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View Full Version : Normal for a cat to vomit a tapeworm vs the worm coming out in thestool?


Cat Guy
April 12th 08, 03:27 PM
We recently gave one of our cats a deworming pill (milbemax) and later
found a worm (sorta looked like a tan-colored rubber band) in a pile
of vomit.

I thought that tape worms reside or attach to the intestinal wall (and
not the stomach wall) and therefore when the worm leaves the cat it's
by way of the stool.

So is it normal, or unusual, for the worm to be vomited out?

Cat Guy
April 12th 08, 05:27 PM
AMUN wrote:

> > I thought that tape worms reside or attach to the intestinal
> > wall (and not the stomach wall) and therefore when the worm
> > leaves the cat it's by way of the stool.
> >
> > So is it normal, or unusual, for the worm to be vomited out?

> Not 100% normal. but I've heard of that happening even without
> deworming. Usually the infestation is pretty bad by the time
> it gets to the point it vomits them up though
>
> Although are you sure it wasn't a rubber band ?
> Cats can try to eat some pretty strange things

The (male) cat in question was caught in a trap around mid-January on
our front porch and soon after was taken to a vet for neutering,
vaccination and Revolution treatment. I'm pretty sure he was given a
drontal pill during recovery by the vet.

He is kept in a spare room with a minimal amount of furnature. Unlike
other cats we've caught, fixed, and adopted out, this guy has remained
very wild and resists all attempts to socialize with us, even after 11
weeks. I can barely reach out and touch his head without him opening
his eyes and his mouth wide and hissing as he backs into a corner. He
has been quite content to simply sleep in a corner under a table most
of the time. Not a sound from him - unlike the other cats we've
caught (they usually cry at night, I think as they look out the
window).

About a month ago we noticed that there were reddish streaks on the
canvas drop-cover we have on the floor of his room. A new streak
seemed to be appearing each day for about a week or two. I'm thinking
they were bum-scoots. A few days ago he threw up a lot of food, and
that's when I noticed dried tape-worm segments on the blanket where he
sleeps.

So I placed a milbemax pill (un-crushed) in with his food and within
12 hours he vomitted up some food and the worm. It was definately a
worm and not a rubber band.

And the very next night (last night) he started crying. Hopefully his
quiteness and wildness was being caused by GI discomfort that has now
passed and perhaps he might just start being more friendly. We
were/are considering letting him go in a week or two because we
considered him unadoptable.

I'm wondering if I should give him another milbemax in a week just to
make sure we've gotten rid of all the worms.

Comments? Questions?

Baldoni[_8_]
April 12th 08, 06:10 PM
Cat Guy formulated on Saturday :
> We recently gave one of our cats a deworming pill (milbemax) and later
> found a worm (sorta looked like a tan-colored rubber band) in a pile
> of vomit.
>
> I thought that tape worms reside or attach to the intestinal wall (and
> not the stomach wall) and therefore when the worm leaves the cat it's
> by way of the stool.
>
> So is it normal, or unusual, for the worm to be vomited out?

I had a feral cat given me by mistake a few years ago. He did exactly
the same thing.

This cat had an appetite like a horse and would eat anything put in
front of him. I had to stop a neighbor from feeding him as he was
eating curry, chicken supreme and all manner of things humans eat. He
made a hell of a noise when he wanted food in the morning.

--
Count Baldoni

Rhonda[_3_]
April 13th 08, 06:30 AM
Cat Guy wrote:

> So I placed a milbemax pill (un-crushed) in with his food and within
> 12 hours he vomitted up some food and the worm. It was definately a
> worm and not a rubber band.
>
> And the very next night (last night) he started crying. Hopefully his
> quiteness and wildness was being caused by GI discomfort that has now
> passed and perhaps he might just start being more friendly. We
> were/are considering letting him go in a week or two because we
> considered him unadoptable.
>
> I'm wondering if I should give him another milbemax in a week just to
> make sure we've gotten rid of all the worms.
>
> Comments? Questions?

If the worm was longish and thin, it sounds like a roundworm. From what
I've read on websites, a roundworm infestation can get so bad that the
worms are also in the stomach.

We trapped some kittens with roundworms and wormed them -- theirs did
come out the other end. They looked like spaghetti that was a few inches
long.

As far as deciding when to reworm or your cat's symptoms, I would really
urge you to talk to a vet. Since your cat is also in some distress, I
would want a professional medical opinion as soon as possible.

Good luck, and I hope he gets to stay inside so he doesn't end up in
this state again!

