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Calvin
June 4th 09, 08:20 PM
Please see this link:

http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/interferon-roferon-a/page1.aspx

Here it lists liver damage and nervous system damage, in addition
to other side effects mentioned in the previous thread, such as
loss of appetite and throwing up, as possible side effects.

My vet saw the cat again two days ago. At that time I told him
about having waited a week to start the interferon, and about my
concern about side effects. He told me that he had never seen
side effects from interferon.

We are now in the week off from interferon, after the first week on
it.
Next Monday, the day before interferon is to start again, the cat is
to be neutered. I will bring him home the next day, when the
interferon
is to start again. The vet seems to think that the interferon may
help
with any weaknesses that the cat, having leukemia, might have
aggrivated by the neutering. He recommended timing the neutering
so that it would be followed by a week back on interferon.

Does any of this make sense to those of you who are serious?

cybercat
June 6th 09, 05:16 PM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
> Please see this link:
>
> http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/interferon-roferon-a/page1.aspx
>
> Here it lists liver damage and nervous system damage, in addition
> to other side effects mentioned in the previous thread, such as
> loss of appetite and throwing up, as possible side effects.
>
> My vet saw the cat again two days ago. At that time I told him
> about having waited a week to start the interferon, and about my
> concern about side effects. He told me that he had never seen
> side effects from interferon.
>
> We are now in the week off from interferon, after the first week on
> it.
> Next Monday, the day before interferon is to start again, the cat is
> to be neutered. I will bring him home the next day, when the
> interferon
> is to start again. The vet seems to think that the interferon may
> help
> with any weaknesses that the cat, having leukemia, might have
> aggrivated by the neutering. He recommended timing the neutering
> so that it would be followed by a week back on interferon.
>
> Does any of this make sense to those of you who are serious?

I seriously think you are an idiot.

Calvin
June 6th 09, 05:51 PM
On Jun 6, 12:16*pm, "cybercat" > wrote:
> I seriously think you are an idiot.

You already said that. Please leave me alone to
talk to people about what is best for this cat.

Matthew[_3_]
June 6th 09, 06:50 PM
"calvin" >
<snipped>

Have you got a second opinion??

If you are not going to listen to the advice that the others here have gave
you. Specially YOUR OWN VET and what Phil P. gave you. If not WHAT THE
HECK DO YOU WANT. Honestly

Calvin
June 6th 09, 07:04 PM
On Jun 6, 1:50*pm, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "calvin" >
> <snipped>
> Have you got a second opinion??
> If you are not going to listen to the advice that the others here have gave
> you. Specially YOUR OWN VET and what Phil P. gave you. *If not *WHAT THE
> HECK DO YOU WANT. *Honestly

I'm listening to everything. Please try to see this from my
perspective. This is the first time one of my cats has been
prescribed something to be taken indefinitely, for as long
as the cat lives. Naturally I care about side effects.
How can you fault me for that? I have given a link which
states that possible side effects are

liver damage
nervous system damage
loss of appetite
vomiting

I will be giving the cat interferon for the second week, starting
tuesday, after a week off. But after that, unless someone can
give me good reason to ignore the four warnings listed above,
the interferon will be stopped. If 'Phil P' thinks those specific
warnings should be ignored, then let him tell me why.

It doesn't help for you and 'cybercat' to barge into this thread
with nothing to offer except name-calling, which doesn't have
any effect on me anyway.

Here is the link again:
http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/interferon-roferon-a/page1.aspx
If you're serious, and not just a hostile name-caller, then please
read what it says under 'Precautions and Side Effects'.

cyberpurrs
June 6th 09, 07:10 PM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
ng.com...
>
> "calvin" >
> <snipped>
>
> Have you got a second opinion??
>
> If you are not going to listen to the advice that the others here have
> gave you. Specially YOUR OWN VET and what Phil P. gave you. If not WHAT
> THE HECK DO YOU WANT. Honestly
>

Thanks for translating my comment to Calvin, and good job, too.

Calvin
June 6th 09, 07:10 PM
On Jun 6, 2:04*pm, calvin > wrote:
> ...*I have given a link which
> states that possible side effects are
>
> liver damage
> nervous system damage
> loss of appetite
> vomiting

I left out one, the link also lists anemia as a possible side effect.

cyberpurrs
June 6th 09, 07:14 PM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 6, 1:50 pm, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "calvin" >
> <snipped>
> Have you got a second opinion??
> If you are not going to listen to the advice that the others here have
> gave
> you. Specially YOUR OWN VET and what Phil P. gave you. If not WHAT THE
> HECK DO YOU WANT. Honestly

I'm listening to everything. Please try to see this from my
perspective. This is the first time one of my cats has been
prescribed something to be taken indefinitely, for as long
as the cat lives. Naturally I care about side effects.
How can you fault me for that? I have given a link which
states that possible side effects are

liver damage
nervous system damage
loss of appetite
vomiting

I will be giving the cat interferon for the second week, starting
tuesday, after a week off. But after that, unless someone can
give me good reason to ignore the four warnings listed above,
the interferon will be stopped. If 'Phil P' thinks those specific
warnings should be ignored, then let him tell me why.

It doesn't help for you and 'cybercat' to barge into this thread
with nothing to offer except name-calling, which doesn't have
any effect on me anyway.

>Here is the link again:
>http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/interferon-roferon-a/page1.aspx
>If you're serious, and not just a hostile name-caller, then please
>read what it says under 'Precautions and Side Effects'.


Have you read the side effects of the medication your doctor gives you? WHY
WOULD YOU EVER TAKE THAT MEDICINE?

You've been told by experts that this is the right thing to do for your cat,
in your cat's situation. Now what the **** do you want from us?

Calvin
June 6th 09, 07:19 PM
On Jun 6, 2:14*pm, "cyberpurrs" > wrote:
> ...
> You've been told by experts that this is the right thing to do for your cat,
> in your cat's situation. Now what the **** do you want from us?

I want you and Matthew to go away. I want the others to
explain why it is wise to give a cat never-ending medication
that may cause these side effects:

liver damage
nervous system damage
loss of appetite
vomiting
anemia

Matthew[_3_]
June 6th 09, 09:17 PM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 6, 2:14 pm, "cyberpurrs" > wrote:
> ...
> You've been told by experts that this is the right thing to do for your
> cat,
> in your cat's situation. Now what the **** do you want from us?

I want you and Matthew to go away. I want the others to
explain why it is wise to give a cat never-ending medication
that may cause these side effects:

liver damage
nervous system damage
loss of appetite
vomiting
anemia


AIN'T going to happen it is called the WWW aka internet aka a free posting
forum I have been here a lot longer than you have ever thought about using
the internet and I have helped more people with their pets both in real
life, rescues and this forum than you can even thinking of every recalling
in your life.

So again I understand asking questions. It is a scary thing to have a
person, friend, family member or pet go through long term problems. But
THEY HAVE EXPLAINED BUT YOU ARE NOT LISTENING. STAY THE "F" off the
internet blogs and if you have questions that your vet is not explaining to
you or that you can't get from the forum. CALL ANOTHER VET FOR A SECOND
OPINION.

Every medication that is on the market can have dangerous side effect from
simple aspirin to herb supplements to the new experimental drugs.

Why anyone would do what you ask is to save the animal. To at least give
them a fighting chance. One of my cats has epilepsy. He is allergic to
pentobarbital the common given medication. He had to go on diazepam one
of the side effects is possible liver and kidney damage. He has been off of
it for years and been seizure free for years. My option put him to sleep or
give him the medication and keep him around living a good life for many
years to come.

AGAIN HONESTLY WHAT DO YOU WANT. No one is going to get on a plane come to
you and hold your hand.

Phil has listed so much information for you which I bet you have looked up
on the www have you discussed it with your vet. If so and you still have
questions CALL ANOTHER VET. That would be 3 plus people telling you what
to do.

You may not like what me or cyber has to say but welcome to Real life. If
I was to come there I would drag you down to the vets office and make him
write it all out for you. Show the vet all of the info provide by our
resident helpers. Ask him if this was true. If you still had issues. Than
drag you to another vet for a second physical opinion; third plus opinion
and make them write it down for you again. If there was a difference of
agreement I would find a third vet. We do it when we have problems. Is
this so hard or do I need crayons and a etch-a-sketch

M[_2_]
June 6th 09, 10:28 PM
you aren't very old are you? You are not at the age where you
take meds regularly are you? The benefits of my meds outweigh
the listed side effects. Besides those side effects affect
different people differently and most times not at all. So if
I do notice any of those side effects I will call my Dr and we
will figure something else out. Better than the "side effects"
I'd have without the meds.

"calvin" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 6, 2:14 pm, "cyberpurrs" > wrote:
> ...
> You've been told by experts that this is the right thing to
> do for your cat,
> in your cat's situation. Now what the **** do you want from
> us?

