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Robotech_Master
July 7th 08, 03:26 PM
My old cat just recently left me, and I'm planning to get another. In
fact, I'm planning to get two more, so they will have each other for
company while I am at work.

The cats do not yet know each other; they have never met. One is a 1
1/2 year old male Bengal cat (neutered, or will be): the other is a
2-or-so year old spayed female moggie down at my vet's.

Would it be best to introduce them both to their new home at the same
time, so they can get acquainted with me and each other before either
has had a chance to form a territorial attachment? Will I still need
to do the "separate rooms and feed each other on opposite sides of the
door" getting-acquainted time? Any other advice?

--
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Rene S.
July 7th 08, 04:56 PM
> Would it be best to introduce them both to their new home at the same
> time, so they can get acquainted with me and each other before either
> has had a chance to form a territorial attachment? *Will I still need
> to do the "separate rooms and feed each other on opposite sides of the
> door" getting-acquainted time? *Any other advice?

If it were me, I'd get them at the same time, but still keep them
separate until you get a sense of their personalities. Even if they
aren't used to your place, moving is still traumatic and they will
need some time to adjust to their surroundings (and you). If you can
get some Feliway diffusers, I would put one in each room where each
cat is.

Rene

Bobblespin
July 7th 08, 04:58 PM
Robotech_Master > wrote in
g:

> My old cat just recently left me, and I'm planning to get another. In
> fact, I'm planning to get two more, so they will have each other for
> company while I am at work.
>
> The cats do not yet know each other; they have never met. One is a 1
> 1/2 year old male Bengal cat (neutered, or will be): the other is a
> 2-or-so year old spayed female moggie down at my vet's.
>
> Would it be best to introduce them both to their new home at the same
> time, so they can get acquainted with me and each other before either
> has had a chance to form a territorial attachment? Will I still need
> to do the "separate rooms and feed each other on opposite sides of the
> door" getting-acquainted time? Any other advice?
>

I've read that when cats go to a boarding place there is no problem putting
them in the same area because it isn't either one's territory. I would
think that would be the same in your case.

Bobble

Rene S.
July 7th 08, 08:24 PM
> I've read that when cats go to a boarding place there is no problem putting
> them in the same area because it isn't either one's territory. *I would
> think that would be the same in your case.

The OP *could* do this, but IMHO, to minimize stress to the cats, it
makes more sense to separate them, even if for a couple of days. No
point in creating WWIII if you don't have to, KWIM?

Robotech_Master
July 7th 08, 08:43 PM
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 12:24:15 -0700 (PDT), Rene
S. > wrote:

> The OP *could* do this, but IMHO, to minimize stress to the cats, it
> makes more sense to separate them, even if for a couple of days. No
> point in creating WWIII if you don't have to, KWIM?

Yeah, I think I'll introduce them gradually to each other--keep them
in different rooms, and every so often swap them between the rooms so
they can get used to each other's scent. The rescue agency says that
the bengal is very friendly and gets along well with other cats,
especially females.

Just have to see how things go, I expect. I'm quite looking forward to
it.

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-Lost
July 8th 08, 04:43 AM
Response to Robotech_Master >:

>> The OP *could* do this, but IMHO, to minimize stress to the
>> cats, it makes more sense to separate them, even if for a couple
>> of days. No point in creating WWIII if you don't have to, KWIM?
>
> Yeah, I think I'll introduce them gradually to each other--keep
> them in different rooms, and every so often swap them between the
> rooms so they can get used to each other's scent. The rescue
> agency says that the bengal is very friendly and gets along well
> with other cats, especially females.
>
> Just have to see how things go, I expect. I'm quite looking
> forward to it.

Hrmm... Rene S., is far more experienced than I, but I would be
tempted to feel this situation out.

I thought males and females naturally cohabited a LITTLE easier than
normally. Anyone?

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

blkcatgal
July 8th 08, 04:55 AM
I don't think there is any set rule...each cat is different. Right now, I
am having difficulty getting a female to cohabitate with my 2 male cats. I
agree with Rene S. I would introduce the 2 slowly. They make take to each
other right away...or they may not. Best to take it slowly and not have any
problems.

S.
--
**Visit me and my cats at http://www.island-cats.com/ **
---
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Response to Robotech_Master >:
>
>>> The OP *could* do this, but IMHO, to minimize stress to the
>>> cats, it makes more sense to separate them, even if for a couple
>>> of days. No point in creating WWIII if you don't have to, KWIM?
>>
>> Yeah, I think I'll introduce them gradually to each other--keep
>> them in different rooms, and every so often swap them between the
>> rooms so they can get used to each other's scent. The rescue
>> agency says that the bengal is very friendly and gets along well
>> with other cats, especially females.
>>
>> Just have to see how things go, I expect. I'm quite looking
>> forward to it.
>
> Hrmm... Rene S., is far more experienced than I, but I would be
> tempted to feel this situation out.
>
> I thought males and females naturally cohabited a LITTLE easier than
> normally. Anyone?
>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
July 8th 08, 05:38 AM
Response to "blkcatgal" >:

<snip>

> I don't think there is any set rule...each cat is different.
> Right now, I am having difficulty getting a female to cohabitate
> with my 2 male cats. I agree with Rene S. I would introduce the
> 2 slowly. They make take to each other right away...or they may
> not. Best to take it slowly and not have any problems.

How is that going by the way? Any headway on the "visible kitty"
approach?

Phat Kat and Gabby have been out, by themselves, and overnight for
probably a week now. It still gets too heated and Phat Kat seeks
shelter.

Once in a while we have and continue to anticipate having to put
Gabby up here and there.

