PDA

View Full Version : Tommy not back to normal yet and still not eating.


Mac Cool
May 23rd 08, 10:01 PM
If you remember from my thread about Tommy who has a bad heart and just
got out of the hospital...

Well he isn't the same cat. I mean when I look into his eyes, it's like
there is only a shadow of his former self looking back. Hopefully it's
temporary but my wife thinks he suffered brain damage, she even asked the
vet at the hospital who chuckled at the question and basically said, no.
But he is different. This is the first time one of my cats has gone
through such a tramatic experience, is it normal to be so different? Tommy
was full neurosis before now it's like he's checked out. Maybe it is the
medicine. He follows us around and mews like a baby kitten almost but
mostly he likes to stay in the bathroom, right now he is lying in the
bathtub which he has only done once before when he started getting sick.

Also, he is not eating. The vet gave us Mirtazapine, one tablet every
three days to increase appetite. It has been one day and he still won't
eat. He is drinking and using the litter box but he just sits and looks at
his food bowl but doesn't try to eat. He hasn't eaten anything in a week
except a little softfood that I pack his pills in. Should I start force
feeding him soft food if he doesn't snap out of it by tomorrow?

cshenk
May 23rd 08, 10:49 PM
"Mac Cool" wrote

> If you remember from my thread about Tommy who has a bad heart and just
> got out of the hospital...

Yes.

> Well he isn't the same cat. I mean when I look into his eyes, it's like
> there is only a shadow of his former self looking back. Hopefully it's

Give him time to recover. It may be transitory.

> Also, he is not eating. The vet gave us Mirtazapine, one tablet every
> three days to increase appetite. It has been one day and he still won't
> eat. He is drinking and using the litter box but he just sits and looks at
> his food bowl but doesn't try to eat. He hasn't eaten anything in a week

See the 'cat throws up, long post'. Look specifically at the brtoh ideas.
Can you make up a thickish meaty broth and try setting that out? Make real
sure it's salt free or very reduced sodium.

I had a neighbor just 3 weeks ago with something a bit like this with his
elderly cat. My neighbor knows I make stock as we bring him some every
month or so with a reduced sodium base. I was making more and he came over
to see if he could get some so I made up a special batch just for cats.

Basically a chicken soup for cats <g>. Furball (yes, thats his name) lapped
it up and about 5 days later started eating again.

Salt-free Recipe follows:

5 cups water
3 cups broken up fresh chicken meat with bones
1 beef marrow bone circle (with marrow about 2TB rough guess)

Set in crockpot on high for 2 hours (I was in a rush to get some ready) then
low for 4 more hours. Put crock in fridge long enough to cool so you can
handle the meat. Pour off the stock into a pan and reduce it further til
you have about 4 cups broth. Separate the meat off the bones and if marrow
still stuck in the beef bone, add this to the meat.

Discard bones. Finely mince up about 1/2 cup of the meat into the broth.
Serve the rest of the meat at the side in 2 TS amounts minced finely. Cool
the broth and remove any solid fats and keep to the side to add over the
minced meat. Do not completely defat the broth.

To serve, warm it to slightly over room temperature (can set a cup with some
in the sink in a pan of hot tap water).

Made about enough for 8 days at 1/2 cup broth a day (given in 1/4 cup
amounts) but neighbor was running a little low on the minced meat with fats
and marrow by 5th day.

Furball now is sitting in the window as normal and chittering at the birds.
I made an extra effort to sprinkle some of the dried out bread crumbs
infront of his window, just for him <g>.

cshenk
May 23rd 08, 11:03 PM
Oh, add on note to last:

I usually make stock with leftover 'carcasses' after roasting a chicken but
this one was made with fresh (frozen) thighs which my neighbor cut so the
bone's marrow would leach out into the broth.

