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Cat Protector
March 24th 08, 12:20 AM
It looks like Icarus may be going back to the vet for another possible
urinary obstruction. I called the vet and left a message so hopefully I'll
get a call back despite it being a Sunday. I've followed all of the vet's
instructions and he gets canned food quite often every day and also gets
water. Today, he was throwing up and also has a bit of diarrhea. He was just
at the vet on Wednesday to have a urine sample done and the vet was able to
get good stream of urine from him. This is pretty unreal because it's
costing quite a lot to have him in and out of the vet. The worst part is
that Icarus's attitude at the vet is pretty unruly.

I put Icarus in the bathroom with his own litterbox. He's also had his
medication every single day so I don't know how he could have had all this
happen again. He's been kept hydrated. It's getting to be pretty expensive.

Cheryl
March 24th 08, 01:31 AM
On Sun 23 Mar 2008 08:20:17p, Cat Protector wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
>:

<snip>
> He's also had his
> medication every single day so I don't know how he could have
> had all this happen again. He's been kept hydrated. It's getting
> to be pretty expensive.

I'm so sorry. I sure can understand that you'd be upset. I hope there
is a permanent fix for Icarus so he doesn't keep getting sick. Wish I
had something helpful to post.

--
Cheryl

Candace
March 24th 08, 01:35 AM
On Mar 23, 6:31*pm, Cheryl > wrote:
> On Sun 23 Mar 2008 08:20:17p, Cat Protector wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> >:
>
> <snip>
>
> > He's also had his
> > medication every single day so I don't know how he could have
> > had all this happen again. He's been kept hydrated. It's getting
> > to be pretty expensive.
>
> I'm so sorry. I sure can understand that you'd be upset. I hope there
> is a permanent fix for Icarus so he doesn't keep getting sick. Wish I
> had something helpful to post.
>
> --
> Cheryl

Me, too, I hope everything is okay. It's especially bad when they get
sick on a weekend/holiday and today is both.

Candace

mc
March 24th 08, 01:53 AM
On Mar 23, 8:35 pm, Candace > wrote:
> On Mar 23, 6:31 pm, Cheryl > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sun 23 Mar 2008 08:20:17p, Cat Protector wrote in
> > rec.pets.cats.health+behav


I am so sorry to hear this. I know you love your kitty.

I will tell you this... about the cost... Discuss the financial
concerns with your Veterinarian... You might be really amazed at how
willing they are to work with you.

I was really lucky with Max, mine cut the cost of the surgery and all
treatments way down for me. Then, in addition, they have allowed me to
make payments.

It sounds like you have already developed a good relationship with
your vet, so this will go along way as well...

I am wishing you much luck.

Melissa

Cat Protector
March 24th 08, 02:00 AM
Thanks. I just don't know what else to do since he was just at the vet on
Wednesday and despite the crystals the vet was able to get a urine sample
without a problem. I've been doing everything as instructed by the vet.


"Cheryl" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun 23 Mar 2008 08:20:17p, Cat Protector wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> >:
>
> <snip>
>> He's also had his
>> medication every single day so I don't know how he could have
>> had all this happen again. He's been kept hydrated. It's getting
>> to be pretty expensive.
>
> I'm so sorry. I sure can understand that you'd be upset. I hope there
> is a permanent fix for Icarus so he doesn't keep getting sick. Wish I
> had something helpful to post.
>
> --
> Cheryl
>
>

Cat Protector
March 24th 08, 02:04 AM
Thanks Candace. I feel so helpless here. I called the vet and left a
message. I considered the emergency vet but they'd be 10 times more
expensive and from what I've heard, none too willing to work out a payment
plan. I was able to work out a payment plan with our vet and just got done
paying off Icarus's first bill (and Jade's bill still to go). I just don't
know what else to do.

"Candace" > wrote in message
...
Me, too, I hope everything is okay. It's especially bad when they get
sick on a weekend/holiday and today is both.

Candace

Cat Protector
March 24th 08, 02:09 AM
I already have worked out a payment plan with the vet but it's starting to
get impossible. I feel so helpless right now because I just got done paying
for one bill and still have to pay for Jade's as well as another bill. I'm
trying to stay positive but today he got sick again with possibly the same
thing and trying to pay the bills is tough. Icarus deserves the care he
needs. It just saddens me that he needs more and is having to struggle with
this.

"mc" > wrote in message
...
> I am so sorry to hear this. I know you love your kitty.
>
> I will tell you this... about the cost... Discuss the financial
> concerns with your Veterinarian... You might be really amazed at how
> willing they are to work with you.
>
> I was really lucky with Max, mine cut the cost of the surgery and all
> treatments way down for me. Then, in addition, they have allowed me to
> make payments.
>
> It sounds like you have already developed a good relationship with
> your vet, so this will go along way as well...
>
> I am wishing you much luck.
>
> Melissa

mc
March 24th 08, 04:29 AM
On Mar 23, 9:09 pm, "Cat Protector" > wrote:

Hang in there... it will be OK. There is help, I only wish I knew
where to tell you to go. Vets will usually try to figure out
something that is workable for both of you.

Please do not despair yet. My heart goes out to you because I do know
you love Icarus.

Believe me though, you will figure something out, between you and the
vet...

Hang in there. Icarus is really lucky to have you ;-)

Cat Protector
March 24th 08, 05:34 AM
Thanks. He was rushed to the vet tonight and I assisted in the surgery. The
vet put a catheter in and now Icarus is on fluids and will be there probably
for a couple of days. I'm thankful he has such a caring vet. Four Peaks
Animal Clinic really cares about their patients and Icarus is a pretty tough
one. The vet happens to board animals as well so I was lucky that he was
there and returned my call so Icarus could be brought in. I was there for a
couple hours.

"mc" > wrote in message
...
> On Mar 23, 9:09 pm, "Cat Protector" > wrote:
>
> Hang in there... it will be OK. There is help, I only wish I knew
> where to tell you to go. Vets will usually try to figure out
> something that is workable for both of you.
>
> Please do not despair yet. My heart goes out to you because I do know
> you love Icarus.
>
> Believe me though, you will figure something out, between you and the
> vet...
>
> Hang in there. Icarus is really lucky to have you ;-)
>
>
>

blkcatgal
March 24th 08, 01:29 PM
Hope Icarus is okay and recovers well from this latest episode. You're
lucky to have such a caring vet. Keep us posted on Icarus's progress.

S.
--
**Visit me and my cats at http://www.island-cats.com/ **
---
"Cat Protector" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks. He was rushed to the vet tonight and I assisted in the surgery.
> The vet put a catheter in and now Icarus is on fluids and will be there
> probably for a couple of days. I'm thankful he has such a caring vet. Four
> Peaks Animal Clinic really cares about their patients and Icarus is a
> pretty tough one. The vet happens to board animals as well so I was lucky
> that he was there and returned my call so Icarus could be brought in. I
> was there for a couple hours.
>
> "mc" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Mar 23, 9:09 pm, "Cat Protector" > wrote:
>>
>> Hang in there... it will be OK. There is help, I only wish I knew
>> where to tell you to go. Vets will usually try to figure out
>> something that is workable for both of you.
>>
>> Please do not despair yet. My heart goes out to you because I do know
>> you love Icarus.
>>
>> Believe me though, you will figure something out, between you and the
>> vet...
>>
>> Hang in there. Icarus is really lucky to have you ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Cat Protector
March 24th 08, 02:02 PM
Thanks. I will.. He was doing so well and I was following everything the vet
told me to do with him. He got his meds every day and his special canned
diet as well. I feel so helpless on this one. The vet says that in another
12 hours and he would've been one sick kitty. His bladder was full. It took
quite a few tries for the vet to get the catheter in. This is so trying
because it's getting to be expensive. The vet says that some people choose
to have euthanasia done because it gets to be expensive and also because
their cats keep getting blocked. I couldn't do that to Icarus although I'm
short on money these days.

"blkcatgal" > wrote in message
. ..
> Hope Icarus is okay and recovers well from this latest episode. You're
> lucky to have such a caring vet. Keep us posted on Icarus's progress.
>
> S.
> --
> **Visit me and my cats at http://www.island-cats.com/ **

blkcatgal
March 24th 08, 02:31 PM
Refresh my memory, did Icarus have a perineal urethrostomy? I'm a little
suprised he still is getting blocked if he had a PU, even though I've read
that cats who have had the surgery are prediposed to bladder infections.

S.
--
**Visit me and my cats at http://www.island-cats.com/ **
---
"Cat Protector" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks. I will.. He was doing so well and I was following everything the
> vet told me to do with him. He got his meds every day and his special
> canned diet as well. I feel so helpless on this one. The vet says that in
> another 12 hours and he would've been one sick kitty. His bladder was
> full. It took quite a few tries for the vet to get the catheter in. This
> is so trying because it's getting to be expensive. The vet says that some
> people choose to have euthanasia done because it gets to be expensive and
> also because their cats keep getting blocked. I couldn't do that to Icarus
> although I'm short on money these days.
>
> "blkcatgal" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Hope Icarus is okay and recovers well from this latest episode. You're
>> lucky to have such a caring vet. Keep us posted on Icarus's progress.
>>
>> S.
>> --
>> **Visit me and my cats at http://www.island-cats.com/ **
>
>

Cat Protector
March 24th 08, 02:48 PM
No. He hasn't but that is being considered the next time this happens. It
was suggested that I do sub-q fluids at home for him but it's unknown if
Icarus will let me do it because he's such a tough patient. It'd be hard to
get him to stay in one place long enough.


