"Phil P." wrote in message ...
"Joe Pitt" wrote in message
. ..
I attended a presentation about stopping the killing of cats (and dogs) in
animal control facilities. He emphasised that you euthanize an animal that
is SICK. What is happening in shelters all over is they are KILLING
perfectly fine animals because they are unwanted, often due to the failure
to spay and neuter their parents. The general public sees 'euthanized' and
it softens what is happening in their minds.

I see postings that say you adopted the day before the animal was due to
be
euthanized. Tell people you adopted just before the animal was due to be
KILLED.

It may seem a small thing, but when you talk to people it may help their
awareness of the problem.

Maybe if everyone used the correct terms that describes exactly what it is,
more people would be outraged and sickened enough to force legislation to
eliminate it -- like mandatory neuter before adoption or sale (health
permiting) and subsidize vets or give them a tax deduction for neutering all
animals in their care regardless of the owners' consent or ability to pay.

If you talk about tax deduction, that means either cut money from some
other program to pay for this proposed program or increase taxes. That
would be fine if you can only increase taxes for those who really
care. My suggestion is to establish a fund or charity. Then those who
can't stand killing of cats can give to that charity. It would be nice
also if said charity is one of the charities listed on tax forms.

"Kalyahna" wrote in message ...

Yes, a large part of it has to do with the lack of spaying and neutering.
But damned near as much of it has to do with irresponsible people who dump
their pets on overcrowded shelters for trivial reasons (moving, new baby,
too big, no time, etc).

I disagree that having a new baby is a trivial thing. For cat lover
zealots here who don't have human children, do you treat having a new
kitty a trivial thing?

Ray Ban wrote in om on 19
Dec 2003:

My suggestion is to establish a fund or charity. Then those who
can't stand killing of cats can give to that charity. It would be nice
also if said charity is one of the charities listed on tax forms.



Many animal welfare charities are tax deductable. HS and most
local SPCA donations are. There is a huge one, Petsmart Charities. They
do amazing things for rescue groups. Grants, etc. Whenever you see the
fundraiser at the local Petsmart store asking for a couple of dollars, this
is where most of it goes to. :) From my research on them, they are
especially interested spay/neuter programs. When I go to stock up on the
stuff I can only get at Petsmart, I add a few dollars to my total bill for
their charities. Spay/neuter programs are directly related to how many
cats are killed by animal control programs.

--
Cheryl

"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I
can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do."
- Helen Keller

Cheryl wrote in on 19 Dec 2003:

Spay/neuter programs are directly related to how many
cats are killed by animal control programs.


Oh, and as an afterthought. Grants from charities such as Petsmart
Charities and others should be praised for their part in low cost
spay/neuter events hosted by local SPCA and other rescue groups. Donations
directly to them go a long way, but grants from these companies literally
pay the bills. Want to know who the other biggies are? Google "animal
welfare grant". Add "spay neuter" for more.

--
Cheryl

"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I
can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do."
- Helen Keller

I disagree that having a new baby is a trivial thing. For cat lover
zealots here who don't have human children, do you treat having a new
kitty a trivial thing?

I don't think people (most people anyway) are saying that having a new
baby is a trivial thing. What they are saying is that using that as an
excuse to abandon their responsbility to a cat, especially an older
one that will gave extreme difficulty finding a new home, is lame. It
is quite possible, as millions of families will attest, to have both a
cat and a child simmultaneously. It just takes a little bit of thought
about how to accomodate everyone's needs. But a lot of people just
don't want to make that little bit of effort. That is thoughtless.
Especially when, as is often true, the life or death of a living being
is concerned.

"Ray Ban" wrote in message
om...
(Tracy) wrote in message
. com...

I disagree that having a new baby is a trivial thing. For cat lover
zealots here who don't have human children, do you treat having a new
kitty a trivial thing?

I don't think people (most people anyway) are saying that having a new
baby is a trivial thing. What they are saying is that using that as an
excuse to abandon their responsbility to a cat, especially an older
one that will gave extreme difficulty finding a new home, is lame. It
is quite possible, as millions of families will attest, to have both a
cat and a child simmultaneously. It just takes a little bit of thought
about how to accomodate everyone's needs. But a lot of people just
don't want to make that little bit of effort. That is thoughtless.
Especially when, as is often true, the life or death of a living being
is concerned.

Well, it's not that simple. Suppose I have a cat. Now a baby arrives.
I can't afford to feed and care for both. Who should go? In some
cases, it takes much more than just a little bit of thought and a
little bit of effort. Of course, zealots will make you believe that
everytime a cat is given up over a baby, that it could just have taken
a little bit of this and a little bit of that to keep the cat. If the
cat is killed/murdered in the shelter, then so be it. Thousands,
perhaps millions of animals are killed everyday anyway, cats included.
Get real.

Reality bites :-) Just because something is "real" doesn't make it ideal...
and certainly doesn't mean it can't change. Yes, thousands of animals
are killed every day ...unnecessarily. As a civilized people there are
things we can do to change that. We can spay and neuter our pets
unless we are conscientious breeders. We can honor our commitments
to our pets by providing a home for the life of the animal. And if for
some reason we can not live up to that commitment we can take it upon
ourselves to find it another loving home.
I know people live on the edge but I shudder to think about someone
who would have to choose between feeding a new baby and feeding
a cat. Sounds like someone who isn't going to be able to afford to take
care of the child properly. Cats are not expensive to feed (unless you have
9 ) BTW...do you distinguish between a "zealot" and an animal lover?
I wouldn't swerve into a park bench full of kids to avoid hitting a cat..but
I would mourn hitting that cat as if it were a living being...ohh
wait...that's
right, it is. There is nothing wrong in caring for life even if that life
is just
a cats.

