PDA

View Full Version : Our cat will not stay inside. Why not?


jjg
June 8th 08, 07:16 PM
I mentioned it briefly in another thread, but it is something I am quite
worried about: our cat will not stay within the house. Well, he has always
been an outside cat, and the weather is good at the moment, but still it is
remarkable that he does not even want to stay in the house for more than a
few occasional hours, not even when the weather is less friendly. And we
always let him out when he clearly indicates that he wants to... just
wondering why?
He is, in my opinion, seriously ill. He is about 14 years old now, his
kidneys are failing, currently he eats --more or less-- enough, but of
course we are already thinking of his, hopefully not imminent, death...
well, like it or not, but we all die.
What would explain this fairly sudden gadabout-ness? Does he feel the same?
Does he want to be outside when the Great Mother Cat calls him home (cats
likely have no Great Father, but I suspect they have a Great Mother)?
He definitely trusts, and to a feline extent, loves us-- we always let him
out, when he wants, and he shows clear signs of affection. He might be
worried that we suddenly take him to the vet, perhaps...

cybercat
June 8th 08, 07:48 PM
"jjg" > wrote in message
...
>I mentioned it briefly in another thread, but it is something I am quite
> worried about: our cat will not stay within the house. Well, he has always
> been an outside cat, and the weather is good at the moment, but still it
> is
> remarkable that he does not even want to stay in the house for more than a
> few occasional hours, not even when the weather is less friendly. And we
> always let him out when he clearly indicates that he wants to... just
> wondering why?

Hint: you are able to close and lock your doors, hence your cat WILL
stay indoors if you wish.

cybercat
June 8th 08, 07:49 PM
"jjg" > wrote

> Does he want to be outside when the Great Mother Cat calls him home

Right. The Great Mother Cadillac is more like it. Keep your old, ill cat
inside where he is safe. You are the caretaker. You have the large
forebrain. (Theoritically, anyway.) You have the opposable thumbs.

Use the tools given you to keep your cat safe.

jjg
June 8th 08, 08:14 PM
cybercat wrote:

>
> "jjg" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I mentioned it briefly in another thread, but it is something I am quite
>> worried about: our cat will not stay within the house. Well, he has
>> always been an outside cat, and the weather is good at the moment, but
>> still it is
>> remarkable that he does not even want to stay in the house for more than
>> a few occasional hours, not even when the weather is less friendly. And
>> we always let him out when he clearly indicates that he wants to... just
>> wondering why?
>
> Hint: you are able to close and lock your doors, hence your cat WILL
> stay indoors if you wish.

I am not sure whether you are serious, but I think the difference is that he
should trust us; obedience should never be a point with a cat (it doesn't
exist)... of course we can lock him in... that's not the point. Violence is
never a solution, even though it may occasionally be unavoidable. And the
question is not where I wish him to be; if he feels happy outside, it's OK.
I am just wondering whether he IS happy, and why he is so remarkably
consistent in his recent behaviour...

cybercat
June 8th 08, 08:31 PM
"jjg" > wrote in message
...
> cybercat wrote:
>
>>
>> "jjg" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>I mentioned it briefly in another thread, but it is something I am quite
>>> worried about: our cat will not stay within the house. Well, he has
>>> always been an outside cat, and the weather is good at the moment, but
>>> still it is
>>> remarkable that he does not even want to stay in the house for more than
>>> a few occasional hours, not even when the weather is less friendly. And
>>> we always let him out when he clearly indicates that he wants to... just
>>> wondering why?
>>
>> Hint: you are able to close and lock your doors, hence your cat WILL
>> stay indoors if you wish.
>
> I am not sure whether you are serious, but I think the difference is that
> he
> should trust us; obedience should never be a point with a cat (it doesn't
> exist)... of course we can lock him in... that's not the point. Violence
> is
> never a solution, even though it may occasionally be unavoidable. And the
> question is not where I wish him to be; if he feels happy outside, it's
> OK.
> I am just wondering whether he IS happy, and why he is so remarkably
> consistent in his recent behaviour...
>

I am dead serious. Clearly, your cat cannot trust you to keep him safe,
which
is your job. He only has that leetle tiny cat brain and then lots of
instincts, nothing
that works against junkyard dogs, automobiles, or sadistic cat-hating
people.

