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mc
February 9th 08, 05:24 PM
Catnipped just posted a question about her kitty eating too much dry
food and being worried about crystals forming in the urine and
blocking the urethra.

As some of you may or may not remember, I have a cat that had a rather
serious issue of crystals blocking his urethra. I specifically spoke
with my veterinarian about going to a soft food, and he specifically
told me that people who use the Science Diet for cats, for example,
eight years, and run out over a weekend and purchase some inexpensive
substitute just to get through the weekend can have the cat develop
the crystals in the urine in as short a time span as those two days...
And end up bringing the cat into the vet on Monday...

I trust my veterinarian. He is a very good and knowledgable
veterinarian, probably the best in the state. In addition to his
telling me that dry cat food is recommended, quite a few other
veterinarians I have gone to have also recommended dry food, whether
it be Iams or Science Diet.

Someone had posted that the dental issues are a myth... and I believe
that as well... Just like our own teeth, some people have good teeth,
some don't... Not at all like the American Dental Association would
have had us believing when I was growing up.

So here is the question... Does anyone have some good references for
me as far as where I can get to the bottom of this on my own? To make
a reasonable and responsible decision about what to feed my cats?

It can be hard to find reliable information on the Internet... but I
would love to get as much GOOD information on this as I can.

blkcatgal
February 9th 08, 06:11 PM
I don't think you will ever get a good answer on this subject. Like you, I
have read that dry is not good....high in carbs, less moisture causing
crystal formation, etc. However, my vet also has told me that feeding dry
is fine. I know others who think feeding a raw diet is best. For every
opinion one way, you will get one that is just the opposite. I think you
just have to take the info that you have and make the best decision for your
cat. I feed my 2 male cats about 50/50 dry/canned. They seem to be doing
well on that.

FYI, I have a friend whose male cat just had a recent bout with crystals and
blockage which required surgery. His vet told him to feed his cat nothing
but canned prescription diet from now on. Another friend has a cat that
suffered from crystals which also required surgery. She feeds her cat
nothing but dry prescription diet and her vet is fine with that...and the
cat has been doing well for over 3 years now. So I guess it really just
depends.....there is no definitive answer.

S.
--
**Visit me and my cats at http://www.island-cats.com/ **
---
"mc" > wrote in message
...
> Catnipped just posted a question about her kitty eating too much dry
> food and being worried about crystals forming in the urine and
> blocking the urethra.
>
> As some of you may or may not remember, I have a cat that had a rather
> serious issue of crystals blocking his urethra. I specifically spoke
> with my veterinarian about going to a soft food, and he specifically
> told me that people who use the Science Diet for cats, for example,
> eight years, and run out over a weekend and purchase some inexpensive
> substitute just to get through the weekend can have the cat develop
> the crystals in the urine in as short a time span as those two days...
> And end up bringing the cat into the vet on Monday...
>
> I trust my veterinarian. He is a very good and knowledgable
> veterinarian, probably the best in the state. In addition to his
> telling me that dry cat food is recommended, quite a few other
> veterinarians I have gone to have also recommended dry food, whether
> it be Iams or Science Diet.
>
> Someone had posted that the dental issues are a myth... and I believe
> that as well... Just like our own teeth, some people have good teeth,
> some don't... Not at all like the American Dental Association would
> have had us believing when I was growing up.
>
> So here is the question... Does anyone have some good references for
> me as far as where I can get to the bottom of this on my own? To make
> a reasonable and responsible decision about what to feed my cats?
>
> It can be hard to find reliable information on the Internet... but I
> would love to get as much GOOD information on this as I can.

February 9th 08, 06:57 PM
Hi from Texas:

I have posted a good reference article about FLUTD on my website
http://www.catnews.org

I FREE feed my 7 cats a high grade dry food and I split two cans of
wet food between them once a day in the mornings.

