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Stan Brown
February 14th 10, 04:32 PM
I do not want to restart the debate on dry versus wet food,(*) but I
thought some might be interested in my experience.

From age 1 (when I adopted him) to 2, Milo ate Purina Indoor, as
recommended by the shelter where he lived for a couple of months.
(The vet was okay with that.)

At his checkup in May 2009 the same vet told me to switch him to wet
food because Purina Indoor had too much carbohydrate for its protein
content. She gave me a list of brands including Wellness and EVO. I
obeyed, but there was a problem because Milo likes to take a bite or
two, walk away, then come back later. So the food quickly dried out
and became unappealing. There was thus a constant demand for me to
replace uneaten (and expensive) food with fresh. If I didn't have to
go to work, I suppose I could have fed him a tablespoon or two
hourly, but sine I do work in the day and sleep at night he's going
to get fed twice a day like most cats.

So I switched him to dry Wellness (which he hated) and then dry EVO.
He loved the dry EVO -- too much in fact. I fed him what the package
said, but he pretty much inhaled it. Within a few weeks he had
noticeably less energy, preferring just to lie around and ignoring
his toys when I tried to get him to play with them, and he had
visibly gained weight.

So I switched him back to Wellness wet food. He still pretty much
inhaled it, but his energy level increased within a few days, and he
started playing with his toys again. I'm now alternating Wellness
wet with EVO wet, which he eats slower, and his weight seems to be
declining a bit.

This is just one cat, obviously. And as I say, I don't want to
restart the religious discussion(*). But I thought it might be
interesting to others just how much of a difference it made for this
one cat, not just between mass-market dry and high-cost wet, but
between dry and wet of the same high-cost brands.


(*) This is Usenet, so I know how much effect that wish will have.
:-)


--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

MLB[_2_]
February 14th 10, 07:05 PM
Stan Brown wrote:
> I do not want to restart the debate on dry versus wet food,(*) but I
> thought some might be interested in my experience.
>
> From age 1 (when I adopted him) to 2, Milo ate Purina Indoor, as
> recommended by the shelter where he lived for a couple of months.
> (The vet was okay with that.)
>
> At his checkup in May 2009 the same vet told me to switch him to wet
> food because Purina Indoor had too much carbohydrate for its protein
> content. She gave me a list of brands including Wellness and EVO. I
> obeyed, but there was a problem because Milo likes to take a bite or
> two, walk away, then come back later. So the food quickly dried out
> and became unappealing. There was thus a constant demand for me to
> replace uneaten (and expensive) food with fresh. If I didn't have to
> go to work, I suppose I could have fed him a tablespoon or two
> hourly, but sine I do work in the day and sleep at night he's going
> to get fed twice a day like most cats.
>
> So I switched him to dry Wellness (which he hated) and then dry EVO.
> He loved the dry EVO -- too much in fact. I fed him what the package
> said, but he pretty much inhaled it. Within a few weeks he had
> noticeably less energy, preferring just to lie around and ignoring
> his toys when I tried to get him to play with them, and he had
> visibly gained weight.
>
> So I switched him back to Wellness wet food. He still pretty much
> inhaled it, but his energy level increased within a few days, and he
> started playing with his toys again. I'm now alternating Wellness
> wet with EVO wet, which he eats slower, and his weight seems to be
> declining a bit.
>
> This is just one cat, obviously. And as I say, I don't want to
> restart the religious discussion(*). But I thought it might be
> interesting to others just how much of a difference it made for this
> one cat, not just between mass-market dry and high-cost wet, but
> between dry and wet of the same high-cost brands.
>
>
> (*) This is Usenet, so I know how much effect that wish will have.
> :-)
>
>
Thanks you -- that is interesting. And how nice to get a sensible post
for a change. Best wishes. MLB

Matthew[_3_]
February 14th 10, 07:20 PM
"Stan Brown" > wrote in message
t...
>I do not want to restart the debate on dry versus wet food,(*) but I
> thought some might be interested in my experience.
>
> From age 1 (when I adopted him) to 2, Milo ate Purina Indoor, as
> recommended by the shelter where he lived for a couple of months.
> (The vet was okay with that.)
>
> At his checkup in May 2009 the same vet told me to switch him to wet
> food because Purina Indoor had too much carbohydrate for its protein
> content. She gave me a list of brands including Wellness and EVO. I
> obeyed, but there was a problem because Milo likes to take a bite or
> two, walk away, then come back later. So the food quickly dried out
> and became unappealing. There was thus a constant demand for me to
> replace uneaten (and expensive) food with fresh. If I didn't have to
> go to work, I suppose I could have fed him a tablespoon or two
> hourly, but sine I do work in the day and sleep at night he's going
> to get fed twice a day like most cats.
>
> So I switched him to dry Wellness (which he hated) and then dry EVO.
> He loved the dry EVO -- too much in fact. I fed him what the package
> said, but he pretty much inhaled it. Within a few weeks he had
> noticeably less energy, preferring just to lie around and ignoring
> his toys when I tried to get him to play with them, and he had
> visibly gained weight.
>
> So I switched him back to Wellness wet food. He still pretty much
> inhaled it, but his energy level increased within a few days, and he
> started playing with his toys again. I'm now alternating Wellness
> wet with EVO wet, which he eats slower, and his weight seems to be
> declining a bit.
>
> This is just one cat, obviously. And as I say, I don't want to
> restart the religious discussion(*). But I thought it might be
> interesting to others just how much of a difference it made for this
> one cat, not just between mass-market dry and high-cost wet, but
> between dry and wet of the same high-cost brands.
>
>
> (*) This is Usenet, so I know how much effect that wish will have.
> :-)
>
>
> --
> Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
> http://OakRoadSystems.com
> Shikata ga nai...

Stan

I use fancy feast dry food for my Ka'shay she refuse to eat anything else
and the only wet food is 9 lives tuna and egg with cheese than she will only
take one or two bites

Now as for the others since the pet food poisoning where I lost my heart
cat spirit I only use name brand now wet food and high grade dry and wet
no off brands

I use fancy feast wet food that was non grilled or roasted with what ever
had gravy in it. Yes there is lower brands with lesser ash content but
Rumble will only eat food with gravy. So it was a compromise since they had
the most varieties. Since Rumble diabetes is under control this way <
fingers crossed> it was worth the compromise.


But the strange thing is the cheaper the brand the smeller it is the more
they love it. Furballs and woman I never try to figure them out. I go
with the flow ;-)

Allan Smith
February 14th 10, 10:03 PM
Stan,

Sounds like a bout with pancreatitis (since resolved), to me.

If you haven't done it yet, it might not be a bad idea to print your post
and let your vet take a look at it.

Allan

--
One asks, many answer, all learn -- Plato, on the 'Forum
---
True civility is when every one gives to every other one every right
that they claim for themselves.

"Stan Brown" > wrote in message
t...
>I do not want to restart the debate on dry versus wet food,(*) but I
> thought some might be interested in my experience.
>

Stan Brown
February 15th 10, 04:41 PM
Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:20:07 -0500 from Matthew
>:
> But the strange thing is the cheaper the brand the smeller it is the more
> they love it. Furballs and woman I never try to figure them out. I go
> with the flow ;-)

Milo loves the Wellness cans that are really smelly (Sardine, Shrimp
& Crab). But when he gets the EVO chicken and turkey he seems to
prefer it out of the fridge, where it has little aroma (to my nose,
anyway).

As you say -- never try to figure them out.

I'm just happy to see him charging around getting exercise and
playing with his toys again. I'm probably anthropomorphizing, but he
seems like a much happier cat after the change in diet.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

Stan Brown
February 15th 10, 04:46 PM
Sun, 14 Feb 2010 16:03:05 -0500 from Allan Smith
>:
> Sounds like a bout with pancreatitis (since resolved), to me.
>
> If you haven't done it yet, it might not be a bad idea to print your post
> and let your vet take a look at it.

Thanks for the thought, but why do you suspect pancreatitis?(*) I
looked at

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1+1329&aid=334

and it said "Cats often show lethargy, dehydration, loss of appetite,
and weight loss."

The only symptom of the four that he displayed was lethargy. His nose
was still wet, he still had *plenty* of appetite, and he had weight
gain, not loss.

I'll mention it to the vet at his next visit in May, but is there any
reason to suspect a problem that should be addressed sooner?



(*) Interestingly, my spell checker didn't like this word. The
suggested correction, of all things, was "creationism"!

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

Phil P.
February 16th 10, 05:30 AM
"Allan Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Stan,
>
> Sounds like a bout with pancreatitis (since resolved), to me.


I'd *really* like to know how you deduced pancreatitis from a cat's food
preference-- especially since the hallmark of pancreatitis is *anorexia*!
Did you get that from the same book that you got "99% of the time,
Psychogenic Alopecia (self-barbering) is due to fleas" and "There is only
one way to get a tapeworm, and that is by ingesting a flea"?

Phil P.
February 16th 10, 05:44 AM
"Stan Brown" > wrote in message
t...
> obeyed, but there was a problem because Milo likes to take a bite or
> two, walk away, then come back later. So the food quickly dried out
> and became unappealing. There was thus a constant demand for me to
> replace uneaten (and expensive) food with fresh. If I didn't have to
> go to work, I suppose I could have fed him a tablespoon or two
> hourly, but sine I do work in the day and sleep at night he's going
> to get fed twice a day like most cats.

If you found a solution that works- don't change it. But if you run into a
problem, you could get an automatic feeder that you can set to dispense 6-8
meals a day, canned or dry. The compartment lids close tightly and keep
canned food pretty fresh- you can also add a little water or chicken broth
(unseasoned) to keep the food extra moist..

Phil

Phil P.
February 17th 10, 08:55 AM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
> t...
> . I
> > obeyed, but there was a problem because Milo likes to take a bite or
> > two, walk away, then come back later. So the food quickly dried out
> > and became unappealing. There was thus a constant demand for me to
> > replace uneaten (and expensive) food with fresh.
>
> Don't leave more than a bite or two when you leave in the morning. He'll
be
> hungry enough when you get home to eat more at one time. He needs a
feeding
> schedule. Soon he'll learn he has to eat everything at one time as cats do
> in nature and not nibble all day long.