Shame on you.

jjg
June 8th 08, 08:31 PM
cybercat wrote:

>
> "jjg" > wrote
>
>> Does he want to be outside when the Great Mother Cat calls him home
>
> Right. The Great Mother Cadillac is more like it. Keep your old, ill cat
> inside where he is safe. You are the caretaker. You have the large
> forebrain. (Theoritically, anyway.) You have the opposable thumbs.
>
> Use the tools given you to keep your cat safe.

And, again, you sound more like a dog-owner (this is not intended to be an
insult). He may be ill, but he still catches mice. He still defends his own
territory. And I tend to think that cats have their own view on life, and I
think we, humans, have to be careful about interfering. Yes, we have the
larger forebrain, and we should use it too. But even our large forebrains
will not prevent us, or our beloved, from dying. And occasionally we find
that we have stretched a miserable life by artificial means, and we might
be wondering if our large forebrain pointed us the right direction.
And I am not really concerned about keeping my cat safe-- he is still quite
capable of defending himself against all dangers for which Nature equipped
him. I am just wondering about the dangers he might not be aware of.

I might lock him up, yes, and to what purpose? If he knows he is going to
die (G*d forbid), who am I to determine in which way? Even if I can lock
doors, thanks to my opposable thumbs? I am not planning to be his jailer. I
want him to live his own life, and if it ends, it ends.

Well, and of course I am talking about "my" cat, but every cat owner knows
he is his own cat, not mine. And all I want to know is whether I am acting
right.

cybercat
June 8th 08, 08:31 PM
"jjg" > wrote in message
...
> cybercat wrote:
>
>>
>> "jjg" > wrote
>>
>>> Does he want to be outside when the Great Mother Cat calls him home
>>
>> Right. The Great Mother Cadillac is more like it. Keep your old, ill cat
>> inside where he is safe. You are the caretaker. You have the large
>> forebrain. (Theoritically, anyway.) You have the opposable thumbs.
>>
>> Use the tools given you to keep your cat safe.
>
> And, again, you sound more like a dog-owner (this is not intended to be an
> insult). He may be ill, but he still catches mice. He still defends his
> own
> territory. And I tend to think that cats have their own view on life, and
> I
> think we, humans, have to be careful about interfering. Yes, we have the
> larger forebrain, and we should use it too. But even our large forebrains
> will not prevent us, or our beloved, from dying. And occasionally we find
> that we have stretched a miserable life by artificial means, and we might
> be wondering if our large forebrain pointed us the right direction.
> And I am not really concerned about keeping my cat safe-- he is still
> quite
> capable of defending himself against all dangers for which Nature equipped
> him. I am just wondering about the dangers he might not be aware of.
>
> I might lock him up, yes, and to what purpose? If he knows he is going to
> die (G*d forbid), who am I to determine in which way? Even if I can lock
> doors, thanks to my opposable thumbs? I am not planning to be his jailer.
> I
> want him to live his own life, and if it ends, it ends.
>
> Well, and of course I am talking about "my" cat, but every cat owner knows
> he is his own cat, not mine. And all I want to know is whether I am acting
> right.

You're a halfwitted jackass who should never, ever be allowed responsibility
for any animal.

jjg
June 8th 08, 08:35 PM
cybercat wrote:

>
> "jjg" > wrote in message
> ...
>> cybercat wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "jjg" > wrote
>>>
>>>> Does he want to be outside when the Great Mother Cat calls him home
>>>
>>> Right. The Great Mother Cadillac is more like it. Keep your old, ill cat
>>> inside where he is safe. You are the caretaker. You have the large
>>> forebrain. (Theoritically, anyway.) You have the opposable thumbs.
>>>
>>> Use the tools given you to keep your cat safe.
>>
>> And, again, you sound more like a dog-owner (this is not intended to be
>> an insult). He may be ill, but he still catches mice. He still defends
>> his own
>> territory. And I tend to think that cats have their own view on life, and
>> I
>> think we, humans, have to be careful about interfering. Yes, we have the
>> larger forebrain, and we should use it too. But even our large forebrains
>> will not prevent us, or our beloved, from dying. And occasionally we find
>> that we have stretched a miserable life by artificial means, and we might
>> be wondering if our large forebrain pointed us the right direction.
>> And I am not really concerned about keeping my cat safe-- he is still
>> quite
>> capable of defending himself against all dangers for which Nature
>> equipped him. I am just wondering about the dangers he might not be aware
>> of.
>>
>> I might lock him up, yes, and to what purpose? If he knows he is going to
>> die (G*d forbid), who am I to determine in which way? Even if I can lock
>> doors, thanks to my opposable thumbs? I am not planning to be his jailer.
>> I
>> want him to live his own life, and if it ends, it ends.
>>
>> Well, and of course I am talking about "my" cat, but every cat owner
>> knows he is his own cat, not mine. And all I want to know is whether I am
>> acting right.
>
> You're a halfwitted jackass who should never, ever be allowed
> responsibility for any animal.