Also, he had some 'cat milk' which 'Furball' refused til the 3rd day then
gently started taking a little lazy lap at. Furball ate almost none of the
solids at the bottom of the broth or at the side for the first 3 days but he
did eat a little bit or at least seemed to lick the fat off the meat side
dish. (The solid fats which I skimmed off the top a bit were added to the
meat).

Right now, other than getting some nutrition into the cat, your only concern
would be to keep it low-salt. Run that by your vet to be sure but mine have
always harped on it since they found out I make my own petfoods often
enough.

The neighbor's Furball is 18 and looks like he'll see many more years.

Mac Cool
May 23rd 08, 11:31 PM
cshenk:

> Basically a chicken soup for cats <g>. Furball (yes, thats his name)
> lapped it up and about 5 days later started eating again.

Sounds great. Thanks a bunch.

Mac Cool
May 23rd 08, 11:34 PM
Matthew:

> He could have very well had a stroke and yes a trauma can change a
> cats personality. Was the idiot that laughed a vet tech, your vet
> or the specialist.

It was the intern that took care of him in the hospital. Basically she
said that he wouldn't suffer brain damage unless he was deprived of oxygen
for several minutes.

I'm never going back to the original vet.

> IMO new vet or a trip to a specialist which I believe you were going
> to call the other day what did they say
>
> baby food make sure it has no onions in it
>
> Gatorade if you can get it in him
>
> maybe some thing that smells strong sardines, tuna juice for
> example
>
> rice pudding

Tuna juice might fly, I never thought of gatorade. He's always been so
damn stubborn about only eating dry food but I'll see what I can do.

cybercat
May 24th 08, 12:23 AM
"Mac Cool" > wrote in message
...
> Matthew:
>
>> He could have very well had a stroke and yes a trauma can change a
>> cats personality. Was the idiot that laughed a vet tech, your vet
>> or the specialist.
>
> It was the intern that took care of him in the hospital. Basically she
> said that he wouldn't suffer brain damage unless he was deprived of oxygen
> for several minutes.
>
> I'm never going back to the original vet.

Good for you. My heart hurts for you and Tommy now. He's so young for this.
It may be congenital, as it is in humans. I hope he will come back to be the
cat
you know and love, and that he can have some good time left with you.

dejablues[_4_]
May 24th 08, 03:34 AM
"Mac Cool" > wrote in message
...
> If you remember from my thread about Tommy who has a bad heart and just
> got out of the hospital...
>
> Well he isn't the same cat. I mean when I look into his eyes, it's like
> there is only a shadow of his former self looking back. Hopefully it's
> temporary but my wife thinks he suffered brain damage, she even asked the
> vet at the hospital who chuckled at the question and basically said, no.
> But he is different. This is the first time one of my cats has gone
> through such a tramatic experience, is it normal to be so different? Tommy
> was full neurosis before now it's like he's checked out. Maybe it is the
> medicine. He follows us around and mews like a baby kitten almost but
> mostly he likes to stay in the bathroom, right now he is lying in the
> bathtub which he has only done once before when he started getting sick.
>
> Also, he is not eating. The vet gave us Mirtazapine, one tablet every
> three days to increase appetite. It has been one day and he still won't
> eat. He is drinking and using the litter box but he just sits and looks at
> his food bowl but doesn't try to eat. He hasn't eaten anything in a week
> except a little softfood that I pack his pills in. Should I start force
> feeding him soft food if he doesn't snap out of it by tomorrow?

My guess is that he's in pain, is just not feeling well, and he knows
something is terribly wrong.
If he is not eating, and you have to force him (what would be the point of
that?) , perhaps the kindest thing would be to let him go.

Mac Cool
May 24th 08, 04:03 AM
dejablues:

> My guess is that he's in pain, is just not feeling well, and he knows
> something is terribly wrong.
> If he is not eating, and you have to force him (what would be the
> point of
> that?) , perhaps the kindest thing would be to let him go.

