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Dry Food Good For Teeth and Gum Health?
I feel like my cat should get some dry food
for the benefit of teeth and gums. Can I get an Amen? |
I feel like my cat should get some dry
food for the benefit of teeth and gums. Can I get an Amen? No, you may not. I will, however, give you this: http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.ph... cleantheteeth Megan "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray |
"biggerbadderbarry" wrote in message oups.com... I feel like my cat should get some dry food for the benefit of teeth and gums. Can I get an Amen? http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutr...i ch_is_reall |
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 01:56:52 -0400, "Phil P."
wrote: "biggerbadderbarry" wrote in message roups.com... I feel like my cat should get some dry food for the benefit of teeth and gums. Can I get an Amen? http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutr...i ch_is_reall Phil please spare me from rereading that piece, I read through it and never found a conclusion as to what is best, the title makes you assume that a conclusion will be forthcoming. Brad LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL-PRESERVED BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING... " HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!" |
"Brad" wrote in message ... On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 01:56:52 -0400, "Phil P." wrote: "biggerbadderbarry" wrote in message roups.com... I feel like my cat should get some dry food for the benefit of teeth and gums. Can I get an Amen? http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutr...ned_Food.__Whi ch_is_reall Phil please spare me from rereading that piece, I read through it and never found a conclusion as to what is best, the title makes you assume that a conclusion will be forthcoming. The conclusion is obvious. The *slight* dental benefit of dry food does not offset the risks. Look in your cat's mouth. Do you see any first premolars or lower (inferior) first or second premolars? You don't, do you? Do you know why? |
Brad wrote: Phil please spare me from rereading that piece, I read through it and never found a conclusion as to what is best, the title makes you assume that a conclusion will be forthcoming. Brad Laying aside tooth and gum stimulation: In humans, foods with higher water content is better (fruits and veggies). So of course I would be interested in the best food I can feed fluffy, OTH - There's nothing I love better than to rip into a big red apple - this also makes my teeth happy. Do they make cat apples |
biggerbadderbarry wrote:
Do they make cat apples Yep, but they're called chicken gizzards. Provide great exercise for the cat's jaw and teeth. Lauren |
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 05:09:28 -0400, "Phil P."
wrote: The conclusion is obvious. The *slight* dental benefit of dry food does not offset the risks. Look in your cat's mouth. Do you see any first premolars or lower (inferior) first or second premolars? You don't, do you? Do you know why? I'm not good with these brain teasers I don't have enough brains......The breeder I bought from......two vets who I interviewed fo select one for my kitten and two personal friends all said that dry food has always been fine with no health problems relating to food.......my breeder has never fed anything other than dry after a few weeks and also has never had a problem......nothing I have found has been decisive to say either way one is better than the other but testimonials from people I actually know have to weigh heavily on my decision. Brad LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL-PRESERVED BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING... " HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!" |
Brad wrote: I'm not good with these brain teasers I don't have enough brains......The breeder I bought from......two vets who I interviewed fo select one for my kitten and two personal friends all said that dry food has always been fine with no health problems relating to food.......my breeder has never fed anything other than dry after a few weeks and also has never had a problem......nothing I have found has been decisive to say either way one is better than the other but testimonials from people I actually know have to weigh heavily on my decision. Look! The lady done said, get a bucket of chicken innards (Gizzards) and let the cat chew on them; you know, stash some around the house for later. What the cat don't chew on, I use for catfish bait! |
Quote:
Purrs, Fritti and his gang. |
On 25 Jun 2005 12:09:15 -0700, "biggerbadderbarry"
wrote: Brad wrote: I'm not good with these brain teasers I don't have enough brains......The breeder I bought from......two vets who I interviewed fo select one for my kitten and two personal friends all said that dry food has always been fine with no health problems relating to food.......my breeder has never fed anything other than dry after a few weeks and also has never had a problem......nothing I have found has been decisive to say either way one is better than the other but testimonials from people I actually know have to weigh heavily on my decision. Look! The lady done said, get a bucket of chicken innards (Gizzards) and let the cat chew on them; you know, stash some around the house for later. What the cat don't chew on, I use for catfish bait! How do you get used to the smell though.......I tried shoving most of em under the couch but for some reason they still smell.....I thought there was some saying about "outta sight outta smell" Brad LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL-PRESERVED BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING... " HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!" |