I want you and Matthew to go away. I want the others to
explain why it is wise to give a cat never-ending medication
that may cause these side effects:

liver damage
nervous system damage
loss of appetite
vomiting
anemia

Calvin
June 6th 09, 10:41 PM
On Jun 6, 4:17*pm, "Matthew" > wrote:
> ...
> You may not like what me or cyber has to say *but welcome to Real life. *If
> I was to come there I would drag you down to the vets office and make him
> write it all out for you. Show the vet all of the info provide by our
> resident helpers. *Ask him if this was true. *If you still had issues.. Than
> drag you to another vet for a second physical opinion; third plus opinion
> and make them write it down for you again. *If there was a difference of
> agreement I would find a third vet. *We do it when we have problems. *Is
> this so hard *or do I need crayons and a etch-a-sketch

What part of 'never-ending medication' don't you understand?
I can observe loss of appetite and vomiting; but I can't observe
liver damage, nervous system damage, or anemia; so those
could be advancing without anyone's knowledge, month after
month. I wouldn't know it and the vet wouldn't know it. Then
when the cat became obviously sick the vet could say it's the
leukemia, even if it really is the side effects. How would he
know?

I will look for a second opinion about the risks of using
interferon endlessly. That's essentially what I'm trying
to do here. I gave in and decided to do the interferon
for two on/off cycles, one of which has been done.
Since you know so much, why don't you tell me what
good interferon is supposed to do, since the disease
is incurable. Also, since the cat seems to me to have
good quality of life, I asked the vet if there is any chance
that the test gave a false positive result. He said no, with
certainty. Is that certainty reasonable? I don't know.

Phil P.
June 6th 09, 11:03 PM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
> Please see this link:
>
> http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/interferon-roferon-a/page1.aspx
>
> Here it lists liver damage and nervous system damage, in addition
> to other side effects mentioned in the previous thread, such as
> loss of appetite and throwing up, as possible side effects.


For the last time: Those side effects were extrapolated from *HUMAN* -
*HUMAN* - *HUMAN* studies that involved much higher doses (>3 million IU)
administered IM, SC, or IP.. The feline dose is only *30* IU *orally*- . I
told you this a few times in your first thread.

Did you read and understand the excerpts I posted from the two top
veterinary drug handbooks?

Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook. Plumb's is the #1 veterinary drug
handbook.

"Adverse Effects/Warnings - When used orally in cats, adverse effects have
apparently not yet been noted. "

Is there any part of that you don't understand?


Here are the adverse effects that have been reported in *HUMANS*:

"When used systemically in humans, adverse
effects have included anemia, leukope*nias, thrombocytopenia,
hepatotoxicity, neurotoxicity, changes in taste sensation, anorexia,
nau*sea, vomiting, diarrhea, dizziness, "flu-like" syndrome, transient
hypotension, skin rashes and dry mouth. Except for the "flu-like "syndrome
most adverse effects are dose related and may vary depending on the
condition treated."

Now, do you understand that the adverse effects you read were extrapolated
from studies in HUMANS and apply to HUMANS, NOT CATS? I don't know how much
clearer I can make this.

If you still don't get it, take your cat to your vet and ask him to find a
good home for your cat. When your vet asks you why you're giving up your
cat, tell him its because you're too obtuse to be entrusted with a cat.


>
> My vet saw the cat again two days ago. At that time I told him
> about having waited a week to start the interferon, and about my
> concern about side effects. He told me that he had never seen
> side effects from interferon.
>
> We are now in the week off from interferon, after the first week on
> it.
> Next Monday, the day before interferon is to start again, the cat is
> to be neutered. I will bring him home the next day, when the
> interferon
> is to start again. The vet seems to think that the interferon may
> help
> with any weaknesses that the cat, having leukemia, might have
> aggrivated by the neutering. He recommended timing the neutering
> so that it would be followed by a week back on interferon.
>
> Does any of this make sense to those of you who are serious?


Makes perfect sense. Surgery stresses the immune system. Interferon
strengthens the immune system.

Calvin
June 7th 09, 12:03 AM
On Jun 6, 6:03*pm, "Phil P." > wrote:
> ... you're too obtuse to be entrusted with a cat.

I have nine cats, and have been taking cats to this vet
for about a decade. This is the first time he has
prescribed a NEVER ENDING medication. It bothers
me because I care about cats. Insult me all you like.

There's nothing at the link I gave that says the possible
animal side effects were extrapolated from human
side effects. You want me to just take your word for
that, and if I don't, then you insult me again. Have a
nice day.

cybercat
June 7th 09, 12:42 AM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 6, 6:03 pm, "Phil P." > wrote:
> ... you're too obtuse to be entrusted with a cat.

I have nine cats, and have been taking cats to this vet
for about a decade. This is the first time he has
prescribed a NEVER ENDING medication. It bothers
me because I care about cats. Insult me all you like.

>There's nothing at the link I gave that says the possible
>animal side effects were extrapolated from human
>side effects. You want me to just take your word for
>that, and if I don't, then you insult me again. Have a
>nice day.

So your point it, you are afraid of potential side effects. Anything else?
Jesus.

cybercat
June 7th 09, 12:44 AM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 6, 2:14 pm, "cyberpurrs" > wrote:
> ...
> You've been told by experts that this is the right thing to do for your
> cat,
> in your cat's situation. Now what the **** do you want from us?

>I want you and Matthew to go away.

Tough ****. This is Usenet.

>I want the others to
>explain why it is wise to give a cat never-ending medication
>that may cause these side effects:

>liver damage
>nervous system damage
>loss of appetite
>vomiting
>anemia

Right. And you are asking any asshole with a computer who subscribes to this
group, when you already have the opinion of your VET and Phil, who has saved
many of our animal's with his advice and experience, for WHAT REASON?

Phil is right. You're stupid.

cybercat
June 7th 09, 12:45 AM
"Matthew" > wrote
> So again I understand asking questions. It is a scary thing to have a
> person, friend, family member or pet go through long term problems. But
> THEY HAVE EXPLAINED BUT YOU ARE NOT LISTENING. STAY THE "F" off the
> internet blogs and if you have questions that your vet is not explaining
> to you or that you can't get from the forum. CALL ANOTHER VET FOR A
> SECOND OPINION.

Asshole has been told all this. I guess he does not want to PAY a vet for a
second opinion, so he's here repeating himself.

Matthew[_3_]
June 7th 09, 05:13 AM
"calvin" >


I have a question? Are you what they consider mentally handicapped or in
better terms I think the polite way is that person is slow.

Calvin
June 7th 09, 02:46 PM
On Jun 7, 12:13*am, "Matthew" >
wrote:
> "calvin" >
> I have a question? *Are you what they consider mentally handicapped or in
> better terms I think the polite way is that person is slow.

short term medication - side effects may be tolerable

long term medication - side effects may build up, month
after month, year after year

When you address that concern, I may begin to have
respect for your advice.

Phil P.
June 7th 09, 03:04 PM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 6, 6:03 pm, "Phil P." > wrote:
> ... you're too obtuse to be entrusted with a cat.

>I have nine cats, and have been taking cats to this vet
>for about a decade. This is the first time he has
>prescribed a NEVER ENDING medication.

That's probably because this is the first time you've had a cat with a NEVER
ENDING DISEASE.


It bothers
>me because I care about cats.

I understand that. That's why I've spent so much time trying to get through
your thick skull. Caring is good- but you're being obtuse to the point of
idiotic.


> Insult me all you like.

Think of an insult as a slap to snap you out of a delusion.


>There's nothing at the link I gave that says the possible
animal side effects were extrapolated from human
>side effects.

The link you posted didn't give *any* references to the source of their
information. The *two* highly credible ****VETERINARY**** sources that I
gave you *both* said the adverse effects that were mentioned on the site you
provided were *only* reported in *humans* - not in cats. *Both* of the
highly credible ****VETERINARY**** sources I provided clearly stated *no*
adverse effects were reported in cats when given orally. Both of the sources
I gave you are used in every veterinary college in the United States if not
the entire world.



>You want me to just take your word for
>that,

Its not simply my word. Did you understand the references I cited or do you
have a reading comprehension problem, also?


>and if I don't, then you insult me again.


I'm sorry to say I think your stupidity will kill your cat long before FeLV.

Matthew[_3_]
June 7th 09, 04:25 PM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 7, 12:13 am, "Matthew" >
wrote:
> "calvin" >
> I have a question? Are you what they consider mentally handicapped or in
> better terms I think the polite way is that person is slow.

short term medication - side effects may be tolerable

long term medication - side effects may build up, month
after month, year after year

When you address that concern, I may begin to have
respect for your advice.


I already have in an above post. Now I know you are "slow"

Calvin
June 7th 09, 04:45 PM
Mr. P, I wasn't asking why the cat was prescribed never
ending medication, I was expressing concern that any
harm that might come from it would build up indefinitely.
You're smart, no doubt, but you don't seem to be able any
better than anyone else to grasp the point I'm trying to make
about that. Take liver damage, for example. I won't be able
to see that it is happening, nor will the vet. So the damage goes
on and on, if there is liver damage. That's just an example.

You want me just to think there is no possible side effect,
no matter how long the medication goes on. That seems
naive, to say the least. Everything has side effects.
Maybe it won't be liver damage, or nervous system damage,
or anemia, but you can be sure it will be something.

