Phil P. wrote:

"Brian Link" wrote in message
...

Also I'd be happy to hear

others' thoughts about adopting from a shelter vs adopting a purebred.



As long as you adopt the cat from a kill shelter - it doesn't matter because
you'll be saving a life and providing a companion for Tiger. If you plan to
buy a 'purebred', first, you might want to take a stroll down death row of
your local kill shelter and then see how those forsaken faces make you feel
about buying a cat from a breeder who probably has a waiting list of buyers
and can't churn out cats fast enough.

Why do you ask? Does something not seem right about buying a cat from a
breeder while millions of cats are killed every year because of the lack of
homes?



Perhaps we should apply this same line of thought with human beings...

There are thousands if not millions of kids around the world without
parents. Perhaps one should adopt a kid first rather than see other kids
go through the early years without the support and benefit of parents.

Once *all* the parentless kids have been adopted, only then should
couples consider having their own kids.

"Joe Canuck" wrote
Perhaps we should apply this same line of thought with human beings...

There are thousands if not millions of kids around the world without
parents. Perhaps one should adopt a kid first rather than see other kids
go through the early years without the support and benefit of parents.

Once *all* the parentless kids have been adopted, only then should couples
consider having their own kids.

BTDT with this argument. Not the same.

--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
"Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG

KellyH wrote:

"Joe Canuck" wrote

Perhaps we should apply this same line of thought with human beings...

There are thousands if not millions of kids around the world without
parents. Perhaps one should adopt a kid first rather than see other kids
go through the early years without the support and benefit of parents.

Once *all* the parentless kids have been adopted, only then should couples
consider having their own kids.


BTDT with this argument. Not the same.


Well, I think it is the same thing... just difference species. ;)

Why bring more kids into the world when there are already plenty who may
be wondering where there next meal is coming from?

Anyways, this is getting way off-topic.

Joe Canuck wrote:

Perhaps we should apply this same line of thought with human
beings...

There are thousands if not millions of kids around the world without
parents. Perhaps one should adopt a kid first rather than see other
kids
go through the early years without the support and benefit of
parents.

I agree whole-heartedly. Especially since non-renewable resources and
our ability to deal with output are dwindling.


Once *all* the parentless kids have been adopted, only then should
couples consider having their own kids.

I don't have any problem what-so-ever with that sentiment.

-L.

Joe Canuck wrote:

Well, I think it is the same thing... just difference species. ;)

Why bring more kids into the world when there are already plenty who
may
be wondering where there next meal is coming from?

I have asked myself that question for years. For some people, genetics
is important. For others, it's not. I don't really understand the
former. But I also think most people mindlessly breed without even
considering why - not to mention not ever considering adoption. That's
sad because adoption is one of the most beautiful, life-enriching
things one can do as a human being.

-L.

On 2005-03-27, Mary penned:

"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote :

You're asking a tough question here. For me, cats are cats regardless of
breed, so I have to put the question to myself in terms of dogs, where
variations are more significant to me. There are most certainly breeds of
dogs that I like much better than others.

I believe in the principle of generalization (kind of like the golden
rule): this is one way that Kant proposed to evaluate whether or not
something is moral. You simply pose yourself the question, if everyone
were to do what
I
am considering, would I find the world to be a better or a worse place?


Mo, surely you know that Kant's ethical proofs are entirely full of ****.
His metaphysics are more defensible IMO. But most people think they are too.
The principle of generalization is along the line of Aristotle's Doctrine of
the Mean. Okay in a survey course but entirely indefensible in terms of
proofs. Did you have these things as part of logic courses or Intro
philosophy?

Doesn't matter. Of all of the attempts to philosophize moral arguments,
this is the only one that's actually been useful to me in daily life.
And I actually have a minor in Philosophy, so while it's been a while, I
certainly have studied more than just a survey course. It has its
limitations, but asking yourself "What would happen if everyone acted as
I did?" is a very good start in figuring out whether what you're
thinking about doing is a good idea. I don't really care if it can be
logically proven. Logic proofs are fun and neat, but in the end they
always start from some assumption that can be argued, so even if there's
no flaw in the logic, the proof itself won't convince someone who
doesn't want to be convinced.