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 09:12:07 +0000, Fritti
wrote: biggerbadderbarry Wrote: I feel like my cat should get some dry food for the benefit of teeth and gums. Can I get an Amen? You've got mine. Dryfood is way better than soft canned food. It prevents placque. As an example: My dearest darling Venus and her sister Roberta were cats I got from someone else. She fed both cats wet canned food three meals a day. When I took the cats, they had placque on their teeth thicker than their teeth! They both needed an intense dental clean-up under full anasthetic. All twelve of my cats right now get nothing but dry food, and it sure benefits their teeth. The only soft things they get to eat is a bit of liverwurst or cheese every now and then. When they got their teeth cleaned, Venus almost didn't come out of the anasthetic afterwards, and I sure don't ever want to go through such a horrifyingly scaring experience again. So... feed your cat dryfood. Amen. Purrs, Fritti and his gang. You know now heres another case which is hard to argue with yet I have been slammed so many times for feeding dry food.......like I'm to lazy to give em the wet food that I'm doing what I want without caring about the cats but I've heard more testimonials like yours plus friends and associates who swear by dry food.....as far as overall health goes this arguement doesn't appear when talking about dogs only about cats.....go figure thanks for posting... Brad LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL-PRESERVED BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING... " HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!" |
"Brad" wrote in message ... On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 05:09:28 -0400, "Phil P." wrote: The conclusion is obvious. The *slight* dental benefit of dry food does not offset the risks. Look in your cat's mouth. Do you see any first premolars or lower (inferior) first or second premolars? You don't, do you? Do you know why? nothing I have found has been decisive to say either way one is better than the other I guess you can't say that anymo J Am Vet Med Assoc 1997 Jan 1;210(1):46-50 "Results suggest that idiopathic cystitis occurs commonly in cats with stranguria, hematuria, pollakiuria, or inappropriate elimination and is associated with consumption of dry foods." |
"Fritti" wrote in message ... biggerbadderbarry Wrote: I feel like my cat should get some dry food for the benefit of teeth and gums. Can I get an Amen? You've got mine. Dryfood is way better than soft canned food. That's far from the truth. There are only *three* dry diets that have a slight effect on the teeth- but the dental benefits don't offset the systemic risks. "Results suggest that idiopathic cystitis occurs commonly in cats with stranguria, hematuria, pollakiuria, or inappropriate elimination and is associated with consumption of dry foods." (J Am Vet Med Assoc 1997 Jan 1;210(1):46-50). |
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:31:01 -0400, "Phil P."
wrote: "Fritti" wrote in message ... biggerbadderbarry Wrote: I feel like my cat should get some dry food for the benefit of teeth and gums. Can I get an Amen? You've got mine. Dryfood is way better than soft canned food. That's far from the truth. There are only *three* dry diets that have a slight effect on the teeth- but the dental benefits don't offset the systemic risks. "Results suggest that idiopathic cystitis occurs commonly in cats with stranguria, hematuria, pollakiuria, or inappropriate elimination and is associated with consumption of dry foods." (J Am Vet Med Assoc 1997 Jan 1;210(1):46-50). I just wonder sometimes if the whole thing isn't blown way out of proportion, in a case like this when both sides can come up with good arguments I think people should feed what they feel like is the best at least if they have done some research to back it up and let the next guy or gal feed their cats whatever they want. It seems people have this want to shove their ideas down the other persons throat, I don't have any quarrels with someone that wants to feed the opposite as I do its all about a little respect for each other. Brad LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL-PRESERVED BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING... " HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!" |