Thanks to everyone for your advice. The cat will receive
interferon for at least the week following his neutering.
After that, I don't know what to do, except look for more
information on the internet, and get a second opinion.

cybercat
June 7th 09, 04:45 PM
"calvin" > wrote :

>short term medication - side effects may be tolerable

>long term medication - side effects may build up, month
>after month, year after year

>When you address that concern, I may begin to have
>respect for your advice.

You need the advice of ANOTHER VET, asshole. You don't want to pay for it,
and you're PDC as hell, so here you are repeating yourself.

lol

You're so stupid it's actually funny.

cybercat
June 7th 09, 04:56 PM
"Matthew" > wrote
> I already have in an above post. Now I know you are "slow"

But he does love his cat. Better a bonehead with love in his heart than a
genius that does not care.

cybercat
June 7th 09, 05:08 PM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
> Mr. P, I wasn't asking why the cat was prescribed never
> ending medication, I was expressing concern that any
> harm that might come from it would build up indefinitely.
> You're smart, no doubt, but you don't seem to be able any
> better than anyone else to grasp the point

Your cat will die without it, and sooner than if you do not use it. So it
does not matter if in the end some of the side effects occur. They all die
eventuallty. You have to treat her with this so she does not die now.

Matthew[_3_]
June 7th 09, 05:10 PM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
> Mr. P, I wasn't asking why the cat was prescribed never
> ending medication, I was expressing concern that any
> harm that might come from it would build up indefinitely.
> You're smart, no doubt, but you don't seem to be able any
> better than anyone else to grasp the point I'm trying to make
> about that. Take liver damage, for example. I won't be able
> to see that it is happening, nor will the vet. So the damage goes
> on and on, if there is liver damage. That's just an example.
>
WRONG IT IS CALLED BLOOD WORK AND A FULL WORK UP.

NO YOU CAN'T GRASP THE CONCEPT. WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS. MOST OF US HAVE OR
HAVE HAD OR DEALT WITH FURBALLS THAT HAVE HAD OR HAVE LONG TERM EFFECTS.
DID YOU EVEN READ MY RESPONSE ABOUT MY CAT WHO IS DIABETIC AND EPILEPTIC OR
ABOUT MY CAT WHO HAS HYPERTHYROIDISM IN ANY OF MY OTHER POST.

You weren't here but I had posted about my cat fight when he was posioned
in the pet food recall. I KNOW WHAT ALL THIS MEANS


> You want me just to think there is no possible side effect,
> no matter how long the medication goes on. That seems
> naive, to say the least. Everything has side effects.
> Maybe it won't be liver damage, or nervous system damage,
> or anemia, but you can be sure it will be something.
>

WHERE IN THE HELL DID I OR ANYONE SAY THAT. <Driving to the dollar store
for crayons and posterboard> AND A NICE WAY TO LOOK AT IT. EVER HEARD OF
POSTIVE THINKING

> Thanks to everyone for your advice. The cat will receive
> interferon for at least the week following his neutering.
> After that, I don't know what to do, except look for more
> information on the internet, and get a second opinion.
>

TAKE THE INTERNET BLOGS AND THROW IT OUT THE ****ING DOOR FOR THE LAST TIME.

FINALLY YOU GET IT TAKE YOUR CAT TO ANOTHER VET IF YOUR TRUSTED VET IS NOT
TRUSTED ANYMORE


GOOD LORD You are the first to ever give me a headache in all years of
being on the internet

Matthew[_3_]
June 7th 09, 05:10 PM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matthew" > wrote
>> I already have in an above post. Now I know you are "slow"
>
> But he does love his cat. Better a bonehead with love in his heart than a
> genius that does not care.
>

That type of love is scary

spot
June 7th 09, 05:23 PM
Seems to me cancer is more the concern than the stupid side effects that
may or may not ever show up.

do the right thing and treat the cat and give it a chance or put the
poor thing to sleep before the cancer gets severe and it's in pain.

You are being an idiot there is only two options treat it or put it to
sleep. Make up your mind it's not going to get any easier.

Celeste

Phil P.
June 7th 09, 05:50 PM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
> Mr. P, I wasn't asking why the cat was prescribed never
> ending medication, I was expressing concern that any
> harm that might come from it would build up indefinitely.

First of all, the oral 30 IU dose is not much more than a cat with an normal
immune system would produce. Second, there is no build-up because the
interferon you're giving your cat is completely destroyed by gastric acid in
the stomach. So there is no liver damage or any other kind of damage. Oral
interferon works by binding to mucosal receptors in the oropharynx where it
triggers the release of cytokines. The cytokines, not the interferon,
circulate through the system and stimulate the cat's immune system. Do you
understand that?


> You're smart, no doubt, but you don't seem to be able any
> better than anyone else to grasp the point I'm trying to make
> about that.

I fully understand the point you're trying to make. Your point just has no
merit and its just not based on facts or any evidence.



Take liver damage, for example. I won't be able
> to see that it is happening, nor will the vet. So the damage goes
> on and on, if there is liver damage. That's just an example.

You're not grasping the *fact* that for the last 12-15 years thousands of
FeLV+ cats have been given oral interferon for years- usually the rest of
their*lives*- and *no* adverse effects of *any kind* have *ever* been
reported.


1) "When used orally in cats, adverse effects have apparently not yet been
noted." (Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook)

2) "Adverse effects have not been reported in animals." (Saunders Handbook
of Veterinary Drugs)

What part of those references don't you understand?


> You want me just to think there is no possible side effect,
> no matter how long the medication goes on. That seems
> naive, to say the least.

No- its documented *fact* from highly credible sources.


Everything has side effects.
> Maybe it won't be liver damage, or nervous system damage,
> or anemia, but you can be sure it will be something.


Do you think you know better than Plumb's and Saunder's? Seems like you
think you do.


>
> Thanks to everyone for your advice. The cat will receive
> interferon for at least the week following his neutering.
> After that, I don't know what to do, except look for more
> information on the internet,

Here's a better idea: Buy the fuking books:

http://www.amazon.com/Plumbs-Veterinary-Drug-Handbook-Desk/dp/081380518X

http://www.amazon.com/Saunders-Handbook-Veterinary-Papich-DACVCP/dp/0721673872


> and get a second opinion.

What will you do when the second vet tells you the same thing?


Trying to get through your think skull is like trying to hammer a rubber
nail through a plank. I know I'm hitting the nail on the head- but it just
bends.

Calvin
June 7th 09, 06:11 PM
On Jun 7, 12:23*pm, spot > wrote:
> Seems to me cancer is more the concern than the stupid side effects that
> may or may not ever show up.
>
> do the right thing and treat the cat and give it a chance or put the
> poor thing to sleep before the cancer gets severe and it's in pain.
>
> You are being an idiot there is only two options treat it or put it to
> sleep. *Make up your mind it's not going to get any easier.

The cat is feeling fine. He has great quality of life.
He eats like a hog, far more than any of my other
cats. He is unbelievably affectionate, and he purrs
whenever I touch him. He is not 'sick'. The vet
said he tested positive for non-cancerous leukemia
(apparently that's not a contradiction in terms).

The only reason he was given the test was because
he was a stray tomcat that I took to the vet to be
examined before neutering. He had some skin and
fur issues, and for that and other possible infections
he was prescribed two-a-day antibiotics for ten days.
He has also had ear mite treatments, de-worming,
a rabies shot, and a flea treatment. He is very much
improved, and is to be neutered tomorrow.

There is no way I would consider killing a cat simply
because he tested positive for something. If and when
he appears to be suffering, that is the time for thinking
about euthanasia. He's not suffering at the present,
but is healthy and happy, to all appearances.

Calvin
June 7th 09, 06:19 PM
On Jun 7, 12:50*pm, "Phil P." > wrote:
> "calvin" > wrote:
>
> > Mr. P, I wasn't asking why the cat was prescribed never
> > ending medication, I was expressing concern that any
> > harm that might come from it would build up indefinitely.
>
> First of all, the oral 30 IU dose is not much more than a cat with an normal
> immune system would produce. Second, there is no build-up because the
> interferon you're giving your cat is completely destroyed by gastric acid in
> the stomach. So there is no liver damage or any other kind of damage. Oral
> interferon works by binding to mucosal receptors in the oropharynx where it
> triggers the release of cytokines. *The cytokines, not the interferon,
> circulate through the system and stimulate the cat's immune system. Do you
> understand that?
>
> > You're smart, no doubt, but you don't seem to be able any
> > better than anyone else to grasp the point I'm trying to make
> > about that.
>
> I fully understand the point you're trying to make. Your point just has no
> merit and its just not based on facts or any evidence.
>
> > Take liver damage, for example. *I won't be able
> > to see that it is happening, nor will the vet. *So the damage goes
> > on and on, if there is liver damage. *That's just an example.
>
> You're not grasping the *fact* that for the last 12-15 years thousands of
> FeLV+ cats have been given oral interferon for years- usually *the rest of
> their*lives*- and *no* adverse effects of *any kind* have *ever* been
> reported.
>
> 1) "When used orally in cats, adverse effects have apparently not yet been
> noted." (Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook)
>
> 2) "Adverse effects have not been reported in animals." (Saunders Handbook
> of Veterinary Drugs)
>
> What part of those references don't you understand?
>
> > You want me just to think there is no possible side effect,
> > no matter how long the medication goes on. *That seems
> > naive, to say the least.
>
> No- its documented *fact* from highly credible sources.
>
> > Everything has side effects.
> > Maybe it won't be liver damage, or nervous system damage,
> > or anemia, but you can be sure it will be something.
>
> Do you think you know better than Plumb's and Saunder's? Seems like you
> think you do.
>
> > Thanks to everyone for your advice. *The cat will receive
> > interferon for at least the week following his neutering.
> > After that, I don't know what to do, except look for more
> > information on the internet,
>
> Here's a better idea: *Buy the fuking books:
>
> *http://www.amazon.com/Plumbs-Veterinary-Drug-Handbook-Desk/dp/081380518X
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Saunders-Handbook-Veterinary-Papich-DACVCP/dp/0...
>
> > and get a second opinion.
>
> What will you do when the second vet tells you the same thing?
>
> Trying to get through your think skull is like trying to hammer a rubber
> nail through a plank. I know I'm hitting the nail on the head- but it just
> bends.

