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AR[_2_]
November 23rd 08, 04:46 PM
We have a 16 lb. nuetered American shorthair that's the man of the
house. If he meows and I don't let him out he goes and pees on my
kitchen rug a few minutes later! He shows his displeasure in peeing on
any rug he can find if he doesn't like something. He also pees in the
little box, and I'm sure this is spite. I've taken up any rug I can,
and have put citronella oil the rest, but no dice. He free feeds and I
have replaced his food dish with the soiled rug for a few hours so he
would get the idea, brought him over to the soiled rug and yelled at
him, put his food dish on top of that rug as I know cats won't eat
where they pee, but he just went over to the other side to access the
dish.

OK, I admit the cat has won! He is very smart, and obviously smarter
than me! Any ideas?

cybercat
November 23rd 08, 08:56 PM
"AR" > wrote in message
...
> We have a 16 lb. nuetered American shorthair that's the man of the
> house. If he meows and I don't let him out

Stop letting him out. You are confusing him. Confine him to a utility room
or other small room with box, bed, toys, and water, visit him, play with
him, praise him when you see he has gone in the box. After few days, let
him out. First mistake, put him back in there, being sure to visit a lot and
play with him. Never let him out again. He does not neet to go out.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Rene S.
November 24th 08, 03:29 PM
1. Have you taken him to a vet recently? It's possible he has urinary
tract issues or another health problem.
2. Please don't yell at him if he urinates elsewhere. It won't do any
good and might make the situation worse.
3. Don't replace his food dish with the soiled rug. He won't
understand why you are doing that, and may associate that with
somewhere he can urinate.
4. How many litter boxes do you have and how often do you scoop them?

November 24th 08, 03:48 PM
On Nov 23, 11:46*am, AR > wrote:
> We have a 16 lb. nuetered American shorthair that's the man of the
> house. If he meows and I don't let him out he goes and pees on my
> kitchen rug a few minutes later! He shows his displeasure in peeing on
> any rug he can find if he doesn't like something. He also pees in the
> little box, and I'm sure this is spite. I've taken up any rug I can,
> and have put citronella oil the rest, but no dice. He free feeds and I
> have replaced his food dish with the soiled rug for a few hours so he
> would get the idea, brought him over to the soiled rug and yelled at
> him, put his food dish on top of that rug as I know cats won't eat
> where they pee, but he just went over to the other side to access the
> dish.
>
> OK, I admit the cat has won! He is very smart, and obviously smarter
> than me! Any ideas?

Um... some questions:

a) How old is your cat?
b) Is this new behavior?
c) Is he just large, or is he obese?
d) Has he always had access to the outside?

Aging and/or a change in behavior can be indicative of physical
problems underlying this activity. If he is borderline diabetic, he
will be thirsty most of the time, drink a lot, and have continuous
urgency to urinate. Or, as is often the case, neutered males will have
a (relatively) small urethra and be prone to bladder infections and/or
kidney stones. Being overweight can contribute to all of the above and
if left untreated the results can be very bad - even fatal - and can
progress very, very rapidly.

If he has always had access to the outside, and now you are trying to
stop him, he may act out - but it will very rarely be by scent-marking
or random urination. If, like most cats, he is just on the wrong side
of every door then his outdoor demands may be linked to a physical
condition.

Things you can do - yeah, they seem a little gross - smell his pee, if
you can. Does it have even the slightest sweet scent? Does he pee only
a little bit at a time? Does he run when you scream at him or does he
hold his ground?

Any sweet scent -any at all!! - get him tested SOONEST! That is the
first identifiable obvious indication of diabetes. You can also get a
sugar test at your vet if you can collect enough urine. This is only
an indicator - not proof that he has diabetes, by the way. But it does
give you a place to start.

If he pees only a little at a time, that is often an indication of a
bladder infection or stones.

If he holds his ground, he is definitely not well - he is doing what
he does because he must for some physical reason. His eating next to
his pee is another indication of distress as you are correct in
believing that they prefer to keep those activities separate.

If he has any of the indications noted above and you just lock him in
a small room and hope to modify his behavior - you may as well watch
him die. However, if he is entirely healthy that is a way to do it. Be
sure of your cause before you design the cure.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

AR[_2_]
November 25th 08, 01:47 AM
Thanks everyone. I think he's about 8 or 9. A tenant left him. He was
a used cat ;-). He still has a waist, but his stomach hangs a bit. The
behavior started right after I had locked him the bathroom for a half
hour as he wasn't allowing my mom to eat in peace. He peed on the rug
there.We kept the rug up until needed and the behavior stopped even
though there were other rugs he had access to.. I heard rubber backing
attracts them and they are all rubber backed. He also uses the litter
box to pee. I will pay more attention to the amount and scent. He
seems to do though as a protest when he doesn't get what he wants. He
doesn't seem to drink that much. He uses his litter box most of the
time and starts peeing on the rugs when he doesn't get his way or
wants to annoy me.. He hadn't peed on the other rugs for several
months after we took the other one up, but started to in the last few
weeks. I read if there is an infection they associate the litter box
with pain and pee on something soft, but he uses the box daily. He
seems fine otherwise. He does run away when I yell at him.

He's always gone out although I know he shouldn't as he's declawed. I
love to watch him run outside and he can't do that indoors. He will
get heavier I would think. I just don't think it's fair to keep him in
to sit around all day, and sleep and eat. We have loads of windows he
can perch next to and look out, but don't they also need to run and
get exercise? We still let him out it's just not at exactly the time
he wants. He meows his head off and then gets ****ed off literally if
I won't let him out! I don't want to let him out of the apt. as if I
can't go down and open the front door, and no one else lets him out he
pees in the basement as there's no litter box there.

Thanks again guys for all your help.


On Nov 24, 10:48 am, " > wrote:
> On Nov 23, 11:46 am, AR > wrote:
>
> > We have a 16 lb. nuetered American shorthair that's the man of the
> > house. If he meows and I don't let him out he goes and pees on my
> > kitchen rug a few minutes later! He shows his displeasure in peeing on
> > any rug he can find if he doesn't like something. He also pees in the
> > little box, and I'm sure this is spite. I've taken up any rug I can,
> > and have put citronella oil the rest, but no dice. He free feeds and I
> > have replaced his food dish with the soiled rug for a few hours so he
> > would get the idea, brought him over to the soiled rug and yelled at
> > him, put his food dish on top of that rug as I know cats won't eat
> > where they pee, but he just went over to the other side to access the
> > dish.
>
> > OK, I admit the cat has won! He is very smart, and obviously smarter
> > than me! Any ideas?
>
> Um... some questions:
>
> a) How old is your cat?
> b) Is this new behavior?
> c) Is he just large, or is he obese?
> d) Has he always had access to the outside?
>
> Aging and/or a change in behavior can be indicative of physical
> problems underlying this activity. If he is borderline diabetic, he
> will be thirsty most of the time, drink a lot, and have continuous
> urgency to urinate. Or, as is often the case, neutered males will have
> a (relatively) small urethra and be prone to bladder infections and/or
> kidney stones. Being overweight can contribute to all of the above and
> if left untreated the results can be very bad - even fatal - and can
> progress very, very rapidly.
>
> If he has always had access to the outside, and now you are trying to
> stop him, he may act out - but it will very rarely be by scent-marking
> or random urination. If, like most cats, he is just on the wrong side
> of every door then his outdoor demands may be linked to a physical
> condition.
>
> Things you can do - yeah, they seem a little gross - smell his pee, if
> you can. Does it have even the slightest sweet scent? Does he pee only
> a little bit at a time? Does he run when you scream at him or does he
> hold his ground?
>
> Any sweet scent -any at all!! - get him tested SOONEST! That is the
> first identifiable obvious indication of diabetes. You can also get a
> sugar test at your vet if you can collect enough urine. This is only
> an indicator - not proof that he has diabetes, by the way. But it does
> give you a place to start.
>
> If he pees only a little at a time, that is often an indication of a
> bladder infection or stones.
>
> If he holds his ground, he is definitely not well - he is doing what
> he does because he must for some physical reason. His eating next to
> his pee is another indication of distress as you are correct in
> believing that they prefer to keep those activities separate.
>
> If he has any of the indications noted above and you just lock him in
> a small room and hope to modify his behavior - you may as well watch
> him die. However, if he is entirely healthy that is a way to do it. Be
> sure of your cause before you design the cure.
>
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA

honeybunch
November 25th 08, 03:18 AM
On Nov 24, 8:47*pm, AR > wrote:
> Thanks everyone. I think he's about 8 or 9. A tenant left him. He was
> a used cat ;-). He still has a waist, but his stomach hangs a bit. The
> behavior started right after I had locked him the bathroom for a half
> hour as he wasn't allowing my mom to eat in peace. He peed on the rug
> there.We kept the rug up until needed and the behavior stopped even
> though there were other rugs he had access to.. I heard rubber backing
> attracts them and they are all rubber backed. He also uses the litter
> box to pee. I will pay more attention to the amount and scent. He
> seems to do though as a protest when he doesn't get what he wants. He
> doesn't seem to drink that much. He uses his litter box most of the
> time and starts peeing on the rugs when he doesn't get his way or
> wants to annoy me.. He hadn't peed on the other rugs for several
> months after we took the other one up, but started to in the last few
> weeks. I read if there is an infection they associate the litter box
> with pain and pee on something soft, but he uses the box daily. He
> seems fine otherwise. He does run away when I yell at him.
>
> He's always gone out although I know he shouldn't as he's declawed. I
> love to watch him run outside and he can't do that indoors. He will
> get heavier I would think. I just don't think it's fair to keep him in
> to sit around all day, and sleep and eat. We have loads of windows he
> can perch next to and look out, but don't they also need to run and
> get exercise? We still let him out it's just not at exactly the time
> he wants. *He meows his head off and then gets ****ed off literally if
> I won't let him out! I don't want to let him out of the apt. as if I
> can't go down and open the front door, and no one else lets him out he
> pees in the basement as there's no litter box there.
>
> Thanks again guys for all your help.
>
> On Nov 24, 10:48 am, " > wrote:
>
> > On Nov 23, 11:46 am, AR > wrote:
>
> > > We have a 16 lb. nuetered American shorthair that's the man of the
> > > house. If he meows and I don't let him out he goes and pees on my
> > > kitchen rug a few minutes later! He shows his displeasure in peeing on
> > > any rug he can find if he doesn't like something. He also pees in the
> > > little box, and I'm sure this is spite. I've taken up any rug I can,
> > > and have put citronella oil the rest, but no dice. He free feeds and I
> > > have replaced his food dish with the soiled rug for a few hours so he
> > > would get the idea, brought him over to the soiled rug and yelled at
> > > him, put his food dish on top of that rug as I know cats won't eat
> > > where they pee, but he just went over to the other side to access the
> > > dish.
>
> > > OK, I admit the cat has won! He is very smart, and obviously smarter
> > > than me! Any ideas?
>
> > Um... some questions:
>
> > a) How old is your cat?
> > b) Is this new behavior?
> > c) Is he just large, or is he obese?
> > d) Has he always had access to the outside?
>
> > Aging and/or a change in behavior can be indicative of physical
> > problems underlying this activity. If he is borderline diabetic, he
> > will be thirsty most of the time, drink a lot, and have continuous
> > urgency to urinate. Or, as is often the case, neutered males will have
> > a (relatively) small urethra and be prone to bladder infections and/or
> > kidney stones. Being overweight can contribute to all of the above and
> > if left untreated the results can be very bad - even fatal - and can
> > progress very, very rapidly.
>
> > If he has always had access to the outside, and now you are trying to
> > stop him, he may act out - but it will very rarely be by scent-marking
> > or random urination. If, like most cats, he is just on the wrong side
> > of every door then his outdoor demands may be linked to a physical
> > condition.
>
> > Things you can do - yeah, they seem a little gross - smell his pee, if
> > you can. Does it have even the slightest sweet scent? Does he pee only
> > a little bit at a time? Does he run when you scream at him or does he
> > hold his ground?
>
> > Any sweet scent -any at all!! - get him tested SOONEST! That is the
> > first identifiable obvious indication of diabetes. You can also get a
> > sugar test at your vet if you can collect enough urine. This is only
> > an indicator - not proof that he has diabetes, by the way. But it does
> > give you a place to start.
>
> > If he pees only a little at a time, that is often an indication of a
> > bladder infection or stones.
>
> > If he holds his ground, he is definitely not well - he is doing what
> > he does because he must for some physical reason. His eating next to
> > his pee is another indication of distress as you are correct in
> > believing that they prefer to keep those activities separate.
>
> > If he has any of the indications noted above and you just lock him in
> > a small room and hope to modify his behavior - you may as well watch
> > him die. However, if he is entirely healthy that is a way to do it. Be
> > sure of your cause before you design the cure.
>
> > Peter Wieck
> > Melrose Park, PA

Your cat has a urinary infection. Could be from the feed he is
getting. It could be an infection,. If you wont take him to a vet
who can diagnose the problem, then dont let the cat in the house.
This has nothing to do with emotional problems of yours or the cat.
its the cats bladder that is causing the problem. It hurts him like
hell.

cybercat
November 25th 08, 05:30 AM
"AR" > wrote
>
> He's always gone out although I know he shouldn't as he's declawed.


Asshole.\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

November 25th 08, 12:19 PM
On Nov 24, 8:47*pm, AR > wrote:
> Thanks everyone. I think he's about 8 or 9. A tenant left him. He was
> a used cat ;-). He still has a waist, but his stomach hangs a bit. The
> behavior started right after I had locked him the bathroom for a half
> hour as he wasn't allowing my mom to eat in peace. He peed on the rug
> there.We kept the rug up until needed and the behavior stopped even
> though there were other rugs he had access to.. I heard rubber backing
> attracts them and they are all rubber backed. He also uses the litter
> box to pee. I will pay more attention to the amount and scent. He
> seems to do though as a protest when he doesn't get what he wants. He
> doesn't seem to drink that much. He uses his litter box most of the
> time and starts peeing on the rugs when he doesn't get his way or
> wants to annoy me.. He hadn't peed on the other rugs for several
> months after we took the other one up, but started to in the last few
> weeks. I read if there is an infection they associate the litter box
> with pain and pee on something soft, but he uses the box daily. He
> seems fine otherwise. He does run away when I yell at him.
>
> He's always gone out although I know he shouldn't as he's declawed. I
> love to watch him run outside and he can't do that indoors. He will
> get heavier I would think. I just don't think it's fair to keep him in
> to sit around all day, and sleep and eat. We have loads of windows he
> can perch next to and look out, but don't they also need to run and
> get exercise? We still let him out it's just not at exactly the time
> he wants. *He meows his head off and then gets ****ed off literally if
> I won't let him out! I don't want to let him out of the apt. as if I
> can't go down and open the front door, and no one else lets him out he
> pees in the basement as there's no litter box there.
>
> Thanks again guys for all your help.

You have a lot going on. DO test for a urinary infection, diabetes or
kidney stones before engaging in any disciplinary behavior. Further to
that, if your cat is a good eater (and 16 pounds might suggest that)
you might try getting nutmeg grater and grating a *SMALL* amount of
natural Vitamin C into his food every other day until you have a good
diagnosis for any other problems (and tell your Vet that you are doing
this). This will serve to acidify his urine which will help dissolve
stones (if that is the problem) and flush out any sort of fungal
infection. It WILL NOT help any other sort of infection - but it will
cause a small amount of burning if there is such an infection - and
your cat's reaction will be indicative. Our vet strongly suggests the
Vitamin C treatment for male cats prone to stones as a continuing
preventative treatment, and whenever treating for an infection
suggests it as a palliative during the rest of the treatment. Small =
a few mg. no more. Natural, so that it will not repel the cat. It will
not help for diabetes at all.

