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View Full Version : Is Tiki Cat cat food good quality???


Docberk
October 10th 08, 05:36 PM
My wife and I adopted two 12 week old kittens about a month ago.
Initially, they were on MaxCat at the no-kill shelter where we got
them. When we were shopping for supplies, a woman who owns a mom and
pop pet store told us abotu Tiki Cat and how wonderful it is.

We gave them a few cans and it was eaten up in a matter of two
minutes. They just love every flavor, most of them seafood, and
cannot get enough. I know about the phosphorous issue, etc. with too
much seafood, so we do give the chicken flavor quite often, and use
Merrick Turkey Dinner mixed in from time to time.

My concern is, is it good quality? It is made in Thailand and
supposedly the fish vaught are in an area which has "less heavy
metals" than anywhere.

If it is not really such a great food after all, which brand is the
best canned food??? I heard Weruva was amazing as well.

Rene S.
October 10th 08, 07:23 PM
What bothers me the most about this cat food is that ALL the flavors
are fish. Fish cat foods can cause problems for many cats, including
allergies, feeding only this brand of food could be problematic. The
other thing is that there doesn't seem to be any added nutrients (am I
reading this wrong? I looked at the nutritional information and saw
very few ingredients). I would personally be leery of feeding this
food regularly.

There are lots of good brands of canned cat food. I feed Wellness and
it's a great food. Innova Evo and Nature's Variety are other good
ones. I prefer canned food that is grain free, and these three fit the
bill.

Docberk
October 10th 08, 08:06 PM
On Oct 10, 11:23 am, "Rene S." > wrote:
> What bothers me the most about this cat food is that ALL the flavors
> are fish. Fish cat foods can cause problems for many cats, including
> allergies, feeding only this brand of food could be problematic. The
> other thing is that there doesn't seem to be any added nutrients (am I
> reading this wrong? I looked at the nutritional information and saw
> very few ingredients). I would personally be leery of feeding this
> food regularly.
>
> There are lots of good brands of canned cat food. I feed Wellness and
> it's a great food. Innova Evo and Nature's Variety are other good
> ones. I prefer canned food that is grain free, and these three fit the
> bill.

Thanks!!

D. K. Kraft[_2_]
October 11th 08, 01:26 AM
With patience akin to a cat's, Docberk, on 10/10/2008 12:06 PM typed:
> On Oct 10, 11:23 am, "Rene S." > wrote:
>> What bothers me the most about this cat food is that ALL the flavors
>> are fish. Fish cat foods can cause problems for many cats, including
>> allergies, feeding only this brand of food could be problematic. The
>> other thing is that there doesn't seem to be any added nutrients (am I
>> reading this wrong? I looked at the nutritional information and saw
>> very few ingredients). I would personally be leery of feeding this
>> food regularly.
>>
>> There are lots of good brands of canned cat food. I feed Wellness and
>> it's a great food. Innova Evo and Nature's Variety are other good
>> ones. I prefer canned food that is grain free, and these three fit the
>> bill.
>
> Thanks!!

First, it should be noted that Tiki Cat does not have "flavors," per se, but
different formulas that contain different source fish as their respective
ingredients. For example, the Makaha Luau formula contains mackerel and
sardine cutlets (that have not been pureed to a gray paste), *not* mackerel and
sardine "flavors."

Second, not all of the Tiki Cat formulas contain fish: Puka Puka Luau and
Koolina Luau formulas are only chicken, and chicken and egg, respectively.

Third, all Tiki Cat formulas contain the following vitamins and minerals:
Dicalcium phosphate, Choline chloride, Taurine, Vitamin E supplement,
Zinc sulfate heptahydrate, Ferrous sulfate monohydrate, Thiamine mononitrate
(Vitamin B1), Nicotinic acid (Vitamin B3), Calcium pantothenate, Manganese
sulfate monohydrate, Vitamin A supplement, Potassium iodide, Copper sulfate
pentahydrate, Vitamin D3 supplement, Riboflavin supplement (Vitamin B2),
Pyrodoxine hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Folic acid, Menadione sodium bisulfate
complex (source of Vitamin K), Vitamin B12 supplement. Tiki Cat formulas meet
the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO cat nutrient food profiles for
adult maintenance.