All right. I accept everything you have said, except
the insults, which always could be done without.

Calvin
June 7th 09, 10:05 PM
On Jun 7, 10:04*am, "Phil P." > wrote:
> I'm sorry to say I think your stupidity will kill your cat long before FeLV.

The only thing I've done is reverse the interferon schedule
from 7-days-on/7-days-off, to 7-days-off/7-days-on.
The second period of 7-days-on begins in two days.
I doubt that the week's delay in starting it is going to kill the cat.
There's a difference between discussing and acting.

Phil P.
June 9th 09, 05:11 PM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 7, 10:04 am, "Phil P." > wrote:
> I'm sorry to say I think your stupidity will kill your cat long before
FeLV.

>The only thing I've done is reverse the interferon schedule
>from 7-days-on/7-days-off, to 7-days-off/7-days-on.
>The second period of 7-days-on begins in two days.
>I doubt that the week's delay in starting it is going to kill the cat.
>There's a difference between discussing and acting.

Delaying beginning IFN therapy for a week might not be critical if the
infection has already reached the bone marrow. However, a week's delay in
the early stages of infection might make the difference between
extinguishing an infection or developing a persistent infection for life.
Even though the delay might not be critical, the reason for the delay is.
You delayed treatment because you stubbornly clung to bogus information in
the face of incontrovertible facts to the contrary.

Calvin
June 9th 09, 07:00 PM
On Jun 9, 12:11*pm, "Phil P." > wrote:
> "calvin" > wrote:
> > On Jun 7, 10:04 am, "Phil P." > wrote:
> > > I'm sorry to say I think your stupidity will kill your cat long before
> > > FeLV.
> >The only thing I've done is reverse the interferon schedule
> >from 7-days-on/7-days-off, to 7-days-off/7-days-on.
> >The second period of 7-days-on begins in two days.
> >I doubt that the week's delay in starting it is going to kill the cat.
> >There's a difference between discussing and acting.
>
> Delaying beginning IFN therapy for a week might not be critical if the
> infection has already reached the bone marrow. *However, a week's delay in
> the early stages of infection might make the difference between
> extinguishing an infection or developing a persistent infection for life.
> Even though the delay might not be critical, the reason for the delay is.
> You delayed treatment because you stubbornly clung to bogus information in
> the face of incontrovertible facts to the contrary.

Well, I was referring to the delay during the first seven
days of antibiotics. Then the interferon was started
and continued for seven days. The antibiotics concluded
during that period. The following seven days off of the
interferon ended with the cat's neutering yesterday,
and the next seven days on inteferon began today after
I brought him home. That's just to put this back into
perspective.

I'm glad to have seen the good results of the antibiotics
on the cat's skin and fur without having had to wonder
whether the good was done by antibiotics or interferon.

I didn't stubbornly cling to anything. I just wanted to be
sure that I wasn't to be giving the cat something that
would have bad side effects, and I didn't see any reason
why what I read would have been a lie. I didn't know you
from a bump in the road. I finally gave in and did what
you recommended, albeit seven days late; and I recently
capitulated and accepted everything you had said.

Yet you can't resist adding more insults. It appears
that you have some hostility issues.

I'd like to ask a couple of more questions about interferon,
and if you choose to answer them, please do so without
insults:

If it is so harmless, why is it given only during alternate
seven-day periods?

Since this cat eats like a hog, I can be sure that if I put
the interferon on the top of his food he will get it all. He
always cleans his first plate. Is it ok to give the interferon
this way, or should I be squirting it into his mouth directly?

Matthew[_3_]
June 9th 09, 09:18 PM
Phil this guy must be slow or have some other problem. This is the first
person in all the years that gives me a headache


"Phil P." > wrote in message
...
>
> "calvin" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Jun 7, 10:04 am, "Phil P." > wrote:
>> I'm sorry to say I think your stupidity will kill your cat long before
> FeLV.
>
>>The only thing I've done is reverse the interferon schedule
>>from 7-days-on/7-days-off, to 7-days-off/7-days-on.
>>The second period of 7-days-on begins in two days.
>>I doubt that the week's delay in starting it is going to kill the cat.
>>There's a difference between discussing and acting.
>
> Delaying beginning IFN therapy for a week might not be critical if the
> infection has already reached the bone marrow. However, a week's delay in
> the early stages of infection might make the difference between
> extinguishing an infection or developing a persistent infection for life.
> Even though the delay might not be critical, the reason for the delay is.
> You delayed treatment because you stubbornly clung to bogus information in
> the face of incontrovertible facts to the contrary.
>
>

MLB
June 9th 09, 09:39 PM
Matthew wrote:
> Phil this guy must be slow or have some other problem. This is the first
> person in all the years that gives me a headache
>
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ...
>> "calvin" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> On Jun 7, 10:04 am, "Phil P." > wrote:
>>> I'm sorry to say I think your stupidity will kill your cat long before
>> FeLV.
>>
>>> The only thing I've done is reverse the interferon schedule
>> >from 7-days-on/7-days-off, to 7-days-off/7-days-on.
>>> The second period of 7-days-on begins in two days.
>>> I doubt that the week's delay in starting it is going to kill the cat.
>>> There's a difference between discussing and acting.
>> Delaying beginning IFN therapy for a week might not be critical if the
>> infection has already reached the bone marrow. However, a week's delay in
>> the early stages of infection might make the difference between
>> extinguishing an infection or developing a persistent infection for life.
>> Even though the delay might not be critical, the reason for the delay is.
>> You delayed treatment because you stubbornly clung to bogus information in
>> the face of incontrovertible facts to the contrary.
>>
>>
>
>
er think he might be trolling?

Calvin
June 9th 09, 09:53 PM
On Jun 9, 4:39*pm, MLB > wrote:
> er think he might be trolling?

So far I've spent $241 on vet bills for this stray tomcat.
Expensive trolling, wouldn't you say?

Matthew[_3_]
June 9th 09, 11:14 PM
When you spend over $10,000 than you can comment about expensive. That was
the cost to save my Rumble and worth every freaking cent.

"calvin" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 9, 4:39 pm, MLB > wrote:
> er think he might be trolling?

So far I've spent $241 on vet bills for this stray tomcat.
Expensive trolling, wouldn't you say?

Calvin
June 9th 09, 11:58 PM
On Jun 9, 6:14*pm, "Matthew" > wrote:
> "calvin" > wrote:
> > So far I've spent $241 on vet bills for this stray tomcat.
> > Expensive trolling, wouldn't you say?

> When you spend over $10,000 than you can comment
> about expensive. That was the cost to save my Rumble
> and worth every freaking cent.

You don't seem able to grasp the point of anything I say.
I wasn't talking about lifetime vet bills and other cat
expenses. I doubt if you would want to get into that,
or maybe you would because you might think other
people would be impressed by you.

I was talking about money spent during the past three
weeks on a stray tomcat, which would make for
expensive trolling.

Have a nice life. I'm not going to respond to anything
else that you write (or 'cybercat' either, or MLB).

Phil P.
June 10th 09, 07:32 AM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 9, 12:11 pm, "Phil P." > wrote:

>I didn't stubbornly cling to anything. I just wanted to be
>sure

You should have been sure after I posted excerpts on the safety of IFN from
the 2 top veterinary drug handbooks in your first thread.



> Yet you can't resist adding more insults.


I know. I tried really hard to resist- but its just too hard to resist
insulting someone as obtuse as you. I'm sure you're used to it.


It appears
> that you have some hostility issues.


Yeah, I know. I've got to try to be more tolerant of obtuse and obstinate
people no matter how aggravating they are. Its on my "to do" list.



> If it is so harmless, why is it given only during alternate
> seven-day periods?

7 on/7 off has nothing to do with safety. This form of interferon is derived
from human leukocytes, its theroretically possible that cats may develop
anti-IFN antibodies that could inactivate the IFN. However, this has only
occurred in some cats receiving high doses (>50,000 IU) SC, IM, or IP.
Anti-IFN antibody production as *never* been documented in cats receiving
low, oral doses-- even cats receiving IFN orally continiously.