We woke up the other night to yowling and pots and pans clattering.
Phat Kat somehow leaped onto the stove and I personally think picked
up 2 pots and hurtled them at Gabby -- I could be wrong though. ; )

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

Phil P.
July 8th 08, 12:29 PM
"bobblespin" > wrote in message
...
> >
>
> I've read that when cats go to a boarding place there is no problem
putting
> them in the same area because it isn't either one's territory.

Most boarding facilities- including vets who board cats- keep the cats in
separate cages to avoid spreading undiagnosed or latent diseases as well as
avoiding intercat aggression. I don't know of any boarding facilities that
allow the cats to interact. I would be very surprised- and disappointed- to
see one.



I would
> think that would be the same in your case.


I think it would be much safer- and wiser- to introduce the cats to each
other gradually- one sense at a time. First scent, then sight, then contact-
at least a week apart.

http://maxshouse.com/introducing_cats.htm

Robotech_Master
July 8th 08, 02:29 PM
On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 11:29:17 GMT, Phil P. > wrote:

> I think it would be much safer- and wiser- to introduce the cats to
> each other gradually- one sense at a time. First scent, then sight,
> then contact- at least a week apart.

> http://maxshouse.com/introducing_cats.htm

Thanks for the link. Good advice on that page.

I was in touch with the lady who runs the rescue agency last night.
The agency is in Mansfield, about 45 miles away from Springfield where
I live; her "day job" (though I think she works a night shift) is with
the Springfield Police Department's K9 unit. She'll be bringing him
into town when she comes to work Friday evening, and I'll be picking
up Diva from the veterinarian's that day as well.

I'm quite excited about this, as it turns out that Benjamin is
actually an F3 (though a very gentle and good-natured one, according
to the lady--good with other cats, and with kids (including her
five-year-old)). He's going to be great big. :)

--
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Robotech_Master
July 8th 08, 02:53 PM
By the way: Benjiman won't be neutered when I get him. Should I have
it done right away, or should I wait until he's acclimatized to his
new home so he won't have too many shocks at once?

--
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CatNipped[_2_]
July 8th 08, 03:10 PM
"Robotech_Master" > wrote in message
g...
> By the way: Benjiman won't be neutered when I get him. Should I have
> it done right away, or should I wait until he's acclimatized to his
> new home so he won't have too many shocks at once?

Personally, I do it right away and get all the trauma over with at once -
and also give him less time to start "spraying" his territory (especially if
there will be another cat in the house). Believe me, I know from
experience, there is *nothing* worse than the smell of an intact tom's
urine!

Hugs,

CatNipped


>
> --
> Chris Meadows aka | WWW: http://www.terrania.us | Somebody
> Robotech_Master | ICQ: 5477383 AIM: RoboMastr | help, I'm
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blkcatgal
July 9th 08, 04:39 AM
We have been making some slow progress. For the past couple of weeks we
have been either 1) putting the new cat in a large dog cage for a couple of
hours and letting the other cats see her as well as feeding all the cats
together or 2) letting new cat have run of the whole house for a few hours
while keeping the one cat she does not get along with separated in another
room. This seems to be going okay even though the one cat that does not get
along with new cat still hisses and growls at her. For the past 2 days we
have been feeding all 3 cats together and letting new cat stay out with both
other cats (totally supervised by me, of course) for a few hours. The one
cat that doesn't get along has just avoided new cat (which is good). This
has been going okay. My only concern is that new cat seems to hyper-focus
too much on the other cats....stalks, jumps on them, chases, etc. She may
only be playing but the playing gets a little rough sometimes. I have tried
to get her attention by using a featherwand, but she still focuses on the
other cat. Not sure what to make of this behavior.

The other thing that has me a little concerned is that when she is out, she
pants quite a bit. Granted, she's running around alot but I've read that
cats shouldn't pant from overexertion. But they will pant if there is a
medical problem or if they are over-stressed. I'm not sure why she is
panting...unless it is that she is totally stressed out.

I still haven't given up on her....thanks for asking.

S.
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Response to "blkcatgal" >:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I don't think there is any set rule...each cat is different.
>> Right now, I am having difficulty getting a female to cohabitate
>> with my 2 male cats. I agree with Rene S. I would introduce the
>> 2 slowly. They make take to each other right away...or they may
>> not. Best to take it slowly and not have any problems.
>
> How is that going by the way? Any headway on the "visible kitty"
> approach?
>
> Phat Kat and Gabby have been out, by themselves, and overnight for
> probably a week now. It still gets too heated and Phat Kat seeks
> shelter.
>
> Once in a while we have and continue to anticipate having to put
> Gabby up here and there.
>
> We woke up the other night to yowling and pots and pans clattering.
> Phat Kat somehow leaped onto the stove and I personally think picked
> up 2 pots and hurtled them at Gabby -- I could be wrong though. ; )
>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

-Lost
July 9th 08, 06:13 AM
Response to "blkcatgal" >:

<snip>

> The other thing that has me a little concerned is that when she is
> out, she pants quite a bit. Granted, she's running around alot
> but I've read that cats shouldn't pant from overexertion. But
> they will pant if there is a medical problem or if they are
> over-stressed. I'm not sure why she is panting...unless it is
> that she is totally stressed out.

I'm not sure, but I am fairly certain that it was your new kitty that
I compared Gabby to.

When you say panting do you mean mouth hanging wide, tongue out, lots
of drool? Dog-like? Heavy kitty breathing?

Every now and again (the only time we've had to put him up), Gabby
gets this utterly glazed over look in his eyes, his pupils dilate to
the point of giant black saucers, his eyes and face twitch, and he
REFUSES to stop harassing <insert anyone or thing>.

However, he mainly focuses that on Phat Kat now.

It is sounding like some territory or "alpha female" thing in your
case. I've no clue really.

> I still haven't given up on her....thanks for asking.