"Brad" wrote in message ... On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:31:01 -0400, "Phil P." wrote: "Fritti" wrote in message ... biggerbadderbarry Wrote: I feel like my cat should get some dry food for the benefit of teeth and gums. Can I get an Amen? You've got mine. Dryfood is way better than soft canned food. That's far from the truth. There are only *three* dry diets that have a slight effect on the teeth- but the dental benefits don't offset the systemic risks. "Results suggest that idiopathic cystitis occurs commonly in cats with stranguria, hematuria, pollakiuria, or inappropriate elimination and is associated with consumption of dry foods." (J Am Vet Med Assoc 1997 Jan 1;210(1):46-50). I just wonder sometimes if the whole thing isn't blown way out of proportion, in a case like this when both sides can come up with good arguments The problem is the dry food camp *can't* come up with a good argument other than economy and convenience- neither of which benefit the cat. The minimal dental benefits of dry food don't offset the risks to the rest of the body. |
"Phil P." wrote in message ... "Brad" wrote in message ... On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:31:01 -0400, "Phil P." wrote: "Fritti" wrote in message ... biggerbadderbarry Wrote: I feel like my cat should get some dry food for the benefit of teeth and gums. Can I get an Amen? You've got mine. Dryfood is way better than soft canned food. That's far from the truth. There are only *three* dry diets that have a slight effect on the teeth- but the dental benefits don't offset the systemic risks. "Results suggest that idiopathic cystitis occurs commonly in cats with stranguria, hematuria, pollakiuria, or inappropriate elimination and is associated with consumption of dry foods." (J Am Vet Med Assoc 1997 Jan 1;210(1):46-50). I just wonder sometimes if the whole thing isn't blown way out of proportion, in a case like this when both sides can come up with good arguments The problem is the dry food camp *can't* come up with a good argument other than economy and convenience- neither of which benefit the cat. The minimal dental benefits of dry food don't offset the risks to the rest of the body. What sold me was the huge difference I saw in my cats coats, eyes, and behavior after adding canned food, and Buddha's weight loss after putting her on canned only. I saw results in 2 weeks. |
Brad wrote:
Phil PThat's far from the truth. There are only *three* dry diets that have a slight effect on the teeth- but the dental benefits don't offset the systemic risks. "Results suggest that idiopathic cystitis occurs commonly in cats with stranguria, hematuria, pollakiuria, or inappropriate elimination and is associated with consumption of dry foods." (J Am Vet Med Assoc 1997 Jan 1;210(1):46-50). I just wonder sometimes if the whole thing isn't blown way out of proportion, in a case like this when both sides can come up with good arguments I think people should feed what they feel like is the best at least if they have done some research to back it up and let the next guy or gal feed their cats whatever they want. It seems people have this want to shove their ideas down the other persons throat, I don't have any quarrels with someone that wants to feed the opposite as I do its all about a little respect for each other. Brad, I don't think it's a question of ideas, but rather what is in the best interest of the cat, not the convenience of the human. It has been proven that a canned diet has more benefits to the cat's overall health than a dry kibble diet, which when you really think about it is not species appropriate. I admit I fed cats I've had in the past a kibble diet. It was very convenient to rip open the bag and pour it into a bowl. But I've since done a lot of research into it and I feel the benefits of a canned diet (or in my case a homemade diet) are more beneficial for the cat. It's not that much harder to get out a can opener :) Of course I do realize some cats are just kibble junkies and switching them can be nearly impossible. Lauren |
Mary wrote:
"Phil P." wrote in message ... "Brad" wrote in message ... On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:31:01 -0400, "Phil P." wrote: "Fritti" wrote in message ... biggerbadderbarry Wrote: I feel like my cat should get some dry food for the benefit of teeth and gums. Can I get an Amen? You've got mine. Dryfood is way better than soft canned food. That's far from the truth. There are only *three* dry diets that have a slight effect on the teeth- but the dental benefits don't offset the systemic risks. "Results suggest that idiopathic cystitis occurs commonly in cats with stranguria, hematuria, pollakiuria, or inappropriate elimination and is associated with consumption of dry foods." (J Am Vet Med Assoc 1997 Jan 1;210(1):46-50). I just wonder sometimes if the whole thing isn't blown way out of proportion, in a case like this when both sides can come up with good arguments The problem is the dry food camp *can't* come up with a good argument other than economy and convenience- neither of which benefit the cat. The minimal dental benefits of dry food don't offset the risks to the rest of the body. What sold me was the huge difference I saw in my cats coats, eyes, and behavior after adding canned food, and Buddha's weight loss after putting her on canned only. I saw results in 2 weeks. Sounds like "Atkins for Cats" diet. LOL |
My 2 cats have both and they're just fine and dandy.
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VeggieBurger wrote: My 2 cats have both and they're just fine and dandy. When I was a kid working at Wendy's after school One lady would order a single all the way, hold the single. (A veggie burger) I always thought it should cost less but it did not. |
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 06:41:49 -0400, "Phil P."