Ah- but in nature cats *do* eat all day long:

"Cats typically eat 10 to 20 small meals throughout the day and night. This
eating pattern probably reflects the evolutionary relationship of cats and
their prey. "

and:

"Stomach



Because cats in the wild evolved to eat small frequent meals, the stomach is
less important as a storage reservoir compared with the stomach of dogs.
Thus, the stomach of domestic cats is simpler than that of dogs (i.e.,
relatively smaller with a smaller glandular fundus)."



From Cats as Carnivores in Small Animal Clinical Nutrition, 4th ed. p 297.



Don't feel bad- I was a proponent of twice a day feeding for years.

Mark Earnest
February 17th 10, 09:08 AM
"Phil P." wrote...>


Because cats in the wild evolved to eat small frequent meals,


**Must have been a lot of scurrying mice in ancient times.
Plus the occasional diving bird or fleeing lizard.

**Things must have been set up for those felines.

cybercat
February 17th 10, 02:10 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>> t...
>> . I
>> > obeyed, but there was a problem because Milo likes to take a bite or
>> > two, walk away, then come back later. So the food quickly dried out
>> > and became unappealing. There was thus a constant demand for me to
>> > replace uneaten (and expensive) food with fresh.
>>
>> Don't leave more than a bite or two when you leave in the morning. He'll
> be
>> hungry enough when you get home to eat more at one time. He needs a
> feeding
>> schedule. Soon he'll learn he has to eat everything at one time as cats
>> do
>> in nature and not nibble all day long.
>
> Ah- but in nature cats *do* eat all day long:
>
> "Cats typically eat 10 to 20 small meals throughout the day and night.
> This
> eating pattern probably reflects the evolutionary relationship of cats and
> their prey. "
>
> and:
>
> "Stomach
>
>
>
> Because cats in the wild evolved to eat small frequent meals, the stomach
> is
> less important as a storage reservoir compared with the stomach of dogs.
> Thus, the stomach of domestic cats is simpler than that of dogs (i.e.,
> relatively smaller with a smaller glandular fundus)."
>
>
>
> From Cats as Carnivores in Small Animal Clinical Nutrition, 4th ed. p 297.
>
>
>
> Don't feel bad- I was a proponent of twice a day feeding for years.
>

Geeze, when did this change?? The reasons you gave for twice daily feeding
were powerful, too, and had to do with avoiding serious health problems.

Phil P.
February 17th 10, 07:53 PM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
> >> t...
> >> . I
> >> > obeyed, but there was a problem because Milo likes to take a bite or
> >> > two, walk away, then come back later. So the food quickly dried out
> >> > and became unappealing. There was thus a constant demand for me to
> >> > replace uneaten (and expensive) food with fresh.
> >>
> >> Don't leave more than a bite or two when you leave in the morning.
He'll
> > be
> >> hungry enough when you get home to eat more at one time. He needs a
> > feeding
> >> schedule. Soon he'll learn he has to eat everything at one time as cats
> >> do
> >> in nature and not nibble all day long.
> >
> > Ah- but in nature cats *do* eat all day long:
> >
> > "Cats typically eat 10 to 20 small meals throughout the day and night.
> > This
> > eating pattern probably reflects the evolutionary relationship of cats
and
> > their prey. "
> >
> > and:
> >
> > "Stomach
> >
> >
> >
> > Because cats in the wild evolved to eat small frequent meals, the
stomach
> > is
> > less important as a storage reservoir compared with the stomach of dogs.
> > Thus, the stomach of domestic cats is simpler than that of dogs (i.e.,
> > relatively smaller with a smaller glandular fundus)."
> >
> >
> >
> > From Cats as Carnivores in Small Animal Clinical Nutrition, 4th ed. p
297.
> >
> >
> >
> > Don't feel bad- I was a proponent of twice a day feeding for years.
> >
>
> Geeze, when did this change?? The reasons you gave for twice daily feeding
> were powerful, too, and had to do with avoiding serious health problems.

I still recommend twice a day feeding for cats that are fed commercial cat
food. My reason for feeding twice a day is to allow enough time between
meals for the cat's natural urine acidity to return and dissolve whatever
struvite may have formed. Cats in the wild don't eat food that contains a
lot of plant material which alkalizes the urine. They eat primarily meat-
which naturally acidifies the urine. So they don't have a struvite problem.

jmc
February 18th 10, 03:13 AM
Suddenly, without warning, Stan Brown exclaimed (2/14/2010 10:32 AM):
> I do not want to restart the debate on dry versus wet food,(*) but I
> thought some might be interested in my experience.
>
> From age 1 (when I adopted him) to 2, Milo ate Purina Indoor, as
> recommended by the shelter where he lived for a couple of months.
> (The vet was okay with that.)
>
> At his checkup in May 2009 the same vet told me to switch him to wet
> food because Purina Indoor had too much carbohydrate for its protein
> content. She gave me a list of brands including Wellness and EVO. I
> obeyed, but there was a problem because Milo likes to take a bite or
> two, walk away, then come back later. So the food quickly dried out
> and became unappealing. There was thus a constant demand for me to
> replace uneaten (and expensive) food with fresh. If I didn't have to
> go to work, I suppose I could have fed him a tablespoon or two
> hourly, but sine I do work in the day and sleep at night he's going
> to get fed twice a day like most cats.
>
> So I switched him to dry Wellness (which he hated) and then dry EVO.
> He loved the dry EVO -- too much in fact. I fed him what the package
> said, but he pretty much inhaled it. Within a few weeks he had
> noticeably less energy, preferring just to lie around and ignoring
> his toys when I tried to get him to play with them, and he had
> visibly gained weight.
>
> So I switched him back to Wellness wet food. He still pretty much
> inhaled it, but his energy level increased within a few days, and he
> started playing with his toys again. I'm now alternating Wellness
> wet with EVO wet, which he eats slower, and his weight seems to be
> declining a bit.
>
> This is just one cat, obviously. And as I say, I don't want to
> restart the religious discussion(*). But I thought it might be
> interesting to others just how much of a difference it made for this
> one cat, not just between mass-market dry and high-cost wet, but
> between dry and wet of the same high-cost brands.
>
>
> (*) This is Usenet, so I know how much effect that wish will have.
> :-)
>
>

My cat's the same - a nibbler, especially with the wet. What I do is
add a teaspoon or two to the half-can of wet she gets twice a day, the
water helps keep the food fresher for longer, and also gives her the
extra hydration she needs to keep cystitis at bay.

Works pretty well, even if there' stuff left over in the morning (yes I
do toss it), it's still damp, not crusty and nasty at the top.

jmc

Max[_2_]
February 18th 10, 05:33 AM
On Feb 17, 9:13*pm, jmc > wrote:
> Suddenly, without warning, Stan Brown exclaimed (2/14/2010 10:32 AM):
>
>
>
> > I do not want to restart the debate on dry versus wet food,(*) but I
> > thought some might be interested in my experience.
>
> > From age 1 (when I adopted him) to 2, Milo ate Purina Indoor, as
> > recommended by the shelter where he lived for a couple of months.
> > (The vet was okay with that.)
>
> > At his checkup in May 2009 the same vet told me to switch him to wet
> > food because Purina Indoor had too much carbohydrate for its protein
> > content. *She gave me a list of brands including Wellness and EVO. *I
> > obeyed, but there was a problem because Milo likes to take a bite or
> > two, walk away, then come back later. So the food quickly dried out
> > and became unappealing. *There was thus a constant demand for me to
> > replace uneaten (and expensive) food with fresh. If I didn't have to
> > go to work, I suppose I could have fed him a tablespoon or two
> > hourly, but sine I do work in the day and sleep at night he's going
> > to get fed twice a day like most cats.
>
> > So I switched him to dry Wellness (which he hated) and then dry EVO. *
> > He loved the dry EVO -- too much in fact. I fed him what the package
> > said, but he pretty much inhaled it. *Within a few weeks he had
> > noticeably less energy, preferring just to lie around and ignoring
> > his toys when I tried to get him to play with them, and he had
> > visibly gained weight.
>
> > So I switched him back to Wellness wet food. *He still pretty much
> > inhaled it, but his energy level increased within a few days, and he
> > started playing with his toys again. *I'm now alternating Wellness
> > wet with EVO wet, which he eats slower, and his weight seems to be
> > declining a bit.
>
> > This is just one cat, obviously. *And as I say, I don't want to
> > restart the religious discussion(*). *But I thought it might be
> > interesting to others just how much of a difference it made for this
> > one cat, not just between mass-market dry and high-cost wet, but
> > between dry and wet of the same high-cost brands.
>
> > (*) This is Usenet, so I know how much effect that wish will have.
> > :-)
>
> My cat's the same - a nibbler, especially with the wet. *What I do is
> add a teaspoon or two to the half-can of wet she gets twice a day, the
> water helps keep the food fresher for longer, and also gives her the
> extra hydration she needs to keep cystitis at bay.
>
> Works pretty well, even if there' stuff left over in the morning (yes I
> do toss it), it's still damp, not crusty and nasty at the top.
>
> jmc

I have found, thanks to this group, a couple years ago, my cat Maxie,
when I got him, had very dry skin. Really flaky skin, like dandruff. I
know my vet was going to recommend something to treat it but the
subject was passed up for more serious issues at that time.

The frustrating thing is that the vet only recommends dry food! I
really am starting to think this is because they can make more money
on cats if they are on a dry food diet. Here is why:

Ever since my cats have been on wet food, the dry skin issue has been
gone. That one issue alone would convince me to switch to wet food,
but with Maxie there were other urinary issues, too, all of which have
seemingly been resolved. Two years now, no inappropriate elimination
issues, and he is the joy of our lives. Seriously, I love both our
cats for different reasons, but Maxie has so much personality! I have
never regretted bringing him home.