Consider that a cat that has been declawed would be as if you had your
fingers cut off at the first knuckle. It is a painful procedure when
it happens and causes continuing irritation for the rest of the cat's
life. You did state that this was a 'used' cat - from the fact that it
has beend declawed it has been very badly used. How you got it - as an
abandoned left-over - suggests the same. Likely the cat bites a bit
more than normal - adaptation to not having claws with which to signal
displeasure. Do understand that cats with this handicap must never be
outdoors without supervision. They are utterly helpless if attacked,
cannot climb properly and cannot even run properly should they need
claws for traction. This adds to your complications.

So, verify that it is healthy. Treat it for any problems you discover.
Once treated, there are enzymatic solvents to remove any traces of old
urine and gentle behavior modification will take care of the rest.

A couple of cautions when it comes to cleaning:

a) Bleach: Do not use bleach immediately around your cat. It is a
perfectly acceptable cleaning agent as long as your cat is not
directly exposed to it or will not walk on a wet bleached surface
(then licking its paws). As you keep reading, bleach may become more
and more attractive.

b) Pine-Sol or any Pine-Oil cleaner: Don't. Ever. Pine oils are
analogous to Phenols and cause quick and often permanent damage to any
of the cat species, large or small. They contain terpenes which
damages their livers and by extension their kidneys. Read any cleaner
labels and keep away from anything containing terpenes (pine oils).
Similarly menthol - less toxic, but still related to terpenes.

c) Anything at all containing Phenol - liquid Lysol or _ANY_ similar
material. Just don't. Toxic in microscopic amounts, fatal in tiny
amounts, and typically such cleaners are designed to leave a
antiseptic residue - not good.

The general rule-of-thumb around cats is any cleaner or solvent that
goes 'milky' in water should be avoided.

You will get through this and the both of you will be happier for it.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

November 25th 08, 02:35 PM
On Nov 25, 12:30*am, "cybercat" > wrote:
> "AR" > wrote
>
>
>
> > He's always gone out although I know he shouldn't as he's declawed.
>
> Asshole.\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

You are a piece of work - and dangerous to boot.

Had the OP followed your initial advice and her cat (likely) had a
medical condition, your advice would have killed it. Keep that in what
passes for your mind as you read further.

And now you blame her for the declawing? She clearly stated "Used
Cat". From her questions, she is also clearly not a "cat person", nor
has had much experience with cats. Further, she is trying, reading up
on them and coming here. Where she meets a thoughtless jackass - you.
Imagine how much that will turn her on towards asking for advice.

Just a suggestion: you get more flies with honey than with vinegar.
And if your purpose (here) is to make life better for cats, you are
singularly inept at it. You might try educating people with good,
solid advice based on what cats are, how they generally behave and
what is actually good for them - not what is good for you and what
your received wisdom unencumbered by thought might dictate. Otherwise,
just keep in mind that you leapt to (also poorly conceived) behavior
modification without the slightest concern as to what else may be
going on - and despite the evidence in front of you.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

dejablues[_4_]
November 26th 08, 12:19 AM
> wrote in message
...
On Nov 24, 8:47 pm, AR > wrote:
> Thanks everyone. I think he's about 8 or 9. A tenant left him. He was
> a used cat ;-). He still has a waist, but his stomach hangs a bit. The
> behavior started right after I had locked him the bathroom for a half
> hour as he wasn't allowing my mom to eat in peace. He peed on the rug
> there.We kept the rug up until needed and the behavior stopped even
> though there were other rugs he had access to.. I heard rubber backing
> attracts them and they are all rubber backed. He also uses the litter
> box to pee. I will pay more attention to the amount and scent. He
> seems to do though as a protest when he doesn't get what he wants. He
> doesn't seem to drink that much. He uses his litter box most of the
> time and starts peeing on the rugs when he doesn't get his way or
> wants to annoy me.. He hadn't peed on the other rugs for several
> months after we took the other one up, but started to in the last few
> weeks. I read if there is an infection they associate the litter box
> with pain and pee on something soft, but he uses the box daily. He
> seems fine otherwise. He does run away when I yell at him.

In addition to what Peter said, you need to stop yelling at him and locking
him away when his behavior inconveniences you. He is desperately trying to
tell you something and you aren't listening. Why would he trust you and want
to please you if you are scaring him so.

And take him to the vet, ASAP. Cats with urinary problems will sometimes pee
in their box as well, and symptoms can some and go. He is not doing it to
spite or annoy you, because even though we sometimes think so, they do no
think like people.
Make the effort to bond with him, or give him away.


>
> He's always gone out although I know he shouldn't as he's declawed. I
> love to watch him run outside and he can't do that indoors. He will
> get heavier I would think. I just don't think it's fair to keep him in
> to sit around all day, and sleep and eat. We have loads of windows he
> can perch next to and look out, but don't they also need to run and
> get exercise? We still let him out it's just not at exactly the time
> he wants. He meows his head off and then gets ****ed off literally if
> I won't let him out! I don't want to let him out of the apt. as if I
> can't go down and open the front door, and no one else lets him out he
> pees in the basement as there's no litter box there.
>
> Thanks again guys for all your help.

You have a lot going on. DO test for a urinary infection, diabetes or
kidney stones before engaging in any disciplinary behavior. Further to
that, if your cat is a good eater (and 16 pounds might suggest that)
you might try getting nutmeg grater and grating a *SMALL* amount of
natural Vitamin C into his food every other day until you have a good
diagnosis for any other problems (and tell your Vet that you are doing
this). This will serve to acidify his urine which will help dissolve
stones (if that is the problem) and flush out any sort of fungal
infection. It WILL NOT help any other sort of infection - but it will
cause a small amount of burning if there is such an infection - and
your cat's reaction will be indicative. Our vet strongly suggests the
Vitamin C treatment for male cats prone to stones as a continuing
preventative treatment, and whenever treating for an infection
suggests it as a palliative during the rest of the treatment. Small =
a few mg. no more. Natural, so that it will not repel the cat. It will
not help for diabetes at all.

Consider that a cat that has been declawed would be as if you had your
fingers cut off at the first knuckle. It is a painful procedure when
it happens and causes continuing irritation for the rest of the cat's
life. You did state that this was a 'used' cat - from the fact that it
has beend declawed it has been very badly used. How you got it - as an
abandoned left-over - suggests the same. Likely the cat bites a bit
more than normal - adaptation to not having claws with which to signal
displeasure. Do understand that cats with this handicap must never be
outdoors without supervision. They are utterly helpless if attacked,
cannot climb properly and cannot even run properly should they need
claws for traction. This adds to your complications.

So, verify that it is healthy. Treat it for any problems you discover.
Once treated, there are enzymatic solvents to remove any traces of old
urine and gentle behavior modification will take care of the rest.

A couple of cautions when it comes to cleaning:

a) Bleach: Do not use bleach immediately around your cat. It is a
perfectly acceptable cleaning agent as long as your cat is not
directly exposed to it or will not walk on a wet bleached surface
(then licking its paws). As you keep reading, bleach may become more
and more attractive.

b) Pine-Sol or any Pine-Oil cleaner: Don't. Ever. Pine oils are
analogous to Phenols and cause quick and often permanent damage to any
of the cat species, large or small. They contain terpenes which
damages their livers and by extension their kidneys. Read any cleaner
labels and keep away from anything containing terpenes (pine oils).
Similarly menthol - less toxic, but still related to terpenes.

c) Anything at all containing Phenol - liquid Lysol or _ANY_ similar
material. Just don't. Toxic in microscopic amounts, fatal in tiny
amounts, and typically such cleaners are designed to leave a
antiseptic residue - not good.