Fourth, Tiki Cat formulas are low magnesium, low phosphate, low sodium and
safe for all adult life stages. The seafood formulas have natural levels of ash
that will vary by formula, and originate from natural carbon levels found in the
whole seafood sources.

Please go to http://www.petropics.com/Ingredients.pdf for a very detailed pdf
file (you'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader or a similar program) on the contents
of every Tiki Cat formula, and an associated nutritional analysis.

Additionally, Rene, I personally would appreciate some supportive data regarding
your assertions that a cat food based on different species of cooked fish would
be problematic for cats. I haven't seen such information in any of the cat care
publications available, nor have I heard it from my vet, and he's well aware
that I feed both my older cats Tiki Cat on a regular basis as part of a rotating
protein source meal plan.

Fur and Purrs --
--
/\ /\ | "To be reminded that one is very much
^o o^ D.K. "Cat" Kraft | like other members of the animal king-
->T<- | dom is often funny...though...I do not
~ Lynnwood, WA | too much mind being somewhat like a
___oOO___OOo___ | cat." -- Joseph Wood Kruch (1893-1970)

cybercat
October 11th 08, 04:14 AM
"D. K. Kraft" > wrote
>
> First, it should be noted that Tiki Cat does not have "flavors," per se,
> but
> different formulas that contain different source fish as their respective
> ingredients. For example, the Makaha Luau formula contains mackerel and
> sardine cutlets (that have not been pureed to a gray paste), *not*
> mackerel and
> sardine "flavors."
>
> Second, not all of the Tiki Cat formulas contain fish: Puka Puka Luau and
> Koolina Luau formulas are only chicken, and chicken and egg, respectively.
>
> Third, all Tiki Cat formulas contain the following vitamins and minerals:
> Dicalcium phosphate, Choline chloride, Taurine, Vitamin E supplement,
> Zinc sulfate heptahydrate, Ferrous sulfate monohydrate, Thiamine
> mononitrate
> (Vitamin B1), Nicotinic acid (Vitamin B3), Calcium pantothenate, Manganese
> sulfate monohydrate, Vitamin A supplement, Potassium iodide, Copper
> sulfate
> pentahydrate, Vitamin D3 supplement, Riboflavin supplement (Vitamin B2),
> Pyrodoxine hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Folic acid, Menadione sodium
> bisulfate
> complex (source of Vitamin K), Vitamin B12 supplement. Tiki Cat formulas
> meet
> the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO cat nutrient food profiles
> for
> adult maintenance.
>
> Fourth, Tiki Cat formulas are low magnesium, low phosphate, low sodium and
> safe for all adult life stages. The seafood formulas have natural levels
> of ash
> that will vary by formula, and originate from natural carbon levels found
> in the
> whole seafood sources.
>
> Please go to http://www.petropics.com/Ingredients.pdf for a very detailed
> pdf
> file (you'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader or a similar program) on the
> contents
> of every Tiki Cat formula, and an associated nutritional analysis.
>
> Additionally, Rene, I personally would appreciate some supportive data
> regarding
> your assertions that a cat food based on different species of cooked fish
> would
> be problematic for cats.


You must be out of your mind, you moron spammer. Blow it out your ass.
People are way too smart for this.

D. K. Kraft[_2_]
October 11th 08, 05:18 AM
With patience akin to a cat's, cybercat, on 10/10/2008 8:14 PM typed:
> "D. K. Kraft" > wrote
>> First, it should be noted that Tiki Cat does not have "flavors," per se,
>> but different formulas that contain different source fish as their respective
>> ingredients. For example, the Makaha Luau formula contains mackerel and
>> sardine cutlets (that have not been pureed to a gray paste), *not*
>> mackerel and sardine "flavors."
>>
>> Second, not all of the Tiki Cat formulas contain fish: Puka Puka Luau and
>> Koolina Luau formulas are only chicken, and chicken and egg, respectively.
>>
>> Third, all Tiki Cat formulas contain the following vitamins and minerals:
>> Dicalcium phosphate, Choline chloride, Taurine, Vitamin E supplement,
>> Zinc sulfate heptahydrate, Ferrous sulfate monohydrate, Thiamine
>> mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Nicotinic acid (Vitamin B3), Calcium pantothenate,
>> Manganese sulfate monohydrate, Vitamin A supplement, Potassium iodide, Copper
>> sulfate pentahydrate, Vitamin D3 supplement, Riboflavin supplement (Vitamin B2),
>> Pyrodoxine hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Folic acid, Menadione sodium
>> bisulfate complex (source of Vitamin K), Vitamin B12 supplement. Tiki Cat
>> formulas meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO cat nutrient food
>> profiles for adult maintenance.
>>
>> Fourth, Tiki Cat formulas are low magnesium, low phosphate, low sodium and
>> safe for all adult life stages. The seafood formulas have natural levels
>> of ash that will vary by formula, and originate from natural carbon levels found
>> in the whole seafood sources.
>>
>> Please go to http://www.petropics.com/Ingredients.pdf for a very detailed
>> pdf file (you'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader or a similar program) on the
>> contents of every Tiki Cat formula, and an associated nutritional analysis.
>>
>> Additionally, Rene, I personally would appreciate some supportive data
>> regarding your assertions that a cat food based on different species of cooked
>> fish would be problematic for cats.
>
>
> You must be out of your mind, you moron spammer. Blow it out your ass.
> People are way too smart for this.

