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Mark Earnest
February 6th 10, 11:12 PM
Who knows what a purr is really all about?

If my cat is purring and I leave her alone, I feel
a bit guilty.

If your cat is purring, and you fail to pet her,
does it hurt her feelings?

jmc
February 6th 10, 11:49 PM
Suddenly, without warning, Mark Earnest exclaimed (2/6/2010 6:12 PM):
> Who knows what a purr is really all about?
>
> If my cat is purring and I leave her alone, I feel
> a bit guilty.
>
> If your cat is purring, and you fail to pet her,
> does it hurt her feelings?
>
>

Pretty much, if I fail to pet my cat when an opportunity presents
itself, it hurts her feelings. She can give such a LOOK - grandmas have
nothing on her!

Actually, I'm pretty sure in her world, I am only here to pet her,
provide a lap, feed her, and clean the litterbox. Pretty much in that
order :)

I love my cat. I think she loves me too, but who can tell? :)

jmc

Bill Graham
February 6th 10, 11:57 PM
"Mark Earnest" > wrote in message
...
> Who knows what a purr is really all about?
>
> If my cat is purring and I leave her alone, I feel
> a bit guilty.
>
> If your cat is purring, and you fail to pet her,
> does it hurt her feelings?
>
>
I doubt it. My cats purr when contented. When they want something, they
"meow" and pester me.

T[_4_]
February 7th 10, 12:05 AM
In article >, weg9
@comcast.net says...
>
> "Mark Earnest" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Who knows what a purr is really all about?
> >
> > If my cat is purring and I leave her alone, I feel
> > a bit guilty.
> >
> > If your cat is purring, and you fail to pet her,
> > does it hurt her feelings?
> >
> >
> I doubt it. My cats purr when contented. When they want something, they
> "meow" and pester me.

Same thing here. Angie is a very vocal cat. When she wants something
(For example, she's a milk hound!) she meows very loudly, it's a very
plaintive cry.

But when she's curled up on my lap or belly, the purring commences.

cybercat
February 7th 10, 02:58 AM
"T" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, weg9
> @comcast.net says...
>>
>> "Mark Earnest" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Who knows what a purr is really all about?
>> >
>> > If my cat is purring and I leave her alone, I feel
>> > a bit guilty.
>> >
>> > If your cat is purring, and you fail to pet her,
>> > does it hurt her feelings?
>> >
>> >
>> I doubt it. My cats purr when contented. When they want something, they
>> "meow" and pester me.
>
> Same thing here. Angie is a very vocal cat. When she wants something
> (For example, she's a milk hound!) she meows very loudly, it's a very
> plaintive cry.
>
> But when she's curled up on my lap or belly, the purring commences.
>

Cats purr when giving birth.

T[_4_]
February 7th 10, 02:59 AM
[This followup was posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav and a copy was
sent to the cited author.]

In article >,
says...
>
> "T" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, weg9
> > @comcast.net says...
> >>
> >> "Mark Earnest" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > Who knows what a purr is really all about?
> >> >
> >> > If my cat is purring and I leave her alone, I feel
> >> > a bit guilty.
> >> >
> >> > If your cat is purring, and you fail to pet her,
> >> > does it hurt her feelings?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> I doubt it. My cats purr when contented. When they want something, they
> >> "meow" and pester me.
> >
> > Same thing here. Angie is a very vocal cat. When she wants something
> > (For example, she's a milk hound!) she meows very loudly, it's a very
> > plaintive cry.
> >
> > But when she's curled up on my lap or belly, the purring commences.
> >
>
> Cats purr when giving birth.


I've never had an un-neutered cat so I wouldn't know.

cybercat
February 7th 10, 03:43 AM
"T" > wrote in message
...
> [This followup was posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav and a copy was
> sent to the cited author.]
>
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> "T" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >, weg9
>> > @comcast.net says...
>> >>
>> >> "Mark Earnest" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> > Who knows what a purr is really all about?
>> >> >
>> >> > If my cat is purring and I leave her alone, I feel
>> >> > a bit guilty.
>> >> >
>> >> > If your cat is purring, and you fail to pet her,
>> >> > does it hurt her feelings?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> I doubt it. My cats purr when contented. When they want something,
>> >> they
>> >> "meow" and pester me.
>> >
>> > Same thing here. Angie is a very vocal cat. When she wants something
>> > (For example, she's a milk hound!) she meows very loudly, it's a very
>> > plaintive cry.
>> >
>> > But when she's curled up on my lap or belly, the purring commences.
>> >
>>
>> Cats purr when giving birth.
>
>
> I've never had an un-neutered cat so I wouldn't know.

Then I am glad to enlighten you. I have adopted two pregnant strays whom I
kept and spayed after finding their kittens (also neutered) homes. Any vet
will tell you that purring is a sign of emotion. The emotion might be
negative or positive.

Mark Earnest
February 7th 10, 04:38 AM
"jmc" > wrote in message
...
> Suddenly, without warning, Mark Earnest exclaimed (2/6/2010 6:12 PM):
>> Who knows what a purr is really all about?
>>
>> If my cat is purring and I leave her alone, I feel
>> a bit guilty.
>>
>> If your cat is purring, and you fail to pet her,
>> does it hurt her feelings?
>>
>>
>
> Pretty much, if I fail to pet my cat when an opportunity presents itself,
> it hurts her feelings. She can give such a LOOK - grandmas have nothing
> on her!
>
> Actually, I'm pretty sure in her world, I am only here to pet her, provide
> a lap, feed her, and clean the litterbox. Pretty much in that order :)
>
> I love my cat. I think she loves me too, but who can tell? :)

Sure cats are hurt whenever they purr and you don't love them back.
Anyone that doesn't know cats can love don't know what love is
to begin with.

John Doe
February 7th 10, 06:44 AM
"cybercat" <cyberpurrs yahoo.com> wrote:

> "T" <kd1s.nospam cox.nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.25d7f68ab9d851ec989c6c news.eternal-september.org...
>> [This followup was posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav and a
>> copy was sent to the cited author.]
>>
>> In article <hkla82$4gq$1 news.eternal-september.org>,
>> cyberpurrs yahoo.com says...
>>>
>>> "T" <kd1s.nospam cox.nospam.net> wrote in message
>>> news:MPG.25d7cdc37239ac16989c68 news.eternal-september.org...
>>> > In article <R7ydnVVoEo2Wn_PWnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d giganews.com>,
>>> > weg9
>>> > comcast.net says...
>>> >>
>>> >> "Mark Earnest" <gmearnest yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> >> news:iYWdndFq-YfGavDWnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d
>>> >> posted.internetamerica...
>>> >> > Who knows what a purr is really all about?
>>> >> >
>>> >> > If my cat is purring and I leave her alone, I feel
>>> >> > a bit guilty.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > If your cat is purring, and you fail to pet her,
>>> >> > does it hurt her feelings?
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> I doubt it. My cats purr when contented. When they want
>>> >> something, they "meow" and pester me.
>>> >
>>> > Same thing here. Angie is a very vocal cat. When she wants
>>> > something (For example, she's a milk hound!) she meows very
>>> > loudly, it's a very plaintive cry.
>>> >
>>> > But when she's curled up on my lap or belly, the purring
>>> > commences.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Cats purr when giving birth.
>>
>>
>> I've never had an un-neutered cat so I wouldn't know.
>
> Then I am glad to enlighten you. I have adopted two pregnant
> strays whom I kept and spayed after finding their kittens (also
> neutered) homes. Any vet will tell you that purring is a sign of
> emotion. The emotion might be negative or positive.

JudgeMental (a.k.a. cybercat/whatever) is a regular troll who is
desperate for attention and regularly spews bull**** here in this
group. Yes, of course cats purr when they are contented. All you
have to do is notice that when they are riled, they stop purring.
Any sensitive person can tell that (that excludes the creep
JudgeMental).



A Skyway for exercising cats...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
--



















>
>
>

> Path: news.astraweb.com!border5.newsrouter.astraweb.com! news.astraweb.com!border1.a.newsrouter.astraweb.co m!news.netcologne.de!ramfeed1.netcologne.de!newsfe ed.freenet.ag!feeder.erje.net!feeder.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: "cybercat" <cyberpurrs yahoo.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> Subject: Re: Cat Psychology
> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:43:36 -0500
> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
> Lines: 47
> Message-ID: <hklctc$nd8$1 news.eternal-september.org>
> References: <iYWdndFq-YfGavDWnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d posted.internetamerica> <R7ydnVVoEo2Wn_PWnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d giganews.com> <MPG.25d7cdc37239ac16989c68 news.eternal-september.org> <hkla82$4gq$1 news.eternal-september.org> <MPG.25d7f68ab9d851ec989c6c news.eternal-september.org>
> Injection-Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 03:43:41 +0000 (UTC)
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> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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>

cybercat
February 7th 10, 06:49 AM
"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
> "cybercat" <cyberpurrs yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> "T" <kd1s.nospam cox.nospam.net> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.25d7f68ab9d851ec989c6c news.eternal-september.org...
>>> [This followup was posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav and a
>>> copy was sent to the cited author.]
>>>
>>> In article <hkla82$4gq$1 news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> cyberpurrs yahoo.com says...
>>>>
>>>> "T" <kd1s.nospam cox.nospam.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:MPG.25d7cdc37239ac16989c68 news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> > In article <R7ydnVVoEo2Wn_PWnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d giganews.com>,
>>>> > weg9
>>>> > comcast.net says...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "Mark Earnest" <gmearnest yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> >> news:iYWdndFq-YfGavDWnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d
>>>> >> posted.internetamerica...
>>>> >> > Who knows what a purr is really all about?
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > If my cat is purring and I leave her alone, I feel
>>>> >> > a bit guilty.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > If your cat is purring, and you fail to pet her,
>>>> >> > does it hurt her feelings?
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> I doubt it. My cats purr when contented. When they want
>>>> >> something, they "meow" and pester me.
>>>> >
>>>> > Same thing here. Angie is a very vocal cat. When she wants
>>>> > something (For example, she's a milk hound!) she meows very
>>>> > loudly, it's a very plaintive cry.
>>>> >
>>>> > But when she's curled up on my lap or belly, the purring
>>>> > commences.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Cats purr when giving birth.
>>>
>>>
>>> I've never had an un-neutered cat so I wouldn't know.
>>
>> Then I am glad to enlighten you. I have adopted two pregnant
>> strays whom I kept and spayed after finding their kittens (also
>> neutered) homes. Any vet will tell you that purring is a sign of
>> emotion. The emotion might be negative or positive.
>
> JudgeMental (a.k.a. cybercat/whatever) is a regular troll who is
> desperate for attention and regularly spews bull**** here in this
> group. Yes, of course cats purr when they are contented. All you
> have to do is notice that when they are riled, they stop purring.
> Any sensitive person can tell that (that excludes the creep
> JudgeMental).
>
>
>
> A Skyway for exercising cats...
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>
>> Path:
>> news.astraweb.com!border5.newsrouter.astraweb.com! news.astraweb.com!border1.a.newsrouter.astraweb.co m!news.netcologne.de!ramfeed1.netcologne.de!newsfe ed.freenet.ag!feeder.erje.net!feeder.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>> From: "cybercat" <cyberpurrs yahoo.com>
>> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
>> Subject: Re: Cat Psychology
>> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:43:36 -0500
>> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
>> Lines: 47
>> Message-ID: <hklctc$nd8$1 news.eternal-september.org>
>> References: <iYWdndFq-YfGavDWnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d posted.internetamerica>
>> <R7ydnVVoEo2Wn_PWnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d giganews.com>
>> <MPG.25d7cdc37239ac16989c68 news.eternal-september.org> <hkla82$4gq$1
>> news.eternal-september.org> <MPG.25d7f68ab9d851ec989c6c
>> news.eternal-september.org>
>> Injection-Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 03:43:41 +0000 (UTC)
>> Injection-Info: feeder.eternal-september.org;
>> posting-host="aLmO/60xN+Z1/Inx8VJdhg"; logging-data="23976";
>> mail-complaints-to="abuse eternal-september.org";
>> posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+YCWk3sYlueL52le+FjSX3WcrkMSD6X1c="
>> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579
>> X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
>> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843
>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:qA2zDCEOTAF37R9iF+qJ0pE4KAI=
>> X-Priority: 3
>> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>>
>>

Mark, do we really need to do this again? Boundaries, man. Boundaries.

Stan Brown
February 7th 10, 03:44 PM
Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:38:52 -0600 from Mark Earnest
>:
> Sure cats are hurt whenever they purr and you don't love them back.
> Anyone that doesn't know cats can love don't know what love is
> to begin with.

Sentimental twaddle.

Cats are out for themselves. Through the luck of the evolutionary
draw, their natural behavior (snuggling, purring) mimics affection in
the eyes of us, their humans, but it's not love.

It's really an excellent example of symbiosis. They have managed to
fill a niche in our houses without being expected to do tricks, like
dogs.

Don't get me wrong -- I love cats in general and mine in particular.
But I have no illusion that he has similar feelings for me.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

Stan Brown
February 7th 10, 03:50 PM
07 Feb 2010 06:44:54 GMT from John Doe >:
> Yes, of course cats purr when they are contented. All you
> have to do is notice that when they are riled, they stop purring.

Thanks for playing, but no.

See, for example,
http://www.animalvoice.com/catpur.htm
where you can read

"they do purr when they are content. However they also purr when
frightened, severly injured, giving birth and even while dying.
Because of this, the contentment hypothesis clearly cannot be the
only reason cats purr."


--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

cybercat
February 7th 10, 06:23 PM
"Stan Brown" > wrote in message
t...
> 07 Feb 2010 06:44:54 GMT from John Doe >:
>> Yes, of course cats purr when they are contented. All you
>> have to do is notice that when they are riled, they stop purring.
>
> Thanks for playing, but no.
>
> See, for example,
> http://www.animalvoice.com/catpur.htm
> where you can read
>
> "they do purr when they are content. However they also purr when
> frightened, severly injured, giving birth and even while dying.
> Because of this, the contentment hypothesis clearly cannot be the
> only reason cats purr."
>

Yes, I thought I remembered that about purring during death.

February 7th 10, 08:04 PM
On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:23:47 -0500, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>
>"Stan Brown" > wrote in message
t...
>> 07 Feb 2010 06:44:54 GMT from John Doe >:
>>> Yes, of course cats purr when they are contented. All you
>>> have to do is notice that when they are riled, they stop purring.
>>
>> Thanks for playing, but no.
>>
>> See, for example,
>> http://www.animalvoice.com/catpur.htm
>> where you can read
>>
>> "they do purr when they are content. However they also purr when
>> frightened, severly injured, giving birth and even while dying.
>> Because of this, the contentment hypothesis clearly cannot be the
>> only reason cats purr."
>>
>
>Yes, I thought I remembered that about purring during death.

I had a 12-YO orange tabby named Murphy. One day I noticed he never
left his favorite spot on the windowsill. I took him to the vet and
was told he was in complete organ failure and would die within hours,
so I had him euthanized. I can't tell you the heartbreak of him
purring in my arms when the shot was administered.

Mark Earnest
February 7th 10, 08:33 PM
"Stan Brown" > wrote in message
t...
> Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:38:52 -0600 from Mark Earnest
> >:
>> Sure cats are hurt whenever they purr and you don't love them back.
>> Anyone that doesn't know cats can love don't know what love is
>> to begin with.
>
> Sentimental twaddle.

Wouldn't a proper forum on cats be all about sentiments?


>
> Cats are out for themselves. Through the luck of the evolutionary
> draw, their natural behavior (snuggling, purring) mimics affection in
> the eyes of us, their humans, but it's not love.
>
> It's really an excellent example of symbiosis. They have managed to
> fill a niche in our houses without being expected to do tricks, like
> dogs.
>
> Don't get me wrong -- I love cats in general and mine in particular.
> But I have no illusion that he has similar feelings for me.

Then I guess you never had your tomcat bring you a bird or lizard
it killed especially for you.

Netmask[_2_]
February 8th 10, 01:14 AM
On 7/02/2010 10:12, Mark Earnest wrote:
> Who knows what a purr is really all about?
>
> If my cat is purring and I leave her alone, I feel
> a bit guilty.
>
> If your cat is purring, and you fail to pet her,
> does it hurt her feelings?
>
>


Purring is the cat version of "Whistle a Happy Tune"


Whenever I feel afraid
I hold my head erect
And whistle a happy tune
So no one will suspect
I'm afraid.

While shivering in my shoes
I strike a careless pose
And whistle a happy tune
And no one ever knows
I'm afraid.

The result of this deception
Is very strange to tell
For when I fool the people
I fear I fool myself as well!

I whistle a happy tune
And ev'ry single time
The happiness in the tune
Convinces me that I'm not afraid.

Make believe you're brave
And the trick will take you far.
You may be as brave
As you make believe you are

You may be as brave
As you make believe you are

Stan Brown
February 8th 10, 02:36 AM
Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:33:54 -0600 from Mark Earnest
>:
>
> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
> t...
> > Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:38:52 -0600 from Mark Earnest
> > >:
> >> Sure cats are hurt whenever they purr and you don't love them back.
> >> Anyone that doesn't know cats can love don't know what love is
> >> to begin with.
> >
> > Sentimental twaddle.
>
> Wouldn't a proper forum on cats be all about sentiments?

Not "all" about, but sentiment is certainly a large part. It's not
the sentiment I object to, but the twaddle.

> > Don't get me wrong -- I love cats in general and mine in
> > particular. But I have no illusion that he has similar feelings
> > for me.
>
> Then I guess you never had your tomcat bring you a bird or lizard
> it killed especially for you.

A mouse, actually, but what has that to do with love?

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

Mark Earnest
February 8th 10, 02:53 AM
"Stan Brown" > wrote in message
t...
> Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:33:54 -0600 from Mark Earnest
> >:
>>
>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>> t...
>> > Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:38:52 -0600 from Mark Earnest
>> > >:
>> >> Sure cats are hurt whenever they purr and you don't love them back.
>> >> Anyone that doesn't know cats can love don't know what love is
>> >> to begin with.
>> >
>> > Sentimental twaddle.
>>
>> Wouldn't a proper forum on cats be all about sentiments?
>
> Not "all" about, but sentiment is certainly a large part. It's not
> the sentiment I object to, but the twaddle.

What is twaddle about love?
That is the motivating force of the world.
If you are embarassed by the word love, you should have nothing
to do with cats then.


>
>> > Don't get me wrong -- I love cats in general and mine in
>> > particular. But I have no illusion that he has similar feelings
>> > for me.
>>
>> Then I guess you never had your tomcat bring you a bird or lizard
>> it killed especially for you.
>
> A mouse, actually, but what has that to do with love?

The cat gave that to you you. He went out of his way to get that for you.

cybercat
February 8th 10, 09:01 PM
"Stan Brown" > wrote in message
t...
> Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:33:54 -0600 from Mark Earnest
> >:
>>
>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>> t...
>> > Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:38:52 -0600 from Mark Earnest
>> > >:
>> >> Sure cats are hurt whenever they purr and you don't love them back.
>> >> Anyone that doesn't know cats can love don't know what love is
>> >> to begin with.
>> >
>> > Sentimental twaddle.
>>
>> Wouldn't a proper forum on cats be all about sentiments?
>
> Not "all" about, but sentiment is certainly a large part. It's not
> the sentiment I object to, but the twaddle.
>
>> > Don't get me wrong -- I love cats in general and mine in
>> > particular. But I have no illusion that he has similar feelings
>> > for me.
>>
>> Then I guess you never had your tomcat bring you a bird or lizard
>> it killed especially for you.
>
> A mouse, actually, but what has that to do with love?
>

I am not sure you should have cats, Stan. A short while ago I had a migraine
and the accompanying terribly retching. You would think my old cat would run
for the hills. Instead, she hovered, stayed close to me, tried to sleep
right up against me until she read my signals and saw that I really needed
to be left alone. It was unusual behavior for her. Every time I opened the
bathroom door she was there looking worried, and she followed me back to
bed, jumped up, and meowed questioningly. This is not anthropomorphism. It
was not feeding time. She was worried about me. They most certainly do love.
And presenting prey is indeed done in part to show their esteem.

