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MDJ
June 18th 08, 03:16 PM
(I have also posted this to alt.med.veterinary as I need as much help
as I can get!)

Hello all,
My 2 1/2 year old neutered cat suddenly came down with FLUTD (Feline
Lower Urinary Tract Disease) and spent the past day and a half in the
hospital. I brought him home late yesterday afternoon because he would
NOT eat the SD food for the vet in hopes that he would eat once home.
He had a great night, ate a little (1 tsp or so) of SD and about a
tablespoon of SO kibble. Drank lots of water. Played, purred, had a
decent little pee, (about the size of a large egg yolk last night,
about half that size sometime in the middle of the night) slept, woke
up happy and sweet and now he's doing the mad litter box prowl that
ended him up in the hospital the other day. We set up litter boxes
throughout the apartment to help him out and he has been going between
all of them. Right now there are only small dribbles coming out at any
time, but he does seem to be passing at least some urine.
Here are the vet's findings:
No blockage
No bacteria
BUN & Creatnine okay (bloodwork)
Struvite crystals in urine (urinalysis)
"sludge" in bladder
X-ray done, no obvious stones; ultrasound done, sludge seen

Treatment: Sub-q fluids once a day, 100 cc; Clavamox 2x a day; Metacam
once a day; Dasuquin feline (which I didn't give last night because I
really wanted him to eat, and didn't think he would if I sprinkled it
on his food)

Here's where I need help. He has not eaten this morning. This pacing
zombie like is driving me crazy... how long might it last? What if he
WON'T eat? The vet has told me that there is no medication that will
dissolve the crystals, only the food will make his urine (acidic?) so
that it's able to break them down. I gave him the Clavamox this
morning, but I'm concerned about his eating, or lack of. He is a
healthy, hefty kitty, 11.8 lbs, not fat. But overall, I would just
like to hear from anyone else who has gone through this and how long
the behavior will last until he is relieved enough to pass the urine.
Any personal experiences with this would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance...
Jen

Rene S.
June 18th 08, 03:21 PM
> Treatment: Sub-q fluids once a day, 100 cc; Clavamox 2x a day; Metacam
> once a day; Dasuquin feline (which I didn't give last night because I
> really wanted him to eat, and didn't think he would if I sprinkled it
> on his food)

Jen,

I've heard that Clavamox can make a cat go off its food, so that's
likely what's happening. Call your vet and see if you can get a
different antibiotic. In the meantime, give him anything that will
tempt him to eat (short term, of course): ham or turkey baby food
without onions, ham lunch meat, etc. Warm it slightly so it's more
appealing.

Rene

Phil P.
June 18th 08, 06:14 PM
"MDJ" > wrote in message
...
> (I have also posted this to alt.med.veterinary as I need as much help
> as I can get!)
>
> Hello all,
> My 2 1/2 year old neutered cat suddenly came down with FLUTD (Feline
> Lower Urinary Tract Disease) and spent the past day and a half in the
> hospital. I brought him home late yesterday afternoon because he would
> NOT eat the SD food for the vet in hopes that he would eat once home.
> He had a great night, ate a little (1 tsp or so) of SD and about a
> tablespoon of SO kibble. Drank lots of water. Played, purred, had a
> decent little pee, (about the size of a large egg yolk last night,
> about half that size sometime in the middle of the night) slept, woke
> up happy and sweet and now he's doing the mad litter box prowl that
> ended him up in the hospital the other day. We set up litter boxes
> throughout the apartment to help him out and he has been going between
> all of them. Right now there are only small dribbles coming out at any
> time, but he does seem to be passing at least some urine.
> Here are the vet's findings:
> No blockage
> No bacteria
> BUN & Creatnine okay (bloodwork)
> Struvite crystals in urine (urinalysis)
> "sludge" in bladder
> X-ray done, no obvious stones; ultrasound done, sludge seen
>
> Treatment: Sub-q fluids once a day, 100 cc; Clavamox 2x a day; Metacam
> once a day; Dasuquin feline (which I didn't give last night because I
> really wanted him to eat, and didn't think he would if I sprinkled it
> on his food)
>
> Here's where I need help. He has not eaten this morning. This pacing
> zombie like is driving me crazy... how long might it last? What if he
> WON'T eat? The vet has told me that there is no medication that will
> dissolve the crystals, only the food will make his urine (acidic?)

