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dgk
March 16th 09, 12:46 PM
I often let the cats out into the (fenced in) backyard when there is
still food in the birdfeeder. Most of the time the birds are smart
enough to stay away until the cats go back inside, but since the cats
usually just lie around and watch sometimes the birds get bold.

Once or twice a year the cats get something. Sometimes a bird,
sometimes a mouse. Yesterday, out of maybe 40 sparrows and 15 pigeons,
Espy kills the male cardinal. I saw from the window that he had
something red in his mouth and was hoping that either it wasn't a bird
or maybe I could rescue it if it was. But, no, too late.

Later that day the female cardinal was all over the yard, flitting
from tree to tree. I really feel badly about it. I know the cats are
killers and sometimes birds get killed, but why the cardinal?

I thought cats couldn't even see color, or at least not red. I have
noticed that cardinals stick around longer towards dusk than other
birds so perhaps it was a bit too bold about being on the ground near
the bird feeder.

Espy, next time, take out a pigeon.

cybercat
March 16th 09, 03:12 PM
"dgk" > wrote

>I know the cats are
> killers and sometimes birds get killed, but why the cardinal?
>
It was a slow cardinal.

Linda Boucher
March 16th 09, 07:05 PM
you should put a bell around there neck so the birds will
know there coming..when a birds mate get killed it takes them a long time
to get over it...we had a lone dove around for over a year when she lost
her mate..it even harder for cardinal because you only see 2 of them
around
Linda
> Espy kills the male cardinal. I saw from the window that he had
> something red in his mouth

dgk
March 16th 09, 07:28 PM
On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:05:15 -0300, "Linda Boucher"
> wrote:

>you should put a bell around there neck so the birds will
>know there coming..when a birds mate get killed it takes them a long time
>to get over it...we had a lone dove around for over a year when she lost
>her mate..it even harder for cardinal because you only see 2 of them
>around
>Linda
>> Espy kills the male cardinal. I saw from the window that he had
>> something red in his mouth
>

Actually there have been a fairly large number of cardinals this year.
Still, I know that one was grieving. Probably quite a few die around
my house because there are a number of strays around. But this one I
saw. I guess the aparrows grieve as well but I can't tell them apart
so I wouldn't know.

I really don't think the bell is very practical. One came with the
collars and was annoying enough (three cats) for me to remove it.
Their collars stay on all the time because their name tag and RF
tracker is on them. So, in the house it just makes too much noise. To
save one cardinal every six years is just too much noise pollution. I
figure lots get fat on my bird seed so the +/- ratio is still way up
there.

I've watched Espy's hunting technique. He hides under the Azalea which
is about 6 feet from the bird feeder. In winter there are no leaves
but it seems to keep him well enough concealed from the birds. Then he
just lunges out at any bird hanging out on the ground. I really doubt
the slight ring of that bell would do any good at all. By the time any
bird reacts to that he's already there. The surprising thing is that
so few birds die. Between Espy, Nipsy, and Marlo, only one or two die
per year. Even overweight Nipsy and Marlo can move fast.

It's really just in the winter that this is a problem. In another week
or so I'll stop the bird feeding and the mass pile-up of birds will be
over. Then they can just eat my grass seed like normal.

cybercat
March 16th 09, 07:48 PM
"dgk" > wrote
> I really don't think the bell is very practical. One came with the
> collars and was annoying enough (three cats) for me to remove it.
> Their collars stay on all the time because their name tag and RF
> tracker is on them. So, in the house it just makes too much noise. To
> save one cardinal every six years is just too much noise pollution. I
> figure lots get fat on my bird seed so the +/- ratio is still way up
> there.
>
> I've watched Espy's hunting technique. He hides under the Azalea which
> is about 6 feet from the bird feeder.

Dude. Move the feeders out of the fenced in area.

Matthew[_3_]
March 16th 09, 07:53 PM
You never put a bell on an outside cat
besides quote unquote scaring the birds which in my experience does not
you alert everything to the present of your cat

Oh everyone my inside cats have bells and they have learned to move without
jingling them. I have one that has perfected it so I had to get a cowbell
that jingles at the slightest movement the little devil still can run quiet


"Linda Boucher" > wrote in message
...
> you should put a bell around there neck so the birds will
> know there coming..when a birds mate get killed it takes them a long time
> to get over it...we had a lone dove around for over a year when she lost
> her mate..it even harder for cardinal because you only see 2 of them
> around
> Linda
>> Espy kills the male cardinal. I saw from the window that he had
>> something red in his mouth
>
>

Matthew[_3_]
March 16th 09, 08:05 PM
"Linda Boucher" > wrote in message
...
> you should put a bell around there neck so the birds will
> know there coming..when a birds mate get killed it takes them a long time
> to get over it...we had a lone dove around for over a year when she lost
> her mate..it even harder for cardinal because you only see 2 of them
> around
> Linda
>> Espy kills the male cardinal. I saw from the window that he had
>> something red in his mouth
>
A fact sheet put out by the Mammal Society but unfortunately no longer
available on their website showed that putting bells on cats does not limit
their hunting ability, in fact belled cats in one particular study caught
more wildlife than their unbelled equivalents. Some reasons given were that
belled cats learn to move even more stealthily, the bells are not loud
enough to alert wildlife of danger anyway, and inertia holds the clanger
stationary and therefore silent when the cat makes the final attacking leap.
At least two other studies have highlighted that the belling of cats has no
effect on number of birds caught. "The efficiency of fitting cats with bells
is contentious. Barrette (1998), found that belling of cats has no
significant effect on the amount of prey caught. The result of the longer
study by Woods et al. shows that fewer mammals (mainly rodents) were killed
and brought home by cats that were equipped with bells BUT bird capture
rates were not affected. Bells may serve as a warning to rodents and other
mammals of a predator's approach, but birds may rely largely on visual cues
in predator avoidance behavior or they may not hear the bell due to its
acoustic qualities (Woods et al.). Coleman et al. (1997) suggests that wild
animals don't necessarily associate the ringing of the bell with danger and
that some cats with bells on their collars learn to stalk their prey
silently."
Refs:
Barrette D.G. (1998). Predation by house cats, Felis catus (L.), in
Canberra, Australia, II. Factors affecting the amount of prey caught and
estimates of the impact on wildlife. Wildlife Research. 25: 475-487.
Woods M., McDonald R.A. and Harris S. (2003). Predation of wildlife by
domestic cats Felis catus in Great Britain. The Mammal Society

March 16th 09, 08:22 PM
On Mar 16, 3:05*pm, "Linda Boucher" > wrote:
> you should put a bell around there neck so the birds will
> know there coming..when a birds mate get killed *it takes them a long time
> to get over it...we had a lone dove around *for over a year *when she lost
> her mate..it even harder *for cardinal *because *you only see 2 of them

Makes no difference. Our cats have considerable hardware (on purpose)
and can be heard at quite a distance. Never stopped them from hunting
(successfully). Although they have displayed no interest in birds much
- except when we were overseas and that is all there was to hunt. Cats
are sneak-and-pounce hunters - once they make their move they could be
as loud as a siren and it would make no difference to the prey.

As to why the cardinal:

a) cats do have some color sense and red up there.
b) Male cardinals act as guards for their mates and will rush in on
any threat - often to their detriment.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

jmc
March 16th 09, 09:58 PM
Suddenly, without warning, dgk exclaimed (3/16/2009 8:46 AM):
> I often let the cats out into the (fenced in) backyard when there is
> still food in the birdfeeder. Most of the time the birds are smart
> enough to stay away until the cats go back inside, but since the cats
> usually just lie around and watch sometimes the birds get bold.
>
> Once or twice a year the cats get something. Sometimes a bird,
> sometimes a mouse. Yesterday, out of maybe 40 sparrows and 15 pigeons,
> Espy kills the male cardinal. I saw from the window that he had
> something red in his mouth and was hoping that either it wasn't a bird
> or maybe I could rescue it if it was. But, no, too late.
>
> Later that day the female cardinal was all over the yard, flitting
> from tree to tree. I really feel badly about it. I know the cats are
> killers and sometimes birds get killed, but why the cardinal?
>
> I thought cats couldn't even see color, or at least not red. I have
> noticed that cardinals stick around longer towards dusk than other
> birds so perhaps it was a bit too bold about being on the ground near
> the bird feeder.
>
> Espy, next time, take out a pigeon.

I feel sorry for the cardinal, but that's darwinism in action. He won't
live to breed more overbold cardinals.

My cat's a fairly spectacularly failed hunter. In her 12 years of
hanging out in back yards with feeders, in THREE different countries,
she's never ever caught a bird. In fact, she's been seen running AWAY
from birds that harass her. Silly kitty :)

I have pictures of birds that would walk right up to the window when
she's inside, and yell at her from less than a foot, through the glass :)

On the other hand, since we've had her, we've never had a mouse in our
living area (except one time when we were locking her out of the
kitchen. We don't do that any more). I've never seen her kill a mouse,
but we've had mice around the house, and even in the attached garage of
one place, but have never, ever seen evidence of a mouse in the house.
So maybe she's not such a bad hunter after all.

In the kitchen incident, she'd been telling us for days that something
was up,hanging out near the dishwasher all the time, reluctant to leave
the kitchen when we closed it up for the night... until the morning when
I discovered a mouse in the garbage under the sink, and plenty of
evidence that it'd been around that cabinet for some time.

jmc

Cazz A
March 17th 09, 03:05 AM
Guys,
You're all missing the fact that birds may hear the bell, but they don't
always associate it with a cat, so they ignore it, or think 'That sounds
pretty' while we, who can see the whole picture feel like yelling 'The
jingle means approaching danger you stupid featherball!'

dgk
March 17th 09, 12:23 PM
On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:48:51 -0400, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>
>"dgk" > wrote
>> I really don't think the bell is very practical. One came with the
>> collars and was annoying enough (three cats) for me to remove it.
>> Their collars stay on all the time because their name tag and RF
>> tracker is on them. So, in the house it just makes too much noise. To
>> save one cardinal every six years is just too much noise pollution. I
>> figure lots get fat on my bird seed so the +/- ratio is still way up
>> there.
>>
>> I've watched Espy's hunting technique. He hides under the Azalea which
>> is about 6 feet from the bird feeder.
>
>Dude. Move the feeders out of the fenced in area.
>

Not practical. The fenced in area is the small backyard. I can't put
up a bird feeder in a neighbor's yard, nor could I easily get there to
put in food. There's also a heated bird bath to contend with.

dgk
March 17th 09, 01:35 PM
On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:05:15 -0400, "Matthew"
> wrote:

>
>"Linda Boucher" > wrote in message
...
>> you should put a bell around there neck so the birds will
>> know there coming..when a birds mate get killed it takes them a long time
>> to get over it...we had a lone dove around for over a year when she lost
>> her mate..it even harder for cardinal because you only see 2 of them
>> around
>> Linda
>>> Espy kills the male cardinal. I saw from the window that he had
>>> something red in his mouth
>>
>A fact sheet put out by the Mammal Society but unfortunately no longer
>available on their website showed that putting bells on cats does not limit
>their hunting ability, in fact belled cats in one particular study caught
>more wildlife than their unbelled equivalents. Some reasons given were that
>belled cats learn to move even more stealthily, the bells are not loud
>enough to alert wildlife of danger anyway, and inertia holds the clanger
>stationary and therefore silent when the cat makes the final attacking leap.
>At least two other studies have highlighted that the belling of cats has no
>effect on number of birds caught. "The efficiency of fitting cats with bells
>is contentious. Barrette (1998), found that belling of cats has no
>significant effect on the amount of prey caught. The result of the longer
>study by Woods et al. shows that fewer mammals (mainly rodents) were killed
>and brought home by cats that were equipped with bells BUT bird capture
>rates were not affected. Bells may serve as a warning to rodents and other
>mammals of a predator's approach, but birds may rely largely on visual cues
>in predator avoidance behavior or they may not hear the bell due to its
>acoustic qualities (Woods et al.). Coleman et al. (1997) suggests that wild
>animals don't necessarily associate the ringing of the bell with danger and
>that some cats with bells on their collars learn to stalk their prey
>silently."
>Refs:
>Barrette D.G. (1998). Predation by house cats, Felis catus (L.), in
>Canberra, Australia, II. Factors affecting the amount of prey caught and
>estimates of the impact on wildlife. Wildlife Research. 25: 475-487.
>Woods M., McDonald R.A. and Harris S. (2003). Predation of wildlife by
>domestic cats Felis catus in Great Britain. The Mammal Society
>

I learn another counter-intuitive fact. Well, not totally. I didn't
think a bell would have much of a deterimental effect but it's nice to
know it for sure.

dgk
March 17th 09, 01:36 PM
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:05:29 +1100, Cazz A
> wrote:

>Guys,
>You're all missing the fact that birds may hear the bell, but they don't
>always associate it with a cat, so they ignore it, or think 'That sounds
>pretty' while we, who can see the whole picture feel like yelling 'The
>jingle means approaching danger you stupid featherball!'

