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October 11th 09, 05:13 AM
Hi All:

I have a problem with one of my cats and its weight and
I'll try to make this as brief as possible. I have 2 cats, 5 and 3
years old, male and female. My male cat is obese and I'm having a hard
time getting this under control. They are both fed 1 354 gram tin of
Wellness catfood per day. An additional handful of Wellness dry food
is left in the dish overnight each. In an ideal world I'd be able to
put a 2 bowls of food down at specific times for a specific period and
let them eat as much as they could during that time frame.
Unfortunately, the smaller cat is not a big eater at all and is more
of a picker during the day, it's not very food focused. The fat cat is
there the minute the food is put down, in fact he'll wake me up at 4
or 5 in morning wanting food. I've put the fat cat in the utility
room for it's feeding in hopes the smaller cat would eat it's own food
right away but she's more interested in what the fat cats upto behind
the door. I've tried switching thei r diets to predominantly Wellness
Weight Control dryfood but my small cat can't handle dry food and will
throw it up on a regular basis. I just spent $300 dollars on vet bills
because of this and the vet suggested just feed the small one
predominantly wet food. But as I mentioned before, it's impossible to
feed them different foods. It's almost like my heavy cat is obsessed
with food. I'm constantly having put the other cats food up as he's
trying to eat that too. I'm very aware of the health implications of
having an obese cat and am at a total loss of what to do. They are
indoor cats only, I'm single and live in a house so there's no obvious
stressors that I can think of that would be causing my cat to gorge
itself. If anyone has any ideas or advice I would sincerely appreciate
hearing from them.

Thanks,
Dave.

Kelly Greene
October 11th 09, 09:29 AM
> wrote in message
...
> Hi All:
>
> I have a problem with one of my cats and its weight and
> I'll try to make this as brief as possible. I have 2 cats, 5 and 3
> years old, male and female. My male cat is obese and I'm having a hard
> time getting this under control. They are both fed 1 354 gram tin of
> Wellness catfood per day. An additional handful of Wellness dry food
> is left in the dish overnight each. In an ideal world I'd be able to
> put a 2 bowls of food down at specific times for a specific period and
> let them eat as much as they could during that time frame.
> Unfortunately, the smaller cat is not a big eater at all and is more
> of a picker during the day, it's not very food focused. The fat cat is
> there the minute the food is put down, in fact he'll wake me up at 4
> or 5 in morning wanting food. I've put the fat cat in the utility
> room for it's feeding in hopes the smaller cat would eat it's own food
> right away but she's more interested in what the fat cats upto behind
> the door. I've tried switching thei r diets to predominantly Wellness
> Weight Control dryfood but my small cat can't handle dry food and will
> throw it up on a regular basis. I just spent $300 dollars on vet bills
> because of this and the vet suggested just feed the small one
> predominantly wet food. But as I mentioned before, it's impossible to
> feed them different foods. It's almost like my heavy cat is obsessed
> with food. I'm constantly having put the other cats food up as he's
> trying to eat that too. I'm very aware of the health implications of
> having an obese cat and am at a total loss of what to do. They are
> indoor cats only, I'm single and live in a house so there's no obvious
> stressors that I can think of that would be causing my cat to gorge
> itself. If anyone has any ideas or advice I would sincerely appreciate
> hearing from them.
>
> Thanks,
> Dave.


First I would stop the dry food which is mainly grains; unhealthy fattening
carbohydrates which cats don't need as obligate carnivores. Even humans can
live nicely and be healthier with the very small amount of carbs obtained
from greens, fruits and vegetables alone. We and our cats would suffer from
a lot less obesity and diabetes and the diseases both bring.

This may work for you - I had a similar problem some years ago with an
aggressive eater and a smaller younger cat who simply ate slower. It was
cured by feeding them one meal a day in different places. The smaller cat in
the kitchen, and the more aggressive one in the living room. Since it was
"wet" food they consumed it at one time. Your smaller eater will not starve
to death. It will quickly learn to eat enough when food is available.

