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Janet Boss
June 9th 08, 01:36 PM
My Carey cat, who has has problems for the last 6+ years, none of them
successfully diagnosed (despite numerous vets and specialists and
tests), has finally been diagnosed as hyperthyroid, which I have
suspected all along, but tests did not indicate. Her urine output has
increased dramatically the last few weeks and has been happening outside
of the box as well as in. She has dropped even more weight and although
the vet office weighed her at 5#, she was moving around a bit and I
don't believe she's actually that much.

She is not interested in eating. I got her favorite roasted chicken,
and while she'll take a bite or two, that's it. I have had to take her
to her food, as she has not come in to the room seeking it. I offered
her food off my plate last evening and it was ignored. We usually let
her clean off our dinner plates and it is a highlight of her day.

While I know that tapazole is a possibility as well as radioactive
iodine, I'm concerned that there is and underlying issue that is causing
her to not eat, and also aware that the hyperthyroid treatments could
send her kidneys into a tailspin. I don't want to just let her fade
away, but don't want to cause her pain either. She is barely sustaining
herself at this point.

She got sub-Q fluids on Wednesday, and rallied a bit, but she's back to
just staying in her cat bed for the most part. I'm assuming that
there is probably some cancer at play, as we all expect a hyperthyroid
cat to be ravenous. She has not been and is not now.

I have to think about this practically along with the emotional part,
and her 15th birthday is in a bit over a month. We have another
appointment at the vet on Thursday and I'm feeling a bit lost about what
course of action to take.

Any actual experiences with a cat with this particular combination of
symptoms/diagnoses would be welcome.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Rene S.
June 9th 08, 04:53 PM
> She is not interested in eating. *I got her favorite roasted chicken,
> and while she'll take a bite or two, that's it. I have had to take her
> to her food, as she has not come in to the room seeking it. I offered
> her food off my plate last evening and it was ignored. *We usually let
> her clean off our dinner plates and it is a highlight of her day.

Hi Janet,

I don't have a lot of experience with this, but my parent's late cat
had hyperthryoid, and indeed, they are generally ravenous and lose
weight. You certainly have cause to be concerned of an underlying
cause.

Has she had any x-rays or ultrasounds to find any possible tumors or
anything else unusual? Are there any internal specialists your vet
could refer you to instead?

In the meantime, I strongly urge you to forcefeed your kitty until the
appointment. If you need some tips on that, feel free to email me.
It's not fun, but she needs nourishment right now.

Hugs,
Rene

Janet Boss
June 9th 08, 05:11 PM
In article
>,
"Rene S." > wrote:

> You certainly have cause to be concerned of an underlying
> cause.
>

Everything I've read seems to point to that as well as what my vets have
said.

> Has she had any x-rays or ultrasounds to find any possible tumors or
> anything else unusual? Are there any internal specialists your vet
> could refer you to instead?

We have had ultrasounds and x-rays and not found anything. I admit that
I'm not sure about the internal specialist route. Not that I haven't
consulted them before, but my experiences with dogs with internal
cancerous tumors leads me to believe that I would not choose surgery.
I've done the heroic route and I'm not sure it is the right one, for so
many reasons. That doesn't make me feel any better though!

> In the meantime, I strongly urge you to forcefeed your kitty until the
> appointment. If you need some tips on that, feel free to email me.
> It's not fun, but she needs nourishment right now.

She is really not herself and I popped her a cyproheptadine a bit ago to
see if I can stimulate her appetite. If that doesn't trigger something
before long, I will e-mail you.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Phil P.
June 9th 08, 06:34 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
>
> She is not interested in eating. I got her favorite roasted chicken,
> and while she'll take a bite or two, that's it. I have had to take her
> to her food, as she has not come in to the room seeking it. I offered
> her food off my plate last evening and it was ignored. We usually let
> her clean off our dinner plates and it is a highlight of her day.

> While I know that tapazole is a possibility as well as radioactive
> iodine, I'm concerned that there is and underlying issue that is causing
> her to not eat,

Its called "apethetic hyperthyroidism". The ravenous appetite is replaced
by inappetence and eventually complete anorexia. These symptoms usually
resolve after hyperthyroidism is treated successfully or cured with I-131 tx


and also aware that the hyperthyroid treatments could
> send her kidneys into a tailspin.

