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Angela[_2_]
November 28th 08, 08:13 PM
Matthew suggested I post over here. So here is my story.

After a new kitten arrival my Bengal (aged 8) stopped eating. My vet and I
were pretty convinced it was the kitten causing it because after a few weeks
he got very grumpy around him. Anyway to cut a long story short when his
appetite didn't pick up and he had lost over one pound in weight, we had a
trip back to the vets who did blood tests. I heard yesterday that he has
renal failure. I took a urine specimen in today and I have another
appointment to discuss next steps regarding treatment with my vet on Monday.

She said not to worry about diet with him at the moment, it's far more
important getting him eating so I'm giving chicken and tuna which is doing
the trick, but he's still only eating about one third of what he would
normally eat, but at least his weight has stabilized.

I've been surfing to see what the options are and it seems that drugs are an
option with a renal diet. Sounds fine except he has always been a finicky
eater and despite me trying just about every food on the market he eats only
one brand of dried food and even then only one of the flavours in that food.
Of course he will always eat fresh chicken and tuna for which I am grateful
for at the moment.

I know it is terminal so the question is not if he will die, but when. The
more I think about it the more I would prefer him to have a shorter happier
life eating what he likes than a longer miserable life having constant
battles with him over food. I will happily take the medication if that's
appropriate but I just know the diet is going to bring a lot of stress. I
was pretty horrified to read some people having to force feed their cats, I
could never do that to him. He's like my kid and I don't want him to suffer
just because I want him round just a little bit longer.

If anyone has been through this I would appreciate some thoughts?

Angela

November 29th 08, 02:13 AM
On Nov 28, 3:13*pm, "Angela" > wrote:

> If anyone has been through this I would appreciate some thoughts?
>
> Angela

Angela:

Tough as this may seem, *untreatable* renal failure is a slow,
agonizing death for your cat starting with exhaustion, ending with
tremendous joint-pain.

For a close, but not entirely precise analogy, imagine a person with
gout - now think of your cat that way, only much more so.

Do discuss options with your Vet, but at the same time think of the
cat, not how much you will miss him. From the tone of your post, your
heart is in the right place, I wish you well and hope that there are
some options you have not already explored. If the vet offers hope
with restricted diet and some drugs, read on:

Now, on the positive side - just as no cat has ever starved in a tree,
if your cat starts to feel better, it will eat. That it has become
finicky over the years is more because you let it than because it
actually is so. That written, consider that brand-name cat-food runs
$2.50+/- per pound, and boutique food much more than that. These
prices put various cuts of chicken, beef and lamb, purchased in bulk,
well within reach, and when used with with feline-specific supplements
and fresh roughage (AKA "kitty greens") the actual cost of feeding
your cat will not be excessive - just more trouble on your part. But,
if you eat what he eats (excepting the supplements), even that is
minimized.

We went through it with one of our rescue cats some years ago. He went
through all sorts of complications after being neutered - or so we
thought until the vet found kidney complications - finally his kidneys
just gave out at about 2-1/2. Sadly, his kittens (3) had similar
symptoms - none made it past 5 months - they stopped eating, stopped
peeing - the vet advised us that they were untreatable at that age.
The father outlived them by a year and a half, so we did not make the
connection until he was finally diagnosed with kidney problems.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

November 29th 08, 04:27 PM
On Nov 28, 3:13�pm, "Angela" > wrote:
> Matthew suggested I post over here. �So here is my story.
>
> After a new kitten arrival my Bengal (aged 8) stopped eating. �My vet and I
> were pretty convinced it was the kitten causing it because after a few weeks
> he got very grumpy around him. �Anyway to cut a long story short when his
> appetite didn't pick up and he had lost over one pound in weight, we had a
> trip back to the vets who did blood tests. �I heard yesterday that he has
> renal failure. �I took a urine specimen in today and I have another
> appointment to discuss next steps regarding treatment with my vet on Monday.
>
> She said not to worry about diet with him at the moment, it's far more
> important getting him eating so I'm giving chicken and tuna which is doing
> the trick, but he's still only eating about one third of what he would
> normally eat, but at least his weight has stabilized.
>
> I've been surfing to see what the options are and it seems that drugs are an
> option with a renal diet. �Sounds fine except he has always been a finicky
> eater and despite me trying just about every food on the market he eats only
> one brand of dried food and even then only one of the flavours in that food.
> Of course he will always eat fresh chicken and tuna for which I am grateful
> for at the moment.
>
> I know it is terminal so the question is not if he will die, but when. �The
> more I think about it the more I would prefer him to have a shorter happier
> life eating what he likes than a longer miserable life having constant
> battles with him over food. �I will happily take the medication if that's
> appropriate but I just know the diet is going to bring a lot of stress. �I
> was pretty horrified to read some people having to force feed their cats, I
> could never do that to him. �He's like my kid and I don't want him to suffer
> just because I want him round just a little bit longer.
>
> If anyone has been through this I would appreciate some thoughts?
>
> Angela

I think you should go join the CRF yahoo group. There are people
there with lots of knowledge about kidney disease. My cat was
diagnosed with CRF when he was 13 and lived to be over 20. It wasn't
until the last couple years of his life that I had to do any special
treatments like sub-qs, etc. Get all the facts before you make any
decisions. Good luck, I hope your cat is around for many years.

