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Eddy[_2_]
December 22nd 08, 04:33 PM
OK, here's a chance for you guys to really rush in and have a go at me!
I expect a lot of abuse . . . but hopefully some people may lessen my
fears.

My two cats are four years old. From the age of 1 month to 12 months I
used to brush their teeth with meat-flavoured toothpaste once a week.
They always hated it having it done and it was stressful for them and
for me. I stopped doing it, reasoning that unlike humans they don't
live anywhere near as long as we normally do, so they don't need good
teeth at age 60.

In the past week I have accidentally come across information which
conflicts with advice I was given by cat-experts four years ago, that
one should always give cats tinned food, because it ensures they get all
the moisture they need, because cats are carnivores, because it stops
them developing urinary tract problems, and because dry food does not
properly clean the teeth, crunching dry food damages their teeth, and
the carbohydrate in dry food makes cats obese.

But now I read that tinned food causes tartar or plaque buildup on the
teeth and dental problems. This has worried me and so today I have got
out the meat-flavoured toothbrush again and brushed my cats' teeth.
What I have found has shocked me. The front teeth are a little cream in
colour compared to what they were four years ago but they are in good
shape with no discernable buildup. The back teeth however have almost
disappeared beneath long rounded curls of build-up. The tips of the
teeth are only just protruding from this long hard "sausage" of deposit.
I scratched at each of these orangey-yellowish rolls and its like
scratching at teeth. It's tough as hell - probably as strong as the
teeth that are buried inside it. I can see that if what's been going on
continues, then these sausage-shaped build-ups along the back teeth will
just get bigger and bigger until before very long they completely
envelope the back teeth.

I feel so guilty. I feel I should have continued with the brushing all
along regardless of the stress to me and the cats.

But, hands up, how many people here routinely brush their cats' teeth?
How long is it since you inspected your cats' teeth?

I think some of you will tell me I should have been giving them cat
biscuits instead of canned food. Well, please bear in mind that that
advice goes against the advice of a lot of cat experts. But please also
bear in mind that everyday I do give my cats biscuits - but as treats
throughout the day. They probably each get about 20 biscuits in the
course of a day. And they have never crunched these biscuits. The
biscuits probably never touch the sides of the their teeth. They go
straight down their throats, they just swallow them. Several years ago
I looked for bigger cat biscuits, but there aren't any which are bigger.
Smaller, yes, but not bigger. My cats just don't like to crunch.

Hopefully along with some of the abuse I will now receive from some of
you, there will be some helpful or comforting advice.

I would also like to know how many people honestly brush their cats'
teeth every day, or even once a week, or once a month. I live in the
countryside and all the farmers round here have two or three cats per
house, all domesticated, and I doubt very much if they are brushing
their pussies' teeth.

Eddy.

December 22nd 08, 05:04 PM
On Dec 22, 10:33*am, Eddy >
wrote:
> OK, here's a chance for you guys to really rush in and have a go at me!
> I expect a lot of abuse . . . but hopefully some people may lessen my
> fears.
>
> My two cats are four years old. *From the age of 1 month to 12 months I
> used to brush their teeth with meat-flavoured toothpaste once a week.
> They always hated it having it done and it was stressful for them and
> for me. *I stopped doing it, reasoning that unlike humans they don't
> live anywhere near as long as we normally do, so they don't need good
> teeth at age 60.
>
> In the past week I have accidentally come across information which
> conflicts with advice I was given by cat-experts four years ago, that
> one should always give cats tinned food, because it ensures they get all
> the moisture they need, because cats are carnivores, because it stops
> them developing urinary tract problems, and because dry food does not
> properly clean the teeth, crunching dry food damages their teeth, and
> the carbohydrate in dry food makes cats obese. *
>
> But now I read that tinned food causes tartar or plaque buildup on the
> teeth and dental problems. *This has worried me and so today I have got
> out the meat-flavoured toothbrush again and brushed my cats' teeth.
> What I have found has shocked me. *The front teeth are a little cream in
> colour compared to what they were four years ago but they are in good
> shape with no discernable buildup. *The back teeth however have almost
> disappeared beneath long rounded curls of build-up. * The tips of the
> teeth are only just protruding from this long hard "sausage" of deposit.
> *I scratched at each of these orangey-yellowish rolls and its like
> scratching at teeth. *It's tough as hell - probably as strong as the
> teeth that are buried inside it. *I can see that if what's been going on
> continues, then these sausage-shaped build-ups along the back teeth will
> just get bigger and bigger until before very long they completely
> envelope the back teeth.
>
> I feel so guilty. *I feel I should have continued with the brushing all
> along regardless of the stress to me and the cats.
>
> But, hands up, how many people here routinely brush their cats' teeth?
> How long is it since you inspected your cats' teeth?
>
> I think some of you will tell me I should have been giving them cat
> biscuits instead of canned food. *Well, please bear in mind that that
> advice goes against the advice of a lot of cat experts. *But please also
> bear in mind that everyday I do give my cats biscuits - but as treats
> throughout the day. *They probably each get about 20 biscuits in the
> course of a day. *And they have never crunched these biscuits. *The
> biscuits probably never touch the sides of the their teeth. *They go
> straight down their throats, they just swallow them. *Several years ago
> I looked for bigger cat biscuits, but there aren't any which are bigger.
> *Smaller, yes, but not bigger. *My cats just don't like to crunch.
>
> Hopefully along with some of the abuse I will now receive from some of
> you, there will be some helpful or comforting advice. *
>
> I would also like to know how many people honestly brush their cats'
> teeth every day, or even once a week, or once a month. *I live in the
> countryside and all the farmers round here have two or three cats per
> house, all domesticated, and I doubt very much if they are brushing
> their pussies' teeth.
>
> Eddy.