wrote: The problem is the dry food camp *can't* come up with a good argument other than economy and convenience- neither of which benefit the cat. The minimal dental benefits of dry food don't offset the risks to the rest of the body. No Phil the problem is there you are trying to shove your ideas down my throat.....I am clear on your feelings like most everyone here is I don't know why you have to stay behind the pulpit. How about this testimonials from people who have fed dry food only and have had happy and healthy cats always.......you can't come up with an arguement to top that one...... I'm sick and tired of your camp constantly harping on convenience is that supposed to shame us into using the slop food kinda funny I make a plea to lets just get along and the first post I read is you with your same ole ****......how about this too.....dry food has minimal benefits for the teeth and gums slop food gives ZERO benefits....... How in the hell did cats get along before you started brushing their teeth and singing the praises of wet food? Brad Lifes journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting......" HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!" |
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 12:20:39 -0400, "Mary" wrote:
"Phil P." wrote in message ... "Brad" wrote in message ... On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:31:01 -0400, "Phil P." wrote: "Fritti" wrote in message ... biggerbadderbarry Wrote: I feel like my cat should get some dry food for the benefit of teeth and gums. Can I get an Amen? You've got mine. Dryfood is way better than soft canned food. That's far from the truth. There are only *three* dry diets that have a slight effect on the teeth- but the dental benefits don't offset the systemic risks. "Results suggest that idiopathic cystitis occurs commonly in cats with stranguria, hematuria, pollakiuria, or inappropriate elimination and is associated with consumption of dry foods." (J Am Vet Med Assoc 1997 Jan 1;210(1):46-50). I just wonder sometimes if the whole thing isn't blown way out of proportion, in a case like this when both sides can come up with good arguments The problem is the dry food camp *can't* come up with a good argument other than economy and convenience- neither of which benefit the cat. The minimal dental benefits of dry food don't offset the risks to the rest of the body. What sold me was the huge difference I saw in my cats coats, eyes, and behavior after adding canned food, and Buddha's weight loss after putting her on canned only. I saw results in 2 weeks. Don't get your undies in a bundle here but are you blaming the dry food for Buddha's weight problems.....does he fill the bowls himself.....?? I have heard people mention the coat that is one thing I would like to look into further with Touhey being a kitten its hard to tell about his coat with that kitten hair.....looks like me when I get up in the morning...... Brad Lifes journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting......." HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!" |
On 1 Jul 2005 11:31:46 -0700, "PawsForThought"
wrote: Brad, I don't think it's a question of ideas, but rather what is in the best interest of the cat, not the convenience of the human. It has been proven that a canned diet has more benefits to the cat's overall health than a dry kibble diet, which when you really think about it is not species appropriate. I admit I fed cats I've had in the past a kibble diet. It was very convenient to rip open the bag and pour it into a bowl. But I've since done a lot of research into it and I feel the benefits of a canned diet (or in my case a homemade diet) are more beneficial for the cat. It's not that much harder to get out a can opener :) Of course I do realize some cats are just kibble junkies and switching them can be nearly impossible. Lauren Exactly how a post should be written you made it clear what you feel is best without trying to make the other "camp" look like dunces.....I hate to bring this up because I will get clipped again but my breeder has always only fed dry food and he like alot of the others have ribbons and best in shows and all the rest , can you do that with an unhealthy cat with a bad coat? Onec again I hate the convenience mentions always.......if I thought for an instant that wet was better for my cat I would throw the brand new bag of Iams away and go for the canned but unfortuneately many of the pro canned food people have been name callers and worse which makes it even a little bit harder to take their advice. So with me it honestly isn't convenience. I know my kitten is only 16 weeks old but he is so happy and healthy takes a lot of cat naps but in an instant when I get up hes hiding around the corner ready to pounce on me and play as long as I want matter of fact he is into bring his toys back to me now which is great he will hop in my lap with the toy and push it over the side....and then look at me until I pick it up......then push it over the side again.....and coming when I call him......I always had a soft spot for cats but never owned one but am overjoyed with this guy........ Lauren why do you think this arguement exist with Dogs? Obviously a different constitution but you would think the basic idea of canned vs dry would be there for dogs also, I have never heard that and I have owned five dogs over the years........ Brad Lifes journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting......." HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!" |
"Brad" wrote in message ... On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 06:41:49 -0400, "Phil P." wrote: The problem is the dry food camp *can't* come up with a good argument other than economy and convenience- neither of which benefit the cat. The minimal dental benefits of dry food don't offset the risks to the rest of the body. No Phil the problem is there you are trying to shove your ideas down my throat..... Actually, I'm trying to educate you about feline nutrition because you're obviously misinformed. No one is forcing you to read my posts. If you don't like what I have to say don't read my posts or make refutable statements about dry food. How about this testimonials from people who have fed dry food only and have had happy and healthy cats always.......you can't come up with an arguement to top that one...... Sure I can. Almost every cat that I know of- including many cats of people *in this group*- that had a urinary tract obstruction, interstitial cystitis, and diabetes all ate primarily dry food. These conditions resolved after the cats were switched over to canned food. In fact, after switching many diabetic cats over to canned food *alone*, they no longer needed insulin. There are controlled, clinical studies that link dry food with urinary tract obstructions and interstitial cystitis. Here's one: "Results suggest that idiopathic cystitis occurs commonly in cats with stranguria, hematuria, pollakiuria, or inappropriate elimination and is associated with consumption of dry foods." (J Am Vet Med Assoc 1997 Jan 1;210(1):46-50). The bottom line is its much easier to deal with oral hygiene than interstitial cystitis, urinary tract obstructions, diabetes, and possibly CRF. Here's how: http://maxshouse.com/tooth_brushing.htm |
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 01:49:24 -0400, "Phil P."