If the crystals are struvite (magnesium ammonium phosphate) That's
incorrect. DL-methionine- an amino acid supplement- can be used to acidify
the urine and dissolve struvite. However, you should not feed your cat a
highly acidified diet while giving him a DL-methionine supplement because
the added acidification can lead to metabolic acidosis and hemolytic anemia.
DL-methionine should only be used under the *strict supervision* of a vet
and as a last resort. Its sold under the brand name Methio-Form, Methio-Tabs
((Vet-A-Mix).

You might also want to get a second opinion on giving him Metacam daily PO.
Oral dosing of Metacam is infamous for causing acute renal failure in cats.
Metacam is only licensed for cats as a *one time*, IM dose after surgery for
this very reason.

You can also help increase urine acidity by feeding him a low-carbohydrate,
meat or fish-based food. Sulfur-containing amino acids, phospholipids, and
phosphoproteins found in higher quantities in meat acidify the urine,
whereas organic acids, which come primarily from plant material, have an
alkalinizing effect on urine. Fancy Feast makes some of the lowest
carbohydrate diets on the market: some contain less than 1%. Not many cats
can resist Fancy Feast.

But my best advice is find another vet ASAP- one who is better educated in
feline physiology before your present vet kills your cat.

Best of luck,

Phil

MDJ
June 18th 08, 07:46 PM
On Jun 18, 10:14 am, "Phil P." > wrote:
> "MDJ" > wrote in message

<snipped>
>
> If the crystals are struvite (magnesium ammonium phosphate) That's
> incorrect. DL-methionine- an amino acid supplement- can be used to acidify
> the urine and dissolve struvite. However, you should not feed your cat a
> highly acidified diet while giving him a DL-methionine supplement because
> the added acidification can lead to metabolic acidosis and hemolytic anemia.
> DL-methionine should only be used under the *strict supervision* of a vet
> and as a last resort. Its sold under the brand name Methio-Form, Methio-Tabs
> ((Vet-A-Mix).
>

I've had this kitty to three vets over the course of 4 days; one on
Sunday (b/c he was open and kitty was acting strange) where they did
the urinalysis, my regular vet on Monday, where she was concerned
about him potentially getting blocked and they do not have 24 hour
supervision, and then to a 24-hour care vet so he could be monitored
at all times. I am pretty sure they said struvite crystals as the SD
food is supposed to help dissolve those, but it's difficult to get him
to eat it. I might try to mix it with something else.

> You might also want to get a second opinion on giving him Metacam daily PO.
> Oral dosing of Metacam is infamous for causing acute renal failure in cats.
> Metacam is only licensed for cats as a *one time*, IM dose after surgery for
> this very reason.
>

The Metacam was given to him I believe four times at the vet, and they
gave me two doses for the next two days and that's all. I hope that
isn't excessive! They did test his kidney values before administering
anything, and since he's quite young I'm guessing they thought it was
okay. I will call my regular vet, who has not seen him since all this
treatment, and get her opinion on the regemine. He is also on sub-q
fluids so hopefully this will help his kidneys handle these
medications.

> You can also help increase urine acidity by feeding him a low-carbohydrate,
> meat or fish-based food. Sulfur-containing amino acids, phospholipids, and
> phosphoproteins found in higher quantities in meat acidify the urine,
> whereas organic acids, which come primarily from plant material, have an
> alkalinizing effect on urine. Fancy Feast makes some of the lowest
> carbohydrate diets on the market: some contain less than 1%. Not many cats
> can resist Fancy Feast.
>
> But my best advice is find another vet ASAP- one who is better educated in
> feline physiology before your present vet kills your cat.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> Phil

The vet at the 24-hour facility said that they do deal with this quite
frequently and that this is their protocol. Incidentally, he is being
overseen by two vets at this particular facility and they all said
very similar things. They did say that they could give him a
medication that would increase his appetite and since he's only eaten
a small amount of this so-important food, I am going to inquire about
this today.
Incidentally, what is your experience with this condition?