Eddie:

A few things:

First, lose the guilt. I have had cats make it into their 20s with
their original teeth, which were never brushed. There are other
factors involved.

a) Cats are obligatory carnivores. They would not eat Corn Gluten Meal
or Wheat Gluten on a bet, even if half-starved in the wild. The only
roughage they get in their natural state is from the stomach contents
of their prey and the occasional browse of sweet greens or mints as
digestives. And that is a few leaves at a time - NOT a steady diet.

b) Cats get almost no sugar or starch - ever - in their natural
state.

c) Cats' natural prey has bones, skin, fur (or feathers or scales),
all of which cleans teeth in passing.

Now, look at the contents of a 'premium' brand commercial wet cat
food:

Water sufficient for processing, meat by-products, beef, chicken, soy
protein concentrate, wheat flour, modified starch, steamed bone meal,
animal digest, guar gum, caramel color, salt, (Vitamins deleted)

And a 'premium' dry food commercial dry food:

Whole ground corn, poultry by-product meal, corn gluten meal, soybean
meal, whole wheat, meat & bone meal, animal fat (preserved with mixed
tocopherols), salmon, chicken, beef, animal digest, salt,

Now, a Vet-formula Dry food:

Chicken By-Product Meal, Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Animal Fat
(preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Powdered Cellulose
(11.1% source of fiber), Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken Liver
Flavor, Soybean Oil,

Vet-formula Wet food:

Water, Beef, Beef By-Product, Pork By-Products, Pork Liver, Wheat
Flour, Corn Starch, Powdered Cellulose, Soybean Oil, Corn Gluten Meal,
Rice Flour, Chicken Liver Flavor, Fish Meal, Calcium Sulfate, Guar
Gum, Locust Bean Gum, Carrageenan, Calcium Carbonate, Brewers Dried
Yeast

Given that ingredients are listed by amount from highest to lowest,
you *think* there is lots of animal stuff in there - um - but - there
are as many as four or five "bulk" ingredients of vegetable origin.
Bets are that the animal content is rather lower than the vegetable
content in total.

Starch and sugar are analogs - starch is processed almost immediately
into sugar during the digestion process - which starts in the mouth,
and ends in the gut.

Animal-sourced materials do not cause tooth-decay. Vegetable-sourced
materials do cause tooth decay. High-starch items are worst of all.

There are dry foods that are formulated to clean teeth. I am not sure
which brands do so these days, but your vet will know right off-hand.
But, a good mix of wet and dry food will help in any case.

Judge by your pet's breath. A healthy cat will have sweet breath that
you wouldn't mind right in your face. Sour breath is the first sign of
gum disease and subsequent tooth decay or loss. And that is something
you can check every day.

We have never brushed our cats' teeth. We have brushed our dogs' teeth
- and they are much more tolerant of the process. But the cats have
never lost teeth and never had bad breath - the dogs, on the other
hand, have had both.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

cybercat
December 22nd 08, 05:15 PM
"Eddy" > wrote in message
...
> OK, here's a chance for you guys to really rush in and have a go at me!
> I expect a lot of abuse . . . but hopefully some people may lessen my
> fears.
>

Eddy--canned food is best for your cat's overall health. Feed canned and
take your cat to the vet for a dental cleaning.

kraut
December 22nd 08, 05:15 PM
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:33:19 GMT, Eddy
> wrote:

