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KenK
November 25th 09, 01:36 PM
Any recommendations for canned cat food? I've fed her Fancy Feast for many
years but lately she's been getting diarrhea every week or two. She's
allergic to shellfish and fish and perhaps poultry disagrees with her as
well. Not much left. Suggestions? I noted someone mentioned diarrhea and a
canned food that helped a few days ago but unfortunately I carelessly
didn't print the message or note the name of the thread.

TIA


--
"When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner

dgk
November 25th 09, 03:39 PM
On 25 Nov 2009 13:36:57 GMT, KenK > wrote:

>Any recommendations for canned cat food? I've fed her Fancy Feast for many
>years but lately she's been getting diarrhea every week or two. She's
>allergic to shellfish and fish and perhaps poultry disagrees with her as
>well. Not much left. Suggestions? I noted someone mentioned diarrhea and a
>canned food that helped a few days ago but unfortunately I carelessly
>didn't print the message or note the name of the thread.
>
>TIA



All three of my cats like the ProPlan line. They love the Chicken and
Rice. I'm sure you've noticed that it's kind of tough to tell what
causes a cat to have diarreha, especially if it only happens once a
week.

Buddy's Mom
November 25th 09, 09:43 PM
How old is your cat? Has she been tested for having hyperthyroidism?
Does she go outside? It seems would be odd for Fancy Feast to be
creating this problem. I would look for something else. Does she
drink milk? Eat people food, etc.

Stacey[_3_]
November 26th 09, 05:27 AM
Mine like Evo, turkey and turkey and chicken.

Stacey

--
~~~~~~~~~
None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

-- The Vampire Lestat by Anne Rice

"KenK" > wrote in message
...
> Any recommendations for canned cat food? I've fed her Fancy Feast for many
> years but lately she's been getting diarrhea every week or two. She's
> allergic to shellfish and fish and perhaps poultry disagrees with her as
> well. Not much left. Suggestions? I noted someone mentioned diarrhea and a
> canned food that helped a few days ago but unfortunately I carelessly
> didn't print the message or note the name of the thread.
>
> TIA
>
>
> --
> "When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
> remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner
>
>
>
>
>
>

starcat
November 26th 09, 05:15 PM
"dgk" > wrote in message
...
> On 25 Nov 2009 13:36:57 GMT, KenK > wrote:
>
>>Any recommendations for canned cat food? I've fed her Fancy Feast for many
>>years but lately she's been getting diarrhea every week or two. She's
>>allergic to shellfish and fish and perhaps poultry disagrees with her as
>>well. Not much left. Suggestions? I noted someone mentioned diarrhea and a
>>canned food that helped a few days ago but unfortunately I carelessly
>>didn't print the message or note the name of the thread.
>>
>>TIA
>
>
>
> All three of my cats like the ProPlan line. They love the Chicken and
> Rice. I'm sure you've noticed that it's kind of tough to tell what
> causes a cat to have diarreha, especially if it only happens once a
> week.

ProPlan is great with a lot of good flavors. First, diarrhea once a week is
going to be hard to pinpoint. If it's a long-haired cat, it may come down
to your cat is ingesting too much fur. All cats, but especially long-haired
ones, need to be brushed/combed at least once a week. You'd be surprised at
how many people don't do that for their short-haired kitties.

Second, Fancy Feast isn't bad, but it depends on which flavor you're
feeding. Some of them are definitely better than others. Check this out:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Cat_Food_Review

Third, if your cat is allergic to shellfish, fish, and perhaps poultry,
there's still plenty left to choose from. There's beef, lamb, and even
venison in some of the better cat food brands. Cats like variety, but if
you can just find 2 or 3 kinds she likes, that'll work.

Fourth, if you can afford it, check out Natural Balance or Wellness brands,
since they're grain-free. Others are too, so read those can ingredients
before buying. Grain in cat food is a real trigger for soft stool in a lot
of cats, and they don't need it anyway.

Fifth, and most obvious, is no dairy.

KenK
November 26th 09, 06:13 PM
"starcat" > wrote in
m:

> All cats, but especially long-haired
> ones, need to be brushed/combed at least once a week. You'd be
> surprised at how many people don't do that for their short-haired
> kitties.

She's a shothair and gets groomed daily.

> Second, Fancy Feast isn't bad, but it depends on which flavor you're
> feeding.

About all that's left that she doesn't seem to have problems with is the
beef with gravy. The beef without has fish.

> Fourth, if you can afford it, check out Natural Balance or Wellness
> brands, since they're grain-free.

I quick-Googled

wellness cat food diarrhea

and see complaints about Wellness causing it. Natural Balance doesn't seem
to show this but I suspect, though I haven't checked yet, that it's not
locally available. Pretty expensive, too, even without mailorder shipping.

> Fifth, and most obvious, is no dairy.

Once in a blue moon - if I have a splash left over from cooking. None
during the recent soft stool or diarrhea episodes.





--
"When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner

KenK
November 26th 09, 06:16 PM
"Buddy's Mom" > wrote in news:bd6ed832-7cc2-4be0-9b3c-
:

> How old is your cat?

About 14.

> Has she been tested for having hyperthyroidism?

Not to my knowledge.

> Does she go outside?

No

> It seems would be odd for Fancy Feast to be
> creating this problem. I would look for something else. Does she
> drink milk?

No

>Eat people food, etc.

She insista on a small taste when I eat. She's done this all her life,
the diarrhea have just showed up the last few months, if that.







--
"When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner

jmc
November 27th 09, 02:06 PM
Suddenly, without warning, KenK exclaimed (11/26/2009 1:16 PM):
> "Buddy's Mom" > wrote in news:bd6ed832-7cc2-4be0-9b3c-
> :
>
>> How old is your cat?
>
> About 14.
>
>> Has she been tested for having hyperthyroidism?
>
> Not to my knowledge.
>
>> Does she go outside?
>
> No
>
>> It seems would be odd for Fancy Feast to be
>> creating this problem. I would look for something else. Does she
>> drink milk?
>
> No
>
>> Eat people food, etc.
>
> She insista on a small taste when I eat. She's done this all her life,
> the diarrhea have just showed up the last few months, if that.
>
>

I think when a cat's that old, if there's any changes in behavior, etc,
it's time for a trip to the vet.

My 13.5 year old cat is going to the vet on Monday because she suddenly
has a good appetite. It's not a bad thing in and of itself, but the
sudden change after years of leaving food behind has me wondering.

Oh, and FWIW, allergies and food tolerances can crop up at any time.
I'd try stopping the people food treats for a while and see if that
helps. Oh, and take your kitty to the vet :)

jmc

starcat
November 27th 09, 02:53 PM
"KenK" > wrote in message
...
> "starcat" > wrote in
> m:
>
>> All cats, but especially long-haired
>> ones, need to be brushed/combed at least once a week. You'd be
>> surprised at how many people don't do that for their short-haired
>> kitties.
>
> She's a shothair and gets groomed daily.

Good for you! She'll have a better coat and a happier digestive tract for
it.


>
>> Second, Fancy Feast isn't bad, but it depends on which flavor you're
>> feeding.
>
> About all that's left that she doesn't seem to have problems with is the
> beef with gravy. The beef without has fish.

I will say that it's not unusual for cats to have poo issues with fish,
especially that Fancy Feast Ocean Fish variety in the pink can. Since turkey
and chicken are out too with her, that does just leave beef.

>
>> Fourth, if you can afford it, check out Natural Balance or Wellness
>> brands, since they're grain-free.