Phil P.
November 30th 08, 02:02 AM
"Angela" > wrote in message
...
> Matthew suggested I post over here. So here is my story.
>
> After a new kitten arrival my Bengal (aged 8) stopped eating. My vet and
I
> were pretty convinced it was the kitten causing it because after a few
weeks
> he got very grumpy around him. Anyway to cut a long story short when his
> appetite didn't pick up and he had lost over one pound in weight, we had a
> trip back to the vets who did blood tests. I heard yesterday that he has
> renal failure. I took a urine specimen in today and I have another
> appointment to discuss next steps regarding treatment with my vet on
Monday.
>
> She said not to worry about diet with him at the moment, it's far more
> important getting him eating so I'm giving chicken and tuna which is doing
> the trick, but he's still only eating about one third of what he would
> normally eat, but at least his weight has stabilized.
>
> I've been surfing to see what the options are and it seems that drugs are
an
> option with a renal diet. Sounds fine except he has always been a finicky
> eater and despite me trying just about every food on the market he eats
only
> one brand of dried food and even then only one of the flavours in that
food.
> Of course he will always eat fresh chicken and tuna for which I am
grateful
> for at the moment.
>
> I know it is terminal so the question is not if he will die, but when.


Look at the bottom of his paws. If you don't see an expiration date, then
how long he'll live depends a lot on you. My cat was diagnosed with CRF
when she was 18. This past June she turned a happy 23. She's not the only
cat that has lived many years after a diagnosis of CRF, so, keep the faith!


The
> more I think about it the more I would prefer him to have a shorter
happier
> life eating what he likes than a longer miserable life having constant
> battles with him over food. I will happily take the medication if that's
> appropriate but I just know the diet is going to bring a lot of stress. I
> was pretty horrified to read some people having to force feed their cats,
I
> could never do that to him. He's like my kid and I don't want him to
suffer
> just because I want him round just a little bit longer.


Judging from the compassion in your post, I think he may want to be around
you for just a bit longer.:)


>
> If anyone has been through this I would appreciate some thoughts?


Regarding food- Cats are attracted to food by smell more than taste. You can
make any diet smell and taste much more palatable simply by warming it up a
bit. Warmed food is much more aromatic and might entice him to eat a diet he
otherwise wouldn't touch. Be careful to only warm the food to about body
temperature- don't cook it or it will smell and taste worse.

For canned food, try mixing in a little warm water- just enough to make it a
gruel not a soup. Break the loaf down by mashing it with the bottom of a
spoon and stir well. I don't recommend dry food for a cat in CRF (or any
cat)- but if that's all he'll eat- you have no choice. Its very important he
keeps eating. If you must feed him dry food, you can warm that too by
putting 1/4 cup in a small Rubbermaid container and placing the container in
very warm water for a few minutes. You'll smell the difference as soon as
you open the lid. One important note: Try the warming technique with a
kidney-friendly diet *first*. Just as warming will make a kidney-friendly
diet more aromatic and palatable- warming will make a regular cat food even
more appealing so that he won't find the kidney-friendly diet as appealing
when you try to switch him over.

As far as diets, I recommend Hill's Prescription Diet g/d-- not k/d. K/d is
too low in protein for a cat in early-to-midstage CRF. Protein shouldn't be
restricted until his BUN reaches 60-80 mg/dl.

Another good diet for early-to-midstage CRF is Iams Veterinary Formulas
Urinary O - Moderate pH/O/Feline Canned Formula (also available in dry).
This is the diet I'm feeding my cat. The diet produces an alkaline urine
which is much easier on the kidneys.

As far as drugs and supplements, I can't recommend a potassium and Omega-3
fatty acid supplement more highly. These are the two most important things
you can do for your cat- even if he won't eat a kidney-friendly diet.
Omega-3s are renoprotective and together with a potassium supplement has
slowed the progression of CRF in my cat to a crawl. I recommend them very
highly.

I also highly recommend speaking to your vet about Amlodipine-its a calcium
channel blocker that will keep your cat's blood pressure in check. Cats
with CRF are prone to hypertension- even in the early stages. Hypertension
can come on quickly in cats with CRF and result in acute blindness and
further kidney damage. I were you, I would ask your vet to put your cat on
Amlodipine *now*. Even if your cat's blood pressure is presently normal,
Amlodipine won't cause hypotension or any other adverse effects. In fact
you'll probably notice an improvement in his appetite and activity level-
even his personality! If your vet wants more information before
prescribing Amlodipine, give him the following journal references:

Evaluation of the antihypertensive agent amlodipine besylate in normotensive
cats and a cat with systemic hypertension.
Snyder PS
J Vet Intern Med 53:1166-1169, 1994.