If you have a better rule of thumb, let me know. In the meantime, it
seems to me that this is exactly the reason that most of us choose
shelter animals over breeding; in the realization that if everyone did
this, breeders would go out of business and there would be fewer cats
euthanized. Otherwise, buying vs. adopting a single cat wouldn't matter one
whit in the grand scheme of things.

--
monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

"-L." wrote in message
oups.com...

Joe Canuck wrote:

Perhaps we should apply this same line of thought with human
beings...

There are thousands if not millions of kids around the world without
parents. Perhaps one should adopt a kid first rather than see other
kids
go through the early years without the support and benefit of
parents.

I agree whole-heartedly. Especially since non-renewable resources and
our ability to deal with output are dwindling.


Once *all* the parentless kids have been adopted, only then should
couples consider having their own kids.

I don't have any problem what-so-ever with that sentiment.

-L.

Thanks. Guess I'm just a mindless breeder.
You know I considered adoption vs. IVF very carefully. Adoption is not as
easy as people seem to think it is, like you just fill out a form and
someone hands you a child. It also costs thousands of dollars and the
process can be emotionally taxing. I admit, I freaked going over the
application. They want to know *everything* about you, and I do have some
things from my past that are not exactly flattering and I would rather that
no one knew about.
Whatever, I don't have to defend my choice.

--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
"Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG

KellyH wrote:

Thanks. Guess I'm just a mindless breeder.

No, you're not, based on your second sentence, below. I'm referring to
people who don't give a second-thought about having unprotected sex and
then say "ooops! I'm pregnant!" as if it is a surprise, despite the
fact that they don't have the means or maturity to raise a child.

You know I considered adoption vs. IVF very carefully. Adoption is
not as
easy as people seem to think it is, like you just fill out a form and

someone hands you a child. It also costs thousands of dollars and
the
process can be emotionally taxing.

As I well know. :) State adoption is inexpensive. In some states it's
free. Infant adoption is extremely expensive, mainly because it is
privatized.


I admit, I freaked going over the
application. They want to know *everything* about you, and I do have
some
things from my past that are not exactly flattering and I would
rather that
no one knew about.
Whatever, I don't have to defend my choice.

I don't know why you saw yourself in what I wrote, or thought I was
referring to you. You definitely do not fit the menatality of
"mindless breeder."

-L.

Monique Y. Mudama wrote:
In the meantime, it
seems to me that this is exactly the reason that most of us choose
shelter animals over breeding; in the realization that if everyone did
this, breeders would go out of business and there would be fewer cats
euthanized.

I never even considered a breeder. I simply can not imagine paying that
much money for an animal, when there are so many that need homes and are
given away practically for free. The thought process for me wasn't much
deeper than that. It was basically "Spend 50 bucks, save a life, have a
new fuzzy pal!"

Now, I have a purebred, but I still rescued him. Jasper, being purebred
siamese, probably cost someone a few bucks when he was a kitten, as
someone pointed out here. But when he was 1.5 years old, he ended up at
a shelter cuz the first of his old lady mommies died. Suddenly, Jasper
was just another shelter cat.

I agree with the sentiment that if you really want a purebreed, find one
thru a rescue organization. Don't support a breeder directly. I think at
the end of the day, you'll feel better about you. :)

just my humble 2 pesos,
pam

"-L." wrote
As I well know. :) State adoption is inexpensive. In some states it's
free. Infant adoption is extremely expensive, mainly because it is
privatized.


True, but it's not for everyone. It's pretty rare to get an infant through
the state, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you have to be certified foster
parents first.

I don't know why you saw yourself in what I wrote, or thought I was
referring to you. You definitely do not fit the menatality of
"mindless breeder."


Because you said (to paraphrase) "everyone should adopt and not
biologically create their own children". What if your IF treatments had
worked?
You know in the adoption groups the arguments go on and on. Like, if you
want to adopt an infant, that's wrong, you should be adopting an older
child. Why aren't you adopting a special needs child? Etc, etc.

If this round of IVF hadn't worked, we probably would be adopting. I felt
like, we had the opportunity to try it, so I should at least give it a shot.
I didn't want to wonder "what if?"
--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
"Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG