong stuff after all?!!
>
> > The links you have provided are invaluable. Thank you for that
> > contribution Wendy. It helps a lot & I have forwarded the links to her
> > to read too. Her cat has just been diagnosed after a couple of months
> > of tests. @ 15 years old, he has had a good life with her from 5 weeks
> > old, but now she has reached the point where he is becoming terribly
> > hard to feed, so she faces a very similar prognosis. I looked after
> > him during the day whilst she has been @ work for the last week, then
> > she takes over in the evening. I believe they have spoken with their
> > vet to arrange him coming to their house early next week, so that they
> > can say good bye to him @ home where he feels safe & comforted. I
> > really feel for her. It's a horrible disease!
>
> > I have one final question if you have the time to respond Wendy. Is
> > there anything that you can do, other than to keeping litter boxes
> > scrupulously clean, & new arrivals quarantined, to lessen the chances
> > of contracting Corona Virus?
>
> Here's what my 2 vets said:
>
> None of the traditional annual tests had ever shown him to be corona
> positive, and corona can mutate, and it just depends on the cat's
> immune system and which form of the virus he contracts. They said
> different cattery owners and researchers have different experiences--
> some say the shots can make at least some cats more susceptible.
>
> My cat came from a shelter when he was estimated to be 2 years old (13
> years ago), so they said he could have been infected earlier by a form
> that didn't show up that recently mutated.
>
> He had what appeared to be a URI at first, and he did mostly recover
> from that (it's not clear if the antibiotics helped or not, from what
> I could tell.)
>
> Note: The tests are quite expensive, for anyone who is considering
> following in my footsteps, and I'm still not clear if I've done the
> best thing for my kitty. I know I did the best thing for my own peace
> of mind.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thank you for coming back to us Dakota, I appreciate that very much
indeed. I can see that there is still plenty for me to learn about
this debilitating disease. I'm also grateful for the information that
you have provided here too. It is all knowledge that will help in the
future I'm sure.

I'm delighted to hear that you don't have any other cat's that stood a
chance of contracting it. That is a blessing in disguise I think. In
the instance of my friend, she had no idea what the problem was until
it was too late. She now has 4 cats with Corona virus, & 2 with
confirmed FIP. If your post helps one single person recognise what to
look for, then your story has helped others.

I'm ever so pleased to hear that he has a little cat-i-tude, & looks
like he has turned a corner. Enjoy his company for every moment you
can, because one day those moments will become treasured memories of
life with him in better days.

> some say the shots can make at least some cats more susceptible.

I have never heard this one before now. I take it you mean their
annual shots? Also, what annual shots are you referring to? ( It may
seem a strange question, but my reason for asking is because I would
like to be aware of what shots vets think might make them more
susceptible? Also, I live in the UK, so some shots could be different
here?). Thank you for that information :o)

> Note: The tests are quite expensive, for anyone who is considering
> following in my footsteps, and I'm still not clear if I've done the
> best thing for my kitty.

This I can vouch for too. It is a big expense, but one that you have
no idea about until it happens to you.

>I know I did the best thing for my own peace.

To me, this is the most important thing. you know him ( better than me
or any other person in this group) You love him, so I know that you
will do what is needed when that time arrives. It is clear that you
have done all that you possibly could do to learn about this disease,
& also that you know in your heart that you might have to part with
him soon, & you have never withheld care for him. You would be shocked
@ how many come here rather than afford proper care @ a vet
surgery....

