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declawing
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"Linda Terrell" wrote in message news:epxRkhlUwRo0-pn2- Have several scratching posts around -- the kind with the rope works best. Yeah, they work really well. And kitty's claws will peel off regularly (the old outer surface just sorta moulds as the younger tissue grows and pushes out from underneath) when she uses the scratching posts, so clipping isn't usually a problem when the kitty has, and regularly uses, a suitable scratching post. Devlin Perth, Australia |
I am not a cat lover but their would have to be some bloody good reason to make me to maltreat a it. Doesn't make sense. It should have said: I am not a cat lover but there would have to be a bloody good reason to make me maltreat it. Sorry Bill |
She said she *clips* their claws. You know, trims them - clips off the needle-sharp points. Cathy -- Cathy You are absolutely correct. Linda -SORRY!!!!!!!!!! Off like a bull at a gate. Must stop and think. My only feeble excuse is that I do tend to see red when I come across de-clawing. Again sorry. Okay the claws can be out but not in an attack mode. They are still safe. I think that kneading is used by kittens to encourage the mother to turn on the taps for feeding. Perhaps it's a submissive signal when older? Bill |
D. Stephen Heersink wrote:
I've always declawed my cats because they are always indoors and if I don't, they will claw the furniture and me. Since I have expensive furniture and don't want scars on me, I've found the declawing a cat is the best way to accomplish our mutual goals. Some extremists think those of us who do such things are savages, but I don't care. I love my cats, and my cats love me, declawed and all. But of course, they are NEVER allowed out doors. Surely, you're not serious. |
Karen Chuplis wrote:
in article , D. Stephen Heersink at wrote on 8/10/03 3:45 PM: I've always declawed my cats because they are always indoors and if I don't, they will claw the furniture and me. Since I have expensive furniture and don't want scars on me, I've found the declawing a cat is the best way to accomplish our mutual goals. Some extremists think those of us who do such things are savages, but I don't care. I love my cats, and my cats love me, declawed and all. But of course, they are NEVER allowed out doors. Kind regards, ___________________ D. Stephen Heersink San Francisco I've had cats all my life. I do not have scars. My furniture is fine. Learn to train the cats. Or use Soft Paws. Ditto. There is NO excuse for declawing cats. A caring, compassionate person will make the comparitively small effort to learn how to train the cats and invest the couple months needed to do so. Scratching posts and sticky pawa are all you need, along with a small bnit of intlligence and some patience. Anything else is simply a lazy, arrogant cop out. If you feel your cats need declawing, find another pet. |
"Brandy Alexandre" wrote:
Gary wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: Cruel jerks like you always *assume* that cats can't be trained (or, you just don't want to invest the time in it), but, they can. You'll never convince anyone that way. Sure way to make people shut you out and not listen to your argument. Yeah, name-calling ALWAYS influences people. -- Brandy Alexandre® http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? What's the difference between "name calling" and accurate descriptive phrases? Gary -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- |
"Brandy Alexandre" wrote:
Gary wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: Cruel jerks like you always *assume* that cats can't be trained (or, you just don't want to invest the time in it), but, they can. You'll never convince anyone that way. Sure way to make people shut you out and not listen to your argument. Yeah, name-calling ALWAYS influences people. -- Brandy Alexandre® http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? What's the difference between "name calling" and accurate descriptive phrases? Gary -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- |
"Brandy Alexandre" wrote in message
... Good luck with that statement. This group is nothing but extremists who like to flame away people who are not of like mind or who they cannot convert. I'm not an extremist, but the fact is, most countries have banned declawing for a reason, and many vets have expressed their professional opinion that declawing is harmful to a cat, that it can cause a lot of pain, and often psychological and/or behavior problems. I don't see why they would do this if it was just a matter of personal preference. Considering how rarely governments consider animal rights, the fact that so many have considered declawing harmful enough to ban it sends a very strong message, and there are certainly a number of fact-laden articles all over the 'Net (many by vets) supporting that viewpoint. There is also a great deal of anecdotal evidence regarding the aforementioned psychological and behavior problems, much of it from shelters dealing with the fallout of this proceedure. That is the reason it's very difficult for most people here not to get angry, extreme or resort to name calling when they hear of people trying to justify the proceedure; it is unneccessary, and there is a lot of evidence which supports the idea that it can cause a cat a lot of misery. And as this group is full of animal lovers, it angers them to hear people trying to justify an unecessary procedure that makes innocent animals suffer....that's only natural. Ann |