> Since this cat eats like a hog, I can be sure that if I put
> the interferon on the top of his food he will get it all. He
> always cleans his first plate. Is it ok to give the interferon
> this way, or should I be squirting it into his mouth directly?

Yes- administer the IFN directly into his mouth. *Do not* mix it in the
food. Once again, "Oral interferon works by binding to mucosal receptors in
the oropharynx where it triggers the release of cytokines. The cytokines,
not the interferon, circulate through the system and stimulate the cat's
immune system." If you mix the IFN in the food, it will be digested with the
food and destroyed. The dose is so low, that the IFN must come in direct
contact with the mucosal surfaces in the oropharynx in order to be absorbed.

Calvin
June 10th 09, 01:35 PM
On Jun 10, 2:32*am, "Phil P." > wrote:
> "calvin" > wrote:
> On Jun 9, 12:11 pm, "Phil P." > wrote:
> >I didn't stubbornly cling to anything. *I just wanted to be
> >sure
> You should have been sure after I posted excerpts on the safety of IFN from
> the 2 top veterinary drug handbooks in your first thread.
> > Yet you can't resist adding more insults.
>
> I know. I tried really hard to resist- but its just too hard to resist
> insulting someone as obtuse as you. I'm sure you're used to it.

It was an act of non-obtuseness to declare that
I accept everything that you have said. One would have
thought the insults would have stopped at that point.

> > It appears that you have some hostility issues.
>
> Yeah, I know. I've got to try to be more tolerant of obtuse and obstinate
> people no matter how aggravating they are. Its on my "to do" list.
>
> > If it is so harmless, why is it given only during alternate
> > seven-day periods?
>
> 7 on/7 off has nothing to do with safety. This form of interferon is derived
> from human leukocytes, its theroretically possible that cats may develop
> anti-IFN antibodies that could inactivate the IFN. However, this has only
> occurred in some cats receiving high doses (>50,000 IU) SC, IM, or IP.
> Anti-IFN antibody production as *never* been documented in cats receiving
> low, oral doses-- even cats receiving IFN orally continiously.
>
> > Since this cat eats like a hog, I can be sure that if I put
> > the interferon on the top of his food he will get it all. *He
> > always cleans his first plate. *Is it ok to give the interferon
> > this way, or should I be squirting it into his mouth directly?
>
> Yes- administer the IFN directly into his mouth. *Do not* mix it in the
> food. *Once again, "Oral interferon works by binding to mucosal receptors in
> the oropharynx where it triggers the release of cytokines. *The cytokines,
> not the interferon, circulate through the system and stimulate the cat's
> immune system." If you mix the IFN in the food, it will be digested with the
> food and destroyed. The dose is so low, that the IFN must come in direct
> contact with the mucosal surfaces in the oropharynx in order to be absorbed.

Thank you. You said that as if I was just automatically
supposed to have known what "Oral interferon works by binding
to mucosal receptors in the oropharynx where it triggers
the release of cytokines" meant.

This means that none of the interferon given so far has had
any effect, and I'm starting over today from square one.
Better to know the truth now than never, though, and one
more insult might have kept me from ever asking the
question (eg. I'll never ask 'Matthew' a question).

Matthew[_3_]
June 10th 09, 03:38 PM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 10, 2:32 am, "Phil P." > wrote:
> "calvin" > wrote:
> On Jun 9, 12:11 pm, "Phil P." > wrote:
> >I didn't stubbornly cling to anything. I just wanted to be
> >sure
> You should have been sure after I posted excerpts on the safety of IFN
> from
> the 2 top veterinary drug handbooks in your first thread.
> > Yet you can't resist adding more insults.
>
> I know. I tried really hard to resist- but its just too hard to resist
> insulting someone as obtuse as you. I'm sure you're used to it.

It was an act of non-obtuseness to declare that
I accept everything that you have said. One would have
thought the insults would have stopped at that point.

> > It appears that you have some hostility issues.
>
> Yeah, I know. I've got to try to be more tolerant of obtuse and obstinate
> people no matter how aggravating they are. Its on my "to do" list.
>
> > If it is so harmless, why is it given only during alternate
> > seven-day periods?
>
> 7 on/7 off has nothing to do with safety. This form of interferon is
> derived
> from human leukocytes, its theroretically possible that cats may develop
> anti-IFN antibodies that could inactivate the IFN. However, this has only
> occurred in some cats receiving high doses (>50,000 IU) SC, IM, or IP.
> Anti-IFN antibody production as *never* been documented in cats receiving
> low, oral doses-- even cats receiving IFN orally continiously.
>
> > Since this cat eats like a hog, I can be sure that if I put
> > the interferon on the top of his food he will get it all. He
> > always cleans his first plate. Is it ok to give the interferon
> > this way, or should I be squirting it into his mouth directly?
>
> Yes- administer the IFN directly into his mouth. *Do not* mix it in the
> food. Once again, "Oral interferon works by binding to mucosal receptors
> in
> the oropharynx where it triggers the release of cytokines. The cytokines,
> not the interferon, circulate through the system and stimulate the cat's
> immune system." If you mix the IFN in the food, it will be digested with
> the
> food and destroyed. The dose is so low, that the IFN must come in direct
> contact with the mucosal surfaces in the oropharynx in order to be
> absorbed.

Thank you. You said that as if I was just automatically
supposed to have known what "Oral interferon works by binding
to mucosal receptors in the oropharynx where it triggers
the release of cytokines" meant.

This means that none of the interferon given so far has had
any effect, and I'm starting over today from square one.
Better to know the truth now than never, though, and one
more insult might have kept me from ever asking the
question (eg. I'll never ask 'Matthew' a question).


Why just because I and others need to break out the etch a sketch and the
crayons for you.

THANK YOU My head starts to hurt everytime I see your display name.

I knew you could not resist to say something

MLB
June 10th 09, 06:32 PM
calvin wrote:
> On Jun 9, 6:14 pm, "Matthew" > wrote:
>> "calvin" > wrote:
>>> So far I've spent $241 on vet bills for this stray tomcat.
>>> Expensive trolling, wouldn't you say?
>
>> When you spend over $10,000 than you can comment
>> about expensive. That was the cost to save my Rumble
>> and worth every freaking cent.
>
> You don't seem able to grasp the point of anything I say.
> I wasn't talking about lifetime vet bills and other cat
> expenses. I doubt if you would want to get into that,
> or maybe you would because you might think other
> people would be impressed by you.
>
> I was talking about money spent during the past three
> weeks on a stray tomcat, which would make for
> expensive trolling.
>
> Have a nice life. I'm not going to respond to anything
> else that you write (or 'cybercat' either, or MLB).
>

Thank Heaven for small favors! MLB

cybercat
June 10th 09, 07:59 PM
"Matthew" > wrote
> I knew you could not resist to say something

psssst ... ocd

Matthew[_3_]
June 10th 09, 08:13 PM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matthew" > wrote
>> I knew you could not resist to say something
>
> psssst ... ocd
>

Pssst Fracked in the head ;-)

Phil P.
June 11th 09, 02:12 PM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 10, 2:32 am, "Phil P." > wrote:
>
>> > Since this cat eats like a hog, I can be sure that if I put
>> > the interferon on the top of his food he will get it all. He
>> > always cleans his first plate. Is it ok to give the interferon
>> > this way, or should I be squirting it into his mouth directly?

>> Yes- administer the IFN directly into his mouth. *Do not* mix it in the
>> food. Once again, "Oral interferon works by binding to mucosal receptors
in
>> the oropharynx where it triggers the release of cytokines. The cytokines,
>> not the interferon, circulate through the system and stimulate the cat's
>> immune system." If you mix the IFN in the food, it will be digested with
the
>> food and destroyed. The dose is so low, that the IFN must come in direct
>> contact with the mucosal surfaces in the oropharynx in order to be
absorbed.

> Thank you. You said that as if I was just automatically
> supposed to have known what "Oral interferon works by binding
> to mucosal receptors in the oropharynx where it triggers
> the release of cytokines" meant.


Silly me- I assumed you had a basic understanding of simple high school
biology. OK, I'll try to explain this in terms you should understand: The
outer dry surface of the body is called "skin". The moist surfaces of the
mouth and throat are called mucus membrane or "mucosa" because it secretes
mucus. The receptors to which interferon binds are located in the mucosa at
the back of the mouth and beginning of the throat. Are you still with me?
Mixing interferon in food would have the same effect as gargling with
mouthwash while there's food in your mouth. With food in your mouth, very
little mouthwash would reach the mucus membrane of your mouth where the
germs are. You want the interferon to come in direct contact with the
mucosal surfaces in the mouth and throat. OK?