Hope this article helps

Russell :)

<a href="http://www.catnews.org/
five_cat_food_factors_that_discourage_feline_utd.p hp">Feline Urinary
Tract Disease </a> "One of the most common causes of Feline Urinary
Tract Disease (FLUTD) is what your cat eats. A feline diet that is too
high in carbohydrates and magnesium, and low in protein can lead to
FLUTD">read more</a><BR><BR>

Phil P.
February 9th 08, 07:01 PM
"mc" > wrote in message
...
> Catnipped just posted a question about her kitty eating too much dry
> food and being worried about crystals forming in the urine and
> blocking the urethra.
>
> As some of you may or may not remember, I have a cat that had a rather
> serious issue of crystals blocking his urethra. I specifically spoke
> with my veterinarian about going to a soft food, and he specifically
> told me that people who use the Science Diet for cats, for example,
> eight years, and run out over a weekend and purchase some inexpensive
> substitute just to get through the weekend can have the cat develop
> the crystals in the urine in as short a time span as those two days...
> And end up bringing the cat into the vet on Monday...
>
> I trust my veterinarian. He is a very good and knowledgable
> veterinarian, probably the best in the state. In addition to his
> telling me that dry cat food is recommended, quite a few other
> veterinarians I have gone to have also recommended dry food, whether
> it be Iams or Science Diet.
>
> Someone had posted that the dental issues are a myth... and I believe
> that as well... Just like our own teeth, some people have good teeth,
> some don't... Not at all like the American Dental Association would
> have had us believing when I was growing up.
>
> So here is the question... Does anyone have some good references for
> me as far as where I can get to the bottom of this on my own? To make
> a reasonable and responsible decision about what to feed my cats?
>
> It can be hard to find reliable information on the Internet... but I
> would love to get as much GOOD information on this as I can.


http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm#Dry_Food_vs_Canned_Food.__Whi ch_is_reall

Note the references on the bottom of the page, you'll see this is not just
mere opinion.

Here's another- although it applies to feline interrstitial cystitis and the

consumption of dry food:

J Am Vet Med Assoc 1997 Jan 1;210(1):46-50
Clinical evaluation of cats with nonobstructive urinary tract diseases.


Buffington CA, Chew DJ, Kendall MS, Scrivani PV, Thompson SB, Blaisdell JL,
Woodworth BE

Department of Veterinary Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine,
Ohio State University, Columbus 43210, USA.


OBJECTIVE: To identify the underlying cause of clinical signs in cats with
nonobstructive diseases of the bladder and urethra.

DESIGN: Prospective case series.

"SAMPLE POPULATION: 109 cats examined by the urology service of The Ohio
State University's veterinary teaching hospital because of stranguria,
hematuria, pollakiuria, or urination in inappropriate locations.

PROCEDURE: History was obtained and a CBC, serum biochemical
analyses, serologic tests for FeLV and feline immunodeficiency virus,
urinalysis, bacterial culture of urine, and contrast radiography or
urethrocystoscopy (females only) were performed.

RESULTS: 16 cats had cystic calculi: 8 had struvite uroliths, 7 had calcium
oxalate uroliths, and 1 had a urolith of unknown composition in conjunction
with an anatomic defect. Anatomic defects, including diverticulae, urethral
strictures, and a malpositioned urethra, were identified in 12 cats. A
urinary tract infection was identified in 1 cat, and neoplasia was diagnosed
in 2. One of the cats with neoplasia also had a struvite urolith. The
remaining 80 cats did not have an anatomic defect, urolith, or tumor. Ten of
these cats also did not have
radiographic orcystoscopic abnormalities and were presumed to have a
behavioral disorder. The remaining 70 cats had radiographic or cystoscopic
abnormalities, and idiopathic cystitis was diagnosed. In 14 of the cats with
idiopathic cystitis, results of a urinalysis were normal. Cats with
idiopathic cystitis were significantly more likely to eat dry food
exclusively (59%) than were cats in the general population (19%).