Cybercat, what part of my post lead you to believe I was a spammer, let alone
moronic? The original poster, Docberk, asked if Tiki Cat was good quality cat
food. Rene S. responded with incomplete information about the food itself,
along with unsubstantiated assertions about the safety of fish protein fed to
cats on a regular basis. My post was meant to provide Docberk with detailed
information on Tiki Cat food, as well as to request from Rene S. some supportive
data for her assertions, as I have yet to hear similar information from either
my own vets, research vets, or mainstream cat care publications.

I fail to see how you came to the conclusion that I was moronic or a spammer by
virtue of the above information. And actually, I'd like to know how you came
to that conclusion, as well as what, exactly, people are "way to smart for" as
it pertains to my post. Might be interesting reading, at that.

Don't step in the hairball on the stair --
--
/\ /\ | "To be reminded that one is very much
^o o^ D.K. "Cat" Kraft | like other members of the animal king-
->T<- | dom is often funny...though...I do not
~ Lynnwood, WA | too much mind being somewhat like a
___oOO___OOo___ | cat." -- Joseph Wood Kruch (1893-1970)

Wayne Mitchell
October 11th 08, 02:06 PM
"D. K. Kraft" > wrote:

>I fail to see how you came to the conclusion that I was moronic or a spammer by
>virtue of the above information.

Why, the way she always comes to conclusions -- by great leaps and
bounds.

If you've been reading here for any time at all, I'm sure you're aware
that being called a moron by cybercat doesn't make you in any way
special. It's not an honor one has to earn.
--

Wayne M.