There were no leftovers and of course no dry food, so no snacking all day
long. All day snacking can lead to obesity as you know. If my more
aggressive cat (who wasn't fat) went after the smaller cat's food, he was
put in the bedroom and the door shut until the smaller cat finished. He
eventually learned he could sit at the doorway and watch the smaller cat
finish his food, or try and steal it and go into the bedroom for awhile.
Cats are quick learners. Eventually he ignored the smaller cat and ate his
own food. By the time he had his paws and face washed, the smaller cat was
finished. :-) Some people believe cats need to be fed more than once a
day. I haven't found that to be necessary to keep them slim and fit.

They did get all the meaty leftovers so many days they did have a second if
smaller meal. Sometimes leftovers were mixed in with their regular food.

My cat Lucky.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/Lottaminya/LuckyCat4.jpg
--
Kelly..........
If you're a past or present resident of
NYC and want to share past experiences
and current events with others from NYC,
check out this free message Board:
http://members6.boardhost.com/QueensNYer/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

October 17th 09, 01:34 AM
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 03:29:32 -0500, "Kelly Greene"
> wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>> Hi All:
>>
>> I have a problem with one of my cats and its weight and
>> I'll try to make this as brief as possible. I have 2 cats, 5 and 3
>> years old, male and female. My male cat is obese and I'm having a hard
>> time getting this under control. They are both fed 1 354 gram tin of
>> Wellness catfood per day. An additional handful of Wellness dry food
>> is left in the dish overnight each. In an ideal world I'd be able to
>> put a 2 bowls of food down at specific times for a specific period and
>> let them eat as much as they could during that time frame.
>> Unfortunately, the smaller cat is not a big eater at all and is more
>> of a picker during the day, it's not very food focused. The fat cat is
>> there the minute the food is put down, in fact he'll wake me up at 4
>> or 5 in morning wanting food. I've put the fat cat in the utility
>> room for it's feeding in hopes the smaller cat would eat it's own food
>> right away but she's more interested in what the fat cats upto behind
>> the door. I've tried switching thei r diets to predominantly Wellness
>> Weight Control dryfood but my small cat can't handle dry food and will
>> throw it up on a regular basis. I just spent $300 dollars on vet bills
>> because of this and the vet suggested just feed the small one
>> predominantly wet food. But as I mentioned before, it's impossible to
>> feed them different foods. It's almost like my heavy cat is obsessed
>> with food. I'm constantly having put the other cats food up as he's
>> trying to eat that too. I'm very aware of the health implications of
>> having an obese cat and am at a total loss of what to do. They are
>> indoor cats only, I'm single and live in a house so there's no obvious
>> stressors that I can think of that would be causing my cat to gorge
>> itself. If anyone has any ideas or advice I would sincerely appreciate
>> hearing from them.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dave.
>
>
>First I would stop the dry food which is mainly grains; unhealthy fattening
>carbohydrates which cats don't need as obligate carnivores. Even humans can
>live nicely and be healthier with the very small amount of carbs obtained
>from greens, fruits and vegetables alone. We and our cats would suffer from
>a lot less obesity and diabetes and the diseases both bring.
>
>This may work for you - I had a similar problem some years ago with an
>aggressive eater and a smaller younger cat who simply ate slower. It was
>cured by feeding them one meal a day in different places. The smaller cat in
>the kitchen, and the more aggressive one in the living room. Since it was
>"wet" food they consumed it at one time. Your smaller eater will not starve
>to death. It will quickly learn to eat enough when food is available.
>
>There were no leftovers and of course no dry food, so no snacking all day
>long. All day snacking can lead to obesity as you know. If my more
>aggressive cat (who wasn't fat) went after the smaller cat's food, he was
>put in the bedroom and the door shut until the smaller cat finished. He
>eventually learned he could sit at the doorway and watch the smaller cat
>finish his food, or try and steal it and go into the for awhile.
>Cats are quick learners. Eventually he ignored the smaller cat and ate his
>own food. By the time he had his paws and face washed, the smaller cat was
>finished. :-) Some people believe cats need to be fed more than once a
>day. I haven't found that to be necessary to keep them slim and fit.
>
>They did get all the meaty leftovers so many days they did have a second if
>smaller meal. Sometimes leftovers were mixed in with their regular food.
>
>My cat Lucky.
>http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/Lottaminya/LuckyCat4.jpg

Hi Kelly:

Thank you and sorry for the late reply. I've removed the
dry food gradually and completely over the week. I'll give the one
feeding a day a try and see how it goes. Thanks again.