CLINICAL IMPLICATIONS: Results suggest that idiopathic cystitis occurs
commonly in cats with stranguria, hematuria, pollakiuria, or inappropriate
elimination and is associated with consumption of dry foods. Contrast
radiography or cystoscopy is necessary for differentiating idiopathic
cystitis from behavioral disorders in some cats."

jmc
February 10th 08, 06:05 AM
Suddenly, without warning, mc exclaimed (2/10/2008 1:54 AM):

> So here is the question... Does anyone have some good references for
> me as far as where I can get to the bottom of this on my own? To make
> a reasonable and responsible decision about what to feed my cats?
>
> It can be hard to find reliable information on the Internet... but I
> would love to get as much GOOD information on this as I can.

All I can tell you is that my cat ate exclusively dry food (Iams,
mostly, was all she'd accept) right up until her first cystitis attack
at 8 years. I added wet to her diet, but she didn't take to it and
mostly refused it. I had better luck getting her to drink more water
but despite that she had two more attacks before I found a method to get
her completely on wet food.

Since being completely on wet food (except her treat ball which has a
mix of Iams senior and Royal Canin urinary), she has not had another attack.

To me, that sounds like dry food was the culprit. But, since cats
physiology is as different as humans', what works for one may work less
well for another.

I think it's not necessarily that they need to eat wet food, as they
need to drink more water; wet food supplies a lot of water.

jmc

---MIKE---
February 10th 08, 02:28 PM
jmc wrote:

>I think it's not necessarily that they need
> to eat wet food, as they need to drink
> more water; wet food supplies a lot of
> water.

Apparently you didn't read all of Phil's download. Cats that drink a
lot of water still don't get as much water as cats that eat canned food.
You can't force a cat to drink enough water. I rarely see Tiger drink
and I have never seen Amber drink. I do add a little water to the
canned food - just enough to soften it.


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44 15' N - Elevation 1580')

mc
February 10th 08, 05:27 PM
Now I am deeply appreciative of all this good information.

But here is another question:

The good doctor says that there are different types of crystals. He
said Maxes crystals can best be helped by diet. He specifically said
that cats with his problem do very well on the food he has prescribed.

Specifically, it is a matter of adjusting the PH in the urine, not how
much water they drink.

Now, as in humans, water can only be beneficial, so I am not disputing
the need for more water... I mean, it makes sense that more water
would help dissolve those crystals, correct? But apparently not all
crystals...???

Note, that despite, up until now anyway, being on a hard food diet,
neither of my cats are over weight - however, there is a bit of a
balancing act that I have to do to keep them just right.

I have never had a problem with a good quality hard food before.

Would I dare to feed my cats something other than a canned cat food
that wasn't a prescription? I don't believe, at this point anyway, I
would dare to just switch to soft food under the assumption that my
cat won't have problems with soft food.

This forum has helped --- I think my next line of action is to find
out exactly the type of crystals Max has and go at my research from
there... Because at this point, I don't have enough information to
make that decision comfortably on my own.

Any help is very much appreciated.

Phil P.
February 10th 08, 10:25 PM
"mc" > wrote in message
...
> Now I am deeply appreciative of all this good information.
>
> But here is another question:
>
> The good doctor says that there are different types of crystals. He
> said Maxes crystals can best be helped by diet. He specifically said
> that cats with his problem do very well on the food he has prescribed.
>
> Specifically, it is a matter of adjusting the PH in the urine, not how
> much water they drink.

That's not entirely accrurate. Water, minerals, and urine pH are
interrelated and all play a role- but water plays the leading role.

First off- a higher water intake results in a higher urine volume. The urine
concentration of all solutes, including calculogenic crystalloids, depends
on urine volume. The higher the urine volume the lower the specific gravity
and the lower the concentration of crystalloids in the urine. The lower the
concentration of crystalloids the less likely they will aggregate or accrete
into larger crystalline particles.