"blkcatgal" > wrote in message
...
> Refresh my memory, did Icarus have a perineal urethrostomy? I'm a little
> suprised he still is getting blocked if he had a PU, even though I've read
> that cats who have had the surgery are prediposed to bladder infections.
>
> S.
> --
> **Visit me and my cats at http://www.island-cats.com/ **
> ---
> "Cat Protector" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Thanks. I will.. He was doing so well and I was following everything the
>> vet told me to do with him. He got his meds every day and his special
>> canned diet as well. I feel so helpless on this one. The vet says that in
>> another 12 hours and he would've been one sick kitty. His bladder was
>> full. It took quite a few tries for the vet to get the catheter in. This
>> is so trying because it's getting to be expensive. The vet says that some
>> people choose to have euthanasia done because it gets to be expensive and
>> also because their cats keep getting blocked. I couldn't do that to
>> Icarus although I'm short on money these days.
>>
>> "blkcatgal" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> Hope Icarus is okay and recovers well from this latest episode. You're
>>> lucky to have such a caring vet. Keep us posted on Icarus's progress.
>>>
>>> S.
>>> --
>>> **Visit me and my cats at http://www.island-cats.com/ **
>>
>>
>
>

Rene S.
March 24th 08, 03:37 PM
On Mar 24, 9:48*am, "Cat Protector" > wrote:
> No. He hasn't but that is being considered the next time this happens. It
> was suggested that I do sub-q fluids at home for him but it's unknown if
> Icarus will let me do it because he's such a tough patient. It'd be hard to
> get him to stay in one place long enough.

If you have to give fluids, then you find a way to give fluids. You
might have to fight him for a while, but it can be done. Ask for an 18
gauge needle so it goes faster (it's a large needle but does not
bother the cat). Give the fluids in a small room with the door closed
so he can't run away. I've also found it helpful to have the cat up on
a counter.

You do what you have to when they're sick. Times like this require
"tough love."

mc
March 24th 08, 04:19 PM
On Mar 24, 10:37 am, "Rene S." > wrote:
> On Mar 24, 9:48 am, "Cat Protector" > wrote:
>
> > No. He hasn't but that is being considered the next time this happens. It


Also, if you don't already... but you can mix the canned kitty food
with a lot of water... I mean to the point that it is almost like a
paste. Add as much water as you need to - but not so it is like water.

I cannot believe how much my cat Max pees now... It is almost as much
as a human could pee... Maybe slightly exagerated. I was downstairs
one day and I heard him on the litterbox and he was really going!!!

Butterball, on the other hand, I can't tell much difference... but
then I wasn't paying that close attention before. I still never catch
Butterball doing anything in the litter box.

Rene S.
March 24th 08, 04:23 PM
From previous posts I remember you saying you left dry food out for
Icarus. PLEASE STOP GIVING DRY FOOD of any kind! He needs as much
moisture as he can get from WET food and the grains in dry food can
exacerbate crystal formation.

Please read this article: http://www.catinfo.org

You need to read this very good book, which explains why dry food is
so bad for cats:
http://www.amazon.com/Your-Cat-Simple-Secrets-Stronger/dp/0312358016/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206375763&sr=8-1

Cat Protector
March 24th 08, 04:25 PM
I've actually done that and had to use a syringe to shoot it in his mouth. I
wish I knew what else to do as I feel kind of helpless at this point.

"mc" > wrote in message
...

> Also, if you don't already... but you can mix the canned kitty food
> with a lot of water... I mean to the point that it is almost like a
> paste. Add as much water as you need to - but not so it is like water.
>
> I cannot believe how much my cat Max pees now... It is almost as much
> as a human could pee... Maybe slightly exagerated. I was downstairs
> one day and I heard him on the litterbox and he was really going!!!
>
> Butterball, on the other hand, I can't tell much difference... but
> then I wasn't paying that close attention before. I still never catch
> Butterball doing anything in the litter box.

Cat Protector
March 24th 08, 04:27 PM
Actually Isis eats the dry food as well and has no problems. From time to
time I add water to it so they still get moisture. They get canned
throughout the day as well.


"Rene S." > wrote in message
...
> From previous posts I remember you saying you left dry food out for
> Icarus. PLEASE STOP GIVING DRY FOOD of any kind! He needs as much
> moisture as he can get from WET food and the grains in dry food can
> exacerbate crystal formation.
>
> Please read this article: http://www.catinfo.org
>
> You need to read this very good book, which explains why dry food is
> so bad for cats:
> http://www.amazon.com/Your-Cat-Simple-Secrets-Stronger/dp/0312358016/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206375763&sr=8-1
>
>

Rene S.
March 24th 08, 04:43 PM
On Mar 24, 11:27*am, "Cat Protector" > wrote:
> Actually Isis eats the dry food as well and has no problems. From time to
> time I add water to it so they still get moisture. They get canned
> throughout the day as well.

Here's my suggestion: why don't you feed Icarus canned food ONLY for
one month and see what happens. At this point, what do you have to
lose? What you're doing now is obviously not working. The veterinary
community has changed their recommendations and now recommend canned
food only for cats with urinary problems. I have a friend who is a
veterinarian that has said repeatedly that he will not recommend dry
food for cats, especially those with urinary conditions--and he also
won't sell dry food of any kind in his clinic. It's the old-school
vets that aren't up on the latest information that are still
recommending dry.

I'd suggest you try feeding a grain-free, high quality canned food
such as Wellness or Innova. I've fed Wellness in the past myself and
it's an excellent food. Here's their web site: http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/

Cat Protector
March 24th 08, 04:56 PM
Easier said than done. Isis still will want some of the dry food. Keeping
them out of each other's food is also a problem. I'll be talking with the
vet about the food options today. It would be nice if one of the food
companies came out with a softer dry food so they still get the moisture. I
could try canned food only for a month but the vet will still want him on
the Science Diet SD. Is there any wet food that can be free fed?


"Rene S." > wrote in message
...
On Mar 24, 11:27 am, "Cat Protector" > wrote:
> Actually Isis eats the dry food as well and has no problems. From time to
> time I add water to it so they still get moisture. They get canned
> throughout the day as well.

Here's my suggestion: why don't you feed Icarus canned food ONLY for
one month and see what happens. At this point, what do you have to
lose? What you're doing now is obviously not working. The veterinary
community has changed their recommendations and now recommend canned
food only for cats with urinary problems. I have a friend who is a
veterinarian that has said repeatedly that he will not recommend dry
food for cats, especially those with urinary conditions--and he also
won't sell dry food of any kind in his clinic. It's the old-school
vets that aren't up on the latest information that are still
recommending dry.

I'd suggest you try feeding a grain-free, high quality canned food
such as Wellness or Innova. I've fed Wellness in the past myself and
it's an excellent food. Here's their web site:
http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/

CatNipped[_2_]
March 24th 08, 05:35 PM
"Cat Protector" > wrote in message
...
> Easier said than done. Isis still will want some of the dry food. Keeping
> them out of each other's food is also a problem. I'll be talking with the
> vet about the food options today. It would be nice if one of the food
> companies came out with a softer dry food so they still get the moisture.
> I could try canned food only for a month but the vet will still want him
> on the Science Diet SD. Is there any wet food that can be free fed?
>

Female cats don't have the same type of urinary tract problems that males do
(their urethras are MUCH wider and don't get blocked up with struvite
crystals nearly as often). It won't hurt Isis *at all* to be on a canned
only diet (in fact it will be better for her) and it might help Icarus a
huge amount, so what have you got to lose?

Hugs,

CatNipped

mc
March 24th 08, 05:50 PM
On Mar 24, 12:35 pm, "CatNipped" > wrote:
> "Cat Protector" > wrote in message
>
> ...


These are all really good suggestions... I can tell you this much: I
honestly wonder if my Max cat would have needed this horrible surgery
if I had not switched over to the wet food sooner.

If you could see how much he pees now... unbelievable the difference.

I was following the vets advice to a "T" as well... feeding the dry C/
D and Max had not even finished the bag before he had to go back to
the vet again for the surgery.

Good luck with this.

mc
March 24th 08, 05:58 PM
On Mar 24, 12:50 pm, mc > wrote:
> On Mar 24, 12:35 pm, "CatNipped" > wrote:
>
> > "Cat Protector" > wrote in message



There really truly is no real reason for anyone to "need" to feed dry
food.

The wet food can be left out for awhile at least.

Seems to me dry food is more like a "treat" and you know, treats
aren't good for we people, either, more so as we get older.