Take care,

Rhonda

Cat Guy
April 13th 08, 06:40 PM
Is there a reason why you're removing some of the groups I'm
cross-posting to?

AMUN wrote:

> It's also very possible the cat never ate the pill, but spit it
> out somewhere else.

I was watching him eat via a closed-circuit web-cam that I set up in
his room, and when he was done I had a closer look and found no
remnants of the pill on the dish or anywhere nearby.

> As usually the pills simply dissolve the worms so you won't ever
> even see part of them in the stools.

I thought that the pills kill the worm or impair it's ability to
continue to clamp onto the GI tract, and hence free it up and allow it
to either exit with the stool, or in this case to be vomited up.

> Only sure way is to grab the cat and shove the pill in it's mouth,
> then hold it's mouth closed until it swallows it

Like I said, I was watching it eat, it did not spit anything out while
eating, and there was no pill remnants to be found.

> As you say the beast got dewormed when you first got it, it's
> strange the worms re-appeared when the cat was kept indoors.
> As tapeworms are almost exclusively caused by eating infected
> fleas.

Yes. I told the vet to give him a worm pill while he was recovering
from being neutered, and Drontil is listed on his health card, and so
is a Revolution treatment.

> Again it may have really been badly infested, but even the worst
> I ever heard of got knocked out after a second dose of tapeworm
> pills. Clean up, as it sounds like you may have inherited at
> least a small flea infestation with the cat, and they may be
> re-infecting it.

After he vomited the worm, we cleaned the room (laundered the canvas
floor covering, wiped down all surfaces, etc) and put him back in the
room. I'll have to give it a few days to see if he's approchable
enough to give him another Revolution treatment (assuming the vet did
infact give him an initial treatment 11 weeks ago).

Cat Guy
April 13th 08, 07:03 PM
Rhonda wrote:

> If the worm was longish and thin, it sounds like a roundworm.

The worm looked like this:

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images14/TapewormImg_1395.jpg

but I didn't think it was as white in color as in that picture. It
was mostly flat, and segmented, and tapered at one end.

Roundworms (if I'm not mistaken) are round (not flat) and smooth.

> I've read on websites, a roundworm infestation can get so bad
> that the worms are also in the stomach.

Well, I think this was a tapeworm. Do roundworms shed
rice-grain-sized segments out the annus? Remember, I did see 4 or 5
such dried segments in his bedding.

cshenk
April 13th 08, 07:05 PM
"Cat Guy" > wrote in message ...
> Is there a reason why you're removing some of the groups I'm
> cross-posting to?

Yes, it's considered bad to crosspost like that. Normally a spammer action.
Granted you were looking for a 'wider audience' but many spam filters will
delete your messages unseen if there is more than one group in there.

Cat Guy
April 13th 08, 07:38 PM
cshenk wrote:

> "Cat Guy" > wrote:
> > Is there a reason why you're removing some of the groups I'm
> > cross-posting to?
>
> Yes, it's considered bad to crosspost like that.

Wrong.

I've been posting to usenet since 1988.

I know what usenet is, and how it should be used.

It IS NOT "bad" to crosspost when the groups being posted to have
something in common with the subject matter being discussed.

It's even more correct to crosspost when the groups in question
discuss essentially THE SAME subject matter.

There is no difference in the content, charter or subject material of
these groups:

alt.pets.cats
alt.cats
rec.pets.cats.health+behav

But the fact that some people may read rec.pets.cats.health+behav but
not alt.pets.cats means that if I want my post to reach a wide
audience, I have no choice but to cross-post the those groups BECAUSE
THEY EXIST. There are other cat-related usenet groups, but I did not
cross-post to those because they have relatively low traffic.

Cross-posting is bad only when the content of a post does not pertain
to what is normally discussed in the group being cross-posted to.

For example, you could correctly criticize me if I cross-posted my
original message to:

rec.pets.cats.health+behav
alt.home.repair
comp.sys.intel

But that is not what I did.

Usenet today has thousands of newsgroups. It was anticipated that
some discussions could span the interests of several groups
simultaneously, hence the cross-posting mechanism was an early and
itegral part of the usenet messaging system. And cross-posting is
efficient. It allows a thread to grow and allows everyone who reads
it to participate so long as the cross-posting is maintained.

The issue in this case is not that I cross-posted a message regarding
cat health and behavior to 3 different cat-centric newsgroups.

The issue is - why are there 3 different (and active) cat-centric
newsgroups?

> Granted you were looking for a 'wider audience' but many spam
> filters will delete your messages unseen if there is more than
> one group in there.