You are most welcome. Our situation is most livable now I think, but
we still have to step in so you are definitely not alone.

Here's more good luck!

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

blkcatgal
July 9th 08, 12:44 PM
Yes, the panting is dog-like...tongue hanging out, heavy breathing. It
really has me concerned. I've read that a cat should not pant like a dog
and would only pant if there was a medical problem or the cat is stressed.

Thanks for the luck....I need it!

S.

"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Response to "blkcatgal" >:
>
> <snip>
>
>> The other thing that has me a little concerned is that when she is
>> out, she pants quite a bit. Granted, she's running around alot
>> but I've read that cats shouldn't pant from overexertion. But
>> they will pant if there is a medical problem or if they are
>> over-stressed. I'm not sure why she is panting...unless it is
>> that she is totally stressed out.
>
> I'm not sure, but I am fairly certain that it was your new kitty that
> I compared Gabby to.
>
> When you say panting do you mean mouth hanging wide, tongue out, lots
> of drool? Dog-like? Heavy kitty breathing?
>
> Every now and again (the only time we've had to put him up), Gabby
> gets this utterly glazed over look in his eyes, his pupils dilate to
> the point of giant black saucers, his eyes and face twitch, and he
> REFUSES to stop harassing <insert anyone or thing>.
>
> However, he mainly focuses that on Phat Kat now.
>
> It is sounding like some territory or "alpha female" thing in your
> case. I've no clue really.
>
>> I still haven't given up on her....thanks for asking.
>
> You are most welcome. Our situation is most livable now I think, but
> we still have to step in so you are definitely not alone.
>
> Here's more good luck!
>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

Robotech_Master
July 9th 08, 09:11 PM
I've gone ahead and set up an appointment with the vet to drop off the
Bengal on Monday evening for a spaying, and to pick him up Tuesday
after work.

The Bengal probably won't be too happy about going in, but by the time
he comes out I imagine he'll feel like he's left a little piece of
himself behind.

--
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Janet Boss
July 9th 08, 09:19 PM
In article >,
Robotech_Master > wrote:

> a spaying, and to pick him up Tuesday
> after work.
>
> The Bengal probably won't be too happy about going in, but by the time
> he comes out I imagine he'll feel like he's left a little piece of
> himself behind.

If they "spay" him, he'll wonder what he had in the first place! I'm
sure his neuter will go fine and the timing is a good thing.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Robotech_Master
July 9th 08, 09:31 PM
On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:19:59 -0400, Janet Boss
> wrote:

> If they "spay" him, he'll wonder what he had in the first place! I'm
> sure his neuter will go fine and the timing is a good thing.

Heh. Too true. :)

I'll say this, though; I'm sure not going to spring for neuticles. :)

--
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Janet Boss
July 9th 08, 09:35 PM
In article >,
Robotech_Master > wrote:

> I'm sure not going to spring for neuticles. :)

I'm very happy to hear that! Talk about something done for vanity (and
not the animal's!)

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Robotech_Master
July 9th 08, 09:41 PM
Incidentally, I'm planning to keep Diva in my bedroom (with litterbox
and food dishes and lots of newspaper over the carpet) for the first
couple of days and give Benji the run of the rest of the apartment
(with litterbox in the bathroom). I'll put their food dishes on
opposite sides of the door when I feed them so they can hear and smell
each other under the door. After the neutering, I'll put Benji in the
bedroom and Diva in the rest of the apartment for a day or so until he
recovers, and then swap them back again.

--
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cshenk
July 10th 08, 03:17 AM
"Robotech_Master" wrote

> I've gone ahead and set up an appointment with the vet to drop off the
> Bengal on Monday evening for a spaying, and to pick him up Tuesday
> after work.

This is the wisest choice.

cshenk
July 10th 08, 03:36 AM
"Robotech_Master" wrote

> Incidentally, I'm planning to keep Diva in my bedroom (with litterbox
> and food dishes and lots of newspaper over the carpet) for the first
> couple of days and give Benji the run of the rest of the apartment
> (with litterbox in the bathroom). I'll put their food dishes on
> opposite sides of the door when I feed them so they can hear and smell
> each other under the door. After the neutering, I'll put Benji in the
> bedroom and Diva in the rest of the apartment for a day or so until he
> recovers, and then swap them back again.

Chris, I know several have told you to separate them right away but in my
experience with both being new and arriving at the same time, this will
actually *cause* problems. You will be creating a 'this is my room and you
belong over there' right at the start. I'm not saying they may not tangle a
little at the start, but that will happen anyways once you let them loose
together and it will be worse in this case (both new) than it will be if you
just let them roam.

They will, if allowed freedom of the house, pick little spots that they like
and naturally avoid the ones they know the other likes (at least when
occupied) for a week or so.
The bengal has been shown to adapt to other cats. What about the girl cat?
If same, it will be fine. Just do not panic at the first 'pussy war' which
is apt to be a settling in phase and mostly hissing and a little chasing.
Do *not* interfere at this stage. It's an animal thing and they have to
settle who is 'boss' among the two of them even if they *do* get along with
other cats in the same house.

That said, as they settle you *may* need to separate the bengal while he's
recovering for a few days. If they were still in 'apha battle' then he wont
be up to continuing and a bad reverse signal of 'I won' might get in the
girls head and prolong the process once he's back up to speed. Dont be
suprised if you find they settle this 'alpha business' in the first 6 hours
if you just let them free together right away and that by the time the
bengal goes to the vet, they are chums and she keeps looking around for him
all night when he's gone.

Yes, 2 litter boxes and separate feeding dishes for 'wet treats' is a good
idea, though you can dispense with the 2nd litter box the moment you see
both using each others if you want.