dejablues[_4_]
June 19th 08, 01:02 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "MDJ" > wrote in message
> ...
>> (I have also posted this to alt.med.veterinary as I need as much help
>> as I can get!)
>>
>> Hello all,
>> My 2 1/2 year old neutered cat suddenly came down with FLUTD (Feline
>> Lower Urinary Tract Disease) and spent the past day and a half in the
>> hospital. I brought him home late yesterday afternoon because he would
>> NOT eat the SD food for the vet in hopes that he would eat once home.
>> He had a great night, ate a little (1 tsp or so) of SD and about a
>> tablespoon of SO kibble. Drank lots of water. Played, purred, had a
>> decent little pee, (about the size of a large egg yolk last night,
>> about half that size sometime in the middle of the night) slept, woke
>> up happy and sweet and now he's doing the mad litter box prowl that
>> ended him up in the hospital the other day. We set up litter boxes
>> throughout the apartment to help him out and he has been going between
>> all of them. Right now there are only small dribbles coming out at any
>> time, but he does seem to be passing at least some urine.
>> Here are the vet's findings:
>> No blockage
>> No bacteria
>> BUN & Creatnine okay (bloodwork)
>> Struvite crystals in urine (urinalysis)
>> "sludge" in bladder
>> X-ray done, no obvious stones; ultrasound done, sludge seen
>>
>> Treatment: Sub-q fluids once a day, 100 cc; Clavamox 2x a day; Metacam
>> once a day; Dasuquin feline (which I didn't give last night because I
>> really wanted him to eat, and didn't think he would if I sprinkled it
>> on his food)
>>
>> Here's where I need help. He has not eaten this morning. This pacing
>> zombie like is driving me crazy... how long might it last? What if he
>> WON'T eat? The vet has told me that there is no medication that will
>> dissolve the crystals, only the food will make his urine (acidic?)
>
> If the crystals are struvite (magnesium ammonium phosphate) That's
> incorrect. DL-methionine- an amino acid supplement- can be used to acidify
> the urine and dissolve struvite. However, you should not feed your cat a
> highly acidified diet while giving him a DL-methionine supplement because
> the added acidification can lead to metabolic acidosis and hemolytic
> anemia.
> DL-methionine should only be used under the *strict supervision* of a vet
> and as a last resort. Its sold under the brand name Methio-Form,
> Methio-Tabs
> ((Vet-A-Mix).
>
> You might also want to get a second opinion on giving him Metacam daily
> PO.
> Oral dosing of Metacam is infamous for causing acute renal failure in
> cats.
> Metacam is only licensed for cats as a *one time*, IM dose after surgery
> for
> this very reason.
>
> You can also help increase urine acidity by feeding him a
> low-carbohydrate,
> meat or fish-based food. Sulfur-containing amino acids, phospholipids,
> and
> phosphoproteins found in higher quantities in meat acidify the urine,
> whereas organic acids, which come primarily from plant material, have an
> alkalinizing effect on urine. Fancy Feast makes some of the lowest
> carbohydrate diets on the market: some contain less than 1%. Not many cats
> can resist Fancy Feast.
>
> But my best advice is find another vet ASAP- one who is better educated in
> feline physiology before your present vet kills your cat.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> Phil

At the beginning of (and after his surgery) our cats problems with urinary
blockage, he got diazepam, which relaxes smooth muscle tissue and stimulates
appetite.

Phil P.
June 19th 08, 01:10 PM
"MDJ" > wrote in message
...
> On Jun 18, 10:14 am, "Phil P." > wrote:
> > "MDJ" > wrote in message
>
> <snipped>
> >
> > If the crystals are struvite (magnesium ammonium phosphate) That's
> > incorrect. DL-methionine- an amino acid supplement- can be used to
acidify
> > the urine and dissolve struvite. However, you should not feed your cat
a
> > highly acidified diet while giving him a DL-methionine supplement
because
> > the added acidification can lead to metabolic acidosis and hemolytic
anemia.
> > DL-methionine should only be used under the *strict supervision* of a
vet
> > and as a last resort. Its sold under the brand name Methio-Form,
Methio-Tabs
> > ((Vet-A-Mix).
> >
>
> I've had this kitty to three vets over the course of 4 days; one on
> Sunday (b/c he was open and kitty was acting strange) where they did
> the urinalysis, my regular vet on Monday, where she was concerned
> about him potentially getting blocked and they do not have 24 hour
> supervision, and then to a 24-hour care vet so he could be monitored
> at all times. I am pretty sure they said struvite crystals as the SD
> food is supposed to help dissolve those, but it's difficult to get him
> to eat it. I might try to mix it with something else.