---MIKE---
February 8th 10, 11:15 PM
A few years ago I spent a week in the hospital with sepsis. The cats
were fed by a neighbor. Amber was so stressed that she licked all the
fur off of a big spot on one side. The vet gave her a prednisone shot
and the fur grew back. I'm pretty sure that Amber loves me and missed
me. My absence didn't seem to bother Tiger at all.


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')

Bill Graham
February 9th 10, 07:01 AM
"Stan Brown" > wrote in message
t...
> Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:33:54 -0600 from Mark Earnest
> >:
>>
>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>> t...
>> > Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:38:52 -0600 from Mark Earnest
>> > >:
>> >> Sure cats are hurt whenever they purr and you don't love them back.
>> >> Anyone that doesn't know cats can love don't know what love is
>> >> to begin with.
>> >
>> > Sentimental twaddle.
>>
>> Wouldn't a proper forum on cats be all about sentiments?
>
> Not "all" about, but sentiment is certainly a large part. It's not
> the sentiment I object to, but the twaddle.
>
>> > Don't get me wrong -- I love cats in general and mine in
>> > particular. But I have no illusion that he has similar feelings
>> > for me.
>>
>> Then I guess you never had your tomcat bring you a bird or lizard
>> it killed especially for you.
>
> A mouse, actually, but what has that to do with love?
>
Well, I don't know whether it's love or not, but if you could see the way my
cats act when my wife goes down to California for a week or so to visit her
grandkids, you would know that there is something they feel for her. It
isn't just food, because I feed them just as well as she does. And it isn't
just the brushing, because I brush them just as much as she does.....So what
is it about her that they like so much? When she is gone, they treat me like
it's my fault she went away, and they shine up to me so that I will bring
her back.....And, it works.....After a while she comes back! And they are
very happy.....You can almost see them high fiveing each other, and saying,
"We were successful again..... dad brought her back."

Mark Earnest
February 9th 10, 07:38 AM
"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
> t...
>> Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:33:54 -0600 from Mark Earnest
>> >:
>>>
>>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>>> t...
>>> > Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:38:52 -0600 from Mark Earnest
>>> > >:
>>> >> Sure cats are hurt whenever they purr and you don't love them back.
>>> >> Anyone that doesn't know cats can love don't know what love is
>>> >> to begin with.
>>> >
>>> > Sentimental twaddle.
>>>
>>> Wouldn't a proper forum on cats be all about sentiments?
>>
>> Not "all" about, but sentiment is certainly a large part. It's not
>> the sentiment I object to, but the twaddle.
>>
>>> > Don't get me wrong -- I love cats in general and mine in
>>> > particular. But I have no illusion that he has similar feelings
>>> > for me.
>>>
>>> Then I guess you never had your tomcat bring you a bird or lizard
>>> it killed especially for you.
>>
>> A mouse, actually, but what has that to do with love?
>>
> Well, I don't know whether it's love or not, but if you could see the way
> my cats act when my wife goes down to California for a week or so to visit
> her grandkids, you would know that there is something they feel for her.
> It isn't just food, because I feed them just as well as she does. And it
> isn't just the brushing, because I brush them just as much as she
> does.....So what is it about her that they like so much? When she is gone,
> they treat me like it's my fault she went away, and they shine up to me so
> that I will bring her back.....And, it works.....After a while she comes
> back! And they are very happy.....You can almost see them high fiveing
> each other, and saying, "We were successful again..... dad brought her
> back."

See, when you live with cats long enough, you learn their language.
It is more the way they treat you than language, but language nonetheless.
>

Bill Graham
February 9th 10, 07:56 AM
"Mark Earnest" > wrote in message
netamerica...
>
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>> t...
>>> Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:33:54 -0600 from Mark Earnest
>>> >:
>>>>
>>>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>>>> t...
>>>> > Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:38:52 -0600 from Mark Earnest
>>>> > >:
>>>> >> Sure cats are hurt whenever they purr and you don't love them back.
>>>> >> Anyone that doesn't know cats can love don't know what love is
>>>> >> to begin with.
>>>> >
>>>> > Sentimental twaddle.
>>>>
>>>> Wouldn't a proper forum on cats be all about sentiments?
>>>
>>> Not "all" about, but sentiment is certainly a large part. It's not
>>> the sentiment I object to, but the twaddle.
>>>
>>>> > Don't get me wrong -- I love cats in general and mine in
>>>> > particular. But I have no illusion that he has similar feelings
>>>> > for me.
>>>>
>>>> Then I guess you never had your tomcat bring you a bird or lizard
>>>> it killed especially for you.
>>>
>>> A mouse, actually, but what has that to do with love?
>>>
>> Well, I don't know whether it's love or not, but if you could see the way
>> my cats act when my wife goes down to California for a week or so to
>> visit her grandkids, you would know that there is something they feel for
>> her. It isn't just food, because I feed them just as well as she does.
>> And it isn't just the brushing, because I brush them just as much as she
>> does.....So what is it about her that they like so much? When she is
>> gone, they treat me like it's my fault she went away, and they shine up
>> to me so that I will bring her back.....And, it works.....After a while
>> she comes back! And they are very happy.....You can almost see them high
>> fiveing each other, and saying, "We were successful again..... dad
>> brought her back."
>
> See, when you live with cats long enough, you learn their language.
> It is more the way they treat you than language, but language nonetheless.
>>

Well, I have one that responds to a dog whistle......I can go out on the
front porch and blow the whistle three times, and in about 5 minutes, he
comes running down the block......Sure, I give him a goodie.....Usually a
bowl of milk.....But he did this from the get go, without any training on my
part. I have had many cats, but this is the only one that comes when I call
him like a dog would......

Mark Earnest
February 9th 10, 08:18 AM
"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mark Earnest" > wrote in message
> netamerica...
>>
>> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>>> t...
>>>> Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:33:54 -0600 from Mark Earnest
>>>> >:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>>>>> t...
>>>>> > Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:38:52 -0600 from Mark Earnest
>>>>> > >:
>>>>> >> Sure cats are hurt whenever they purr and you don't love them back.
>>>>> >> Anyone that doesn't know cats can love don't know what love is
>>>>> >> to begin with.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Sentimental twaddle.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wouldn't a proper forum on cats be all about sentiments?
>>>>
>>>> Not "all" about, but sentiment is certainly a large part. It's not
>>>> the sentiment I object to, but the twaddle.
>>>>
>>>>> > Don't get me wrong -- I love cats in general and mine in
>>>>> > particular. But I have no illusion that he has similar feelings
>>>>> > for me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then I guess you never had your tomcat bring you a bird or lizard
>>>>> it killed especially for you.
>>>>
>>>> A mouse, actually, but what has that to do with love?
>>>>
>>> Well, I don't know whether it's love or not, but if you could see the
>>> way my cats act when my wife goes down to California for a week or so to
>>> visit her grandkids, you would know that there is something they feel
>>> for her. It isn't just food, because I feed them just as well as she
>>> does. And it isn't just the brushing, because I brush them just as much
>>> as she does.....So what is it about her that they like so much? When she
>>> is gone, they treat me like it's my fault she went away, and they shine
>>> up to me so that I will bring her back.....And, it works.....After a
>>> while she comes back! And they are very happy.....You can almost see
>>> them high fiveing each other, and saying, "We were successful again.....
>>> dad brought her back."
>>
>> See, when you live with cats long enough, you learn their language.
>> It is more the way they treat you than language, but language
>> nonetheless.
>>>
>
> Well, I have one that responds to a dog whistle......I can go out on the
> front porch and blow the whistle three times, and in about 5 minutes, he
> comes running down the block......Sure, I give him a goodie.....Usually a
> bowl of milk.....But he did this from the get go, without any training on
> my part. I have had many cats, but this is the only one that comes when I
> call him like a dog would......

Then not only do you know your cats language, but one of your cats
knows your language, in this case, a shrill noise silent to the human ear.

Bill Graham
February 9th 10, 09:08 AM
"Mark Earnest" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Mark Earnest" > wrote in message
>> netamerica...
>>>
>>> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>>>> t...
>>>>> Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:33:54 -0600 from Mark Earnest
>>>>> >:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>>>>>> t...
>>>>>> > Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:38:52 -0600 from Mark Earnest
>>>>>> > >:
>>>>>> >> Sure cats are hurt whenever they purr and you don't love them
>>>>>> >> back.
>>>>>> >> Anyone that doesn't know cats can love don't know what love is
>>>>>> >> to begin with.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Sentimental twaddle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wouldn't a proper forum on cats be all about sentiments?
>>>>>
>>>>> Not "all" about, but sentiment is certainly a large part. It's not
>>>>> the sentiment I object to, but the twaddle.
>>>>>
>>>>>> > Don't get me wrong -- I love cats in general and mine in
>>>>>> > particular. But I have no illusion that he has similar feelings
>>>>>> > for me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then I guess you never had your tomcat bring you a bird or lizard
>>>>>> it killed especially for you.
>>>>>
>>>>> A mouse, actually, but what has that to do with love?
>>>>>
>>>> Well, I don't know whether it's love or not, but if you could see the
>>>> way my cats act when my wife goes down to California for a week or so
>>>> to visit her grandkids, you would know that there is something they
>>>> feel for her. It isn't just food, because I feed them just as well as
>>>> she does. And it isn't just the brushing, because I brush them just as
>>>> much as she does.....So what is it about her that they like so much?
>>>> When she is gone, they treat me like it's my fault she went away, and
>>>> they shine up to me so that I will bring her back.....And, it
>>>> works.....After a while she comes back! And they are very
>>>> happy.....You can almost see them high fiveing each other, and saying,
>>>> "We were successful again..... dad brought her back."
>>>
>>> See, when you live with cats long enough, you learn their language.
>>> It is more the way they treat you than language, but language
>>> nonetheless.
>>>>
>>
>> Well, I have one that responds to a dog whistle......I can go out on the
>> front porch and blow the whistle three times, and in about 5 minutes, he
>> comes running down the block......Sure, I give him a goodie.....Usually a
>> bowl of milk.....But he did this from the get go, without any training on
>> my part. I have had many cats, but this is the only one that comes when I
>> call him like a dog would......
>
> Then not only do you know your cats language, but one of your cats
> knows your language, in this case, a shrill noise silent to the human ear.
>
>
Yes....Well, to be fair, it started when he was young and very happy with
me, because I took him out of a Burger King parking lot, and brought him
home and fed him some real cat chow. At that time, he came running no matter
what noise I made, just because he was so happy to be around. Then he
shortly learned to associate the dog whistle with me and some goodie or
other, so now he probably just comes for the goodie.....The parking lot is
around five years ago, so I doubt if he remembers it any more.

T[_4_]
February 9th 10, 07:49 PM
[This followup was posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav and a copy was
sent to the cited author.]

In article >, weg9
@comcast.net says...
>
> "Mark Earnest" > wrote in message
> netamerica...
> >
> > "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
> >> t...
> >>> Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:33:54 -0600 from Mark Earnest
> >>> >:
> >>>>
> >>>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
> >>>> t...
> >>>> > Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:38:52 -0600 from Mark Earnest
> >>>> > >:
> >>>> >> Sure cats are hurt whenever they purr and you don't love them back.
> >>>> >> Anyone that doesn't know cats can love don't know what love is
> >>>> >> to begin with.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Sentimental twaddle.
> >>>>
> >>>> Wouldn't a proper forum on cats be all about sentiments?
> >>>
> >>> Not "all" about, but sentiment is certainly a large part. It's not
> >>> the sentiment I object to, but the twaddle.
> >>>
> >>>> > Don't get me wrong -- I love cats in general and mine in
> >>>> > particular. But I have no illusion that he has similar feelings
> >>>> > for me.
> >>>>
> >>>> Then I guess you never had your tomcat bring you a bird or lizard
> >>>> it killed especially for you.
> >>>
> >>> A mouse, actually, but what has that to do with love?
> >>>
> >> Well, I don't know whether it's love or not, but if you could see the way
> >> my cats act when my wife goes down to California for a week or so to
> >> visit her grandkids, you would know that there is something they feel for
> >> her. It isn't just food, because I feed them just as well as she does.
> >> And it isn't just the brushing, because I brush them just as much as she
> >> does.....So what is it about her that they like so much? When she is
> >> gone, they treat me like it's my fault she went away, and they shine up
> >> to me so that I will bring her back.....And, it works.....After a while
> >> she comes back! And they are very happy.....You can almost see them high
> >> fiveing each other, and saying, "We were successful again..... dad
> >> brought her back."
> >
> > See, when you live with cats long enough, you learn their language.
> > It is more the way they treat you than language, but language nonetheless.
> >>
>
> Well, I have one that responds to a dog whistle......I can go out on the
> front porch and blow the whistle three times, and in about 5 minutes, he
> comes running down the block......Sure, I give him a goodie.....Usually a
> bowl of milk.....But he did this from the get go, without any training on my
> part. I have had many cats, but this is the only one that comes when I call
> him like a dog would......


Indeed, some cats are pretty smart. My first cat played fetch. I'd throw
a busy ball and he'd run, pick it up with his mouth and bring it back to
me so I could throw it again.

jmc
February 9th 10, 08:18 PM
Suddenly, without warning, cybercat exclaimed (2/8/2010 4:01 PM):
> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
> t...
>> Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:33:54 -0600 from Mark Earnest
>> >:
>>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>>> t...
>>>> Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:38:52 -0600 from Mark Earnest
>>>> >:
>>>>> Sure cats are hurt whenever they purr and you don't love them back.
>>>>> Anyone that doesn't know cats can love don't know what love is
>>>>> to begin with.
>>>> Sentimental twaddle.
>>> Wouldn't a proper forum on cats be all about sentiments?
>> Not "all" about, but sentiment is certainly a large part. It's not
>> the sentiment I object to, but the twaddle.
>>
>>>> Don't get me wrong -- I love cats in general and mine in
>>>> particular. But I have no illusion that he has similar feelings
>>>> for me.
>>> Then I guess you never had your tomcat bring you a bird or lizard
>>> it killed especially for you.
>> A mouse, actually, but what has that to do with love?
>>
>
> I am not sure you should have cats, Stan. A short while ago I had a migraine
> and the accompanying terribly retching. You would think my old cat would run
> for the hills. Instead, she hovered, stayed close to me, tried to sleep
> right up against me until she read my signals and saw that I really needed
> to be left alone. It was unusual behavior for her. Every time I opened the
> bathroom door she was there looking worried, and she followed me back to
> bed, jumped up, and meowed questioningly. This is not anthropomorphism. It
> was not feeding time. She was worried about me. They most certainly do love.
> And presenting prey is indeed done in part to show their esteem.
>
>

I've heard a couple of theories on the mouse-gift behavior:

1. It's a present
2. They're showing off - look at me the mighty hunter!
3. They are trying to help - you go out all the time and never bring
back any food (cats likely don't understand groceries, per this theory),
so they think you're a terrible hunter and are trying to help.

#3 sounds real cute except they do see us eat :)

Knowing cats, I'm going with a combination of #1 and #2 :)

As far as the worried behavior when you're sick - Yes, Meep does that
too. It's very comforting when I feel like crap, to have her curl up
near me and purr.

jmc

Mark Earnest
February 9th 10, 09:21 PM
"jmc" > wrote in message
...
> Suddenly, without warning, cybercat exclaimed (2/8/2010 4:01 PM):
>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>> t...
>>> Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:33:54 -0600 from Mark Earnest
>>> >:
>>>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>>>> t...
>>>>> Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:38:52 -0600 from Mark Earnest
>>>>> >:
>>>>>> Sure cats are hurt whenever they purr and you don't love them back.
>>>>>> Anyone that doesn't know cats can love don't know what love is
>>>>>> to begin with.
>>>>> Sentimental twaddle.
>>>> Wouldn't a proper forum on cats be all about sentiments?
>>> Not "all" about, but sentiment is certainly a large part. It's not
>>> the sentiment I object to, but the twaddle.
>>>
>>>>> Don't get me wrong -- I love cats in general and mine in
>>>>> particular. But I have no illusion that he has similar feelings
>>>>> for me.
>>>> Then I guess you never had your tomcat bring you a bird or lizard
>>>> it killed especially for you.
>>> A mouse, actually, but what has that to do with love?
>>>
>>
>> I am not sure you should have cats, Stan. A short while ago I had a
>> migraine and the accompanying terribly retching. You would think my old
>> cat would run for the hills. Instead, she hovered, stayed close to me,
>> tried to sleep right up against me until she read my signals and saw that
>> I really needed to be left alone. It was unusual behavior for her. Every
>> time I opened the bathroom door she was there looking worried, and she
>> followed me back to bed, jumped up, and meowed questioningly. This is not
>> anthropomorphism. It was not feeding time. She was worried about me. They
>> most certainly do love. And presenting prey is indeed done in part to
>> show their esteem.
>
> I've heard a couple of theories on the mouse-gift behavior:
>
> 1. It's a present
> 2. They're showing off - look at me the mighty hunter!
> 3. They are trying to help - you go out all the time and never bring back
> any food (cats likely don't understand groceries, per this theory), so
> they think you're a terrible hunter and are trying to help.

or 4. "I've rid the Earth of another vile creature, to pay you back
for feeding me."

cybercat
February 10th 10, 04:01 AM
"T" > wrote
>> Well, I have one that responds to a dog whistle......I can go out on the
>> front porch and blow the whistle three times, and in about 5 minutes, he
>> comes running down the block......Sure, I give him a goodie.....Usually a
>> bowl of milk.....But he did this from the get go, without any training on
>> my
>> part. I have had many cats, but this is the only one that comes when I
>> call
>> him like a dog would......
>

How many of your cats have been hit by cars?

Bill Graham
February 10th 10, 08:12 AM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "T" > wrote
>>> Well, I have one that responds to a dog whistle......I can go out on the
>>> front porch and blow the whistle three times, and in about 5 minutes, he
>>> comes running down the block......Sure, I give him a goodie.....Usually
>>> a
>>> bowl of milk.....But he did this from the get go, without any training
>>> on my
>>> part. I have had many cats, but this is the only one that comes when I
>>> call
>>> him like a dog would......
>>
>
> How many of your cats have been hit by cars?
>
I've never had a cat that died via automobile, but I had one that had a limp
and a lump when we got her.....She came with the house. I don't know how she
got the limp and lump, but I speculate that it could well have been because
of a run-in with a car.
In any case I don't want to have another session about inside/outside
cat arguments.....It's ground that has been gone over many times before. All
of my cats were outside cats when I got them, and have remained so after I
got them. If I lived in downtown New York City, this wouldn't be the case,
but I don't. You don't know where I live, and so you can't give me any
advice on this issue.....'nough said.....

Stan Brown
February 10th 10, 01:09 PM
Mon, 8 Feb 2010 23:01:51 -0800 from Bill Graham >:
> Well, I don't know whether it's love or not, but if you could see the way my
> cats act when my wife goes down to California for a week or so to visit her
> grandkids, you would know that there is something they feel for her.

We're both speculating here, but I'll bet you they would feel that
way about any significant change. Cats really, really like
predictability and hate change. After all, they spend a large part
of their day checking their territory to make sure nothing has
changed. When they seem to be missing a "loved one", I believe
they're simply disoriented by the change.

I can't prove that, but it seems consistent with what we do know.
After all, it's well known that their "affectionate" behaviors are
all either for their own comfort or ways of manipulating us, at which
they're astonishingly good.


--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

Stan Brown
February 10th 10, 01:11 PM
Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:49:02 -0500 from T >:
> Indeed, some cats are pretty smart. My first cat played fetch. I'd throw
> a busy ball and he'd run, pick it up with his mouth and bring it back to
> me so I could throw it again.

So he's got you trained. :-)

Destructo the Visigoth has similarly trained me to play fetch with
Squeaky Mouse.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

cybercat
February 10th 10, 03:45 PM
"Stan Brown" > wrote in message
...
> Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:49:02 -0500 from T >:
>> Indeed, some cats are pretty smart. My first cat played fetch. I'd throw
>> a busy ball and he'd run, pick it up with his mouth and bring it back to
>> me so I could throw it again.
>
> So he's got you trained. :-)
>
> Destructo the Visigoth has similarly trained me to play fetch with
> Squeaky Mouse.
>
> --
> Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
> http://OakRoadSystems.com

I'll take that as 1-3. Ass.

