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Eddy[_2_]
April 17th 09, 02:00 PM
Hi. I posted here last week about our cat suffering from
cardiomyopathy, HCM.

Another question. In the past four days we've twice found him in the
litter tray crunching on a fragment of litter, as if it were a cat
biscuit. He's four and a half years old and has never done this before.
Does this indicate that he "thinks" that he's missing some particular
mineral or something? Is it something that cats with HCM do? I'm sure
consuming just two tiny pieces of litter won't do him any harm. It's
only clay, after all. But it is odd, particularly as there is always a
slight trace of urine somewhere in the litter despite it being kept
clean.

Any thoughts?

Eddy.

Matthew[_3_]
April 17th 09, 03:51 PM
Cat your vet now

And yes it can harm him it can cause blockages


"Eddy" > wrote in message
...
> Hi. I posted here last week about our cat suffering from
> cardiomyopathy, HCM.
>
> Another question. In the past four days we've twice found him in the
> litter tray crunching on a fragment of litter, as if it were a cat
> biscuit. He's four and a half years old and has never done this before.
> Does this indicate that he "thinks" that he's missing some particular
> mineral or something? Is it something that cats with HCM do? I'm sure
> consuming just two tiny pieces of litter won't do him any harm. It's
> only clay, after all. But it is odd, particularly as there is always a
> slight trace of urine somewhere in the litter despite it being kept
> clean.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Eddy.
>

April 17th 09, 04:38 PM
I agree with Matthew. No, it is not normal for an adult cat to be
eating litter.Please call your vet today. Clay, especially the
clumping kind, can cause intestinal problems if ingested (as it
"clumps" like the name suggests). At the very least, he could have
some sort of deficiency.

Rene

Phil P.
April 18th 09, 06:44 AM
"Eddy" > wrote in message
...
> Hi. I posted here last week about our cat suffering from
> cardiomyopathy, HCM.
>
> Another question. In the past four days we've twice found him in the
> litter tray crunching on a fragment of litter, as if it were a cat
> biscuit. He's four and a half years old and has never done this before.
> Does this indicate that he "thinks" that he's missing some particular
> mineral or something? Is it something that cats with HCM do? I'm sure
> consuming just two tiny pieces of litter won't do him any harm. It's
> only clay, after all. But it is odd, particularly as there is always a
> slight trace of urine somewhere in the litter despite it being kept
> clean.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Eddy.

You might want to have your cat's blood tested- hematocrit [HCT]/packed cell
volume [PCV], Red Blood Cell [RBC] count, and hemoglobin, in particular.

Just curious- was your cat's diagnosis confirmed with an echocardiogram?
HCM in a 4 1/2 year-old is unusual unless its congenital.

Phil

Eddy[_2_]
April 18th 09, 09:58 AM
Phil P. wrote:
> You might want to have your cat's blood tested- hematocrit [HCT]/packed cell
> volume [PCV], Red Blood Cell [RBC] count, and hemoglobin, in particular.
>
> Just curious- was your cat's diagnosis confirmed with an echocardiogram?
> HCM in a 4 1/2 year-old is unusual unless its congenital.

Thanks for this, Phil. Will mention it to the vet when I go to get
further supplies of his medication on Monday.

Have now also had a chance to have a good chat with the vet about the
helpful suggestions (you made) last week. I relayed to her all that
you said. As a consequence, we have learnt that this cat is far more
seriously ill than we previously realised. She said that he has serious
heart congestive failure. She believes it may well be congenital and
knowing the cat well we think this is probably true. This
extraordinarily loving and friendly cat has always been *very lazy* in
comparison to his totally healthy twin brother and in the past twelve
months his *laziness* has noticeably increased. Now, of course, we find
that the poor creature has been struggling along on a seriously enlarged
and deformed heart. Anyway, as for the alternative treatments you
suggested, the vet says she might have prescribed these had we caught
the situation 12 months ago, but in the current serious situation she
assures me general opinion amongst vets is that ace-inhibitors are best.
As for a diuretic which doesn't eliminate potassium she says that if
the cat survives the next few weeks but loses a lot of overall
body-weight then she would consider altering the diuretic.

Basically, as a result of your suggestions, Phil, we have had a
conversation with our vet which has led us to understand that this cat's
situation is very serious. It's a knife-edge situation. Up and down.
A week ago his respiratory intakes per minute were about 40! Now its
at least stable between 23 and 33. However, he is spending a lot of
time resting and sleeping. But he's loving his food and when the sun
shines he's clearly very happy outside. It's all a balance. The thing
that we are watching for mostly is "open-mouth breathing". The vet says
she wants to hear immediately if he starts open-mouth breathing again.

Thanks for your help.

Eddy.

Eddy[_2_]
April 18th 09, 10:00 AM
wrote:
> If this is any help at all....my cats *eat* those organic-based
> "green: litters like
> the wheat based one and the pine stuff that smells good. I have for
> this reason
> only used clay litter, clumping type...which they don[t find tempting,
> evidently.
> There is nothing wrong with them, BTW. I doubt you use those litters,
> though;
> they are not popular due to their expense.

