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-Lost
June 6th 08, 02:58 PM
Declawed cat vs. Non-declawed cat. Should I worry?

Let me first say, yes, I feel animals have feelings. Most people
like to run their mouth about me worrying too much about my critters
and I have decided I can look way beyond that, considering YOU cat
people are nicer although much more ruthless and blunt.

Phat Kat is the newest addition to the household and is an altered
front-declawed male (around 22 lbs.), whereas Gabby is the altered
non-declawed ******* demon whip that licks at the back of angels*.

* Yep, still drinking Sky vodka and Pure cranberry juice. Whatever.

The dog "group" shredded me to pieces over various reasons, but I
have to ask...

Is it fair to have Gabby, the ferocious 8 or so pounder with claws,
run loose whilst Phat Kat, the mega-kitty (22 lbs or so) is an
absolute "awwwwwwww" waiting to happen -- minus the claws?

In case it was not clear**, Gabby (the meanie) likes to attack Phat
Kat (the softie with no claws in the front) -- should I continue to
swat Gabby away when it is EVIDENT Phat Kat wants no part of Gabby's
"ferocity?"

** I'm drunk. The primary reason I'm brave enough to even post here
after the madness that ensued last time (due mostly in part to my
disability and inability to effectively communicate at times).

I'll say this... despite what you "die hard cat fans" think you know
-- Phat Kat is NOT digging, I repeat, NOT digging Gabby's onslaught.

One last time in case I've royally screwed this post -- which I think
I have -- should I protect my declawed cat from my clawed aggressive
cat?

P.S. Maybe this goes out to those who remember me talking about
Gabby. Gabby is frickin' bad.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

cybercat
June 6th 08, 05:42 PM
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Declawed cat vs. Non-declawed cat. Should I worry?
>
> Let me first say, yes, I feel animals have feelings. Most people
> like to run their mouth about me worrying too much about my critters
> and I have decided I can look way beyond that, considering YOU cat
> people are nicer although much more ruthless and blunt.
>
> Phat Kat is the newest addition to the household and is an altered
> front-declawed male (around 22 lbs.), whereas Gabby is the altered
> non-declawed ******* demon whip that licks at the back of angels*.
>
> * Yep, still drinking Sky vodka and Pure cranberry juice. Whatever.
>
> The dog "group" shredded me to pieces over various reasons, but I
> have to ask...
>
> Is it fair to have Gabby, the ferocious 8 or so pounder with claws,
> run loose whilst Phat Kat, the mega-kitty (22 lbs or so) is an
> absolute "awwwwwwww" waiting to happen -- minus the claws?
>
> In case it was not clear**, Gabby (the meanie) likes to attack Phat
> Kat (the softie with no claws in the front) -- should I continue to
> swat Gabby away when it is EVIDENT Phat Kat wants no part of Gabby's
> "ferocity?"
>
> ** I'm drunk. The primary reason I'm brave enough to even post here
> after the madness that ensued last time (due mostly in part to my
> disability and inability to effectively communicate at times).
>
> I'll say this... despite what you "die hard cat fans" think you know
> -- Phat Kat is NOT digging, I repeat, NOT digging Gabby's onslaught.

Phat Cat has teeth and back claws, right? If Gabby goes too far, I imagine
he will let her know. In the mean time, you should discourage her with
loud NOs and claps when she ****s with him.

And stop being so proud of what a badass she is. Pick her up (with
gloves if you must) and look her dead in the eye and tell her to stop
****ing with Phat Cat. In a stern, non-pussy voice.

CatNipped[_2_]
June 6th 08, 05:55 PM
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Declawed cat vs. Non-declawed cat. Should I worry?
>
> Let me first say, yes, I feel animals have feelings. Most people
> like to run their mouth about me worrying too much about my critters
> and I have decided I can look way beyond that, considering YOU cat
> people are nicer although much more ruthless and blunt.
>
> Phat Kat is the newest addition to the household and is an altered
> front-declawed male (around 22 lbs.), whereas Gabby is the altered
> non-declawed ******* demon whip that licks at the back of angels*.
>
> * Yep, still drinking Sky vodka and Pure cranberry juice. Whatever.
>
> The dog "group" shredded me to pieces over various reasons, but I
> have to ask...
>
> Is it fair to have Gabby, the ferocious 8 or so pounder with claws,
> run loose whilst Phat Kat, the mega-kitty (22 lbs or so) is an
> absolute "awwwwwwww" waiting to happen -- minus the claws?
>
> In case it was not clear**, Gabby (the meanie) likes to attack Phat
> Kat (the softie with no claws in the front) -- should I continue to
> swat Gabby away when it is EVIDENT Phat Kat wants no part of Gabby's
> "ferocity?"

Your swatting Gabby will only make the situation worse - he'll take the
resentment out on Phat Kat and come to fear you... a lose-lose situation. I
doubt that Gabby is hurting Phat Kat, cats' thick hair usually prevent
injuries unless it's a *serious* fight (in which case you should keep them
completely separate and re-start a slow introduction). If it is just
agressive play going on, or even a pecking order being established, your
best course of action is to just stay out of it and let them settle it on
their own (as long as nobody is getting hurt, of course).