T[_4_]
February 10th 10, 09:40 PM
In article >,
says...
>
> Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:49:02 -0500 from T >:
> > Indeed, some cats are pretty smart. My first cat played fetch. I'd throw
> > a busy ball and he'd run, pick it up with his mouth and bring it back to
> > me so I could throw it again.
>
> So he's got you trained. :-)
>
> Destructo the Visigoth has similarly trained me to play fetch with
> Squeaky Mouse.

He had me trained yes, but I'd had him since he was a 12 week old
kitten.

He's been dead for a few years now. I wish I could have another cat like
him.

Mark Earnest
February 10th 10, 11:21 PM
"T" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:49:02 -0500 from T >:
>> > Indeed, some cats are pretty smart. My first cat played fetch. I'd
>> > throw
>> > a busy ball and he'd run, pick it up with his mouth and bring it back
>> > to
>> > me so I could throw it again.
>>
>> So he's got you trained. :-)
>>
>> Destructo the Visigoth has similarly trained me to play fetch with
>> Squeaky Mouse.
>
> He had me trained yes, but I'd had him since he was a 12 week old
> kitten.
>
> He's been dead for a few years now. I wish I could have another cat like
> him.

Every cat has some kind of specialty like that, you just have
to get to know your cat to find out just what it is.

MLB[_2_]
February 11th 10, 05:59 PM
Bill Graham wrote:
>
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "T" > wrote
>>>> Well, I have one that responds to a dog whistle......I can go out on
>>>> the
>>>> front porch and blow the whistle three times, and in about 5
>>>> minutes, he
>>>> comes running down the block......Sure, I give him a
>>>> goodie.....Usually a
>>>> bowl of milk.....But he did this from the get go, without any
>>>> training on my
>>>> part. I have had many cats, but this is the only one that comes when
>>>> I call
>>>> him like a dog would......
>>>
>>
>> How many of your cats have been hit by cars?
>>
> I've never had a cat that died via automobile, but I had one that had a
> limp and a lump when we got her.....She came with the house. I don't
> know how she got the limp and lump, but I speculate that it could well
> have been because of a run-in with a car.
> In any case I don't want to have another session about inside/outside
> cat arguments.....It's ground that has been gone over many times before.
> All of my cats were outside cats when I got them, and have remained so
> after I got them. If I lived in downtown New York City, this wouldn't be
> the case, but I don't. You don't know where I live, and so you can't
> give me any advice on this issue.....'nough said.....


Yes, the discussion does get old. However, there are always new posters
arriving here and others have departed. It is something some of the
newbies need to know. Best wishes. MLB

cybercat
February 11th 10, 11:23 PM
"MLB" > wrote in message
...
> Bill Graham wrote:
>>
>> "cybercat" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "T" > wrote
>>>>> Well, I have one that responds to a dog whistle......I can go out on
>>>>> the
>>>>> front porch and blow the whistle three times, and in about 5 minutes,
>>>>> he
>>>>> comes running down the block......Sure, I give him a
>>>>> goodie.....Usually a
>>>>> bowl of milk.....But he did this from the get go, without any training
>>>>> on my
>>>>> part. I have had many cats, but this is the only one that comes when I
>>>>> call
>>>>> him like a dog would......
>>>>
>>>
>>> How many of your cats have been hit by cars?
>>>
>> I've never had a cat that died via automobile, but I had one that had a
>> limp and a lump when we got her.....She came with the house. I don't know
>> how she got the limp and lump, but I speculate that it could well have
>> been because of a run-in with a car.
>> In any case I don't want to have another session about inside/outside
>> cat arguments.....It's ground that has been gone over many times before.
>> All of my cats were outside cats when I got them, and have remained so
>> after I got them. If I lived in downtown New York City, this wouldn't be
>> the case, but I don't. You don't know where I live, and so you can't give
>> me any advice on this issue.....'nough said.....
>
>
> Yes, the discussion does get old. However, there are always new posters
> arriving here and others have departed. It is something some of the
> newbies need to know. Best wishes. MLB

I don't fight about it any more. I just have my say and killfile the people
who allow their cats to roam unsupervised in urban and suburban areas. "Down
the block" infers that the OP was talking about such an area, with plenty of
cars and any dog or sadistic cat torturer who happens to be around. If you
love them, keep them in. If you don't, don't have them. And don't try to
argue that allowing domesticated animals to roam exposed to anything that
happens by is fine. It is not fine.

John Ross Mc Master
February 12th 10, 12:33 AM
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:23:12 -0500, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>
>"MLB" > wrote in message
...
>> Bill Graham wrote:
>>>
>>> "cybercat" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "T" > wrote
>>>>>> Well, I have one that responds to a dog whistle......I can go out on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> front porch and blow the whistle three times, and in about 5 minutes,
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> comes running down the block......Sure, I give him a
>>>>>> goodie.....Usually a
>>>>>> bowl of milk.....But he did this from the get go, without any training
>>>>>> on my
>>>>>> part. I have had many cats, but this is the only one that comes when I
>>>>>> call
>>>>>> him like a dog would......
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How many of your cats have been hit by cars?
>>>>
>>> I've never had a cat that died via automobile, but I had one that had a
>>> limp and a lump when we got her.....She came with the house. I don't know
>>> how she got the limp and lump, but I speculate that it could well have
>>> been because of a run-in with a car.
>>> In any case I don't want to have another session about inside/outside
>>> cat arguments.....It's ground that has been gone over many times before.
>>> All of my cats were outside cats when I got them, and have remained so
>>> after I got them. If I lived in downtown New York City, this wouldn't be
>>> the case, but I don't. You don't know where I live, and so you can't give
>>> me any advice on this issue.....'nough said.....
>>
>>
>> Yes, the discussion does get old. However, there are always new posters
>> arriving here and others have departed. It is something some of the
>> newbies need to know. Best wishes. MLB
>
>I don't fight about it any more. I just have my say and killfile the people
>who allow their cats to roam unsupervised in urban and suburban areas. "Down
>the block" infers that the OP was talking about such an area, with plenty of
>cars and any dog or sadistic cat torturer who happens to be around. If you
>love them, keep them in. If you don't, don't have them. And don't try to
>argue that allowing domesticated animals to roam exposed to anything that
>happens by is fine. It is not fine.
>

It is even worse for cats to roam in rural areas. Depending on where
you are, snakes, raccoons, lizards, coyotes, bobcats/lynx, wolves, the
list goes on and on.
Where I am we have everything except lizards.

Cats are better off roaming in Midtown Mantattan than here.

Matthew[_3_]
February 12th 10, 12:39 AM
"John Ross Mc Master" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:23:12 -0500, "cybercat" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"MLB" > wrote in message
...
>>> Bill Graham wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "cybercat" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "T" > wrote
>>>>>>> Well, I have one that responds to a dog whistle......I can go out on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> front porch and blow the whistle three times, and in about 5
>>>>>>> minutes,
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>> comes running down the block......Sure, I give him a
>>>>>>> goodie.....Usually a
>>>>>>> bowl of milk.....But he did this from the get go, without any
>>>>>>> training
>>>>>>> on my
>>>>>>> part. I have had many cats, but this is the only one that comes when
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> call
>>>>>>> him like a dog would......
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How many of your cats have been hit by cars?
>>>>>
>>>> I've never had a cat that died via automobile, but I had one that had a
>>>> limp and a lump when we got her.....She came with the house. I don't
>>>> know
>>>> how she got the limp and lump, but I speculate that it could well have
>>>> been because of a run-in with a car.
>>>> In any case I don't want to have another session about
>>>> inside/outside
>>>> cat arguments.....It's ground that has been gone over many times
>>>> before.
>>>> All of my cats were outside cats when I got them, and have remained so
>>>> after I got them. If I lived in downtown New York City, this wouldn't
>>>> be
>>>> the case, but I don't. You don't know where I live, and so you can't
>>>> give
>>>> me any advice on this issue.....'nough said.....
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, the discussion does get old. However, there are always new posters
>>> arriving here and others have departed. It is something some of the
>>> newbies need to know. Best wishes. MLB
>>
>>I don't fight about it any more. I just have my say and killfile the
>>people
>>who allow their cats to roam unsupervised in urban and suburban areas.
>>"Down
>>the block" infers that the OP was talking about such an area, with plenty
>>of
>>cars and any dog or sadistic cat torturer who happens to be around. If you
>>love them, keep them in. If you don't, don't have them. And don't try to
>>argue that allowing domesticated animals to roam exposed to anything that
>>happens by is fine. It is not fine.
>>
>
> It is even worse for cats to roam in rural areas. Depending on where
> you are, snakes, raccoons, lizards, coyotes, bobcats/lynx, wolves, the
> list goes on and on.
> Where I am we have everything except lizards.
>
> Cats are better off roaming in Midtown Mantattan than here.

Agreed being in Florida you can add to that list gators anacondas
crocodiles multiple snake types feral dogs

Bill Graham
February 12th 10, 06:49 AM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
And don't try to
> argue that allowing domesticated animals to roam exposed to anything that
> happens by is fine. It is not fine.

I never try to argue with the narrow minded........

Bill Graham
February 12th 10, 06:52 AM
"John Ross Mc Master" > wrote in message >

Cats are better off roaming in Midtown Mantattan than here.

Then don't let them roam "there"......But don't tell me where I can let my
cats roam......You don't know anything about, "here".....

Bill Graham
February 12th 10, 07:02 AM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
g.com...
>
> "John Ross Mc Master" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:23:12 -0500, "cybercat" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"MLB" > wrote in message
...
>>>> Bill Graham wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "cybercat" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "T" > wrote
>>>>>>>> Well, I have one that responds to a dog whistle......I can go out
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> front porch and blow the whistle three times, and in about 5
>>>>>>>> minutes,
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> comes running down the block......Sure, I give him a
>>>>>>>> goodie.....Usually a
>>>>>>>> bowl of milk.....But he did this from the get go, without any
>>>>>>>> training
>>>>>>>> on my
>>>>>>>> part. I have had many cats, but this is the only one that comes
>>>>>>>> when I
>>>>>>>> call
>>>>>>>> him like a dog would......
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How many of your cats have been hit by cars?
>>>>>>
>>>>> I've never had a cat that died via automobile, but I had one that had
>>>>> a
>>>>> limp and a lump when we got her.....She came with the house. I don't
>>>>> know
>>>>> how she got the limp and lump, but I speculate that it could well have
>>>>> been because of a run-in with a car.
>>>>> In any case I don't want to have another session about
>>>>> inside/outside
>>>>> cat arguments.....It's ground that has been gone over many times
>>>>> before.
>>>>> All of my cats were outside cats when I got them, and have remained so
>>>>> after I got them. If I lived in downtown New York City, this wouldn't
>>>>> be
>>>>> the case, but I don't. You don't know where I live, and so you can't
>>>>> give
>>>>> me any advice on this issue.....'nough said.....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the discussion does get old. However, there are always new
>>>> posters
>>>> arriving here and others have departed. It is something some of the
>>>> newbies need to know. Best wishes. MLB
>>>
>>>I don't fight about it any more. I just have my say and killfile the
>>>people
>>>who allow their cats to roam unsupervised in urban and suburban areas.
>>>"Down
>>>the block" infers that the OP was talking about such an area, with plenty
>>>of
>>>cars and any dog or sadistic cat torturer who happens to be around. If
>>>you
>>>love them, keep them in. If you don't, don't have them. And don't try to
>>>argue that allowing domesticated animals to roam exposed to anything that
>>>happens by is fine. It is not fine.
>>>
>>
>> It is even worse for cats to roam in rural areas. Depending on where
>> you are, snakes, raccoons, lizards, coyotes, bobcats/lynx, wolves, the
>> list goes on and on.
>> Where I am we have everything except lizards.
>>
>> Cats are better off roaming in Midtown Mantattan than here.
>
> Agreed being in Florida you can add to that list gators anacondas
> crocodiles multiple snake types feral dogs
>
It's amazing how much a bunch of idiots know about me and my cats and where
we live without ever being here, and meeting me or the cats and seeing my
living circumstances......You guys must be liberals, right? Only liberals
would presume to know so much that they can tell other people what to do and
how to live without actually spending any time in their shoes.

You guys should have been born ants in an ant colony.....There, every ant is
exactly like every other ant....What one does, they all do, and if any one
ant deviates from the pattern, he is immediately killed by all the other
ants. This would be perfect for you. It would suit your tiny imaginations
perfectly. But not to worry. Politically, we are rapidly approaching that
circumstance. The way things are going, in another 100 years or so, we are
all going to be living exactly like that......I am only sorry that I won't
be there to usher you into your padded cells........

Petzl
February 12th 10, 07:53 AM
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:02:01 -0800, "Bill Graham" >
wrote:

>It's amazing how much a bunch of idiots know about me and my cats and where
>we live without ever being here, and meeting me or the cats and seeing my
>living circumstances......You guys must be liberals, right? Only liberals
>would presume to know so much that they can tell other people what to do and
>how to live without actually spending any time in their shoes.
>
>You guys should have been born ants in an ant colony.....There, every ant is
>exactly like every other ant....What one does, they all do, and if any one
>ant deviates from the pattern, he is immediately killed by all the other
>ants. This would be perfect for you. It would suit your tiny imaginations
>perfectly. But not to worry. Politically, we are rapidly approaching that
>circumstance. The way things are going, in another 100 years or so, we are
>all going to be living exactly like that......I am only sorry that I won't
>be there to usher you into your padded cells........

It seems a norm in my neighbourhood (outer Sydney Austrailia) for the
cat to come inside or go out when they want. I suppose a cat could get
hit by a golf ball? We do have roads and teens with fast cars?
My and neighbours cats don't seem to co to harm in 30 years never seen
a dead cat on local road (VERY unlucky to kill a cat)
The fastest I've seen my cat come inside is from the top of her
Japanese maple when a cockatoo (native parrot) decided to visit

Mark Earnest
February 12th 10, 08:07 AM
"Petzl" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:02:01 -0800, "Bill Graham" >
> wrote:
>
>>It's amazing how much a bunch of idiots know about me and my cats and
>>where
>>we live without ever being here, and meeting me or the cats and seeing my
>>living circumstances......You guys must be liberals, right? Only liberals
>>would presume to know so much that they can tell other people what to do
>>and
>>how to live without actually spending any time in their shoes.
>>
>>You guys should have been born ants in an ant colony.....There, every ant
>>is
>>exactly like every other ant....What one does, they all do, and if any one
>>ant deviates from the pattern, he is immediately killed by all the other
>>ants. This would be perfect for you. It would suit your tiny imaginations
>>perfectly. But not to worry. Politically, we are rapidly approaching that
>>circumstance. The way things are going, in another 100 years or so, we are
>>all going to be living exactly like that......I am only sorry that I won't
>>be there to usher you into your padded cells........
>
> It seems a norm in my neighbourhood (outer Sydney Austrailia) for the
> cat to come inside or go out when they want. I suppose a cat could get
> hit by a golf ball? We do have roads and teens with fast cars?
> My and neighbours cats don't seem to co to harm in 30 years never seen
> a dead cat on local road (VERY unlucky to kill a cat)
> The fastest I've seen my cat come inside is from the top of her
> Japanese maple when a cockatoo (native parrot) decided to visit

If your cat is wild, nature helps a wild animal.
If your cat is a people cat, better leave him inside.

Bill Graham
February 12th 10, 08:33 AM
"Petzl" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:02:01 -0800, "Bill Graham" >
> wrote:
>
>>It's amazing how much a bunch of idiots know about me and my cats and
>>where
>>we live without ever being here, and meeting me or the cats and seeing my
>>living circumstances......You guys must be liberals, right? Only liberals
>>would presume to know so much that they can tell other people what to do
>>and
>>how to live without actually spending any time in their shoes.
>>
>>You guys should have been born ants in an ant colony.....There, every ant
>>is
>>exactly like every other ant....What one does, they all do, and if any one
>>ant deviates from the pattern, he is immediately killed by all the other
>>ants. This would be perfect for you. It would suit your tiny imaginations
>>perfectly. But not to worry. Politically, we are rapidly approaching that
>>circumstance. The way things are going, in another 100 years or so, we are
>>all going to be living exactly like that......I am only sorry that I won't
>>be there to usher you into your padded cells........
>
> It seems a norm in my neighbourhood (outer Sydney Austrailia) for the
> cat to come inside or go out when they want. I suppose a cat could get
> hit by a golf ball? We do have roads and teens with fast cars?
> My and neighbours cats don't seem to co to harm in 30 years never seen
> a dead cat on local road (VERY unlucky to kill a cat)
> The fastest I've seen my cat come inside is from the top of her
> Japanese maple when a cockatoo (native parrot) decided to visit

I had one that narrowly escaped being caught by an osprey. but otherwise,
they have all lived happily as inside-outside cats for many years now. And
they love it......They love sleeping on my deck in the Summertime. In the
Winter, they hardly go outside at all, so it wouldn't matter if I locked
their cat doors, except I would be afraid that they might burn up should the
house catch on fire while I am gone. Where I live, near the end of a dead
end street, the chances of any of them getting run down is miniscule.

Bill Graham
February 12th 10, 08:41 AM
"Mark Earnest" > wrote in message
netamerica...
> If your cat is wild, nature helps a wild animal.
> If your cat is a people cat, better leave him inside.

And how, exactly does "Nature help a wild animal"? It would seem to me that
nature manages to starve and freeze to death literally millions of wild
animals every year. Most of my cats were, "wild" before they found me. In
direct defiance of "nature", I took them in and gave them a good home with
plenty of warmth, food and water and a vets inspection a couple of times a
year. I don't have to lock them up in order to keep them.....They are smart
enough to know when they are well off.

Petzl
February 12th 10, 10:34 AM
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:33:27 -0800, "Bill Graham" >
wrote:

>
>"Petzl" > wrote in message
...
>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:02:01 -0800, "Bill Graham" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>It's amazing how much a bunch of idiots know about me and my cats and
>>>where
>>>we live without ever being here, and meeting me or the cats and seeing my
>>>living circumstances......You guys must be liberals, right? Only liberals
>>>would presume to know so much that they can tell other people what to do
>>>and
>>>how to live without actually spending any time in their shoes.
>>>
>>>You guys should have been born ants in an ant colony.....There, every ant
>>>is
>>>exactly like every other ant....What one does, they all do, and if any one
>>>ant deviates from the pattern, he is immediately killed by all the other
>>>ants. This would be perfect for you. It would suit your tiny imaginations
>>>perfectly. But not to worry. Politically, we are rapidly approaching that
>>>circumstance. The way things are going, in another 100 years or so, we are
>>>all going to be living exactly like that......I am only sorry that I won't
>>>be there to usher you into your padded cells........
>>
>> It seems a norm in my neighbourhood (outer Sydney Austrailia) for the
>> cat to come inside or go out when they want. I suppose a cat could get
>> hit by a golf ball? We do have roads and teens with fast cars?
>> My and neighbours cats don't seem to co to harm in 30 years never seen
>> a dead cat on local road (VERY unlucky to kill a cat)
>> The fastest I've seen my cat come inside is from the top of her
>> Japanese maple when a cockatoo (native parrot) decided to visit
>
>I had one that narrowly escaped being caught by an osprey. but otherwise,
>they have all lived happily as inside-outside cats for many years now. And
>they love it......They love sleeping on my deck in the Summertime. In the
>Winter, they hardly go outside at all, so it wouldn't matter if I locked
>their cat doors, except I would be afraid that they might burn up should the
>house catch on fire while I am gone. Where I live, near the end of a dead
>end street, the chances of any of them getting run down is miniscule.

A Cockatoo (parrot) while big as a cat are loud noisy and completly
harmless

Stan Brown
February 12th 10, 10:47 AM
Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:02:01 -0800 from Bill Graham >:
>
[another rant]

You really ought to try to purge yourself of black-and-whitethinking.
It seems every time someone makes a statement that contains shades of
gray, you react to it as though it the statement were all white or
all black.