Only those that are ignorant in how usenet works would deploy such a
rule in their news-reading agent - especially if they set the limit to
1. A rejection based on a cross-post to more than 5 groups is more
realistic and understandible. But not 1.

A more efficient way to deal with off-topic or junk posts (which tend
to be crazily cross-posted) is to simply kill-file the posters who
exhibit that behavior.

Rhonda[_3_]
April 13th 08, 08:25 PM
Cat Guy wrote:
> Rhonda wrote:
>
>
>>If the worm was longish and thin, it sounds like a roundworm.
>
>
> The worm looked like this:
>
> http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images14/TapewormImg_1395.jpg
>
> but I didn't think it was as white in color as in that picture. It
> was mostly flat, and segmented, and tapered at one end.
>
> Roundworms (if I'm not mistaken) are round (not flat) and smooth.

The roundworms our kittens had were sort of a brownish, and long and
skinny. I really didn't get close enough to look for segments! Looking
at your picture though, it didn't look bumpy like that.

>>I've read on websites, a roundworm infestation can get so bad
>>that the worms are also in the stomach.
>
>
> Well, I think this was a tapeworm. Do roundworms shed
> rice-grain-sized segments out the annus? Remember, I did see 4 or 5
> such dried segments in his bedding.

Here's something I just found on a website:

--------
What are the clinical signs?

Tapeworms are not particularly harmful to the cat and few clinical signs
are attributed to their presence. Usually, the cat is presented because
of the guardian’s reaction to the presence of the crawling proglottids.
Rarely, tapeworms may cause debilitation or weight loss if they are
present in large numbers. Also, a cat will occasionally scoot or drag
his anus across the ground or carpet due to the anal irritation caused
by the proglottids. This behavior is much more common in dogs than cats.

Occasionally, a tapeworm will release its attachment in the intestines
and migrate to the stomach. When this happens, the cat may vomit an
adult tapeworm several inches in length.

Full site: http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/tapeworms.html
-------


If it is a tapeworm, and it does sound more like that, there's a
reminder in the site to treat the environment for fleas since that's how
the whole cycle starts.

I really hope you'll talk this all over with a vet and get a
professional opinion. I'm concerned since your cat was in discomfort.

Rhonda

Wendy
April 13th 08, 08:57 PM
"Cat Guy" > wrote in message ...
> Rhonda wrote:
>
>> If the worm was longish and thin, it sounds like a roundworm.
>
> The worm looked like this:
>
> http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images14/TapewormImg_1395.jpg
>
> but I didn't think it was as white in color as in that picture. It
> was mostly flat, and segmented, and tapered at one end.
>
> Roundworms (if I'm not mistaken) are round (not flat) and smooth.
>
>> I've read on websites, a roundworm infestation can get so bad
>> that the worms are also in the stomach.
>
> Well, I think this was a tapeworm. Do roundworms shed
> rice-grain-sized segments out the annus? Remember, I did see 4 or 5
> such dried segments in his bedding.

Many years ago a cat of mine barfed up a tapeworm. Only happened once and
she needed to be treated for them after that so I guess it's not a common
occurrence but not unheard of.

IIRC a follow up dose of drontal should be given I think a month after the
first but I'm not sure on the timing.

W

-mhd[_2_]
April 14th 08, 12:03 AM
Cat Guy > wrote:

>I've been posting to usenet since 1988.

Clearly clueless since 1988.

>I know what usenet is, and how it should be used.
>
>It IS NOT "bad" to crosspost when the groups being posted to have
>something in common with the subject matter being discussed.

Then you should know the difference between multiposting (good) and
crossposting (bad).

-mhd

-mhd[_2_]
April 14th 08, 12:13 AM
Cat Guy > wrote:

>It IS NOT "bad" to crosspost when the groups being posted to have
>something in common with the subject matter being discussed.

Ignore my reply with apologies (heh, maybe I cancelled it in time).
It's multiposting that is bad and crossposting is the correct form.

-mhd

Upscale
April 14th 08, 01:45 AM
"-mhd" > wrote in message
Ignore my reply with apologies (heh, maybe I cancelled it in time).

Too slow. It's been echoed around the world 3 zillion times and you're name
is now forever associated with multiposting and crossposting horrors.

Cat Guy
April 14th 08, 03:02 AM
-mhd wrote:

> >I've been posting to usenet since 1988.
>
> Clearly clueless since 1988.

You're clearly a moron, or a troll. Your next response will tell me
which one.

> Then you should know the difference between multiposting (good)
> and crossposting (bad).

You do realize that you just stuck your foot in your mouth, don't you?

Multi-posting is widely recognized as being *bad* usenet etiquette.