Second- The higher the water intake the more frequently urination will
occur. More frequent urination results in the elimination of crystalloids
before they could they can accrete into larger crystalline particles that
could eventually form into crystals or uroliths.


Regarding urine pH-- The ingredients in the food have a huge effect on urine
pH-- For example: Sulfur-containing amino acids, phospholipids, and
phosphoproteins- typically found in meat- acidify the urine- whereas plant
material- typically found in higher quantities in dry food- has an
alkalinizing effect-- which can promote the formation of struvite
*regardless* of the amount of magnesium in the diet. Actually, struvite is
a function of urine pH- not magnesium. At urine pH of 6.1- 6.2, struvite
won't form regardless of the amount of magnesium in the urine.

And now for the double whammy: Dry food is less digestible than
equal-quality canned food- which means the cat need to eat more dry food
than canned food to derive the same nutrition. By eating more food the cat
ingests more minerals (e.g., magnesium, phosphorus). In one study a few
years back of the same cats fed dry and then canned food, the urinary
magnesium concentration was three times higher when the cats consumed a dry
food than when they ate a canned diet, even though the magnesium content in
the dry matter of the diets was the same.

So even if the magnesium content of the dry and canned food are the same on
a dry matter basis, the cat still ingests more magnesium. Couple that with
the alkalinizing effect of the plant material in dry food and there you have
the recipe for struvite.


>
> Now, as in humans, water can only be beneficial, so I am not disputing
> the need for more water... I mean, it makes sense that more water
> would help dissolve those crystals, correct? But apparently not all
> crystals...???

No. Water does not dissolve crystals. Acidity dissolves struvite but not
calcium oxalate. Calcium oxalate can't be dissolved.

If you can afford it, switch your cats over to a canned diet- its better for
them and its better for you. The difference in price will be more than
offset by fewer vet vists.

Good luck,

Phil

Phil P.
February 10th 08, 10:29 PM
"jmc" > wrote in message
...
> To me, that sounds like dry food was the culprit. But, since cats
> physiology is as different as humans', what works for one may work less
> well for another.


I don't think dry food causes interstitial cystitis- but it probably
exacerbates or aggravates it in cats that that predisposed to it.


Phil

jmc
February 11th 08, 01:31 PM
Suddenly, without warning, Phil P. exclaimed (2/11/2008 6:59 AM):
> "jmc" > wrote in message
> ...
>> To me, that sounds like dry food was the culprit. But, since cats
>> physiology is as different as humans', what works for one may work less
>> well for another.
>
>
> I don't think dry food causes interstitial cystitis- but it probably
> exacerbates or aggravates it in cats that that predisposed to it.
>
>
> Phil
>

Phil, let me ask you this:

Can hard water also exacerbate or aggravate, or even cause, cystitis issues?

I remember being told years ago that I should use bottled water for my
cat here, as the water is *very* hard (broke her Drinkwell in just over
6 months) When I was in England, the water was hard as well, but not so
bad and Meep got tap water. And cystitis.

Now *all* her water comes from Britta. So does mine.

Just wondering what your thoughts are on this?

jmc

Rene S.
February 11th 08, 03:21 PM
> I trust my veterinarian. He is a very good and knowledgable
> veterinarian, probably the best in the state. In addition to his
> telling me that dry cat food is recommended, quite a few other
> veterinarians I have gone to have also recommended dry food, whether
> it be Iams or Science Diet.

Mc,

I have learned that many vets, sadly, are lacking education in feline
nutrition. Most vets get their "training" from Science Diet, so of
course they are going to recommend their dry food. You may trust your
vet's medical advice, but that doesn't mean you have to trust their
nutritional advice. Here are two excellent articles you need to read:
http://www.catinfo.org/index.htm
http://www.catnutrition.org/diabetes.php

mc
February 11th 08, 05:01 PM
I finally finished reading the article that Phil included from Maxes
House on Saturday. Very interesting. Pretty convincing.

Thank you Phil!