Rene S.
October 19th 09, 04:13 PM
I think you will have to just bite the bullet and feed them
separately, twice per day, about 12 hours apart, wet food only. The
Wellness wet (grain free varieties) is a good choice. The smaller one
will soon learn to eat her food at the alloted time. We have three
cats and I have to feed them separately. It's a bit of a pain, but it
works and once you get the routine in place, everyone will go to their
special place to eat.

Kelly is right about feeding dry food. I have learned first hand that
feeding dry food will NOT help a cat lose weight, even the so-called
"prescription food." I have a web page that document my one cat's
weight loss journey: http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/

Here are some good articles about feline nutrition: http://www.catinfo.org/
http://www.catnutrition.org/diabetes.php

Email me if you have further questions,
Rene

Kelly Greene
October 19th 09, 11:24 PM
> wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 03:29:32 -0500, "Kelly Greene"
>>They did get all the meaty leftovers so many days they did have a second
>>if
>>smaller meal. Sometimes leftovers were mixed in with their regular food.
>>
>>My cat Lucky.
>>http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/Lottaminya/LuckyCat4.jpg
>
> Hi Kelly:
>
> Thank you and sorry for the late reply. I've removed the
> dry food gradually and completely over the week. I'll give the one
> feeding a day a try and see how it goes. Thanks again.

Please let me know how it goes. :-)
--
Kelly..........
If you're a past or present resident of
NYC and want to share past experiences
and current events with others from NYC,
check out this free message Board:
http://members6.boardhost.com/QueensNYer/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

FirstHit
October 20th 09, 05:45 AM
On Oct 19, 8:13*am, "Rene S." > wrote:
> I think you will have to just bite the bullet and feed them
> separately, twice per day, about 12 hours apart, wet food only. The
> Wellness wet (grain free varieties) is a good choice. The smaller one
> will soon learn to eat her food at the alloted time. We have three
> cats and I have to feed them separately. It's a bit of a pain, but it
> works and once you get the routine in place, everyone will go to their
> special place to eat.
>
> Kelly is right about feeding dry food. I have learned first hand that
> feeding dry food will NOT help a cat lose weight, even the so-called
> "prescription food." I have a web page that document my one cat's
> weight loss journey:http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/

I enjoyed reading Tucker's journey. I agree that getting a scale is
important for monitoring weight. Otherwise, you're not getting the
feedback you need.

I am trying to help my cat lose some weight. He is not obese but is
overweight and will probably be obese if I don't do something about
his eating. I just bought a pet scale from petco.com for $69.

How did you determine the right amount to feed your cat?

FirstHit

Rene S.
October 20th 09, 02:14 PM
> I enjoyed reading Tucker's journey. *I agree that getting a scale is
> important for monitoring weight. *Otherwise, you're not getting the
> feedback you need.
>
> I am trying to help my cat lose some weight. *He is not obese but is
> overweight and will probably be obese if I don't do something about
> his eating. *I just bought a pet scale from petco.com for $69.
>
> How did you determine the right amount to feed your cat?
>
> FirstHit

For Tucker, he maintains his 14 lb 10 oz weight on one tuna-sized can
of Wellness per day. He is a less-active cat.

First, what is your cat's current weight? What is his target weight?
What type of food do you feed? How active is he (and is he neutered)?
These factors will all determine how much food he should eat.

FirstHit
October 20th 09, 11:10 PM
On Oct 20, 6:14 am, "Rene S." > wrote:
> > I enjoyed reading Tucker's journey. I agree that getting a scale is
> > important for monitoring weight. Otherwise, you're not getting the
> > feedback you need.
>
> > I am trying to help my cat lose some weight. He is not obese but is
> > overweight and will probably be obese if I don't do something about
> > his eating. I just bought a pet scale from petco.com for $69.
>
> > How did you determine the right amount to feed your cat?
>
> > FirstHit
>
> For Tucker, he maintains his 14 lb 10 oz weight on one tuna-sized can
> of Wellness per day. He is a less-active cat.
>
> First, what is your cat's current weight? What is his target weight?
> What type of food do you feed? How active is he (and is he neutered)?
> These factors will all determine how much food he should eat.