Calvin
June 11th 09, 02:34 PM
On Jun 11, 9:12*am, "Phil P." > wrote:
> "calvin" > wrote:
> > Thank you. *You said that as if I was just automatically
> > supposed to have known what "Oral interferon works by binding
> > to mucosal receptors in the oropharynx where it triggers
> > the release of cytokines" meant.
>
> Silly me- I assumed you had a basic understanding of simple high school
> biology. *OK, I'll try to explain this in terms you should understand: The
> outer dry surface of the body is called "skin". *The moist surfaces of the
> mouth and throat are called mucus membrane or "mucosa" because it secretes
> mucus. The receptors to which interferon binds are located in the mucosa at
> the back of the mouth and beginning of the throat. *Are you still with me?
> Mixing interferon in food would have the same effect as gargling with
> mouthwash while there's food in your mouth. With food in your mouth, very
> little mouthwash would reach the mucus membrane of your mouth where the
> germs are. You want the interferon to come in direct contact with the
> mucosal surfaces in the mouth and throat. *OK?

Okay, and I will ask no more questions. Obviously you know
very much about cats, but it would be better to find answers
from someone who is not so hostile and insulting, and from some
place other than this forum, which has declined into negativity
during the past few years since I was last productively involved
with it. Best wishes to you all, though.

Matthew[_3_]
June 11th 09, 04:01 PM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 11, 9:12 am, "Phil P." > wrote:
> "calvin" > wrote:
> > Thank you. You said that as if I was just automatically
> > supposed to have known what "Oral interferon works by binding
> > to mucosal receptors in the oropharynx where it triggers
> > the release of cytokines" meant.
>
> Silly me- I assumed you had a basic understanding of simple high school
> biology. OK, I'll try to explain this in terms you should understand: The
> outer dry surface of the body is called "skin". The moist surfaces of the
> mouth and throat are called mucus membrane or "mucosa" because it secretes
> mucus. The receptors to which interferon binds are located in the mucosa
> at
> the back of the mouth and beginning of the throat. Are you still with me?
> Mixing interferon in food would have the same effect as gargling with
> mouthwash while there's food in your mouth. With food in your mouth, very
> little mouthwash would reach the mucus membrane of your mouth where the
> germs are. You want the interferon to come in direct contact with the
> mucosal surfaces in the mouth and throat. OK?

Okay, and I will ask no more questions. Obviously you know
very much about cats, but it would be better to find answers
from someone who is not so hostile and insulting, and from some
place other than this forum, which has declined into negativity
during the past few years since I was last productively involved
with it. Best wishes to you all, though.



Hope your cats pulls through.and the person you talk to has plenty of
aspirin plus crayons

And you posted 1 time in October of 2007 and 6 times in June of 2008 talking
about your cat dying suddenly. You have never been productive in this
group. If you had been Phil would have known how to deal with you

Calvin
June 11th 09, 04:14 PM
On Jun 11, 11:01*am, "Matthew" >
wrote:
> And you posted 1 time in October of 2007 and 6 times in June of 2008 talking
> about your cat dying suddenly. *You have never been productive in this
> group. *If you had been Phil would have known how to deal with you.

2005 2006

Matthew[_3_]
June 11th 09, 04:53 PM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 11, 11:01 am, "Matthew" >
wrote:
> And you posted 1 time in October of 2007 and 6 times in June of 2008
> talking
> about your cat dying suddenly. You have never been productive in this
> group. If you had been Phil would have known how to deal with you.

2005 2006

I was here under a different addy also than. Phil would have definitely
know how to deal with you if it was that long ago. SO would I

Calvin
June 11th 09, 05:13 PM
On Jun 11, 11:53*am, "Matthew" >
wrote:
> "calvin" > wrote:
> On Jun 11, 11:01 am, "Matthew" >
> wrote:
>
> > And you posted 1 time in October of 2007 and 6 times in June of 2008
> > talking
> > about your cat dying suddenly. You have never been productive in this
> > group. If you had been Phil would have known how to deal with you.
>
> 2005 2006
>
> I was here under a different addy also than. * Phil would have definitely
> know how to deal with you if it was that long ago. *SO would I

So you're claiming that I'm lying about posting here
in 2005 and 2006? If you could look up posts from
2007 and 2008, why can't you look up posts from
2005 and 2006?

Matthew[_3_]
June 11th 09, 05:38 PM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 11, 11:53 am, "Matthew" >
wrote:
> "calvin" > wrote:
> On Jun 11, 11:01 am, "Matthew" >
> wrote:
>
> > And you posted 1 time in October of 2007 and 6 times in June of 2008
> > talking
> > about your cat dying suddenly. You have never been productive in this
> > group. If you had been Phil would have known how to deal with you.
>
> 2005 2006
>
> I was here under a different addy also than. Phil would have definitely
> know how to deal with you if it was that long ago. SO would I

So you're claiming that I'm lying about posting here
in 2005 and 2006? If you could look up posts from
2007 and 2008, why can't you look up posts from
2005 and 2006?

No I said you were never productive there is a difference But I forgot to
spell it out in crayons for you.

Plus I already you already proved you were a liar. You said you would not
respond to me cybercat or MLB again. Remember this just a couple days ago
"Have a nice life. I'm not going to respond to anything else that you write
(or 'cybercat' either, or MLB)."

But since that I do know how to use the internet properly. I did find Calvin
Rice.

The only thing I claim about you is that you can cause a head ache from a
1000 miles away and that you are SLOW.

And After looking at past. The funny thing is you actually took the groups
advice about Jasmine.

What happened you weren't "slow" back than. That is a rhetorical question
not to be answered

Calvin
June 11th 09, 06:09 PM
On Jun 11, 12:38*pm, "Matthew" >
wrote:
> "calvin" > wrote:
> On Jun 11, 11:53 am, "Matthew" >
> wrote:
> > "calvin" > wrote:
> > On Jun 11, 11:01 am, "Matthew" >
> > wrote:
> > > And you posted 1 time in October of 2007 and 6 times in June of 2008
> > > talking
> > > about your cat dying suddenly. You have never been productive in this
> > > group. If you had been Phil would have known how to deal with you.
>
> > 2005 2006
>
> > I was here under a different addy also than. Phil would have definitely
> > know how to deal with you if it was that long ago. SO would I
>
> So you're claiming that I'm lying about posting here
> in 2005 and 2006? *If you could look up posts from
> 2007 and 2008, why can't you look up posts from
> 2005 and 2006?
>
> *No I said you were never productive there is a difference *But I forgot to
> spell it out in crayons for you.
>
> *Plus I already you already proved you were a liar. *You said you would not
> respond to me cybercat or MLB again. *Remember this just a couple days ago
> "Have a nice life. *I'm not going to respond to anything else that you write
> (or 'cybercat' either, or MLB)."
>
> But since that I do know how to use the internet properly. I did find Calvin
> Rice.
>
> The only thing I claim about you is that you can cause a head ache from a
> 1000 miles away and that you are SLOW.
>
> And After looking at past. *The funny thing is you actually took the groups
> advice about Jasmine.
>
> What happened *you weren't "slow" back than. *That is a rhetorical question
> not to be answered

I have to respond when you post things that are not true.
You said I posted only in 2007 and 2008. I had to respond
to that. I don't know anything about 'Jasmine', by the way.

In 2005 someone I knew was going to have a pregnant cat
spayed. I was horrified that such a barbaric atrocity was
going to be done to a mother and her soon to be born kittens.
So I volunteered to take the cat and keep her in a back room
at my place, let her have her kittens, and then after the
kittens were weaned at the proper time, I would have the
mother spayed, and return her after she had recovered.
The mother was also cured by my vet of a couple of
afflictions.

Before the kittens were born I was called a murderer by
some people here, because they said some cats who were
already alive would lose their chances at homes because
I was bringing new cats into the world. One person said
I disgusted her. I was shown pictures of piles of euthanized
cats, and I was being blamed for it.

But no cats were denied homes because these kittens were
born. I kept them all, to go with my other four cats. I
couldn't inflict six new cats on the neighborhood, so in 2006
I had a fence built around a very large area of my backyard,
and then I made it cat proof. On winter nights I sleep
downstairs in a bed full of cats next to a nice radiator heater.

Here are their pictures:

http://www.geocities.com/ricewww/crcats.html

Phil P.
June 11th 09, 07:25 PM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 11, 9:12 am, "Phil P." > wrote:
> "calvin" > wrote:
>> > Thank you. You said that as if I was just automatically
>> > supposed to have known what "Oral interferon works by binding
>> > to mucosal receptors in the oropharynx where it triggers
>> > the release of cytokines" meant.
>
>> Silly me- I assumed you had a basic understanding of simple high school
>> biology. OK, I'll try to explain this in terms you should understand: The
>> outer dry surface of the body is called "skin". The moist surfaces of the
>> mouth and throat are called mucus membrane or "mucosa" because it
secretes
>> mucus. The receptors to which interferon binds are located in the mucosa
at
>> the back of the mouth and beginning of the throat. Are you still with me?
>> Mixing interferon in food would have the same effect as gargling with
>> mouthwash while there's food in your mouth. With food in your mouth, very
>> little mouthwash would reach the mucus membrane of your mouth where the
>> germs are. You want the interferon to come in direct contact with the
>> mucosal surfaces in the mouth and throat. OK?