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> ** I'm drunk. The primary reason I'm brave enough to even post here
> after the madness that ensued last time (due mostly in part to my
> disability and inability to effectively communicate at times).
>
> I'll say this... despite what you "die hard cat fans" think you know
> -- Phat Kat is NOT digging, I repeat, NOT digging Gabby's onslaught.
>
> One last time in case I've royally screwed this post -- which I think
> I have -- should I protect my declawed cat from my clawed aggressive
> cat?
>
> P.S. Maybe this goes out to those who remember me talking about
> Gabby. Gabby is frickin' bad.
>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

Claude V. Lucas
June 6th 08, 05:59 PM
In article >,
CatNipped > wrote:
>"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
>> Declawed cat vs. Non-declawed cat. Should I worry?
>>
>> Let me first say, yes, I feel animals have feelings. Most people
>> like to run their mouth about me worrying too much about my critters
>> and I have decided I can look way beyond that, considering YOU cat
>> people are nicer although much more ruthless and blunt.
>>
>> Phat Kat is the newest addition to the household and is an altered
>> front-declawed male (around 22 lbs.), whereas Gabby is the altered
>> non-declawed ******* demon whip that licks at the back of angels*.
>>
>> * Yep, still drinking Sky vodka and Pure cranberry juice. Whatever.
>>
>> The dog "group" shredded me to pieces over various reasons, but I
>> have to ask...
>>
>> Is it fair to have Gabby, the ferocious 8 or so pounder with claws,
>> run loose whilst Phat Kat, the mega-kitty (22 lbs or so) is an
>> absolute "awwwwwwww" waiting to happen -- minus the claws?
>>
>> In case it was not clear**, Gabby (the meanie) likes to attack Phat
>> Kat (the softie with no claws in the front) -- should I continue to
>> swat Gabby away when it is EVIDENT Phat Kat wants no part of Gabby's
>> "ferocity?"
>
>Your swatting Gabby will only make the situation worse - he'll take the
>resentment out on Phat Kat and come to fear you... a lose-lose situation. I
>doubt that Gabby is hurting Phat Kat, cats' thick hair usually prevent
>injuries unless it's a *serious* fight (in which case you should keep them
>completely separate and re-start a slow introduction). If it is just
>agressive play going on, or even a pecking order being established, your
>best course of action is to just stay out of it and let them settle it on
>their own (as long as nobody is getting hurt, of course).
>
>Hugs,
>
>CatNipped
>
>>
>> ** I'm drunk. The primary reason I'm brave enough to even post here
>> after the madness that ensued last time (due mostly in part to my
>> disability and inability to effectively communicate at times).
>>
>> I'll say this... despite what you "die hard cat fans" think you know
>> -- Phat Kat is NOT digging, I repeat, NOT digging Gabby's onslaught.
>>
>> One last time in case I've royally screwed this post -- which I think
>> I have -- should I protect my declawed cat from my clawed aggressive
>> cat?
>>
>> P.S. Maybe this goes out to those who remember me talking about
>> Gabby. Gabby is frickin' bad.
>>
>> --
>> -Lost
>> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
>> kidding. No I am not.
>
>

Trim Gabby's claws.

Blunts won't do much if any damage.

-Lost
June 7th 08, 01:51 AM
Response to "cybercat" >:

<snip>

> Phat Cat has teeth and back claws, right?

Yep.

> If Gabby goes too far, I imagine he will let her know.

Gabby's a lad. : ) Remember... we were new to cat genitalia so
named him thinking he was a lass.

> In the mean time, you should discourage her with loud NOs and
> claps when she ****s with him.

Gotcha. I have been "ssss!"-ing him or shaking a pill bottle at
him, but he is back at it in moments.

I feel I should be playing maracas.

> And stop being so proud of what a badass she is. Pick her up (with
> gloves if you must) and look her dead in the eye and tell her to
> stop ****ing with Phat Cat. In a stern, non-pussy voice.

Noted. However... I didn't mean to give the impression I was proud.
I am quite the opposite. Well, maybe I am a tad pleased that he's
tough, but not so proud that it is at the expense of Phat Kat's
possible displeasure.

When Gabby barrels down the hallway for no reason, flies across the
room, lands on the SIDE of the love seat's armrest, and ninja-baboon
jumps another ten feet to land in front of the food bowl in the
kitchen -- I am proud.

When he does the same thing but the landing involves Phat Kat -- I
am not so proud.

Thanks for the advice.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
June 7th 08, 02:24 AM
Response to "CatNipped" >:

<snip>

>> In case it was not clear**, Gabby (the meanie) likes to attack
>> Phat Kat (the softie with no claws in the front) -- should I
>> continue to swat Gabby away when it is EVIDENT Phat Kat wants no
>> part of Gabby's "ferocity?"
>
> Your swatting Gabby will only make the situation worse - he'll
> take the resentment out on Phat Kat and come to fear you... a
> lose-lose situation. I doubt that Gabby is hurting Phat Kat,
> cats' thick hair usually prevent injuries unless it's a *serious*
> fight (in which case you should keep them completely separate and
> re-start a slow introduction). If it is just agressive play going
> on, or even a pecking order being established, your best course of
> action is to just stay out of it and let them settle it on their
> own (as long as nobody is getting hurt, of course).

See? Mark me down for another miscommunication. : P

Instead of swatting I should have said waving my arms or whatnot in
his general region or in his face if I am that close. Like shooing
maybe?

And I do a lot of "ssss!"-ing or pill shaking, but I am going to try
clapping and a loud "non-pussy" yell. ;P

Well, considering you are a mega-ailurophile you probably know
better. What I consider a bit too far is maybe just the pecking
order like you say.

I just know for the time being Phat Kat hides in every little nook
and cranny he can to avoid Gabby and Gabby takes the fight straight
to him. Inevitably Phat Kat leaps up to sit behind me and Gabby
paces the floor in front of me. (I guess knowing that I will not let
him keep up his ****e.)

I am probably over-reacting but it does not seem like a normal tussle
to me.

Thanks for the advice.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
June 7th 08, 02:28 AM
Response to (Claude V. Lucas):

<snip>
> Trim Gabby's claws.
>
> Blunts won't do much if any damage.

Yep, they are! Gabby still manages to hold on to Phat Kat.

Quite literally the first time Gabby and Phat Kat met, Gabby leaped on
Phat Kat's back (having been trimmed before we introduced) -- Phat Kat
tore through the kitchen with Gabby attached.