The general rule-of-thumb around cats is any cleaner or solvent that
goes 'milky' in water should be avoided.

You will get through this and the both of you will be happier for it.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

AR[_2_]
November 26th 08, 01:16 AM
On Nov 25, 7:19 pm, "dejablues" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Nov 24, 8:47 pm, AR > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thanks everyone. I think he's about 8 or 9. A tenant left him. He was
> > a used cat ;-). He still has a waist, but his stomach hangs a bit. The
> > behavior started right after I had locked him the bathroom for a half
> > hour as he wasn't allowing my mom to eat in peace. He peed on the rug
> > there.We kept the rug up until needed and the behavior stopped even
> > though there were other rugs he had access to.. I heard rubber backing
> > attracts them and they are all rubber backed. He also uses the litter
> > box to pee. I will pay more attention to the amount and scent. He
> > seems to do though as a protest when he doesn't get what he wants. He
> > doesn't seem to drink that much. He uses his litter box most of the
> > time and starts peeing on the rugs when he doesn't get his way or
> > wants to annoy me.. He hadn't peed on the other rugs for several
> > months after we took the other one up, but started to in the last few
> > weeks. I read if there is an infection they associate the litter box
> > with pain and pee on something soft, but he uses the box daily. He
> > seems fine otherwise. He does run away when I yell at him.
>
> In addition to what Peter said, you need to stop yelling at him and locking
> him away when his behavior inconveniences you. He is desperately trying to
> tell you something and you aren't listening. Why would he trust you and want
> to please you if you are scaring him so.
>
> And take him to the vet, ASAP. Cats with urinary problems will sometimes pee
> in their box as well, and symptoms can some and go. He is not doing it to
> spite or annoy you, because even though we sometimes think so, they do no
> think like people.
> Make the effort to bond with him, or give him away.
>
>
>
> > He's always gone out although I know he shouldn't as he's declawed. I
> > love to watch him run outside and he can't do that indoors. He will
> > get heavier I would think. I just don't think it's fair to keep him in
> > to sit around all day, and sleep and eat. We have loads of windows he
> > can perch next to and look out, but don't they also need to run and
> > get exercise? We still let him out it's just not at exactly the time
> > he wants. He meows his head off and then gets ****ed off literally if
> > I won't let him out! I don't want to let him out of the apt. as if I
> > can't go down and open the front door, and no one else lets him out he
> > pees in the basement as there's no litter box there.
>
> > Thanks again guys for all your help.
>
> You have a lot going on. DO test for a urinary infection, diabetes or
> kidney stones before engaging in any disciplinary behavior. Further to
> that, if your cat is a good eater (and 16 pounds might suggest that)
> you might try getting nutmeg grater and grating a *SMALL* amount of
> natural Vitamin C into his food every other day until you have a good
> diagnosis for any other problems (and tell your Vet that you are doing
> this). This will serve to acidify his urine which will help dissolve
> stones (if that is the problem) and flush out any sort of fungal
> infection. It WILL NOT help any other sort of infection - but it will
> cause a small amount of burning if there is such an infection - and
> your cat's reaction will be indicative. Our vet strongly suggests the
> Vitamin C treatment for male cats prone to stones as a continuing
> preventative treatment, and whenever treating for an infection
> suggests it as a palliative during the rest of the treatment. Small =
> a few mg. no more. Natural, so that it will not repel the cat. It will
> not help for diabetes at all.
>
> Consider that a cat that has been declawed would be as if you had your
> fingers cut off at the first knuckle. It is a painful procedure when
> it happens and causes continuing irritation for the rest of the cat's
> life. You did state that this was a 'used' cat - from the fact that it
> has beend declawed it has been very badly used. How you got it - as an
> abandoned left-over - suggests the same. Likely the cat bites a bit
> more than normal - adaptation to not having claws with which to signal
> displeasure. Do understand that cats with this handicap must never be
> outdoors without supervision. They are utterly helpless if attacked,
> cannot climb properly and cannot even run properly should they need
> claws for traction. This adds to your complications.
>
> So, verify that it is healthy. Treat it for any problems you discover.
> Once treated, there are enzymatic solvents to remove any traces of old
> urine and gentle behavior modification will take care of the rest.
>
> A couple of cautions when it comes to cleaning:
>
> a) Bleach: Do not use bleach immediately around your cat. It is a
> perfectly acceptable cleaning agent as long as your cat is not
> directly exposed to it or will not walk on a wet bleached surface
> (then licking its paws). As you keep reading, bleach may become more
> and more attractive.
>
> b) Pine-Sol or any Pine-Oil cleaner: Don't. Ever. Pine oils are
> analogous to Phenols and cause quick and often permanent damage to any
> of the cat species, large or small. They contain terpenes which
> damages their livers and by extension their kidneys. Read any cleaner
> labels and keep away from anything containing terpenes (pine oils).
> Similarly menthol - less toxic, but still related to terpenes.
>
> c) Anything at all containing Phenol - liquid Lysol or _ANY_ similar
> material. Just don't. Toxic in microscopic amounts, fatal in tiny
> amounts, and typically such cleaners are designed to leave a
> antiseptic residue - not good.
>
> The general rule-of-thumb around cats is any cleaner or solvent that
> goes 'milky' in water should be avoided.
>
> You will get through this and the both of you will be happier for it.
>
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA

Thanks Peter for telling him off. I just tried to ignore it. No, I
didn't declaw him, or neuter him, and if I didn't take him in he would
be out on the street as a stray, or worse yet, picked up and killed.
He leads a great life and is spoiled rotten and lives like a king. He
gets ham, and milk--no he's not kosher, fresh chicken and turkey, tuna
and more. I do love cats, but I am a novice at it. We have taken up
all the small area rugs. If he continues to pee out of the box, I will
definitely take him to the vet ASAP. I will see if his urine is sweet
and check for blood in it. He's been outside for 6+ years with no
issues, but your advice is well taken.

He is a little ****, but he's my big little **** and I do love him. I
will pick him up and give him a good long cuddle and tell him I'm
sorry for yelling at him. Thanks again for all your contributions to
my problems with him.

November 26th 08, 01:40 AM
On Nov 25, 8:16*pm, AR > wrote:

> Thanks Peter for telling him off. I just tried to ignore it. No, I
> didn't declaw him, or neuter him, and if I didn't take him in he would
> be out on the street as a stray, or worse yet, picked up and killed.
> He leads a great life and is spoiled rotten and lives like a king. He
> gets ham, and milk--no he's not kosher, fresh chicken and turkey, tuna
> and more. I do love cats, but I am a novice at it. We have taken up
> all the small area rugs. If he continues to pee out of the box, I will
> definitely take him to the vet ASAP. I will see if his urine is sweet
> and check for blood in it. He's been outside for 6+ years with no
> issues, but your advice is well taken.
>
> He is a little ****, but he's my big little **** and I do love him. I
> will pick him up and give him a good long cuddle and tell him I'm
> sorry for yelling at him. Thanks again for all your contributions to
> my problems with him

A couple of things - which might help some.

a) About 80% of all adult cats are lactose-intolerant. So, milk is not
always a good thing to feed him, even if he really loves it. Similarly
cheese, ice-cream or other milk-based foods.
b) Many forms of ham and processed meats are very salty. This could
(and does often in altered cats) contribute to kidney stones. There is
_NOTHING_ wrong with feeding cats with the occasional bit of 'people-
food', but not as a steady diet. High-salt, high-preservative stuff
should be quite limited. Processed meats are significant offenders
here.
c) Cats need taurine as a steady part of their diet. Without it, they
will have all sorts of problems and eventually get several sorts of
nasty deficiency diseases as well as severe digestive problems. So, a
proper 'cat food' should be the bulk of his diet. Or, if your cat will
take it, you may use taurine supplements instead. I know of several
'vintage' cats who must have a very bland diet and do quite well on
white chicken, corn sprouts for roughage (just plant some popcorn) and
a high-taurine cat-specific supplement. Your vet can advise you on
this and other diet options, nor is it at all expensive.
d) There is also nothing wrong with neutering cats - the alternative
in males is often, but not always, scent-marking, roaming, fighting
and other potentially unhappy behaviors - and unwanted kittens, yet
worse. In females, continuous litters, roaming, marking... .