> Okay, and I will ask no more questions. Obviously you know
> very much about cats, but it would be better to find answers
> from someone who is not so hostile and insulting, and from some
> place other than this forum, which has declined into negativity
> during the past few years since I was last productively involved
> with it. Best wishes to you all, though.

When you find that someone and someplace, you might get more cordial replies
if you don't ask the same question over and over after you've given an
answer and other information that's backed up with credible references.

Please convey my sympathies to your cat.

MLB
June 11th 09, 07:26 PM
calvin wrote:
> On Jun 11, 12:38 pm, "Matthew" >
> wrote:
>> "calvin" > wrote:
>> On Jun 11, 11:53 am, "Matthew" >
>> wrote:
>>> "calvin" > wrote:
>>> On Jun 11, 11:01 am, "Matthew" >
>>> wrote:
>>>> And you posted 1 time in October of 2007 and 6 times in June of 2008
>>>> talking
>>>> about your cat dying suddenly. You have never been productive in this
>>>> group. If you had been Phil would have known how to deal with you.
>>> 2005 2006
>>> I was here under a different addy also than. Phil would have definitely
>>> know how to deal with you if it was that long ago. SO would I
>> So you're claiming that I'm lying about posting here
>> in 2005 and 2006? If you could look up posts from
>> 2007 and 2008, why can't you look up posts from
>> 2005 and 2006?
>>
>> No I said you were never productive there is a difference But I forgot to
>> spell it out in crayons for you.
>>
>> Plus I already you already proved you were a liar. You said you would not
>> respond to me cybercat or MLB again. Remember this just a couple days ago
>> "Have a nice life. I'm not going to respond to anything else that you write
>> (or 'cybercat' either, or MLB)."
>>
>> But since that I do know how to use the internet properly. I did find Calvin
>> Rice.
>>
>> The only thing I claim about you is that you can cause a head ache from a
>> 1000 miles away and that you are SLOW.
>>
>> And After looking at past. The funny thing is you actually took the groups
>> advice about Jasmine.
>>
>> What happened you weren't "slow" back than. That is a rhetorical question
>> not to be answered
>
> I have to respond when you post things that are not true.
> You said I posted only in 2007 and 2008. I had to respond
> to that. I don't know anything about 'Jasmine', by the way.
>
> In 2005 someone I knew was going to have a pregnant cat
> spayed. I was horrified that such a barbaric atrocity was
> going to be done to a mother and her soon to be born kittens.
> So I volunteered to take the cat and keep her in a back room
> at my place, let her have her kittens, and then after the
> kittens were weaned at the proper time, I would have the
> mother spayed, and return her after she had recovered.
> The mother was also cured by my vet of a couple of
> afflictions.
>
> Before the kittens were born I was called a murderer by
> some people here, because they said some cats who were
> already alive would lose their chances at homes because
> I was bringing new cats into the world. One person said
> I disgusted her. I was shown pictures of piles of euthanized
> cats, and I was being blamed for it.
>
> But no cats were denied homes because these kittens were
> born. I kept them all, to go with my other four cats. I
> couldn't inflict six new cats on the neighborhood, so in 2006
> I had a fence built around a very large area of my backyard,
> and then I made it cat proof. On winter nights I sleep
> downstairs in a bed full of cats next to a nice radiator heater.
>
> Here are their pictures:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/ricewww/crcats.html



Like I said: Trolling! At least you got some of the attention you were
seeking. It could have been done in a better way. Purrs for your
cats. MLB

Calvin
June 12th 09, 06:19 AM
On Jun 11, 2:25*pm, "Phil P." > wrote:
> "calvin" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Jun 11, 9:12 am, "Phil P." > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "calvin" > wrote:
> >> > Thank you. You said that as if I was just automatically
> >> > supposed to have known what "Oral interferon works by binding
> >> > to mucosal receptors in the oropharynx where it triggers
> >> > the release of cytokines" meant.
>
> >> Silly me- I assumed you had a basic understanding of simple high school
> >> biology. OK, I'll try to explain this in terms you should understand: The
> >> outer dry surface of the body is called "skin". The moist surfaces of the
> >> mouth and throat are called mucus membrane or "mucosa" because it
> secretes
> >> mucus. The receptors to which interferon binds are located in the mucosa
> at
> >> the back of the mouth and beginning of the throat. Are you still with me?
> >> Mixing interferon in food would have the same effect as gargling with
> >> mouthwash while there's food in your mouth. With food in your mouth, very
> >> little mouthwash would reach the mucus membrane of your mouth where the
> >> germs are. You want the interferon to come in direct contact with the
> >> mucosal surfaces in the mouth and throat. OK?
> > Okay, and I will ask no more questions. *Obviously you know
> > very much about cats, but it would be better to find answers
> > from someone who is not so hostile and insulting, and from some
> > place other than this forum, which has declined into negativity
> > during the past few years since I was last productively involved
> > with it. *Best wishes to you all, though.
>
> When you find that someone and someplace, you might get more cordial replies
> if you don't ask the same question over and over after you've *given an
> answer and other information that's backed up with credible references.
>
> Please convey my sympathies to your cat.

One final snide, nasty insult, based on a false
assumption that I'm going to harm this stray tomcat,
who already has greatly benefitted by coming into
contact with me, just shows that you are an ego
dominated soul, not very pretty in a teacher.

Phil P.
June 12th 09, 09:59 AM
"calvin" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 11, 2:25 pm, "Phil P." > wrote:
> "calvin" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Jun 11, 9:12 am, "Phil P." > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>> > "calvin" > wrote:
>> >> > Thank you. You said that as if I was just automatically
>> >> > supposed to have known what "Oral interferon works by binding
>> >> > to mucosal receptors in the oropharynx where it triggers
>> >> > the release of cytokines" meant.
>
..> >> Silly me- I assumed you had a basic understanding of simple high
school
>> >> biology. OK, I'll try to explain this in terms you should understand:
The
>>> >> outer dry surface of the body is called "skin". The moist surfaces of
the
>> >> mouth and throat are called mucus membrane or "mucosa" because it
>> secretes
>> >> mucus. The receptors to which interferon binds are located in the
mucosa
>> at
>> >> the back of the mouth and beginning of the throat. Are you still with
me?
>> >> Mixing interferon in food would have the same effect as gargling with
..> >> mouthwash while there's food in your mouth. With food in your mouth,
very
>> >> little mouthwash would reach the mucus membrane of your mouth where
the
>> >> germs are. You want the interferon to come in direct contact with the
>> >> mucosal surfaces in the mouth and throat. OK?

>> > Okay, and I will ask no more questions. Obviously you know
>> > very much about cats, but it would be better to find answers
>> > from someone who is not so hostile and insulting, and from some
>> > place other than this forum, which has declined into negativity
>> > during the past few years since I was last productively involved
>> > with it. Best wishes to you all, though.
>
>> When you find that someone and someplace, you might get more cordial
replies
>> if you don't ask the same question over and over after you've given an
>> answer and other information that's backed up with credible references.
>
>> Please convey my sympathies to your cat.

> One final snide, nasty insult, based on a false
> assumption that I'm going to harm this stray tomcat,
> who already has greatly benefitted by coming into
> contact with me,

He would benefit a lot more if you weren't so obtuse.


just shows that you are an ego
> dominated soul,


Naa- I just have very little tolerance for obtuse and obstinate people.



> not very pretty in a teacher.

I'm a printer not a teacher.

Well, unless you have more questions about your cat that you'd like me to
answer over and over and over and over, that's about it for me.

Calvin
June 12th 09, 01:20 PM
On Jun 12, 4:59*am, "Phil P." > wrote:
> I'm a printer not a teacher.

Here you are a teacher.

> Well, unless you have more questions about your cat that you'd like me to
> answer over and over and over and over, that's about it for me.

A boring exercize that would nevertheless be instructive
to you would be to read my posts in this thread by
themselves one after another, without reading your or
anyone else's comments along with them. You would
see how harmless mine have been. The facts about this
whole exchange, including the previous thread, are:

1) I took your advice and started using interferon,
though seven days after the vet prescribed it.

2) I retroactively accepted everything you had told me.

3) I asked if I was doing the interferon right, was
corrected, and accepted the correction.

4) I objected to being insulted, but every time I objected,
was told how obtuse I am, even though the obtuseness
had been way back before I accepted everything you
said. You seem to interpret objecting to being insulted
as being more obtuse, so your insults will never end
until I shut up and accept them.

cybercat
June 12th 09, 05:09 PM
"Phil P." > wrote
> Naa- I just have very little tolerance for obtuse and obstinate people.
>

I think you have shown tremendous patience with Calvin, Phil. You have
mellowed!

Phil P.
June 13th 09, 08:59 AM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote
> > Naa- I just have very little tolerance for obtuse and obstinate people.
> >
>
> I think you have shown tremendous patience with Calvin, Phil. You have
> mellowed!

I might be mellowing- or just exhausted- its kitten season... again. It
doesn't seem like last year's kitten season ever ended. You know times must
be really bad when people throw away kittens like these:

http://maxshouse.com/Abandoned/Siamese_Kits_DSC8028.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Abandoned/Siamese_Kit_DSC8025.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Abandoned/parkinglotkittens.jpg


I tried to be patient with Calvin because I realized he only grasps about a
quarter of what he reads- that's why I had to repeat the same stuff over and
over before he was able to put it all together. I think he wants to do the
right thing but since he only grasps a fraction of what he hears or reads he
has trouble trying to decide what the right thing is. I gave up on him when
he started whining about feeling insulted.