Treatment of systemic hypertension in cats with amlodipine besylate.
Henik RA, Snyder PS, Volk LM
JAAHA 33:226-234, 1997.
Best of luck & Keep the faith!

Phil

Angela[_2_]
November 30th 08, 01:27 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...
| Judging from the compassion in your post, I think he may want to be around
| you for just a bit longer.:)
|
|
| >
| > If anyone has been through this I would appreciate some thoughts?
|
|
| Regarding food- Cats are attracted to food by smell more than taste. You
can
| make any diet smell and taste much more palatable simply by warming it up
a
| bit. Warmed food is much more aromatic and might entice him to eat a diet
he
| otherwise wouldn't touch. Be careful to only warm the food to about body
| temperature- don't cook it or it will smell and taste worse.
|
| For canned food, try mixing in a little warm water- just enough to make it
a
| gruel not a soup. Break the loaf down by mashing it with the bottom of a
| spoon and stir well. I don't recommend dry food for a cat in CRF (or any
| cat)- but if that's all he'll eat- you have no choice. Its very important
he
| keeps eating. If you must feed him dry food, you can warm that too by
| putting 1/4 cup in a small Rubbermaid container and placing the container
in
| very warm water for a few minutes. You'll smell the difference as soon as
| you open the lid. One important note: Try the warming technique with a
| kidney-friendly diet *first*. Just as warming will make a kidney-friendly
| diet more aromatic and palatable- warming will make a regular cat food
even
| more appealing so that he won't find the kidney-friendly diet as appealing
| when you try to switch him over.
|
| As far as diets, I recommend Hill's Prescription Diet g/d-- not k/d. K/d
is
| too low in protein for a cat in early-to-midstage CRF. Protein shouldn't
be
| restricted until his BUN reaches 60-80 mg/dl.
|
| Another good diet for early-to-midstage CRF is Iams Veterinary Formulas
| Urinary O - Moderate pH/O/Feline Canned Formula (also available in dry).
| This is the diet I'm feeding my cat. The diet produces an alkaline urine
| which is much easier on the kidneys.
|
| As far as drugs and supplements, I can't recommend a potassium and Omega-3
| fatty acid supplement more highly. These are the two most important
things
| you can do for your cat- even if he won't eat a kidney-friendly diet.
| Omega-3s are renoprotective and together with a potassium supplement has
| slowed the progression of CRF in my cat to a crawl. I recommend them very
| highly.
|
| I also highly recommend speaking to your vet about Amlodipine-its a
calcium
| channel blocker that will keep your cat's blood pressure in check. Cats
| with CRF are prone to hypertension- even in the early stages.
Hypertension
| can come on quickly in cats with CRF and result in acute blindness and
| further kidney damage. I were you, I would ask your vet to put your cat
on
| Amlodipine *now*. Even if your cat's blood pressure is presently normal,
| Amlodipine won't cause hypotension or any other adverse effects. In fact
| you'll probably notice an improvement in his appetite and activity level-
| even his personality! If your vet wants more information before
| prescribing Amlodipine, give him the following journal references:
|
| Evaluation of the antihypertensive agent amlodipine besylate in
normotensive
| cats and a cat with systemic hypertension.
| Snyder PS
| J Vet Intern Med 53:1166-1169, 1994.
|
| Treatment of systemic hypertension in cats with amlodipine besylate.
| Henik RA, Snyder PS, Volk LM
| JAAHA 33:226-234, 1997.
| Best of luck & Keep the faith!
|
| Phil


Thanks Phil that's extremely helpful and made me feel much more positive.
My Vet called me on Saturday, seems like he is concentrating his urine to
some extent though it's far from normal. He has protein in his urine but he
also has blood so she wants to treat him for an infection first and then re
test his urine as the infection may be the cause for the protein. So he's
now on antibiotics.

She is keen just to get him eating again, she really doesn't want to worry
about what he eats at the moment. I have been giving him chicken the last 2
days and he's actually eating much better, but he tends to do this for a
couple of days then he goes off again. Fingers crossed just treating his
urinary tract infect will make him feel a bit better.

Thanks for the positive words.