If you plan to also free-feed a decent dry brand (IAMS or such, check with
vet for names recommended), feed only ones recommended for male cats. It
will not hurt the girl cat to eat it but male cats can develop problems on
dry food if it's cheap stuff. (Never feed alley cat etc). You wont know
the damage until years later when it's too late. I go against the vein of
some here to say free feeding a *decent* dry is ok. I use a wet treat in
the morning and at evening (about 12 hours apart) but have dry out for
Daisy-cat all the time. Currently, IAMS was on sale so got that.

Robotech_Master
July 10th 08, 04:06 AM
On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 22:36:06 -0400, cshenk > wrote:

> Chris, I know several have told you to separate them right away but
> in my experience with both being new and arriving at the same time,
> this will actually *cause* problems.

Aiee, conflicting advice. What am I to do??? I just want them to
make a good first impression on each other...

> Yes, 2 litter boxes and separate feeding dishes for 'wet treats' is
> a good idea, though you can dispense with the 2nd litter box the
> moment you see both using each others if you want.

Well, there's a thought anyway.

> If you plan to also free-feed a decent dry brand (IAMS or such,
> check with vet for names recommended), feed only ones recommended
> for male cats.

I've gone solid with Iam's dry since the last time Gumdrop was sick
and the vet recommended it. (Plus, I'm Christian, and so the brand
name always amuses me.) I would get canned food and feed it to
Gumdrop as a special treat sometimes, but she was mostly on dry
because I figured it was better for her teeth. I'll probably start
off with half a can of canned each once or twice a day along with the
free feed, and may taper off a bit after that.

--
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Phil P.
July 10th 08, 04:18 AM
"Robotech_Master" > wrote in message
g...
> On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 22:36:06 -0400, cshenk > wrote:
>
> > Chris, I know several have told you to separate them right away but
> > in my experience with both being new and arriving at the same time,
> > this will actually *cause* problems.
>
> Aiee, conflicting advice. What am I to do???

Consider the sources.

cshenk
July 10th 08, 04:43 AM
"Robotech_Master" wrote
>cshenk wrote:

>> Chris, I know several have told you to separate them right away but
>> in my experience with both being new and arriving at the same time,
>> this will actually *cause* problems.
>
> Aiee, conflicting advice. What am I to do??? I just want them to
> make a good first impression on each other...

Grin, I took my take on ths from the age of the kitties (1 year or so each),
both new to you, and arriving almost the same time.

Most others were from the perspective it seemed, of adding a cat to an
existing cat household. There is a difference. Some even mentioned it a
little.

I probably should have jumped in a little earlier instead of just reading
but (digging toe in carpet) I was just reading. No one gave you 'bad
advice'. They just seemed more used to adding a cat to an existing
household.

What I find is some cat owners are terrified of the short time when the 'who
is alpha' is established (more obvious in dogs and can be bad harm done with
dogs). You can not stop this. You can only delay it. What will happen is
they will yowl a fre times, chase a few times, perhaps make a little fur fly
in a short battle that 'sounds horrid' but isnt serious nor are they apt to
hurt one another. In the next few hours or a day or so, you find them
sleeping on the same sofa and over the next few days, sharing the ledge at
the window.

Just do not interupt this process. That is where so many go wrong. You will
not only make it worse, you will prolong it.

Experience here: Added 2 new cats at same time to non-cat household. Later
added 2 cats to existing 2 cat household. Have added cats to single cat
homes several times. I am older so this is not wierd as cats tend normally
to live 14-15 years. The tactics for adding a new cat to an existing cat,
are not the same.

The only problem you may have is if the female doesnt like having other cats
around and if so, she's more apt to accept a male. I have not seen a post
of her character on this.

>> Yes, 2 litter boxes and separate feeding dishes for 'wet treats' is
>> a good idea, though you can dispense with the 2nd litter box the
>> moment you see both using each others if you want.
>
> Well, there's a thought anyway.

Grin, if you want to scoup 2, it's ok. 2 cats with a LARGE box works.

>> If you plan to also free-feed a decent dry brand (IAMS or such,
>> check with vet for names recommended), feed only ones recommended
>> for male cats.
>
> I've gone solid with Iam's dry since the last time Gumdrop was sick
> and the vet recommended it. (Plus, I'm Christian, and so the brand
> name always amuses me.) I would get canned food and feed it to
> Gumdrop as a special treat sometimes, but she was mostly on dry
> because I figured it was better for her teeth. I'll probably start
> off with half a can of canned each once or twice a day along with the
> free feed, and may taper off a bit after that.

What some will say is 'dry food is horrible' (some are actually a bit
fanatic on it) but actually a decent grade of dry is fine. Cats are better
off if they also get wet food at least once a day. Do not be shocked if the
cats like some brands better than others. Daisy hates 9-lives for example
and no cat I have ever had has liked the tuna versions (luck of the draw,
others must or it wouldnt sell).

1/2 a 6oz or so can per feeding is about right. This is the one time you
need (and will always need) separate dishes. The dry food, can be all in
one bowl as can the water if you want. Do not be shocked if you feed
something wet one day and the one cat eats both. That just means the other
one didnt want any of that sort of food just then. If it happens every day
though no matter what the food, you need to wet feed them in separate rooms.

If that happens, always feed the 'alpha' seeming one first then get the
'beta' off to the other room to enjoy 'his' meal in peace. Normally though
you can feed them wet with just a foot or so apart between dishes.

Phil P.
July 10th 08, 05:02 AM
"cshenk" > wrote in message
...
> Chris, I know several have told you to separate them right away but in my
> experience with both being new and arriving at the same time, this will
> actually *cause* problems. You will be creating a 'this is my room and
you
> belong over there' right at the start.