cybercat
October 11th 08, 05:27 PM
"D. K. Kraft" > wrote in message
...
> With patience akin to a cat's, cybercat, on 10/10/2008 8:14 PM typed:
>> "D. K. Kraft" > wrote
>>> First, it should be noted that Tiki Cat does not have "flavors," per se,
>>> but different formulas that contain different source fish as their
>>> respective
>>> ingredients. For example, the Makaha Luau formula contains mackerel and
>>> sardine cutlets (that have not been pureed to a gray paste), *not*
>>> mackerel and sardine "flavors."
>>>
>>> Second, not all of the Tiki Cat formulas contain fish: Puka Puka Luau
>>> and
>>> Koolina Luau formulas are only chicken, and chicken and egg,
>>> respectively.
>>>
>>> Third, all Tiki Cat formulas contain the following vitamins and
>>> minerals:
>>> Dicalcium phosphate, Choline chloride, Taurine, Vitamin E supplement,
>>> Zinc sulfate heptahydrate, Ferrous sulfate monohydrate, Thiamine
>>> mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Nicotinic acid (Vitamin B3), Calcium
>>> pantothenate,
>>> Manganese sulfate monohydrate, Vitamin A supplement, Potassium iodide,
>>> Copper
>>> sulfate pentahydrate, Vitamin D3 supplement, Riboflavin supplement
>>> (Vitamin B2),
>>> Pyrodoxine hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Folic acid, Menadione sodium
>>> bisulfate complex (source of Vitamin K), Vitamin B12 supplement. Tiki
>>> Cat
>>> formulas meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO cat
>>> nutrient food
>>> profiles for adult maintenance.
>>>
>>> Fourth, Tiki Cat formulas are low magnesium, low phosphate, low sodium
>>> and
>>> safe for all adult life stages. The seafood formulas have natural levels
>>> of ash that will vary by formula, and originate from natural carbon
>>> levels found
>>> in the whole seafood sources.
>>>
>>> Please go to http://www.petropics.com/Ingredients.pdf for a very
>>> detailed
>>> pdf file (you'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader or a similar program) on the
>>> contents of every Tiki Cat formula, and an associated nutritional
>>> analysis.
>>>
>>> Additionally, Rene, I personally would appreciate some supportive data
>>> regarding your assertions that a cat food based on different species of
>>> cooked
>>> fish would be problematic for cats.
>>
>>
>> You must be out of your mind, you moron spammer. Blow it out your ass.
>> People are way too smart for this.
>
> Cybercat, what part of my post lead you to believe I was a spammer, let
> alone
> moronic? The original poster, Docberk, asked if Tiki Cat was good quality
> cat
> food. Rene S. responded with incomplete information about the food
> itself,
> along with unsubstantiated assertions about the safety of fish protein fed
> to
> cats on a regular basis. My post was meant to provide Docberk with
> detailed
> information on Tiki Cat food, as well as to request from Rene S. some
> supportive
> data for her assertions, as I have yet to hear similar information from
> either
> my own vets, research vets, or mainstream cat care publications.
>
> I fail to see how you came to the conclusion that I was moronic or a
> spammer by
> virtue of the above information. And actually, I'd like to know how you
> came
> to that conclusion, as well as what, exactly, people are "way to smart
> for" as it pertains to my post. Might be interesting reading, at that.
>
> Don't step in the hairball on the stair --
> --
> /\ /\ | "To be reminded that one is very
> much
> ^o o^ D.K. "Cat" Kraft | like other members of the animal
> king-
> ->T<- | dom is often funny...though...I do
> not
> ~ Lynnwood, WA | too much mind being somewhat like a
> ___oOO___OOo___ | cat." -- Joseph Wood Kruch
> (1893-1970)

You're a moron because there is ample evidence that fish flavored foods are
bad for cats. It's been posted here with supporting links many times.

I have to assume you're selling this crap because there are so many cat
foods that are so much better.

Rene does not have to give you ALL the information. Does your machine access
GOOGLE?

cybercat
October 11th 08, 05:28 PM
"Wayne Mitchell" > wrote in message
...
> "D. K. Kraft" > wrote:
>
>>I fail to see how you came to the conclusion that I was moronic or a
>>spammer by
>>virtue of the above information.
>
> Why, the way she always comes to conclusions -- by great leaps and
> bounds.
>
> If you've been reading here for any time at all, I'm sure you're aware
> that being called a moron by cybercat doesn't make you in any way
> special. It's not an honor one has to earn.
> --
>

It's true. God made most morons stupid. Take you for example.

Rene S.
October 12th 08, 08:00 PM
Please read this article:
http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=whyfishisdangerousforcats

D. K. Kraft[_2_]
October 12th 08, 11:22 PM
With patience akin to a cat's, Rene S., on 10/12/2008 12:00 PM typed:
> Please read this article:
> http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=whyfishisdangerousforcats

Thanks, Rene, I appreciate the reference. However, it is only one webpage, and
by a retired holistic vet, Dr. Jean Hofve. Dr. Hofve may or may not have
included any new, and/or cutting-edge information within this webpage,
especially with her being retired and no longer practicing or consulting. I
mention this just as a detail that should be taken into consideration when
evaluating this information.

In the interest of discussion, I'd like to comment on what Dr. Hofve has posted,
going point by point, below. Since this will be a long post, I'll divide it
into two parts, for consideration of free newsfeed services and their
restrictions. Consider this Part I:

*The fish used in canned pet foods usually includes bones and are high in
phosphorus and magnesium, which can be an issue in cats with a history of
urinary tract disorders or kidney disease. In practice I have seen quite a few
cats develop urinary tract infections and blockages if they eat much fish--even
boneless fish.
---
I believe that Dr. Hofve is referring to canned foods that wouldn't normally be
considered by the discerning cat caretaker. I would also note that the amount
of phosphorus and magnesium in fish bones depend on a) the species of fish, and
b) the environment in which the fish is caught. Including the bone material of
*any* prey species--if there was, say, a ground mouse diet for cats--would
include higher levels of phosphorous and magnesium than just muscle or organ
meat, since bone contains