You are doing a good thing by taking on this companion. And do not
expect to know everything or always do the politically correct thing
every time. Life is a balance between risk and happiness for cats as
well as their people, and only you know what is best for the two of
you. So, in the words of the poet, illigitimi non carborundum, follow
your heart and your common sense.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

dejablues[_4_]
November 26th 08, 02:09 AM
"AR" > wrote in message
...
> He
> gets ham, and milk--no he's not kosher, fresh chicken and turkey, tuna
> and more. I do love cats, but I am a novice at it. We have taken up
> all the small area rugs. If he continues to pee out of the box, I will
> definitely take him to the vet ASAP. I will see if his urine is sweet
> and check for blood in it.

Regardless of where he pees, he *needs* to go to the vet. You may see blood,
but by the time you do, the cat is in serious condition. You will not see
traces of blood, or white blood cells, crystals, or bacteria is his urine,
only a urine test can show those. His urine may smell stronger than usual,
or it may not, and sweet-smelling urine may or may not happen, but don't
wait - take him to the vet. You seem to be resisting the vet, and I'm
telling you now, it may get expensive.
He also needs a diet of good cat food. What you are feeding him now is fine
for a very occasional treat, but not as his whole source of nutrition. Salty
and rich foods put a tremendous load on his kidneys. Stop feeding him that
stuff and giving him milk. Encourage him to drink water by changing it
frequently os leaving a tap running, if he likes that.

People here have lots of cat experience so don't get ****ed when they get
frustrated with noobs, and don't just listen to the advice of people who
talk nice to you. You will miss a lot that way.

honeybunch
November 26th 08, 03:11 AM
On Nov 25, 7:19*am, " > wrote:
> On Nov 24, 8:47*pm, AR > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thanks everyone. I think he's about 8 or 9. A tenant left him. He was
> > a used cat ;-). He still has a waist, but his stomach hangs a bit. The
> > behavior started right after I had locked him the bathroom for a half
> > hour as he wasn't allowing my mom to eat in peace. He peed on the rug
> > there.We kept the rug up until needed and the behavior stopped even
> > though there were other rugs he had access to.. I heard rubber backing
> > attracts them and they are all rubber backed. He also uses the litter
> > box to pee. I will pay more attention to the amount and scent. He
> > seems to do though as a protest when he doesn't get what he wants. He
> > doesn't seem to drink that much. He uses his litter box most of the
> > time and starts peeing on the rugs when he doesn't get his way or
> > wants to annoy me.. He hadn't peed on the other rugs for several
> > months after we took the other one up, but started to in the last few
> > weeks. I read if there is an infection they associate the litter box
> > with pain and pee on something soft, but he uses the box daily. He
> > seems fine otherwise. He does run away when I yell at him.
>
> > He's always gone out although I know he shouldn't as he's declawed. I
> > love to watch him run outside and he can't do that indoors. He will
> > get heavier I would think. I just don't think it's fair to keep him in
> > to sit around all day, and sleep and eat. We have loads of windows he
> > can perch next to and look out, but don't they also need to run and
> > get exercise? We still let him out it's just not at exactly the time
> > he wants. *He meows his head off and then gets ****ed off literally if
> > I won't let him out! I don't want to let him out of the apt. as if I
> > can't go down and open the front door, and no one else lets him out he
> > pees in the basement as there's no litter box there.
>
> > Thanks again guys for all your help.
>
> You have a lot going on. DO test for a urinary infection, diabetes or
> kidney stones before engaging in any disciplinary behavior. Further to
> that, if your cat is a good eater (and 16 pounds might suggest that)
> you might try getting nutmeg grater and grating a *SMALL* amount of
> natural Vitamin C into his food every other day until you have a good
> diagnosis for any other problems (and tell your Vet that you are doing
> this). This will serve to acidify his urine which will help dissolve
> stones (if that is the problem) and flush out any sort of fungal
> infection. It WILL NOT help any other sort of infection - but it will
> cause a small amount of burning if there is such an infection - and
> your cat's reaction will be indicative. Our vet strongly suggests the
> Vitamin C treatment for male cats prone to stones as a continuing
> preventative treatment, and whenever treating for an infection
> suggests it as a palliative during the rest of the treatment. Small =
> a few mg. no more. Natural, so that it will not repel the cat. It will
> not help for diabetes at all.
>
> Consider that a cat that has been declawed would be as if you had your
> fingers cut off at the first knuckle. It is a painful procedure when
> it happens and causes continuing irritation for the rest of the cat's
> life. You did state that this was a 'used' cat - from the fact that it
> has beend declawed it has been very badly used. How you got it - as an
> abandoned left-over - suggests the same. Likely the cat bites a bit
> more than normal - adaptation to not having claws with which to signal
> displeasure. Do understand that cats with this handicap must never be
> outdoors without supervision. They are utterly helpless if attacked,
> cannot climb properly and cannot even run properly should they need
> claws for traction. This adds to your complications.
>
> So, verify that it is healthy. Treat it for any problems you discover.
> Once treated, there are enzymatic solvents to remove any traces of old
> urine and gentle behavior modification will take care of the rest.
>
> A couple of cautions when it comes to cleaning:
>
> a) Bleach: Do not use bleach immediately around your cat. It is a
> perfectly acceptable cleaning agent as long as your cat is not
> directly exposed to it or will not walk on a wet bleached surface
> (then licking its paws). As you keep reading, bleach may become more
> and more attractive.
>
> b) Pine-Sol or any Pine-Oil cleaner: Don't. Ever. Pine oils are
> analogous to Phenols and cause quick and often permanent damage to any
> of the cat species, large or small. They contain terpenes which
> damages their livers and by extension their kidneys. Read any cleaner
> labels and keep away from anything containing terpenes (pine oils).
> Similarly menthol - less toxic, but still related to terpenes.
>
> c) Anything at all containing Phenol - liquid Lysol or _ANY_ similar
> material. Just don't. Toxic in microscopic amounts, fatal in tiny
> amounts, and typically such cleaners are designed to leave a
> antiseptic residue - not good.
>
> The general rule-of-thumb around cats is any cleaner or solvent that
> goes 'milky' in water should be avoided.
>
> You will get through this and the both of you will be happier for it.
>
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA

The nutmeg idea sounded so interesting I just tried it and Snappy felt
INCREDIBLY INSULTED. His eyes got enormous and he backed up looking
VERY VERY BETRAYED. Such a poor cat. But he perked up and now he is
chasing a little ball.

Your story about what declawing actually is all about is horrid. How
unkind to do that to an animal.

AR's cat has had a hard life and AR is very kind to come to his
rescue.