Bad advice. Its not only about introducing new cats to a new environment-
its about introducing the cats to *each other*. This should be done
gradually. A fight at the beginning can ruin their relationship forever.
Some cats get along right from the start- but its just not worth the risk.

cshenk
July 10th 08, 05:23 AM
"Phil P." wrote
> "cshenk" > wrote in message
....
>> Chris, I know several have told you to separate them right away but in my
>> experience with both being new and arriving at the same time, this will
>> actually *cause* problems. You will be creating a 'this is my room and
> you
>> belong over there' right at the start.
>
> Bad advice. Its not only about introducing new cats to a new environment-
> its about introducing the cats to *each other*. This should be done
> gradually. A fight at the beginning can ruin their relationship forever.
> Some cats get along right from the start- but its just not worth the risk.

Must be one of the folks terrified of the normal settling. No matter. You
have listed zero experience with 2 new cats both 1 year or less in age added
at the same time.

The critical part is the gaes and 'same time'. It is NOT the same as adding
a cat to a house that already has a cat.

If he follows your advice it eventually still work, but will take longer by
far and result in more fights but 'what the hey', you want to be the
'expert' really bad!

Robotech_Master
July 10th 08, 05:23 AM
On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 03:18:09 GMT, Phil P. > wrote:
>
> "Robotech_Master" > wrote in message

> Consider the sources.

Well, let's see.

One guy on the Internet is telling me to keep them separate.

Another guy on the Internet is telling me to put them together.

Okay, I've considered the sources. It doesn't help much.

--
Chris Meadows aka | WWW: http://www.terrania.us | Somebody
Robotech_Master | ICQ: 5477383 AIM: RoboMastr | help, I'm
| Skype, LJ-Gizmo: Robotech_Master | trapped in
| Yahoo: robotech_master_2000 | a sig file!

Phil P.
July 10th 08, 05:35 AM
"cshenk" > wrote in message
...

>
> Must be one of the folks terrified of the normal settling.

Your method is a recipe for disaster/ return. 90% of the cats I get back
were returned because the apotives didn't follow my introduction
instructions.


No matter. You
> have listed zero experience

Yep- you're right- I have zero experience- you're the expert. lol!

cshenk
July 10th 08, 06:01 AM
"Robotech_Master" wrote
>> Consider the sources.
>
> Well, let's see.
>
> One guy on the Internet is telling me to keep them separate.
>
> Another guy on the Internet is telling me to put them together.
>
> Okay, I've considered the sources. It doesn't help much.

Smile, sorry for the confusion. One fellow (Phil) who works with rescue
animals I think, is a bit upset at me just now. He's not the only one who's
said to intro the cats slowly.

I still think they all arent aware of the ages of the cats in question and
the timeframe as well as 'both at once, not adding a cat to an existing
house'.

If you want to follow them though, I will not be upset at you in any way
<g>. I'm just warning you it will cause establishment of terratory that
they do not have now and a longer process.

You can see Phil's unhappy bit between the lines on cats returned because
they expected immediate 'lovey dovey' behavior. That may be where he is
comming from (not sure).

cshenk
July 10th 08, 06:30 AM
"Phil P." wrote

>> Must be one of the folks terrified of the normal settling.
>
> Your method is a recipe for disaster/ return. 90% of the cats I get back
> were returned because the apotives didn't follow my introduction
> instructions.

Try teling them what to expect next time. Your recvidivism rate may drop.

> No matter. You
>> have listed zero experience
>
> Yep- you're right- I have zero experience- you're the expert. lol!

You listd nothing and i am not a mind reader.

Your attitude is like you own this group. No one else is welcome to have
another idea. If this is so, just say so.

Phil P.
July 10th 08, 06:50 AM
"cshenk" > wrote in message
...
> "Phil P." wrote
>
> >> Must be one of the folks terrified of the normal settling.
> >
> > Your method is a recipe for disaster/ return. 90% of the cats I get back
> > were returned because the apotives didn't follow my introduction
> > instructions.
>
> Try teling them what to expect next time. Your recvidivism rate may drop.



Really? Ya think? Gee, I never would have thought of that....


>
> > No matter. You
> >> have listed zero experience
> >
> > Yep- you're right- I have zero experience- you're the expert. lol!
>
> You listd nothing and i am not a mind reader.
>
> Your attitude is like you own this group. No one else is welcome to have
> another idea.

No one owns this group. Anyone can post whatever they like. Some topics
just draw more flack than others. You just happened to pick a very sensitive
topic to dive into without knowing how hot the water was.

Phil P.
July 10th 08, 07:24 AM
"Robotech_Master" > wrote in message
g...
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 03:18:09 GMT, Phil P. > wrote:
> >
> > "Robotech_Master" > wrote in message
>
> > Consider the sources.
>
> Well, let's see.
>
> One guy on the Internet is telling me to keep them separate.
>
> Another guy on the Internet is telling me to put them together.
>
> Okay, I've considered the sources. It doesn't help much.

The main issue here is introducing two cats to each other. The somewhat
neutral territory might make it a little easier- but the introduction should
still be done gradually. Cats should never be thrown together to work things
out. That's a recipe for disaster.

The chances of the cats becoming good friends will increase dramatically if
the introduction is done properly and slowly. If the introduction is done
right, everything else usually falls into place.

Janet Boss
July 10th 08, 12:52 PM
In article >,
Robotech_Master > wrote:

>
> I've gone solid with Iam's dry since the last time Gumdrop was sick
> and the vet recommended it. (Plus, I'm Christian, and so the brand
> name always amuses me.) I would get canned food and feed it to
> Gumdrop as a special treat sometimes, but she was mostly on dry
> because I figured it was better for her teeth. I'll probably start
> off with half a can of canned each once or twice a day along with the
> free feed, and may taper off a bit after that.

