PDA

View Full Version : Tom Cat wonít breed with in-season queen!??


dontcountstars
June 19th 08, 07:22 AM
I recently got a Queen to breed with my 3 year old tom cat. He is an
exceptional little guy in great health and I have guarenteed homes for
up to 7 kittens (just so you know im responsible!)

He often calls for a mate...howls etc whatever you like to call it,
yet now the queen is in season he is showing no interest at all. He is
very placid and seems almost worried or frightened when she squats in
front of him waggling her tail and growling excitedly. She has hissed
and smacked him in the past, could this have frightened him off?

I cant understand his complete lack of interest in mating, is it just
because he is inexperienced, or does this suggest it is a lost cause?

Also is there anything at all I can do?

--
Posted at author's request, using moderated http://www.PetForumz.com interface
Thread archive: http://www.PetForumz.com/Tom-Cat-won-breed-season-queen-ftopict72305.html

dgk
June 19th 08, 12:55 PM
On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 01:22:11 -0500, dontcountstars >
wrote:

>I recently got a Queen to breed with my 3 year old tom cat. He is an
>exceptional little guy in great health and I have guarenteed homes for
>up to 7 kittens (just so you know im responsible!)
>
>He often calls for a mate...howls etc whatever you like to call it,
>yet now the queen is in season he is showing no interest at all. He is
>very placid and seems almost worried or frightened when she squats in
>front of him waggling her tail and growling excitedly. She has hissed
>and smacked him in the past, could this have frightened him off?
>
>I cant understand his complete lack of interest in mating, is it just
>because he is inexperienced, or does this suggest it is a lost cause?
>
>Also is there anything at all I can do?


Maybe he's gay. I suppose you'll have him executed for failing to
provide you with saleable kittens?

Phil P.
June 19th 08, 01:40 PM
"dontcountstars" > wrote in message
news:[email protected] rumz.com...
> I recently got a Queen to breed with my 3 year old tom cat. He is an
> exceptional little guy in great health and I have guarenteed homes for
> up to 7 kittens (just so you know im responsible!)

How's that being responsible??? You're taking homes away from 7 kittens
that have already been born!

Do the feline species a favor- have him neutered.

Riannon via CatKB.com
June 19th 08, 06:45 PM
dontcountstars wrote:
>I recently got a Queen to breed with my 3 year old tom cat. He is an
>exceptional little guy in great health and I have guarenteed homes for
>up to 7 kittens (just so you know im responsible!)
>Also is there anything at all I can do?

Yes, you can get them spayed and neutered and not contribute to the
overpopulation of pets in this world. There are both ethical and medical
reasons why you should not have unaltered pets: Being a "responsible" pet
owner means not letting your pets mate with eachother:

http://www.vospca.org/archive/spayneut.html
http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/why_you_should_spay_or_neuter_your_pet.html



Riannon

--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200806/1

cybercat
June 19th 08, 06:59 PM
"dontcountstars" > wrote in message
news:[email protected] rumz.com...
>I recently got a Queen to breed with my 3 year old tom cat. He is an
> exceptional little guy in great health and I have guarenteed homes for
> up to 7 kittens (just so you know im responsible!)
>

There are at least 700 million beautiful cats and kittens who need homes
now.

ASSHOLE.

Phil P.
June 19th 08, 07:16 PM
"dontcountstars" > wrote in message
news:[email protected] rumz.com...
>
> I cant understand his complete lack of interest in mating,

Probably because he doesn't want his offspring- or the offspring of his
offspring- or their offspring to end up here:

http://maxshouse.com/Do_you_still_want_to_breed_your_cat.jpg

or here:

http://maxshouse.com/convinced_not%20_to_breed_yet.jpg


Still want to breed him?

dontcountstars
July 7th 08, 06:22 PM
Thankyou for your misjudged replies, however Iím doing nothing wrong.
Both cats are top quality pedigree from champion lines with health
checks and excellent temperament, and the people who want them arenít
interested in non-pedigree/non-show kittens. That is their choice, and
something you would have to speak to them about. I am only interested
in finding top quality homes for any kittens I breed, and making sure
I do my part to only breed from the best possible cats, so as to
further the progression of the breed.

Just so you know, I also am well aware of the problem with
overpopulation, I do a lot of volutary work at the local animal
sanctuary on a weekly basis, I foster cats for the Cats Protection
League, rehabilitating those who have been abused and are scared of
people, and hand rearing unwanted kittens, then I advertise and rehome
them, after personally paying for all of their vaccinations so as to
help out the charity even more, and all in my spare time. I also
regularly perform fundraisers for the UK animal charities, in the form
of raffles, car boot sales, sponsered events and so on, and also work
for free on the cat buses which go round the area performing free
neuterings. (Iím a qualified veterinary nurse) Do you do anything to
help, other than harrass people online?

Pedigree breedings are not to blame for overpopulation and abandoned
animals, and without the continuation of the many hundreds of year old
pedigree lines, these breeds would completely die out and become
extinct, which would be a terrible loss for mankind.

So really, I resent your assumption that I am an irresponsible,
morally bankrupt person, and feel that perhaps you should not jump to
conclusions next time, and also work on a better way to get your
message across, other than being inappropriately rude when someone
asks an innocent question.

Have a nice day :)

"Phil P." wrote:
> "dontcountstars" > wrote in message
> news:[email protected] rumz.com...
> >
> > I cant understand his complete lack of interest in mating,
>
> Probably because he doesn't want his offspring- or the
> offspring of his
> offspring- or their offspring to end up here:
>
> http://maxshouse.com/Do_you_still_want_to_breed_your_cat.jpg
>
> or here:
>
> http://maxshouse.com/convinced_not%20_to_breed_yet.jpg
>
>
> Still want to breed him?

Matthew[_3_]
July 7th 08, 07:55 PM
Oh please go pound tar




"dontcountstars" > wrote in message
news:[email protected] com...
> Thankyou for your misjudged replies, however I'm doing nothing wrong.
> Both cats are top quality pedigree from champion lines with health
> checks and excellent temperament, and the people who want them aren't
> interested in non-pedigree/non-show kittens. That is their choice, and
> something you would have to speak to them about. I am only interested
> in finding top quality homes for any kittens I breed, and making sure
> I do my part to only breed from the best possible cats, so as to
> further the progression of the breed.
>
> Just so you know, I also am well aware of the problem with
> overpopulation, I do a lot of volutary work at the local animal
> sanctuary on a weekly basis, I foster cats for the Cats Protection
> League, rehabilitating those who have been abused and are scared of
> people, and hand rearing unwanted kittens, then I advertise and rehome
> them, after personally paying for all of their vaccinations so as to
> help out the charity even more, and all in my spare time. I also
> regularly perform fundraisers for the UK animal charities, in the form
> of raffles, car boot sales, sponsered events and so on, and also work
> for free on the cat buses which go round the area performing free
> neuterings. (I'm a qualified veterinary nurse) Do you do anything to
> help, other than harrass people online?
>
> Pedigree breedings are not to blame for overpopulation and abandoned
> animals, and without the continuation of the many hundreds of year old
> pedigree lines, these breeds would completely die out and become
> extinct, which would be a terrible loss for mankind.
>
> So really, I resent your assumption that I am an irresponsible,
> morally bankrupt person, and feel that perhaps you should not jump to
> conclusions next time, and also work on a better way to get your
> message across, other than being inappropriately rude when someone
> asks an innocent question.
>
> Have a nice day :)
>
> "Phil P." wrote:
> > "dontcountstars" > wrote in message
> > news:[email protected] rumz.com...
> > >
> > > I cant understand his complete lack of interest in mating,
> >
> > Probably because he doesn't want his offspring- or the
> > offspring of his
> > offspring- or their offspring to end up here:
> >
> > http://maxshouse.com/Do_you_still_want_to_breed_your_cat.jpg
> >
> > or here:
> >
> > http://maxshouse.com/convinced_not%20_to_breed_yet.jpg
> >
> >
> > Still want to breed him?

CatNipped[_2_]
July 7th 08, 09:00 PM
"dontcountstars" > wrote in message
news:[email protected] com...

> neuterings. (I'm a qualified veterinary nurse) Do you do anything to
> help, other than harrass people online?

He he he! Got a couple of days to read a list of all that Phil P. does to
help cats?

>
> Pedigree breedings are not to blame for overpopulation and abandoned
> animals, and without the continuation of the many hundreds of year old
> pedigree lines, these breeds would completely die out and become
> extinct, which would be a terrible loss for mankind.

Which pedigree charactersitics are so beneficial to the cat population that
they should be perpetuated?

The smushed-in face of the Persian and Himalayan that causes problems like
breathing distress, eye tearing, and malocclusions? As a result of their
short and concave underlying facial bone structure, the lacrimal sac and the
nasolacrimal duct of most Persian cats is blocked at the lacrimal puncta,
causing an excessive coagulation of debris and an overflow of tears from the
lacrimal glands. Excessive tearing is a common characteristic of Persian
and Himalayan cats and is caused by abnormal drainage of tears and may
result in epiphora. The two lacrimal puncta are the small openings to the
canaliculi (ducts) leading to the lacrimal sac. The nasolacrimal duct drains
the sac into the nose. The ducts of the lacrimal system are already very
small in felines and the facial conformation of extremely short-nosed,
large-eyed cats, namely Persians and Himalayans, is the single most common
cause of occlusion (blockage) of the lacrimal system and resulting abnormal
drainage of tears. Consequently, because of the epiphora and the blocked
lacrimal system, Persian and Himalayan cats suffer from chronic eye
infections. Bacteria build up in the obstructed lacrimal passages and thrive
on the debris deposited from the coagulated tears, inducing chronic
conjunctivitis, with characteristic symptoms such as a brown, mucus-like
discharge from the eye, blinking, and an exposed third eyelid. Persians are
also prone to Autosomal Dominant Polycystic Kidney Disease.

How about the skeletal and other problems of Munchkins? A skeletal
condition called thoracic lordosis, causes back pain and pressure. Munchkins
are predisposed to compressions in the chest, which can put pressure on the
heart and lungs with sometime deadly results. They're also predisposed to
radial hypoplasia.

The Osteochondrodysplasia in Scottish Fold cats? If Scottish fold cats are
mated to other Scottish fold cats, many of the offspring developed a severe
crippling lameness early in life. Cats so affected had shortened, malformed
legs and radiographic abnormalities affecting the growth plates that could
be readily appreciated. As a result of this discovery, the breed was
outlawed by the Cat Fancy in the UK. Recent work conducted in Australia has
confirmed earlier work that the cartilage defect that causes the ears of
these cats to fold is transmitted as an autosomal dominant trait, but
established for the first time that heterozygous Scottish Fold cats
invariably become afflicted by a progressive arthritis that varies in
severity from Fold to Fold.

There is also Autosomal Recessive Problems in Devon Rex cats if you don't
like any of the above. Two important autosomally recessive conditions have
been reported in Devon Rex cats, and interestingly the research concerning
these diseases has been done mostly in Australia. 'Spasticity' as it is
known to breeders, refers to a congenital myopathy somewhat similar to the
human condition limb girdle muscular dystrophy. Work done in the UK
established that the condition was inherited in an autosomal recessive
fashion with complete penetrance. Affected cats usually show obvious signs
of a locomotor problem when six to 20 weeks of age. Muscle weakness is the
predominant feature, with prominent ventroflexion of the head and neck,
dorsal protrusion of the scapulae, head bobbing, megaoesophagus and
pharyngeal weakness. Affected cats have a generally unsatisfactory quality
of life and are at risk of sudden death due to obstruction of the
pharynx/larynx with food. Detailed studies done in collaboration with
Professor Clive Harper have shown the underlying problem to be a primary
muscle disorder, although the molecular basis of the condition has not yet
been determined.
Oh, hell, here's a list compiled for you including some I missed in the
above (data taken from Medical, Genetic, & Behavioral Aspects of Purebred
Cats; Ross D.Clark, DVM, Forum Publications, Fairway Kansas, 1992)...

Abyssinians? Renal amyloidosis, retinal atrophy, psychogenic alopecia,
patellarluxation.

American Shorthair? Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, polycystic kidney disease,
mucopolysaccharosidosis.

Bengal? Entropion.

Birman? Hip dysplasia, epibulbar dermoids

British Shorthair? Hemophilia

Burmese? Ocular dermoids, primary endocaridal
fibroelastosis,meningoencephalocele, keratoconjunctivitis sicca, erosion of
cartilage of third eyelid,lethal midfacial malformation.

Chartreux? Patellar luxation, hip dysplasia.

Cornish Rex? Hypothyroidism, hypotrichosis.

Devon Rex? Hypothyroidism, patellar luxation, hip dysplasia, hypotrichosis,
spasticity (prevents swallowing).

Himalayan? Cataracts, psychogenic alopecia, cutaneous asthenia, polycystic
kidneydisease.

Korat? Gangliosidosis.

Maine Coon? Pectus excavatum, patellar luxation, hip dysplasia,
hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

Manx? Spina bifida, atresia ani, rectal prolapse, corneal dystrophy.

Persian? Chediak-Higashi syndrome, congenital ankyloblepharon,
entropion,congenital epiphora, primary glaucoma, mannosidosis, seborrhea,
polycystic kidneydisease, peripheral pseudocysts, patellar luxation, hip
dysplasia.

Ragdoll? Hypertrophic cardiomyopathyScottish Fold. Severe vertebral
abnormalities, prognathis, incapacitating joint diseasewith fold to fold
breeding, polycystic kidney disease.

Siamese? Feline hyperesthesia syndrome, feline endocrine alopecia,
adenocarcinomasof the small intestine, mucopolysaccharidosis,
gangliosidosis, malignant mammarytumors, numerous congenital heart defects
(PDA, aortic stenosis, AV valve malformation, pyloric stenosis, etc),
primary endocardial fibroelastosis, strabismus,nystagmus, sphingomyelinosis,
hydrocephalus, asthma, mast cell tumors, cutaneousasthenia, esophageal
hypomotility, cutaneous mastocytomas, hypotrichosis, glaucoma,cervical neck
lesions, hip dysplasia Somali.GingivitisSphinx.Spasticity, alopecia
universalis.

Tonkinese? Susceptible to upper respiratory infection, sensitivity to
vaccines.

Yes, indeed, there are so many reasons to keep breeding "pure-bred" cats
until, like over-bred dogs, every single breed has its concommitant (usually
painful, often deadly) defects - while perfectly healthy moggies are
euthanized for want of a home.

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> So really, I resent your assumption that I am an irresponsible,
> morally bankrupt person, and feel that perhaps you should not jump to
> conclusions next time, and also work on a better way to get your
> message across, other than being inappropriately rude when someone
> asks an innocent question.

There was no assumption, only fact - and *I* resent *you* and all you stand
for.

cybercat
July 7th 08, 09:12 PM
"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> "dontcountstars" > wrote in message
> news:[email protected] com...
>
>> neuterings. (I'm a qualified veterinary nurse) Do you do anything to
>> help, other than harrass people online?
>
> He he he! Got a couple of days to read a list of all that Phil P. does to
> help cats?
>

[Snips CN's excellent, detailed, thoughtful and accurate post.]