Please keep us up to date with his progress?
I hope he holds steady for a while so that you might enjoy, & love one
another a while longer. Support it always @ hand when required.
Good Luck, & Purrs of comfort
Sheelagh

Dakota
December 15th 07, 04:02 AM
On Dec 13, 3:07 pm, "Sheelagh>\"o\"<" > wrote:
> On Dec 13, 6:06 am, Dakota > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 12, 12:29 pm, "Sheelagh>\"o\"<" >
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 11, 7:03 pm, "Wendy" > wrote:
>
> > > > <big snip>
>
> > > > > I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear on this one. I meant to indicate
> > > > > that the antibiotics would have knocked any bacterial infection ( the
> > > > > OP mentioned that he had recently suffered a URI) on the head.
>
> > > > I just wanted to clarify that the antibiotics wouldn't help the FIP
> > > > infection at all. It's not uncommon for baterial infections to start when
> > > > the cat's immune system is busy fighting off a viral infection though.
>
> > > > > It was also my understanding that in times of stress or illness, most
> > > > > cats with corona virus succumb to infection easily, which is why
> > > > > antibiotics are required to get rid of any infection caused as a
> > > > > result of fresh breakout? Is this the case Wendy?
>
> > > > Are you saying that for instance a cat that is corona positive is more
> > > > likely to get an URI than the cat next door who is corona negative? If so
> > > > I've never heard that.
>
> > > > If you're saying that if the cat is suffering with FIP that makes it more
> > > > succeptable to opportunistic bacterial infections then I'd have to say
> > > > probably. The cats immune system is already fighting itself because of the
> > > > FIP.
>
> > > > "FIP develops when a usually harmless strain of FCoV mutates in the cat in a
> > > > way that gives the virus the ability to replicate itself in some of the
> > > > cat's white cells. When the immune system mounts a defense against the
> > > > invaded white cells, which are themselves infection-fighting cells, the
> > > > immune system ends up damaging its own protective cells and tissues," says
> > > > Dr. Richards. The result is an intense inflammatory reaction in the tissues
> > > > where the virus-infected cells reside, which causes damage to multiple
> > > > systems at once and ultimately leads to death.
>
> > > >http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/news/FIP.htm
>
> > > > > I defer to your greater wisdom on this one, because I can only speak
> > > > > from the experience of that 1 kitten, & I know that you have dealt
> > > > > with more cases of corona virus than I've had hot dinners! I came to
> > > > > you for advise on that one, & I do remember you saying that there was
> > > > > a wet & dry version now that you mention it. Misdiagnosis is very
> > > > > prevalent too, because it takes a number of factors to diagnose Corona
> > > > > virus, doesn't it? It is interesting to note that once a cat has FIP
> > > > > that it stops shedding. I wasn't aware of that!
>
> > > > > >Isn't killed by the use
> > > > >> of normal household cleaners. A 32:1 water/bleach solution will kill just
> > > > >> about anything but of course can't be used on all surfaces.
>
> > > > > Just out of interest, I was given some of this to scrub all of the
> > > > > runs, & also the rest of the places that the kitten came into contact
> > > > > with. It is called Parvo Virucide. I have been reading up a little
> > > > > about it, & I note that it's main function is to get rid of kennel
> > > > > cough & several other nasty organisms & virus prevention. Have I been
> > > > > sold a fancy idea, or is it the correct stuff to treat to treat the
> > > > > pens with? Many thanks Wendy.....
>
> > > > >http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/prodinfo.asp?number=PARVOVIRU
>
> > > > > I Learn something new everyday on Usenet. Thanks Wendy :o) Can you
> > > > > indicate the difference between wet & dry forms, if you know them
> > > > > please?
> > > > > Thank you for enlightening me too.
>
> > > > > I am very sorry if I didn't make myself clear to the OP & Thank you
> > > > > for putting me right Wendy ...
> > > > > Sheelagh >"o"<
>
> > > > That cleaner sounds pretty heavy duty if it's effective against Panleuk. I'm
> > > > not the expert on clean up though. Phil might be better to advise about
> > > > that. I can bleach anything that my fosters come in contact with and that's
> > > > what I usually do when faced with one of these nasty organisms. Overkill
> > > > sometimes but makes me feel better about putting the next kitty in that
> > > > spot.
>
> > > > There is a FIP Yahoo group that is quite informative if someone wants more
> > > > information or clarification about FIP. There are vets who participate and
> > > > others that are involved with and up to date on the research that is going
> > > > on in this area. Although there is much discussion among those who's cats
> > > > are ill and support of those who have lost pets to this disease, there is
> > > > also much good discussion and information about getting an accurate
> > > > diagnosis and who has the accurate information and who's blowing smoke,