>OK, here's a chance for you guys to really rush in and have a go at me!
>I expect a lot of abuse . . . but hopefully some people may lessen my
>fears.
>
>My two cats are four years old. From the age of 1 month to 12 months I
>used to brush their teeth with meat-flavoured toothpaste once a week.
>They always hated it having it done and it was stressful for them and
>for me. I stopped doing it, reasoning that unlike humans they don't
>live anywhere near as long as we normally do, so they don't need good
>teeth at age 60.
>
>In the past week I have accidentally come across information which
>conflicts with advice I was given by cat-experts four years ago, that
>one should always give cats tinned food, because it ensures they get all
>the moisture they need, because cats are carnivores, because it stops
>them developing urinary tract problems, and because dry food does not
>properly clean the teeth, crunching dry food damages their teeth, and
>the carbohydrate in dry food makes cats obese.
>
>But now I read that tinned food causes tartar or plaque buildup on the
>teeth and dental problems. This has worried me and so today I have got
>out the meat-flavoured toothbrush again and brushed my cats' teeth.
>What I have found has shocked me. The front teeth are a little cream in
>colour compared to what they were four years ago but they are in good
>shape with no discernable buildup. The back teeth however have almost
>disappeared beneath long rounded curls of build-up. The tips of the
>teeth are only just protruding from this long hard "sausage" of deposit.
> I scratched at each of these orangey-yellowish rolls and its like
>scratching at teeth. It's tough as hell - probably as strong as the
>teeth that are buried inside it. I can see that if what's been going on
>continues, then these sausage-shaped build-ups along the back teeth will
>just get bigger and bigger until before very long they completely
>envelope the back teeth.
>
>I feel so guilty. I feel I should have continued with the brushing all
>along regardless of the stress to me and the cats.
>
>But, hands up, how many people here routinely brush their cats' teeth?
>How long is it since you inspected your cats' teeth?
>
>I think some of you will tell me I should have been giving them cat
>biscuits instead of canned food. Well, please bear in mind that that
>advice goes against the advice of a lot of cat experts. But please also
>bear in mind that everyday I do give my cats biscuits - but as treats
>throughout the day. They probably each get about 20 biscuits in the
>course of a day. And they have never crunched these biscuits. The
>biscuits probably never touch the sides of the their teeth. They go
>straight down their throats, they just swallow them. Several years ago
>I looked for bigger cat biscuits, but there aren't any which are bigger.
> Smaller, yes, but not bigger. My cats just don't like to crunch.
>
>Hopefully along with some of the abuse I will now receive from some of
>you, there will be some helpful or comforting advice.
>
>I would also like to know how many people honestly brush their cats'
>teeth every day, or even once a week, or once a month. I live in the
>countryside and all the farmers round here have two or three cats per
>house, all domesticated, and I doubt very much if they are brushing
>their pussies' teeth.
>
>Eddy.


No where in all the above do I see a mention of having them seen or
their teeth cleaned by a vet.

They may not live as long as people but they still need their teeth
taken care of and cleaned preferraly on a yearly basis like people.

You go to a dentist for regular checkups don't you and cleaning??
Their teeth are no less important to them!!!