Well it's clear now: you are a troll. Ploink.

jjg
June 8th 08, 09:05 PM
hopitus wrote:

> On Jun 8, 1:14 pm, jjg > wrote:
>> cybercat wrote:
>>
>> > "jjg" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >>I mentioned it briefly in another thread, but it is something I am
>> >>quite
>> >> worried about: our cat will not stay within the house. Well, he has
>> >> always been an outside cat, and the weather is good at the moment, but
>> >> still it is
>> >> remarkable that he does not even want to stay in the house for more
>> >> than a few occasional hours, not even when the weather is less
>> >> friendly. And we always let him out when he clearly indicates that he
>> >> wants to... just wondering why?
>>
>> > Hint: you are able to close and lock your doors, hence your cat WILL
>> > stay indoors if you wish.
>>
>> I am not sure whether you are serious, but I think the difference is that
>> he should trust us; obedience should never be a point with a cat (it
>> doesn't exist)... of course we can lock him in... that's not the point.
>> Violence is never a solution, even though it may occasionally be
>> unavoidable. And the question is not where I wish him to be; if he feels
>> happy outside, it's OK. I am just wondering whether he IS happy, and why
>> he is so remarkably consistent in his recent behaviour...
>
> Oh, cyber is serious, and her good advice to you - *since you asked
> for it" -
> is worded very courteously, IMHO. If closing your door to keep your
> old cat
> who is not well inside for his own good is *violence* AFYC, read no
> further.

Well, I would think that locking up someone is fairly near "violence", yes.
Every prisoner would agree, I think.
As I indicated already, it _may_ be justified, but I would be careful with
it.

> Otherwise, your cat acts as he does re wanting outside out of habit.I
> have
> personal experience with retraining cats in this manner as several
> already
> declawed outcasts came to and reside with me and have no defense
> outside...ergo:

Well, "my" cat at least has perfect claws, and he knows to use them, too (I
know. I occasionally challenge him, yes ;-) .. and there are some (hairy)
remains of catfights too. He is certainly not defenseless. In fact, I think
he would behave quite differently if he felt he were. And even then I would
not think he would stay home. And, as I indicated already, he seems to
defend his own territory.

> retrain to stay in. Also have experience retrieving and burying very
> dead cats
> from deep under the house (not recently, long ago in late childhood).
> Cyber
> tells it like it is. Your cat *does* trust you....to take care of him
> for his own
> good, as he is a cat, getting old, and not able to defend himself as
> when young.
> And Jah, I too am serious.

Well, if you are, just tell me why I should keep a cat inside while all his
instincts tell him otherwise? while he still feels capable of fending off
all other cats? With some success, as far a I can tell?

Back to the original question:
The problem is not that he is in immediate danger. He still knows to defend
himself, he even knows to feed himself (to some extent), he just doesn't
want to stay inside. Why not? If he feels happy with it, so be it. I am
just not sure that it is as simple as that...

cshenk
June 8th 08, 09:29 PM
"jjg" wrote

> Well, if you are, just tell me why I should keep a cat inside while all
> his
> instincts tell him otherwise? while he still feels capable of fending off
> all other cats? With some success, as far a I can tell?

It depends on circumstances and you won't get total agreement here from all.
Some feel it is cruel to keep a cat indoors all the time, others feel it is
cruel to let them out due to the dangers of getting run over etc.