As to UTI's and FLUTS (Feline Lower Urinary Tract Syndrome), the jury is still
out on whether increased dietary phosphorus and magnesium actually *cause* these
health problems, or aggravate the underlying cause of such conditions. An
incipient and as-yet-unidentified virus has not yet been ruled out. I find it
unusual that Dr. Hofve saw UTI and crystal formation with cats fed boneless
fish, since it *is* the bone that increases the phosphorus and magnesium; I
wonder if the cats in question were not fed boneless fish exclusively, and why
Dr. Hofve didn't note this.
---

* Many cats are sensitive or even allergic to fish; it is one of the top 3 most
common food allergens.
---
This is true, as the top three dietary allergens are as follows: chicken, fish,
and corn. However, and Dr. Hofve herself notes this in the webpage "Food
Allergies in Cats:"
(http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=foodallergiesincats)
"However, an allergy can develop to any protein to which the cat is repeatedly
or constantly exposed." Therefore it follows that one could say that, from an
allergen standpoint, *chicken* could be considered as not beneficial for cats.

The mechanism for dietary allergies has yet to be completely documented; there
will always be some risk for some cats, just as there is some risk for some
humans, depending on genetic background and lineage. The allergen argument
against fish only serves to reinforce the benefits of the rotation diet, so that
a cat isn't exposed to one protein source consistently.

Fish protein as an allergen is also somewhat of a puzzlement, since *fish oil*,
of a quality source and nature, is considered one of the best dietary
supplements for skin and coat support (Omega-3 fatty acid source).
---

* Fish-based foods have high levels of histamine, a protein involved in allergic
reactions.
---
While this may be true (Dr. Hofve doesn't provide supporting data), *any*
protein in a food source is *digested* and *broken down* into its constituent
amino acids. Ingesting histamine will not have any demonstrable effect on the
levels of histamine in the blood, no matter the organism.
---

* Fish tends to be "addictive" to cats. They love it, and will often stage a
"hunger strike" by refusing their regular food in favor of fish. [small edit of
illustrative info for brevity]
---
This is because a cat's sense of smell is 8-12 times more acute than a human's,
and fish oil is a salivary kick-start for cats. They associate the *smell*
with something they really want to eat, and that is why they become patterned to
the scent. I believe this is more true of, say, pure tuna, rather than other
species of fish. Also, if one already supplements with fish oil, this
becomes a non-issue, as the supplemental oil will become the trigger rather than
the food item itself. Again, this supports the benefits of an alternating
protein source diet, so that such patterning isn't allowed to take place.
---

Continued in Part 2 --
--
/\ /\ | "Cats are a mysterious kind of folk.
^o o^ D.K. "Cat" Kraft | There is more passing in their minds
->T<- | than we are aware of."
~ Lynnwood, WA |
___oOO___OOo___ | -- Sir Walter Scott (1771-1832)

cybercat
October 12th 08, 11:24 PM
"Rene S." > wrote in message
...
> Please read this article:
> http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=whyfishisdangerousforcats

This ass has already made his mind up.

D. K. Kraft[_2_]
October 13th 08, 12:27 AM
With patience akin to a cat's, Rene S., on 10/12/2008 12:00 PM typed:
> Please read this article:
>
http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=whyfishisdangerousforcats

Thanks, Rene, I appreciate the reference. However, it is only one webpage, and
by a retired holistic vet, Dr. Jean Hofve. Dr. Hofve may or may not have
included any new, and/or cutting-edge information within this webpage,
especially with her being retired and no longer practicing or consulting. I
mention this just as a detail that should be taken into consideration when
evaluating this information.