Thus the expression "bird brain".

dgk
March 17th 09, 01:43 PM
On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:58:46 -0400, jmc
> wrote:

>Suddenly, without warning, dgk exclaimed (3/16/2009 8:46 AM):
>> I often let the cats out into the (fenced in) backyard when there is
>> still food in the birdfeeder. Most of the time the birds are smart
>> enough to stay away until the cats go back inside, but since the cats
>> usually just lie around and watch sometimes the birds get bold.
>>
>> Once or twice a year the cats get something. Sometimes a bird,
>> sometimes a mouse. Yesterday, out of maybe 40 sparrows and 15 pigeons,
>> Espy kills the male cardinal. I saw from the window that he had
>> something red in his mouth and was hoping that either it wasn't a bird
>> or maybe I could rescue it if it was. But, no, too late.
>>
>> Later that day the female cardinal was all over the yard, flitting
>> from tree to tree. I really feel badly about it. I know the cats are
>> killers and sometimes birds get killed, but why the cardinal?
>>
>> I thought cats couldn't even see color, or at least not red. I have
>> noticed that cardinals stick around longer towards dusk than other
>> birds so perhaps it was a bit too bold about being on the ground near
>> the bird feeder.
>>
>> Espy, next time, take out a pigeon.
>
>I feel sorry for the cardinal, but that's darwinism in action. He won't
>live to breed more overbold cardinals.
>
>My cat's a fairly spectacularly failed hunter. In her 12 years of
>hanging out in back yards with feeders, in THREE different countries,
>she's never ever caught a bird. In fact, she's been seen running AWAY
>from birds that harass her. Silly kitty :)
>
>I have pictures of birds that would walk right up to the window when
>she's inside, and yell at her from less than a foot, through the glass :)
>
>On the other hand, since we've had her, we've never had a mouse in our
>living area (except one time when we were locking her out of the
>kitchen. We don't do that any more). I've never seen her kill a mouse,
>but we've had mice around the house, and even in the attached garage of
>one place, but have never, ever seen evidence of a mouse in the house.
>So maybe she's not such a bad hunter after all.
>
>In the kitchen incident, she'd been telling us for days that something
>was up,hanging out near the dishwasher all the time, reluctant to leave
>the kitchen when we closed it up for the night... until the morning when
>I discovered a mouse in the garbage under the sink, and plenty of
>evidence that it'd been around that cabinet for some time.
>
>jmc


If the birds stayed on the bird feeder there would never be a problem.
But the ones on the feeder knock down seed to the ground and the
opportunistic birds are pecking away. There they are, six feet from
the cat under the naked azalea. Really, I've been amazed that so few
birds get killed. I feel bad when any of them die, but seeing that
female hanging around was awful.

It's probably the same with sparrows, but I can't tell them apart.

cybercat
March 17th 09, 04:54 PM
"dgk" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:48:51 -0400, "cybercat" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"dgk" > wrote
>>> I really don't think the bell is very practical. One came with the
>>> collars and was annoying enough (three cats) for me to remove it.
>>> Their collars stay on all the time because their name tag and RF
>>> tracker is on them. So, in the house it just makes too much noise. To
>>> save one cardinal every six years is just too much noise pollution. I
>>> figure lots get fat on my bird seed so the +/- ratio is still way up
>>> there.
>>>
>>> I've watched Espy's hunting technique. He hides under the Azalea which
>>> is about 6 feet from the bird feeder.
>>
>>Dude. Move the feeders out of the fenced in area.
>>
>
> Not practical. The fenced in area is the small backyard. I can't put
> up a bird feeder in a neighbor's yard, nor could I easily get there to
> put in food. There's also a heated bird bath to contend with.

Well then get used to seeing birds buy it. It's a matter of priorities,
right?

dejablues[_4_]
March 18th 09, 02:20 AM
"dgk" > wrote in message
...
>I often let the cats out into the (fenced in) backyard when there is
> still food in the birdfeeder. Most of the time the birds are smart
> enough to stay away until the cats go back inside, but since the cats
> usually just lie around and watch sometimes the birds get bold.

If you want to feed birds, don't let the cats get to them. That's like
putting out a salt lick and shooting the deer that come to it.

