PDA

View Full Version : Is fat good for bad kidneys?


jjg
June 7th 08, 05:33 PM
My 14 yo tomcat has a problem. He has been diagnosed by the vet, and he (the
vet) recommends less protein. And of course, our cat, being a real cat,
does not like potatoes, or vegetables, ... we have found some nutrients
which he accepts sometimes, if we mix them with a good amount of protein...
and then we hope that it works.

There may be another way: fat. He does like fat. I am not sure, however,
that that saves his kidneys. I seem to remember that dealing with fat is a
function of the liver/bile, so maybe that would be something he would eat
without damaging his kidneys. But, then, which fat? He doesn't like butter,
I've tried that. He is fond of herring (but that contains some salt, which
is bad for his kidneys). Is fat a good idea, and if so, can anyone give a
suggestion?

Riannon via CatKB.com
June 7th 08, 07:29 PM
jjg wrote:
>My 14 yo tomcat has a problem. He has been diagnosed by the vet, and he (the
>vet) recommends less protein. And of course, our cat, being a real cat,
>does not like potatoes, or vegetables, ... we have found some nutrients
>which he accepts sometimes, if we mix them with a good amount of protein...
>and then we hope that it works.


There is food at the vet that you can buy for kidney disease; my crf cat has
been eating it for the past 6 years. Try felinecrf.org and felinecrf.com -
they'll tell you everything there is to know about this disease and
treatments. You could also join Feline-CRF-Support Group.
Hope this helps,


Riannon

--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200806/1

jjg
June 8th 08, 09:43 AM
Riannon via CatKB.com wrote:

> jjg wrote:
>>My 14 yo tomcat has a problem. He has been diagnosed by the vet, and he
>>(the vet) recommends less protein. And of course, our cat, being a real
>>cat, does not like potatoes, or vegetables, ... we have found some
>>nutrients which he accepts sometimes, if we mix them with a good amount of
>>protein... and then we hope that it works.
>
>
> There is food at the vet that you can buy for kidney disease; my crf cat
> has
> been eating it for the past 6 years. Try felinecrf.org and felinecrf.com
> - they'll tell you everything there is to know about this disease and
> treatments. You could also join Feline-CRF-Support Group.
> Hope this helps,
>
>
> Riannon
>
Thanks. I'll try that.

Phil P.
June 8th 08, 12:28 PM
"jjg" > wrote in message
...
> My 14 yo tomcat has a problem. He has been diagnosed by the vet, and he
(the
> vet) recommends less protein.

Your vet is about 10 years behind current research in cats with CRF. Sounds
like he's been educated in CRF by a pet food manufacturer's rep so he'll
push renal diets on his clients. The knee-jerk practice of restricting
protein in CRF cats was based on outdated studies in Fischer rats that are
genetically predisposed to develop CRF as they get older. Its now known
that the things that speed up the progression of CRF in the rat don't have
the same effect in the cat.

Restricting protein too early in cats with CRF can have some deleterious
effects--e.g., impaired immunological response and resistance to infection,
reduced hemoglobin production and anemia, decreased plasma protein levels,
and muscle wasting. Protein restriction also decreases renal
ammoniagenesis- which in turn decreases renal acid excretion. That's why so
many CRF.cats on low-protein diets become nauseous and anorexic and need
antacids and appetite stimulants. Restricting protein also slows down GFR
and causes uremic toxins to build up in the blood- the very thing
low-protein diets are supposedly designed to reduce!

You shouldn't restrict a cat's protein intake until the BUN reaches 65-85
mg/dl. The only things you want to decrease are phosphorus and acid intake.
Diets that are designed to treat calcium oxalate are ideal for cats with CRF
because they are lower in phosphorus and acid yet provide optimum protein
levels. My 23 year-old made a *dramatic* turn around after I switched her
over from k/d to c/d-oxl. When Hill's changed the formula, I switched her
from c/d -oxl to IamsVeterinary Formula Urinary=O - Moderate pH/O and she's
doing even better! I hate P&G but I'm not going to hurt my cat to spite
Iams.

The most important things you want to increase are potassium and omega-3
fatty acids (from fish only- not plant material). Since I've been giving my
23 year-old potassium and omega-3 supplements, her BUN/Cr. have come *down*
to high normal to a tad above, and her USG has *increased* from 1.010 to
1.027!

Best of luck,

Phil

jjg
June 8th 08, 07:21 PM
cindys wrote:
[quite a bit of good advice, which I will digest, and hopefully my cat will
too..]