I haven't free fed in years (think of what is growing on the food in the
bowl - ick!) and went to a primarily canned diet for the cats several
years ago. They (now just one) get dry treat at bedtime. Canned food
can provide hydration that many cats don't get adequately otherwise.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

CatNipped[_2_]
July 10th 08, 02:21 PM
"Robotech_Master" > wrote in message
g...
> On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 22:36:06 -0400, cshenk > wrote:
>
>> Chris, I know several have told you to separate them right away but
>> in my experience with both being new and arriving at the same time,
>> this will actually *cause* problems.
>
> Aiee, conflicting advice. What am I to do??? I just want them to
> make a good first impression on each other...
>
>> Yes, 2 litter boxes and separate feeding dishes for 'wet treats' is
>> a good idea, though you can dispense with the 2nd litter box the
>> moment you see both using each others if you want.
>
> Well, there's a thought anyway.
>
>> If you plan to also free-feed a decent dry brand (IAMS or such,
>> check with vet for names recommended), feed only ones recommended
>> for male cats.
>
> I've gone solid with Iam's dry since the last time Gumdrop was sick
> and the vet recommended it. (Plus, I'm Christian, and so the brand
> name always amuses me.) I would get canned food and feed it to
> Gumdrop as a special treat sometimes, but she was mostly on dry
> because I figured it was better for her teeth. I'll probably start
> off with half a can of canned each once or twice a day along with the
> free feed, and may taper off a bit after that.

Before deciding on what food to feed, I would *HIGHLY* recommend you read
this: http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm - it has information
even my vet didn't know (before I showed it to him, after he read it he
started changing his recommendations to patients about what food to feed).
The "sources" are listed at the bottom of the page and are impeccable.

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> Chris Meadows aka | WWW: http://www.terrania.us | Somebody
> Robotech_Master | ICQ: 5477383 AIM: RoboMastr | help, I'm
> | Skype, LJ-Gizmo: Robotech_Master | trapped in
> | Yahoo: robotech_master_2000 | a sig file!

CatNipped[_2_]
July 10th 08, 02:30 PM
"cshenk" > wrote in message
...
> "Robotech_Master" wrote
>>cshenk wrote:
>
>>> Chris, I know several have told you to separate them right away but
>>> in my experience with both being new and arriving at the same time,
>>> this will actually *cause* problems.
>>
>> Aiee, conflicting advice. What am I to do??? I just want them to
>> make a good first impression on each other...
>
> Grin, I took my take on ths from the age of the kitties (1 year or so
> each), both new to you, and arriving almost the same time.
>
> Most others were from the perspective it seemed, of adding a cat to an
> existing cat household. There is a difference. Some even mentioned it a
> little.
>
> I probably should have jumped in a little earlier instead of just reading
> but (digging toe in carpet) I was just reading. No one gave you 'bad
> advice'. They just seemed more used to adding a cat to an existing
> household.
>
> What I find is some cat owners are terrified of the short time when the
> 'who is alpha' is established (more obvious in dogs and can be bad harm
> done with dogs). You can not stop this. You can only delay it. What
> will happen is they will yowl a fre times, chase a few times, perhaps make
> a little fur fly in a short battle that 'sounds horrid' but isnt serious
> nor are they apt to hurt one another. In the next few hours or a day or
> so, you find them sleeping on the same sofa and over the next few days,
> sharing the ledge at the window.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, but do you *have* cats???! "it isn't
serious"???! Cat bites are more harmful than *dog* bites are - the only
bite worse is a human's. Cat claws can also shred an eye or an ear. Are
you truly advising someone to just throw them together and let them duke it
out? Are you willing to pay his vet bills? Will you take the
responsibility if one of the cats loses an eye?

>
> Just do not interupt this process. That is where so many go wrong. You
> will not only make it worse, you will prolong it.
>
> Experience here: Added 2 new cats at same time to non-cat household.
> Later added 2 cats to existing 2 cat household. Have added cats to single
> cat homes several times. I am older so this is not wierd as cats tend
> normally to live 14-15 years. The tactics for adding a new cat to an
> existing cat, are not the same.
>
> The only problem you may have is if the female doesnt like having other
> cats around and if so, she's more apt to accept a male. I have not seen a
> post of her character on this.
>
>>> Yes, 2 litter boxes and separate feeding dishes for 'wet treats' is
>>> a good idea, though you can dispense with the 2nd litter box the
>>> moment you see both using each others if you want.
>>
>> Well, there's a thought anyway.
>
> Grin, if you want to scoup 2, it's ok. 2 cats with a LARGE box works.

Rule of thumb is one box per cat plus one. Some cats will tolerate less,
some cats will pee on your bed - if you want to take the chance of starting
an inappropriate litter box habit that is *really* hard to break, go ahead
and take your chances.

>
>>> If you plan to also free-feed a decent dry brand (IAMS or such,
>>> check with vet for names recommended), feed only ones recommended
>>> for male cats.
>>
>> I've gone solid with Iam's dry since the last time Gumdrop was sick
>> and the vet recommended it. (Plus, I'm Christian, and so the brand
>> name always amuses me.) I would get canned food and feed it to
>> Gumdrop as a special treat sometimes, but she was mostly on dry
>> because I figured it was better for her teeth. I'll probably start
>> off with half a can of canned each once or twice a day along with the
>> free feed, and may taper off a bit after that.
>
> What some will say is 'dry food is horrible' (some are actually a bit
> fanatic on it) but actually a decent grade of dry is fine. Cats are
> better off if they also get wet food at least once a day. Do not be
> shocked if the cats like some brands better than others. Daisy hates
> 9-lives for example and no cat I have ever had has liked the tuna versions
> (luck of the draw, others must or it wouldnt sell).
>
> 1/2 a 6oz or so can per feeding is about right. This is the one time you
> need (and will always need) separate dishes. The dry food, can be all in
> one bowl as can the water if you want. Do not be shocked if you feed
> something wet one day and the one cat eats both. That just means the other
> one didnt want any of that sort of food just then. If it happens every
> day though no matter what the food, you need to wet feed them in separate
> rooms.
>
> If that happens, always feed the 'alpha' seeming one first then get the
> 'beta' off to the other room to enjoy 'his' meal in peace. Normally
> though you can feed them wet with just a foot or so apart between dishes.
>

Chris, I've been posting here since 1995. I have know Phil for many, many
years. I have *NEVER* seen him give bad advice. He has told me things even
my vet didn't know about cat nutrition (and, after reading the information
Phil compiled, my vet *changed* his advice to patients).