Interestingly, my cats only get as much as they will eat in one
sitting, two times a day. I constantly watch them for weight issues,
and sadly, I cannot get them to a weight where they seem "slim". They
are both still a bit on the over weight side. I don't know, they play
constantly with one another, and one is six and the other is seven now
at least. They have lots of energy... but I would never say they were
especially "slim".

In any case, I do know that they are happier and healthier on wet
food. Nothing has been more clear to me in my life.

Phil P.
February 18th 10, 09:00 PM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
> >> t...
> >> . I
> >> > obeyed, but there was a problem because Milo likes to take a bite or
> >> > two, walk away, then come back later. So the food quickly dried out
> >> > and became unappealing. There was thus a constant demand for me to
> >> > replace uneaten (and expensive) food with fresh.
> >>
> >> Don't leave more than a bite or two when you leave in the morning.
He'll
> > be
> >> hungry enough when you get home to eat more at one time. He needs a
> > feeding
> >> schedule. Soon he'll learn he has to eat everything at one time as cats
> >> do
> >> in nature and not nibble all day long.
> >
> > Ah- but in nature cats *do* eat all day long:
>
> Ah, - but they do NOT eat all day long.


Okey dokey...

jmc
February 18th 10, 10:42 PM
Suddenly, without warning, Max exclaimed (2/17/2010 11:33 PM):
> On Feb 17, 9:13 pm, jmc > wrote:
>> Suddenly, without warning, Stan Brown exclaimed (2/14/2010 10:32 AM):
>>
>>
>>
>>> I do not want to restart the debate on dry versus wet food,(*) but I
>>> thought some might be interested in my experience.
>>> From age 1 (when I adopted him) to 2, Milo ate Purina Indoor, as
>>> recommended by the shelter where he lived for a couple of months.
>>> (The vet was okay with that.)
>>> At his checkup in May 2009 the same vet told me to switch him to wet
>>> food because Purina Indoor had too much carbohydrate for its protein
>>> content. She gave me a list of brands including Wellness and EVO. I
>>> obeyed, but there was a problem because Milo likes to take a bite or
>>> two, walk away, then come back later. So the food quickly dried out
>>> and became unappealing. There was thus a constant demand for me to
>>> replace uneaten (and expensive) food with fresh. If I didn't have to
>>> go to work, I suppose I could have fed him a tablespoon or two
>>> hourly, but sine I do work in the day and sleep at night he's going
>>> to get fed twice a day like most cats.
>>> So I switched him to dry Wellness (which he hated) and then dry EVO.
>>> He loved the dry EVO -- too much in fact. I fed him what the package
>>> said, but he pretty much inhaled it. Within a few weeks he had
>>> noticeably less energy, preferring just to lie around and ignoring
>>> his toys when I tried to get him to play with them, and he had
>>> visibly gained weight.
>>> So I switched him back to Wellness wet food. He still pretty much
>>> inhaled it, but his energy level increased within a few days, and he
>>> started playing with his toys again. I'm now alternating Wellness
>>> wet with EVO wet, which he eats slower, and his weight seems to be
>>> declining a bit.
>>> This is just one cat, obviously. And as I say, I don't want to
>>> restart the religious discussion(*). But I thought it might be
>>> interesting to others just how much of a difference it made for this
>>> one cat, not just between mass-market dry and high-cost wet, but
>>> between dry and wet of the same high-cost brands.
>>> (*) This is Usenet, so I know how much effect that wish will have.
>>> :-)
>> My cat's the same - a nibbler, especially with the wet. What I do is
>> add a teaspoon or two to the half-can of wet she gets twice a day, the
>> water helps keep the food fresher for longer, and also gives her the
>> extra hydration she needs to keep cystitis at bay.
>>
>> Works pretty well, even if there' stuff left over in the morning (yes I
>> do toss it), it's still damp, not crusty and nasty at the top.
>>
>> jmc
>
> I have found, thanks to this group, a couple years ago, my cat Maxie,
> when I got him, had very dry skin. Really flaky skin, like dandruff. I
> know my vet was going to recommend something to treat it but the
> subject was passed up for more serious issues at that time.
>
> The frustrating thing is that the vet only recommends dry food! I
> really am starting to think this is because they can make more money
> on cats if they are on a dry food diet. Here is why:
>
> Ever since my cats have been on wet food, the dry skin issue has been
> gone. That one issue alone would convince me to switch to wet food,
> but with Maxie there were other urinary issues, too, all of which have
> seemingly been resolved. Two years now, no inappropriate elimination
> issues, and he is the joy of our lives. Seriously, I love both our
> cats for different reasons, but Maxie has so much personality! I have
> never regretted bringing him home.
>
> Interestingly, my cats only get as much as they will eat in one
> sitting, two times a day. I constantly watch them for weight issues,
> and sadly, I cannot get them to a weight where they seem "slim". They
> are both still a bit on the over weight side. I don't know, they play
> constantly with one another, and one is six and the other is seven now
> at least. They have lots of energy... but I would never say they were
> especially "slim".
>
> In any case, I do know that they are happier and healthier on wet
> food. Nothing has been more clear to me in my life.

My experience exactly. I had to get Meep off of *all* dry food - except
for her treats - to finally get the cystitis attacks to stop. She was
also dandruffy on dry, which cleared up on wet. When she isn't a
walking tesla coil (poor thing is terribly staticky), her coat is very
soft and shiny now.

I've had vets recommend wet food, mostly for the teeth. My cat gets her
6 greenies a day for that.

jmc

cybercat
February 18th 10, 11:10 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >>
>> >> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>> >> t...
>> >> . I
>> >> > obeyed, but there was a problem because Milo likes to take a bite or
>> >> > two, walk away, then come back later. So the food quickly dried out
>> >> > and became unappealing. There was thus a constant demand for me to
>> >> > replace uneaten (and expensive) food with fresh.
>> >>
>> >> Don't leave more than a bite or two when you leave in the morning.
> He'll
>> > be
>> >> hungry enough when you get home to eat more at one time. He needs a
>> > feeding
>> >> schedule. Soon he'll learn he has to eat everything at one time as
>> >> cats
>> >> do
>> >> in nature and not nibble all day long.
>> >
>> > Ah- but in nature cats *do* eat all day long:
>>
>> Ah, - but they do NOT eat all day long.
>
>
> Okey dokey...
>

:)

cybercat
February 18th 10, 11:46 PM
"Judith Latham" > wrote
> This is something that I'm having thoughts about with Sootie. At the RSPCA
> home she had been fed dry food.

Because it is generally cheaper, and therefore apt to be donated. That is
why my kitten came to us accustomed to dry food.

dgk
February 19th 10, 07:44 PM
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:10:16 -0500, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>
>"Phil P." > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> >
>>> > "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
>>> > ...
>>> >>
>>> >> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>>> >> t...
>>> >> . I
>>> >> > obeyed, but there was a problem because Milo likes to take a bite or
>>> >> > two, walk away, then come back later. So the food quickly dried out
>>> >> > and became unappealing. There was thus a constant demand for me to
>>> >> > replace uneaten (and expensive) food with fresh.
>>> >>
>>> >> Don't leave more than a bite or two when you leave in the morning.
>> He'll
>>> > be
>>> >> hungry enough when you get home to eat more at one time. He needs a
>>> > feeding
>>> >> schedule. Soon he'll learn he has to eat everything at one time as
>>> >> cats
>>> >> do
>>> >> in nature and not nibble all day long.
>>> >
>>> > Ah- but in nature cats *do* eat all day long:
>>>
>>> Ah, - but they do NOT eat all day long.
>>
>>
>> Okey dokey...
>>
>
>:)
>

From my small and unscientific sample, I have two cats that will
simply feed until they explode, another that eats a fair amount and
then walks away, and one that eats a small amount, walks away, comes
back a few minutes later for an encore, and then likes to nibble
during the day.

My efforts are, therefore, to get the nibbler to eat as much at
mealtime as possible. I follow him around with the bowl and put it in
front of him for a few minutes. Then it all goes away because I can't
leave it around.

My hope is that someday someone will invent a feeding device that is
keyed to each cat so I can put in whatever is appropriate for that cat
and it will open only for him/her.

Phil P.
February 20th 10, 05:38 AM
"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> >> > "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> >>
> >> >> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
> >> >> t...
> >> >> . I
> >> >> > obeyed, but there was a problem because Milo likes to take a bite
or
> >> >> > two, walk away, then come back later. So the food quickly dried
out
> >> >> > and became unappealing. There was thus a constant demand for me
to
> >> >> > replace uneaten (and expensive) food with fresh.
> >> >>
> >> >> Don't leave more than a bite or two when you leave in the morning.
> > He'll
> >> > be
> >> >> hungry enough when you get home to eat more at one time. He needs a
> >> > feeding
> >> >> schedule. Soon he'll learn he has to eat everything at one time as
> >> >> cats
> >> >> do
> >> >> in nature and not nibble all day long.
> >> >
> >> > Ah- but in nature cats *do* eat all day long:
> >>
> >> Ah, - but they do NOT eat all day long.
> >
> >
> > Okey dokey...
> >
>
> :)


lol! It would've been an endless debate- and like trying to nail jello to
the ceiling.

cybercat
February 20th 10, 06:40 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...
>
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >>
>> >> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> >
>> >> > "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
>> >> > ...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>> >> >> t...
>> >> >> . I
>> >> >> > obeyed, but there was a problem because Milo likes to take a bite
> or
>> >> >> > two, walk away, then come back later. So the food quickly dried
> out
>> >> >> > and became unappealing. There was thus a constant demand for me
> to
>> >> >> > replace uneaten (and expensive) food with fresh.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Don't leave more than a bite or two when you leave in the morning.
>> > He'll
>> >> > be
>> >> >> hungry enough when you get home to eat more at one time. He needs
>> >> >> a
>> >> > feeding
>> >> >> schedule. Soon he'll learn he has to eat everything at one time as
>> >> >> cats
>> >> >> do
>> >> >> in nature and not nibble all day long.
>> >> >
>> >> > Ah- but in nature cats *do* eat all day long:
>> >>
>> >> Ah, - but they do NOT eat all day long.
>> >
>> >
>> > Okey dokey...
>> >
>>
>> :)
>
>
> lol! It would've been an endless debate- and like trying to nail jello to
> the ceiling.
>

Particularly with this wingnut. I don't blame you a bit.