Thanks a lot. We will try everything to keep him (it's a male, yes) in good
condition!

jjg
June 8th 08, 07:41 PM
<posted & mailed>

jjg wrote:

> cindys wrote:
> [quite a bit of good advice, which I will digest, and hopefully my cat
> [will
> too..]
>
> Thanks a lot. We will try everything to keep him (it's a male, yes) in
> good condition!

And just another thing-- we tried dog food, and for some reason he likes it.
In fact, I liked the smell much better than that of the usual cat food...
and sure, I hate dogs! But if our cat eats anything, it's OK with me :-)
Just wondering: is dog food Good or Bad for cats?

Phil P.
June 12th 08, 03:47 AM
"cindys" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > "jjg" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> My 14 yo tomcat has a problem. He has been diagnosed by the vet, and he
> > (the
> >> vet) recommends less protein.
> >
> > Your vet is about 10 years behind current research in cats with CRF.
> > Sounds
> > like he's been educated in CRF by a pet food manufacturer's rep so he'll
> > push renal diets on his clients. The knee-jerk practice of restricting
> > protein in CRF cats was based on outdated studies in Fischer rats that
are
> > genetically predisposed to develop CRF as they get older. Its now known
> > that the things that speed up the progression of CRF in the rat don't
have
> > the same effect in the cat.
> -------
> I agree with you Phil (not that you need me to grant you credibility).
When
> Alex was diagnosed with CRF, my vet at the time also tried to push the low
> protein thing. No way Jose. Cats are obligate carnivores and need protein.
> So, I searched for a canned food that had an average protein content (not
> high, not low) but with low phosphorous. Believe it or not, one of the
foods
> that fit the bill was Science Diet Senior beef and chicken flavors. It's
> garbage food (in my opinion), but it fit the bill. Another one I used was
> called NaturalLife (a good quality organic food. The chicken flavor had
the
> lowest phosphorus content. Alex preferred the fish flavor which was still
> quite low in phophorus). Wysong is very high quality food and fits the
bill.
> Unfortunately, Alex didn't like it (but the OP's cat may). Here is a
website
> that will enable the OP to compare canned foods for protein and phosphorus
> content. He should try for average protein but low phosphorus.
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm
>
> and
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canned.htm
>
> The second weblink is supposedly "updated" but there are different foods
> listed on each one. The OP should avoid dry food entirely if at all
possible
> (no matter what the vet says because canned food provides the water
> necessary for proper kidney function, which is not matched by what the cat
> is drinking from the water bowl). Alex still wanted the dry food, so I
gave
> him a small amount (in addition to the canned food) following the same
> guidelines and picked average protein, low phosphorus dry food. Following
> the same process as outlined above, check out:
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dry.htm
>
> and
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dryfood.htm
>
> I ended up going with one of the Royal Canin indoor formulas and
NaturalLife
> (which also makes a dry food).
>
> Another thing the OP can do is get a phosphorus binder, which is aluminum
> hydroxide, AKA Maalox. The problem is that a kitty will puke from liquid
> Maalox, so I had to get it in powder form incorporated into a capsule and
> pill him. I special-ordered it from a veterinary pharmacy in Texas (if
> anyone wants the name, please e-mail me). You give the cat the capsules
with
> the food and this binds up the phosphorus in the food and then it gets
> excreted, so it's not around to further damage his kidneys. But, warning,
> these capsules are expensive ($64 for a one month supply).
>
>
> When Alex was diagnosed with CRF, I followed the above plan and his BUN
and
> creatinine numbers actually came back down to the point where they were
> practically within the normal range. The vet was totally amazed! Good luck
> to the OP. May he have many happy years with his kitty (who can live a
long
> time even with a CRF diagnosis).
> Best regards,
> ----Cindy S.


You gave a lot of good advice Cindy! I hope the OP follows it.

Phil

jjg
June 12th 08, 07:53 AM
Phil P. wrote:

>
> "cindys" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>> >
>> > "jjg" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> My 14 yo tomcat has a problem. He has been diagnosed by the vet, and
>> >> he
>> > (the
>> >> vet) recommends less protein.
>> >
>> > Your vet is about 10 years behind current research in cats with CRF.
>> > Sounds
>> > like he's been educated in CRF by a pet food manufacturer's rep so
>> > he'll push renal diets on his clients. The knee-jerk practice of
>> > restricting protein in CRF cats was based on outdated studies in
>> > Fischer rats that
> are
>> > genetically predisposed to develop CRF as they get older. Its now
>> > known that the things that speed up the progression of CRF in the rat
>> > don't
> have
>> > the same effect in the cat.
>> -------
>> I agree with you Phil (not that you need me to grant you credibility).
> When
>> Alex was diagnosed with CRF, my vet at the time also tried to push the
>> low protein thing. No way Jose. Cats are obligate carnivores and need
>> protein. So, I searched for a canned food that had an average protein
>> content (not high, not low) but with low phosphorous. Believe it or not,
>> one of the
> foods
>> that fit the bill was Science Diet Senior beef and chicken flavors. It's
>> garbage food (in my opinion), but it fit the bill. Another one I used was
>> called NaturalLife (a good quality organic food. The chicken flavor had
> the
>> lowest phosphorus content. Alex preferred the fish flavor which was still
>> quite low in phophorus). Wysong is very high quality food and fits the
> bill.
>> Unfortunately, Alex didn't like it (but the OP's cat may). Here is a
> website
>> that will enable the OP to compare canned foods for protein and
>> phosphorus content. He should try for average protein but low phosphorus.
>>
>> http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm
>>
>> and
>>
>> http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canned.htm
>>
>> The second weblink is supposedly "updated" but there are different foods
>> listed on each one. The OP should avoid dry food entirely if at all
> possible
>> (no matter what the vet says because canned food provides the water
>> necessary for proper kidney function, which is not matched by what the
>> cat is drinking from the water bowl). Alex still wanted the dry food, so
>> I
> gave
>> him a small amount (in addition to the canned food) following the same
>> guidelines and picked average protein, low phosphorus dry food. Following
>> the same process as outlined above, check out:
>>
>> http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dry.htm
>>
>> and
>>
>> http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dryfood.htm
>>
>> I ended up going with one of the Royal Canin indoor formulas and
> NaturalLife
>> (which also makes a dry food).
>>
>> Another thing the OP can do is get a phosphorus binder, which is aluminum
>> hydroxide, AKA Maalox. The problem is that a kitty will puke from liquid
>> Maalox, so I had to get it in powder form incorporated into a capsule and
>> pill him. I special-ordered it from a veterinary pharmacy in Texas (if
>> anyone wants the name, please e-mail me). You give the cat the capsules
> with
>> the food and this binds up the phosphorus in the food and then it gets
>> excreted, so it's not around to further damage his kidneys. But, warning,
>> these capsules are expensive ($64 for a one month supply).
>>
>>
>> When Alex was diagnosed with CRF, I followed the above plan and his BUN
> and
>> creatinine numbers actually came back down to the point where they were
>> practically within the normal range. The vet was totally amazed! Good
>> luck to the OP. May he have many happy years with his kitty (who can live
>> a
> long
>> time even with a CRF diagnosis).
>> Best regards,
>> ----Cindy S.
>
>
> You gave a lot of good advice Cindy! I hope the OP follows it.
>
> Phil

Well, I will try, at least... one of the problems is that I live in
continental Europe, and the brands that have been mentioned are not in
shops here... But I am giving him more variety of cat food now. And in
fact, he seems to feel better nowadays, since the mice are back. (He is a
real hunter, so I may find one or two remains in the morning.)

jjg
June 12th 08, 08:38 AM
<posted & mailed>

jjg wrote:

>> You gave a lot of good advice Cindy! I hope the OP follows it.
>>
>> Phil
>
> Well, I will try, at least... one of the problems is that I live in
> continental Europe, and the brands that have been mentioned are not in
> shops here... But I am giving him more variety of cat food now. And in
> fact, he seems to feel better nowadays, since the mice are back. (He is a
> real hunter, so I may find one or two remains in the morning.)

.... and yesterday I saw, for the first time, a food can indication the
percentage of Phosporus: 0.24%. Not very high, comparing to the figures on
your site, so I bought two cans, and I'll try if he eats it.

hamandcheese
June 12th 08, 05:14 PM
jjg > wrote:

>... and yesterday I saw, for the first time, a food can indication the
>percentage of Phosporus: 0.24%. Not very high, comparing to the figures on
>your site, so I bought two cans, and I'll try if he eats it.

That is not the dry matter figure which is important or else you are
comparing apples to oranges. If the food is 50% water then you have a
Phosphorus figure of .48

-mhd

jjg
June 12th 08, 05:32 PM
hamandcheese wrote:

> jjg > wrote:
>
>>... and yesterday I saw, for the first time, a food can indication the
>>percentage of Phosporus: 0.24%. Not very high, comparing to the figures on
>>your site, so I bought two cans, and I'll try if he eats it.
>
> That is not the dry matter figure which is important or else you are
> comparing apples to oranges. If the food is 50% water then you have a
> Phosphorus figure of .48

Sorry, I didn't realize that...
Well, it has 80% water, so then I have to multiply by 5, I guess.. 1.2%
Still does not seem high, but clearly less good.