Hyperthyroid treatments don't send kidneys into tailspins. Hyperthyroidism
can mask preexisting kidney disease by increasing renal blood flow and the
glomerular filtration rate (GFR), making the kidneys look like they're in
better shape than they actually are. When hyperthyroidism is treated, the
GFR and renal blood flow return to normal which can cause the BUN/Cr. to
rise significantly in cats with preexisting underlying kidney disease.

To avoid a kidney crisis, simply choose a conservative and reversible
therapy such as oral or transdermal methimazole and monitor her kidney
values. If her kidney values (BUN/Cr) rise while she's taking methimazole
simply manipulate the dose until you strike a balance between an
"acceptable" level of hyperthyroidism and an "acceptable" level of azotemia.
OTOH, if her kidney values remain stable while on methimazole, she'd
probably be a low-risk candidate for I-131- which is a permanent cure.
That's the route I took with my hyperthyroid cat two years ago and she's
been thriving ever since.

cybercat
June 9th 08, 07:30 PM
"Phil P." > wrote:
>
> Hyperthyroid treatments don't send kidneys into tailspins. Hyperthyroidism
> can mask preexisting kidney disease by increasing renal blood flow and the
> glomerular filtration rate (GFR), making the kidneys look like they're in
> better shape than they actually are. When hyperthyroidism is treated, the
> GFR and renal blood flow return to normal which can cause the BUN/Cr. to
> rise significantly in cats with preexisting underlying kidney disease.
>
> To avoid a kidney crisis, simply choose a conservative and reversible
> therapy such as oral or transdermal methimazole and monitor her kidney
> values. If her kidney values (BUN/Cr) rise while she's taking methimazole
> simply manipulate the dose until you strike a balance between an
> "acceptable" level of hyperthyroidism and an "acceptable" level of
> azotemia.
> OTOH, if her kidney values remain stable while on methimazole, she'd
> probably be a low-risk candidate for I-131- which is a permanent cure.
> That's the route I took with my hyperthyroid cat two years ago and she's
> been thriving ever since.
>

Phil, you are so good on so many issues, but have been particularly helpful
on this one, for me. Boo is doing great, by the way. Shiny, feisty, and
trim.

Janet Boss
June 9th 08, 08:27 PM
In article <[email protected]>, "Phil P." >
wrote:

>
> To avoid a kidney crisis, simply choose a conservative and reversible
> therapy such as oral or transdermal methimazole and monitor her kidney
> values. If her kidney values (BUN/Cr) rise while she's taking methimazole
> simply manipulate the dose until you strike a balance between an
> "acceptable" level of hyperthyroidism and an "acceptable" level of azotemia.
> OTOH, if her kidney values remain stable while on methimazole, she'd
> probably be a low-risk candidate for I-131- which is a permanent cure.
> That's the route I took with my hyperthyroid cat two years ago and she's
> been thriving ever since.

Thank you. I doubt we'll do the iodine treatment, but we really have to
take one day at a time I suppose. I'll be talking to my vet about all
of this on Thursday. Meanwhile, I've gotten her to eat a bit and bought
her some junk food to try as well. When she wasn't interested in kitty
crack (Evo dry), that was the real shocker.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Phil P.
June 10th 08, 01:09 PM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote:
> >
>
> Phil, you are so good on so many issues, but have been particularly
helpful
> on this one, for me. Boo is doing great, by the way. Shiny, feisty, and
> trim.

I'm glad to hear she's doing great and that I was able to help.

Thankfully, my little 14 y/o has also been doing great since the I-131 tx 2
years ago. I'm not sure I would have opted for the I-131 tx if she didn't
become inappetent from methimazole, but now I'm glad I did.

Janet Boss
June 10th 08, 01:15 PM
Just an update here - I've gotten her eating with the Cyproheptadine.
She actually ASKED for dinner and breakfast. Unfortunately, she also
barfed a few times and peed on the loveseat and had loose stool in her
box. She had solid stool in her box this morning though. She's still
pretty weak and fragile. We'll keep plugging until Thursday and hope
our vet visit is optimistic.

It's 100 degrees here and we have AC on of course. She gets cold
easily. I've tried heating her warm pad and giving her a blanket in her
bed to snuggle into, but she gets annoyed. She insists on hanging out
in the family room cat bed, although the guest room one is a lot warmer.
I may have to move her stuff up there and force the issue. I can't
believe that feeling warmer would be a bad thing!