Now I am beginning to read the articles Rene S sent... I am printing
the articles now as I type this. I see there is even some kitty food
recipes included ;-)

Thank you Rene!

Thanks everyone for the help and great information :-)

Phil P.
February 11th 08, 07:57 PM
"mc" > wrote in message
...
> I finally finished reading the article that Phil included from Maxes
> House on Saturday. Very interesting. Pretty convincing.

I hope you find it useful. If it helps just one cat all the research was
worthwhile.


>
> Thank you Phil!
>
> Now I am beginning to read the articles Rene S sent... I am printing
> the articles now as I type this. I see there is even some kitty food
> recipes included ;-)

I remember when Dr. Pierson wrote her page on nutrition. She told me she
used my nutrition page and some of my sources as references- so I *know* her
information is accurate and trustworthy. Its a shame I can't say the same
for most vets' advice on nutrition.

Best of luck,

Phil

mc
February 12th 08, 12:33 AM
You know, Phil, I am considering taking all of this information to my
vet to try and convince him to start trying to persuade people to feed
their cats canned food.

I was able to convince my former veterinarian, a local vet here in the
town I live in, to stop selling and promoting Science Diet. Now that
veterinarian is gone, but the new one that took up his office still
sells Eukanuba.

I have to think about this all for awhile. I have to read the articles
of few times over at the very least. At that time perhaps I can
convince him to see that hard food isn't a great solution.

Admittedly, hard food is the easiest way to feed cats.

I have been involved in the rescue of various animals in my life,
though RARELY cat or dog rescue. I strongly suspect that the reason
these vets push the hard food is because hard food is mostly what
people want to buy. Otherwise they know people are just going to go to
the grocery store to buy their pet food and at least, generally
speaking, a higher quality dry food is better than a really cheap one.

People want convenience. I suspect this because I have seen so many
"throw-away" animals. If you ever get on Petfinder you will notice,
fairly quickly, that there are so many unwanted cats... and cats seem
to be the least likely, with the exception of rescue groups, to be
neutered or spayed. They are allowed to breed and to go on breeding
with no thought as to the end result.

So, with that said, THANK YOU again for all the great advice! I really
appreciate it :-)

Phil P.
February 12th 08, 03:37 PM
"mc" > wrote in message
...
> You know, Phil, I am considering taking all of this information to my
> vet to try and convince him to start trying to persuade people to feed
> their cats canned food.

For years vet schools just taught the basics in nutrition and didn't make
much of a distinction between feline nutrition from canine nutrition. Most
vets don't bother to study nutrition simply because the pet food industry
has taken nutrition off their hands. Pet food sales reps educate vets and
vet students and only about their products. Most of the time, when you ask a
vet a question about nutrition, s/he will just hand you a printed brochure
from a pet food manufacturer that s/he probably never even read!

A few years ago I read a study in the Journal of the American Veterinary
Medical Association titled "A Survey of Veterinarians Knowledge and
Attitudes About Nutrition"- I gotta tell you--- it scared the hell outta me!


>
> I was able to convince my former veterinarian, a local vet here in the
> town I live in, to stop selling and promoting Science Diet. Now that
> veterinarian is gone, but the new one that took up his office still
> sells Eukanuba.
>
> I have to think about this all for awhile. I have to read the articles
> of few times over at the very least. At that time perhaps I can
> convince him to see that hard food isn't a great solution.
>
> Admittedly, hard food is the easiest way to feed cats.


Of course. That's why its so popular. Its also about 1/3 the cost of canned
food. Pet food manufactures push dry food because the profit margin is also
higher- after all, look what's in it- all dry material.