December 22nd 08, 05:32 PM
On Dec 22, 11:15*am, kraut >
wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:33:19 GMT, Eddy
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >OK, here's a chance for you guys to really rush in and have a go at me!
> >I expect a lot of abuse . . . but hopefully some people may lessen my
> >fears.
>
> >My two cats are four years old. *From the age of 1 month to 12 months I
> >used to brush their teeth with meat-flavoured toothpaste once a week.
> >They always hated it having it done and it was stressful for them and
> >for me. *I stopped doing it, reasoning that unlike humans they don't
> >live anywhere near as long as we normally do, so they don't need good
> >teeth at age 60.
>
> >In the past week I have accidentally come across information which
> >conflicts with advice I was given by cat-experts four years ago, that
> >one should always give cats tinned food, because it ensures they get all
> >the moisture they need, because cats are carnivores, because it stops
> >them developing urinary tract problems, and because dry food does not
> >properly clean the teeth, crunching dry food damages their teeth, and
> >the carbohydrate in dry food makes cats obese. *
>
> >But now I read that tinned food causes tartar or plaque buildup on the
> >teeth and dental problems. *This has worried me and so today I have got
> >out the meat-flavoured toothbrush again and brushed my cats' teeth.
> >What I have found has shocked me. *The front teeth are a little cream in
> >colour compared to what they were four years ago but they are in good
> >shape with no discernable buildup. *The back teeth however have almost
> >disappeared beneath long rounded curls of build-up. * The tips of the
> >teeth are only just protruding from this long hard "sausage" of deposit.
> > I scratched at each of these orangey-yellowish rolls and its like
> >scratching at teeth. *It's tough as hell - probably as strong as the
> >teeth that are buried inside it. *I can see that if what's been going on
> >continues, then these sausage-shaped build-ups along the back teeth will
> >just get bigger and bigger until before very long they completely
> >envelope the back teeth.
>
> >I feel so guilty. *I feel I should have continued with the brushing all
> >along regardless of the stress to me and the cats.
>
> >But, hands up, how many people here routinely brush their cats' teeth?
> >How long is it since you inspected your cats' teeth?
>
> >I think some of you will tell me I should have been giving them cat
> >biscuits instead of canned food. *Well, please bear in mind that that
> >advice goes against the advice of a lot of cat experts. *But please also
> >bear in mind that everyday I do give my cats biscuits - but as treats
> >throughout the day. *They probably each get about 20 biscuits in the
> >course of a day. *And they have never crunched these biscuits. *The
> >biscuits probably never touch the sides of the their teeth. *They go
> >straight down their throats, they just swallow them. *Several years ago
> >I looked for bigger cat biscuits, but there aren't any which are bigger.
> > Smaller, yes, but not bigger. *My cats just don't like to crunch.
>
> >Hopefully along with some of the abuse I will now receive from some of
> >you, there will be some helpful or comforting advice. *
>
> >I would also like to know how many people honestly brush their cats'
> >teeth every day, or even once a week, or once a month. *I live in the
> >countryside and all the farmers round here have two or three cats per
> >house, all domesticated, and I doubt very much if they are brushing
> >their pussies' teeth.
>
> >Eddy.
>
> No where in all the above do I see a mention of having them seen or
> their teeth cleaned by a vet.
>
> They may not live as long as people but they still need their teeth
> taken care of and cleaned preferraly on a yearly basis like people.
>
> You go to a dentist for regular checkups don't you and cleaning??
> Their teeth are no less important to them!!!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Both you and Cyber need to understand that most vets will tranquilize
a cat for tooth cleaning. This is, at least, traumatic for the cat and
sometimes quite risky depending on their age and overall health -
keeping in mind that it is senior cats that need this service the
most.

So, the goal is to keep the teeth healthy to reduce or eliminate the
need for Veterinary intervention if at all possible. Monitor their
breath. Do check their teeth as often as you can and they will
tolerate. Modify their diet as needed to be as close to a "wild" diet
as practical with the occasional use of dental-specific treats and
properly designed dry food for tartar control. Naturally, keep them
away from sugars, starches and similar foods.

At the first sign of bad breath or red or inflamed gums, have the
teeth checked by a vet. Even without such signs, have them checked at
your regular visits - ours does as the very first thing. And make sure
if you are contemplating tranquilization that the vet does CBC &
Electrolyte tests first - cheap if done in-house and will help gauge
the animal's response to the drugs.

What you do yourself at home is palliative at best. Not to suggest
that you should not do it. But you will not see what a vet sees.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Eddy[_2_]
December 23rd 08, 02:26 PM
cybercat wrote:
> Eddy--canned food is best for your cat's overall health. Feed canned and
> take your cat to the vet for a dental cleaning.

Thanks, Cybercat. Our two cats are certainly extremely healthy, very
fit, very athletic, and healthily slim. There's good toned muscle in
there. So the canned diet with biscuits only as a treat has proven
itself good generally - except that owing to my not regularly brushing
the teeth we now have this horrendous-looking plaque buildup.

Am I right in presuming you take your cat(s) to the vet for a dental
cleaning instead of brushing their teeth daily yourself? I can
appreciate that it saves daily stress. How often do you have this done?

I know that the only way this massive buildup of plaque is going to be
removed is by a vet with the cats under sedation. I am sure that they
can do that professionally. What I dread is the trip to the vet. We
are about 12 miles from the nearest vet, up and down steep hills, many
gear changes, roaring of engine: my cats hate it. The last time they
were in a car was when we moved here. One of them yowled desperately
for the entire hour and a half of the journey. And the other was so
distraught it lost all control of its bowels and let it all out. So not
looking forward now to the first dental appointment!

Eddy.