Posting (or cross-posting) content not related to the target group(s)
is also bad usenet etiquette.

Cat Guy
April 14th 08, 03:04 AM
-mhd wrote:

> Ignore my reply with apologies (heh, maybe I cancelled it in
> time). It's multiposting that is bad and crossposting is the
> correct form.

hmmmm.

Too late.

Ignore my reply to your reply then...

Cat Guy
April 14th 08, 03:10 AM
I'm re-posting this because AMUN removed some of the distrubution
groups before I realized it. I'm restoring them.

AMUN wrote:

> Gee whiz. I caused all this trouble ?

> Only because my news-server only allows posts to one group, to
> avoid spam.

You appear to be using the AIOE.ORG news server, as do I.

That server allows cross-posting to 3 groups (without specifying a
followup-to: group) and up to 5 groups (requiring you to specify a
followup-to: group).

In most cases, 3 groups is sufficient. In some cases, 5 can be
useful.

balikitty
April 14th 08, 08:54 AM
On Apr 12, 10:27*am, Cat Guy > wrote:
> We recently gave one of our cats a deworming pill (milbemax) and later
> found a worm (sorta looked like a tan-colored rubber band) in a pile
> of vomit.
>
> I thought that tape worms reside or attach to the intestinal wall (and
> not the stomach wall) and therefore when the worm leaves the cat it's
> by way of the stool.
>
> So is it normal, or unusual, for the worm to be vomited out?

If you are seeing an actual worm when the cat regurgitates food, the
cat can ingest the worm while grooming. Tape worms look exactly like
rice. If it is a roundworm, which will be visible in vomit, its more
spaghetti-like. Before the cat is infested this bad with worms , your
pet will be obviously ill. It will be hard to actually see a tape
worm that has been ingested and comes back up in vomit. The likely way
your cat can actually do this with a tape worm, it will be ingested
and thrown up immediately. If this happens again. Take the worm to
your vet, they can identify under a microscope. You will have to do
this fairly soon, as the worm will dry up.

Wendy
April 14th 08, 11:41 AM
"balikitty" > wrote in message
...
On Apr 12, 10:27 am, Cat Guy > wrote:
> We recently gave one of our cats a deworming pill (milbemax) and later
> found a worm (sorta looked like a tan-colored rubber band) in a pile
> of vomit.
>
> I thought that tape worms reside or attach to the intestinal wall (and
> not the stomach wall) and therefore when the worm leaves the cat it's
> by way of the stool.
>
> So is it normal, or unusual, for the worm to be vomited out?

If you are seeing an actual worm when the cat regurgitates food, the
cat can ingest the worm while grooming. Tape worms look exactly like
rice. If it is a roundworm, which will be visible in vomit, its more
spaghetti-like. Before the cat is infested this bad with worms , your
pet will be obviously ill. It will be hard to actually see a tape
worm that has been ingested and comes back up in vomit. The likely way
your cat can actually do this with a tape worm, it will be ingested
and thrown up immediately. If this happens again. Take the worm to
your vet, they can identify under a microscope. You will have to do
this fairly soon, as the worm will dry up.

They won't need a microscope to identify the tape worm that the cat barfed
up. You'll never mistake one of them for round worms. I also have had a cat
barf up a tape worm. We took it to the vet where they confirmed the
identification and finally issued the meds that we had been requesting they
give us for weeks. The rice you've seen are tapeworm segments that are shed.
The cat cannot get a tapeworm from ingesting the segments. The cat must
ingest the intermediary host (flea or rodent) in order to acquire a tape
worm.

W

balikitty
April 14th 08, 05:12 PM
On Apr 14, 6:41*am, "Wendy" > wrote:
> "balikitty" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Apr 12, 10:27 am, Cat Guy > wrote:
>
> > We recently gave one of our cats a deworming pill (milbemax) and later
> > found a worm (sorta looked like a tan-colored rubber band) in a pile
> > of vomit.
>
> > I thought that tape worms reside or attach to the intestinal wall (and
> > not the stomach wall) and therefore when the worm leaves the cat it's
> > by way of the stool.
>
> > So is it normal, or unusual, for the worm to be vomited out?
>
> If you are seeing an actual worm when the cat regurgitates food, the
> cat can ingest the worm while grooming. Tape worms look exactly like
> rice. If it is a roundworm, which will be visible in vomit, its more
> spaghetti-like. Before the cat is infested this bad with worms , your
> pet will be obviously ill. *It will be hard to actually see a tape
> worm that has been ingested and comes back up in vomit. The likely way
> your cat can actually do this with a tape worm, it will be ingested
> and thrown up immediately. *If this happens again. Take the worm to
> your vet, they can identify under a microscope. You will have to do
> this fairly soon, as the worm will dry up.
>
> They won't need a microscope to identify the tape worm that the cat barfed
> up. You'll never mistake one of them for round worms. I also have had a cat
> barf up a tape worm. We took it to the vet where they confirmed the
> identification and finally issued the meds that we had been requesting they
> give us for weeks. The rice you've seen are tapeworm segments that are shed.
> The cat cannot get a tapeworm from ingesting the segments. The cat must
> ingest the intermediary host (flea or rodent) in order to acquire a tape
> worm.
>
> W