Thanks for the advice.
--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

Claude V. Lucas
June 7th 08, 02:37 AM
In article >,
-Lost > wrote:
>Response to (Claude V. Lucas):
>
><snip>
>> Trim Gabby's claws.
>>
>> Blunts won't do much if any damage.
>
>Yep, they are! Gabby still manages to hold on to Phat Kat.
>
>Quite literally the first time Gabby and Phat Kat met, Gabby leaped on
>Phat Kat's back (having been trimmed before we introduced) -- Phat Kat
>tore through the kitchen with Gabby attached.
>

Good luck.

I hope the drama amicably resolves itself.

I'd hate to have to go through that with Bubba.

He absolutely detests all other cats.
At least he just hisses and then runs and hides
instead of being aggressive.

-Lost
June 7th 08, 02:53 AM
Response to (Claude V. Lucas):

>><snip>
>>> Trim Gabby's claws.
>>>
>>> Blunts won't do much if any damage.
>>
>>Yep, they are! Gabby still manages to hold on to Phat Kat.
>>
>>Quite literally the first time Gabby and Phat Kat met, Gabby
>>leaped on Phat Kat's back (having been trimmed before we
>>introduced) -- Phat Kat tore through the kitchen with Gabby
>>attached.
>>
>
> Good luck.
>
> I hope the drama amicably resolves itself.

You and me both. : )) Thanks.

> I'd hate to have to go through that with Bubba.
>
> He absolutely detests all other cats.
> At least he just hisses and then runs and hides
> instead of being aggressive.

Bubba == Phat Kat? Seriously, that was Phat Kat to a T.

I hate to laugh (because I feel bad for Phat Kat and what some idiot
and their idiot vet did to him) but it is the funniest ****e seeing a
22 pounder try and shimmy under a couch. He manages though!

I'm just not sure if he detests all cats or if he just remembers
Gabby attacking the snot out of him the first time they met, though.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

Claude V. Lucas
June 7th 08, 03:23 AM
In article >,
-Lost > wrote:
>Response to (Claude V. Lucas):
>
>>><snip>
>>>> Trim Gabby's claws.
>>>>
>>>> Blunts won't do much if any damage.
>>>
>>>Yep, they are! Gabby still manages to hold on to Phat Kat.
>>>
>>>Quite literally the first time Gabby and Phat Kat met, Gabby
>>>leaped on Phat Kat's back (having been trimmed before we
>>>introduced) -- Phat Kat tore through the kitchen with Gabby
>>>attached.
>>>
>>
>> Good luck.
>>
>> I hope the drama amicably resolves itself.
>
>You and me both. : )) Thanks.
>
>> I'd hate to have to go through that with Bubba.
>>
>> He absolutely detests all other cats.
>> At least he just hisses and then runs and hides
>> instead of being aggressive.
>
>Bubba == Phat Kat? Seriously, that was Phat Kat to a T.
>
>I hate to laugh (because I feel bad for Phat Kat and what some idiot
>and their idiot vet did to him) but it is the funniest ****e seeing a
>22 pounder try and shimmy under a couch. He manages though!

He can squeeze his 25 lbs into some amazingly small places.

>
>I'm just not sure if he detests all cats or if he just remembers
>Gabby attacking the snot out of him the first time they met, though.

I'm pretty sure Bubba hates all of them.

A couple of summers ago when I had the door open one of the
neighbor's kittens wandered in, all 8 ounces of him. Bubba
calmly walked over to it and hissed at it from close range.
When it hissed back, he couldn't get behind the couch fast
enough. I didn't think that he could move that quickly...

:^)

-Lost
June 7th 08, 04:11 AM
Response to (Claude V. Lucas):

<snip>

> A couple of summers ago when I had the door open one of the
> neighbor's kittens wandered in, all 8 ounces of him. Bubba
> calmly walked over to it and hissed at it from close range.
> When it hissed back, he couldn't get behind the couch fast
> enough. I didn't think that he could move that quickly...

LOL!!

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

blkcatgal
June 7th 08, 02:42 PM
As you know, I am having the same problems that you are trying to integrate
a new cat into the home. I don't have the declawed/non-declawed issue that
you do (BTW, I don't think that Gabby having claws is going to be a problem
for Phat Cat who has no claws). But I do have the problem of the new cat
stalking and chasing my resident cats...or at least one of them who doesn't
like the new cat. So far, I have dealt with the problem by keeping the cats
separated. But it's been about 2 months now and new cat really wants out
(and I don't blame her). I just don't like how she treats the other cats
when she does get out (so far she has a couple of times and it seems like
WWIII has broken out). Maybe I'm over-reacting and I should just let them
work it out as long as no blood is drawn. But I don't want my resident cat
to end up scared and hiding all the time. I wish he's get a backbone!

Any suggestions????

S.
--
**Visit me and my cats at http://www.island-cats.com/ **
---
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Declawed cat vs. Non-declawed cat. Should I worry?
>
> Let me first say, yes, I feel animals have feelings. Most people
> like to run their mouth about me worrying too much about my critters
> and I have decided I can look way beyond that, considering YOU cat
> people are nicer although much more ruthless and blunt.
>
> Phat Kat is the newest addition to the household and is an altered
> front-declawed male (around 22 lbs.), whereas Gabby is the altered
> non-declawed ******* demon whip that licks at the back of angels*.
>
> * Yep, still drinking Sky vodka and Pure cranberry juice. Whatever.
>
> The dog "group" shredded me to pieces over various reasons, but I
> have to ask...
>
> Is it fair to have Gabby, the ferocious 8 or so pounder with claws,
> run loose whilst Phat Kat, the mega-kitty (22 lbs or so) is an
> absolute "awwwwwwww" waiting to happen -- minus the claws?
>
> In case it was not clear**, Gabby (the meanie) likes to attack Phat
> Kat (the softie with no claws in the front) -- should I continue to
> swat Gabby away when it is EVIDENT Phat Kat wants no part of Gabby's
> "ferocity?"
>
> ** I'm drunk. The primary reason I'm brave enough to even post here
> after the madness that ensued last time (due mostly in part to my
> disability and inability to effectively communicate at times).
>
> I'll say this... despite what you "die hard cat fans" think you know
> -- Phat Kat is NOT digging, I repeat, NOT digging Gabby's onslaught.
>
> One last time in case I've royally screwed this post -- which I think
> I have -- should I protect my declawed cat from my clawed aggressive
> cat?
>
> P.S. Maybe this goes out to those who remember me talking about
> Gabby. Gabby is frickin' bad.
>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

cshenk
June 8th 08, 09:17 PM
"-Lost" wrote

> Declawed cat vs. Non-declawed cat. Should I worry?