--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

Matthew[_3_]
February 12th 10, 11:14 AM
"Bill Graham" >

< snipped for being posted by a grouch>

What my political views are none of your concern nor have they every been
expressed here. You use your narrow minded backward views to excuse your
way of thinking and lash out.

The only thing I know about you.is that you can be a total idiot; when it
comes to cats and other animals. Some of your advice has been dangerous,
counter productive and possible considered destructive. That is the only
reason you have not ended up in the kill file's I can't let you spread your
bad advice around.

If you can't figure out what I am talking about try Google and look up your
nonsense.

Matthew[_3_]
February 12th 10, 11:14 AM
"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
>
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
> ...
> And don't try to
>> argue that allowing domesticated animals to roam exposed to anything that
>> happens by is fine. It is not fine.
>
> I never try to argue with the narrow minded........

That is so funny coming from you one of the most narrow minded backward
thinking person on this group.

MLB[_2_]
February 12th 10, 08:01 PM
Mark Earnest wrote:
> "Petzl" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:02:01 -0800, "Bill Graham" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It's amazing how much a bunch of idiots know about me and my cats and
>>> where
>>> we live without ever being here, and meeting me or the cats and seeing my
>>> living circumstances......You guys must be liberals, right? Only liberals
>>> would presume to know so much that they can tell other people what to do
>>> and
>>> how to live without actually spending any time in their shoes.
>>>
>>> You guys should have been born ants in an ant colony.....There, every ant
>>> is
>>> exactly like every other ant....What one does, they all do, and if any one
>>> ant deviates from the pattern, he is immediately killed by all the other
>>> ants. This would be perfect for you. It would suit your tiny imaginations
>>> perfectly. But not to worry. Politically, we are rapidly approaching that
>>> circumstance. The way things are going, in another 100 years or so, we are
>>> all going to be living exactly like that......I am only sorry that I won't
>>> be there to usher you into your padded cells........
>> It seems a norm in my neighbourhood (outer Sydney Austrailia) for the
>> cat to come inside or go out when they want. I suppose a cat could get
>> hit by a golf ball? We do have roads and teens with fast cars?
>> My and neighbours cats don't seem to co to harm in 30 years never seen
>> a dead cat on local road (VERY unlucky to kill a cat)
>> The fastest I've seen my cat come inside is from the top of her
>> Japanese maple when a cockatoo (native parrot) decided to visit
>
> If your cat is wild, nature helps a wild animal.
> If your cat is a people cat, better leave him inside.
>
>
IMHO Mother Nature is a cruel mother.

Mark Earnest
February 12th 10, 09:26 PM
"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mark Earnest" > wrote in message
> netamerica...
>> If your cat is wild, nature helps a wild animal.
>> If your cat is a people cat, better leave him inside.
>
> And how, exactly does "Nature help a wild animal"?

Go camping in the woods some day, and see how the wild animal
in you is helped.



It would seem to me that
> nature manages to starve and freeze to death literally millions of wild
> animals every year. Most of my cats were, "wild" before they found me. In
> direct defiance of "nature", I took them in and gave them a good home with
> plenty of warmth, food and water and a vets inspection a couple of times a
> year. I don't have to lock them up in order to keep them.....They are
> smart enough to know when they are well off.


Surely there are people cats outside in the elements and wild animal cats
kept confined indoors. If you are not sure, let him decide for himself.

Mark Earnest
February 12th 10, 09:26 PM
"MLB" > wrote in message
...
> Mark Earnest wrote:
>> "Petzl" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:02:01 -0800, "Bill Graham" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's amazing how much a bunch of idiots know about me and my cats and
>>>> where
>>>> we live without ever being here, and meeting me or the cats and seeing
>>>> my
>>>> living circumstances......You guys must be liberals, right? Only
>>>> liberals
>>>> would presume to know so much that they can tell other people what to
>>>> do and
>>>> how to live without actually spending any time in their shoes.
>>>>
>>>> You guys should have been born ants in an ant colony.....There, every
>>>> ant is
>>>> exactly like every other ant....What one does, they all do, and if any
>>>> one
>>>> ant deviates from the pattern, he is immediately killed by all the
>>>> other
>>>> ants. This would be perfect for you. It would suit your tiny
>>>> imaginations
>>>> perfectly. But not to worry. Politically, we are rapidly approaching
>>>> that
>>>> circumstance. The way things are going, in another 100 years or so, we
>>>> are
>>>> all going to be living exactly like that......I am only sorry that I
>>>> won't
>>>> be there to usher you into your padded cells........
>>> It seems a norm in my neighbourhood (outer Sydney Austrailia) for the
>>> cat to come inside or go out when they want. I suppose a cat could get
>>> hit by a golf ball? We do have roads and teens with fast cars?
>>> My and neighbours cats don't seem to co to harm in 30 years never seen
>>> a dead cat on local road (VERY unlucky to kill a cat)
>>> The fastest I've seen my cat come inside is from the top of her
>>> Japanese maple when a cockatoo (native parrot) decided to visit
>>
>> If your cat is wild, nature helps a wild animal.
>> If your cat is a people cat, better leave him inside.
> IMHO Mother Nature is a cruel mother.

....but a wonderful companion.

T[_4_]
February 13th 10, 12:34 AM
In article erica>,
says...
>
> "T" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > says...
> >>
> >> Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:49:02 -0500 from T >:
> >> > Indeed, some cats are pretty smart. My first cat played fetch. I'd
> >> > throw
> >> > a busy ball and he'd run, pick it up with his mouth and bring it back
> >> > to
> >> > me so I could throw it again.
> >>
> >> So he's got you trained. :-)
> >>
> >> Destructo the Visigoth has similarly trained me to play fetch with
> >> Squeaky Mouse.
> >
> > He had me trained yes, but I'd had him since he was a 12 week old
> > kitten.
> >
> > He's been dead for a few years now. I wish I could have another cat like
> > him.
>
> Every cat has some kind of specialty like that, you just have
> to get to know your cat to find out just what it is.

Well, in Angie's (Current resident felid) case it's being curled up in
my lap. She's a lap fungus.

Bill Graham
February 13th 10, 02:07 AM
"Stan Brown" > wrote in message
t...
> Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:02:01 -0800 from Bill Graham >:
>>
> [another rant]
>
> You really ought to try to purge yourself of black-and-whitethinking.
> It seems every time someone makes a statement that contains shades of
> gray, you react to it as though it the statement were all white or
> all black.

Perhaps that's because I'm thoroughly sick and tired of liberals telling me
how to live. I could care less how other people live, and in any case I
don't know their history or circumstances. All I expect is that they give me
the same courtesy.......Is that asking too much?

Bill Graham
February 13th 10, 02:15 AM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
ng.com...
>
> "Bill Graham" >
>
> < snipped for being posted by a grouch>
>
> What my political views are none of your concern nor have they every been
> expressed here. You use your narrow minded backward views to excuse your
> way of thinking and lash out.
>
> The only thing I know about you.is that you can be a total idiot; when it
> comes to cats and other animals. Some of your advice has been dangerous,
> counter productive and possible considered destructive. That is the only
> reason you have not ended up in the kill file's I can't let you spread
> your bad advice around.
>
> If you can't figure out what I am talking about try Google and look up
> your nonsense.
>
>
Do you really think I should do some research in order to find out why you,
"don't like my advice"? Give me a break! If there is some specific thing you
would like to discuss, well, I am certainly ready and willing to discuss it
with you. I have good reasons why I believe what I believe, and I am not
unwilling to give them to you, or listen to your beliefs. But it is
impossible for me to respond to generalities such as, "some of your advice
has been dangerous" Please be more specific.

Bill Graham
February 13th 10, 02:26 AM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
ng.com...
>
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "cybercat" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> And don't try to
>>> argue that allowing domesticated animals to roam exposed to anything
>>> that happens by is fine. It is not fine.
>>
>> I never try to argue with the narrow minded........
>
> That is so funny coming from you one of the most narrow minded backward
> thinking person on this group.
>
It's very simple. I came home one day to find that my neighbor's house
caught on fire during the working day, and all of his animals perished
because they were trapped inside while he was at work. I was only 10 years
old, but I still remember that day very well. I vowed then never to keep any
animal trapped inside my house, and I never have. I don't have a fenced in
yard, so I don't keep dogs. But I can keep cats, and I happen to have five
of them. They all have access to the outside world through two cat doors.
One leads to my back yard, and the other leads through the garage to the
front. If you think this is unreasonable, then all I can say is that's fine.
You can keep your cats trapped inside your house if you want to do so. I
won't presume to tell you what to do. The only thing I would like to know
is,
WHY DO YOU INSIST ON TELLING MY THAT I SHOULD KEEP MY CATS LOCKED UP
INSIDE MY HOUSE!!??

Matthew[_3_]
February 13th 10, 03:26 AM
"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matthew" > wrote in message
> ng.com...
>>
>> "Bill Graham" >
>>
>> < snipped for being posted by a grouch>
>>
>> What my political views are none of your concern nor have they every been
>> expressed here. You use your narrow minded backward views to excuse your
>> way of thinking and lash out.
>>
>> The only thing I know about you.is that you can be a total idiot; when it
>> comes to cats and other animals. Some of your advice has been dangerous,
>> counter productive and possible considered destructive. That is the only
>> reason you have not ended up in the kill file's I can't let you spread
>> your bad advice around.
>>
>> If you can't figure out what I am talking about try Google and look up
>> your nonsense.
>>
>>
> Do you really think I should do some research in order to find out why
> you, "don't like my advice"? Give me a break! If there is some specific
> thing you would like to discuss, well, I am certainly ready and willing to
> discuss it with you. I have good reasons why I believe what I believe, and
> I am not unwilling to give them to you, or listen to your beliefs. But it
> is impossible for me to respond to generalities such as, "some of your
> advice has been dangerous" Please be more specific.

Too much would be wasted

Bill Graham
February 13th 10, 03:58 AM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
g.com...
>
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>> ng.com...
>>>
>>> "Bill Graham" >
>>>
>>> < snipped for being posted by a grouch>
>>>
>>> What my political views are none of your concern nor have they every
>>> been expressed here. You use your narrow minded backward views to
>>> excuse your way of thinking and lash out.
>>>
>>> The only thing I know about you.is that you can be a total idiot; when
>>> it comes to cats and other animals. Some of your advice has been
>>> dangerous, counter productive and possible considered destructive. That
>>> is the only reason you have not ended up in the kill file's I can't let
>>> you spread your bad advice around.
>>>
>>> If you can't figure out what I am talking about try Google and look up
>>> your nonsense.
>>>
>>>
>> Do you really think I should do some research in order to find out why
>> you, "don't like my advice"? Give me a break! If there is some specific
>> thing you would like to discuss, well, I am certainly ready and willing
>> to discuss it with you. I have good reasons why I believe what I believe,
>> and I am not unwilling to give them to you, or listen to your beliefs.
>> But it is impossible for me to respond to generalities such as, "some of
>> your advice has been dangerous" Please be more specific.
>
> Too much would be wasted
>
Perhaps a little logic.

Lets suppose you were trapped on a deserted island in the Pacific. While you
were waiting to be rescued, you noticed that there was a wild cat on the
island. so, you feed the cat, and make a pet out of him. Now, would you
build a house and trap the cat inside your house? - I think not. The cat
survived without being trapped inside a house for a long time before you got
there, so there is no reason for you to trap him inside one now.

Well, If you wouldn't bother to trap the cat inside a house, then you have
to admit that there is at least ONE circumstance where it is not advisable
to keep a pet locked up inside a house. Now, lets extrapolate this logic to
finding some other circumstance where one might keep outside cats. Like on a
farm where you have acres and acres of land, and you live in the middle
somewhere. Your cats are old and lazy and have no hope of ever traveling to
the nearest road which is over a mile away. (My cousin had such a place, by
the way....(She kept three cats on a grape farm where they had the job of
keeping the birds away from the grapes.) So, now we have two possible places
where it is OK to keep outside cats. Well, Somewhere between these two
places and the middle of New York City we could draw a line and say, "It's
OK to keep outside cats on this side of the line, but not OK to keep them on
that side of the line." If you are with me to this point, then we are very
close to being in agreement. Since you don't know where I live, and I don't
know where you live, it is entirely possible that you should definitely keep
your cats inside only, and I should keep mine outside, or at least under
circumstance where they can go outside whenever they want to do so.
Therefore let us make an agreement. I won't tell you what you should do
with your cats, and you don't tell me what I should do with mine......Is
that OK?

cybercat
February 13th 10, 06:37 AM
"MLB" > wrote in message
...
> Mark Earnest wrote:
>> "Petzl" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:02:01 -0800, "Bill Graham" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's amazing how much a bunch of idiots know about me and my cats and
>>>> where
>>>> we live without ever being here, and meeting me or the cats and seeing
>>>> my
>>>> living circumstances......You guys must be liberals, right? Only
>>>> liberals
>>>> would presume to know so much that they can tell other people what to
>>>> do and
>>>> how to live without actually spending any time in their shoes.
>>>>
>>>> You guys should have been born ants in an ant colony.....There, every
>>>> ant is
>>>> exactly like every other ant....What one does, they all do, and if any
>>>> one
>>>> ant deviates from the pattern, he is immediately killed by all the
>>>> other
>>>> ants. This would be perfect for you. It would suit your tiny
>>>> imaginations
>>>> perfectly. But not to worry. Politically, we are rapidly approaching
>>>> that
>>>> circumstance. The way things are going, in another 100 years or so, we
>>>> are
>>>> all going to be living exactly like that......I am only sorry that I
>>>> won't
>>>> be there to usher you into your padded cells........
>>> It seems a norm in my neighbourhood (outer Sydney Austrailia) for the
>>> cat to come inside or go out when they want. I suppose a cat could get
>>> hit by a golf ball? We do have roads and teens with fast cars?
>>> My and neighbours cats don't seem to co to harm in 30 years never seen
>>> a dead cat on local road (VERY unlucky to kill a cat)
>>> The fastest I've seen my cat come inside is from the top of her
>>> Japanese maple when a cockatoo (native parrot) decided to visit
>>
>> If your cat is wild, nature helps a wild animal.
>> If your cat is a people cat, better leave him inside.
> IMHO Mother Nature is a cruel mother.

And cats are domesticated animals. FFS. P.S. Just took the baby (no 4 months
old) out in the snow for the first time! In our fenced yard, in my arms.
Taking no chances. There's a lovely fine snow falling, coating everything.
She could not wait to get back inside. She likes cantaloupe. :P

cybercat
February 13th 10, 06:40 AM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
g.com...
>
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>> ng.com...
>>>
>>> "Bill Graham" >
>>>
>>> < snipped for being posted by a grouch>
>>>
>>> What my political views are none of your concern nor have they every
>>> been expressed here. You use your narrow minded backward views to
>>> excuse your way of thinking and lash out.
>>>
>>> The only thing I know about you.is that you can be a total idiot; when
>>> it comes to cats and other animals. Some of your advice has been
>>> dangerous, counter productive and possible considered destructive. That
>>> is the only reason you have not ended up in the kill file's I can't let
>>> you spread your bad advice around.
>>>
>>> If you can't figure out what I am talking about try Google and look up
>>> your nonsense.
>>>
>>>
>> Do you really think I should do some research in order to find out why
>> you, "don't like my advice"? Give me a break! If there is some specific
>> thing you would like to discuss, well, I am certainly ready and willing
>> to discuss it with you. I have good reasons why I believe what I believe,
>> and I am not unwilling to give them to you, or listen to your beliefs.
>> But it is impossible for me to respond to generalities such as, "some of
>> your advice has been dangerous" Please be more specific.
>
> Too much would be wasted
:) Indeed.

Matthew[_3_]
February 13th 10, 08:38 AM
"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matthew" > wrote in message
> g.com...
>>
>> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>>> ng.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Bill Graham" >
>>>>
>>>> < snipped for being posted by a grouch>
>>>>
>>>> What my political views are none of your concern nor have they every
>>>> been expressed here. You use your narrow minded backward views to
>>>> excuse your way of thinking and lash out.
>>>>
>>>> The only thing I know about you.is that you can be a total idiot; when
>>>> it comes to cats and other animals. Some of your advice has been
>>>> dangerous, counter productive and possible considered destructive. That
>>>> is the only reason you have not ended up in the kill file's I can't let
>>>> you spread your bad advice around.
>>>>
>>>> If you can't figure out what I am talking about try Google and look up
>>>> your nonsense.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Do you really think I should do some research in order to find out why
>>> you, "don't like my advice"? Give me a break! If there is some specific
>>> thing you would like to discuss, well, I am certainly ready and willing
>>> to discuss it with you. I have good reasons why I believe what I
>>> believe, and I am not unwilling to give them to you, or listen to your
>>> beliefs. But it is impossible for me to respond to generalities such as,
>>> "some of your advice has been dangerous" Please be more specific.
>>
>> Too much would be wasted
>>
> Perhaps a little logic.
>
> Lets suppose you were trapped on a deserted island in the Pacific. While
> you were waiting to be rescued, you noticed that there was a wild cat on
> the island. so, you feed the cat, and make a pet out of him. Now, would
> you build a house and trap the cat inside your house? - I think not. The
> cat survived without being trapped inside a house for a long time before
> you got there, so there is no reason for you to trap him inside one now.
>
> Well, If you wouldn't bother to trap the cat inside a house, then you have
> to admit that there is at least ONE circumstance where it is not advisable
> to keep a pet locked up inside a house. Now, lets extrapolate this logic
> to finding some other circumstance where one might keep outside cats. Like
> on a farm where you have acres and acres of land, and you live in the
> middle somewhere. Your cats are old and lazy and have no hope of ever
> traveling to the nearest road which is over a mile away. (My cousin had
> such a place, by the way....(She kept three cats on a grape farm where
> they had the job of keeping the birds away from the grapes.) So, now we
> have two possible places where it is OK to keep outside cats. Well,
> Somewhere between these two places and the middle of New York City we
> could draw a line and say, "It's OK to keep outside cats on this side of
> the line, but not OK to keep them on that side of the line." If you are
> with me to this point, then we are very close to being in agreement. Since
> you don't know where I live, and I don't know where you live, it is
> entirely possible that you should definitely keep your cats inside only,
> and I should keep mine outside, or at least under circumstance where they
> can go outside whenever they want to do so.
> Therefore let us make an agreement. I won't tell you what you should do
> with your cats, and you don't tell me what I should do with mine......Is
> that OK?

Sorry I don't play the imagination game. I play the fact game but I am not
going to turn this into a inside out side debate. You want that go to
alt.trolls and have at it.


Funny thing is Bill. I have yet to tell you to keep your cats inside. You
are the one screaming that us "liberals" all have an agenda that is
basically out to get you. You are including all of us in there.

As for I just said in basic terms you have given bad and dangerous advice
before. The only time I have truly confronted that you should not do
anything is when you offered the ridiculous and dangerous advice of force
introduction of animals to one another. When they hiss at each you yell at
them etc Remember or are us "liberals" side tracking for another agenda

jmc
February 13th 10, 12:00 PM
Suddenly, without warning, Petzl exclaimed (2/12/2010 5:34 AM):

>
> A Cockatoo (parrot) while big as a cat are loud noisy and completly
> harmless

Lol, try to tell my cat that. She was pretty certain they were spawn of
the devil. Although, it was the magpie larks she was *really* terrified
of. When she'd be out on our porch (enclosed yard, outside under
supervision), they'd chase her inside all the time.

Yes, I have a cat that's afraid of birds - only Aussie ones though - she
shares our deck with the American ones just fine. Go ahead and laugh! I
love her anyway, in all her scardycatness (yup, it's a word NOW.)

jmc

Stan Brown
February 13th 10, 12:24 PM
Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:07:13 -0800 from Bill Graham >:
>
> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
> t...
> > Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:02:01 -0800 from Bill Graham >:
> >>
> > [another rant]
> >
> > You really ought to try to purge yourself of black-and-whitethinking.
> > It seems every time someone makes a statement that contains shades of
> > gray, you react to it as though it the statement were all white or
> > all black.
>
> Perhaps that's because I'm thoroughly sick and tired of liberals telling me
> how to live. I could care less how other people live, and in any case I
> don't know their history or circumstances. All I expect is that they give me
> the same courtesy.......Is that asking too much?