Eddy[_2_]
December 23rd 08, 02:30 PM
wrote:
> Both you and Cyber need to understand that most vets will tranquilize
> a cat for tooth cleaning. This is, at least, traumatic for the cat and
> sometimes quite risky depending on their age and overall health -
> keeping in mind that it is senior cats that need this service the
> most.
>
> So, the goal is to keep the teeth healthy to reduce or eliminate the
> need for Veterinary intervention if at all possible. Monitor their
> breath. Do check their teeth as often as you can and they will
> tolerate. Modify their diet as needed to be as close to a "wild" diet
> as practical with the occasional use of dental-specific treats and
> properly designed dry food for tartar control. Naturally, keep them
> away from sugars, starches and similar foods.
>
> At the first sign of bad breath or red or inflamed gums, have the
> teeth checked by a vet. Even without such signs, have them checked at
> your regular visits - ours does as the very first thing. And make sure
> if you are contemplating tranquilization that the vet does CBC &
> Electrolyte tests first - cheap if done in-house and will help gauge
> the animal's response to the drugs.
>
> What you do yourself at home is palliative at best. Not to suggest
> that you should not do it. But you will not see what a vet sees.

Peter, yes, I am wary of the cats having to be sedated - and they WILL
need to be sedated, I am sure, to remove the severe buildup which has
occurred.

I agree that the goal should be to keep the teeth in good condition at
home and obviate the need for the traumatic experience of receiving
dental treatment at the vet.

Eddy.

Eddy[_2_]
December 23rd 08, 02:36 PM
wrote:
> Eddie:
>
> A few things:
>
> First, lose the guilt. I have had cats make it into their 20s with
> their original teeth, which were never brushed. There are other
> factors involved.
>
> a) Cats are obligatory carnivores. They would not eat Corn Gluten Meal
> or Wheat Gluten on a bet, even if half-starved in the wild. The only
> roughage they get in their natural state is from the stomach contents
> of their prey and the occasional browse of sweet greens or mints as
> digestives. And that is a few leaves at a time - NOT a steady diet.
>
> b) Cats get almost no sugar or starch - ever - in their natural
> state.
>
> c) Cats' natural prey has bones, skin, fur (or feathers or scales),
> all of which cleans teeth in passing.
>
> Now, look at the contents of a 'premium' brand commercial wet cat
> food:
>
> Water sufficient for processing, meat by-products, beef, chicken, soy
> protein concentrate, wheat flour, modified starch, steamed bone meal,
> animal digest, guar gum, caramel color, salt, (Vitamins deleted)
>
> And a 'premium' dry food commercial dry food:
>
> Whole ground corn, poultry by-product meal, corn gluten meal, soybean
> meal, whole wheat, meat & bone meal, animal fat (preserved with mixed
> tocopherols), salmon, chicken, beef, animal digest, salt,
>
> Now, a Vet-formula Dry food:
>
> Chicken By-Product Meal, Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Animal Fat
> (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Powdered Cellulose
> (11.1% source of fiber), Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken Liver
> Flavor, Soybean Oil,
>
> Vet-formula Wet food:
>
> Water, Beef, Beef By-Product, Pork By-Products, Pork Liver, Wheat
> Flour, Corn Starch, Powdered Cellulose, Soybean Oil, Corn Gluten Meal,
> Rice Flour, Chicken Liver Flavor, Fish Meal, Calcium Sulfate, Guar
> Gum, Locust Bean Gum, Carrageenan, Calcium Carbonate, Brewers Dried
> Yeast
>
> Given that ingredients are listed by amount from highest to lowest,
> you *think* there is lots of animal stuff in there - um - but - there
> are as many as four or five "bulk" ingredients of vegetable origin.
> Bets are that the animal content is rather lower than the vegetable
> content in total.
>
> Starch and sugar are analogs - starch is processed almost immediately
> into sugar during the digestion process - which starts in the mouth,
> and ends in the gut.
>
> Animal-sourced materials do not cause tooth-decay. Vegetable-sourced
> materials do cause tooth decay. High-starch items are worst of all.
>
> There are dry foods that are formulated to clean teeth. I am not sure
> which brands do so these days, but your vet will know right off-hand.
> But, a good mix of wet and dry food will help in any case.
>
> Judge by your pet's breath. A healthy cat will have sweet breath that
> you wouldn't mind right in your face. Sour breath is the first sign of
> gum disease and subsequent tooth decay or loss. And that is something
> you can check every day.
>
> We have never brushed our cats' teeth. We have brushed our dogs' teeth
> - and they are much more tolerant of the process. But the cats have
> never lost teeth and never had bad breath - the dogs, on the other
> hand, have had both.

Peter, thanks for all of the above. It is all very useful.

It sounds from what you say that it is all down to diet. I am wondering
if the brand of cat food that our cats adore is to blame. I think there
is going to have to be a visit to the vet for each cat, for either a
good scraping or removal of the plaque by sonar (both under sedation).
I will ask the vet for advice as to how best feed them to preclude such
a buildup happening again, but there do seem to be so many different
opinions as to what diet is best. I know I CAN brush my cats' teeth, so
maybe once their teeth have been rid of the buildup, I need to just
continue with the diet they are currently on and exercise a bit more
discipline myself with regard to daily brushing. It only takes about 20
minutes.