Not really. Done it myself (rescued 2 de-clawed cats).

> The dog "group" shredded me to pieces over various reasons, but I
> have to ask...

That 'dog group' is probably the one I left. Very rude people, very much a
'click'. Not at all helpful, unlike folks here.

> Is it fair to have Gabby, the ferocious 8 or so pounder with claws,
> run loose whilst Phat Kat, the mega-kitty (22 lbs or so) is an
> absolute "awwwwwwww" waiting to happen -- minus the claws?

Smile, sounds like Thom (25lbs declawed) and Roscoe (6.5 lbs, mostly claw
weight it seemed!). One day Thom got tired of it and sat on Roscoe.
Situation solved.

Unlike your Phat Kat, Thom had been fully de-clawed (back and front).

-Lost
June 8th 08, 11:06 PM
Response to "blkcatgal" >:

<snip>

> As you know, I am having the same problems that you are trying to
> integrate a new cat into the home. I don't have the
> declawed/non-declawed issue that you do (BTW, I don't think that
> Gabby having claws is going to be a problem for Phat Cat who has
> no claws). But I do have the problem of the new cat stalking and
> chasing my resident cats...or at least one of them who doesn't
> like the new cat. So far, I have dealt with the problem by
> keeping the cats separated. But it's been about 2 months now and
> new cat really wants out (and I don't blame her). I just don't
> like how she treats the other cats when she does get out (so far
> she has a couple of times and it seems like WWIII has broken out).
> Maybe I'm over-reacting and I should just let them work it out as
> long as no blood is drawn. But I don't want my resident cat to
> end up scared and hiding all the time. I wish he's get a
> backbone!

That's my problem! I understand the whole "animal kingdom" concept,
but sheesh -- sometimes it just seems excessive.

And like your resident, Phat Kat -- so far -- does NOT play with
Gabby. He merely defends. Not once has he initiated play and for
the most part stays buried behind the desk or couch when Gabby is
prowling.

I still question whether or not it is completely normal, but as usual
I heed the advice of those here (for the sake of my kitties) for the
time being.

> Any suggestions????

Me?! I wish. All I can say is good luck and if I ever run across a
pouch of faerie dust I'll be more than happy to share.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
June 8th 08, 11:11 PM
Response to "cshenk" >:

>> Declawed cat vs. Non-declawed cat. Should I worry?
>
> Not really. Done it myself (rescued 2 de-clawed cats).

Another vote helps. I was just commenting how it still seems a bit
savage at times, but I am listening to the majority vote.

>> The dog "group" shredded me to pieces over various reasons, but I
>> have to ask...
>
> That 'dog group' is probably the one I left. Very rude people,
> very much a 'click'. Not at all helpful, unlike folks here.

Sounds like it. A bunch of harpies I tell ya'. More worried about
correcting my grammar than addressing the nonsense my puppies were
going through at the time.

>> Is it fair to have Gabby, the ferocious 8 or so pounder with
>> claws, run loose whilst Phat Kat, the mega-kitty (22 lbs or so)
>> is an absolute "awwwwwwww" waiting to happen -- minus the claws?
>
> Smile, sounds like Thom (25lbs declawed) and Roscoe (6.5 lbs,
> mostly claw weight it seemed!). One day Thom got tired of it and
> sat on Roscoe. Situation solved.
>
> Unlike your Phat Kat, Thom had been fully de-clawed (back and
> front).

HAHA! I sure wish I could have shown Phat Kat a picture of that
scenario.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
June 8th 08, 11:53 PM
Response to "-Lost" >:

>> Any suggestions????
>
> Me?! I wish. All I can say is good luck and if I ever run across
> a pouch of faerie dust I'll be more than happy to share.

I am terribly sorry, I just realized I do have a suggestion! Here's
what I've been doing.

For a couple of weeks I kept Phat Kat behind a closed door that we
had modified so it had less bottom. This enabled Phat Kat to put
his head on the floor and look at us from down the hallway.

Then after a time we switch. Gabby would go in his kennel and Phat
Kat roamed free.

Gabby and Phat Kat had continual hissing conversations through the
door. And they batted at each other constantly.

Then I put a HUGE pile of treats on the floor where Phat Kat could
almost touch them with his mouth and Gabby had to "pull" them to him
under the door.

For a couple more weeks I had Gabby's carrier sitting right in the
middle of wherever Phat Kat had to be. Generally the middle of the
living room or the middle of the kitchen.

After that immersion therapy I decided (about 2, maybe 3 days now)
they should be out together again for the first time in about four
or five weeks I think.

***

Now on to the behavior.

They appear fine for about 10% of the time. Moments where both are
laying there sleeping or walking about ignoring each other.

The other 90% of the time Gabby is interested only in messing with
Phat Kat.

He cannot eat in peace, poop in peace, nor lay on the back of a
couch in peace unless it is the one I am sitting at and Phat Kat
sits behind me.

And when they tangle, they TANGLE. I am often reminded of the ball
of dust you see in cartoons (Tom and Jerry?) where you randomly see
a paw, tail, or head poke out from the melee.

***

And no, no magic cure yet. Every now and again though, Gabby needs
to be kenneled because he gets into this ape-**** ninja-baboon ****e
where he bounces off of everything and postures at everyone
(including our rabbit, our pig, our puppies, our ferrets, and Phat
Kat). Time out for crazy-kitty.

Good luck kiddo!

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

blkcatgal
June 9th 08, 02:23 AM
Thanks for your suggestions. I've got one question. When you say you had
Gabby's kennel in the room where Phat Cat was, was Gabby in the kennel at
this time? How did Phat Cat react? How did Gabby react? How big is the
kennel? Are you talking about a carrier? How long did you leave the kennel
out? I've been thinking about setting up a cage in the family room and
putting the new cat in there for a while so the other cats can see her and
vice versa. I'm just concerned how the new cat will react being in a cage
when the other cats are not. Also, trying to get the resident cats to go
near the cage when she's in it may be an issue. Right now, my one cat (the
one that isn't getting along with new cat) will not go near the door to the
room she is in and will run from her when he sees her.

But the cage may be my next step.

Thanks again.

S.

"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Response to "-Lost" >:
>
>>> Any suggestions????
>>
>> Me?! I wish. All I can say is good luck and if I ever run across
>> a pouch of faerie dust I'll be more than happy to share.
>
> I am terribly sorry, I just realized I do have a suggestion! Here's
> what I've been doing.
>
> For a couple of weeks I kept Phat Kat behind a closed door that we
> had modified so it had less bottom. This enabled Phat Kat to put
> his head on the floor and look at us from down the hallway.
>
> Then after a time we switch. Gabby would go in his kennel and Phat
> Kat roamed free.
>
> Gabby and Phat Kat had continual hissing conversations through the
> door. And they batted at each other constantly.
>
> Then I put a HUGE pile of treats on the floor where Phat Kat could
> almost touch them with his mouth and Gabby had to "pull" them to him
> under the door.
>
> For a couple more weeks I had Gabby's carrier sitting right in the
> middle of wherever Phat Kat had to be. Generally the middle of the
> living room or the middle of the kitchen.
>
> After that immersion therapy I decided (about 2, maybe 3 days now)
> they should be out together again for the first time in about four
> or five weeks I think.
>
> ***
>
> Now on to the behavior.
>
> They appear fine for about 10% of the time. Moments where both are
> laying there sleeping or walking about ignoring each other.
>
> The other 90% of the time Gabby is interested only in messing with
> Phat Kat.
>
> He cannot eat in peace, poop in peace, nor lay on the back of a
> couch in peace unless it is the one I am sitting at and Phat Kat
> sits behind me.
>
> And when they tangle, they TANGLE. I am often reminded of the ball
> of dust you see in cartoons (Tom and Jerry?) where you randomly see
> a paw, tail, or head poke out from the melee.
>
> ***
>
> And no, no magic cure yet. Every now and again though, Gabby needs
> to be kenneled because he gets into this ape-**** ninja-baboon ****e
> where he bounces off of everything and postures at everyone
> (including our rabbit, our pig, our puppies, our ferrets, and Phat
> Kat). Time out for crazy-kitty.
>
> Good luck kiddo!
>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

CatNipped[_2_]
June 9th 08, 03:47 PM
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Response to "CatNipped" >:
>
> <snip>
>
>>> In case it was not clear**, Gabby (the meanie) likes to attack
>>> Phat Kat (the softie with no claws in the front) -- should I
>>> continue to swat Gabby away when it is EVIDENT Phat Kat wants no
>>> part of Gabby's "ferocity?"
>>
>> Your swatting Gabby will only make the situation worse - he'll
>> take the resentment out on Phat Kat and come to fear you... a
>> lose-lose situation. I doubt that Gabby is hurting Phat Kat,
>> cats' thick hair usually prevent injuries unless it's a *serious*
>> fight (in which case you should keep them completely separate and
>> re-start a slow introduction). If it is just agressive play going
>> on, or even a pecking order being established, your best course of
>> action is to just stay out of it and let them settle it on their
>> own (as long as nobody is getting hurt, of course).
>
> See? Mark me down for another miscommunication. : P
>
> Instead of swatting I should have said waving my arms or whatnot in
> his general region or in his face if I am that close. Like shooing
> maybe?
>
> And I do a lot of "ssss!"-ing or pill shaking, but I am going to try
> clapping and a loud "non-pussy" yell. ;P
>
> Well, considering you are a mega-ailurophile you probably know
> better. What I consider a bit too far is maybe just the pecking
> order like you say.
>
> I just know for the time being Phat Kat hides in every little nook
> and cranny he can to avoid Gabby and Gabby takes the fight straight
> to him. Inevitably Phat Kat leaps up to sit behind me and Gabby
> paces the floor in front of me. (I guess knowing that I will not let
> him keep up his ****e.)
>
> I am probably over-reacting but it does not seem like a normal tussle
> to me.
>
> Thanks for the advice.

You're the one there witnessing the situation, so go with your gut feeling.
If you think Gabby is terrorizing Phat Kat then it might be a good idea to
completely separate them and start the introduction process all over again.
MaryL has a great page about how she introduced Duffy to Holly - if you ping
her I'm sure she'll post the link to it for you.

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
June 9th 08, 10:35 PM
Response to "blkcatgal" >:

> Thanks for your suggestions. I've got one question.

Nuh uh. : P

> When you say
> you had Gabby's kennel in the room where Phat Cat was, was Gabby
> in the kennel at this time?

Yes.

> How did Phat Cat react?

Completely ignored him.

Phat Kat is seriously overweight and since Gabby was not covered in
kibble I really do not think he noticed him. (Or cared.)


> How did
> Gabby react?

Rowwwwwwwwwwwrrrrr...

Rooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwrrrrrrrrrrr...

ROWR!!

ROWR!!

Something like that.

> How big is the kennel?

~22" long, ~16" tall.

> Are you talking about a carrier?

Welcome to the world of my miscommunication, sorry.

Yes, it is a carrier.