wrote: "Results suggest that idiopathic cystitis occurs commonly in cats with stranguria, hematuria, pollakiuria, or inappropriate elimination and is associated with consumption of dry foods." (J Am Vet Med Assoc 1997 Jan 1;210(1):46-50). The bottom line is its much easier to deal with oral hygiene than interstitial cystitis, urinary tract obstructions, diabetes, and possibly CRF. Here's how: http://maxshouse.com/tooth_brushing.htm I have/had respect for your obvious knowledge about cats but I repeat myself in saying that some people skills wouldn't hurt you......you still never comment about people who have had great success with dry food for years and years I suppose this is just happenstance and I have never met someone who is pro canned food who hasn't taken a shot at the dry food people for being lazy or doing what is easiest for us without thinking about the cat.......attacks on peoples characters will do very little to get yourself credibility in most peoples eyes......to each his own I guess........ Brad Lifes journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting......." HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!" |
Brad wrote: I have/had respect for your obvious knowledge about cats but I repeat myself in saying that some people skills wouldn't hurt you......you still never comment about people who have had great success with dry food for years and years I suppose this is just happenstance and I have never met someone who is pro canned food who hasn't taken a shot at the dry food people for being lazy or doing what is easiest for us without thinking about the cat.......attacks on peoples characters will do very little to get yourself credibility in most peoples eyes......to each his own I guess........ Brad *pimp slaps Brad across the mouth again* You fffffaggot! You just got done running your finger through the cake and now your over here humping the house DR for doing the same. low life ass wipe |
Phil P. wrote: stuff Hello What do you think? Do cats in the wild live as long as domestic cats. I figure in the wild, they eat small animals (which are high in water content) |
Brad wrote:
On 1 Jul 2005 11:31:46 -0700, "PawsForThought" wrote: Brad, I don't think it's a question of ideas, but rather what is in the best interest of the cat, not the convenience of the human. It has been proven that a canned diet has more benefits to the cat's overall health than a dry kibble diet, which when you really think about it is not species appropriate. I admit I fed cats I've had in the past a kibble diet. It was very convenient to rip open the bag and pour it into a bowl. But I've since done a lot of research into it and I feel the benefits of a canned diet (or in my case a homemade diet) are more beneficial for the cat. It's not that much harder to get out a can opener :) Of course I do realize some cats are just kibble junkies and switching them can be nearly impossible. Lauren Exactly how a post should be written you made it clear what you feel is best without trying to make the other "camp" look like dunces.....I hate to bring this up because I will get clipped again but my breeder has always only fed dry food and he like alot of the others have ribbons and best in shows and all the rest , can you do that with an unhealthy cat with a bad coat? Well...putting my opinions aside about cat shows, think about all the cats eating kibble that are in the show. So I would imagine the judge is picking out the best looking out of the kibble fed group. I can tell you in my experience, there is definitely a coat difference in a cat on a better diet. I imagine too the judges are looking at other things, like how the cat conforms to the breed standard (shape of body, shape of face and head, coat color, etc.) Kibble fed cats can look very healthy, but can be prone to things like urinary crystals and diabetes. Onec again I hate the convenience mentions always.......if I thought for an instant that wet was better for my cat I would throw the brand new bag of Iams away and go for the canned but unfortuneately many of the pro canned food people have been name callers and worse which makes it even a little bit harder to take their advice. So with me it honestly isn't convenience. I believe you, Brad. But if you do some reading, you will see how a canned diet can benefit your kitten. Right now he's young and these health problems such as urinary crystals sometimes don't show up until later in the cat's life. I would recommend reading this article, written by a vet: http://www.catinfo.org/zorans_article.pdf I know my kitten is only 16 weeks old but he is so happy and healthy takes a lot of cat naps but in an instant when I get up hes hiding around the corner ready to pounce on me and play as long as I want matter of fact he is into bring his toys back to me now which is great he will hop in my lap with the toy and push it over the side....and then look at me until I pick it up......then push it over the side again.....and coming when I call him......I always had a soft spot for cats but never owned one but am overjoyed with this guy........ All it takes is one to get hooked, eh? :) As I said earlier, health problems from a purely dry food diet may not show up until later in the cat's life. Also, if you ever decide to feed a canned diet, now is the time to introduce it to your kitten. What he is fed in the first 6 months of his life is most likely what he will associate as food. So getting him used to canned food now would be beneficial. You don't have to start out feeding him totally canned. Why not buy a few cans and try it out on him? Maybe feed him canned for breakfast and dry for dinner (I highly recommend against free feeding him kibble). Lauren why do you think this arguement exist with Dogs? Obviously a different constitution but you would think the basic idea of canned vs dry would be there for dogs also, I have never heard that and I have owned five dogs over the years........ But it is there, Brad :) Lauren See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe |
"Brad" wrote in message ... On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 01:49:24 -0400, "Phil P." wrote: "Results suggest that idiopathic cystitis occurs commonly in cats with stranguria, hematuria, pollakiuria, or inappropriate elimination and is associated with consumption of dry foods." (J Am Vet Med Assoc 1997 Jan 1;210(1):46-50). The bottom line is its much easier to deal with oral hygiene than interstitial cystitis, urinary tract obstructions, diabetes, and possibly CRF. Here's how: http://maxshouse.com/tooth_brushing.htm I have/had respect for your obvious knowledge about cats but I repeat myself in saying that some people skills wouldn't hurt you...... I don't mind if don't like my manners, I don't like them myself! They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winther nights. Some serious research into feline nutrition wouldn't hurt you and would greatly help your cat. you still never comment about people who have had great success with dry food for years and years ....until their cats develop urinary tract instructions, interstitial cystitis, and diabetes. Then they switch to canned food. But unfortunately, sometimes its too late. Male cats can *die* from a urinary tract instruction, and once interstitial cystitis is unmasked it can be very difficult to control. Diabetes has already been linked to feeding cats dry food. Diabetes in cats can be very difficult and expensive to manage. Many people choose euthanasia because they can't/won't monitor their cats' blood glucose and give insulin injections. Doesn't it make more sense to lower the risk of these diseases by feeding canned food than to feed dry food simply because its easier and cheaper? I suppose this is just happenstance and I have never met someone who is pro canned food who hasn't taken a shot at the dry food people for being lazy or doing what is easiest for us without thinking about the cat Well that about sums it up! Dry food *is* more convienient and it *is* cheaper, but it also carries much higher risks to your cat's health. So, you're right! Feeding dry food is easier and less thought is given to the cat's health. ........attacks on peoples characters will do very little to get yourself credibility in most peoples eyes......to each his own I guess........ Denying the facts when they're presented to you clearly, doesn't help your credibility. |
"whitershadeofpale" wrote in message ups.com... Phil P. wrote: stuff Hello What do you think? Do cats in the wild live as long as domestic cats. I'd reason to say they don't, too many predators in the wild. btw, I found a cool ad today I thought you might like: http://www.bitoffun.com/weirds-beerhelpugly.htm ok ok so it's old, but still funny |
Trish wrote: btw, I found a cool ad today I thought you might like: Ah, very good point. I just figured rabbit, and birds are wet food. http://www.bitoffun.com/weirds-beerhelpugly.htm ok ok so it's old, but still funny Yes it is! Classic! |
Phil P. wrote: You've got mine. Dryfood is way better than soft canned food. That's far from the truth. There are only *three* dry diets that have a slight effect on the teeth- but the dental benefits don't offset the systemic risks. "Results suggest that idiopathic cystitis occurs commonly in cats with stranguria, hematuria, pollakiuria, or inappropriate elimination and is associated with consumption of dry foods." (J Am Vet Med Assoc 1997 Jan 1;210(1):46-50). Phil, The article you are referencing did not *prove* dry foods bad for cats. It was an associative review only. The ONLY thing that has been proven in favor of canned foods is the issue of greater excretion of water through the urine rather than the feces. Increased dilution of the urine will reduce the chance of urolith formation. Urolith formation affects less than 2% of cats at some point in thier life. In the rush to canned food - their is equal chance the cat will be fed a canned food of lessor quality and more risk than a good quality dry food. Moving a cat from a high quality dry food to a poor quality canned food with increased levels of calcium and phos would not likely be beneficial in the long run. Additionally increased levels of selenium and iodine are commonly found in canned foods compared to dry foods. Both of which are strongly implicated in hyperthyroid disease in cats. An assumption that any canned food is better than any dry food is erroneous and there are risks associated with anything we do. I am not opposed to canned food - I feed my own cats a canned food for the majority of their caloric intake - but I don't think it appropriate to insinuate that all dry foods are bad and all canned foods are better. Such is simply not the case by any means. The original post was relevant to tartar and palque in cats teeth. If the food has passed VOHC criteria, then it will have an affect on the reduction of plaque and tartar (assuming it was approved for both), For a list of VOHC foods see their website at VOHC.org I think. Dry food versus canned food has little impact on oral health, rather it is the calcium level in the food - regardless of type - that is the dominant factor is plaque and tartar deposition. |