>
> I have been involved in the rescue of various animals in my life,
> though RARELY cat or dog rescue. I strongly suspect that the reason
> these vets push the hard food is because hard food is mostly what
> people want to buy. Otherwise they know people are just going to go to
> the grocery store to buy their pet food and at least, generally
> speaking, a higher quality dry food is better than a really cheap one.
>
> People want convenience. I suspect this because I have seen so many
> "throw-away" animals. If you ever get on Petfinder you will notice,
> fairly quickly, that there are so many unwanted cats... and cats seem
> to be the least likely, with the exception of rescue groups, to be
> neutered or spayed. They are allowed to breed and to go on breeding
> with no thought as to the end result.

We have about 50 cats on Petfinder, another 200 in foster and another 60 in
our shelter. Last year we trapped and neutered over 2,000 cats- about 70
were female and about 90% of them pregnant. The other 10% were nursing.
Kitten season never ended. Now (Jan.Feb 2008) we've been finding kittens
*5-8 weeks* old-- and a lot of queens already in their third trimester- and
these are all outdoor cats with no access to indoor artificial light.

Here's a little 8-week-old sweetie we found Friday night outside, by herself
and covered with grease and dirt. No signs of siblings or her mother.
http://maxshouse.com/Rescues/Lovely_Luna.jpg


>
> So, with that said, THANK YOU again for all the great advice! I really
> appreciate it :-)

You're very welcome.

Best of luck,

Phil

22brix
February 12th 08, 03:49 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Here's a little 8-week-old sweetie we found Friday night outside, by
> herself
> and covered with grease and dirt. No signs of siblings or her mother.
> http://maxshouse.com/Rescues/Lovely_Luna.jpg
>


She is gorgeous!! What a sweet little face.

Bonnie

mc
February 12th 08, 05:25 PM
She is just GORGEOUS!!! What a cutie!!!

Just makes you wonder what kind of person throws them away? The same
kind of person who doesn't want to bother with neutering, I guess.

Thank you so much! Pleased to meet you :-) Everyone on this board have
been really
fantastic :-)

Phil P.
February 13th 08, 12:13 AM
"22brix" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > Here's a little 8-week-old sweetie we found Friday night outside, by
> > herself
> > and covered with grease and dirt. No signs of siblings or her mother.
> > http://maxshouse.com/Rescues/Lovely_Luna.jpg
> >
>
>
> She is gorgeous!! What a sweet little face.

Here's another li' darlin' Calico. She was born with no eyes. We got to her
5 mins before she was going to be killed.

http://maxshouse.com/Rescues/Li'l%20Chloe-.jpg

She was adopted by a truly wonderful family. They say if you didn't see her
face you wouldn't know she was blind. She's about 5 months old now (about 6
weeks in the photo) and jumps, runs and plays like a sighted cat.

Phil

Phil P.
February 13th 08, 12:14 AM
"mc" > wrote in message
...
> She is just GORGEOUS!!! What a cutie!!!

> Just makes you wonder what kind of person throws them away? The same
> kind of person who doesn't want to bother with neutering, I guess.

I'm thinking she was probably dumped the same night we found her. I can't
see how she could have survived outside on her own in this cold spell we've
been having. But then again she's a Calico-- so anything is possible!


Phil

shamey jo
February 13th 08, 12:54 PM
This information is copied directly from a newsletter I get from
http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001wvCqicrkxNQwhRyK6Ey1J5hN-LQZucJ7KygcdzlM5z6eJc4v4-QyanBjmB_AVD5SfsG9Ld94W2bCXWNvwi1ECQwDotFoENkpyxPo IE6j5QHUiD9E1DsnvA==

As an obligate carnivore, the cat is unique among mammals in its
insulin response to dietary carbohydrates, protein and fat. The cat is
exclusively adapted to a carnivorous diet and is not metabolically
adapted to ingestion of excess carbohydrate.

That cats have no dietary requirement for carbohydrate is no secret to
pet food manufacturers, although it seems to surprise many cat owners
and even some veterinarians.

Pet owners should not be shopping for foods that cats have difficulty
processing. Rather, they should be thinking about the nutrition found
in what cat would eat in the wild. If your cat gets out, he doesn't
bring back an ear of corn, he catches a mouse. This near perfect cat
food is only 3% carbohydrate, and has plenty of protein, healthy fats,
and moisture.