Angela

jmc
November 30th 08, 02:54 PM
Suddenly, without warning, Phil P. exclaimed (11/29/2008 9:02 PM):
> "Angela" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Matthew suggested I post over here. So here is my story.
>>
>> After a new kitten arrival my Bengal (aged 8) stopped eating. My vet and
> I
>> were pretty convinced it was the kitten causing it because after a few
> weeks
>> he got very grumpy around him. Anyway to cut a long story short when his
>> appetite didn't pick up and he had lost over one pound in weight, we had a
>> trip back to the vets who did blood tests. I heard yesterday that he has
>> renal failure. I took a urine specimen in today and I have another
>> appointment to discuss next steps regarding treatment with my vet on
> Monday.
>> She said not to worry about diet with him at the moment, it's far more
>> important getting him eating so I'm giving chicken and tuna which is doing
>> the trick, but he's still only eating about one third of what he would
>> normally eat, but at least his weight has stabilized.
>>
>> I've been surfing to see what the options are and it seems that drugs are
> an
>> option with a renal diet. Sounds fine except he has always been a finicky
>> eater and despite me trying just about every food on the market he eats
> only
>> one brand of dried food and even then only one of the flavours in that
> food.
>> Of course he will always eat fresh chicken and tuna for which I am
> grateful
>> for at the moment.
>>
>> I know it is terminal so the question is not if he will die, but when.
>
>
> Look at the bottom of his paws. If you don't see an expiration date, then
> how long he'll live depends a lot on you. My cat was diagnosed with CRF
> when she was 18. This past June she turned a happy 23. She's not the only
> cat that has lived many years after a diagnosis of CRF, so, keep the faith!
>
>
> The
>> more I think about it the more I would prefer him to have a shorter
> happier
>> life eating what he likes than a longer miserable life having constant
>> battles with him over food. I will happily take the medication if that's
>> appropriate but I just know the diet is going to bring a lot of stress. I
>> was pretty horrified to read some people having to force feed their cats,
> I
>> could never do that to him. He's like my kid and I don't want him to
> suffer
>> just because I want him round just a little bit longer.
>
>
> Judging from the compassion in your post, I think he may want to be around
> you for just a bit longer.:)
>
>
>> If anyone has been through this I would appreciate some thoughts?
>
>
> Regarding food- Cats are attracted to food by smell more than taste. You can
> make any diet smell and taste much more palatable simply by warming it up a
> bit. Warmed food is much more aromatic and might entice him to eat a diet he
> otherwise wouldn't touch. Be careful to only warm the food to about body
> temperature- don't cook it or it will smell and taste worse.
>
> For canned food, try mixing in a little warm water- just enough to make it a
> gruel not a soup. Break the loaf down by mashing it with the bottom of a
> spoon and stir well. I don't recommend dry food for a cat in CRF (or any
> cat)- but if that's all he'll eat- you have no choice. Its very important he
> keeps eating. If you must feed him dry food, you can warm that too by
> putting 1/4 cup in a small Rubbermaid container and placing the container in
> very warm water for a few minutes. You'll smell the difference as soon as
> you open the lid. One important note: Try the warming technique with a
> kidney-friendly diet *first*. Just as warming will make a kidney-friendly
> diet more aromatic and palatable- warming will make a regular cat food even
> more appealing so that he won't find the kidney-friendly diet as appealing
> when you try to switch him over.
>
> As far as diets, I recommend Hill's Prescription Diet g/d-- not k/d. K/d is
> too low in protein for a cat in early-to-midstage CRF. Protein shouldn't be
> restricted until his BUN reaches 60-80 mg/dl.
>
> Another good diet for early-to-midstage CRF is Iams Veterinary Formulas
> Urinary O - Moderate pH/O/Feline Canned Formula (also available in dry).
> This is the diet I'm feeding my cat. The diet produces an alkaline urine
> which is much easier on the kidneys.
>
> As far as drugs and supplements, I can't recommend a potassium and Omega-3
> fatty acid supplement more highly. These are the two most important things
> you can do for your cat- even if he won't eat a kidney-friendly diet.
> Omega-3s are renoprotective and together with a potassium supplement has
> slowed the progression of CRF in my cat to a crawl. I recommend them very
> highly.
>
> I also highly recommend speaking to your vet about Amlodipine-its a calcium
> channel blocker that will keep your cat's blood pressure in check. Cats
> with CRF are prone to hypertension- even in the early stages. Hypertension
> can come on quickly in cats with CRF and result in acute blindness and
> further kidney damage. I were you, I would ask your vet to put your cat on
> Amlodipine *now*. Even if your cat's blood pressure is presently normal,
> Amlodipine won't cause hypotension or any other adverse effects. In fact
> you'll probably notice an improvement in his appetite and activity level-
> even his personality! If your vet wants more information before
> prescribing Amlodipine, give him the following journal references:
>
> Evaluation of the antihypertensive agent amlodipine besylate in normotensive
> cats and a cat with systemic hypertension.
> Snyder PS
> J Vet Intern Med 53:1166-1169, 1994.
>
> Treatment of systemic hypertension in cats with amlodipine besylate.
> Henik RA, Snyder PS, Volk LM
> JAAHA 33:226-234, 1997.
> Best of luck & Keep the faith!
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>


Angela - Phil offers good advice. My cat also was a "one type of dry
food" cat for years. It has been a long battle, but I have finally
gotten her onto a 100% wet diet, with dry food as treats only.

Mainly the way this worked was I'd make up some wet food, with a little
warm water as Phil suggests . I'd set the food down, and when she'd
sniff and walk away, I'd pick the food back up again after about 20
minutes.

After an hour or so I'd pick it up, and put it away in the fridge when I
went to bed.

When I got up in the morning, first thing, I'd nuke it slightly, put it
out, and take it back up again when I left for work.

I did this for a few days. I did have to supplement with a little dry
food, but carefully not enough to satisfy her appetite.