If you insist on letting your cats out, get rid of the birdfeeder. Are you a
sadist or what?

dgk
March 18th 09, 12:17 PM
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:54:18 -0400, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>
>"dgk" > wrote in message
...
>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:48:51 -0400, "cybercat" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"dgk" > wrote
>>>> I really don't think the bell is very practical. One came with the
>>>> collars and was annoying enough (three cats) for me to remove it.
>>>> Their collars stay on all the time because their name tag and RF
>>>> tracker is on them. So, in the house it just makes too much noise. To
>>>> save one cardinal every six years is just too much noise pollution. I
>>>> figure lots get fat on my bird seed so the +/- ratio is still way up
>>>> there.
>>>>
>>>> I've watched Espy's hunting technique. He hides under the Azalea which
>>>> is about 6 feet from the bird feeder.
>>>
>>>Dude. Move the feeders out of the fenced in area.
>>>
>>
>> Not practical. The fenced in area is the small backyard. I can't put
>> up a bird feeder in a neighbor's yard, nor could I easily get there to
>> put in food. There's also a heated bird bath to contend with.
>
>Well then get used to seeing birds buy it. It's a matter of priorities,
>right?
>

Right. I like letting my cats have some outdoor time and they sure
seem to like it. I try to do this when the bird feeder is empty but
most of the time they're yowling to go out and there is still seed
left. The birds take off when I bang on the door and are quite aware
of the cats.

I've been feeding birds and letting the cats out for maybe ten years.
I think three birds have been killed. That's really a pretty low ratio
I'd say. Considering I go through 20 lbs ( 9 kg) of seed a week, I
think I save a huge number of birds during the winter.

They also have killed three or four birds during all the months that I
don't have the bird feeder going. I'm not keeping them inside all the
time just because they might kill a bird. They're cats, that's what
they do.

dgk
March 18th 09, 12:33 PM
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:20:54 -0400, "dejablues"
> wrote:

>
>"dgk" > wrote in message
...
>>I often let the cats out into the (fenced in) backyard when there is
>> still food in the birdfeeder. Most of the time the birds are smart
>> enough to stay away until the cats go back inside, but since the cats
>> usually just lie around and watch sometimes the birds get bold.
>
>If you want to feed birds, don't let the cats get to them. That's like
>putting out a salt lick and shooting the deer that come to it.
>
>If you insist on letting your cats out, get rid of the birdfeeder. Are you a
>sadist or what?
>

20 lbs of birdseed per week. Three dead birds over years of doing
this. You figure out how many birds survive the winter because I put
out birdseed all the time. I even put out a heated bird bath the last
two years - this one:
http://www.birdbaths.com/bird-baths/resin-bird-baths/allseasonsheatedbirdbath.cfm

It isn't cheap to operate I assure you. And, because the heated water
evaporates quickly in the cold, you need to fill and clean it every
other day at least. Still, it's worth it to watch the birdies taking a
bath in freezing weather. Plus it's amusing to watch the icycles form
down the side if the weather is just right.

I need to post a sign though: "Please don't poop where you drink!".

Nah, not sadistic. Just two conflicting desires that mostly work out
ok.

cybercat
March 18th 09, 03:22 PM
"dgk" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:54:18 -0400, "cybercat" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"dgk" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:48:51 -0400, "cybercat" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"dgk" > wrote
>>>>> I really don't think the bell is very practical. One came with the
>>>>> collars and was annoying enough (three cats) for me to remove it.
>>>>> Their collars stay on all the time because their name tag and RF
>>>>> tracker is on them. So, in the house it just makes too much noise. To
>>>>> save one cardinal every six years is just too much noise pollution. I
>>>>> figure lots get fat on my bird seed so the +/- ratio is still way up
>>>>> there.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've watched Espy's hunting technique. He hides under the Azalea which
>>>>> is about 6 feet from the bird feeder.
>>>>
>>>>Dude. Move the feeders out of the fenced in area.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not practical. The fenced in area is the small backyard. I can't put
>>> up a bird feeder in a neighbor's yard, nor could I easily get there to
>>> put in food. There's also a heated bird bath to contend with.
>>
>>Well then get used to seeing birds buy it. It's a matter of priorities,
>>right?
>>
>
> Right. I like letting my cats have some outdoor time and they sure
> seem to like it. I try to do this when the bird feeder is empty but
> most of the time they're yowling to go out and there is still seed
> left. The birds take off when I bang on the door and are quite aware
> of the cats.
>
> I've been feeding birds and letting the cats out for maybe ten years.
> I think three birds have been killed. That's really a pretty low ratio
> I'd say. Considering I go through 20 lbs ( 9 kg) of seed a week, I
> think I save a huge number of birds during the winter.
>
> They also have killed three or four birds during all the months that I
> don't have the bird feeder going. I'm not keeping them inside all the
> time just because they might kill a bird. They're cats, that's what
> they do.