One of the most common side effects of meloxicam in cats is loss of
appetite. Try mixing the SD into a slurry with warm water- it will make the
food more tasty and more aromatic and will also increase his water
consumption and urine volume- which is the single most important thing you
can do. Higher urine volume will reduce the concentration of crystalline
particles in the urine and make them easier to eliminate. It will also make
him urine more frequently which will eliminate tiny crystalline particles
before they accrete or aggregate into crystals or uroliths.

>
> > You might also want to get a second opinion on giving him Metacam daily
PO.
> > Oral dosing of Metacam is infamous for causing acute renal failure in
cats.
> > Metacam is only licensed for cats as a *one time*, IM dose after surgery
for
> > this very reason.
> >
>
> The Metacam was given to him I believe four times at the vet, and they
> gave me two doses for the next two days and that's all. I hope that
> isn't excessive! They did test his kidney values before administering
> anything, and since he's quite young I'm guessing they thought it was
> okay. I will call my regular vet, who has not seen him since all this
> treatment, and get her opinion on the regemine. He is also on sub-q
> fluids so hopefully this will help his kidneys handle these
> medications.

If you can't get your hands on Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook or
Blackwell's 5-minute Veterinary Consult, Google "meloxicam and cats".
You'll find pages and pages of horror stories as well as serious warnings on
vet sites. Other common side effects of meloxicam are vomiting or diarrhea,
stomach ulceration, loss of kidney function, and inappropriate bleeding.

>
> > You can also help increase urine acidity by feeding him a
low-carbohydrate,
> > meat or fish-based food. Sulfur-containing amino acids, phospholipids,
and
> > phosphoproteins found in higher quantities in meat acidify the urine,
> > whereas organic acids, which come primarily from plant material, have an
> > alkalinizing effect on urine. Fancy Feast makes some of the lowest
> > carbohydrate diets on the market: some contain less than 1%. Not many
cats
> > can resist Fancy Feast.
> >
> > But my best advice is find another vet ASAP- one who is better educated
in
> > feline physiology before your present vet kills your cat.
> >
> > Best of luck,
> >
> > Phil
>
> The vet at the 24-hour facility said that they do deal with this quite
> frequently and that this is their protocol.

I wonder how many of their patients went into renal failure from meloxocam
that they blamed on urinary tract obstructions- which also produces a
pathophysiologic state equivalent to oliguric acute renal failure.


Incidentally, he is being
> overseen by two vets at this particular facility and they all said
> very similar things.

Vets in the same practice usually don't contradict each other even if one is
inept.


They did say that they could give him a
> medication that would increase his appetite and since he's only eaten
> a small amount of this so-important food, I am going to inquire about
> this today.


Cyprohepadine (a/k/a Periactin) and Mirtazapine have an appetite-stimulating
effect in cats- I think Mirtazapine works better and is more consistant.
Cypro doesn't work in all cats.


> Incidentally, what is your experience with this condition?

Been through it a few times.

Best of luck,

Phil

Phil P.
June 19th 08, 06:51 PM
"MDJ" > wrote in message
...

I am pretty sure they said struvite crystals as the SD
> food is supposed to help dissolve those,

If I were you, I'd make *absolutely* sure the crystals are composed of
struvite before continuing to feed him s/d because if they're calcium
oxalate--- the s/d will promote growth and calcium oxalate formation.

Calcium oxalate can't be dissolved medically or by diet. So, if I were you,
I'd make sure the vet gets the crystals analyzed. Microscopic examination
isn't good enough.

Phil

Rene S.
June 23rd 08, 02:32 PM
You should find this article helpful: http://community.webtv.net/getcathelp/urinarytract