> Back to the original question:
> The problem is not that he is in immediate danger. He still knows to
> defend
> himself, he even knows to feed himself (to some extent), he just doesn't
> want to stay inside. Why not? If he feels happy with it, so be it. I am
> just not sure that it is as simple as that...

If your area is ok, meaning no major roads etc real close (unlike me) then
you should let the nature of your own cat be your guide. Some simply do not
stray far. Had a renter neighbor near us who's older cat (15 or so?)
wouldnt leave the fenced back yard so there was no reason to not let her out
there on a fine sunny day. My current cat Daisy though? Nope! She's not
prone to trying to go outside except on the screened porch but I wouldnt
want to chance it. Too many nearby big roads.

jjg
June 8th 08, 09:34 PM
hopitus wrote:

> On Jun 8, 1:35 pm, jjg > wrote:
>> cybercat wrote:
>>
>> > "jjg" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> cybercat wrote:
>>
>> >>> "jjg" > wrote
>>
>> >>>> Does he want to be outside when the Great Mother Cat calls him home
>>
>> >>> Right. The Great Mother Cadillac is more like it. Keep your old, ill
>> >>> cat inside where he is safe. You are the caretaker. You have the
>> >>> large forebrain. (Theoritically, anyway.) You have the opposable
>> >>> thumbs.
>>
>> >>> Use the tools given you to keep your cat safe.
>>
>> >> And, again, you sound more like a dog-owner (this is not intended to
>> >> be an insult). He may be ill, but he still catches mice. He still
>> >> defends his own
>> >> territory. And I tend to think that cats have their own view on life,
>> >> and I
>> >> think we, humans, have to be careful about interfering. Yes, we have
>> >> the larger forebrain, and we should use it too. But even our large
>> >> forebrains will not prevent us, or our beloved, from dying. And
>> >> occasionally we find that we have stretched a miserable life by
>> >> artificial means, and we might be wondering if our large forebrain
>> >> pointed us the right direction. And I am not really concerned about
>> >> keeping my cat safe-- he is still quite
>> >> capable of defending himself against all dangers for which Nature
>> >> equipped him. I am just wondering about the dangers he might not be
>> >> aware of.
>>
>> >> I might lock him up, yes, and to what purpose? If he knows he is going
>> >> to die (G*d forbid), who am I to determine in which way? Even if I can
>> >> lock doors, thanks to my opposable thumbs? I am not planning to be his
>> >> jailer. I
>> >> want him to live his own life, and if it ends, it ends.
>>
>> >> Well, and of course I am talking about "my" cat, but every cat owner
>> >> knows he is his own cat, not mine. And all I want to know is whether I
>> >> am acting right.
>>
>> > You're a halfwitted jackass who should never, ever be allowed
>> > responsibility for any animal.
>>
>> Well it's clear now: you are a troll. Ploink.
>
> Plonk yourself. Cyber is not a troll, just has a low tolerance for
> stupidity. So do I. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I think
> *you* are a troll or alternately either a provocative poster or
> beyond help.

Well, I think you are just the same nonperson/troll. So: ploink again.

jjg
June 8th 08, 10:10 PM
cshenk wrote:

> "jjg" wrote
>
>> Well, if you are, just tell me why I should keep a cat inside while all
>> his
>> instincts tell him otherwise? while he still feels capable of fending off
>> all other cats? With some success, as far a I can tell?
>
> It depends on circumstances and you won't get total agreement here from
> all. Some feel it is cruel to keep a cat indoors all the time, others feel
> it is cruel to let them out due to the dangers of getting run over etc.
>

Yes, I see that. And I am both old enough to be familiar with differring
visions, and experienced enough to be familiar with the ways they are being
expressed on the 'Net. And I do not expect the definitive answer... I just
want to keep "my" cat alive AND happy.

And I am quite sure that he will be EXTREMELY unhappy if I keep him forcibly
indoors.

>> Back to the original question:
>> The problem is not that he is in immediate danger. He still knows to
>> defend
>> himself, he even knows to feed himself (to some extent), he just doesn't
>> want to stay inside. Why not? If he feels happy with it, so be it. I am
>> just not sure that it is as simple as that...
>
> If your area is ok, meaning no major roads etc real close (unlike me) then
> you should let the nature of your own cat be your guide.