I got the kitty 10 days ago at a shelter. He weighs 11.5 lb, which is
up from 7.5 lb when he first entered the shelter months ago. I am not
sure if his optimum weight is 7.5 lb. Probably not, as he might have
been skinny when he entered.

Kitty is a 1.5-year-old neutered indoor male. For an indoor cat, he
is pretty active.

At this time, I can only give you a floating target. It would be 9.5
or 10 lb. When we get there, I will re-evaluate. At present, it is a
little hard for me to find his ribs. Also, he has quite a pot belly,
and because he is bottom-heavy, he is hard to pick up without giving
the necessary support to his hind quarters.

I currently have him on Science Diet Light (Dry). This is NOT a diet
I want to keep him on. (I want to move to grainless wet food.)
However, due to a problem with diarrhea the vet and I are working on,
I am not going to change his diet at the moment. We don't know at
this point if the cause is a pathogen, a parasite, or diet-related.

He has access to the food all day and is eating an average of 87g/day,
which is about 7/8 cup per day. In a couple of days I think I will
kill the continuous feed and feed him the same food twice a day. I'd
like to give him all he wants to eat in those 2 feedings and see how
much--if any--his food consumption goes down. Soon thereafter, if it
doesn't interfere with vet's ideas about what to do about the
diarrhea, I'd like to shift to something like Wellness or EVO wet.

So now that you know the circumstances, how would you calculate how
much my kitty should eat per day? Do you have a formula? Might just
putting him on 2 meals per day of canned grainless food without
rationing food amounts solve the problem? That apparently doesn't
work for Tucker.

The vet says the cat should not be allowed to gain more weight. He
says the cat is not obese but overweight. I concur. I asked about
food recommendations, and the only advice he would give me is to only
buy food that meets the nutritional standards of AAFCO.

FirstHit

Rene S.
October 21st 09, 04:45 PM
> At this time, I can only give you a floating target. *It would be 9.5
> or 10 lb. *When we get there, I will re-evaluate. *At present, it is a
> little hard for me to find his ribs. *Also, he has quite a pot belly,
> and because he is bottom-heavy, he is hard to pick up without giving
> the necessary support to his hind quarters.
>
> I currently have him on Science Diet Light (Dry). *This is NOT a diet
> I want to keep him on. *(I want to move to grainless wet food.)
> However, due to a problem with diarrhea the vet and I are working on,
> I am not going to change his diet at the moment. *We don't know at
> this point if the cause is a pathogen, a parasite, or diet-related.


> So now that you know the circumstances, how would you calculate how
> much my kitty should eat per day? *Do you have a formula? *Might just
> putting him on 2 meals per day of canned grainless food without
> rationing food amounts solve the problem? *That apparently doesn't
> work for Tucker.

Ok, first, two meals per day of grainfree canned food DOES work for
Tucker. He's maintained his weight for nearly 5 years this way. :-)

First, you need to stop free feeding. Cats don't need to graze all
day, and will often (like people) eat "just because it's there." Two
meals about 12 hours apart is best.

The general guideline is 15 calories per pound. For weight loss,
slowly shave off amounts of food (you don't want him to lose weight
too quickly), adding a bit of water to "replace" the missing food.

Here's a site with calorie amounts for many wet foods, including
Wellness. I suggest starting with turkey, chicken, turkey & salmon,
and chicken & herring flavors (all are grain free).
http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/CanFoodNew.html

Ten pounds sounds like a good starting goal weight. You can re-
evaluate once he's closer to that goal.

As for the diarrhea, my opinion is that (slowly) switching diet can
only help him. I once fed SD light to Tucker, and the ingredient list
is scary. It's also possible he has a grain allergy. You can also give
probiotics to improve the good bacteria in his digestive tract.

cybercat
October 21st 09, 09:51 PM
"Rene S." > wrote
>Ok, first, two meals per day of grainfree canned food DOES work for
>Tucker. He's maintained his weight for nearly 5 years this way. :-)

>First, you need to stop free feeding. Cats don't need to graze all
>day, and will often (like people) eat "just because it's there." Two
>meals about 12 hours apart is best.