"Brandy Alexandre" wrote in message
... Good luck with that statement. This group is nothing but extremists who like to flame away people who are not of like mind or who they cannot convert. I'm not an extremist, but the fact is, most countries have banned declawing for a reason, and many vets have expressed their professional opinion that declawing is harmful to a cat, that it can cause a lot of pain, and often psychological and/or behavior problems. I don't see why they would do this if it was just a matter of personal preference. Considering how rarely governments consider animal rights, the fact that so many have considered declawing harmful enough to ban it sends a very strong message, and there are certainly a number of fact-laden articles all over the 'Net (many by vets) supporting that viewpoint. There is also a great deal of anecdotal evidence regarding the aforementioned psychological and behavior problems, much of it from shelters dealing with the fallout of this proceedure. That is the reason it's very difficult for most people here not to get angry, extreme or resort to name calling when they hear of people trying to justify the proceedure; it is unneccessary, and there is a lot of evidence which supports the idea that it can cause a cat a lot of misery. And as this group is full of animal lovers, it angers them to hear people trying to justify an unecessary procedure that makes innocent animals suffer....that's only natural. Ann |
"Brandy Alexandre" wrote:
Gary wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: What's the difference between "name calling" and accurate descriptive phrases? You mean like close-minded, self-absorbed, "everyone should think the way I do" purists like you? That's dead on, but saying so would never get you to even consider anything I say seriusly. I'm just saying you do the issue much more harm than good with you PERSONAL OPINION of someone thrown in. -- Brandy Alexandre® http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? That's what usenet is about - PERSONAL OPINION. Deal with it. Gary -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- |
"Brandy Alexandre" wrote:
Gary wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: What's the difference between "name calling" and accurate descriptive phrases? You mean like close-minded, self-absorbed, "everyone should think the way I do" purists like you? That's dead on, but saying so would never get you to even consider anything I say seriusly. I'm just saying you do the issue much more harm than good with you PERSONAL OPINION of someone thrown in. -- Brandy Alexandre® http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? That's what usenet is about - PERSONAL OPINION. Deal with it. Gary -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- |
There are regional and cultural issues surrounding everything we do and
one country will be in line with it while another will not. Glom on to whatever fits within your ideal, but don't discount everything that does not as "just wrong." Because by and large it isn't. It's just an opinion. How many industrialized nations are there in the world anyway? Twenty of them have banned declawing. Half of them admit there's still an underground for it and the results have been similar to the banning of abortion--disfigurement and death. If that's what you want to happen to cats, fine. I think you're cruel. But if the cat died "as a result of a countries laws", wouldn't that then mean the person who took the cat to be declawed in the first place was indeed the "cruel" one? Mike |
There are regional and cultural issues surrounding everything we do and
one country will be in line with it while another will not. Glom on to whatever fits within your ideal, but don't discount everything that does not as "just wrong." Because by and large it isn't. It's just an opinion. How many industrialized nations are there in the world anyway? Twenty of them have banned declawing. Half of them admit there's still an underground for it and the results have been similar to the banning of abortion--disfigurement and death. If that's what you want to happen to cats, fine. I think you're cruel. But if the cat died "as a result of a countries laws", wouldn't that then mean the person who took the cat to be declawed in the first place was indeed the "cruel" one? Mike |
"Gary" wrote in message ...