Hugs,

CatNipped

Robotech_Master
July 10th 08, 02:33 PM
On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:21:32 -0500, CatNipped
> wrote:

> Before deciding on what food to feed, I would *HIGHLY* recommend
> you read this: http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm

Thanks--some very useful and interesting information there. I will
definitely take it to heart.

--
Chris Meadows aka | WWW: http://www.terrania.us | Somebody
Robotech_Master | ICQ: 5477383 AIM: RoboMastr | help, I'm
| Skype, LJ-Gizmo: Robotech_Master | trapped in
| Yahoo: robotech_master_2000 | a sig file!

CatNipped[_2_]
July 10th 08, 03:01 PM
"Robotech_Master" > wrote in message
g...
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:21:32 -0500, CatNipped
> > wrote:
>
>> Before deciding on what food to feed, I would *HIGHLY* recommend
>> you read this: http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm
>
> Thanks--some very useful and interesting information there. I will
> definitely take it to heart.

That's PhilP's web site BTW. I know I'm as much of a stranger to you as he
is, but I hope you'll take my word that Phil has learned more about cats,
helped more cats, and done more to educate cat owners than any other person
I've ever known. I would (and have) taken his advice (and impressed the
hell out of my vet by what I knew) any day of the week.

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> Chris Meadows aka | WWW: http://www.terrania.us | Somebody
> Robotech_Master | ICQ: 5477383 AIM: RoboMastr | help, I'm
> | Skype, LJ-Gizmo: Robotech_Master | trapped in
> | Yahoo: robotech_master_2000 | a sig file!

Robotech_Master
July 10th 08, 03:14 PM
On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 06:24:35 GMT, Phil P. > wrote:

> The chances of the cats becoming good friends will increase
> dramatically if the introduction is done properly and slowly. If
> the introduction is done right, everything else usually falls into
> place.

Thanks. Your advice is noted. I am seeking advice from all the cat
experts I can find, including folks here, on my LJ friends list, the
Bengals forum, and other such places. I will also be speaking to the
lady who runs the shelter when she comes to drop Benji off tomorrow.

I expect I will be starting them out separated, but probably on a
faster schedule than the one-week phases recommended for introducing a
cat to an established home. Hopefully I can let them get used to each
other easily without forming too-territorial attachments to their
parts of the apartment.

--
Chris Meadows aka | WWW: http://www.terrania.us | Somebody
Robotech_Master | ICQ: 5477383 AIM: RoboMastr | help, I'm
| Skype, LJ-Gizmo: Robotech_Master | trapped in
| Yahoo: robotech_master_2000 | a sig file!

-Lost
July 10th 08, 06:07 PM
Response to "blkcatgal" >:

<snip>

> Yes, the panting is dog-like...tongue hanging out, heavy
> breathing. It really has me concerned. I've read that a cat
> should not pant like a dog and would only pant if there was a
> medical problem or the cat is stressed.

OK, Gabby's is heavy kitty breathing and wide-eyes. As far as I know
(which is not very far):

1. Cats don't drool...
2. Cats don't pant...

....unless something is wrong. I've read a few personal accounts of
stress-induced panting, but all veterinary staff that I talked to
about it says it means something is medically wrong -- and stress
just kicked it off.

Then again, "medically wrong" could mean psycho -- as is the case
with Gabby. He's plum bonkers.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

blkcatgal
July 10th 08, 11:23 PM
Well, I did some more reading and the general concensus is that if the cat
is running around a lot and may be experiencing some stress (which this cat
was) panting may not be unusual. She was out again last night and I did not
see her pant. So, I guess I'll just keep an eye on her for now.

And yes, I think she is a little bonkers too.....

S.
--
**Visit me and my cats at http://www.island-cats.com/ **
---
"-Lost" > wrote in message
...
> Response to "blkcatgal" >:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Yes, the panting is dog-like...tongue hanging out, heavy
>> breathing. It really has me concerned. I've read that a cat
>> should not pant like a dog and would only pant if there was a
>> medical problem or the cat is stressed.
>
> OK, Gabby's is heavy kitty breathing and wide-eyes. As far as I know
> (which is not very far):
>
> 1. Cats don't drool...
> 2. Cats don't pant...
>
> ...unless something is wrong. I've read a few personal accounts of
> stress-induced panting, but all veterinary staff that I talked to
> about it says it means something is medically wrong -- and stress
> just kicked it off.
>
> Then again, "medically wrong" could mean psycho -- as is the case
> with Gabby. He's plum bonkers.
>
> --
> -Lost
> Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
> kidding. No I am not.

Janet
July 11th 08, 10:22 PM
"Robotech_Master" > wrote in message
g...
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:21:32 -0500, CatNipped
> > wrote:
>
>> Before deciding on what food to feed, I would *HIGHLY* recommend
>> you read this: http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm
>
> Thanks--some very useful and interesting information there. I will
> definitely take it to heart.