Good work! You will notice that I just killfile these assholes. I am
glad someone can be bothered to try to talk some sense into them.
I get too upset when I try, and when Mama ain't happy ain't
NOBODY happy. (In other words, I have to stop making assholes
like this so mad they try to hunt me down and hurt my feelings.)

:)

cybercat
July 7th 08, 09:13 PM
"CatNipped" > wrote >
> Yes, indeed, there are so many reasons to keep breeding "pure-bred" cats
> until, like over-bred dogs, every single breed has its concommitant
> (usually painful, often deadly) defects - while perfectly healthy moggies
> are euthanized for want of a home.
>

This be mah favrit part. :)

CatNipped[_2_]
July 7th 08, 09:49 PM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CatNipped" > wrote >
>> Yes, indeed, there are so many reasons to keep breeding "pure-bred" cats
>> until, like over-bred dogs, every single breed has its concommitant
>> (usually painful, often deadly) defects - while perfectly healthy moggies
>> are euthanized for want of a home.
>>
>
> This be mah favrit part. :)

Thanks. I know I shouldn't bother replying because it will do absolutely no
good, but every once in a while I can't help myself, I just have to scream
to the heavens and hope logic prevails! ;>

Hugs,

CatNipped

CatNipped[_2_]
July 7th 08, 09:51 PM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "dontcountstars" > wrote in message
>> news:[email protected] com...
>>
>>> neuterings. (I'm a qualified veterinary nurse) Do you do anything to
>>> help, other than harrass people online?
>>
>> He he he! Got a couple of days to read a list of all that Phil P. does
>> to help cats?
>>
>
> [Snips CN's excellent, detailed, thoughtful and accurate post.]
>
> Good work! You will notice that I just killfile these assholes. I am
> glad someone can be bothered to try to talk some sense into them.
> I get too upset when I try, and when Mama ain't happy ain't
> NOBODY happy. (In other words, I have to stop making assholes
> like this so mad they try to hunt me down and hurt my feelings.)
>
> :)

Oh no - you should take pride in what you do best! I *wish* I had your
ability to skewer the terminally stupid! ;>

Hugs,

CatNipped

cybercat
July 7th 08, 09:59 PM
"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "CatNipped" > wrote >
>>> Yes, indeed, there are so many reasons to keep breeding "pure-bred" cats
>>> until, like over-bred dogs, every single breed has its concommitant
>>> (usually painful, often deadly) defects - while perfectly healthy
>>> moggies are euthanized for want of a home.
>>>
>>
>> This be mah favrit part. :)
>
> Thanks. I know I shouldn't bother replying because it will do absolutely
> no good, but every once in a while I can't help myself, I just have to
> scream to the heavens and hope logic prevails! ;>
>


No, it is really good that you are willing to do this. I wish I were not too
disgusted
to bother. You do more good than I do.

cybercat
July 7th 08, 10:00 PM
"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "dontcountstars" > wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected] com...
>>>
>>>> neuterings. (I'm a qualified veterinary nurse) Do you do anything to
>>>> help, other than harrass people online?
>>>
>>> He he he! Got a couple of days to read a list of all that Phil P. does
>>> to help cats?
>>>
>>
>> [Snips CN's excellent, detailed, thoughtful and accurate post.]
>>
>> Good work! You will notice that I just killfile these assholes. I am
>> glad someone can be bothered to try to talk some sense into them.
>> I get too upset when I try, and when Mama ain't happy ain't
>> NOBODY happy. (In other words, I have to stop making assholes
>> like this so mad they try to hunt me down and hurt my feelings.)
>>
>> :)
>
> Oh no - you should take pride in what you do best! I *wish* I had your
> ability to skewer the terminally stupid! ;>
>
You can convert more cat abusers with information, though. Good work, CN. I
admire your dedication.

CatNipped[_2_]
July 7th 08, 10:02 PM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "cybercat" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "dontcountstars" > wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected] com...
>>>>
>>>>> neuterings. (I'm a qualified veterinary nurse) Do you do anything to
>>>>> help, other than harrass people online?
>>>>
>>>> He he he! Got a couple of days to read a list of all that Phil P. does
>>>> to help cats?
>>>>
>>>
>>> [Snips CN's excellent, detailed, thoughtful and accurate post.]
>>>
>>> Good work! You will notice that I just killfile these assholes. I am
>>> glad someone can be bothered to try to talk some sense into them.
>>> I get too upset when I try, and when Mama ain't happy ain't
>>> NOBODY happy. (In other words, I have to stop making assholes
>>> like this so mad they try to hunt me down and hurt my feelings.)
>>>
>>> :)
>>
>> Oh no - you should take pride in what you do best! I *wish* I had your
>> ability to skewer the terminally stupid! ;>
>>
> You can convert more cat abusers with information, though. Good work, CN.
> I admire your dedication.

Thanks, I just wish I had the time and resources to put words to action like
Phil does - he's the real hero!

Hugs,

CatNipped

CatNipped[_2_]
July 7th 08, 10:11 PM
"Cheryl" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon 07 Jul 2008 04:00:55p, CatNipped wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> >:
>
>> Which pedigree charactersitics are so beneficial to the cat
>> population that they should be perpetuated?
>
> Sorry for snipping all the rest, including the OP but still have
> computer problems. lol
>
> Great post. Not to mention the health risks to queen including
> pyometra and mammary cancer.
>
> Another another thing, don't "reputable" breeders have resources
> other than a newsgroup to ask these questions? The same old MO. They
> ask a question and then when challenged they post the "missing" info
> to make themselves feel better. pfft.
>
>
> --
> Cheryl

What breeders - both legitimate and backyard - don't seem to get is the
extrapolation from the data I posted. The breeds with the most / worst
defects are the "older" breeds like the Persian and Siamese - the ones who
have been bred the longest. Ergo, the more you breed for specific traits
(inbreeding if truth be told), the worse you make it the breed - and the
more tragic the consequences for the cat.

Another thing that drives me crazy is when breeders say, "Well my clients
don't want a moggie, they will only buy a pure-bred". Well, how wonderful
would it be if the people who only want pure-bred status symbols won't have
a cat to abuse or throw away if it goes out of "style", and only people who
truly love cats and want to add a member to their families are the only ones
who *get* cats!

*SIGH* I'm preaching to the choir, I know!

Hugs,

CatNipped

Phil P.
July 8th 08, 06:34 AM
"dontcountstars" > wrote in message
news:[email protected] com...
> Thankyou for your misjudged replies,

I'd say my replies were right on target. You welcome.


> however I'm doing nothing wrong.


As long as you're breeding cats while cats are dying in shelters because
there aren't enough homes- you can bet your "irresponsible,
morally bankrupt" ass you're doing something wrong.


<snip- not interested your opinion of your cats' credentials>

I am only interested
> in finding top quality homes for any kittens I breed,

....and every top quality home you find for your intentionally bred cats, is
one home less for a cat languishing in a shelter where she'll be eventually
killed.



and making sure
> I do my part to only breed from the best possible cats,


If you want to do your part for the feline species- don't breed any more
cats.

so as to
> further the progression of the breed.


"Progression of the breed"... sounds like a phrase straight out of Mein
Kampf. The cats don't need you to further the progression of the species.
They were doing just fine before you circle-jerking 50-cent geneticists
started "improving" them. Your kind really "improved" the Himalayans... and
the Persians... and the Siamese, didn't you? You bred genetic defects into
those breeds that never before exisited in nature.

If you really want to further the progression of the breed-- leeeaaavvveee
them the **** alone.


>
> Just so you know, I also am well aware of the problem with
> overpopulation,


You are? And you *still* want to breed more cats??? Whar are you, a moron or
just a "irresponsible, morally bankrupt person"?




I do a lot of volutary work at the local animal
> sanctuary

....between breeding more cats? What do you there? Try to make room for the
cats whose homes were displaced by your kittens?


>(I'm a qualified veterinary nurse)


Credentials don't guarantee credibility- one can exist without the other.
You're a shining example! You're a "qualified veterinary nurse" and you have
to come to a newsgroup to ask a stupid question? How did you get your
credentials? From a matchbook cover?


Do you do anything to
> help, other than harrass people online?

Yeah, I do- but I'm not doing it right now because I'm harrassing you for
contributing to the cat overpopulation problem.

>
> Pedigree breedings are not to blame for overpopulation and abandoned
> animals,

Naaa, you just contribute to the overpopulation problem. You're just like a
fool who pours gas on a fire and doesn't take responsibility for the damage
because he didn't start the fire.



and without the continuation of the many hundreds of year old
> pedigree lines, these breeds would completely die out and become
> extinct, which would be a terrible loss for mankind.


Half of those breeds didn't exist in nature to begin with, - and the other
half have genetic defects from circle-jerking, 50-cent geneticists like you
trying to "improve" the breeds.



>
> So really, I resent your assumption that I am an irresponsible,
> morally bankrupt person,


I'm glad to hear it! After reading your reply, I see my assumption was
correct!


and feel that perhaps you should not jump to
> conclusions next time,

Why not? My conclusions were correct.


and also work on a better way to get your
> message across,


I *have* a better way. But if you don't like this way, you damn sure
wouldn't like my "better way"..


other than being inappropriately rude when someone
> asks an innocent question.

Its impossible to be "inappropriately rude" to a breeder- I could never be
rude enough to a breeder-- and I'm really good at being rude!

The only good thing about breeders is no matter what I say or do to them- I
*never* feel bad about it- I feel the same way about animal abusers.

CatNipped[_2_]
July 8th 08, 02:30 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:Z%[email protected]

> "Progression of the breed"... sounds like a phrase straight out of Mein
> Kampf. The cats don't need you to further the progression of the species.
> They were doing just fine before you circle-jerking 50-cent geneticists
> started "improving" them. Your kind really "improved" the Himalayans...
> and
> the Persians... and the Siamese, didn't you? You bred genetic defects into
> those breeds that never before exisited in nature.
>
> If you really want to further the progression of the breed-- leeeaaavvveee
> them the **** alone.

I don't want to waste any more time on the moron you're replying to, but I
just had to add my two cents to this. How in *HELL* can anyone "improve"
nature's perfect predator??!

Hubris!

Hugs,

CatNipped

Janet
July 8th 08, 02:50 PM
I'm not familiar with cat breeding, and whether or not there are standards
for ethical breeders as there are in the dog world; for example, all pets
must be sold with a spay/neuter contract, genetic testing appropriate for
the breed must be done before breeding, any puppy must be returned to the
breeder for rehoming if the owner is not able to keep it at any time during
its life, and so forth.

Is there such a thing in the cat world?

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 06:41 PM
In article >,
"CatNipped" > wrote:

>
> Yes, indeed, there are so many reasons to keep breeding "pure-bred" cats
> until, like over-bred dogs, every single breed has its concommitant (usually
> painful, often deadly) defects - while perfectly healthy moggies are
> euthanized for want of a home.

To believe that mixed breed dogs and cats are without health issues is
to be wearing blinders. I've never owned a purebred cat, but my first
cat died from cardiomyopathy at barely 10. Apparently she hadn't heard
about "hybrid vigor".

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 06:43 PM
In article >,
"CatNipped" > wrote:

> Well, how wonderful
> would it be if the people who only want pure-bred status symbols

Do you really believe that "status" is the reason to get a certain pet?

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

boot
July 8th 08, 06:46 PM
Perhaps he has already done the deed when you aren't present. Perhaps
you are emitting distracting vibes with your intense and anxious
interest. Anyway, he's probably done it by now. But if this is his
first opportunity to mate at the age of three, he has missed out on
two and a half years experience, so maybe he's just not habituated to
jump on top of a female right off the bat.

On Jun 18, 11:22*pm, dontcountstars > wrote:
> I recently got a Queen to breed with my 3 year old tom cat. He is an
> exceptional little guy in great health and I have guarenteed homes for
> up to 7 kittens (just so you know im responsible!)
>
> He often calls for a mate...howls etc whatever you like to call it,
> yet now the queen is in season he is showing no interest at all. He is
> very placid and seems almost worried or frightened when she squats in
> front of him *waggling her tail and growling excitedly. She has hissed
> and smacked him in the past, could this have frightened him off?
>
> I cant understand his complete lack of interest in mating, is it just
> because he is inexperienced, or does this suggest it is a lost cause?
>
> Also is there anything at all I can do?
>
> --
> Posted at author's request, using moderatedhttp://www.PetForumz.cominterface
> Thread archive:http://www.PetForumz.com/Tom-Cat-won-breed-season-queen-ftopict72305....

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 06:46 PM
In article <Z%[email protected]>, "Phil P." >
wrote:

>
> As long as you're breeding cats while cats are dying in shelters because
> there aren't enough homes- you can bet your "irresponsible,
> morally bankrupt" ass you're doing something wrong.


Not if the OP is contributing to that shelter population with
responsible breeding practices. Sorry - I don't think there is the
slightest thing wrong with wanting a responsibly bred animal. Go after
the folks who aren't. They're the ones filling shelters.
>
> ...and every top quality home you find for your intentionally bred cats, is
> one home less for a cat languishing in a shelter where she'll be eventually
> killed.
>
A fallacy,
<snip a bunch of other extremist views>

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 06:50 PM
In article >,
Janet Boss > wrote:

>
> Not if the OP is contributing

UGH - that should have read ISN'T.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

CatNipped[_2_]
July 8th 08, 06:52 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "CatNipped" > wrote:
>
>> Well, how wonderful
>> would it be if the people who only want pure-bred status symbols
>
> Do you really believe that "status" is the reason to get a certain pet?

For people who purchase a pure-bred cat? Yes! Why else get a cat that very
probably will have severe health problems, pay a fortune for it, and allow a
healthy moggie to die in a shelter rather than adopt it instead? Cat shows
are just a chance snobs to show off those status symbols to other snobs and
then display their prizes to other snobs.

And before you claim that pure-breds have certain personality traits - I
call BS. Any personality trait found in a pure-bred cat can be found in a
moggie as well. And people who adopt a moggie from a shelter are certainly
*not* looking for just a status symbol - it's a hundred times more likely
that they're just looking for a addition to their family instead to love and
not a prize to show off.

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 06:58 PM
In article >,
"CatNipped" > wrote:

>
> For people who purchase a pure-bred cat? Yes! Why else get a cat that very
> probably will have severe health problems, pay a fortune for it, and allow a
> healthy moggie to die in a shelter rather than adopt it instead? Cat shows
> are just a chance snobs to show off those status symbols to other snobs and
> then display their prizes to other snobs.
>
> And before you claim that pure-breds have certain personality traits - I
> call BS.

Very probably? What are your statistics on likelihood of severe health
problems in purebred cats vs mixed breed cats? I've only had mixed
breed cats. They've all had health problems. 2 of them had severe
health problems. I'm pretty sure I've spent many times more on their
health than I would have paid for purebred cat.

Who said anything about cat shows? There may be many reasons to own a
purebred cat. How about allergy issues (for the human)? I know several
people who have Siberians due to allergy issues. They love being able
to have a cat and still breathe (a little issue maybe, but.....).