Hon, I think you need mercy not justice.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

Stan Brown
February 13th 10, 12:26 PM
Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:26:31 -0800 from Bill Graham >:
> I came home one day to find that my neighbor's house caught on fire
> during the working day, and all of his animals perished because
> they were trapped inside while he was at work. I was only 10 years
> old, but I still remember that day very well. I vowed then never to
> keep any animal trapped inside my house, and I never have.

That's about on an intellectual par with "I won't wear a seat belt
because if there was an accident I'd be trapped in the car instead of
thrown clear."

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

Bill Graham
February 13th 10, 11:14 PM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
g.com...
>
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>> g.com...
>>>
>>> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>>>> ng.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bill Graham" >
>>>>>
>>>>> < snipped for being posted by a grouch>
>>>>>
>>>>> What my political views are none of your concern nor have they every
>>>>> been expressed here. You use your narrow minded backward views to
>>>>> excuse your way of thinking and lash out.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only thing I know about you.is that you can be a total idiot; when
>>>>> it comes to cats and other animals. Some of your advice has been
>>>>> dangerous, counter productive and possible considered destructive.
>>>>> That is the only reason you have not ended up in the kill file's I
>>>>> can't let you spread your bad advice around.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you can't figure out what I am talking about try Google and look
>>>>> up your nonsense.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Do you really think I should do some research in order to find out why
>>>> you, "don't like my advice"? Give me a break! If there is some specific
>>>> thing you would like to discuss, well, I am certainly ready and willing
>>>> to discuss it with you. I have good reasons why I believe what I
>>>> believe, and I am not unwilling to give them to you, or listen to your
>>>> beliefs. But it is impossible for me to respond to generalities such
>>>> as, "some of your advice has been dangerous" Please be more specific.
>>>
>>> Too much would be wasted
>>>
>> Perhaps a little logic.
>>
>> Lets suppose you were trapped on a deserted island in the Pacific. While
>> you were waiting to be rescued, you noticed that there was a wild cat on
>> the island. so, you feed the cat, and make a pet out of him. Now, would
>> you build a house and trap the cat inside your house? - I think not. The
>> cat survived without being trapped inside a house for a long time before
>> you got there, so there is no reason for you to trap him inside one now.
>>
>> Well, If you wouldn't bother to trap the cat inside a house, then you
>> have to admit that there is at least ONE circumstance where it is not
>> advisable to keep a pet locked up inside a house. Now, lets extrapolate
>> this logic to finding some other circumstance where one might keep
>> outside cats. Like on a farm where you have acres and acres of land, and
>> you live in the middle somewhere. Your cats are old and lazy and have no
>> hope of ever traveling to the nearest road which is over a mile away. (My
>> cousin had such a place, by the way....(She kept three cats on a grape
>> farm where they had the job of keeping the birds away from the grapes.)
>> So, now we have two possible places where it is OK to keep outside cats.
>> Well, Somewhere between these two places and the middle of New York City
>> we could draw a line and say, "It's OK to keep outside cats on this side
>> of the line, but not OK to keep them on that side of the line." If you
>> are with me to this point, then we are very close to being in agreement.
>> Since you don't know where I live, and I don't know where you live, it is
>> entirely possible that you should definitely keep your cats inside only,
>> and I should keep mine outside, or at least under circumstance where they
>> can go outside whenever they want to do so.
>> Therefore let us make an agreement. I won't tell you what you should
>> do with your cats, and you don't tell me what I should do with
>> mine......Is that OK?
>
> Sorry I don't play the imagination game. I play the fact game but I am
> not going to turn this into a inside out side debate. You want that go to
> alt.trolls and have at it.
>
>
> Funny thing is Bill. I have yet to tell you to keep your cats inside.
> You are the one screaming that us "liberals" all have an agenda that is
> basically out to get you. You are including all of us in there.
>
> As for I just said in basic terms you have given bad and dangerous advice
> before. The only time I have truly confronted that you should not do
> anything is when you offered the ridiculous and dangerous advice of force
> introduction of animals to one another. When they hiss at each you yell
> at them etc Remember or are us "liberals" side tracking for another
> agenda
>
It is rather difficult for me to interpret just what you are trying to say,
but I am only trying to tell people what I have done when there was little
choice in the matter. If you have two animals that are having trouble
getting along, then you have to decide whether to force the issue, or give
one of them to someone else. If you decide to force the issue (for whatever
reason) then I have had good luck in the past by yelling at them and
throwing something soft at them when they hiss at one another, so they will
at least know that it displeases me when they aren't getting along. That's
the first step. I have seen cases in the past where people have had cats
that divvied up their house into two sections, and one cat stayed in one
part, (their territory) while the other cat stayed in its part. I would find
this unacceptable, myself, so I let it be known to my cats that they have to
share the territory equally, and get along with one another. Nobody on this
forum is in any way obligated to take any advice from anyone here, including
me. I tell it like it is according to my own experience, and I am sorry if
you disagree with what I have to say, but you have the same platform to say
whatever it is that you want to say alongside me. That's the best I can do.

Bill Graham
February 13th 10, 11:22 PM
"Stan Brown" > wrote in message
t...
> Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:26:31 -0800 from Bill Graham >:
>> I came home one day to find that my neighbor's house caught on fire
>> during the working day, and all of his animals perished because
>> they were trapped inside while he was at work. I was only 10 years
>> old, but I still remember that day very well. I vowed then never to
>> keep any animal trapped inside my house, and I never have.
>
> That's about on an intellectual par with "I won't wear a seat belt
> because if there was an accident I'd be trapped in the car instead of
> thrown clear."
>
Think so? Well, I don't. Statistics show that there are very few cases where
seat belts trap someone inside a car to their own detriment. But there are
many cases where animals are trapped inside burning houses and perish
because they don't have the simple ability to open the door and leave. My
cats do have this ability. This is simple common sense. At 74, I have a lot
of this common sense. It has enabled me to make the right decisions many
times in the past, and it is still working well for me. If you and others on
this forum would like to avail themselves of my common sense, then you are
welcome to do so. Otherwise, you should kill file me and be done with it.

Petzl
February 13th 10, 11:40 PM
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:00:53 -0500, jmc
> wrote:

>Suddenly, without warning, Petzl exclaimed (2/12/2010 5:34 AM):
>
>>
>> A Cockatoo (parrot) while big as a cat are loud noisy and completly
>> harmless
>
>Lol, try to tell my cat that. She was pretty certain they were spawn of
>the devil. Although, it was the magpie larks she was *really* terrified
>of. When she'd be out on our porch (enclosed yard, outside under
>supervision), they'd chase her inside all the time.
>
>Yes, I have a cat that's afraid of birds - only Aussie ones though - she
>shares our deck with the American ones just fine. Go ahead and laugh! I
>love her anyway, in all her scardycatness (yup, it's a word NOW.)
>
>jmc

My cat tends to run from birds also? Butcherbirds (nectar eaters) dive
bomb her. Probably right about Cockatoo's (parrot) being spawn of the
devil, a bird that sounds like a burglar alarm early morning
Petzl

Mark Earnest
February 13th 10, 11:45 PM
"Petzl" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:00:53 -0500, jmc
> > wrote:
>
>>Suddenly, without warning, Petzl exclaimed (2/12/2010 5:34 AM):
>>
>>>
>>> A Cockatoo (parrot) while big as a cat are loud noisy and completly
>>> harmless
>>
>>Lol, try to tell my cat that. She was pretty certain they were spawn of
>>the devil. Although, it was the magpie larks she was *really* terrified
>>of. When she'd be out on our porch (enclosed yard, outside under
>>supervision), they'd chase her inside all the time.
>>
>>Yes, I have a cat that's afraid of birds - only Aussie ones though - she
>>shares our deck with the American ones just fine. Go ahead and laugh! I
>>love her anyway, in all her scardycatness (yup, it's a word NOW.)
>>
>>jmc
>
> My cat tends to run from birds also? Butcherbirds (nectar eaters) dive
> bomb her. Probably right about Cockatoo's (parrot) being spawn of the
> devil, a bird that sounds like a burglar alarm early morning
> Petzl

Go borrow your neigbors's wild tomcat.
He will probably make a quick end to those diving birds.

Matthew[_3_]
February 13th 10, 11:50 PM
"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matthew" > wrote in message
> g.com...
>>
>> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>>> g.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>>>>> ng.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Bill Graham" >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> < snipped for being posted by a grouch>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What my political views are none of your concern nor have they every
>>>>>> been expressed here. You use your narrow minded backward views to
>>>>>> excuse your way of thinking and lash out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only thing I know about you.is that you can be a total idiot;
>>>>>> when it comes to cats and other animals. Some of your advice has
>>>>>> been dangerous, counter productive and possible considered
>>>>>> destructive. That is the only reason you have not ended up in the
>>>>>> kill file's I can't let you spread your bad advice around.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you can't figure out what I am talking about try Google and look
>>>>>> up your nonsense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Do you really think I should do some research in order to find out why
>>>>> you, "don't like my advice"? Give me a break! If there is some
>>>>> specific thing you would like to discuss, well, I am certainly ready
>>>>> and willing to discuss it with you. I have good reasons why I believe
>>>>> what I believe, and I am not unwilling to give them to you, or listen
>>>>> to your beliefs. But it is impossible for me to respond to
>>>>> generalities such as, "some of your advice has been dangerous" Please
>>>>> be more specific.
>>>>
>>>> Too much would be wasted
>>>>
>>> Perhaps a little logic.
>>>
>>> Lets suppose you were trapped on a deserted island in the Pacific. While
>>> you were waiting to be rescued, you noticed that there was a wild cat on
>>> the island. so, you feed the cat, and make a pet out of him. Now, would
>>> you build a house and trap the cat inside your house? - I think not. The
>>> cat survived without being trapped inside a house for a long time before
>>> you got there, so there is no reason for you to trap him inside one now.
>>>
>>> Well, If you wouldn't bother to trap the cat inside a house, then you
>>> have to admit that there is at least ONE circumstance where it is not
>>> advisable to keep a pet locked up inside a house. Now, lets extrapolate
>>> this logic to finding some other circumstance where one might keep
>>> outside cats. Like on a farm where you have acres and acres of land, and
>>> you live in the middle somewhere. Your cats are old and lazy and have no
>>> hope of ever traveling to the nearest road which is over a mile away.
>>> (My cousin had such a place, by the way....(She kept three cats on a
>>> grape farm where they had the job of keeping the birds away from the
>>> grapes.) So, now we have two possible places where it is OK to keep
>>> outside cats. Well, Somewhere between these two places and the middle of
>>> New York City we could draw a line and say, "It's OK to keep outside
>>> cats on this side of the line, but not OK to keep them on that side of
>>> the line." If you are with me to this point, then we are very close to
>>> being in agreement. Since you don't know where I live, and I don't know
>>> where you live, it is entirely possible that you should definitely keep
>>> your cats inside only, and I should keep mine outside, or at least under
>>> circumstance where they can go outside whenever they want to do so.
>>> Therefore let us make an agreement. I won't tell you what you should
>>> do with your cats, and you don't tell me what I should do with
>>> mine......Is that OK?
>>
>> Sorry I don't play the imagination game. I play the fact game but I am
>> not going to turn this into a inside out side debate. You want that go
>> to alt.trolls and have at it.
>>
>>
>> Funny thing is Bill. I have yet to tell you to keep your cats inside. You
>> are the one screaming that us "liberals" all have an agenda that is
>> basically out to get you. You are including all of us in there.
>>
>> As for I just said in basic terms you have given bad and dangerous
>> advice before. The only time I have truly confronted that you should not
>> do anything is when you offered the ridiculous and dangerous advice of
>> force introduction of animals to one another. When they hiss at each you
>> yell at them etc Remember or are us "liberals" side tracking for another
>> agenda
>>
> It is rather difficult for me to interpret just what you are trying to
> say, but I am only trying to tell people what I have done when there was
> little choice in the matter. If you have two animals that are having
> trouble getting along, then you have to decide whether to force the issue,
> or give one of them to someone else. If you decide to force the issue (for
> whatever reason) then I have had good luck in the past by yelling at them
> and throwing something soft at them when they hiss at one another, so they
> will at least know that it displeases me when they aren't getting along.
> That's the first step. I have seen cases in the past where people have had
> cats that divvied up their house into two sections, and one cat stayed in
> one part, (their territory) while the other cat stayed in its part. I
> would find this unacceptable, myself, so I let it be known to my cats that
> they have to share the territory equally, and get along with one another.
> Nobody on this forum is in any way obligated to take any advice from
> anyone here, including me. I tell it like it is according to my own
> experience, and I am sorry if you disagree with what I have to say, but
> you have the same platform to say whatever it is that you want to say
> alongside me. That's the best I can do.

You just don't get it not even worth trying to make it sink in

Petzl
February 14th 10, 12:05 AM
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:45:10 -0600, "Mark Earnest"
> wrote:

>>
>> My cat tends to run from birds also? Butcherbirds (nectar eaters) dive
>> bomb her. Probably right about Cockatoo's (parrot) being spawn of the
>> devil, a bird that sounds like a burglar alarm early morning
>> Petzl
>Go borrow your neigbors's wild tomcat.
>He will probably make a quick end to those diving birds.
>
All cats in my neighborhood are getting too old, mines well over 20 my
neighbors must be near the same, we all moved here as a new
development years ago. My cat tends to stay inside most of the time
only leaving for a twinkle or one banana, two banana if the birds let
her
Petzl

Bill Graham
February 14th 10, 04:10 AM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
g.com...


>> It is rather difficult for me to interpret just what you are trying to
>> say, but I am only trying to tell people what I have done when there was
>> little choice in the matter. If you have two animals that are having
>> trouble getting along, then you have to decide whether to force the
>> issue, or give one of them to someone else. If you decide to force the
>> issue (for whatever reason) then I have had good luck in the past by
>> yelling at them and throwing something soft at them when they hiss at one
>> another, so they will at least know that it displeases me when they
>> aren't getting along. That's the first step. I have seen cases in the
>> past where people have had cats that divvied up their house into two
>> sections, and one cat stayed in one part, (their territory) while the
>> other cat stayed in its part. I would find this unacceptable, myself, so
>> I let it be known to my cats that they have to share the territory
>> equally, and get along with one another. Nobody on this forum is in any
>> way obligated to take any advice from anyone here, including me. I tell
>> it like it is according to my own experience, and I am sorry if you
>> disagree with what I have to say, but you have the same platform to say
>> whatever it is that you want to say alongside me. That's the best I can
>> do.
>
> You just don't get it not even worth trying to make it sink in
>
Let me guess......You were president of your local college's debating
society.....Right?

cybercat
February 14th 10, 07:38 AM
"Petzl" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:45:10 -0600, "Mark Earnest"
> > wrote:
>
>>>
>>> My cat tends to run from birds also? Butcherbirds (nectar eaters) dive
>>> bomb her. Probably right about Cockatoo's (parrot) being spawn of the
>>> devil, a bird that sounds like a burglar alarm early morning
>>> Petzl
>>Go borrow your neigbors's wild tomcat.
>>He will probably make a quick end to those diving birds.
>>
> All cats in my neighborhood are getting too old, mines well over 20 my
> neighbors must be near the same, we all moved here as a new
> development years ago. My cat tends to stay inside most of the time
> only leaving for a twinkle or one banana, two banana if the birds let
> her
> Petzl

Your cats have grown old through sheer luck. Good for you.

Petzl
February 14th 10, 08:24 AM
On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 02:38:33 -0500, "cybercat" >
wrote:
>>>
>> All cats in my neighborhood are getting too old, mines well over 20 my
>> neighbors must be near the same, we all moved here as a new
>> development years ago. My cat tends to stay inside most of the time
>> only leaving for a twinkle or one banana, two banana if the birds let
>> her
>> Petzl
>
>Your cats have grown old through sheer luck. Good for you.
>
In this area it never entered ones head that a cat needs to be locked
up. Times have changed, we have had nutters poisoning dogs on
occasions (Dogs are locked up)?
So no doubt one will have to consider looking at more careful care in
future, no one wants their pet to come to harm. In the City high rise,
cats are confined to apartments
Petzl

Matthew[_3_]
February 14th 10, 01:54 PM
"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matthew" > wrote in message
> g.com...
>
>
>>> It is rather difficult for me to interpret just what you are trying to
>>> say, but I am only trying to tell people what I have done when there was
>>> little choice in the matter. If you have two animals that are having
>>> trouble getting along, then you have to decide whether to force the
>>> issue, or give one of them to someone else. If you decide to force the
>>> issue (for whatever reason) then I have had good luck in the past by
>>> yelling at them and throwing something soft at them when they hiss at
>>> one another, so they will at least know that it displeases me when they
>>> aren't getting along. That's the first step. I have seen cases in the
>>> past where people have had cats that divvied up their house into two
>>> sections, and one cat stayed in one part, (their territory) while the
>>> other cat stayed in its part. I would find this unacceptable, myself, so
>>> I let it be known to my cats that they have to share the territory
>>> equally, and get along with one another. Nobody on this forum is in any
>>> way obligated to take any advice from anyone here, including me. I tell
>>> it like it is according to my own experience, and I am sorry if you
>>> disagree with what I have to say, but you have the same platform to say
>>> whatever it is that you want to say alongside me. That's the best I can
>>> do.
>>
>> You just don't get it not even worth trying to make it sink in
>>
> Let me guess......You were president of your local college's debating
> society.....Right?

Let me guess you are president of those damn liberals are out to get me
right?

Stan Brown
February 14th 10, 03:18 PM
Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:22:59 -0800 from Bill Graham >:
> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
> t...
> > [quoted text muted]
> > That's about on an intellectual par with "I won't wear a seat belt
> > because if there was an accident I'd be trapped in the car instead of
> > thrown clear."
> >
> Think so? Well, I don't. Statistics show that there are very few cases where
> seat belts trap someone inside a car to their own detriment. But there are
> many cases where animals are trapped inside burning houses and perish

Sigh. Are you trolling, are you really unequal to the intellectual
pressure of the conversation?

The parallel is simple: you wear a seat belt because many more
fatalities occur when not wearing one than when wearing one. And (in
most environments) you keep a cat indoors because many more
fatalities occur to outside cats than to inside cats.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

Stan Brown
February 14th 10, 03:19 PM
Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:50:30 -0500 from Matthew
>:
>
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
[drivel]
>
> You just don't get it not even worth trying to make it sink in

I begin to think he's doing it on purpose.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

Stan Brown
February 14th 10, 03:20 PM
Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:05:48 +1100 from Petzl >:
> My cat tends to stay inside most of the time
> only leaving for a twinkle or one banana, two banana if the birds let
> her

"One banana, two banana"? I've never heard that -- could you explain
the expression, please?


--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

cybercat
February 14th 10, 07:51 PM
"Matthew" > wrote in message
ng.com...
>
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>> g.com...
>>
>>
>>>> It is rather difficult for me to interpret just what you are trying to
>>>> say, but I am only trying to tell people what I have done when there
>>>> was little choice in the matter. If you have two animals that are
>>>> having trouble getting along, then you have to decide whether to force
>>>> the issue, or give one of them to someone else. If you decide to force
>>>> the issue (for whatever reason) then I have had good luck in the past
>>>> by yelling at them and throwing something soft at them when they hiss
>>>> at one another, so they will at least know that it displeases me when
>>>> they aren't getting along. That's the first step. I have seen cases in
>>>> the past where people have had cats that divvied up their house into
>>>> two sections, and one cat stayed in one part, (their territory) while
>>>> the other cat stayed in its part. I would find this unacceptable,
>>>> myself, so I let it be known to my cats that they have to share the
>>>> territory equally, and get along with one another. Nobody on this forum
>>>> is in any way obligated to take any advice from anyone here, including
>>>> me. I tell it like it is according to my own experience, and I am sorry
>>>> if you disagree with what I have to say, but you have the same platform
>>>> to say whatever it is that you want to say alongside me. That's the
>>>> best I can do.
>>>
>>> You just don't get it not even worth trying to make it sink in
>>>
>> Let me guess......You were president of your local college's debating
>> society.....Right?
>
> Let me guess you are president of those damn liberals are out to get me
> right?