The point would be to help him get his strength back. Not to put things in
the wrong context but if I were going to give up easily I would have saved
myself a bunch of money.

dejablues[_4_]
May 24th 08, 04:32 AM
"Mac Cool" > wrote in message
...
> dejablues:
>
>> My guess is that he's in pain, is just not feeling well, and he knows
>> something is terribly wrong.
>> If he is not eating, and you have to force him (what would be the
>> point of
>> that?) , perhaps the kindest thing would be to let him go.
>
> The point would be to help him get his strength back. Not to put things in
> the wrong context but if I were going to give up easily I would have saved
> myself a bunch of money.

Ah, there's the hard part. We have to make choices for our pets, and hope
that they're the correct ones. It's your decision not to give up easily, not
his. Keeping treatment going to justify the money already spent may just
prolong the inevitable, and I hope you know your cat well enough to know
when he's done.

Good luck to both of you.

cshenk
May 24th 08, 06:15 PM
"Mac Cool" wrote
> cshenk:
>
>> Basically a chicken soup for cats <g>. Furball (yes, thats his name)
>> lapped it up and about 5 days later started eating again.
>
> Sounds great. Thanks a bunch.

Glad to help! It's not often I get asked how to make 'chicken soup for
cats' so it was fun to type it up. Oh, and though I used a crockpot, you
can do it on the stove too. Low simmer for about 3 hours seems right? May
have to add a little water as it goes along to keep it 'brothy' that way.
In the case of 'Furball', I had some duck broth (salt free, no onions or
other veggies added, no spice) in the freezer so I handed that over right
away and had time to make the rest up.

You wont see it in this newsgroup, but I make about 1 gallon of stock a
week. We use it alot and have to watch the sodium for Don. Mine's not as
'pretty-clear' but it tastes better than store stuff and without any salt
added.

Keep us posted ok?

Mac Cool
May 25th 08, 02:31 AM
dejablues:

> Ah, there's the hard part. We have to make choices for our pets, and
> hope that they're the correct ones. It's your decision not to give up
> easily, not his. Keeping treatment going to justify the money already
> spent may just prolong the inevitable, and I hope you know your cat
> well enough to know when he's done.

The inevitable is that he will die, and much younger than normal because
of his weak heart. I don't know why he isn't eating, I don't know that he
has given up, he can't tell me that. What I do know is that animals fight
to live as a rule. And I know that he has been a loyal companion to me and
I am being loyal in return; sometimes you need someone there to urge you
on when the going gets tough.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to get him to eat broth or even milk
although he drinks water just fine. So I give him a marble sized plop of
soft food with each pill he takes (4/day total) + I gave him 3 more marble
sized blobs of food for good measure. He is definitely stronger and feels
better today than he did yesterday and has been purring up a storm. He
still just sits and looks at his food bowl and meows at me like he is
expecting something but I don't know what, he won't touch anything I've
tried.

dejablues[_4_]
May 25th 08, 04:01 AM
"Mac Cool" > wrote in message
...
> dejablues:
>
>> Ah, there's the hard part. We have to make choices for our pets, and
>> hope that they're the correct ones. It's your decision not to give up
>> easily, not his. Keeping treatment going to justify the money already
>> spent may just prolong the inevitable, and I hope you know your cat
>> well enough to know when he's done.
>
> The inevitable is that he will die, and much younger than normal because
> of his weak heart. I don't know why he isn't eating, I don't know that he
> has given up, he can't tell me that. What I do know is that animals fight
> to live as a rule.

From my experience, that is not true, especially with cats. They pretty much
know when they are not going to get better and when to slink off and die.


And I know that he has been a loyal companion to me and
> I am being loyal in return; sometimes you need someone there to urge you
> on when the going gets tough.
>
> Unfortunately I haven't been able to get him to eat broth or even milk
> although he drinks water just fine. So I give him a marble sized plop of
> soft food with each pill he takes (4/day total) + I gave him 3 more marble
> sized blobs of food for good measure. He is definitely stronger and feels
> better today than he did yesterday and has been purring up a storm. He
> still just sits and looks at his food bowl and meows at me like he is
> expecting something but I don't know what, he won't touch anything I've
> tried.