Lastly, where are the [actual] statistics that say that if someone
cannot purchases a purebred kitten, that they'll adopt a shelter cat
instead? That argument doesn't hold water for cats anymore than it does
for dogs.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

CatNipped[_2_]
July 8th 08, 07:01 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "CatNipped" > wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes, indeed, there are so many reasons to keep breeding "pure-bred" cats
>> until, like over-bred dogs, every single breed has its concommitant
>> (usually
>> painful, often deadly) defects - while perfectly healthy moggies are
>> euthanized for want of a home.
>
> To believe that mixed breed dogs and cats are without health issues is
> to be wearing blinders. I've never owned a purebred cat, but my first
> cat died from cardiomyopathy at barely 10. Apparently she hadn't heard
> about "hybrid vigor".
>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

*SIGH* I see you conveniently snipped my list of breed defects - that's ok,
I'll just add it back in for you...

Abyssinians? Renal amyloidosis, retinal atrophy, psychogenic alopecia,
patellarluxation.

American Shorthair? Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, polycystic kidney disease,
mucopolysaccharosidosis.

Bengal? Entropion.

Birman? Hip dysplasia, epibulbar dermoids

British Shorthair? Hemophilia

Burmese? Ocular dermoids, primary endocaridal fibroelastosis,
meningoencephalocele, keratoconjunctivitis sicca, erosion of cartilage of
third eyelid, lethal midfacial malformation.

Chartreux? Patellar luxation, hip dysplasia.

Cornish Rex? Hypothyroidism, hypotrichosis.

Devon Rex? Hypothyroidism, patellar luxation, hip dysplasia, hypotrichosis,
spasticity (prevents swallowing).

Himalayan? Cataracts, psychogenic alopecia, cutaneous asthenia, polycystic
kidneydisease.

Korat? Gangliosidosis.

Maine Coon? Pectus excavatum, patellar luxation, hip dysplasia,
hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

Manx? Spina bifida, atresia ani, rectal prolapse, corneal dystrophy.

Persian? Chediak-Higashi syndrome, congenital ankyloblepharon, entropion,
congenital epiphora, primary glaucoma, mannosidosis, seborrhea,
polycystic kidney disease, peripheral pseudocysts, patellar luxation, hip
dysplasia.

Ragdoll? Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

Scottish Fold? Severe vertebral abnormalities, prognathis, incapacitating
joint diseasewith fold to fold breeding, polycystic kidney disease.

Siamese? Feline hyperesthesia syndrome, feline endocrine alopecia,
adenocarcinomasof the small intestine, mucopolysaccharidosis,
gangliosidosis, malignant mammary tumors, numerous congenital heart defects
(PDA, aortic stenosis, AV valve malformation, pyloric stenosis, etc),
primary endocardial fibroelastosis, strabismus, nystagmus,
sphingomyelinosis, hydrocephalus, asthma, mast cell tumors,
cutaneousasthenia, esophageal hypomotility, cutaneous mastocytomas,
hypotrichosis, glaucoma, cervical neck lesions, hip dysplasia

Somali? Gingivitis.

Sphinx? Spasticity, alopecia universalis.

Tonkinese? Susceptible to upper respiratory infection, sensitivity to
vaccines.

Do moggies sometimes have health problems - DUH! Do moggies have the number
and severity of health problems as pure-breds? NO! Is there any other
reason to breed these defects into companion animals except vanity? *NO*
*NO* *NO*. Even dog breeding has more of an excuse to exist because there
*are* breeds of dogs that serve useful, practical purposes (herding dogs,
rat terriers, etc.). But pure-bred cats have one purpose and one purpose
only - an expensive possession to show off to other snobs.

Hugs,

CatNipped

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 07:06 PM
In article >,
"CatNipped" > wrote:

>
> Do moggies sometimes have health problems - DUH! Do moggies have the number
> and severity of health problems as pure-breds? NO!

Where is the data?

> Is there any other
> reason to breed these defects into companion animals except vanity? *NO*
> *NO* *NO*.

What are the odds of any given cat having those health problems?
Purebred vs mixed. Just because a health problem may be more likely in
some breeds doesn't make it a given, nor does it exclude mixed breeds.

> But pure-bred cats have one purpose and one purpose
> only - an expensive possession to show off to other snobs.

I disagree. *If* I were ever to get another cat (not planning on that
now, but my one is not quite 7, so hopefully he'll be around for many
years), it would probably be a Siberian. With my allergies, it
wouldn't be wise to continue to get mixed breed cats.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

cybercat
July 8th 08, 07:12 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "CatNipped" > wrote:
>
>>
>> Do moggies sometimes have health problems - DUH! Do moggies have the
>> number
>> and severity of health problems as pure-breds? NO!
>
> Where is the data?
>

You cannot be serious.

Do your own ****ing research.

You have to be a complete idiot not to know that reducing the gene pool
the way so many breeders have results in genetic abnormalities and
predilections to disease and deformity.

CatNipped[_2_]
July 8th 08, 07:14 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "CatNipped" > wrote:
>
>>
>> For people who purchase a pure-bred cat? Yes! Why else get a cat that
>> very
>> probably will have severe health problems, pay a fortune for it, and
>> allow a
>> healthy moggie to die in a shelter rather than adopt it instead? Cat
>> shows
>> are just a chance snobs to show off those status symbols to other snobs
>> and
>> then display their prizes to other snobs.
>>
>> And before you claim that pure-breds have certain personality traits - I
>> call BS.
>
> Very probably? What are your statistics on likelihood of severe health
> problems in purebred cats vs mixed breed cats?

Medical, Genetic, & Behavioral Aspects of Purebred Cats; Ross D.Clark, DVM,
Forum Publications, Fairway Kansas, 1992

> I've only had mixed
> breed cats. They've all had health problems. 2 of them had severe
> health problems. I'm pretty sure I've spent many times more on their
> health than I would have paid for purebred cat.

Experiential data from a limited sample is not a very scientific proof. Do
moggies sometimes have health problems? Yes. Do pure-breds have *MORE*
health problems than moggies? *YES*

>
> Who said anything about cat shows? There may be many reasons to own a
> purebred cat. How about allergy issues (for the human)? I know several
> people who have Siberians due to allergy issues. They love being able
> to have a cat and still breathe (a little issue maybe, but.....).

I don't buy it. My allergist told me I have the most severe allergies to
cats that he's ever seen. I love cats (all cats, not just somebody's idea
of a "pretty" cat), so I take allergy pills every day.

>
> Lastly, where are the [actual] statistics that say that if someone
> cannot purchases a purebred kitten, that they'll adopt a shelter cat
> instead? That argument doesn't hold water for cats anymore than it does
> for dogs.

I really *hope* they don't. Someone who wants a pure-bred cat is not, in my
opinion, fit to own the epitome of predatory perfect that is a moggie. If
they are so worried that their cat doesn't match their furniture that they
refuse to accept a moggie in their life, all moggies are better off because
of it!

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

cybercat
July 8th 08, 07:16 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote:
>
> I disagree. *If* I were ever to get another cat (not planning on that
> now, but my one is not quite 7, so hopefully he'll be around for many
> years), it would probably be a Siberian. With my allergies, it
> wouldn't be wise to continue to get mixed breed cats.
>

That's great, asswipe. Just don't think you can support breeding in a
group of people who actually love cats without being told that you are
a cat abusing, shallow, superficial bitch.

Who should never, ever get another cat.

(I am allergic to cats, but that would never move me to support
breeders. I take this brand new weird and wonderful thing called
ALLERGY MEDICINE and enjoy nartural, mixed breed cats, not
sickly freaks. You ARE a breeder, hence the argument. How many
dogs have you run into the ground making a buck?

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 07:17 PM
In article >,
"cybercat" > wrote:

>
> Do your own ****ing research.

Well, aren't you little Miss Sunshine?

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 07:20 PM
In article >,
"CatNipped" > wrote:

>
> I don't buy it. My allergist told me I have the most severe allergies to
> cats that he's ever seen. I love cats (all cats, not just somebody's idea
> of a "pretty" cat), so I take allergy pills every day.

You're a very small sample. How I wish that "allergy pills" did the
trick. I don't think you know enough about allergies and apparently you
wouldn't dream of being friendly to someone who chose a purebred cat, so
I guess any success stories with Siberians vs other cats wouldn't be
something you're ever likely to believe.

>
> >
> > Lastly, where are the [actual] statistics that say that if someone
> > cannot purchases a purebred kitten, that they'll adopt a shelter cat
> > instead? That argument doesn't hold water for cats anymore than it does
> > for dogs.
>
> I really *hope* they don't. Someone who wants a pure-bred cat is not, in my
> opinion, fit to own the epitome of predatory perfect that is a moggie.

Ah yes - I called that right in my answer, above. Wow.

> If
> they are so worried that their cat doesn't match their furniture that they
> refuse to accept a moggie in their life, all moggies are better off because
> of it!

Nothing to do with matching furniture. You are fulfilling a horrid AR
agenda here. I find that so disappointing. Real facts, real concerns
and real action are so much better than hysteria and banning.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 07:22 PM
In article >,
"cybercat" > wrote:

> Just don't think you can support breeding in a
> group of people who actually love cats without being told that you are
> a cat abusing, shallow, superficial bitch.

Nope - never abused a cat, not shallow nor superficial - I THINK instead
of fall prey to ARistas. And, I love cats.
>
> Who should never, ever get another cat.

Perhaps not. But not because I don't care about them.
>
> (I am allergic to cats, but that would never move me to support
> breeders. I take this brand new weird and wonderful thing called
> ALLERGY MEDICINE

I don't think you have a clue what I do.

>and enjoy nartural, mixed breed cats, not
> sickly freaks. You ARE a breeder, hence the argument. How many
> dogs have you run into the ground making a buck?

I don't breed dogs or cats.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

CatNipped[_2_]
July 8th 08, 07:25 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "CatNipped" > wrote:
>
>>
>> Do moggies sometimes have health problems - DUH! Do moggies have the
>> number
>> and severity of health problems as pure-breds? NO!
>
> Where is the data?

*SIGH* Medical, Genetic, & Behavioral Aspects of Purebred Cats; Ross
D.Clark, DVM, Forum Publications, Fairway Kansas, 1992 (for the third or
fourth time - quit snipping it) among many, MANY others - if you can't see
the common sense logic that inbreeding causes defects, and the more inbred a
breed, the more defects it has (which is the reason Siamese and Persians,
the "oldest" breeds of cats, have MANY more health problems than "younger"
breeds). I'm not going to entertain your obtuseness on this matter any
more, how many times to I have to type this before you will perceive the
obvious?

>
>> Is there any other
>> reason to breed these defects into companion animals except vanity? *NO*
>> *NO* *NO*.
>
> What are the odds of any given cat having those health problems?
> Purebred vs mixed. Just because a health problem may be more likely in
> some breeds doesn't make it a given, nor does it exclude mixed breeds.

"Google" is your friend, try using it!

>
>> But pure-bred cats have one purpose and one purpose
>> only - an expensive possession to show off to other snobs.
>
> I disagree. *If* I were ever to get another cat (not planning on that
> now, but my one is not quite 7, so hopefully he'll be around for many
> years), it would probably be a Siberian. With my allergies, it
> wouldn't be wise to continue to get mixed breed cats.

There's this new thing around called "allergy pills" - if you are selfish
enough to encourage, endorse and support the breeding of cats to the
detriment of cats as a whole rather than simply taking a daily dose of
antihistame, you are too selfish to own a cat.

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 07:32 PM
In article >,
"CatNipped" > wrote:

>
> There's this new thing around called "allergy pills" - if you are selfish
> enough to encourage, endorse and support the breeding of cats to the
> detriment of cats as a whole rather than simply taking a daily dose of
> antihistame, you are too selfish to own a cat.

You snip very well. I do a whole lot more than take a daily dose of
antihistamine. RESPONSIBLE breeding (which entails a whole lot of
concerns) is not to the detriment of cats as a whole. The savior
complex sure wears blinders.

BTW - before you start on shelter and rescue work - I've been doing it
for many years now.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

CatNipped[_2_]
July 8th 08, 07:33 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "CatNipped" > wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't buy it. My allergist told me I have the most severe allergies to
>> cats that he's ever seen. I love cats (all cats, not just somebody's
>> idea
>> of a "pretty" cat), so I take allergy pills every day.
>
> You're a very small sample. How I wish that "allergy pills" did the
> trick. I don't think you know enough about allergies and apparently you
> wouldn't dream of being friendly to someone who chose a purebred cat, so
> I guess any success stories with Siberians vs other cats wouldn't be
> something you're ever likely to believe.

You're talking to someone who has to have an Epi-pen on her person 24/7 -
yes, I know about allergies. Even allergy pills aren't 100% effective on
me, so I have a runny nose, eyes and sneeze a lot - so what. I wouldn't
support the breeding of cats to the detriment of cats just to keep from
sneezing. So, no, I'm not likely to believe that. If you want to breed
deformities into cats just to stop your nose from running, but a stuffed
cat!

>
>>
>> >
>> > Lastly, where are the [actual] statistics that say that if someone
>> > cannot purchases a purebred kitten, that they'll adopt a shelter cat
>> > instead? That argument doesn't hold water for cats anymore than it
>> > does
>> > for dogs.
>>
>> I really *hope* they don't. Someone who wants a pure-bred cat is not, in
>> my
>> opinion, fit to own the epitome of predatory perfect that is a moggie.
>
> Ah yes - I called that right in my answer, above. Wow.

Good for you, you got at least ONE thing right - too bad everything else
you've said is BS.

>
>> If
>> they are so worried that their cat doesn't match their furniture that
>> they
>> refuse to accept a moggie in their life, all moggies are better off
>> because
>> of it!
>
> Nothing to do with matching furniture. You are fulfilling a horrid AR
> agenda here. I find that so disappointing. Real facts, real concerns
> and real action are so much better than hysteria and banning.

LOL! "Hysteria"? No. Ailurophilia? Yes. Banning selfish people who want
pretty possessions from owning a sensate being? I can only wish!

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

CatNipped[_2_]
July 8th 08, 07:35 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "CatNipped" > wrote:
>
>>
>> There's this new thing around called "allergy pills" - if you are selfish
>> enough to encourage, endorse and support the breeding of cats to the
>> detriment of cats as a whole rather than simply taking a daily dose of
>> antihistame, you are too selfish to own a cat.
>
> You snip very well. I do a whole lot more than take a daily dose of
> antihistamine. RESPONSIBLE breeding (which entails a whole lot of
> concerns) is not to the detriment of cats as a whole. The savior
> complex sure wears blinders.

Not as big as the blinders you're wearing sweetheart - oh, yeah, that's
right, you snipped again so you can't see the evidence before your eyes.

>
> BTW - before you start on shelter and rescue work - I've been doing it
> for many years now.

Please stop! Cats don't need friends like you, baby girl.

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

CatNipped[_2_]
July 8th 08, 07:38 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article <Z%[email protected]>, "Phil P." >
> wrote:
>
>>
>> As long as you're breeding cats while cats are dying in shelters because
>> there aren't enough homes- you can bet your "irresponsible,
>> morally bankrupt" ass you're doing something wrong.
>
>
> Not if the OP is contributing to that shelter population with
> responsible breeding practices.