Matthew, I hope you are getting some cardio debating with this stump-stupid
blowhard. Because that's about the only benefit anyone is going to get out
of it.

Matthew[_3_]
February 14th 10, 08:15 PM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matthew" > wrote in message
> ng.com...
>>
>> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Matthew" > wrote in message
>>> g.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>> It is rather difficult for me to interpret just what you are trying to
>>>>> say, but I am only trying to tell people what I have done when there
>>>>> was little choice in the matter. If you have two animals that are
>>>>> having trouble getting along, then you have to decide whether to force
>>>>> the issue, or give one of them to someone else. If you decide to force
>>>>> the issue (for whatever reason) then I have had good luck in the past
>>>>> by yelling at them and throwing something soft at them when they hiss
>>>>> at one another, so they will at least know that it displeases me when
>>>>> they aren't getting along. That's the first step. I have seen cases in
>>>>> the past where people have had cats that divvied up their house into
>>>>> two sections, and one cat stayed in one part, (their territory) while
>>>>> the other cat stayed in its part. I would find this unacceptable,
>>>>> myself, so I let it be known to my cats that they have to share the
>>>>> territory equally, and get along with one another. Nobody on this
>>>>> forum is in any way obligated to take any advice from anyone here,
>>>>> including me. I tell it like it is according to my own experience, and
>>>>> I am sorry if you disagree with what I have to say, but you have the
>>>>> same platform to say whatever it is that you want to say alongside me.
>>>>> That's the best I can do.
>>>>
>>>> You just don't get it not even worth trying to make it sink in
>>>>
>>> Let me guess......You were president of your local college's debating
>>> society.....Right?
>>
>> Let me guess you are president of those damn liberals are out to get me
>> right?
>
> Matthew, I hope you are getting some cardio debating with this
> stump-stupid blowhard. Because that's about the only benefit anyone is
> going to get out of it.
Just making sure people realize he is dangerous

Bill Graham
February 14th 10, 10:37 PM
"Stan Brown" > wrote in message
t...
> Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:22:59 -0800 from Bill Graham >:
>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>> t...
>> > [quoted text muted]
>> > That's about on an intellectual par with "I won't wear a seat belt
>> > because if there was an accident I'd be trapped in the car instead of
>> > thrown clear."
>> >
>> Think so? Well, I don't. Statistics show that there are very few cases
>> where
>> seat belts trap someone inside a car to their own detriment. But there
>> are
>> many cases where animals are trapped inside burning houses and perish
>
> Sigh. Are you trolling, are you really unequal to the intellectual
> pressure of the conversation?
>
> The parallel is simple: you wear a seat belt because many more
> fatalities occur when not wearing one than when wearing one. And (in
> most environments) you keep a cat indoors because many more
> fatalities occur to outside cats than to inside cats.
>

The parallel is even simpler than that. It's nobody's business but my own
what happens to me in a crash, or what happens to my cats when they are
enjoying life by being outside. So, why doesn't you and the rest of society
just mind your own damn business? You have already made a law that forces me
to wear that cheap ridiculous cloth strap that you call a, "Safety belt",
and it will only be a matter of time before you make a law that forces me to
keep my cats locked up in the house. You and your liberal friends are busy
making laws that directly interfere with my freedoms. Some day, they will
make a law that directly interferes with YOUR enjoyment of life, but by
then, there won't be anything you can hope to do about it. I will be
laughing when they usher you into your padded cell.........

cybercat
February 15th 10, 01:30 AM
"Matthew" > wrote
>> Matthew, I hope you are getting some cardio debating with this
>> stump-stupid blowhard. Because that's about the only benefit anyone is
>> going to get out of it.

> Just making sure people realize he is dangerous

As always, you are a good egg.

Matthew[_3_]
February 15th 10, 03:42 AM
"Bill Graham" >

<snipped>

Hearing those voices yet. There out to get you Bill They are coming to
get you Bill

or better yet those gnomes stealing your underwear again Bill

Rage against those damn underwear stealing gnomes Bill RAGE nom nom nom

Stan Brown
February 15th 10, 03:36 PM
Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:37:43 -0800 from Bill Graham >:
>
> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
> t...
> > Sigh. Are you trolling, are you really unequal to the intellectual
> > pressure of the conversation?
> >
> > The parallel is simple: you wear a seat belt because many more
> > fatalities occur when not wearing one than when wearing one. And (in
> > most environments) you keep a cat indoors because many more
> > fatalities occur to outside cats than to inside cats.
>
> making laws that directly interfere with my freedoms. Some day,
> they will make a law that directly interferes with YOUR enjoyment
> of life, but by then, there won't be anything you can hope to do
> about it. I will be laughing when they usher you into your padded
> cell.........

Well, that answers *that*. You're trolling. Bye!

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

Bill Graham
February 15th 10, 06:48 PM
"Stan Brown" > wrote in message
t...
> Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:37:43 -0800 from Bill Graham >:
>>
>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>> t...
>> > Sigh. Are you trolling, are you really unequal to the intellectual
>> > pressure of the conversation?
>> >
>> > The parallel is simple: you wear a seat belt because many more
>> > fatalities occur when not wearing one than when wearing one. And (in
>> > most environments) you keep a cat indoors because many more
>> > fatalities occur to outside cats than to inside cats.
>>
>> making laws that directly interfere with my freedoms. Some day,
>> they will make a law that directly interferes with YOUR enjoyment
>> of life, but by then, there won't be anything you can hope to do
>> about it. I will be laughing when they usher you into your padded
>> cell.........
>
> Well, that answers *that*. You're trolling. Bye!

What a convenient way to, "win" an argument or discussion......Just say
(when you are backed into a wall) "Your trolling". Did they teach you that
in your collegiate debating club?

Matthew[_3_]
February 15th 10, 07:49 PM
"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
> t...
>> Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:37:43 -0800 from Bill Graham >:
>>>
>>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>>> t...
>>> > Sigh. Are you trolling, are you really unequal to the intellectual
>>> > pressure of the conversation?
>>> >
>>> > The parallel is simple: you wear a seat belt because many more
>>> > fatalities occur when not wearing one than when wearing one. And (in
>>> > most environments) you keep a cat indoors because many more
>>> > fatalities occur to outside cats than to inside cats.
>>>
>>> making laws that directly interfere with my freedoms. Some day,
>>> they will make a law that directly interferes with YOUR enjoyment
>>> of life, but by then, there won't be anything you can hope to do
>>> about it. I will be laughing when they usher you into your padded
>>> cell.........
>>
>> Well, that answers *that*. You're trolling. Bye!
>
> What a convenient way to, "win" an argument or discussion......Just say
> (when you are backed into a wall) "Your trolling". Did they teach you that
> in your collegiate debating club?

RAGE BILL RAGE

Tell those dang liberals gnomes that are stealing your underwear NO MORE
TELL THEM NO MORE

dgk
February 16th 10, 01:45 PM
On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:37:43 -0800, "Bill Graham" >
wrote:

>
>"Stan Brown" > wrote in message
t...
>> Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:22:59 -0800 from Bill Graham >:
>>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>>> t...
>>> > [quoted text muted]
>>> > That's about on an intellectual par with "I won't wear a seat belt
>>> > because if there was an accident I'd be trapped in the car instead of
>>> > thrown clear."
>>> >
>>> Think so? Well, I don't. Statistics show that there are very few cases
>>> where
>>> seat belts trap someone inside a car to their own detriment. But there
>>> are
>>> many cases where animals are trapped inside burning houses and perish
>>
>> Sigh. Are you trolling, are you really unequal to the intellectual
>> pressure of the conversation?
>>
>> The parallel is simple: you wear a seat belt because many more
>> fatalities occur when not wearing one than when wearing one. And (in
>> most environments) you keep a cat indoors because many more
>> fatalities occur to outside cats than to inside cats.
>>
>
>The parallel is even simpler than that. It's nobody's business but my own
>what happens to me in a crash, or what happens to my cats when they are
>enjoying life by being outside. So, why doesn't you and the rest of society
>just mind your own damn business? You have already made a law that forces me
>to wear that cheap ridiculous cloth strap that you call a, "Safety belt",
>and it will only be a matter of time before you make a law that forces me to
>keep my cats locked up in the house. You and your liberal friends are busy
>making laws that directly interfere with my freedoms. Some day, they will
>make a law that directly interferes with YOUR enjoyment of life, but by
>then, there won't be anything you can hope to do about it. I will be
>laughing when they usher you into your padded cell.........

Actually, conservatives are the ones that make the drug laws. Law and
Order you know.

dgk
February 16th 10, 01:47 PM
On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:49:41 -0500, "Matthew"
> wrote:

>
>"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>> t...
>>> Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:37:43 -0800 from Bill Graham >:
>>>>
>>>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>>>> t...
>>>> > Sigh. Are you trolling, are you really unequal to the intellectual
>>>> > pressure of the conversation?
>>>> >
>>>> > The parallel is simple: you wear a seat belt because many more
>>>> > fatalities occur when not wearing one than when wearing one. And (in
>>>> > most environments) you keep a cat indoors because many more
>>>> > fatalities occur to outside cats than to inside cats.
>>>>
>>>> making laws that directly interfere with my freedoms. Some day,
>>>> they will make a law that directly interferes with YOUR enjoyment
>>>> of life, but by then, there won't be anything you can hope to do
>>>> about it. I will be laughing when they usher you into your padded
>>>> cell.........
>>>
>>> Well, that answers *that*. You're trolling. Bye!
>>
>> What a convenient way to, "win" an argument or discussion......Just say
>> (when you are backed into a wall) "Your trolling". Did they teach you that
>> in your collegiate debating club?
>
>RAGE BILL RAGE
>
>Tell those dang liberals gnomes that are stealing your underwear NO MORE
>TELL THEM NO MORE
>

I remember that in elementary school we were told that Communists
would make us use each other's underwear.

cybercat
February 16th 10, 05:04 PM
"dgk" > wrote
> I remember that in elementary school we were told that Communists
> would make us use each other's underwear.

No! Really? Where was this? lol

Bill Graham
February 16th 10, 10:05 PM
"dgk" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:37:43 -0800, "Bill Graham" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Stan Brown" > wrote in message
t...
>>> Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:22:59 -0800 from Bill Graham >:
>>>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>>>> t...
>>>> > [quoted text muted]
>>>> > That's about on an intellectual par with "I won't wear a seat belt
>>>> > because if there was an accident I'd be trapped in the car instead of
>>>> > thrown clear."
>>>> >
>>>> Think so? Well, I don't. Statistics show that there are very few cases
>>>> where
>>>> seat belts trap someone inside a car to their own detriment. But there
>>>> are
>>>> many cases where animals are trapped inside burning houses and perish
>>>
>>> Sigh. Are you trolling, are you really unequal to the intellectual
>>> pressure of the conversation?
>>>
>>> The parallel is simple: you wear a seat belt because many more
>>> fatalities occur when not wearing one than when wearing one. And (in
>>> most environments) you keep a cat indoors because many more
>>> fatalities occur to outside cats than to inside cats.
>>>
>>
>>The parallel is even simpler than that. It's nobody's business but my own
>>what happens to me in a crash, or what happens to my cats when they are
>>enjoying life by being outside. So, why doesn't you and the rest of
>>society
>>just mind your own damn business? You have already made a law that forces
>>me
>>to wear that cheap ridiculous cloth strap that you call a, "Safety belt",
>>and it will only be a matter of time before you make a law that forces me
>>to
>>keep my cats locked up in the house. You and your liberal friends are busy
>>making laws that directly interfere with my freedoms. Some day, they will
>>make a law that directly interferes with YOUR enjoyment of life, but by
>>then, there won't be anything you can hope to do about it. I will be
>>laughing when they usher you into your padded cell.........
>
> Actually, conservatives are the ones that make the drug laws. Law and
> Order you know.

I am a libertarian. I don't care which party makes these stupid "padded
cell" laws.....I am against them. They justify them on the basis that people
won't get hurt and use the social services to get well again, but I didn't
give them permission to give my money away to begin with, so that argument
don't hold any water with me. First, they hold me up every April 15th and
steal my money. Then they give it away to the poor. Then they make laws that
restrict my freedoms and say, "The poor are using up our tax dollars too
fast, so we need these laws to slow it down". The purpose of the law is to
protect the individual from others, or to make us all equally liable for our
excesses. But when they use the law to interfere with our freedoms when the
exercise of those freedoms doesn't interfere with the freedoms of anyone
else, then that is, or at least ought to be, unconstitutional.....The
purpose of the constitution is to protect the minority from the tyranny of
the majority.
This is one of the reasons why I keep outside cats. Sure, they could get
hurt or even killed by the outside world, and they would be safer trapped
inside my house. But I don't believe the purpose of life is to not get hurt
or killed. We are all mortal, and will all, eventually, die. I believe the
purpose of life is to enjoy it as much as we can while we are here. That is
how I live, and I want to give my cats the same opportunity to enjoy life as
I have. I would be unhappy were I trapped inside my house, and so are they.
They all came to me from the outside world, so I don't believe I have the
right to keep them prisoners in my house or anywhere else. If they get
themselves killed, well, that's the chance we all take by living. If staying
alive as long as possible is your shtick, then build yourself a padded cell
and go and live in it. I choose to enjoy life as much as possible, and I
will give my cats that same opportunity. I eat a steak once in a while even
though I know it increases my cholesterol and will probably shorten my life.
My B-K likes to hunt birds and mice and other small animals.....One of these
days, he will be hunting and a big dog or raccoon or coyote will get him. I
will be very sad, but I still wouldn't trap him inside my house. If I hadn't
come along, he would still be foraging for food in that Burger King parking
lot, and probably would be dead by now, since that was 5 years ago. So, he
has already outlived the time God gave him. Any time he has left is courtesy
of old Bill Graham. (me...:^)

Bill Graham
February 16th 10, 10:10 PM
"dgk" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:49:41 -0500, "Matthew"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>>> t...
>>>> Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:37:43 -0800 from Bill Graham >:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>>>>> t...
>>>>> > Sigh. Are you trolling, are you really unequal to the intellectual
>>>>> > pressure of the conversation?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The parallel is simple: you wear a seat belt because many more
>>>>> > fatalities occur when not wearing one than when wearing one. And
>>>>> > (in
>>>>> > most environments) you keep a cat indoors because many more
>>>>> > fatalities occur to outside cats than to inside cats.
>>>>>
>>>>> making laws that directly interfere with my freedoms. Some day,
>>>>> they will make a law that directly interferes with YOUR enjoyment
>>>>> of life, but by then, there won't be anything you can hope to do
>>>>> about it. I will be laughing when they usher you into your padded
>>>>> cell.........
>>>>
>>>> Well, that answers *that*. You're trolling. Bye!
>>>
>>> What a convenient way to, "win" an argument or discussion......Just say
>>> (when you are backed into a wall) "Your trolling". Did they teach you
>>> that
>>> in your collegiate debating club?
>>
>>RAGE BILL RAGE
>>
>>Tell those dang liberals gnomes that are stealing your underwear NO MORE
>>TELL THEM NO MORE
>>
>
> I remember that in elementary school we were told that Communists
> would make us use each other's underwear.

And they well might do just that.....If you haven't lived under Communism,
you don't really know, do you? I have never lived under Communism myself,
but I was married to a Polish lady who did live under it.....Worse than
that, she lived under the rule of Josef Stalin. Believe me, both you and I
are very lucky that we didn't have to endure that.

dgk
February 17th 10, 01:44 PM
On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:10:00 -0800, "Bill Graham" >
wrote:

>
>"dgk" > wrote in message
...
>> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:49:41 -0500, "Matthew"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>>>> t...
>>>>> Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:37:43 -0800 from Bill Graham >:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>>>>>> t...
>>>>>> > Sigh. Are you trolling, are you really unequal to the intellectual
>>>>>> > pressure of the conversation?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The parallel is simple: you wear a seat belt because many more
>>>>>> > fatalities occur when not wearing one than when wearing one. And
>>>>>> > (in
>>>>>> > most environments) you keep a cat indoors because many more
>>>>>> > fatalities occur to outside cats than to inside cats.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> making laws that directly interfere with my freedoms. Some day,
>>>>>> they will make a law that directly interferes with YOUR enjoyment
>>>>>> of life, but by then, there won't be anything you can hope to do
>>>>>> about it. I will be laughing when they usher you into your padded
>>>>>> cell.........
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, that answers *that*. You're trolling. Bye!
>>>>
>>>> What a convenient way to, "win" an argument or discussion......Just say
>>>> (when you are backed into a wall) "Your trolling". Did they teach you
>>>> that
>>>> in your collegiate debating club?
>>>
>>>RAGE BILL RAGE
>>>
>>>Tell those dang liberals gnomes that are stealing your underwear NO MORE
>>>TELL THEM NO MORE
>>>
>>
>> I remember that in elementary school we were told that Communists
>> would make us use each other's underwear.
>
>And they well might do just that.....If you haven't lived under Communism,
>you don't really know, do you? I have never lived under Communism myself,
>but I was married to a Polish lady who did live under it.....Worse than
>that, she lived under the rule of Josef Stalin. Believe me, both you and I
>are very lucky that we didn't have to endure that.

I like the idea of Communism, everyone working for the good of the
whole, but since people are basically selfish you have to force them
to work for the good of the whole. That doesn't work out so well in
practice.

My parents were pretty much commies until the truth of Stalin came
out. One of my co-workers is from Poland and says there was a lot of
good under Communism but it just gets too corrupt. I also worked with
a Czech guy who had nothing good to say about it.