> > > > which labs can give you accurate test results and which tests promise more
> > > > than they can deliver.http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIP/
>
> > > > Wendy- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > Are you saying that for instance a cat that is corona positive is more
> > > > likely to get an URI than the cat next door who is corona negative? If so
> > > > I've never heard that.
>
> > > No, I didn't mean to imply that, although I did think that stress was
> > > a trigger that does make them slightly more susceptible to infection
> > > than they would have normally ?
>
> > > > If you're saying that if the cat is suffering with FIP that makes it more
> > > > susceptible to opportunistic bacterial infections then I'd have to say
> > > > probably. The cats immune system is already fighting itself because of the
> > > > FIP.
>
> > > This is exactly what I meant to imply. It was my understanding that a
> > > cat who is compromised with FIP is far more susceptible to infection,
> > > especially in times of stress & ill health in general. (ie: a cat
> > > with FIP who is feeling ill from the side effects of FIP, would be far
> > > more likely to be susceptible a virus & get a bacterial infections,
> > > than say a male cat in good health.)
>
> > > > That cleaner sounds pretty heavy duty if it's effective against Panleuk. I'm
> > > > not the expert on clean up though. Phil might be better to advise about
> > > > that. I can bleach anything that my fosters come in contact with and that's
> > > > what I usually do when faced with one of these nasty organisms. Overkill
> > > > sometimes but makes me feel better about putting the next kitty in that
> > > > spot.
>
> > > I agree!
> > > I will be sure to ask him when I see him around. The reason I asked
> > > the question about it is because I have a friend with a cat with FIP,
> > > & the more I can find out, the better I can advise her. I had never
> > > even heard of the problem before we had that little kitty who was so
> > > poorly that the vet felt he couldn't help him. From what I can glean,
> > > it is a very commonly misdiagnosed problem that can't be eliminated by
> > > one test alone; rather lots of tests that do give an accurate
> > > diagnosis. I know this bottle of stuff cost her in the region of $100,
> > > so that was why I was asking if she was buying a great idea with no
> > > effect. It seems that it is pretty strong stuff after all?!!
>
> > > The links you have provided are invaluable. Thank you for that
> > > contribution Wendy. It helps a lot & I have forwarded the links to her
> > > to read too. Her cat has just been diagnosed after a couple of months
> > > of tests. @ 15 years old, he has had a good life with her from 5 weeks
> > > old, but now she has reached the point where he is becoming terribly
> > > hard to feed, so she faces a very similar prognosis. I looked after
> > > him during the day whilst she has been @ work for the last week, then
> > > she takes over in the evening. I believe they have spoken with their
> > > vet to arrange him coming to their house early next week, so that they
> > > can say good bye to him @ home where he feels safe & comforted. I
> > > really feel for her. It's a horrible disease!
>
> > > I have one final question if you have the time to respond Wendy. Is
> > > there anything that you can do, other than to keeping litter boxes
> > > scrupulously clean, & new arrivals quarantined, to lessen the chances
> > > of contracting Corona Virus?
>
> > Here's what my 2 vets said:
>
> > None of the traditional annual tests had ever shown him to be corona
> > positive, and corona can mutate, and it just depends on the cat's
> > immune system and which form of the virus he contracts. They said
> > different cattery owners and researchers have different experiences--
> > some say the shots can make at least some cats more susceptible.
>
> > My cat came from a shelter when he was estimated to be 2 years old (13
> > years ago), so they said he could have been infected earlier by a form
> > that didn't show up that recently mutated.
>
> > He had what appeared to be a URI at first, and he did mostly recover
> > from that (it's not clear if the antibiotics helped or not, from what
> > I could tell.)
>
> > Note: The tests are quite expensive, for anyone who is considering
> > following in my footsteps, and I'm still not clear if I've done the
> > best thing for my kitty. I know I did the best thing for my own peace
> > of mind.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Thank you for coming back to us Dakota, I appreciate that very much
> indeed. I can see that there is still plenty for me to learn about
> this debilitating disease. I'm also grateful for the information that
> you have provided here too. It is all knowledge that will help in the
> future I'm sure.
>
> I'm delighted to hear that you don't have any other cat's that stood a
> chance of contracting it. That is a blessing in disguise I think. In
> the instance of my friend, she had no idea what the problem was until
> it was too late. She now has 4 cats with Corona virus, & 2 with
> confirmed FIP. If your post helps one single person recognise what to
> look for, then your story has helped others.