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Phil P.
June 10th 08, 01:16 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Phil P." >
> wrote:
>
> >
> > To avoid a kidney crisis, simply choose a conservative and reversible
> > therapy such as oral or transdermal methimazole and monitor her kidney
> > values. If her kidney values (BUN/Cr) rise while she's taking
methimazole
> > simply manipulate the dose until you strike a balance between an
> > "acceptable" level of hyperthyroidism and an "acceptable" level of
azotemia.
> > OTOH, if her kidney values remain stable while on methimazole, she'd
> > probably be a low-risk candidate for I-131- which is a permanent cure.
> > That's the route I took with my hyperthyroid cat two years ago and she's
> > been thriving ever since.
>
> Thank you. I doubt we'll do the iodine treatment, but we really have to
> take one day at a time I suppose.

You might not have a choice. 15-20% of the cats treated with methimazole
develop adverse reactions- one of which is inappetence as my cat did. It
wasn't from the bitter taste since I put the pill in a #4 gelcap so she
never tasted the med. I also tried the flavored suspension and the
transdermal gel.

If you decide to treat her with methimazole, I strongly suggest you put the
pill in a gelcap because if she ever gets a taste of the stuff pilling her
will become a nightmare.

Good luck,

Phil

Janet Boss
June 10th 08, 01:24 PM
In article <[email protected]>, "Phil P." >
wrote:

>
> If you decide to treat her with methimazole, I strongly suggest you put the
> pill in a gelcap because if she ever gets a taste of the stuff pilling her
> will become a nightmare.

Where do I get gelcaps? I'll go hunting. She is very easy to pill and
I sure don't want to ruin that!

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet Boss
June 10th 08, 01:28 PM
In article >,
Janet Boss > wrote:

> Where do I get gelcaps?

Answering myself, it looks like I can get them at the Vitamin Shoppe.
Good deal.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Rene S.
June 10th 08, 02:00 PM
On Jun 10, 7:15*am, Janet Boss >
wrote:
> Just an update here - I've gotten her eating with the Cyproheptadine. * *
> She actually ASKED for dinner and breakfast. *Unfortunately, she also
> barfed a few times and peed on the loveseat and had loose stool in her
> box. * *She had solid stool in her box this morning though. *She's still
> pretty weak and fragile. *We'll keep plugging until Thursday and hope
> our vet visit is optimistic.

This is (mostly) good news! Here's hoping she'll keep eating until the
appointment.

Lynne
June 11th 08, 02:21 AM
Janet Boss wrote:

> Thank you. I doubt we'll do the iodine treatment, but we really have to
> take one day at a time I suppose. I'll be talking to my vet about all
> of this on Thursday. Meanwhile, I've gotten her to eat a bit and bought
> her some junk food to try as well. When she wasn't interested in kitty
> crack (Evo dry), that was the real shocker.

Hi Janet. I'm so sorry Carrie is having such serious problems. I'll be
watching for an update from you, and hoping for the best.

Hugs to you and yours!

Cathy F.[_2_]
June 15th 08, 08:26 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> My Carey cat, who has has problems for the last 6+ years, none of them
> successfully diagnosed (despite numerous vets and specialists and
> tests), has finally been diagnosed as hyperthyroid, which I have
> suspected all along, but tests did not indicate. Her urine output has
> increased dramatically the last few weeks and has been happening outside
> of the box as well as in. She has dropped even more weight and although
> the vet office weighed her at 5#, she was moving around a bit and I
> don't believe she's actually that much.
>
> She is not interested in eating. I got her favorite roasted chicken,
> and while she'll take a bite or two, that's it. I have had to take her
> to her food, as she has not come in to the room seeking it. I offered
> her food off my plate last evening and it was ignored. We usually let
> her clean off our dinner plates and it is a highlight of her day.
>
> While I know that tapazole is a possibility as well as radioactive
> iodine, I'm concerned that there is and underlying issue that is causing
> her to not eat, and also aware that the hyperthyroid treatments could
> send her kidneys into a tailspin. I don't want to just let her fade
> away, but don't want to cause her pain either. She is barely sustaining
> herself at this point.
>
> She got sub-Q fluids on Wednesday, and rallied a bit, but she's back to
> just staying in her cat bed for the most part. I'm assuming that
> there is probably some cancer at play, as we all expect a hyperthyroid
> cat to be ravenous. She has not been and is not now.
>
> I have to think about this practically along with the emotional part,
> and her 15th birthday is in a bit over a month. We have another
> appointment at the vet on Thursday and I'm feeling a bit lost about what
> course of action to take.
>
> Any actual experiences with a cat with this particular combination of
> symptoms/diagnoses would be welcome.