I only wish someone would control my intake of food for me.... hahaha

I would worry more about making sure the cat is getting good wet food
and not worry so much about feeding throughout the day.

mc
March 24th 08, 06:05 PM
On Mar 24, 12:58 pm, mc > wrote:
> On Mar 24, 12:50 pm, mc > wrote:
>
> > On Mar 24, 12:35 pm, "CatNipped" > wrote:



Now for a bit of humor:

On a side note, last night Max and Butterball were eating there usual
nightly dinner... and, as is typical, Max scarfed his food down so
quickly, while Butterball is a much slower eater...

Now Max is bumping Butterball off his dish of food... and of the two
of them, Butterball is the slimmer one (who would have guessed it???).

So I picked up Max and very gently scolded him. I know he understood.
I know he did! I held his face to mine and forced direct eye
contact... Maxes eyes were as big and black and like saucers!

I put Max down and he didn't bother Butterball anymore. He truly is a
gentleman at heart... it is just that sometimes he needs a reminder...
hehehe

mc
March 24th 08, 06:06 PM
On Mar 24, 12:58 pm, mc > wrote:
> On Mar 24, 12:50 pm, mc > wrote:
>
> > On Mar 24, 12:35 pm, "CatNipped" > wrote:
>

Also, your doctor may just go ahead and give you the OK to try the
Wellness for a month... Mine did. Unfortunately it was too late.

If you must feed the C/D try the canned form of it...


GOOD LUCK! My heart goes out to you!!!

Rene S.
March 24th 08, 06:08 PM
On Mar 24, 11:56*am, "Cat Protector" > wrote:
> Easier said than done. Isis still will want some of the dry food. Keeping
> them out of each other's food is also a problem. I'll be talking with the
> vet about the food options today. It would be nice if one of the food
> companies came out with a softer dry food so they still get the moisture. I
> could try canned food only for a month but the vet will still want him on
> the Science Diet SD. Is there any wet food that can be free fed?

As Catnipped said, it will be best if you completely eliminate the dry
food for both cats. Wet food can NOT be free fed due to the nature of
the product--it can quickly spoil and develop bacteria if left out
more than a short time. What I can't understand is why you feel the
need to have food out all the time. Two canned feedings per day every
12 hours is all they need.

As for talking about to the vet about food, this is not your best bet.
It's been said here many times before (and I know from experience with
one of my cats) that most vets know little about cat nutrition. You've
followed your vet's advice thus far about the food and where has it
gotten you--trips back to the vet for the same problem and Icarus
having continually suffer with a lot of pain and discomfort. It's time
to take action and try something else: feed canned SD only for a while
(and feed Isis a high-quality canned food, such as Wellness). It's
very simple to feed them in separate areas once they are used to the
schedules. My own cats used to free feed on dry food, but I was able
to transition both to 12 hour feedings. I put them in separate rooms
while I get ready for work (about 1/2 hour). Easy to do and each gets
the appropriate amount of food.

Because I know what each cat eats per day, I am able to budget the
food costs down to the last dollar per month. Feeding a food such as
Wellness is actually saving me money long term, as I have had fewer
vet bills and NO recurrances of urinary problems (one of my cats had
this when I fed dry). An added benefit is that canned can help
overweight cats slowly lose weight, as one of mine did. He's since
maintained a healthy weight on wet food for over three years.

blkcatgal
March 24th 08, 06:14 PM
I know what you mean about vets not knowing about feline nutrition. My own
vet pushes dry food.

I feed my cats a combo of wet and dry (probably more wet than dry) and that
works out pretty well for them.

S.
--
**Visit me and my cats at http://www.island-cats.com/ **
---
"Rene S." > wrote in message
...
On Mar 24, 11:56 am, "Cat Protector" > wrote:
> Easier said than done. Isis still will want some of the dry food. Keeping
> them out of each other's food is also a problem. I'll be talking with the
> vet about the food options today. It would be nice if one of the food
> companies came out with a softer dry food so they still get the moisture.
> I
> could try canned food only for a month but the vet will still want him on
> the Science Diet SD. Is there any wet food that can be free fed?

As Catnipped said, it will be best if you completely eliminate the dry
food for both cats. Wet food can NOT be free fed due to the nature of
the product--it can quickly spoil and develop bacteria if left out
more than a short time. What I can't understand is why you feel the
need to have food out all the time. Two canned feedings per day every
12 hours is all they need.

As for talking about to the vet about food, this is not your best bet.
It's been said here many times before (and I know from experience with
one of my cats) that most vets know little about cat nutrition. You've
followed your vet's advice thus far about the food and where has it
gotten you--trips back to the vet for the same problem and Icarus
having continually suffer with a lot of pain and discomfort. It's time
to take action and try something else: feed canned SD only for a while
(and feed Isis a high-quality canned food, such as Wellness). It's
very simple to feed them in separate areas once they are used to the
schedules. My own cats used to free feed on dry food, but I was able
to transition both to 12 hour feedings. I put them in separate rooms
while I get ready for work (about 1/2 hour). Easy to do and each gets
the appropriate amount of food.

Because I know what each cat eats per day, I am able to budget the
food costs down to the last dollar per month. Feeding a food such as
Wellness is actually saving me money long term, as I have had fewer
vet bills and NO recurrances of urinary problems (one of my cats had
this when I fed dry). An added benefit is that canned can help
overweight cats slowly lose weight, as one of mine did. He's since
maintained a healthy weight on wet food for over three years.

Cat Protector
March 24th 08, 06:21 PM
That's pretty much what I've been doing.


"blkcatgal" > wrote in message
. ..
>I know what you mean about vets not knowing about feline nutrition. My own
>vet pushes dry food.
>
> I feed my cats a combo of wet and dry (probably more wet than dry) and
> that works out pretty well for them.
>
> S.
> --
> **Visit me and my cats at http://www.island-cats.com/ **
> ---
> "Rene S." > wrote in message
> ...
> On Mar 24, 11:56 am, "Cat Protector" > wrote:
>> Easier said than done. Isis still will want some of the dry food. Keeping
>> them out of each other's food is also a problem. I'll be talking with the
>> vet about the food options today. It would be nice if one of the food
>> companies came out with a softer dry food so they still get the moisture.
>> I
>> could try canned food only for a month but the vet will still want him on
>> the Science Diet SD. Is there any wet food that can be free fed?
>
> As Catnipped said, it will be best if you completely eliminate the dry
> food for both cats. Wet food can NOT be free fed due to the nature of
> the product--it can quickly spoil and develop bacteria if left out
> more than a short time. What I can't understand is why you feel the
> need to have food out all the time. Two canned feedings per day every
> 12 hours is all they need.
>
> As for talking about to the vet about food, this is not your best bet.
> It's been said here many times before (and I know from experience with
> one of my cats) that most vets know little about cat nutrition. You've
> followed your vet's advice thus far about the food and where has it
> gotten you--trips back to the vet for the same problem and Icarus
> having continually suffer with a lot of pain and discomfort. It's time
> to take action and try something else: feed canned SD only for a while
> (and feed Isis a high-quality canned food, such as Wellness). It's
> very simple to feed them in separate areas once they are used to the
> schedules. My own cats used to free feed on dry food, but I was able
> to transition both to 12 hour feedings. I put them in separate rooms
> while I get ready for work (about 1/2 hour). Easy to do and each gets
> the appropriate amount of food.
>
> Because I know what each cat eats per day, I am able to budget the
> food costs down to the last dollar per month. Feeding a food such as
> Wellness is actually saving me money long term, as I have had fewer
> vet bills and NO recurrances of urinary problems (one of my cats had
> this when I fed dry). An added benefit is that canned can help
> overweight cats slowly lose weight, as one of mine did. He's since
> maintained a healthy weight on wet food for over three years.
>

Rene S.
March 24th 08, 06:36 PM
And it's not working. That's why we are all saying eliminate the dry
food! Yes, it's true that some cats can tolerate dry but cats should
not have to tolerate their food--they should thrive on it. Dry food is
making Icarus sick and causing him a lot of pain and costing you a lot
of money.