I've tried feeding my cat both dry food and canned food. (On the advice of
cat-owning friends, and also the practice at the cat shelter.) Originally, I
was feeding her about a quarter of a can every morning, plus free-feeding
dry. Water is always available. (Interestingly, she refuses to drink water
from a dish I set next to her food dishes, and instead drinks from the dog's
bowl.) After a month or so, though, her interest in the canned food dropped
to nothing. I switched around the flavors, to no avail. I've been accustomed
to thinking of canned foods, even the premium ones, as poor quality--since
that is true of dog food--so I just shrugged and stopped buying cans.
Recently, I opened the last can that I had left from my last attempt. She
took at most a mouthful when I put it out, and left the rest. I
refrigerated it and offered it at several other times, but she had no
interest. She strongly prefers kibble.

Since she is estimated to be about 5 years old, according to her teeth, are
her habits already established? What about feeding her plain tuna packed in
water? That was all I had to give her when she first appeared on my
doorstep, and she liked it then. (Of course, she was REALLY hungry.) Is it
too salty?

Is it sufficiently important that she not eat mostly kibble to keep buying
various brands of canned food and trying them out on her? Does switching the
food a lot encourage picky eating, as it does in dogs? Any advice?

Janet Boss
July 11th 08, 11:16 PM
In article >,
"Janet" > wrote:

> (Interestingly, she refuses to drink water
> from a dish I set next to her food dishes, and instead drinks from the dog's
> bowl.)

My cats have always been like that as well. I even got one of those
Drinkwell things, but they didn't drink from it.

>After a month or so, though, her interest in the canned food dropped
> to nothing. I switched around the flavors, to no avail. I've been accustomed
> to thinking of canned foods, even the premium ones, as poor quality--since
> that is true of dog food--so I just shrugged and stopped buying cans.

It's not true of many canned dog foods available today either.

> I
> refrigerated it and offered it at several other times, but she had no
> interest. She strongly prefers kibble.

My cats have always preferred kibble as well, and don't like cold canned
food. I took them off kibble entirely for awhile and now he (only cat
now) only gets some EVO at bedtime.
>
> Since she is estimated to be about 5 years old, according to her teeth, are
> her habits already established? What about feeding her plain tuna packed in
> water? That was all I had to give her when she first appeared on my
> doorstep, and she liked it then. (Of course, she was REALLY hungry.) Is it
> too salty?

Tuna has a few issues apparently. Have you tried pieces vs pate style?
My cats really only wanted pate with the exception of Solid Gold tuna.

> Is it sufficiently important that she not eat mostly kibble to keep buying
> various brands of canned food and trying them out on her? Does switching the
> food a lot encourage picky eating, as it does in dogs? Any advice?


I don't know that it encourages picky eating in either species. I use
Wellness canned for the cat for the most part. I buy the small cans.
More expensive, but I don't refrigerate it that way. I do put a lid on
it between meals (half a can each meal). I buy all flavors but beef, as
that has not been popular. I've occasionally tried a new brand, but
with mixed results. A little Kitty Kaviar on top has encouraged Skip
to eat the canned.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet
July 12th 08, 12:30 AM
"Janet Boss" > wrote in message
news:janet-

<snip>

> My cats have always preferred kibble as well, and don't like cold canned
> food. I took them off kibble entirely for awhile and now he (only cat
> now) only gets some EVO at bedtime.

I tried warming it up before I reoffered it, but she still didn't want it.
What's EVO?

> Tuna has a few issues apparently. Have you tried pieces vs pate style?
> My cats really only wanted pate with the exception of Solid Gold tuna.

No, all of the food I've bought has been pate style. Most of it has been
Nutro, although there was some other similar brand I tried back when she was
still eating it.

> I use
> Wellness canned for the cat for the most part. I buy the small cans.
> More expensive, but I don't refrigerate it that way. I do put a lid on
> it between meals (half a can each meal). I buy all flavors but beef, as
> that has not been popular. I've occasionally tried a new brand, but
> with mixed results. A little Kitty Kaviar on top has encouraged Skip
> to eat the canned.

Wellness is a brand I used to feed my dogs. (I switched in order to be able
to buy it more conveniently, but they did well on it.) So you can leave
covered cat food out for half a day? (I'm assuming that they should have two
meals a day? I haven't addressed that issue because I've been free feeding
kibble....) What is Kitty Kaviar?

Janet Boss
July 12th 08, 11:50 AM
In article >,
"Janet" > wrote:

>
> I tried warming it up before I reoffered it, but she still didn't want it.
> What's EVO?

Innova EVO. It's a grain free food. The dry is like kitty crack it
seems.

> Wellness is a brand I used to feed my dogs. (I switched in order to be able
> to buy it more conveniently, but they did well on it.) So you can leave
> covered cat food out for half a day? (I'm assuming that they should have two
> meals a day? I haven't addressed that issue because I've been free feeding
> kibble....) What is Kitty Kaviar?

I wouldn't do it for 24 hours, but for the 11 between meals, yes. Kitty
Kaviar is flaked dried bonito.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

cshenk
July 12th 08, 03:18 PM
"Janet" wrote

> Since she is estimated to be about 5 years old, according to her teeth,
> are her habits already established? What about feeding her plain tuna
> packed in water? That was all I had to give her when she first appeared on
> my doorstep, and she liked it then. (Of course, she was REALLY hungry.) Is
> it too salty?

You could try regular human food treats (made without salt, like some of the
breast off a baked chicken).

> Is it sufficiently important that she not eat mostly kibble to keep buying
> various brands of canned food and trying them out on her? Does switching
> the food a lot encourage picky eating, as it does in dogs? Any advice?

In my experience, swapping about a little tends to prevent picky eating.