Not eating at all is a sign of something very wrong. Try giving him baby
food jarred meats .If he won't eat those, then he won't eat anything, and a
cat that doesn't eat can't live.

I'm sorry, and don't mean to be harsh, but I've been there with more than a
few of my cats.
:-(

Mac Cool
May 25th 08, 07:19 AM
dejablues:

> From my experience, that is not true, especially with cats. They
> pretty much know when they are not going to get better and when to
> slink off and die.

No, they fight to live as a rule. That doesn't mean they never go off
to die but as a rule, they want to live. Only humans give up easily.

> Not eating at all is a sign of something very wrong.

Like what? I don't eat when I'm sick, sometimes for days. It isn't as if
he hasn't been under intense medical care for the last week. He's had
blood work, urinalysis, x-rays, ultrasounds and god knows what else.

> Try giving him baby food jarred meats .If he won't eat those, then he
> won't eat anything

He wouldn't eat them if he were healthy. I've never been able to get him
to eat anything other than dry catfood, not even milk or tuna; he won't
even touch them.

> I'm sorry, and don't mean to be harsh, but I've been there with more
> than a few of my cats.

He's only out of the hospital for two days, it's a little early to throw
in the towel. It would be easier to give up, easier on me by far to stop
worring but that isn't my way. Force feeding him may be futile but then we
have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I have to give him pills
anyway and giving him soft food is the same process, open his mouth, drop
in some food and hold his chin up so he can't spit the food out. He's not
exactly suffering and each day he has looked stronger. Neither one of us
are quitting just yet.

Riannon via CatKB.com
May 25th 08, 10:13 PM
Mac Cool wrote:
>He's only out of the hospital for two days, it's a little early to throw
>in the towel. It would be easier to give up, easier on me by far to stop
>worring but that isn't my way. Force feeding him may be futile but then we
>have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I have to give him pills

Cats can get hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver disease) from not eating at all
for a couple of days, especially overweight ones but it could happen to any
sized cat. How about Temptations treats? Most cats go crazy over those.
The marble sized soft food though is better than nothing at all. Just try
and increase it a bit each time.


Riannon

--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200805/1

Mac Cool
May 27th 08, 05:35 AM
Riannon via CatKB.com:

> Cats can get hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver disease) from not eating
> at all for a couple of days, especially overweight ones but it could
> happen to any sized cat. How about Temptations treats? Most cats go
> crazy over those. The marble sized soft food though is better than
> nothing at all. Just try and increase it a bit each time.

His stomach couldn't handle them right now, he's been 9 days without solid
food. I'm force feeding him concoctions of Nutri-cal & soft cat food. I
realized today that he is no longer drinking water from a bowl but he can
drink dripping water from the faucet just fine. I suspect he is still in
pain when he leans forward, something I'll have to bring up at his follow
up.

Rene S.
May 27th 08, 05:32 PM
On May 26, 11:35*pm, Mac Cool > wrote:
> Riannon via CatKB.com:
>
> > Cats can get hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver disease) from not eating
> > at all for a couple of days, especially overweight ones but it could
> > happen to any sized cat. *How about Temptations treats? *Most cats go
> > crazy over those. The marble sized soft food though is better than
> > nothing at all. *Just try and increase it a bit each time. *
>
> His stomach couldn't handle them right now, he's been 9 days without solid
> food. I'm force feeding him concoctions of Nutri-cal & soft cat food. I
> realized today that he is no longer drinking water from a bowl but he can
> drink dripping water from the faucet just fine. I suspect he is still in
> pain when he leans forward, something I'll have to bring up at his follow
> up.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. Keep trying to get Tommy to
eat, anything at all right now is what's important to get food into
him. I know you said he doesn't like wet food, but have you tried
canned Fancy Feast? A previous vet once told me it's like "Mc Donalds
for cat," and they would recommend it for cats who weren't eating well
(as a short-term diet). As odd as this sounds, have you tried offering
food off of your finger? When my one cat was very ill once, he
wouldn't eat from a bowl, but would eat small globs from my finger.
Time consuming, yes, but at least he was eating.