In the interest of discussion, I'd like to comment on what Dr. Hofve has posted,
going point by point, below. Since this will be a long post, I'll divide it
into two parts, for consideration of free newsfeed services and their
restrictions. Consider this Part 2:

* There is a known link between the feeding of fish-based canned cat foods and
the development of hyperthyroidism in older cats.
---
Again, where is the supporting data? Hearsay also has hyperthyroidism linked to
FVRCP vaccination, yet there doesn't exist any hard-and-fast data on this,
either. Simply because something has a "known link," doesn't mean it has been
proven to be fact. It would be more accurate to say that fish-based canned cat
foods (again, the quality of the said canned foods is not detailed) *may* play a
role in the development of hyperthyroidism in older cats.
---

* Fish may not be safe to feed to cats. Predatory fish at the top of the food
chain, such as tuna and salmon, may contain very elevated levels of heavy metals
(including mercury) as well as PCBs, pesticides, and other toxins. Tilefish
(listed on pet food labels as "ocean whitefish") are among the worst
contaminated, along with king mackerel, shark, and swordfish. These fish are so
toxic that the FDA advises that women of child-bearing age and children should
avoid them entirely'; and they recommend only 1 serving of albacore tuna per
week due to its high mercury levels. If these fish are dangerous to children,
cats are at even more risk!
---
First, according 2001 sampling data (performed regularly by the EPA, reports
available at their website), shark (average value for all species) topped the
list at 4.5 parts per million of mercury, followed by swordfish at 3.2 ppm,
tilefish at 3.7 ppm, mackerel at 1.6 ppm, large fresh tuna (subspecies, as in
whether albacore or ahi not defined) at 1.3 ppm, snapper at 1.4 ppm, North
American lobster at 1.3 ppm, trout (rainbow) at 1.2 ppm. All other fish were
well below 1.0 ppm, with salmon (average of all species) at .18 ppm. Research
done on preserved museum fish show fish overall had similar mercury levels over
100 years ago, so this is not a new issue--the key is that industrial pollution
affects near-land fish species more than others, and fish that are farmed show a
trend to collect more industrial pollution by virtue of their habitat (or lack
thereof).

Second, the FDA limit for human consumption of mercury is 1.0 ppm, with the EPA
limit being five times lower. However, both claim to be ten times lower than
the lowest level associated with the onset of adverse effects. Cats can tolerate
*ten times* higher levels compared to humans before showing signs of effects.
This doesn't mean that we should adopt a cavalier view about how much mercury
a cat is exposed to, but it *does* mean that they aren't apt to be as fragile as
a human fetus. Ingesting fish carries risk, as there will *always* be
industrial pollution exposure in general, and mercury in specific. The educated
cat caretaker should consider the species and origin of fish in question for the
cat, just as he/she should for his/her own diet.

Third, Tiki Cat addresses the mercury and industrial pollution concern,
specifically using mackerel, sardines, tilapia, and salmon wild caught in the
South Pacific waters, where pollutants have been tested to be at the lowest
levels outside of Arctic waters. The tuna used in their food is Ahi tuna, a
subspecies native to the South Pacific area--it should not be even remotely
considered akin to Albacore tuna, like that canned for human consumption, which
is a "white fish," not red. Ahi tuna has more in common with salmon than the
other species of tuna.

Fourth, proper supplementation with vitamin E and selenium, which are
normally included in any feline diet formulated according to AAFCO
standards, will greatly prevent any oxidation damage from mercury.

Last, the take-home lessons for this point are the following: a) fish will
always have some level of mercury, with some species averaging higher amounts
depending on where they matured and were caught; b) the amount of mercury can be
minimized when good quality fish species and sources are used; c) the toxic
effects of mercury will be greatly decreased/prevented with proper
supplementation of vitamin E and selenium; and d) because of certain fish
species carrying a higher industrial pollutant load than, say, poultry, it
isn't advisable to feed fish *exclusively* to your feline companion, even
Tiki Cat--an advisement, once again, for rotating your food protein source.
---

* The vast majority of salmon today comes from factory-farmed fish. [details on
farmed fish snipped for brevity]
---
This is true of fish-based canned cat foods *other* than Tiki Cat, and becomes
a non-issue in light of the wild sources used for Tiki Cat formulas.
---

* Farmed salmon who escape their pens (and they do) outcompete [sic] and
interbreed with wild salmon, as well as transmit diseases. [details on sea lice
and other farmed fish parasites snipped for brevity]
---
While it is true that farmed salmon escape their pens and often interbreed with
wild salmon, it is rare that the resulting fry of that union will survive, as
they lack the hybrid vigor of the wild salmon. Also, because farmed salmon are
generally anemic and do carry a higher parasite load, they rarely, if ever, have
the health or ability to "out-compete" with wild salmon. They do pass on
diseases and parasites, but because the overall health of wild salmon is much
more robust, they don't tend to succumb to these health issues to the same
degree as farmed salmon.