ROTFLMAO! Your Freudian slip is showing there, honey. Yes, the OP is very
progbably contributing to that shelter population with his breeding
practices - all breeders do which is one of the reasons millions of healthy
cats are put to death every year in the US alone.

Hugs,

CatNipped

> Sorry - I don't think there is the
> slightest thing wrong with wanting a responsibly bred animal. Go after
> the folks who aren't. They're the ones filling shelters.
>>
>> ...and every top quality home you find for your intentionally bred cats,
>> is
>> one home less for a cat languishing in a shelter where she'll be
>> eventually
>> killed.
>>
> A fallacy,
> <snip a bunch of other extremist views>
>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 07:44 PM
In article >,
"CatNipped" > wrote:

> very
> progbably contributing to that shelter population with his breeding
> practices - all breeders do which is one of the reasons millions of healthy
> cats are put to death every year in the US alone.

Really? Shelters are full of responsibly bred dogs and cats? Your
"data" seems non-existent. That's AR for ya. So sorry that it's alive
and thriving on ignorance.

To the OP - you need some closer mentors for advice. Public forums are
likely to bring some pretty harsh criticism. I have no way of knowing
how responsible a breeder you are. I support responsible breeding of
cats and dogs, and shun irresponsible breeding. I am confused by those
who actually support the irresponsible by not going after the real
problems, but bitch about purebred breeding instead.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

-mhd[_3_]
July 8th 08, 07:44 PM
Janet Boss > wrote:

>Lastly, where are the [actual] statistics that say that if someone
>cannot purchases a purebred kitten, that they'll adopt a shelter cat
>instead? That argument doesn't hold water for cats anymore than it does
>for dogs.

It's a given that once they have their breeder pet they *won't* go to a shelter and save a
life.

-mhd

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 07:52 PM
In article >,
-mhd > wrote:

>
> It's a given that once they have their breeder pet they *won't* go to a
> shelter and save a
> life.

What data is that?

First, you're assuming that someone who got a purebred cat intends to
breed it. There is not data to support that assumption.

Second, why wouldn't someone have a purebred animal and a
shelter/rescue/mixed breed animal? Why is that a "given"?

FTR - I currently have 1 cat (shelter mixed breed), 3 dogs - 1 shelter
mixed breed, 1 shelter/breed rescue poorly bred (pet shop) purebred, 1
purebred puppy (OMG - she's intact - run for the hills!). Apparently
your "given" isn't so given.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Robotech_Master
July 8th 08, 08:00 PM
On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 12:52:59 -0500, CatNipped
> wrote:

> Yes! Why else get a cat that very probably will have severe health
> problems, pay a fortune for it, and allow a healthy moggie to die
> in a shelter rather than adopt it instead? Cat shows are just a
> chance snobs to show off those status symbols to other snobs and
> then display their prizes to other snobs.

What about people who adopt purebreds *from* shelters?

I'm rescuing this handsome fellow:

http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=11130804

who was left with the center after a breeder took ill and had to try
to place her cats in good homes. He's an F3 Bengal, so I couldn't
show him even if I wanted to. And the adoption center lady doesn't
even have his papers (though I'll admit I'm hoping she'll be able to
get them). (I'm heartened that the only health problem you could come
up with for them in your list was an eyelid condition. I'll be sure
to watch out for warning signs of that.) The adoption donation is a
little higher than the shelter moggie I'm simultaneously adopting to
keep him company, but it's going to help support other rescued cats
and dogs, and nowhere near what an equivalent animal might cost from a
breeder.

I'll admit to taking a certain amount of pride in his flashy
appearance, and I'll be happy to show him off to anyone who comes
over--not because he's "a purebred Bengal" but because he's such a
gorgeous creature. However the main reason I'm getting him is that I
just plain think Bengals are neat creatures. I wouldn't have a cat
with streamlined ears or a face that looks like it ran headlong into a
wall if *you* paid *me.* (Well, unless there were extenuating
circumstances like it being in serious need of a good home, and I had
space to offer and could afford the medical bills.)

Since there's no way I could seriously consider buying a Bengal at
breeder prices, I feel really lucky to be able to get him, and I'll be
loving both him and the moggie as members of my family, keeping me
company in my lonely apartment after my previous
rescued-from-the-street moggie died after five years, thank you very
much.

--
Chris Meadows aka | WWW: http://www.terrania.us | Somebody
Robotech_Master | ICQ: 5477383 AIM: RoboMastr | help, I'm
| Skype, LJ-Gizmo: Robotech_Master | trapped in
| Yahoo: robotech_master_2000 | a sig file!

cybercat
July 8th 08, 08:02 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "cybercat" > wrote:
>
>>
>> Do your own ****ing research.
>
> Well, aren't you little Miss Sunshine?
>
I don't like breeders or people who defend breeding.
Asshole.

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 08:05 PM
In article >,
Robotech_Master > wrote:

>
> Since there's no way I could seriously consider buying a Bengal at
> breeder prices, I feel really lucky to be able to get him, and I'll be
> loving both him and the moggie as members of my family, keeping me
> company in my lonely apartment after my previous
> rescued-from-the-street moggie died after five years, thank you very
> much.

My cousin got a "second hand" Bengal and she's just a really cool cat.
I wish both your new additions the best of health and longevity!

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

cybercat
July 8th 08, 08:06 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "CatNipped" > wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't buy it. My allergist told me I have the most severe allergies to
>> cats that he's ever seen. I love cats (all cats, not just somebody's
>> idea
>> of a "pretty" cat), so I take allergy pills every day.
>
> You're a very small sample. How I wish that "allergy pills" did the
> trick. I don't think you know enough about allergies and apparently you
> wouldn't dream of being friendly to someone who chose a purebred cat, so
> I guess any success stories with Siberians vs other cats wouldn't be
> something you're ever likely to believe.
>
>>
>> >
>> > Lastly, where are the [actual] statistics that say that if someone
>> > cannot purchases a purebred kitten, that they'll adopt a shelter cat
>> > instead? That argument doesn't hold water for cats anymore than it
>> > does
>> > for dogs.
>>
>> I really *hope* they don't. Someone who wants a pure-bred cat is not, in
>> my
>> opinion, fit to own the epitome of predatory perfect that is a moggie.
>
> Ah yes - I called that right in my answer, above. Wow.
>
>> If
>> they are so worried that their cat doesn't match their furniture that
>> they
>> refuse to accept a moggie in their life, all moggies are better off
>> because
>> of it!
>
> Nothing to do with matching furniture. You are fulfilling a horrid AR
> agenda here. I find that so disappointing. Real facts, real concerns
> and real action are so much better than hysteria and banning.
>
You're so full of ****. Your allergies "cannot be controlled" with
medication simply because it suits your pro-breeding agenda.

You see animals as objects with which you imagine you may elevate your
social status. You should not even bother to try, because everyone can *see*
what you are. Pathetic.

cybercat
July 8th 08, 08:11 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "CatNipped" > wrote:
>
>> very
>> progbably contributing to that shelter population with his breeding
>> practices - all breeders do which is one of the reasons millions of
>> healthy
>> cats are put to death every year in the US alone.
>
> Really? Shelters are full of responsibly bred dogs and cats? Your
> "data" seems non-existent. That's AR for ya. So sorry that it's alive
> and thriving on ignorance.
>
> To the OP - you need some closer mentors for advice. Public forums are
> likely to bring some pretty harsh criticism. I have no way of knowing
> how responsible a breeder you are. I support responsible breeding of
> cats and dogs, and shun irresponsible breeding. I am confused by those
> who actually support the irresponsible by not going after the real
> problems, but bitch about purebred breeding instead.
>
> --
It is my understanding that there are a few folks who have problems with
the way you treat dogs, too.

cybercat
July 8th 08, 08:14 PM
"Robotech_Master" > wrote in message
g...
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 12:52:59 -0500, CatNipped
> > wrote:
>
>> Yes! Why else get a cat that very probably will have severe health
>> problems, pay a fortune for it, and allow a healthy moggie to die
>> in a shelter rather than adopt it instead? Cat shows are just a
>> chance snobs to show off those status symbols to other snobs and
>> then display their prizes to other snobs.
>
> What about people who adopt purebreds *from* shelters?
>
> I'm rescuing this handsome fellow:
>
> http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=11130804
>

He's beautiful, and I'm glad you're giving him a home. They are really a
handful,
though, and there are plenty of people who are not sure they should ever
have
been bred for domestic pets. I'm sure you've done your research. There is
ample evidence of what can happen when you take on a Bengal, in the
google archives for this group.

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 08:17 PM
In article >,
"cybercat" > wrote:

> They are really a
> handful,
> though, and there are plenty of people who are not sure they should ever
> have
> been bred for domestic pets. I'm sure you've done your research. There is
> ample evidence of what can happen when you take on a Bengal, in the
> google archives for this group.

On one hand, purebred cats are no different than mixed breed cats,
personality wise, but now all Bengals are difficult? Make up your mind!

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

CatNipped[_2_]
July 8th 08, 08:22 PM
"Robotech_Master" > wrote in message
g...
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 12:52:59 -0500, CatNipped
> > wrote:
>
>> Yes! Why else get a cat that very probably will have severe health
>> problems, pay a fortune for it, and allow a healthy moggie to die
>> in a shelter rather than adopt it instead? Cat shows are just a
>> chance snobs to show off those status symbols to other snobs and
>> then display their prizes to other snobs.
>
> What about people who adopt purebreds *from* shelters?

Obviously, that's a different story altogether. Not only are you not
supporting breeders you are saving a cat from euthansia and helping reduce
the overpopulation of the shelter so they'll have room for another waif.

>
> I'm rescuing this handsome fellow:
>
> http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=11130804

Oh wow, he's gorgeous!

Bengals are a fairly "new" breed (they're not even listed yet on the "Cat
Fanciers Association's" web page) so they have the fewest list of genetic
defects (but give breeders time and that will change - SIGH) - and the one
it is prone to, entropion, is not usually life threatening:

Entropion is an inward rolling of the eyelid edges. It is an uncommon
problem in the cat, but when it does occur it usually affects the lower
eyelids.

Unlike the dog, inherited entropion of a young animal is uncommon in the
cat. Occasionally inherited entropion of the lower lid is present in
purebred cats that have short, round faces, such as the Persian and Burmese.

Entropion in the cat is more likely to develop later in life secondary to
other changes around the eye. One of the more common causes is spasm of the
eyelid that occurs from the pain associated with corneal ulceration. In
adults cats that acquire entropion, infections and inflammation with feline
herpesvirus have been incriminated as a precipitating causes of this
problem.

Secondary entropion may also occur when the eye itself moves backwards into
the orbit (enophthalmos), or when the eye becomes shrunken following a
severe injury or infection.

>
> who was left with the center after a breeder took ill and had to try
> to place her cats in good homes. He's an F3 Bengal, so I couldn't
> show him even if I wanted to. And the adoption center lady doesn't
> even have his papers (though I'll admit I'm hoping she'll be able to
> get them). (I'm heartened that the only health problem you could come
> up with for them in your list was an eyelid condition. I'll be sure
> to watch out for warning signs of that.) The adoption donation is a
> little higher than the shelter moggie I'm simultaneously adopting to
> keep him company, but it's going to help support other rescued cats
> and dogs, and nowhere near what an equivalent animal might cost from a
> breeder.

Always a good thing - bless you! There are so many breeders who routinely
euthanize kittens with "undesirable" characteristics. Breed rescues tries
to save kittens from that fate.

>
> I'll admit to taking a certain amount of pride in his flashy
> appearance, and I'll be happy to show him off to anyone who comes
> over--not because he's "a purebred Bengal" but because he's such a
> gorgeous creature. However the main reason I'm getting him is that I
> just plain think Bengals are neat creatures. I wouldn't have a cat
> with streamlined ears or a face that looks like it ran headlong into a
> wall if *you* paid *me.* (Well, unless there were extenuating
> circumstances like it being in serious need of a good home, and I had
> space to offer and could afford the medical bills.)

I'm glad you're getting a companion for him (just make sure they're
introduced slowly - Bengals tend to be "bullies").

Bengals are *really* feisty, very intelligent, and more than willing to get
into all kinds of trouble*. Many, many Bengals are turned in to shelters
because of behavior problems (add that to the fact that, while they like to
interact with people, they're not a "lap cat" and that can be hard to
tolerate for a "casual" cat owner). They need lots of attention and lots
and lots of exercise. You also have to make sure your home is "bengal
proofed" - they've been known to learn how to open doors, cabinets,
refrigerators, and other seemingly "cat proofed" places - they turn lights
off and on, turn water taps on (they love water - they've been known to join
their owners in the shower), and a myriad of other mischevious behaviors.

* Caveat... cats' personalities are formed by many factors, including their
genetic heritage, their socialisation and living conditions when growing up,
and good old random individuality! As a result there is always much more
variation between individual cats than there is commonality within a given
breed.

>
> Since there's no way I could seriously consider buying a Bengal at
> breeder prices, I feel really lucky to be able to get him, and I'll be
> loving both him and the moggie as members of my family, keeping me
> company in my lonely apartment after my previous
> rescued-from-the-street moggie died after five years, thank you very
> much.

Good luck to all of you! Please keep us posted on your adventures with your
new family! ;>

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> Chris Meadows aka | WWW: http://www.terrania.us | Somebody
> Robotech_Master | ICQ: 5477383 AIM: RoboMastr | help, I'm
> | Skype, LJ-Gizmo: Robotech_Master | trapped in
> | Yahoo: robotech_master_2000 | a sig file!

CatNipped[_2_]
July 8th 08, 08:35 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "CatNipped" > wrote:
>
>> very
>> progbably contributing to that shelter population with his breeding
>> practices - all breeders do which is one of the reasons millions of
>> healthy
>> cats are put to death every year in the US alone.
>
> Really? Shelters are full of responsibly bred dogs and cats? Your
> "data" seems non-existent. That's AR for ya. So sorry that it's alive
> and thriving on ignorance.

Creative snipping always gets you the text you need in order to respond in
your own defense, doesn't it? Well, go ahead - why don't you just type
something and make believe I said it, it's obvious truth and logic are
concepts you're not familiar with, sweetie!

>
> To the OP - you need some closer mentors for advice. Public forums are
> likely to bring some pretty harsh criticism.

Especially public forums dedicated to the health and welfare of cats - my,
my, imagine that!

> I have no way of knowing
> how responsible a breeder you are. I support responsible breeding of
> cats and dogs, and shun irresponsible breeding.

Of course you do, what a surprise! I was wondering what that stench was I
was smelling - darling, you need to go take a bath in some common sense and
compassion, you reek of self-righteousness, irresponsibility, selfishness
and plain old bull**** (now see there, you've gone and reduced me to foul
language - that's it, I'm done).

> I am confused by those
> who actually support the irresponsible by not going after the real
> problems, but bitch about purebred breeding instead.

And there really is no need to bitch about breeding painful and probably
fatal diseases, structural deformities, defects, and neurotic tendencies in
the animals we love, is there? It's all good as long as snobs like you can
show off your pretty (to others, grotesque to me) possessions. After all,
they're just animals without souls, without feelings, without worth other
than what we pay for them, right?