This worked, mostly. She got a little skinny, so I made the mistake of
feeding her dry in the morning, and wet at night - and she began
ignoring the wet food.

One difference between what I do and what Phil suggests - I don't make
gruel. I just break it down a bit, not mashed, and pour a tablespoon or
so of warm water over it. Meep doesn't like gruel.

Now, since I've discovered one of her less delightful preferences is
old wet food, I put out a can at night, warmed with a little water. In
the morning, if all the food is gone, she gets a handful of dry to tide
her over. If there's still food left (as there usually is), I mix it up
a bit, add a little more warm water, and leave that out for her. I know
it is not recommended, but she hasn't seemed to come to any harm, she
eats more wet than she would before I do this and my cat-food bill is
cut in half.

As for brands to try, since in the beginning it's just important for him
to accept the wet food - try Fancy Feast (my cat prefers stuff with
giblets or liver) or Wellness. Wellness is fairly expensive, she gets
that about half of the time, and a less expensive but still good quality
brand the rest of the time.

Good luck. Meep often gets "slightly" abnormal kidney (and liver)
results when she gets tested, so I'd not be surprised if she becomes a
CRF kitty eventually too :( Hopefully my management of her cystitis
will help stave off worse problems.

jmc

Matthew[_3_]
November 30th 08, 07:37 PM
Now you know why I told you to come over here.

Phil and a few others help literally save a few of my cats with their
advice. They are my heroes

"Angela" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ...
> | Judging from the compassion in your post, I think he may want to be
> around
> | you for just a bit longer.:)
> |
> |
> | >
> | > If anyone has been through this I would appreciate some thoughts?
> |
> |
> | Regarding food- Cats are attracted to food by smell more than taste. You
> can
> | make any diet smell and taste much more palatable simply by warming it
> up
> a
> | bit. Warmed food is much more aromatic and might entice him to eat a
> diet
> he
> | otherwise wouldn't touch. Be careful to only warm the food to about
> body
> | temperature- don't cook it or it will smell and taste worse.
> |
> | For canned food, try mixing in a little warm water- just enough to make
> it
> a
> | gruel not a soup. Break the loaf down by mashing it with the bottom of a
> | spoon and stir well. I don't recommend dry food for a cat in CRF (or any
> | cat)- but if that's all he'll eat- you have no choice. Its very
> important
> he
> | keeps eating. If you must feed him dry food, you can warm that too by
> | putting 1/4 cup in a small Rubbermaid container and placing the
> container
> in
> | very warm water for a few minutes. You'll smell the difference as soon
> as
> | you open the lid. One important note: Try the warming technique with a
> | kidney-friendly diet *first*. Just as warming will make a
> kidney-friendly
> | diet more aromatic and palatable- warming will make a regular cat food
> even
> | more appealing so that he won't find the kidney-friendly diet as
> appealing
> | when you try to switch him over.
> |
> | As far as diets, I recommend Hill's Prescription Diet g/d-- not k/d.
> K/d
> is
> | too low in protein for a cat in early-to-midstage CRF. Protein
> shouldn't
> be
> | restricted until his BUN reaches 60-80 mg/dl.
> |
> | Another good diet for early-to-midstage CRF is Iams Veterinary Formulas
> | Urinary O - Moderate pH/O/Feline Canned Formula (also available in dry).
> | This is the diet I'm feeding my cat. The diet produces an alkaline
> urine
> | which is much easier on the kidneys.
> |
> | As far as drugs and supplements, I can't recommend a potassium and
> Omega-3
> | fatty acid supplement more highly. These are the two most important
> things
> | you can do for your cat- even if he won't eat a kidney-friendly diet.
> | Omega-3s are renoprotective and together with a potassium supplement has
> | slowed the progression of CRF in my cat to a crawl. I recommend them
> very
> | highly.
> |
> | I also highly recommend speaking to your vet about Amlodipine-its a
> calcium
> | channel blocker that will keep your cat's blood pressure in check. Cats
> | with CRF are prone to hypertension- even in the early stages.
> Hypertension
> | can come on quickly in cats with CRF and result in acute blindness and
> | further kidney damage. I were you, I would ask your vet to put your cat
> on
> | Amlodipine *now*. Even if your cat's blood pressure is presently normal,
> | Amlodipine won't cause hypotension or any other adverse effects. In fact
> | you'll probably notice an improvement in his appetite and activity
> level-
> | even his personality! If your vet wants more information before
> | prescribing Amlodipine, give him the following journal references:
> |
> | Evaluation of the antihypertensive agent amlodipine besylate in
> normotensive
> | cats and a cat with systemic hypertension.
> | Snyder PS
> | J Vet Intern Med 53:1166-1169, 1994.
> |
> | Treatment of systemic hypertension in cats with amlodipine besylate.
> | Henik RA, Snyder PS, Volk LM
> | JAAHA 33:226-234, 1997.
> | Best of luck & Keep the faith!
> |
> | Phil
>
>
> Thanks Phil that's extremely helpful and made me feel much more positive.
> My Vet called me on Saturday, seems like he is concentrating his urine to
> some extent though it's far from normal. He has protein in his urine but
> he
> also has blood so she wants to treat him for an infection first and then
> re
> test his urine as the infection may be the cause for the protein. So he's
> now on antibiotics.
>
> She is keen just to get him eating again, she really doesn't want to worry
> about what he eats at the moment. I have been giving him chicken the last
> 2
> days and he's actually eating much better, but he tends to do this for a
> couple of days then he goes off again. Fingers crossed just treating his
> urinary tract infect will make him feel a bit better.
>
> Thanks for the positive words.
>
> Angela
>
>