> How long did you leave the kennel out?

For the last week, maybe week and a half he stayed out in the open
in the middle of things non-stop.

Only when it was bedtime would we take the carrier back to the
computer room (where they slept side-by-side in carriers).

> I've been
> thinking about setting up a cage in the family room and putting
> the new cat in there for a while so the other cats can see her and
> vice versa. I'm just concerned how the new cat will react being
> in a cage when the other cats are not.

I could be missing something -- but does it really matter if she
reacts?

I mean, she's safe, the resident is safe. Besides stress (which is
bad, yes, but...) I do not see a major problem. The way I saw it
was that they were forced to confront each other without having to
CONFRONT each other, ya' know?

> Also, trying to get the
> resident cats to go near the cage when she's in it may be an
> issue.

Again, I do not see an issue because the new lass does not call the
shots (aka "cannot go after the resident") and eventually they will
come out of hiding.

I also made sure the food bowl was not far from the carrier -- but
that was because Phat Kat has 4 primary concerns.

1. Eating.
2. Dropping #2's like a 50lb. dog.
3. Sleeping.
4. Shedding.

Maybe #5 would be non-stop petting. He cannot get enough.

> Right now, my one cat (the one that isn't getting along
> with new cat) will not go near the door to the room she is in and
> will run from her when he sees her.
>
> But the cage may be my next step.

Well, you can always try it out for a week or two -- and I am
thinking at LEAST a week or two, otherwise a day or two he'll just
avoid the situation. A week or more makes him HAVE to see her.

The added benefit (again) is that she cannot take off after him and
he should learn she's "shackled."

> Thanks again.

IF any of this assists your situation, then you are most welcome.

Good luck!!

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
June 9th 08, 10:39 PM
Response to "CatNipped" >:

<snip>

> You're the one there witnessing the situation, so go with your gut
> feeling. If you think Gabby is terrorizing Phat Kat then it might
> be a good idea to completely separate them and start the
> introduction process all over again. MaryL has a great page about
> how she introduced Duffy to Holly - if you ping her I'm sure
> she'll post the link to it for you.

Exactly. I just didn't want to take everyone down "-Lost is
overreacting again"-lane or something. This time instead of hopping
immediately on here and ranting about how bad Gabby behaved, I let
this go for a few days.

Hopefully I am more on track this time. Even after ~8 months with
Gabby and almost 2 with Phat Kat, I still feel like I have not even
read the first page on cats.

Thanks for the advice. I'll do that now!

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

cshenk
June 9th 08, 11:14 PM
"-Lost" wrote

>>> Declawed cat vs. Non-declawed cat. Should I worry?
>>
>> Not really. Done it myself (rescued 2 de-clawed cats).
>
> Another vote helps. I was just commenting how it still seems a bit
> savage at times, but I am listening to the majority vote.

It works. But one thing is disturbing me in multiple threads here. See,
you really need to pay attention to the nature of the cat. Sometimes, you
really can't get a cat to adjust to another cat. Pretending otherwise 'aint
gonna cut it'.

Dont give up too soon, but if after 3 months you still have to lock one of
them up, it's not a good sign.

I hate to say it but at that satge, it's time to find a new home for the
offender (or the new one, depends).

I had to give up Babe. She just clearly was never going to be happy in a 4
cat house. She was rescued with Thom (same bad declaw job on all 4 paws)
and it took me 1 month to find her a good home. In the end though both she,
and the other 3 cats were happier.

I can see in Daisy the same 'wanna be an only cat' and know from experience
to not add another here. She likes a dog though as a pet mate.

Some cats are very terratorial. This tends to be reinforced strongly if
they have a somewhat feral background (read: Abandoned for a significant
period of time).

>>> The dog "group" shredded me to pieces over various reasons, but I
>>> have to ask...
>>
>> That 'dog group' is probably the one I left. Very rude people,
>> very much a 'click'. Not at all helpful, unlike folks here.
>
> Sounds like it. A bunch of harpies I tell ya'. More worried about
> correcting my grammar than addressing the nonsense my puppies were
> going through at the time.

Yeah, they got upset at me because I mentioned a neighbor who does a little
small time breeding on the side. Nothing I said could get it through their
thick heads that these folks were not a puppy farm of the worst sort. They
seem to believe only in large scale breeders and breeding a dog once only in
her life. They disagree with folks who use SPCA and sites like that for
information. Got a *huge* load of extremely bad and actually dangerous
'advice' there but fortunately my vet reads there quietly and said I was
right to question them and to keep to my stance of following the vet and
educating myself on reputable pages.

They were telling me to feed an obviously underweight dog 1/4 cup twice a
day. This for a 50lb dog who's bottom 8 ribs were *very* obviously
countable when standing up. Cash is doing fine, and is now bulking out well
with muscles at 55lbs. He gets 1 cup in morning, and 1 in evening. Because
he's a mixed breed (vet's guess is beagle and bull mastiff) he isnt pure
anything but fun <g>. Just like humans with a higher muscle ratio, he eats
more to maintain that.

I can finally not count his ribs when laying down, though I can see a slight
ripple. I can see muscles cropping up along his back shoulders. When I was
asking in the 'dog place' he was 35 lbs. I kept telling them he was
underweight and they kept telling me to feed him less.

Grin, nuff on my dog and back to kitties <Grin>.

>>> Is it fair to have Gabby, the ferocious 8 or so pounder with
>>> claws, run loose whilst Phat Kat, the mega-kitty (22 lbs or so)
>>> is an absolute "awwwwwwww" waiting to happen -- minus the claws?
>>
>> Smile, sounds like Thom (25lbs declawed) and Roscoe (6.5 lbs,
>> mostly claw weight it seemed!). One day Thom got tired of it and
>> sat on Roscoe. Situation solved.
>>
>> Unlike your Phat Kat, Thom had been fully de-clawed (back and
>> front).
>
> HAHA! I sure wish I could have shown Phat Kat a picture of that
> scenario.