Best of luck to you and Tommy. I hope he pulls through.

Rene S.
May 27th 08, 05:34 PM
On May 26, 11:35*pm, Mac Cool > wrote:
> Riannon via CatKB.com:
>
> > Cats can get hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver disease) from not eating
> > at all for a couple of days, especially overweight ones but it could
> > happen to any sized cat. *How about Temptations treats? *Most cats go
> > crazy over those. The marble sized soft food though is better than
> > nothing at all. *Just try and increase it a bit each time. *
>
> His stomach couldn't handle them right now, he's been 9 days without solid
> food. I'm force feeding him concoctions of Nutri-cal & soft cat food. I
> realized today that he is no longer drinking water from a bowl but he can
> drink dripping water from the faucet just fine. I suspect he is still in
> pain when he leans forward, something I'll have to bring up at his follow
> up.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. Keep trying to get Tommy to
eat, anything at all right now is what's important to get food into
him. I know you said he doesn't like wet food, but have you tried
canned Fancy Feast? A previous vet once told me it's like "Mc Donalds
for cat," and they would recommend it for cats who weren't eating well
(as a short-term diet). As odd as this sounds, have you tried offering
food off of your finger? When my one cat was very ill once, he
wouldn't eat from a bowl, but would eat small globs from my finger.
Time consuming, yes, but at least he was eating.

Best of luck to you and Tommy. I hope he pulls through.

dgk
May 29th 08, 12:39 PM
On Wed, 28 May 2008 19:12:28 -0400, "cindys"
> wrote:

>
>"Mac Cool" > wrote in message
...
>> If you remember from my thread about Tommy who has a bad heart and just
>> got out of the hospital...
>>
>> Well he isn't the same cat. I mean when I look into his eyes, it's like
>> there is only a shadow of his former self looking back. Hopefully it's
>> temporary but my wife thinks he suffered brain damage, she even asked the
>> vet at the hospital who chuckled at the question and basically said, no.
>> But he is different. This is the first time one of my cats has gone
>> through such a tramatic experience, is it normal to be so different? Tommy
>> was full neurosis before now it's like he's checked out. Maybe it is the
>> medicine. He follows us around and mews like a baby kitten almost but
>> mostly he likes to stay in the bathroom, right now he is lying in the
>> bathtub which he has only done once before when he started getting sick.
>>
>> Also, he is not eating. The vet gave us Mirtazapine, one tablet every
>> three days to increase appetite. It has been one day and he still won't
>> eat. He is drinking and using the litter box but he just sits and looks at
>> his food bowl but doesn't try to eat. He hasn't eaten anything in a week
>> except a little softfood that I pack his pills in. Should I start force
>> feeding him soft food if he doesn't snap out of it by tomorrow?
>----------
>When a cat isn't eating like that, he may be in pain. When Bullwinkle
>stopped eating for a bit, my vet gave me a small dose of narcotic to inject
>(subcutaneous, not intramuscular, so it was easy). Her approach is that if
>the cat starts eating again after having the narcotic, that indicates the
>reason he wasn't eating before is because he was having pain. In the case of
>Bullwinkle, the narcotic did not help, so I knew the reason for his lack of
>appetite wasn't pain. He did start eating again slowly shortly thereafter
>and eventually his normal appetite returned. The reason our vet goes with
>the injectable narcotic right off the bat and does not fool around with
>aspirin or other small pain pills is that she wants to go for the big guns
>right off and not waste time. The narcotic was intended to be diagnostic and
>temporary. If it had worked and he started eating again, she would have
>introduced non-narcotic pain treatment once he had stabilized back into his
>routine.
>Best regards,
>---Cindy S.
>

I wish my doctor would take that approach with me.