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 08:45 PM
In article >,
"CatNipped" > wrote:

> It's all good as long as snobs like you can
> show off your pretty (to others, grotesque to me) possessions. After all,
> they're just animals without souls, without feelings, without worth other
> than what we pay for them, right?

All of my animals are beautiful. From free to not free. How horrid of
you to decide that a carefully chosen animal is grotesque.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

shelly
July 8th 08, 08:46 PM
"cybercat" > wrote in
:

> You're so full of ****. Your allergies "cannot be controlled" with
mere hecatombs to our alien overlords. An aluminum toque repells
> medication simply because it suits your pro-breeding agenda.
>
> You see animals as objects with which you imagine you may elevate
conjugate dessert plate pieces of eight. An apparatus for your
> your social status. You should not even bother to try, because
resistance is futile. But hey nonny nonny I see that you see that
> everyone can *see* what you are. Pathetic.
I am. It's true and that's not a lie.

IFYPFY. HTH BBQ and God bless!

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

cybercat
July 8th 08, 08:50 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "CatNipped" > wrote:
>
>> It's all good as long as snobs like you can
>> show off your pretty (to others, grotesque to me) possessions. After
>> all,
>> they're just animals without souls, without feelings, without worth other
>> than what we pay for them, right?
>
> All of my animals are beautiful. From free to not free. How horrid of
> you to decide that a carefully chosen animal is grotesque.
>

The point is, so many are dying and suffering for want of a good home.
Anyone who advocates creating *more* is seriously wrongheaded and just a
rotten piece of **** who is numb to the suffering of these creatures.

Pardon my scientific terminology.

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 08:55 PM
In article >,
"cybercat" > wrote:

>
> Pardon my scientific terminology.

and AR agenda. No - I won't.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

CatNipped[_2_]
July 8th 08, 09:06 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "CatNipped" > wrote:
>
>> It's all good as long as snobs like you can
>> show off your pretty (to others, grotesque to me) possessions. After
>> all,
>> they're just animals without souls, without feelings, without worth other
>> than what we pay for them, right?
>
> All of my animals are beautiful. From free to not free. How horrid of
> you to decide that a carefully chosen animal is grotesque.

A caricature of what was once the perfect predator, but now sports a
smushed-in face that causes disgusting discharge to form in the eyes and
causes infections and breathing difficulties, has a deformed skeleton and
musculature, is disease-ridden in body and mind, is indeed grotesque - as in
the grotesquely warped, ethically lacking, money grubbing excuse for a human
being that deliberately caused those deformities for the sake of the
almighty dollar. Again, cats started out perfect, it's only the hubris of
people like you who think they can improve on nature and God's creation.

Go ahead, keep snipping to make your point, tell yourself you are a human
being and not pond scum... whatever lets you sleep at night and look at
yourself in the mirror in the morning, darlin'!

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Matthew[_3_]
July 8th 08, 09:06 PM
"cybercat" >



Cyber kill file is your friend why are you wasting your time

CatNipped[_2_]
July 8th 08, 09:13 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "cybercat" > wrote:
>
>>
>> Pardon my scientific terminology.
>
> and AR agenda. No - I won't.

Of course not when your own agenda entails the suffering of animals for the
sake of your pocketbook! I never for a minute thought you would. It's
interesting, in a gross sort of way, what crawls out from under rocks these
days. If you don't have the ethical or moral standards of a hyena,
sweetums, you could at least keep your mouth shut and pretend you do! Now
do I have to start treating you like the puppy who pooped on the floor in
front of company (people are starting to turn their noses up at the stench)?
Are you that stupid that you would come into *this* particular forum with
your breeder "agenda"? Tsk, tsk. The depths that some so-called humans can
plumb never ceases to amaze me. Unfortunately, the stupidity of some has
become all too predictable. How sad.

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Robotech_Master
July 8th 08, 09:16 PM
On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 14:22:19 -0500, CatNipped
> wrote:

> They need lots of attention and lots and lots of exercise.

I look at this as a bonus. Getting a harness and lead and walking my
cat will be a good way to force *me* to get sufficient exercise
myself. :) And I'll be giving him lots of attention every moment I'm
at home. (This is also in part why I'm adopting a friendly, sociable
moggie along with him, to be around when I can't be--though the larger
part being that she's such a sweetie I can't leave her alone. I may
go down to the vet clinic where I'm adopting her after work today just
to spend a little time with her, even though it'll be Friday before my
apartment is ready to welcome her in.)

And I'm really looking forward to his feistiness. (Though the shelter
operator assures me that he's a really sweet-natured and friendly
beast.) It'll be fun having a cat who will interact with me rather
than just "tolerate" me.

--
Chris Meadows aka | WWW: http://www.terrania.us | Somebody
Robotech_Master | ICQ: 5477383 AIM: RoboMastr | help, I'm
| Skype, LJ-Gizmo: Robotech_Master | trapped in
| Yahoo: robotech_master_2000 | a sig file!

CatNipped[_2_]
July 8th 08, 09:25 PM
"Robotech_Master" > wrote in message
g...
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 14:22:19 -0500, CatNipped
> > wrote:
>
>> They need lots of attention and lots and lots of exercise.
>
> I look at this as a bonus. Getting a harness and lead and walking my
> cat will be a good way to force *me* to get sufficient exercise
> myself. :)

Good idea! It's said that Bengals are more "dog-like" than most cats. I'm
sure he'll benefit from the variety of sights, sounds, and smells that
walking will provide him, just like dogs do. Even though he may get enough
exercise at home, he'll still appreciate the mental stimulation walking will
provide.

> And I'll be giving him lots of attention every moment I'm
> at home. (This is also in part why I'm adopting a friendly, sociable
> moggie along with him, to be around when I can't be--though the larger
> part being that she's such a sweetie I can't leave her alone. I may
> go down to the vet clinic where I'm adopting her after work today just
> to spend a little time with her, even though it'll be Friday before my
> apartment is ready to welcome her in.)
>
> And I'm really looking forward to his feistiness. (Though the shelter
> operator assures me that he's a really sweet-natured and friendly
> beast.) It'll be fun having a cat who will interact with me rather
> than just "tolerate" me.

Again, good luck with your new family. And, oh, by the way, PLEASE POST
LOTS OF PICTURES!!!! ;>

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> Chris Meadows aka | WWW: http://www.terrania.us | Somebody
> Robotech_Master | ICQ: 5477383 AIM: RoboMastr | help, I'm
> | Skype, LJ-Gizmo: Robotech_Master | trapped in
> | Yahoo: robotech_master_2000 | a sig file!

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 09:28 PM
In article >,
"CatNipped" > wrote:

>
> Of course not when your own agenda entails the suffering of animals for the
> sake of your pocketbook!

Exactly how do you think I'm enhancing my pocketbook or adding the the
suffering of animals. That's pure AR crap.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 09:30 PM
In article >,
Robotech_Master > wrote:

> It'll be fun having a cat who will interact with me rather
> than just "tolerate" me.

I've always had very interactive cats. I've always figured that maybe
they follow what the dogs do! They both sound lovely. I hope they
enjoy each others' company.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

CatNipped[_2_]
July 8th 08, 09:33 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "CatNipped" > wrote:
>
>>
>> Of course not when your own agenda entails the suffering of animals for
>> the
>> sake of your pocketbook!
>
> Exactly how do you think I'm enhancing my pocketbook or adding the the
> suffering of animals. That's pure AR crap.

Nobody takes up the flag of breeder and runs with it like you've done here
unless they are or were a breeder themselves. If you're not or have never
been a breeder nor have ever purchased a pure-bred cat (thus financing their
depravity), but you are *still* defending their lack of humanity and
compassion, then you are far, far more stupid than even I had estimated.
Poor dear, for your own sake, take my advice and quit showing off your
ignorance - it doesn't become you, darlin'!

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

cybercat
July 8th 08, 09:38 PM
"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> "Janet Boss" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >,
>> "CatNipped" > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Of course not when your own agenda entails the suffering of animals for
>>> the
>>> sake of your pocketbook!
>>
>> Exactly how do you think I'm enhancing my pocketbook or adding the the
>> suffering of animals. That's pure AR crap.
>
> Nobody takes up the flag of breeder and runs with it like you've done here
> unless they are or were a breeder themselves. If you're not or have never
> been a breeder nor have ever purchased a pure-bred cat (thus financing
> their depravity), but you are *still* defending their lack of humanity and
> compassion, then you are far, far more stupid than even I had estimated.
> Poor dear, for your own sake, take my advice and quit showing off your
> ignorance - it doesn't become you, darlin'!
>
> Hugs,
>

I love the designation "you AR people," don't you? Like there's something
ridiculous and sneerworthy about treating animals like feeling creatures and
not possessions to wear on your arm like a rolex.

I've said all I want to say to this stupid bitch. Life is too short to spend
too much time on idiots.

cybercat
July 8th 08, 09:39 PM
"Robotech_Master" > wrote in message
g...
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 14:22:19 -0500, CatNipped
> > wrote:
>
>> They need lots of attention and lots and lots of exercise.
>
> I look at this as a bonus. Getting a harness and lead and walking my
> cat will be a good way to force *me* to get sufficient exercise
> myself. :) And I'll be giving him lots of attention every moment I'm
> at home. (This is also in part why I'm adopting a friendly, sociable
> moggie along with him, to be around when I can't be--though the larger
> part being that she's such a sweetie I can't leave her alone. I may
> go down to the vet clinic where I'm adopting her after work today just
> to spend a little time with her, even though it'll be Friday before my
> apartment is ready to welcome her in.)
>
> And I'm really looking forward to his feistiness. (Though the shelter
> operator assures me that he's a really sweet-natured and friendly
> beast.) It'll be fun having a cat who will interact with me rather
> than just "tolerate" me.
>
You sound like a great match for this boy. :) Bless you. And if you
put up a photo page, please post the links.

cybercat
July 8th 08, 09:41 PM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
g.com...
>
> "cybercat" >
>
>
>
> Cyber kill file is your friend why are you wasting your time

Well, you must admit, there is a therapeutic value in taking potshots at
obvious idiots. It beat the hell out of taking things out on the ones we
love, right?

ReMIND you of anyone, as Craig Ferguson says ... MU hahaha!

CatNipped[_2_]
July 8th 08, 09:42 PM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Janet Boss" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> In article >,
>>> "CatNipped" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Of course not when your own agenda entails the suffering of animals for
>>>> the
>>>> sake of your pocketbook!
>>>
>>> Exactly how do you think I'm enhancing my pocketbook or adding the the
>>> suffering of animals. That's pure AR crap.
>>
>> Nobody takes up the flag of breeder and runs with it like you've done
>> here unless they are or were a breeder themselves. If you're not or have
>> never been a breeder nor have ever purchased a pure-bred cat (thus
>> financing their depravity), but you are *still* defending their lack of
>> humanity and compassion, then you are far, far more stupid than even I
>> had estimated. Poor dear, for your own sake, take my advice and quit
>> showing off your ignorance - it doesn't become you, darlin'!
>>
>> Hugs,
>>
>
> I love the designation "you AR people," don't you? Like there's something
> ridiculous and sneerworthy about treating animals like feeling creatures
> and not possessions to wear on your arm like a rolex.

Yeah, really!

>
> I've said all I want to say to this stupid bitch. Life is too short to
> spend too much time on idiots.

Hmm, just did a quick google on this one. For a troll, she certainly does
leave herself wide open, doesn't she? Man, she's not going to last long in
this group, will she?!! If she has even a lick of common sense she'll start
running for the hills before the big guns arrive (not that you aren't a big
gun my friend ;>)!

Hugs,

CatNipped

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 09:45 PM
In article >,
"CatNipped" > wrote:

>
> Nobody takes up the flag of breeder and runs with it like you've done here
> unless they are or were a breeder themselves. If you're not or have never
> been a breeder nor have ever purchased a pure-bred cat (thus financing their
> depravity), but you are *still* defending their lack of humanity and
> compassion, then you are far, far more stupid than even I had estimated.
> Poor dear, for your own sake, take my advice and quit showing off your
> ignorance - it doesn't become you, darlin'!


I'm definitely not your darlin', nor am I stupid. I think for myself
rather than follow hysterical AR agendas. I have never been a breeder,
nor will be and never have owned or purchased a purebred cat. My cats
have come from: offspring of a stray taken in by neighbor, stray,
offspring of a stray taken in by vet's office, and [older] shelter
kitten. No ignorance. I like little things like facts.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

CatNipped[_2_]
July 8th 08, 09:53 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "CatNipped" > wrote:
>
>>
>> Nobody takes up the flag of breeder and runs with it like you've done
>> here
>> unless they are or were a breeder themselves. If you're not or have
>> never
>> been a breeder nor have ever purchased a pure-bred cat (thus financing
>> their
>> depravity), but you are *still* defending their lack of humanity and
>> compassion, then you are far, far more stupid than even I had estimated.
>> Poor dear, for your own sake, take my advice and quit showing off your
>> ignorance - it doesn't become you, darlin'!
>
>
> I'm definitely not your darlin', nor am I stupid. I think for myself

Yes, sweetie, we've seen evidence of that here. That's not working so well
for you, is it, honey?

> rather than follow hysterical AR agendas. I have never been a breeder,
> nor will be and never have owned or purchased a purebred cat. My cats

Oh my, methinks she protests too much. Tell me then, sugar, what stake do
you have in so frenetically defending the scum of the earth? Are you just a
masochist? If you're trying to troll the group I have to say darlin',
you're not doing too well with that.

> have come from: offspring of a stray taken in by neighbor, stray,
> offspring of a stray taken in by vet's office, and [older] shelter
> kitten. No ignorance. I like little things like facts.

Facts like you keep snipping here, sweetie? Yes, we can see that for
ourselves! Didn't your mama ever teach you that actions speak louder than
words? Poor baby!

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

CatNipped[_2_]
July 8th 08, 10:37 PM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matthew" > wrote in message
> g.com...
>>
>> "cybercat" >
>>
>>
>>
>> Cyber kill file is your friend why are you wasting your time
>
> Well, you must admit, there is a therapeutic value in taking potshots at
> obvious idiots. It beat the hell out of taking things out on the ones we
> love, right?
>
> ReMIND you of anyone, as Craig Ferguson says ... MU hahaha!

Day-um! Seems she slipped away back into RPDB to whine to her widdle fwends
that we wus bein' all mean to her! Just when I was getting into the mood to
play, too! ;>

Hugs,

CatNipped

cybercat
July 8th 08, 11:28 PM
"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>> g.com...
>>>
>>> "cybercat" >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cyber kill file is your friend why are you wasting your time
>>
>> Well, you must admit, there is a therapeutic value in taking potshots at
>> obvious idiots. It beat the hell out of taking things out on the ones we
>> love, right?
>>
>> ReMIND you of anyone, as Craig Ferguson says ... MU hahaha!
>
> Day-um! Seems she slipped away back into RPDB to whine to her widdle
> fwends that we wus bein' all mean to her! Just when I was getting into
> the mood to play, too! ;>
>

She's been coming around here for years on and off, and I wondered when she
would air her asshole views on animals as objects to display/status symbols.