I would *definitely* get her treated for her hyperthyroidism, prob. via
Tapazole/methimazole (generic), partly since it could be done immediately.
A dosage is started, then bloodwork is done as a follow-up, & dosage
adjusted if necessary. Hyperthyroidism affects the rest of the body's
organs, stressing them out, so is important that it's treated.

AFAIK, treating one (cat, human, whoever) for hyer-T doesn't put them in a
renal failure tailspin. I haven't had a cat with the exact combo of
symptoms, but... I'm hyer-T (it works basically the same way in cats &
humans, incl. treatment), one of my cats was, & two cats have had CRF/renal
failure.

Good luck for her.

Cathy


>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Cathy F.[_2_]
June 15th 08, 08:30 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Phil P." >
> wrote:
>
>>
>> To avoid a kidney crisis, simply choose a conservative and reversible
>> therapy such as oral or transdermal methimazole and monitor her kidney
>> values. If her kidney values (BUN/Cr) rise while she's taking methimazole
>> simply manipulate the dose until you strike a balance between an
>> "acceptable" level of hyperthyroidism and an "acceptable" level of
>> azotemia.
>> OTOH, if her kidney values remain stable while on methimazole, she'd
>> probably be a low-risk candidate for I-131- which is a permanent cure.
>> That's the route I took with my hyperthyroid cat two years ago and she's
>> been thriving ever since.
>
> Thank you. I doubt we'll do the iodine treatment, but we really have to
> take one day at a time I suppose. I'll be talking to my vet about all
> of this on Thursday. Meanwhile, I've gotten her to eat a bit and bought
> her some junk food to try as well. When she wasn't interested in kitty
> crack (Evo dry), that was the real shocker.

If a cat isn't eating, even junk food is better than nothing.

Oh, & an antihistamine for humans - Periactin, also happens to act an
appetite stimulant for cats. It's worked well for 2 of my cats.

Plus there's Hill's Prescription Diet a/d - a canned food (available at the
vet's) which I've used with success in the past when a cat has lost her
appetite due to medical reasons.

Cathy

Janet Boss
June 15th 08, 09:05 PM
In article >,
"Cathy F." > wrote:

>
> Oh, & an antihistamine for humans - Periactin, also happens to act an
> appetite stimulant for cats. It's worked well for 2 of my cats.

Yes, we gave that (Cyproheptadine) with little result.

Thank you all for your words. We said goodbye to Carey on Thursday
afternoon. She was in very bad condition and we've been fighting a lot
of unknowns for over 6 years. I miss her dearly already, but know that
she's at peace.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Cathy F.[_2_]
June 15th 08, 09:15 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Cathy F." > wrote:
>
>>
>> Oh, & an antihistamine for humans - Periactin, also happens to act an
>> appetite stimulant for cats. It's worked well for 2 of my cats.
>
> Yes, we gave that (Cyproheptadine) with little result.

Cyproheptadine - was trying to remember its generic name & waouldn't come to
me at that point.
>
> Thank you all for your words. We said goodbye to Carey on Thursday
> afternoon. She was in very bad condition and we've been fighting a lot
> of unknowns for over 6 years. I miss her dearly already, but know that
> she's at peace.

I'm very sorry - after I posted, I noticed the lag in time stamps... didn't
see other follow-up posts, & hoped she was okay/stabilized; except she
wasn't.

Cathy

Janet Boss
June 15th 08, 09:21 PM
In article >,
"Cathy F." > wrote:

>
> I'm very sorry - after I posted, I noticed the lag in time stamps... didn't
> see other follow-up posts, & hoped she was okay/stabilized; except she
> wasn't.

Thanks. I was trying to be more hopeful than the reality of the
situation. The only bad thing about loving pets is having to say
goodbye.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Cathy F.[_2_]
June 15th 08, 09:30 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Cathy F." > wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm very sorry - after I posted, I noticed the lag in time stamps...
>> didn't
>> see other follow-up posts, & hoped she was okay/stabilized; except she
>> wasn't.
>
> Thanks. I was trying to be more hopeful than the reality of the
> situation.

Well, sometimes there is an unexpected good turn-around.

> The only bad thing about loving pets is having to say
> goodbye.

Yep. Although so far I've found the lead-up time (knowing it's going to end
at some point & needing to make the correct/timely decision) to the
euthanasia worse than the process/death itself. One of my cats presently has
a latent (very latent) vaccine-induced fibrosarcoma. I know at some point
it's going to make itself known to her & I'll have to make a decision, re:
euthanasia. But she is blissfully ignorant of the situation at this point!

Cathy