PawsForThought wrote: It has been proven that a canned diet has more benefits to the cat's overall health than a dry kibble diet. Peer reviewed published citations please. Other than forcing more water to be excreted through the urine with canned food versus dry food excreting more through the feces - something that would positively affect less than 2% of cats with urolith problems - I would like to see any peer reviewed published clinical trials which prove such a claim. |
"Steve Crane" wrote in message oups.com... Phil P. wrote: You've got mine. Dryfood is way better than soft canned food. That's far from the truth. There are only *three* dry diets that have a slight effect on the teeth- but the dental benefits don't offset the systemic risks. "Results suggest that idiopathic cystitis occurs commonly in cats with stranguria, hematuria, pollakiuria, or inappropriate elimination and is associated with consumption of dry foods." (J Am Vet Med Assoc 1997 Jan 1;210(1):46-50). Phil, The article you are referencing did not *prove* dry foods bad for cats. It was an associative review only. Steve, I'd say its enough to make people err on the side of caution since there was a direct association between dry food and IC, and also because there are no benefits of feeding dry food- unless its a dental diet, and still, the benefits are minimal and don't offset the risks. The ONLY thing that has been proven in favor of canned foods is the issue of greater excretion of water through the urine rather than the feces. Increased dilution of the urine will reduce the chance of urolith formation. Urolith formation affects less than 2% of cats at some point in thier life. That 2% statistic comes from the Veterinary Medical Data Base at Purdue It only represents a portion of the cats seen at the 26 veterinary university hospitals in N.A. A very small % of owners bring their cats to vet school hospitals. Thus, its not representative of the owned feline population that develop FLUTD or urolithiasis. 2% still represents millions of cats! Any risk is unacceptable if its an unnecessary risk. Here's a quote by DiBartola and Tony Buffington from Slatter's Small Animal Surgery: "An increased risk of FUS has been reported in cats fed exclusively dry food, and the same or less risk has been observed in those fed canned and other types of foods. An analysis of these data has suggested a dose-response effect on risk with regard to feeding dry food." Here's a quote from the previous edition of Small Animal Clinical Nutrition: "Workers in Denmark found that the risk of developing FUS was seven times greater when a regular dry cat food made up most of the diet, as compared to when it was never fed. In the United States the risk of developing FUS was found to be 1.7 times greater when a regular commercial dry food made up 50-75% of the diet, 3.1 times greater when it made up 75-99%) of the diet, and 6.7 times greater when only a dry food of this type was fed." In the rush to canned food - their is equal chance the cat will be fed a canned food of lessor quality and more risk than a good quality dry food. What rush? A caretaker is just as likey to choose a low quality dry food as they are to choose a low quality canned food. Moving a cat from a high quality dry food to a poor quality canned food with increased levels of calcium and phos would not likely be beneficial in the long run. Who mentioned feeding a low quality canned food? Where did that come from? If a caretaker is feeding a high quality dry food why would they swich to a lower quality canned food? If a person is feeding a high-quality dry food, they are more likely to choose an equal or higher quality canned food. Additionally increased levels of selenium and iodine are commonly found in canned foods compared to dry foods. Both of which are strongly implicated in hyperthyroid disease in cats. Steve, many studies were done thoughout the years that looked into the possibility of dietary iodine being a causative factor in hyperthyroidism. None were ever found. If you know of one that me and our vets missed, let me know. An assumption that any canned food is better than any dry food is erroneous and there are risks associated with anything we do. I am not opposed to canned food - I feed my own cats a canned food for the majority of their caloric intake - but I don't think it appropriate to insinuate that all dry foods are bad and all canned foods are better. Such is simply not the case by any means. I disagree. A canned food is better for a cat than an *equal quality* dry food. The dry and canned foods in the study I cited were the same brand. The original post was relevant to tartar and palque in cats teeth. If the food has passed VOHC criteria, then it will have an affect on the reduction of plaque and tartar (assuming it was approved for both), For a list of VOHC foods see their website at VOHC.org I think. Dry food versus canned food has little impact on oral health, rather it is the calcium level in the food - regardless of type - that is the dominant factor is plaque and tartar deposition. On that I agree. |
On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 01:07:07 -0400, "Phil P."