Kelly Greene
February 21st 10, 01:00 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...
> lol! It would've been an endless debate- and like trying to nail jello to
> the ceiling.

You could tell us where you saw cats eating constantly and all day long.
You could have told us what they were eating. Mice? Birds? Small snakes?
Baby rabbits?

I just told you what we observed where I live among the feral cats.

--
The Parrish *~, American-American-American.
* * * * * *
"The Mass is the most perfect form of making money."
* * * * * * * *

Bill Graham
February 21st 10, 04:31 AM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...
>
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >>
>> >> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> >
>> >> > "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
>> >> > ...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
>> >> >> t...
>> >> >> . I
>> >> >> > obeyed, but there was a problem because Milo likes to take a bite
> or
>> >> >> > two, walk away, then come back later. So the food quickly dried
> out
>> >> >> > and became unappealing. There was thus a constant demand for me
> to
>> >> >> > replace uneaten (and expensive) food with fresh.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Don't leave more than a bite or two when you leave in the morning.
>> > He'll
>> >> > be
>> >> >> hungry enough when you get home to eat more at one time. He needs
>> >> >> a
>> >> > feeding
>> >> >> schedule. Soon he'll learn he has to eat everything at one time as
>> >> >> cats
>> >> >> do
>> >> >> in nature and not nibble all day long.
>> >> >
>> >> > Ah- but in nature cats *do* eat all day long:
>> >>
>> >> Ah, - but they do NOT eat all day long.
>> >
>> >
>> > Okey dokey...
>> >
>>
>> :)
>
>
> lol! It would've been an endless debate- and like trying to nail jello to
> the ceiling.
>
>
>
And pointless, because, "Cats" don't do anything. Individual cats do
things.....Some eat all day long, and some eat once or twice a day.......

Phil P.
February 21st 10, 11:10 AM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ...
> > lol! It would've been an endless debate- and like trying to nail jello
to
> > the ceiling.
>
> You could tell us where you saw cats eating constantly and all day long.


I didn't say cats eat 'constantly' all day long, now did I? I said "in
nature cats *do* eat all day long". Followed by "Cats typically eat 10 to 20
small meals throughout the day and night." 10-20 smalls a day breaks down
to about 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 hours between meals. That is not 'constantly' but
it *is* "all day long". That is the natural feeding behavior of cats in the
wild and from where the grazing feeding behavior in house cats evolved.

Here's a brief excerpt from a study by John Bradshaw- the feline biologist,
published in the Journal of Nutrition a few years ago:

"That they are descended from a specialist predator is readily apparent from
their dentition, which is dominated by large canines, used to sever the neck
vertebrae of mammalian prey, and carnassials for shearing flesh from bone;
the incisors and molars are relatively small. Unlike wolves, they are
exclusively solitary hunters, and therefore usually take prey with much
lower body-mass than their own, necessitating several kills per day. This is
reflected in the ad libitum meal-patterning of
domestic cats, which take several small meals, spread throughout the 24 h of
the day"


Anyone who free feds their cats can tell you their cats nibble at least
10-15 times a day- or more if they're active.



> You could have told us what they were eating. Mice? Birds? Small snakes?
> Baby rabbits?

An average-size mouse provides about 25-30 kcals- smaller mice and babies
provide less. An intact cat in the wild has a daily energy requirement of
about 60 kcals/kg or about 30 kcals/lb. Do the math.


>
> I just told you what we observed where I live among the feral cats.

I understand that- but you don't know what they're doing or how often they
eat when you don't see them. Cats are like icebergs- there's a hell of a
lot more to them than what you see.

Do a search on the origins of the feeding behavior in domestic cats-

Phil P.
February 21st 10, 11:10 AM
"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "cybercat" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> >> > "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> >>
> >> >> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
> >> >> > ...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Stan Brown" > wrote in message
> >> >> >> t...
> >> >> >> . I
> >> >> >> > obeyed, but there was a problem because Milo likes to take a
bite
> > or
> >> >> >> > two, walk away, then come back later. So the food quickly dried
> > out
> >> >> >> > and became unappealing. There was thus a constant demand for
me
> > to
> >> >> >> > replace uneaten (and expensive) food with fresh.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Don't leave more than a bite or two when you leave in the
morning.
> >> > He'll
> >> >> > be
> >> >> >> hungry enough when you get home to eat more at one time. He
needs
> >> >> >> a
> >> >> > feeding
> >> >> >> schedule. Soon he'll learn he has to eat everything at one time
as
> >> >> >> cats
> >> >> >> do
> >> >> >> in nature and not nibble all day long.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Ah- but in nature cats *do* eat all day long:
> >> >>
> >> >> Ah, - but they do NOT eat all day long.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Okey dokey...
> >> >
> >>
> >> :)
> >
> >
> > lol! It would've been an endless debate- and like trying to nail jello
to
> > the ceiling.
> >
> >
> >
> And pointless, because, "Cats" don't do anything. Individual cats do
> things.....Some eat all day long, and some eat once or twice a day.......
>

Speaking of pointless...

cybercat
February 21st 10, 03:29 PM
"Phil P." > wrote
> Anyone who free feds their cats can tell you their cats nibble at least
> 10-15 times a day- or more if they're active.

I never did when we had Boo because she didn't know when to stop. Now that I
have my skinny Gracie and the kitten, I feed them all they want, which does
not wind up being much, but they do look for it at least ten times a day. I
wind up putting a dish out in the morning, then putting it away after half
an hour or so, and putting it out again when they are sniffing around. I
have now have dry out as well, and they graze throughout the day.

Phil P.
February 22nd 10, 10:20 AM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> You could tell us where you saw cats eating constantly and all day
long.
> >
> >
> > I didn't say cats eat 'constantly' all day long, now did I? I said "in
> > nature cats *do* eat all day long". Followed by "Cats typically eat 10
to
> > 20
> > small meals throughout the day and night." ****10-20 smalls a day
breaks
> > down
> > to about 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 hours between meals. **** That is not
'constantly'
> > but
> > it *is* "all day long". That is the natural feeding behavior of cats in
> > the
> > wild and from where the grazing feeding behavior in house cats evolved.
>
> OK. But that's not what I observed in two rural areas of TN and one in NY
> State.

Perhaps you need to observe a little closer.


>
> > Here's a brief excerpt from a study by John Bradshaw- the feline
> > biologist,
> > published in the Journal of Nutrition a few years ago:
>
> > "That they are descended from a specialist predator is readily apparent
> > from
> > their dentition, which is dominated by large canines, used to sever the
> > neck
> > vertebrae of mammalian prey, and carnassials for shearing flesh from
bone;
> > the incisors and molars are relatively small. Unlike wolves, they are
> > exclusively solitary hunters, and therefore usually take prey with much
> > lower body-mass than their own, necessitating several kills per day.
This
> > is
> > reflected in the ad libitum meal-patterning of
> > domestic cats, which take several small meals, spread throughout the 24
h
> > of
> > the day"
>
> YES! Several small meals a day. Not a small meal every 1 1/2 to 2 1/2
> hours as you mentioned above (see **** above).


10 to 20 small meals over a 24 hour period averages out to about 1 1/2 to 2
1/2 hours, more or less, between meals. Do the math.


Or nibbling constantly all
> day on dry kibble. Worse if it contains filler grains like corn.


I was discussing the natural feeding behavior of cats. That's it for me.

If you want to cite websites that discuss dry verses wet cat food, read
mine. It was the first factual discussion and the best, and from where all
the other sites obtained their references.



Dry Food vs Canned Food. Which is really better?

http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm#Dry_Food_vs_Canned_Food.__Whi ch_is_reall

Bill Graham
February 23rd 10, 04:30 AM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> lol! It would've been an endless debate- and like trying to nail jello
>>> to
>>> the ceiling.
>>>
>
>> And pointless, because, "Cats" don't do anything. Individual cats do
>> things.....Some eat all day long, and some eat once or twice a day.......
>
>
> This is true. Unfortunately all to many cats who eat all day long (kibble
> left out) are becoming obese and unhealthy. Mine are thriving on 3
> wet/raw meals a day. I will probably phase out the raw meat because they
> really don't like it and canned is more convenient.
> --
Yes. Some of my cats have been overweight from time to time. One had a
thyroid problem and got very obese before we figured out what was wrong with
her, and had her thyroid half-removed....Now she is back to normal and is
doing fine. Another is too thin, but he is over 15 years old, and is not
well at all. We never know whether he is hurting or not. and we keep a sharp
eye on him so we will know when to call the vet and have him put
down......We were going to do just that last month, but he seemed to regain
some ground, and has been doing rather well for the last couple of weeks. He
is my wife's favorite and she babies him all the time. With five of them, we
never know just what to expect, and it is hard to keep their food separate
from one another.....We do what we have to do to keep them all healthy......

Bill Graham
February 23rd 10, 04:34 AM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> And pointless, because, "Cats" don't do anything. Individual cats do
>>> things.....Some eat all day long, and some eat once or twice a
>>> day.......
>>>
>>
>> Speaking of pointless...
>>
>
> I think what makes the difference is whether dry kibble is being fed or
> wet/raw meat is being fed. And then cats are very much individuals.