On Mar 24, 1:21*pm, "Cat Protector" > wrote:
> That's pretty much what I've been doing.
>
> "blkcatgal" > wrote in message
>
> . ..
>
> >I know what you mean about vets not knowing about feline nutrition. *My own
> >vet pushes dry food.
>
> > I feed my cats a combo of wet and dry (probably more wet than dry) and
> > that works out pretty well for them.
>
> > S.
> > --
> > **Visit me and my cats athttp://www.island-cats.com/**
> > ---
> > "Rene S." > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Mar 24, 11:56 am, "Cat Protector" > wrote:
> >> Easier said than done. Isis still will want some of the dry food. Keeping
> >> them out of each other's food is also a problem. I'll be talking with the
> >> vet about the food options today. It would be nice if one of the food
> >> companies came out with a softer dry food so they still get the moisture.
> >> I
> >> could try canned food only for a month but the vet will still want him on
> >> the Science Diet SD. Is there any wet food that can be free fed?
>
> > As Catnipped said, it will be best if you completely eliminate the dry
> > food for both cats. Wet food can NOT be free fed due to the nature of
> > the product--it can quickly spoil and develop bacteria if left out
> > more than a short time. What I can't understand is why you feel the
> > need to have food out all the time. Two canned feedings per day every
> > 12 hours is all they need.
>
> > As for talking about to the vet about food, this is not your best bet.
> > It's been said here many times before (and I know from experience with
> > one of my cats) that most vets know little about cat nutrition. You've
> > followed your vet's advice thus far about the food and where has it
> > gotten you--trips back to the vet for the same problem and Icarus
> > having continually suffer with a lot of pain and discomfort. It's time
> > to take action and try something else: feed canned SD only for a while
> > (and feed Isis a high-quality canned food, such as Wellness). It's
> > very simple to feed them in separate areas once they are used to the
> > schedules. My own cats used to free feed on dry food, but I was able
> > to transition both to 12 hour feedings. I put them in separate rooms
> > while I get ready for work (about 1/2 hour). Easy to do and each gets
> > the appropriate amount of food.
>
> > Because I know what each cat eats per day, I am able to budget the
> > food costs down to the last dollar per month. Feeding a food such as
> > Wellness is actually saving me money long term, as I have had fewer
> > vet bills and NO recurrances of urinary problems (one of my cats had
> > this when I fed dry). An added benefit is that canned can help
> > overweight cats slowly lose weight, as one of mine did. He's since
> > maintained a healthy weight on wet food for over three years.

blkcatgal
March 24th 08, 06:38 PM
You may want to seriously consider the PU surgery. Especially if Icarus is
getting blocked continuosly. It may be expensive, but you already are
spending lots every time he gets blocked. I have a friend whose cat was
getting blocked and having urinary infections regularly. Her vet
recommended the PU which they did. Over 3 years later, her cat is doing
fine. One thing I do find amazing, though, is that she feeds this cat dry
c/d. Has been ever since having the surgery (and even before that). And he
is doing fine. No blockages, no urinary infections. I even tried to get
her to switch him to canned food but she said he wouldn't eat it (I don't
think she tried very hard to switch him).

I have another friend whose cat just had the PU surgery but this was out of
necessity....the cat was totally blocked....nearly died. He is doing fine
now too.

S.
--
**Visit me and my cats at http://www.island-cats.com/ **
---
"Cat Protector" > wrote in message
...
> That's pretty much what I've been doing.
>
>
> "blkcatgal" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>I know what you mean about vets not knowing about feline nutrition. My
>>own vet pushes dry food.
>>
>> I feed my cats a combo of wet and dry (probably more wet than dry) and
>> that works out pretty well for them.
>>
>> S.
>> --
>> **Visit me and my cats at http://www.island-cats.com/ **
>> ---
>> "Rene S." > wrote in message
>> ...
>> On Mar 24, 11:56 am, "Cat Protector" > wrote:
>>> Easier said than done. Isis still will want some of the dry food.
>>> Keeping
>>> them out of each other's food is also a problem. I'll be talking with
>>> the
>>> vet about the food options today. It would be nice if one of the food
>>> companies came out with a softer dry food so they still get the
>>> moisture. I
>>> could try canned food only for a month but the vet will still want him
>>> on
>>> the Science Diet SD. Is there any wet food that can be free fed?
>>
>> As Catnipped said, it will be best if you completely eliminate the dry
>> food for both cats. Wet food can NOT be free fed due to the nature of
>> the product--it can quickly spoil and develop bacteria if left out
>> more than a short time. What I can't understand is why you feel the
>> need to have food out all the time. Two canned feedings per day every
>> 12 hours is all they need.
>>
>> As for talking about to the vet about food, this is not your best bet.
>> It's been said here many times before (and I know from experience with
>> one of my cats) that most vets know little about cat nutrition. You've
>> followed your vet's advice thus far about the food and where has it
>> gotten you--trips back to the vet for the same problem and Icarus
>> having continually suffer with a lot of pain and discomfort. It's time
>> to take action and try something else: feed canned SD only for a while
>> (and feed Isis a high-quality canned food, such as Wellness). It's
>> very simple to feed them in separate areas once they are used to the
>> schedules. My own cats used to free feed on dry food, but I was able
>> to transition both to 12 hour feedings. I put them in separate rooms
>> while I get ready for work (about 1/2 hour). Easy to do and each gets
>> the appropriate amount of food.
>>
>> Because I know what each cat eats per day, I am able to budget the
>> food costs down to the last dollar per month. Feeding a food such as
>> Wellness is actually saving me money long term, as I have had fewer
>> vet bills and NO recurrances of urinary problems (one of my cats had
>> this when I fed dry). An added benefit is that canned can help
>> overweight cats slowly lose weight, as one of mine did. He's since
>> maintained a healthy weight on wet food for over three years.
>>
>
>

cybercat
March 24th 08, 06:40 PM
"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> "Cat Protector" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Easier said than done. Isis still will want some of the dry food. Keeping
>> them out of each other's food is also a problem. I'll be talking with the
>> vet about the food options today. It would be nice if one of the food
>> companies came out with a softer dry food so they still get the moisture.
>> I could try canned food only for a month but the vet will still want him
>> on the Science Diet SD. Is there any wet food that can be free fed?
>>
>
> Female cats don't have the same type of urinary tract problems that males
> do (their urethras are MUCH wider and don't get blocked up with struvite
> crystals nearly as often). It won't hurt Isis *at all* to be on a canned
> only diet (in fact it will be better for her) and it might help Icarus a
> huge amount, so what have you got to lose?
>

I really think the main consideration is expense. CP is a good guy, but
on a limited budget. I think in this case adding water might be ideal.

But, CP, your cat is sick, you need to bite the bullet and ditch the dry.

Cat Protector
March 24th 08, 06:45 PM
I'm actually considering having the surgery done if he gets blocked again.

"blkcatgal" > wrote in message
. ..
> You may want to seriously consider the PU surgery. Especially if Icarus
> is getting blocked continuosly. It may be expensive, but you already are
> spending lots every time he gets blocked. I have a friend whose cat was
> getting blocked and having urinary infections regularly. Her vet
> recommended the PU which they did. Over 3 years later, her cat is doing
> fine. One thing I do find amazing, though, is that she feeds this cat dry
> c/d. Has been ever since having the surgery (and even before that). And
> he is doing fine. No blockages, no urinary infections. I even tried to
> get her to switch him to canned food but she said he wouldn't eat it (I
> don't think she tried very hard to switch him).
>
> I have another friend whose cat just had the PU surgery but this was out
> of necessity....the cat was totally blocked....nearly died. He is doing
> fine now too.
>
> S.
> --
> **Visit me and my cats at http://www.island-cats.com/ **
> ---
> "Cat Protector" > wrote in message
> ...
>> That's pretty much what I've been doing.
>>
>>
>> "blkcatgal" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>I know what you mean about vets not knowing about feline nutrition. My
>>>own vet pushes dry food.
>>>
>>> I feed my cats a combo of wet and dry (probably more wet than dry) and
>>> that works out pretty well for them.
>>>
>>> S.
>>> --
>>> **Visit me and my cats at http://www.island-cats.com/ **
>>> ---
>>> "Rene S." > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> On Mar 24, 11:56 am, "Cat Protector" > wrote:
>>>> Easier said than done. Isis still will want some of the dry food.
>>>> Keeping
>>>> them out of each other's food is also a problem. I'll be talking with
>>>> the
>>>> vet about the food options today. It would be nice if one of the food
>>>> companies came out with a softer dry food so they still get the
>>>> moisture. I
>>>> could try canned food only for a month but the vet will still want him
>>>> on
>>>> the Science Diet SD. Is there any wet food that can be free fed?
>>>
>>> As Catnipped said, it will be best if you completely eliminate the dry
>>> food for both cats. Wet food can NOT be free fed due to the nature of
>>> the product--it can quickly spoil and develop bacteria if left out
>>> more than a short time. What I can't understand is why you feel the
>>> need to have food out all the time. Two canned feedings per day every
>>> 12 hours is all they need.
>>>
>>> As for talking about to the vet about food, this is not your best bet.
>>> It's been said here many times before (and I know from experience with
>>> one of my cats) that most vets know little about cat nutrition. You've
>>> followed your vet's advice thus far about the food and where has it
>>> gotten you--trips back to the vet for the same problem and Icarus
>>> having continually suffer with a lot of pain and discomfort. It's time
>>> to take action and try something else: feed canned SD only for a while
>>> (and feed Isis a high-quality canned food, such as Wellness). It's
>>> very simple to feed them in separate areas once they are used to the
>>> schedules. My own cats used to free feed on dry food, but I was able
>>> to transition both to 12 hour feedings. I put them in separate rooms
>>> while I get ready for work (about 1/2 hour). Easy to do and each gets
>>> the appropriate amount of food.
>>>
>>> Because I know what each cat eats per day, I am able to budget the
>>> food costs down to the last dollar per month. Feeding a food such as
>>> Wellness is actually saving me money long term, as I have had fewer
>>> vet bills and NO recurrances of urinary problems (one of my cats had
>>> this when I fed dry). An added benefit is that canned can help
>>> overweight cats slowly lose weight, as one of mine did. He's since
>>> maintained a healthy weight on wet food for over three years.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

cybercat
March 24th 08, 07:03 PM
"Rene S." > wrote in message
...
>And it's not working. That's why we are all saying eliminate the dry
>food! Yes, it's true that some cats can tolerate dry but cats should
>not have to tolerate their food--they should thrive on it. Dry food is
>making Icarus sick and causing him a lot of pain and costing you a lot
>of money.