AG

Well, it's not that simple. Suppose I have a cat. Now a baby arrives.
I can't afford to feed and care for both.

Wow. Average cost of feeding one cat is maybe $15 a week. You telling
me that you're gonna bring a human life into this world and try to
take care of it for 18 years when you can't spare bus fare for a week?

In some cases, it takes much more than just a little bit of thought and a
little bit of effort.

It takes a little bit of thought and a little bit of effort to take
care of both human children and cats. You shouldn't do either if
you're not going to put any thought or effort into it.

"Agua Girl" wrote in message t...
"Ray Ban" wrote in message
om...
(Tracy) wrote in message
. com...

I disagree that having a new baby is a trivial thing. For cat lover
zealots here who don't have human children, do you treat having a new
kitty a trivial thing?

I don't think people (most people anyway) are saying that having a new
baby is a trivial thing. What they are saying is that using that as an
excuse to abandon their responsbility to a cat, especially an older
one that will gave extreme difficulty finding a new home, is lame. It
is quite possible, as millions of families will attest, to have both a
cat and a child simmultaneously. It just takes a little bit of thought
about how to accomodate everyone's needs. But a lot of people just
don't want to make that little bit of effort. That is thoughtless.
Especially when, as is often true, the life or death of a living being
is concerned.

Well, it's not that simple. Suppose I have a cat. Now a baby arrives.
I can't afford to feed and care for both. Who should go? In some
cases, it takes much more than just a little bit of thought and a
little bit of effort. Of course, zealots will make you believe that
everytime a cat is given up over a baby, that it could just have taken
a little bit of this and a little bit of that to keep the cat. If the
cat is killed/murdered in the shelter, then so be it. Thousands,
perhaps millions of animals are killed everyday anyway, cats included.
Get real.

Reality bites :-) Just because something is "real" doesn't make it ideal...
and certainly doesn't mean it can't change. Yes, thousands of animals
are killed every day ...unnecessarily. As a civilized people there are
things we can do to change that. We can spay and neuter our pets
unless we are conscientious breeders. We can honor our commitments
to our pets by providing a home for the life of the animal. And if for
some reason we can not live up to that commitment we can take it upon
ourselves to find it another loving home.
I know people live on the edge but I shudder to think about someone
who would have to choose between feeding a new baby and feeding
a cat. Sounds like someone who isn't going to be able to afford to take
care of the child properly. Cats are not expensive to feed (unless you have
9 ) BTW...do you distinguish between a "zealot" and an animal lover?
I wouldn't swerve into a park bench full of kids to avoid hitting a cat..but
I would mourn hitting that cat as if it were a living being...ohh
wait...that's
right, it is. There is nothing wrong in caring for life even if that life
is just
a cats.

AG

Everything is cheap or expensive, depending on your situation. Let's
see: a can of high quality cat food is about 80-90 cents where I live.
Twice a day that's $1.70 on the average -- around $50/month. Just for
food. Treats are extra. Some cats have ongoing problems so they need
prescriptions. Toys. Vet visits. It could add up. You could easily
spend $100/month average on a single cat. I'm sure a lot of people
spend more than that on their cats. For some people that's not cheap.
And you can minimize expenses by feeding your cat junk food (e.g.,
Friskies, 9-Lives), cut down on treats and vet visits, cut down on
medicine and just let it suffer a bit some days (anyway, they're good
at hiding pain).

Just deal with it. We don't live in an ideal world. We will alays
murder cats, dogs, cows, pigs, lamb, people, unborn human children
everyday. We will never be able to have all the money to pay vets so
they can alter each and every cat that have to be altered. In the end,
it's all about money. You can yap about it all day long if you want,
but without money, nothing is going to get done.

Everything is cheap or expensive, depending on your situation. Let's
see: a can of high quality cat food is about 80-90 cents where I live.
Twice a day that's $1.70 on the average -- around $50/month. Just for
food. Treats are extra. Some cats have ongoing problems so they need
prescriptions. Toys. Vet visits. It could add up. You could easily
spend $100/month average on a single cat. I'm sure a lot of people
spend more than that on their cats. For some people that's not cheap.
And you can minimize expenses by feeding your cat junk food (e.g.,
Friskies, 9-Lives), cut down on treats and vet visits, cut down on
medicine and just let it suffer a bit some days (anyway, they're good
at hiding pain).


Let's see ... indeed. My take on it: If it's a question of abandoning
an older cat to a kill-shelter situation (and I volunteer at a no-kill
and frankly, if a cat is over a year and a half old, it generally will
take a month or more to find an adoptive home - some are there for
several months - it's only the kittens that are easily placed), then I
could care less if someone feeds it Friskies or 9-lives for it's
entire existence. Kids grow up on crap too - in poor families. Love is
more important than organic produce.

Treats? Sure it's nice, but it isn't necessary for existence.

Toys? After buying all sorts of contraptions, I now understand that my
two cats far prefer milk rings to anything else - and they're FREE.
And a wood shelf bolted by a window with an old sweater on it IS a cat
perch.

Vet visits? Low-cost vet clinics are very present in most communities
and most cats really don't require anything more than a few booster
shots from time to time. I suppose some cats do develop complicated
medical situations, but not most and not all of the time.

Of course, it's nice to coddle both cats and children if you can
afford to do it, but if you can't, love and caring and emotional
generosity go a long way.