B-K seldom eats anything but dry food, although I have been able to get him
to eat some roast chicken from time to time....He was thoroughly sick of
human food after I got him home from the Burger King parking lot.....He is
the one who hunts, so he supplements his dry food diet with fresh kills now
and then......

jmc
February 24th 10, 03:47 AM
Suddenly, without warning, Kelly Greene exclaimed (2/23/2010 7:33 PM):
>
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> This is true. Unfortunately all to many cats who eat all day long
>>> (kibble left out) are becoming obese and unhealthy. Mine are
>>> thriving on 3 wet/raw meals a day. I will probably phase out the raw
>>> meat because they really don't like it and canned is more convenient.
>>> --
>
>> Yes. Some of my cats have been overweight from time to time. One had a
>> thyroid problem and got very obese before we figured out what was
>> wrong with her, and had her thyroid half-removed....Now she is back to
>> normal and is doing fine. Another is too thin, but he is over 15 years
>> old, and is not well at all. We never know whether he is hurting or
>> not. and we keep a sharp eye on him so we will know when to call the
>> vet and have him put down......We were going to do just that last
>> month, but he seemed to regain some ground, and has been doing rather
>> well for the last couple of weeks. He is my wife's favorite and she
>> babies him all the time. With five of them, we never know just what to
>> expect, and it is hard to keep their food separate from one
>> another.....We do what we have to do to keep them all healthy......
>
> That's all you can do. It's more than many other people do. :) Our
> two, here since
> last Nov 9th, are both slender. But who knows what the future will
> bring when they're
> older and less active.

Can go both ways. My cat was just slightly chubby most of her life; now
that she's 13 I have some trouble keeping the weight ON her. Although,
that's not so much age as diet. After 3 or so years on a wet diet,
she's still convinced I'm torturing her and if she just asks enough,
I'll relent and feed her dry again.

My dedicated obligate carbivore :)

jmc

Mark Earnest
February 24th 10, 04:22 AM
"jmc" > wrote in message
...
> Suddenly, without warning, Kelly Greene exclaimed (2/23/2010 7:33 PM):
>>
>> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> This is true. Unfortunately all to many cats who eat all day long
>>>> (kibble left out) are becoming obese and unhealthy. Mine are thriving
>>>> on 3 wet/raw meals a day. I will probably phase out the raw meat
>>>> because they really don't like it and canned is more convenient.
>>>> --
>>
>>> Yes. Some of my cats have been overweight from time to time. One had a
>>> thyroid problem and got very obese before we figured out what was wrong
>>> with her, and had her thyroid half-removed....Now she is back to normal
>>> and is doing fine. Another is too thin, but he is over 15 years old, and
>>> is not well at all. We never know whether he is hurting or not. and we
>>> keep a sharp eye on him so we will know when to call the vet and have
>>> him put down......We were going to do just that last month, but he
>>> seemed to regain some ground, and has been doing rather well for the
>>> last couple of weeks. He is my wife's favorite and she babies him all
>>> the time. With five of them, we never know just what to expect, and it
>>> is hard to keep their food separate from one another.....We do what we
>>> have to do to keep them all healthy......
>>
>> That's all you can do. It's more than many other people do. :) Our
>> two, here since
>> last Nov 9th, are both slender. But who knows what the future will bring
>> when they're
>> older and less active.
>
> Can go both ways. My cat was just slightly chubby most of her life; now
> that she's 13 I have some trouble keeping the weight ON her. Although,
> that's not so much age as diet. After 3 or so years on a wet diet, she's
> still convinced I'm torturing her and if she just asks enough, I'll relent
> and feed her dry again.
>
> My dedicated obligate carbivore :)

You may only say no to a cat's meow so many times.
True in my case anyway. I am weak willed when they try
to order me around. Just fed my cat straight people tuna
after being asked several times.

Bill Graham
February 24th 10, 04:44 AM
"Mark Earnest" > wrote in message
netamerica...
>
> "jmc" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Suddenly, without warning, Kelly Greene exclaimed (2/23/2010 7:33 PM):
>>>
>>> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> This is true. Unfortunately all to many cats who eat all day long
>>>>> (kibble left out) are becoming obese and unhealthy. Mine are thriving
>>>>> on 3 wet/raw meals a day. I will probably phase out the raw meat
>>>>> because they really don't like it and canned is more convenient.
>>>>> --
>>>
>>>> Yes. Some of my cats have been overweight from time to time. One had a
>>>> thyroid problem and got very obese before we figured out what was wrong
>>>> with her, and had her thyroid half-removed....Now she is back to normal
>>>> and is doing fine. Another is too thin, but he is over 15 years old,
>>>> and is not well at all. We never know whether he is hurting or not. and
>>>> we keep a sharp eye on him so we will know when to call the vet and
>>>> have him put down......We were going to do just that last month, but he
>>>> seemed to regain some ground, and has been doing rather well for the
>>>> last couple of weeks. He is my wife's favorite and she babies him all
>>>> the time. With five of them, we never know just what to expect, and it
>>>> is hard to keep their food separate from one another.....We do what we
>>>> have to do to keep them all healthy......
>>>
>>> That's all you can do. It's more than many other people do. :) Our
>>> two, here since
>>> last Nov 9th, are both slender. But who knows what the future will
>>> bring when they're
>>> older and less active.
>>
>> Can go both ways. My cat was just slightly chubby most of her life; now
>> that she's 13 I have some trouble keeping the weight ON her. Although,
>> that's not so much age as diet. After 3 or so years on a wet diet, she's
>> still convinced I'm torturing her and if she just asks enough, I'll
>> relent and feed her dry again.
>>
>> My dedicated obligate carbivore :)
>
> You may only say no to a cat's meow so many times.
> True in my case anyway. I am weak willed when they try
> to order me around. Just fed my cat straight people tuna
> after being asked several times.
>

Several years ago, I found some "people tuna" on sale at Safeway.....It was
only 40 cents a can, as I remember.....Since the canned cat food was 50
cents a can at that time, I bought several cans of this stuff.....When I got
home, and opened a can of it for my cats, it looked so bad that I thought it
was the cat food, and the cats wouldn't even give it a try! One sniff, and
they turned and walked away! It serves me right.....Safeway is one store
that I can't stand. I only go in there to use their ATM machine. (It belongs
to my bank) I should have known better than to actually spend some money
there)

Kelly Greene[_2_]
February 26th 10, 02:06 PM
"Phil P." > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> You could tell us where you saw cats eating constantly and all day
> long.
>> >
>> >
>> > I didn't say cats eat 'constantly' all day long, now did I? I said "in
>> > nature cats *do* eat all day long". Followed by "Cats typically eat 10
> to
>> > 20
>> > small meals throughout the day and night." ****10-20 smalls a day
> breaks
>> > down
>> > to about 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 hours between meals. **** That is not
> 'constantly'
>> > but
>> > it *is* "all day long". That is the natural feeding behavior of cats
>> > in
>> > the
>> > wild and from where the grazing feeding behavior in house cats evolved.
>>
>> OK. But that's not what I observed in two rural areas of TN and one in
>> NY
>> State.
>
> Perhaps you need to observe a little closer.

I did. I spent most of my time outdoors in the warm weather.

>> > Here's a brief excerpt from a study by John Bradshaw- the feline
>> > biologist,
>> > published in the Journal of Nutrition a few years ago:
>>
>> > "That they are descended from a specialist predator is readily apparent
>> > from
>> > their dentition, which is dominated by large canines, used to sever the
>> > neck
>> > vertebrae of mammalian prey, and carnassials for shearing flesh from
> bone;
>> > the incisors and molars are relatively small. Unlike wolves, they are
>> > exclusively solitary hunters, and therefore usually take prey with much
>> > lower body-mass than their own, necessitating several kills per day.
> This
>> > is
>> > reflected in the ad libitum meal-patterning of
>> > domestic cats, which take several small meals, spread throughout the 24
> h
>> > of
>> > the day"
>>
>> YES! Several small meals a day. Not a small meal every 1 1/2 to 2 1/2
>> hours as you mentioned above (see **** above).
>
>
> 10 to 20 small meals over a 24 hour period averages out to about 1 1/2 to
> 2
> 1/2 hours, more or less, between meals. Do the math.

Do what math? We're discussing cats, not "math." You seem to have watched
a colony where you live and are convinced all cats are out hunting every 1
1/2 to 2 1/2 hours a day. That's not what I witnessed with several colonies
here in TN.

> Or nibbling constantly all
>> day on dry kibble. Worse if it contains filler grains like corn.
>
>
> I was discussing the natural feeding behavior of cats. That's it for me.
>
> If you want to cite websites that discuss dry verses wet cat food, read
> mine. It was the first factual discussion and the best, and from where
> all
> the other sites obtained their references.

I don't see what that has to do with free feeding grain filled dry foods. I
know which is better = their natural diet - meat!

> Dry Food vs Canned Food. Which is really better?
>
> http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm#Dry_Food_vs_Canned_Food.__Whi ch_is_reall
>
>

Kelly Greene[_2_]
February 26th 10, 02:11 PM
"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
>
> B-K seldom eats anything but dry food, although I have been able to get
> him to eat some roast chicken from time to time....He was thoroughly sick
> of human food after I got him home from the Burger King parking lot.....He
> is the one who hunts, so he supplements his dry food diet with fresh kills
> now and then......

Indoor-outdoor cats can supplement their diet with fresh "meat." They also
get plenty of exercise to burn off any dry high-carb kibble. A housecat
sitting around indoors nibbling all day on dry grain-filled kibble is as
unnatural as can be. I've lost sight of what his argument is....

Kelly Greene[_2_]
February 26th 10, 02:14 PM
"jmc" > wrote in message
...
> Suddenly, without warning, Kelly Greene exclaimed (2/23/2010 7:33 PM):
>> That's all you can do. It's more than many other people do. :) Our
>> two, here since
>> last Nov 9th, are both slender. But who knows what the future will bring
>> when they're
>> older and less active.
>
> Can go both ways. My cat was just slightly chubby most of her life; now
> that she's 13 I have some trouble keeping the weight ON her. Although,
> that's not so much age as diet. After 3 or so years on a wet diet, she's
> still convinced I'm torturing her and if she just asks enough, I'll relent
> and feed her dry again.
>
> My dedicated obligate carbivore :)
>
> jmc


I probably wouldn't harm her to give her a small handful of dry kibble once
in while. :-)

Kelly Greene[_2_]
February 26th 10, 02:19 PM
"Max" > wrote in message
...

Interestingly, my cats only get as much as they will eat in one
sitting, two times a day. I constantly watch them for weight issues,
and sadly, I cannot get them to a weight where they seem "slim".

Just cut back on the amount of wet food you're feeding them. "As much as
they will eat" is apparently a little too much. :-)

Bill Graham
February 26th 10, 10:51 PM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> B-K seldom eats anything but dry food, although I have been able to get
>> him to eat some roast chicken from time to time....He was thoroughly sick
>> of human food after I got him home from the Burger King parking
>> lot.....He is the one who hunts, so he supplements his dry food diet with
>> fresh kills now and then......
>
> Indoor-outdoor cats can supplement their diet with fresh "meat." They
> also get plenty of exercise to burn off any dry high-carb kibble. A
> housecat sitting around indoors nibbling all day on dry grain-filled
> kibble is as unnatural as can be. I've lost sight of what his argument
> is....

I forgot....B-K does like these little orange plastic cups that Whiskas or
someone like that puts out.....I think that what he likes about them is that
they are small, and he can dig the food out of the cracks with his claws
which makes him work at it a little bit.....B-K is very independent, and
likes to think he is providing for himself......

Bill Graham
February 26th 10, 10:54 PM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "jmc" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Suddenly, without warning, Kelly Greene exclaimed (2/23/2010 7:33 PM):
>>> That's all you can do. It's more than many other people do. :) Our
>>> two, here since
>>> last Nov 9th, are both slender. But who knows what the future will
>>> bring when they're
>>> older and less active.
>>
>> Can go both ways. My cat was just slightly chubby most of her life; now
>> that she's 13 I have some trouble keeping the weight ON her. Although,
>> that's not so much age as diet. After 3 or so years on a wet diet, she's
>> still convinced I'm torturing her and if she just asks enough, I'll
>> relent and feed her dry again.
>>
>> My dedicated obligate carbivore :)
>>
>> jmc
>
>
> I probably wouldn't harm her to give her a small handful of dry kibble
> once in while. :-)
Yes. Anything that they like, but you don't give them very much of, makes a
good "treat", you can use for a reward when they do something you approve
of.

jmc
February 27th 10, 12:51 AM
Suddenly, without warning, Kelly Greene exclaimed (2/26/2010 8:14 AM):
>
> "jmc" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Suddenly, without warning, Kelly Greene exclaimed (2/23/2010 7:33 PM):
>>> That's all you can do. It's more than many other people do. :) Our
>>> two, here since
>>> last Nov 9th, are both slender. But who knows what the future will
>>> bring when they're
>>> older and less active.
>>
>> Can go both ways. My cat was just slightly chubby most of her life;
>> now that she's 13 I have some trouble keeping the weight ON her.
>> Although, that's not so much age as diet. After 3 or so years on a
>> wet diet, she's still convinced I'm torturing her and if she just asks
>> enough, I'll relent and feed her dry again.
>>
>> My dedicated obligate carbivore :)
>>
>> jmc
>
>
> I probably wouldn't harm her to give her a small handful of dry kibble
> once in while. :-)

Yea, I thought so, but you know what happens? she gets some kibble
*once* and stops eating the wet stuff altogether in hopes she'll get
more dry. We've been through this cycle a couple of times.

The most I can do is give her a couple of pieces of dry snackfoods
(Greenies, usually. Kitty Crack). Even then, every time I get near
where it's kept, she's Right There wanting some. I've taken to
spreading the pieces around the house, making her work for them, but she
doesn't seem to mind that - they're all gone by morning :)

Silly thing. I wonder if she has dreams of me giving her huge bowls of
dry food?

jmc

Phil P.
March 2nd 10, 07:02 AM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> >> > "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> >> You could tell us where you saw cats eating constantly and all day
> > long.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I didn't say cats eat 'constantly' all day long, now did I? I said
"in
> >> > nature cats *do* eat all day long". Followed by "Cats typically eat
10
> > to
> >> > 20
> >> > small meals throughout the day and night." ****10-20 smalls a day
> > breaks
> >> > down
> >> > to about 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 hours between meals. **** That is not
> > 'constantly'
> >> > but
> >> > it *is* "all day long". That is the natural feeding behavior of cats
> >> > in
> >> > the
> >> > wild and from where the grazing feeding behavior in house cats
evolved.
> >>
> >> OK. But that's not what I observed in two rural areas of TN and one in
> >> NY
> >> State.
> >
> > Perhaps you need to observe a little closer.
>
> I did. I spent most of my time outdoors in the warm weather.


Perhaps you should have watched the natural feeding behavior of cats in the
wild.


>
> >> > Here's a brief excerpt from a study by John Bradshaw- the feline
> >> > biologist,
> >> > published in the Journal of Nutrition a few years ago:
> >>
> >> > "That they are descended from a specialist predator is readily
apparent
> >> > from
> >> > their dentition, which is dominated by large canines, used to sever
the
> >> > neck
> >> > vertebrae of mammalian prey, and carnassials for shearing flesh from
> > bone;
> >> > the incisors and molars are relatively small. Unlike wolves, they are
> >> > exclusively solitary hunters, and therefore usually take prey with
much
> >> > lower body-mass than their own, necessitating several kills per day.
> > This
> >> > is
> >> > reflected in the ad libitum meal-patterning of
> >> > domestic cats, which take several small meals, spread throughout the
24
> > h
> >> > of
> >> > the day"
> >>
> >> YES! Several small meals a day. Not a small meal every 1 1/2 to 2 1/2
> >> hours as you mentioned above (see **** above).
> >
> >
> > 10 to 20 small meals over a 24 hour period averages out to about 1 1/2
to
> > 2
> > 1/2 hours, more or less, between meals. Do the math.
>
> Do what math? We're discussing cats, not "math."


If the math confounds you, I'll make it a little easier for you: If cats
eat 10 to 20 small meals over a 24 hour period, how often do they eat?


You seem to have watched
> a colony where you live

Yep that's it.... How did you know? lol Actually, I know a guy who knows a
guy who saw a feral colony across the highway once as he was driving by.



and are convinced all cats are out hunting every 1
> 1/2 to 2 1/2 hours a day. That's not what I witnessed with several
colonies
> here in TN.


Okey dokey. If you were watching a managed colony that was feed twice a
day, you weren't observing the natural feeding behavior of cats.


Do you know what this saying means: "The frog at the bottom of the well
thinks the whole sky is only 3 feet wide"?


>
> > Or nibbling constantly all
> >> day on dry kibble. Worse if it contains filler grains like corn.
> >
> >
> > I was discussing the natural feeding behavior of cats. That's it for
me.
> >
> > If you want to cite websites that discuss dry verses wet cat food, read
> > mine. It was the first factual discussion and the best, and from where
> > all
> > the other sites obtained their references.
>
> I don't see what that has to do with free feeding grain filled dry foods.
I
> know which is better = their natural diet - meat!


But you obviously don't know what their natural feeding behavior is!

I wasn't talking about free feeding dry food - you were. I was discussing
the natural feeding behavior of cats. You convoluted the discussion into
another dry vs wet debate.. as you always do.


Do you realize you look ridiculous disputing a fact that has been
well-studied and documented for decades?


I said trying to have a discussion with you would be like trying to nail
Jello to the ceiling-- It looks like I was right.


>
> > Dry Food vs Canned Food. Which is really better?
> >
> >
http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm#Dry_Food_vs_Canned_Food.__Whi ch_is_reall
> >
> >
>

Phil P.
March 4th 10, 07:53 AM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
> >> I did. I spent most of my time outdoors in the warm weather.
> >
> >
> > Perhaps you should have watched the natural feeding behavior of cats in
> > the
> > wild.
>
> They were wild. No one was feeding them.
>
>
> >>
> >> Do what math? We're discussing cats, not "math."
> >
> >
> > If the math confounds you, I'll make it a little easier for you: If
cats
> > eat 10 to 20 small meals over a 24 hour period, how often do they eat?
>
> I never saw a cat out hunting 20 hours a day. Nothing confounding about
it.


I said "cats eat 10 to 20 small meals over a 24 hour period". That is not
the same as cats hunting 20 hours a day. Don't convolute my statements
...Stick to facts and don't add what was not written...


>
> >
> >
> > You seem to have watched
> >> a colony where you live
> >
> > Yep that's it.... How did you know? lol Actually, I know a guy who
knows
> > a
> > guy who saw a feral colony across the highway once as he was driving by.
>
> Yep, that it here where I live also.


I was being facetious. Actually, we manage 32 colonies totalling about 500
cats. We have TNR programs in 4 counties in 2 states.



Three feral colonies no one fed or
> cared about and another is starting up again. Only this time I'm feeding
> them.

If you're feeding the colony, I hope you plan to spay & neuter all of them.


>They do not hunt 10 to 20 hours a day for 10 to 20 small meals a day.


From where are you getting this "hunting 10- 20 hours a day"??? You're
trying to disprove a phrase *you* conjured up. Once again, I said "cats eat
10 to 20 small *meals* over a 24 hour period". Not "cats hunt 10 to 20
hours a day". You seem to have a serious reading comprehension problem.
Don't convolute my statements ..Stick to facts and don't add what was not
written...


> > and are convinced all cats are out hunting every 1
> >> 1/2 to 2 1/2 hours a day. That's not what I witnessed with several
> > colonies
> >> here in TN.
> >
> >
> > Okey dokey. If you were watching a managed colony that was feed twice a
> > day, you weren't observing the natural feeding behavior of cats.
>
> Who said it was a "managed" colony fed twice a day? Stick to facts and
> don't add what was not written.


I said "*if* you were watching a managed colony". You didn't say if the
colony was managed or not. You seem to have a problem understanding what you
read.



These were cats that were born and died in
> abandoned barns/outbuildings. No one fed them. No one even went near the
> places.