>
> I quick-Googled
>
> wellness cat food diarrhea
>
> and see complaints about Wellness causing it. Natural Balance doesn't seem
> to show this but I suspect, though I haven't checked yet, that it's not
> locally available. Pretty expensive, too, even without mailorder shipping.

I have a Persian who had a diarrhea issue recently (his was 2-3 times a
week, so it was a huge problem), and the Wellness and Natural Balance helped
tremendously. He got better on the Wellness, so I didn't have a worsening
of his problem on it, but for him, he didn't like the flavors as much as the
Natural Balance. Pricey? You bet! I cringed buying it, but once his issue
resolved, I started working in his favorite Fancy Feast and ProPlan flavors.
He gets the Natural Balance a few times a week, but not daily any more. I
start with a visit to the vet, and he was on an antibiotic for a bit, but it
didn't help. His poo issues were sudden and no fun for me, since he chose
not to use the litter pan when he had them. If you look at ProPlan canned,
they may have a variety your cat will eat. It's considerably less expensive
than the others, and my cats love it.

>
>> Fifth, and most obvious, is no dairy.
>
> Once in a blue moon - if I have a splash left over from cooking. None
> during the recent soft stool or diarrhea episodes.
>

Chances are, you may never determine exactly what's causing this, but you're
starting at the right place with watching her diet. I remember with my cat,
I thought about adding a bit of canned pumpkin to his diet. I Googled his
problem, and a lot of cat owners swear by it for helping cats with soft poo
issues. He got better, though, so I never tried it.

With my cat, in the end, his poop problem resolved with the change in his
diet, but he kept pooping outside the litter pan, so he was left with a
behavioral issue. In the end, I added not just one but TWO extra litter
pans, including a larger uncovered one. Problem immediately solved. I have
two more litter pans than I'd like, but no more poop surprises on the
carpet.

Which brings me to another thought: Is your cat under any unusual stress
lately? Something that might bring on a diarrhea attack? I've had two cats
(including the Persian) who whenever they boarded at the vet would have very
soft poop or diarrhea episodes. Whenever something upset their applecart,
it went straight to their bowels, so to speak. Maybe something on the days
she has an episode is a bit different than what she's used to - it's just
something to think about.



> --
> "When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
> remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner
>
>
>
>
>
>

starcat
November 27th 09, 05:43 PM
"jmc" > wrote in message
...
> Suddenly, without warning, KenK exclaimed (11/26/2009 1:16 PM):
>> "Buddy's Mom" > wrote in news:bd6ed832-7cc2-4be0-9b3c-
>> :
>>
>>> How old is your cat?
>>
>> About 14.
>>
>>> Has she been tested for having hyperthyroidism?
>>
>> Not to my knowledge.
>>
>>> Does she go outside?
>>
>> No
>>
>>> It seems would be odd for Fancy Feast to be
>>> creating this problem. I would look for something else. Does she
>>> drink milk?
>>
>> No
>>
>>> Eat people food, etc.
>>
>> She insista on a small taste when I eat. She's done this all her life,
>> the diarrhea have just showed up the last few months, if that.
>>
>>
>
> I think when a cat's that old, if there's any changes in behavior, etc,
> it's time for a trip to the vet.

I totally agree. In fact, my cats go to the vet for a "senior wellness"
checkup every 6 months after the age of 10 and get diagnostic blood work at
least once a year. It's served me well too, since all of mine have lived
well into their teen years. Two of them had serious medical problems but
lived to 17 and 18, respectively. Kidney, dental, thyroid, cardiac, and
even cancers can be caught and treated much earlier that way.

>
> My 13.5 year old cat is going to the vet on Monday because she suddenly
> has a good appetite. It's not a bad thing in and of itself, but the
> sudden change after years of leaving food behind has me wondering.
>

In your case, with a sudden increase in appetite, my first thought would be
thyroid or diabetes.

>
> jmc

jmc
November 27th 09, 05:51 PM
Suddenly, without warning, starcat exclaimed (11/27/2009 12:43 PM):
> "jmc" > wrote in message
> ...

>> My 13.5 year old cat is going to the vet on Monday because she suddenly
>> has a good appetite. It's not a bad thing in and of itself, but the
>> sudden change after years of leaving food behind has me wondering.
>>
>
> In your case, with a sudden increase in appetite, my first thought would be
> thyroid or diabetes.
>
>> jmc
>

Yea, that's my thought too :(

jmc

KenK
November 28th 09, 02:18 PM
"starcat" > wrote in
m:

> Which brings me to another thought: Is your cat under any unusual
> stress lately? Something that might bring on a diarrhea attack? I've
> had two cats (including the Persian) who whenever they boarded at the
> vet would have very soft poop or diarrhea episodes. Whenever
> something upset their applecart, it went straight to their bowels, so
> to speak. Maybe something on the days she has an episode is a bit
> different than what she's used to - it's just something to think
> about.
>

No. We two live very quietly. Perhaps two or three visitors a year - none
during her recent BM episides nor anything else I can think of that might
have upset her. Trips to the vet are really traumatic for her - she is
terrified of riding in my truck. Interesting idea though.

Emily had a soft BM again yesterday. I tried a can of Natural Life (I think
it was called), supposedly premium food - priced as such - with lamb a few
hours earler. So much for that idea.

I decided I have been mis-describing her BMs. Except for one, to totally
ruin any appetite you may have, unlike soup they are more like chocolate
pudding, or wet cement. I think/hope not as serious.

I had a litter box problem with an earlier cat - she would 'go' over the
edge. I finally got a huge litter box, which cured the problem. I think she
just did not fit comfortably within the smaller box. I still have it -
Emily uses it and a regular sized box. The soft BMs usually go in the
larger box. I thought fearfully about it, but so far Emily has always uses
the litter box for her soft BMs.


--
"When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner

November 29th 09, 01:32 AM
On Nov 28, 6:18*am, KenK > wrote:
> "starcat" > wrote innews:[email protected] com:
>
> > Which brings me to another thought: *Is your cat under any unusual
> > stress lately? *Something that might bring on a diarrhea attack? *I've
> > had two cats (including the Persian) who whenever they boarded at the
> > vet would have very soft poop or diarrhea episodes. *Whenever
> > something upset their applecart, it went straight to their bowels, so
> > to speak. *Maybe something on the days she has an episode is a bit
> > different than what she's used to - it's just something to think
> > about.
>
> No. We two live very quietly. Perhaps two or three visitors a year - none
> during her recent BM episides nor anything else I can think of that might
> have upset her. Trips to the vet are really traumatic for her - she is
> terrified of riding in my truck. Interesting idea though.
>
> Emily had a soft BM again yesterday. I tried a can of Natural Life (I think
> it was called), supposedly premium food - priced as such - with lamb a few
> hours earler. So much for that idea.
>

Once you have a problem, it is not time to try new foods. Stop all
cat food (dry and canned). Give plain chicken breast. I boil it so
that it stays moist. Shred it a little and feed that for several days.
Let the cat's system recover before asking it to try new food.

When the cat is already sensitive, even the best cat food will upset
it. It's just like with people. If your own system is messed up, even
your normal foods will give you problems. Go back to plain food and
lots of liquids.

David Harmon
November 29th 09, 05:04 AM
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:32:20 -0800 (PST) in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
" > wrote,
>Once you have a problem, it is not time to try new foods. Stop all
>cat food (dry and canned). Give plain chicken breast. I boil it so
>that it stays moist. Shred it a little and feed that for several days.

Chicken soup? I've heard that was good when one was ill.

starcat
November 29th 09, 05:16 AM
"KenK" > wrote in message
...