Im not saying anyone will mistake it for a roundworm. i dont think
what she is seeing is a worm at all. I am a licensed vet tech for 18
years. Trust me on this. thanks.

William Graham
April 15th 08, 01:01 AM
"-mhd" > wrote in message
...
Cat Guy > wrote:

>It IS NOT "bad" to crosspost when the groups being posted to have
>something in common with the subject matter being discussed.

Ignore my reply with apologies (heh, maybe I cancelled it in time).
It's multiposting that is bad and crossposting is the correct form.

-mhd

My problem with all this is that I never know how to make sure that the
original poster receives my answer without posting my reply to all the
groups he has listed in his header.....IOW, where, exactly is he posting
from? If I knew that, then I could eliminate all the other groups from the
header, and confine the answer to the original poster's group, plus,
(perhaps) any other groups that might also be interested. But without
knowing that, I have little choice but to post my answer to all the groups
in the header of the original post.

Cat Guy
April 15th 08, 04:02 AM
balikitty wrote:

> > So is it normal, or unusual, for the worm to be vomited out?
>
> If you are seeing an actual worm when the cat regurgitates food,
> the cat can ingest the worm while grooming.

Where would the worm come from that he would injest while grooming?

Let me recap the history here:

We caught a stray cat on our front porch in a raccoon trap in
mid-January.

Cat was released in an unused spare room and kept there for a day or
two. Cat was very frantic in our presence, tried to climb the walls,
windows, etc. Have never seen that before in a captured adult cat
before. Managed to divert the cat into a cat carrier, took cat to the
vet.

Health record notes say this: 10.4 lbs, Neuter. Healthy. Very
Feral. Fleas and flea dirt seen. Revolution applied. Vaccines:
FVRCP, FeLv, rabies (Imrab 3).

I stressed to the vet that I wanted a worm pill administered by them
while the cat is still "controllable" or some-what sedated, especially
since this cat is unfamilliar to me. A drontal tablet appears on the
bill, and in the health record it also says that a drontal was
administered, along with the revolution and an FeLV / FIV test (test =
negative).

The negative test for FIV is some-what unexpected, as most of the
stray cats that we catch end up testing positive for FIV. But then
again, we go to 2 different vets, and most (or all) of the positive
tests seem to come from tests performed by the other vet.

While cat was at the vet, we cleaned the room, laundered the canvas
floor covering and all blankets, bedding, etc. Cat was released into
the room, was immediately less frantic and very quickly was calm when
we came into the room to feed him. Could pet his head, behind his
ears, etc, but he usually initially gave a hiss and stiffened up.

After about 7 weeks, we noticed a reddish streak on the canvas floor
covering, and a new streak almost every day for 2 weeks afterwards.
Stool always appeared normal (no diarhea), always ate all the food,
drank water, etc. Reddish streaking stopped, but he becomes more
resistant to being approached and petted. We cleaned the room at this
point, laundered the canvas floor covering and all blankets, sheets
and bedding.

Two weeks later, I see large vomit pile (did not examine it closely,
but nothing "wormy-looking" was obvious). Also see dried tape worm
segments in bedding. He absolutely refuses to be petted. Backs into
a corner when petting is attempted, hisses, etc. The next morning I
place small milbemax pill in with a small amount of soft food. He
eats all food, no sign that he spat out the pill. I go to work.

Come home from work, find new vomit pile. See what on first glance
looks like a rubber band. Closer inspection shows that it's a worm.
Flat (not round) about 1/4" wide. Ridged or segmented (not smooth).
Divert cat into cat carrier, take him out of room, clean room, launder
everything again.

It's been 3 or 4 days now, cat is again approachable, can be petted.

Not sure what to do at this point, except maybe try to apply
revolution and give him another milbemax in 3 weeks.

Again I stress that this worm was flat, not round. Looked like one of
those large (wide) rubber bands (not like a piece of spaghetti).