....but you know their feeding pattern over a 24 hour period.....? Okey
dokey. lol

>
>
> > Do you know what this saying means: "The frog at the bottom of the well
> > thinks the whole sky is only 3 feet wide"?
>
> I know what I saw with these colonies. And again you're WRONG. They
didn't
> only eat small prey endlessly and hunt continuously 10 to 20 hours a day,


I'm just curious, are you dyslexic? You keep saying "hunt continuously 10
to 20 hours a day". I said "cats eat 10 to 20 small meals over a 24 hour
period." You're confusing *meals* with *hours*. Do you make the same
mistake at restaurants? "I'll have a well done hour with a side order of
minutes". lol



> they were often seen dragging rabbits and squirrels and young turkeys into
> the brush. They drag then between their front legs as lions do.
>
> >> > If you want to cite websites that discuss dry verses wet cat food,
read
> >> > mine. It was the first factual discussion and the best, and from
where
> >> > all
> >> > the other sites obtained their references.
>
> ALL the other sites? ALL of them? :-D


That's right.


>
> >>
> >> I don't see what that has to do with free feeding grain filled dry
foods.
> > I
> >> know which is better = their natural diet - meat!
> >
> >
> > But you obviously don't know what their natural feeding behavior is!
>
> Of course I do. I lived right by 2 wild colonies here in the midstate.
> They didn't eat small prey endlessly and hunt continuously 10 to 20 hours
a
> day.


"hunt continuously 10 to 20 hours a day." Again you said it! lol! Try
reading a little slower- you might not miss so many words and actually
understand what's being said. lol


None of them did. Mothers with kittens to feed were seen out hunting
> more than the others. That was about all.
>
> If cats needed 10 to 20 meals a day, they wouldn't thrive on the 2 or 3
> meals most people who feed wet/raw foods feed them. They would turn into
> skeletons, sicken and die. My 2 are thriving and growing beautifully on 3
> meals a day.

You're joking, aren't you? If you're not, you have a lot to learn about
feline nutrition. A can of cat food contains between 180 and 200 kcals. A
neutered, indoor cat has a daily energy requirement (DER) of about 18-20
kcals/lb. Since you're not too good with math, that translates into about
160-180 kcals/day for a 9 lb. cat or about 1, 5.5 oz can or 2, 3 oz. cans of
cat food a day. That's why your cats survive on 3 meals a day.

An average mouse contains about 30 kcals, young mice even less. Insects and
other small prey cats eat contain much, much, less. Cats in nature eat to
meet their DER. That is why cats in nature eat 10 to 20 small meals over a
24 hour period. Intact, feral cats have a much higher DER than neutered
cats- 240-300 kcals/day.





But then the discussion was free-feeding HOUSE CATS, not the
> feeding behavior of assorted wild colonies.


We sure are, Einstein! lol! *You* said "Soon he'll learn he has to eat
everything at one time as cats do in nature and not nibble all day long." .
I replied: "Ah- but in nature cats *do* eat all day long:". That's what got
me into this. Can't you remember what you're discussing? lol



>
> >
> > I wasn't talking about free feeding dry food - you were. I was
discussing
> > the natural feeding behavior of cats. You convoluted the discussion into
> > another dry vs wet debate.. as you always do.
> >
> >
> > Do you realize you look ridiculous disputing a fact that has been
> > well-studied and documented for decades?
>
> To you, anyone who disagrees with you looks like a fool.


That's because unlike you, I don't get into arguments over topics I know
nothing about.


Now where are the
> studies proving cats spend 10 to 20 hours a day hunting small prey?


I've already provided highly credible references- I'm not going to do any
more of your homework for you. Do your own homework, you might learn
something and realize that you don't know as much about cats as you think
you do.

John Doe
March 4th 10, 08:08 AM
"Phil P." > wrote:

> I said "cats eat 10 to 20 small meals over a 24 hour period".
> That is not the same as cats hunting 20 hours a day.

My most recent inductee was trying to survive on bugs in the area
here. He might have been hunting 20 hours a day...

> If you're feeding the colony, I hope you plan to spay & neuter
> all of them.

I think she does not realize the harm in feeding cats that then
have babies who mostly die horrible deaths.

Bill Graham
March 4th 10, 10:52 AM
"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
> "Phil P." > wrote:
>
>> I said "cats eat 10 to 20 small meals over a 24 hour period".
>> That is not the same as cats hunting 20 hours a day.
>
> My most recent inductee was trying to survive on bugs in the area
> here. He might have been hunting 20 hours a day...
>
>> If you're feeding the colony, I hope you plan to spay & neuter
>> all of them.
>
> I think she does not realize the harm in feeding cats that then
> have babies who mostly die horrible deaths.

Hey.....Don't lay the blame for that on her. For millions of years cats and
many other animals have died horrible deaths.....Since long before Humans
walked the earth. Put the blame for that where it belongs.....Directly on
the shoulders of your God or Gods. (or whatever mythical creature you
believe started this universe)

Phil P.
March 5th 10, 10:12 AM
"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John Doe" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Phil P." > wrote:
> >
> >> I said "cats eat 10 to 20 small meals over a 24 hour period".
> >> That is not the same as cats hunting 20 hours a day.
> >
> > My most recent inductee was trying to survive on bugs in the area
> > here. He might have been hunting 20 hours a day...
> >
> >> If you're feeding the colony, I hope you plan to spay & neuter
> >> all of them.
> >
> > I think she does not realize the harm in feeding cats that then
> > have babies who mostly die horrible deaths.
>
> Hey.....Don't lay the blame for that on her. For millions of years cats
and
> many other animals have died horrible deaths.....Since long before Humans
> walked the earth.

Just because animals have died horrible deaths long before humans walked the
earth, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to prevent as much suffering and
death as possible whenever we can.


> Put the blame for that where it belongs.....


If an individual perpetuates or contributes to the suffering and death of
animals the blame falls directly on them.


Directly on
> the shoulders of your God or Gods. (or whatever mythical creature you
> believe started this universe)

You don't have to believe in a god or gods to have compassion and sympathy
for animals.

Phil P.
March 5th 10, 10:13 AM
"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
> "Phil P." > wrote:
>
> > I said "cats eat 10 to 20 small meals over a 24 hour period".
> > That is not the same as cats hunting 20 hours a day.
>
> My most recent inductee was trying to survive on bugs in the area
> here. He might have been hunting 20 hours a day...


If his diet was mostly bugs-he would need to eat many times a day. The
number of meals a cat needs to eat depends on the caloric content of the
meals. The lower the caloric content of the meals the more meals the cat
needs to eat.



>
> > If you're feeding the colony, I hope you plan to spay & neuter
> > all of them.
>
> I think she does not realize the harm in feeding cats that then
> have babies who mostly die horrible deaths.


Probably not.

Mark Earnest
March 7th 10, 08:43 AM
"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John Doe" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Phil P." > wrote:
>>
>>> I said "cats eat 10 to 20 small meals over a 24 hour period".
>>> That is not the same as cats hunting 20 hours a day.
>>
>> My most recent inductee was trying to survive on bugs in the area
>> here. He might have been hunting 20 hours a day...
>>
>>> If you're feeding the colony, I hope you plan to spay & neuter
>>> all of them.
>>
>> I think she does not realize the harm in feeding cats that then
>> have babies who mostly die horrible deaths.
>
> Hey.....Don't lay the blame for that on her. For millions of years cats
> and many other animals have died horrible deaths.....Since long before
> Humans walked the earth. Put the blame for that where it
> belongs.....Directly on the shoulders of your God or Gods. (or whatever
> mythical creature you believe started this universe)

Don't blame the gods of olympus or whatever you're talking about either.
Life and death are just part of the natural order.
If the cat lived at all, it was one lucky (and blessed) cat.

jmc
March 7th 10, 02:55 PM
Suddenly, without warning, Kelly Greene exclaimed (3/7/2010 12:15 AM):
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> I said "cats eat 10 to 20 small meals over a 24 hour period". That is
>> not
>> the same as cats hunting 20 hours a day. Don't convolute my statements
>> ..Stick to facts and don't add what was not written...
>>
>
> If they're not hunting - where the hell are they getting 10 to 20 small
> meals a day? The mice and birds aren't coming to them! If this whole
> thing is about you wanting to feed your cats dry kibble.... don't
> bother. Just feed them whatever you want and ignore anyone who may
> disagree.
>
>> I've already provided highly credible references- I'm not going to do any
>> more of your homework for you. Do your own homework, you might learn
>> something and realize that you don't know as much about cats as you think
>> you do.
>
> There is nothing in what you provided showing cats must have a full bowl
> of kibble in front of them 24/7.
>
> End of conversation.

I think you got things misconstrued somewhere. I don't believe Phil P.
has *ever* suggested a cat get kibble. Years ago, he's one of the folks
that helped me get Meep the "carbivore" on wet food, to combat her cystitis.

jmc

Bill Graham
March 8th 10, 07:44 AM
"Mark Earnest" > wrote in message
netamerica...
>
> "Bill Graham" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "John Doe" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Phil P." > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I said "cats eat 10 to 20 small meals over a 24 hour period".
>>>> That is not the same as cats hunting 20 hours a day.
>>>
>>> My most recent inductee was trying to survive on bugs in the area
>>> here. He might have been hunting 20 hours a day...
>>>
>>>> If you're feeding the colony, I hope you plan to spay & neuter
>>>> all of them.
>>>
>>> I think she does not realize the harm in feeding cats that then
>>> have babies who mostly die horrible deaths.
>>
>> Hey.....Don't lay the blame for that on her. For millions of years cats
>> and many other animals have died horrible deaths.....Since long before
>> Humans walked the earth. Put the blame for that where it
>> belongs.....Directly on the shoulders of your God or Gods. (or whatever
>> mythical creature you believe started this universe)
>
> Don't blame the gods of olympus or whatever you're talking about either.
> Life and death are just part of the natural order.
> If the cat lived at all, it was one lucky (and blessed) cat.
>
Yes, but it's the, "Natural order" that I like to complain about. (Even
though I can't do much about it)

Phil P.
March 8th 10, 02:57 PM
"Kelly Greene" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil P." > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > I said "cats eat 10 to 20 small meals over a 24 hour period". That is
not
> > the same as cats hunting 20 hours a day. Don't convolute my statements
> > ..Stick to facts and don't add what was not written...
> >
>
> If they're not hunting - where the hell are they getting 10 to 20 small
> meals a day?