wrote: I'd say its enough to make people err on the side of caution since there was a direct association between dry food and IC, and also because there are no benefits of feeding dry food- unless its a dental diet, and still, the benefits are minimal and don't offset the risks. Are there any canned diets that are specifically for seniors. Not just saying the word senior, but having supplements for seniors? How about glucosamine? I switched to Royal Canin food because of the specific foods. I wish they had canned, but they don't. I have never seen a canned food with glucosamine. And I have a hard time getting anything mixed in to the right proportions without having the cat turn it down as obviously contaminated. I would also be interested to know. Are there any studies that compare dry diets, wet diets, and mixed diets? I have seen the dry vs wet, but I feed a mixed diet, and it seems like that has the good features of both. The get the dental cleaning and the supplements I want. But they also get the canned food (except for Jay Jay, who won't eat it yet). -- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com |
Steve Crane wrote:
In the rush to canned food - their is equal chance the cat will be fed a canned food of lessor quality and more risk than a good quality dry food. Moving a cat from a high quality dry food to a poor quality canned food with increased levels of calcium and phos would not likely be beneficial in the long run. Additionally increased levels of selenium and iodine are commonly found in canned foods compared to dry foods. Both of which are strongly implicated in hyperthyroid disease in cats. Steve, who is suggesting a poor quality canned food? Did I miss something? |
Steve Crane wrote:
PawsForThought wrote: It has been proven that a canned diet has more benefits to the cat's overall health than a dry kibble diet. Peer reviewed published citations please. Other than forcing more water to be excreted through the urine with canned food versus dry food excreting more through the feces - something that would positively affect less than 2% of cats with urolith problems - I would like to see any peer reviewed published clinical trials which prove such a claim. Since I don't have access to published peer reviewed journals, I will assume Phil P. would be a better person to answer than me. He's very knowledgeable about dry verus canned diets. I can of course give you anecdotal evidence, but I'm sure that probably won't mean much to you. |
"Meghan Noecker" wrote in message
... On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 01:07:07 -0400, "Phil P." wrote: I'd say its enough to make people err on the side of caution since there was a direct association between dry food and IC, and also because there are no benefits of feeding dry food- unless its a dental diet, and still, the benefits are minimal and don't offset the risks. Are there any canned diets that are specifically for seniors. Not just saying the word senior, but having supplements for seniors? How about glucosamine? I switched to Royal Canin food because of the specific foods. I wish they had canned, but they don't. I have never seen a canned food with glucosamine. And I have a hard time getting anything mixed in to the right proportions without having the cat turn it down as obviously contaminated. Science Diet has "Senior" formula in canned. The problem is that mine won't eat it. They *LOVE* the SD "Senior Advanced Formula" dry food and still free feed on that - but the only canned food they'll eat is Fancy Feast "Tender Beef Feast" (two cans in the AM and two cans in the PM, so one can a day per cat). If my vet had not recommended canned food to get more water into Bandit, my 15-year-old, because of *slightly* elevated creatinin and BUN levels, I would not have even tried canned food since they've all done *SO* well on the SD dry all their lives (nary an illness and none even had to have dentals except Bandit who's had 2, her first at age 13). And actually, Bandit's labs haven't changed with the addition of the canned food - the only difference I see is that she doesn't get dandruff any more so she must be getting more oil into her hair. Hugs, CatNipped I would also be interested to know. Are there any studies that compare dry diets, wet diets, and mixed diets? I have seen the dry vs wet, but I feed a mixed diet, and it seems like that has the good features of both. The get the dental cleaning and the supplements I want. But they also get the canned food (except for Jay Jay, who won't eat it yet). -- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com |
CatNipped wrote: Bandit's labs haven't changed with the addition of the canned food - the only difference I see is that she doesn't get dandruff any more so she must be getting more oil into her hair. Hugs, CatNipped After much deliberation, and contemplation, I think it's safe to say that kibble is better for the teeth, and wet food is better for over all long term health. So, you take wet food, put it in a pastry bag, and make all sorts of pretty little shapes, put them on a greased cookie sheet, bake at 350 for 275 for 47 mins. This makes crunchy little meals. (or NOT) I think the REAL benefit of wet food is the water. Not that the quality is better, of course it is not. There are as many vitamins in both! 80 % of a cat body is water, so logically a higher water content food is preferred. Just like foods higher in water content are better for you and me. A cat that eats only wet food will need more intense dental care than one who eats dry only. A cat that gets a combination of wet and dry, will be somewhere in between with his dental care |
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