The concern at this time, with regard to wild salmon populations, is an overall
decrease in the populations due to interbreeding between wild and farmed, and
the non-survival of the resulting fry. In other words, the fry of wild + farmed
salmon are wimpy fish and end up being something else's dinner instead of
surviving to perpetuate the species. A lose-lose situation overall, including
for the something gaining dinner from it.
---

* "Organic" salmon is also farm-raised, and does not have to comply with USDA
organic standards. In fact, there is no regulatory agency in the United States
that sets organic standards for fish. The contaminant level of organic farmed
salmon may be just as high as that of conventional farmed salmon.

This is true and shows the failing of the "organic" method as it pertains to
aquaculture. However, this is also a non-issue when specifically discussing the
quality of Tiki Cat, given this canned food's documented sources.
---

To conclude my post, I believe that Dr. Hofve raises some valid concerns about
_poor_ fish sources used in poor quality canned cat foods. However, I don't
believe this information should be used to paint *good quality* fish foods, such
as Tiki Cat, with the same negative brush as, say, Fancy Feast. I hold the
point of view that fish is *not* "bad" to feed to cats, as long as it is a
quality species and source, is properly supplemented, and is part of a rotating
protein diet. Given the fact that fish as a protein source will *always* carry
higher industrial pollutants than land-based food animals, I feel it unwise to
feed fish *exclusively*. Variety in the diet is more than the "spice of life,"
is it the key to more robust immune system and overall health.

As humans should do with their _own_ food sources: read the label, contact the
manufacturer with questions, educate yourself as to the source and ingredients
of what goes into the can.

(To read the complete statements of Dr. Hofve, please go to the webpage
referenced above. Statement details were only edited for brevity and not
content.)

Thanks for reading --
--
/\ /\ | "Cats are a mysterious kind of folk.
^o o^ D.K. "Cat" Kraft | There is more passing in their minds
->T<- | than we are aware of."
~ Lynnwood, WA |
___oOO___OOo___ | -- Sir Walter Scott (1771-1832)

Docberk
October 13th 08, 09:38 PM
I am sorry I started this thread. I just wanted to know if I am
harming my kittens giving them this food, and this has turned into a
disturbing battle of internet wit. A simple answer would be
sufficient.

After speaking to others, I am alternating Tiki Cat with Wellness,
Weruva and Merrick with mostly Turkey, Chicken and other fowl
flavors.

cybercat
October 13th 08, 10:25 PM
"Docberk" > wrote in message
...
>I am sorry I started this thread. I just wanted to know if I am
> harming my kittens giving them this food, and this has turned into a
> disturbing battle of internet wit. A simple answer would be
> sufficient.
>
> After speaking to others, I am alternating Tiki Cat with Wellness,
> Weruva and Merrick with mostly Turkey, Chicken and other fowl
> flavors.

I would ditch the "Tiki-cat." Fish foods are not a good idea.

John Doe
August 13th 09, 02:26 AM
a longtime regular troll,
uses "cat lover" as a pretense to spontaneously insult/praise others,
like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde


"cybercat" <cyberpurrs yahoo.com> wrote:

> Path: news.astraweb.com!border1.newsrouter.astraweb.com! newshub.sdsu.edu!news.motzarella.org!motzarella.or g!not-for-mail
> From: "cybercat" <cyberpurrs yahoo.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> Subject: Re: Is Tiki Cat cat food good quality???
> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:28:05 -0400
> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
> Lines: 21
> Message-ID: <gcqk6t$k28$1 registered.motzarella.org>
> References: <cdf026c0-aac4-4d06-a55b-4da9d5ab51bf v56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <ad265865-5b9e-44c1-893e-e0fe2bf50545 v30g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> <67b77746-d496-48ec-a03d-8012930d54fa f77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <gcorrf$1t9$1 registered.motzarella.org> <gcp5na$asb$1 registered.motzarella.org> <gcp9ea$p2t$1 registered.motzarella.org> <b091f4hkg1nem0jr4j7fl2of53k89jle1l 4ax.com>
> X-Trace: feeder.motzarella.org U2FsdGVkX195uK11zrQl7cmYJtEdC8DLE/dfjHjno92br5KqQbExswBvos4qDugeLuu3iHJhjL4sxbxdNozF qmvdxnoERVTopyB8TSmQjjCdmQSbdx/ruXEFdvx4z1xzyZ3I7Zx9EFhApJngcT39vA==
> X-Complaints-To: Please send complaints to abuse motzarella.org with full headers
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:28:13 +0000 (UTC)
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579
> X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512
> X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX1+ep4pvWg7NJD2JqrzmNqdLYUm304IBzbK7wdXScp B8fg==
> Cancel-Lock: sha1:Pl2qFBIZkAJzrCedfV/nWtczdbI=
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>
>
> "Wayne Mitchell" <gwmitchell104 pobox.com> wrote in message
> news:b091f4hkg1nem0jr4j7fl2of53k89jle1l 4ax.com...
>> "D. K. Kraft" <kraftycats verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I fail to see how you came to the conclusion that I was moronic or a
>>>spammer by
>>>virtue of the above information.
>>
>> Why, the way she always comes to conclusions -- by great leaps and
>> bounds.
>>
>> If you've been reading here for any time at all, I'm sure you're aware
>> that being called a moron by cybercat doesn't make you in any way
>> special. It's not an honor one has to earn.
>> --
>>
>
> It's true. God made most morons stupid. Take you for example.
>
>
>
>

cyberpurrs
August 13th 09, 02:28 AM
"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
>a longtime regular troll,
> uses "cat lover" as a pretense to spontaneously insult/praise others,
> like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde
>
>
> "cybercat" <cyberpurrs yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Path:
>> news.astraweb.com!border1.newsrouter.astraweb.com! newshub.sdsu.edu!news.motzarella.org!motzarella.or g!not-for-mail
>> From: "cybercat" <cyberpurrs yahoo.com>
>> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
>> Subject: Re: Is Tiki Cat cat food good quality???
>> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:28:05 -0400
>> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
>> Lines: 21
>> Message-ID: <gcqk6t$k28$1 registered.motzarella.org>
>> References: <cdf026c0-aac4-4d06-a55b-4da9d5ab51bf
>> v56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <ad265865-5b9e-44c1-893e-e0fe2bf50545
>> v30g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> <67b77746-d496-48ec-a03d-8012930d54fa
>> f77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <gcorrf$1t9$1 registered.motzarella.org>
>> <gcp5na$asb$1 registered.motzarella.org> <gcp9ea$p2t$1
>> registered.motzarella.org> <b091f4hkg1nem0jr4j7fl2of53k89jle1l 4ax.com>
>> X-Trace: feeder.motzarella.org
>> U2FsdGVkX195uK11zrQl7cmYJtEdC8DLE/dfjHjno92br5KqQbExswBvos4qDugeLuu3iHJhjL4sxbxdNozF qmvdxnoERVTopyB8TSmQjjCdmQSbdx/ruXEFdvx4z1xzyZ3I7Zx9EFhApJngcT39vA==
>> X-Complaints-To: Please send complaints to abuse motzarella.org with full
>> headers
>> NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:28:13 +0000 (UTC)
>> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579
>> X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
>> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512
>> X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX1+ep4pvWg7NJD2JqrzmNqdLYUm304IBzbK7wdXScp B8fg==
>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:Pl2qFBIZkAJzrCedfV/nWtczdbI=
>> X-Priority: 3
>> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>>
>>
>> "Wayne Mitchell" <gwmitchell104 pobox.com> wrote in message
>> news:b091f4hkg1nem0jr4j7fl2of53k89jle1l 4ax.com...
>>> "D. K. Kraft" <kraftycats verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I fail to see how you came to the conclusion that I was moronic or a
>>>>spammer by
>>>>virtue of the above information.
>>>
>>> Why, the way she always comes to conclusions -- by great leaps and
>>> bounds.
>>>
>>> If you've been reading here for any time at all, I'm sure you're aware
>>> that being called a moron by cybercat doesn't make you in any way
>>> special. It's not an honor one has to earn.
>>> --
>>>
>>
>> It's true. God made most morons stupid. Take you for example.
>>
>>

Eyyyu. Mark Benson has a hard-on for me.

Back on your meds, son.