Janet Boss
July 8th 08, 11:30 PM
In article >,
"cybercat" > wrote:

>
> She's been coming around here for years on and off, and I wondered when she
> would air her asshole views on animals as objects to display/status symbols.

Where are my animals display/status symbols? Where do I indicate that
anyone else's are? You're all so caught up in your rhetoric that you
can't see straight, and fabricate all sorts of things. A strange
approach. I hope lurkers reading this stuff understand that your
extremism is just that.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

-mhd[_3_]
July 9th 08, 03:10 AM
Janet Boss > wrote:

>In article >,
> -mhd > wrote:
>
>>
>> It's a given that once they have their breeder pet they *won't* go to a
>> shelter and save a
>> life.
>
>What data is that?
>
>First, you're assuming that someone who got a purebred cat intends to
>breed it. There is not data to support that assumption.

No I'm not assuming anything. Read that as *from* a breeder not *for* breeding.
>
>Second, why wouldn't someone have a purebred animal and a
>shelter/rescue/mixed breed animal? Why is that a "given"?

Yeah right, what was I thinking.

>FTR - I currently have 1 cat (shelter mixed breed), 3 dogs - 1 shelter
>mixed breed, 1 shelter/breed rescue poorly bred (pet shop) purebred, 1
>purebred puppy (OMG - she's intact - run for the hills!). Apparently
>your "given" isn't so given.

And your ridiculous sized sample is typical?

Too bad you weren't better bred, you'd have more brains and don't claim that you do -
where is the data for that?

-mhd

Rocky[_2_]
July 9th 08, 03:33 AM
"cybercat" > said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> You're so full of ****.

Cool, yet another cross-posting asshat with an agenda.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Gandalf
July 9th 08, 04:28 AM
On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 05:34:49 GMT, "Phil P." > wrote:

>
>"dontcountstars" > wrote in message
>news:[email protected] com...
>> Thankyou for your misjudged replies,
>
>I'd say my replies were right on target. You welcome.
>
>
>> however I'm doing nothing wrong.
>
>
>As long as you're breeding cats while cats are dying in shelters because
>there aren't enough homes- you can bet your "irresponsible,
>morally bankrupt" ass you're doing something wrong.
>
>
><snip- not interested your opinion of your cats' credentials>
>
>I am only interested
>> in finding top quality homes for any kittens I breed,
>
>...and every top quality home you find for your intentionally bred cats, is
>one home less for a cat languishing in a shelter where she'll be eventually
>killed.
>
>
>
>and making sure
>> I do my part to only breed from the best possible cats,
>
>
>If you want to do your part for the feline species- don't breed any more
>cats.
>
>so as to
>> further the progression of the breed.
>
>
>"Progression of the breed"... sounds like a phrase straight out of Mein
>Kampf. The cats don't need you to further the progression of the species.
>They were doing just fine before you circle-jerking 50-cent geneticists
>started "improving" them. Your kind really "improved" the Himalayans... and
>the Persians... and the Siamese, didn't you? You bred genetic defects into
>those breeds that never before exisited in nature.
>
>If you really want to further the progression of the breed-- leeeaaavvveee
>them the **** alone.
>
>
>>
>> Just so you know, I also am well aware of the problem with
>> overpopulation,
>
>
>You are? And you *still* want to breed more cats??? Whar are you, a moron or
>just a "irresponsible, morally bankrupt person"?
>
>
>
>
> I do a lot of volutary work at the local animal
>> sanctuary
>
>...between breeding more cats? What do you there? Try to make room for the
>cats whose homes were displaced by your kittens?
>
>
> >(I'm a qualified veterinary nurse)
>
>
>Credentials don't guarantee credibility- one can exist without the other.
>You're a shining example! You're a "qualified veterinary nurse" and you have
>to come to a newsgroup to ask a stupid question? How did you get your
>credentials? From a matchbook cover?
>
>
> Do you do anything to
>> help, other than harrass people online?
>
>Yeah, I do- but I'm not doing it right now because I'm harrassing you for
>contributing to the cat overpopulation problem.
>
>>
>> Pedigree breedings are not to blame for overpopulation and abandoned
>> animals,
>
>Naaa, you just contribute to the overpopulation problem. You're just like a
>fool who pours gas on a fire and doesn't take responsibility for the damage
>because he didn't start the fire.
>
>
>
>and without the continuation of the many hundreds of year old
>> pedigree lines, these breeds would completely die out and become
>> extinct, which would be a terrible loss for mankind.
>
>
>Half of those breeds didn't exist in nature to begin with, - and the other
>half have genetic defects from circle-jerking, 50-cent geneticists like you
>trying to "improve" the breeds.
>
>
>
>>
>> So really, I resent your assumption that I am an irresponsible,
>> morally bankrupt person,
>
>
>I'm glad to hear it! After reading your reply, I see my assumption was
>correct!
>
>
>and feel that perhaps you should not jump to
>> conclusions next time,
>
>Why not? My conclusions were correct.
>
>
>and also work on a better way to get your
>> message across,
>
>
>I *have* a better way. But if you don't like this way, you damn sure
>wouldn't like my "better way"..
>
>
>other than being inappropriately rude when someone
>> asks an innocent question.
>
>Its impossible to be "inappropriately rude" to a breeder- I could never be
>rude enough to a breeder-- and I'm really good at being rude!
>
>The only good thing about breeders is no matter what I say or do to them- I
>*never* feel bad about it- I feel the same way about animal abusers.
>


Yay Phil! You are my kind of guy!

I used to volunteer for a small, no kill shelter in my city.

I had to give it up for health reasons, but I have never forgotten the
experience.

There are SO MANY cats that need homes. Kittens are relatively easy to
find homes for, but the shelter I worked at 'specialized' in 'stray'
cats only.

So we mostly had adult cats looking for homes. And some of them weren't
young, or pretty, either.

I couldn't have said it as well as you already have: breeding cats is
just WRONG, for ALL of the reasons you have stated so very, very well.

Gandalf <---Long time lurker. Full time cat lover. Firmly believes that
rescues make the best pets. BTW: My two RB moggies lived to 16 and 18
years, with almost no health problems. My 'current' cat came from a
shelter. I'm her third (and last) human, too.

No Name
July 9th 08, 04:42 AM
Shelly > wrote:
>"cybercat" > wrote in
>
>> You're so full of ****. Your allergies "cannot be controlled" with
>mere hecatombs to our alien overlords. An aluminum toque repells
>> medication simply because it suits your pro-breeding agenda.
>>
>> You see animals as objects with which you imagine you may elevate
>conjugate dessert plate pieces of eight. An apparatus for your
>> your social status. You should not even bother to try, because
>resistance is futile. But hey nonny nonny I see that you see that
>> everyone can *see* what you are. Pathetic.
>I am. It's true and that's not a lie.

A tween! A tween! Oh, I've been in tween withdrawal for so long.

And such a worthy subject too. Good job!

Dianne

shelly
July 9th 08, 12:11 PM
(null) wrote:

> A tween! A tween! Oh, I've been in tween withdrawal for so long.
>
> And such a worthy subject too. Good job!

Thank you kindly, ma'am! It seems like the most fitting response to
wackaloon bozocity is more wackaloon bozocity, no?

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

Janet Boss
July 9th 08, 12:23 PM
In article >,
Shelly > wrote:

>
> Thank you kindly, ma'am! It seems like the most fitting response to
> wackaloon bozocity is more wackaloon bozocity, no?

It was most excellent and appropriate!

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

diddy[_2_]
July 9th 08, 01:58 PM
Shelly > spoke these words of wisdom in
6:

> "cybercat" > wrote in
> :
>
>> You're so full of ****. Your allergies "cannot be controlled" with
> mere hecatombs to our alien overlords. An aluminum toque repells
>> medication simply because it suits your pro-breeding agenda.
>>
>> You see animals as objects with which you imagine you may elevate
> conjugate dessert plate pieces of eight. An apparatus for your
>> your social status. You should not even bother to try, because
> resistance is futile. But hey nonny nonny I see that you see that
>> everyone can *see* what you are. Pathetic.
> I am. It's true and that's not a lie.
>
> IFYPFY. HTH BBQ and God bless!
>

Very nice

Phil P.
July 9th 08, 04:00 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article <Z%[email protected]>, "Phil P." >
> wrote:
>
> >
> > As long as you're breeding cats while cats are dying in shelters because
> > there aren't enough homes- you can bet your "irresponsible,
> > morally bankrupt" ass you're doing something wrong.
>
>
> Not if the OP is contributing to that shelter population with
> responsible breeding practices.


"Responsible breeding"... is an oxymoron. The words just don't go
together.Kinda like "Best Friends" and "choking/shocking".


> Sorry - I don't think there is the
> slightest thing wrong with wanting a responsibly bred animal.


Of course you don't. Most of your inept customers have pedigreed animals,
don't they?

You also don't think there is the slightest thing wrong with choking and
shocking dogs and declawing cats. Animal ethics and animal welfare issues
just aren't your strong suits.



Go after
> the folks who aren't. They're the ones filling shelters.

All breeders are contributing to filling shelters- some directly- some
indirectly.


> > ...and every top quality home you find for your intentionally bred cats,
is
> > one home less for a cat languishing in a shelter where she'll be
eventually
> > killed.
> >
> A fallacy,


As if you had a clue!



"Don't breed or buy while shelter pets die"

Janet Boss
July 10th 08, 01:46 AM
In article >,
Cheryl > wrote:

>
> This honestly is the real deal. So many just don't understand it.
> just won't understand it.

Maybe because it's based on poor data and rhetoric? Responsible
breeders are neither filling the shelters nor costing shelter animals a
home. When will the zealots get THAT?

I've been doing shelter and rescue work since 1992 and have owned more
shelter/rescue/second hand pets than purebred purchased pets, so please
- I am very far from "understanding". I actually think and understand
instead of following AR propaganda.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet Boss
July 10th 08, 02:24 AM
In article >,
Cheryl > wrote:

>
> i wasn't even replying to you, but you snipped what I wrote about
> the 'real deal'.
>

Snipping is appropriate in most forums, can't figure out why it isn't
here. Following a thread isn't that hard.
>
> >>>>>Repost<<<<<
>
> > "Don't breed or buy while shelter pets die"
>
> This honestly is the real deal. So many just don't understand it.
> just won't understand it.
>
> >>>>>end Repost<<<<<
>
> It isn't rhetoric and it isn't a fairy tale. If there weren't
> breeders pushing defective animals, the ones already here needing a
> home would have one. Why is that so hard to understand?

The problem I have with your spiel is that you are claiming that all
breeders are producing ("pushing") defective animals. You have no
understanding of responsible breeding, or refuse to. Where are all of
the animals in need of homes coming from? Not responsible breeders, by
definition. Keep cleaning up the mess made by irresponsible
"breeders" and it's a vicious cycle of supporting THEM.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Phil P.
July 10th 08, 02:41 AM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Cheryl > wrote:
>
> >
> > This honestly is the real deal. So many just don't understand it.
> > just won't understand it.
>
> Maybe because it's based on poor data and rhetoric?


Naa, I'd say its true. Its obvious that you're trying to defend breeders
because most of your inept customers have pedigreed dogs.


Responsible
> breeders

...is a contradiction in terms. A "responsible breeder" wouldn't breed more
animals while millions of cats and dogs are killed every year because there
aren't enough homes.


are neither filling the shelters nor costing shelter animals a
> home.


They most certainly are contributing to the overpopulation problem. They're
breeding more cats and dogs while millions of cats and dogs are killed every
year because there aren't enough homes, aren't they? If breeding was banned
or at least regulated, more home would be available to shelter animals. Its
really a simple concept- even for you to understand.



>When will the zealots get THAT?


Probably when the morally bankrupt breeders understand there are too many
animals already-- we don't need any more.



>
> I've been doing shelter and rescue work since 1992


Sure you have... What did you do, adopt a few pedigreed dogs and sell them
to your customers?


and have owned more
> shelter/rescue/second hand pets than purebred purchased pets, so please
> - I am very far from "understanding".


Wow! That's a really large sample size that can certainly be extrapolatated
to the rest of the country....




> I actually think and understand

Yeah, you think and understand... you're just not very good at it: Here's
your thinking and understanding: 2 many animals + more animals = breed more
animals.

Janet Boss
July 10th 08, 03:11 AM
In article <%Mddk.323$Z11[email protected]>, "Phil P." >
wrote:

>
>
> Naa, I'd say its true. Its obvious that you're trying to defend breeders
> because most of your inept customers have pedigreed dogs.
>

My clients are a very mixed bag. Most of them are very dedicated to
doing everything possible for their dogs, regardless of heritage.
>
> Responsible
> > breeders
>
> ..is a contradiction in terms. A "responsible breeder" wouldn't breed more
> animals while millions of cats and dogs are killed every year because there
> aren't enough homes.

BZZZZT - apples and oranges. It's a true AR argument, but it doesn't
hold water.

> They most certainly are contributing to the overpopulation problem. They're
> breeding more cats and dogs while millions of cats and dogs are killed every
> year because there aren't enough homes, aren't they?

Wrong again! There aren't enough responsible homes for the millions of
irresponsibly bred and placed animals. By the very nature of the
definition, responsible breeders are not placing in irresponsible homes
nor are their animals winding up in shelters. Your argument that those
homes would/should adopt a shelter animal instead is without legs.

> If breeding was banned
> or at least regulated, more home would be available to shelter animals. Its
> really a simple concept- even for you to understand.

Incorrect! Any puppy is not necessarily the puppy someone wants.
Poorly bred and socialized animals are not what many are looking for.
Again, why should responsible owners have to clean up the mess made by
BYBs who never end?
>
> > I've been doing shelter and rescue work since 1992
>
>
> Sure you have... What did you do, adopt a few pedigreed dogs and sell them
> to your customers?

You're assinine.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

cshenk
July 10th 08, 03:59 AM
"Cheryl" wrote
Janet Boss wrote in

>> Snipping is appropriate in most forums, can't figure out why it
>> isn't here. Following a thread isn't that hard.

The problem is when the software used doesnt add the right markers so you
cant tell later easily who said what. Snipping *is* good or it gets too
unwieldy.

> Because the snipping is removing relavent parts of the
> conversation. I believe in snipping, but not when it refers to
> what I'm replying to.

This would be Charyl right?

>>> It isn't rhetoric and it isn't a fairy tale. If there weren't
>>> breeders pushing defective animals, the ones already here
>>> needing a home would have one. Why is that so hard to
>>> understand?

I cant tell who said this, doesnt matter. Fanatics think that way.
Fanatics like this had me leave the dog echo. If you said you had a puppy
everyone went 'sweet'. If you said your dog was having puppies, you were
attacked immediately. If you mentioned a responsible breeder, fanatics
attacked in droves.

I do NOT want to see this newsgroup devolve to the low level mentality of
that other one.

> are intact. Breeders add to it by breeding so-called pure breds
> that displace homes that could be one for the shelter animals.
> Responsible breeders are only a small portion of the
> overpopulation. Are you arguing responsible breeding or just
> breeding? What are you so mad about with this thread?