I know the kind of litter you mean. Our cats just wouldn't touch it.
"This is not litter!" they said. The wood-based one then proved rather
useful for kicking off the evening fire in the wood-burner!

Eddy.

Eddy[_2_]
April 18th 09, 10:04 AM
wrote:

> I agree with Matthew. No, it is not normal for an adult cat to be
> eating litter.Please call your vet today. Clay, especially the
> clumping kind, can cause intestinal problems if ingested (as it
> "clumps" like the name suggests). At the very least, he could have
> some sort of deficiency.

Thanks, Rene and Matthew. Will mention to vet. But am not overly
concerned at present. He only crunched on a tiny fragment on each of
two days and I am not certain he consumed them. But take your point
that litter would turn into thick clay in the gut and possibly not move
along.

Eddy.

Phil P.
April 19th 09, 08:55 AM
"Eddy" > wrote in message
...
> Phil P. wrote:
> > You might want to have your cat's blood tested- hematocrit [HCT]/packed
cell
> > volume [PCV], Red Blood Cell [RBC] count, and hemoglobin, in particular.
> >
> > Just curious- was your cat's diagnosis confirmed with an echocardiogram?
> > HCM in a 4 1/2 year-old is unusual unless its congenital.
>
> Thanks for this, Phil. Will mention it to the vet when I go to get
> further supplies of his medication on Monday.
>
> Have now also had a chance to have a good chat with the vet about the
> helpful suggestions (you made) last week. I relayed to her all that
> you said. As a consequence, we have learnt that this cat is far more
> seriously ill than we previously realised. She said that he has serious
> heart congestive failure.

I'm very sorry to hear that. When was she planning on giving you the rest of
your cat's diagnosis?


She believes it may well be congenital and
> knowing the cat well we think this is probably true. This
> extraordinarily loving and friendly cat has always been *very lazy* in
> comparison to his totally healthy twin brother and in the past twelve
> months his *laziness* has noticeably increased. Now, of course, we find
> that the poor creature has been struggling along on a seriously enlarged
> and deformed heart. Anyway, as for the alternative treatments you
> suggested, the vet says she might have prescribed these had we caught
> the situation 12 months ago, but in the current serious situation she
> assures me general opinion amongst vets is that ace-inhibitors are best.


At this stage of CHF, I agree.. ACE inhibitors do help a lot but they also
have some deleterious side effects that you have to watch out for. When you
combine an ACEI with high-dose diuretics, you could reduce renal perfusion
which could cause azotemia- which could make your cat nauseous and stop
eating. So, watch out for early signs of anorexia.


> As for a diuretic which doesn't eliminate potassium she says that if
> the cat survives the next few weeks but loses a lot of overall
> body-weight then she would consider altering the diuretic.


I think we have a misunderstanding. I suggested adding a potassium
supplement- not changing diuretics. I also suggested mentioning
nitroglycerin ointment to her. The vasoodilating effects of Nitro will help
reduce edema by lowering atrial filling pressures. Nitro and furosemide are
almost always used together in CHF cases.

>
> Basically, as a result of your suggestions, Phil, we have had a
> conversation with our vet which has led us to understand that this cat's
> situation is very serious. It's a knife-edge situation. Up and down.
> A week ago his respiratory intakes per minute were about 40! Now its
> at least stable between 23 and 33. However, he is spending a lot of
> time resting and sleeping. But he's loving his food and when the sun
> shines he's clearly very happy outside. It's all a balance. The thing
> that we are watching for mostly is "open-mouth breathing". The vet says
> she wants to hear immediately if he starts open-mouth breathing again.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Eddy.


I strongly suggest you consult a veterinary cardiologist as soon as
possible. You can find one at almost every veterinary college. I'm surprised
your vet didn't suggest this. Think about it- if you had a heart condition,
wouldn't you see a cardiologist in addition to a general practitioner?

I wish you and your cat the best of luck,

Phil







>

Eddy[_2_]
April 19th 09, 12:00 PM
wrote:
> I have a fireplace...burns wood...but after some thought, this north-
> winter-dumdum
> FL native, now in MileHigh, decided your good use of wood-based cat
> litter will
> only serve to smother a fire here or else cause a much larger
> conflagration than
> the small fireplace was made for....going on the side of caution, I
> salute your
> ingenuity

Hi, Hopitus. We are still using the wood-pellet litter to kickstart the
fire. Any empty little cardboard box from the pantry is never thrown
away but filled with the pellets and one fire-starter, placed in the
centre of the wigwam of logs, and then lit. Works a treat.

> Sometimes I see a few clay granules on my cat's mouth. I think it's
> just from]
> sniffing their offerings, which is something cats do....maybe yours?

Could be.

Eddy.