It was pretty classic! Thom just 'had enough' one day. Now, Thom was a
very placid fellow. Not much would bother him and his feet hurt too bad to
jump about much. So, Roscoe and Face would run about having 'pussy wars'
and jumping over him and occasionally bug him. Face and Roscoe learned in
the first *2 days* to not claw him (like most, he bit if harassed as it was
all he had left, very common for declawed cats).

Well one day they decided to use him as bunker wall to war over the top of
and he just wasnt gonna take it no more! He bit Face on the tail (not
breaking skin, it was a warning shot) then sat on Roscoe.

I was laughing so hard! I almost couldnt pick up Thom to get him off Roscoe
without peeing on the carpet. Poor Roscoe! Just looking miffed and
smushed, scrabbling to get out from under that big fat ass... Face charged
in to rescue Roscoe a moment later and he dropped his chest right on her,
pinning her down too.

Ok, I admit it. I peed on the carpet at that point. It was the *perfect*
come-uppance!

-Lost
June 10th 08, 12:31 AM
Response to "cshenk" >:

>>>> Declawed cat vs. Non-declawed cat. Should I worry?
>>>
>>> Not really. Done it myself (rescued 2 de-clawed cats).
>>
>> Another vote helps. I was just commenting how it still seems a
>> bit savage at times, but I am listening to the majority vote.
>
> It works. But one thing is disturbing me in multiple threads
> here. See, you really need to pay attention to the nature of the
> cat. Sometimes, you really can't get a cat to adjust to another
> cat. Pretending otherwise 'aint gonna cut it'.
>
> Dont give up too soon, but if after 3 months you still have to
> lock one of them up, it's not a good sign.
>
> I hate to say it but at that satge, it's time to find a new home
> for the offender (or the new one, depends).

I TOTALLY agree. I just had not decided on a suitable time frame --
3 months sounds about right.

This is the 4th day (I think) that they have been out together, and
while still crazy as hell I think the 90/10% ratio of frenzy/sleep is
more like 75/25 now.

<snip>

> Some cats are very terratorial. This tends to be reinforced
> strongly if they have a somewhat feral background (read:
> Abandoned for a significant period of time).

Gabby still has this temperament occasionally where I call him an
"ape-**** ninja-baboon." He gets this weird look in his eyes, they
twitch constantly, and his back ripples wildly.

We carpeted the walls and ceiling of the entire hallway -- when he
gets in that mood he will run up the wall and leap off onto
passerby's.

This includes EVERYONE. My mother, my daughters, the spouse, the
puppies, the ferrets, the rabbit, and the pig.

No catnip involved, no roughhousing, no nothing -- just look over and
he is going crazy.

It's really funny to watch until you are the one he pounces on.

>>>> The dog "group" shredded me to pieces over various reasons, but
>>>> I have to ask...
>>>
>>> That 'dog group' is probably the one I left. Very rude people,
>>> very much a 'click'. Not at all helpful, unlike folks here.
>>
>> Sounds like it. A bunch of harpies I tell ya'. More worried
>> about correcting my grammar than addressing the nonsense my
>> puppies were going through at the time.
>
> Yeah, they got upset at me because I mentioned a neighbor who does
> a little small time breeding on the side. Nothing I said could
> get it through their thick heads that these folks were not a puppy
> farm of the worst sort. They seem to believe only in large scale
> breeders and breeding a dog once only in her life. They disagree
> with folks who use SPCA and sites like that for information. Got
> a *huge* load of extremely bad and actually dangerous 'advice'
> there but fortunately my vet reads there quietly and said I was
> right to question them and to keep to my stance of following the
> vet and educating myself on reputable pages.

Yep, heard that same story before. Breeders == EVIL. Period.

> They were telling me to feed an obviously underweight dog 1/4 cup
> twice a day. This for a 50lb dog who's bottom 8 ribs were *very*
> obviously countable when standing up. Cash is doing fine, and is
> now bulking out well with muscles at 55lbs. He gets 1 cup in
> morning, and 1 in evening. Because he's a mixed breed (vet's
> guess is beagle and bull mastiff) he isnt pure anything but fun
> <g>. Just like humans with a higher muscle ratio, he eats more to
> maintain that.

<snip>

They continually told me to seek a vet's advice. That was about it.
I told them I was not an idiot, I had already done that.

That was my 2nd mistake. 1st mistake was going there in the first
place.

> Grin, nuff on my dog and back to kitties <Grin>.

Don't feel bad. My house is a barnyard and like in this post, I am
liable to talk about everyone at least once in a while.

<snip>

> I was laughing so hard! I almost couldnt pick up Thom to get him
> off Roscoe without peeing on the carpet. Poor Roscoe! Just
> looking miffed and smushed, scrabbling to get out from under that
> big fat ass... Face charged in to rescue Roscoe a moment later
> and he dropped his chest right on her, pinning her down too.
>
> Ok, I admit it. I peed on the carpet at that point. It was the
> *perfect* come-uppance!

ROFLMAO!!

After 4 children, I feel your pain. To boot, I have a seriously
funny spouse and even funnier critters. The result? I own a lot of
undergarments for midday changings.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

blkcatgal
June 10th 08, 01:17 AM
Thanks! I'm trying the cage thing right now. Got new cat in cage...she's
not happy! Resident cat is keeping his distance, but he is curious. Other
resident cat who seems to get along okay with new cat is trying to play with
her through the cage. She's not interested. I'm trying to ply them with
treats....make it a "good experience." New cat isn't having it....but
she'll come around. She can't pass up a treat.

I'll keep you posted.

S.