Of course, Capitalism has many problems as well. I think that masses
of humans are just ungovernable.

dgk
February 17th 10, 02:01 PM
On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:05:19 -0800, "Bill Graham" >
wrote:

>
>"dgk" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:37:43 -0800, "Bill Graham" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Stan Brown" > wrote in message
t...
>>>> Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:22:59 -0800 from Bill Graham >:
>>>>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>>>>> t...
>>>>> > [quoted text muted]
>>>>> > That's about on an intellectual par with "I won't wear a seat belt
>>>>> > because if there was an accident I'd be trapped in the car instead of
>>>>> > thrown clear."
>>>>> >
>>>>> Think so? Well, I don't. Statistics show that there are very few cases
>>>>> where
>>>>> seat belts trap someone inside a car to their own detriment. But there
>>>>> are
>>>>> many cases where animals are trapped inside burning houses and perish
>>>>
>>>> Sigh. Are you trolling, are you really unequal to the intellectual
>>>> pressure of the conversation?
>>>>
>>>> The parallel is simple: you wear a seat belt because many more
>>>> fatalities occur when not wearing one than when wearing one. And (in
>>>> most environments) you keep a cat indoors because many more
>>>> fatalities occur to outside cats than to inside cats.
>>>>
>>>
>>>The parallel is even simpler than that. It's nobody's business but my own
>>>what happens to me in a crash, or what happens to my cats when they are
>>>enjoying life by being outside. So, why doesn't you and the rest of
>>>society
>>>just mind your own damn business? You have already made a law that forces
>>>me
>>>to wear that cheap ridiculous cloth strap that you call a, "Safety belt",
>>>and it will only be a matter of time before you make a law that forces me
>>>to
>>>keep my cats locked up in the house. You and your liberal friends are busy
>>>making laws that directly interfere with my freedoms. Some day, they will
>>>make a law that directly interferes with YOUR enjoyment of life, but by
>>>then, there won't be anything you can hope to do about it. I will be
>>>laughing when they usher you into your padded cell.........
>>
>> Actually, conservatives are the ones that make the drug laws. Law and
>> Order you know.
>
>I am a libertarian. I don't care which party makes these stupid "padded
>cell" laws.....I am against them. They justify them on the basis that people
>won't get hurt and use the social services to get well again, but I didn't
>give them permission to give my money away to begin with, so that argument
>don't hold any water with me. First, they hold me up every April 15th and
>steal my money. Then they give it away to the poor. Then they make laws that
>restrict my freedoms and say, "The poor are using up our tax dollars too
>fast, so we need these laws to slow it down". The purpose of the law is to
>protect the individual from others, or to make us all equally liable for our
>excesses. But when they use the law to interfere with our freedoms when the
>exercise of those freedoms doesn't interfere with the freedoms of anyone
>else, then that is, or at least ought to be, unconstitutional.....The
>purpose of the constitution is to protect the minority from the tyranny of
>the majority.
> This is one of the reasons why I keep outside cats. Sure, they could get
>hurt or even killed by the outside world, and they would be safer trapped
>inside my house. But I don't believe the purpose of life is to not get hurt
>or killed. We are all mortal, and will all, eventually, die. I believe the
>purpose of life is to enjoy it as much as we can while we are here. That is
>how I live, and I want to give my cats the same opportunity to enjoy life as
>I have. I would be unhappy were I trapped inside my house, and so are they.
>They all came to me from the outside world, so I don't believe I have the
>right to keep them prisoners in my house or anywhere else. If they get
>themselves killed, well, that's the chance we all take by living. If staying
>alive as long as possible is your shtick, then build yourself a padded cell
>and go and live in it. I choose to enjoy life as much as possible, and I
>will give my cats that same opportunity. I eat a steak once in a while even
>though I know it increases my cholesterol and will probably shorten my life.
>My B-K likes to hunt birds and mice and other small animals.....One of these
>days, he will be hunting and a big dog or raccoon or coyote will get him. I
>will be very sad, but I still wouldn't trap him inside my house. If I hadn't
>come along, he would still be foraging for food in that Burger King parking
>lot, and probably would be dead by now, since that was 5 years ago. So, he
>has already outlived the time God gave him. Any time he has left is courtesy
>of old Bill Graham. (me...:^)


I have a relative who has mental problems. He's pretty smart but is on
anti-psychotic meds, and has been since he was a teenager and tried to
gouge his eyes out. He lives on Social Security checks.. He always
wanted to work but it must be pretty tough when you think everyone is
always staring at you and you can't figure out how to put a size 16
shirt in the pile of size 16 shirts.

What should we do with him if we don't help him out? Take him out and
shoot him? Let him die on the street? Should I have to pay for him?
Since his mother died recently I get to deal with a lot of the forms
that she dealt with, and believe me that she had her own issues
mentally-wise. Frankly I can't figure out half the forms that he is
supposed to deal with.

I want to slash our defense (I mean, offense) budget. Our troops go
abroad for one reason and one reason only, and that is to protect the
investments of rich people. I think if we stop trying to run the world
for the benefit of corporations we might find that people around the
world don't hate us as much. Our founding fathers had a very healty
fear of corporate power and limited what corporations can do; over
time those limits have eroded. I think it's time to reign them back in
and only the government has the power to do that. So, consider that
when you rant about the government. Otherwise get get facism, which is
what I think the Tea Party is leading to. Brown shirts in training.

As for outside cats, I'm torn on the issue. I fenced in my little yard
so that my cats can go out, and they often do. But one of the
neighborhood cats (Shay) just ended up getting taken to the vet by one
of my neighbors because his head was ripped open by something. By the
looks of the damage I have to think it was a racoon. We don't exactly
have much wildlife in NYC but we do have them, and possums. Could have
been another cat I guess but I don't know if one cat can do that kind
of damage to another (big) cat.

My neighborhood is pretty safe for outdoor cats I would think; outside
of racoons I guess. But I'm not letting my cats run free. And, my
newest boy Scooter, still has the right to be let out since I took him
off the street. Maybe when the weather gets nicer he'll take me up on
it, but lately he goes to the door, I open it to let him out, and he
comes righ back inside. He's no dummy.

Bill Graham
February 17th 10, 09:13 PM
"dgk" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:05:19 -0800, "Bill Graham" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"dgk" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:37:43 -0800, "Bill Graham" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Stan Brown" > wrote in message
t...
>>>>> Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:22:59 -0800 from Bill Graham >:
>>>>>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>>>>>> t...
>>>>>> > [quoted text muted]
>>>>>> > That's about on an intellectual par with "I won't wear a seat belt
>>>>>> > because if there was an accident I'd be trapped in the car instead
>>>>>> > of
>>>>>> > thrown clear."
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> Think so? Well, I don't. Statistics show that there are very few
>>>>>> cases
>>>>>> where
>>>>>> seat belts trap someone inside a car to their own detriment. But
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> many cases where animals are trapped inside burning houses and perish
>>>>>
>>>>> Sigh. Are you trolling, are you really unequal to the intellectual
>>>>> pressure of the conversation?
>>>>>
>>>>> The parallel is simple: you wear a seat belt because many more
>>>>> fatalities occur when not wearing one than when wearing one. And (in
>>>>> most environments) you keep a cat indoors because many more
>>>>> fatalities occur to outside cats than to inside cats.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The parallel is even simpler than that. It's nobody's business but my
>>>>own
>>>>what happens to me in a crash, or what happens to my cats when they are
>>>>enjoying life by being outside. So, why doesn't you and the rest of
>>>>society
>>>>just mind your own damn business? You have already made a law that
>>>>forces
>>>>me
>>>>to wear that cheap ridiculous cloth strap that you call a, "Safety
>>>>belt",
>>>>and it will only be a matter of time before you make a law that forces
>>>>me
>>>>to
>>>>keep my cats locked up in the house. You and your liberal friends are
>>>>busy
>>>>making laws that directly interfere with my freedoms. Some day, they
>>>>will
>>>>make a law that directly interferes with YOUR enjoyment of life, but by
>>>>then, there won't be anything you can hope to do about it. I will be
>>>>laughing when they usher you into your padded cell.........
>>>
>>> Actually, conservatives are the ones that make the drug laws. Law and
>>> Order you know.
>>
>>I am a libertarian. I don't care which party makes these stupid "padded
>>cell" laws.....I am against them. They justify them on the basis that
>>people
>>won't get hurt and use the social services to get well again, but I didn't
>>give them permission to give my money away to begin with, so that argument
>>don't hold any water with me. First, they hold me up every April 15th and
>>steal my money. Then they give it away to the poor. Then they make laws
>>that
>>restrict my freedoms and say, "The poor are using up our tax dollars too
>>fast, so we need these laws to slow it down". The purpose of the law is to
>>protect the individual from others, or to make us all equally liable for
>>our
>>excesses. But when they use the law to interfere with our freedoms when
>>the
>>exercise of those freedoms doesn't interfere with the freedoms of anyone
>>else, then that is, or at least ought to be, unconstitutional.....The
>>purpose of the constitution is to protect the minority from the tyranny of
>>the majority.
>> This is one of the reasons why I keep outside cats. Sure, they could
>> get
>>hurt or even killed by the outside world, and they would be safer trapped
>>inside my house. But I don't believe the purpose of life is to not get
>>hurt
>>or killed. We are all mortal, and will all, eventually, die. I believe the
>>purpose of life is to enjoy it as much as we can while we are here. That
>>is
>>how I live, and I want to give my cats the same opportunity to enjoy life
>>as
>>I have. I would be unhappy were I trapped inside my house, and so are
>>they.
>>They all came to me from the outside world, so I don't believe I have the
>>right to keep them prisoners in my house or anywhere else. If they get
>>themselves killed, well, that's the chance we all take by living. If
>>staying
>>alive as long as possible is your shtick, then build yourself a padded
>>cell
>>and go and live in it. I choose to enjoy life as much as possible, and I
>>will give my cats that same opportunity. I eat a steak once in a while
>>even
>>though I know it increases my cholesterol and will probably shorten my
>>life.
>>My B-K likes to hunt birds and mice and other small animals.....One of
>>these
>>days, he will be hunting and a big dog or raccoon or coyote will get him.
>>I
>>will be very sad, but I still wouldn't trap him inside my house. If I
>>hadn't
>>come along, he would still be foraging for food in that Burger King
>>parking
>>lot, and probably would be dead by now, since that was 5 years ago. So, he
>>has already outlived the time God gave him. Any time he has left is
>>courtesy
>>of old Bill Graham. (me...:^)
>
>
> I have a relative who has mental problems. He's pretty smart but is on
> anti-psychotic meds, and has been since he was a teenager and tried to
> gouge his eyes out. He lives on Social Security checks.. He always
> wanted to work but it must be pretty tough when you think everyone is
> always staring at you and you can't figure out how to put a size 16
> shirt in the pile of size 16 shirts.
>
> What should we do with him if we don't help him out? Take him out and
> shoot him? Let him die on the street? Should I have to pay for him?
> Since his mother died recently I get to deal with a lot of the forms
> that she dealt with, and believe me that she had her own issues
> mentally-wise. Frankly I can't figure out half the forms that he is
> supposed to deal with.
>
> I want to slash our defense (I mean, offense) budget. Our troops go
> abroad for one reason and one reason only, and that is to protect the
> investments of rich people. I think if we stop trying to run the world
> for the benefit of corporations we might find that people around the
> world don't hate us as much. Our founding fathers had a very healty
> fear of corporate power and limited what corporations can do; over
> time those limits have eroded. I think it's time to reign them back in
> and only the government has the power to do that. So, consider that
> when you rant about the government. Otherwise get get facism, which is
> what I think the Tea Party is leading to. Brown shirts in training.
>
> As for outside cats, I'm torn on the issue. I fenced in my little yard
> so that my cats can go out, and they often do. But one of the
> neighborhood cats (Shay) just ended up getting taken to the vet by one
> of my neighbors because his head was ripped open by something. By the
> looks of the damage I have to think it was a racoon. We don't exactly
> have much wildlife in NYC but we do have them, and possums. Could have
> been another cat I guess but I don't know if one cat can do that kind
> of damage to another (big) cat.
>
> My neighborhood is pretty safe for outdoor cats I would think; outside
> of racoons I guess. But I'm not letting my cats run free. And, my
> newest boy Scooter, still has the right to be let out since I took him
> off the street. Maybe when the weather gets nicer he'll take me up on
> it, but lately he goes to the door, I open it to let him out, and he
> comes righ back inside. He's no dummy.
>
>

Basically, that's the way it is with my cats....They are all outside cats,
but other than sitting on my porch in the Summertime, they all pretty much
stay inside all the time, so it really doesn't make much difference. A
couple of them won't even go outside to relieve themselves....They use the
cat box my wife has in her bathroom. And, on of these is our feral cat that
used to only live outside.

Bill Graham
February 21st 10, 03:50 AM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
> Where I live, near the end of a dead
>> end street, the chances of any of them getting run down is miniscule.
>
> I live in a similar situation. All the homes are set back far from the
> road. I don't remember any cats here (neighbors or mine) getting run over,
> but several dogs were hit and killed on the road. Cats will usually just
> "vanish" into thin air one day. So I can't leave mine outside. My
> younger one has been trying to sneak out the front door when I go out to
> fill the bird feeders. I fear one of these days she'll make it. :(
> --
Well, All of the cats I have right now came to me from the outside world as
adults, and were used to being outside cats. If I had raised them from
kittenhood, then I would have considered keeping them trapped indoors, and
they wouldn't have known the difference, and probably would have been very
happy. But it is not just the cats happiness I have to consider....Keeping
inside cats requires a lot more trouble than keeping outside cats. You can't
just leave for a week and expect your cats to do OK while you are gone as I
can do with my five cats right now. So, it requires a commitment, kind of
like keeping dogs does. One might say that I shouldn't have any cats at all
if I let them go outside, but most of my cats would have eventually been
euthanized had I not taken them in, and they have been very happy living
with my wife and myself, so I am satisfied with my decision to take them in
and let them come and go through the cat doors. We don't have many predators
in my neighborhood, and they have all done very well living here. They all
seem to get along with the raccoons well, probably because they don't
compete for the same food, and I haven't seen any wild coyotes here and I
have been here for 13 years now.

Bill Graham
February 21st 10, 03:59 AM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
> They all have access to the outside world through two cat doors.
>
> Holy Cow! If I had cat doors I would have strays in here, possums coming
> in, raccoons in the house..... and who knows what else. =O
>
> But then I'm out in the boonies. I'm now feeding 2 more tomcats someone
> dumped off here on the road. They seem to be living under my outbuilding.
> --
Yes.....I have had that trouble with my cat doors too. There was a female
raccoon who couldn't fit through the cat door herself, but she would put her
kittens through it so they could eat the cat food. This did not seem to
bother my cats, but they will hiss at the adult raccoons that come up on the
back porch to eat the dog food we keep out there. We feed the raccoons cheap
dog food. They don't really like it, but when they are very hungry, they
will eat it rather than starve to death. We could end up feeding hundreds of
them if we put out better quality food, but we stick with the 37-1/2 pound
bags of, "Maintain" for $12 a bag, and that works just fine....They eat it
begrudgingly when they are really hungry......

Wayne Mitchell
February 21st 10, 02:36 PM
"Bill Graham" > wrote:

>If I had raised them from
>kittenhood, then I would have considered keeping them trapped
>indoors, and they wouldn't have known the difference, and
>probably would have been very
>happy.

I can tell you from personal experience that it is not true that all
cats who have never experienced the outdoors don't know the difference
and don't care. We had one whom we kept in for the first year and a
half of her life, and she never accepted it. We finally caved and let
her out, and she lasted another 11 years before going MIA.

It is equally untrue that a cat which has lived all its life outdoors
will necessarily have a problem adjusting to being indoor-only. Most of
them adjust very easily, and many have no interest in the outdoors once
they have moved in.


>Keeping inside cats requires a lot more trouble than keeping outside
>cats. You can't just leave for a week and expect your cats to do OK
>while you are gone as I can do with my five cats right now. So, it
>requires a commitment, kind of like keeping dogs does.

Yes, it does require commitment -- more than we ever thought of when we
were growing up with a bunch of barn cats around; and more, I think,
than you have quite accepted. We put off getting any cats until we were
no longer likely to be gone for long periods. I don't go so far as to
say that one shouldn't keep cats if one is not going to keep them
indoors, but I would consider five days unattended as substandard care
even for those with ad lib access to the outside. When we had
indoor-outdoor cats, we always felt we needed to provide
house-/cat-sitters if we were gone more than a day. They need a good
assessing eye run over them at least once a day.


>We don't have many predators in my neighborhood, and they have all
>done very well living here. They all seem to get along with the
>raccoons well, probably because they don't compete for the same
>food, and I haven't seen any wild coyotes here and I have been here
>for 13 years now.

Raccoons are no problem at all. I think foxes and coyotes get blamed
more often than they are actually guilty, but both will kill cats, and
if you live within their range you can be sure they are around even if
you don't see them. Here, the worst cat killer, in my estimation, is
the fisher -- sightings of which are extremely rare.
--

Wayne M.

Bill Graham
February 21st 10, 07:11 PM
"Wayne Mitchell" > wrote in message
...
> "Bill Graham" > wrote:
>
>>If I had raised them from
>>kittenhood, then I would have considered keeping them trapped
>>indoors, and they wouldn't have known the difference, and
>>probably would have been very
>>happy.
>
> I can tell you from personal experience that it is not true that all
> cats who have never experienced the outdoors don't know the difference
> and don't care. We had one whom we kept in for the first year and a
> half of her life, and she never accepted it. We finally caved and let
> her out, and she lasted another 11 years before going MIA.
>
> It is equally untrue that a cat which has lived all its life outdoors
> will necessarily have a problem adjusting to being indoor-only. Most of
> them adjust very easily, and many have no interest in the outdoors once
> they have moved in.
>
>
>>Keeping inside cats requires a lot more trouble than keeping outside
>>cats. You can't just leave for a week and expect your cats to do OK
>>while you are gone as I can do with my five cats right now. So, it
>>requires a commitment, kind of like keeping dogs does.
>
> Yes, it does require commitment -- more than we ever thought of when we
> were growing up with a bunch of barn cats around; and more, I think,
> than you have quite accepted. We put off getting any cats until we were
> no longer likely to be gone for long periods. I don't go so far as to
> say that one shouldn't keep cats if one is not going to keep them
> indoors, but I would consider five days unattended as substandard care
> even for those with ad lib access to the outside. When we had
> indoor-outdoor cats, we always felt we needed to provide
> house-/cat-sitters if we were gone more than a day. They need a good
> assessing eye run over them at least once a day.
>
>
>>We don't have many predators in my neighborhood, and they have all
>>done very well living here. They all seem to get along with the
>>raccoons well, probably because they don't compete for the same
>>food, and I haven't seen any wild coyotes here and I have been here
>>for 13 years now.
>
> Raccoons are no problem at all. I think foxes and coyotes get blamed
> more often than they are actually guilty, but both will kill cats, and
> if you live within their range you can be sure they are around even if
> you don't see them. Here, the worst cat killer, in my estimation, is
> the fisher -- sightings of which are extremely rare.
> --
>
> Wayne M.

I haven't seen any fishers or others of that family around here either. I
worry most about teenage boys....We have a Christmas tree farm behind the
house, and occasionally I hear gunshots coming from that direction. If my
cats routinely wandered around back there I would be more worried than I am.
They seldom leave our property any more......

Mark Earnest
February 22nd 10, 04:59 AM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
> Where I live, near the end of a dead
>> end street, the chances of any of them getting run down is miniscule.
>
> I live in a similar situation. All the homes are set back far from the
> road. I don't remember any cats here (neighbors or mine) getting run over,
> but several dogs were hit and killed on the road. Cats will usually just
> "vanish" into thin air one day. So I can't leave mine outside. My
> younger one has been trying to sneak out the front door when I go out to
> fill the bird feeders. I fear one of these days she'll make it. :(

Well, if she does make it, she will be getting what she wanted most out of
life, so it would not be a total loss. For her anyway.

Bill Graham
February 23rd 10, 03:20 AM
"Mark Earnest" > wrote in message
netamerica...
>
> "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> Where I live, near the end of a dead
>>> end street, the chances of any of them getting run down is miniscule.
>>
>> I live in a similar situation. All the homes are set back far from the
>> road. I don't remember any cats here (neighbors or mine) getting run
>> over, but several dogs were hit and killed on the road. Cats will
>> usually just "vanish" into thin air one day. So I can't leave mine
>> outside. My younger one has been trying to sneak out the front door when
>> I go out to fill the bird feeders. I fear one of these days she'll make
>> it. :(
>
> Well, if she does make it, she will be getting what she wanted most out of
> life, so it would not be a total loss. For her anyway.
>

Well, I live on the edge of town, and there is a huge Christmas tree farm
behind me. My back yard is totally unkempt up and there is a small stream (a
drainage ditch, really) behind me. You would think my cats would really
enjoy hunting mice and whatever in such an environment. But the truth of the
matter is that they spend 99 percent of their time in the house. Even in the
Summertime, they just sleep on the deck overlooking the back yard, and
seldom go down the stairs to go potty.....Most of the time, they would
prefer to use the cat box we keep in one of the bathrooms, incase one of
them is too sick or too old to bother going down the stairs.....They are
just too lazy to enjoy the great outdoors that I have provided for them! Now
a couple of them like the neighbors, and they will wait at the mailboxes and
greet the neighbors coming to get their mail once in a while. One of them
likes to hunt for moles in my next door neighbors front yard, which my
neighbor really likes because the moles wreck his beautiful lawn, so he
likes my cat to do this, and gives him goodies for mole bodies.....:^) In
any case they have all lived here for 6 years or more, and they seem to get
along very well, so I can't worry about them too much. After all, if it
hadn't been for me, most all of them would be dead by now, since I took them
in when nobody else wanted them.