AR[_2_]
November 26th 08, 01:50 PM
On Nov 25, 8:40 pm, " > wrote:
> On Nov 25, 8:16 pm, AR > wrote:
>
> > Thanks Peter for telling him off. I just tried to ignore it. No, I
> > didn't declaw him, or neuter him, and if I didn't take him in he would
> > be out on the street as a stray, or worse yet, picked up and killed.
> > He leads a great life and is spoiled rotten and lives like a king. He
> > gets ham, and milk--no he's not kosher, fresh chicken and turkey, tuna
> > and more. I do love cats, but I am a novice at it. We have taken up
> > all the small area rugs. If he continues to pee out of the box, I will
> > definitely take him to the vet ASAP. I will see if his urine is sweet
> > and check for blood in it. He's been outside for 6+ years with no
> > issues, but your advice is well taken.
>
> > He is a little ****, but he's my big little **** and I do love him. I
> > will pick him up and give him a good long cuddle and tell him I'm
> > sorry for yelling at him. Thanks again for all your contributions to
> > my problems with him
>
> A couple of things - which might help some.
>
> a) About 80% of all adult cats are lactose-intolerant. So, milk is not
> always a good thing to feed him, even if he really loves it. Similarly
> cheese, ice-cream or other milk-based foods.
> b) Many forms of ham and processed meats are very salty. This could
> (and does often in altered cats) contribute to kidney stones. There is
> _NOTHING_ wrong with feeding cats with the occasional bit of 'people-
> food', but not as a steady diet. High-salt, high-preservative stuff
> should be quite limited. Processed meats are significant offenders
> here.
> c) Cats need taurine as a steady part of their diet. Without it, they
> will have all sorts of problems and eventually get several sorts of
> nasty deficiency diseases as well as severe digestive problems. So, a
> proper 'cat food' should be the bulk of his diet. Or, if your cat will
> take it, you may use taurine supplements instead. I know of several
> 'vintage' cats who must have a very bland diet and do quite well on
> white chicken, corn sprouts for roughage (just plant some popcorn) and
> a high-taurine cat-specific supplement. Your vet can advise you on
> this and other diet options, nor is it at all expensive.
> d) There is also nothing wrong with neutering cats - the alternative
> in males is often, but not always, scent-marking, roaming, fighting
> and other potentially unhappy behaviors - and unwanted kittens, yet
> worse. In females, continuous litters, roaming, marking... .
>
> You are doing a good thing by taking on this companion. And do not
> expect to know everything or always do the politically correct thing
> every time. Life is a balance between risk and happiness for cats as
> well as their people, and only you know what is best for the two of
> you. So, in the words of the poet, illigitimi non carborundum, follow
> your heart and your common sense.
>
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA

Hi again! The bulk of his diet is Healhwise cat food. I chose it as it
had no artificial ingredients in it , or chicken by products. He just
gets a 1/2 slice of ham about once a week. I didn't realize salt was a
problem. Thanks for letting me know. He has no loose stools or other
problems from the milk I can see so maybe he's not lactose intolerant.
If he's lactose intolerant wouldn't there be symptoms of that? I don't
want to give it to him if it's no good for him.

I've been reading a lot about spite and cats on the net and have read
stories where the cats behavior could only be spite, and have read
where cat professionals DO think some cat behavior is spite. I believe
if a cat can hiss when displeased he can do something he knows his
owner doesn't like either if displeased, like pee. Since it happens
within 10 minutes of when he doesn't get what he wants it is a bit
suspect. I will watch him carefully and keep him fin or a few days so
I can watch him. I'm not there where the cat is all the time, as he's
taken care of by my mom's caretaker when I'm not there. He will go to
the vet on Monday if needed.

Thanks again for all your help!

November 26th 08, 07:54 PM
On Nov 25, 10:11*pm, honeybunch > wrote:
> On Nov 25, 7:19*am, " > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 24, 8:47*pm, AR > wrote:
>
> > > Thanks everyone. I think he's about 8 or 9. A tenant left him. He was
> > > a used cat ;-). He still has a waist, but his stomach hangs a bit. The
> > > behavior started right after I had locked him the bathroom for a half
> > > hour as he wasn't allowing my mom to eat in peace. He peed on the rug
> > > there.We kept the rug up until needed and the behavior stopped even
> > > though there were other rugs he had access to.. I heard rubber backing
> > > attracts them and they are all rubber backed. He also uses the litter
> > > box to pee. I will pay more attention to the amount and scent. He
> > > seems to do though as a protest when he doesn't get what he wants. He
> > > doesn't seem to drink that much. He uses his litter box most of the
> > > time and starts peeing on the rugs when he doesn't get his way or
> > > wants to annoy me.. He hadn't peed on the other rugs for several
> > > months after we took the other one up, but started to in the last few
> > > weeks. I read if there is an infection they associate the litter box
> > > with pain and pee on something soft, but he uses the box daily. He
> > > seems fine otherwise. He does run away when I yell at him.
>
> > > He's always gone out although I know he shouldn't as he's declawed. I
> > > love to watch him run outside and he can't do that indoors. He will
> > > get heavier I would think. I just don't think it's fair to keep him in
> > > to sit around all day, and sleep and eat. We have loads of windows he
> > > can perch next to and look out, but don't they also need to run and
> > > get exercise? We still let him out it's just not at exactly the time
> > > he wants. *He meows his head off and then gets ****ed off literally if
> > > I won't let him out! I don't want to let him out of the apt. as if I
> > > can't go down and open the front door, and no one else lets him out he
> > > pees in the basement as there's no litter box there.
>
> > > Thanks again guys for all your help.
>
> > You have a lot going on. DO test for a urinary infection, diabetes or
> > kidney stones before engaging in any disciplinary behavior. Further to
> > that, if your cat is a good eater (and 16 pounds might suggest that)
> > you might try getting nutmeg grater and grating a *SMALL* amount of
> > natural Vitamin C into his food every other day until you have a good
> > diagnosis for any other problems (and tell your Vet that you are doing
> > this). This will serve to acidify his urine which will help dissolve
> > stones (if that is the problem) and flush out any sort of fungal
> > infection. It WILL NOT help any other sort of infection - but it will
> > cause a small amount of burning if there is such an infection - and
> > your cat's reaction will be indicative. Our vet strongly suggests the
> > Vitamin C treatment for male cats prone to stones as a continuing
> > preventative treatment, and whenever treating for an infection
> > suggests it as a palliative during the rest of the treatment. Small =
> > a few mg. no more. Natural, so that it will not repel the cat. It will
> > not help for diabetes at all.
>
> > Consider that a cat that has been declawed would be as if you had your
> > fingers cut off at the first knuckle. It is a painful procedure when
> > it happens and causes continuing irritation for the rest of the cat's
> > life. You did state that this was a 'used' cat - from the fact that it
> > has beend declawed it has been very badly used. How you got it - as an
> > abandoned left-over - suggests the same. Likely the cat bites a bit
> > more than normal - adaptation to not having claws with which to signal
> > displeasure. Do understand that cats with this handicap must never be
> > outdoors without supervision. They are utterly helpless if attacked,
> > cannot climb properly and cannot even run properly should they need
> > claws for traction. This adds to your complications.
>
> > So, verify that it is healthy. Treat it for any problems you discover.
> > Once treated, there are enzymatic solvents to remove any traces of old
> > urine and gentle behavior modification will take care of the rest.
>
> > A couple of cautions when it comes to cleaning:
>
> > a) Bleach: Do not use bleach immediately around your cat. It is a
> > perfectly acceptable cleaning agent as long as your cat is not
> > directly exposed to it or will not walk on a wet bleached surface
> > (then licking its paws). As you keep reading, bleach may become more
> > and more attractive.
>
> > b) Pine-Sol or any Pine-Oil cleaner: Don't. Ever. Pine oils are
> > analogous to Phenols and cause quick and often permanent damage to any
> > of the cat species, large or small. They contain terpenes which
> > damages their livers and by extension their kidneys. Read any cleaner
> > labels and keep away from anything containing terpenes (pine oils).
> > Similarly menthol - less toxic, but still related to terpenes.
>
> > c) Anything at all containing Phenol - liquid Lysol or _ANY_ similar
> > material. Just don't. Toxic in microscopic amounts, fatal in tiny
> > amounts, and typically such cleaners are designed to leave a
> > antiseptic residue - not good.
>
> > The general rule-of-thumb around cats is any cleaner or solvent that
> > goes 'milky' in water should be avoided.
>
> > You will get through this and the both of you will be happier for it.
>
> > Peter Wieck
> > Melrose Park, PA
>
> The nutmeg idea sounded so interesting I just tried it and Snappy felt
> INCREDIBLY INSULTED. *His eyes got enormous and he backed up looking
> VERY *VERY BETRAYED. *Such a poor cat. *But he perked up and now he is
> chasing a little ball.
>
> Your story about what *declawing actually is all about is horrid. *How
> unkind to do that to an animal.
>
> AR's cat has had a hard life and AR is very kind to come to his
> rescue.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Um.... nutmeg GRATER to grate NATURAL VITAMIN C into his food to
acidify his urine.