"Brandy Alexandre" wrote: I think you're cruel. Now who's name calling, two-faced hypocrite?!? From a different angle he brings up a somewhat good point, relative to the vast majority of the world where cats are eaten as often as beef, de-clawing isn't that cruel. That just means the rest of the world is a bit messed up. Mutilating an animal for personal gain is wrong in my opinion. Why not take a needle and sow up its ass if it craps outside the litter tray? Mike |
"Gary" wrote in message ...
"Brandy Alexandre" wrote: I think you're cruel. Now who's name calling, two-faced hypocrite?!? From a different angle he brings up a somewhat good point, relative to the vast majority of the world where cats are eaten as often as beef, de-clawing isn't that cruel. That just means the rest of the world is a bit messed up. Mutilating an animal for personal gain is wrong in my opinion. Why not take a needle and sow up its ass if it craps outside the litter tray? Mike |
From a different angle he brings up a somewhat good point, relative to the
vast majority of the world where cats are eaten as often as beef, de-clawing isn't that cruel. That just means the rest of the world is a bit messed up. Mutilating an animal for personal gain is wrong in my opinion. Why not take a needle and sow up its ass if it craps outside the litter tray? Excuse the poor English but its getting late :) Mike |
From a different angle he brings up a somewhat good point, relative to the
vast majority of the world where cats are eaten as often as beef, de-clawing isn't that cruel. That just means the rest of the world is a bit messed up. Mutilating an animal for personal gain is wrong in my opinion. Why not take a needle and sow up its ass if it craps outside the litter tray? Excuse the poor English but its getting late :) Mike |
"Brandy Alexandre" wrote in message
... bewtifulfreak wrote in There are regional and cultural issues surrounding everything we do and one country will be in line with it while another will not. Glom on to whatever fits within your ideal, but don't discount everything that does not as "just wrong." Because by and large it isn't. It's just an opinion. As I said, there is anecdotal evidence and professional information indicating that it's not just opinion that declawing can and often does harm cats: it's fact. That's not hystrionic and overzelous, that's just plain fact. I support you in living your life in whatever way you see fit that doesn't harm another being: I don't care about your religious preference, your sexual preference, what you wear, what you eat, if you smoke (as long as you do so considerately), or anything else. I don't care if you belive in God or whether the moon is made of green cheese. *That's* all a matter of opinion and personal preference, or, in the case of believing the moon is made of green cheese, harmless ignorance. Causing injury to another being - particularly for your own convenience, but for any reason whatsoever - is certainly *not* harmless, and thus, not merely a matter of personal preference, unless you are the type of person who believes that someone should be allowed to exercise their preference for things such as wife beating. How many industrialized nations are there in the world anyway? Twenty of them have banned declawing. Twenty different nations agreeing on the same thing seems like far more than "opinion" to me, and certainly argues against it being a matter of regional and cultural preference, unless we are to believe all twenty of those nations have the same regional and cultural bias, which seems highly unlikely. The only two countries that haven't banned it are much more likely to share a cultural and regional bias, that most likely being the bias of putting the love of money above all else. Half of them admit there's still an underground for it and the results have been similar to the banning of abortion--disfigurement and death. If that's what you want to happen to cats, fine. I think you're cruel. I don't want that to happen. I don't want murder to happen either, but it does. But does that mean we should make it legal? I'm not comparing declawing to murder, but the fact that something happens illegally doesn't justify making it legal. And for someone who encourages people to discuss things rationally in order to make their opinions more accesible, accusing me of wanting cats to suffer and calling me cruel because I'm against declawing is not only irrational, but hypocritical as well. Ann -- For more information on the anti-declawing issue I would recommend The Declawing Information Site: http://stopdeclaw.com |
"Brandy Alexandre" wrote in message
... bewtifulfreak wrote in There are regional and cultural issues surrounding everything we do and one country will be in line with it while another will not. Glom on to whatever fits within your ideal, but don't discount everything that does not as "just wrong." Because by and large it isn't. It's just an opinion. As I said, there is anecdotal evidence and professional information indicating that it's not just opinion that declawing can and often does harm cats: it's fact. That's not hystrionic and overzelous, that's just plain fact. I support you in living your life in whatever way you see fit that doesn't harm another being: I don't care about your religious preference, your sexual preference, what you wear, what you eat, if you smoke (as long as you do so considerately), or anything else. I don't care if you belive in God or whether the moon is made of green cheese. *That's* all a matter of opinion and personal preference, or, in the case of believing the moon is made of green cheese, harmless ignorance. Causing injury to another being - particularly for your own convenience, but for any reason whatsoever - is certainly *not* harmless, and thus, not merely a matter of personal preference, unless you are the type of person who believes that someone should be allowed to exercise their preference for things such as wife beating. How many industrialized nations are there in the world anyway? Twenty of them have banned declawing. Twenty different nations agreeing on the same thing seems like far more than "opinion" to me, and certainly argues against it being a matter of regional and cultural preference, unless we are to believe all twenty of those nations have the same regional and cultural bias, which seems highly unlikely. The only two countries that haven't banned it are much more likely to share a cultural and regional bias, that most likely being the bias of putting the love of money above all else. Half of them admit there's still an underground for it and the results have been similar to the banning of abortion--disfigurement and death. If that's what you want to happen to cats, fine. I think you're cruel. I don't want that to happen. I don't want murder to happen either, but it does. But does that mean we should make it legal? I'm not comparing declawing to murder, but the fact that something happens illegally doesn't justify making it legal. And for someone who encourages people to discuss things rationally in order to make their opinions more accesible, accusing me of wanting cats to suffer and calling me cruel because I'm against declawing is not only irrational, but hypocritical as well. Ann -- For more information on the anti-declawing issue I would recommend The Declawing Information Site: http://stopdeclaw.com |
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"BrandyÂ*Alexandre" Â* wrote in
: I'm not an extremist, but the fact is, most countries have banned declawing for a reason, and many vets have expressed their professional opinion that declawing is harmful to a cat, that it can cause a lot of pain, and often psychological and/or behavior problems. I don't see why they would do this if it was just a matter of personal preference. Considering how rarely governments consider animal rights, the fact that so many have considered declawing harmful enough to ban it sends a very strong message, and there are certainly a number of fact-laden articles all over the 'Net (many by vets) supporting that viewpoint. There is also a great deal of anecdotal evidence regarding the aforementioned psychological and behavior problems, much of it from shelters dealing with the fallout of this proceedure. That is the reason it's very difficult for most people here not to get angry, extreme or resort to name calling when they hear of people trying to justify the proceedure; it is unneccessary, and there is a lot of evidence which supports the idea that it can cause a cat a lot of misery. And as this group is full of animal lovers, it angers them to hear people trying to justify an unecessary procedure that makes innocent animals suffer....that's only natural. Ann Some European countries banned the use of nickel in their coins. Did you just compare cats with nickels? Uh huh. This speaks volumns about you. -- Cheryl "If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough." -Mario Andretti. |
"BrandyÂ*Alexandre" Â* wrote in
: I'm not an extremist, but the fact is, most countries have banned declawing for a reason, and many vets have expressed their professional opinion that declawing is harmful to a cat, that it can cause a lot of pain, and often psychological and/or behavior problems. I don't see why they would do this if it was just a matter of personal preference. Considering how rarely governments consider animal rights, the fact that so many have considered declawing harmful enough to ban it sends a very strong message, and there are certainly a number of fact-laden articles all over the 'Net (many by vets) supporting that viewpoint. There is also a great deal of anecdotal evidence regarding the aforementioned psychological and behavior problems, much of it from shelters dealing with the fallout of this proceedure. That is the reason it's very difficult for most people here not to get angry, extreme or resort to name calling when they hear of people trying to justify the proceedure; it is unneccessary, and there is a lot of evidence which supports the idea that it can cause a cat a lot of misery. And as this group is full of animal lovers, it angers them to hear people trying to justify an unecessary procedure that makes innocent animals suffer....that's only natural. Ann Some European countries banned the use of nickel in their coins. Did you just compare cats with nickels? Uh huh. This speaks volumns about you. -- Cheryl "If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough." -Mario Andretti. |