"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Response to "blkcatgal" >:
>
>> Thanks for your suggestions. I've got one question.
>
> Nuh uh. : P
>
>> When you say
>> you had Gabby's kennel in the room where Phat Cat was, was Gabby
>> in the kennel at this time?
>
> Yes.
>
>> How did Phat Cat react?
>
> Completely ignored him.
>
> Phat Kat is seriously overweight and since Gabby was not covered in
> kibble I really do not think he noticed him. (Or cared.)
>
>
>> How did
>> Gabby react?
>
> Rowwwwwwwwwwwrrrrr...
>
> Rooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwrrrrrrrrrrr...
>
> ROWR!!
>
> ROWR!!
>
> Something like that.
>
>> How big is the kennel?
>
> ~22" long, ~16" tall.
>
>> Are you talking about a carrier?
>
> Welcome to the world of my miscommunication, sorry.
>
> Yes, it is a carrier.
>
>> How long did you leave the kennel out?
>
> For the last week, maybe week and a half he stayed out in the open
> in the middle of things non-stop.
>
> Only when it was bedtime would we take the carrier back to the
> computer room (where they slept side-by-side in carriers).
>
>> I've been
>> thinking about setting up a cage in the family room and putting
>> the new cat in there for a while so the other cats can see her and
>> vice versa. I'm just concerned how the new cat will react being
>> in a cage when the other cats are not.
>
> I could be missing something -- but does it really matter if she
> reacts?
>
> I mean, she's safe, the resident is safe. Besides stress (which is
> bad, yes, but...) I do not see a major problem. The way I saw it
> was that they were forced to confront each other without having to
> CONFRONT each other, ya' know?
>
>> Also, trying to get the
>> resident cats to go near the cage when she's in it may be an
>> issue.
>
> Again, I do not see an issue because the new lass does not call the
> shots (aka "cannot go after the resident") and eventually they will
> come out of hiding.
>
> I also made sure the food bowl was not far from the carrier -- but
> that was because Phat Kat has 4 primary concerns.
>
> 1. Eating.
> 2. Dropping #2's like a 50lb. dog.
> 3. Sleeping.
> 4. Shedding.
>
> Maybe #5 would be non-stop petting. He cannot get enough.
>
>> Right now, my one cat (the one that isn't getting along
>> with new cat) will not go near the door to the room she is in and
>> will run from her when he sees her.
>>
>> But the cage may be my next step.
>
> Well, you can always try it out for a week or two -- and I am
> thinking at LEAST a week or two, otherwise a day or two he'll just
> avoid the situation. A week or more makes him HAVE to see her.
>
> The added benefit (again) is that she cannot take off after him and
> he should learn she's "shackled."
>
>> Thanks again.
>
> IF any of this assists your situation, then you are most welcome.
>
> Good luck!!
>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
June 10th 08, 09:15 AM
Response to "blkcatgal" >:

> Thanks! I'm trying the cage thing right now. Got new cat in
> cage...she's not happy!

She'll be alright. : P

> Resident cat is keeping his distance, but
> he is curious.

And that is what starts the healing process. : )

> Other resident cat who seems to get along okay
> with new cat is trying to play with her through the cage. She's
> not interested.

Better than being scared (of her) -- and she'll eventually come
around.

> I'm trying to ply them with treats....make it a
> "good experience." New cat isn't having it....but she'll come
> around. She can't pass up a treat.
>
> I'll keep you posted.

Please do!

I spent a LOT of money on the treats that work. And Phat Kat and
Gabby did the same thing...

....they adore treats, ADORE them... but at first ignored them.
Yesterday, I had their faces maybe 3-4 inches from each other as they
nibbled on "Pounce (Cat Treats) - Moist - Chicken Flavor."

Oh yeah... better believe I had the chills creeping up my back and
tears welling up in my eyes. (It actually explains the celebration
Vodka. ; ))

I would spend double what I do now on the 2 weeks of "treat-play" I
have been doing. Probably $30 USD a week -- each container is 3oz
(85g) at about $4 USD and I have bought 13 (on the last one now) in
the past 2 weeks (since May 25). So yeah, I would pay $60 a week.

If the kitties have a medical emergency though, I hope they can take
kitty treats for it. : P (JOKE!)

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
June 10th 08, 09:18 AM
Response to "-Lost" >:

>> Other resident cat who seems to get along okay
>> with new cat is trying to play with her through the cage. She's
>> not interested.
>
> Better than being scared (of her) -- and she'll eventually come
> around.

Ugh, I frickin' hate responding to your own post but something struck
me and I am too inebriated to decipher its importance.

Someone recently mentioned a lot about retraining cats. I believe
cats can be trained.

I also believe it is ONE HELL OF A TASK to achieve.

Take that how you perceive it. ; )

Good luck, kiddo!

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

CatNipped[_2_]
June 10th 08, 02:19 PM
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Response to "CatNipped" >:
>
> <snip>
>
>> You're the one there witnessing the situation, so go with your gut
>> feeling. If you think Gabby is terrorizing Phat Kat then it might
>> be a good idea to completely separate them and start the
>> introduction process all over again. MaryL has a great page about
>> how she introduced Duffy to Holly - if you ping her I'm sure
>> she'll post the link to it for you.
>
> Exactly. I just didn't want to take everyone down "-Lost is
> overreacting again"-lane or something. This time instead of hopping
> immediately on here and ranting about how bad Gabby behaved, I let
> this go for a few days.
>
> Hopefully I am more on track this time. Even after ~8 months with
> Gabby and almost 2 with Phat Kat, I still feel like I have not even
> read the first page on cats.
>
> Thanks for the advice. I'll do that now!

I've been owned by cats for 56+ years and I still don't feel like I have
scratched the surface of their mysterious ways. For one thing, every cat is
different with his own quirks and temperment - I've never had two cats
exactly alike.

As for as Gabby terrorizing Phat Kat, I would tend to err on the side of
caution and not let this go on if it's more than just dominance "posing"
(which is usually just a bit of hissing and maybe a swat or two to establish
who's boss). If you follow MaryL's advice you should have them interacting
as best buddies.

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.