Well, we have a not-too-quiet road nearby. I have seen him "challenging" a
car, that stopped. I am pretty sure that he knows all cars in the
neighborhood, and knows which ones will stop and which ones won't. Well, he
may be wrong one day, and so may I. That's life, isn't it?

> Some simply do
> not
> stray far. Had a renter neighbor near us who's older cat (15 or so?)
> wouldnt leave the fenced back yard so there was no reason to not let her
> out
> there on a fine sunny day. My current cat Daisy though? Nope! She's not
> prone to trying to go outside except on the screened porch but I wouldnt
> want to chance it. Too many nearby big roads.

Well, you are a real cat lover, that's clear. So you know that they are all
different. Mine goes (or went, I'm not sure if he still does) quite a
distance, at least just about as far as the areas of neighbour cats reach
(I live in a rural area, so that is quite far... you're just surprised how
far these cats walk). At least you most likely know that a cat goes as far
as he wants, not as far as you would like him to go. And then we are back
at my original question: I want to keep him happy, as long as possible.
That simply doesn't include locking him up. If I know that he has to go to
the vet tomorrow morning, yes. Cats, of course, are just like us when we
have to go to the dentist. But I want to keep him alive in dignity. And if
it is his time, to die in dignity.

cybercat
June 8th 08, 10:28 PM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
...
>
> "jjg" >
>
> Well does it look like I am both are members of this group considering I
> am posting from rr.com
> hoptis is posting from : http://groups.google.com
> and cyber is posting from Aioe.org about time you learned how Cyber
>
I am posting from Usenetmonster.com!

Lynne
June 8th 08, 11:04 PM
jjg wrote:
>
> Well it's clear now: you are a troll. Ploink.

Actually, I'm thinking it is you who is the troll... Why else would you
ask a loaded question for which you already have all the answers you
seem to want?

Lynne
June 8th 08, 11:05 PM
Matthew wrote:

> Why do we attract the weirdo's here

I only opened one thread other than the one I started about Levi. Some
things never change!

*waves*

cybercat
June 8th 08, 11:06 PM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> Matthew wrote:
>
>> Why do we attract the weirdo's here
>
> I only opened one thread other than the one I started about Levi. Some
> things never change!
>
> *waves*

I was wondering if that was you! How is Levi?

Lynne
June 8th 08, 11:10 PM
cybercat wrote:
> "Lynne" > wrote in message
> m...
>> Matthew wrote:
>>
>>> Why do we attract the weirdo's here
>> I only opened one thread other than the one I started about Levi. Some
>> things never change!
>>
>> *waves*
>
> I was wondering if that was you! How is Levi?

Well, I thought he was better until the urinary pH came back so dern
high.... he seems better, much better, but the high pH means he is at a
high risk of crystal formation. I hope we get to the bottom of this.

In other news, I changed my door knobs to foil Rudy, who was not only
adept at opening them, but who also figured out how to unlock the
friggen things. He kept following me into the backyard and going out
through the garage so I could keep the deadbolt locked was getting to be
a PITA. It cost me a small fortune, but it was worth it. He was ****ed
off for 2 weeks, heh heh. He's finally given up. I'm waiting for him
to grow thumbs out of spite... :-)

Lynne
June 8th 08, 11:19 PM
Matthew wrote:

> You are always welcome weirdo or not ;-)

Aw, shucks, ya sweet talker--thanks. It is well known that I am a
weirdo, but some of the ones this group attracts actually make me look
normal (whatever that means!).

I'm glad to see you and Cyber still fighting the good fight. I remember
just wanting to smash heads after a while...

cybercat
June 8th 08, 11:37 PM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> cybercat wrote:
>> "Lynne" > wrote in message
>> m...
>>> Matthew wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why do we attract the weirdo's here
>>> I only opened one thread other than the one I started about Levi. Some
>>> things never change!
>>>
>>> *waves*
>>
>> I was wondering if that was you! How is Levi?
>
> Well, I thought he was better until the urinary pH came back so dern
> high.... he seems better, much better, but the high pH means he is at a
> high risk of crystal formation. I hope we get to the bottom of this.
>
> In other news, I changed my door knobs to foil Rudy, who was not only
> adept at opening them, but who also figured out how to unlock the friggen
> things. He kept following me into the backyard and going out through the
> garage so I could keep the deadbolt locked was getting to be a PITA. It
> cost me a small fortune, but it was worth it. He was ****ed off for 2
> weeks, heh heh. He's finally given up. I'm waiting for him to grow
> thumbs out of spite... :-)
>