Cat really never gave any outward appearance of being ill. Was always
alert (when we were in the room scooping his litter or feeding him).

> i dont think what he is seeing is a worm at all. I am a licensed
> vet tech for 18 years. Trust me on this. thanks.

I've seen a lot of different vomits from our various cats over the
years. Trust me - this was a worm, not a noodle that somehow found
it's way into his room and eaten by him and then was upchucked and
somehow came out completely intact.

> Did kitty have a fecal sample done?

No - no fecal samples have yet been done.

Phil P.
April 15th 08, 09:07 AM
"Cat Guy" > wrote in message ...
> The worm looked like this:
>
> http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images14/TapewormImg_1395.jpg
>
> but I didn't think it was as white in color as in that picture. It
> was mostly flat, and segmented, and tapered at one end.

Like this:
http://maxshouse.com/Parasitology/feline_tapewoms/dipylidium_caninum_Feline_flea_tapeworm.jpg


They didn't look like this, did they:
http://maxshouse.com/Parasitology/Whipworms+egg.jpg

These worms aren't all that common in cats.


>
> Roundworms (if I'm not mistaken) are round (not flat) and smooth.


Yes: http://maxshouse.com/Parasitology/Roundworms.jpg


They're more commonly seen like this:
http://maxshouse.com/Parasitology/Crickets_passengers.jpg


>
> Well, I think this was a tapeworm. Do roundworms shed
> rice-grain-sized segments out the annus?

No.

cshenk
April 15th 08, 09:10 PM
"William Graham" wrote in message
> Cat Guy > wrote:
>
>>It IS NOT "bad" to crosspost when the groups being posted to have
>>something in common with the subject matter being discussed.

It it's horrible! Catguy, my apologies if I made it seem so. I didnt
explain fully and then accidently overdeleted so this is the firat reply
I've seen.

All the groups are cat related.

> My problem with all this is that I never know how to make sure that the
> original poster receives my answer without posting my reply to all the
> groups he has listed in his header.....IOW, where, exactly is he posting
> from? If I knew that, then I could eliminate all the other groups from the
> header, and confine the answer to the original poster's group, plus,
> (perhaps) any other groups that might also be interested. But without
> knowing that, I have little choice but to post my answer to all the groups
> in the header of the original post.

One should be able to 'presume' if the poster added a group though, that
they read it. Hence by 'nettiqutte' we should be able to reply just to the
one group we are in. I do not for example get the other groups (only
rec.pets.health+behav) so deleted them in the reply.

What I meant to explain was how many automated spam filters will act. A spam
filter applied at the user end is often set to delete any messages with more
than one newsgroup in the header to deliver to. As a result, some will
never _see_ his origional message. Catguy wasnt 'rude' or 'bad' or
'spamming'. He was simply unaware and asked why some deleted the other
groups.

It would also be 'wrong' of me to reply to the other groups since I do not
get them and the others in those other groups won't know that so if they
reply only to one of those, to me, I'll never see it. Not 'horrible' of me
if I added them in, but a little rude unless I warned in the post that
replies would have to go just to 'this group'

April 17th 08, 03:43 AM
On Apr 12, 10:27 am, Cat Guy > wrote:
> We recently gave one of our cats a deworming pill (milbemax) and later
> found a worm (sorta looked like a tan-colored rubber band) in a pile
> of vomit.
>
> I thought that tape worms reside or attach to the intestinal wall (and
> not the stomach wall) and therefore when the worm leaves the cat it's
> by way of the stool.
>
> So is it normal, or unusual, for the worm to be vomited out?

April 17th 08, 03:48 AM
On Apr 12, 10:27 am, Cat Guy > wrote:
> We recently gave one of our cats a deworming pill (milbemax) and later
> found a worm (sorta looked like a tan-colored rubber band) in a pile
> of vomit.
>
> I thought that tape worms reside or attach to the intestinal wall (and
> not the stomach wall) and therefore when the worm leaves the cat it's
> by way of the stool.
>
> So is it normal, or unusual, for the worm to be vomited out?

It's not common, but it's normal. I had a large gray cat named Purr
Baby. He' throw up tape worms from time to time when he got older.
He passed last month.

Our vet said a tape worm had to be pretty long to get barfed up. They
looked like large rubber bands covered in bile.

If you cat is older, consider checking him for other parasites.
Consider giving him a B-12 shot since tape worms deplete B-12. It
helped Purr Baby a lot.