You're right. When we got our cat Boo, she was 18 lbs and should have been
8-9 pounds. She got fat being free-fed Diet Iams dry. I switched her to
canned food 12 hours apart, giving her three 3 oz cans a day. To lose weight
the vet said reduce it by 1/4 until she reaches a plateau, then do it again.
I eyeballed it, but did reduce it about 1/4. She lost 9 lbs in about 12
months, and that is about as fast as is safe.

FirstHit
October 22nd 09, 07:13 AM
On Oct 21, 8:45 am, "Rene S." > wrote:
> > At this time, I can only give you a floating target. It would be 9.5
> > or 10 lb. When we get there, I will re-evaluate. At present, it is a
> > little hard for me to find his ribs. Also, he has quite a pot belly,
> > and because he is bottom-heavy, he is hard to pick up without giving
> > the necessary support to his hind quarters.
>
> > I currently have him on Science Diet Light (Dry). This is NOT a diet
> > I want to keep him on. (I want to move to grainless wet food.)
> > However, due to a problem with diarrhea the vet and I are working on,
> > I am not going to change his diet at the moment. We don't know at
> > this point if the cause is a pathogen, a parasite, or diet-related.
> > So now that you know the circumstances, how would you calculate how
> > much my kitty should eat per day? Do you have a formula? Might just
> > putting him on 2 meals per day of canned grainless food without
> > rationing food amounts solve the problem? That apparently doesn't
> > work for Tucker.
>
> Ok, first, two meals per day of grainfree canned food DOES work for
> Tucker. He's maintained his weight for nearly 5 years this way. :-)

Yes, you and Tucker have been very successful at achieving your weight
goals with the 2 *measured* grainfree canned meals. I was asking
about allowing the cat to consume _all_he_wants_ twice a day within
let's say half an hour.

> First, you need to stop free feeding. Cats don't need to graze all
> day, and will often (like people) eat "just because it's there." Two
> meals about 12 hours apart is best.
>
> The general guideline is 15 calories per pound. For weight loss,
> slowly shave off amounts of food (you don't want him to lose weight
> too quickly), adding a bit of water to "replace" the missing food.
>
> Here's a site with calorie amounts for many wet foods, including
> Wellness. I suggest starting with turkey, chicken, turkey & salmon,
> and chicken & herring flavors (all are grain free).http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/CanFoodNew.html
>
> Ten pounds sounds like a good starting goal weight. You can re-
> evaluate once he's closer to that goal.
>
> As for the diarrhea, my opinion is that (slowly) switching diet can
> only help him. I once fed SD light to Tucker, and the ingredient list
> is scary. It's also possible he has a grain allergy. You can also give
> probiotics to improve the good bacteria in his digestive tract.

I thank you very much for all of the above. Your information will be
useful to me. I will also consider cybercat's 1/4-reduction method.

Your suggestion to give probiotics sounds very good to me, especially
since the antibiotics the vet wants him to take will probably be
killing the good bacteria. Do you have any particular product in
mind? If not, I will probably use Natren's probiotic for cats. I've
used their product for humans, and I think it's a good one.

One other thing... Do you have any thoughts on using EVO vs Wellness?

FirstHit

Rene S.
October 22nd 09, 02:16 PM
> Your suggestion to give probiotics sounds very good to me, especially
> since the antibiotics the vet wants him to take will probably be
> killing the good bacteria. *Do you have any particular product in
> mind? *If not, I will probably use Natren's probiotic for cats. *I've
> used their product for humans, and I think it's a good one.

I really like the products that Only Natural Pet sells
(onlynaturalpet.com). Their "probiotic blend" works well and I've had
good customer service from the company (no affiliation, just a
customer). You can also give human probiotics (sold at health-food
stores), but just make sure they don't contain any milk products,
which may upset a kitty's tummy.

> One other thing... *Do you have any thoughts on using EVO vs Wellness?