I sure hope so too, he is such a sweetie.

cybercat
June 8th 08, 11:38 PM
"Lynne" > wrote in message
m...
> Matthew wrote:
>
>> You are always welcome weirdo or not ;-)
>
> Aw, shucks, ya sweet talker--thanks. It is well known that I am a weirdo,
> but some of the ones this group attracts actually make me look normal
> (whatever that means!).
>
> I'm glad to see you and Cyber still fighting the good fight. I remember
> just wanting to smash heads after a while...

Really. Maffew and I do find as long as we don't try to smash one another's
heads.

cshenk
June 8th 08, 11:40 PM
"jjg" wrote
> cshenk wrote:

>> It depends on circumstances and you won't get total agreement here from
>> all. Some feel it is cruel to keep a cat indoors all the time, others
>> feel
>> it is cruel to let them out due to the dangers of getting run over etc.

> Yes, I see that. And I am both old enough to be familiar with differring
> visions, and experienced enough to be familiar with the ways they are
> being
> expressed on the 'Net. And I do not expect the definitive answer... I just
> want to keep "my" cat alive AND happy.

Then do not worry what others 'think'. I see you post from the NL.
Netherlands I take it? I'd mostly be worried about cold but I know it's
well into spring there and birds are nesting.

> And I am quite sure that he will be EXTREMELY unhappy if I keep him
> forcibly
> indoors.

Then, you shouldnt. Each cat has it's own nature. People who try to
pretend 'one size fits all' with cats, are often either with their *first*
cat, or have not a varied livingspace so havent seen how it can apply. A
little bit ago there was a thread here on a lady on a farm with a cat and
some got really upset that the cat was able to be near the chickens. They
lacked the experience of living on a farm and didnt know this is a normal
thing.

>> If your area is ok, meaning no major roads etc real close (unlike me)
>> then
>> you should let the nature of your own cat be your guide.
>
> Well, we have a not-too-quiet road nearby. I have seen him "challenging" a
> car, that stopped. I am pretty sure that he knows all cars in the
> neighborhood, and knows which ones will stop and which ones won't. Well,
> he
> may be wrong one day, and so may I. That's life, isn't it?

True.

>> Some simply do not stray far.
>> Had a renter neighbor near us who's older cat (15 or so?)
>> wouldnt leave the fenced back yard so there was no reason to not let her
>> out

> Well, you are a real cat lover, that's clear. So you know that they are
> all
> different. Mine goes (or went, I'm not sure if he still does) quite a

I've had quite a few cats over the past 26 years. As only 3 came to me as
kittens (2 lived with me til they died of old age, one was delivered to a
new home when I had to move to Hawaii and couldnt take him), I got most in
middle life or past it a bit. Kitties who are set in their ways do not
suprise me at all.

Vamp, he was outdoor. He didnt want to be indoor unless it was snowing. I
built him a little heated home on my doorstep. He would gracefully come
inside for a few hours a day but only if i left the front door open the
whole time.

Bobby (one of the 3 kittens, the one who was gifted to a farm when I moved)
was a mix but decided his 'terratory' was the apartment complex. He would
not leave the complex and would come when called. Indoor at night, shared
Vamp's box sometimes. He'd take the outer edge and Vamp the middle curled
on his belly. (Bobby was a fortuitious name as he turned out to be 1/2
american bobcat when he got past kittenhood and we could tell what he was).

Face and Roscoe were the other 2 babies, and lived with us til old age took
them. Indoor totally and never tried to go outside except the screened
porch.

Thom and Babe were rescues with a horridly bad 'all 4 feet' declaw job,
added to Roscoe and Face (fully naturally clawed). Babe was 'only cat' and
wasnt happy with other cats in same home so found her an 'only cat' home.
Thom, we found a home for as we moved to Japan. He hadnt been happy as an
'only cat' once Face and Roscoe died. If we could have kept him, we'd have
needed to add another cat fast.