Some get upset at ANY mention of allowing a pet to breed. Me, I have rescue
pets all around and only 1 (long ago, I'm older, old age took him away) came
from a breeder yet was also a 'rescue' pet in a way. 'Failure to thrive'
Himalayan from a reputable breeder and 'free to a good home if fixed on
time'. Came with medical records and an estimate he'd not live to see 5
years of age and never should be bred.
(Roscoe lived to be 13, was never more than 6.5 lbs, but was healthy right
up til the last day when he silently passed on in his sleep).

>> responsible breeders, by definition. Keep cleaning up the
>> mess made by irresponsible "breeders" and it's a vicious cycle
>> of supporting THEM.

There is nothing wrong with proper breeding of a pedigree to keep it around.
While I *choose* to have rescue pets, I do not denigrate those who desire to
have a relatively pure-bred (home level, not show level often) pet.

> And how do regular people really know the difference?

They seldom do. This sets the fanatics off.

Phil P.
July 10th 08, 04:18 AM
"cshenk" > wrote in message
...
> >>> It isn't rhetoric and it isn't a fairy tale. If there weren't
> >>> breeders pushing defective animals, the ones already here
> >>> needing a home would have one. Why is that so hard to
> >>> understand?
>
> I cant tell who said this, doesnt matter. Fanatics think that way.

Yeah- I'm a fanatic- I'm fanatical about preventing as many deaths as I can.


You need to take your head out of your ass and take a walk through a kill
shelter on kill day- then see if you still think there's nothing wrong with
breeding more animals.

Phil P.
July 10th 08, 04:23 AM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article <%[email protected]>, "Phil P." >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Naa, I'd say its true. Its obvious that you're trying to defend breeders
> > because most of your inept customers have pedigreed dogs.
> >
>
> My clients are a very mixed bag. Most of them are very dedicated to
> doing everything possible for their dogs, regardless of heritage.


Yeah, like taking your class on shocking and chocking their dogs.... They're
a mixed bag, alright---


> >
> > Responsible
> > > breeders
> >
> > ..is a contradiction in terms. A "responsible breeder" wouldn't breed
more
> > animals while millions of cats and dogs are killed every year because
there
> > aren't enough homes.
>
> BZZZZT - apples and oranges. It's a true AR argument, but it doesn't
> hold water.

ROTFL! Its pure logic- that's why you don't understand. Lets try the math
again... 2 many pets + more pets, does not equal need more pets.


>
> > They most certainly are contributing to the overpopulation problem.
They're
> > breeding more cats and dogs while millions of cats and dogs are killed
every
> > year because there aren't enough homes, aren't they?
>
> Wrong again!

It doesn't look like you know right from wrong.


There aren't enough responsible homes for the millions of
> irresponsibly bred and placed animals.

Ya think? But there would be more homes available for shelter animals if
breeding was banned or regulated and taxed with the revenues going to
shelters. You don't need 100 breeders of a specific breed to "preserve" the
breed.

By the very nature of the
> definition, responsible breeders are not placing in irresponsible homes
> nor are their animals winding up in shelters.

Wow! You're really dense-- or you're an idiot. Its the not placing that's
the problem- its the BREEDING more animals.



Your argument that those
> homes would/should adopt a shelter animal instead is without legs.


I can see why you think so... its too logical for you to understand.



>
> > If breeding was banned
> > or at least regulated, more home would be available to shelter animals.
Its
> > really a simple concept- even for you to understand.
>
> Incorrect! Any puppy is not necessarily the puppy someone wants.
> Poorly bred and socialized animals are not what many are looking for.


"Poorly bred and socialized animals"? You really are a dimwit. There are
millions of animals to choose from in shelters.



> Again, why should responsible owners have to clean up the mess made by
> BYBs who never end?
> >
> > > I've been doing shelter and rescue work since 1992
> >
> >
> > Sure you have... What did you do, adopt a few pedigreed dogs and sell
them
> > to your customers?
>
> You're assinine.

You're not the rescue type.

cshenk
July 10th 08, 05:02 AM
"Phil P." wrote
> "cshenk" wrote in message

> Yeah- I'm a fanatic- I'm fanatical about preventing as many deaths as I
> can.

> You need to take your head out of your ass and take a walk through a kill
> shelter on kill day- then see if you still think there's nothing wrong
> with
> breeding more animals.

Phil, this has been a nice group. I'm asking you to not try to change that.

I have never bred a pet. I have had only 1 'pedigree' pet and that was a
special circumstance from a reputable breeder who didnt believe in killing
the occasional 'mistakes' (and they ALL have them) but letting them free to
good homes to live out what time they have. I was advance warned Roscoe
would probably never make 5 years of age and be very expensive in vet bills.
If they could not find a home for him, they would have had to give him the
big silver needle but they found me. He was 'fixed' a little earlier than
normal because he was *not* to breed (genetics bad).

Some folks want pedigree animals. To assume they will just take anything
from the local pet pound is a mistake. The people you want to go after, is
the non-pedigree group with a heinz-57 they were too cheap to fix.

That said i am very impressed with my local K-9 organization. Sorry to be
slightly offtpic in a 'cat' group but I adopted a cat (Daisy- hard to place,
behavior related, took 18 months to get an offer) and a dog (Cash, beagle
mix with they think bull mastiff). Cash due to heartworms has heart damage
and was hard to place. He also due to the health problems could not be
fixed. It's the rare time you get a rescue dog who hasnt been fixed. They
have been emailing me and I've been passing back the Vet's info on him.
6SEP if all is well, he will be snipped. At that time he is presumed to be
just shy of 3 years old. He's been turned down twice already for snipping
earlier so we keep him closely held. His heart is not up to mating.

cshenk
July 10th 08, 05:10 AM
"Phil P." wrote
> "Janet Boss" wrote in message

> Wow! You're really dense-- or you're an idiot. Its the not placing that's
> the problem- its the BREEDING more animals.

IE: No more cats allowed to have kittens. Fanatical to assume no more
kittensd as in 10-15 years we would not have domestic cats.

> Your argument that those
>> homes would/should adopt a shelter animal instead is without legs.
>
> I can see why you think so... its too logical for you to understand.

Phil, you are not able to think logically about this. You are talking to
people who mostly have cats from just such facilities.

> You're not the rescue type.

What do you know about her other than your assumptions? You already told me
to 'take my head out of my ass' which is not condusive to actually
discussing an issue.

If you want to be an ass, you are doing fine. Folks will ignore you.

Matthew[_3_]
July 10th 08, 05:15 AM
Sorry that will never happen I will and many many many others will listen to
Phil long before I listen to people that just pop in to run their mouths

Robotech_Master
July 10th 08, 05:33 AM
On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 00:02:40 -0400, cshenk > wrote:

> Some folks want pedigree animals. To assume they will just take
> anything from the local pet pound is a mistake.

Yep. You (in the generic all-encompassing "you," not you in
particular cshenk) can rail against those people all you want. You
can even say that if they won't take a shelter cat, they don't deserve
any cat at all. That's your right. But whether these people get
their purebreds or not doesn't affect whether shelter pets would get
rescued if they wouldn't want to rescue a shelter pet anyway.

It's the same sort of reasoning that leads media industry associations
to try to crack down on piracy, because they think that if someone can
no longer pirate he will instead buy everything he would otherwise
have downloaded. It doesn't work like that.

--
Chris Meadows aka | WWW: http://www.terrania.us | Somebody
Robotech_Master | ICQ: 5477383 AIM: RoboMastr | help, I'm
| Skype, LJ-Gizmo: Robotech_Master | trapped in
| Yahoo: robotech_master_2000 | a sig file!

Phil P.
July 10th 08, 05:35 AM
"cshenk" > wrote in message
...
> "Phil P." wrote
> > "cshenk" wrote in message
>
> > Yeah- I'm a fanatic- I'm fanatical about preventing as many deaths as I
> > can.
>
> > You need to take your head out of your ass and take a walk through a
kill
> > shelter on kill day- then see if you still think there's nothing wrong
> > with
> > breeding more animals.
>
> Phil, this has been a nice group. I'm asking you to not try to change
that.


You haven't been here very long. If you support breeding, you won't find it
so nice.


>
> Some folks want pedigree animals. To assume they will just take anything
> from the local pet pound is a mistake.


"Anything"? Poor choice of words for shelter animals.

There are millions of animals already here to choose from.

Phil P.
July 10th 08, 05:52 AM
"cshenk" > wrote in message
...
> "Phil P." wrote
> > "Janet Boss" wrote in message
>
> > Wow! You're really dense-- or you're an idiot. Its the not placing
that's
> > the problem- its the BREEDING more animals.
>
> IE: No more cats allowed to have kittens. Fanatical to assume no more
> kittensd as in 10-15 years we would not have domestic cats.

Well, that about sums up your mentality. That would never happen. Btw, I was
talking about breeders breeding more cats.

How about this: We can start breeding again when all the shelters are empty
and the killing stops.




>
> > Your argument that those
> >> homes would/should adopt a shelter animal instead is without legs.
> >
> > I can see why you think so... its too logical for you to understand.
>
> Phil, you are not able to think logically about this.

I see. And you think its logical to keep breeding more animals while
millions of animals are killed every year in shelters?







>
> > You're not the rescue type.
>
> What do you know about her other than your assumptions?


More than I care to.


You already told me
> to 'take my head out of my ass' which is not condusive to actually
> discussing an issue.

Whatever gave you the idea that I wanted to discuss breeding?

cshenk
July 10th 08, 05:53 AM
"Phil P." wrote
> "cshenk" > wrote in message

>> > You need to take your head out of your ass and take a walk through a
> kill
>> > shelter on kill day- then see if you still think there's nothing wrong
>> > with
>> > breeding more animals.
>>
>> Phil, this has been a nice group. I'm asking you to not try to change
> that.

> You haven't been here very long. If you support breeding, you won't find
> it
> so nice.

In other words, you intend to flame innocent bystanders with any advice you
do not agree with.

I would hate to see this newsgroup devolve to that. I came here because
specifically it seemed not that way.

So, 'you've been here a long time' and all the rest of us should shut up?

>> Some folks want pedigree animals. To assume they will just take anything
>> from the local pet pound is a mistake.

> "Anything"? Poor choice of words for shelter animals.

That was a quote of another. I have never had an aminal that wouldnt
qualify as 'shelter' other than Roscoe which has been mentioned several
times today and is essentially the same.

Phil P.
July 10th 08, 06:09 AM
"cshenk" > wrote in message
...
> "Phil P." wrote
> > "cshenk" > wrote in message
>
> >> > You need to take your head out of your ass and take a walk through a
> > kill
> >> > shelter on kill day- then see if you still think there's nothing
wrong
> >> > with
> >> > breeding more animals.
> >>
> >> Phil, this has been a nice group. I'm asking you to not try to change
> > that.
>
> > You haven't been here very long. If you support breeding, you won't
find
> > it
> > so nice.
>
> In other words, you intend to flame innocent bystanders with any advice
you
> do not agree with.

I'm not the only one who opposes breeding. But to answer your question, if
you intent to support breeding, yes- count on it. I haven't even warmed up
yet.


>
> I would hate to see this newsgroup devolve to that. I came here because
> specifically it seemed not that way.
>
> So, 'you've been here a long time' and all the rest of us should shut up?

Not at all. Just be prepared to get scorched as long you support breeding
here.


>
> >> Some folks want pedigree animals. To assume they will just take
anything
> >> from the local pet pound is a mistake.
>
> > "Anything"? Poor choice of words for shelter animals.

cshenk
July 10th 08, 06:10 AM
"Phil P." wrote

>> IE: No more cats allowed to have kittens. Fanatical to assume no more
>> kittensd as in 10-15 years we would not have domestic cats.
>
> Well, that about sums up your mentality. That would never happen. Btw, I
> was
> talking about breeders breeding more cats.

Thank you for flame number 1

>> >> homes would/should adopt a shelter animal instead is without legs.
>> >
>> > I can see why you think so... its too logical for you to understand.
>>
>> Phil, you are not able to think logically about this.
>
> I see. And you think its logical to keep breeding more animals while
> millions of animals are killed every year in shelters?

Thank you for another assumption. BTW, all my pets have been shlter sorts
and fixed. Your angst is mis-directed. It may however shy me off to use a
breeder farm next time if folks like you run shelters.

> You already told me
>> to 'take my head out of my ass' which is not condusive to actually
>> discussing an issue.
>
> Whatever gave you the idea that I wanted to discuss breeding?

Whatever the hell made you tell me to take my head out of my ass when I am
am a total rescue pet owner who's had all my pets fixed before breeding
time?

Now what started this thread? One innocent guy with a pedigree cat set to
breeding to another. Then the yahoos got wierd and he left.

Phil P.
July 10th 08, 06:24 AM
"cshenk" > wrote in message
...

It may however shy me off to use a
> breeder farm next time if folks like you run shelters.

The devil made you do it! lol

cshenk
July 10th 08, 06:34 AM
"Phil P." wrote
>
> It may however shy me off to use a
>> breeder farm next time if folks like you run shelters.
>
> The devil made you do it! lol

You took that out of context. I said in essense you shy me off shelters
with your attitude. I will use breeder cast offs only if you are a sample
of shelter attitudes.

Phil P.
July 10th 08, 06:50 AM
"cshenk" > wrote in message
...
> "Phil P." wrote
> >
> > It may however shy me off to use a
> >> breeder farm next time if folks like you run shelters.
> >
> > The devil made you do it! lol
>
> You took that out of context. I said in essense you shy me off shelters
> with your attitude. I will use breeder cast offs only if you are a sample
> of shelter attitudes.

Bu bu but didn't you already say you get your animals from shelters??? Your
sleazy guilt trip didn't even get off the ground. lol

cshenk
July 10th 08, 07:57 AM
"Phil P." wrote

> Bu bu but didn't you already say you get your animals from shelters???
> Your
> sleazy guilt trip didn't even get off the ground. lol

Is there some reason why you seem to get off on insulting others? I have
not insulted you even once but you've deliberately done so to me several
times in just one evening.

This time you called me sleazy for adopting rescue pets?

I'm asking you again to let this newsgroup be as a nice place that it has
been for the 4 months or so I have been here. We dont need insults. It's
irrelevant if you have been here longer. It's only relevant how you act.

Phil P.
July 10th 08, 10:36 AM
"cshenk" > wrote in message
...
> "Phil P." wrote
>
> > Bu bu but didn't you already say you get your animals from shelters???
> > Your
> > sleazy guilt trip didn't even get off the ground. lol
>
> Is there some reason why you seem to get off on insulting others?


Stop whining. You brought this on yourself by insulting me in your first
post to this thread.


I have
> not insulted you even once

Yes, you have.


but you've deliberately done so to me several
> times in just one evening.


Its still early.


>
> This time you called me sleazy for adopting rescue pets?


That's not what I said. I said your guilt trip was sleazy.

Let me refresh your memory:

"It may however shy me off to use a breeder farm next time if folks like you
run shelters." and " I said in essense you shy me off shelters
with your attitude. I will use breeder cast offs only if you are a sample
of shelter attitudes."