Both are great foods and I do mix in Evo sometimes with my cats. The
only negative with the wet Evo is that it's higher in calories
compared to the Wellness. You could feed the Evo, but you'd need to
give him a little less quantity (and maybe mix in some water to add
bulk). You could also primarily feed Wellness and give an occasional
can of Evo for variety. It's really up to you.

Rene

Rene S.
October 22nd 09, 02:17 PM
> You're right. When we got our cat Boo, she was 18 lbs and should have been
> 8-9 pounds. She got fat being free-fed Diet Iams dry. I switched her to
> canned food 12 hours apart, giving her three 3 oz cans a day. To lose weight
> the vet said reduce it by 1/4 until she reaches a plateau, then do it again.
> I eyeballed it, but did reduce it about 1/4. She lost 9 lbs in about 12
> months, and that is about as fast as is safe.

Wow, that's an amazing amount of weight loss! Good for you (and Boo).

FirstHit
October 22nd 09, 10:22 PM
On Oct 22, 6:16*am, "Rene S." > wrote:
> > Your suggestion to give probiotics sounds very good to me, especially
> > since the antibiotics the vet wants him to take will probably be
> > killing the good bacteria. *Do you have any particular product in
> > mind? *If not, I will probably use Natren's probiotic for cats. *I've
> > used their product for humans, and I think it's a good one.
>
> I really like the products that Only Natural Pet sells
> (onlynaturalpet.com). Their "probiotic blend" works well and I've had
> good customer service from the company (no affiliation, just a
> customer). You can also give human probiotics (sold at health-food
> stores), but just make sure they don't contain any milk products,
> which may upset a kitty's tummy.
>
> > One other thing... *Do you have any thoughts on using EVO vs Wellness?
>
> Both are great foods and I do mix in Evo sometimes with my cats. The
> only negative with the wet Evo is that it's higher in calories
> compared to the Wellness. You could feed the Evo, but you'd need to
> give him a little less quantity (and maybe mix in some water to add
> bulk). You could also primarily feed Wellness and give an occasional
> can of Evo for variety. It's really up to you.

Thank you, Rene!

I picked up the food bowl last night, and put it back down for an hour
this morning, so he's now on a two-meal schedule. I also started his
antibiotics. I am keeping him on the Sci Diet Lite Dry for now though
because I don't want to introduce too many changes at once.

I will be glad when the antibiotics are over with in a week and I can
start moving the guy toward Wellness. Hopefully my scale will arrive
soon. I have an accurate postal scale but it only goes up to 11 lb.

FirstHit

FirstHit
November 1st 09, 08:12 AM
On Oct 21, 8:45*am, "Rene S." > wrote:
> > At this time, I can only give you a floating target. *It would be 9.5
> > or 10 lb. *When we get there, I will re-evaluate. *At present, it is a
> > little hard for me to find his ribs. *Also, he has quite a pot belly,
> > and because he is bottom-heavy, he is hard to pick up without giving
> > the necessary support to his hind quarters.
>
> > I currently have him on Science Diet Light (Dry). *This is NOT a diet
> > I want to keep him on. *(I want to move to grainless wet food.)
> > However, due to a problem with diarrhea the vet and I are working on,
> > I am not going to change his diet at the moment. *We don't know at
> > this point if the cause is a pathogen, a parasite, or diet-related.
> > So now that you know the circumstances, how would you calculate how
> > much my kitty should eat per day? *Do you have a formula? *Might just
> > putting him on 2 meals per day of canned grainless food without
> > rationing food amounts solve the problem? *That apparently doesn't
> > work for Tucker.
>
> Ok, first, two meals per day of grainfree canned food DOES work for
> Tucker. He's maintained his weight for nearly 5 years this way. :-)
>
> First, you need to stop free feeding. Cats don't need to graze all
> day, and will often (like people) eat "just because it's there." Two
> meals about 12 hours apart is best.
>
> The general guideline is 15 calories per pound. For weight loss,
> slowly shave off amounts of food (you don't want him to lose weight
> too quickly), adding a bit of water to "replace" the missing food.
>
> Here's a site with calorie amounts for many wet foods, including
> Wellness. I suggest starting with turkey, chicken, turkey & salmon,
> and chicken & herring flavors (all are grain free).http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/CanFoodNew.html

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FirstHit