Since domestication, cats have been fed diets that are easy for the
food manufactures but not natural to cats. Many of the diseases that
we treat are a result of the foods owners feed.

Example is the epidemic of obesity; 35 to 40% of cats are obese. Obese
cats are four times more likely to develop diabetes mellitus and five
times as likely to develop lameness. Fat cats also have a higher
incidence of non-allergic skin disease, most likely caused by their
inability to clean themselves as effectively, due to their size.
Obesity is most likely caused by diets with too high a carbohydrate
content.

As strict carnivores, cats have a tremendous ability to produce
glucose from protein, but have difficulty processing carbohydrates.
The feline liver can't handle excess glucose. So that glucose hangs
around for a long period of time and it eventually becomes fat.

So what's the ideal cat food diet? Feed a wet food, high in protein,
high in fat, and low in carbohydrates. This diet, if fed in the right
quantities, is satisfying, will keep a cat slim, and help it avoid
diabetes.

A wet cat food mimics what a cat eats in the wild. Think of how much
water a mouse contains. Wet cat food is going to give you a pH that is
ideal and is the best way to prevent feline lower urinary tract
inflammation. In addition, a cat's jaws and teeth are designed for
shearing and tearing meat, and cats that eat dry food grind it in a
way that ends up between their teeth. It then ferments into sugar and
acid, thereby causing dental problems.

It all comes down to common sense. We must use a cat's natural diet as
a guideline.

(Check out My Fat Cat: Ten Simple Steps to Help Your Pet Lose Weight
for a Long and Happy Life. By Martha Garvey; forward by Deborah Greco,
DVM.)

mc
February 13th 08, 05:21 PM
Those articles I got from all of you have been really enlightening. I
finished reading the written stuff by Dr. Pierson last night.

I just called the Vets office, here in my town, closer to home, to see
if they carry Wellness, and they do. The woman in the office are
wonderful and I talked to the tech about it, too.

I really feel that I can afford to switch over entirely to Wellness,
and given my two boys... I don't think it is going to be that hard.
Neither of them are particularly fussy. I think the transition will be
more difficult for Butterball than for Max.

As I read the article by Dr. Pierson I was truly horrified by what we
do to our cats! I have always felt that dry foods were less than
optimum, but thought I was doing the best thing I could by buying a
higher quality dry food.

I feel that Wellness is the solution for me here. The tech called me
back and said the good doctor cannot say that canned food is going to
solve the problem!

I am still concerned that neither vets are supporting me on this
issue.

I really feel that I need to put a package of information together and
talk to both of the vets about this! I am still stuck on the PH issue,
I guess... But I don't feel that I am getting straight answers from
the vet either... they are not stating facts to me, which is what I
want to hear.

I am sorry if I sound like I am being wishy washy here. I do believe,
I know, that dry foods are not a very good solution.

Phil P.
February 13th 08, 06:28 PM
"mc" > wrote in message
...
> Those articles I got from all of you have been really enlightening. I
> finished reading the written stuff by Dr. Pierson last night.
>
> I just called the Vets office, here in my town, closer to home, to see
> if they carry Wellness, and they do. The woman in the office are
> wonderful and I talked to the tech about it, too.
>
> I really feel that I can afford to switch over entirely to Wellness,
> and given my two boys... I don't think it is going to be that hard.
> Neither of them are particularly fussy. I think the transition will be
> more difficult for Butterball than for Max.
>
> As I read the article by Dr. Pierson I was truly horrified by what we
> do to our cats! I have always felt that dry foods were less than
> optimum, but thought I was doing the best thing I could by buying a
> higher quality dry food.
>
> I feel that Wellness is the solution for me here. The tech called me
> back and said the good doctor cannot say that canned food is going to
> solve the problem!
>
> I am still concerned that neither vets are supporting me on this
> issue.
>
> I really feel that I need to put a package of information together and
> talk to both of the vets about this! I am still stuck on the PH issue,
> I guess... But I don't feel that I am getting straight answers from
> the vet either... they are not stating facts to me, which is what I
> want to hear.
>
> I am sorry if I sound like I am being wishy washy here. I do believe,
> I know, that dry foods are not a very good solution.