If you do, by some strange confluence of circumstances, manage to get
nutmeg inside your cat... well... just be aware that as far as cats
are concerned, it is a natural psychedelic. No wonder his eyes got
huge - you were offering him feline LSD (note, not every cat is
affected by nutmeg as psychedelic, but all cats can get ill from it -
so avoid it anyway).

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Phil P.
November 30th 08, 02:12 AM
> wrote in message
...
Or, as is often the case, neutered males will have
a (relatively) small urethra and be prone to bladder infections and/or
kidney stones.

That's an old, outdated, and very dangerous myth.that you really shouldn't
perpetuate. There
are more than enough idiots that don't neuter their pets for a variety of
utterly stupid reasons as it is- please don't give them another stupid
reason.

The below is an excerpt from a report by the Winn Foundation. Although it
was designed to support early-age neutering, the results still apply since
the control group weren't neutered until sexual maturity.

"Group 1 (11 kittens) were neutered or spayed at 7 weeks of age.
Group 2 (11 kittens) were neutered or spayed at 7 months.
Group 3 (the control group of 9 kittens) were not neutered until maturity
and after the completion of the first phase of the study at 12 months.

"Observations of urinary tract development showed no differences between the
three groups other than the differences related to sex and these were
consistent across all groups. The investigators measured the diameter of the
urethra in the male kittens only and found no differences between the
groups. Concerns have been raised that early neutering would result in
smaller diameters in the urinary tract, resulting in an increased incidence
of cystitis and related problems. This does not appear to be the case. The
main differences observed between the groups occurred in the comparison of
secondary sex characteristics. Males were examined for differences in the
development of the penis and prepuce (skin covering the penis), as well as
for the development of penile spines. The penile spines were absent in Group
1, smaller than normal in Group 2, and normally developed in Group 3. In the
examination of the female kittens, investigators found that the vulvas were
more infantile in Groups 1 and 2 and normal in Group 3. None of these
differences had any impact on the ability to catheterize the kittens.
Concerns that development of the urinary tract might be arrested or impaired
by early spaying and neutering proved unsupported. "

http://www.cfa.org/articles/health/early-neuter.html


Phil

John Doe
August 13th 09, 10:21 PM
AR > wrote:

> We have a 16 lb. nuetered American shorthair that's the man of
> the house. If he meows and I don't let him out he goes and pees
> on my kitchen rug a few minutes later! He shows his displeasure
> in peeing on any rug he can find if he doesn't like something.
> He also pees in the little box, and I'm sure this is spite. I've
> taken up any rug I can, and have put citronella oil the rest,
> but no dice. He free feeds and I have replaced his food dish
> with the soiled rug for a few hours so he would get the idea,
> brought him over to the soiled rug and yelled at him, put his
> food dish on top of that rug as I know cats won't eat where they
> pee, but he just went over to the other side to access the dish.

I suppose this is too late for you, but here is some real
practical advice from a technician... If you want to keep a cat,
the litter box area must be tension free. When an excrement
related problem develops, you must use your head and solve it
indirectly. The litter box area is critical that way, do not
discipline your cat in the litter box area.

Good luck.

John Doe
August 13th 09, 10:26 PM
Longtime regular patently offensive troll,
uses the pretense of a love for cats
as an excuse to insult others


"cybercat" <cyberpurrs yahoo.com> wrote:

> Path: news.astraweb.com!border1.newsrouter.astraweb.com! news.glorb.com!news2!news.nonexiste.net!news.nonex iste.net!feeder.erje.net!news.motzarella.org!motza rella.org!news.motzarella.org!not-for-mail
> From: "cybercat" <cyberpurrs yahoo.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> Subject: Re: HELP! My cat runs my house!
> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 00:30:56 -0500
> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
> Lines: 9
> Message-ID: <ggg2i7$nhs$1 news.motzarella.org>
> References: <58f7888e-eba1-4e0e-8ad5-6e4db1ca8bd7 y18g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> <4c5740df-dd04-423e-b370-75021e3cf674 t11g2000yqg.googlegroups.com> <77206108-26b0-4c63-a396-0501d063007e u14g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>
> X-Trace: news.motzarella.org U2FsdGVkX1/BxmC85xPlw9ZMJ50Wdb3tVBR9dK8n9SI16ZGrD1pLCO6HU/ReRJ/UJTm7qwCR3X64tohtL/qjz6x6bfxLV+rHD5VSdIjUfrRjvlpKQpxCZiRNl1G5IyAB8VrX 61AKU/M=
> X-Complaints-To: Please send complaints to abuse motzarella.org with full headers
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 05:30:47 +0000 (UTC)
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579
> X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512
> X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX18bn1g3qGOtFU6+IdBqoVqIGEeiPUY9Hob56ujaOe VklQ==
> Cancel-Lock: sha1:xLZ/ax4xufOEqt99PVtprWKBPcc=
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>
>
> "AR" <alanryder aol.com> wrote
>>
>> He's always gone out although I know he shouldn't as he's declawed.
>
>
> Asshole.\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>
>
>

John Doe
August 13th 09, 10:35 PM
" > wrote:

> "cybercat" > wrote:
>> "AR" > wrote

>> > He's always gone out although I know he shouldn't as he's
>> > declawed.

Definitely not. That is something I look for in a stray. If it is
declawed, I would try hard to adopt it. It probably would be a
challenge to keep healthy, like making stuff that it can (and
would be motivated to) climb on, without having to use its claws.

>> Asshole.\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

She did not declaw the cat, JudgeMental.

> You are a piece of work - and dangerous to boot.
>
> Had the OP followed your initial advice and her cat (likely) had
> a medical condition, your advice would have killed it. Keep that
> in what passes for your mind as you read further.
>
> And now you blame her for the declawing? She clearly stated
> "Used Cat". From her questions, she is also clearly not a "cat
> person", nor has had much experience with cats. Further, she is
> trying, reading up on them and coming here. Where she meets a
> thoughtless jackass - you. Imagine how much that will turn her
> on towards asking for advice.

That is the problem. JudgeMental and her defender pretend to love
cats, while she insults people, turning them off to asking about
or discussing cats here.

Cheryl[_3_]
August 13th 09, 11:04 PM
"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
> Longtime regular patently offensive troll,
> uses the pretense of a love for cats
> as an excuse to insult others
>
>
> "cybercat" <cyberpurrs yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Path:
>> news.astraweb.com!border1.newsrouter.astraweb.com! news.glorb.com!news2!news.nonexiste.net!news.nonex iste.net!feeder.erje.net!news.motzarella.org!motza rella.org!news.motzarella.org!not-for-mail
>> From: "cybercat" <cyberpurrs yahoo.com>
>> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
>> Subject: Re: HELP! My cat runs my house!
>> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 00:30:56 -0500
>> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
>> Lines: 9
>> Message-ID: <ggg2i7$nhs$1 news.motzarella.org>
>> References: <58f7888e-eba1-4e0e-8ad5-6e4db1ca8bd7
>> y18g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> <4c5740df-dd04-423e-b370-75021e3cf674
>> t11g2000yqg.googlegroups.com> <77206108-26b0-4c63-a396-0501d063007e
>> u14g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>
>> X-Trace: news.motzarella.org
>> U2FsdGVkX1/BxmC85xPlw9ZMJ50Wdb3tVBR9dK8n9SI16ZGrD1pLCO6HU/ReRJ/UJTm7qwCR3X64tohtL/qjz6x6bfxLV+rHD5VSdIjUfrRjvlpKQpxCZiRNl1G5IyAB8VrX 61AKU/M=
>> X-Complaints-To: Please send complaints to abuse motzarella.org with full
>> headers
>> NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 05:30:47 +0000 (UTC)
>> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579
>> X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
>> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512
>> X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX18bn1g3qGOtFU6+IdBqoVqIGEeiPUY9Hob56ujaOe VklQ==
>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:xLZ/ax4xufOEqt99PVtprWKBPcc=
>> X-Priority: 3
>> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>>
>>
>> "AR" <alanryder aol.com> wrote
>>>
>>> He's always gone out although I know he shouldn't as he's declawed.
>>
>>
>> Asshole.\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>>