bewtifulfreak wrote:
"Brandy Alexandre" wrote in message ... Good luck with that statement. This group is nothing but extremists who like to flame away people who are not of like mind or who they cannot convert. I'm not an extremist, but the fact is, most countries have banned declawing for a reason, Extremist: One is winning an argument with a declawer. I'm not an extremist either. In fact, I detest protests and agenda-driven bull**** activism. But this is a simple case of people choosing to maim their pets for their own convenience. There is no gray area here. It's just wrong. THAT is why people like Brandy like to resort to the E word. It creates a fantasy that maybe they're not horrible people. But they are. |
bewtifulfreak wrote:
"Brandy Alexandre" wrote in message ... Good luck with that statement. This group is nothing but extremists who like to flame away people who are not of like mind or who they cannot convert. I'm not an extremist, but the fact is, most countries have banned declawing for a reason, Extremist: One is winning an argument with a declawer. I'm not an extremist either. In fact, I detest protests and agenda-driven bull**** activism. But this is a simple case of people choosing to maim their pets for their own convenience. There is no gray area here. It's just wrong. THAT is why people like Brandy like to resort to the E word. It creates a fantasy that maybe they're not horrible people. But they are. |
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Gary wrote in :
I have trained mine to sharpen their claws on rubber flip-flops ("shower shoes"), and I buy a sacrificial pair every year just for them. I actually got down and showed them how to use them (repeatedly); it didn't take long till they had the idea. Figure it out! (My cats did) LOL I remember you. To the unbelievers, cats can be trained. I have a new feral cat and she is already learning from the others where to scratch and I haven't even had to show her. Her first months were in the wild. This pic with her near a very scratched up post is part of what teaches her. The others had to learn before her so she has an advantage. My furniture is intact. My skin, well, we like to play rough sometimes. http://community.webshots.com/photo/75552731/85147301OptGat -- Cheryl "If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough." -Mario Andretti. |
Gary wrote in :
I have trained mine to sharpen their claws on rubber flip-flops ("shower shoes"), and I buy a sacrificial pair every year just for them. I actually got down and showed them how to use them (repeatedly); it didn't take long till they had the idea. Figure it out! (My cats did) LOL I remember you. To the unbelievers, cats can be trained. I have a new feral cat and she is already learning from the others where to scratch and I haven't even had to show her. Her first months were in the wild. This pic with her near a very scratched up post is part of what teaches her. The others had to learn before her so she has an advantage. My furniture is intact. My skin, well, we like to play rough sometimes. http://community.webshots.com/photo/75552731/85147301OptGat -- Cheryl "If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough." -Mario Andretti. |
barbaric is prince william hunting for deer with a bow and arrow
"Cheryl" wrote in message ... (D. Stephen Heersink) wrote in : I've always declawed my cats because they are always indoors and if I don't, they will claw the furniture and me. Since I have expensive furniture and don't want scars on me, I've found the declawing a cat is the best way to accomplish our mutual goals. You appear to think forums such as this are only read by people in N America. That is not the case and everywhere else declawing is considered barbaric. Get a clue. Scars on you; what a wuss. Furniture is more important? Get a fish. ****head. -- Cheryl "If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough." -Mario Andretti. --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.505 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 30/07/2003 |
barbaric is prince william hunting for deer with a bow and arrow
"Cheryl" wrote in message ... (D. Stephen Heersink) wrote in : I've always declawed my cats because they are always indoors and if I don't, they will claw the furniture and me. Since I have expensive furniture and don't want scars on me, I've found the declawing a cat is the best way to accomplish our mutual goals. You appear to think forums such as this are only read by people in N America. That is not the case and everywhere else declawing is considered barbaric. Get a clue. Scars on you; what a wuss. Furniture is more important? Get a fish. ****head. -- Cheryl "If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough." -Mario Andretti. --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.505 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 30/07/2003 |
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