There have been others, being a resuce sort of person but these are the main
ones.

Cats just like people all have their own natures. A happy cat, is one who's
'slave mommie' listens and works with them.

> distance, at least just about as far as the areas of neighbour cats reach
> (I live in a rural area, so that is quite far... you're just surprised how
> far these cats walk). At least you most likely know that a cat goes as far

Sure! Bobby went to a farm north of San Antonio TX. I lived in San Antonio
then.
Big spread, got cat cards for Xmas til he died about age 16. The local area
has a prized 'mouser' called a 'bobby-cat'. I never had Bobby fixed <g>.
Wife had dog allergies and husband loved big dogs so Bobby fit in well.

> as he wants, not as far as you would like him to go. And then we are back
> at my original question: I want to keep him happy, as long as possible.
> That simply doesn't include locking him up. If I know that he has to go to
> the vet tomorrow morning, yes. Cats, of course, are just like us when we
> have to go to the dentist. But I want to keep him alive in dignity. And if
> it is his time, to die in dignity.

Which is fine with me and the right way to look at it. Most who can't see
it from the same viewpoint, come from a background without enough variation
to understand you. Please be kind though to those who's environment is
different and cant responsibly allow a cat outside. My current situation
for example doesnt lead to that due to large roads at 55MPH (um, 80KPH?)
within less than .5km of me and hemmed in by others at 45mph (65kph?). My
actual front yard is rated for 25mph (seem to recall this is 30 kph?) but
folks speed down it at times.

As you can see here, my current location doesnt lead to outdoor kitties but
my background shows I understand well this concept. We live, we die. If we
are lucky, we have fun along the route.

Lynne
June 9th 08, 12:47 AM
cybercat wrote:
> "Lynne" > wrote in message
> m...
>> Matthew wrote:
>>
>>> You are always welcome weirdo or not ;-)
>> Aw, shucks, ya sweet talker--thanks. It is well known that I am a weirdo,
>> but some of the ones this group attracts actually make me look normal
>> (whatever that means!).
>>
>> I'm glad to see you and Cyber still fighting the good fight. I remember
>> just wanting to smash heads after a while...
>
> Really. Maffew and I do find as long as we don't try to smash one another's
> heads.

Oh, I remember being there, too! Still, this group needs both of you
IMO. You've definitely got more fortitude than I.

Though if I had a little time on my hands, I'd definitely visit more often.

hamandcheese
June 9th 08, 02:32 AM
jjg > wrote:

>
>Well, I think you are just the same nonperson/troll. So: ploink again.

WTF is Ploink???

Is that a gay plonk?

BTW, give you cat to someone who cares about it's welfare instead of
spouting that free and happy nonsense.

-mhd

Mac Cool
June 9th 08, 03:53 AM
jjg:

> and to what purpose?

You are wasting your time. The internet animal culture dictates that
allowing an animal outside for any reason = abuse.

A friend of the family picked up two stray abused puppies on the side of
the road, they were nearly starved to death. For whatever reason she
brought them to my house where my family and I nursed them back to health,
fed them, washed them, played with them. Then I started asking around on
the internet about options for getting them fixed cheaply before finding
homes for them. At some point I mentioned that the dogs were living
outside, in my fenced back yard, and suddenly I became the anti-christ. I
was told point blank that the puppies were better off dead than with
someone like me, terrible things were wished upon me and they said I
shouldn't be allowed within proximity of any animal ever again -- and they
truly believe this. No one even bothered to ask if my yard was fenced, or
if they had shelter, or what climate I lived in, it never came up. The
dogs were outside and I was the abuser. This wasn't just one crackpot, it
was a whole forum. So don't waste your time trying to reason because
internet animal lovers have a different value system.