Recall too that CP insisted when Icarus was young, that Special Kitty
and such really low quality foods were fine. I think this is how Icarus got
into trouble. I am not pointing fingers, just want CP to understand the role
food has played in this.

CatNipped[_2_]
March 24th 08, 07:06 PM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Cat Protector" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Easier said than done. Isis still will want some of the dry food.
>>> Keeping them out of each other's food is also a problem. I'll be talking
>>> with the vet about the food options today. It would be nice if one of
>>> the food companies came out with a softer dry food so they still get the
>>> moisture. I could try canned food only for a month but the vet will
>>> still want him on the Science Diet SD. Is there any wet food that can be
>>> free fed?
>>>
>>
>> Female cats don't have the same type of urinary tract problems that males
>> do (their urethras are MUCH wider and don't get blocked up with struvite
>> crystals nearly as often). It won't hurt Isis *at all* to be on a canned
>> only diet (in fact it will be better for her) and it might help Icarus a
>> huge amount, so what have you got to lose?
>>
>
> I really think the main consideration is expense. CP is a good guy, but
> on a limited budget. I think in this case adding water might be ideal.
>
> But, CP, your cat is sick, you need to bite the bullet and ditch the dry.
>

Yeah, tell me about it. Fancy Feast just went up to $0.50 a can here (I
used to get it from Wal-Mart at $0.45, but that was before the melamine
fiasco). My clowder eats 10 cans a day, so I'm looking at $5.00 a day now!

However, if I really had no money and had to choose I think I'd still go
with a cheap canned food and add vitamins over the same priced dry food
(seeing as dry is mostly grains anyway you'd still probably be giving them
more actual meat).

It wasn't as much of a consideration when I had only girl cats, but I can't
imagine putting my baby boys through the pain and suffering of a urinary
blockage.

Hugs,

CatNipped

mc
March 24th 08, 07:24 PM
On Mar 24, 2:06 pm, "CatNipped" > wrote:
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>


Also, a note, even the canned Hills S/D - prescription formula is not
as good as the vets seem to think.

One article by a veterinarian specifically indicated that even the
canned Hills has far too many carbs in it. The real meat in canned
food is what helps to combat the urinary crystals... not more carbs...

It really is important to feed the right ingredients as well.

mc
March 24th 08, 07:29 PM
.... and it doesn't have to be expensive to do so...

mc
March 24th 08, 07:39 PM
On Mar 24, 2:29 pm, mc > wrote:
> ... and it doesn't have to be expensive to do so...



CP...

What you really need to do is read as much as you can on the subject -
articles written by real vets... educate yourself.

THEN go have the conversation with your veterinarian. You may not get
too far if you say you read all this on a forum... You need to get the
facts to have an honest conversation with your veterinarian.

Here are some links that helped me:

This one reguards cats and diabetes, but it sure gives a lot of good
reasons to feed wet food, so it does apply:

http://www.catnutrition.org/diabetes.php

This one is also excellent:

http://www.catinfo.org/index.htm

Someone else on this forum gave me these links, and sadly, I don't
recall who it was, but I am sure glad I read these articles.

Thanks and I still hope for the best for you. I really Icarus doesn't
have to go through the surgery.

Thanks,
Melissa

CatNipped[_2_]
March 24th 08, 08:21 PM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Rene S." > wrote in message
> ...
>>And it's not working. That's why we are all saying eliminate the dry
>>food! Yes, it's true that some cats can tolerate dry but cats should
>>not have to tolerate their food--they should thrive on it. Dry food is
>>making Icarus sick and causing him a lot of pain and costing you a lot
>>of money.
>
> Recall too that CP insisted when Icarus was young, that Special Kitty
> and such really low quality foods were fine. I think this is how Icarus
> got
> into trouble. I am not pointing fingers, just want CP to understand the
> role
> food has played in this.

I remember that argument. Like you, I know it doesn't do Icarus any good to
point that out now, but hopefully somebody else with a male kitten will
learn from this experience.

When I first came to this group (eons ago) I was feeding my (then) two
female cats Science Diet dry at the insistence of my vet. I argued with
people here that since my vet recommended it, and since my two were never
sick a day in their lives, that everybody else here must be crazy.
Thankfully Phil and a few others finally got it through my thick skull that
this wasn't the best thing for my cats (which is all I and everyone here
really wants to do, I'm sure). I try to pay this favor forward whenever I
can.

Now that I have two boy kitties, I'm especially glad that I started them off
early in life eating canned. They still got a small amount of dry free fed
on for a little while (1/3 cup a day for all five cats) - just in case they
got the munchies in the middle of the night. But it wasn't hard at all to
discontinue it since the main part of their diet was always canned.

I understand that it's hard to get an adult cat to change from dry to canned
(I had to do it for Bandit when she was 8 and Demi when she was 7) - it's
hard for me to give up potato chips too even though I know they're bad for
me - carbs taste good! But, ultimately, it's the best thing you can do for
your cats.

Hugs,

CatNipped

Cat Protector
March 24th 08, 09:37 PM
Thanks. I talked with the vet and the cats will now be on an all canned
diet. I might also have to change the food schedule as well.


"Matthew" > wrote in message
...
>I am sending purrs and prayers for him CP
>
> Trust me I know about the expenses Got one diabetic/epileptic cat and one
> with hyperthyroidism
>
>
> "Cat Protector" > wrote in message
> ...
>> It looks like Icarus may be going back to the vet for another possible
>> urinary obstruction. I called the vet and left a message so hopefully
>> I'll get a call back despite it being a Sunday. I've followed all of the
>> vet's instructions and he gets canned food quite often every day and also
>> gets water. Today, he was throwing up and also has a bit of diarrhea. He
>> was just at the vet on Wednesday to have a urine sample done and the vet
>> was able to get good stream of urine from him. This is pretty unreal
>> because it's costing quite a lot to have him in and out of the vet. The
>> worst part is that Icarus's attitude at the vet is pretty unruly.
>>
>> I put Icarus in the bathroom with his own litterbox. He's also had his
>> medication every single day so I don't know how he could have had all
>> this happen again. He's been kept hydrated. It's getting to be pretty
>> expensive.
>>
>
>

Cat Protector
March 24th 08, 09:43 PM
I think people need to realize that I had 3 cats at the time and 2 of them
never had any diet issues. I discussed with the vet the food options so now
it's been decided that both Isis and Icarus will have to eat only canned
food but I did ask about dry foods that are softer and have moisture as
well. I got to visit Icarus today and he isn't happy about being there. I
brought a teaser to hang on the cage to hopefully keep him occupied instead
of biting the vet.


"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> I remember that argument. Like you, I know it doesn't do Icarus any good
> to point that out now, but hopefully somebody else with a male kitten will
> learn from this experience.
>
> When I first came to this group (eons ago) I was feeding my (then) two
> female cats Science Diet dry at the insistence of my vet. I argued with
> people here that since my vet recommended it, and since my two were never
> sick a day in their lives, that everybody else here must be crazy.
> Thankfully Phil and a few others finally got it through my thick skull
> that this wasn't the best thing for my cats (which is all I and everyone
> here really wants to do, I'm sure). I try to pay this favor forward
> whenever I can.
>
> Now that I have two boy kitties, I'm especially glad that I started them
> off early in life eating canned. They still got a small amount of dry
> free fed on for a little while (1/3 cup a day for all five cats) - just in
> case they got the munchies in the middle of the night. But it wasn't hard
> at all to discontinue it since the main part of their diet was always
> canned.
>
> I understand that it's hard to get an adult cat to change from dry to
> canned (I had to do it for Bandit when she was 8 and Demi when she was
> 7) - it's hard for me to give up potato chips too even though I know
> they're bad for me - carbs taste good! But, ultimately, it's the best
> thing you can do for your cats.
>
> Hugs,
>
> CatNipped
>

cshenk
March 24th 08, 11:24 PM
"mc" wrote

> This one is also excellent:
>
> http://www.catinfo.org/index.htm
>

I'm looking at this one right now. Laugh if you will but it was driving me
buggy so many use 'C/D' and dont mean 'canned' seems in context.

Oh, one piece of misinformation but it is right as posted as they stick
strictly to *cats*. (Breed type foods). This 'can' be somewhat important
with dogs, but is mostly enountered more with choking hazards and various
sized 'dry or wet chunks'. It's usually not critical even then but can be
with the toy versions if they are super fast eaters.

Cat Protector
March 25th 08, 02:28 AM
It was good to visit Icarus today but he wasn't happy. He has the cone
around his neck and is still growling and hissing every time someone walks
past him. I called the vet later and he seems to be doing ok although is
still upset. He and Isis will be on an all canned diet. He'll most likely be
on Science Diet SD while Isis will get Nutro canned. I'm thinking I might
just feed them canned 3 times a day so they get what they need but I hope
they don't get hungry all the time.