Thanks.

Eddy.

cybercat
December 23rd 08, 06:08 PM
"Eddy" > wrote in message
...
> cybercat wrote:
>> Eddy--canned food is best for your cat's overall health. Feed canned and
>> take your cat to the vet for a dental cleaning.
>
> Thanks, Cybercat. Our two cats are certainly extremely healthy, very
> fit, very athletic, and healthily slim. There's good toned muscle in
> there. So the canned diet with biscuits only as a treat has proven
> itself good generally - except that owing to my not regularly brushing
> the teeth we now have this horrendous-looking plaque buildup.

Don't beat yourself up over this! I can tell you are a fine cat dad. ;) Many
cats will not allow brushing, and it is really hard to do so effectively
while they are awake. The vet puts them out and does it right.

>
> Am I right in presuming you take your cat(s) to the vet for a dental
> cleaning instead of brushing their teeth daily yourself? I can
> appreciate that it saves daily stress. How often do you have this done?

I am not sure what is recommended. I have been reticent about it in the
past, because I was not sure about putting our cats under anesthesia for
this reason, as some of them do not come out of anesthesia. But after being
assured by people here (Phil, I believe) and my vet that a anesthesia is
safer these days, I will finally have my cats' teeth done after the first of
the year. Like yours, they have plaque build-up as they have never been.


>
> I know that the only way this massive buildup of plaque is going to be
> removed is by a vet with the cats under sedation. I am sure that they
> can do that professionally. What I dread is the trip to the vet. We
> are about 12 miles from the nearest vet, up and down steep hills, many
> gear changes, roaring of engine: my cats hate it. The last time they
> were in a car was when we moved here. One of them yowled desperately
> for the entire hour and a half of the journey. And the other was so
> distraught it lost all control of its bowels and let it all out. So not
> looking forward now to the first dental appointment!
>

Aww, that's a shame. It is stressful enough just to take them a few miles to
the vet, for me. But it will be worth it. You know it is the same with cats
as with people, bacteria in the mouth can enter the blood stream if teeth
are neglected. You are doing the right thing. Talk to your vet.

LauraM[_2_]
December 23rd 08, 06:44 PM
On Dec 23, 5:30*am, Eddy >
wrote:
> wrote:
> > Both you and Cyber need to understand that most vets will tranquilize
> > a cat for tooth cleaning. This is, at least, traumatic for the cat and
> > sometimes quite risky depending on their age and overall health -
> > keeping in mind that it is senior cats that need this service the
> > most.
>
> > So, the goal is to keep the teeth healthy to reduce or eliminate the
> > need for Veterinary intervention if at all possible. Monitor their
> > breath. Do check their teeth as often as you can and they will
> > tolerate. Modify their diet as needed to be as close to a "wild" diet
> > as practical with the occasional use of dental-specific treats and
> > properly designed dry food for tartar control. Naturally, keep them
> > away from sugars, starches and similar foods.
>
> > At the first sign of bad breath or red or inflamed gums, have the
> > teeth checked by a vet. Even without such signs, have them checked at
> > your regular visits - ours does as the very first thing. And make sure
> > if you are contemplating tranquilization that the vet does CBC &
> > Electrolyte tests first - cheap if done in-house and will help gauge
> > the animal's response to the drugs.
>
> > What you do yourself at home is palliative at best. Not to suggest
> > that you should not do it. But you will not see what a vet sees.
>
> Peter, yes, I am wary of the cats having to be sedated - and they WILL
> need to be sedated, I am sure, to remove the severe buildup which has
> occurred. *
>
> I agree that the goal should be to keep the teeth in good condition at
> home and obviate the need for the traumatic experience of receiving
> dental treatment at the vet.
>
> Eddy.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi Eddy,

I just had my cat's teeth cleaned at the vet's. I do brush my cat's
teeth with his turkey flavored toothpaste, but it just doesn't seem to
be enough. Just like human's brushing, we still need our teeth
professionally cleaned. BUT, I will say that it's hideously
expensive. At least in my area. It was $450. That included a bag of
TD dry food (for teeth issues) a toothbrush, toothpaste, and a kit of
Oravet.

Oravet is something you periodically put on the teeth, after they've
been cleaned. it's supposed to help the teeth resist plaque build
up. I haven't had any experience with it since I just got it, but I'm
going to give it a try. It's an opaque like ointment you put on with
q-tips. Fortunately my cat will let me do anything to him without a
struggle.

Good luck!