>
> I decided I have been mis-describing her BMs. Except for one, to totally
> ruin any appetite you may have, unlike soup they are more like chocolate
> pudding, or wet cement. I think/hope not as serious.
>

That's pretty much exactly like my Persian's poo problem. "Pudding" is a
really good way of describing it. I did take him to the vet several times
during his troubles, which would always seem to resolve and then start up
again. In his case, the diet change worked, but it did take about a week
before I noticed a real difference.

The first place to start is definitely with a visit to the vet, particularly
with an older cat. Even though my cat's troubles have finally resolved (it
took a while too - very frustrating!), the vet was able to determine that
nothing really serious was going on with him.

Petzl
November 29th 09, 08:13 AM
On 28 Nov 2009 14:18:51 GMT, KenK > wrote:
>
>No. We two live very quietly. Perhaps two or three visitors a year - none
>during her recent BM episides nor anything else I can think of that might
>have upset her. Trips to the vet are really traumatic for her - she is
>terrified of riding in my truck. Interesting idea though.
>
>Emily had a soft BM again yesterday. I tried a can of Natural Life (I think
>it was called), supposedly premium food - priced as such - with lamb a few
>hours earler. So much for that idea.
>
>I decided I have been mis-describing her BMs. Except for one, to totally
>ruin any appetite you may have, unlike soup they are more like chocolate
>pudding, or wet cement. I think/hope not as serious.
>
>I had a litter box problem with an earlier cat - she would 'go' over the
>edge. I finally got a huge litter box, which cured the problem. I think she
>just did not fit comfortably within the smaller box. I still have it -
>Emily uses it and a regular sized box. The soft BMs usually go in the
>larger box. I thought fearfully about it, but so far Emily has always uses
>the litter box for her soft BMs.
>

Just try a ordinary can of Cat food
Popular name brand from your Super Market
For instance in Australia it's called "Whiskers" meat variety
Sometimes over processed food can give a cat the runs

Raw meat contains enzyme's which help a digestive system work
so once in a while get a small piece from butcher (for human type)
Makes Cat digestive work harder Cut into ¼inch pieces and watch out
--
Petzl
Battle Hymn of the Republic
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=JCqZ-9-lDEo
http://tinyurl.com/8vqqxd

jmc
November 29th 09, 02:19 PM
Suddenly, without warning, David Harmon exclaimed (11/29/2009 12:04 AM):
> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:32:20 -0800 (PST) in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
> " > wrote,
>> Once you have a problem, it is not time to try new foods. Stop all
>> cat food (dry and canned). Give plain chicken breast. I boil it so
>> that it stays moist. Shred it a little and feed that for several days.
>
> Chicken soup? I've heard that was good when one was ill.
>
>
Not for cats. Anything with onion (and it probably does have) is bad
for cats.

jmc

cybercat
December 8th 09, 04:03 PM
"sequeena" > wrote in message
...
>I feed my cat dry food. It's much better for her teeth as tinned food
> begins to rot the teeth after a long period of time.
> She is also
> fed raw so there is no need for wet :)
>

You are an idiot. Cats are carnivores, and do not need the carbohydrates in
dry food.

Matthew[_3_]
December 8th 09, 04:57 PM
"sequeena" > wrote in message
...
>I feed my cat dry food. It's much better for her teeth as tinned food
> begins to rot the teeth after a long period of time.
> She is also
> fed raw so there is no need for wet :)
>

You are absolutely WRONG. Dry food has been proven to cause multiple
problems in cats

Raw is fine as long as you know what your are doing

Maynard G. Krebs
December 9th 09, 02:01 AM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
g.com...
>
> "sequeena" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I feed my cat dry food. It's much better for her teeth as tinned food
>> begins to rot the teeth after a long period of time.
>> She is also
>> fed raw so there is no need for wet :)
>>
>
> You are absolutely WRONG. Dry food has been proven to cause multiple
> problems in cats

Can you please provide credible & peer reviewed scientific proof of that
assertion? Can you cite the scientific studies and the veterinary medical
journals that these were published?

> Raw is fine as long as you know what your are doing

See above....

cybercat
December 9th 09, 02:12 AM
"Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matthew" > wrote in message
> g.com...
>>
>> "sequeena" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>I feed my cat dry food. It's much better for her teeth as tinned food
>>> begins to rot the teeth after a long period of time.
>>> She is also
>>> fed raw so there is no need for wet :)
>>>
>>
>> You are absolutely WRONG. Dry food has been proven to cause multiple
>> problems in cats
>
> Can you please provide credible & peer reviewed scientific proof of that
> assertion?

Google it, asshole. In the 15 years we have been reading the group, other
assholes have asked for this at least a thousand times. Try this first: cats
are carnivores. Carnivores eat meat. Canned food is mostly meat. Dry food is
mostly grains.

Maynard G. Krebs
December 9th 09, 02:52 AM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>> g.com...
>>>
>>> "sequeena" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>I feed my cat dry food. It's much better for her teeth as tinned food
>>>> begins to rot the teeth after a long period of time.
>>>> She is also
>>>> fed raw so there is no need for wet :)
>>>>
>>>
>>> You are absolutely WRONG. Dry food has been proven to cause multiple
>>> problems in cats
>>
>> Can you please provide credible & peer reviewed scientific proof of that
>> assertion?
>
> Google it, asshole.

YOU made the assertion, it's YOUR responsibility to provide the proof.
Don't expect met to do YOUR homework for you nor go on any wild goose hunts.
If it's been "proven" then it should be easy for you to reply to my request.
Why does simply asking for the proof you've claimed make me an "asshole"?
BTW, ad hominem attacks come from those losing a discussion.

> In the 15 years we have been reading the group, other assholes have asked
> for this at least a thousand times. Try this first: cats are carnivores.
> Carnivores eat meat. Canned food is mostly meat. Dry food is mostly
> grains.

Again, I most graciously request that you please provide your credible peer
reviewed scientific evidence, along with cites to those vetenary medical
journals that prove your assertion.

Kelly Greene
December 9th 09, 04:52 AM
"KenK" > wrote in message
...
> Any recommendations for canned cat food? I've fed her Fancy Feast for many
> years but lately she's been getting diarrhea every week or two. She's
> allergic to shellfish and fish and perhaps poultry disagrees with her as
> well. Not much left. Suggestions? I noted someone mentioned diarrhea and a
> canned food that helped a few days ago but unfortunately I carelessly
> didn't print the message or note the name of the thread.
>

We feed our cats Special Kitty and Little Friskies in addition to
FancyFeast. Read the cans and avoid those with wheat, corn and other
"trash" fillers. As a treat I buy them human grade Mackerel. They go wacky
for it. :-)

Kelly Greene
December 9th 09, 05:01 AM
"Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
...
>
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>>> g.com...
>>>>
>>>> "sequeena" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>I feed my cat dry food. It's much better for her teeth as tinned food
>>>>> begins to rot the teeth after a long period of time.
>>>>> She is also
>>>>> fed raw so there is no need for wet :)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are absolutely WRONG. Dry food has been proven to cause multiple
>>>> problems in cats
>>>
>>> Can you please provide credible & peer reviewed scientific proof of that
>>> assertion?
>>
>> Google it, asshole.
>
> YOU made the assertion, it's YOUR responsibility to provide the proof.
> Don't expect met to do YOUR homework for you nor go on any wild goose
> hunts. If it's been "proven" then it should be easy for you to reply to my
> request. Why does simply asking for the proof you've claimed make me an
> "asshole"? BTW, ad hominem attacks come from those losing a discussion.

Killfile "cybercat." She's the rudest most foul mouth person of all on any
of these cat groups. Replying to her just brings more childish foul mouth
insults.

5 years we have been reading the group, other assholes have asked
>> for this at least a thousand times. Try this first: cats are carnivores.