If your vet needs credentials to finally see the light, here's an excerpt
from an article in the chapter on the urinary system in Consultations in
Feline Internal Medicine. It was written by Tony Buffington, the president
and Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Nutrition and Diplomate
of the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine, and PhD in
veterinary Nutrition.

"Cats with idiopathic cystitis are significantly more likely to eat dry food
exclusively. Recently, we reported that lower urinary tract signs recurred
in only 11 per cent of cats with FIC during a year of feeding the canned
formulation of a veterinary food designed to result in production of acidic
urine. Recurrence occurred in 39 per cent of cats fed the dry form of the
food, suggesting that both constancy and consistency (dry versus canned) may
be important, although the reasons for this effect remain to be determined.
Both diets contained similar potential renal solute loads, and resulted in
similar urine pH. Interestingly, the urine specific gravity of cats fed the
dry form averaged 1.050, whereas that of those fed the canned diet averaged
1.030. It appears that the canned form protected nearly 90 per cent of cats
against recurrence of lower urinary tract signs for up to 1 year, constancy
of diet protected about 60 per cent, and signs recurred in 10 per cent of
cats despite the diet change."


If you want the entire article email me.

Phil

mc
February 13th 08, 11:47 PM
My regular vet is forty five minutes from me. I called him this
morning about this, along with our more local vet, and the further vet
finally called me back just a few minutes ago.

I have made some progress here. They agreed that I could try the
Wellness. They did say however, that they would like to check Max in
two weeks after I have begun the Wellness to be sure the PH in his
urine is still OK. Based on what I read last night and from the
article on your website, Phil, I am sure the PH will be just fine in
two weeks.

How about that? I feel like I have made some steps here :-) This will
also give me some time to get my resources together to present all of
this to them.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate all your help. I am sure that I
want to feed my cats the Wellness... and possibly even experiment with
some home made food - but not so sure about that yet. I mean... I will
have to think about that some more.

Again, thanks so much, I will email you for the rest of the article.
This at least has gotten me started on researching all of this
further.

THANK YOU!!!

mc
February 14th 08, 01:53 AM
Phil,

I tried to email you but it says something about the mailbox being
full...

I would love to have the rest of the article ;-)

Rene S.
February 14th 08, 06:15 PM
> I can't tell you how much I appreciate all your help. I am sure that I
> want to feed my cats the Wellness... and possibly even experiment with
> some home made food - but not so sure about that yet. I mean... I will
> have to think about that some more.

Kudos to you for sticking to your guns. Wellness is an excellent food
and you won't regret switching to it.

mc
February 15th 08, 02:40 AM
Do you know... this is the funniest thing of all... I was really
chuckling tonight... I fed Butterball, the cat I thought would be the
hardest to switch over... about a third of the larger can...

He went right to it! He ate the whole amount! I couldn't believe it!

I don't think the change over will be too difficult!

YEAH!!!

Thanks everyone!!!

Phil... I have emailed you a few times today ;-)

Good news!

Phil P.
February 15th 08, 07:00 PM
"mc" > wrote in message
...
> Do you know... this is the funniest thing of all... I was really
> chuckling tonight... I fed Butterball, the cat I thought would be the
> hardest to switch over... about a third of the larger can...
>
> He went right to it! He ate the whole amount! I couldn't believe it!
>
> I don't think the change over will be too difficult!
>
> YEAH!!!
>
> Thanks everyone!!!
>
> Phil... I have emailed you a few times today ;-)
>
> Good news!

I got them.. I'll reply as soon as I can.

Phil