Your point? Anyone who allows a declawed cat to go outside roaming is an
asshole.

cybercat
August 13th 09, 11:08 PM
"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
> AR > wrote:
>
>> We have a 16 lb. nuetered American shorthair that's the man of
>> the house. If he meows and I don't let him out he goes and pees
>> on my kitchen rug a few minutes later! He shows his displeasure
>> in peeing on any rug he can find if he doesn't like something.
>> He also pees in the little box, and I'm sure this is spite. I've
>> taken up any rug I can, and have put citronella oil the rest,
>> but no dice. He free feeds and I have replaced his food dish
>> with the soiled rug for a few hours so he would get the idea,
>> brought him over to the soiled rug and yelled at him, put his
>> food dish on top of that rug as I know cats won't eat where they
>> pee, but he just went over to the other side to access the dish.
>
> I suppose this is too late for you

You SUPPOSE, Mark? The post was made in November 2008. It is August 2009.
Back on your meds, boy. Dredging up old posts to which I replied is part of
your OCD behavior, and that always leads you to stalking. Then you get into
trouble, which is why your criminal record is now posted on the web and in
Usenet.

cybercat
August 13th 09, 11:27 PM
"Cheryl" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John Doe" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Longtime regular patently offensive troll,
>> uses the pretense of a love for cats
>> as an excuse to insult others
>>
>>
>> "cybercat" <cyberpurrs yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Path:
>>> news.astraweb.com!border1.newsrouter.astraweb.com! news.glorb.com!news2!news.nonexiste.net!news.nonex iste.net!feeder.erje.net!news.motzarella.org!motza rella.org!news.motzarella.org!not-for-mail
>>> From: "cybercat" <cyberpurrs yahoo.com>
>>> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
>>> Subject: Re: HELP! My cat runs my house!
>>> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 00:30:56 -0500
>>> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
>>> Lines: 9
>>> Message-ID: <ggg2i7$nhs$1 news.motzarella.org>
>>> References: <58f7888e-eba1-4e0e-8ad5-6e4db1ca8bd7
>>> y18g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> <4c5740df-dd04-423e-b370-75021e3cf674
>>> t11g2000yqg.googlegroups.com> <77206108-26b0-4c63-a396-0501d063007e
>>> u14g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>
>>> X-Trace: news.motzarella.org
>>> U2FsdGVkX1/BxmC85xPlw9ZMJ50Wdb3tVBR9dK8n9SI16ZGrD1pLCO6HU/ReRJ/UJTm7qwCR3X64tohtL/qjz6x6bfxLV+rHD5VSdIjUfrRjvlpKQpxCZiRNl1G5IyAB8VrX 61AKU/M=
>>> X-Complaints-To: Please send complaints to abuse motzarella.org with
>>> full headers
>>> NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 05:30:47 +0000 (UTC)
>>> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579
>>> X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
>>> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512
>>> X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX18bn1g3qGOtFU6+IdBqoVqIGEeiPUY9Hob56ujaOe VklQ==
>>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:xLZ/ax4xufOEqt99PVtprWKBPcc=
>>> X-Priority: 3
>>> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>>>
>>>
>>> "AR" <alanryder aol.com> wrote
>>>>
>>>> He's always gone out although I know he shouldn't as he's declawed.
>>>
>>>
>>> Asshole.\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>>>
>
> Your point? Anyone who allows a declawed cat to go outside roaming is an
> asshole.

The point is to creep me out and intimidate me by reposting lost of old
posts of mine in an obsessive, slimy way. So I will stop posting. Instead,
one of Houston's Finest is going to come to is door and have a little talk
with him.

John Doe
August 14th 09, 12:37 AM
"cybercat" <cyberpurrs yahoo.com> wrote:

....

> You SUPPOSE, Mark? The post was made in November 2008. It is
> August 2009.

Anyone can find my posts in the archives regardless of how long
ago the thread was started.

The archives is that thing you refer to when insulting people who
ask allegedly redundant questions here, JudgeMental.

> Back on your meds, boy. Dredging up old posts to which I replied
> is part of your OCD behavior, and that always leads you to
> stalking. Then you get into trouble, which is why your criminal
> record is now posted on the web and in Usenet.

Violating the privacy of innocent people in an attempt to get your
way is like a hostage taker, JudgeMental.



















--
>
>
>
> Path: news.astraweb.com!border5.newsrouter.astraweb.com! npeer02.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!post02.iad.highwinds-media.com!newsfe10.iad.POSTED!bd088a30!not-for-mail
> From: "cybercat" <cyberpurrs yahoo.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> References: <58f7888e-eba1-4e0e-8ad5-6e4db1ca8bd7 y18g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> <00005764$0$2210$c3e8da3 news.astraweb.com>
> Subject: Re: HELP! My cat runs my house!
> Lines: 26
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579
> X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
> Message-ID: <d90hm.96258$8l4.29419 newsfe10.iad>
> X-Complaints-To: abuse teranews.com
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:08:09 UTC
> Organization: TeraNews.com
> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:08:10 -0400
>
>

cybercat
August 14th 09, 03:11 AM
"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
> "cybercat" <cyberpurrs yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> ...
>
>> You SUPPOSE, Mark? The post was made in November 2008. It is
>> August 2009.
>
> Anyone can find my posts in the archives regardless of how long
> ago the thread was started.
>
> The archives is that thing you refer to when insulting people who
> ask allegedly redundant questions here, JudgeMental.
>
>> Back on your meds, boy. Dredging up old posts to which I replied
>> is part of your OCD behavior, and that always leads you to
>> stalking. Then you get into trouble, which is why your criminal
>> record is now posted on the web and in Usenet.
>
> Violating the privacy of innocent people in an attempt to get your
> way is like a hostage taker, JudgeMental.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>>
>>
>>
>> Path:
>> news.astraweb.com!border5.newsrouter.astraweb.com! npeer02.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!post02.iad.highwinds-media.com!newsfe10.iad.POSTED!bd088a30!not-for-mail
>> From: "cybercat" <cyberpurrs yahoo.com>
>> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
>> References: <58f7888e-eba1-4e0e-8ad5-6e4db1ca8bd7
>> y18g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> <00005764$0$2210$c3e8da3 news.astraweb.com>
>> Subject: Re: HELP! My cat runs my house!
>> Lines: 26
>> X-Priority: 3
>> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512
>> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579
>> X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
>> Message-ID: <d90hm.96258$8l4.29419 newsfe10.iad>
>> X-Complaints-To: abuse teranews.com
>> NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:08:09 UTC
>> Organization: TeraNews.com
>> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:08:10 -0400
>>
>>
>
My quoting a public record that your criminal behavior brought about is no
violation of your privacy. Remember that it was exactly this kind of
behavior that led your last target Martin Markoe have your record run. Post
like a normal person, and we're fine. Continue to dredge up old posts that I
replied to and make menacing comments about them and I am fine but you most
decidedly will not be. You're ****ing with the wrong person, little fat man.
I'll have the police at your door tomorrow. I used to live in Houston.