>> Carnivores eat meat. Canned food is mostly meat. Dry food is mostly
>> grains.

> Again, I most graciously request that you please provide your credible
> peer reviewed scientific evidence, along with cites to those vetenary
> medical journals that prove your assertion.
>

Petzl
December 9th 09, 06:08 AM
On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 23:01:16 -0600, "Kelly Greene" >
wrote:

>
>Killfile "cybercat." She's the rudest most foul mouth person of all on any
>of these cat groups. Replying to her just brings more childish foul mouth
>insults.

Cybercat has the courage to be direct honest and she appears to be
mainly correct
You may not like the facts but she like you is a "goodie" and means
well
Petzl

Matthew[_3_]
December 9th 09, 06:20 AM
"Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matthew" > wrote in message
> g.com...
>>
>> "sequeena" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>I feed my cat dry food. It's much better for her teeth as tinned food
>>> begins to rot the teeth after a long period of time.
>>> She is also
>>> fed raw so there is no need for wet :)
>>>
>>
>> You are absolutely WRONG. Dry food has been proven to cause multiple
>> problems in cats
>
> Can you please provide credible & peer reviewed scientific proof of that
> assertion? Can you cite the scientific studies and the veterinary medical
> journals that these were published?
>
>> Raw is fine as long as you know what your are doing
>
> See above....

I am sorry but I am not going to repost information over and over and over
again and again due to some one new looking at the group. Check past post
and Google the same question and debates have been going on for years in
the groups. Not interested in another one

Matthew[_3_]
December 9th 09, 06:21 AM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "cybercat" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>>>> g.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "sequeena" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>I feed my cat dry food. It's much better for her teeth as tinned food
>>>>>> begins to rot the teeth after a long period of time.
>>>>>> She is also
>>>>>> fed raw so there is no need for wet :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are absolutely WRONG. Dry food has been proven to cause multiple
>>>>> problems in cats
>>>>
>>>> Can you please provide credible & peer reviewed scientific proof of
>>>> that assertion?
>>>
>>> Google it, asshole.
>>
>> YOU made the assertion, it's YOUR responsibility to provide the proof.
>> Don't expect met to do YOUR homework for you nor go on any wild goose
>> hunts. If it's been "proven" then it should be easy for you to reply to
>> my request. Why does simply asking for the proof you've claimed make me
>> an "asshole"? BTW, ad hominem attacks come from those losing a
>> discussion.
>
> Killfile "cybercat." She's the rudest most foul mouth person of all on
> any of these cat groups. Replying to her just brings more childish foul
> mouth insults.
>
> 5 years we have been reading the group, other assholes have asked
>>> for this at least a thousand times. Try this first: cats are carnivores.
>>> Carnivores eat meat. Canned food is mostly meat. Dry food is mostly
>>> grains.
>
>> Again, I most graciously request that you please provide your credible
>> peer reviewed scientific evidence, along with cites to those vetenary
>> medical journals that prove your assertion.
>>

Sorry you may not like her but she tells it how she sees it Truth hurts
sometimes

cybercat
December 9th 09, 07:15 AM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
g.com...
>
> "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "cybercat" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>>>>> g.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "sequeena" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>I feed my cat dry food. It's much better for her teeth as tinned food
>>>>>>> begins to rot the teeth after a long period of time.
>>>>>>> She is also
>>>>>>> fed raw so there is no need for wet :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are absolutely WRONG. Dry food has been proven to cause multiple
>>>>>> problems in cats
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you please provide credible & peer reviewed scientific proof of
>>>>> that assertion?
>>>>
>>>> Google it, asshole.
>>>
>>> YOU made the assertion, it's YOUR responsibility to provide the proof.
>>> Don't expect met to do YOUR homework for you nor go on any wild goose
>>> hunts. If it's been "proven" then it should be easy for you to reply to
>>> my request. Why does simply asking for the proof you've claimed make me
>>> an "asshole"? BTW, ad hominem attacks come from those losing a
>>> discussion.
>>
>> Killfile "cybercat." She's the rudest most foul mouth person of all on
>> any of these cat groups. Replying to her just brings more childish foul
>> mouth insults.
>>
>> 5 years we have been reading the group, other assholes have asked
>>>> for this at least a thousand times. Try this first: cats are
>>>> carnivores. Carnivores eat meat. Canned food is mostly meat. Dry food
>>>> is mostly grains.
>>
>>> Again, I most graciously request that you please provide your credible
>>> peer reviewed scientific evidence, along with cites to those vetenary
>>> medical journals that prove your assertion.
>>>
>
> Sorry you may not like her but she tells it how she sees it Truth hurts
> sometimes

have you noticed that this stupid bitch keeps changing email addresses? What
does that tell you?

cybercat
December 9th 09, 07:17 AM
"Petzl" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 23:01:16 -0600, "Kelly Greene" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Killfile "cybercat." She's the rudest most foul mouth person of all on
>>any
>>of these cat groups. Replying to her just brings more childish foul mouth
>>insults.
>
> Cybercat has the courage to be direct honest and she appears to be
> mainly correct
> You may not like the facts but she like you is a "goodie" and means
> well
> Petzl

Can you explain why "Kelly" continues to use different email addresses?

Petzl
December 9th 09, 08:00 AM
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 02:17:28 -0500, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>Can you explain why "Kelly" continues to use different email addresses?
>
Didn't notice?
Could be attempt at spam prevention?
I find Gmail good, real messages get through, with spam going to spam
very accurately. A free account you can "throw away"

Petzl

Maynard G. Krebs
December 9th 09, 03:27 PM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
g.com...
>
> "Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>> g.com...
>>>
>>> "sequeena" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>I feed my cat dry food. It's much better for her teeth as tinned food
>>>> begins to rot the teeth after a long period of time.
>>>> She is also
>>>> fed raw so there is no need for wet :)
>>>>
>>>
>>> You are absolutely WRONG. Dry food has been proven to cause multiple
>>> problems in cats
>>
>> Can you please provide credible & peer reviewed scientific proof of that
>> assertion? Can you cite the scientific studies and the veterinary
>> medical journals that these were published?
>>
>>> Raw is fine as long as you know what your are doing
>>
>> See above....
>
> I am sorry but I am not going to repost information over and over and over
> again and again due to some one new looking at the group. Check past
> post and Google the same question and debates have been going on for
> years in the groups. Not interested in another one

So you've got nothing! Anyone can make any silly assertion and then claim
it's not their responsibility to back it up. For instance I can claim that
it's been proven that feeding your cat nothing but grapefruits will greatly
extend their lifespans. If someone then requests that I provide cites to
that proof then I can call them an "asshole" and tell them to "Google" it
for themselves, that it's been debated for years and that I'm just too busy
to provide it. Thus it must be true then right? I don't think so.

So, I again politely request that you cite the credible SCIENTIFIC peer
reviewed studies and veterinary journals that show that "Dry food has been
proven to cause multiple problems in cats".

Maynard G. Krebs
December 9th 09, 03:27 PM
"Petzl" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 23:01:16 -0600, "Kelly Greene" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Killfile "cybercat." She's the rudest most foul mouth person of all on
>>any
>>of these cat groups. Replying to her just brings more childish foul mouth
>>insults.
>
> Cybercat has the courage to be direct honest and she appears to be
> mainly correct
> You may not like the facts but she like you is a "goodie" and means
> well

Well then, please provide the facts? That is the credible SCIENTIFIC peer
reviewed studies and veterinary journals that show that "Dry food has been
proven to cause multiple problems in cats". How is simply making an
assertion without ANY credible evidence to back it up being honest? Also
good intentions doesn't necessarily translate to being correct.

cybercat
December 9th 09, 05:22 PM
"Petzl" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 02:17:28 -0500, "cybercat" >
> wrote:
>
>>Can you explain why "Kelly" continues to use different email addresses?
>>
> Didn't notice?
> Could be attempt at spam prevention?
> I find Gmail good, real messages get through, with spam going to spam
> very accurately. A free account you can "throw away"
>
She has changed email addresses at least three time, because I have
killfiled her twice but she keeps coming up. Generally this means someone
is here to **** with people.

Matthew[_3_]
December 9th 09, 06:09 PM
"sequeena" > wrote in message
...
>> > I feed my cat dry food. It's much better for her teeth as tinned
>> > food begins to rot the teeth after a long period of time. She is
>> > also fed raw so there is no need for wet :)
>>
> You are absolutely WRONG. Dry food has been proven to cause
>> multiple problems in cats
> Raw is fine as long as you know what
>> your are doing
>
> Wrong eh? Okay that's your opinion :)Not going to argue about it
> because I know what's better.


LOL
two new idiots come into the group both with less than a couple post Yeah
Like I am going to take the time to re post all the information

Matthew[_3_]
December 9th 09, 06:10 PM
"Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Petzl" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 23:01:16 -0600, "Kelly Greene" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Killfile "cybercat." She's the rudest most foul mouth person of all on
>>>any
>>>of these cat groups. Replying to her just brings more childish foul mouth
>>>insults.
>>
>> Cybercat has the courage to be direct honest and she appears to be
>> mainly correct
>> You may not like the facts but she like you is a "goodie" and means
>> well
>
> Well then, please provide the facts? That is the credible SCIENTIFIC peer
> reviewed studies and veterinary journals that show that "Dry food has been
> proven to cause multiple problems in cats". How is simply making an
> assertion without ANY credible evidence to back it up being honest? Also
> good intentions doesn't necessarily translate to being correct.

Use Google do something instead of trying to cause problems

cybercat
December 9th 09, 06:20 PM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
g.com...
>
> "sequeena" > wrote in message
> ...
>>> > I feed my cat dry food. It's much better for her teeth as tinned
>>> > food begins to rot the teeth after a long period of time. She is
>>> > also fed raw so there is no need for wet :)
>>>
>> You are absolutely WRONG. Dry food has been proven to cause
>>> multiple problems in cats
>> Raw is fine as long as you know what
>>> your are doing
>>
>> Wrong eh? Okay that's your opinion :)Not going to argue about it
>> because I know what's better.
>
>
> LOL
> two new idiots come into the group both with less than a couple post Yeah
> Like I am going to take the time to re post all the information

Yeah but she knows better. Carnivores need cheap starch food, don't you know
that? It can't be because sequenie or whatever finds it CONVENIENT to dump
some cheap dry food in a bowl and doesn't want to spend money on quality
canned food.

cybercat
December 9th 09, 06:22 PM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
g.com...
>
> "Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Petzl" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 23:01:16 -0600, "Kelly Greene" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Killfile "cybercat." She's the rudest most foul mouth person of all on
>>>>any
>>>>of these cat groups. Replying to her just brings more childish foul
>>>>mouth
>>>>insults.
>>>
>>> Cybercat has the courage to be direct honest and she appears to be
>>> mainly correct
>>> You may not like the facts but she like you is a "goodie" and means
>>> well
>>
>> Well then, please provide the facts? That is the credible SCIENTIFIC
>> peer reviewed studies and veterinary journals that show that "Dry food
>> has been proven to cause multiple problems in cats". How is simply
>> making an assertion without ANY credible evidence to back it up being
>> honest? Also good intentions doesn't necessarily translate to being
>> correct.
>
> Use Google do something instead of trying to cause problems
NO, Matthew, YOU have to do idiot's work for him. It's not like we haven't
had this conversation 1500 times before. Jesus, where do these freaks come
from? Their poor cats.

Bill Graham
December 9th 09, 09:28 PM
"Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matthew" > wrote in message
> g.com...
>>
>> "Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>>> g.com...
>>>>
>>>> "sequeena" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>I feed my cat dry food. It's much better for her teeth as tinned food
>>>>> begins to rot the teeth after a long period of time.
>>>>> She is also
>>>>> fed raw so there is no need for wet :)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are absolutely WRONG. Dry food has been proven to cause multiple
>>>> problems in cats
>>>
>>> Can you please provide credible & peer reviewed scientific proof of that
>>> assertion? Can you cite the scientific studies and the veterinary
>>> medical journals that these were published?
>>>
>>>> Raw is fine as long as you know what your are doing
>>>
>>> See above....
>>
>> I am sorry but I am not going to repost information over and over and
>> over again and again due to some one new looking at the group. Check
>> past post and Google the same question and debates have been going on
>> for years in the groups. Not interested in another one
>
> So you've got nothing! Anyone can make any silly assertion and then claim
> it's not their responsibility to back it up. For instance I can claim
> that it's been proven that feeding your cat nothing but grapefruits will
> greatly extend their lifespans. If someone then requests that I provide
> cites to that proof then I can call them an "asshole" and tell them to
> "Google" it for themselves, that it's been debated for years and that I'm
> just too busy to provide it. Thus it must be true then right? I don't
> think so.
>
> So, I again politely request that you cite the credible SCIENTIFIC peer
> reviewed studies and veterinary journals that show that "Dry food has been
> proven to cause multiple problems in cats".
>
The assertion is suspect just on the face of it. All the best brands make
and distribute dry cat food. If it was harmful to cats this wouldn't be the
case.....Go to Petsmart and you will find dozens of different brands of dry
food on their shelves.....As many as there are brands of canned food. I feed
my 5 cats both wet and dry food, as well as roasted chicken and other people
food when they want it, or seem interested in it. Some of them also like
whole milk, and it doesn't seem to hurt them at all. As a matter of fact,
they eat everything that I eat from time to time, or whenever they want it.
If some of the food is harmful to them, well, that's life......No one ever
promised either them or I that we were going to live forever. But as long as
we are here, we are going to enjoy it as much as possible.

Petzl
December 9th 09, 09:56 PM
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 12:22:34 -0500, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>She has changed email addresses at least three time, because I have
>killfiled her twice but she keeps coming up. Generally this means someone
>is here to **** with people.
>
That's another possibility she's a troll
Petzl

cybercat
December 9th 09, 10:58 PM
"Petzl" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 12:22:34 -0500, "cybercat" >
> wrote:
>
>>She has changed email addresses at least three time, because I have
>>killfiled her twice but she keeps coming up. Generally this means someone
>>is here to **** with people.
>>
> That's another possibility she's a troll

Yes, I am afraid so. There is no other reason to keep using different email
addresses. The reason I killfile so fast is because there was a day, and
lots of people here remember it well, when I got into stupid flame wars with
every idiot who posted here asking for advice when their cat needed a vet
right away, or declaring idiotic things like "dry food is the best for cats"
or saying really dumb things like "My cat would be better off dead if he
could not roam freely!" etc etc etc. People got tired of the flame wars, so
now I kf. I consider it a public service. :)

Maynard G. Krebs
December 10th 09, 12:23 AM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
g.com...
>
> "Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Petzl" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 23:01:16 -0600, "Kelly Greene" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Killfile "cybercat." She's the rudest most foul mouth person of all on
>>>>any
>>>>of these cat groups. Replying to her just brings more childish foul
>>>>mouth
>>>>insults.
>>>
>>> Cybercat has the courage to be direct honest and she appears to be
>>> mainly correct
>>> You may not like the facts but she like you is a "goodie" and means
>>> well
>>
>> Well then, please provide the facts? That is the credible SCIENTIFIC
>> peer reviewed studies and veterinary journals that show that "Dry food
>> has been proven to cause multiple problems in cats". How is simply
>> making an assertion without ANY credible evidence to back it up being
>> honest? Also good intentions doesn't necessarily translate to being
>> correct.
>
> Use Google do something instead of trying to cause problems

Politely requesting some credible evidenct is "causing problems"? What does
that say about the assertion?

Maynard G. Krebs
December 10th 09, 12:26 AM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matthew" > wrote in message
> g.com...
>>
>> "Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Petzl" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 23:01:16 -0600, "Kelly Greene" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Killfile "cybercat." She's the rudest most foul mouth person of all on
>>>>>any
>>>>>of these cat groups. Replying to her just brings more childish foul
>>>>>mouth
>>>>>insults.
>>>>
>>>> Cybercat has the courage to be direct honest and she appears to be
>>>> mainly correct
>>>> You may not like the facts but she like you is a "goodie" and means
>>>> well
>>>
>>> Well then, please provide the facts? That is the credible SCIENTIFIC
>>> peer reviewed studies and veterinary journals that show that "Dry food
>>> has been proven to cause multiple problems in cats". How is simply
>>> making an assertion without ANY credible evidence to back it up being
>>> honest? Also good intentions doesn't necessarily translate to being
>>> correct.
>>
>> Use Google do something instead of trying to cause problems
> NO, Matthew, YOU have to do idiot's work for him.

Only idiots believe whatever is posted on these NG's without any credible
evidence. Nor is it MY work, an assertion was made that "Dry food has been
proven to cause multiple problems in cats" and it's the person who made that
assertion responsibility to provide that proof. I don't do other peoples
homework!

> It's not like we haven't had this conversation 1500 times before. Jesus,
> where do these freaks come from?

Then it should be EASY for you to provide such credible evidence.

> Their poor cats.

My cat is doing just fine thank you and who are YOU to judge?

Maynard G. Krebs
December 10th 09, 12:43 AM
"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>> g.com...
>>>
>>> "Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>>>> g.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "sequeena" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>I feed my cat dry food. It's much better for her teeth as tinned food
>>>>>> begins to rot the teeth after a long period of time.
>>>>>> She is also
>>>>>> fed raw so there is no need for wet :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are absolutely WRONG. Dry food has been proven to cause multiple
>>>>> problems in cats
>>>>
>>>> Can you please provide credible & peer reviewed scientific proof of
>>>> that assertion? Can you cite the scientific studies and the veterinary
>>>> medical journals that these were published?
>>>>
>>>>> Raw is fine as long as you know what your are doing
>>>>
>>>> See above....
>>>
>>> I am sorry but I am not going to repost information over and over and
>>> over again and again due to some one new looking at the group. Check
>>> past post and Google the same question and debates have been going on
>>> for years in the groups. Not interested in another one
>>
>> So you've got nothing! Anyone can make any silly assertion and then
>> claim it's not their responsibility to back it up. For instance I can
>> claim that it's been proven that feeding your cat nothing but grapefruits
>> will greatly extend their lifespans. If someone then requests that I
>> provide cites to that proof then I can call them an "asshole" and tell
>> them to "Google" it for themselves, that it's been debated for years and
>> that I'm just too busy to provide it. Thus it must be true then right?
>> I don't think so.
>>
>> So, I again politely request that you cite the credible SCIENTIFIC peer
>> reviewed studies and veterinary journals that show that "Dry food has
>> been proven to cause multiple problems in cats".
>>
> The assertion is suspect just on the face of it. All the best brands make
> and distribute dry cat food. If it was harmful to cats this wouldn't be
> the case.....Go to Petsmart and you will find dozens of different brands
> of dry food on their shelves.....As many as there are brands of canned
> food. I feed my 5 cats both wet and dry food, as well as roasted chicken
> and other people food when they want it, or seem interested in it. Some of
> them also like whole milk, and it doesn't seem to hurt them at all. As a
> matter of fact, they eat everything that I eat from time to time, or
> whenever they want it. If some of the food is harmful to them, well,
> that's life......No one ever promised either them or I that we were going
> to live forever. But as long as we are here, we are going to enjoy it as
> much as possible.

Thank you for adding something reasonable to this discussion. One size does
not fit everyone and one kind of cat food does work or not work for all
cats.

Cats have been domesticated for thousands of years, possibly for ten
thousand years or more. Thus it's very difficult to know exactly what is
"natural" anymore about a typical domestic cat. However, it would not be
too dificult to perform very controlled scientific studies comparing various
wet foods vs. various dry foods over long term in cats. Any health
differences would surely show up in such a study. So, if anyone has any
cites to such long term studies of cats showing how "Dry food has been
proven to cause multiple problems in cats" then please provide links to
those studies. Thank you.

Matthew[_3_]
December 10th 09, 02:37 AM
"Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matthew" > wrote in message
> g.com...
>>
>> "Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Petzl" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 23:01:16 -0600, "Kelly Greene" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Killfile "cybercat." She's the rudest most foul mouth person of all on
>>>>>any
>>>>>of these cat groups. Replying to her just brings more childish foul
>>>>>mouth
>>>>>insults.
>>>>
>>>> Cybercat has the courage to be direct honest and she appears to be
>>>> mainly correct
>>>> You may not like the facts but she like you is a "goodie" and means
>>>> well
>>>
>>> Well then, please provide the facts? That is the credible SCIENTIFIC
>>> peer reviewed studies and veterinary journals that show that "Dry food
>>> has been proven to cause multiple problems in cats". How is simply
>>> making an assertion without ANY credible evidence to back it up being
>>> honest? Also good intentions doesn't necessarily translate to being
>>> correct.
>>
>> Use Google do something instead of trying to cause problems
>
> Politely requesting some credible evidenct is "causing problems"? What
> does that say about the assertion?
Shut up and read
http://www.google.com/search?q=do+dry+food+cause+problems+in+cats&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

Maynard G. Krebs
December 10th 09, 03:44 AM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
g.com...
>
> "Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>> g.com...
>>>
>>> "Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Petzl" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 23:01:16 -0600, "Kelly Greene" >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Killfile "cybercat." She's the rudest most foul mouth person of all
>>>>>>on any
>>>>>>of these cat groups. Replying to her just brings more childish foul
>>>>>>mouth
>>>>>>insults.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cybercat has the courage to be direct honest and she appears to be
>>>>> mainly correct
>>>>> You may not like the facts but she like you is a "goodie" and means
>>>>> well
>>>>
>>>> Well then, please provide the facts? That is the credible SCIENTIFIC
>>>> peer reviewed studies and veterinary journals that show that "Dry food
>>>> has been proven to cause multiple problems in cats". How is simply
>>>> making an assertion without ANY credible evidence to back it up being
>>>> honest? Also good intentions doesn't necessarily translate to being
>>>> correct.
>>>
>>> Use Google do something instead of trying to cause problems
>>
>> Politely requesting some credible evidenct is "causing problems"? What
>> does that say about the assertion?
> Shut up and read
> http://www.google.com/search?q=do+dry+food+cause+problems+in+cats&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

Well, there's no SCIENTIFIC peer reviewed studies cite anywhere in that link
proving that "Dry food has been proven to cause multiple problems in cats".
In fact, there's very little evidence cited anywhere and it's largely
unsubstantiated opinion, speculation and anecdotal. You seem to assume that
ALL dry food is the same or even that canned food is likewise all the same.
Nearly all those articles warn against cheap low quality food, regardless of
whether it's canned or dry. In fact, nearly all those article listed
emphasize reading & understanding the nutrition labels and THAT was the most
important thing to know when choosing cat food! That what's important is
the level of protein in the food you're feeding your cat with preferred
amounts being at least 50% protein and low carbohydrate of 5-10%, regardless
of whether it's dry or not.

However, I did find this in your link above:

"Do cats need soft food or hard food?"

"The best answer is a combination of both, using high quality foods. Cats
only eat when hungry so you could leave out a bowl of dry during the day.
Give the cat canned food once a day, approx. 1 1/2 ounce. Dry food only can
cause urinary tract problems. Canned food only can cause dental problems. "

"It actually does matter what a cat is fed. Wet food has been shown not to
contain much in the way of nutritional value and is about 90% water. A good
quality dry food should be fed, with a LITTLE wet food as a treat now and
again.
Also feeding dry food will help the cats faeces as wet food can often cause
the runs. Make sure your cat has plenty of fresh drinking water available
when on a dry food diet.

Also dry food is much more economical than wet food and does not cause the
problem with flies laying their eggs on it and it going off and smelling
terribly. "

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_cats_need_soft_food_or_hard_food

So, canned food can cause dental problems in cats. It also can give cats
the "runs". That doesn't sound so good now does it?

Or this:

"In normal cats, a mix of wet and dry food may provide a sensible “middle
ground” between convenience, expense, and health. "

"your veterinarian will be the best resource you can have to selecting the
best long-term diet for your cat"

(Note: I've talked to any number of vets and they've all said that I'm
giving my cat a VERY healthy diet).

In fact, many of your supplied links copy word for word a single source,
Lisa A. Pierson, DVM as there reference. Lisa A. Pierson, seems to think
that dry food cannot contain animal protein, which of course is not true.
She also seems to offer only her opinion with little evidence to back it up.
She also includes this caveat:

"Information on this site is for general informational purposes only and is
provided without warranty or guarantee of any kind. This site is not
intended to replace professional advice from your own veterinarian and
nothing on this site is intended as a medical diagnosis or treatment. Any
questions about your animal's health should be directed to your
veterinarian."

Also, it seems to me if you're seriously interested in feeding your cats a
"natural" raw diet then you should be feeding them live mice, live birds,
live lizards, etc.. Not only would this be natural but would given them
hours of exercise and stimulation.

Kelly Greene
December 10th 09, 05:53 AM
"sequeena" > wrote in message
...
>I feed my cat dry food. It's much better for her teeth as tinned food
> begins to rot the teeth after a long period of time.
> She is also
> fed raw so there is no need for wet :)
>

Canned food shouldn't rot a cat's teeth. If you believe it does, feed dry
food once a week. Speak to your vet about protecting her teeth. Dry food is
almost all fillers cats can't make much use of. You're paying for filler.
It's better suited to cows and horses and obligate carnivores.

Kelly Greene
December 10th 09, 05:58 AM
"Petzl" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 23:01:16 -0600, "Kelly Greene" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Killfile "cybercat." She's the rudest most foul mouth person of all on
>>any
>>of these cat groups. Replying to her just brings more childish foul mouth
>>insults.
>
> Cybercat has the courage to be direct honest and she appears to be
> mainly correct ......

Correct or not was not the issue. It's her foul and profane insults that
turns people off to her and whatever she has to say. No one deserves the
abuse and insults she throws at them. There's no excuse for her pathetic
nasty behavior on a group of adults.

> You may not like the facts but she like you is a "goodie" and means
> well

If she truly meant well she would learn social skills and not have people
killfile her as an immature profane loser.

> Petzl

Kelly Greene
December 10th 09, 06:02 AM
"Petzl" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 12:22:34 -0500, "cybercat" >
> wrote:
>
>>She has changed email addresses at least three time, because I have
>>killfiled her twice but she keeps coming up. Generally this means someone
>>is here to **** with people.
>>
> That's another possibility she's a troll
> Petzl

I have 2 email addresses and 2 NSPs so that when one is down, I can use the
other. I do not post through Google. Why all the paranoia here? I'm not
the one insulting people and using the gross profanity "cybercat" uses
constantly. Trolls generally insult people and use profanity. I assume you
must be new to Usenet.

Kelly Greene
December 10th 09, 06:22 AM
"Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
...
>
> Also, it seems to me if you're seriously interested in feeding your cats a
> "natural" raw diet then you should be feeding them live mice, live birds,
> live lizards, etc.. Not only would this be natural but would given them
> hours of exercise and stimulation.
>

There are better quality dry foods and I've been trying to get my cats to
eat them, mixed with a better quality canned food. I bought "Wellness" and
"Solid Gold." These were the best I could find where I live. Unlike the
others at the grocery stores, they're not full of grains, i.e. fillers. The
dry foods suspected of possibly causing the health problems are the cheaper
dry foods high in cereal grains and carbohydrates. Cats are not grain
eaters. People feed them exclusively on these cheap dry foods and they
apparently do lack enough animal protein to cause health issues in cats
which are obligate carnivores. The carbs from the grains cause obesity and
ultimately diabetes as they do in human beings. Look at the rate of obesity
and diabetes in the USA. In the state were I live the diabetes rate is 10%
now!!!! Obesity over 30%. Overweight people, over 60%. This is caused by
the excessive carbohydrates in the American diet. Carbs are used to FATTEN
livestock and unfortunately fatten humans and cats as well.

After doing a lot of research on cats and grains and proteins.... I've
decided to get them on a diet of high quality canned cat food mixed with dry
food like Wellness and Solid Gold. This is basically the diet the vet I
worked for years ago was recommending. It's close to the diet I fed my cats
years ago. Vets as long ago as the early 70s suspected the dry foods loaded
with cheap grains (fillers) were associated with obesity, diabetes, kidney
disease in cats - and obesity and diabetes in dogs. These problems were
showing up faster in cats than in dogs back then. But dogs are more
omnivorous than cats.

Kelly Greene
December 10th 09, 06:31 AM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
g.com...
>
> "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "cybercat" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>>>>> g.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "sequeena" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>I feed my cat dry food. It's much better for her teeth as tinned food
>>>>>>> begins to rot the teeth after a long period of time.
>>>>>>> She is also
>>>>>>> fed raw so there is no need for wet :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are absolutely WRONG. Dry food has been proven to cause multiple
>>>>>> problems in cats
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you please provide credible & peer reviewed scientific proof of
>>>>> that assertion?
>>>>
>>>> Google it, asshole.
>>>
>>> YOU made the assertion, it's YOUR responsibility to provide the proof.
>>> Don't expect met to do YOUR homework for you nor go on any wild goose
>>> hunts. If it's been "proven" then it should be easy for you to reply to
>>> my request. Why does simply asking for the proof you've claimed make me
>>> an "asshole"? BTW, ad hominem attacks come from those losing a
>>> discussion.
>>
>> Killfile "cybercat." She's the rudest most foul mouth person of all on
>> any of these cat groups. Replying to her just brings more childish foul
>> mouth insults.
>>
>> 5 years we have been reading the group, other assholes have asked
>>>> for this at least a thousand times. Try this first: cats are
>>>> carnivores. Carnivores eat meat. Canned food is mostly meat. Dry food
>>>> is mostly grains.
>>
>>> Again, I most graciously request that you please provide your credible
>>> peer reviewed scientific evidence, along with cites to those vetenary
>>> medical journals that prove your assertion.
>>>
>
> Sorry you may not like her but she tells it how she sees it Truth hurts
> sometimes

Whose version of the truth hurts? Hers or the scientists who ran the peer
reviewed studies she apparently wont produce when asked? If she cannot
produce such studies she shouldn't make such claims as though they exist.
Now there a truth she (and you) may not like.

There is no reason to use the profanity she uses here. Her juvenile
insults accomplish nothing but getting her killfiled. She loses all
credibility by her cheap common behavior. As another poster suggested, she
should back up her claims with peer reviewed studies should someone request
them.