Matilda
June 9th 08, 05:09 AM
"jjg" > wrote in message
...
> cybercat wrote:
>
>>
>> "jjg" > wrote
>>
>>> Does he want to be outside when the Great Mother Cat calls him home
>>
>> Right. The Great Mother Cadillac is more like it. Keep your old, ill cat
>> inside where he is safe. You are the caretaker. You have the large
>> forebrain. (Theoritically, anyway.) You have the opposable thumbs.
>>
>> Use the tools given you to keep your cat safe.
>
> And, again, you sound more like a dog-owner (this is not intended to be an
> insult). He may be ill, but he still catches mice. He still defends his
> own
> territory. And I tend to think that cats have their own view on life, and
> I
> think we, humans, have to be careful about interfering. Yes, we have the
> larger forebrain, and we should use it too. But even our large forebrains
> will not prevent us, or our beloved, from dying. And occasionally we find
> that we have stretched a miserable life by artificial means, and we might
> be wondering if our large forebrain pointed us the right direction.
> And I am not really concerned about keeping my cat safe-- he is still
> quite
> capable of defending himself against all dangers for which Nature equipped
> him. I am just wondering about the dangers he might not be aware of.
>
> I might lock him up, yes, and to what purpose? If he knows he is going to
> die (G*d forbid), who am I to determine in which way? Even if I can lock
> doors, thanks to my opposable thumbs? I am not planning to be his jailer.
> I
> want him to live his own life, and if it ends, it ends.
>
> Well, and of course I am talking about "my" cat, but every cat owner knows
> he is his own cat, not mine. And all I want to know is whether I am acting
> right.

Let your conscience be your guide.

cybercat
June 9th 08, 06:47 AM
"Mac Cool" > wrote in message
...
> jjg:
>
>> and to what purpose?
>
> You are wasting your time. The internet animal culture dictates that
> allowing an animal outside for any reason = abuse.
>

So I guess it is fair game to ask you why you allowed your cat to get
so fat he died of heart disease, right?

jjg
June 9th 08, 11:22 AM
Mac Cool wrote:

> jjg:
>
>> and to what purpose?
>
> You are wasting your time. The internet animal culture dictates that
> allowing an animal outside for any reason = abuse.

Interesting. I didn't know this background.

> This wasn't just one crackpot, it
> was a whole forum. So don't waste your time trying to reason because
> internet animal lovers have a different value system.

Well, I have some Net-experience, and I tend to ignore this kind of
reaction. And "my" cat certainly does not give a d***

James
June 9th 08, 12:25 PM
Some people are just paranoid. They make their kids wear body amour,
donít allow them to skate, bike, etc. because the kids might get
hurt. They lock themselves and their pets up in their home.

My opinion on why cats go out is some cats just need more room to
play. There are times when my pussy just sleeps indoors but she needs
to climb trees, go up to the roof, and see other people and animals.
No matter how expensive a cat tree, itís no substitute for read trees
that sway in the wind with shaking leaves. Iím sure some cat is quite
happy being a couch potato and watch TV. If thatís what one wants one
might as well get a toy stuffed cat.

Mac Cool
June 10th 08, 03:47 AM
cybercat:

> So I guess it is fair game to ask you why you allowed your cat to get
> so fat he died of heart disease, right?

Because it wasn't my job to force an arbitrary way of life upon him; Tommy
was my companion not my slave. I provided shelter, a safe environment and
nourishing food. Tommy chose the rest.

Cats die - all of them, every single one; as will we. Dying is sad but it
is not evil. My cat had a good life and he was happy. I am happy that he
had that opportunity.

cybercat
June 10th 08, 05:49 AM
"Mac Cool" > wrote in message
...
> cybercat:
>
>> So I guess it is fair game to ask you why you allowed your cat to get
>> so fat he died of heart disease, right?
>
> Because it wasn't my job to force an arbitrary way of life upon him; Tommy
> was my companion not my slave. I provided shelter, a safe environment and
> nourishing food. Tommy chose the rest.
>
> Cats die - all of them, every single one; as will we. Dying is sad but it
> is not evil. My cat had a good life and he was happy. I am happy that he
> had that opportunity.

Well, as long as you are happy, that's all that matters. Obviously.

James
June 10th 08, 07:43 PM
On Jun 8, 10:53*pm, Mac Cool > wrote:

> dogs were outside and I was the abuser. This wasn't just one crackpot, it
> was a whole forum. So don't waste your time trying to reason because
> internet animal lovers have a different value system.

Or are just crazy pet Nazis.

-Lost
June 12th 08, 08:47 PM
Response to "Matilda" <[email protected]>:

<snip>

> Let your conscience be your guide.

That's obviously not working.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

June 14th 08, 08:13 PM
yea