My husband reminded me we did have him outside with us occasionally in
the early fall, and our house backs on a wooded park and our neighbors
feed all sorts of feral cats, so that may be how this all happened.
But still, he'd been on meds, so unless his system was already
compromised, the vet said he most likely wouldn't have picked it up.
So maybe age is working against him.

He's eating some of his Science Diet again, but he's looking rangier
again today. I also gave him the other foods he's been eating, and I
will love him as long as he seems stable, but if his health starts to
deteriorate, I'll say goodbye.

Dakota
December 15th 07, 04:04 AM
On Dec 13, 3:07 pm, "Sheelagh>\"o\"<" > wrote:

> I'm delighted to hear that you don't have any other cat's that stood a
> chance of contracting it. That is a blessing in disguise I think. In
> the instance of my friend, she had no idea what the problem was until
> it was too late. She now has 4 cats with Corona virus, & 2 with
> confirmed FIP. If your post helps one single person recognise what to
> look for, then your story has helped others.

My husband reminded me we did have him outside with us occasionally
in
the early fall, and our house backs on a wooded park and our
neighbors
feed all sorts of feral cats, so that may be how this all happened.
But still, he'd been on meds, so unless his system was already
compromised, the vet said he most likely wouldn't have picked it up.
So maybe age is working against him.

He's eating some of his Science Diet again, but he's looking rangier
again today. I also gave him the other foods he's been eating, and I
will love him as long as he seems stable, but if his health starts to
deteriorate, I'll say goodbye.

Sheelagh>\o\
December 19th 07, 01:35 PM
On Dec 15, 4:04 am, Dakota > wrote:
> On Dec 13, 3:07 pm, "Sheelagh>\"o\"<" > wrote:
>
> > I'm delighted to hear that you don't have any other cat's that stood a
> > chance of contracting it. That is a blessing in disguise I think. In
> > the instance of my friend, she had no idea what the problem was until
> > it was too late. She now has 4 cats with Corona virus, & 2 with
> > confirmed FIP. If your post helps one single person recognise what to
> > look for, then your story has helped others.
>
> My husband reminded me we did have him outside with us occasionally
> in
> the early fall, and our house backs on a wooded park and our
> neighbors
> feed all sorts of feral cats, so that may be how this all happened.
> But still, he'd been on meds, so unless his system was already
> compromised, the vet said he most likely wouldn't have picked it up.
> So maybe age is working against him.
>
> He's eating some of his Science Diet again, but he's looking rangier
> again today. I also gave him the other foods he's been eating, and I
> will love him as long as he seems stable, but if his health starts to
> deteriorate, I'll say goodbye.

Thank you for letting us know how you are faring, I appreciate that
very much.

Don't forget that we are always here if you have something that you
would like to talk over with some of us. It's going to be a bumpy
ride, but now that you know what you are dealing with, it won't be so
hard to care for him when things get harder.
Warm Regards,
Sheelagh
PS: Lots of head scritches for kitty