Calvin
June 13th 09, 02:01 PM
On Jun 13, 3:59*am, "Phil P." > wrote:
> I might be mellowing- or just exhausted- its kitten season... again. *It
> doesn't seem like last year's kitten season ever ended. You know times must
> be really bad when people throw away kittens like these:
>
> http://maxshouse.com/Abandoned/Siamese_Kits_DSC8028.jpg
> http://maxshouse.com/Abandoned/Siamese_Kit_DSC8025.jpg
> http://maxshouse.com/Abandoned/parkinglotkittens.jpg
>
> I tried to be patient with Calvin because I realized he only grasps about a
> quarter of what he reads- that's why I had to repeat the same stuff over and
> over before he was able to put it all together. *I think he wants to do the
> right thing but since he only grasps a fraction of what he hears or reads he
> has trouble trying to decide what the right thing is. *I gave up on him when
> he started whining about feeling insulted.

(*being* insulted, not feeling insulted)

I grasped what you said well enough. But I didn't want to
have to spend the rest of my life, or the rest of the cat's life,
giving him interferon. So I clung to what I read on the
internet as being possibly true, because I didn't see any
reason for it to be a lie, and it was a list of frightening
possible side-effects, so it looked to me like I had a case
worth clinging to. Eventually, though, I had to let it go.

If you think my comprehension is low, then test me.
Tell me something that you think an intelligent person
in this forum should be able to grasp, and I will tell
you what it means, to the best of my ability. Then you
will be able to confidently state the level of my grasping
ability.

Or, of course, you can just not be bothered, and give me
the same old insults, because you have given up on me.

KMC Collins
June 30th 09, 04:41 AM
On Jun 7, 9:08*am, "cybercat" > wrote:
> "calvin" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Mr. P, I wasn't asking why the cat was prescribed never
> > ending medication, I was expressing concern that any
> > harm that might come from it would build up indefinitely.
> > You're smart, no doubt, but you don't seem to be able any
> > better than anyone else to grasp the point
>
> Your cat will die without it, and sooner than if you do not use it. So it
> does not matter if in the end some of the side effects occur. They all die
> eventuallty. You have to treat her with this so she does not die now.

KMC Collins
June 30th 09, 04:52 AM
On Jun 4, 12:20*pm, calvin > wrote:
> Please see this link:
>
> http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/interferon-roferon-a/page1.aspx
>
> Here it lists liver damage and nervous system damage, in addition
> to other side effects mentioned in the previous thread, such as
> loss of appetite and throwing up, as possible side effects.
>
> My vet saw the cat again two days ago. *At that time I told him
> about having waited a week to start the interferon, and about my
> concern about side effects. *He told me that he had never seen
> side effects from interferon.
>
> We are now in the week off from interferon, after the first week on
> it.
> Next Monday, the day before interferon is to start again, the cat is
> to be neutered. *I will bring him home the next day, when the
> interferon
> is to start again. *The vet seems to think that the interferon may
> help
> with any weaknesses that the cat, having leukemia, might have
> aggrivated by the neutering. *He recommended timing the neutering
> so that it would be followed by a week back on interferon.
>
> Does any of this make sense to those of you who are serious?


Hi... New to reading all of the egotistical posts, so many
condesending replies!! I have worked in veterinary internal medicine/
critical care for almost 6 years. In the industry for 15. I seriously
reccomend seeing an internal medicine specialist for your interferon
questions, rather than blogging them. I just started my 9 month old
cat on interferon for calicivirus. Yes, side effects are seen in every
medication, such as Advil : ) I am monitoring my cat by doing
bloodwork every 16 weeks, and obviously observing if there are any
neurologic abnormal signs are present. The truth is beginning with the
smallest prescribed dose and seeing if you notice a decrease in
clinical signs. The dose for interferon is extremely varying. I hope
this helped a little!

cybercat
June 30th 09, 05:48 AM
"KMC Collins" > wrote
> Does any of this make sense to those of you who are serious?


>Hi... New to reading all of the egotistical posts, so many
>condesending replies!!

Yes, this is very helpful. The cat is dead, asshole.

Phil P.
June 30th 09, 07:29 AM
"KMC Collins" > wrote in message
...

> I have worked in veterinary internal medicine/
> critical care for almost 6 years. In the industry for 15.

In what capacity?

If you are a vet- or at least a competent vet- you would know- rather, you
should know, adverse effects from low-dose (30 IU) interferon have never
been reported in cats. Adverse effects in cats are only associated with
high-dose SC, IM, or IP routes.


>The truth is beginning with the smallest prescribed dose and seeing if you
notice a decrease in clinical signs.


How would you notice a decrease in clinical signs if there are none? The cat
is in the early stages of FeLV and still asymptomatic.

I hope
> this helped a little!

Not in the least. In fact your post did more harm than good. You've probably
made the guy wary and begin worrying all over again when there's no reason
to.

cybercat
June 30th 09, 07:32 AM
"Phil P." > wrote
>
> Not in the least. In fact your post did more harm than good. You've
> probably
> made the guy wary and begin worrying all over again when there's no reason
> to.
>

Okay, now I am really confused. Calvin just said his cat died. Was this
another cat?

Phil P.
June 30th 09, 07:51 AM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote
> >
> > Not in the least. In fact your post did more harm than good. You've
> > probably
> > made the guy wary and begin worrying all over again when there's no
reason
> > to.
> >
>
> Okay, now I am really confused. Calvin just said his cat died. Was this
> another cat?
>

Yeah, I think so. He said the FeLV cat was a young stray he just took in a
few weeks ago.

cybercat
June 30th 09, 02:51 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...
>
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Phil P." > wrote
>> >
>> > Not in the least. In fact your post did more harm than good. You've
>> > probably
>> > made the guy wary and begin worrying all over again when there's no
> reason
>> > to.
>> >
>>
>> Okay, now I am really confused. Calvin just said his cat died. Was this
>> another cat?
>>
>
> Yeah, I think so. He said the FeLV cat was a young stray he just took in a
> few weeks ago.
>
I see. Either way it is sad, but I hope the other cat makes it.

Smokie Darling (Annie)
June 30th 09, 08:54 PM
On Jun 4, 1:20*pm, calvin > wrote:
> Please see this link:
>
> http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/interferon-roferon-a/page1.aspx
>
> Here it lists liver damage and nervous system damage, in addition
> to other side effects mentioned in the previous thread, such as
> loss of appetite and throwing up, as possible side effects.
>
> My vet saw the cat again two days ago. *At that time I told him
> about having waited a week to start the interferon, and about my
> concern about side effects. *He told me that he had never seen
> side effects from interferon.
>
> We are now in the week off from interferon, after the first week on
> it.
> Next Monday, the day before interferon is to start again, the cat is
> to be neutered. *I will bring him home the next day, when the
> interferon
> is to start again. *The vet seems to think that the interferon may
> help
> with any weaknesses that the cat, having leukemia, might have
> aggrivated by the neutering. *He recommended timing the neutering
> so that it would be followed by a week back on interferon.
>
> Does any of this make sense to those of you who are serious?

Calvn,

I'm late to this game, but... I had a cat on Interferon every day for
over 10 years. She had FIV (feline immuno-deficiency virus). She had
none of those side effects.

All medications come with warnings. Because *some* animals had this
reaction does not mean that *your* cat will have them. It's simply a
warning. If it were commonplace that these effects happened, then
Interferon would not be used.

Smokie Darling (Annie)

Smokie Darling (Annie)
June 30th 09, 08:55 PM
On Jun 30, 12:32*am, "cybercat" > wrote:
> "Phil P." > wrote
>
>
>
> > Not in the least. In fact your post did more harm than good. You've
> > probably
> > made the guy wary and begin worrying all over again when there's no reason
> > to.
>
> Okay, now I am really confused. Calvin just said his cat died. Was this
> another cat?

Oops, should have read the rest before I responded to Calvin. Sorry
for that.

Calvin
June 30th 09, 10:09 PM
Just to clarify, the cat that died was my oldest (12 1/2). I first
mentioned her dying in dgt's thread about her cat not eating.

There could be a connection between the stray tomcat and her
death, though, because the FeLV+ tomcat had been coming
around for a few weeks before I took him to the vet and found
out that he had FeLV. There was no possibility that any of
my cats had been infected by a food dish, because they
would not touch anything the tomcat had touched. They had even
been staying out of the house because he went in the house.
That's always been the way my cats act about an intruding
stray.

But they did drink out of their water dishes, and he had drunk
out of them too. Apparently he doesn't leave his scent on a
water dish. So, I wondered if my oldest cat could have caught
FeLV from the water dish before I ever took the stray to the vet,
and died so soon of it. That was why I started the thread about
FeLV being contagious, and one of my questions there was
about how soon a cat could die if infected by FeLV.