Isis misses her brother but is also enjoying the fact it's just me and her
right now. Icarus and she tend to be typical siblings and sometimes he tries
to antagonize her. Right now she's resting comfortably on one of the Purr
Pads.

mc
March 25th 08, 03:22 AM
On Mar 24, 9:28 pm, "Cat Protector" > wrote:
> It was good to visit Icarus today but he wasn't happy. He has the cone



Glad to hear it... Wish you all the luck...

BTW --- Regarding my earlier post with the links... go ahead and read
them, they are very informational...

Also, just so know... I don't think anyone here thinks you don't know
what you are doing with your kitties. I for one know you love them and
I am sure you spoil them rotten (LOL)... But a lot of us trusted our
vets to know what was right nutritionally, so please don't feel like
anyone is jumping on you here.

<< This one regards cats and diabetes, but it sure gives a lot of good
reasons to feed wet food, so it does apply:

<< http://www.catnutrition.org/diabetes.php

<< This one is also excellent:

<< http://www.catinfo.org/index.htm


And btw... I went back to some of my original posts and it was Rene S.
that originally sent those onto me in another thread...

I found them to be most informative.

Thanks,
Melissa

mariib via CatKB.com
March 25th 08, 05:01 AM
Cat Protector wrote:
>It was good to visit Icarus today but he wasn't happy. He has the cone
>around his neck and is still growling and hissing every time someone walks
>past him. I called the vet later and he seems to be doing ok although is
>still upset. He and Isis will be on an all canned diet. He'll most likely be
>on Science Diet SD while Isis will get Nutro canned. I'm thinking I might
>just feed them canned 3 times a day so they get what they need but I hope
>they don't get hungry all the time.
>

Cats will do very well being fed twice a day on an all-canned diet with no
free-feeding at all. My past & present cats have been on a twice/day schedule
since 1987 & thrived. At that time we had Tigra, a voracious eater who ate
non-stop on the dry food that was then always available. When we realized her
belly was touching the ground, the free-feeding for all cats stopped, she was
put on a diet, the cats were switched to canned only & meals were given at
8am & 6pm. Within a year her weight stabilized at about 12 lbs & she lived
till she was almost 20 in late 2005. My cats do make a racket when their
internal clocks tell them it's breakfast or dinner time, but they are very
healthy & frisky!
M.
Here's Tigra when she was 6 yrs old in 1992
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2097158320050028271vnuXRw

here's pictures of my present babies taken last year:
this is Little Devil
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2807284770050028271sBAeGe
& here's Coco http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2920684120050028271TQdfzT

--
Message posted via http://www.catkb.com

Cat Protector
March 25th 08, 05:14 AM
It's going to be rough though. Isis is used to free feeding on the dry
despite getting canned food twice a day.

"mariib via CatKB.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Cats will do very well being fed twice a day on an all-canned diet with no
> free-feeding at all. My past & present cats have been on a twice/day
> schedule
> since 1987 & thrived. At that time we had Tigra, a voracious eater who ate
> non-stop on the dry food that was then always available. When we realized
> her
> belly was touching the ground, the free-feeding for all cats stopped, she
> was
> put on a diet, the cats were switched to canned only & meals were given at
> 8am & 6pm. Within a year her weight stabilized at about 12 lbs & she lived
> till she was almost 20 in late 2005. My cats do make a racket when their
> internal clocks tell them it's breakfast or dinner time, but they are very
> healthy & frisky!
> M.
> Here's Tigra when she was 6 yrs old in 1992
> http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2097158320050028271vnuXRw
>
> here's pictures of my present babies taken last year:
> this is Little Devil
> http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2807284770050028271sBAeGe
> & here's Coco http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2920684120050028271TQdfzT
>
> --
> Message posted via http://www.catkb.com
>

Cat Protector
March 25th 08, 05:15 AM
Thanks.

"mc" > wrote in message
...
> Glad to hear it... Wish you all the luck...
>
> BTW --- Regarding my earlier post with the links... go ahead and read
> them, they are very informational...
>
> Also, just so know... I don't think anyone here thinks you don't know
> what you are doing with your kitties. I for one know you love them and
> I am sure you spoil them rotten (LOL)... But a lot of us trusted our
> vets to know what was right nutritionally, so please don't feel like
> anyone is jumping on you here.
>
> << This one regards cats and diabetes, but it sure gives a lot of good
> reasons to feed wet food, so it does apply:
>
> << http://www.catnutrition.org/diabetes.php
>
> << This one is also excellent:
>
> << http://www.catinfo.org/index.htm
>
>
> And btw... I went back to some of my original posts and it was Rene S.
> that originally sent those onto me in another thread...
>
> I found them to be most informative.
>
> Thanks,
> Melissa
>

Rene S.
March 25th 08, 12:56 PM
On Mar 24, 9:28*pm, "Cat Protector" > wrote:
> It was good to visit Icarus today but he wasn't happy. He has the cone
> around his neck and is still growling and hissing every time someone walks
> past him. I called the vet later and he seems to be doing ok although is
> still upset. He and Isis will be on an all canned diet. He'll most likely be
> on Science Diet SD while Isis will get Nutro canned. I'm thinking I might
> just feed them canned 3 times a day so they get what they need but I hope
> they don't get hungry all the time.

You made a smart decision to switch both to all canned. I think you
will find that, once they are used to the schedule, that they will be
satisfied and won't be begging.

CatNipped[_2_]
March 25th 08, 01:06 PM
"Cat Protector" > wrote in message
...
> It was good to visit Icarus today but he wasn't happy. He has the cone
> around his neck and is still growling and hissing every time someone walks
> past him. I called the vet later and he seems to be doing ok although is
> still upset. He and Isis will be on an all canned diet. He'll most likely
> be on Science Diet SD while Isis will get Nutro canned. I'm thinking I
> might just feed them canned 3 times a day so they get what they need but I
> hope they don't get hungry all the time.

Don't worry, they won't be hungry all the time. Cats in the wild don't find
something to eat three times a day - in fact they usually only hunt at dawn
and dusk (they're crepuscular). All predators are able to skip the
occasional mean since hunting remains a hit and miss occupation (I think the
big cats have an average of 60% misses, 40% kills).

>
> Isis misses her brother but is also enjoying the fact it's just me and her
> right now. Icarus and she tend to be typical siblings and sometimes he
> tries to antagonize her. Right now she's resting comfortably on one of the
> Purr Pads.
>

Purrs are continuing for Icarus to feel better and come home soon.

Hugs,

CatNipped

CatNipped[_2_]
March 25th 08, 01:11 PM
"Cat Protector" > wrote in message
...
>I think people need to realize that I had 3 cats at the time and 2 of them
>never had any diet issues. I discussed with the vet the food options so now
>it's been decided that both Isis and Icarus will have to eat only canned
>food but I did ask about dry foods that are softer and have moisture as
>well. I got to visit Icarus today and he isn't happy about being there. I
>brought a teaser to hang on the cage to hopefully keep him occupied instead
>of biting the vet.

I never for a moment thought you were doing anything less than you thought
was best for your cats - I know you love them. And as I said, I thought the
same way as you did about dry on the advice of my vet. The problem was, my
vet was *wrong*! As has been noted here time and again, most vets get
whatever knowledge they have of nutrition from pet food salesmen!

I'm just trying to let others know that you can't always rely on what your
vet says (same could be said of doctors - I always research medications he
prescribes now after I had some pretty hair-raising experiences with things
I took just because he told me to).

Hugs,

CatNipped


>
>
> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I remember that argument. Like you, I know it doesn't do Icarus any good
>> to point that out now, but hopefully somebody else with a male kitten
>> will learn from this experience.
>>
>> When I first came to this group (eons ago) I was feeding my (then) two
>> female cats Science Diet dry at the insistence of my vet. I argued with
>> people here that since my vet recommended it, and since my two were never
>> sick a day in their lives, that everybody else here must be crazy.
>> Thankfully Phil and a few others finally got it through my thick skull
>> that this wasn't the best thing for my cats (which is all I and everyone
>> here really wants to do, I'm sure). I try to pay this favor forward
>> whenever I can.
>>
>> Now that I have two boy kitties, I'm especially glad that I started them
>> off early in life eating canned. They still got a small amount of dry
>> free fed on for a little while (1/3 cup a day for all five cats) - just
>> in case they got the munchies in the middle of the night. But it wasn't
>> hard at all to discontinue it since the main part of their diet was
>> always canned.
>>
>> I understand that it's hard to get an adult cat to change from dry to
>> canned (I had to do it for Bandit when she was 8 and Demi when she was
>> 7) - it's hard for me to give up potato chips too even though I know
>> they're bad for me - carbs taste good! But, ultimately, it's the best
>> thing you can do for your cats.
>>
>> Hugs,
>>
>> CatNipped
>>
>
>

Cat Protector
March 25th 08, 02:32 PM
The and I had discussed it and felt it was necessary. He did show me how to
administer sub-q fluids in case I want to go that route but I'm not sure if
Icarus would hold still long enough. I'm pretty short on money as well so
I've been praying for a miracle.