Phil P.
December 1st 08, 06:13 AM
"Angela" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ...
> | Judging from the compassion in your post, I think he may want to be
around
> | you for just a bit longer.:)
> |
> |
> | >
> | > If anyone has been through this I would appreciate some thoughts?
> |
> |
> | Regarding food- Cats are attracted to food by smell more than taste. You
> can
> | make any diet smell and taste much more palatable simply by warming it
up
> a
> | bit. Warmed food is much more aromatic and might entice him to eat a
diet
> he
> | otherwise wouldn't touch. Be careful to only warm the food to about
body
> | temperature- don't cook it or it will smell and taste worse.
> |
> | For canned food, try mixing in a little warm water- just enough to make
it
> a
> | gruel not a soup. Break the loaf down by mashing it with the bottom of a
> | spoon and stir well. I don't recommend dry food for a cat in CRF (or any
> | cat)- but if that's all he'll eat- you have no choice. Its very
important
> he
> | keeps eating. If you must feed him dry food, you can warm that too by
> | putting 1/4 cup in a small Rubbermaid container and placing the
container
> in
> | very warm water for a few minutes. You'll smell the difference as soon
as
> | you open the lid. One important note: Try the warming technique with a
> | kidney-friendly diet *first*. Just as warming will make a
kidney-friendly
> | diet more aromatic and palatable- warming will make a regular cat food
> even
> | more appealing so that he won't find the kidney-friendly diet as
appealing
> | when you try to switch him over.
> |
> | As far as diets, I recommend Hill's Prescription Diet g/d-- not k/d.
K/d
> is
> | too low in protein for a cat in early-to-midstage CRF. Protein
shouldn't
> be
> | restricted until his BUN reaches 60-80 mg/dl.
> |
> | Another good diet for early-to-midstage CRF is Iams Veterinary Formulas
> | Urinary O - Moderate pH/O/Feline Canned Formula (also available in dry).
> | This is the diet I'm feeding my cat. The diet produces an alkaline
urine
> | which is much easier on the kidneys.
> |
> | As far as drugs and supplements, I can't recommend a potassium and
Omega-3
> | fatty acid supplement more highly. These are the two most important
> things
> | you can do for your cat- even if he won't eat a kidney-friendly diet.
> | Omega-3s are renoprotective and together with a potassium supplement has
> | slowed the progression of CRF in my cat to a crawl. I recommend them
very
> | highly.
> |
> | I also highly recommend speaking to your vet about Amlodipine-its a
> calcium
> | channel blocker that will keep your cat's blood pressure in check. Cats
> | with CRF are prone to hypertension- even in the early stages.
> Hypertension
> | can come on quickly in cats with CRF and result in acute blindness and
> | further kidney damage. I were you, I would ask your vet to put your cat
> on
> | Amlodipine *now*. Even if your cat's blood pressure is presently normal,
> | Amlodipine won't cause hypotension or any other adverse effects. In fact
> | you'll probably notice an improvement in his appetite and activity
level-
> | even his personality! If your vet wants more information before
> | prescribing Amlodipine, give him the following journal references:
> |
> | Evaluation of the antihypertensive agent amlodipine besylate in
> normotensive
> | cats and a cat with systemic hypertension.
> | Snyder PS
> | J Vet Intern Med 53:1166-1169, 1994.
> |
> | Treatment of systemic hypertension in cats with amlodipine besylate.
> | Henik RA, Snyder PS, Volk LM
> | JAAHA 33:226-234, 1997.
> | Best of luck & Keep the faith!
> |
> | Phil
>
>
> Thanks Phil that's extremely helpful and made me feel much more positive.
> My Vet called me on Saturday, seems like he is concentrating his urine to
> some extent though it's far from normal. He has protein in his urine but
he
> also has blood so she wants to treat him for an infection first and then
re
> test his urine as the infection may be the cause for the protein. So he's
> now on antibiotics.
>
> She is keen just to get him eating again, she really doesn't want to worry
> about what he eats at the moment. I have been giving him chicken the last
2
> days and he's actually eating much better, but he tends to do this for a
> couple of days then he goes off again. Fingers crossed just treating his
> urinary tract infect will make him feel a bit better.
>
> Thanks for the positive words.
>
> Angela