Eddy[_2_]
December 24th 08, 09:25 PM
LauraM wrote:
> I just had my cat's teeth cleaned at the vet's. I do brush my cat's
> teeth with his turkey flavored toothpaste, but it just doesn't seem to
> be enough. Just like human's brushing, we still need our teeth
> professionally cleaned. BUT, I will say that it's hideously
> expensive. At least in my area. It was $450. That included a bag of
> TD dry food (for teeth issues) a toothbrush, toothpaste, and a kit of
> Oravet.
>
> Oravet is something you periodically put on the teeth, after they've
> been cleaned. it's supposed to help the teeth resist plaque build
> up. I haven't had any experience with it since I just got it, but I'm
> going to give it a try. It's an opaque like ointment you put on with
> q-tips. Fortunately my cat will let me do anything to him without a
> struggle.
>
> Good luck!

Thanks for all of the above, Laura. $450! Phew! With things as they
are at the moment, that's going to be quite a blow. I reckon the charge
in this neck of the woods won't be much different. And no doubt
there'll be a pre-operative consultation beforehand.

The Oravet sounds very interesting. I swear if there is anything that I
can simply rub on my cats' teeth that will stop horrendous plaque
build-up, I will use it. Like your cat, mine will allow me to brush
their teeth - with lots of little breaks for us both to let the stress
go!

Will try to take a photo of my cats' teeth so you can see what has
happened. I woke up in the middle of last night thinking about it. The
cat with the worst problem spent the whole night sleeping in my arms,
adoring me as usual, and boy did I feel guilty!

Festive Greetings!

Eddy.

Eddy[_2_]
December 24th 08, 09:27 PM
cybercat wrote:
> Don't beat yourself up over this! I can tell you are a fine cat dad. ;) Many
> cats will not allow brushing, and it is really hard to do so effectively
> while they are awake. The vet puts them out and does it right.

Thanks, Cybercat. Well, at least I know the cats will let me attend to
their teeth once all that rock has been removed.

> I am not sure what is recommended. I have been reticent about it in the
> past, because I was not sure about putting our cats under anesthesia for
> this reason, as some of them do not come out of anesthesia. But after being
> assured by people here (Phil, I believe) and my vet that a anesthesia is
> safer these days, I will finally have my cats' teeth done after the first of
> the year. Like yours, they have plaque build-up as they have never been.

Glad to hear that anaesthesia is safer these days.

> Aww, that's a shame. It is stressful enough just to take them a few miles to
> the vet, for me. But it will be worth it. You know it is the same with cats
> as with people, bacteria in the mouth can enter the blood stream if teeth
> are neglected. You are doing the right thing. Talk to your vet.

I guess this whole thing has been a lesson I needed to learn.

Festive greetings.

Eddy.

jimmy
December 26th 08, 01:53 AM
On Dec 22, 11:33*am, Eddy >
wrote:
> OK, here's a chance for you guys to really rush in and have a go at me!
> I expect a lot of abuse . . . but hopefully some people may lessen my
> fears.
>
> My two cats are four years old. *From the age of 1 month to 12 months I
> used to brush their teeth with meat-flavoured toothpaste once a week.
> They always hated it having it done and it was stressful for them and
> for me. *I stopped doing it, reasoning that unlike humans they don't
> live anywhere near as long as we normally do, so they don't need good
> teeth at age 60.
>
> In the past week I have accidentally come across information which
> conflicts with advice I was given by cat-experts four years ago, that
> one should always give cats tinned food, because it ensures they get all
> the moisture they need, because cats are carnivores, because it stops
> them developing urinary tract problems, and because dry food does not
> properly clean the teeth, crunching dry food damages their teeth, and
> the carbohydrate in dry food makes cats obese. *
>
> But now I read that tinned food causes tartar or plaque buildup on the
> teeth and dental problems. *This has worried me and so today I have got
> out the meat-flavoured toothbrush again and brushed my cats' teeth.
> What I have found has shocked me. *The front teeth are a little cream in
> colour compared to what they were four years ago but they are in good
> shape with no discernable buildup. *The back teeth however have almost
> disappeared beneath long rounded curls of build-up. * The tips of the
> teeth are only just protruding from this long hard "sausage" of deposit.
> *I scratched at each of these orangey-yellowish rolls and its like
> scratching at teeth. *It's tough as hell - probably as strong as the
> teeth that are buried inside it. *I can see that if what's been going on
> continues, then these sausage-shaped build-ups along the back teeth will
> just get bigger and bigger until before very long they completely
> envelope the back teeth.
>
> I feel so guilty. *I feel I should have continued with the brushing all
> along regardless of the stress to me and the cats.
>
> But, hands up, how many people here routinely brush their cats' teeth?
> How long is it since you inspected your cats' teeth?
>
> I think some of you will tell me I should have been giving them cat
> biscuits instead of canned food. *Well, please bear in mind that that
> advice goes against the advice of a lot of cat experts. *But please also
> bear in mind that everyday I do give my cats biscuits - but as treats
> throughout the day. *They probably each get about 20 biscuits in the
> course of a day. *And they have never crunched these biscuits. *The
> biscuits probably never touch the sides of the their teeth. *They go
> straight down their throats, they just swallow them. *Several years ago
> I looked for bigger cat biscuits, but there aren't any which are bigger.
> *Smaller, yes, but not bigger. *My cats just don't like to crunch.
>
> Hopefully along with some of the abuse I will now receive from some of
> you, there will be some helpful or comforting advice. *
>
> I would also like to know how many people honestly brush their cats'
> teeth every day, or even once a week, or once a month. *I live in the
> countryside and all the farmers round here have two or three cats per
> house, all domesticated, and I doubt very much if they are brushing
> their pussies' teeth.
>
> Eddy.