"Rene S." > wrote in message
...
On Mar 24, 9:28 pm, "Cat Protector" > wrote:
> It was good to visit Icarus today but he wasn't happy. He has the cone
> around his neck and is still growling and hissing every time someone walks
> past him. I called the vet later and he seems to be doing ok although is
> still upset. He and Isis will be on an all canned diet. He'll most likely
> be
> on Science Diet SD while Isis will get Nutro canned. I'm thinking I might
> just feed them canned 3 times a day so they get what they need but I hope
> they don't get hungry all the time.

You made a smart decision to switch both to all canned. I think you
will find that, once they are used to the schedule, that they will be
satisfied and won't be begging.

Cat Protector
March 25th 08, 02:35 PM
Thanks. I just worry about them because they're used to having food
available all the time. Maybe Isis will lose a little weight this way.

"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> Don't worry, they won't be hungry all the time. Cats in the wild don't
> find something to eat three times a day - in fact they usually only hunt
> at dawn and dusk (they're crepuscular). All predators are able to skip
> the occasional mean since hunting remains a hit and miss occupation (I
> think the big cats have an average of 60% misses, 40% kills).
>
>>
>> Isis misses her brother but is also enjoying the fact it's just me and
>> her right now. Icarus and she tend to be typical siblings and sometimes
>> he tries to antagonize her. Right now she's resting comfortably on one of
>> the Purr Pads.
>>
>
> Purrs are continuing for Icarus to feel better and come home soon.
>
> Hugs,
>
> CatNipped
>

cybercat
March 25th 08, 03:09 PM
"Rene S." > wrote

>> He and Isis will be on an all canned diet.

>You made a smart decision to switch both to all canned. I think you
>will find that, once they are used to the schedule, that they will be
>satisfied and won't be begging.

It's true. Kudos to CP! You're a great cat dad. Hope Icky is better soon.
;)

cybercat
March 25th 08, 03:11 PM
"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> "Cat Protector" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I think people need to realize that I had 3 cats at the time and 2 of them
>>never had any diet issues. I discussed with the vet the food options so
>>now it's been decided that both Isis and Icarus will have to eat only
>>canned food but I did ask about dry foods that are softer and have
>>moisture as well. I got to visit Icarus today and he isn't happy about
>>being there. I brought a teaser to hang on the cage to hopefully keep him
>>occupied instead of biting the vet.
>
> I never for a moment thought you were doing anything less than you thought
> was best for your cats - I know you love them.

I did not mean to imply anything negative about CP either. Just thought it
important
to point out the possible connection between UT problems and low quality
food.

We all have budgets, and often our income is not as much in our control as
we
would like.

No offense meant, CP.

Cat Protector
March 25th 08, 04:18 PM
Actually, both cats were on a high quality foods. I've had them on Nutro and
also Blue Buffalo Spa Select. However, it gets expensive with the higher
quality foods. The vet chose to put Icarus on Science Diet SD canned because
he says they've had success. I'm not a fan of this but I also don't want
Icarus to have to keep going back to the hospital. BTW, Four Peaks Animal
Clinic is excellent and they're taking good care of Icarus. If anyone wants
to check up on him we'll be happy to give out the number.


"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Cat Protector" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>I think people need to realize that I had 3 cats at the time and 2 of
>>>them never had any diet issues. I discussed with the vet the food options
>>>so now it's been decided that both Isis and Icarus will have to eat only
>>>canned food but I did ask about dry foods that are softer and have
>>>moisture as well. I got to visit Icarus today and he isn't happy about
>>>being there. I brought a teaser to hang on the cage to hopefully keep him
>>>occupied instead of biting the vet.
>>
>> I never for a moment thought you were doing anything less than you
>> thought was best for your cats - I know you love them.
>
> I did not mean to imply anything negative about CP either. Just thought it
> important
> to point out the possible connection between UT problems and low quality
> food.
>
> We all have budgets, and often our income is not as much in our control as
> we
> would like.
>
> No offense meant, CP.
>

Rene S.
March 25th 08, 05:58 PM
Re: Isis losing weight. When I made the switch from dry to canned,
Tucker lost weight for the first time in his life. There's plenty of
information on his web site: http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/

The main thing to do is NOT feed them right when you get up in the
morning. Get up, eat breakfast or get some coffee/read the newspaper,
and feed them after that. That way, they won't associate you getting
up with food, and try to wake you up earlier. The same thing in the
evening: when you get home, don't feed them right away. Wait until
about 12 hours later. I feed my cats at 6 a.m. and 6 p.m. daily. If
I'm off by an hour or so, that's still ok and it won't harm them.
Don't worry about feeding them three times per day. They get so much
more out of the canned food that they will be satisfied and not
hungry.

A bonus is that, because you are feeding them only twice per day, you
can tell instantly if one of them is not feeling well and goes off
their food. With dry food just sitting out, you don't know who has
eaten what.

cshenk
March 25th 08, 07:22 PM
"mc" wrote


> Also, just so know... I don't think anyone here thinks you don't know
> what you are doing with your kitties. I for one know you love them and
> I am sure you spoil them rotten (LOL)... But a lot of us trusted our
> vets to know what was right nutritionally, so please don't feel like
> anyone is jumping on you here.

Dont worry, even this old cat keeper learned something new from those sites.

mc
March 25th 08, 07:56 PM
<<Re: Isis losing weight. When I made the switch from dry to canned,
<<Tucker lost weight for the first time in his life. There's plenty of
<<information on his web site: http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/

<<The main thing to do is NOT feed them right when you get up in the
<<morning. Get up, eat breakfast or get some coffee/read the
newspaper,


Rene,

This is why I love to read these posts... That is really excellent
advice.

Tucker is just a darling cat! What a sweetie!!!
I digress... LOL

Cat Protector
March 25th 08, 09:26 PM
I tried to visit Icarus today but they were pretty busy apparently. They
said they gave him his pills and food. He's still screaming at them though
so I'm sure they'll be glad when he's ready to go home.

Sheelagh>\o\
March 26th 08, 05:31 PM
On Mar 24, 12:20*am, "Cat Protector" > wrote:
> It looks like Icarus may be going back to the vet for another possible
> urinary obstruction. I called the vet and left a message so hopefully I'll
> get a call back despite it being a Sunday. I've followed all of the vet's
> instructions and he gets canned food quite often every day and also gets
> water. Today, he was throwing up and also has a bit of diarrhea. He was just
> at the vet on Wednesday to have a urine sample done and the vet was able to
> get good stream of urine from him. This is pretty unreal because it's
> costing quite a lot to have him in and out of the vet. The worst part is
> that Icarus's attitude at the vet is pretty unruly.
>
> I put Icarus in the bathroom with his own litterbox. He's also had his
> medication every single day so I don't know how he could have had all this
> happen again. He's been kept hydrated. It's getting to be pretty expensive..


I haven't posted in a while- but noticed this one today & just wanted
you to know that we are sending Purrs & Best wishes from this side of
the pond too,
Regards,
Sheelagh >"o"<

cybercat
March 26th 08, 05:48 PM
"Sheelagh>"o"<" > wrote :


>I haven't posted in a while- but noticed this one today & just wanted
>you to know that we are sending Purrs & Best wishes from this side of
>the pond too,

Hi Sheelagh, how are you? How nice to see you in the group!

Sheelagh>\o\
March 26th 08, 08:31 PM
On Mar 26, 5:48*pm, "cybercat" > wrote:
> "Sheelagh>"o"<" > wrote :
>
> >I haven't posted in a while- but noticed this one today & just wanted
> >you to know that we are sending Purrs & Best wishes from this side of
> >the pond too,
>
> Hi Sheelagh, how are you? How nice to see you in the group!

Much better thank you. I have had a little spell in hospital recently,
& with no lap top, it made it a little difficult to post. I was
diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, & had to stay in for diagnosis, then
treatment. Things are looking up now, & I have a lot to be grateful
for. I am currently in remission, & praying that it stays that way for
the next five years.

Every day is a gift that is precious. I no longer take life for
granted. It was an uphill struggle, but we worked around it & it is
nice to be @ home again with my human family & also my feline family.
There were days that I could have cried for a cuddle from my cat's. In
actual fact, they allowed me home a couple of days early because I was
pining for them all so much!

You have no idea how far a stroke goes to making you feel better :o)
Nice to speak to you too. I have missed reading the group recently.

Warm Regards,
Sheelagh >"o"<

cybercat
March 26th 08, 10:45 PM
"Sheelagh>"o"<" > wrote
>Much better thank you. I have had a little spell in hospital recently,
>& with no lap top, it made it a little difficult to post. I was
>diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, & had to stay in for diagnosis, then
>treatment. Things are looking up now, & I have a lot to be grateful
>for. I am currently in remission, & praying that it stays that way for
>the next five years.

Sheelagh, I am so glad you are in remission, how frightening this
must be for you.


>Every day is a gift that is precious. I no longer take life for
>granted. It was an uphill struggle, but we worked around it & it is
>nice to be @ home again with my human family & also my feline family.
>There were days that I could have cried for a cuddle from my cat's. In
>actual fact, they allowed me home a couple of days early because I was
>pining for them all so much!