--Wayne

April 17th 08, 04:29 AM
On Apr 12, 12:27 pm, Cat Guy > wrote:
> AMUN wrote:
> > > I thought that tape worms reside or attach to the intestinal
> > > wall (and not the stomach wall) and therefore when the worm
> > > leaves the cat it's by way of the stool.
>
> > > So is it normal, or unusual, for the worm to be vomited out?
> > Not 100% normal. but I've heard of that happening even without
> > deworming. Usually the infestation is pretty bad by the time
> > it gets to the point it vomits them up though
>
> > Although are you sure it wasn't a rubber band ?
> > Cats can try to eat some pretty strange things
>
> The (male) cat in question was caught in a trap around mid-January on
> our front porch and soon after was taken to a vet for neutering,
> vaccination and Revolution treatment. I'm pretty sure he was given a
> drontal pill during recovery by the vet.
>
> He is kept in a spare room with a minimal amount of furnature. Unlike
> other cats we've caught, fixed, and adopted out, this guy has remained
> very wild and resists all attempts to socialize with us, even after 11
> weeks. I can barely reach out and touch his head without him opening
> his eyes and his mouth wide and hissing as he backs into a corner. He
> has been quite content to simply sleep in a corner under a table most
> of the time. Not a sound from him - unlike the other cats we've
> caught (they usually cry at night, I think as they look out the
> window).
>
> About a month ago we noticed that there were reddish streaks on the
> canvas drop-cover we have on the floor of his room. A new streak
> seemed to be appearing each day for about a week or two. I'm thinking
> they were bum-scoots. A few days ago he threw up a lot of food, and
> that's when I noticed dried tape-worm segments on the blanket where he
> sleeps.
>
> So I placed a milbemax pill (un-crushed) in with his food and within
> 12 hours he vomitted up some food and the worm. It was definately a
> worm and not a rubber band.
>
> And the very next night (last night) he started crying. Hopefully his
> quiteness and wildness was being caused by GI discomfort that has now
> passed and perhaps he might just start being more friendly. We
> were/are considering letting him go in a week or two because we
> considered him unadoptable.
>
> I'm wondering if I should give him another milbemax in a week just to
> make sure we've gotten rid of all the worms.
>
> Comments? Questions?
Here's a technique I've used to quickly make friends with ferals.

I take a stick about 18" long (the first one was a bamboo back
scratcher in the shape of a hand) and sit on the floor or on a chair
near them. It you have them in a bathroom with the door closed,
that's seems easiest. But it's also tricky. Don't chase them.

I sit still and breathe deep and slow until my excitement drains off.
Cats can smell it and ferals don't know if your excitement is
dangerous or not. Then I softly scratch the floor and withdraw. I'll
do this for fifteen minutes.

Then I place my hand on the floor just out of reach and even with
their hips. I hold the stick on the floor parallel to their body up
even with their head, and wag it back and forth a few inches, and then
stop. This may get a hiss.

More breathing and slowing. Hissing goes straight from the cat to my
adrenals. Have to slow back down.

Then I get the stick near enough for them to swat, which they do. If
I haven't made a sound and kept my energy calm, the look on their face
is usually, 'Doh! Just a stick.'

My first stick contact is usually a paw or forearm. This seems to be
the least threatening because they have easy options and feel in
control. Any hiss puts my focus back on my breathing.

With adult ferals it takes me about 30-45 minutes and many hisses
until I'm scratching their neck with the end of the stick. (Damn, I
miss that back scratcher; it was perfect for this.)

With kittens and juveniles, it goes faster. They have so few points
of reference in their young lives that they don't judge me quick. I
can scratch their neck and cheek and slip my hand down the stick until
a finger replaces the stick. Our first affectionate touch.

If adults freak, let them and try again later. Don't chase or squeak
at them. It's not so much that you're going to get scratched, but that
you're confirming some prejudice from their life experience or
instinct.

I can usually pick up the kittens and nuzzle them under my jaw. The
breath sounds and my voice seem familiar to them. Still, don't chase
the kittens yet. A stick with a feather that they can chase is much
better. If you need to coral them at bedtime, have them chase the
feather until their a bit winded and close to you. Then just pck them
up.

Play hard. Pick them up during and after play. Tuck them in and let
them lick cream cheese off your finger.

Cream cheese is the net step with the adults. I lay on the floor and
extend my hand along an arc so they watch it slowly coming from my
side towards their front feet. I stop when they swat me.

If they didn't use claws, which is often the case, then I make eye
contact and smile. Smiling changes my energy. It also masks the
discomfort of laying on the floor. They know when you're
uncomfortable and it can confuse them or put them on guard.