Hey Eddie !
I live in Venezuela, in an apartment with 6 happy cats.
I have never brushed my catīs teeth, they eat Cat Chow all day and get
a canned tuna-in-water treat
every morning. Very cool and happy, and the vet has found no problem.
My older cat had really bad breath and one day I found he had a bottom
incisor sticking out and had
to be operated and they cleaned his teeth... now he smells like roses.
Check with the Vet about the plaque and have him clean their teeth. I
imagine you only have to do this
once every 5 years or so, and it is WAY cooler than you brushing their
teeth dayly, right ?
Cheers y FELIZ NAVIDAD !

Eddy[_2_]
December 26th 08, 08:31 PM
jimmy wrote:
> Hey Eddie !
> I live in Venezuela, in an apartment with 6 happy cats.
> I have never brushed my catīs teeth, they eat Cat Chow all day and get
> a canned tuna-in-water treat
> every morning. Very cool and happy, and the vet has found no problem.
> My older cat had really bad breath and one day I found he had a bottom
> incisor sticking out and had
> to be operated and they cleaned his teeth... now he smells like roses.
> Check with the Vet about the plaque and have him clean their teeth. I
> imagine you only have to do this
> once every 5 years or so, and it is WAY cooler than you brushing their
> teeth dayly, right ?
> Cheers y FELIZ NAVIDAD !

Thanks, Jimmy.

SIX cats & no general problems. This "Cat Chow" sounds interesting.
Must look it up.

Happy Holidays Season to you too.

Eddy.

AZ Nomad[_2_]
December 27th 08, 02:30 AM
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:31:07 GMT, Eddy > wrote:
>jimmy wrote:
>> Hey Eddie !
>> I live in Venezuela, in an apartment with 6 happy cats.
>> I have never brushed my catīs teeth, they eat Cat Chow all day and get
>> a canned tuna-in-water treat
>> every morning. Very cool and happy, and the vet has found no problem.
>> My older cat had really bad breath and one day I found he had a bottom
>> incisor sticking out and had
>> to be operated and they cleaned his teeth... now he smells like roses.
>> Check with the Vet about the plaque and have him clean their teeth. I
>> imagine you only have to do this
>> once every 5 years or so, and it is WAY cooler than you brushing their
>> teeth dayly, right ?
>> Cheers y FELIZ NAVIDAD !

>Thanks, Jimmy.

>SIX cats & no general problems. This "Cat Chow" sounds interesting.
>Must look it up.

Purina makes it and it is basically ground bone, food coloring, ash,
and animal waste products.

Eddy[_2_]
December 27th 08, 01:28 PM
AZ Nomad wrote:
> >SIX cats & no general problems. This "Cat Chow" sounds interesting.
> >Must look it up.
>
> Purina makes it and it is basically ground bone, food coloring, ash,
> and animal waste products.

Hmmm. Doesn't SOUND very nutricious. Can cats truly live healthily on
ground bone and ash. I don't think so.

Eddy.

AZ Nomad[_2_]
December 28th 08, 02:06 AM
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:28:46 GMT, Eddy > wrote:
>AZ Nomad wrote:
>> >SIX cats & no general problems. This "Cat Chow" sounds interesting.
>> >Must look it up.
>>
>> Purina makes it and it is basically ground bone, food coloring, ash,
>> and animal waste products.

>Hmmm. Doesn't SOUND very nutricious. Can cats truly live healthily on
>ground bone and ash. I don't think so.

>Eddy.

Don't forget the yummy animal waste products.