Bill Graham
February 23rd 10, 03:38 AM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Well, All of the cats I have right now came to me from the outside world
>> as adults, and were used to being outside cats. If I had raised them from
>> kittenhood, then I would have considered keeping them trapped indoors,
>> and they wouldn't have known the difference, and probably would have been
>> very happy. But it is not just the cats happiness I have to
>> consider....Keeping inside cats requires a lot more trouble than keeping
>> outside cats. You can't just leave for a week and expect your cats to do
>> OK while you are gone as I can do with my five cats right now. So, it
>> requires a commitment, kind of like keeping dogs does. One might say that
>> I shouldn't have any cats at all if I let them go outside, but most of my
>> cats would have eventually been euthanized had I not taken them in, and
>> they have been very happy living with my wife and myself, so I am
>> satisfied with my decision to take them in and let them come and go
>> through the cat doors. We don't have many predators in my neighborhood,
>> and they have all done very well living here. They all seem to get along
>> with the raccoons well, probably because they don't compete for the same
>> food, and I haven't seen any wild coyotes here and I have been here for
>> 13 years now.
>
> As long as you and the cats are happy with the arrangement.......... :-)
>
> Right now I'm feeding 2 cats that I can't allow in even if they wanted to
> come in. I have to protect my indoor girls from disease. I'm concerned
> what will happen with them when we move this summer. I'm going to speak
> to my neighbor about making sure they're fed. She has a feral cat she's
> been feeding for years now. I hope she willing to feed 2 more.
>

-- It never hurts to trap them and let the vet neuter them and give them
their shots....This will protect your cats from catching any diseases from
them, as well as keeping the stray population down in your
neighborhood.....It will also make it a lot easier to tame them......

Bill Graham
February 23rd 10, 03:49 AM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mark Earnest" > wrote in message
> netamerica...
>>
>> "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
>> ...
> . My
>>> younger one has been trying to sneak out the front door when I go out to
>>> fill the bird feeders. I fear one of these days she'll make it. :(
>>
>
>> Well, if she does make it, she will be getting what she wanted most out
>> of life, so it would not be a total loss. For her anyway.
>
> The loss to us would be unbearable.... especially if we never found out
> what happened to her out there. She's only 4 1/2 months old.
> --
Yes.....I know what you mean. - I love all my cats and would hate to lose
any of them. But I also know that none of them are going to live forever, so
I will eventually lose all of them. The important thing to me is that they
enjoy whatever life they have left. I can only provide them with the
opportunity to live a good life.....Beyond that, they will have to make the
right choices to survive as well as they can. I refuse to trap them and keep
then in some "padded cell" environment just for their own "safety". This
would really be for me, and not for them. They were all born free, as it
were. They came to me, and I offered them the opportunity to live well, but
I refuse to force anything on them. Even B-K, doesn't have to live with
me......If I sensed that he was unhappy, I would have brought him back to
that parking lot and let him go. After all, he may have belonged to one of
the neighbors of the restaurant. I watched him carefully when I first
brought him home, to see if there were any signs that he was homesick......

Bill Graham
February 23rd 10, 03:57 AM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> But then I'm out in the boonies. I'm now feeding 2 more tomcats someone
>>> dumped off here on the road. They seem to be living under my
>>> outbuilding.
>>> --
>
>> Yes.....I have had that trouble with my cat doors too. There was a female
>> raccoon who couldn't fit through the cat door herself, but she would put
>> her kittens through it so they could eat the cat food. This did not seem
>> to bother my cats, but they will hiss at the adult raccoons that come up
>> on the back porch to eat the dog food we keep out there. We feed the
>> raccoons cheap dog food. They don't really like it, but when they are
>> very hungry, they will eat it rather than starve to death. We could end
>> up feeding hundreds of them if we put out better quality food, but we
>> stick with the 37-1/2 pound bags of, "Maintain" for $12 a bag, and that
>> works just fine....They eat it begrudgingly when they are really
>> hungry......
>
> For some reason I haven't seen coons around here in the past few years.
> I'm not sure why. But we still have skunks and possums. Both will enter
> homes. The fox and coyotes don't come real close to the houses. We have
> poisonous snakes here. I can't wait until we move this summer.
>
> Do you have the cats vaccinated for rabies?

Oh yes....They all have their shots for everything.....Our vet bill is
horrendous....the roving vet comes by the house every couple of months, and
it always costs me a couple of hundred dollars or more....I have to count
our cats as a very expensive hobby....But it is worth it, because we love
them all dearly and they give us a lot of pleasure. The neighbors probably
think we are crazy.....I see them tinkering with their sports cars and other
junk, like boats and stuff.....But I wouldn't have it any other way. My only
other hobby is playing my trumpet in the local bands. And that costs me
nothing at all.

Mark Earnest
February 23rd 10, 04:23 AM
"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mark Earnest" > wrote in message
> netamerica...
>>
>> "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> Where I live, near the end of a dead
>>>> end street, the chances of any of them getting run down is miniscule.
>>>
>>> I live in a similar situation. All the homes are set back far from the
>>> road. I don't remember any cats here (neighbors or mine) getting run
>>> over, but several dogs were hit and killed on the road. Cats will
>>> usually just "vanish" into thin air one day. So I can't leave mine
>>> outside. My younger one has been trying to sneak out the front door
>>> when I go out to fill the bird feeders. I fear one of these days she'll
>>> make it. :(
>>
>> Well, if she does make it, she will be getting what she wanted most out
>> of life, so it would not be a total loss. For her anyway.
>>
>
> Well, I live on the edge of town, and there is a huge Christmas tree farm
> behind me. My back yard is totally unkempt up and there is a small stream
> (a drainage ditch, really) behind me. You would think my cats would really
> enjoy hunting mice and whatever in such an environment. But the truth of
> the matter is that they spend 99 percent of their time in the house. Even
> in the Summertime, they just sleep on the deck overlooking the back yard,
> and seldom go down the stairs to go potty.....Most of the time, they would
> prefer to use the cat box we keep in one of the bathrooms, incase one of
> them is too sick or too old to bother going down the stairs.....They are
> just too lazy to enjoy the great outdoors that I have provided for them!
> Now a couple of them like the neighbors, and they will wait at the
> mailboxes and greet the neighbors coming to get their mail once in a
> while. One of them likes to hunt for moles in my next door neighbors front
> yard, which my neighbor really likes because the moles wreck his beautiful
> lawn, so he likes my cat to do this, and gives him goodies for mole
> bodies.....:^) In any case they have all lived here for 6 years or more,
> and they seem to get along very well, so I can't worry about them too
> much. After all, if it hadn't been for me, most all of them would be dead
> by now, since I took them in when nobody else wanted them.

I seldom make a distinction in my mind between cats and the great cats in
Africa. That is why I consider cats the top of the food chain.

And given the luxury of plenty of food and water, cats, domestic and greats,
have a predisposition to becoming lazy when they get past their
playing age.

Bill Graham
February 23rd 10, 05:31 AM
"Mark Earnest" > wrote in message
netamerica...
> I seldom make a distinction in my mind between cats and the great cats in
> Africa. That is why I consider cats the top of the food chain.
>
> And given the luxury of plenty of food and water, cats, domestic and
> greats, have a predisposition to becoming lazy when they get past their
> playing age.
>

Yes. I saw a nice piece on animal planet a few months ago about Indian
tigers.....I was amazed at how closely their life style follows my cats. The
only real difference is their size, and the prey they choose because of
their size....In all other respects they are identical.

Mark Earnest
February 24th 10, 01:34 AM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mark Earnest" > wrote in message
> netamerica...
>>
>> I seldom make a distinction in my mind between cats and the great cats in
>> Africa. That is why I consider cats the top of the food chain.
>
> They're not at the top of the food chain in many rural areas. Here the
> coyotes, bobcats, fox and large hawks all feed on domestic house cats.

**Sure, Kelly, cats are that way if you distinguish them from the great
cats. But I don't. When my cat walks, I see a wild lion hunting in the
grasslands.

John Doe
March 4th 10, 06:44 AM
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown fastmail.fm> wrote:

> 07 Feb 2010 06:44:54 GMT from John Doe <jdoe
> usenetlove.invalid>:
>> Yes, of course cats purr when they are contented. All you have
>> to do is notice that when they are riled, they stop purring.
>
> Thanks for playing, but no.

Bull****.

> See, for example
http://www.thanks-for-helping-us-get-hits.com
> where you can read

I am a keen observer and have many years of personal experience with
cats, no need to read your BS.

> they do purr when they are content. However they also purr when
> frightened

I would not know, pets are never frightened around me.

> severly injured

Says who? How did they find out? A veterinarian friend told me
that an injured kitten was purring while in her arms. Maybe it was
contented, I would have been.

> giving birth

Says who? How did they find out?

> and even while dying.

That ridiculous assertion sounds like another attention-getting
troll. My cats love life and would never sit there purring while
being killed. It might be understandable if they are dying while
not in pain and being held in someone's arms. And again, who says
so and how did they find out?

> Because of this, the contentment hypothesis clearly cannot be
> the only reason cats purr.

You mean like when you are sticking something into your cats hole,
Stan? Could be...

I know from experience that cats purr when they are contented.
Anything is possible, but I have never observed a cat purring for
other reasons.
--
















>
>
> --
> Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
> http://OakRoadSystems.com
> Shikata ga nai...
>

> Path: news.astraweb.com!border1.newsrouter.astraweb.com! news-
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not-for-mail
> From: Stan Brown <the_stan_brown fastmail.fm>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> Subject: Re: Cat Psychology
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:50:12 -0500
> Organization: Oak Road Systems
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John Doe
March 4th 10, 06:53 AM
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown fastmail.fm> wrote:

> ...it's well known that their "affectionate" behaviors are all
> either for their own comfort or ways of manipulating us,

Sounds like projecting your own personality, Stan.
--




















> at which they're astonishingly good.
>
>
> --
> Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
> http://OakRoadSystems.com
> Shikata ga nai...
>
>

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> From: Stan Brown <the_stan_brown fastmail.fm>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> Subject: Re: Cat Psychology
> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:09:48 -0500
> Organization: Oak Road Systems
> Lines: 22
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Patok
March 4th 10, 07:50 AM
Shadapa, gringo.

John Doe wrote:
> Stan Brown <the_stan_brown fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
>> ...it's well known that their "affectionate" behaviors are all
>> either for their own comfort or ways of manipulating us,
>
> Sounds like projecting your own personality, Stan.


> From: John Doe > References:
> >
> >
> ica>
> >
> erica>
> >
> >
> > User-Agent:
> Xnews/2006.08.05 Date: 04 Mar 2010 06:53:53 GMT Lines: 53 Message-ID:
> > Organization: Unlimited
> download news at news.astraweb.com NNTP-Posting-Host:
> 92627945.news.astraweb.com X-Trace:
> DXC=ofO:f?^?oeADIol_\Lk[[email protected]\cbX3\`@[email protected];`;a^YBLLVZg:>m5;[email protected]_VRo`5K8J

John Doe
April 6th 10, 06:57 AM
Patok <patok pataklama.net.invalid> wrote:

> Shadapa, gringo.

Hello asswipe troll.
--
























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> From: Patok <patok pataklama.net.invalid>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> Subject: Re: Cat Psychology
> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 02:50:21 -0500
> Organization: Gyola
> Lines: 25
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Patok
April 6th 10, 07:16 AM
John Doe wrote:
> Patok <patok pataklama.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Shadapa, gringo.
>
> Hello asswipe troll.

Shadapa, gringo.


--
Path:
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Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Subject: Re: Cat Psychology
From: John Doe >
References: >
>
ica>
>
erica>
>
>
>
> >
User-Agent: Xnews/2006.08.05
Date: 06 Apr 2010 05:57:54 GMT
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John Doe
April 6th 10, 07:54 AM
Patok <patok pataklama.net.invalid> wrote:

> John Doe wrote:
>> Patok <patok pataklama.net.invalid> wrote:

>>> Shadapa, gringo.
>>
>> Hello asswipe troll.
>
> Shadapa, gringo.

Are you nym-shifting, troll?
--






















> Path: news.astraweb.com!border1.newsrouter.astraweb.com! border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!go blin3!goblin.stu.neva.ru!matrix.darkstorm.co.uk!ai oe.org!not-for-mail
> From: Patok <patok pataklama.net.invalid>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> Subject: Re: Cat Psychology
> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 02:16:28 -0400
> Organization: Gyola
> Lines: 34
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Patok
April 6th 10, 10:04 PM
John Doe wrote:
> Patok <patok pataklama.net.invalid> wrote:
>> John Doe wrote:
>>> Patok <patok pataklama.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> Shadapa, gringo.
>>> Hello asswipe troll.
>> Shadapa, gringo.
>
> Are you nym-shifting, troll?

No. Troll yourself. Shadapa, gringo.

--
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Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Subject: Re: Cat Psychology
From: John Doe >
References: >
>
ica>
>
erica>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
User-Agent: Xnews/2006.08.05
Date: 06 Apr 2010 06:54:38 GMT
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John Doe
April 6th 10, 11:05 PM
Patok <patok pataklama.net.invalid> wrote:

> John Doe wrote:
>> Patok <patok pataklama.net.invalid> wrote:
>>> John Doe wrote:
>>>> Patok <patok pataklama.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Shadapa, gringo.
>>>> Hello asswipe troll.
>>> Shadapa, gringo.
>>
>> Are you nym-shifting, troll?
>
> No.

But of course you are, Pokémon.

> Troll yourself. Shadapa, gringo.

Apparently you are gung ho for freedom of speech, Pokémon, at the
same time you try to control the content on USENET. You reek of
hypocrisy, Pokémon.
--








Patok <crazy.div.patok gmail.com>

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> From: Patok <patok pataklama.net.invalid>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> Subject: Re: Cat Psychology
> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 17:04:15 -0400
> Organization: Gyola
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Linus Brown
April 7th 10, 01:41 AM
On Feb 6, 7:12*pm, "Mark Earnest" > wrote:

> If your cat is purring, and you fail to pet her,
> does it hurt her feelings?

Yes, now you have to make it up to her

Patok
April 7th 10, 06:52 AM
John Doe wrote:
> Patok <patok pataklama.net.invalid> wrote:
>> John Doe wrote:
>>> Patok <patok pataklama.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>> John Doe wrote:
>>>>> Patok <patok pataklama.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Shadapa, gringo.
>>>>> Hello asswipe troll.
>>>> Shadapa, gringo.
>>> Are you nym-shifting, troll?
>> No.
>
> But of course you are, Pokémon.
>
>> Troll yourself. Shadapa, gringo.
>
> Apparently you are gung ho for freedom of speech, Pokémon, at the
> same time you try to control the content on USENET. You reek of
> hypocrisy, Pokémon.

You're totally clueless, Jane Roe. You coulda looked up the phrase,
and understood it was irony. But you netkooks don't do irony, so there.
Pokemon troll yourself. Shadapa, gringo.

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Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,free.USENET
Subject: Re: Cat Psychology
From: John Doe >
References: >
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John Doe
April 7th 10, 05:56 PM
Patok <patok pataklama.net.invalid> wrote:

> You're totally clueless, Jane Roe. You coulda looked up the
> phrase [Shadapa, gringo], and understood it was irony.

Actually, Pokémon, I do not even very well understand the meaning
of "irony" (and not interested enough to study it).

> But you netkooks don't do irony, so there. Pokemon troll
> yourself. Shadapa, gringo.

We do anything you want, Pokémon, but not usually irony in a cats
group. Offhand, I know that the word "gringo" is a derogatory term
with the meaning of "foreigner".

Looking up the expression "Shadapa, gringo" on the open Internet,
Pokémon, there are seven results all of them by you?
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> From: Patok <patok pataklama.net.invalid>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> Subject: Re: Cat Psychology
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John Doe
April 7th 10, 06:06 PM
Linus Brown > wrote:

> "Mark Earnest" > wrote:
>
>> If your cat is purring, and you fail to pet her, does it hurt
>> her feelings?
>
> Yes, now you have to make it up to her

Since we are getting back to the subject.. During lightning and
thunder, my male cat gets frightened to the point that he can barely
stay in one place, and he definitely does not purr.

Bill Graham
April 7th 10, 09:07 PM
"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
> Linus Brown > wrote:
>
>> "Mark Earnest" > wrote:
>>
>>> If your cat is purring, and you fail to pet her, does it hurt
>>> her feelings?
>>
>> Yes, now you have to make it up to her
>
> Since we are getting back to the subject.. During lightning and
> thunder, my male cat gets frightened to the point that he can barely
> stay in one place, and he definitely does not purr.

When we first got Sarah, my music teacher's farm cat, she hated all the
other cats, and hissed and spit at them every chance she got. Until the
first lightening and thunder storm....Then I found her and Smokey, our feral
male sitting next to one another in the inside hall, which has no windows to
the outside....:^)

Patok
April 8th 10, 09:20 AM
John Doe wrote:
> Patok <patok pataklama.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> You're totally clueless, Jane Roe. You coulda looked up the
>> phrase [Shadapa, gringo], and understood it was irony.
>
> Actually, Pokémon, I do not even very well understand the meaning
> of "irony" (and not interested enough to study it).

Then you're not worth the electrons spent typing an answer to you,
Jane. I won't be replying to your delusional missives anymore.


>> But you netkooks don't do irony, so there. Pokemon troll
>> yourself. Shadapa, gringo.
>
> We do anything you want, Pokémon, but not usually irony in a cats
> group. Offhand, I know that the word "gringo" is a derogatory term
> with the meaning of "foreigner".
>
> Looking up the expression "Shadapa, gringo" on the open Internet,
> Pokémon, there are seven results all of them by you?

No. The first result on the "open Internet" (whatever that means)
tells the story. And it's not by me.
Pokemon troll irony yourself. Shadapa, gringo.

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Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav,alt.usage.english
Subject: Shadapa, gringo (was Re: Cat Psychology)
From: John Doe >
References: >
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John Doe
April 8th 10, 04:31 PM
Patok > wrote:

> John Doe wrote:
>> Patok <patok pataklama.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> You're totally clueless, Jane Roe. You coulda looked up the
>>> phrase [Shadapa, gringo], and understood it was irony.
>>
>> Actually, Pokémon, I do not even very well understand the
>> meaning of "irony" (and not interested enough to study it).
>
> Then you're not worth the electrons spent typing an answer
> to you,

Never underestimate stupid people in large numbers...

> Jane. I won't be replying to your delusional missives anymore.

Time will tell.

>>> But you netkooks don't do irony, so there. Pokemon troll
>>> yourself. Shadapa, gringo.
>>
>> We do anything you want, Pokémon, but not usually irony in a
>> cats group. Offhand, I know that the word "gringo" is a
>> derogatory term with the meaning of "foreigner".
>>
>> Looking up the expression "Shadapa, gringo" on the open
>> Internet, Pokémon, there are seven results all of them by you?
>
> No. The first result on the "open Internet" (whatever that
> means)
> tells the story. And it's not by me.
> Pokemon troll irony yourself. Shadapa, gringo.

But in fact, on Google, "Shadapa, gringo" now returns nine
results, the first and at least eight of them are by you, Pokémon.

John Doe
April 13th 10, 02:55 AM
"Bill Graham" > wrote:

> When we first got Sarah, my music teacher's farm cat, she hated
> all the other cats, and hissed and spit at them every chance she
> got. Until the first lightening and thunder storm....Then I
> found her and Smokey, our feral male sitting next to one another
> in the inside hall, which has no windows to the outside....:^)

My feral female is terrified of human beings. Been here since May
2007, and it is still no touch. In a gentle voice, I say "I like
Kiki..." and she replies "Then why are you here?" Maybe she's a
lesbian. Kidding. Fortunately, she loves the timid (neutered)
male. She shows respect for me from time to time, like when Kitty
plays too rough with her and I come to the rescue. At that time, I
sing to her and she starts rolling around like crazy. And then
yesterday, I left a T-shirt on their skyway, and she was rolling
around on that. There is just some switch in her brain that
prevents getting close without feeling terrified. I made a
platform addition to their skyway recently and she has been coming
out into the middle of the room to hang out up there during the
day, a first. It has an Astroturf mat and on it paper towels on
the mat, cool and comfortable, and more than big enough for both
of them. The male took to it immediately too.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

cybercat
April 15th 10, 12:52 AM
"John Doe" > wrote

>At that time, I
> sing to her and she starts rolling around like crazy.

What do you sing to her? Serious question.