I myself couldn't find any such studies online although I know there are
vets who advise against feeding the inexpensive dry cat foods full of cheap
fillers/grains.

Kelly Greene
December 10th 09, 06:43 AM
"Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
...
>
> Thank you for adding something reasonable to this discussion. One size
> does not fit everyone and one kind of cat food does work or not work for
> all cats.

Exactly! :-) Ignore the fanatics and their sycophants who make un-provable
claims, than call people profane names if questioned. There are indeed
decent dry cat foods out there. I myself almost bought into the baloney that
*all* dry foods were bad for cats.

>
> Cats have been domesticated for thousands of years, possibly for ten
> thousand years or more. Thus it's very difficult to know exactly what is
> "natural" anymore about a typical domestic cat. However, it would not be
> too dificult to perform very controlled scientific studies comparing
> various wet foods vs. various dry foods over long term in cats.
Any health
> differences would surely show up in such a study.

But who would fund it as it would be very expensive? It would take a large
number of cats and last for years. You're talking millions of dollars. I'm
sure the feed companies wouldn't want to fund it.

So, if anyone has any
> cites to such long term studies of cats showing how "Dry food has been
> proven to cause multiple problems in cats" then please provide links to
> those studies. Thank you.

Don't hold your breath waiting..............

Kelly Greene
December 10th 09, 06:47 AM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
g.com...
>
> "sequeena" > wrote in message
> ...
>>> > I feed my cat dry food. It's much better for her teeth as tinned
>>> > food begins to rot the teeth after a long period of time. She is
>>> > also fed raw so there is no need for wet :)
>>>
>> You are absolutely WRONG. Dry food has been proven to cause
>>> multiple problems in cats
>> Raw is fine as long as you know what
>>> your are doing
>>
>> Wrong eh? Okay that's your opinion :)Not going to argue about it
>> because I know what's better.
>
>
> LOL
> two new idiots come into the group both with less than a couple post Yeah
> Like I am going to take the time to re post all the information

So anyone who doesn't agree with you or who questions what you claim are
idiots? Why don't you provide the peer reviewed long term studies proving
what you claim as one person asked for? Googling brings up no such
scientific studies. Three different search engines produced no such studies.

Again I'll mention that not all dry cat foods are loaded with cheap grain
fillers.

Maynard G. Krebs
December 10th 09, 05:36 PM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Maynard G. Krebs" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>
> There are better quality dry foods and I've been trying to get my cats to
> eat them, mixed with a better quality canned food. I bought "Wellness" and
> "Solid Gold." These were the best I could find where I live. Unlike the
> others at the grocery stores, they're not full of grains, i.e. fillers.

It sounds like you've been reading the labels, which is good. That applies
to buying people food as well.

> The dry foods suspected of possibly causing the health problems are the
> cheaper dry foods high in cereal grains and carbohydrates.

As compared to the cheap canned foods? It apparently doesn't matter whether
it's canned or dry, but the quality of the food that's important.

> Cats are not grain eaters. People feed them exclusively on these cheap
> dry foods and they apparently do lack enough animal protein to cause
> health issues in cats which are obligate carnivores.

But not all dry foods lack animal protien, nor have high levels of
carbohydrates nor fillers. Nor are all canned foods free of such fillers or
poor protein sources. You have to read the labels.

> The carbs from the grains cause obesity and ultimately diabetes as they do
> in human beings. Look at the rate of obesity and diabetes in the USA.

Too many calories cause obesity, both in ourselves and our pets.

> In the state were I live the diabetes rate is 10% now!!!! Obesity over
> 30%. Overweight people, over 60%. This is caused by the excessive
> carbohydrates in the American diet.

Really? You have credible scientific evidence proving that Americans are
overweight because of excessive carbohydrates in their diet? Americans are
overweight because they eat too much. Pets are overweight because we feed
them too much.

> Carbs are used to FATTEN livestock and unfortunately fatten humans and
> cats as well.

Too many calories cause obesity! With respect to obesity it doesn't really
matter whether those calories come from carbohydrates, protein or fats. As
far as carbohydrates go, just like protein, they're not all the same, there
are plenty of poor quality simple\empty carbohydrates like sugar, high
fructose syrup, etc., that one (humans) should limit intake. However,
there are many high quality complex carbohydrates like whole grain & wheat
breads, pasta's, potatoes, fruit, etc.. Even an apple is high in
carbohydrates, at about 95%. Bananas come in at about 92% carbohydrates.
Potatoes (white) come in at about 86% carbohydrates and 14% protein. I
doubt that a diet which include apples, bananas or similar fruit consumption
would lead to obesity in humans.

Anecdotally, I personally follow a low fat, high carbohydrate diet, of 15%
protein, 15% fat and 70% carbohydrate. I'm a 6' 2" 58 year od man and weigh
160 lbs, down from a peak of 252 lbs. I lost that weight over the course of
a year or so and I've maintained my current weight for 5 years. My
cholesterol level fell from about 242 down to about 140! From a higher risk
of diabetes and heart disease to a very low risk. My doctor is delighted!
Now most Americans would find the 15% fat intake very difficult to maintain
because they're used to such a high level fat intake of 40-45%, but even
getting it down to 30-35% would help a lot. Keep in mind that a gram of
fat has about 9 calories vs. a gram of protein or carbohydrate which come in
at about 4.5 calories. So ounce for ounce fat has twice the calories of
protein or carbohydrates. That's one reason I like the low fat regime, I
get a lot more volume of food for the buck so to speak. However, your
mileage may vary! Any food that has a high fat content will also have a
high calorie content. However, the corollary of a low fat content does not
necessarily mean low calorie, because many low fat food items are often
loaded up with other poor contents like high fructose sugars raising there
calorie levels considerably. You have to read the labels to find out! Just
like you need to do when choosing cat food. When people ask how I lost my
weight I tell them I lost it by paying attention!


> After doing a lot of research on cats and grains and proteins.... I've
> decided to get them on a diet of high quality canned cat food mixed with
> dry food like Wellness and Solid Gold.

A mix of high quality canned food & high quality dry food sounds most
reasonable. However, the protein percentage in Wellness seems a bit low at
36% as well as Solid Gold at 34%. These numbers are typical of many dry cat
foods.

http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/cat_wellness_dry_complete_health_chicken.html
http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/index.php?product=4&code=130

You might want to consider EVO dry cat food which comes in at over 50+%
protein and no grain fillers:

http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?panel=na&id=1500

EVO can be a bit hard to find in grocery stores and you'll likely have to go
to a specialty pet store or order online. To find a seller near you go
here:

http://www.evopet.com/where-to-buy/

EVO also has a nice food comparison tool at:

http://www.evopet.com/tools/comparison.asp

I'm not necessarily promoting EVO because there are other dry cat food
products out there with high protein levels, but I cannot recall there names
at the moment. I'm only pointing out that there are very good, high quality
dry cat foods out there that should be very healthy for our cats. You
shouldn't be ashamed, embarrassed or have any need to defend yourself from
"canned\raw food" extremists if you feed you cat with one of those high
quaility dry foods.


> This is basically the diet the vet I worked for years ago was
> recommending. It's close to the diet I fed my cats years ago. Vets as
> long ago as the early 70s suspected the dry foods loaded with cheap grains
> (fillers) were associated with obesity, diabetes, kidney disease in cats -
> and obesity and diabetes in dogs. These problems were showing up faster
> in cats than in dogs back then. But dogs are more omnivorous than cats.

A cheap poor diet will likely result in long term poor health regardless of
whether it's canned or dry.