We rescued a 20 pound Manx momma kitty and her two kittens out of the
Tullies. She would sit under the kitchen table and watch her kittens
eat next to our other cats, watch her Manx son curl up to sleep with
our Rottweiller, watch my wife stroke the back and tail of her other
son, and slap the floor like a cheetah every time I approached her.

Then, after a week or so with the stick and the cream cheese, I rolled
over one morning, sweat pouring from the middle of my back, and caught
a glimpse of a big Manx rump gliding off the bed.

She slept with me for weeks. Then one day I was playing with her
kittens. They would run up to my feet, slam on the breaks, crash into
me and run away. I would reach down and swat at their behinds as they
retreated. It got pretty rowdy as the boys got into it. Then momma
got closer to watch.

I tried to get her to play. She backed up, doubt covering her eyes.
I went towards her. She ran back. I moved faster and spoke to her
and she hissed, slapped the floor, and glared at me, the betrayal
filling her eyes and piercing my heart.

She never slept with me again.

Don't chase the adult ferals. Do earn their trust. They're
magnificent spirits.

Wayne

Cat Guy
April 17th 08, 02:08 PM
wrote:

> I had a large gray cat named Purr Baby. He' throw up tape worms
> from time to time when he got older. He passed last month.

Why not give him a flea treatment like revolution instead of seeing
him infested with worms?

> Consider giving him a B-12 shot since tape worms deplete B-12.
> It helped Purr Baby a lot.

Wouln't a flea treatment help even more (to prevent worms) ?

April 21st 08, 01:52 PM
On Apr 12, 10:27 am, Cat Guy > wrote:
> We recently gave one of our cats a deworming pill (milbemax) and later
> found a worm (sorta looked like a tan-colored rubber band) in a pile
> of vomit.
>
> I thought that tape worms reside or attach to the intestinal wall (and
> not the stomach wall) and therefore when the worm leaves the cat it's
> by way of the stool.
>
> So is it normal, or unusual, for the worm to be vomited out?

Once the drug is ingested, the worms are effected almost immediately.
This includes detaching from the intestinal wall, and an attempt to
escape the caustic effects of the drug. It is possible for the worm
to leave the body via stool or vomit with a heavy burden, but because
of the nature of most tapeworms, they are more likely to be absorbed
by the animal's body.
Because mibemycin is part of the drug you gave, it is possible, too
that your cat had roundworms which may be what you saw instead of a
tapeworm.
Milbemax has both milbemycin and praziquantel in it. Milbemycin is a
drug used in preventative care, such as Interceptor. Praziquantel is
strictly a tapeworm deworming agent.
The other possibility is that you didn't see a worm at all, but a
foreign object that resembles one.
yup, i think i covered everything. ;)

April 21st 08, 02:04 PM
On Apr 14, 3:54 am, balikitty > wrote:
> On Apr 12, 10:27 am, Cat Guy > wrote:
>
> > We recently gave one of our cats a deworming pill (milbemax) and later
> > found a worm (sorta looked like a tan-colored rubber band) in a pile
> > of vomit.
>
> > I thought that tape worms reside or attach to the intestinal wall (and
> > not the stomach wall) and therefore when the worm leaves the cat it's
> > by way of the stool.
>
> > So is it normal, or unusual, for the worm to be vomited out?
>
> If you are seeing an actual worm when the cat regurgitates food, the
> cat can ingest the worm while grooming. Tape worms look exactly like
> rice. If it is a roundworm, which will be visible in vomit, its more
> spaghetti-like. Before the cat is infested this bad with worms , your
> pet will be obviously ill. It will be hard to actually see a tape
> worm that has been ingested and comes back up in vomit. The likely way
> your cat can actually do this with a tape worm, it will be ingested
> and thrown up immediately. If this happens again. Take the worm to
> your vet, they can identify under a microscope. You will have to do
> this fairly soon, as the worm will dry up.

Tapeworms MUST go through an intermediate host before developing to an
adult in the small intestine. Usually in household situations, flea
larvae are the culprit. Control your fleas and you control your
tapeworms. There is absolutely no way that an animal who ingests one
of the rice looking packets will develop adults from it.
Also, you can keep the worm in a ziplock with a tiny bit of saline
solution to preserve it long enough for the vet to check it out.
Roundworms will cause a general ill look to an animal with them, but
tapeworms often do not present with any signs aside from the detached
proglottids (the rice things) in the stool.
Be very careful handling the tapeworm segments, there are some species
out there (though the likelihood is extremely low) that it could be a
type that the human is the intermediate host, which can be very
dangerous.
Just be sure to wash your hands very well.