Now you're implying I said cats don't hunt, which of course I did not.! lol!
Are you trying to be this funny or do you really have a problem
understanding what I'm saying? What part of "cats in the wild eat 10 to 20
small meals over a 24 hour period" don't you understand? Cats could
probably do well on 7 or 8 meals a day if adult mice are plentiful.



The mice and birds aren't coming to them! If this whole thing
> is about you wanting to feed your cats dry kibble....


Do you realize you're arguing with yourself? Where did I say I want to feed
my cats dry kibble? You made that up just like you made up I said cats hunt
10 20 hours a day, and cats don't hunt. You twist and covolute what's
actually being said and then you argue about it.



don't bother. Just
> feed them whatever you want and ignore anyone who may disagree.


Okey dokey.


>
> > I've already provided highly credible references- I'm not going to do
any
> > more of your homework for you. Do your own homework, you might learn
> > something and realize that you don't know as much about cats as you
think
> > you do.
>
> There is nothing in what you provided showing cats must have a full bowl
of
> kibble in front of them 24/7.
>
> End of conversation.


Oh no you don't! You're way too much fun to let go! lol

Phil P.
March 8th 10, 03:01 PM
"jmc" > wrote in message
...
> Suddenly, without warning, Kelly Greene exclaimed (3/7/2010 12:15 AM):
> >
> > "Phil P." > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >>
> >> I said "cats eat 10 to 20 small meals over a 24 hour period". That is
> >> not
> >> the same as cats hunting 20 hours a day. Don't convolute my statements
> >> ..Stick to facts and don't add what was not written...
> >>
> >
> > If they're not hunting - where the hell are they getting 10 to 20 small
> > meals a day? The mice and birds aren't coming to them! If this whole
> > thing is about you wanting to feed your cats dry kibble.... don't
> > bother. Just feed them whatever you want and ignore anyone who may
> > disagree.
> >
> >> I've already provided highly credible references- I'm not going to do
any
> >> more of your homework for you. Do your own homework, you might learn
> >> something and realize that you don't know as much about cats as you
think
> >> you do.
> >
> > There is nothing in what you provided showing cats must have a full bowl
> > of kibble in front of them 24/7.
> >
> > End of conversation.
>
> I think you got things misconstrued somewhere.


"Somewhere"? How about everywhere? She didn't get anything I said right.


I don't believe Phil P.
> has *ever* suggested a cat get kibble.

I wonder from where she got that? lol


Years ago, he's one of the folks
> that helped me get Meep the "carbivore" on wet food, to combat her
cystitis.
>
> jmc

How's Meep doing?

Phil

jmc
March 10th 10, 03:03 AM
Suddenly, without warning, Phil P. exclaimed (3/8/2010 9:01 AM):
> "jmc" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Suddenly, without warning, Kelly Greene exclaimed (3/7/2010 12:15 AM):
>>> "Phil P." > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> I said "cats eat 10 to 20 small meals over a 24 hour period". That is
>>>> not
>>>> the same as cats hunting 20 hours a day. Don't convolute my statements
>>>> ..Stick to facts and don't add what was not written...
>>>>
>>> If they're not hunting - where the hell are they getting 10 to 20 small
>>> meals a day? The mice and birds aren't coming to them! If this whole
>>> thing is about you wanting to feed your cats dry kibble.... don't
>>> bother. Just feed them whatever you want and ignore anyone who may
>>> disagree.
>>>
>>>> I've already provided highly credible references- I'm not going to do
> any
>>>> more of your homework for you. Do your own homework, you might learn
>>>> something and realize that you don't know as much about cats as you
> think
>>>> you do.
>>> There is nothing in what you provided showing cats must have a full bowl
>>> of kibble in front of them 24/7.
>>>
>>> End of conversation.
>> I think you got things misconstrued somewhere.
>
>
> "Somewhere"? How about everywhere? She didn't get anything I said right.
>
>
> I don't believe Phil P.
>> has *ever* suggested a cat get kibble.
>
> I wonder from where she got that? lol
>
>
> Years ago, he's one of the folks
>> that helped me get Meep the "carbivore" on wet food, to combat her
> cystitis.
>> jmc
>
> How's Meep doing?
>
> Phil
>
>

Very well, thanks for asking. Had one cystitis attack when I tried to
add some dry kibble back in (she never gives up asking), but is back on
100% wet food. She's a little thinner than I like, and I haven't been
able to figure out how to get more weight on her without adding dry back
into her diet. She's never happy about the wet, and her preferences
sometimes seem to change daily - sometimes she'll clean up a particular
brand and leave a clean bowl, and other times she won't touch it.

I'm thinking of asking the vet if it's now time to try pepcid - we
talked about it before but the result was kind of inconclusive. This
on-again-off-again food choice makes me wonder if she's still having
nausea issues, even though I'm not catching her gulping or licking her
lips as much.

jmc

jmc
March 10th 10, 03:03 AM
Suddenly, without warning, Kelly Greene exclaimed (3/9/2010 6:13 PM):
>
> "jmc" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> I think you got things misconstrued somewhere. I don't believe Phil
>> P. has *ever* suggested a cat get kibble. Years ago, he's one of the
>> folks that helped me get Meep the "carbivore" on wet food, to combat
>> her cystitis.
>>
>> jmc
>
> It's been going on so long I've lost sight of what the disagreement was
> over. :-D

I kind of noticed that. :)

jmc

John Doe
April 6th 10, 06:40 AM
"Bill Graham" <weg9 comcast.net> wrote:

> "John Doe" <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote
>> "Phil P." <phil maxshouse.com> wrote:

>>> I said "cats eat 10 to 20 small meals over a 24 hour period".
>>> That is not the same as cats hunting 20 hours a day.
>>
>> My most recent inductee was trying to survive on bugs in the
>> area here.

What a great cat. I think something about living in the
not-so-great outdoors can make a cat very timid. And if they have
not reached the point of schizophrenia (I suppose that is what
certain trauma can lead to if they survive long enough out there),
they make great pets.

>>> If you're feeding the colony, I hope you plan to spay & neuter
>>> all of them.
>>
>> I think she does not realize the harm in feeding cats that then
>> have babies who mostly die horrible deaths.
>
> Hey.....Don't lay the blame for that on her. For millions of
> years cats and many other animals have died horrible
> deaths.....Since long before Humans walked the earth.

Were you feeding them?

> Put the blame for that where it belongs.....Directly on the
> shoulders of your God or Gods. (or whatever mythical creature
> you believe started this universe)

That is some strange logic.

I put the blame for strays on the people who cause it to happen,
where it belongs.

I understand what you are saying. The only thing that matters (to
you) is that you have company when going to and fro, they are your
welcoming party. You just do not give a **** about all of the
kittens you help produce for the slaughter. And then there are the
very few kittens who survive and end up traumatized by life in the
not-so-great outdoors. You help generate a population in a living
hell. That is no better, maybe worse, than the people who abandon
them in the first place.
--

























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> Subject: Re: Dry and wet -- one cat's experience
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cshenk
April 8th 10, 01:53 AM
"John Doe" wrote

> I understand what you are saying. The only thing that matters (to
> you) is that you have company when going to and fro, they are your
> welcoming party. You just do not give a **** about all of the
> kittens you help produce for the slaughter. And then there are the
> very few kittens who survive and end up traumatized by life in the
> not-so-great outdoors. You help generate a population in a living
> hell. That is no better, maybe worse, than the people who abandon
> them in the first place.

There may be a bit more to the picture though. I prefer to not judge.

I did not then nor now respect a long ago roomate because she'd 'adopt'
outdoor kitties and never do anything but feed them. She 'thought' she was
doing great good. I thought she'd have done better if she had at least the
females spayed (or some of them).

I think you came off a little too strong here to get the actual *message*
you intended over. The OP probably kill filed you right away. Blaming a
person who feeds strays, for all the ills of the world, just doesnt work.

Do you instead advocate no one ever feed a stray? That unintentionally is
the actual message you delivered. It may not have been INTENDED to come
over that way, but it is in gestalt, what you said.

John Doe
July 19th 10, 06:29 AM
"cshenk" > wrote:

> "John Doe" wrote
>
>> I understand what you are saying. The only thing that matters
>> (to you) is that you have company when going to and fro, they
>> are your welcoming party. You just do not give a **** about all
>> of the kittens you help produce for the slaughter. And then
>> there are the very few kittens who survive and end up
>> traumatized by life in the not-so-great outdoors. You help
>> generate a population in a living hell. That is no better,
>> maybe worse, than the people who abandon them in the first
>> place.
>
> There may be a bit more to the picture though. I prefer to not
> judge.

There is in fact more to the picture, that is the problem. When
you feed a stray cat without having it fixed or taking it inside,
you help propagate more strays.

> I did not then nor now respect a long ago roomate because she'd
> 'adopt' outdoor kitties and never do anything but feed them. She
> 'thought' she was doing great good.

People who do that just like the attention it gets them.

> I thought she'd have done better if she had at least the females
> spayed (or some of them).

> Blaming a person who feeds strays, for all the ills of the
> world, just doesnt work.

That is called a "straw man".

> Do you instead advocate no one ever feed a stray?

If you can avoid it, Yes... Contrary to what movies might suggest,
dying of starvation is not the worst thing that can happen (in
reality, the idea that people typically turn to cannibalism when
starving sounds silly to me, some people intentionally starve
themselves).

Whenever I see a cat or other domesticated/pet animal outside that
I cannot take proper care of, instead I put that energy into
taking better care of the strays I already have.
--

















> That unintentionally is
> the actual message you delivered. It may not have been INTENDED to come
> over that way, but it is in gestalt, what you said.
>
>