I can imagine. I don't know what I would do. Welcome home. I
will keep you in my prayers, every day.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Sheelagh>\o\
March 26th 08, 11:50 PM
On Mar 26, 10:45*pm, "cybercat" > wrote:
> "Sheelagh>"o"<" > wrote
>
> >Much better thank you. I have had a little spell in hospital recently,
> >& with no lap top, it made it a little difficult to post. I was
> >diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, & had to stay in for diagnosis, then
> >treatment. Things are looking up now, & I have a lot to be grateful
> >for. I am currently in remission, & praying that it stays that way for
> >the next five years.
>
> Sheelagh, I am so glad you are in remission, how frightening this
> must be for you.
>
> >Every day is a gift that is precious. I no longer take life for
> >granted. It was an uphill struggle, but we worked around it & it is
> >nice to be @ home again with my human family & also my feline family.
> >There were days that I could have cried for a cuddle from my cat's. In
> >actual fact, they allowed me home a couple of days early because I was
> >pining for them all so much!
>
> I can imagine. I don't know what I would do. Welcome home. I
> will keep you in my prayers, every day.
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

Thankyou, far more than words can express.
I do feel @ home once more.
Warm Regards,
Sheelagh >"o"<

Cat Protector
March 27th 08, 03:01 AM
Thanks. It's appreciated.

"Sheelagh>"o"<" > wrote in message
...
On Mar 24, 12:20 am, "Cat Protector" > wrote:
> It looks like Icarus may be going back to the vet for another possible
> urinary obstruction. I called the vet and left a message so hopefully I'll
> get a call back despite it being a Sunday. I've followed all of the vet's
> instructions and he gets canned food quite often every day and also gets
> water. Today, he was throwing up and also has a bit of diarrhea. He was
> just
> at the vet on Wednesday to have a urine sample done and the vet was able
> to
> get good stream of urine from him. This is pretty unreal because it's
> costing quite a lot to have him in and out of the vet. The worst part is
> that Icarus's attitude at the vet is pretty unruly.
>
> I put Icarus in the bathroom with his own litterbox. He's also had his
> medication every single day so I don't know how he could have had all this
> happen again. He's been kept hydrated. It's getting to be pretty
> expensive.


I haven't posted in a while- but noticed this one today & just wanted
you to know that we are sending Purrs & Best wishes from this side of
the pond too,
Regards,
Sheelagh >"o"<

22brix
March 27th 08, 03:10 AM
"Sheelagh>"o"<" > wrote in message
...
On Mar 26, 5:48 pm, "cybercat" > wrote:
> "Sheelagh>"o"<" > wrote :
>
> >I haven't posted in a while- but noticed this one today & just wanted
> >you to know that we are sending Purrs & Best wishes from this side of
> >the pond too,
>
> Hi Sheelagh, how are you? How nice to see you in the group!

Much better thank you. I have had a little spell in hospital recently,
& with no lap top, it made it a little difficult to post. I was
diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, & had to stay in for diagnosis, then
treatment. Things are looking up now, & I have a lot to be grateful
for. I am currently in remission, & praying that it stays that way for
the next five years.

Every day is a gift that is precious. I no longer take life for
granted. It was an uphill struggle, but we worked around it & it is
nice to be @ home again with my human family & also my feline family.
There were days that I could have cried for a cuddle from my cat's. In
actual fact, they allowed me home a couple of days early because I was
pining for them all so much!

You have no idea how far a stroke goes to making you feel better :o)
Nice to speak to you too. I have missed reading the group recently.

Warm Regards,
Sheelagh >"o"<

Sheelagh,

I am glad to see you posting again. I have missed you!

I am so sorry you've been ill--what an awful, scary, difficult time you have
had. Here's hoping your remission becomes permanent and that you can heal
at home, surrounded by the ones you love (so much better than being in
hospital!)

You are in my thoughts and prayers,

Bonnie

Cat Protector
March 27th 08, 03:12 AM
I hope you get better.


"Sheelagh>"o"<" > wrote in message
.
Much better thank you. I have had a little spell in hospital recently,
& with no lap top, it made it a little difficult to post. I was
diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, & had to stay in for diagnosis, then
treatment. Things are looking up now, & I have a lot to be grateful
for. I am currently in remission, & praying that it stays that way for
the next five years.

Every day is a gift that is precious. I no longer take life for
granted. It was an uphill struggle, but we worked around it & it is
nice to be @ home again with my human family & also my feline family.
There were days that I could have cried for a cuddle from my cat's. In
actual fact, they allowed me home a couple of days early because I was
pining for them all so much!

You have no idea how far a stroke goes to making you feel better :o)
Nice to speak to you too. I have missed reading the group recently.

Warm Regards,
Sheelagh >"o"<

mariib via CatKB.com
March 27th 08, 03:37 AM
Sheelagh>"o > wrote :
>>
>[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>
>> Hi Sheelagh, how are you? How nice to see you in the group!
>
>Much better thank you. I have had a little spell in hospital recently,
>& with no lap top, it made it a little difficult to post. I was
>diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, & had to stay in for diagnosis, then
>treatment. Things are looking up now, & I have a lot to be grateful
>for. I am currently in remission, & praying that it stays that way for
>the next five years.
>
>Every day is a gift that is precious. I no longer take life for
>granted. It was an uphill struggle, but we worked around it & it is
>nice to be @ home again with my human family & also my feline family.
>There were days that I could have cried for a cuddle from my cat's. In
>actual fact, they allowed me home a couple of days early because I was
>pining for them all so much!
>
>You have no idea how far a stroke goes to making you feel better :o)
>Nice to speak to you too. I have missed reading the group recently.
>
>Warm Regards,
>Sheelagh >"o"<

Glad to see you posting again but am sorry to hear the reason for your
absence. I am always reading the group & following the stories even though I
don't write too often myself & missed hearing about your kitties. You & your
family - both 2 & 4 legged - have my best wishes for your continued recovery.
Give some special cuddles & kisses to all your cats & I hope they are
bringing you comfort & joy.
M.

--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200803/1

CatNipped[_2_]
March 27th 08, 01:24 PM
"Sheelagh>"o"<" > wrote in message
...
On Mar 26, 5:48 pm, "cybercat" > wrote:
> "Sheelagh>"o"<" > wrote :
>
> >I haven't posted in a while- but noticed this one today & just wanted
> >you to know that we are sending Purrs & Best wishes from this side of
> >the pond too,
>
> Hi Sheelagh, how are you? How nice to see you in the group!

Much better thank you. I have had a little spell in hospital recently,
& with no lap top, it made it a little difficult to post. I was
diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, & had to stay in for diagnosis, then
treatment. Things are looking up now, & I have a lot to be grateful
for. I am currently in remission, & praying that it stays that way for
the next five years.

Every day is a gift that is precious. I no longer take life for
granted. It was an uphill struggle, but we worked around it & it is
nice to be @ home again with my human family & also my feline family.
There were days that I could have cried for a cuddle from my cat's. In
actual fact, they allowed me home a couple of days early because I was
pining for them all so much!

You have no idea how far a stroke goes to making you feel better :o)
Nice to speak to you too. I have missed reading the group recently.

Warm Regards,
Sheelagh >"o"<

=================================================

Purrs and purr-ayers are heading your way - I hope you make a complete
recovery and go on to live many, many happy years.

Hugs,

CatNipped

Sheelagh>\o\
March 27th 08, 05:08 PM
On Mar 27, 12:47*am, "cindys" > wrote:
> "Sheelagh>"o"<" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Mar 26, 5:48 pm, "cybercat" > wrote:
>
> > "Sheelagh>"o"<" > wrote :
>
> > >I haven't posted in a while- but noticed this one today & just wanted
> > >you to know that we are sending Purrs & Best wishes from this side of
> > >the pond too,
>
> > Hi Sheelagh, how are you? How nice to see you in the group!
>
> Much better thank you. I have had a little spell in hospital recently,
> & with no lap top, it made it a little difficult to post. I was
> diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, & had to stay in for diagnosis, then
> treatment. Things are looking up now, & I have a lot to be grateful
> for. I am currently in remission, & praying that it stays that way for
> the next five years.
>
> -------
> I had been wondering about what happened to you. I'm so glad you're back.
> Many many prayers and purrs coming your way for your complete recovery.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.

Many thanks to everyone for continued thoughts, Purrs & best wishes.
We appreciate them all very much indeed. You have no idea how pleased
I am just to be @ home with cats drapped all over me! There should be
a mandatory rule that says's if your ill, then your cat's should be
allowed in to visit you for therapeutic reason's on a daily basis,
Lol. I say LOL, but I truly do believe a scritch, leg-rubs, & Purrs go
a hell of a long way to making you feel a lot calmer & much happier,
in hospital. It's wonderful to be able to sit on my own favourite
armchair, with a nice cup of tea surrounded by my human & moggy
family. ( the trick is not to fall asleep, because the moment you
inspect the inside of your eye-lids, one of the feline family pounces
on the warm tea!!) Tut-tut,
Sheelagh >"o"<