I don't think treating a UTI will have a major effect of his appetite. In
fact the antibiotics may actually worsen his appetite. The nitrogenous waste
products-especially urea- from protein catabolism build up in the blood in
cats with CRF- that's what causes the BUN (blood urea nitrogen) to rise.
These waste products can make a cat feel queasy and not want to eat. Kinda
like how we feel when we have an upset stomach. Speak to your vet about
Pepcid AC (regular strength)- about 1/4 of a 10 mg tablet every other day.
Pepcid has helped improve the appetite of a lot of cats with CRF. You might
also want to speak to your vet about adding 1/4 of a 4 mg tablet of
Cyproheptadine (Periactin) every other day- this might help jump-start his
appetite. The 1/4 tablets are so small that you can fit both inside of a #4
gelcap- with plenty of room left for a 1/4 tab of Amlodipine (although
Amlodipine should be given every day). So, you'll only have to give him 1
capsule a day.

I think you should start looking for a new vet- one who has a little more
experience treating cats with CRF, while your cat is still relatively
healthy. A "nice vet" isn't necessarily a "good vet".

Best of luck,

Phil

D. K. Kraft[_2_]
December 1st 08, 04:31 PM
With patience akin to a cat's, , on 11/29/2008 8:27 AM typed:
> On Nov 28, 3:13pm, "Angela" > wrote:
>> Matthew suggested I post over here. So here is my story.
>>
>> After a new kitten arrival my Bengal (aged 8) stopped eating. My vet and I
>> were pretty convinced it was the kitten causing it because after a few weeks
>> he got very grumpy around him. Anyway to cut a long story short when his
>> appetite didn't pick up and he had lost over one pound in weight, we had a
>> trip back to the vets who did blood tests. I heard yesterday that he has
>> renal failure. I took a urine specimen in today and I have another
>> appointment to discuss next steps regarding treatment with my vet on Monday.
>>
>> She said not to worry about diet with him at the moment, it's far more
>> important getting him eating so I'm giving chicken and tuna which is doing
>> the trick, but he's still only eating about one third of what he would
>> normally eat, but at least his weight has stabilized.
>>
>> I've been surfing to see what the options are and it seems that drugs are an
>> option with a renal diet. Sounds fine except he has always been a finicky
>> eater and despite me trying just about every food on the market he eats only
>> one brand of dried food and even then only one of the flavours in that food.
>> Of course he will always eat fresh chicken and tuna for which I am grateful
>> for at the moment.
>>
>> I know it is terminal so the question is not if he will die, but when. The
>> more I think about it the more I would prefer him to have a shorter happier
>> life eating what he likes than a longer miserable life having constant
>> battles with him over food. I will happily take the medication if that's
>> appropriate but I just know the diet is going to bring a lot of stress. I
>> was pretty horrified to read some people having to force feed their cats, I
>> could never do that to him. He's like my kid and I don't want him to suffer
>> just because I want him round just a little bit longer.
>>
>> If anyone has been through this I would appreciate some thoughts?
>>
>> Angela
>>
>
> I think you should go join the CRF yahoo group. There are people
> there with lots of knowledge about kidney disease. My cat was
> diagnosed with CRF when he was 13 and lived to be over 20. It wasn't
> until the last couple years of his life that I had to do any special
> treatments like sub-qs, etc. Get all the facts before you make any
> decisions. Good luck, I hope your cat is around for many years.
>
I second Blkcatgal's recommendation for the Feline CRF Info group at Yahoo!
Groups. Here's a direct link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-crf-info
Additionally, Helen, who moderates the Yahoo group, has an *excellent* info
website here: http://www.felinecrf.org

My own 15 yr-old buddy was recently diagnosed as CRF, and both Helen's website
and group have been invaluable. Josh is receiving great holistic care for his
condition through the Animal Hospital of Lynnwood. I'm fortunate to have such
a fantastic holistic vet in my area with Dr. Sodhi.

Best wishes for you and your Bengal boy. Helen's info and the members of the
CRF group will definitely help you and your vet develop the optimum treatment
plan for your cat.

Purrs --
--
/\ /\ | "Cats are a mysterious kind of folk.
^o o^ D.K. "Cat" Kraft | There is more passing in their minds
->T<- | than we are aware of."
~ Lynnwood, WA |
___oOO___OOo___ | -- Sir Walter Scott (1771-1832)

Angela[_2_]
December 1st 08, 05:05 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...
| I don't think treating a UTI will have a major effect of his appetite. In
| fact the antibiotics may actually worsen his appetite. The nitrogenous
waste
| products-especially urea- from protein catabolism build up in the blood in
| cats with CRF- that's what causes the BUN (blood urea nitrogen) to rise.
| These waste products can make a cat feel queasy and not want to eat.
Kinda
| like how we feel when we have an upset stomach. Speak to your vet about
| Pepcid AC (regular strength)- about 1/4 of a 10 mg tablet every other day.
| Pepcid has helped improve the appetite of a lot of cats with CRF. You
might
| also want to speak to your vet about adding 1/4 of a 4 mg tablet of
| Cyproheptadine (Periactin) every other day- this might help jump-start his
| appetite. The 1/4 tablets are so small that you can fit both inside of a
#4
| gelcap- with plenty of room left for a 1/4 tab of Amlodipine (although
| Amlodipine should be given every day). So, you'll only have to give him 1
| capsule a day.
|
| I think you should start looking for a new vet- one who has a little more
| experience treating cats with CRF, while your cat is still relatively
| healthy. A "nice vet" isn't necessarily a "good vet".
|
| Best of luck,
|
| Phil