Sounds like a sleazy threat or guilt trip to me. So you won't adopt a
shelter cat because you don't like my attitude towards people who support
breeding? I have a better idea: If you don't like my attitude, don't come
to my shelter. How's that?


>
> I'm asking you again to let this newsgroup be as a nice place

Maybe you should have thought about that before you hit the send button on
your first post.

Janet Boss
July 10th 08, 12:35 PM
In article >,
Cheryl > wrote:

>
> Janet, you don't get the math. Or you know the wrong sort of people
> to have pets.

I get the math very well. Responsible owners and responsible breeders
are not the ones filling shelters . Animal welfare should be about
education and keeping pets in homes and not IRRESPONSIBLY breeding them.
The more we just keep taking and thinking that everyone should not breed
and adopt "until there are none", the longer it will take for there to
be "none".

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet Boss
July 10th 08, 12:38 PM
In article <[email protected]>, "Phil P." >
wrote:

>
>
> Yeah, like taking your class on shocking and chocking their dogs.... They're
> a mixed bag, alright--->>

No choking, no shocking, but it you want to talk dog training, do that
on an appropriate forum.
>
> Wow! You're really dense-- or you're an idiot. Its the not placing that's
> the problem- its the BREEDING more animals.

It *is* placement. Appropriate placement means animals STAY in homes,
don't get irresponsibly bred and don't fill shelters. You aren't very
familiar with responsible breeding.

> "Poorly bred and socialized animals"? You really are a dimwit. There are
> millions of animals to choose from in shelters.

There are. And some may be suitable for many homes while others are
not. Personally, if I want and adult pet, I go the shelter or rescue
route. If I want a young (puppy or kitten) animal, I want to go with a
well bred and well socialized, and healthy animal from a responsible
breeder. I have both.
>
> You're not the rescue type.

And you base this on??????? OOH - I know - total ignorance!

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet Boss
July 10th 08, 12:44 PM
In article <[email protected]>, "Phil P." >
wrote:

>
> Yeah- I'm a fanatic- I'm fanatical about preventing as many deaths as I can.
>

But your "logic" is illogical. If someone wants a well bred and well
socialized animal of a specific breed, they are NOT necessarily (in
fact, rarely) going to go to a shelter and adopt cat or dog "x".
>
> You need to take your head out of your ass and take a walk through a kill
> shelter on kill day- then see if you still think there's nothing wrong with
> breeding more animals.

I've been spending many years in "kill" shelters TYVM. What do I see?
The castoff of the IRRESPONSIBLE. Education, education, education,
low-cost S/N, TNR, training, counseling. These are things that stop
filling shelters, not banning RESPONSIBLE breeding.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet Boss
July 10th 08, 12:47 PM
In article >,
Robotech_Master > wrote:

> But whether these people get
> their purebreds or not doesn't affect whether shelter pets would get
> rescued if they wouldn't want to rescue a shelter pet anyway.

Amazing that SOMEONE gets it!

I *do* want shelter or rescue animals. Sometimes. I want a well bred
puppy sometimes too. I have both. And I've done a helluva lot of work
for shelter and rescue animals as well. One does not need to adopt them
all to help them. There are a lot of collectors out there with savior
complexes though.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

cybercat
July 10th 08, 02:08 PM
"cshenk" > wrote >
> What do you know about her other than your assumptions?

We have read Janet for years.

cybercat
July 10th 08, 02:10 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "cshenk" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Phil P." wrote
>> > "cshenk" wrote in message
>>
>> > Yeah- I'm a fanatic- I'm fanatical about preventing as many deaths as I
>> > can.
>>
>> > You need to take your head out of your ass and take a walk through a
> kill
>> > shelter on kill day- then see if you still think there's nothing wrong
>> > with
>> > breeding more animals.
>>
>> Phil, this has been a nice group. I'm asking you to not try to change
> that.
>
>
> You haven't been here very long. If you support breeding, you won't find
> it
> so nice.
>
>
>>
>> Some folks want pedigree animals. To assume they will just take anything
>> from the local pet pound is a mistake.
>
>
> "Anything"? Poor choice of words for shelter animals.
>
> There are millions of animals already here to choose from.
>
>

Anyone who could ever even just stand in a room at a single shelter
and see all the beautiful cats that need homes--just one shelter, with
a tiny fraction of the animals who suffer and die due to overpopulation--
and support breeders or breeding under any circumstances is not
someone I want to know.

Janet Boss
July 10th 08, 02:11 PM
In article >,
"cybercat" > wrote:

> animals who suffer and die due to overpopulation--


You misspelled irresponsible owners.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

CatNipped[_2_]
July 10th 08, 02:42 PM
"cshenk" > wrote in message
...

> special circumstance from a reputable breeder who didnt believe in killing
> the occasional 'mistakes' (and they ALL have them)

OK, after writing the above, you can still be a proponent of breeding??!
It's OK for breeders to produce all these "defected cats" who are only
expected to live 5 years???! Your own words condemn you and argue against
you, you're just too dense to see it!

CatNipped[_2_]
July 10th 08, 02:51 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...

> nor are their animals winding up in shelters. Your argument that those
> homes would/should adopt a shelter animal instead is without legs.

It just floors me when pro-breeder fruitcakes use the argument "if they
couldn't get a pedigree they wouldn't adopt a shelter cat". You know what?
HOORAYYYYYYYY! If a person is too much of a snob to adopt a cat just for
the sake of loving cats then that person *SHOULDN'T* have a cat, they should
buy a Mercedes to show the world how big their dick is.

Matthew[_3_]
July 10th 08, 06:10 PM
"cshenk" > wrote in message
...
> "Phil P." wrote
>
>> Bu bu but didn't you already say you get your animals from shelters???
>> Your
>> sleazy guilt trip didn't even get off the ground. lol
>
> Is there some reason why you seem to get off on insulting others? I have
> not insulted you even once but you've deliberately done so to me several
> times in just one evening.
>
> This time you called me sleazy for adopting rescue pets?
>
> I'm asking you again to let this newsgroup be as a nice place that it has
> been for the 4 months or so I have been here. We dont need insults. It's
> irrelevant if you have been here longer. It's only relevant how you act.


Than leave don't let the door knob hit you where the good lord split ya'

Phil is one of the main people here one of the main influences here He has
been here for YEARS

He help save three of my cats Do you think I or anyone else gives a ****
what some dumb dog bitch and some 4 month newbie wants.

I WANT PHIL HERE If you don't like how he is kill file him or STFU and
move one.

Matthew[_3_]
July 10th 08, 06:12 PM
"Janet Boss" >


God this is an ignorant want a be breed [email protected]

IN the flush file she goes. People move on she is a waste of breath

Janet
July 10th 08, 07:35 PM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Phil P." >
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Yeah- I'm a fanatic- I'm fanatical about preventing as many deaths as I
>> can.
>>
>
> But your "logic" is illogical. If someone wants a well bred and well
> socialized animal of a specific breed, they are NOT necessarily (in
> fact, rarely) going to go to a shelter and adopt cat or dog "x".
>>
>> You need to take your head out of your ass and take a walk through a kill
>> shelter on kill day- then see if you still think there's nothing wrong
>> with
>> breeding more animals.
>
> I've been spending many years in "kill" shelters TYVM. What do I see?
> The castoff of the IRRESPONSIBLE. Education, education, education,
> low-cost S/N, TNR, training, counseling. These are things that stop
> filling shelters, not banning RESPONSIBLE breeding.
>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

A while back on this thread I asked, very innocently, if there were
generally understood "rules" for responsible cat breeders the way there are
for dog breeders. You know, spay/neuter contracts, rehoming, health
testings, etc.

To date, no one has answered my question.

At this point I'm assuming that it is because either there are no such cat
breeders, or that anyone who dares to answer the question will be flamed
within an inch of their lives by some of the posters here.

BTW, IMHO Janet Boss is correct: that the people to go after and try hard to
change are the people who randomly let their cats breed and do nothing to
ensure that they have good lifetime homes and don't produce more cats. The
public needs to be taught what a responsible breeder is, the importance of
dealing only with such an individual or a shelter, and how to find one. I
also agree that people who want a pet with a certain appearance and a
certain temperament--ie, a recognizable "breed"--are not necessarily going
to adopt a shelter animal of unknown provenance and breeding if the desired
animal is not available. They MAY go to the breed rescue organization and
adopt there instead. (Of course, the breed rescues are usually run by
responsible breeders....at least in the dog world.)

Before you leap on me, I have a [spayed, not declawed, indoor] cat found by
me as a stray and subsequently adopted through our local cat rescue
organization, and a [spayed] "purebred"--read puppymill product bought by
ignoramuses and dumped in a shelter--dog adopted through breed rescue.

Janet Boss
July 10th 08, 07:45 PM
In article >,
"Janet" > wrote:

>
> A while back on this thread I asked, very innocently, if there were
> generally understood "rules" for responsible cat breeders the way there are
> for dog breeders. You know, spay/neuter contracts, rehoming, health
> testings, etc.
>
> To date, no one has answered my question.
>
> At this point I'm assuming that it is because either there are no such cat
> breeders, or that anyone who dares to answer the question will be flamed
> within an inch of their lives by some of the posters here.

Cat breed clubs appear to have very similar COEs to dog breed clubs, so
I venture to say that the answer is yes.

As far as anyone answering your question without using expletives and
offering breeder bashing, good luck on that!

I have 2 more dogs than you do, but my cat is indoor (welcome to be out
with us, but he prefers indoors), not declawed, shelter adoptee. My one
purebred dog is puppymill breeding through a breed rescue (after failure
in 2 homes and 2 shelters stays at the tender age of 5.5 months), and my
oldest dog is a mixed breed, surrendered to the shelter by her first
owner at 20 months, and she's 11.5 years old now. My youngest is a
purebred, responsibly bred dog of a breed that TG, is extremely rare to
find in a shelter or rescue. A breed not without health problems, but
breeders are working hard to eliminate those. It's not a simple task,
but a worthwhile one.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet
July 10th 08, 07:51 PM
"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> "Janet Boss" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> nor are their animals winding up in shelters. Your argument that those
>> homes would/should adopt a shelter animal instead is without legs.
>
> It just floors me when pro-breeder fruitcakes use the argument "if they
> couldn't get a pedigree they wouldn't adopt a shelter cat". You know
> what? HOORAYYYYYYYY! If a person is too much of a snob to adopt a cat
> just for the sake of loving cats then that person *SHOULDN'T* have a cat,
> they should buy a Mercedes to show the world how big their dick is.

It's my observation that there's a big difference between most people's
assumptions around cat owning and dog owning, and that it affects how they
select them.

People don't expect much of cats. They make all kinds of justifications why
it's fine to have a cat that is unfriendly, scratches or bites, destroys the
furniture, etc. They don't expect to train the cat to be a "good citizen." A
lot of people's cat care routine consists of just filling the dishes and
scooping. Some people just open the door and let their cat roam at will.
Their cat isn't going to be picked up by the local animal control officer,
and they aren't going to be required to license it. If some day the cat
doesn't return, they just shrug and get another one from the shelter. And so
on.

Sure, there are plenty of dog owners out there that are just about as bad.
But even the most neglected dog is a hell of a lot more work and more
expensive to own than the average cat. All of which means that cats are even
more disposable than dogs to most people. Unfortunately.

CatNipped[_2_]
July 10th 08, 08:16 PM
"Janet" > wrote in message
...

> But even the most neglected dog is a hell of a lot more work and more
> expensive to own than the average cat.

ROTFLMAOWTIME!!! Ohmygawd, ohmygawd, I can't stop gasping from laughter! I
think I may have peed a little bit!!!

If *NOTHING* else has proved your ignorance about cats to the world, this
one statement is all it would take!

Matthew[_3_]
July 11th 08, 12:08 AM
"CatNipped" > wrote in message
...
> "Janet" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> But even the most neglected dog is a hell of a lot more work and more
>> expensive to own than the average cat.
>
> ROTFLMAOWTIME!!! Ohmygawd, ohmygawd, I can't stop gasping from laughter!
> I think I may have peed a little bit!!!
>
> If *NOTHING* else has proved your ignorance about cats to the world, this
> one statement is all it would take!
She is a total nut job ain't she I am glad I put her in the kill file

cshenk
July 11th 08, 01:44 AM
"cybercat" wrote

>>> Some folks want pedigree animals. To assume they will just take
>>> anything
>>> from the local pet pound is a mistake.
>>
>>
>> "Anything"? Poor choice of words for shelter animals.
>>
>> There are millions of animals already here to choose from.

> Anyone who could ever even just stand in a room at a single shelter
> and see all the beautiful cats that need homes--just one shelter, with
> a tiny fraction of the animals who suffer and die due to overpopulation--
> and support breeders or breeding under any circumstances is not
> someone I want to know.

Cybercat, that was a quote of another, not me.

cshenk
July 11th 08, 01:49 AM
"CatNipped" wrote
> "cshenk" wrote

>> special circumstance from a reputable breeder who didnt believe in
>> killing the occasional 'mistakes' (and they ALL have them)
>
> OK, after writing the above, you can still be a proponent of breeding??!
> It's OK for breeders to produce all these "defected cats" who are only
> expected to live 5 years???! Your own words condemn you and argue against
> you, you're just too dense to see it!

Excuse me? I did NOT post as a proponet of breeders! I said i rescued one
pet from a reputable one who had a flawed kitty that should not breed.

You dont have to be a pedigreed cat to have a batch with one that is the
runt of the litter. I rescued the runt of the litter. That can happen
anytime. Just like humans sometimes have a baby that has a disability, you
do not toss such out but care for them.

Janet
July 11th 08, 02:48 PM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
ng.com...
>
> "CatNipped" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Janet" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> But even the most neglected dog is a hell of a lot more work and more
>>> expensive to own than the average cat.
>>
>> ROTFLMAOWTIME!!! Ohmygawd, ohmygawd, I can't stop gasping from laughter!
>> I think I may have peed a little bit!!!
>>
>> If *NOTHING* else has proved your ignorance about cats to the world, this
>> one statement is all it would take!
> She is a total nut job ain't she I am glad I put her in the kill file

Um, I'm a different Janet.

I'm not a nut job. I'm describing what I've observed over the years in all
of the cat owners I've known, which has been many. I don't claim to be an
expert on cats.

Janet Boss
July 11th 08, 02:58 PM
In article >,
"Janet" > wrote:

>
> Um, I'm a different Janet.
>
> I'm not a nut job. I'm describing what I've observed over the years in all
> of the cat owners I've known, which has been many. I don't claim to be an
> expert on cats.

Someone who can't carry on a discussion without expletives is not
someone who notice such subtleties as addresses or names.

I think cats can be more difficult in many ways, but they *tend* to be
less time consuming. Most spend more hours sleeping than most dogs, are
simpler to "housebreak" and don't go through puppy destructive periods
(not that cats can't be destructive, but it is very different). Cats
don't need walks and the same level of exercise that most dogs do, and
most of their needs can be accomplished within the confines of the home.





Of course, they all need mental and physical exercise, veterinary care,
feeding, cleaning and grooming, but overall, most of those things are
far less than for a dog, particularly larger dogs. So many costs are
size dependent and that alone is a factor!

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com