Right.

dejablues[_4_]
March 21st 09, 04:49 AM
"dgk" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:54:18 -0400, "cybercat" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"dgk" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:48:51 -0400, "cybercat" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"dgk" > wrote
>>>>> I really don't think the bell is very practical. One came with the
>>>>> collars and was annoying enough (three cats) for me to remove it.
>>>>> Their collars stay on all the time because their name tag and RF
>>>>> tracker is on them. So, in the house it just makes too much noise. To
>>>>> save one cardinal every six years is just too much noise pollution. I
>>>>> figure lots get fat on my bird seed so the +/- ratio is still way up
>>>>> there.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've watched Espy's hunting technique. He hides under the Azalea which
>>>>> is about 6 feet from the bird feeder.
>>>>
>>>>Dude. Move the feeders out of the fenced in area.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not practical. The fenced in area is the small backyard. I can't put
>>> up a bird feeder in a neighbor's yard, nor could I easily get there to
>>> put in food. There's also a heated bird bath to contend with.
>>
>>Well then get used to seeing birds buy it. It's a matter of priorities,
>>right?
>>
>
> Right. I like letting my cats have some outdoor time and they sure
> seem to like it. I try to do this when the bird feeder is empty but
> most of the time they're yowling to go out and there is still seed
> left. The birds take off when I bang on the door and are quite aware
> of the cats.

But they come back.
Birds are hungry, all year round. They know where seed might be found,
whether or not you were felt like providing it.


>
> I've been feeding birds and letting the cats out for maybe ten years.
> I think three birds have been killed. That's really a pretty low ratio
> I'd say. Considering I go through 20 lbs ( 9 kg) of seed a week, I
> think I save a huge number of birds during the winter.
>
> They also have killed three or four birds during all the months that I
> don't have the bird feeder going. I'm not keeping them inside all the
> time just because they might kill a bird. They're cats, that's what
> they do.

Oh well.
What you posted shows that you are pretty clueless about the behavior of
cats and birds.

March 21st 09, 05:42 PM
On Mar 20, 10:49*pm, "dejablues" > wrote:
> "dgk" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:54:18 -0400, "cybercat" >
> > wrote:
>
> >>"dgk" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:48:51 -0400, "cybercat" >
> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>>"dgk" > wrote
> >>>>> I really don't think the bell is very practical. One came with the
> >>>>> collars and was annoying enough (three cats) for me to remove it.
> >>>>> Their collars stay on all the time because their name tag and RF
> >>>>> tracker is on them. So, in the house it just makes too much noise. To
> >>>>> save one cardinal every six years is just too much noise pollution. I
> >>>>> figure lots get fat on my bird seed so the +/- ratio is still way up
> >>>>> there.
>
> >>>>> I've watched Espy's hunting technique. He hides under the Azalea which
> >>>>> is about 6 feet from the bird feeder.
>
> >>>>Dude. Move the feeders out of the fenced in area.
>
> >>> Not practical. The fenced in area is the small backyard. I can't put
> >>> up a bird feeder in a neighbor's yard, nor could I easily get there to
> >>> put in food. There's also a heated bird bath to contend with.
>
> >>Well then get used to seeing birds buy it. It's a matter of priorities,
> >>right?
>
> > Right. I like letting my cats have some outdoor time and they sure
> > seem to like it. I try to do this when the bird feeder is empty but
> > most of the time they're yowling to go out and there is still seed
> > left. The birds take off when I bang on the door and are quite aware
> > of the cats.
>
> But they come back.
> Birds are hungry, all year round. They know where seed might be found,
> whether or not you were felt like providing it.
>
>
>
> > I've been feeding birds and letting the cats out for maybe ten years.
> > I think three birds have been killed. That's really a pretty low ratio
> > I'd say. Considering I go through 20 lbs ( 9 kg) of seed a week, I
> > think I save a huge number of birds during the winter.
>
> > They also have killed three or four birds during all the months that I
> > don't have the bird feeder going. I'm not keeping them inside all the
> > time just because they might kill a bird. They're cats, that's what
> > they do.
>
> Oh well.
> What you posted shows that you are pretty clueless about the behavior of
> cats and birds.

We love cats but really don't like birds, to put it mildly; we also
have a feeder
bowl for squirrels in a place impossible for the cats to get to. We
don't care if
any birds fight the squirrels to sneak a bit of nuts from the squirrel
bowl.
It did not require rocket science to make this arrangement. The cats
do seem
to sense and be aware that their outdoor recreation area is actually
three stories
above the ground, which matters not to the birds and/or squirrels
above the
deck out of reach of the cats.
I do believe the OP can figure something out to avoid birds being
wasted, as in
"offed", not literally.