She's not suggesting that the UTI will make things better, that's my hopes
but while he has an infection she cannot be sure how much the proteing in
his urine is caused by his kidneys and how much is in fact the infection,
that's why she wants another test when the course of antibiotics is
complete. She wants an accurate picture before deciding on future
management.

Angela

Phil P.
December 2nd 08, 10:15 AM
"Angela" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ...
> | I don't think treating a UTI will have a major effect of his appetite.
In
> | fact the antibiotics may actually worsen his appetite. The nitrogenous
> waste
> | products-especially urea- from protein catabolism build up in the blood
in
> | cats with CRF- that's what causes the BUN (blood urea nitrogen) to rise.
> | These waste products can make a cat feel queasy and not want to eat.
> Kinda
> | like how we feel when we have an upset stomach. Speak to your vet about
> | Pepcid AC (regular strength)- about 1/4 of a 10 mg tablet every other
day.
> | Pepcid has helped improve the appetite of a lot of cats with CRF. You
> might
> | also want to speak to your vet about adding 1/4 of a 4 mg tablet of
> | Cyproheptadine (Periactin) every other day- this might help jump-start
his
> | appetite. The 1/4 tablets are so small that you can fit both inside of
a
> #4
> | gelcap- with plenty of room left for a 1/4 tab of Amlodipine (although
> | Amlodipine should be given every day). So, you'll only have to give him
1
> | capsule a day.
> |
> | I think you should start looking for a new vet- one who has a little
more
> | experience treating cats with CRF, while your cat is still relatively
> | healthy. A "nice vet" isn't necessarily a "good vet".
> |
> | Best of luck,
> |
> | Phil
>
>
> She's not suggesting that the UTI will make things better, that's my hopes
> but while he has an infection she cannot be sure how much the proteing in
> his urine is caused by his kidneys and how much is in fact the infection,
> that's why she wants another test when the course of antibiotics is
> complete. She wants an accurate picture before deciding on future
> management.
>
> Angela


OK- That sounds more reasonable. However, I still think you should at least
discuss a course of Pepcid AC with your vet. I'm sure it will improve your
cat's appetite and make him feel a lot better.

Best of luck,

Phil

Angela[_2_]
December 7th 08, 11:21 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...
| >
| >
| > She's not suggesting that the UTI will make things better, that's my
hopes
| > but while he has an infection she cannot be sure how much the proteing
in
| > his urine is caused by his kidneys and how much is in fact the
infection,
| > that's why she wants another test when the course of antibiotics is
| > complete. She wants an accurate picture before deciding on future
| > management.
| >
| > Angela
|
|
| OK- That sounds more reasonable. However, I still think you should at
least
| discuss a course of Pepcid AC with your vet. I'm sure it will improve
your
| cat's appetite and make him feel a lot better.
|
| Best of luck,
|
| Phil

Well he has finished his course of antibiotics and he is a completely
different cat. He's eating, though his regular food has to be mixed with
chicken to get him interested, but he has put back some of the weight he
lost. He's not completely back to normal, still sleeping a lot, but he's a
lot perkier than he was, even playing with the kitten a little.

I have to try and get another urine specemin from him tomorrow. Hopefully
that will give a better picture.

Angela

Phil P.
December 8th 08, 12:27 PM
"Angela" > wrote in message
om...
>
> Well he has finished his course of antibiotics and he is a completely
> different cat. He's eating, though his regular food has to be mixed with
> chicken to get him interested, but he has put back some of the weight he
> lost. He's not completely back to normal, still sleeping a lot, but he's
a
> lot perkier than he was, even playing with the kitten a little.
>
> I have to try and get another urine specemin from him tomorrow. Hopefully
> that will give a better picture.
>
> Angela

Thanks for the update. I'm glad he's eating and feeling better.
Unfortunately, cats with CRF produce a dilute urine which makes them much
more susceptible to UTIs than cats with a normal USG.

You should still speak to your vet about monitoring his blood pressure.
Nothing speeds up the progression of CRF faster than systemic and/or
intrarenal hypertension. Hypertension can come on very quickly in cats with
CRF. So, you should keep a very close watch on his BP.

You might also want to speak to your vet about a low-dose (2 mEq/day)
potassium supplement. Even if your cat's serum potassium levels are in the
normal range potassium depletion (from tissue) can still be occurring. Cats
with CRF produce urine more rapidly than normal cats. Rapid urine production
promotes potassium excretion- which can also speed up the progression. You
want to keep his serum K+ in the upper half of the normal range.

Best of luck,

Phil